No One Told Trevor He Was Hosting the Grammys [VIDEO]

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Speaker 2 This is What Now

Speaker 2 with Trevor Noah.

Speaker 2 How much time do we have with you? As much as you want to. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, yes.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I was like, fuck it, let's go.

Speaker 2 Do you want to start with the Kanye or should we move it up?

Speaker 3 Actually, I wanted to show you what I'm wearing underneath here.

Speaker 2 Can you imagine?

Speaker 3 That would have been really funny if I'd turned up in like a fur coat and nothing underneath. It would have been a bit of a weird joke.

Speaker 2 Actually, I actually do want to start with the Kanye. So

Speaker 2 as the executive producer of the Grammys,

Speaker 2 do you, like, are you happy or are you pissed? Or is there another emotion that comes with seeing Kanye West like pop up on the Grammys' red carpets when he wasn't supposed to be there?

Speaker 2 Like, is there like a thing that, no, because

Speaker 2 on one hand, it's good for the show in in a way, because everyone's like, oh, shit, what's going to happen? Oh, and then on the other hand, it's like you have a pre-planned thing.

Speaker 2 Like, what's your first emotion when that happens?

Speaker 3 Genuinely, honestly. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I couldn't carry either way. Like,

Speaker 3 I was like, I think he's, like, he's not for me.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so, like,

Speaker 3 I was just like, oh, it's, you know, it's just what he does, right?

Speaker 2 He, he,

Speaker 3 but I genuinely didn't think about it.

Speaker 3 The truth of it is, during that red carpet, you know, like, I am, that is, that is the most stressful period of like my year that that one hour that like that 90 minutes

Speaker 3 that's the 90 minutes where you finish a dress rehearsal which went terribly yeah and you finish that at like 240 and then the show goes live at five it's like that Lawn Michaels thing he's always says it doesn't matter when you're ready the show goes live at five and it is what it is so like there was a thing about Kanye I genuinely didn't even see it till after the show honestly i didn't wow like i i knew there was a thing and i knew he'd done like a stunt with his wife and i I was like, oh,

Speaker 3 is the cameras going to work? Is the comms going to work? Is the show going to work? Like that's all I, genuinely, that's what I was thinking about at that time. I was very in the zone.

Speaker 3 So I wasn't distracted. But I knew he wasn't coming to the main show.
How did you know that? Because

Speaker 3 I'd heard that he was just coming to the red carpet and then leaving and he didn't have a...

Speaker 3 I'm in charge of the floor plan. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 So that's what got me because I know where everyone's going to be sitting. And I didn't see Kanye.
Then for a moment, I thought you didn't tell me Kanye was coming because you wanted to surprise me.

Speaker 3 I don't know if anyone knew Kanye was coming, but I think I did, but there was no truth, genuinely no truth to him being kicked out. That's just not true.

Speaker 3 He went and did the carpet, and as far as I understand it, he then got in a car and left.

Speaker 2 Huh.

Speaker 2 Did he tell people he was coming? I don't know.

Speaker 3 Genuinely, I don't know. You'd have to ask the academy.

Speaker 2 I suppose in theory, there's no way to stop him from coming. So if he came as Jay-Z's guest.

Speaker 3 But he was nominated, for example, right?

Speaker 2 Was he nominated? Yeah, if he comes as Jay-Z's guest, Ben can't then say, hey, dude, you're not welcome here.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 If you're a plus plus one that's true that's a very good point because i never know the plus ones so you know that like yeah madison beer is sat over here she may just be bringing you

Speaker 3 a little uzi right so it could have been yeah but you said that but then but then people you're right you don't know and people show up with famous people and then suddenly they're on camera like you didn't know they were coming and it's like oh they're there with you know, whoever.

Speaker 2 I think this was the most dramatic red cockpit we've had at the Grammys,

Speaker 2 like in the years that we've done it together.

Speaker 2 Because we, like, this was the year where Kanye steps onto the Grammy. Then immediately, people were, there's every opinion, right? So, some people were going, How can the Grammys allow this?

Speaker 2 There are children there. Now, there's a naked woman on the red carpet.
My children, there's always the children. I'm always like, there's, you know, the children are there.

Speaker 2 The children, the children. So, that's what the people were saying.
And then, um, I don't know if you saw any of these actually because you're so wrapped up in the show. Yeah, I see.

Speaker 2 But then there was afterwards. Yeah, yeah, then there was the babyface.

Speaker 2 Did Did you see that, Bryce? I did see that. Yeah, the two AP reporters or whatever they were were interviewing people.
Yeah, they're interviewing babyface. Mid conversation.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 They're just like, ah.

Speaker 2 You know what?

Speaker 3 I only actually saw that well afterwards because Chloe Kardashian tweeted about it. She posted the video going, Babyface is a legend.
How dare you?

Speaker 3 And the first thing I thought is, and Babyface is a mate of mine. Like, I love Babyface.
Like, he's like, not only is he a legend and an icon and a music official, he's also one of the nicest men.

Speaker 3 He actually is. No, he's genuinely.

Speaker 2 Even how he handled that wasn't.

Speaker 2 Oh my God.

Speaker 3 He's full of love and praise. I love being around him.
Like

Speaker 3 I find him an inspiring dude just from his manner.

Speaker 3 But I felt sorry for those reporters. I actually did because

Speaker 3 it's like the culture that we're in right now where like they

Speaker 3 they're red carpet reporters on AP. They're not Trevor Noah hosting the Grammys.
They don't have 10,000 hours of experience. They're on a thing.

Speaker 3 They probably don't know the story and the history of Baby Face's to music. And then Chappell Rone, who is one of the biggest stars,

Speaker 3 they know Chappell Rone better than they'd ever know Babyface.

Speaker 2 And they're like, oh, don't.

Speaker 3 And they know that they're going to get more bang for their bug there. I'm not being disrespectful to Babyface.

Speaker 2 Of course, they handle it badly, but I hate why he said that. But I think it's also why he said, do you want that? Like, he looks so sweet.
That man has been in the game since when?

Speaker 2 He knows every red carpet. He knows every, he knows what the game is about.
So he, to your point, he didn't even,

Speaker 2 he had no ego in the way he did it. He was like, oh, Oh, you guys need that, don't you? Yeah, and he's like, I'm on my way.
He's like, I stopped to talk to you because you need this.

Speaker 2 And now he's like, I get that you need that. But you could, I think what it was is this.
He doesn't need it. No, he doesn't.
So he wasn't offended in any way. And he was like, oh, whatever.

Speaker 2 He's like, I don't need this. I agree.

Speaker 3 I just wish people didn't immediately go out to find who those two girls are. And then let's just make their life miserable.

Speaker 2 You just wish the internet doesn't exist. Yeah, I guess.
Well, in all fairness, I do need a certain, I think there's like a certain amount of accountability that they need to be held to.

Speaker 2 It's a red carpet.

Speaker 3 No one ever needed to see it. No one would have known about it.
Why does everyone need to be so offended all the time?

Speaker 2 No, but

Speaker 2 on his behalf, I see why people are offended. But if he wasn't, he said straight afterwards, he said, I didn't care less.

Speaker 3 He'd be embarrassed by this whole thing.

Speaker 2 Yes. I think it's a tough lesson for them to, like, the way they're learning the lesson.
If they had a good producer, someone would just say, like, don't do it like that again.

Speaker 2 Next time, rope the person in. Oh, my God, it's Chapel Roan.
Babyface, do you know Chapel Roan? Oh, Chapel, have you ever... Man, oh, legend, old school legend, new school.
Oh, man. Chapel, you

Speaker 2 have to, you have to work with baby. You two should do a thing.
And then you get those magic moments as well on the copper where it's like now you've got babyface and chapel roan.

Speaker 2 Whoever saw that coming. And then she might go, I'm a huge fan of this song.
And he's like, what? I didn't know.

Speaker 2 She's like, yeah, the way you remix that, the thing you do with Mariah Carey on that song. Oh, it inspired me to sing.
That could have been a moment.

Speaker 3 That's why they're paying the big bucks. But this is.
We saw a lesson in hosting that.

Speaker 2 We saw a lesson in.

Speaker 3 I thought I was coming to what now?

Speaker 2 I'm actually coming to masterclass.

Speaker 3 I'm coming to masterclass with Trevor.

Speaker 2 I'm not sure This guy, I can't even.

Speaker 2 I was going to say, this is actually the issue, though, with a lot of the, I'll say podcast culture or the people that end up broadcasting without putting in the 10,000 hours, right?

Speaker 2 Because back in the day, if you ended up with any kind of a platform, you would have done things like a small television station or whatever it is. That's actually true.

Speaker 2 So you get to the point where you know how to deal with the red carpet moments, which is largely unscripted. Anything happens.

Speaker 2 Now, what you end up with is people that obviously have a very very strong following but they haven't got the experience behind them to be able to know to do something like that sorry i'm sorry i'm confused we're talking about two girls who are hosting for ap live on a red carpet at the grammar's yeah that's not they're not hosting the oscars here no but i get but caesar's right though no no no this is their experience no but caesar no but here's where caesar's right back in the day you couldn't even get to the ap hosting on the red carpet without having like no no really you know what you know where you see this actually is with stand-up comedy now today right there are comedy clubs around the country, like the US particularly, and some in the world, where they've started hiring people who are funny on TikTok.

Speaker 2 And then they come to the comedy club, their fans come, they pack it up, and then 10 minutes in, everyone realizes no one was prepared for this moment.

Speaker 2 Like the TikTok comedian doesn't know how to make the people laugh or doesn't know how to shift with the room. The room doesn't know what to do.
And then club owners started booking backup acts.

Speaker 2 for the TikTok stars because they knew that red carpet thing would happen to them in the clubs. So I hear what you're saying, but I also get what you're saying.
It's fair.

Speaker 2 It's not like they shot babyface, is what I'm saying. No, no, no, let's be honest.

Speaker 2 We're also making it seem like what they did, we made it seem like, like, there were some people online who were like, babyface, you, I can't believe all the work.

Speaker 2 They made it seem like babyface like dragged himself down the carpet. Yeah.
Still bleeding from the wound they'd inflicted upon him.

Speaker 3 It's difficult and it's difficult on live. And it's like, oh.
And I got it. They knew that they were going to get more hits if they managed to get Chappelle than, and Chappelle's not hanging around.

Speaker 3 Chappell's not going to go. And I don't mean anything about Chappelle, but she's not going to go.
Oh, I'll sit here for six minutes until she's finished with babyface.

Speaker 3 She's on, and you've either got to get her or you don't. So I get it.
But you're right. The way they should have done it would be the collapse.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think this is like a swag that, to your point, would come from experience.

Speaker 2 I wonder what would have happened if Kanye came in. I'm not going to lie.
I kept on wondering what would have happened. Inside the venue? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Nothing would have

Speaker 2 done something. No, what I mean is.
Most likely he would have done something. So you think he would have come on stage? 100%.

Speaker 2 And I'll tell you why.

Speaker 2 Whenever there's been a big moment and Kanye knows that he can seize it, he will.

Speaker 2 Funny enough, MTV Awards. I don't even know what year it was when he stepped on stage and Justice versus Simeon won the video for video of the year.
Yeah. And he had

Speaker 2 what's that?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, yeah. Anyway, that video.
He had that video nominated. He steps on stage and he goes, man, this video cost a million dollars, fam.
I had Nia long in this.

Speaker 2 So whenever there's a moment that he can seize for attention,

Speaker 2 yeah. Now, obviously, there was a long time ago.
Maybe he's a different man now. Well, I don't think so.
He like sees the red carpets.

Speaker 3 Yes. How would you have coked if he was in the room?

Speaker 3 How would you have felt honestly if he was in the room, knowing that he was there, knowing that there's an unpredictability around you at those tables? Because you're vulnerable.

Speaker 2 Okay, because you're not most hosts are on a stage.

Speaker 3 Yes. They're away from people.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they're not amongst the people.

Speaker 3 You are right in a place.

Speaker 2 Okay, so

Speaker 2 one, he's very unpredictable, but I have met Kanye and post me and Kanye having a thing. And can I tell you, he was very sweet, he was very nice, he had a cordial conversation.

Speaker 2 And one of the things about Kanye that I think a lot of people don't know is even when he has his like, you know, when he, when he spins and when he's going through something, whatever it might be, bipolar or not, Kanye West loves comedy.

Speaker 2 Like loves comedy and loves telling jokes. And if you listen to his raps, you know how much he loves telling jokes.
He's got some of the best punchlines in his raps.

Speaker 2 But when he tweets them, I think a lot of them don't come off well. And comedy, as we all know, you miss.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? Comedy is about misses. So, so the first part I'll say is this.
I wouldn't be afraid, but I would be worried for the show and what's going to happen.

Speaker 2 Because now, is Kanye going to go up when Taylor's up again now?

Speaker 2 Is Kanye going to, because now I'm the person who's in the room. And then now I go,

Speaker 2 you know, you don't want Kanye's getting tackled by a security guard, but you also don't want to be the security guard. So I don't know what what it would be.

Speaker 2 I think I would have, and then on a night when we're there and half the room, I would say even three quarters of the room, has like a strange, morose feeling to them,

Speaker 2 that's not the night you want unpredictability. Yeah.
Do you know what I mean? Because I don't know about you, but like this, this Grammys emotionally was the hardest Grammys I've ever done.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, for sure. Look,

Speaker 3 the Kanye thing is, look, for me, I would have,

Speaker 3 I would have done everything we can.

Speaker 2 I don't don't know. Would you have cut to him or cut away from him?

Speaker 3 I'm not going to talk on him and the Grammys either way. Luckily, I didn't even know about it because I was too busy.
But

Speaker 3 I'm not going to go out of my way going, oh, let's clear a table.

Speaker 2 Let's get rid of one of the nominees in the jazz category to give Ye a table.

Speaker 3 But it's up to the Academy anyway, it's nothing to do with me.

Speaker 2 I think people would have been stressed in the room.

Speaker 3 But it was, but moving from that, it was a

Speaker 3 very different atmosphere because people didn't know how they were supposed to feel. And it was a really weird one because everybody's there

Speaker 3 and you won them over in a big way, and so did the show. And I feel really good about that.
And the response that we've had from it, I don't know if you read reviews, but like, so the

Speaker 3 Vanity Fair Variety, Hollywood Reporter, also, without question, best Grammys of all time. Like, they're really going wild of it.
And I do think that's because you got the balance really well.

Speaker 2 No, I, but it was

Speaker 3 incredibly tricky for sure because people don't know whether is this supposed to be a sad event? Is it a happy event? Are we dancing or are we crying? Are we giving or are we taking?

Speaker 3 Like, and it was very, it was a weird dance for you to have to do.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but I think,

Speaker 2 but I think for all of us. So, okay, like to your point,

Speaker 2 we, you know, everything is happening in relation to everything else. That's life, right? So now you're in Los Angeles

Speaker 2 where everyone, you forget six degrees of separation. Everyone either lost a home or knows someone who lost a home.
So it's as simple as that.

Speaker 2 You just start with that, right? So you've got the room full of people.

Speaker 2 But now what I realized as the night was going was we're also in a moment where the majority of the people in that room are also feeling a certain kind of way.

Speaker 2 So Lady Gaga, if it was any other year, would have just been like, fun times. Thank you very much.
And then Lady Gaga goes, yo, trans people are not invisible.

Speaker 2 Then you're like, oh shit, yes, Trump said the thing. And this is on Gaga's mind.
And she, you know, and then you think that's done. And then Chapel Roan comes up.
She wins the award.

Speaker 2 She doesn't just go like, what a good time. I love life.
Wow,

Speaker 2 I'm a new artist. I'm the best.

Speaker 2 No, she goes, let me tell you how shit it is being an artist who doesn't make money and what actually happens on the other side or the, you know, before the precursor to success.

Speaker 2 You can't afford anything. You don't know what your life's going to be.
And you don't have healthcare. And if you don't have healthcare in America, you're screwed.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 So now in a way, she's touching on like the Luigi Mangione of it all. And people are like, oh, yeah, healthcare.
We're screwed in this country.

Speaker 3 And then Alaysia with DER.

Speaker 2 Yeah, then Dochi gets on.

Speaker 2 And then Dochi goes, it's a celebratory thing, but then Dochi gives you a reminder.

Speaker 2 She's like, yo, if you're a dark-skinned black woman, you are seen as as aggressive you are seen as wrong you are seen as loud and you so again people are cheering but they're like oh yeah shit what a and then Alicia Keys comes on and she goes hey we do need diversity we want everyone in the same room we want people together we want to create so you realize that everyone walked into a room with something on their minds other than awards and music which is rare for the awards and music like The last time I think this probably happened was maybe when Kobe died, right?

