51. First Ever Live Q & A with the Pod Squad!

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Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things.

That was a different octave, babe.

I know, I was trying out something new.

Did you hate it?

No, I just wanted to like, it was up there.

Yeah, it was up there.

I'm up there.

Okay, so here's the deal with today.

I'm very excited because today's the day that we all get to hear more directly from our Get Untamed event and directly from our pod squad.

So

this is the.

the time that

the voicemails that you all sent came to life because in the live event, when 13,000 of you were listening to us record the podcast, watching us record the podcast, your little faces came up on the screen.

And I got to see your little perfect faces ask us the question.

So you're going to hear that today on this podcast.

You're going to hear your own fellow pod squatters ask their own.

perfect questions.

Okay.

But first, before we jump into this, I want to talk to my sweet sister about

a recent experience that she had with Adele.

And I will tell you that you weren't actually.

I don't know this story.

What is going on?

Do you not know this story?

No.

Oh, my God.

Please let there have been an actual experience with Adele, but there was not.

There was my experience with myself listening to Adele, which is

I think 99.9% of people's experiences with Adele, right?

To be fair, that's how we experience Adele, right?

Right, right.

Well, that's Adele experienced you.

Remember when she read Untamed and then she posted on her Instagrams and saying how it like split her open and made her feel alive.

And then I died 1,000 deaths of joy.

I did too.

I woke up in the, I woke up early one morning.

Because England is earlier than us.

Right.

And checked my phone.

In so many ways.

I say that I keep my phone outside of my bedroom so that I can be Zen, but I never do, not one time, not in my life.

So I woke up, opened my phone and saw 49,000 trillion gazillion notifications because Adele had posted the, not just a little bit, like the crap out of Untamed.

She said it like shook her soul and all of these things.

And it was wild because Abby and I, when we were falling in love, Adele was like one of the soundtracks to our, I mean, Abby tells you that her great love is me, but tell them who your great love is.

Okay.

Well, can I be actually honest?

Yeah.

Okay.

Adele has gotten me through.

I feel like I'm very similar in age.

So all of her, her albums, you know, 19, 21, she helped me grow and age well.

And I went through like some hardcore breakups before we met.

And she was, she was maybe better than all of my therapists combined.

I don't know.

I just have a, her voice is just something completely otherworldly.

And

I know that even the other day when she just released 30, Glennon came up to me.

She said, you don't love Adele more than you love me, right?

Oh, you don't

say that.

And I said, of course not, but like, I love her voice.

Yeah, for sure.

I don't know Adele.

Adele, I would love to meet you in person one day.

But the truth is,

her posting that, you know, she's a national treasure

pretty much worldwide.

She's an international treasure, but in her home country of England.

When they saw her tweet,

every woman in England went out and bought Untamed.

It was unbelievable.

And then all the British tabloids started writing about us, which was real wild for a week.

Holy cow.

Okay.

So I.

But babe, to be clear, I love you.

Yes.

Thank you.

Thank you.

You're the only one for me.

Thanks.

You're the one that I'm on.

I'm still on the fence.

I'm still on the fence.

But wait, tell us about your situation.

Yeah, tell us.

Okay.

Sorry.

So I was going, I was redoing my second pass of the journal and filling it out because some people might only need to do this once.

I think I'm going to have to do it semi-annually.

But the part,

um,

the feel-it-all section where you list all the songs and you have this model where it's like blank reminds me of blank and makes me feel blank.

And you're supposed to be like getting into your emotions with the songs.

It was a really cool section.

And I was listening to 30 when it came out.

And I had this crazy moment

where I was listening to Easy on Me, which is such a beautiful song for like the 1,000th time.

But I listened to it for some reason

as if it was

me singing to myself.

And I'm telling you

that

I really

think that everyone should re-listen to that song

to yourself

because

I was like a puddle.

And it, you know, the,

I just had a different reaction to every single stanza of it.

But, you know, the,

if you haven't heard the song yet, first of all, great news for you because the best is ahead for you.

But the.

The chorus is go easy on me, baby.

I was still a child, didn't get the chance to feel the world around me.

I had had no time to choose what I chose to do.

So go easy on me.

And

it was just such a release.

Like, you know, you're really, I think in some cases,

what we want the most is for our own selves to go easy on us.

And

I mean, the ain't no gold in this river that I've been washing my hands in forever.

