If I Ruled the World: Petty is Power

so if you go just to a resort and or you're like me and you're just in your airbnb all day ordering uber eats you're not really soaking up like the local place okay okay so we're agreeing yeah because because that's what i was wondering i was like sometimes i feel like people travel but they don't actually go anywhere and and and i've seen this you know like you you'll go to different parts of the world and you'll find yourself in a hotel somewhere and that hotel for all intents and purposes may as well be America or England do you know what I mean it's like this is your country with your language with your tv channels with your foods with your and then all people want to do is sort of like go on like a safari into the local environment see the people people, don't really like be in the place,

and then come back and be like, I had a great time in Costa Rica. I had a wonderful time.
It reminded me a lot of Peru. And it was also very similar to the Middle East.
It was great out there. And it's like, no, you went to the same hotel everywhere in the world.

You're listening to What Now?

The podcast where I chat to interesting people about the conversations taking over our world.

And today on the podcast, we're literally taking over the world with one of my favorite classic thought experiments,

if I ruled the world.

By now, you know the rules.

If you were in charge and you could change one thing about the way the world works,

We'll be right back. experiments, if I ruled the world.
By now, you know the rules. If you were in charge and you could change one thing about the way the world works, what would you change? And then, after you make your case, we vote.
Does your change go into effect or do we veto it? Well, joining me today, writer, journalist, and professional hater, Christiana Mbakwe Medina, and writer, comedian, and human chill pill, Josh Johnson.

Let's get into it.

Is everyone on?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Why are you laughing at me, Christiana?

Because you're sitting in a closet. Where I go.

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Well,

I'm excited to have both of you because this week is one of our special episodes If I ruled the world I know Christiana's always thinking about ruling the world You're one of those people who deep down inside wishes you could rule Josh, you seem like you would be a Yeah, you do, you do Josh, you seem like you would be like an involuntary ruling the world person yeah i think i would rule if everybody died like it would it would it wouldn't be intentional it just be there's 12 of us left and you know everybody else doesn't want to do it and i don't want to do it either but i drew the short straw i think i'm closer to Christiana's side. think i could well i don't think i could rule the world but but i i i could yeah maybe six months maybe six months i could do it for and then i would yeah i would i would have like a 52 approval rating which is pretty good in politics yeah yeah i thought i thought yours would be a bit higher because you've got like that culty energy to you like i'm glad you didn't start a cult i feel like you could have a very successful cult if you had started yeah no you would crush a cult it's like the optimism do you know what i mean and then it's like he's always up to something but you don't think he's i'm glad you didn't start a cult that's the thing you're like i'm gonna be a comedian i'm a comedian.
I'm not going to start a cult. But yeah, I think your approval rating would be very high, in my opinion.
I don't even know how to feel about this. I'm a culty type of...
There's so many other words someone could use, you know? Oh, you are adventurous. You are friendly.
Josh knows what I'm talking about. You charismatic.
Cult? You are convincing. Damn.
No, no, look. It look it's a good thing this is the thing you use it for good though so it's not as if it's ever an issue you've only ever you've only ever used it to help people and it's and it's actually um uh there's a there's a special talent that everyone needs a friend that has this talent to have that can that can get you to to do something in your best interest that you weren't gonna do that's like actually that's life-saving imagine i like that actually you know imagine if i'm over here out here being wild right nobody can tell me anything and then you pull me aside and you're like josh josh what are you doing that that right there is like all i'll need okay all right well this is good to know okay well let's uh let's jump into it if i ruled the world remember simple rules it is one big idea the other two people on the podcast get to vote about whether or not they would say yes or no to this that determines whether it goes into effect it immediately kicks in worldwide like everywhere in the world at the same time and then people have their memories of the life before but it's always been this way at the same time so don't be like oh but then they have to change no it's just like it's just it just happens it just switches no no exemptions no nothing um so josh do you know what it's gonna be don't tell me now i just want to know you know what it's going to be? Don't tell me now.
I just want to know. You know what it's going to be? Yes.
Yes, I do. But I will probably have to clarify a lot.
Oh, goodness. Okay.
I didn't expect anything else. Christiana, do you know what yours is going to be? It's never a good sign when, like, your rule comes with a bunch of caveats.
Yes, yes.

All right, Christiana, you rule the world.

You control everything.

Who run the world?

Girls, yeah.

Who run this mother?

You got this. So if I ruled the world, I would make travel mandatory.

And you get a travel voucher from the government.

