50. GET UNTAMED (Live!): This is How You Find Yourself

It's the beginning of a new school year, and also classroom sniffles and sneezes that go along with it.

From home to school and back, stock up with Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissues.

Start the school year off the right way by preparing for the messes that come with it.

You don't want to be caught without a tissue on hand to help.

Kleenex Ultra Soft tissues are soft and absorbent to stand up against runny noses, to keep you and your family clean and comforted as the school year starts.

This to school season, make sure to get the classroom essential that teachers and students can rely on.

For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex.

I think that I know more than anyone on this entire planet that having the right therapist to talk to can make a life-changing difference.

That's why I think Alma is so cool.

Alma connects you with real therapists to understand your unique experience.

You can use their directory to search for someone who specializes in the areas that matter most to you, whether that's anxiety, relationships, or anything else.

And what stands out to me about ALMA is that 97% of people seeing a therapist through Alma say their therapist made them feel seen and heard.

You know, I love that.

That level of connection isn't something you can get from scrolling through online advice or following social media.

It's about finding someone who truly understands your journey and is dedicated to helping you make progress.

Better with people, better with Alma.

Visit helloalma.com slash hardthings to get started and schedule a free consultation today.

That's hello A L M A dot com slash hard things.

Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things.

Today is a wild situation.

I'm really excited about it.

It's an experiment.

We did an experiment on we can do hard things.

So

this

episode you're about to hear is our first attempt at recording a podcast live

with the pod squad.

It was so fun.

Oh my God.

It was so awesome.

It was the journal event when we launched Get Untamed, the journal.

And

it was so much fun that we are definitely considering doing more.

I mean, wasn't it over 13,000 people registered?

Yeah.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

So cool.

That were there.

Yeah.

What did you think, Sissy?

Well, I loved it for so many reasons.

First of all, the fact that we, every time we record one of these podcasts, it's we imagine.

that we're talking directly to the person.

So it was so cool to be able to do it and actually be talking directly to the next person.

person.

So I thought it was great and I loved it.

And the coolest part of the whole thing is that when we, everyone who registered for that event got a copy of the journal and we sourced all of those 13,000 books to local independent brick and mortar black owned bookstores,

which was very,

very cool and very.

hard for them.

And, but it was amazing.

They were so grateful.

It It was record breaking.

It was the biggest event that our publisher had ever done.

And also all the black-owned bookstores, they dug so deep to

get all those orders out.

They had to rent different space and members from our internal team went out and actually helped them.

you know, wrap those books with love and send them out.

So it was just very, very cool to be able to support those small businesses who have endured so much over the last 20 months.

I mean, on average, during the pandemic, one local indie has closed every week.

And to be able to support those bookstores and

have

people

support them through us was really, really cool.

It was awesome.

And I, you know, I love independent bookstores.

I last year was the ambassador for independent bookstores.

Did you know that, Abby Wombach?

I did.

You actually haven't stopped talking about it.

Okay.

You know, every time we walk, so Glennon's thing is she loves to go into independent bookstores.

I do my favorite.

It's like she sees one across the street and she's like, I got to go.

And she just leaves me sitting there waiting.

And it's the only time I walk around just praying that someone will recognize me.

Well, she walks in and as she's walking in, she's always like, you know that I was the ambassador

every time.

And listen, we go into independent bookstores once or twice a week.

Yeah.

Every time I'm like, babe, I got it.

It's like Chase says, it's the only time when being recognized is like awesome for me and Chase.

That's right.

It's the only time we actually love it is when we're in a bookstore.

I don't know.

It's going to be so sad for you when they name a new indie ambassador for the next year.

You're going to have to like, you're going to have to retire your crown.

It's going to be really awful.

I can tell you what that feels like when someone takes away what

I'm going to do.

So I'll be here for you when you fall down.

Well, that's sad.

I only have two more months of the national Independent Bookstore.

You're really getting all the juice out of this appointment, as we're still talking about it 10 months later.

That's right.

I feel like you're really

maximizing.

Here's why it's important to me, actually, because I, because of my job and because of my personality, have been inside

bazillions of independent bookstores.

And what I will tell you about people who own

found work at independent bookstores is that none of them are assholes.

Yeah, they're good people.

They're just always because I don't know, they're just always amazing people who get into it to to spread the love of books and knowledge and connection and serve their communities in such important ways.

So also kind of like mysteriously

intimidating because I haven't read all the books that they have, right?

So when you walk into, you know that an independent bookstore worker, they've read a lot.

They're smarter than you.

They're smarter than you.

And so it's a little intimidating, but if you can get over yourself and just start asking questions they'll point you in the right direction that's right if you could admit that you have not read all of the books that they have that's right right so like if your therapist ever cancels during a certain week just find your local indie and go in and be like hey what's the answer it's so maybe they'll be able to help you they probably are the only people who actually have the answers yeah um but we don't have any answers as you know But we do have some really freaking good questions.