I mean,

that,

it's like, that for me is the story.

I mean, we talked about in the last episode, the loop in your head, the stories you tell yourself.

It's like, I've just been washing myself in this forever.

And there's like, there's no gold here, you know, there's just,

and then the part, oh my God, the line.

I had good intentions and the highest hopes, but I know right now it probably doesn't even show.

It's like,

just like all of the dreams we had when we were little, all of the like stuff we swore we were going to get right and we, and we haven't exactly figured out.

And maybe we're never going to figure it out.

And maybe like we still deserve to go easy on ourselves.

Beautiful.

Freaking anyway.

I think everyone should give the gift of

that, not asking for like forgiveness or grace from other people, but maybe asking

and giving yourself grace.

Well, now Adele is my favorite person on earth because anybody who gives my sissy the gift of going easy, I'm obsessed with Adele now.

I worship Adele.

I can't believe she did that for you.

Also, I'd like to point out,

sister,

that

allowing art into your life,

carving out some time.

And I know you only did it because it was your homework.

It was my homework.

It was my journal.

Page 235.

Listen to some music and feel things.

Yeah.

And if you're, and if you're getting, if you're getting a suspicion, if you're listening and you haven't gotten the journal that it's not actually a journal, it's like an intense experiment.

They wouldn't let me call it that because

maybe people don't want to buy intense experiments,

but it's not just a journal.

That's so beautiful.

Thank you, Adele, for giving my sissy that gift.

And just the gift of your voice to the rest of us, too.

It's just, oh my goodness.

And sis, that's what I want for you more than anything in the world for you to go easy on you.

Yes.

Peace.

And everybody listening, you, sweet pod squatter, I'm talking to you.

You think I'm not, but it's you.

You're the one I'm talking to.

Go easy on you.

The younger you, the you from 20 years ago, the you from 50 years ago, the you from yesterday, every single version of yourself using what exactly you had in the moment to do the best you could with what you knew and who you were.

And then that's what you're still doing.

That's what we're doing, as Dr.

Maya Angelou said, when we know better, we do better.

But we forgive every single, and not even just forgive, embrace and love, adore, adore

every single version of ourselves that survives.

All of those little scars are part of what makes us up.

And I think that Glenn and I learned learned that so much from you in terms of the shamelessness that you take into your everyday life.

I,

the only way I would have believed it was possible is by witnessing it every single day for five straight years.

That like you can actually live a shame-free life.

And you do that.

And

you just make it possible for me to actually start doing that one day.

So thank you.

Well, I think I'm a good example of like,

If I can forgive myself, because I fucked up a lot.

I've hurt a lot of people.

I was an addict for a long time.

I sometimes have

sometimes like flashes of things come back to me of things that I did and I actually have to shake my head.

Yeah.

I shake my head until it's gone.

Like I just can't even, because when you are, we're drunk for a very long time or, you know, I was a food addict since I was 10.

So I just think it messes with your memories a lot.

But every once in a while, something will come on the periphery that I actually don't know if it's real or not, but I think it is.

And I just shake it.

Shake it off.

Shake it off means something different to me.

Thank you, Taylor Swift.

So, this is a whole episode on singing.

Full circle, full circle.

And Taylor.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I do fiercely, fiercely forgive all of the previous versions of myself who did the best that she could.

Oh, I can't wait for that day.

And I think just as important, it's the current version.

Because we can all look back and it's like before and after, oh, I was jacked up and now I'm okay.

The hardest thing for me is the current version.

Like I'm not a, I have plenty of former ones that I'm like, RIP, good, nice try.

But then even just now, like the today version of me, when you're like, it's good, I had the highest hopes and no, right now it probably doesn't even show.

Like I'm still

trying and I still have to forgive the five minutes ago me.

Yeah.

Me right now.

Or how about even better?

This is like, if you want to, if you want to get to level

level A.

No.

Highest level is forgiving the self in 20 hours.

Like, listen, I know I'm about to fuck up.

Like, I'm going to wish I had this like perfect family dinner tonight and I'm sweet, but actually, I'm going to snap at you.

I'm good at whatever.

And guess what?

I forgive myself for that

in advance.

That's amazing.

In advance.

Okay,

let's jump back into our get untamed conversation and hear and see and love on our just amazing pod squad.

We love the pod squad.

We do.

Gosh.

Go easy on you.

So

I have an idea.