And you have to travel to a foreign country every single year and you can't pick the same country twice so if you went to France last year you have to pick a different country we'll give you more money if you pick like a different continent for instance if you went to Africa one year the next time you're like oh I'm gonna go to Australia etc etc if you do not take me up on the offer you have to commit an act of like national service so you have to like pick up trash in the park you have to clean the tube you have to like read books like there there is a penalty for not traveling but if i rule the world i would make travel mandatory now do you want to hear why yes yes is my pitch, right? So if you travel, it's great because it like opens up your horizons, right? And you appreciate things about where you've come from. So right now I'm like, wow, Americans are very attractive people.
That's not to say people in England are not attractive, but people in America, I'm like, oh my God, I live somewhere where people are like very hot all the time. And mind you, all I do in America is complain.
I'm like, these people, they're annoying Americans. And now I'm like, oh, they're very attractive.
And I'm like, oh, they're personable and friendly. And like coming home to England has made me appreciate stuff about America, but it's also made me be like, oh, America needs better public transportation.
So like kind of widens your horizons and it makes you appreciate what you have back home and if you're like a bigger who traveled it means like your racism becomes very specific and i think specific racism is like the best type of racism so for instance if somebody writes in my comments you ibbo bitch you people love money so much i'm like that so impressive. Like you haven't called me Zimbabwean.
You haven't called me Jamaican. You've identified my tribe and a trope to do on my tribe.
So it means you even get to know the people you hate better on an intimate level. And I think that's actually a very helpful thing.
So I say mandatory travel. And if you don't travel, you have to do some sort of national service hmm okay so just just so we're on the same page i'm just making sure i clarify everything here so you're saying mandatory travel for everyone everywhere in the world they have to go to a foreign country once a year if they don't do it they have to pick up trash and basically community service and so they don't okay and one of the reasons you want people to do this is so that they realize that there are hotter people in other countries um and also so that they can appreciate some of the things they may take for granted where they're from and also some of the things that might be better elsewhere and then last but not least it'll help people become better racists because their racism will be more specific as opposed to just like broad because they haven't been.
I love an informed bigot. They're the most interesting to debate with.
But this is what I want to say about the American side. I was saying to my husband, I was like, you know, a lot of Americans say America is the greatest country in the world.
And I think the people are amazing and their government should treat them better and part of why the government gets away with it is because they haven't gone to like a country that has like high speed rail like you live when i lived in texas it was just impossible to get around by yeah rail and i was like shouldn't there be a fast train from san antonio to austin to houston to dallas and you could if it was china it could do it in like 30 minutes and i'm like why aren't people revolting this country is so wealthy it should have like what is very basic infrastructure but i think if enough americans went elsewhere and was like hold on look what they have over there they would come back and be like you guys have to get your stuff together and i think sometimes countries get complacent because enough of their citizens don't see what other people have. So sometimes it's good to go, you know, when you go to someone's house, you're like, oh, I didn't know my house is not that great.
I could get a house. Yeah, I'm not mad.
You know what? I'm not mad at this. Okay, I will say this.
So two thoughts that I have. One, your first instinct is that everyone should essentially colonize the world.
This sounds very, I mean, this sounds like a very light pitch for colonization. Mandatory.
You have to go to other countries and see what good things they have and come back and tell us all about it. And then we definitely won't come and take it when we realize they have it better than us.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that's probably not what you're pitching.

Although I do worry that that's what it leads to

because look, my first instinct is I like it.

But then the second instinct I have is

I sometimes feel like half of the problems

we have in the world are because people have traveled.

What if we just like shut everything down

and no one could go anywhere?

Then you wouldn't be able to go

and take something from somewhere else

and you just wouldn't know.

And then you just be like, I'm in my country. I don't know i feel like you you're planting the seeds for colonization and and at the same time inspiring people josh can i just give my counter quickly trevor i actually think if more people from other countries came to the west they'd be like i'm not moving here like how close, like it would, it would decrease immigration.
All you need is a few weeks in England with the rain and the people and the bad food. You're like, I'm going back to Nigeria.
I can figure it out. Or, you know, give enough Guatemalans sometime in America.
And they're like, oh, these people, all they do is work. I'm going home.
I actually don't think it will cause colonization. I think it would lower immigration, which I think a lot of people want.
I don't. I believe in open borders.
Yes. Let's be clear.
But I'm just saying, I don't think it'd actually do a colonization. I think people would come to the West and be like, oh, it's not what it's cracked up to be.
And people would go to like different parts of the world, like people from the West and be like, oh, this is beautiful. But, you know, I couldn't live here.
He is too oppressive. I don't know.
Josh, what do you make of this? So I actually agree very much with Christian. Basically, a lot of what Christian said was what I was about to say, which is if everyone is traveling and visiting, is it really going to be colonization just because everyone's going to find their fit in the world in a way that I think would surprise us? Because even though it seems like any type of person going into another culture would just, oh, I'll just stay here and I'll just soak up all the good parts, whatever, there are going to be things like Christiana is saying that, sure, all these people come from this area to this area, but then maybe half of them are like, I can't handle this other thing.
So for instance, a lot of people have a sort of obsession or interest in American culture and particularly in parts of American culture, they're a little bit dangerous, but it really takes a lot of people in the world one time of being shot at to be like i think i'm good i'll just watch it on tv okay wait let me let me get get a few more clarifying points how long do the people have to go for um three weeks three weeks they have to go okay now how do you ensure that everybody's not just going to one country Because I mean like Look at the world now right So Japan Complaining about Too much tourism Spain Barcelona Complaining about Too much tourism Just tons of places Around the world Where Italy Italy is like falling apart Too many tourists Too many people coming To see the Coliseum And Rome I thought about that It's like the School You just rank what you'd like. You rank your top 20 and then you get what you're giving because guys, it's a free trip and I'm a benevolent dictator.
So you may get somewhere you like, you may get somewhere you dislike. But if you turn it down, the penalty, imagine you said, okay, I'm going to go and then you put in your form and then you turn it down.
Then there's a bigger penalty in terms of the national service that you have to do. Like you'd have to do an extra week of national service.
Do people get to go back to a country they liked? You can if you want to spend your own money. Wow.
This is the thing. Oh, okay, okay, okay.
This is not part of the government program. If you want to spend your own money and go to the south of France every summer, you can do that.

But my hope is, like, this is me borrowing your optimism, Trevor, that people kind of, like, do the Anthony Bourdain version of the experience.

R.I.P.

