45. RUNNERS & CHEERERS: Marathon Life with Shalane Flanagan

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Okay, everybody, here we are.

Welcome back.

Welcome back to We Can Do hard things.

Oh, that was good, dude.

Look at us.

Okay, so

today, before we jump into our very exciting pod, which I'm really psyched about,

we want to tell you that Abby,

sister Amanda, and I are very excited because we're going to hang out with you tonight.

at our live journal event to celebrate this week's launch of get untamed the journal it's our first live event together ever i mean except for like the rest of our lives that we spend together live.

It's the first live event the three of us will be doing together.

Where there's other people watching us.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So if you want to come, there's still time to register until 5 p.m.

Eastern.

There's literally thousands and thousands and thousands of people that are going to be there.

Yeah, I think that over 10,000 people are going to be doing something crazy.

Something amazing.

Yeah.

So it's going to be really fun.

It'll be just like this, except with all of us together.

So join us tonight live and in real time at 8 p.m.

Eastern, 5 p.m.

Pacific.

And again, you can still sign up before 5 p.m.

Eastern at getuntamedjournal.com slash event.

So we'll see you tonight.

But now,

let's start the show.

Why don't you?

I feel nervous.

Yeah.

So I just wanted to say that.

I feel nervous.

About what we're about to talk about.

Okay.

What I would like to tell everyone, because you can't see my sweet wife who's sitting next to you on the couch, is that why don't you explain to everyone why you've been wearing that huge golden medal around your neck all day long in our house while we've been doing laundry?

Well, because I earned it.

You earned it.

And how did you earn it?

I completed the New York City Marathon.

Woot, woo.

Yes.

And so the reason why I'm actually wearing this is because I feel like I'm only going to get about a week's worth of goodwill from my wife and family.

And so I want to try to prolong that goodwill for as long as possible.

So, yes, I wear this around.

I also did this after

the World Cup and the Olympics.

You did?

Yeah, because I just wanted people to not forget.

Because people move on, man, pretty fast.

Just like that.

They're like, it's over.

And I'm like, oh, no, no, no.

I'm going to remind you for a solid week.

And then I, and then I stop.

Let's talk about the marathon because I'm so freaking proud of you.

Can you tell everybody how the hell you ended up running a marathon?

Okay, so just very briefly,

about three years ago, I decided, this is about two and a half years, two to two and a half years after my retirement.

I didn't really do much to work out.

I thought that,

I thought that I, quite frankly, I thought that this body earned enough goodwill to never have to actually work out again.

You thought that's how it would work.

I did.

Yeah.

I really, I desperately, really wished.

Yeah.

But then my body just, I felt terrible.

I didn't feel good.

So I started, I decided, okay, I'm going to do the thing that, that takes the, the least amount of time that makes me feel the best and that burns the most calories.

And that was running.

But I mean, by the way, I couldn't just start running.

I had to start walking.

You walked.

I remember.

You started by walking.

I started walking and then I started walking is what I call it, a walk, jog,

mostly walking, mostly walking at first.

And then it turned into a jog.

And then I started to like jog, run, and then I became a runner all of a sudden.

When you are doing this over and over again, you have to like, you literally have to give yourself some sort of goal so as to not get burnt out or bored.

I had a running friend, Katie Brodnick in Naples.

Well, first, let's say you tried to make me your running friend.

She would come home.

My precious pod squad will understand this.

She would come home and try so hard to get me to run with her.

And she would try to trick me in all these different ways.

And one time she came home and she said, Babe, I just listened to this podcast, ironically.

And in it, they said that if you, for every mile that you run, you add seven minutes to your life.

So she said, it's math, Glennon, like you could actually extend your life.

And I said, okay, if you want to bring math into it, it takes me 17 minutes to run a mile.

So if it adds seven, but take 17, I'm literally, I'm losing 10 minutes of life for every mile.

Like running is killing me.

It's shortening my lifespan.

And that's math.

So then you found this other friend to run with you.

He doesn't understand math.

Yeah.

No, I don't think that's quite how it works, babe, but I see your point.

Yeah.

I see your point.

Thanks.

Yeah.

So Katie and I, we became workout partners and fast friends.

And so we started, you you know, training for these things.

We trained for a half marathon.

And then when I completed my first half marathon,

I thought, I guess the next step is a marathon.

And somewhere on my bucket list,

my secret bucket list that I don't talk to people about,

there is the marathon, right?

To complete a marathon.

And at that point, our kids were in middle, some of our kids were in middle school.

And our middle school coach, Coach Lou,

she, every time we would go to their cross-country meets, she would always just kind of like nag me, like, sign up for a marathon.

Like, come on, do it.

You know, Coach Lou is a magical angel who inspires middle schoolers to run and their parents.

And their parents, but just like has helped, helped walked our family through so much.

How to force a middle schooler to run.

for an extended period of time is a freaking miracle.

Yeah, if you can do that, you can do anything.

So there, there I was with the decision, and I signed up for the 2020 marathon in New York City.

I think we all know how 2020 went.

That marathon got canceled.

Remember that day?

That was like the best day of our lives.

It was the best.

You pretended to be sad for like 10 minutes and you couldn't even fake it.

Well, because it was many months before the event.

So at least I didn't like train the entire time and then it got canceled at the last moment.

That would have been horrible.

I did do a couple of long runs, but not

as many as I trained for this last one.

So

I kept running throughout COVID.

I just, that was what I was doing.

That's kind of what I have become in this process.

And I guess I found myself in New York City again, you know, like signing up for this marathon.

I was actually able to coerce a couple of my teammates to train remotely with me, to run it.

with me Leslie Osborne.

Leslie Osborne, Lauren Cheney.

And there was actually a couple other women who trained with us, but had injuries, Heather Mitz and Kate Markrath,

former teammates.

And to me, that was like, that was so special to be able to reconnect with all of them in a physical way.

Even though we weren't doing it together, it felt, it felt like a good accountability.

When we moved to California, some of the women who lived more on the East Coast or Midwest, they would text.

like that run was brutal yeah you guys really reconnected during that time so so we find ourselves in New York City.