I think that we should take some amazing questions from our amazing pod squad.

What do you think, sister?

Do you think that's a good idea?

I love that idea.

I love that idea.

Let's do it.

We're going to hear from, I think live.

Like we're going to actually hear from one of the people.

I think so.

I hope so.

Oh my gosh.

It's like actual, real, and happening and alive and here.

Okay.

Wow.

Oh, this is so cool.

It's been so many years since I've seen you guys actually in person.

So, Amanda, so I really admire what you said in the podcast about overwhelm and recently identifying as creative.

And what do I do with that?

And am I allowed?

And can I put the fuel and heat and oxygen all together and do all these things that I feel like, you know, are inside me and I should be doing them, right?

So my question is, like, one, are you?

Are you doing those things?

So that would be cool.

And that would be cool, Erica.

Yeah.

Like, and what's happening?

Like, are, you know, are you feeling supported in that?

And, you know, if not, what do you do about that?

And how do Glennon and Abby help you?

And how do you, how's your own family, you know, like, you know, your husband and kids and your parents and all that help you?

And like, how do you live in the both?

Right.

Like, how do you live in both places?

Oh my gosh.

Okay.

God love Erica.

It would be cool if I were doing that, Erica.

So I think that

um i regret to inform erica that the honest answer is that i have not figured that um completely out and by completely out i mean like not even close to figuring that out but

um

i do think that

i mean in the journal you have this idea of like not this

um that period of time where you're you know that the place that you are isn't it, but you don't necessarily know exactly what is it yet.

And I think that that's important to just acknowledge the value of that place too, because I think, like,

I think often we don't let ourselves even accept a truth when we don't know if we cannot, or we will not, or we don't know how we're going to act on that truth.

And so, I think the not this is a powerful place, and and

I spent a lot of time there.

So I think that

I'll just say that I don't have it figured out yet.

I'm trying really hard to figure it out.

I've added a few things to my life, even though I know intellectually probably

subtracting things from my life is the better way.

But I have started therapy, which is

very good.

And the really remarkable thing about that is I'm telling the truth to my therapist.

Oh, wow.

Uh-huh.

Yeah, that's right.

Are you serious?

Serious?

Yeah.

Like all the terrible things.

And I don't know how many years of therapy that I spent acting like it was a coffee date.

Same.

How are you?

How are they?

How are you?

I think I'm pretty good.

Yeah, let's talk about your family.

How are you doing?

How's it going?

And so, like, I was trying to kind of like

ace

therapy, like, they were grading me on my general decency as a human or something.

I'm like, trying to aid

therapy is so good.

I haven't gotten a damn thing out of it in 24 months, but I'm not sure.

But at least I'm also paying for it.

At least I'm also paying for this.

So I am not actually doing that anymore.

I am

saying all the things as if no one is judging me on my health or decency as a human.

So I'm being very indecent and it's very,

I think it's making a difference.

Also,

and I feel a little weird about saying this, but I'm just going to say it because I think that we should.

I looked at my family budget and I realized that

of the four of us in the household, one of them goes golfing when they feel like it.

One of them has signed up for 1,500 baseball tournaments.

One of them takes piano lessons and attends every slime activity within 60 miles of us.

And I just thought to myself, like, what would this budget look like if hypothetically

I also had needs or preferences?

Like, would it be a little different?

And so I

decided to make some adjustments and I did.

And so now

I have added

this girl as a line item on the budget.

And I am getting a massage once a month.

Oh,

I am.

I'm I'm doing it.

And it seems crazy, but I have to tell you that there is something so spiritually healing to me about laying there when it is actually someone else's job to make me feel better.

And there is literally nothing I can do to help anyone

at all.

And all I have to do is accept help.

And no one's trying to just make out with you.

It's all about taking.

No, yes.

Touching.

And doing it because you may have an ulterior motive.

It has nothing to do with giving.

It's just all about receiving.

And I'm telling you that it is something that there is like a shift in my body.

And I just, um,

and so I feel really, really good about it.

I also, as like an efficiency junkie, also am like, that basically counts as like a month at the gym because I know body work is important.

So it's done.

So I just think that that's really,

I think,

um, I think body stuff is good.

And I also think anything, if you're in that place, anything that requires some adjustment of people around you, whether it's time or budget or whatever, there's some value in that.

It feels different than whether you're stealing the side on the side that no one's ever going to notice.

