Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]

Welcome to What Now? Another episode of the podcast where this time I'm in South Africa. And if you've listened to enough of the podcast, you'll know that when I'm in South Africa, that means I'm with my people.
And when I'm with my people, we create different episodes. On one of the first ones I did, I did for my 40th birthday was Anil Mdoda, a good friend of mine.
She's a broadcaster. She is an executive producer, an all-around media mogul, and most importantly, a super mom.
and my other friend

Cizu Etlomo

he's a TV presenter, a radio host, a business person in economics. I think he has a degree in something.
He studies a lot, whatever. The point is, he's a friend, and we're going to be chatting together.
Disclaimer for everyone who listens. These are South Africans.
I'm including myself. So we're going to talk like South Africans.
And yeah, whatever happens, happens. Because when my friends and I do a podcast, we try and make it as informal as possible.
So if you're looking for like the dictionary definition of like a simple podcast, you came to the wrong place. Scroll to the next one in your feed now and enjoy that.
But if you're looking for like an honest get together of three human beings who love, respect and fight with each other, then you've come to the right place. Welcome to What Now.
This is What Now with Trevor Noah. This episode is brought to you by National Education Association.
NEA's Read Across America campaign celebrates a nation of diverse readers with recommended books, authors, and teaching resources that promote diversity and inclusion. However, certain politicians are banning books with characters representing diverse perspectives and experiences, including books about Martin Luther King and The Trail of Tears.
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Learn more at readacrossamerica.org. This episode is brought to you by Brooklinen.
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One, two, three, four.

I declare a thumb war.

One, two, three.

No, that sounds great.

This sounds great.

We're hearing nothing.

You even put somethingies?

Yeah.

Your face went, bitch, who do you think I am? Oh man You look at me like Yeah This is who I am Oh, that is so funny Bitch, do you think I am? So welcome guys Happy New Year Happy New Year Can you still say Happy New Year? Yeah, dude, of course Until What do you mean? Until, okay, what's your time? What's your cutoff? I mean, you know. Valentine's Day.
It depends how well I know you. It also, it depends how well I know you.
Yeah. So with you guys, it's like, okay, you're pushing it now.
So we are at the cusp. Yeah.
All right. People you close to, you should have said Happy New Year on the 1st of Jan.
100%. Otherwise, you're not close.
I've never thought of like a scale, like a gradient for when you can say. Everything is on the spectrum, bro.
Yeah, you're truly a math guy for everything cizor's got like a graph for everything the x-axis is friendship time then the y-axis is but remember uh cizor didn't have friends he's got cousins we we are the first friends in cizor's life please let's remember so happy happy new year guys happy new year oh that's funny happy new year to you too yeah man stranger what do you mean stranger i guess we said if you're a friend you should have said happy new year oh wow okay all right all right at least you're on form we're in the mix i think differently about the conversations we're gonna have because i enjoy Delving into your minds As friends but also as problem solvers

And About the conversations we're going to have Because I enjoy Delving into your minds As friends But also as problem solvers And then I find sometimes When we have these conversations Like the last one we did on the podcast People were just like Oh yeah, that was an interesting conversation And you guys, your friendship And what I realize is Friendship is almost The cooking apparatus That we use to figure things out Does that make sense? I. Because everyone can have a conversation.
But I find when you have a conversation with your people, there are extra ingredients and extra tools that you have, namely your friendship, that define some of the conversation that you can't get with a stranger. I think it's good to have a conversation with your friends because we can say, ah, ah, don't say that one in public.
Keep that one here. Wait, do you think that's still a thing? Yes.
You guys do to us. No, no, wait, wait, wait, wait.
No, no, no. And this is an honest question.
Yeah. In fact, this is a great question to kick us off because the conversation I wanted to have with you was, what are you worried about going into the new year, moving forward, right? Because a lot of people have like a positive outlook.
Yeah. But I but i'll start with that funny enough do you think cancelling is still a thing i think it's finished i think the attempt to cancel is still there and the fact that there could be an attempt to cancel you means that you could still be cancelled because you could be ducking and diving and catch one stray that does cancel you so cancelling is still a thing this is why it is important to ask your friends first.
They call them WhatsApp conversations. You know, sometimes you'll tweet something, you'll put it on X or you'll put it on Instagram and someone will be like, hey, yeah, yeah, first start with your friends with that one.
Test that out. Yeah, I think it's definitely still a thing.
I don't know. Because if you lose 10% of your income, it's still 10% of your income that you've lost.
Oh. Do you know what I'm saying? So you're looking at even like micro cancellations.
Yes. You're looking at like, yeah, erosion cancellations.
Yes. Oh, I was just talking about like, you're canceled.
It feels like it's finished. Like it feels like we were at a peak.
So here's the thing. If I'm using Anelia's departure points, right? Then I don't necessarily want to take it to cancellation and loss of income.
I would just look at it as just how humans interact. And the first thing is some people don't know who they are.
That's the first thing. Okay.
Then other people know who they are, but they're uncomfortable with who they are. Okay.
Oh, damn. So now when you have a conversation, there are certain things that they want to hold back, specifically when they're with strangers, because they don't want the strangers to gain insights to their part that they're uncomfortable with.
Like their racism or xenophobia? All of that, yeah. Okay.
And it could be anything. Maybe you're a freak.
You're just like, ah, too much. Okay.
So your friends should know you're a freak now your friends already know at least one of your friends there's nothing there's nothing here there's nothing here that I can say that can shock you guys yeah at least one of your friends in the event that you die in a dodgy place one of us must be like yeah well yeah so now I knew they went there exactly Exactly. I knew he frequented.
You see? A freak.

So now we have those conversations,

then you go,

okay, okay, okay.

So it's back a little bit.

And again,

it's not because you fear being cancelled.

It's just,

again,

there are certain things that are just appropriate

and others that are inappropriate.

That's all it is.

Things that are appropriate

to in public

and things that are inappropriate.

Yes.

You get like inner thoughts

and outer thoughts.

Yes.

I agree with that.