A good white man, actually, who was really good at going to places without colonizing them and being level with the locals and being very respectful. He was, yeah.
He was indeed. And you kind of welcomed Anthony Bourdain coming to wherever it was.
And I feel that like if people took the Anthony Bourdain approach, sometimes you go to countries and he'd be like, oh, the people are beautiful, but they deserve better. Like you can come away with a very nuanced perspective that maybe make you more appreciative of where you're from or make you hate it more.
And so I'm hoping that people do the Anthony Bourdain type of travel, not the Christopher Columbus type of travel. What happens if people always get robbed in the same country? And I'm just saying this.
I'm not even going to pick out a specific country in the world. Let's just say like every time you send someone to that country, they get robbed.
And this country just goes like, don't worry, guys. They can't do anything about it because they have to keep sending people to our country.
Because like if I had like a really poor country and I knew that somebody had to send tourists to us, because right now, people go, don't go there. It's dangerous.

But now I'm like, no, no, no, guys.

Everyone has to come here.

Because Christiana has made it that the whole world has to travel.

So that means we're going to get a good amount of people coming every year.

We're just going to rub the shit out of them.

And then next year, we wait for the next batch.

What do we do then?

This is my counter.

I have a friend named Jessica, who's the black woman who's visited every single country in the world.

She's amazing. She has a blog.
What do you mean every single country? She's the first black's um visited every single country in the world she's amazing she has like a blog what do you mean every single black woman to visit every single country in the world around instagram is north korea yeah she went to north korea she went to north korea she visited every single country in the world um and it's funny because in the sometimes she'll do her thing about like on her instagram she'll be like the worst airports the best airports and countries that she really enjoyed. It's always the places that people think are super dangerous.
And this is a black woman that's had a very different experience to what like you're told. You know, like there's some people that like don't go to that country.
The men grope and then you go there and the men are super respectful, you know, almost like distant. They're like, may I grope? Yeah, may I grope? And you you're like i do not give you consent to grope and they grope everywhere anyway but it was like a polite groping um but like so she i i sure there's gonna be robberies like it's not gonna be perfect but i i do think those like it's often the like the most impoverished nations where the people are most generous and they're like, hey, come into my little house.
I only have water, but you can have some. So my feeling is that people will learn a lot about the human spirit.
And you're probably going to get robbed in London, if we're honest. Okay, I'm ready to vote.
But Josh, do you have any questions, any clarifications, any thoughts on this?

I think it's a great idea, but I do wonder if there are – if you worry at all as you've come up with this and you've thought it out very well. But let's say somebody only has a certain amount of years, right? Are you going to make any priorities? And do you worry that the priority countries that you try to make for people will be too biased? So for instance, let's say there's a place where it's like, people really only live into 38.
So this is when you got to be choosy. We're not getting the 70s and the 80s that we are in some other countries.
So where we send those people who are on average living to like 38 or 40, do we have to prioritize some places or is it still random? It's still random because that's the nature of life. Quotes like that, that's where I go.
You have a prime dictator in you and I'm proud of you. Thank you, Trevor.
But Josh, I thought you were going to ask the inverse. I thought you were going to say like, for the old people, should they still be going on these missions to different countries? Oh, yeah.
No, send them. Yeah.
Old people love traveling. Yeah, they love traveling.
Old people love traveling. They love it.
Okay. Ready to vote.
Josh, your vote. I am very in favor.
All right. On my side, I cannot lie, Christiana lie christiana this is a brilliant brilliant idea if i ruled the world i i vote as well two votes it has passed everyone will be

traveling once a year to somewhere in the world so uh yeah pack your bags somalia here we come

don't go anywhere because we got more what now after this all right josh johnson you rule the world seven billion people they all look up to you lord j Josh, Lord Josh Johnson, pray to tell Lord, what do we do in your kingdom? Okay, okay. This is going to be proof that I should not lead.
But I think that petty should become power. I think that if you have an argument or if you have a dispute and you're willing to be the pettiest, that you should have the backing of your local government, of the people.
I think that petty should become power. And because this thing, this thing, no, no, no, no.
Hear me out. Hear me out.
Because last time we did this, you were like, ooh, you try to be all altruistic and stuff so i try to go the opposite way so now josh now petty will rule okay so let me get this straight josh you because you felt slighted by my comment clearly last time which first of all let me say i apologize josh i didn't know that i That I hurt you I didn't intend to hurt you And I apologize But I can see that That hurt has now Turned you into Somebody who is A little aggrieved And so now you're saying You are promoting Pettiness In part Because you Are being petty And trying to spoil the world Is that what you're saying? No I'm trying to spoil the world. This is just why I don't know if I have the qualities of a leader.
What you said really got to me. And so it took me in another direction.
All right. Okay.
Okay. So explain, wait, explain the logic behind this.
So what is happening? The petty, petty is the power. What does this even mean? Okay.
So if you have a dispute with somebody, let's say y'all have problems, right? Yes. Ooh, you are in a full Kendrick and Drake situation.
If you're willing to do your research, if you're willing to go further, if you're willing to learn your enemy, right? Then we, as a local government, will back you in an entire pop-out concert whenever you want to have it. It won't even need be juneteenth you could just put the concert together with government funds and you can whop whop whop whop okay let's so now let's take this away from rappers there are two neighbors and they're having a dispute and they're fighting about like a tree that's dropping leaves into the other's yard.
And then the one neighbor decides, okay, since you won't cut down your tree at night, I'm going to come in there and, I don't know, put termites into the trunk. What is your government doing? Okay.
So we assess, right? We assess the disputes. and then between the disputes, whoever's willing to be the most petty, because those termites, let's say you're willing to put the termites in the other person's tree to tear that tree down slowly over time, right? But then, let's say because termites don't just know where to eat, the termites get into your house and they start eating up your house and everything.
We as the government will be like, you were willing to go further. We are going to reinstate you with a new house we're going to build a house for you because you you were willing to take it further than anybody else is willing to take it josh i feel like your world will be gone in like two years listen i'm with you i'm like when they go low we go lower we go to the earth core yeah right so oh when they go low we dig We dig we get a shovel okay We're getting dirty down and dirty So Josh help me understand this What is the purpose of this ruling Not that you have to have one I just want to know like You know when we approach you dear leader And we ask if we may What is the purpose of this like why why is pettiness rewarded over everything in your world i i hate to answer a question with a question but what is the purpose of the sims i mean these these aren't real people this isn't a real world so i'm i'm just going ahead and i'm watching it burn because in real life i do my best to not be petty and to always keep uh keep my head and take the high road and stuff.
So this is a little bit of cosplaying on my part. I will even say this, for the criminal justice system in my world, we would be far more creative because I don't know if time necessarily translates to crime.
It like what, especially if you did a nonviolent crime and they're like, but according to a bunch of statutes that we came up with a long time ago that didn't have this thing in mind, you have to do 15 years now because it's the third strike on this nonviolent crime, whatever, right? Okay. Okay.
Okay. You got me.
You got me. I think that a judge, a judge would be someone that we elect out of their ability, out of their acumen for petty, right? And then that judge would then sentence someone in the pettiest way possible, especially for a nonviolent crime, right? You know what? I was totally out and now you've slowly started roping me back in.
Oh, it the dream imagine a world where someone is speeding right someone is speeding very fast now they haven't hurt anybody and they've been pulled over but they were going a full 60 above the speed limit right yes now in a lot of places depending on your situation depending on um um your your overall record that could be life ruining, my judge in this world would be like hey hey no problems no problems but you will have to drive at 180 for the next week but where not on the streets josh not on the not on the street but just when you are the when you are the highway your your car is to have a governor Usually the governor is going to stop the car From getting too high Your governor is going to stop the car from being too low Okay Josh This is the most psychotic world It is psychotic But can I tell you something It kind of feels like imagine you lived in a world And everyone was the joker you would act right i