Speaker 2 And we weren't doing the Grammys that that time, but it was like literally night before the Grammys or the day of or something.

Speaker 3 It's like no, I was actually, I was funnily enough involved in that.

Speaker 2 You were involved in that one?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so I had been given the job that I have now. I was given the job as executive producer of the Grammys.

Speaker 3 But what I said is, I

Speaker 3 wanted to go for a year and not be number one. So I went and

Speaker 3 I was a producer on that show, essentially being like the number two on it, shadowing Ken Ehrlich, who was the producer, because I wanted to know how to do it. Because that's a beast of a show.

Speaker 3 And also, you can't just get the the job and your first time being the producer of it is being the like showrunner of it yeah that makes sense so I went for two years I did the Alicia Keys one because they had penciled me and they knew that I was going to be it so okay I mean listen if somebody says oh you're going to go and like help out the producers at the Grammys and you're taking this thing over you're going to go so it was the morning of it was just before the dress run started it was 10 o'clock in the morning we heard and I went into Alicia's dressing room and I sat with her and I said listen just so you know we just heard the news that Kobe's died And she was totally shocked.

Speaker 3 And I think she had the idea that we should go and find boys to men and see it because they were in the building for some reason. Maybe they were nominated or whatever.

Speaker 3 And so we had that idea. And then I had the idea to black out all the other shirts.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Because you know, in the rafter, in the rafters.

Speaker 3 And so we did a shot of that. But it was Ken Ehrlich was executor, but I was there that day.
But you're right. It was one of the...

Speaker 3 But it seems like with the Grammys, well before our time, Whitney dies.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they call it the Grammys curse.

Speaker 3 I mean, Whitney dies and then it happens.

Speaker 3 We've had Kobe in the house that he built at Staple Center. Obviously, we did two during COVID.
Then we had the fires this time. It's always a lot to handle.
Yeah. It's always a lot to handle.

Speaker 3 But then you're used to that in a way because you went on television every night with the daily show and you would have a script that would be funny and then you'd have to chuck it out because there'd be a shooting somewhere.

Speaker 3 So didn't that give you the like the experience of doing that? Or do you just think it's so different because it's a one-off event like that?

Speaker 2 Okay, so it's similar in some ways

Speaker 2 and then in other ways it's it's it's a lot harder and a lot different.

Speaker 2 And I'll tell you, I'll tell you. Let's take a break and then right after that, I'll explain what I mean.

Speaker 2 We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break.

Speaker 2 Doing the daily show,

Speaker 2 and you understand this feeling because you were doing the late, late show with Corden. I was.

Speaker 2 One of the worst days, not just for the show, but for people, was whenever there was a mass tragedy, which would unfortunately happen all too often in America.

Speaker 2 So it would be mass shooting, mass shooting, mass shooting. This happened.
You know what? It was always something like that.

Speaker 2 And those days were tough. However, the Grammys is exponentially tougher because everyone coming to the daily show was coming to engage in Trevor Noah's opinion.

Speaker 2 of the world or the show's processing of the world with the correspondents and everyone else.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 it was like, in a weird way, it's like we're all coming to the same church. We all have the same religion and now we're just going to process what has happened to us as people, right?

Speaker 2 And this year, like I realized it more than most years.

Speaker 2 The Grammys is the perfect coming together of strangers and it's something we don't have in society anymore, right?

Speaker 2 You have someone walking to the building. who lives in Miami full-time.
They're only here because their record label or their company brought them or, but they live in Miami.

Speaker 2 You've got someone who comes from London. You've got somebody who comes in from Finland and they're like an engineer and they're phenomenal, but like nobody knows them except in the music industry.

Speaker 2 You got people from New York, you got people from everyone. Nashville has a whole.
Yeah, Nashville has a whole contingency, right?

Speaker 2 But then you even break it up amongst like genres and ideas. You know, there's a joke, you saw the joke I made at the top when I go like, must dude.

Speaker 2 And then I was like, ask your black friends. Because I know the whole chunk of the room is like, what was that?

Speaker 2 Like, what, what was that? What is happening here? Yeah.

Speaker 2 And its difficulty is, I think, the thing that makes it beautiful.

Speaker 2 It's like, it comes with a precariousness, but I also enjoy the fact that somebody who only listens to hip-hop is now going to hear a country artist for the first time.

Speaker 2 Somebody who only listens to pop is going to hear a rock artist for the first time. Somebody, I think there's a greater cross-pollination of fans in music.
at the Grammys than in any other instance.

Speaker 2 Because when else are you forced, in a good way, to engage in somebody else's ideas?

Speaker 2 Now, for me as the host, it becomes extra hard because comedy is extremely subjective and comedy is like people also have to come for comedy.

Speaker 2 Some people have come to the Grammys or they're even like watching on TV and then they're like, yeah, get done with this.

Speaker 2 I'm here for Beyoncé. Who is this guy? Yabba, Yaba, Yabba, Yaba.
Come on, come on, come on, come on.

Speaker 2 And I know this. I know this as well.
You know, that's the job of the host. You're like moving things along, right?

Speaker 2 But it becomes harder because

Speaker 2 it's not a funeral, but there's been huge devastation. It's not a comedy show, but people do want to laugh.

Speaker 2 You know, it's an award show, but it's also a somber night in many ways. It's all these things are happening,

Speaker 2 so it's much harder. Because with the daily show, at the end of the day, I would go, you're at the daily show.
I'm at the daily show. Welcome to the daily show.

Speaker 3 And it's about the daily show.

Speaker 2 Let me tell you when I knew how different the Grammys was. This isn't like a long ago story.
Four or five weeks ago, I was in a restaurant in New York, I was having like lunch or something.

Speaker 2 And the manager of the restaurant walked over and went, Hey, Trevor, congratulations on hosting the Grammys. What an amazing, wow, this is going to be great for you and your career.

Speaker 2 I was like, Thank you. And he's like, Man, are you nervous? Like doing this for the first time? It's going to be crazy.

Speaker 2 And I paused and I was like, and then the person I was having the lunch with,

Speaker 2 very sweet, but he leaned and he's like, What? It's not his first time. It's his second time.

Speaker 2 And that's what I realized that like, and not even realize, I've always known this. The Grammys is not about me, nor am I, you know me.
I'm not trying to make it about me.

Speaker 2 I'm trying to keep the show moving and I'm trying to stitch things together. But there are people who are coming for their person.
And if their person's not there, they're not coming. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So they're a fan of this artist. If the artist is not there, they're not watching.
You know? And so I am just this random person who pops into people's lives

Speaker 2 and tries to stitch stitch together an incoherent group of people that you, in my opinion, and I'll say this to you before we forget, masterfully put it together.

Speaker 2 I've been to five Grammys now. Let me tell you something, Ben.
The way you stitch, like just like the best new artists,

Speaker 2 you know, everyone going from Benson Boone, you know, going over to Dochi, going over to Teddy Swims, going over to Ray,

Speaker 2 yo,

Speaker 2 like even that is that, that's hard because it's all different people doing different things and yet you created a cohesive vibe. That that's that's what keeps bringing me back to the Grammys.

Speaker 3 Well, a couple of things. Firstly,

Speaker 3 it's really funny that you say that because when you say about the show and how difficult it is for you going, or people are here for different reasons, I think about that in the way I program the show all the time because I'm perfectly aware that like Auntie Marilyn in Nebraska does not want to watch Dochi.

Speaker 3 And in the same way that like someone who loves Dochi is not interested in Lainey wilson it's like so that's partly why we've done as much as we can to like make the show something for everybody

Speaker 3 i would like the videos that we explain who everybody is but i would really try to tell story i would even interject and say it's not that they don't want to they don't know that they don't know it yeah you but we try and make it like a show that everybody will enjoy from beginning to end i think you under

Speaker 3 i think you undermine not undermine that's the wrong word i think you underserve the purpose that you have in that show um and and like cordon i i got involved in the Grammys because of James Corden.

Speaker 3 So obviously, I was his, I am his partner, and I was his show runner for Late Late Show with Rob.

Speaker 2 Business partner, by the way, not married.

Speaker 3 Yeah, we're not married. We're not married.

Speaker 2 No, no, no. No, no, because

Speaker 2 people say words that mean other things all the time. And then somebody like, wow, James Corden's married to this guy? I didn't know.
I didn't know James Corden was even gay.

Speaker 2 And then there's a whole thing. And then it's like, it's like when Kendrick said,

Speaker 2 when Kendrick said, my aunt transitioned a few days ago.

Speaker 2 And then I could feel the room go, wait, Kendrick's aunt just transitioned. And then most of the black people were like, We know what he meant, he meant passed away.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but then I saw a lot of white people be like, He's got my uncle. What, yeah, literally, like, so

Speaker 2 he actually does, funnily enough. Yeah,

Speaker 2 it was very confusing. So, I just wanted to throw that in.

Speaker 3 Yes, I do love him, but he's not my lover. Yes, um,

Speaker 3 so I only got involved in the Grammys because he got asked to host it. So, I went along to be his like host producer.

Speaker 3 And that's when the recording academy got to know me, and that's when like the CBS and the recording said, would you ever, Then he decided he wasn't going to do the Grammys anymore.

Speaker 3 Alicia Keys got appointed, and they said to me, Ken is, you know, however old he is. I think he was, you know, 70, odd, 80, or whatever.
They said, would you ever consider it? He'd run it 40 years.

Speaker 3 I was like, and that's how this all happened. But James always used to say, something I wonder if you feel.

Speaker 3 James always used to say the morning after the Grammys, and I'll never forget it. He always used to say, The thing I don't understand why I do this is if it goes badly, it's career suicide.

Speaker 3 You are, you are a joke, you are over, you are rubbish, You can never work again. It's a disaster.
If it goes well, you get 12 lovely emails.

Speaker 3 You get 12 lovely emails.

Speaker 3 He's like, why, why do I, I don't need 12 lovely emails. I don't, but like, he also did it for the buzz and the love of it and the excitement.

Speaker 3 And for you, I, I genuinely, the biggest panic I had this year was in regards to you. And I don't know if you know this.

Speaker 3 I genuinely could not have done the show this year without you. I couldn't have done it without you.
It was such a high wire act because loads of people said we shouldn't do the show.

Speaker 3 Like, loads of people were like, cancel the Grammys, do better.

Speaker 2 Like, what's her name?

Speaker 3 The amazing actress from Hacks, Jean Smart. Yeah.
She said, cancel all award shows and give the money to Fire Relief or whatever.

Speaker 3 It's like there was this real, like, and everyone was like, why are you doing this? It's not about people picking up gold statues and all this. So there was this huge attention on us.

Speaker 3 And everyone was going, you're cancelling it, right? You're canceling it. I really didn't want to cancel it for many reasons.
One, I thought we could do real good on the night.

Speaker 3 Two, I thought it's three and a half weeks away, and actually, like, well, we were deep in the fire, but it's three and a half weeks away.

Speaker 2 If the fires are still raging, but you, you had been evacuated from your own home, and you were still like, I think we can do the shot.

Speaker 3 I 100% wanted to do it more than ever.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 What people don't realize, and I'm going, I'm going to come back to the bit by you in a second, but what people don't realize and why I was annoyed, but I don't get annoyed much, you know.

Speaker 3 Yeah, no, you don't. When people were like, this should just cancel it, I was like, going,

Speaker 3 we did the math on this. 6,500 people,

Speaker 3 all from Los Angeles, in some ways take a wage from the Grammys happening. I'm not talking about Sabrina Carpenter and Chapel Roan.

Speaker 3 I'm talking about the people who build the stages, the caterers, the producers, the writers, the choreographers.

Speaker 2 That's how many, the drivers.

Speaker 3 It's insane. So all these people saying to, and a lot of them lost their houses, and a lot of them I know.

Speaker 3 And the worst thing I could do to them, the worst thing as the executive producer of the show, the single worst thing I could possibly do to any of those people is go, hey guys, because you guys are struggling right now and because

Speaker 3 you've lost your house

Speaker 3 and because you're having a really tough time, we've decided to take your wage away, okay, just to make things a bit easier for you so that you don't need to work right now, okay?

Speaker 3 I hope that makes you feel good. You know, we're really with you.
Heart's with you. I love LA.
What? Like, it was just, it just didn't understand.

Speaker 3 And then people were like, there was somebody from Nashville who was going to come to the show, big star.

Speaker 3 And they said, their agent called and they said, they don't want to take hotel rooms in la so we're no longer going to be doing it because we don't we think it's inappropriate to take hotel rooms i was like hotel rooms right now in los angeles the week of the grammys and actually that week which was three weeks ago we're at 32 capacity you know it's funny i said this to seize way so sizeway you flew in from we were in south africa

Speaker 2 because i mean we did the other podcast together a few episodes yeah like now basically a few weeks ago

Speaker 2 yeah we did the episode together then he flew and i said to him i was shocked i was like la is empty empty the airport is empty the flights coming in are empty the hotels are empty la is empty but people are like and then you said sorry to interrupt no no no you said to me you were like yo man la is down like you remember because you you said something about like how everything is you noticed coming in the flights were extremely cheap or relatively compared to what they would have been like this time last year for sure um and then as you say everything was fully available everything was available because the hotels were empty and so i've got an artist team from nashville when i live and love in i like love la

Speaker 2 yeah you i don't know i changed we can talk about that too but i can't get distracted let me go okay

Speaker 3 so like you know i feel very when something like like that happens you become you either go 2019 there was a fire in my garden it was getty center we were evacuated i thought everything was gone yeah it was fine my house but i was like get me home to london what the hell am i doing here in this place that can burn my house down i was like done this time i don't know why entirely different.

Speaker 3 Maybe it's because I've got two kids now and two, like two little Americans.

Speaker 3 Maybe it's just I've grown in to love this country, maybe it's I've just been here, it's my 11th year, but I just had this pride in our city.

Speaker 3 I was like, we're gonna, it was really, it was this like resilience and like love for it. It's why we started with I Levile A on the show, it's why we did all the like local businesses.

Speaker 3 It all came from that, like, heart of like what I feel like.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you had you had like a

Speaker 2 uncharacteristically,

Speaker 2 I say uncharacteristically because, like, I always find like English people are resilient, but there isn't like the same level of schmaltz. Yeah, yeah.
No, I know it is.

Speaker 2 I've got, but now you have like a no, I do, I love this place.

Speaker 2 You're like, my neighbors, and we're getting together, we got to meet this, and we got to give blankets to the people, and we got to, it's like, yeah,

Speaker 2 USA. That's what I'm winning.

Speaker 3 I'm not chanting USA, guys.

Speaker 2 A few more years.

Speaker 3 I've started to get to know my neighbours.

Speaker 2 Few more years.

Speaker 2 Yeah, four more years.

Speaker 2 Make the Grammys great again, guys.

Speaker 3 So then, when this artist said,

Speaker 3 no, we're not going to come,

Speaker 3 we don't want to come. And they weren't in the show anyway.
They hadn't confirmed, but I was hoping to get them. And they were like, no, we're going to keep the hotel rooms free.

Speaker 3 And it was the idea that people who have been evacuated,

Speaker 3 either they are not wealthy enough to stay in a hotel for more than two or three nights. You think they're staying at the London on Sunset Boulevard for like three months? Right.
Like these,

Speaker 3 they don't have any possessions anymore. Or they're wealthy enough enough to rent

Speaker 3 a place or move the money of the economics of a hotel will just never work right so so the hotels are empty everybody knows that in this town bars aren't being used valets that like the whole thing so that annoyed me so that's why i was like

Speaker 3 a friend of mine jeffrey i'm gonna i'm i hope he won't mind jeffrey katzenberg calls me literally while i'm evacuated and while everybody is going we don't know if the grammy should happen and me and harvey harvey mason jr who runs the recording academy who's employs me to produce the show we were both like we really think we can do something good on this show.

Speaker 3 And Jeffrey called me, and Jeffrey's like one of my favorite people in the world. And he called me and he said,

Speaker 3 Why don't we think about doing something on television with musicians for the fires? This was before Fire Aid had been announced in Irving's thing.

Speaker 3 He said, I really think that you'd be the right person to pull it together, get the artists. We could find a network.
We do the whole thing.

Speaker 3 And I said, literally, I was in our hotel room with all my bags around me. I said, Jeffrey, but to do that, you'd need X million dollars to put on an event.

Speaker 3 I've already got X million dollars on February the 2nd. It's the Grammys.