I like how you said this like you studied it in a textbook. most likely did come from a textbook You're so robotic in your thinking Yeah no that's what I mean but you're so robotic In your thinking that it really sounds Like literally the way you said that There are inner thoughts and there are outer thoughts Humans only do inner thoughts inside He's been AI You've.
All right, so why don't we go around? Well, first, I want the high level of what you're worried about for the year, you know, as we go into the future. And by the way, it's not even just for the year.
It's rather what you're most concerned about at the beginning of the year that you think may be a thing. Because you know, like every year has a different feeling.
Yeah, yeah. Right? So I have two.
Do you want me to give you the two now? Or is it one round, a round, No, no, give us the two now. And then I want to hear Caesars and then I'll give you mine and then we'll see where we kick it off.
The first one is my son's turning 10 this year. And he's reaching the part of his life where he no longer looks inside the home for role models and who to mimic himself on.
He's going to look externally. And this wasn't something that was, you know, on top of my mind until we went on holiday and he made a friend, a friend with a discipline problem that by the end of the holiday, I had to say to him, give me a phone.
Did you add this boy's number? I said, delete him, block him. We are not going to be friends with him type of thing.
And then it had me thinking that, you know, we had a point now where i just have to make sure that his self-esteem is so high and his confidence is so unshakable that things like that don't impress him he has to remember how he was raised at home i love this don't don't say more on it don't say more on it okay so the problem we got the problem that's all the worry yes all right what's your second worry last year we had Christmas party, right? And everybody had to stand up and say what they're grateful for. Yes.
Obviously, people are grateful for, you know, work and, you know, good relationships and, you know, being financially sound. Yeah.
Somebody stood up and said that he is grateful for how? Out of 60 people, he's the only one who said that it got a lot of us thinking that you know we're at a place where anything could be something like right

now I have an issue with my shoulder and I'm so scared to go and check it out because I'm so

scared they're gonna say it's something like oh you've got six months I'm like no I've got things

to do I can't have six months and I promise you my health is something that is Just starting to Appear in my list of things That I worry about A lot more than it did because Sooner later you know you have to come to terms that You're not immortal you're not going to be around Here for long you know Damn these are very Ex worries in different ways. Cease, what are you worried about? So, this year per se, not too much.
Last year, I was worried about maybe the possibility of World War III. I don't think...
Oh, so now it's ended for you? Yeah, it's not going to happen now. Wow.
These guys fumbled. They foobahed them.
What? They fumbled the World War III? They fumbled the opportunity to start World War III. Is this Ukraine and Russia? Can somebody say it like that? No, all of them.
This guy just says Israel, the US. The opportunity to start World War III.
They foobar the bank. Damn.
Okay. So you're no longer worried about World War III.
So I'm happy. I mean, that's a great way to start.
But in the short to midterm, I am worried about the type of world that my kids will grow up in. You've got kids? In theory.
Okay. All right.
Yes. Guys, you never know.
Your friends can now announce things. And it's more to what Anilio was talking about as well, right? Because you can do everything in your power to protect your children and those that you love within the ambits of your circle, but then they need to exist Within a community, right? And when they go out Hey, man I'm seeing that We're just getting too liberal right now And some of those things Are going to come back to bite us Okay, I like this Alright, great So, Anel's worry is Your son is now at an age Where he's looking externally For role models Second thing you're worried about Is you're at an age where anything is internal yeah is something is something yeah okay sees we're no longer worried about world war three hugh but worried about the world that his children will live in because now there'll be a world so now you've got different problems okay cool um the thing i'm worried about maybe it touches a little bit on what you're saying but i worry that the but I worry that the global experiment has failed or is failing.

What's the global experiment?

So I think for a long time,

we were seduced by this idea

that the whole world could come together as one.

And I think a lot of it was sold through the lens of trade.

Okay. Do you know what I mean? We've always traded, don't get me wrong.
We've always traded. But a lot of it was sold through the lens of trade Okay Do you know what I mean? We've always traded, don't get me wrong We've always traded But a lot of it was sold through the lens of trade So like the Euro Union You know, it's like, ah, and then BRICS Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa It's like, ah, these blocks that have all come together And so Europe at some point was like We don't have a border, you know If you are European, you can go everywhere in Europe.
Yeah, yeah. I think that that is starting to fail because, yeah, I don't think we thought far ahead enough.

I don't know if we, you know, crossed all the T's and dots.

Because we also never did it.

Did you always believe in it?

I was just told that I was too young to like believe or not believe.

I believed in it.

Oh, you did believe in it.

But I'll tell you, I don't think this is anything new if anything i just think we need more perspective because if you go into history and just look at how each civilization has a lifespan it usually ends like this yeah but that's what i'm you're just now talking Yes. And you just said you don't have to worry.
Yeah, you don't. No.
Because, listen. It's not about me.
You just said to me... Let me just tell you what you just did right now.
This is what Sizwe did. I was on a plane and I said, I'm a little bit worried that this plane feels like it's going to go down.
And Sizwe said, well, if you look statistically, most planes crash around this age. So you're right, but you don't have to worry.
So let me explain. Let me finish.
All right, go. You're 100% correct.
So all civilizations do come to an end, but it has to be that way so that a new civilization may begin. Yes.
Right? You just have the kind of perspective now at your age, are you 40, 41, where you've seen things go from where they were to where they are. Okay.
Right? But it's not to say the world's going to end tomorrow. No, I'm not.
I don't even think that. But you're 100% correct.
Things are deteriorating at a rapid race. All right.
So which one do we start with? Which worry do we want to handle for? I actually would love to start with your son. Anelis one.
Yeah, I like it. No, okay.
So that one can give you what works So before I say anything on it Take me through a little bit about how you feel like as a mom of a son 10 years old Like I understand you saying you worry that he's now going to get external influences But why is that a worry and not like necessarily a joy Oh because I They already have been external influences Right just even you two as an example To the relationship that you guys have with Alake It is bordering on On uncle, on father figure And all of that right And so I think it's the older people Because I get to choose them You must remember that For a very long time I get to choose who is around him I'm honored that you chose me, because I get to choose them. You must remember that.
For a very long time,

I get to choose who is around him.

I'm honored that you chose me.

I thought I was just like defaulted in,

but I'm glad you chose me.