think in a way it's just like when there is no restraint on people and you know people can get as petty as they can and like the judge is the joker if you ever end up in the hands of the criminal justice system you may be like actually i'm just gonna behave myself wow and be sensible because that is a terrifying punishment for me

because I really can't drive even though I do. So I'd probably die within like the first day of having to maintain that speed minimum.
So I think it's perverse enough that it would make humans behave because you're like, I don't know who I living next door to think so at all i think you are just creating chaos and murder and i like i'm worried now josh about you no no don't worry about me i'll actually i'll actually uh hopefully strengthen my point with a quote from my good friend tre Trevor Noah. All right.
You know, even though we were joking and it was jokes and it was very funny, part of what made me come up with this world was a thing that you said years ago where you were talking about how polite everyone is when you know everyone has a gun. And in fact, we should all have to walk around with our guns in hand when we have a gun and everyone will just sort of behave themselves.
And that's kind of what I

was thinking when I was like, yeah, if everybody knew that they would get government backing,

if they got petty enough, I think that they would be like, I don't know how creative that person is.

So let me state for the record that you have taken me wildly out of context.

That is the first thing. So I'll state that for the record.
So here's the thing that you have taken me wildly out of context that is the first thing so i'll i'll state that for the record so here's the here's the thing that gets me when it comes to when we reward pettiness the issue i have is we then live in a world where it's a race to the bottom right like you look at families you look at these these boys who've been raised by dads who go who punched you you go back there and you punch them even harder. And you let them know that you don't punch someone from this family.
And then that kid goes and punches them. And then the older kid comes back and punches and punches.
And it's just like, what are we doing? In fact, I would argue that's why we are where we are now with Russia and the rest of the world. Right? It's just been a race of pettiness to the bottom like the united states comes in after world war ii with russia they do a terrible job of divvying up the world but then it just becomes pure pettiness right so america goes oh we want to build nuclear weapons and have more of them and we want a little more land and then russia goes we want we want to feel bigger than you and you didn't respect us we should do this to make you respect us and then they go we're going to put ships here and we're going to put missiles here and we're going to go to cuba next thing there's a missile crisis if you think about it half of the issues we have in the world are because leaders like people right at the top aren't able to understand how pettiness and a race of pettiness doesn't get you anywhere half Half of the time, it's because they don't feel respected.
Like Vladimir Putin, I'm telling you now, I'm telling you now, telling you now, I don't need any qualifications to say this. A part of the reason Vladimir Putin cannot negotiate with Zelensky is because Zelensky was a comedian on TV.
Like, you're Vladimir Putin, the ruler of what you consider as Vladimir Putin,

one of the greatest countries and empires of all time.

And then someone's like,

hey, you should go and negotiate with Mr. Bean.

There's a level of pettiness in Putin

not being able to back down

because he doesn't want to seem like he's weak.