And one of the questions I have for the pod squatters is, did they like the live event?

Yeah, we want to hear because we were thinking about doing more.

Maybe we might do it again

multiple times, maybe once a month.

I think it would be interesting and fun.

And maybe the Pod Squatters could get the episode early because we have to record these episodes early.

Oh, so by listening?

Yeah, you get in on the action beforehand.

I don't know.

Is that interesting?

Maybe.

I'm scared.

Doesn't matter any huge commitments.

My favorite part was the chat.

The

13,000 people chatting with each other on the side.

And they were planning, I kid you not, retreats with one another.

They were planning, they were planning like Instagram pages that they were setting up during the event so they could all get together and read and fill out the journal together.

They were planning t-shirts.

It was like a entrepreneurial community connection in.

the 13,000 people commenting.

It was awesome.

That makes me so happy.

And I feel like that's a fit for me is I can provide a space for other people to plan to get together.

Like, I can't plan the get-together, but I can provide a fake space, an internet virtual space where other people can do that.

Okay, awesome, amazing.

Clearly, we loved it.

You guys and people, humans, tell us if you loved it.

But for now, let's jump into our get untamed

live

conversation.

You should know that I've been been sitting in front of this computer for probably 45 minutes because I've been so excited.

Loads of fun to

start this event.

I can't believe, I still cannot believe that you all keep showing up.

I know some of you are new to this whole whatever it is that we're doing here.

And some of you have been around for so long, but I started writing and speaking to you all 15 years ago when I was raising a tiny little people, and I basically was just sending messages out into the void, just like, I'm so lonely.

Does anybody hear me?

Is there anybody out there?

And basically, that's what I've been doing every day since then.

That's right.

You know, I heard somebody say recently that when we write, we or make art or that we're just like throwing flares up into the dark night, just hoping that our people find us.

And I just want you all to know that

for the last 15 years, which really was right after I got sober, you know, I mean, it was early on going for me, you have been my people.

I mean, you don't know what being,

having you all to show up for over and over and over again every day

has steadied me

and has

been just one of the greatest damn gifts of my entire life.

This is very, very real to me.

When I am 90 years old, I will look back on this.

Well, I hope we're still, I'll still be on Instagram, liking all, like, that's me.

You know, I like every single one of your freaking comments for the last 15 years.

Some days I look over, I'm like, what are you doing, babe?

She's like, just liking, liking some IGs.

I love it.

I'm just really grateful for you.

And I know that this past year or two now, I think about how much loss,

collective

loss

we have all endured in the last two years.

It's just

freaking incredible.

What job everybody have had to do and keep showing up for our people and ourselves.

And it's just everybody, everybody on earth right now does.

Well, there's a few people that most people deserve a standing ovation these days, right?

So thank you.

I love you.

You are my people.

I'm deeply grateful for every single last one of you.

Whether you are working remotely or in office, many of us require collaborating with team members on projects, tasks, and outcomes.

Monday.com is one of our sponsors and a platform that our team at Treat Media has actually used to coordinate our workflow.

It is a platform that helps you from planning to execution, thinks ahead to deadlines, assign owners and actions, and allows you to see progress as a team.

It actually helps us get some work done.

There is a lot of AI out there, but not a lot actually moves the needle.

Monday.com's sidekick is different.

It can actually build workflows, spot risks, update the team.

You just say what you need, and you can consider it done.

Sidekick in Monday.com saves so much time.

Using our Sidekick integration, help to update deadlines, brief teammates, reassign tasks, and it even helps us spot risks before they actually become problems.

Stop managing the busy work.

Let Monday Sidekick handle it so you can focus on the real work.

Try Monday Sidekick, AI you'll love to use on monday.com.

Okay, so

what I thought about how I wanted to talk about this, and I'll tell you this, when Abby used to go away, first she'd have to go away for a speaking trip or something.

She'd have to leave for three or four days.

Pre-COVID, obviously.

Right, pre-COVID.

She used to do this thing where she'd leave the car in a specific

way and place.

She'd park it in a specific way and place.

We all know you're not parking in a very specific way.

That's right.

That's right.

So

she did that because she would be amazed every single time when she'd come back home four days later, five days later, and she would see that the car had not been moved at all.

And she would come in the house and she would say, for Christ's sake, again, you did not leave the house again.

And I would say, what?

Really?

And she'd go, no, you didn't leave the house.

And it would blow my mind because I would say, but I, I feel like I did so much.

Like, I feel like I had such great adventures while you were gone.

That's correct.

And it just became this

joke between us, but that was something was kind of interesting about it.

And the truth is, is that I have always had the greatest adventures

inside myself.

Like, I have always been a great adventurer.

But

without moving.

Okay.

Meaning, like

stationary adventures.

Stationary adventures.

There's so much, you know, like, and, and, you know, I can be,

you know, stimulated by like poetry or art or music or something, an article or whatever, but none of it requires any movement, right?