So we're in the cab.

We're in the cab and you turn to me and you say,

what can I do for you this weekend to make sure that Sunday goes as perfectly as it possibly can?

Yeah, that was an important moment because I noticed that you got like really quiet.

You told me it was kind of like how you used to get on game day.

Yeah.

You were playing.

I was kind of in the pre-game.

I was going into game day mode.

Yeah.

But I've never experienced that before because I wasn't, we weren't together during the day.

I know.

It's so interesting.

But we were in the cab and I was like, why isn't she talking to me like this she doesn't not talk like terror alert level red why is she not talking is she choking on something

and you were in the mode and i was ruminating about the whole thing i was processing i was thinking about every little detail because i know that those small details matter yeah right and um and i think that you caught on that I wasn't really being present.

I wasn't.

I asked you.

Yeah.

So you asked me.

And I think that

I think that that might be like one of the most important things

that could have happened to me that weekend because

I think I was contemplating, how the hell am I going to do this and also take care of you?

Yeah, because pod squad, we were going to New York City.

So I often get lost on the way from my pantry to the family room.

So you can imagine how Abby was feeling about a weekend in New York City when I might be, when she might be distracted and Chase was coming to.

Yeah, a little side wrinkle.

Chase was on a train coming from college to also

come and be with us during the day.

So you were worried about us.

Yeah, it was a little stressed.

So you asking me that question was wonderful.

And how did I respond?

You said, you looked at me, you turned to me in the cab and you said, honey, what I need from you this weekend is that I just really need you to pay

attention.

Pay attention, Glennon.

Pay attention, Glennon.

And damned if I didn't say pay attention, Glennon, to myself every minute of every day of that weekend.

I tried so hard.

I think that Glennon does paint like a good picture for you in terms of how she experiences the world.

And it's not far off.

Glennon,

you know,

I am constantly vigilant.

Is she stepping in the way of oncoming traffic?

Is she on her phone, not knowing that somebody is going to crash into her?

And like, when you're in New York City it is a not a forgiving place no I am vigilant I'm being vigilant also I'm just being vigilant to things on the inside of me that's right to my imagination to my brain to my heart that's right I was feeling yes I was telling you you can't be totally on your inside world all the time yes in New York City you got to come out and and join join join us pay attention and we did and you went and did all of your pre-marathon things chase and I navigated New York City Chase is you know he gets lost on his inner world too.

So he, we kept, we were walking by each other through Times Square.

We were both going, pay attention, pay attention.

And then we went to see Brandy, our friend Brandy Carlisle, perform Joni Mitchell's Blue at freaking Carnegie Hall.

Yeah, that was so special.

That was unbelievable.

And then we stayed for that.

And then the next morning, tell us about.

Well, I had to actually, I had to get out of there early because I was stressing about hydrating.

They wouldn't let me bring any water bottles inside.

It was so beautiful, but I had to go drink water.

And I wish you guys could have seen the Brandy Carlisle Joni Mitchell tribute concert.

There were so, I feel, I told Brandy we should have had a designated survivor for that night because

had something happened at Carnegie Hall, we would have had no queer elder lesbian

people left on the planet.

They were all

there.

It was the, it was joy.

It was just utter joy.

I just wanted to like close the doors and just everyone live there.

I don't know if anybody just picked it up, but Glennon just called herself a queer elder.

Did you hear it?

She said, we.

I'm going to get it tattooed on my forehead.

I want to be, that's my, I want to be like a queer aunt.

I want to be a queer godmother, fairy godmother for all of the young.

I want to, yes.

Okay, go ahead.

So, so now it's game day.

Now it's marathon morning.

Yeah.

Well, I had to get back to the hotel that night and set up my clothes because I knew you would come home and I didn't want to disturb you and Chase.

Like Chase is like on a cot in our hotel room and I didn't want to disturb you.

I had to wake up at 4:30 in the morning.

And then I was just like, I've never run a marathon before.

And so I was like, I guess I'll just do it like I would do a national team game.

Right.

So I woke up and I took a shower and I did all of the little, like literally every little ritual that I did with the national team, I was doing it by myself in the little bathroom.

Like, and you know, when you take a shower in the winter, it just gets steamy.

Yeah.

So I was like trying to put my clothes on and it was like all sticking to my body.

It was not ideal.

Um,

but I did it.

I got on the bus with Lauren and Leslie.

Um, and there we went.

Like we, the bus drove us to Staten Island and we happened to get there.

The way that it works is there's so much traffic, that's so many people condensing

down into one spot that you have to go super early and so you sit there for three hours till the start it's awful just worrying it

talk about hyper analyzing

hype like you're there for as long as maybe the race will last right for some of the runners um and so all of us are kind of in this little area

Every one of us has, you know, I have like a belt that I'm carrying my food in, goo or whatever you want to call it, any kind of calorie.

I have my phone.

I've got headphones in case like I need it.

So then you start.

So the race starts and

it's like

you're running over this initial bridge, that Staten Island bridge, and it's like a two mile long.

situation.

Oh, the bridge is two miles to start off with.

And there's 30,000 people running.

Yes.

So we are, we happen to be at the front, okay.

Um, and so I realized I turned back and I saw some signs that were like three-hour pace, three-hour and 15-minute pace, three-hour 30-pace.

And those are not our pace times, so lots of people had to run past us, right?

So, I had to like

tell us,

I was like, hey, listen, if a lot of people pass us, like, don't freak out.

Like, because these are national team, these people do not like to be passed.

That's right, let them pass, and we will find

our little niche.

So,

we're running, and we get over the bridge.

And the way that the marathon is, the course is structured is you go over five bridges, I think it is, and

no fans are allowed on the bridges, but fans are allowed everywhere else.

And every other inch of that course, there was a human being cheering us on.

It was, I mean, honestly, like, I don't know how else to describe it other than the word magic.

I mean, those first five miles, we were running faster than we planned to.

We kept saying like, slow down, like we need to slow our pace down because we're going to, we're going to, our legs are going to go.

So yeah, the first half of the marathon truly was magic.