Speaker 3 You're also going to need a network to

Speaker 3 put it on. And I was like, I've already got that.
It's CBS. You'd also need people to watch it.
And that's hard, but it's called the Grammys. So people will watch it.

Speaker 3 And you'd also need to get Beyonce and Taylor and Billy and Gaga and Bruno and Olivia Rodriguez in a room. And I've already got that.
It's called the Grammys.

Speaker 3 I was like, why would we do something for that? Why not just make this that? And that's what we needed to do. And it was a crazy high-wire act for you to do.

Speaker 3 Because at the one time, you're going, please welcome Sabrina Carpenter. But the other time you're saying, go to this QR code and help these people.

Speaker 3 And I think it was an impossible job that you did unbelievably, unbelievably well.

Speaker 3 So much so that I want you to know something that I only found out about an hour ago.

Speaker 3 During the telecast, just during the telecast, there was donations of over $8.5 million. Altogether, it's been nine, just over nine.
It's 24 million for all the weekends events at the Grammys.

Speaker 3 But just during the telecast is 9 million. It's 8.5 million.

Speaker 3 What is fascinating about that that I literally just found out a minute ago in my office is the average donation of that was less than 50 bucks.

Speaker 3 So what happened was the biggest donation from people at home was a 30, then it was a 10, and then it was a 5. That's the three donations.

Speaker 3 Everything else was beneath that level. Which what that means is hundreds of thousands of people were watching the show and watching you go, there's a QR code.

Speaker 3 And they were donating five, 10, 20, enough that we raised 8 million just from those donations that's because you'll think if you raise 8 million that's a hundred grand

Speaker 3 of course you know like but that's not no corporate sponsors that's not including the artists that add up to that 24 it's just people at home and like that's because you

Speaker 3 successfully and i'm not just blowing smoke up your ass but like that's because you successfully and like seismically changed like people to do that, people to go up to their screen and get their phone and then type in a code rather than just watching TV and enjoying the Grammys.

Speaker 3 That's because you did it really well.

Speaker 3 And so it was a high wire act, but I knew that I needed you hugely because without you, it would have been impossible to get the excitement and the joy and allow somebody to stand there and win a Grammy to also have someone who loves and understands music.

Speaker 3 But fundamentally, to get the tone right so that we could go from I Love LA or the fireman coming on stage or the commercials for the businesses or all the other or the choir that sung with Stevie Wonder from Schools That Burnt Down, all those bits that we'd come up with.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you had to get us through them and at the same time make a joke about, I don't know, alligator bites. Right, right.
And that was needed. So, my biggest, I've talked for too long.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 No, what do you mean? This is the podcast. We have to talk about the Grammys.
You're the Grammys guy. What do you mean?

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 I freaked out.

Speaker 2 Do you not know this? I don't know anything.

Speaker 2 I'm waiting to hear it.

Speaker 3 All right. So

Speaker 3 it was the week of the fires, which was January the 7th or 8th. And me and Harvey are, and with Raj and Jesse, who also I should credit them, they're also execs on the show.

Speaker 3 We decide we're going to go ahead with the show. So we make this announcement we're going ahead with the show.
And I'm like, great, we're going ahead.

Speaker 3 And I start planning it and I'm start thinking of all these ideas. And I'm like, and then Trevor can do this.
And like,

Speaker 3 oh, and then Trevor could start like this. And then he could like unveil the photo of doors.
And I'm just thinking of all of it.

Speaker 3 And like, really, and I'm phoning all the artists because they all want to know that it's going to be okay. Yeah.

Speaker 3 They all want to know that they're not walking into like, so I went around each one, not each one one of them, not all of them, but like a lot of them like wanted a call to understand what we were doing.

Speaker 3 And I reassured them instantly and they could feel, oh, there's love here and like it's going to be okay.

Speaker 3 And it got to like the 12th of January or 13th of January. I don't know the exact dates, but it was like, you know,

Speaker 3 and Eric Cook, the co-EP who sort of runs the budget, comes into my office and he says,

Speaker 3 he says, when we still haven't got Trevor's contract signed, when are you announcing Trevor? And I went.

Speaker 2 I went, hold on.

Speaker 3 We haven't announced Trevor.

Speaker 2 And he's like, no.

Speaker 3 I was like, why haven't we announced Trevor? He's like, I don't know. We've never announced Trevor.
I was like, I had no idea we hadn't announced you as the host because

Speaker 3 you and I are, I would say, very close friends.

Speaker 2 And I just, we just assume we're doing it together, man. We're just, I don't even, so here's a funny thing about me, though.

Speaker 2 No, but here's a funny thing. I'm the opposite.
Caesar will even tell you this.

Speaker 2 I don't assume anything. So even when they ask me, are you doing the Grammys? I say, and it's the truth.
I go, they'll let me know if they want me. But until then,

Speaker 3 we did have a comp. No, but we don't even know what I mean.

Speaker 2 I don't know, but what about this with the fires? And I'm saying with all of that. So I'm still going like, hey, man, I don't.

Speaker 2 And this guy's known me. We're on like 20-something years now.
Caesar knows me. I take nothing for granted.
I always assume that I will be fired or can be fired. Anything in life can change.

Speaker 2 And I don't even have like, I'm like baby face with most things yeah you don't care I turn around and I go you are you're very well

Speaker 2 you walk ahead so for me I was just sitting in South Africa literally just being like man this is crazy is the Grammys happening or but I don't even assume that I'm doing it even though we've spoken because I know you might call me and say hey listen this year is different we're gonna do a different thing and so oh yeah I'm like okay but I have in my head designed an entire show yeah which I didn't know

Speaker 3 based with you at the helm right every element of it from like the Gen Z commercial joke I'd already got like a bit of that. Like the whole idea of like everything was with you in my head.

Speaker 3 It wasn't, it didn't cross my mind for a second. You weren't doing the show.
And then Eric went, well, no, we haven't announced him. So I was like, so I had this cold sweat come over my body.

Speaker 3 It was about, it was about like,

Speaker 3 no, it must have been really early in the morning because I remember. So then it was nine o'clock.
That's right. So I call you.

Speaker 3 Because I'm panicking a little bit and it goes straight to answer phone. Then I called Rachel Rush, who's your agent, and it rang.
Rachel Rush never doesn't pick up.

Speaker 2 No, it's insta-pick. It's instapic.

Speaker 3 She picks up instantly. And we've just announced we're definitely going ahead with the Grammys.
It rings and rings and rings. No text going, I'll call you back.

Speaker 2 So then I call, then I call your manager, Norm.

Speaker 2 Nothing.

Speaker 3 Literally nothing. No one picks up.

Speaker 2 Daughter's getting snubbed. I'm like, I am like heavy breathing.
So then I'm like, all right, I haven't got Rachel.

Speaker 3 I haven't got Trevor. I haven't got Norm.

Speaker 2 Derek will pick up. Derek will pick pick up.

Speaker 3 So then Derek,

Speaker 2 I ring him, nothing.

Speaker 3 Five minutes later, on Zoom, can I call back later in the day? That's far too formal for me, Derek.

Speaker 2 That is far too formal.

Speaker 2 Then Rachel Rush texts me and goes, Rachel Rush texts me.

Speaker 3 This is now like 9.45. Rachel Rush texts me going, sorry, sorry I had a missed call.
Been in meetings. We'll make sure we speak later in the day.
And I am like, so I try you again. I try you again.

Speaker 2 I'm like, oh my God,

Speaker 3 try you. Again, no answer.
These are four people who I know your listeners wouldn't necessarily know, but four people who pick up my call and like are friends among them.

Speaker 2 And what's funny is what I'm experiencing just from, because I don't know anyone else's story, but for me, when this was all happening, I was in South Africa and I specifically decided that I'm going to take some time away from digital devices.

Speaker 2 And I like made a whole thing.

Speaker 2 Then I wrote to one of my friends.

Speaker 2 I said to one of my friends, I was like, hey,

Speaker 2 I think I'm going to to send this out as sort of an out-of-office to everyone, just to be like, hey, I'm staying away from my phone.

Speaker 2 Then he was like, calm down. He's like, you're not a doctor.
You're not a lawyer. Nobody needs you like that.
Dude.

Speaker 2 And then he said, if someone needs to get a hold of you, they'll find you through your people. So relax.
So I was like, all right. Literally, my phone for maybe 10 days was just

Speaker 2 maybe look in the morning, maybe look at night. And that was it.

Speaker 3 Well, I was having an utter freak. I'm sorry, my friend.

Speaker 3 So I'm also going. All four of them are on a Zoom right now.
It's nine in the morning.

Speaker 3 They've read the announcement that we're going ahead and they are discussing how Trevor thinks it's not a good idea. And I'm also annoyed at myself, genuinely annoyed at myself.

Speaker 3 And it was bad producing. I did, I made an,

Speaker 3 I made a genuine mistake. Being serious, I actually learned from this and you don't even know about it.

Speaker 3 In my head, I think of us as kind of a unit. Like I, in a lovely way, I'm with you.
In that, like, I just thought, oh, Trevor will be fine with all of this. Right.

Speaker 2 And it's great.

Speaker 3 And I was so annoyed at myself that we had made an announcement, not with your name in it, that the Grammys was happening and i hadn't picked up the phone to you and gone do you think that's all right is that okay with you will you still do it because if you had said i don't want to do it i don't think i would have gone ahead and i i we might have gone ahead i'm not saying you're bigger than the grammar but i would have said harvey i need to find a host that can manage what we're about to do before we go ahead i can't we can't announce we're doing it until i know who's going to be the voice of like our ideas and our vision and whatever and i was so angry at myself because it's a real bulldrop for me and i and as you'll know i'm like quite

Speaker 2 i had no emotion so i'm sorry that you went through all of this so i called a meeting i was skipping through the grass yeah

Speaker 3 enjoying a mountain where the hell were norm derek and rachel so i called a meeting with my staff with patrick and and raj and we called in and they all knew it was about 10 30 that morning i said i've got i i've just got something in my stomach i have to share with all of you trevor's out i think trevor's no i swear to god the room it was the most morbid room everyone was like oh my god i was like I said I effed up.

Speaker 3 I was like, I didn't. I don't know what's happened.
I might be able to talk him back in. I was spiraling.
I don't know what was going on with me.

Speaker 2 I'm this. That's too out of character.
That was very out of character.

Speaker 3 But I was like, there was so much at stake for me. Okay, that makes sense.
I put my heart and soul into this Grammys.

Speaker 3 Partly because I love the Grammys now. I've just decided it's like, it's my baby now.
I've done it for five years and I love it. And I love the love it gets.

Speaker 3 And I love, I'm a proper music fan, so I love that. And I just like Telly and the challenge of it.
And I've, and the LA thing.

Speaker 3 And now LA is home and now fighting we can raise money yeah and I was like this is so idiotic of me to have a check anyway no one takes me back still it's now like 1130 and no one has called me so I know I'm screwed because no one's called me back and it's and it's like you've got to admit that does sound really good that does sound weird it's bad it's bad and I'm like and I and maybe they're annoyed I didn't check and whatever and I knew that like Norman had friends who'd lost houses and stuff and he was yeah so they were all probably like we shouldn't do the show and Rachel's a very sensitive person as well so she might have thought I could see how all of them could say to you in some way.

Speaker 3 I could see how all of them could go, no, I'm not sure it is the right thing for you right now. I could see the Zoom that I wasn't on at 9 a.m.

Speaker 2 that didn't exist.

Speaker 3 So then my phone goes. Everyone's in the room.
It's about midday. My phone goes and it says Trevor Noah.
I'm like, oh, fuck.

Speaker 3 For the first time, it was like

Speaker 3 a girlfriend telling me if I was going to get a second date.

Speaker 2 I became this pathetic kid.

Speaker 3 So I'm like, okay, guys, guys, give me the room. Give me the room.
Give me the room. Everyone, give me the room.
You know, so everyone files out of the room going, good luck, good luck, good luck.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, and I'm literally like, hello, hello.

Speaker 2 Hi, hi. Hi, hi.
Just be strong. Hello? You're like, okay.

Speaker 3 Pick up the phone. You,

Speaker 3 within a minute, I was like, hey, man, how are you?

Speaker 2 You're like, good, I'm just in South Africa. How are you doing? I was like, I'm good.

Speaker 3 Everything okay with you? Yeah, just having a break with mom. And literally, I was like, what an idiot am I? I've spent the whole morning crying over this disaster.

Speaker 2 I didn't know there was a disaster.

Speaker 3 I was pretending to be so cool. I've never been as uncool in my life.
And I was like, so I've got a few ideas for the, you know, the Grammys. At some point, we should talk about it.

Speaker 2 You're like, yeah, yeah, at some point, we should just, yeah, whenever. Like, you know, I'm around.
I'm back in LA next week.

Speaker 3 Let's talk then.

Speaker 2 Sure. Yeah, no, absolutely.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's funny. Meanwhile, we had the opposite, because obviously the fire has happened.
Now we're wondering what's going to happen, how are you going to do it? How are people going to do do it.

Speaker 2 Everyone's trying to figure out the semblance of normalcy that they can attain during a disaster like this.

Speaker 2 And then you initially

Speaker 2 thought they were going to get cancelled. Yeah, we thought it was going to get cancelled.
And then it was you who said to me, you had like no doubt in Ben being able to pull it off funny enough.

Speaker 2 I didn't have a doubt. And it's for two reasons, right? So I've obviously worked with you guys for like four years now, seen how you guys do your thing.
And I know the chemistry you have, right?

Speaker 2 The first time in Vegas, I was familiar with your work, yeah, but I obviously had never seen you deliver.

Speaker 2 And after that, you know, I even told my sides, This is the right person for you.

Speaker 2 Like, I've never seen an on-air chemistry like what you guys have, and I'm not even saying this because you're here, right? Like, he'll know.

Speaker 2 Um, so when you guys decided, you put out the announcement even on Instagram, and funny enough, I sent you a DM, and my response was like a fire emoji, which I then thought, well, I've got

Speaker 2 that, that's the wrong emoji.

Speaker 3 I was sat in my house with two hoses, but I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but

Speaker 2 I was 100% sure you'd be able to pull it off. I just knew that the tone of the show would have to be different for sure, which is what we initially discussed.
And then everything from that point on.

Speaker 3 Did you ever, was, so my instinct was obviously wrong, as in like you hadn't, you weren't pulling out. No.
But did you ever consider actually maybe I shouldn't be hosting it this year?

Speaker 3 I don't, or I don't want the challenge of it this year. Or you know what, maybe this isn't for me.
Did it cross your mind at any point?

Speaker 3 Or you were just as easygoing as you made out to me on the phone?

Speaker 2 Okay, let's let's take a break. I'll think about it.

Speaker 2 I'll think about it, and then I'll

Speaker 2 give you the answer to that.

Speaker 2 So, I want to take a moment to talk about Zip Recruiter. No matter what job you're searching for or hiring for, Zip Recruiter can help.
Today, we're talking about the Grammys.

Speaker 2 And if you just think about a show like that, it's incredible the number of very specific jobs that go into putting it all together. You know what? It's actually funny.
Speaking of jobs,

Speaker 2 you and I basically met through jobs. Yeah.
Right. And you and I met on a production set, basically.
Like I was doing, you know, the kids' show. You were doing, what were you doing at the time? MTV?

Speaker 2 MTV stuff, yeah. Yeah.
So you're doing MTV. And so you go there day one.
What do you expect? Well, I didn't really have an expectation because how I got my job was via like an open audition. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So literally everything was a learning experience. And just, you know, okay, what do you do? Then they'll tell you, then you move on.
Okay, what do you do? What's your role?

Speaker 2 How does it all fit together to then create the big production? That's probably the most mind-blowing part of a production is how many people need to come together to make it happen.

Speaker 2 Like I speak to people all the time who will say to me, hey, Trevor, I want to work in entertainment. Then I go, doing what?

Speaker 2 And they're like, what do you mean doing what? I'm like, doing what? There's literally everything in entertainment.

Speaker 2 You know, I remember when I discovered there's somebody whose job it is to make sure that the cables that are on the cameras don't get tangled up because

Speaker 2 yo, and like that's one of the most important people on the job, like running along the sidelines at the NFL or you know at a live show like the Grammys or you name it, like that person's job is just to make sure that the cables don't get tangled so that you at home don't miss the shot.

Speaker 2 You know, I've always wondered what's a first boy grip.

Speaker 2 I've always read that since I was a kid. You know, I was like, I wonder what a first boy grip is.

Speaker 2 Like, what is that? It's the grip that is most important.

Speaker 2 That's what I'm saying. My wife's first boy.
Amen.