You know, the world literally is,

in many ways, where it is today because of pettiness Even judges by the way Even judges Think about how many people spend more time in jail Because of judges being petty Because the judge doesn't feel like the defendant Respected them enough Yo most of gang crime is petty You know what I mean He walked past wearing those colours And he went past doing that And then it's like pettiness we're dead josh we're dead in two years i think what trevor is speaking to is that maybe when you're petty you're acting out of your ego and ego is like a big issue i'm fully with you i'm fully with both of you but this is not the. This is my world.
And in the real world, a judge can be petty and send someone to prison for longer because they don't feel respected. But in my world, that same person that maybe felt like they didn't get a good enough sentence, that they were like, oh, that's a little unfair.
Judge isn't safe just because they're a judge. These systems that are in place in the real world are not in place in my world.
So now, now, now all this person has to do is do a little reading, learn what a board of ethics is, send that judge to the board of ethics, but I already did my time. So the judge has nothing on me anymore.
So now I just go after the judge for quite a while until until everything is settled in my stomach, you and then and the government goes behind yeah josh i feel like we're not here for a good time we're here for a short time yeah yeah and i i feel like i feel like this is literally the definition of an eye in an eye for an eye land what is it in the land where it's an eye for an eye Everyone is blind The whole world is blind But maybe we didn't deserve to see Alright Damn Well If you ever had the question What happens when you push Josh Johnson too far I think we got it I'm ready to vote Christiana I'm assuming you're ready to vote as well Okay I'm gonna vote first Josh and this may come as a surprise to you my answer is no Josh I will not vote for your petty backed um regime I'm sorry Josh um in terms of whether petty should be power Josh I'm very sorry I have to vote no you almost had me with the judge thing. But then our cult leader over here swayed me.
When he talks about the race to the bottom. I do worry.
I do worry. It's all good.
I will remember this. I know you will.
I'm sorry. I know you will.
I know you will. Just don't get me.

Just don't be toupee to me when you get me back. Oh, wow.

All right.

Well, that's two down.

One more to go.

I will let you know what mine is.

And it may surprise you.

We'll be right back after this. All right.
If I ruled the world, my favorite episode of the podcast, based on nothing, no facts, no research, no nada. It's just how we would rule the world if we were given the chance.
So Christiana right now has two votes for what I consider one of the best initiatives ever. Like, I feel like we should find a way to get this up to like the real levels of power.
It'll be tough, but we can do it. And then Josh Johnson came in came in with something that i think you know even the joker would be like it's a little intense it's a little uh it's a little extreme yeah he'd just be like damn josh why so crazy um so here's something i've been thinking about and it's it's not it not very big, but I think it would make a big difference.

If I ruled the world, it's a weird compoundy thing, but it's like if I ruled the world, I would say that customer service no longer has to involve friendliness. I'll explain to you where this has come to me from.

So I think we are living in a world Where many people have to You know they work in service jobs Or they work in jobs where they have to interact with other human beings And in that job they have to be competent And they have to be capable So you know you walk into a clothing store They have to know where the clothes are What the sizes are They have to know whether the fabric will shrink when you wash it they have to know what the fit is they they have to know

right um you you phone a call center and something's going wrong with your equipment at home

they have to know uh you know your equipment they have to know how to instruct you on disconnecting

connecting etc etc um on an airplane you know the person's bringing you food and they they have to

know when you buckle your seat or where your seat is or what the emergency people have to know

Thank you. et cetera.
On an airplane, you know, the person's bringing you food and they have to know when you buckle your seat or where your seat is or what the emergency, people have to know. But we also started saying that people also have to be friendly and like excessively friendly when doing these jobs.
I think this is causing a fatigue in the world that is making people like shells of themselves because they have to spend the whole day being like, hi, hello, hello, hi, how are you? Hello, hi. And I genuinely think this is probably like destroying relationships and friendships and marriages.
Because I think people are going home emotionally exhausted because they're spending all of their quote unquote happiness on strangers. And then then when they come home they're emotionally exhausted and i think this is actually destroying the social fabric of the world all these people who rate stuff on on like google i hate it when people will rate a restaurant and they'll be like one star the waitress was so mean Food was Food was great though.
Then I'm like, yeah, then shut up and eat the food. Like, what world do you live in? Like, I don't know about you, but I used to eat food at my friends' houses.
And yo, sometimes people's grandmothers weren't nice, but all that mattered was the food. You didn't get a hug with every bowl of food, but the food is what mattered.
And I think this attitude that people have of like, everyone wants to be treated like a mini king. Everybody wants to be like mini royalty.
I think it's trash. And I think it should be gone.
No more. No more friendliness with anything.
In fact, the meaner people are, in a weird way, not like assholes, but just like be like, just stoic. Just like, hey, can I get some food? Yeah, what do you want? There's a table, sit down there I'll come and help you when you're ready And that would be it And you're not allowed to fire people because they're like unfriendly Because sometimes you're just having a shitty day Okay Okay, so real quick And you know I think That this is really great I think, I've worked a lot of customer service jobs in life.
And I... Wait, you have? Yeah, man.
I worked at a restaurant for years. And then I've worked at grocery stores.
And I've also worked at... Well, the restaurant, I think...
But I thought you got fired after a week. No, no.
I was there for like six years. Six years? Yeah, yeah.
You've lived so many lives. You've lived so many lives.
Yeah. You really have.
And then I've worked at a few grocery stores. You met me at the tail end.
Okay. What were you doing at the grocery store? I do a little bit of everything.
So I was a cashier, but I was also sometimes the person who would walk around to find people looking lost. So then if you were looking at a label too long, I'd pop up and be like, can I help you? I love that person.
The only thing that was rough that I keep with me to this day is sometimes people would need help reaching. And then i couldn't reach and so that i had to go find somebody and that was rough that was like that that was the days where i'd be like i hate this job but then any other time i really enjoyed it so i like what you're saying trevor and and i i vibe with every part of it i guess except one one thing.
Because I am not necessarily the most stoic person. I feel pretty, like, by nature, affable and friendly.
So it would almost be work for me to be stoic when it comes to the service. I'm not saying you have to be.
I'm just saying, like, you can't. It's not part of the job at all.
Oh, okay. It is not part of the job.
Your attitude is not part of the job. Got you.
And I mean this in everything, but I even mean this in the office. Like, let's say your manager says to you, hey, Christiana, please, could you get these reports ready by Friday, 4 p.m.
And then you could be like, Friday, are you shitting me? This is so much work. God damn it.
And then you could like storm out the office. I go, you're allowed to do that.
Trevor, you're describing France. Yeah.
Maybe that's why I love it so much there. So what I do like about it is that I do feel like this is a socialist of me, that customer service representatives are not as paid as well as they should be and they absorb all the abuse the c-suite and the senior executives should get right so somebody calls you've been on a hold for like 40 minutes and then you speak to this person sometimes in your country sometimes in a foreign country and they are doing their best and you're shouting at them because the company policy is they you can't get a refund or your wi-fi is not coming back and they have to absorb all the abuse and they can't yep shout back because at the beginning of the call they say this call may be recorded so they have to be on their best behavior whereas you can abuse them as much as possible but we have this culture of like friendliness and the customer is always right.
And I do think in this capitalist hellscape, it's abuse. It's just a way for the consumer to abuse the workers.
So the socialist in me agrees that the workers should be able to speak up and say, you're wrong, piss off, right? You're also going to get rid of tipping, right? So recently I went to Brixton Village with my husband and we went to a restaurant and I was like, what's taking them so long? Like they hadn't even brought the menus and then they brought the menus and then it was like another 15 minutes before we could order. It was just terrible service.
And my husband said to me, you've been in America too long. This is typical service in England, right? Like, so I am now in a system where there is no tipping.
You know, people get paid what they earn at the end of their shift because they get paid hourly. There's universal healthcare.
Basically, there's no incentive to be polite, to be friendly, to be like, do, go above and beyond. And what you often get is just like mid-service that is my only thing and the friendliness I think the friendliness does but I play into it because like London is kind of a cynical and miserable city and it's because like we don't even have to pretend to be happy we just complain as the default and it's kind of bad when the people serving you are complaining as well i don't think that people being unfriendly means bad service i i think oftentimes there's a