I feel like

it's the hardest physical human experience that I've ever done.

And running with my teammates was special, especially because I felt, you know, people who know me, people who've trained with me know that fitness was never something that I loved to do.

In fact, I, I hated it, right?

So doing this thing, doing the New York City Marathon was a huge deal.

So you're running the first half.

Yep.

And the first half, the first

half of the race, you said was awesome, right?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, it was amazing.

And then the second half hits, there was this long bridge and my friends were like, start to creep ahead of me.

And And I'm like, what the hell is going on?

Sure enough, they're feeling great still.

And I am now about to hit the wall.

And the wall was brutal.

And the wall never ended.

Like, I never got my legs back.

I never like felt good again.

I just, it was brutal for the rest of the, rest of the time.

Lauren.

ended up going a little bit ahead of us.

Leslie was like, please, I'm running with you.

And I literally had to beg her.

I I was like around mile 22, I think.

I said, Leslie, if you don't run faster and go ahead of me, I'm going to be so pissed.

I love you and I will meet you at the finish line.

And how sweet that she wanted to stay with you.

I know.

So what got you through that last time?

It was Alex.

It was Alex's sign, right?

Yeah.

Our dear friends, Alex and Jodi, were there with us.

Yeah, they were there.

The night before, Alex.

asked me, what is a word that I can say to you that will trigger some sort of

response, like a run faster, like make you get through it.

And I thought about it for a second and I said, rather than a word, I would like you to ask me a question.

And the question was, who are you now?

So lo and behold, Alex made a poster that said, Who are you now?

Well,

the irony of this whole thing is all I thought about through the whole race was, who are you now?

And every mile, babe, I swear, every single mile, the answer was different.

The first mile it was like

awesome

strong easy

no problem right

and then as the miles kind of went on the the words and my answer kind of shifted in different ways pain and sadness there were some miles with grief

But like one of the things that I'm so proud of is that all I had to do to keep moving through those emotions was just keep running, just to keep putting one step in front of the other.

And in the end,

it was mile 24.

I was running alone at that point.

And so I turned on my headphones and I played

the playlist, the very first playlist I ever sent you.

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You told me you realized that you were so freaking exhausted and so out of

everything that you realized the only thing that was going to get you through the last two miles was love.

That's right.

And so you put on, which has so many slow songs.

I can't believe that you finished the marathon with all those slow, low songs.

Yeah, but that's what moves me, you know, like that's love.

And I don't know, I think that those first and 24 miles i feel like i truly experienced the entirety of the human experience like every emotion possible um and then and then i decided okay how love is going to be the thing that gets me through this

and then it made me realize in the end like after thinking about it i think that actually all of those emotions are love.

Like, I think it, that's what it is.

It's not like, they're not separate.

They're all together.

Yeah, they're all together.

They're all together.

And it's so interesting because you think,

well, the point of the marathon, I mean, it's such a spiritual experience.

We think it's to survive the physicality of it.

But really, when you talk about it, it feels like it's to survive every emotion that people go through

being human.

Yes.

All in one event.

That's right.

You go through all of it and survive all of it by just continuing to move forward, which is a hell of a metaphor, if I do say so myself.

Well, I just want to talk real about your experience, baby.

Please, I mean, my God,

that was a lot of me too.

It was, and I really do truly feel like this was my marathon.

Okay, because I just want you to know

anyone who's been listening to me speak my words for some time knows that I tried out for cheerleading like five times, I think, maybe, maybe six, I don't know, in middle school and high school.

Um, I

was

horribly uncoordinated.

I don't know why I thought that that it was ever going to work, but I just so desperately wanted to like belong.

I felt like if I had a uniform, that was, would be proof that I belonged.

So, that is what I wanted more than anything.

But I kept failing at it to the point where my dad was like, You need to stop embarrassing the family, please.

We know we told you you could do anything, and we want to amend that to mean you can do anything except

almost here.

Yeah.

So the thing is, this weekend at the marathon, I fulfilled my lifelong dream of becoming, I was an unfucking believable cheerleader.

Okay, I want to explain to you all.

You're standing on the streets of New York City.

Okay.

You have your signs.

You get there.

There's thousands of other people on the streets of New York City, and there are people running by you who have been running in the streets for miles, hours, and they are old and they are young and they are medium and they are in wheelchairs and they are on feet and they are, you know, fists in the air and they are heads down crying and they are just committed for some God knows reason to continue moving forward.

And it is the most inspiring thing I have ever seen in my entire life.

I screamed.

And then the most amazing thing, you guys, is that, y'all, is that

a lot of them write their names on their bibs.

Okay,

so you can scream out their names, okay?

And you, and you see somebody running, and they look so tired, and they look like they're about to give up, and then you see their name, and you scream their name, you say, Helen, looking strong, Helen,

hell yeah, you're a marathon or Helen, and you just see Helen.

Like, you can actually see

the love that you offer from a stranger from the street go into a stranger who's running and fuel them.

You watch

love from a stranger fuel somebody else.

Do you still hear my voice?

The marathon was five days ago.

And if I sound extremely sultry and sexy today, it's because I still am getting my voice back.

Five hours of screaming.

And what I want the pod squad to know is that there were many pod squatters running in this marathon.

Okay.

So this amazing thing kept happening where I kept screaming at people, Go, Jacqueline, go, Missy, whatever.

And they'd turn around and they'd go, Glennon, hi, we can do hard things.

And or whatever.

And they'd end up with a huge house.

And she was also holding a sign that said, Abby.

Abby can do hard things.

Abby can do hard things.

Yeah.

But they'd turn and say, Glennon, and then they'd keep running.

And then I'd scream for someone else.

And then they'd say, Glennon.

And the lady next to me, after a while, there was a lady cheering next to me and she turns to me and she says,

My gosh, you know so many people.

It's just wonderful.

And I was like, I know, I know.

But the point is that I really truly believe that anyone whose heart is hurting or who has, you know, lost a little faith in humanity should freaking go and stand and cheer at a marathon.

That's right.

Because it is seeing strangers love other strangers and seeing this triumph of the human spirit and triumph of humanity coming together to cheer each other on was healing.