Speaker 2 This is why you need like hiring. Because, I mean, how many jobs are there? Do you know what I mean? Like, think about it.
Everyone thinks of a cameraman. Yeah.

Speaker 2 When a movie's being made or when a show is being created on live TV, do you know how many different people are making that camera work?

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? You watch something, you think two people were having a conversation.

Speaker 2 You don't know behind them there were 200 people making it look like it was just two people having a conversation. And all of those roles need people.
And they need to be filled.

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Speaker 2 See for yourself, try it now for free at ziprecruiter.com/slash Trevor. That's ziprecruiter.com/slash T-R-E-V-O-R.

Speaker 2 ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire.

Speaker 2 Okay, so 2024 is coming to a close.

Speaker 2 I've been on tour almost for two years. This is like me finally wrapping things up.

Speaker 2 I put on a few extra shows in New York, at the beacon, the comedy cellar, at a little theater downtown, at the Soho Theater.

Speaker 2 And then I decided I'm going to go to South Africa for Christmas. I'm going to go spend time with my mom.

Speaker 2 And then I'll spend New Year's in South Africa and Johannesburg, which I don't regularly do with my friends, Cézu, Anele, everyone. We normally travel.

Speaker 2 And then I decide, you know what, I'm just going to spend time at home doing like nothing and just chill, just get back to home vibes. So I'm home, I'm home, I'm home, having a wonderful time.

Speaker 2 While we're there, the news comes out about LA. And it's the same news that always comes out every year.
There are wildfires in LA.

Speaker 2 Now, It's not diminished by the fact that it always happens, but you always think to yourself, oh yeah, they got it, man. They always got it.
It can get a a little out of hand, but they've got it.

Speaker 2 They've got it, they've got it. Then the fires grow.
Then the fires grow. They keep growing.
They keep growing. Now you hear about evacuation orders.
And now we're reading this secondhand.

Speaker 2 We're not in LA. So all you get is the news clip/slash a few videos online.
Then the fires jump. Then the fires expand.
Now we're like, wow, it looks like the whole city is burned.

Speaker 2 Now personal friends start texting me, or like my manager, and my agent, Matt Blake, literally, his house gone, like gone, gone, ashes.

Speaker 2 No, but you, so now you start getting direct people going, hey, man, house gone. Hey, house gone, hey, house gone.
And now you're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 2 Everyone, how far is this thing getting? Now you're like, oh, everyone is going to be involved in this.

Speaker 2 It's not like a few people who live near to the boundary, which is normally how it is. It's everyone.
So I'm experiencing this, but it's not about me. So I'm just like, I hope everyone's okay.

Speaker 2 And whenever there's a tragedy, I hate being the person. who's texting people because I feel like I don't need you to reply to my text while shit's going wrong in your life.

Speaker 2 So I'll text you afterwards because my text doesn't necessarily help you. You know what I mean? So I'm quiet.
I'm spending time off my devices.

Speaker 2 We go, we see things are being canceled, moved, et cetera. I go, Caesar, what do you think is going to happen? He's like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 But if, you know, if anything happened, they'll let you know. I'm like, all right, we'll see.
Are the Grammys still happening? We don't know. We don't know.
We don't know. Grammys gets announced.

Speaker 2 The Grammys are happening. But they say nothing about me.
So I'm like, oh, okay. I guess there's going to be a shift.
It's fine. Then I go, Caesar, you saw the Grammys are happening?

Speaker 2 Cesare goes instantly. He's like, yeah.
He's like, Ben can pull it off. I know he can.
He always, he'll figure it out. He always pulls it off.

Speaker 2 So I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, Ben will do, I don't know how he's going to do it, but he'll do something. Cool.
And I'm fine. I'm just living my own life.
We speak on the phone.

Speaker 2 The only doubts I had were doubts around.

Speaker 2 So I'll start with this. Number one, to what James said and what anyone who's hosted an award show will know.
You know, like I remember like talking to Kevin Hart about it.

Speaker 2 I've talked to Chris Rock about it. You name it.

Speaker 2 Hosting a show is one of the more thankless things you can do. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 2 And not thankless, like, oh, I need the thanks, but it's just because it's such a high-wire act, even if there's nothing bad happening in the world.

Speaker 2 You step onto a stage where people haven't come for you.

Speaker 2 And you then do the thing that you do, which is already precarious. Comedy is not a safe art form.

Speaker 2 Full stop. Like, just even people who are coming to a comedy club, there's a possibility that comedy doesn't go the way they want it to.
For a comedian, it's not a safe art form.

Speaker 2 No comedian's like, ah, what a lovely, easy job I have, right? So you start with that.

Speaker 2 Then an award show where people are coming for music is not even like the Emmys and the Oscars, where people are, you know, used to sitting down, having people talk all night.

Speaker 2 No, the music speaks at the Grammys.

Speaker 3 You know, there's very little speaking at the Grammys.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I have my latent doubts about doing the Grammys. I roll to the Grammys because of you.
You know what I mean? Literally from the beginning, I was like, look, I don't like award shows.

Speaker 2 I would never do an award show. But I roll with you and I trust you to keep me safe and to try and put the best show on.
And I love making people feel good.

Speaker 2 Now the fires are happening. I go, okay, so I've already got the doubts I had.
But now, are you throwing a party while everyone's having a funeral? What are you doing?

Speaker 2 How bad is the devastation? Are you assuming devastation on their behalf?

Speaker 2 Because that's another thing I've realized we do quite a lot in society these days is we assume things on other people's behalves that they themselves aren't experiencing. Babyface is a good example.

Speaker 2 Babyface wasn't pissed off. People were pissed off.
How dare you? But the man that you are daring on behalf of is like, no, I get it, man. It's part of the game.
Relax.

Speaker 2 People get offended on, you know, the place's behalf. People get offended.
People, we do that. And sometimes we do it.
I think most of the time we try and do it out of good.

Speaker 2 But the intention doesn't match up with the outcome, right? So I didn't want to make the assumption and be like, no, I cannot do the Grammys at this tough time.

Speaker 2 I cannot, then it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what about the people who've worked for a year on their music? What about the people who've like prepared for a year to work on the Grammys?

Speaker 2 What about the people, and I spend most of my time with these guys. I'm chatting to, you know, the stage hand backstage.
I'm being ushered around, you know, by the crew.

Speaker 2 I'm building bonds with the cameraman because you know what it's like, Caesar, when when you've hosted. That's the thing.
These are the people that you're doing most of it with.

Speaker 2 So I'm not in the position to assume anything. I just go, I will work with what is given to me.

Speaker 2 But what I thought from the get-go, even when I came to LA, was,

Speaker 2 man, this is going to be hard.

Speaker 2 And this is going to be hard because

Speaker 2 half the people who are here

Speaker 2 have a feeling of sadness that they're carrying. It's mixed in with resilience, but it's still sadness.

Speaker 2 The other half have some sort of reverence for what everyone is experiencing, but they've come into town, but they also don't want to be the people with confetti and streamers.

Speaker 2 So every normal pre-Grammy party was cancelled. Every after party was cancelled.
There was no Spotify party. There was no CAA party.
There was no Warner Music Party. There's nothing.
There's nothing.

Speaker 2 So the preamble feels different. People feel different.
You know, The first time you're going to put something nice on is just to go to the show. That's not usual.

Speaker 2 And then on top of that, you realize that the audience isn't having the same feelings depending on where they are. Someone's watching in South Africa.

Speaker 2 They're not having the same feeling.

Speaker 2 Somebody's watching in London. They're not having the same feeling.
They're happy for Ray, you know? And then someone's watching from Australia. And then someone's watching from...

Speaker 2 But these people are like, oh yeah, yeah, we know that there is a fire.

Speaker 2 But also, when we had a fire, you didn't do the thing. So we're having a different feeling.

Speaker 2 I was watching this online, I was seeing people. So

Speaker 2 I didn't assume anything, but I knew for me personally, I was like, this is probably going to be my least favorite Grammys

Speaker 2 because whatever happens, I will be doing something wrong.

Speaker 3 But was it your least favorite in the end?

Speaker 2 Yeah, easily. Right.

Speaker 3 Just because you were worried about that high line of how you were.

Speaker 3 Just because you couldn't be loose.

Speaker 2 So not even loose. So it's like,

Speaker 2 and when I say least favorite, I'm using, you know, like favorite the way you're using. No, it's like your experience.

Speaker 3 experience you don't mean least favorite as in the show

Speaker 2 your experience but for me as trevor yeah this was the most stressful most

Speaker 2 high wire most

Speaker 2 because i i don't want anyone who's experiencing this disaster to feel like i'm minimizing it because i'm not I literally have some of my people in the audience where we've experienced a collective loss.

Speaker 2 So even on a personal level, it's not like strangers. I'm like, I want you to think, you know.

Speaker 2 But then you know there's someone who's watching going like, oh, really? What? I just tuned in for a funeral because it is a celebration. And I always think that's the paradox of life.

Speaker 2 One of the hardest paradoxes of life to accept is that in the same hospital where somebody's dying, a baby's just been born.

Speaker 2 Literally, just like a few hallways away, someone is cheering. And then in another hallway, people are crying because they've had the exact opposite experience.
But what do you do?

Speaker 2 Do you say the hospital is all sad? Or do you say no balloons? Or do you say no crying? Like, what do you do? And that's what it felt like coming in.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 even doing the show, you saw it's like, we were like, what jokes would work or wouldn't work? Or what do we say or not say? Or this is when I knew the room was different.

Speaker 2 This is the first Grammys I've done where everyone was sat before the show started.

Speaker 2 That's when I knew this was going to be a weird, different vibe. I didn't know which way the vibe would go.
But I've never done a Grammys. Other than COVID, but that was different.

Speaker 2 I've never done a Grammys where everyone is sat.

Speaker 3 You mean, because usually it's the Mayhemmer that they're arriving.

Speaker 2 They're very jubilant. Yeah, Taylor Swiss walking.
Nice to see you.

Speaker 2 And, you know, that table and that table and someone's over there. But do you think

Speaker 3 we started it with you talking about devastating?

Speaker 2 No, no, no. But they were seated.
Yeah. Regardless of what, I know what you mean.
Yeah. But they were in their seats.
They weren't. People are normally walking in.
You know, the rappers are there.

Speaker 2 Oh, Buster Rhymes is in the corner. Hey, what's going on, baby?

Speaker 2 There's usually a party in everybody's dressing room. Yes.

Speaker 2 There was none of that. There was none of that.

Speaker 3 But there was by the end of the show.

Speaker 2 Yes. Yes, but it wasn't a party.

Speaker 2 It was the feeling that you have after a funeral or a wake.

Speaker 2 It was a feeling where

Speaker 2 most of the feelings that people had had had been addressed. So,

Speaker 2 you know, when you're applying a bomb to a burn wound,

Speaker 2 there is a feeling of relief that comes with it that allows you to not feel burnt for a moment. Like Kendrick and his acceptance speech, that was a love letter to LA.

Speaker 2 Kendrick may have made the same acceptance speech where the fire's not there, but I don't think he would have.

Speaker 2 You know, now he's like, he's talking about his love for each and every part of those, every city. It wasn't just Compton now.

Speaker 2 It was him going, yo, man, Pasadena and, you know, Santa Monica. And he's like, all of this is part of me.

Speaker 2 Every single artist who got up and said something about something became part of the bomb that soothed the night and the show.

Speaker 2 So I think the feeling we experienced at the end with Beyonce standing up there, I've never seen Beyonce that emotional.

Speaker 2 Never.

Speaker 3 Did you think that was because of what had happened in Los Angeles? Or did you think of it?

Speaker 2 I think it's because of everything.

Speaker 3 Winning an album. No, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 I think it's.

Speaker 3 People sawie Eilish crying when Beyoncé was up on stage, and lots of people have said to me, Why do you think she was crying? And it's really interesting.

Speaker 3 It's like, I think it could have just been the emotion of the night. But I mean, it could have been anything from being happy to see Beyonce.
Some people are saying, oh, she's sad that she's lost.

Speaker 3 And that's why she's crying. I was like, oh my God, you don't know this girl.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you don't know Billie. I like this person.
Yeah, you don't know Billie then.

Speaker 3 There is no, like, she is just the most exceptional human being but i i actually think i i think what set her off if i had to guess yeah and again i don't know i i really don't know i don't know her that well but i think it was the fireman i actually think the moment of those firemen coming out because the fires were so close to her and whatever i think those

Speaker 3 firemen made that moment emotional and and like i wanted to do the fireman for album i knew straight away i was like we have to get firemen to give out album because that's because that is the biggest that's the celine deon moment that we had last year yeah it's you know special it's who you'd get if it wasn't the fires you'd be asking Paul McCartney or Mink Jag electric yeah and so the idea that you get 20 firefighters and you play some emotive music and you come out I actually think that was a real um period or a full stop at the end of the show because it was like we've done all these bits let's support these local businesses let's have this like Gaga Bruno performance and then at the end you just see like this powerful 20 firemen giving out this historic moment that was to Beyoncé that made it even more historic it's the thing that people have been begging for for however many years.

Speaker 3 And it's a group of firefighters. And I loved your line about this is the easiest job they'll ever have to do.
Just give out an order. It's a wonderful line.
I loved it. And

Speaker 3 yeah, I just thought that might have led to the emotion. It was like the person who they grew up loving in Beyoncé, someone like Billy.
And you got the firefighters there.

Speaker 3 And the night's gone, like, it's been a lovely night. Music's brought people together.
And I thought maybe that was why there was so much emotion in the room, but I don't know.

Speaker 2 I think it was a combination of everything, actually. Because

Speaker 2 you were seated in the room. So you were lunch table.

Speaker 2 yeah Yeah, so you seated there you're not yeah even before the show started so if you go back and you listen to everything that leads up to grammy weekend right the pre-parties etc and so on that as the energy the vibrancy of the city as the energy and not that the city wasn't vibrant but things were very different from i'd say wednesday onwards and that was evident in the first writing meeting We already agreed that the tone of the show would have to be different.

Speaker 2 Not to say that the show is going to be sad, but we're observing a moment.

Speaker 2 sure and then by the time you get to the actual show everything that you're saying it ends up being bigger than the sum of its parts um so yes beyoncé is emotional because it is a very big moment but also you're correct the people that do hand over the award to her yeah do make it even that much more amplified so i think it was just it was all of that coming together and it ended up being beautiful in a way because if you look at the reviews now when people speak about the show holistically they're saying best grammys in however many years.

Speaker 2 Because that's really what TV is about. That roller coaster of emotion is actually quite good sometimes.

Speaker 2 If you can cry this one moment, but also end up crying because you're joyful and you're happy that Beyoncé finally clinches the award. Yeah.
That's what makes it beautiful.

Speaker 2 So it ultimately worked out. Yeah, the emotion went, it was really amazing.
Because the firefighters were backstage. Man, they were a great group.

Speaker 2 Because what I appreciated, what you did there with them was

Speaker 2 we do a good job of calling on people to help us when we need the help. We forget that they're people as well.
Do you know what I mean? So we call them firefighters, but they're people.

Speaker 2 And it was cool to meet the people who are firefighters backstage and just see them like laughing and talking shit. So

Speaker 2 I was talking to

Speaker 2 one of the pilots who flies the helicopters and he like runs the command of all of them and he has to manage the airspace, you know, like choreograph what the planes are doing, what the helicopters are doing so that they don't crash because you have to wait for the one to go by before the other one can come so that they can drop drop the water and do the thing.

Speaker 2 You know, it's complicated, but you need the water to be coming as quickly as possible. You've got them picking up at the reservoir.
So he's telling me this. We're talking about it.

Speaker 2 We're having, but then, and they epitomize the paradox of humanity because, on the one hand, he's he's going, yeah, man, this thing was crazy. And he's like, man, but this was so great.

Speaker 2 Thank you for having us. And I can't believe this.
And he's like, and Beyonce took a selfie with, she took a selfie with every firefighter backstage, by the way. Did she? Let me tell you something.

Speaker 2 Like, she even thanked them before she accepted the award. You noticed that, right? Yeah.
She, by the way, not just thanked them. Beyoncé took the award from both.
Like, there were two people.

Speaker 2 She took the award from one, hugged both, looked at both in the eye. And I know some people are like, man, what's the big deal with that?

Speaker 2 For me, those are like some of the moments where I appreciate the humanity of someone more. Because when you've won Album of the Year, it is a lot easier.
It's easy.

Speaker 2 Anyone who's won an award will know

Speaker 2 you black out. Yeah.
Like I don't judge anybody.