So it's like it, it stirs up something.

And then eight hours later, I'm just like spinning around through the house.

Oh, yeah.

Right.

And so everything out of cabinets.

that's true everything right mauled through yeah things do happen nothing nothing nothing put back there no cabinets closed right things such as this and so what i'm trying to say is that actually there are a lot of people it's funny and it's also there are people who are more um

wired

for

inner adventure than outer adventure.

Totally.

For many reasons, social anxiety anxiety of all kinds high sensitivity to loud to sound and light a lot of the things that make make us go into sort of shutdown mode outside

we can stay open and curious inside the point being

that

i realize that i am never going to be able to write you guys like uh you people

like a travel guide

never gonna i'm never gonna be able to, you know, be one of those travel writers who tells you where to go about the beautiful south.

Out there.

That's right.

There.

That's right.

But I can be an inner travel guide.

That's correct.

Right.

It's like the interior bucket list that you're looking for.

Yes.

It's like a scuba diving, but it's inner without any water or equipment.

An interior bucket list.

Yeah.

It's blowing my mind, sissy.

And I feel,

I said so many things that were good.

I know, but

God, I'm working so hard over here.

Bam.

Anyway,

it's a good time for an inner scuba dive, okay?

Because

we are going into this wherever the hell we are in COVID, but I think that we are kind of considering what's next, right?

The building of the new normal,

which has to be be different than the old normal.

That's right.

Because the old normal was only serving like five people.

And so we need this, whatever we build next, whether, you know, our relationships, our different family structures, different

institutions, different work life, all of that.

We have to start somewhere better.

Meaning.

Before we just kind of went with status quo, right?

We just like plugged ourself in.

We designed our lives from the outside inside.

We fit ourselves into other things and tried to like make ourselves fit.

We like got it done.

We were like, we see the game.

Here's how we're going to play.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And now I think we have a real chance

to take a minute and

excavate ourselves.

Think about like what we actually want.

Like what our what our actual emotions are, what our actual intuition is telling us, what our actual imagination pull it all out.

And so we have a better starting place for what to build next.

It's almost like the question for me now is not, what are we going to build next?

It's like, hold on a second, let's decide who is going to be doing the building.

Before we decide, thank you, babe.

Thank you.

So I just thought

for this,

that we could have like a homecoming, that this, this, maybe this journal could be a bit of a homecoming for each of us because so many of us just started pleasing so early

that we really haven't,

you know, the world hasn't insisted

that we take the time to figure out who we are and what we dream of and what our emotions guide us to and what our intuition tells us to do.

You know, how do we

take that time

to use our own

imagination, spirit, whatever you want to call it, as the starting place?

Yeah, I mean, that was like the thing after Untamed was published.

It was the thing that everybody kept asking us, okay, this is really good, but how do we do this?

Yeah.

You know, and that was a hard question for me because the last thing that, and all of you all know, is that I think the reason why so many people ask me for advice is because I never give it, right?

Because I'm like so anti-advice.

Because we, well, the only thing I know is that each of us is living out a completely unprecedented and unrepeatable experiment.

That's nobody in the entire world has ever lived your life.

So they sure as hell don't know what you should do.

So when people started asking me that question, as you know, I just kept saying, I don't know.

I don't know.

Because I felt like they were asking me for the answers.

And everyone's answers are different.

But what I figured out eventually was like, no, no, no.

I can give questions.

Like, I can ask questions that I ask myself during my great adventures by myself in my

wherever I am for the day.

I can ask questions that will guide people, the couch, right?

That will hear, that will guide people towards the answers that are already inside of them.

Yes.

And that is what I hope this

journal is.

Stuff to just like stir,

stir up, like excavate that self that has been buried for so long beneath what everybody in the freaking world expects from us.

Just the idea that there is a self.

And you kept calling it an experiment.

Like you kept calling the journal the experiment.

And it was like a process that we could go through and just

undertake and see like what we could learn about ourselves.

And so I'm curious because we've all done it.

She, she assigned, Glennon assigned Abby

and herself to go through this whole journal.

And it was so wild because I was like, we,

I mean, we live and breathe untamed.

I just didn't think that there would be anything

relevatory that we hadn't actually already thought about.

But it blew my mind to be like, oh, there's so much more.

Gee, I feel like that there's a part

that

you want to talk about that unearths our hidden beliefs.

Well, the first part is about

you know so if you think of us as trees which you probably don't but i obviously these are my people they think of us as trees okay

so if you think of us as trees there's the parts of us you can see and then there's the stuff underneath right that like the roots that are beneath us that keep us grounded right but also keep us planted in the same place so i think about these as our hidden beliefs that were passed down to us us from our families or our religions or our culture.

And some of them are serving us and are great.

And some of them no longer do.

And we don't even know what they are

until, you know, we're like, why am I doing this?

Why am I, why am I not speaking up?

Why am I, why am I martyring myself?