In my retirement, that's what I want to be.

I want to just be a professional marathon cheerrill.

I love it when you talk about retirement.

Yeah.

So can you tell them, babe, about

crossing the finish line?

Because this was a really special.

Well, first and foremost, before I got our playlist going, I called

Coach Lou.

I know.

I FaceTimed Coach Lou at the 24th Mile

because I wanted her to experience this.

She was back in Naples, I I think,

and she did our program through and through.

So I was so, I just was overcome with like gratitude for her.

And I wanted her to be included in this moment.

So I FaceTimed her real quick.

And she mentioned to me, you're ahead of schedule.

And I was like, oh my gosh, for the last two miles.

since Leslie went ahead of me, I've been feeling bad about myself.

Like I was like, that I didn't do good or I wasn't doing it fast enough.

And here she was, she was like, you're ahead of schedule.

And I'm like, holy shit, I'm about to finish this marathon ahead of the schedule that I had planned.

This is amazing.

Isn't that a beautiful metaphor?

Whenever we compare ourselves to other people, it's like we're behind.

That's right.

And we need somebody to remind us, listen, everyone listening, this is Glennon saying to you into your earballs,

you are ahead of schedule.

Well,

when you're running through Central Park, because that's at the end, the last bit,

I just, the 25th mile, I got a little emotional and I started to cry inside.

I started to like,

you know, and people were cheering me on.

Some people recognized me, which was so outrageous.

And I finally get to the finish line.

I finally get to stop running.

And so I walked across the finish line.

I was, I was so grateful to be there that I really wanted to like take in that moment.

And so I slowed myself down enough to literally walk across that finish line.

And when I looked up,

Shalane Flanagan

was in my face and putting the medal around my neck.

Tell these people in case any of them don't know who Shalane Flanagan is.

Well, first of all, she was my running idol.

Right.

In 2017, she won the New York City Marathon.

She's an Olympian.

She's a a retired professional runner, marathoner.

She's an author.

She's a mom.

She's amazing.

And

that I

will never be an elite runner.

She has always been an idol of mine.

And also, by the way, like an idol of Coach Lou.

And she finished.

and waited an hour and a half.

Yeah, sadly, she had to wait an hour and a half.

That's how fast she finished the marathon.

But what was so special about her is since COVID,

the marathons kind of got rescheduled, all grouped together.

So she was able to schedule a challenge for herself that she would run six marathons in six weeks.

And this New York City marathon would be her last.

So did you hear that, Sweet Pod Squatters?

Six marathons.

Ran six

weeks.

Marathons in six weeks.

And then she has inspired Abby so much and she waited so that she could be the one to put the medal over abby's head i walked up and saw the end of that and was like well now i'm dead yeah i will never see anything more precious than that she's amazing i actually saw her at the start line and i i kind of sought her out because we had been dming on ig and um sure enough she was like oh my gosh here you are and i was like okay i'll see you later I mean, never did I think for one second that she, of all people who had just run, if I had just run six marathons in six weeks, I would be in the hospital.

And there she was still standing by the finish line with her medal on, putting my medal on.

And speaking of Shalane Flanagan showing up at the most perfect times ever.

Dedicated to giving back to the sport she loves, Shalane Flanagan is now an elite coach to the Bowerman Track Club, global spokesperson, and a mom.

After retiring as one of America's most decorated distance runners, Flanagan's accolades include four-time Olympian, Olympian silver medalist, 2017 TCS New York City Marathon Champion, World Cross Country Bronze Medalist, and multiple American record holder.

She is the third fastest American marathoner in history.

Shalaine is the fastest American woman to run the Boston Marathon in 2 hours, 22 minutes, and 2 seconds.

Along with her co-author, Elise Kopecki, she is the three-time New York Times best-selling author of Run Fast, Eat Slow, and Run Fast, Cook Fast, Eat Slow, and Rise and Run, which became an instant bestseller.

We have

Shalane Flanagan here with us on We Can Do Hard Things.

The one who does the hardest things.

Pod Squad, just so you know what we have going on right now, we have the two heroes who helped Abby through her marathon.

We have Coach Lou,

who trained her and also our entire family physically and emotionally.

That's right.

And we have the Shalane and Coach Lou, you're a big fan of Shalane.

I am.

I am a big fan.

And I have to tell you that what you've done for girls in running is incredible.

And I want you to know that

when we talk about marathon running and my PE classes in coaching and the kids after the 2017

New York City Marathon, they came back to class and like, wow, watching marathons are fun.

So it was just

like, and also coaching girls and trying to talk about nutrition.

When your book came out, it was incredible because that awkwardness of talking about performance and running with girls is so tricky.

It's almost, I don't want to say impossible, but I was able to take your book and give it as gifts to my runners and my girls.

You have no idea how far reaching

just writing writing that book as a coach of 31 years to be able to say we can now have this conversation and yeah you it is

you have no idea what and i don't know if abby told you that there's a little girl on our our cross-country club at golf coast runners her name is shalaine and she was named after you so she's five years old and she so we're like go shalain she's five and so it's just oh my gosh i don't know if you realize the impact on running and just your professionalism and what you do for women and sports.

And I'm just a huge fan.

I need a pep talk from you every day.

That's right.

Like, like all of us, we all put our head down and we work hard and we hope we reach people by pursuing our passions and

giving and being of service.

But you never, sometimes you don't know.

You don't know what impact it is having.

And so I appreciate you sharing that with me because it fills me up to keep working hard at what I do.

And

yeah, it's awesome.

And the sport is incredible.

I've met the most amazing people through running.

So

yeah, thank you for sharing that with me.

I'm curious.

I want to know, I want to know how Abby was as an athlete for you.

Like, was she coachable or was she like a know-it-all?

Like, that's what I'm always curious.

Like, you take an athlete from a different background and like, are they as coachable?

Like, he's extremely appreciative

and willing to do whatever.

And the dilemma in this training cycle with COVID was very difficult.

I really thought at times that she was going to say, yeah, this is just not going to be for me.