Speaker 2 I remember when I won the Emmy, every thought I had before that, you've experienced this, the first time, especially, or the, like, and it was Beyoncé's first time, you black out.

Speaker 2 You think you know everything before you come in there. And they say your name, your mouth goes a little dry, you're, you go, wait, what, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 2 And she had the humanity, I wouldn't even say the presence of mind to go, I see you, I see you. Like, it felt very African to me.
And then she like, then she started with them.

Speaker 2 And then for me, what was great was seeing it carry on backstage.

Speaker 2 She like took selfies with the, and this is like, you know, as an artist, you don't want to be taking a selfie when you've been crying a little bit and your makeup isn't great. The lighting is not.

Speaker 2 No, Beyoncé took all the selfies. That's great.
The light was terrible backstage. These people were, and she was talking to everybody and laughing.

Speaker 2 And we're there and we're there and it's like crying, laughing.

Speaker 2 It felt like the full encapsulation of what the night was about, which is what LA feels like it's going through as a place, and which is what every place that goes through disaster feels like, right?

Speaker 2 You have the shock of the events happening.

Speaker 2 You have the the the moment where everyone wonders like how bad it's going to get or how far it'll go and then from that in the most cliched way you start noticing little sprouts of hope

Speaker 2 and then you start seeing resilience and you see the first smile and the first hug and the first you know and and i think that for me even on an on a personal level

Speaker 2 was a beautiful encapsulation of all of it and i think I can't speak for her, but I think that's what Beyoncé was feeling. I was like, remember, man,

Speaker 2 she didn't get nominated at the Country Music Awards. No.
Imagine what it's, what it feels like for Beyoncé. Yeah.
You dabble in this thing called country. Now, people think you're dabbling.

Speaker 2 People don't know how much she loves and grew up on country. You know what I mean? She's proper Texas girl.
Proper.

Speaker 2 You do this thing, and then country music awards go, nah, you didn't even do it to us. Never mind like winning.
You didn't even do it.

Speaker 2 And you're like, damn. You know? And then here you are in another award show and you go, all right, well, I don't know.
I don't know what'll happen.

Speaker 2 As an artist, you might have made a terrible mistake.

Speaker 2 And so I think it's a culmination of everything. It's the room, it's the night, it's the people, it's the journey, it's her personal journey,

Speaker 2 it's all of it. And I think everyone else in the room felt that for her and for everything,

Speaker 2 because we want to live in a world where there's a happy ending. We all want that.
That's not life, unfortunately. But we all want that.
And in a way, that felt like the happy ending.

Speaker 2 It's the craziest sentence a human being can ever say, but it was like, it was amazing that the underdog won.

Speaker 2 You know, and it's wild to say, like, Beyonce was the underdog, but that's what it felt like in the room. Right.

Speaker 2 Whether it was Taylor Swift or Billie Eilish or Shabuzzi or, you know, Buster Rhymes or, you know,

Speaker 2 Janelle Monet or you name it, people were like, damn, she did it. And I know people are like, yeah, but it's Beyonce.
It's like, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 But still, in the same way, Superman at the end of the movie, we go, oh, he got out from under that building that Zod smashed him with. That's what it felt like.
It's like, we've been on this journey.

Speaker 2 And that was, yeah,

Speaker 2 it was just like a magical real moment to be part of.

Speaker 3 Did the atmosphere in the room, because obviously you're hosting it, I'm in a truck

Speaker 3 in the parking lot, basically, with all the cameras.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, you're disconnected in a wheelchair.

Speaker 3 I'm sort of in the most connected and also the most disconnected in that I'm across at every element in some ways, but then you're not, you're trying to just,

Speaker 3 but the feeling in the room, what was the feeling in the room when Kendrick won? What was the feeling in the room when Beyonce won? And did the, did the, did the room change during the night?

Speaker 3 He, he, I, I think at the beginning, everyone was like, how are we supposed to be? But I do feel like at the end, there was just a love in there and it was a real warmth.

Speaker 2 100%. It did.
So in the beginning, as you correctly point out, people are kind of looking for permission to act a certain way, but they don't know how to act until you're given that direction. Right.

Speaker 2 And so in the opening of the show, I think quickly people were there to celebrate artists and music. Obviously, it's music's biggest night, but you made them observe a moment initially.

Speaker 2 And they're like, okay, cool. We're with that.
And then slowly the show started to open up with the performances, obviously the production, et cetera, and so on.

Speaker 2 And people started to feel good about it.

Speaker 2 Now, when you mentioned Kendrick, I can tell you right now, everybody, when the Kendrick announcement, well, because it happened twice in the live show, not the three awards he won before.

Speaker 2 Both those instances, when Kendrick won, I think everybody in the building was happy for him. Everybody was happy.
Yeah, yeah, they were.

Speaker 2 To the point where they literally sang along to not like us until he stepped on stage.

Speaker 2 I'm a huge Drake fan. I was incensed.
And you were. Yeah, yeah.
No, and he is. He is.

Speaker 2 Caesar was like.

Speaker 2 Caesar was like, what is this? And the crowd chanted in unison. Yeah, my name.

Speaker 2 I mean, what? No, but you were personally hurt.

Speaker 3 But also, you're seeing like the biggest icons in the world doing it.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 you're not just seeing the crowd doing it. You're seeing you.

Speaker 3 I had all the cameras and you see Taylor and Beyonce and they're all singing along.

Speaker 2 Let me tell you something. That moment was so big that the only texts I've gotten other than congratulations on a Grammys,

Speaker 2 the next number of texts that I've gotten from people without fail, the largest number is

Speaker 2 this, I'll like basically,

Speaker 2 I'll try and sum them all up in one sentence. One of my friends wrote in the best way.
He said, huh, this was a tough night for you, light skins, huh?

Speaker 2 That's what people all sex at me. Are you okay? I was like, what do you mean am I okay? They're like, yo, yo, that hit Drake so hard, I feel like it sort of spilled into you.
Are you okay?

Speaker 2 I'm like, because it was such a,

Speaker 2 and it was organic. That was, because the room before that

Speaker 2 sort of was observing the night.

Speaker 2 That song elicited something in them where they forgot that they were perfectly.

Speaker 2 And they were just like, ah, sad, sad, sad. A minor yeah

Speaker 3 but i mean do you think that was a side do you think that was a turning point or do you think it was no no no no it already started to turning point it had started to warm up long before that well where would you say the turning points are i'm interested i think the person who had the most difficult task all night apart from you because obviously you had to bring it all together i think we gave sabrina carpenter a really hard time yo can i tell you and i'll tell you yes i can i can i can unpack it so The thing I obsess about more than anything else, the thing I spend more time on than anything else, is the running order.

Speaker 3 What I mean by by that is like the order of everything from like where you go, what award, how it first it's a logistical nightmare because you've got to build one set while you're taking another one down, and you've got to time the other one so that this goes up while that goes down.

Speaker 3 It's like a crazy building process.

Speaker 3 But act one was Trevor set in the tone, a band doors that had lost everything, and so therefore, a band doors who had lost everything, and so therefore had

Speaker 3 almost like an excuse. It was like a beautiful moment where we were like seeing them and seeing

Speaker 3 them experience, I think, opening the Grammys, which was really beautiful. Then you go in and we come to Trevor and you're doing your opening.

Speaker 3 Then Billie Eilish is on, literally on a background that got burnt down, but it's where she comes from. And it's a really beautiful song.

Speaker 3 Then we've got the commercials, which is helping local businesses. And then you get to top of act two.
And Sabrina Carpenter has to sing about espresso.

Speaker 3 And she's doing it while she's doing a comedy act.

Speaker 2 It was a full-on comedy act.

Speaker 3 And that was the moment where it was like, okay, if we've done the work in part one, if all of those things Trevor's intro doors

Speaker 3 mono but fundraising let's go big on the fundraising Billie Eilish commercials if those five things have worked then Sabrina's gonna be okay and this will be great if not then everyone's gonna be like why is she falling through the stairs do you not know what's going on in the world yeah yeah hashtag do better all of that yeah yeah and luckily i think because part one went really well because you did really well because billie eilish was incredible because doors was very moving and fundamentally sabrina was unbelievably brilliant and funny and charming and like old school hollywood glam and yeah yeah yeah phenomenal like talent that suddenly everybody was up dancing at the beginning of the song they were not by the end of the song they were by the time they got to chapel everybody was up and then for from benson all the way from benson to dochi to teddy to shibuzi to ray it was carnage everywhere we looked people were on their feet and i was like and that was the biggest moment for me when we finished best new artist i was like celebrating with hamish because i was like actually

Speaker 3 whatever happens from like the next hour and a half, two hours, like that was a really beautiful way of taking an audience that you were nervous about.

Speaker 3 And by the end of Ray, they're on their feet, like going, this is one of the best things we've seen. And so, yeah,

Speaker 3 that was the moment. But Sabrina had to turn it.

Speaker 2 So now on that, because you've now reminded me of something that I observed and I didn't speak to you about it even after the show, right? You've mentioned about the different set changes.

Speaker 2 Obviously, you got stage left and stage right. During Sabrina's performance,

Speaker 2 she had the part where she's by the porch yeah um and at the end i think they're supposed to clear the porch so that you can drop the stage on the left

Speaker 2 sakadi would come out of the performance and i think there was a delay with clearing that the stage couldn't drop fully he delivered the link and i think he had to buy like it looked like 20 seconds correct my question is and i've seen these things happen specifically with you very very special moments that the viewer doesn't get to understand because they don't know what was meant to happen to begin with

Speaker 2 and things will go wrong in a major way. Yeah.
I've never seen you, I've never heard you shout, I've never seen you lose your composure.

Speaker 2 Is that a matter of just experience or is that how you are as a person?

Speaker 3 Well, that was Trevor's fault. That moment with Cardi.
He doesn't know it, but that was Trevor's fault. I know his,

Speaker 3 the way he speaks. I know his pace that he speaks.

Speaker 3 So when I do a link, I time it out and I read it as Trevor's voice in my brain and I time how long it's going going to take to do the porch and for that to come down.

Speaker 3 I want you to go back and I want you to watch that. For some reason, and I have no idea why, somebody pressed times four on Trevor Noah and you whizzed through this link.
It didn't matter in any way.

Speaker 3 You whizzed through a link that you had never ever whizzed through before. I don't even remember what the link was, but you literally went, okay, the fundraising on the thing.

Speaker 3 And here's somebody

Speaker 3 Cardi B. And I was like, oh my God, what happened? And I had forgotten to go, hey, I'm going to need you to read this as your normal human being voice.

Speaker 3 You whizzed through it and suddenly I was like, oh, no, the porch isn't clear. So we just cut wide to seven.

Speaker 3 Do you know what? There's such big things in the show.

Speaker 3 I don't lose my call at that. I'm also a bit like.

Speaker 3 What, the audience is going to be so surprised that the porch has to be taken away? And that, like, I'm also a bit like, it doesn't need, that is the least of our worries.

Speaker 3 The worry for me was best new artist and how we logistically did that because that was impossible for Hamish and Haley, our directing team, to do.

Speaker 3 But that moment was just like, well, one of those things didn't really bother me.

Speaker 2 I'll tell you why I went four times. Do you remember doing it though? Yeah, I'll tell you why, but I'll tell you after the break.

Speaker 2 Don't go anywhere because we got more. What now after this?

Speaker 3 What was the link?

Speaker 2 So the link you're talking about was

Speaker 2 coming out of Sabrina, going into the monologue. going into the table talk moving around

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 2 as seesures says No, it wasn't there. No, it wasn't there.

Speaker 2 No, you were right about the first part.

Speaker 3 You came out of Sabrina, came out of Sabrina, and

Speaker 3 you did a whole thing about jokes, leave them to me. Yeah.
But you did them under the applause, so that was done. You weren't going into a monograph.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, yeah. This was coming out of Sabrina.
Coming out of Sabrina into Cardi B. And then going into the.

Speaker 3 Just into going to the best rap album.

Speaker 3 It was a small link, but you can.

Speaker 2 Okay, I can tell you, but I can tell you what the feeling was. So

Speaker 2 one of the biggest unknowns coming into this show was where would the audience be?

Speaker 2 Right? How many people are in that room?

Speaker 3 What do you think? 14,000?

Speaker 2 Yeah, maybe 14,000, yeah. I mean, if you think, yeah, probably 14,000.
Now,

Speaker 2 the weird thing about doing live TV, and especially an award show or anything like that, is you're balancing two balls that are very differently sized. You have the TV audience, which is massive.

Speaker 2 And then you have the live audience, which is tiny in comparison. However, the live audience has a direct and immediate impact on you.

Speaker 2 The TV audience does not.

Speaker 2 But now, if you ignore the live audience, that is at your peril as a performer, because they will never be with you.

Speaker 2 And if you don't have the room, you don't have the right energy that gets you to where you need to be in whatever you're saying.

Speaker 2 They're not listening, they're not paying attention, they're not coming with you, they're not laughing, you name it.

Speaker 2 If you only pay attention to the room, the person at home is going, well, clearly this is not for me.

Speaker 2 This is taking too long.

Speaker 2 And you've watched an award award show where it feels self-indulgent. You're sitting at home and then the people there are like, ah, nice shoes.
Ha ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Speaker 2 And you're like, all right, clearly this is not about me. I'm just watching people.

Speaker 2 But this is the delicate dance. You are making a show for television, but there aren't 200 people in that room with you.
There are 14,000 people in the room with you.

Speaker 2 So they are as important in a weird way as the people at home, and yet they serve very different purposes. So your pace for the people in the room is different to your pace for the people at home.

Speaker 2 Your pace for a joke is different, your pace for everything.

Speaker 2 So in these moments, what I'm experiencing is I've just felt where the room is when we've come out of the top of the show and I've gone, damn, we have a lot of work to do tonight

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 people aren't as

Speaker 2 celebratory as they normally are.

Speaker 2 So now when people are saying, how are you and how have you been?

Speaker 2 At every table, whether it's Cynthia Arrivo talking to Taylor Swift, whether it's John Legend going over and talking to, you know, Esperanza Spelding or whoever it is,

Speaker 2 everyone there is going, how are you? Normally it's like, hey, what's up? How you feeling? Yeah, baby. Oh, look at you.
No, now people are like, how are you? Doesn't matter why. How are you?

Speaker 2 And now I'm going, oh, man.

Speaker 2 This is not where I would do the jokes that I thought I would do. And I've got to move that around.
I'm doing all of this in my head.

Speaker 2 I'm trying to think of how we're shifting things. I'm trying to think of, and I mean, you know me well, both of you do.

Speaker 2 After every show I go, there's a million things I could have done better, you know?

Speaker 2 But because I know comedy is so precarious, I'm always like, oh, it's the death of you, you know, to what you said at the beginning of the conversation. Like, look at what happened with Joe Coi.

Speaker 2 I remember like everyone like laughing, oh, Joe Coi is terrible. Then people said to me, they were like, aha, Trevor, Joe Coi, that was terrible, right? I was like, I take no joy in that.

Speaker 2 There's literally no part of me that was like, haha, yeah, Joe Coi. No, I was going as a fellow comedian, yo, my man,

Speaker 2 I'm not happy and I know what that's like as a feeling. You know, any performer who's had it, especially a stand-up comedian, I'll never look at them and be like, oh, yeah, you idiot.
No.

Speaker 2 And it also compounds because the more you lose the room, the worse your performance.

Speaker 2 And then you're even less compelling to meet

Speaker 2 you now. My friend, you know it very well.

Speaker 2 So in this moment, I'm going,

Speaker 2 we have to edit what the show is or isn't going to be because I've responded to what's happened in like the monologue and I've felt because I'm you know me I'm doing it dynamically I'm trying to feel where the people are because contrary to popular belief you know and I wish like people would understand this especially online

Speaker 2 there is almost no comedian

Speaker 2 that is getting on stage to try and make you feel shit the very act of being a comedian is people who want to go on stage to make other people feel better. They like a laugh.

Speaker 2 They like making people laugh, right?

Speaker 2 But now,

Speaker 2 as like the aperture has expanded and as like things are moved out of context, people are subjected to comedy that they maybe didn't ask for or they're watching something that isn't for them.

Speaker 2 And I understand that. You know, that's the nature of entertainment and TV and social media, in particular, clipping of things, et cetera, right?