correlation between the two so sometimes you'll be in a place where the people are being like

really mean or they're just being like dismissive or whatever and they serve you badly but i think

that's now a system that has broken down so it's fair that people draw the correlation they go

those people are assholes and the service is bad and then we just think it's all one thing

Thank you. But I think that's now a system that has broken down.
So it's fair that people draw the correlation. They go, those people are assholes and the service is bad.
And then we just think it's all one thing, right? However, if you break it up and you go like, somebody's running a business, how people are in that business is just about like their efficiency and their ability to do something. But now what we've done is, we've taken this away on every level.
And I genuinely mean this in like the biggest sense even in like politics right we rate our politicians by how friendly they are ah look at how friendly they were at the debate look at how charismatic they were during a speech i don't give a shit about your charisma what is your level of competence you know why i liked angela merkel from germany that woman was not to entertain you. She was not there to make you feel better about yourself.
She was not there to do some little dance to make you feel like you had picked the right person. She was there to be like, hey, I've crunched the numbers and this is what we need to do in Germany.
And this is the money that we are giving to Greece. And this is what the Euroblock needs to do.
And thank you very much for coming. Have a nice day or don't, whatever.
See you next time. And I like that.
I go like, I think we're creating a world where it's like the performance is becoming more important than the aptitude and in every field, that's making it worse. I want a politician who doesn't have to kiss babies.
It's creepy. It's weird.
You don't have to smile. You don't have to shake my hand.
Just make sure that the schools are good. Make sure that the roads are clean and make sure that people have access to healthcare.
And then I'm happy. You see, now it's like, all right, we're good.
Now I'm smiling. By the way, before I forget this, so this is something that I find fascinating.
You know that phrase, the customer is always right?