Why am I, oh, because I have this unlike, I have this deep belief.

that was planted beneath me that good mothers martyr themselves, right?

And you don't, why am I, all of those things and and so we don't know what those are until we really think about like what do i believe about what makes a good woman what makes a good partner what makes a good worker what makes a good daughter and then you start to like journal all that down and you're like oh well no wonder i do what i do because i have like a i have software yeah hardware probably like programmed into me

that makes me act in a certain way.

So that's what like unearthing those things.

And they're hella hard to change hella hard right but i think they are if you can see them if you can make the the invisible visible it helps you understand yourself better that's right i mean i think that

when i read through this journal um one of the parts that just struck me big time was the stuff about mothering and for me i think that I had a root belief that I needed to be, in order to be considered or to consider myself a mother,

I needed to have some sort of DNA

bond

with our children.

When we first started talking and then dating, and then when we got married, like, you know, that children have been an important thing that I wanted to experience.

And so this whole notion about what a mother is just totally floored me.

And it it took me a long time to actually get through it because the experiment, as you would call it,

because it was hard.

It was hard to get true and real with

maybe this idea, this belief about what I believe a mother is that I grew up understanding, I was trying to, I didn't want to force the rewrite of it.

I wanted it to be real, you know?

And, and so

I also didn't want to lie.

Like, I didn't want to, I didn't want to put down things just to prove my current life correct.

Yes.

Yes.

My God, I've lied in so many journals.

Totally.

All of us have.

And I have like 20 journals that have just the first page written in it.

And that's it.

Anyways.

I just think that getting through the mothering part for me,

and I think if I can remember, it was like the very first couple of pages of this journal working through it.

It was really helpful.

And

it made me understand a part of myself that I'm a little bit afraid of.

I mean, you know, you know that I'm a little bit scared.

And sister, I think you know this too, that I'm a little bit afraid.

I have been in my life.

I need to stop saying that.

I have been afraid in my life to go inside to do this interior adventure work.

Yeah, you're more of an outer adventure.

That's right.

And I have

overcompensated in the outward adventure of my life so as to never go inside.

So maybe we have the opposite.

Yeah.

Maybe that's why we were brought together.

Yeah.

Touch.

I have actually called myself a homosexual because I am so, I love home so much.

I want to marry home.

I never want to leave home.

I am a homosexual.

People are going to have some thoughts about that, I bet.

It's okay because I'm also a homosexual.

So our dogs, Honey and Hattie, are sweet, spoiled, and insanely picky when it comes to food.

We've tried all kinds of brands over the years.

Some would get a sniff and then completely ignored.

Others, maybe once and never again.

But Ollie, it's a total game changer.

Ollie delivers clean, fresh meals made with human-grade ingredients.

No fillers, no preservatives, just real food.

And the flavors?

Things like fresh beef with sweet potatoes or fresh turkey with blueberries.

I've caught myself thinking, this dog eats better than I do.

Dogs deserve the best, and that means fresh, healthy food.

Head to ollie.com slash hardthings.

Tell them all about your dog and use code hardthings to get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today.

Plus, they offer a happiness guarantee on the first box.

So if you're not completely satisfied, you'll get your money back.

That's ollie.com slash hardthings and enter code hard things to get 60%

off your first box.

Okay.

So this one night,

sister happened to be here in our house.

Our whole team was actually here and we were playing this game, this

question game that,

and Tish was also with us.

Yes.

We were playing this question game.

And what ended up happening was

the question got asked to Tish, who has taught Tish the most about love?

And in fact,

Glennon kind of made.

Tish answer this question.

I rigged it.

She rigged it.

And she rigged it because she thought and she knew the answer that Tish was going to give.

It was going to be me.

Of course.

She was like, it's a done deal.

I'm going to, I'm going to be, I'm going to look good in front of my whole team.

Right.

Well,

Tish sat there for a second and she considered her options and understood that there was a lot kind of playing on the line right then in that moment.

She knows her mom.

She knows her mom.

And so she looked at you to kind of get, is it okay if I am like actually really honest?

Yes.

She said, is it okay if I'm really honest?

And I was like, Well, no,

unless it's gonna be Glennon coming out of your mouth.

No, um,

and Tish ended up saying,

Me,

she said,

Abby, yeah,

and so has taught me the most about love.

Everything in my body, like

paralyze, it just goes completely numb.

And

I am struck by

joy and

I start to completely lose it.

I start to cry because I didn't understand

that that would be a thing.

And so Tish then explains to us

that the reason why she feels this way is that Glennon, you and Craig have to love her.

right and that i

choose to love her and i think that

the very thing that I was afraid of actually not making me or making me feel or be seen or experience motherhood is, in fact, the very thing

that makes my child feel

love.

Yes.

And so, even though I went through that part in the journal and it was really hard,

And I got some truth out of it.