Thank you.

And now with that is that he,

you know,

also he can't control

who he's going to meet type of thing.

So granted, yes,

somebody may spark his interest

and it'll be in a good way,

but along the line,

it's going to be in a bad way.

And I just want that he's,

to know that he's able to decipher

and decide for himself

Thank you. Granted, yes, somebody may spark his interest and it'll be in a good way.
But along the line, it's going to be in a bad way. And I just want to know that he's able to decipher and decide for himself that, ooh, you know, this one is not the one.
So tell us the story about him meeting this kid. Where did he meet the kid and how did you know the kid was bad? And why do you think Alakeh was unable to discern between the good and the bad of the kid? I prefer a kid who outright rude then i'm like oh is that it you know i'm like okay kid let's square up but this one it was just like slight discipline issues where if we say hey guys let's all go we're going now yeah he'll stay in the pool almost like looking at me to see are you gonna come in the pool type of thing sizing you yeah Yeah, constantly sizing me up.
And I suppose that's the relationship that he has with his parents, you know, where he's constantly pushing the boundaries. Can I just ask, how old was he? Same ages.
They're actually seven days apart. They discovered this.
Oh, we're best friends, you know? Seven days apart. I'm born this day, he's born that day.
So I'm like, oh, okay. So wait, you said get out of the pool.
Yeah. He then looked at you.
Yeah, like. And then what did you say? I said, budi, I said get out of the pool, you know.
And he kind of like waddled around a little bit as well. Yeah, because I'm trying to picture, it's pretty gangster for somebody to be waiting and challenging you.
And continue looking you in the eyes. So he doesn't respond.
No, he doesn't respond. Maintaining eye contact.
That's a G. That's a G right there.
But you see, this is what I'm saying is that come out and say we're fighting so I know which arsenal to activate type of thing. So now when you're doing this.
That's funny. Oh boy, that's funny.
And then, so now I take like a few, because I was also in the pool. Oh, were you in the pool? No, I was swimming with him.
Oh, you were in the pool. And then I got out.
Okay, got it, got it. So it's also a case of, kid, please understand, I'm not too lazy to jump back in here.
I will come and fetch you type of thing, right? And now, now I'm looking at Alak, and he's almost like, he's's at the step Of the pool His friend is inside The water And his mother's outside So it was It was a moment Where he was deciding It's a psychological Tug of war Yes Would he You know Does he want to be good Or does he want to be cool Exactly You know So now So that's how I was like Okay So it was a few of those things Maybe we're in the room We're like okay We're going for dinner now Everybody's ready This kid I'm like hey let's go You know, so now, so that's how I was like, okay, so it was a few of those things. Maybe we're in the room.
We're like, okay, we're going for dinner now. Everybody's ready.
This kid. I'm like, hey, let's go.
You know, 10 minutes. Now we're standing outside.
Even my partner's like, wait, wait. But now our child is standing with us.
Now we're waiting for a stranger's child, you know, because we just met you. If I may ask, so what heritage is this child? Is this a...
Same as I like it. Everything.
Guys, when I say everything was identical. Oh, wow.
Okay, so this is interesting. So you didn't even have like a little African swag you could pull out? Just a little something? No, no.
No. Not at all.
Wow. Not at all.
This is actually more dynamic and interesting. I was picturing a white kid and I was like, no, this sounds normal.
No, it's not a white kid. This is a black kid.
Oh, wow. Yeah.
When you think about it, Anel's fear, your fear, and my fear are the same fear. Run me through that? So, to kind of like break it down in a nutshell, you just got to ask yourself, are you comfortable with the world raising your child? If you were to set your child up into the wild and the wilderness, which is the world, are you comfortable with the sort of person that come back as You see Which speaks to your question Yeah And kind of speaks to my fear as well That's why I was saying that You know The job now is to make him So confident And have High self esteem And understand who he is That he doesn't have to be Taken by those things But the truth of the matter is At that age Because remember We preteen now we're going into yeah yeah at that age you are you you are questioning a lot of things yes you know what you were taught but there are other lessons coming from the outside and they're not always going to be good so i i don't i don't i'll probably butcher some of it i'm bad with remembering numbers but there was a child psychologist who once told me for boys and girls it slightly different, but I believe from like zero to two or three,

it's all mom.

It's just all mom.

Right.

And then I think from like three to like seven,

10 and it changes for boys and girls.

It's mom and dad in terms of like,

just like parental household vibe.

But then to your point,

they say for boys specifically,

once they hit like 10,

11,

12,

somewhere there, it's all about uncle as they call it. it.
It's all about other men or male figures outside the household. Could be a coach.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Could be a head boy.
Who just like, they're the ones who now... Captain of the football team.
Yeah, exactly, exactly. The numbers are actually 0 to 7 is mom, 7 to 14 is dad or uncle, and then 14 to 21 is external.
But because... But who's external? You gave us such specific ones for the first two.
No, but you must remember that because kids are growing up at a rapid pace as well, for me, and this is not scientific or whatever, I just think that at 10 now, we are already external. Yeah, that's possible.
Because also, he is going out a lot more than a normal child would have gone out as a 10-year-old 20, 30 years ago. Is there a part of you that wonders if your mom Tai Chi has been enough? Yeah, there is.
The fact that he questions it. Because you must remember, some people just will go along with it immediately.
Hey, let's do this. We go, I can see the thought process in Alaka's mind when he goes...
And then like, you know, I can see it. I can see it.
But also, you know, I've been very careful in... Because I don't want my child to be scared of me at all.
I don't want that. Too late.
Ha ha. No, I'm joking.
That's right, dear. Oh, wow.
Yes, carry on. I'm so glad that entertained you both of you.
That's very funny. You're such a mom, you know? You're such a funny line.
I don't want my child to be scared of me But I do want him to To know that