And I was like, because when she first started training, she was on par to really have an amazing.

pace and time and I was eager for her to

run and see to prove to herself what she can do and so when it was canceled I started to worry so I would give her a lot of space And then every now and again, I would check in and say, hey, are you, I'm still thinking of you, just checking in.

So I kind of did accountability, but not over it too much, just enough to go, I'm still waiting.

And what do you need from me?

Are you ready for the next cycle?

So I knew there was a point that

there was where I think she was questioning.

She could answer that.

But then her strength training coach.

I think really had a big difference in her.

And it really, so a lot of the running that she had done really allowed that strength training, allowed her to keep some of that.

And I told her a while back that, because she was going to do other marathons.

And I'm like, you're a New Yorker.

You have to have your first marathon has to be the New York marathon.

My first marathon was New York, and I'm from Boston.

So that says a lot.

I knew from day one that it was the best one in the world.

So

unfortunately, you've kind of like peaked a marathon in life, Abby.

Like, good.

You can't get better than that.

I have run a million races around the world, and it's better than the Olympics.

It's better than anything.

It's so good.

Yeah.

I told her that the best thing is when she comes to the finish line is that Shalene Flanning is going to say her name.

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Shalene, how did you, how in the same hell

did you decide to run six marathons in six, like in six weeks?

Like, just please explain to us how this happened.

And did you have one day between two of those marathons to recover?

Yeah, a little less than 24 hours.

Yeah, if you finished when I finished Boston, yeah.

The short answer of

everything is because I can.

And that,

because I feel like at times we don't have to like justify our goals all the time to everyone, but like, because I can.

Like, I have the ability and I love it.

But there are a lot of like layers to why I wanted to do it.

So the long answer is, one, I retired in 2019.

Right shortly thereafter, I had double reconstructive knee surgeries, which was brutal.

I didn't run for a year.

And during that year,

you know, I switched to becoming a coach, and then we immediately hit a pandemic.

And so it was like this goalless abyss.

And coming from being such a goal-oriented background and an athlete and using my body, I didn't understand the connectedness between mental health and physical health.

For me, moving my body 100% improves my mental well-being.

And so retiring and losing kind of that self-identity, I felt like a head imposter syndrome becoming a coach.

And I just was struggling really hard, like everyone.

I had this one really shining light of adopting my son, Jack.

So that was wonderful.

But I felt this need to like reclaim my body and my mind again.

And I needed a hard goal.

I needed something that was going to take me out of my comfort zone, give me something to train for.

I'm not, I'm a driven person, but I'm not, not i need goals i need something to hold me accountable and um to get excited about and when i saw this um schedule release uh with the abbot world majors running all six of them because of the pandemic i thought wow that's like a once time once in a lifetime opportunity to run all six within 42 days and i thought someone should do that and then i'm like

But then I was like, why not me?

I could be capable of that.

And as long as my knees, you know, were capable of it, I certainly in in my head was capable of it.

And I thought, what better way to celebrate running in the running community, reuniting?

And I just felt like I wanted to bring my girlfriends along with me and go on a running adventure around the world.

And we did it.

And I had the most fun I've ever had running in my entire life.

And it was, yes, it was just.

It was like reuniting with my best friend.

I didn't realize how important running was to me until it was taken away.

It was like just a lot lighter.

I like to describe it as like a different texture of a relationship for me with running.

It was so serious when I was a professional athlete and it was about winning and it was about setting records and it was just, it was harsher.

It was a lot of like weight I was carrying.

And now running for me, I call it like I play running.

You know, other sports like soccer, you get to play soccer.

You know, it's awkward to say play running, but I just, I feel like that's important to feel joyful and playful with what you do.

And I just felt the need to get back out there and my own kind of context of what running was for me.

Do you know what?

Hold on a second.

You just have to go back to the thing that she started with.

You don't have to explain your goals to anybody.

Yeah, because I can.

Oh, shit.

I also would like to say, Because I can't.

An excellent answer.

Because how many people have asked me?

I don't know.

Are you going to run?

Why?

Why not?

Because I can't.

That's right.

And I don't have to explain that, right?

If Shalene doesn't have to explain, I can.

Then you don't have to explain why you can't.

That's right.

I love the play running, Shalene.

I noticed a difference in myself when I used to say, I have to work on my book, or I have to work on this podcast, or I have to work on whatever.

And when I say, I get to play with this story, or when I say it differently, it feels different.

I do it.

Absolutely.

That's

I get that.

What are you into?

I get to run or I get to do this instead of like a have to.

It's a huge mental shift.

So, yes.

And, you know, just so you know, like, we, we're not going to sit here and talk all the ways through the marathon or your running career.

Like, I actually just want to get to know you as a human being, especially now that you are no longer competing professionally, though what you just did for those six weeks is like outrageous and it feels like a professional thing that you just did.

Like, what are you into?

Like, what are the things that you like?

What does a day in the life of Shalane look like?

Um, I like feeling like needed for sure, and I like to be busy.

Um, so my day is heavily includes family and coaching, and um,

so you know, my son, um, he is one and a half years old, so he is not in any daycare yet.

So, my husband and I are like full-time with him.

Um, fortunately, uh, here in Portland, I have my sister who lives across the river, and then my parents are 300 meters up the road, so we have a nice little family pod of support.

So Jack's well taken care of with family and myself and my husband.

And my husband's a high school cross country and track coach.

So he's, our schedules are really nice.

I'm in the morning with the professional athletes, training on the Nike campus.

And then basically, I get to hang out with Jack the rest of the day and do fun podcasts like this or work on cookbooks or recipe testing.

And then, you know, my husband has the evenings where he is with working with high school kids.

So it's, I feel like we feel really fulfilled and getting to work with incredible people.

What do you, what is, because I know that running, you had to develop an immense amount of resilience mentally, physically, emotionally.

What in your life now, because I know you're still running, I know that you still do that, but what in your life now is the thing that makes you have to, it's like the transference, like you bring that and you, you plop it right into your like daily life.

What is the thing in your daily life that you have to like bring that kind of resilience to?

Well, I think parenting.