And then, and because this was a a part of my consciousness this is why i broke down is because i had been filling this stuff out and looking through the journal and trying to figure out like my place in it all

and as a as a bonus parent what we call it or step parent

you know it's just one of those things that you just don't ever know if you're going to be seen as a parent or a or in my case a mother

and when a child expresses themselves to you that they see you in that way, it completely blows up all of the notions of the stupid conditioned mindset that we were all raised to believe what love is, because

it was not what I thought.

It was not what I thought.

It's so incredible that in that night was unbelievable.

Everybody was crying.

Yeah, I know.

She started crying and sister started crying.

I cried inside, but my Lex approach stops the tears right at the tear duct.

So you can't see it.

So I have to tell people when I'm crying.

Yeah.

I'm crying too, I swear.

Yeah.

But it was, I just think that what you said is that the very thing you thought, well, I'm not a real mom because I didn't, I don't have the paperwork.

I don't have the DNA.

I just choose to be here.

So I'm not a real mom.

And Tish was like.

the fact that you don't have the paperwork and that you don't have the DNA and that you keep choosing to love me is the reason I feel such strong motherhood love from you.

Yeah.

It's just.

And the fact that you weren't like you were trying to convince yourself that it, that you believed it.

Like it's also like, but actually you had to believe it was true in advance to make it true, right?

Like the only way that Tish ends up in that room saying that to you is because of those years of you pouring into her like that, like behaving as if it were true to have real genuine,

like rock hard love with her.

So it was like shocking and unbelievable to you, but some part of your imagination had to have like already believed

that it was true or else all of your years of action

didn't wouldn't have made any sense.

So it's like the opposite.

It's like, it's like maybe believing

in something is acting as if it were true.

even when we doubt it.

Or like instead of you have to see it

until it's true.

It's the invisible order.

Right.

Believe in your invisible order.

Believe in your imagination.

Believe.

And it's like, you know, you can't, you can't see it.

You can't be it if you can't see it.

But it's like, maybe you have to believe it in order to see it.

Yeah.

And it's so funny because I feel that so much of my life has been in search of outward

affirmation or acceptance

in any way.

And for Tish to say that to me helped me feel like a mother.

So it wasn't, wasn't just because I needed to hear it from her.

Like it unlocked something inside of me that made me

be like, oh, right.

This is the best thing that's ever happened to me.

And actually, I said that that night.

You did.

You said, this is the best day of my life.

Yeah, this is the best day of my life.

Did you,

did you feel?

Like that actually helped you replace that belief?

Because that's what I don't know, like for real.

Like, because, you know, you, things happen and and we're like, no, I believe that.

But do you really feel like you've replaced your belief about what makes a real mother?

Yeah.

So I think that some of this stuff goes only so deep, right?

Like it can, it can get into a layer of you.

And then the conditioned part of my mind can play tricks, right?

It totally can play tricks on me, but.

I have to relate, like, I have to get into the part of my mind that remembers that moment.

That's right.

Right.

And so the more of those moments you can have and store in your memory, I think that that's the antidote to combat the overall conditioning that we have.

And we've been sent through the whole of our lives.

Right.

I love that.

Just takes a lot of those times and repetitions.

I like to say, I'm going to keep that in my back pocket.

Yeah.

I'm going to keep that in my back pocket forever.

And so whenever the voice in my head or, you know, that conditioning kind of shows its ugly little face, I'm like, remember.

You can remember.

Look at what I got.

I got a mother card back here.

That's so good.

What about you, Sissy?

What, Amanda?

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

What thing struck you

in the journal?

For me, it was definitely the be still

and no section, which you'll be shocked to learn

was the case.

But

I think it really, especially after the whole pandemic, I think that it's clear to me that throughout this pandemic, I have not coped well.

And the

Be Still and Know section made me realize that what COVID kind of did for me is it took all of my anxieties and traumas and these like relational cracks that were previously just like on a slow burn of plausible deniability and kind of brought them to center stage in like three-dimensional technicolor.

Like it was like, it was like what had before been like an elephant in the room that a semi-healthy person could kind of ignore became like an actual elephant stomping on my actual face.

Like

it felt like that the whole time of COVID, which was lovely.

But one of the ways it became most apparent to me.

was with my children over this past bit.

And I have two neurodiverse kids.

And was what had before felt like this kind of theoretical anxiety about the challenges became in COVID actually, you know, sitting with my son in real time, watching him struggle to try to follow and learn from a system that in many ways is not compatible with his executive functioning and his.

attentional biology.

And it was just this kind of hellacious crucible for me because it was a perfect storm of all my internal bias and all of my fears and all of my achievement addiction.

So

at the end of the day,

it came down to this kind of primal fear of will they be okay?

Like, if he can't follow this three-minute task, how will he be okay in a world that demands so much of us and can be so cruel?

And

so slowly, painfully, and as I was working through that section,

and it was painful, but I realized that, oh, the only thing that is going to help them be okay is if I truly believe that they are.

Not that I tell them that they're okay, because.

but that I truly believe in the deepest parts of me that my children are perfect and miraculous even, right?