Good job.

I just think that's good.

And to Erica, about the cost to other people, I just feel like, let's be honest, they're not, not paying for it now.

Like anytime we're not taking care of ourselves, the people around us are not, not paying for it.

They're just paying for it in a very

different way.

And so, I think, I think that the people in my life are would rather pay their current price than the alternative that they were paying.

So good.

Can I just follow up real quick?

I know we need to get on to the next question, but I just want to ask one thing because Erica also asked you how can people support you or how are or how are not?

And I just personally want to know

taking notes because I feel like I'm always like,

damn it, take better care of yourself.

And then I'm like, also, can you just like fix these six problems for me real quick?

So I can make the reservation or

whatever for more massages.

I think we should kick that up to like once a week.

I'll call that.

No, no, no.

The line item is very specific.

No, I think that I

am in a very,

in some ways, the very most privileged position where I think that people in my life really

want

what is good for me and in some ways the

most difficult position in that I um

have the hardest time

making that okay with myself

I think the challenges uh

are

not necessarily with me asking for

um adjustments, but it's like

actually being vulnerable enough to be like, I can't handle all of this.

And that being that that makes me feel like I am not,

that makes me feel not good enough.

So you are trying to get to the.

Yeah.

Well, I think it's liberating.

I think I'm really, I think the, it's liberating.

There's freedom in

embracing that it is not possible to do everything, yeah, because it's not like it's just not possible to do everything.

So, once you just step into that freedom where you're like, oh, good news, bad news, it's not possible to do everything,

then I think that that's helpful.

I have a sign on my desk that says, It's okay if you don't do everything.

That's good, that's good.

I love it, it's okay,

it is okay, okay, it is okay.

Nobody can do everything.

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I think we have to go to the next question.

Okay, Leah, where is Leah?

Leah!

Hi.

Hi, Leah.

Hi, I'm super nervous, so I apologize.

I usually avoid public speaking at all costs.

You're already doing a great job, Leah.

Really well.

Thank you.

My question is, how do you deal with the prospect and anxiety of having to be retained as the world goes back to normal and you are being forced back into the world?

As an introvert, an empath, with so much anxiety and ADD, I have personally thrived with the world being shut down.

I have had the most growth during these past two years that I have ever in my life, and I have found my untamedness.

Now that we are being told we have to go back into the world, to the office, and back to the normal, I am so anxious.

about the prospect of having to go back to how things used to be.

And I am afraid I will fail and regress back to being the tamed me that I never really liked.

Beautiful.

Leah, well, first of all, I feel I'm excited about Leah.

I feel like Leah really gets what untamed means.

I think sometimes people, because of the goddamn cheetah, you know,

thing that's taken over.

I think sometimes people think that being what our idea of untamed is, is something that's like fierce and out there and and loud and bold and all of those things, which is not at all what I meant by untamed.

What I meant by untamed was that there's a self that we were born having, that there's a self that has certain

ways of being, that has a certain, you know, neurological way, that has a certain sensitivity way, that has a way of being in the world that is right for us.

And over time, what our conditioning does is it pushes us out of that self.

So it pressures us into being different

than who we really, really are.

And so untaming is going back to that truest inner self, which for many of us, for Leah, for me, probably,

is

not

loud and fierce and out there.

And

some of our most, what we have discovered during this COVID time is some of us found our peace for the first time.

I

feel just like Leah does.

I have never been more comfortable in my own skin.

I have never been at a rhythm that makes sense to me.

For me, the constant going out in front of human beings, the constant like being out in all of these social situations, the constant having to navigate this, then that, then that, then that, then that, the constant weird vulnerability, like that was constantly jarring to me.

And so, Leah,

I understand completely what you are saying.

I have found a rhythm that makes sense to me.

I've even found like a social life that makes sense to me, which is like,

I also like you.

Did you want to come to my house for 48 minutes?

Like, come at two, leave it 2:45.

Like,

we got to be weird.

We got to be specific and weird.

We got to stop being crazily overscheduled.

We got to say no.

You know, I mean, I, there's a study done that a lot of people, a lot of women keep having children just because

babies can be a shield.

Like, no, I can't go.

I can't, because I have this baby, so I can't do all the things you want me to do.

Like,

we

actually

can say what we want to do and what we won't do.

And we can keep saying no and we can decide we didn't want to have those 27 friends anyway.