This is the line and this is the line

Right

And to respect

And you know

To respect me

And just to respect other people

And also to respect somebody's decision

That they're not going to go

Like you know what

I respect that you want to do this

But I am not going to do that

And that's frankly really all I want

So now

Did you explain to Alake

We'll call this anonymous kid X

Why X's behavior

Is not acceptable in this house

Thank you. All I want So now Did you explain to Alake We'll call this Anonymous kid X Why X's behavior Is not acceptable In this household Yes Did he pick it up though Yes he did Oh so he saw this happen Yes And as we're walking Back to our room He was walking so far ahead Because he knew He knew that We want to have You know The chat with him But then I did the most, right? I didn't say anything.
Because I could see he was like, it was chewing him. I didn't say anything.
And I just asked and I said, your guy's behavior at the restaurant was really not what we like about you and what we've taught you. He's like, no, I understand.
And then he quickly named exactly what he'd done. This is child X.
No, this is, I like. Oh, this is I like.
Yeah. Okay, okay.
And he quickly like, but then because we're asking him, because there was a point where they weren't within us seeing what they were doing. But then they came back and they just like disheveled and wet.
Like they were playing with water somewhere type of thing. Yeah.
But he, so he explains what happened. I'm not buying the story, but he explains what happened to my partner.
My partner's buying this. I don't know if he was buying it, whatever.
Guy to guy they had like a little mano a mano and i'm like actually you handle it leave me out of it fine go to bed three in the morning i wake up because i want him to tell me the story again as he's just woken up go into going to his room Going to his room This is on a holiday bro

Put the lights on

Everything

The lights on, everything

The lights on, even

No, but he doesn't wake up

Because the lights are on

But I just want

That when I do wake him up

The lights are on

Yeah, the lights are on

So I can see his immediate reaction

I ask him

Just give me that story again

Run it by me again

Because I didn't quite catch it

I just want to rewind to the point

When you said

I don't want my son

To be scared of me

Bruh

We're at a resort

We're at a resort

And this drill sergeant

Is turning on the lights at three

I'm like hey baba Wake up He wakes up He's like ooh Is it time for us to go already I'm like no no Just. I didn't quite hear that story.
Wow. Run it by me again.
And then he ran, he said it, and I was comfortable with the answer. And then I was like, but you do understand that this is not behavior that we are accustomed.
He's like, no, I get it. And I know that it was wrong.
And this is why I was apologizing. And I'm like, okay, cool.
I just wanted to know that the story was the story and there wasn't anything else that i need to address and i said to him because you know that some kids don't come kids don't come from the same backgrounds and from the same homes yes in other houses they leave the lights off and they let you sleep until the morning that's how other houses do it words but in this house wow you know so yeah you but also when i did that because then i got back and And then my partner's oh is everything fine I'm like yeah it's fine and then like then when I woke up in the morning and I told him he was like no no ways and I'm like yeah and I said to him you know what I've never been a mother to a 10 year old before so I'm also winging it type of thing yeah that's true yeah I'm also winging it much like he's never a 10-year-old before and with all these emotions and everything that's going on with him. So we're just going to have to figure each other out.
And I have to like negotiate with a 10-year-old terrorist essentially. Yes.
And just hope that their logic coincides with yours. You know, I don't know if I ever told you the story So Isaac My youngest brother right Him and the middle brother were staying

With me in LA and they'd

Come to visit me and it was this whole thing

And we're there for like Christmas

And they now got into an age where

They're big enough that I have to negotiate

With them but they're still young enough

That they do crazy shit right

So one day we're all having dinner together

We order food and then we

But we plate it I was like because I want them to feel

Civilized you know what I mean because I was like I'm also

the That they do crazy shit Right So one day we're all having We're having dinner together We order food And then we