There's another version of the quote, which is, the customer is always right in matters of taste, which means they're not right. It was like, no, no, no.
Give the customer the benefit of the doubt. Assume that they are right.
Until it is evident that you are dealing with an idiot who does not know what they are talking about. Then the customer is not right, and you can tell them that you do not sell dildos because this here is a cooking store.
Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, this is something that I wish would have been in place when I worked at the restaurant because every once in a while, I would take someone's order, and I would bring them their order, and then they would say, this isn't what I ordered.
But I was listening, and I did write down what they were saying because I was never one of those people trying to impress people with memorizing oh no no no no never never that if you're a memory person I was gonna I was writing it down and I was writing it down not in shorthand because I didn't trust my shorthand I didn't trust the kitchen to read my shorthand so I wrote down the full menu item with the ingredients when I was like taking someone's order, which was annoying for them because then they had to repeat themselves two or three times. But I wrote it down plainly and then sent it to the kitchen, looked at it when I brought it out to them, right? And they'd be like, this is not what I ordered.
And then I have to figure out how not to embarrass this man in front of his family because it's very much what he ordered. There's actually – and it would always happen with something that was like unambiguous.
So it would never be like, oh, I ordered nachos, but I said no sour cream and there's sour cream on these nachos. It would always be like a completely different dish and we only have one of those dishes.
Like there's only one type of fried ice cream that we have. Fried ice cream.
And I brought you fried ice cream and then you're like, this isn't what I ordered. And I'm like, yeah, no, it's a fried ice cream.
He's like, yeah, but I said fried ice cream. And now I'm like, I don't know where to go from here.
You see, but this is what I mean. This is what I mean.
And I think like, look, look am i right i don't know but that that doesn't matter when i rule the world the point is i think it is not fair to expect people to like give their souls give their souls on behalf of these corporations and then go home drained you think about how your parents would come home from certain jobs and they're just like, I don't have the energy or the time for this. I don't, I just, I've just been like smiling at people all day.
My cheeks are sore. I'm sick of speaking to people.
Yeah, I get what you mean. You get what I'm saying? Yes, yes.
You get what I'm saying? But you know who always had time? My grandmother. My grandmother worked in a factory.
She didn't have to talk to anybody She didn't have to make small talk When my grandmother came home She was She had all the energy to talk She was tired in her hands And in her body But her mind was fresh Because she didn't have to have any small talk No nothing And that woman's love poured into me As opposed to her dripping it into ungrateful customers and random people that have been like propped in front of her because of a corporation. And that woman was able to love me with all of her heart because it wasn't wasted on stupid customer service.
She made the garments. She sent the garments out.
And I think because of that, I'm the man I am today. That is a very emotionally manipulative argument, argument i will say my grandmother loved me better because she didn't have to be friendly i'm like how can i argue with that um i mean this is i mean you can like when i moved to america i remember having like a baseline level of suspicion about the general friendliness not just the friendliness you know you go into a store in america they're like hey how are you doing how you know i love your shoes i love it you know you're just like and i was yes yes it was very hurtful impression it'd be very uncomfortable for me because i'm like look i just want to buy my ting and leave like i don't i don't want anything more than that um and now being used to that especially now living in california where even i've saw someone make a tiktok that like the white people in california like like black people and it's very weird for them because they're used to the south they're like even the white people are friendly they're like oh i love you here where do you get your brains done you're like wait you know too much like when you come from somewhere like california here where it's like feels like not the other extreme but the other extreme, but Londoners are friendly if they know you and they're distant if they don't know you.
We're just very much like, allow me, leave me alone. Yes.
I'm like, I think there is a balance in between, especially in cities where it's like atomized and lonely. I know for some people that interaction in a store or sometimes with a customer service rep with the barista at the coffee shop that is that's the only real real human interaction some people get let's be real do you know what i mean and i'm like if we come from a place where like no good faith both sides have to be friendly because i think trevor your objection is that like we put all the burden on the customer service rep and then the other party can treat you anyway.
But I'm like, if we have this expectation of just like, yes, politeness, it doesn't have to be friendly, just decent politeness. And some people are going to be more gregarious than others.
I can rock with that because I'm like, why are we so mean to each other? Why are we all so silent? Or why when you go into a shop, you have to ask for help. people with social anxiety Like Josh are like Okay I'm not going to ask for help I'm just going to leave And order it online You know what I mean? Sorry Josh But you know what I mean So it's just like Trevor I get what you're saying But I feel that With a modification I could vote for it That's my point Okay let me throw one last thing in here one last thing i love that you said politeness part of what i am pitching here is a great equalization of how we perceive people's ability to do something because we are no longer making it about how they act in relation to the culture that we were raised in and that's part of the problem that i have with the system that we have is you go to a store or you let's say restaurants most restaurants that are ranked badly that are ethnic and what i mean by ethnic is they are not the restaurant of like the hegemony of the place they're in so it's a jamaican restaurant in london or it's a you know whatever indian restaurant in new york or whatever sometimes those restaurants are getting worse reviews because the people who go to those restaurants expect those people to act like their culture acts and then they go you people are impolite and then it's like no they're just a different culture do you know what i'm saying they don't they're not going to ask you your life story because that in their culture that might be rude it might be invasive you're coming here to eat and that's that and then they go i don't like the service i think those people really rude it's like no they were a different culture and so for me if you couldn't i don't like how sometimes people in the majority can like bully somebody else in a way to be their culture to be deemed um capable in the job when when the person is able to do the job it's like yeah you know what like i remember when i went to russia for instance when i was in russia and i was in ukraine this is obviously way back people were competent you go to a restaurant they bring you your food you you ask for something it is done there were no smiles i don't remember a single a single when i tell you a single server in a restaurant no one smiled i was smiling at them and there were moments when they would look at me like i was crazy and then i was like actually i do seem crazy why am i just smiling hi could i please get and they were just like yeah you want to eat and then it's like menu english then they switch out the menu then they put it there and it's like which one do you want and you'd be like and then you i'll still try like i'll be like oh well what's your favorite then they're like i don't have favorite i work here what do you want and i was like and at first i went man these people are mean but then i went no i'm putting a burden on them to be like micro friends of mine and now i'm'm judging them.
But in their culture, they're doing the job. They're getting the thing done.
And so I think it's unfair that some people, whether it's taxi drivers, waiters, you know, airport stop, you name it, are being judged because they don't match up with the culture of the people who are complaining. So that's another reason I say we must just take it away.