We only wanted these three friends.

Everybody has to go to work though.

How does she manage that?

Yeah.

I mean, work is a whole nother thing.

I hope I keep seeing and I keep reading.

I do hope that people are going to be brave enough to actually say what's working for them in terms of work.

I hope people are walking in and saying, you know, actually, I was more productive and

more myself from home.

Or, I mean, I, and I hope that people who run things are open to a new order of things that meets more people's needs, because the world out there often only meets the needs of like the most extroverted, bold, yes, out there.

And those aren't always the best leaders at all.

Like one of the things I'm learning, I'm thinking about so much lately is like

this default we've had of like the loudest person in the room, the most certain, the most what is the leader.

We do that even when I was a teacher, it was like, they're loud, they're the leader.

And that's never true, right?

It's often like the quiet one, the best listener, the one who's a curator of a conversation and not a dominator of conversation.

So Leah, I just, I know what you mean.

It's like.

We found ourselves during this time and we found a rhythm and a life that works for us and we don't want to lose it.

I think that what I'm hearing and what I've experienced over the last couple of years is I have gotten a sense of personal power that I've never had before.

And I think it is scary to go out in the world and test that personal power that we think we've had because we've been doing it in the confines of our own homes or in the privacy of our own selves, right?

We haven't really had as much experience to go out there and practice.

But what I know about practice is you're not going to be perfect at it at first.

And what I know about about

discipline is that if you can practice something over repetitively over and over again, you're just going to get better at it, right?

So give yourself a lot of like space to not be perfect and give yourself a lot of

love and

not needing to be perfect at it yet.

This is a life experiment.

This is yours and you get to figure it out.

So I don't know.

I just think that that anxiety of trying to make, make it perfect at first, let that go because it's not going to be.

And maybe it's a commitment of bringing our real selves wherever we are, just a little bit more.

Like Leah said those things

and made me feel

like so, yes, that.

Yeah.

And it's like in all of these spaces, like work where Leah is or wherever that we, we hide ourselves if we feel like we don't like what's going on or we don't, we think there's something wrong with us.

But if maybe we could commit to just like telling the truth a little bit more in those spaces, that's how those spaces change.

Yes.

Right.

Then other people get to say, I actually don't feel comfortable with this either.

I would prefer this.

I would, but it's going to take some brave people to bring their full selves to these spaces and tell the truth so that the order can rearrange itself a little bit.

I love that.

That's true.

It's true.

And she said she has had the most progress, had the most peace, had the, and

how beautiful is that?

Yeah, that if, if all of life had been pre-COVID and it never was a fit, right?

And then she had this time and she's like, oh, wait, it's not me.

It's all y'all.

Like, like, this whole system doesn't make any damn sense.

It's really nice to be able to step back and be like, oh, it's not me.

There, it's that this system is incompatible with me, but I am very compatible with myself.

I know how I work.

I know what I need.

And you

like lean into that.

All right, we love you, Leah.

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Stacy!

Stacy with us!

Stacy!

Hi, Stacy!

Oh, my gosh.

Thanks for being my carpool buddies every single day to work.

I feel like you guys are great passengers in my car.

You clean up after yourselves.

Not cleaning.

I'm terrible, Stacy.

I'm terrible.

But I do have a question that's become actually even more poignant to me over the past couple of weeks.

So

I was going to ask you what, when the three of you, when your spirits seem like they're sagging or really low,

what do you do to find your way through hard things?

Like for me, I just want to put my rom-coms on and listen to the same indigo girl song over and over and over again.

And then I want to scroll puppy videos until I can't even keep my eyes open, right?

And I think sometimes that's what I need.

And it's hard for me to hear and think about

and

do the hard things.

But

I think I'm wired for hard.

Like I go there all the time.

Like I do the hard things, I say the hard things, I think the hard things, I believe the hard things.

But especially lately, like what

do you do when like that, that hard is just too much?

I hear you.

I feel all of that.

So I had a major mental health crisis crisis when I was in high school.

And then again later when I got sober.

And what happens during those times is that you actually get to learn what people need.

You get to learn how to be a human.

You know, you have, if you're lucky enough to have some resources, you have a recovery group, you have maybe some therapy, you have programs, you have these things that people who don't have mental health crises don't get, which is like, here's how to human a little bit.

It's unbelievable that everybody doesn't get this sort of thing.