I was hoping you were going to say that actually

parenting is not easy.

And Jack isn't even like, I'm not like, I'm like kind of just keeping him alive at this point.

It's not like real parenting quite yet.

I mean, we're starting to like feel like I'm having a mold on him.

And that's why I wanted to bring him to all these marathons I ran around the world and the country is I want want them you know impacted by the people I'm with, I think they're the great people.

So, um, yeah, I think parenting and it's exhausting and it's wonderful and it's hard.

And um, but he gives me a tremendous amount of purpose.

I call him my life enhancer.

He is just every day, like I go to like wake him up in the morning or get them, and I'm like, dude, you got cooler and cuter at the same time in like 24 hours.

Like, how did you do that?

Like, it's fascinating to watch children grow.

And

man, I, I, I want a lot of kids in the future.

Um, I think they're super fun.

And so, to me, bringing like my a game every day to make sure I take care of him, that right there, that's a that's a hard, a hard job.

Takes a lot of goo.

Takes a lot of goo.

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

Yes.

I mean, you know, the things, the other things that I like, I'm desperate to know about you.

Like,

are there things in your life that feel hard?

Because if you run the way that you have run in your life, by the way, folks, Shalane finished all of her six marathons in six weeks in under two hours and I think 47 minutes for each marathon, which is sub six minute marathon pace pile or six minute mile pace?

Yeah, I think if you, someone the other day who was like, oh, you average, if you average them all together,

I average six minute mile pace for

across all of them.

So, yeah, that's wild.

I mean,

I

don't, it's incomprehensible to me what you've achieved.

But to me, it's like, that feels so hard in like every possible way.

What is the hardest thing?

that you're actually dealing with in your life right now other than parenting.

Is there something extraordinarily hard or even mildly hard that you're going through right now?

Well, first of all, six marathons in 42 days was hard.

But like, what have you done for us lately, Shalene?

Yeah.

First of all, I just don't want that to think like, oh, that's like a, that's easy for me.

It's not easy.

And that's why I wanted to do it.

I needed to, for me, when we do things, like when we choose to do hard things, I feel most alive.

Like I feel the most beautiful and the most alive when I'm running.

I do.

Like even though I'm sweaty and I'm grinding it out, like I feel the best about myself.

So I've, you know, especially when you get to choose the hard thing that you want to do, like that's obviously different.

But yeah, I think trying to find my way in the coaching world,

you know, the phrase like you can't be what you can't see

in track and field

and just in the coaching world and of what I'm in, there are not a lot of female coaches to emulate and to look up to.

So I'm trying to find my way in

a world that is just, it's male heavy for sure.

And so I'm trying to figure out, like, and I have great mentors, and they're all men.

So I'm just trying to figure out how I can do the best possible job as a coach.

And, you know, hopefully there's some little girls out there that are like, oh, I want to, I want to get into coaching too at that level.

There are plenty of amazing female coaches at a variety of other levels, but this professional level, it's very male-dominant.

And so to me, it's hard trying to figure out where I fit in and what are my strengths and what are my assets and not feel like an imposter at times.

I show up to the Olympic Games and I look around and I'm like, there's maybe like one or two other female coaches.

And

so just trying to navigate that and make sure I do great jobs obviously inspire more females to get into coaching.

Do you have a cohort of, because we hear this from so many women because in every lane,

There are

the ones like you, right?

The women that have no one ahead of them to look.

So they're just pioneers.

They can't follow anybody.

Yeah.

Do you have a cohort of other women who are in other industries, but in your similar situation?

Yes.

Yeah.

You know, someone that used to run the New York Roadrunners and the TCS New York City Marathon, Mary Wittenberg, she has been someone who I've looked up to for a long time.

And she used to be there.

And now she's dabbled in cycling and other sports and run some major companies.

And I'm always, I met with her for coffee the day after in New York and just picked her brain on, you know,

how can I learn from you?

How can I, you know, what am I doing wrong?

Just assessing everything and

having someone like Mary, and there's a variety of other women, but for sure, she's been someone I've looked up to.

I mean, reading incredible books.

books, I'm constantly trying to read for inspiration and learn from the best.

You have written a book, you and your friend Elise.

Kopecky, do you say?

Kopecky, yes.

She was there at the finish.

Yep.

Yes, I remember Elise.

Rise and Run.

It's a cookbook.

Also, recipes, rituals, and runs to fuel your day.

Shilane, we're raising two girls.

I have dealt with eating disorders my whole life.

And so I am scared shitless constantly to talk to my girls about food because I'm so scared of saying the wrong thing.

I'm so

and so I love what Coach Lou said about your book being a way to talk about food

as something that we do so that we can

fuel, so that we can perform, so that we can, instead of about how we look.

That's right.

Right.

So it's not about how we appear.

It's about how we feel and about how we can move.

And it just feels like hopeful.

How is it writing a cookbook?

Because I love cooking.

Yeah.

So this is our third book.

And I'll be honest, at at the beginning, Elise and I came up with this idea over just a home-cooked meal.

And I was expressing to her how I wanted to extend my career a few more years to make another Olympic team.

And, but I just felt underfueled and undernourished.

And I didn't feel like I knew how to fuel myself for these long races like the marathon.

And that I was just feeling kind of just blah, like I didn't have enough energy.

And she's just come back from culinary school.

And granted, Elise had been working at Nike and sports marketing and a full successful job.

And she pivoted hard to go to culinary school because she just felt this pull and draw that Americans were underfueling and not eating the right food.

And there was a lot of diet trends and misinformation.

She and I grew up in the

era of like low fat and no fat diet.

And so we came up with this idea to start using me as kind of a guinea pig from what she learned in culinary school, which was to incorporate the healthy fats, you know, the avocado, the olive oil,

to indulge in delicious food.

And it should be nourishing and indulgent and satiating.

And as soon as I started to eat the way she was recommending,

you know, there's no calorie counts, no grams of this, no grams of that, like, because that makes you crazy.

Like, in my mind, it makes me crazy.

And she's like, we don't only need you to be worrying about like the splits on your watch and how many miles you're running each week.