Because

until I really believe that, all of the fear in me that's trying to protect them from the world will inevitably just be received by them as the shame and judgment.

That is the same shame and judgment I'm trying desperately to protect them from.

Be still and know for me is actually about like actually knowing and believing that my kids are okay.

Because

when they know that,

they will be that.

That made perfect sense to me for my babies because I actually believe that they are miraculous.

But when that truth settled in on me, I realized that I actually don't hold that truth about myself.

And it's kind of like that same shame and judgment of not being enough.

that I allow to myself to heap on myself is

fear poisoning my life.

Like it just, that poison will never leave me until I truly, at the deepest parts of me, believe that I'm okay.

And so I think that that is what I know is my challenge.

Like I have to be still and know that I am okay

and miraculous even, because

when I know that,

I will be that.

And to me, that's maybe the most really believing I'm okay is maybe the most important thing that I can do and probably the foundation of anything else

I can do.

I mean, if you could just understand

how

I

feel about you and how I see you, that you could ever, and I know that you feel this way.

And I want to honor the way that you feel, but if I just, if you need the way that I see you some days, just like ask me to tell you how I feel about you.

If you need it, I will pump you up because there is nobody who feels more sure that you are magic than me.

And I know you.

I mean, good, good Lord, you're incredible.

What does, Sissy, what does the

not enoughness, the fear feel like?

And what, and do you have waves of the enoughness?

And what does that feel like?

Do you know what I mean?

Like,

what does it feel like in your body or to you when you have the

I am not okay feeling?

I mean, to me, it feels like a loop in my head.

Like it feels like the

stories I tell myself.

Like

if I am comfortable, if I am not at breaking point, then I'm not doing enough.

Like if I am not at breaking point, someone will suffer.

And my work, my team, my kids, like that.

It's just never enough.

And I know intellectually that those are projections of my insecurities

and that

this

belief that I have to kind of hustle for my worthiness.

But I'm trying right now to really ask myself questions about how true that is.

Like,

like, is this

working for me?

Are my people benefiting from my insistence that this is in fact true?

Like, is it possible that something else is true that will feel more like freedom and

i mean is it possible that my life and my family my work would benefit from me not being empty and

also

is it possible that i'm worthy of that even if no one benefits from it yes um yes

so i'm just trying to

i'm just i that's what it feels like it feels like the constant questioning, the constant, you can't rest.

You only have what you have because you haven't stopped hustling.

Yes.

And at any moment, if you choose to do that,

you won't have it anymore.

As our friend Kate Buller would say, I am the center that must hold.

Right.

I am the center that must hold.

Yeah.

Ooh, sissy.

She's just a barrel of monkeys of light.

Easy breezy is what we call sister and me.

You are a good time, Comey.

We are a good time

fun

fun fun everywhere you look i want to know i love you both gosh oh i love you abby um okay after years of writing untaped and years of writing this journal like how the hell is it possible i want to know what

did anything new come to you g when you did your experiment because i'm like oh my god It's a bottomless pit of adventure.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, first of all, you give me a bunch of of questions.

Like, so, so my job is to ask myself these questions alone by myself for days.

Oh, and Landon.

And then, wait a minute, I made the questions.

Yeah.

It's rigged.

It's rigged.

I love these questions.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I actually feel like it stirred up a lot for me.

You know that I, my loop got a little intense.

I think it's so interesting that you describe the not enoughness as a loop, because

when I got still and knew during the be still and no part, I realized I was

not in a good place and

started meditating again.

And it's just interesting to me, and I won't get too far off on this, but that the not enoughness is always up here.

Like whenever you describe the not enoughness is always a mind thing.

It's always a loop.

And then usually when people feel the enoughness, the piece, it's more embodied.

You know, it's like a dropping below that wild not enoughness.

And so that was really important to me because I was trying to change my thoughts.

And that doesn't work for me.

I had to, I have to get below my thoughts.

I have to almost ignore my own thoughts, which is weird because my thoughts also do good things for us.

Right.

So it's like, how do we know when to pay attention and when to ignore?

That's a really good question.

No, it's a billion dollar question, people.

Do any of y'all know?

I do.

It's like when my thoughts are creative and kind, it's like, I'll join them.

But when my thoughts are mean to me or other people, I don't trust them.

It's like, here we go again.

This is not.

And also, you know, your mind is a good thing to be the boss of, but not a good thing to let be the boss of you.

So if I'm like, brain, we have a project.

We're going to write an Instagram post about blah, blah, blah.

My brain is great.

My brain's like, yay, let's go.

But if I'm like trying trying to relax and my brain is like, Glenn and here's what we're going to think about.

We're going to think about like, how much did you allow yourself to eat yesterday?

And also that friend, that friend is getting a lot more done than you are.

And it's like when my, when I allow my brain to take me somewhere, it's not a good place, right?

It's not a good place.

So your brain is like a toddler.