Like, this is what people need.

You know, we all know how to take care of our plants, but we don't know how to take care of ourselves.

Nobody's ever taught us.

I learned that my only real job, and I think sister, you would agree with both of you would probably agree with how I live my life, which is that my only real job is to just like not lose my shit completely.

Like, I don't wake up every day and be like, how do I heal the world today?

How do I do all the hard things?

Like, I am literally like, what do I have to do today to not completely lose my shit?

And then I do all of those things.

Right.

And, and for me, I have to tell you that Stacey, if there's a different way to do it than you're doing it, I don't know what it is because,

right?

Like, I, I, I feel scared for that.

She's like, I do really, really hard things and then I watch puppy videos.

I'm like, nailed it.

Nailed it.

Like, is there, like, I, I believe in Stacey's way.

Like, that's what I do.

I do, I try to Joan of Arc some shit.

Like I do.

I'm like, I've learned that there's just like a way of being that whatever is like the hard thing, whatever's the hard conversation, whatever's the icky relationship, whatever's like the hardest job of the day, like go towards that thing, joan of arc it, straight towards the battle.

Right.

And squoosh the time.

Between the knowing and the doing, when you know what you have to do,

all of the suffering is in that space between knowing what you have to do and doing the thing you have to do.

That's all.

The most you can smush it, the better your life is.

I believe that, Jay.

It's true.

Yeah.

It's like.

Smush it real good.

Smush it real good.

Yes.

Smush it, Stacey.

I can offer you that.

But, but I have to tell you, I believe in quitting.

I believe so much in the power of quitting.

Every time anybody says to me, like, how do you do this work without quitting?

I'm like, I quit every day.

Quitting is my favorite thing on earth.

Quitting is a spiritual practice.

I wake up in the morning and I look forward to quitting and I quit every single day.

She does.

I do.

I care the most amount for a lot of hours and then I care not at all.

And then I check out.

And then I'm like, whatever it is for the day, whether it's just trash TV and carbs or, or whatever it is, I just,

if I didn't stop caring, if I didn't quit every single day, I wouldn't start again.

It's just a serious rhythm to me.

It's, it's, um, and then, and then I always think about like the bigger my thinking gets, because Stacey feels like to me, somebody who might be like a, and then things are big and then things are hard and then everything sucks.

And this is how my brain works like a couple times a day.

I just,

the bigger the problem is, the smaller the solution is for me.

The bigger, the more I hate my life, the more I hate my house, the more I hate my job, the more I hate my need.

I need a noon to,

what I really usually need is a glass of water.

Right?

I usually need

a list.

This is in the journal.

I keep a list of like little things that I need to do to fix myself.

Like what Stacey's saying, when I can't do it, when I'm overwhelmed, there are things that we do when things get hard that are ways of abandoning ourselves.

Okay.

For me, that's the booze.

That's the, was the drugs.

That's the binging and purging.

That's sometimes for me, it's the shopping.

There's a lot of things.

Okay.

And then there are things that help me stay with myself.

And those are always always so simple.

They're like a glass of water, a walk outside, some fresh air, right?

They're like play with your dogs, put your phone away.

And I keep those little list of things close to me because once things have gotten too hard, it's too late.

You can't be creative when you're overwhelmed.

I also think that having

a partner in.

close proximity or somebody that knows you really well that can have like a safe word if like they are seeing you experiencing life

extra hard is helpful.

Like sometimes I'll say to Glennon,

hey, Glennon, have you had any water today?

Have you done the self-care things that usually bring you a little, a little

relief?

Yeah, when one of the kids says, so mom, have you been, how about some yoga?

That's when I know.

That's when I know.

Thank you, Stacey.

We think you're doing it all right, basically.

We think you're nailing it.

Let's hear from Aisha.

Hi, Aisha.

Hi,

how are you guys?

The internet over here is a little bit slow.

I'm really far from you guys.

It's like 8 a.m.

here right now.

Oh, my God.

Please, you're perfect.

You're doing great.

Awesome.

This is really exciting for me.

So

before,

you know, like I get carried away and talk a lot about myself, I want to throw my question at you guys.

So

a little background about myself.

I'm originally from Pakistan.

I'm, and that is where I am right now.

I'm visiting family, but I live in the U.S.

I've been there for like about 11, 12 years now.

So I identify myself as a feminist.