Like, you shouldn't be worrying about all that.

So, in all of our our books, there's no, and it drives some people crazy because they're not used to it, but we don't have calorie counts.

We don't do that.

And I felt energized as soon as I started to change my diet the way Elise had recommended.

So, I was like, we have to share this information.

Like, maybe someone will publish us, maybe they won't.

So, we called it like Shalaine and Elise's like cooking project.

And

before you knew it, though, we were published by a real publisher.

And

we became a New York Times bestseller, which was like,

so we just, now we're on our third book.

There's just more about us.

And the emphasis and overall message is how you start your day can transcend and affect the whole rest of the day.

And even like the night before, how you prepare and the rituals impact that next whole day.

And it's just like those little things

just really make a big difference.

Tell us about some little things because I'll tell you the truth, that's what got me about the title of your book.

It wasn't, you know, it wasn't the rise and run part,

but rituals.

Yeah, because I don't think we pay enough attention to the little rituals in our days that really change everything.

What are some fears?

Well, so, you know, the night before, I definitely, as soon as Jack goes down, I try to prepare for the next day.

And so that if that means like meal prepping, so that we can have a less hectic morning, like when you have kids and you're trying to get them off to school and Jack's not that age yet, but I can sense like there's this anxiousness and busyness and to like enjoy each other's company.

So I prep the night before as best I can.

But then in the morning, I really try to like be excited for the day.

And so one ritual that like Jack and I have is music is really, for some reason, speaks to me.

So I put on music every single morning and it's a different genre.

It could be rap.

It could be reggae.

Who knows?

And he and I do a little dance party.

And like, to me, that's like our ritual of how we start our morning.

Just dancing and some good music, good vibes, sometimes just simple as like lighting a candle.

So for me, lighting a candle, like that nice glow.

And then just like some good music.

And then, you know, to me, coffee is very ritualistic.

And then just having good food that you feel like is going to give you energy for the rest of the day is

essential.

I agree with you.

When I had little ones, it was so important to me because I could be in a crappy mood and not feel like being like an energetic, awesome mom.

But when you put on music, it feels like you're being an awesome mom, like you're doing something.

Yeah, like you kind of have to fake your way.

I have a saying that I got from a life coach, he's like, mood follows action.

So, like, you have to just kind of go do the thing.

So, I like make myself dance.

I may not be in the mood to, but I make myself dance.

And then, before I know it, my mood has shifted.

So, that applies to so many things: training, whatever.

But the mood follows the action has been like my motto the last year.

That's kind of how I feel about what the marathon was for me.

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I wish I could turn around and just like interview Abby and the experience that you two had in New York.

I just think like the marathon for me,

it was an experience of like learning what it was to become human and then realizing like maybe it was like an experience to every step was like to realize like I am not specifically those emotions, you know, like that you can get through them.

You are not them.

They pass through you, but you kept going.

Like that's what I kept thinking when you were saying that.

Like

you were the one, you weren't the emotion.

You were having the emotion.

You were the one who continued on despite of the emotion.

That's sort of like a meditative.

That's right.

Like when you realize you are the observer, you're not the

feeling.

That's right.

Because if you indulge in all of those feelings, you wouldn't get to the finish line.

It has to be very,

you have to push through them.

I wish there was like these bubbles that would pop up.

over the top of runners heads because it would be amazing to see what people think about because it you you go through such a like a transformative journey in those 26 miles like you go from elated thinking like i've got this i'm going to crush this to then the next mile you're like uh-oh i definitely don't have this this is bad you start to get really negative and then working through that negative talk and it's like the the roller coaster is insane what can happen in 26 miles so that's why people are so emotional i feel like when they finish because they're like i worked through a lot of stuff out there to get to this finish line you know not not just in the race but in the training too like the training to to me is like transformative in itself.

But then the actual 26 miles, it asks a lot of you physically and mentally.

And I think more, more so the mental aspect is big.

You can completely talk yourself out of getting to that finish line very easily.

Yes.

Because there's so many seconds that you can actually stop running.

Well, sweetheart, you said to me, when she finished, she got past you.

She got through the emotional coronation.

And then she got to me and I said, are you okay?

And she said, well, the thing about her exact words were, the thing about finishing a marathon is that you can't stop running ever.

And I was like, yeah, I think that's right.

You can't stop ever.

I feel like we knew that before that this, but that it was blowing your mind that you didn't stop.

for three hours and 40 minutes.

Yeah, it's, it's one of the things that I'm most proud of in my life.

Yeah.

That's why she's still wearing the medal three days later on.

I love it.

Shalene, can we talk just before we end?

I just,

I want to talk about, because like when you say

the trauma and like getting through

one mile feeling like you're on top of the world, I've got this.

The next mile, you're feeling, I don't got this.

I mean, truly, when you're talking, that's how I feel all day.

Like, I'm not even being funny.

Like, that's how.

My whole day is.

And that's why I think some people with like anxiety, depression, we don't need to run the marathon.

We're like, how you like us now?

That's how Tuesday is for us.

Okay, that's a Tuesday.

So,

but

I do want to talk about how do you feel about the cheers on the side?

Because Shilane,

I had, I had one of the most inspiring days of my life watching

you all run.

Because

I felt like,

you know, the world, I really had this feeling of like the world needs runners.

It needs people that are doing this thing, but the runners need the cheers.

That's right.

It's a symbiotic relationship.

It is essential.

Like, why was New York so special?

It's not, yes, the runners were great, but it's the fans.

I mean, I have never felt the intensity.

And I don't know if it's post.

you know, COVID, but I have never felt so much love and intensity being thrown at the runners than I did this last marathon.

That's why I said to Abby, I'm like, I think you may have peaked because this was the best New York I've ever been a part of.

It was, it was insane.

I mean,

I don't know how I, oh, I mean, I had chills and like my body, like every hair was standing up.

Like I, when I think about it, like, I just felt like my, my sensors were like on fire.

It was intense.

And it's, that's what, like, it, it it literally fuels people forward.

They, they know that they're going to get to the finish line because of the love that they're receiving from the sidelines.