Speaker 2 I know as a performer, oh man, if I don't get that right or if that moved or if they didn't get that, it's going to create the wrong ripple effect for the show, not even for me

Speaker 2 and i don't want the show to have that kind of feeling i don't want people coming up now if i'm having a terrible time cardi b doesn't come on and like laugh and giggle when she's presenting the award if i'm having a terrible time gloria estefan doesn't come on like thanks trevor and a little fun little bounce in her vibe if i'm having a terrible time jlo and heidi klum don't pull off benson boon's outfit the same way now they go like oh can we do this can we pull off this guy's i don't know if i want to be part of jim gaffigan is not jumping in yeah you know which for me was my favorite joke of the night

Speaker 2 Easily. Easily.
Easily funny joke. And shout out to Jim.
Let me tell you something, man. There are few things I love more than comedians who love jokes more than anything else.

Speaker 2 Because like, the reason I say shout out to Jim Gaffigan, he's one of my favorite human beings. He's one of my favorite comedians by far.
I didn't tell Jim Gaffigan that this was going to happen. No.

Speaker 2 I didn't prompt him. I didn't preempt it.
I didn't do anything. And I'm sorry, Jim.
I really apologize. But I only thought about it the day of because the writers, right?

Speaker 2 So the night before the Grammys. It only happened that day.

Speaker 2 Night before the Grammys,

Speaker 2 Luca gets traded to

Speaker 2 the Lakers. Anthony Davis goes to the Mavericks.

Speaker 2 Massive news. Caesar messages me first thing in the morning.
He's like, yo, big things happened. I'm like, yep, I know.
Dan Amira, one of the writers on the team, he messages me.

Speaker 2 He's like, we've got to make a joke about this. There's got to be a trade joke or something.
So I'm like, all right, we're going to do something. We'll figure it out.

Speaker 2 I get to the venue. I'm like, okay, I got it.
I got it. I'm looking at the seating chart and I go, Jim Gaffigan gets up, coming back from an ad break.
Now I'm like, I'm screwing Ben. I hope I'm not.

Speaker 2 So I'm trying to find the least impactful place where this could happen. So I go, I loved it.
So I go, let's get Jim Gaffigan to stand up and say, welcome back.

Speaker 2 During the break, Trevor Noah was traded to Dallas. And so I'm now your host.
I know, I'm as shocked as you are. People love it in the room.
We pitch it to you. You love it.

Speaker 2 Everyone's like, this is going to be great. And then, like you, I made the giant producer's mistake.
I didn't ask Jim Gaffigan.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that was happening during the show because I said, is Gaffigan in? Has anyone spoken to Gaffigan? And Kate Dowd, who was with you, she went,

Speaker 2 not that I'm aware of.

Speaker 3 I was like, well, somebody might need to go and tell Jim Gaffigan.

Speaker 2 Nobody had spoken to Jim Gaffigan.

Speaker 2 And then I,

Speaker 2 this is a mess, this is where like, literally, like you, I made a massive assumption.

Speaker 2 I go, Jim Gaffigan, if you know anything about his comedy, his writing, the way he creates shows and who he is, this man has an insatiable appetite for jokes.

Speaker 2 Jim Gaffigan loves funny, so I made the mistake as a fan of his, not even as like a peer, as a fan of his, I went, there's no way Jim Gaffigan wouldn't love this.

Speaker 2 And I thought, I'm just gonna go up to him right before he has to do it and tell him. I also know that Jim Gaffigan can host shows.
I also know that he's fantastic and he's calm under pressure.

Speaker 2 He's like Jim Gaffigan is the stone cold killer in that way. You know what I mean? So in my head, I made all these assumptions.

Speaker 2 And then at the last minute, someone said, Has anyone spoken to Jim Gaffigan? And I went with you. I was like with everyone.
I was like, no.

Speaker 2 And then I said, I'll go. And I went went and I found Jim on the floor.
This was like

Speaker 2 maybe like a

Speaker 2 two-act sort of end. So I think it was after Sabrina Carpenter and all of that.
And I went, Jim, there's a joke. Here's the joke.
And I pitched it to him. Thank God.
He immediately found it funny.

Speaker 2 And I was like, please, this is how, you know, I trust you, but this is how it needs to be performed. And then the red hot chili peppers are coming.
And I need you to not diminish their momentum.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, because that's the only thing I said to you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because I was like, we've promised them this is these guys, this is Californication. These guys are coming out for LA.
Their thing can't be goofy, please. And Jim, the consummate professional,

Speaker 2 the best comedian out there doing his thing, like got up there. And then, honestly, like that moment for me as well was such a, it was such a like wonderful team moment.

Speaker 2 I mean, you heard the room. Easily, my favorite joke of the night.
Like, by far, by far,

Speaker 2 a lot of people were saying that as well. Easily, my favorite joke of the night.

Speaker 3 But that's why I don't think, I think the room was better than you think it was in so many ways.

Speaker 2 I think

Speaker 2 that's a good thing.

Speaker 3 By the time you got to act three, it was. It was like they loved it.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So what I'm saying is this, like, I'm also measuring it by how much I can contribute and what I can do.
Right. Not judging the room.
No, I understand.

Speaker 2 But I know that as Trevor, there's certain things I should be, you know, certain marks I should be hitting or certain connections that I should be making.

Speaker 2 But, you know, you know this. Like, making a live show is like flying a plane.
And then discovering something's wrong with it while it's flying. And you have to fix it.

Speaker 3 Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 2 Oh, the wing is loose, but we can't land. It's live.
A normal TV show, you go, cut, cut, cut, cut. All right, right, everybody.
Hey, let's land the plane. Let's fix the wing.

Speaker 2 Live show doesn't do that. Live show goes, we are flying and there's a massive error.
Can somebody go down and check on the landing gear while we're flying?

Speaker 2 Someone go check the wing while we're flying. Hey, check the windscreen.
Check the apparatus. Check the equipment.
Check the while we're flying.

Speaker 2 So I, even as Trevor, as a comedian, there's moments where the show is happening and I'm going, ah, I would have done that differently. I could have done that differently.

Speaker 2 The person I was looking at wasn't there. So then I have to change this.
I'm going to move that.

Speaker 3 but it's live yeah i don't want to mess up your timing it's not about me so if i miss with a joke or anything yeah the show keeps moving yeah i can't be like wait wait hold on audience let me give you 10 minutes that i know is gonna no but what you are good at and this is where i actually messed up i think in in in the bit with cardi which is what started this discussion was that i just wasn't on my timings and i'm always in his ear the whole show and i'll be like i need you

Speaker 3 i need you to to like go a bit longer here beyonce's not in her seat for country album the weekend set isn't set. You know, all of those things.
And you're unbelievable.

Speaker 3 Like, there was one bit where you stood next to Billie Eilish and I said, mate, I really need a favor. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 3 Like, I know this is a quick link, but I need you to fill for like a minute. And you stand there, and it's the most natural thing.
I watched the show last night. I sat in my house.

Speaker 3 Harvey came over and we watched it. We got a curry and we watched it together because I could actually enjoy it.
And you're brilliant.

Speaker 3 You stand there and go, hey, you're like, hey, Billy, how you doing?

Speaker 2 And she's like, uh-oh.

Speaker 3 And you do a whole thing.

Speaker 2 No, but you see,

Speaker 2 I could say something, but it was because I needed needed the time and meanwhile everyone's building the set or whatever and you're just you found it no one would ever know that mine and you're going take a bit longer yes but this is also where people sort of i wish they could be in my brain for some of these moments this is like one of the moments i'm talking about we're coming back from an ad break all right

Speaker 2 right before we come back you say trevor we need extra time i go okay that's fine we need extra time i'm here you're like yeah speak to anyone or whatever so i'm right there i look down and i go who's around me i'm like, oh, Billie Eilish is here and Finnish is here.

Speaker 2 But now literally we're coming back. And three, two, one, just before we go like action, essentially to me, Billy looks at me with terror in her eyes.
And she goes, uh-oh.

Speaker 2 But she doesn't go, uh-oh, like a funny oh.

Speaker 2 She goes like, she goes, uh-oh, like, please don't do this to me. No, I wasn't going to do anything to her.
But now I'm like, oh man, I don't even want it to seem like I was doing something to her.

Speaker 2 Because here's the thing that people also don't get, right? I know it's easy to put people up on pedestals and like they're artists and they've won awards.

Speaker 2 and yo i i know it's hard to imagine this but there are human beings under all of these veneers there are human beings under these twitter handles there are human beings under the dress rehearsal there's human beings under the like tops you name a top album there's a human being under it

Speaker 2 and the my job for me as trevor is i'm not coming in there to make your night less fun or less enjoyable because you are also on the edge of your seat wondering if you're going to win a Grammy.

Speaker 2 You're wondering if your work is going to be lauded. You're wondering if you're going to be rewarded by your peers by the thing that you've spent so much time doing.
Nobody wants to lose.

Speaker 2 Nobody wants to be a loser. No one wants people to like laugh at them.
I don't care who you are. Nobody wants that feeling.

Speaker 2 So for me as the host, I'm looking down at this person who's now just gone like, man.

Speaker 2 And I've been with Billie Alice like at all the Grammys. This is the first time she's ever done that.
Billy's never looked at me and gone, uh-oh. Her and Phineas look at me like, what's up?

Speaker 2 Hey, hey, this is the first time she went, uh-oh, like, and I was like, Ah, but now we're live. Now, now, what are we doing? That so then you still need to throw for

Speaker 2 what it was,

Speaker 2 and so now I say

Speaker 2 that's why I said the honest thing, which was like, Billy, I don't know why you're saying, Oh, I'm not gonna, and she's like, she's looking at me like, I don't trust you, this is coming.

Speaker 2 And so, that moment is honest, and and I think that's sometimes the thing that people miss in a lot of these moments, you know, like

Speaker 2 when was it like right after the Grammys, for instance, it was, I think it was you, no, maybe Tolisa or someone contacted me. They're like, hey, man, how do you feel?

Speaker 2 Some people are like feeling bad about like some of the jokes or whatever on the show. And I was like, I get it.

Speaker 2 But I like the one thing that I wish people would get with comedy comedians. I don't speak for everyone, but I think I speak for most comedians.
We're trying to make people laugh.

Speaker 2 We're trying to have a good time. All right.

Speaker 2 The hardest place to experience. a collective safe comedy show is where everyone isn't the same

Speaker 2 and the Grammys for instance,

Speaker 2 is the best place for strangers and people who don't normally come together to come together. But it's also one of the most precarious places for comedy.

Speaker 2 Because the number one thing that comedy needs is context.

Speaker 2 Do you know what I mean? So, like, I saw someone who said,

Speaker 2 you arrogant American, how can you say this shit about my people? Then I was like, I'm not American. Someone was like, how could you make that joke about immigrants? How dare you?

Speaker 2 You know, you American. Then I was like, oh,

Speaker 2 I thought you knew that I was an immigrant.

Speaker 2 No, but those are small things that you can take for granted as a performer.

Speaker 2 You go, oh yeah, because you've tuned into the show for an artist that maybe you never tune in for, you don't know me and you don't, you, you have this assumption. The show's in America.

Speaker 2 This person's talking about LA.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's an American. I'm like, no, no,

Speaker 2 I'm an immigrant. I'm making a joke about the idea of immigrants by some people.

Speaker 2 And those are the moments where you go like, ah, damn, I'm always.

Speaker 3 But does it bother you that people, like, does it get to you? Because the majority of stuff is positive, but yet you're you'd think about the negative.

Speaker 2 No, so I don't think of it, it's a weird one to say. I don't think of it personally, because I don't think it's personal.

Speaker 2 There's two things that I do whenever I look at any type of outrage or any type of criticism. Actually, three things.

Speaker 2 Number one, I always acknowledge that the size and scope of it are a lot smaller than we think. You know, and you often say this easily in general.

Speaker 2 How many people are saying a thing is oftentimes nowhere near to

Speaker 2 the amount of people saying it. It's just a few people can be loud.
That's the first thing I think of.

Speaker 2 The second one is it affects me on a professional level because then I go, I always take it on me. I go, I didn't do that properly.

Speaker 2 You know, one of my favorite things I heard was,

Speaker 2 I don't think he's credited with it, but I loved Anthony Jeselnick was on a podcast. He was talking about comedy and the idea.
And he said something that I loved and it's true.

Speaker 2 He said, art is getting away with it.

Speaker 2 You know? And so I don't care who you are as a comedian, you know, whether you are Dave Chappelle or Chris Rock or Trevor No, Anthony Jesselnik or Jim Gaffigan or Kitty Flanagan or you name it.

Speaker 2 Getting away with it is what makes it. It means that the people have fully understood the context that you were delivering a joke with

Speaker 2 and you managed to bring them into your world to say it. That's why a comedian can make a joke about, you know,

Speaker 2 the most heinous things. You know,

Speaker 2 we talk about this all the time in England with like Jimmy Carr. Jimmy's saying the most horrible things, you know,

Speaker 2 killing his family jokes or jokes about like mass murder, whatever it is.

Speaker 2 But because the audience knows he's Jimmy and they know that this is a joke, there's a full context. As soon as the context gets removed, people react or respond differently.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 And so on a professional level, I just always, it's a good reminder to me always to go like, all right, you can work a little bit better. How do you craft that perfect joke? Like

Speaker 2 Chappelle, when he was on SNL, for me, that was one of his best performances I've ever seen.

Speaker 2 And I told him, I was like, yo, the way you think of the line when he says, people were laughing at people, celebrities losing their houses. People are like, yeah, burn your house, burn your house.

Speaker 2 And then he goes, and that's why I hate poor people. Yeah.

Speaker 2 If you miss with that joke,

Speaker 3 the headline is Dave Chappelle says he hates poor people.

Speaker 2 But that man delivered it with such precision and perfection in the moment, in the tone, in the everything, that everyone knew it was a joke and they knew that it was a misdirect and what he was, it worked.

Speaker 2 You don't even have to get technical. It worked, right?

Speaker 2 And so, as a comedian, when I miss, I don't go, screw the audience. I go, ah,

Speaker 2 a little, a little bit, you know, you could try,

Speaker 2 yeah, try, try something different there. Move that around.
Where's the audience? How do you meet them? What are they thinking? What are they not thinking?

Speaker 2 Because my intention is never to go out there and that's not what I'm doing. So it doesn't affect me.
The third thing I do

Speaker 2 is try and contextualize it all. And I think that's one of the great things that I've enjoyed about working on the Grammys.
We live in a world

Speaker 2 where people are spending less and less time with people who are not like them. We live in silos.
People don't mix with people from other religions.

Speaker 2 People don't have conversations with someone who has a different political point of view. People aren't sitting down at tables with somebody who listens to different music.

Speaker 2 It's not happening as much as it used to, right?

Speaker 2 You know, we talked in one of the previous episodes with MKBHD, Marquez-Brownlee.

Speaker 2 We talked about like this idea of the audience of one, how the for you page on social media is a fantastic invention, but it's also taken something away from society that we never knew we needed, which was to have a collective page.

Speaker 2 Did you see the thing? You saw the thing. I saw the thing.

Speaker 2 There's fewer and fewer instances of that. It's the Super Bowl, it's the World Cup, it's the Grammys.
You know what I mean? Your 4-U page, my 4-U page, can be completely different.

Speaker 2 So what we think reality is, is completely different. None of us is wrong, but it's different.
And so, what I do is I contextualize it.

Speaker 2 And the reason I say the Grammys has helped me do that is because I have been at five Grammys now, and I've watched how people have been offended.

Speaker 2 By the way, not by me, I've been lucky, like people have been great, like for most of it,

Speaker 2 but like I've seen people get offended at Sam Smith's performance that one year. People that get offended.

Speaker 2 How could he? How, what, what,

Speaker 2 how, I've I've seen people get offended by, you know, like, oh, Shakira, really? There are children watching and you're going to dance.

Speaker 2 And it's like, it's like, no, no, no, the context, because they didn't, if you know Shakira, you know, this is Shakira. This is great.

Speaker 2 I've seen people get offended by a rap act that's come on and someone hears like one or two of the lyrics and they're like, how can they say, you're going to put that person on a public television show and let them say that?

Speaker 2 How could they say that sentence? I've seen people get offended by how some of the artists are dressed during a show. You know, this is family viewing.
How could we...

Speaker 2 I've seen some people get offended just because an artist performs after another artist. I've seen

Speaker 2 the downside of humans coming together who are not homogeneous

Speaker 2 is there's likely to be more offense. The upside is that's when you get the most beautiful tapestry

Speaker 2 and I think that's what we experienced on the night. I saw people stand and cheer for Dochi because they had discovered her with that performance.

Speaker 2 Dochi knew Dochi,

Speaker 2 but people were standing up like, man, I just discovered Dochi.