Is the thing done? Is the thing done? Let me tell you the best experience I had recently guys This might have been like the genesis for this feeling Even though I've had it for a long But like voicing it I was I needed something done What was it? What was the person doing? Oh they were coming in to repair like an air conditioning unit Right? And The guy Arrived You know they give you the window The person will be there from this time to the person got there early so i was like i'm not there to let them in and so then the guy got on the phone with me and then he's like he's like hey man i hear a little bit early i'm here to fix the air conditioning and i was like yeah i'm not there what do we do then he's like he's like well what you you want you want to fix i can i can just go in and fix it and i was like all cool and he's like yeah don't don't the fix? I can just go in and fix it. And I was like, all right, cool.
And he's like, yeah, don't worry. Don't worry.
Let me go in. And then he goes in.
And then he calls me from inside. And he's like, hey, man, I'm supposed to talk to you while I do it.
But can I just fix it? And I was like, yeah, fix it. And then he's like, okay, I fix it.
And then he fixed it. And then when he was done, he's like, okay, it's fixed.
Bye. Call me if you need something.
Let me tell you something. That air conditioner blows.
It blows like there is only one reason for its existence And that is to keep me cool That man did his job He was one of the fastest Most efficient people I've ever met I don't know his family story He didn't make me feel good But he did the job And I was like If this was the world I think everyone would be happier Because they wouldn't be fake smiling Josh wouldn't be fighting with you about fried ice cream and then christiana people wouldn't be judging you because you're from a different culture but trevor this is my thing as a nigerian and we are like at a baseline just like rude people and it's something i'm working on i probably need to go to therapy for it because i realized that like i'm a rude bitch right and a big part of the issue is I'm Nigerian And it's a culture where like Everyone is kind of rude Even our polite people are rude They'll be like, ah, shut up Like you just, you know, it's just We got the vim of like We're outspoken That is true And to everyone else it's rude And we are rude That's sound so it's just like, if you let all the Nigerians in the world know that there are no more constraints, guys, the world is going to burn. The world, your Nigerian customer service rep is going to cuss you out and say you're an idiot.
Learn how to use your modem and use Google Good night And drop the phone It's like Guys Come on Is that not the world We want to live in A world where Somebody is not just Giving you a fish But they are teaching you How to Imagine how great it would be If your parents Or somebody in your life Calls that tech support And that person Then he's like Have you Is it on Is it actually on right now how excuse me how can you call me if this thing is not are you stupid or something next time you are going to say something is not working first make sure that it is actually on are you stupid or something what is wrong with you don't call ah don't don't call for don't call for you know what this call is not being recorded because you are so stupid there should not be a recording of what you have said yeah's no more recording I think the world Would be a better place I think it would be A more fun place I do have a quick question Before I vote Right Have you considered The Christian already touched on this But have you considered The industries That this could Potentially ruin Because they are based On the home feeling And the friendliness in in in their inception so for instance like like i think a tour guide needs to have a certain amount of enthusiasm and energy for what they're talking about because yes the job is to take me around and tell me the facts but if they're just like a guy died there a guy died there a guy died there But you see that But you see that's different That's not Again You're mixing up Niceness and competence So I'm saying They can be enthusiastic They can love what they do But they don't have to like Ask you questions About like where you're from And engage with you I'm agreeing with you But I'm not saying They have to be boring Because I agree Part of being a tour guide is that you are generally engaging and you give information that people want to absorb so i do agree with you on that i'm just saying there are other elements of it i have a question i do agree with you yes are you like trying to is it the friendliness or is it the small talk that you don't like no no no no it's it's all all all types of friendliness like i think people should be allowed to be like I'm having a bad day Let's just walk around I'm gonna So that building there That's where Queen Elizabeth Used to live Yeah that's it I don't even know What do you say to that Josh? That's wild Okay Because I really do vibe with literally 98% of what you're saying. I just do think that there are some places, like hospitality in earnest, right? Like when they're like, why should you come to our hotel over the other hotel? Especially if they're the same price.
Because there's no bedbugs. The room is clean.
There's great room service. There's a good view.
Things are done in a timely manner. And that's that.
Even if it's the same price as another hotel. Have you ever been at, Josh, you and I, actually, Josh, you and I have been there.
We've been to hotels where they're smiling and they cannot find our reservation. And we're standing at the desk for like an hour.
And they're smiling the whole time. And they're smiling and they're like, you know what, guys, just give us a few, you know what, thank you so much for your pay.
for your but thank you so much no i don't need that just get me my room key and let's keep it moving and then you don't have to fake anything gotcha gotcha okay um i am going to i'm gonna vote yes for this world because i do think that the the pros outweigh cons. The only thing I would caution you as a world leader, if I humbly may, is that almost similar to my world, there will be a little bit of a race to the bottom in certain interactions because I personally think sometimes the politeness is what holds people over in a situation where they should be pissed off as a customer.
And I think that if someone just tells you, hey, the room's not ready. And you're like, but it's supposed to be ready.
Ah, but it's not. I think that that's going to piss people off so much more than like, my buddy, I'm sorry.
It should be right, but it's not. I think that literally that tone thing right there is the difference between people swinging on each other yeah okay so so is that a yes from you oh 100 yes okay trevor as a certified rubich who is working on it i do feel you i think it's a brilliant idea but i think we could all stand to be friendly and polite, even at work.
Wow. I know.
Christiana's going to vote on behalf of the corporations. I cannot believe this day has come.
I know. She's, yeah.
Wow. It's a no from me.
I'm sorry, Trevor. But I understand where you're coming from.
And I do believe, I agree with you on that. Okay, all right.
You know what? You don't have to be nice. I voted you know what you gave me the no you don't have to be nice i actually ended at that can i throw one thing out there i know votes are final and everything but one more thing that i didn't think up till just now that i don't even think trevor mentioned in his argument is that the way that we're starting to rely on ai for some of that customer service there's no no politeness.
It's actually what Trevor's talking about. Like a computer is like, oh yeah, I'll work on that thing.
Here's the solution or there's no solution. We'll touch on this another time.
It's actually more polite. So they've done studies.
Oh, really? Yeah, they asked people to rate AI's bedside manner versus actual doctor'sside manner and AI beat actual doctors by I think like 20 to 30 percentage points Jeez Yeah in terms of like bedside manner and making you feel AI actually is way more polite than people because AI doesn't have a family waiting at home for it And AI doesn't have bills that it needs to pay and ai isn't being stressed by all the shit that's going wrong in its life so ai can always be polite advocacy now this turned very quickly well you know what guys this was fun um uh wow josh uh you got zero votes but a very entertaining proposal, I will say that. I got one vote, and it was from my good friend Josh Johnson.
And then I was voted against by the corporate shill, Christiana. And then Christiana got two votes for her idea, which I'll be honest, I still think is brilliant.

Travel more.

And it would be great if, you know, it wasn't like whether you could afford it or not. It was just like, go seel.
Claire Slaughter is our producer. Music, mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown.

Thank you so much for listening.