And I'm glad and I do relate to a lot of beliefs that you talk about and things you say.

But, you know, living in this society and culture that I'm part of.

Oh, no, Aisha.

I'm going to pull up her question for you.

I don't want to miss her question.

She says, I am a feminist and I am always calling out things I don't agree with, but no one respects that because being a feminist is not applicable to our culture and practices that I am stuck in.

How do I unbind myself from such life?

How do I bring change and help other women?

Oh, Aisha.

First of all, I hope Aisha is still on.

Well, I mean, first of all, The only appropriate answer to that question from me is I don't know.

I don't know.

We all have different cultural conditioning.

Every single one of us has a different

sort of

group of rules that we're trying to break free from.

And mine as a white woman are very different from Aisha's.

So I can tell you that,

you know, since Untamed has been out in the world, I've been thinking a lot and learning a lot

about

what feminism looks like as a white woman.

Always reading the feminism.

Right.

Always.

Always reading.

And I just think this is interesting.

There's this quote from Untamed that people circulate a whole lot.

And

it says, the braver I am, the luckier I get.

Okay.

And

that quote within the tech, the context of the story that I wrote, I still believe in, but,

but,

it also makes me a little bit cringy.

And let me explain why.

The problem with print something that goes out is you can't amend it.

Yeah, it's just,

and you shouldn't.

It's a record of where we are when we are there.

Yeah.

And then if we're still growing, if we're still paying attention, if we're still learning, if we're still open-hearted and open-minded, we shouldn't be.

in the same place we were four years ago.

That's right.

That's no, that's not even, that's not the way any of this is supposed to work.

That's right.

We are supposed to be continuously wrestling and stretching ourselves and growing.

So, anyway, one of our dear friends, her name is Dr.

Yabba Blai.

She's an unbelievable educator and human being.

And it's so interesting because the closer we've got, the more I started watching her work in the world, and she speaks very strongly and openly and beautifully about white supremacy.

The more I watched her doing her work in the world, I realized, huh,

often the braver Dr.

Blais is,

the unluckier she gets.

In terms of

the next opportunity, the next opening, the more Yaba tells the truth,

the more often

her next opportunity is limited where mine seems to open.

And so

it's just,

it is also true that the luckier I am, the braver I get.

So,

you know, what I would say to Aisha is that, you know, my job,

I used to think white feminism just meant like, I'm a feminist and I'm white, so that's white feminism.

No.

It's like a whole idea that what we're doing as white women is just trying to get higher and higher up in a system that is corrupt, just getting a few of us through, as opposed to, no, no, no, no, no, we just don't even believe in any of the system.

We're aligning ourselves with other groups of women, other groups, not even women, just all different marginalized groups to change the system completely so that more people are served, right?

So that's my job.

as a feminist who's white.

I don't have a freaking clue what Aisha's job is because I don't know what she's dealing with, right?

I mean, I know that the people that I learn from, the Black women and women of color, I would ask Aisha to look at, you know, Brittany Cunningham's work, to look at Brittany Cooper's work, to look at Dr.

Yaba Blay, Tarana Burke, Austin Channing Brown, Khalida Brohi is a Pakistani woman that we spoke with on the Together Tour who was completely amazing, outspoken feminist.

And

I think that there are many, many people

for Aisha to learn from.

And maybe in that particular way, I'm not her.

Yeah.

The luckier I am, the braver I get.

Love it.

Aisha.

Thank you, Aisha.

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Okay, we're going to go to Jessica.

Hi, Jessica.

Hi, Jessica.

So great to be with you all.

You too.

You too.

Yeah, I just love listening to the three of you because you bring such different perspectives.

And I identify with each one of you at different points.

The insights that you share on many of the different episodes of the podcast really come from being able to make space enough to find your knowing.

And that's just so hard.

How can we all do that in our crazy lives when we're called upon to be responsive to children, partners, family, coworkers?

It's really hard.

Yeah.

It's so interesting because, first of all, thank you, Jessica, for that question.

So many of us are asking that exact question right now.

I mean, I think that one of the funny things that I've, whenever I hear women especially say, you know, I want to

take care of myself.

I want to take care of myself.

I want to find myself.

I want to, I want to live my life.

But how can I do that when I'm worried about my kids?

I'm worried about my coworkers.

I'm worried about my parents.