But we plate it

I was like

Because I want them to feel civilized

You know what I mean

Because I was like

I'm also the person who eats out the box

But I want

Let's do like a family thing

Let's put

Take the food out of the box

And put it on a plate

Like we cooked it

Cool

So we all eat

We put things together

Everything's great

We're done

And

When we're done

It's time to clean up

And I say

Guys help me

Let's take everything to the kitchen

And I take

Thank you. Everything is great.
We're done. And when we're done, it's time to clean up.
And I say, guys, help me. Let's take everything to the kitchen.
And I take like one bowl, one glass. My brothers stack everything.
They stack, stack, stack, stack, stack everything. I'm like, what are you guys doing? They're like, we're taking it to the kitchen.
I was like, guys, guys, guys, take one thing at a time. You can come back.
My other brother's like, he's like, but I can do this. I got this.
I was like, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa. It's not about whether you've guys guys guys Take one thing at a time You can come back My other brother's like He's like But I can do this I got this I was like It's not about whether You've got this Take one thing at a time You're stacking Like everything You know what I mean He's like yeah But I'll be fine I was like no no no You think you'll be fine Until you're not fine Please just take one thing At a time He's like oh okay So I go to the kitchen With the one thing And now you know We're doing that thing Where we're crossing so one person goes to the table other person one person goes to table as i'm at the table with the youngest isaac we're chatting i hear smash on the other side of the house glass shattering and you know you know what it's not even like i'm like oh is there a break-in i know exactly what glass that was so go to the kitchen i'm like yo bro what happened oh yeah the glass dropped I'm like the glass didn't just drop The glass dropped because you took more things than I told you to Then he's like oh yeah my bad Then I'm like no not your bad I told you the thing So now we're having this like And he's not even fighting He's being like very polite and everything And so now the youngest is like running with the stuff So he's doing one and one But he's sprinting back and forth so i'm like okay no running so many rules this is what he says he's like geez bro he's like so many rules i'm like yes these are the rules for how you make sure that the stuff in your kitchen stays around right and also you don't hurt yourself you see so he's running guys at some point i go yo i said walk slowly take the things one by one don't he's like yo but i run all the time i'll be good I was like yo Just take the things He's like bud Why do I have to do it yo And I'll never forget this In that moment He's like why do I And I was like Cause I said so And you know when like Every parent flashed in front I was like I have become death He became raven But did he accept that? No he didn't But I've always said My youngest brother Is probably the smartest person we've ever had in our family.
And the most emotionally intelligent. He sat with it.
He did what I said. And he came back maybe like 10 minutes later.
You know, now there was like a weird feeling in the house. But he came back to me and he said, hey, Trev.
He said, I just wanted to apologize for what happened. I didn't mean to offend you.
I was like, yeah, I get it. I'm sorry too.
You know, he says, but here's the thing. He's like, the reason I keep asking you why, when you tell me to do things, it's not because I want to undermine who you are as a person.
He's like, it's because I don't understand why you're doing things the way you do them. So if I just do them the way you do them, I never really believe in it.
I'm just doing it because i've learned it as a rote identity he's like but if i actually learn why you do it the way you do then maybe i can adopt it as my own and then if i'm challenged by somebody or something one day i'll know why i do it so the reason i ask you why is not because i'm challenging you as my big brother it's just because i really want to understand why you actually do it because i don't want to be robot. I want to be a human being who believes in my actions.
So, you know what it made me realize is like, I realized that every parent and every adult figure in a child's life will have that frustration. You are bound to be frustrated because you are proposing every idea through the lens of logic and experience.
But your kids, rightfully, I think in many ways, are also here to test what those boundaries are. If every child, even us, think of us, the three of us sitting here and everyone who's listening, if you did everything the way your parents did it, half the time you wouldn't be where you are.
You wouldn't have discovered a new way to work, type of job a new career a new country a new language a new sport a new religion a new style of dressing relationship yeah like you literally have to break what they've taught you to make something new and the difficulty as you say is we're all winging it we don't know what will or won't work. It's just in these moments where you go, look, when we say get out of the pool, get out of the pool.
But it's a tough one. Because it's like, do you have a...
Because I've never had a friend who's a mom. Do you get what I'm saying? Like a friend friend.
Thanks, Jeff. No.
I'm also like, this is a way to break up with a friend. No, what I'm saying is, so what I'm saying is, I've never been in the position where I can say this to you and ask you honestly, like, do you have a, it's not like you can have a fixed number, but do you have a number of how much you're willing to tolerate his boundary pushing because you think it might be what creates something bigger and more beautiful than you've ever considered definitely but the thing that we parents are doing now is you we're very willing to question the school that he's at because there's too much writing and the kids aren't writing anymore let's take him to a school that just does robotics and everything is computerized it's it's all or sporting right oh my child is so good at this maybe i should take him out of the school because he's going to for the spring box.
So he's going to play for the pro tiers and all of that. But I think when it comes to, you know, just discipline and emotion and all of that, as parents, we're very much holding on to, you know, what you believe at that moment in time.
It's very difficult. And I tried very hard with my son where I'm like, okay, level with me, talk to me, you know know explain to me what was your thinking when you were doing that yeah yeah right so that i can understand because like you said i'm 40 and he's 10 and we really we we different times right you know different times different ways of parenting as well and i didn't have that with my mom or my dad it was what they say sure you know, you know.
That's the rule. That was the rule.

It's also because it's like, I'm paying for the house, I'm paying for this, so, you know,

as long as you live under this household, under this roof, you are going to, you know,

type of thing.

And I don't want that with the house, you know, simple things as well.

Like people ask me, why do you knock when you go into your son's room?

You know, it's your house.

I'm like, yes, but it's his room. Did you knock at 3am?

You didn't.

That was a surprise. And also that's a hotel.
Oh, okay. Oh, nice.
Nice. Hey, I see.
You know when law enforcement finds all these loopholes? Oh, we didn't need a search warrant because it wasn't your home. You know what I'm saying? You know, Ben, the visitor was sanctioned by the Minister of Tourism, right? Gave you keys to the city.
So, like, why do you knock? And I'm like, because I want him to knock when he's coming into my room, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You want to model the behaviors.
And here's the thing, is that I want to show you that I respect your privacy because everybody else in the world must also respect your privacy type of thing. Oh, damn.
Because if I, how can I say, I'm allowed not to respect your privacy, but everybody else must respect your privacy type of thing because if I how can I say I'm allowed

not to respect

your privacy

but everybody else

must respect your privacy

type of thing

so I basically

treat him the way

I want the world

to treat him

so that he can know

he's like no

back at home

this is how I'm treated

and you're not

treating me the way

that I'm treated at home

where I'm loved

so this is not gonna fly

and actually that's all

you want your kids

to be about

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Did you ever have a bad influence? Because I know you weren't the bad influence. Yeah, so bad influences are everywhere.
No, but I'm saying as a kid, like, did you have a friend where they were like your bad influence? Because I was... The bad influence.
In many ways, many ways yes I will say But I also think I had many friends I think we were renegades together to be honest Not in my formative years no No you didn't No Wow Because majority of the people that were around me Were handpicked by my parents Oh We come back to the cousins Exactly Even my friends It was really because my parents are friends with these people and then they'd be like we're going to so-and-so's house and then hey okay do we so as my friend i didn't like it's not like i sought out do we should be my friend it didn't work like that but here's my thinking and the approach and i obviously i think you're doing it well i think all you can do look at it like coding you just You just introduce the fundamentals, right? To your child. And then tell them- To my computer coding.
Yes. Okay.
But even with human beings, because essentially it is a system anyway. Because we're robots.
Because we're AI. Aren't we all? Aren't we all? Aren't we all? So you introduce these fundamentals.
Basic programming. I'll agree with you.
Sorry. This program is tripping.
I'll delete. Right? So once you've got the fundamentals in place and they understand them, and obviously you guys are in agreement with what the fundamentals are, then you can go to like intermediate programming and tell them, okay, well, now with these fundamentals that you fully understand, what do you think the right thing to do in this situation is? And then he will tell you

and then you go,

well, actually,

that is the wrong thing

to do, Alaka,

because if you do that,

for example, Isaac,

I know you're used to running,

but there's a possibility

you may slip

and you can get a glass

and you will get impaled

by this glass.

That's why it's rather safer

for you to just walk, right?