Speaker 2 People were standing and cheering for artists because they're like, I never, I never, Chapel Ron. They're like, is this what a chapel Ron is? Yeah.
Charlie XCX, I saw old people

Speaker 2 start like going like,

Speaker 2 I don't know what this is. Yo, the weekend, that whole laser show, the whole thing.

Speaker 2 And I, and I think that thing for me, I might be in the minority, but I think the risk of people being offended for me is worth bearing if it means we're all at least in the same space to be offended because I think society needs more of that and so honestly on a personal level I always just put my head down and I go do better Trevor and I don't mean do better like change the subject I go like no how can you then in future create something where the context isn't lost if I make a joke

Speaker 2 and the point of the joke is what it is and then you get angry i really don't care but if you go oh you you said this and it meant that And I'm like, no, no, no, that's not what I meant.

Speaker 2 Then I go, okay.

Speaker 3 Then I needed to do better.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I go as a comedian.

Speaker 2 Yeah, man, I go as a comedian. I'm like, okay, and I and I look at a joke and I go,

Speaker 2 tell it 10 other different ways. How could you tell it in 10 different ways so that the person who's listening to it would feel different about it?

Speaker 3 It's a different world that we live in now. This is going off from the Grammys, really.
But like for you, when you do this podcast, right?

Speaker 3 And you're out there and you're doing a daily show when you used to do it. You're doing comedy.
You're doing things.

Speaker 3 You're now talking to an audience that often will be offended for no reason, but sometimes might be offended for a reason. Do you have to change in the last few years?

Speaker 3 Do you think you've had to change the way you are because of the way people react to stuff now?

Speaker 3 Do you over-censor yourself? Are you more cautious in the way you speak? Are you worried about that? Or do you still have just the freedom to say whatever you think is right and funny?

Speaker 2 I actually think I've gone the opposite way. Wow.
And I'll tell you why.

Speaker 2 When I was hosting the daily show, I wasn't just hosting the daily show, I was executive producing the daily show.

Speaker 2 I was, in effect,

Speaker 2 the employer of 170 odd people. I think at the peak, 190 people.

Speaker 2 Me and my other executive producers, this is our job, is to not just make a good show, but keep these people employed. Like, that's the pressure that comes with hosting a show.

Speaker 2 Is that if you get kicked off the air, it's not just me,

Speaker 2 it's my camera guys, it's my team, it's my this, it's my. And so, in my head, I'm going, us fails, not me fails, us fails, right? So if I say something that hurts this collective, can I stand by that?

Speaker 2 Oh, Trevor, you made this joke, and now the daily show doesn't exist anymore. And I'm like, yeah, I don't care.
Yeah, but I do care. Because I, you know, I know Benny's kid.

Speaker 2 I do care. Do you know what I mean? I hang out with Zach.
I do care. So that's the bigger thing for me.
Now I'm a lot more nimble.

Speaker 2 And secondly, I also believe, you know, and Aaron, who

Speaker 2 who does my hair for not just for the Grammys and a bunch of things here in LA, she said it beautifully the other day. She said, I feel like we're moving into the age of authenticity.

Speaker 2 And I believe that. And so I go,

Speaker 2 you know, we talked to Marquez about it on the show. We talk about everything.
Yo, man, I no longer live in a space where I think things should be about like the publicity or the PR of it.

Speaker 2 If someone says to me, I didn't like that joke, I go, tell me why.

Speaker 2 And they tell me, me, and I go, oh yeah, that's not what I meant. But thanks for the notes.
And I'm going to try and tweak something or move it. I won't not say things.

Speaker 2 What I am more cognizant of, though, is that we have lost so much context.

Speaker 2 So even when I'm in South Africa doing a podcast with Sizue and Anele, or even if I'm telling a joke in Abu Dhabi, or if I'm doing like a TV show in Sydney, Australia, I know that that joke doesn't end in Australia anymore.

Speaker 2 I know that that podcast doesn't end in South Africa anymore. I know that the Grammys doesn't end in LA anymore.

Speaker 2 And so now, what I'm trying to do, which is very hard, I'm not even saying it like in a woe-is-me way. I actually like hard things.
I like challenges.

Speaker 2 I go, wow, how do you tell a joke that maintains its context across borders? It's almost impossible, but I love the opportunity and the challenge. And so now I actually say more,

Speaker 2 but I spend more time

Speaker 2 trying to get to the context. Does that make sense? Yeah.
So now, Ben, to you, right? I guess in the same vein,

Speaker 2 when you used to do the late-late show, which obviously you're also EP of, that was in some ways an extension of the work you do at the Grammys.

Speaker 2 So, for example, the week leading up to a Grammys, sometimes you'd have a guest on that would throw forward to your Grammys.

Speaker 2 And if anything were to happen, because it's only one night at the Grammys, if anything were to happen on the Sunday evening, you would have had an opportunity, maybe on the Monday evening, to interview whomever the person was, clarify whatever needs you clarified, et cetera, and so on.

Speaker 2 Without the late late show now, do you find that you don't get to do a do-over?

Speaker 2 Is that something that actually filters into your mind at all? Because I used to obviously see the synergy between the two shows.

Speaker 2 Just having, you know, been around in proximity to you guys, I'd see how the one would work with the other.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think I miss... With the late late show, it's not specifically missing replying to something that's happened because

Speaker 3 I don't think the stuff I would ever go in is ever goes into that controvers controversial the Grammys I can think of two moments probably in the five Grammys I've done including last night's or whenever it was two nights ago that was I got a bit of stick for whap

Speaker 3 with Cardi and

Speaker 3 I remember that my answer on that one was Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion wanted to do that performance. They were excited about it.

Speaker 3 And who am I to say, no, actually, who am I to censor that and say, no, you shouldn't do that you need to be more like this that's just not ever the job of someone like me and then the Sam Smith one also you're right it did people people got I got texts from a couple of people

Speaker 3 who were like it was inappropriate more from the religious perspective because he was dressed like a devil yeah and people were there was a couple of people who said you know I don't think I'll be able to watch the Grammys anymore because of that and I loved that performance and I thought it was amazing but like I I have to say,

Speaker 3 I've probably changed a little bit. I've got two little girls now.

Speaker 3 I had them then, but maybe they were of an age where they're repeating stuff and they were, you know, sitting in the front row at the dress rehearsal watching Charlie XEX.

Speaker 2 And I was a bit like, oh, God, my five-year-old's like grinding, like throwing panties in the air.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, oh, no, what have I done? But I'm probably a bit more conscious of it. I was a bit more like gung-ho maybe five years ago.

Speaker 3 And now I am a bit more conscious that, you know, you are making a show that you want America to feel comfortable watching, not just your America. And so I'm very aware of that.

Speaker 3 And I think that that comes into me.

Speaker 3 As for like the late late show, I don't miss being able to respond because it's James's show not mine yes I was the showrunner with Rob but it was James show what I miss is something will happen in the world and you have no outlet to make a joke about it or make a sketch about it or there'll be something that happens in pop culture and you'll be like oh this is a great idea for like a spoof music video I miss that hugely

Speaker 3 but not in response to work that I'm doing really that's that's not what I miss but but but I definitely miss that power of creating an hour of television every day because it was just the most remarkable thing I think about the Grammys and it's like months of work for like that four hours.

Speaker 3 Whereas at least the late age, you turn up every morning, you have a blank page and you can do whatever you want and that next day you can't celebrate the good ones or mourn the bad ones because you've got another one tomorrow.

Speaker 3 You know, whereas if something goes wrong at the Grammys and luckily it didn't, and in fact I was happier than I've ever been after this Grammys, weirdly, I felt the most like weight off my shoulders at the end.

Speaker 3 I don't know if you felt that from me. No, I did.

Speaker 2 I did. Because we had like no technical issues.

Speaker 3 We had no technical issues and it it had gone well and i really felt like everything that we wanted we'd you know you had done that high wire app brilliantly and the performances have worked so it wasn't my favorite grammys that we've done even though everyone's saying oh best

Speaker 3 it wasn't my favorite grammys ever but it was the biggest relief i've had because

Speaker 3 um i was just like oh man thank god it's over the weekend didn't get leaked like that was a secret i've been carrying for a long time and best new artist is something i've wanted to do for so long and yeah i just thought it all worked really well And I thought the other thing is, you know, that thing that you carry around and the voting has nothing to do with me.

Speaker 3 I don't even have a vote. Of course, I don't.
But everyone going, you know, Beyonce's got to win album the end.

Speaker 2 It was just a relief that it happened. But also talking about like offense, I personally have gotten texts that have been delivered to me through like, I don't even know how like people know a person.

Speaker 2 Literally people being like, How dare you say Beyonce made a country album? Do you let me tell you something that don't you dare?

Speaker 2 But like people, like people fighting with me, by the way, like I made a category, like I vote, like I chose.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm even going like, okay, first of all, I don't know how you got this to me, but I also cannot do anything for you. Me, myself, as Trevor, I cannot do anything for you, right? Same.

Speaker 2 But that's what I mean by like offense in that way.

Speaker 2 And here's the thing. Here's the thing

Speaker 2 that's tough in life.

Speaker 2 What's tough in life is we should always remember that the car crash gets the most attention. Yeah.
Right?

Speaker 2 And it's the way humans are designed. You know, sometimes we try and make it insidious.
Oh, the news companies, they'll always cut to the thing. Yeah, but also as humans, we look at the car crash.

Speaker 2 How was your drive? Man, there was a massive accident. How was your drive? I don't even know.
You don't report the fact that the highway moved freely.

Speaker 2 You report the fact that there was a giant pileup. Okay.
So I also understand this. And I try to remind myself of it and think of it for people.
But like, what I appreciate, I will say of the Grammys.

Speaker 2 So, when I have the phrase, like, it's not my favorite Grammys, I'm only talking on like a technical level

Speaker 2 and on a like ease of, you know, it's like if I was a pilot, I was going, it's not my favorite fight because of the storm and the turbulence and all of that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, however, and I mean this honestly, getting to the end of that show, seeing the types of hugs that people were giving each other, seeing the way that people were responding to what had happened, seeing Dochi like celebrating her performance backstage, like, you know, like the greatest moment ever.

Speaker 2 When she's like, we did that shit, you know what I mean? Seeing like everyone, every single person experience something so special, you know, whether it's like Bruno, like Bruno Mars.

Speaker 2 People don't know how much that guy loves music and doing it well. So to, you know, to see, to see that in every way.
And then on top of that, ended with like firefighters coming up to us.

Speaker 2 Even when people are like, thank you. And I was like, you can't thank me.
Firefighters coming up and be like, man, thank you so much. And I'll be honest, that's what keeps me going.

Speaker 2 And I always say,

Speaker 2 there's this phrase,

Speaker 2 it came into my head a few years ago, and it was,

Speaker 2 let everything you experience in life

Speaker 2 be an answer to a question you already have. That's what I said to myself.
Let everything that happens to you in life be an answer to a question you already have.

Speaker 2 And I was like, you don't know what the question may be, but when something happens to you, let it be an answer. So

Speaker 2 your car is taking long. You've given the car to a valet or something.
It's not coming.

Speaker 2 And you're standing there and you, maybe the answer to your question, am I a patient person, is being answered right now. Do you know what I'm saying? It's an answer to that question.

Speaker 2 Someone says to you, hey, your shirt looks nice. And you go, oh, thank you.
And you feel something. That's an answer to the question, do I care how people think I'm dressed?

Speaker 2 Take it the way you want to, but it's an answer to a question you didn't know you had.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 for me personally, when like a firefighter comes up to me and goes, you know, like

Speaker 2 one of the, like the, I think it was one of the chiefs, she was standing on stage,

Speaker 2 yeah, Sheila, doing the actual award.

Speaker 2 Sheila came to me and she went, you, and I was like, oh, God. And she went, she's like, I've got a bone to pick with you, kid.
And I was like, what?

Speaker 2 She's like, you gave me so many amazing years at the daily show.

Speaker 2 And then you go off and live life. She's funny, though.
And she really is. She's like, can you just leave me like this?

Speaker 2 She's like, I'm glad you're doing everything else you're doing. But, oh,

Speaker 2 give me a hug. And it's like that moment.

Speaker 3 And then, like, what was the question that she answered in that moment, though?

Speaker 2 The question that she answered for me was,

Speaker 2 am I doing it for anybody? Right. Does it mean anything to anybody else? You know, is it like, because

Speaker 2 I'll be frank with you. And Cesar, you know that, like, you know this intrinsically about me.
I don't care for most things and I don't do it for me genuinely.

Speaker 2 I have a great time like doing most things just like whatever.

Speaker 2 When it's outward facing,

Speaker 2 I don't care for most stuff.

Speaker 2 But in those moments, I remind myself that it's not always about me.

Speaker 2 And I see her joy, and I'm like, oh, yeah, man, try and remember those people.

Speaker 2 You know, like the other firefighter comes up to me, and he's just talking about like the stuff I've said and the way I've made him laugh. And I go, oh, yeah, don't forget those people.

Speaker 2 And for me, the Grammys in that way, I know it's not the reason, reason. But to your point, when you go, damn,

Speaker 2 the Grammys itself sitting near like $10 million that has been raised just on one night

Speaker 2 from,

Speaker 2 you know, literally from the top, from Doors coming all the way through Billie Eilish, Sabrina Carpenter, and then you name it all the way down to that final performance with Charlie XCX.

Speaker 2 And you go like, every single person had to come together to do this. And in the same way,

Speaker 2 every single person who donated had to come together. Like, I didn't know this.
But now I'm even more proud knowing that each contribution wasn't $10,000. I'm much prouder, yeah.
I agree.

Speaker 2 Everyone's just like, yo, man. And that's why I kept saying it the whole night.
Just give what you can. It's not about like,

Speaker 2 this is not about like, just give what you can. And I think that was the lesson for me of doing the whole Grammys for this year was everyone, just give what you can in every situation.

Speaker 2 $5 doesn't help anybody who's lost their house. It doesn't.
But if everybody can give $5,

Speaker 2 you'll be shocked at what can happen. Do you know what I mean? Trevor Noah can't.
That's literally what happened. Yeah, Trevor Noah can't make the Grammys.
I can't.

Speaker 2 I can't make it good and I can't make it bad. But I can contribute to it.
You know, everyone can. And even like the recording members voting, you know, no one can make Beyonce happy.
You can't.

Speaker 2 But 13,000 people came together from the music industry and made her happier, I argue, than I've ever seen her because I don't know her personally in that way. But like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 And I think that was that was the overarching feeling for me. And isn't that kind of,

Speaker 2 I suppose, the nub and the joy of doing a show like the Grammys, that it's actually so consequential in so many people's lives.

Speaker 2 If you do one of your evening shows, one of your evening shows, yeah, you can make a person feel good, but you do the show on behalf of the academy,

Speaker 2 it literally means so much to all of those artists that are in attendance at night. And I also want to stress this to people, you don't understand how many artists are in that room.

Speaker 2 I know we see the big artists and you know them, but man, you walk down and you'll see like a composer who is having the night of their lives, sitting with their spouse.

Speaker 2 All they've done is compose or even like conduct classical music. And they're just like, this is the pinnacle of what I've worked for.
Sorry, I cut you off. Carry on.

Speaker 2 And so while you're not in charge of like who wins and who loses,

Speaker 2 you certainly are in charge, for example, of who gets to perform and in what way. That's right.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 2 And you've also got a very personal relationship with the artists. I've seen it.

Speaker 3 I've experienced it.

Speaker 2 Does it ever get so important to it?

Speaker 2 Not all of them, but some of them. That's exactly it.
Does it ever get so important to it adds to attention, or I suppose, then will make your relationship even better? Because of

Speaker 2 a decision you've taken. Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 3 There'll be artists who I've got relationships with, and they'll be like, I've got a new single, I've got it, I'm going to save it for the Grammys.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, oh, I don't know if I've got a spot. And I'm like, this is awkward.

Speaker 3 Yeah, there's like really lovely things. I'd say like the three, the three performances that I was really excited about for a long time.
Not a long time, actually, some of them were a long time.

Speaker 3 I called Brandy Carlisle, who's a really good mate of mine, and I said to her, I really, I'd been listening to I Love LA

Speaker 3 in my car going between the hotel downtown where we were evacuated to and my house where I was sitting during the day because I never thought the fires were going to come and take my house away, but I did think like an ember could fly over and like, and then a small little fire becomes a big one.

Speaker 3 So I just decided the kids would be downtown in the hotel, which is where we'd sleep. And then I in the day would come and sit in my garden.
I had a hose at the front, a hose on the front.

Speaker 2 I was a hose in the side. That's a plan when the ember goes over.
Yeah, I had three hoses, right?