I'm worried about, I mean,

one of the ways that I have learned to speak to women, especially is like, okay, we're going to worry anyway.

Like whenever someone says, don't worry, I'm like, great.

That's great advice.

That's super helpful.

We're going to worry anyway.

So it's like, let's worry about something different.

Like, what if we worried about

setting an example for those kids that meant they didn't get to live either because they were copying what we're doing.

What if we worried about not modeling a full human joyful life

that they one day will be able to recreate?

Like what if we just took the worry and switched it in a way that gave us permission to live as well as other people permission to live because i just am telling you like i

just know from my own life that there is this thing that happens when you stop believing

that a good woman or a good mother or a good wife or a good daughter or a good just buries herself, just doesn't live, just refuses to have desires, just refuses to have dreams, refuses to have feelings, refuses to have humanity.

When you stop believing that and you instead decide, no, like a woman does get to have,

have to have

dream, ambition, desire, feeling, intuition, juiciness, all of it.

At first there's a shit show.

There is,

because the whole world revolves around the idea that women will not meet their own needs, right?

So when we do start, everybody has to reassemble for a while.

Balls drop.

People get pissed.

If you can wait out that storm, what I found is that then you start to see your people around you watch you and also give themselves permission to live.

You just like invite more life in.

When you demand more life from yourself, you eventually invite more life from your kids.

I remember having this conversation with our friend Dr.

Brene Brown

on her podcast a long time ago and us talking about this and her saying that she had this day where she came home and she was supposed to go to her son's event basketball game or something.

And she was so freaking tired that she just couldn't do it.

And so she just did not show up for her son's thing that her son really wanted her to be at or whatever.

And it was heartbreaking for her.

And she just didn't show up.

And then the next day, her son came in and she said to him, I'm, I just, I was so tired and I just couldn't be around people anymore.

I just needed to not be around people.

And she thought that her son was going to be sad.

And instead, her son said,

I often, I don't want to be around people sometimes.

We can do that.

He goes, we can do that.

He said, I'm not, sometimes I'm just so, I don't want to be around people.

I want to be home, but I didn't know we could just do that.

She, in her refusing to just martyr herself for her child, she gave her child permission to be her child self.

Yep.

It's funny how that works.

So, what we're going to do right now, because we have keeping you for literally an extra 35 minutes, and I would keep you for eight more hours if I could.

But here's what I want to say to you.

I am so deeply grateful from my family to yours for

walking this, doing this life with us.

Thank you for loving us.

Thank you for loving us even when things got really weird and hard.

And thank you for showing up for us over and over again.

Thank you for loving my sister, who we just, you know, she's lovable.

She's magic.

Thank you for loving her so much.

Thank you.

We love you.

We love you and your families and your dogs and your plants and your lives.

We just love you, and we love you so much that before we say goodbye, we are going to offer you one of the three best things that we have,

which is our Tish Melton is here

and she has something to perform to you because

this is how we end things together.

When life gets hard this week, folks, don't forget, we can do hard things.

Love you.

I walked through fire,

I came out

the other side.

I chased desire,

I made sure

I got what's mine

and I continue

to

believe

that I'm the one for me.

And because

I'm mine,

I walk the line.

Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on map

of final destination

lack.

We've stopped asking directions

to places

they've never been.

And to be loved,

we need to be known.

We'll finally find

our way back home

and through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we can do hard things.

I hit rock bottom, it felt like

a brand new start.

I'm not the problem,

sometimes

things fall apart.

And I continue

to believe

the best

people are free,

and it took some time.

But I'm finally fine

Cause we're adventurers and

heartbreaks on map

a final destination

we lack.

We've stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved,

we need to be known.

Oh, finally,

find

our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we

can do a hard day

Cause we're adventures and heartbreaks on the map.

We might get lost, but we're okay

with that.

We've stopped asking directions

to places

they've never been.

And to be left, we need to know be known.

We'll finally find our way

back home.

And through the joy and pain

that

our lives

bring,

we can do heart

things.

Yeah, we can do hard things.

Yeah, we can do heart things.

Bye, everybody.

Thank you to Sister.

Thank you to Allison and Gina and Paige.

Thank you to PRH, the whole team.

Thank you to Cadence 13.

Thank you to Lauren and Adam.

Thank you to all of you.

Thank you to Tish.

Thank you, all of you.

We love you so much.

Let's keep you in life together.

We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios.

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