By running, yeah,

you save a little bit of time, but we're in no rush. Then it's like, okay, cool.
You're very logical. But that's how life is.
What else? You sound like you've never been a child. No, but listen to me.
Guys, I knew. Let me tell you something.
When I was opening the TV in the living room. Yes.
As in opening it like you want to see what's inside. Yeah, when I was unscrewing the whole thing.
Yes. I unscrewed the TV too But I had logic for it Okay I wanted to see how the TV works Oh same with me And as a result I was able to fix things at home I was a guy Like dude Maybe by like eight I was a handyman at home And my dad understood I couldn't have been the handyman Unless I broke my toy

But I'll tell you what

When things were wrong

And I fixed it

Without him paying a cent

Boy was he glad

I broke that toy

Okay

You see

So that's the immediate

You see what

Now here's the thing

Now that's funny

It comes back around to like

Is there a reward on the other side

There's always a reward

I'm told

I was a highly inquisitive child

I guess I still am

Even as an adult

Yeah you are

And the thing with questions is

Thank you. another side there's always a reward i'm told i was a highly inquisitive child i guess i still am even as an adult right and the thing with questions is you're just gathering data points that's all you do you're gathering data points and you're gonna later use those data points as you collect it and go oh okay well when i asked auntie anelio this she told me this isn't that so maybe i should go this way There's a lot of things I never got to experience And still have no inkling

I don't even want to experience them

But I've learned

Major lessons

From other people

And their experience

Of those things

So when you now

Withhold

Those answers

And you just

Because I said so

You nip it in the bud

By saying yes

Because I said so

You are starving Isaac

Of the data points he needs

Yeah

In order for him to be able

To come up with the decision

Which will then

Obviously make sense to him

Yeah

The wrong or the right

Let's go. Yes, because I said so.
You are starving, Isaac, of the data points he needs in order for him to be able to come up with a decision,

which will then obviously make sense to him.

Yeah, the wrong or the right.

All right, well, if you need, you know,

outside models, role models, you let us know.

No, no, I'm covered.

You must let us know.

I mean... But Mina, I'm probably going to say,

even at this age,

I will bring a little bit of bad influence, but always respectful thing my teachers Always said Trevor's very respectful But he's very troublesome He's very Disruptive in class But very respectful And Often times Does not apply himself But very respectful There was no disrespect In what I was doing Do you know what I mean? Yes ma'am, no ma'am

Yes ma'am, I was the one who

Put the firecracker in the toilet ma'am

Yes ma'am, that is correct ma'am

Why Trevor, why?

Because we wanted to see what happens

The thing about a child being inquisitive

As well is that it could be

On the bad side of things

Yes, that's what I see a worry as well

Because people always treat being inquisitive

Like oh, it's such a wonderful thing, it's a great trait

He's so inquisitive, but if he's inquisitive As to what's going to happen If at age 9 He takes the car Yes Right That's not a good thing I did that Yeah I thought about that About what? Taking the car Why didn't you do it? So Our driveway Was like A bit of an incline So when I was leaving I would have been fine But then when I was driving back The car obviously would have Like hummed a little bit Then I thought What if my dad thinks The car is getting stolen And then he shoots me Then I was like I would rather not take this car I didn't think the sentence Would end like that Me too I didn't think the sentence would end like that. Me too.
I didn't think the sentence would end like that. Yeah.
Wow. I thought grounded.
Like grounded or get a... No.
I thought, you know, what's the worst thing that could happen? He could think the car is getting stolen and shoot me. Okay, but now we mustn't stick on this one because everybody's got to worry.
Now we're going to spend the next hour discussing only my worries. But our worries are all the same.
We solve your worries. This is interesting.
Okay, so, okay, then let's... But wait.
She raised a very good point. We just glossed over it.
It actually is the answer. What? She spoke about his self-confidence, right? And belief in himself.
Okay. That actually is the answer to everything.
Because if, for example... I don't think it is, but finish what you said.
Okay, it answer to most things no no but keep going everything if his self-confidence is strong enough right peer pressure will never be an issue and we know for example that Alak is very smart already he's super smart so he knows what right and wrong is what usually sways people from wrong is the external influence if he's strong enough and

believes in himself he can say hey dude i hear what you're saying but that's not how i was raised

that's not how we roll and so already he's kind of insulated from the external influences of the

world not to say he'll never like go wrong but he's unlikely to go as wrong as other people who

are just amoebas and they go with the flow a lot of people end up in trouble like yo dude i don't

even want to be here i told you guys let's not go there now you're sharing a cell you see

Thank you. other people who are just amoebas and they go with the flow a lot of people end up in trouble they're like yo dude i don't even want to be here i told you guys let's not go there now you're sharing a style you see so i hear what you're saying one caveat i'd like to throw into this and one counter argument is if we live in a world where everyone completely believes in themselves i think we have a little less social cohesion we should never take for granted how powerful peer pressure is in society so when you're on the road and you see that you could drive in the emergency lane and just get ahead of everyone peer pressure is the only thing keeping you back yeah you might be like oh the police no no but beyond that there's an element of knowing that every other road user is in some way shape or form going to be against you And you're like I'm not going to do it When you're standing in a line At an airport Or anywhere else And you see that you could cut And you could get ahead Peer pressure is the only thing Like stopping you from doing You're not going to get arrested Do you get what I'm saying? I think there's a There's a weird balance And we don't know what the knobs Perfectly are But the world knows But the way you look It's interesting that you say that No can I tell you We don't know what the balance is are but the world knows but the way you look interesting that you say that no can i say we don't know what the balance is but the world always fine-tunes you so okay my argument is this and this may sound a little anarchist but it's not but like i don't believe we know and i don't think there is a right because i think every piece needs to exist so like on the one hand you need like a renegade to be like a steve jobs let's say where he goes no we're gonna do this and people like you can't do it and he's like we're gonna do it And then he does it and then now everyone's like oh yeah this is How it should have been but then there's also some Renegades who are like Jeffrey Dahmer Jeffrey Dahmer didn't suffer from peer pressure I'm Assuming I don't think he was like what Are my friends gonna say He did his thing he did his thing My friends were done So all I'm saying is, I believe that there isn't one fixed way or not way.

I think a system will always find entropy.

It will always find a place where it exists for the best of what it is trying to do.

But I think you can create a child,

or you think you can try your best to create a child

who does not care about what anyone else says.