My brain is a toddler

and a jackass one, like a really not, like not trustworthy, poorly raised,

just

I think that at one point you said, I've been listening to my, thoughts.

Like they are the reason and true and correct all these years.

And I thought that maybe I was the thing that was wrong, but maybe it's my thoughts.

Remember when we were in the kitchen?

And I was like, babe, my brain doesn't know what the hell it's doing.

Yeah.

Yes.

So anyway, that is like

something that came up with all of us.

I'll be honest, Instacart has become one of those things that I really rely on way more than I ever expected.

Life is busy.

Between all the work and family and just trying to keep up with the day-to-day, getting to the store isn't always realistic.

With delivery through Instacart, I can shop my favorite stores right from my phone.

Whether I'm out of coffee, which happens all the time, or need to restock on snacks, or forgot that one freaking dinner ingredient happens to all of us, it's all just a few taps away.

And sometimes it shows up in under 30 minutes, which still blows my mind.

Instacart brings convenience, quality, and ease right to your door.

So you can focus on what matters most.

Download the Instacart app and use code HardThingsPod20 to get $20 off your first order of $80 or more.

That's code HardThingsPod20 to get $20 off your first order of $80 or more.

Offer is valid for a limited time, excludes restaurants, additional terms apply.

There's a part in the journal about envy and about things that, you know, the idea that whatever we're bitter about is the thing we need to go for, which I believe with all of my self.

With all of my bitter, bitter heart, I believe that.

Yes, exactly.

With all the experience I have in this.

Whatever we're bitter about, we just have, whenever you're like, oh, that must be nice, it's like, wait, what you're saying to yourself is that must be nice i would like to have that nice thing

right yes so do you know what i got really bitter about i got really bitter about the fact that i was always having to write these things all by myself go into my mind which isn't always a good place to be all alone and all of these dudes were starting podcasts where they just got to talk to their freaking friends I was so bitter about it.

And then I was like, wait a minute, I could be a dude who just starts a a podcast and talks to my freaking friends.

You guys, we can do hard things started largely because of bitterness

of envy.

I mean, it was also that I wanted to have like a place where we could have more nuanced conversations and social media because I'm kind of seeing the tide of social media maybe not being the best place to have any sort of conversation.

But it was also envy, okay,

of dudes with microphones.

And then I want to tell you one other thing.

The dare to imagine really got me this time.

The dare to imagine.

I thought I had imagined everything up.

It's, I'm telling you, it's because it's like, it's like, it's always new.

It's always freaking new.

Like you're, you're, you come back to it and you're in a different day and a different week in a different place and you're imagining different things.

But like after the, the, the bruha ha from untamed, life gets really weird because so many people want you to do these things.

You can do TV shows, this, that, all these things.

But

there was like, there's a part of me that wasn't feeling any of it.

That just wasn't feeling any of it.

And I felt stupid listening to that part of me because I'm supposed to be grateful for these things.

I'm so like, if you can do them, you should.

And see, right?

And sitting down with the dare to imagine part, I was like, I just started imagining, no, no, no, what is like my ideal?

I don't have to do any of those things just because I can.

I can actually,

I love this crew.

I love these people.

I love the real conversations that we're having.

I love working with my sister and Abby.

I love this little community that shows up for the world over and over and over again and shows up for each other and tells the truth in very radical and weird ways.

This is a very strange

community we have here.

Like unusual, beautiful.

Yeah.

Just beautiful.

And other things are not better just because they're bigger.

So it really just helped me figure out, no, no, no, because when the world starts telling you what you should want,

things can get very tricky.

So it helped me ground myself back into what I really do

want.

And also, this journal helped me go start going on TV with no makeup.

You guys, I, all my whole life, since this whole thing started and I started having to go on TV, I've always wanted to go on TV with no makeup.

I don't hate makeup.

I like makeup.

I wear makeup in my house sometimes all by myself.

I'm like, where are you going?

No, because sometimes I just like it.

I'm like, nowhere.

Just going to the couch.

But I don't like wearing makeup on TV because I feel like so many people watch TV and we watch these faces and we think we're watching face real people, but we're not.

We're watching people who have been in a chair for an hour and a half, having things literally added to their face.

When I get out of makeup chairs, I look like a completely different human being, Right.

So what happens is that we don't know that.

We don't like consciously understand that.

So then we start looking at our own faces in the mirror and we expect our faces to look like those faces on TV and we actually start feeling like shit about ourselves.

Yep.

Right.

And so that has happened to me over time.

And I don't want to do it to other people.

So I go to the TV show and I say, I am going to have no makeup.

today.

And then I get back stage and all the worrying starts and I'm about to go on TV and they're like, would you like hair and makeup?

And I'm like, I would like all the makeup.

Like if just, if you could just take take pounds of makeup and spackle me, like a Pollock painting, just like

because it feels like armor.

So I go to this really big TV show and I'm like, I'm going to do it.

I'm sweaty.