Speaker 3 So I would sit there all day on my laptop doing work by the window in the garden. And I'd just like look in case there was embers because I can put out an ember.

Speaker 2 You know what?

Speaker 2 You're like that guy in a zombie apocalypse with like a tiny little rifle. Yeah.
And you're just like, I'm going to protect my family. I'm going to protect my house.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 But no, but it's true because the truth of it is my house was only going to burn down because

Speaker 3 we were at the edge of Brentwood. So the fire was a long, it was a mile and a half, but it was it was close, but it wasn't close enough.
If it was coming for us like it did with Palisades or

Speaker 3 Altina, I would have been able to get in my car and go. But it was more likely that something got a lot of trees over the house.

Speaker 2 So I was just like,

Speaker 3 I think it would be better for me to just be there, put out a little fire, then it become a big fire, and then it's too late. So that's what we decided to do.

Speaker 3 It's not, I promise you, it's not as risky as it sounds.

Speaker 3 But I was listening to I Love LA. And again, going back to our earlier point that I've suddenly become obsessed with this city, I don't know what's happened to me.

Speaker 3 But so I'd be listening to it and I'd be like, what a great way. That is making me feel good.
I love that song. Maybe if Randy Newman would allow us to change some of the lyrics, which he did.

Speaker 3 But then I was like, who performs it? And at one point I was like, Stevie Nicks would be great.

Speaker 3 And then I was like, Miley Cyrus would be quite fun. Would that be cool?

Speaker 3 And then I thought, well, Red Hot Chili Peppers would be great, but they'd never do I Love LA because they'd want to do their own song, which might, which is amazing, but then it would be a bit more somber yeah yeah it's a very somber so i called brandy carlyle and i went

Speaker 3 i i really like this song she thinks good idea who do you think i should do you think pink do you think like who do you think and she said have you heard of the band doors and i was like it's funny i actually just watched them on kimmel two nights ago because i know that they're i didn't know them well but i knew of them and their house like one of their houses burnt down parents house all of that And she was like, I know them and they're like incredible musicians.

Speaker 3 And so I was like, maybe we do that. And we put a super group around them.
So that was an amazing moment doing a Zoom with that band. They were like, why is the Grammys calling us? Like,

Speaker 3 not that they're not amazing, but like, they're not a nominated band. And I was like, I'd like to speak to you.
And I got on a Zoom with Taylor and Griffin and their manager, Brian.

Speaker 3 And I said, look, we'd.

Speaker 3 I want you to open the Grammys, come follow in the footsteps of Prince and Bruce Bringstein and Michael Jackson. And they were kind of like, oh my God, this is insane.

Speaker 3 And it's a weird moment for them because they know they've just experienced the biggest sadness in their life. They've lost everything.

Speaker 3 But then out of that comes. But out of that, they're opening the Grammys.
So it's like a really amazing thing that they would dreamt of as kids.

Speaker 3 And then it's a real weird feeling for them because you're like, well, I'm only getting that.

Speaker 2 I'm not going to.

Speaker 3 Let's be honest. Doors aren't going to open the Grammys at this stage.
They might in a few years. But right now, they're not opening the Grammys unless that happens.

Speaker 3 So that's actually a bit of a head-screwing thing for them.

Speaker 3 But that was beautiful because I knew it could be amazing and I knew they were great musicians and every musician we called, John Legend, Brittany Howard, except Cheryl Crowe.

Speaker 3 We emailed Bob Dylan's manager and I haven't heard back yet, but I'm hoping maybe we'll get a reply. Maybe he's in South Africa.

Speaker 2 You never know. He could be in South Africa taking time away.

Speaker 3 So those calls were fun and then Ray and Dochi was really fun because I've been a fan of those for a long time. Both of those I've known of for a while.

Speaker 2 And then when Colbert put oh man, your camera shot of the dochi thing like

Speaker 2 made it look like she just like hated me. Did you see that? No.

Speaker 2 That was like, but this is what I mean about like the aperture in life, right? Go on. So the joke we always have at the Grammys is this.
Who you cut to defines the moment.

Speaker 2 I would have only... Like, for instance, if I make a joke about Taylor Swift and you cut to Taylor Swift and Taylor Swift is like, uh-uh, it's over.
Over. It's over.

Speaker 3 That happened to Joe Coi. Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's what happens. Now, she might have been going uh-uh, for anything.

Speaker 2 But if you cut to her at the wrong time, and you have to,

Speaker 2 I think, four years ago. You have to be sensitive about this, actually.
You know, obviously you and the director is like

Speaker 2 you can make something that isn't something become something so for instance if you cut to an artist do you remember the year beyoncé won best dance and the camera cut to diplo and he leaned over to somebody and what he's now said what he said he said like i i worked on that or i wrote on that or something like that because he did i think he worked on the album but he went like i worked on that and then people at home were like oh he said that's that's screwed up or she shouldn't have won or she didn't deserve it that's yeah and all of a sudden Diplo's now is having a he's in a huge beast

Speaker 2 with an army of Beyoncé fans. I do worry about that and I always wonder about that on your side as like

Speaker 2 you know what it is.

Speaker 3 It's about the timing of it because what happens is so I will have a bank of Hamish is in the director's seat to my right and I have a bank of all of the cameras. There's like 20 of them.

Speaker 3 And so I'll specifically ask for the four that are in the audience

Speaker 3 in my best eye line. So I'll be looking there.

Speaker 3 And so while Hamish is calling, you know, cut to camera two, go around the back of Bill and say get the you know we'll be I will always be looking at where the stories are because I'll know the stories more than Hamish will he'll know like the shots he tells an unbelievable story but I'll know that like you know Billy is Charlie XEX's closest friend and like that can be really so I'm aware of that because it's I've put the show together yeah um but like there is an example actually in this specific one like I cut to somebody and they were smiling and they were really clapping really really a lot um and I said I said to I always call I went two's nice.

Speaker 3 That's what I'll go. I'll go lovely on three or whatever, which is my way of going really politely.
I'd like you to cut to cover two or three. And Amish knows that.
Rather than going, cut to three.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. I just go, two's lovely, and he'll be like, two, and he'll catch it.

Speaker 3 But sometimes he'll have, you know, he'll be doing other things because he's got other plans or he wants to go wide or whatever, or I'll be sort of shouting, see the room, see the room.

Speaker 3 So we're going wide.

Speaker 3 But if he cuts a little bit late, then somebody laughing, right?

Speaker 2 Or like enjoying it, somebody laughing.

Speaker 3 And if he hears it a bit late, and then they've just finished laughing and then they're gone. And then you cut there, then it's brutal.

Speaker 3 And it happened this year where somebody was really applauding somebody for winning. I genuinely can't remember which one it is.
I'd have to watch it back. And they were applauding like that.

Speaker 3 And I went, cut to camera too. And he didn't for a second.
But then he went like four seconds later. And by that stage, they were like this.

Speaker 2 Oh, really lame glove. And everyone was like, wow, they were so annoyed that they won.
And I was like, oh, they weren't. They weren't.

Speaker 2 They weren't.

Speaker 3 So it's all actually, it's not even about the cutaway. It's about the split second of the cutaway.

Speaker 3 Because somebody, during a laugh, the peak of somebody's laugh, their face is very different to the come down from the laugh.

Speaker 2 Oh, not completely.

Speaker 3 So you've got to catch it. But then sometimes, sometimes, like when we caught, Taylor did like a dance.
I can't remember when it was, but something happened.

Speaker 3 And she did like, she sort of did this dance. And it was only for that second that she did it with the camera on.
It was incredible. And I was like, oh my God, that's amazing.

Speaker 3 Same with the meme that's going to go forever of Beyonce being shocked.

Speaker 3 What happens is, and there's one thing I'm going to change next year. I've decided, there's one thing I'm going to change next year, if I'm allowed to, I'm saying it.

Speaker 3 I want to swap the artist's name and the album because what happens is people go,

Speaker 3 Cowboy Carter, Beyonce. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And actually,

Speaker 3 the TD, the technical director, who doesn't necessarily know

Speaker 3 the name of everybody's album, short and sweet.

Speaker 3 Sabrina Carbon. And then you might.

Speaker 3 So I think we should just change it where they go, Sabrina. And then you immediately just know and you're not waiting.

Speaker 3 Because if you miss, like, luckily we didn't miss it on Beyoncé, if we had missed the like shake,

Speaker 3 a fraction of a second later, then the whole thing wouldn't have been like she was so surprised. It would have just been like it was emotional.

Speaker 3 So like you're, the timing of that when you cut defines those awards.

Speaker 2 It's also, I know it's, I don't want to overstate it because it's just the Grammys, but it is still the Grammys. It's also a lot of power to wield.
You can make beefs that don't exist.

Speaker 2 You can make artists

Speaker 2 quote-unquote hate each other. Like according to the public, oh, you saw how she responded when he won the award.

Speaker 2 You can literally, it also reminds me to be cautious of how I even see the world, funny enough. Like I go, don't forget that the world that you're seeing is filtered.

Speaker 2 Somebody's showing you something and how they show it to you defines how you think it actually happened or didn't happen. And not in a conspiratorial way.

Speaker 2 Just remember, the way you're seeing something. has been chosen by somebody else.
And so in that room, funny enough, I've seen people's faces shift like from moment to moment. But where the camera is.

Speaker 3 Well, you know what's funny? I made one change, one big change when I took over this show five years ago. Yeah.
And it was a change for the worse of the show. No question.

Speaker 3 I scrapped the quadrant where you see everybody's face when they win or lose because that was always on the show. It was always on the show every year for the 62 years of the Grand.

Speaker 2 You're talking about the part of the show where they go.

Speaker 3 So when they go, the nominations are.

Speaker 3 And then they go, and then as they're opening the envelope, you see

Speaker 3 five or eight faces. All nominees are up there.

Speaker 3 and it's my favorite bit of award shows i am rewinding you love it i'm rewinding it i'm rewinding it to see their expressions i'm rewinding to see how good they're acting i love it everybody loves it and for the for the for the lesser of the audience experience i took that away i i've made the show worse by doing but why but why do you do it then

Speaker 3 because i think the grammys when we took it over had some work to do in the artist community. I felt like the Grammys had, over the years burnt a few bridges with quite a lot of artists.

Speaker 3 I felt like I spoke to some well-known artists who are friends, and they said that they felt like they were always on display, like they were in a zoo, they were in those lines, they were in all you know, you were rows in a theater, and all the cameras are there, and you're just sitting there squashed, and you're stuck, you can't get out because you're on a rope, right?

Speaker 3 Is that no one's on the aisles, there's only a few people on the aisles, so they were trapped and they were on camera. And they all said that although they loved winning a Grammy,

Speaker 3 I think they felt like the evening was a lot of pressure for them and it was a difficult thing for them to enjoy because they all felt on display.

Speaker 3 And there was also lots of other problems with the Recording Academy and Grammys that aren't for me to discuss now and it's none of my business anyway.

Speaker 3 But I would, I essentially went around and spoke to a lot of artists and I really wanted to make artists.

Speaker 3 One of the biggest things I wanted to do five years ago was make artists want to come back to the Grammys again and enjoy it and love it and have a great night.

Speaker 3 And one of the things I get most happy about on that this night on Sunday, that room, as you just said, is stacked. And it's not just nominees, like people are showing up.

Speaker 3 They want to come, they want to be there, they want to present, they want to be part of it, they've got boxes that, and it's become, and that's that's I think that's for three reasons.

Speaker 3 One, it's because we go out of our way to be as loving and as kind as we can to everybody. And like, we do it in a nice way.
Number two is people love the tables because it's a vibe.

Speaker 2 They've got food, they've got drink, they've got things. It's an atmosphere.

Speaker 2 I want to interject on that because I get to experience that in a way that you guys never do you all is in the control room you all is backstage somewhere yeah that vibe by the tables i cannot begin to explain to you how much of a vibe that thing is people love it people

Speaker 2 people move from table to table during ad breaks people come over yo so and so hugs drinks they have whatever the snacks are on the table that is yeah honestly probably the best so there wasn't so before i took over there wasn't drinks there wasn't food there wasn't tables it was all just rows you can't get up to speak.

Speaker 3 You know, you've been at the Emmys or whatever. You can't get up and talk and go around.
You can't get in. People are shuffling.
They're up. They're down.
It's not.

Speaker 3 And then I also felt as much as I love the camera in someone's face when they lose.

Speaker 3 And as much as I think that's good TV, I felt for the long-term gain of the Grammys

Speaker 3 and the warmth that people feel, I want everyone to feel protected. And I know that.
losing on camera for them is going to be difficult. And you know what?

Speaker 3 They don't need to have a camera in their face for it. They do have a camera in their face because we're covering everybody's nominees

Speaker 3 But I actually go out and watch memes of them I really yeah, and I really try if I do see somebody who does really look a bit upset that they've lost I I don't cut to it.

Speaker 2 Oh, why?

Speaker 3 I don't cut to it because like I know that's good for gossip and I know it's good for the internet, but it's not good for them and it's not good for the person who's won.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it makes sense.

Speaker 3 And I and I really want it to be a nice, loving room and I want people to love coming. And that's our bread and butter now.
It's about them coming back every year and enjoying it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Because that's why they've announced today, CBS, that it was the most

Speaker 3 in the history of television, the most social impressions of any TV show of all time was this last Sunday. Wow.
Of all time.

Speaker 3 And like, that's because everyone's in the room and I want everyone to feel protected by that.

Speaker 3 So if I did see, if I did think Billie Eilish was crying because she'd lost an album, we wouldn't have cut to her. Right.

Speaker 3 But because she was crying like Gargar was with the emotion of the moment or firefighters, whatever it was, I was like, that's a beautiful shot.

Speaker 3 So yeah, that's, that's just something that we changed that I miss because as a viewer, I miss it. But as the person who has to oversee the show, it's helped me a great deal.

Speaker 3 And I, you know, in that, I just be like, don't worry about it. You're going to be fine.
I'm not, you're not going to be embarrassed.

Speaker 2 I like that. And it's, you know.
Yeah. Congratulations, my friend.
It was a, it was congratulations to you.

Speaker 3 You danced that highway.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, for real. Phenomenally.
It's not an easy task. You spend pretty much a year on it.
Like you only get a few days to enjoy the Grammys and then you go into the Grammys immediately again.

Speaker 3 Well, yeah, maybe. I mean, I juggle a few days.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but you you spend a lot of time on it. So, I'm always happy for you and the entire crew and team.

Speaker 2 Like, the last thing I hear before I walk out on stage is oftentimes what the stage hands are saying. And even that is part of like, literally, we're like part of a football team or something.

Speaker 2 You know, like the lead stage hand comes out and then he made this beautiful speech. He didn't even know that I was like listening to it, but I felt motivated.

Speaker 2 He's like, all right, everybody, you know why we're here? You know what we're doing. We got one night, people.
Let's make this work. Let's put our best foot out there.

Speaker 2 And come on, guys, let's get through it. Let's get to the other side.
You ready? Let's do it. Yeah.
And then I cheered and I clapped. And they turned like, oh, the host was here.

Speaker 2 But I was like, no, thank you. I was like, I needed that.
I also needed that. So it is, I would say.
It's a great break to everyone.

Speaker 3 This is a corny thing to say and it's boring for a podcast, but I want to say it because it's 100% true.

Speaker 2 This podcast is boring, ain't you? No, I loved it. I found it like therapy.

Speaker 3 I found it like therapy. It's been lovely.
But like, it's, it's.

Speaker 3 Like, I'll be the one who sits here and talks about the show and represents it. But like, we have put together this A team.
Like, you're talking about those stage hands.

Speaker 3 Just think about how quickly they need to take down a Sabrina Carpenter set and bring

Speaker 3 that weekend pyramid. You know, Raj Kapoor, Jesse Collins, Patrick Menton, Tabitha Janet, all of them, David Wilde, they just do this phenomenal job.

Speaker 3 That makes, I think, the hardest show in television possible. And the fact that people are being nice about it,

Speaker 3 look, I'm more relieved than I am happy. I'm never like, I'm never that self-congratulatory than you are either.

Speaker 3 I'm just more relieved that like, you know, the 12 nice emails came in.

Speaker 2 That's it. I like that.
The 12 nice emails. Ben Winston, thank you so much, my friend.
Oh, it's lovely chatting to you all.

Speaker 2 What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yameen, and Jodi Avigan.

Speaker 2 Our senior producer is Jess Hackle. Claire Slaughter is our producer.
Music, Mixing and Mastering by Hannes Brown. Thank you so much for listening.

Speaker 2 Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now?