And I think those types of people are assholes in the world as well because they don't care about what anyone else says. And then there are some people who care too much about what everyone else says and then they are at the whims of the crowd.
So Joe Biden's got a line, right? Joe Biden? Joe Biden, the rapper. I was like, that's your favorite? I was like, wow, this guy's about to quote Joe Biden.
I was like, damn, I don't think I've ever heard anyone quote Joe Biden. This is a rap line also, long before he did podcasts.
And he speaks about mama raised me proper. The streets just molded me.
The streets coded me, made me a better pedigree. Then he goes on to say things are complicated like Avril Lavigne said it'd be.
But that's besides the point. Basically, when you go out into the world, the world will either affirm you or it will challenge you.
Cool. Right? So, with your fortitude, you'll go there and then you'll be like, no, my friend, that's not how this works.
And very quickly, if you're a smart person, you will then learn, oh, damn, I'm wrong about this. However, if you are correct about your ways, world will affirm you And then you'll see

It's okay

This actually works

And that's how people end up rising

To a certain point

So okay

It's actually funny you say that

Because I think that's a perfect segue

To my worry

I agree

That the world will affirm you

Or challenge you

Right

But I don't think that

That is based in absolute truths

Thank you. Exactly, exactly.
So now let's go to my worry. The reason I say I think the global slash liberal slash whatever experiment has failed is because there was a time when many politicians around the world started to believe and i'm sure there was another time when this happened with trading in general but they said you know what we could be connecting the world in interesting and different ways you know you could you could make something in china or you could make it in any country where it's developing really and that means the country where they're selling it to they can focus on different types of labor they can be more specialized they can work in offices they can do this so they'll actually be selling a different product to the world their product might be a service it might be something digital and then the people who are using that they might buy something else and they might but we're all connected and then be a chain yeah yeah and we're all and it's it's the circle of life you know what i mean it's like this beautiful world where money's flowing from one place to the next and now and cizre you you're the economics guy so i'm sure you you can speak to it deeper than i can but like i feel like what happened was first and foremost the money dammed up in a way that no one really predicted so the money didn't move around the world it didn't stay in bangladesh and vietnam and all these places where the workers are making it it very quickly left those places yes and went into bank accounts in certain parts of the world right the people working even at these companies in those parts of the world it doesn't matter matter how big these corporations are.
But one of the things I find particularly interesting is how we've accepted this as normal, and maybe we won't for a while, where companies can hire people to help them make profits. Once they've achieved that profit, they can fire all of those people to help them make more profits.
So this is the profits right so so this is this is the second part of it why i think it's why i think it's failing i think we were never fully prepared to communicate with everyone everywhere all the time without understanding the nuances and the complexities that come with everybody's understanding of the world in the you know in the same way that we're worried about like What we say to aliens When they arrive