I'm going to do it.

I was promoting this journal.

I'm like, I'm not promoting get untamed without an untamed naked face.

So they pull me in.

to the makeup chair and I'm sitting there and I say the words, no, thank you.

I'm just going to go out there looking like I look, Just like, like what faces look like.

And I did it and no one died.

And guess what she said when she saw herself in a picture?

Because I don't watch my own things ever.

She said,

I like the way that I look.

Did I say that?

Yeah, you said, I like the way that I look.

You know, I didn't wear any makeup.

I'm like, baby, I know you told me the whole car ride.

Sweat.

I was like, is it okay?

Am I allowed?

There's like some part of me that as a woman still feels like I'm not doing my job.

Like I'm not prepared enough.

I'm not being professional.

You didn't play your role.

I didn't play my role.

I'm like, is it, am I like, am I, it's almost like, do I feel disrespectful for not doing the whole shebang?

Yeah.

You know what?

People spend more time sitting in the makeup chairs longer than they spend sitting in the actual chair on stage.

Yeah.

Okay.

So that's those are the things that I'm doing and let it burn.

That was kind of like a let it burn idea, like a let it burn that I have to go to these things and put on this other face.

I am actually trying to show up in the most authentic way that I can, just with my own heart and my own brain and my own eyeballs and my own face.

It's all I can do.

It's so interesting too, what you just said.

I mean, it's a makeup thing, but it's also, you said I would, I felt disrespectful, like I should be trying harder.

And I feel like that is,

I feel like that's a thread through so much, you know, like you should, you're lucky to be be here.

Like, never mind that you're supposed to put in, you know, 30 more hours a week than dude down the hall.

Like you should,

it's disrespectful of the opportunity that you have been granted and the gratefulness you should have to question any of it.

Like just keep, keep, keep, keep, keep.

You know, it's just interesting.

I feel like it goes

and it has a thread through a lot of every day.

I mean, I was on a board call this morning and I was wearing a beanie because it was an eight o'clock in the morning board call and I hadn't done my hair.

And I was like, I'm going to put a put a beanie on.

Well, one of the guys on the board call calls me out.

And he's like, yeah, he's like, oh, you must be in a cold weather place, Abby.

And I said, no, I just didn't want to do my hair

just like this.

And I'm like, I want to dress and

present.

Every single time the way that I want to dress and present.

I'm not there to like not piss somebody off or like like follow the rules because guess what?

I spent a lot of my life putting on dresses and wearing heels and girly shoes because that's what I thought I was supposed to do.

And I made myself miserable.

I hated myself when I did that.

And now I just do and dress however I want.

Okay, we're going to stop there for today.

Even though it makes me very sad because I loved this hour so very much.

Here's what we want to ask you.

If you

If you get a copy of Get Untamed and you are taking your own dive, your inner dive,

and you're allowing me to be your inner tour guide, I'm very grateful.

But would you please

call in and tell us how you're feeling about it?

Would you let us know if there's any questions or parts that really got to you or if you had any self-epiphanies or anything came out that was beautiful or hard or interesting to you.

I just want to hear.

And any questions about it is great too.

Yeah, any questions?

So the number is 747-200-5307.

That's 747-200-5307.

Can I say it?

Go ahead.

Yes, you can.

747-200-5307.

Good luck, everybody.

I think you did the best.

Thank you.

I think mine.

Mine was the best.

I still cannot believe that you did not wear makeup on that talk show.

I know.

So freeing.

Nobody died.

I did it.

Nobody died.

I can do it whenever I want to now.

And it feels

so freaking freeing.

If half the population can walk around with their face just facing, so can I.

I can also just let my face face what it wants to face.

It's a beautiful thing.

Thank you.

All right.

Listen, when life gets too hard this week, and it will,

deep breaths, unclench that jaw, drop your shoulders.

And don't forget, you can do hard things.

Well, we can do that.

And come back Thursday.

We come back Thursday because we're

going to go back and answer all the live questions that were asked during the event that were so good.

So psyched.

See you then.

Bye.

I give you Tish Melton and Brandy Carlisle.

I walked through fire, I came out the other side.

I chased desire,

I made sure I got what's mine.

And I continue

to believe

that I'm the one for me.

And because I'm mine,

I walk the line.

Cause we're adventurers, and heartbreaks are map.

A final destination.

We've stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to belong.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives bring,

we can do a heart again.

I hit rock bottom, it felt like a brand new start.

I'm not the problem,

sometimes things fall apart.

And I continue

to believe

the best

people are free.

And it took some time,

but I'm finally fine.

Cause we're adventurers, and heartbreaks are map.

Our final destination

we lack.

We've stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we can do a hard pain.

We're adventurers and heartbreaks on that.

We might get lost, but we're okay.

But that we've stopped asking directions

in some places

they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we can do hard

things.

Yeah, we can

We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios.

Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it.

If you didn't, don't worry about it.

It's fine.

fine.