It makes it a whole new experience.

Like, I did, I don't think people realize

that that's what's so special about the marathon: that relationship that they have with the people who are on the side of the road supporting.

Like, that is everything.

It makes it worthwhile.

Well, and you know, you won the 2017 New York City Marathon, and I can imagine everybody knows you as you're running.

So you must experience just Shalay!

Every step.

I mean, I will say this.

A couple of people recognized me along the path.

And that was really helpful.

Like, I was like,

I see

somebody knows me.

I got to go a little bit faster.

Yeah.

Everybody must have said, Shalay.

Like, that must be.

so

energetic just to go through.

I mean, if you're not, if we're not on a bridge, we're on a street and there are people there.

It was just, there's nothing quite like it.

And probably coming from COVID, you guys, because

it was like we were all so alone.

And to be in a space where strangers, we had all been through this thing where we were all locked in our homes.

And then to be in this space where strangers were together again and connected and loving each other and sharing for each other.

without knowing each other was just, it was like the antithesis of everything we'd just been through.

That's right.

The healing of the brokenness of before.

I just have to say, before we like end here,

I've met a lot of inspiring people in my life.

And for the most part, what they do is like really, really amazing with their sport.

But there's something different about the running community that I've never really quite experienced before.

And I don't know, when you're out on the course, I just had this feeling like

we were all strangers, but we were all the same.

There's this like, there's this unification or like a mold, like a like a smushing of human beings or something.

It's hard to explain.

And I feel like you having been such a leader and still being a leader as a coach.

I just think that you are one of, if not the most badass human beings I've ever, athletes especially, but just like, it's so incredible what you have been able to do with your life.

And not just because you're a great runner, but because you're such an incredible supporter of other women and of other human beings.

That's what makes me feel like you're a magic little running elf, Shalane Flanagan.

I'm like speechless right now.

Like that.

That really means the world coming from both of you.

Like you have no idea.

And

I think I messaged you, Abby, that morning.

I was was like, the running community is so excited to have you be a part of this journey because you know what?

Your journey was the same as mine.

Like we took those same steps, we covered the same distance, the same road.

And that's what I think I love about

running is like Bob, who finishes in nine hours, goes through the same thing that I went through.

We really did.

I know my steps were a little bit quicker than Bob's, but at the end of the day, like we went through the same thing.

And to share that,

there is just a formation and a a bond that it's just like if someone's like, I've run a marathon, they're like, Oh, I know you.

Like, they like, they like, they get you.

So, yeah, I hope you're excited to take on more adventures.

Um, I don't know if you've set another goal, I don't have a goal yet, um, you know, beyond just getting back to some other things in my life.

But, um, yeah, I just let me know the next time you run a marathon.

I want to be there.

It was, it was so great to be there for you and be with you and meet your family.

You have an awesome support team.

Clearly, your coach is great.

Coach Lou.

She's done.

Coach Lou's awesome.

We're in LA.

Will you come visit us?

Bring little Jack and come visit us.

Absolutely.

Would love that.

Yeah.

You're always welcome.

We love you so much.

Let's go to the pod squatter of the week.

Hi, Glennon and sister and Abby.

My name is Seth,

and I am actually calling in not with a question, but to share a very special moment and in hopes that the person who made this moment happen listens to this podcast and hears my message.

A year ago, I could not run more than a quarter mile without stopping or hating every second of it.

And last Sunday, I ran my first half marathon.

I ran the San Francisco half marathon.

A year ago, I decided I was going to do the hard thing and I was going to become a runner and that's what I did.

The

race was the hardest thing I've ever done, or one of the hardest.

And just as I was thinking, I physically and mentally could not do this.

Also, as I was approaching the last of the San Francisco Hills in the race, I saw a lady holding a sign that read, you can do hard things.

And the word hard was painted in cheetah print.

And I swear I had to hold myself together from crying because

It was such a special moment.

I felt like that sign and that lady were placed at the bottom of that hill for a reason.

And those words and everything I've learned with your book and through this podcast pushed me to finish the race.

And I finished and I

felt very proud of myself.

And I just wanted to share this with you guys.

Thank you for the community you've built.

Hopefully to motivate someone to do that harsh thing that they think they can't do, you can do it.

But also in hopes that that lady who was holding the sign hears this and hears this and knows how

important it was for me And just a dinker.

This is the kind of shit that makes me cry.

I mean, Rudy, that's awesome.

Any kind of sport moment.

And Steph, that is proof that we need cheers.

We do.

We need cheerers.

People doing the hard things and people cheering for the people doing the hard things.

I wish everybody had cheers.

I wish teachers had people outside their classrooms with signs and like ER nurses and like, oh my God.

Okay.

Um, Shalaine, is there anything you want to say to that to that pod squatter?

You never realize at times the effect you're going to have on people.

So, always put your best self out there and just keep doing great things because you never know.

And, like, hearing stuff like that just

reinforces what you guys are doing.

So, all right, so that's our next right thing.

We just got from Shalane.

Put our best self out there

in each moment.

That's our next right thing.

And if we can't run, make a sign.

Well, here's the thing.

You're a runners or you're either a runner or you're a cheer.

Either way, both are needed.

That's right.

Shalaine, thank you for coming and being a part of this podcast.

This is our pride and joy.

And you,

you'll never understand how much that moment meant.

We keep laughing about it because I'm like, how?

did I looked up and there you were and then you were putting this medal over my and then you know what they tried to do they tried to give me a different medal and I was was like, she wouldn't let them.

No, no.

This is the medal that, this is my medal.

That's the one I picked out for you.

I was like, I need a good one for Abby.

That's right.

And to Coach Lou, thank you, Coach Lou.

We love you so much.

For all of the teachers and coaches out there, please never, ever doubt.

the impact you have on children and families.

Coach Lou has changed our family's life and continues to from Florida

when we're not even in her classes anymore.

So thank you to all the teachers and coaches.

Thank you, Shalane, Pod Squad.

We love you.

When life gets hard, don't forget we can do hard things.

Yes.

See you next week.

See you in the next marathon.

We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios.

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Especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it.

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