Not even when they arrive

You've seen we've sent

We've sent like things to space

Okay signals like

Yeah yeah

And we've sent capsules

Yeah okay

And then they'll choose

They go

We've put some Mozart

Some Beethoven

We've sent

But there's also like

Crazy shit we've sent

We've sent like a random

Like rock and roll song

That could sound like

A war anthem

I don't know

Or maybe Mozart sounds like

War to an alien

I don't know

Right

You really don't know

Thank you. We've sent like a random like rock and roll song.
That could sound like a war anthem. I don't know.
Or maybe Mozart sounds like war to an alien. I don't know.
Right? You really don't know. When you said we've sent crazy shit.
Really sophisticated fighters. The thing that came into my mind wasn't that.
I was like, oh. No, but we've also sent like plants and seeds.
And we've tried to send what we think encapsulates the human race is what we've done That is a very very risky thing Because what does Encapsulate the human race That's exactly my point Maybe each country should send something Even then and so now I'm saying Social media as a whole The whole connected idea of it Forget like actual social media I just don't think we ever prepared for it We never prepared for a message To cross borders and cultures In the way that it does It may connect us in moments But I think it's ripping us apart at the seams In more places than we ever thought And so I think That's why I think the whole thing is falling apart I think in South Africa Where we are at right now I think we're going to see more xenophobia. We're going to see more people not wanting immigrants to come into the country.
And in many people's defense, by the way, not just in South Africa, in the US, in Europe, etc. If we use the binary, we can be very quick to say these people are hateful.
It's very easy to do that. But the underlying issue is true in many places but i think you've got a global view because you are a global person right we can scale this down and realize that it's always been like that it's just that now we are aware that it's happening everywhere else as well let me take it back to south africa yeah a person who was raised in the hood and a person was raised in the rural areas they are aliens to each other okay so the hood versus the village essentially versus the village there we go but then even in america somebody was raised in the southern i'm a southern bell yeah do you know what i'm saying as opposed to somebody who was raised in new york those people are also quite alien okay yes right and that's now that is a country i just feel that because you've been everywhere in the world it is a lot more heightened for you that you think that No, no, but this is what I mean I mean that the experiment was It felt like it was working for a moment So here's the thing I mean, I can't speak to the second part of your thought process Because that's more sociology But the first one, which is economics That makes sense And even if you look any economic textbook, it really just, it dictates that things will be that way.
Because capital, by its very nature, is monopolistic. Right? Right.
There are four factors of production, we are told. We're told it's capital, labor, entrepreneurship, and then, I suppose, land.
But really, when you think about it, there's only one factor of production. It's capital.
Because with capital, you can buy the other three. Right.
That's why the effect has been that money has always pulled back to money. Yes.
Because once you've made the money, you realize, okay, I no longer need the labor now. I can build AI and that will substitute the need for labor.
Right. Okay.
I no longer need entrepreneurship. I can go to India and hire a CEO.
Okay, I no longer need, for example, land. Yes.
These are all the things. Capital will always supersede everything in a capitalistic society.
It's called capitalistic. Right.
I don't call it labor-istic. Or land-istic.
I want to live in a land-istic country. No, but so I agree And what I'm saying though is This was an experiment Remember we're always conducting an experiment Like you said with your son You're winging it We're also winging it I think this is something We should always acknowledge as people And I think not enough politicians do And not enough leaders do They make it seem like we know So I've seen people who talk about like socialism They know People talk about communism They know People talk about capitalism they know but i'm like guys you don't know we're all winging it with as much information as we have we're gathering data points as you say right so there was no communism until there was there was no socialism until there was there was no capitalism until there was right what i'm saying is this experiment that we're conducting now i worry That it's failing but i worry that it's failing because the reason i worry about it failing is because of the ramifications on the other side so but that's how revolutions come this is my point the reset everything has a reset you see this is my point i don't like your tone when you say these things siswa you say very no no no but he says it in a But he says it in a very...
Your tone is positive. But the message you're giving is like, you're like, yes, well, that's a revolution.
Because that's what happens. That's a reset.
And everyone's going to die. Yes, but your tone, you must deliver in like, well, that's a reset.
You are worried that you're living on the cusp. Yes, completely.
He wants to miss the revolution. We, not me.
Yes, all of us are. You want to miss the revolution.
No. You want to be here for it? No.
I don't want to be here for it. Trevor doesn't want to be...
Do you want to be here for a revolution? I mean, I think in many parts we... You want to be here for the revolution? No, I don't want to be here for the revolution.
Let me tell you something about a revolution. It's disruptive.
And nobody knows what comes out on the other side. Yes.
You think I have power. A revolution completely disrupts power.
You think, oh, but I'm of the people. Revolutions also squash the people.
And the outcome of a revolution is not predictable, right? Wasn't COVID a revolution? Oh, it wasn't. But Trevor's right in that it's obviously, it depends what sort of person you are, right? It's better to be living in very calm times and steady times.
Yes. But you learn a lot if you're living on the cusp because that's where majority of change takes place.
I mean, this is true. Yeah.
But if you look at us, we've gone, we literally went from analog to digital. That alone will blow many people's minds.
Yes. Crazy.
The things that we've seen. We went from dat recorders to CDs to cassette tapes to VHS to see your bro.
When I You know Maybe I think we've lived The revolutions I think you guys think I'm assuming like The violent ones You know No no no no no I just mean You mean a reset Okay So you're saying I'm talking about a reset And not a revolution Yes You're gonna have to then Give me the difference Between those A revolution You'll know'll know. Blood will be spilled.
Not necessarily blood will spill, but you wouldn't be sitting here talking about COVID as a revolution. You'd know for a fact.
Then give me an example of a revolution. Cuban revolution.
Yes. Well, Arab Spring somewhat, but regimes change.
Yes. Okay, violent then.
Not necessarily. Not necessarily.
They can be peaceful. Like in 1994, South Africa had a revolution, peaceful revolution More or less More or less No okay This is So this is what I mean I'll just throw them out at you And maybe you'll understand The picture that I'm seeing Let's say in America Right It was interesting to see How Even amongst themselves the trump mega crowd is experiencing like a fraying connection between the people yeah in a microcosm you look at the trump party i don't call it the republican party it's the trump party you would think within that world everyone would just be we know what we're doing We're doing it, right? Look at the thing that happened with Elon Musk and the H1B1 visas Elon Musk is rolling with Donald Trump They're like, hey, we know what we're doing We're planning this new world order Elon's like, hey man, I have a new best friend I paid $250 million for him So I want to hang out with him all the time Trump is like Trump needs his mom to come to me at 3 in the morning Trump is like You're a bit of a loser I wanted your money Go away That's Because you can see Trump knows cool and not cool Yeah Like you saw when Trump was sitting with Obama Ooh Say what you want But Trump was like You love that Trump was like This guy's cool Yeah You could see he was like All those fancy things of this He was trying to make him laugh Yeah And he was making him laugh Yeah Trump was like This guy's cool I need this guy's approval that exactly because trump knows cool say what you want about him say what you want to say what you want about him so when when i look at the elon musk thing it's amazing to see how quickly what i'm talking about is affecting everyone because elon musk and his people go all right now we know what we're doing.
Trump fans and supporters are like, actually, no, like Steve Bannon goes, no, no, no. Hey, I actually don't like this agenda.
Why are we hiring these people from India and from these places to come and work on these companies? Elon's like, because we need them. Then Steve Bannon's like, no, we don't need them.
We need them because we haven't created a world where Americans are the ones that are needed. Then the tech guys say, yes, but like Vivek Ramswami and Elon Musk, they say, yeah, but Americans are not trained enough and they're not smart enough.
Then these guys are like, oh, you're saying Americans are stupid. Is that what you're saying? They're like, no.
And then the other guy's like, yes, I am saying that. Then he's like, why don't we train Americans? Then he's like, no, because it's not supposed to work like that.
And then even within that little confine, you see the thing falling apart. The promise hasn't been delivered, right? Because white Americans were told, stop your factory things.
We got this. Don't worry.
So what's going to happen is you're going to just move forward, right? And your company, you're going to wear a suit and tie, and you're going to have a different job and you're going to get great money. Worked for a moment.
Then companies, as you say, capital does what capital does. Companies are like, we could actually make more money with less.
And why are we paying American workers when we could be paying people from India or Bangladesh less? And even if they come into the country, we can force them to work a ton of hours because what are they going to say? No? And they'll be a lot more appreciative of the dollar Exactly Because they have a visa To theitarianism Exactly And now Even within that tiny world You see the experiment failing And now there Steve Bannon comes and says Elon Musk is a white South African Who is racist And born from apartheid We cannot allow him Into the White House Now People watching this are like Wait Steve Bannon is saying This guy is racist No one knows what to do No one knows what do with it yeah no one knows but that's just one example then you look at south africa and how south africans are now going like actually actually no no we're not trying to help africa no no we're just trying to do our own thing then you look at europe europe's like no no no no close close here germany they're like hey man this whole immigrant thing actually no no no no no we're not we're not then you look at like banking you look at hiring look at ai itself we are on a fast track to people turning around and saying wait a minute if ai is doing every job who's doing a job and if nobody's doing a job who's buying things and if nobody's buying things what are we doing and this is why it's so interesting because all of it actually just boils down to economics and living conditions everything you've just highlighted is not a problem if people are comfortable yeah completely if we're all comfortable i love ai because who wants to work yes let ai work if you're all comfortable and you're telling me you want to bring in some indian guy hey by all means buddy do the thing there i'll suggest yeah that's true but you okay The's The problem is Now when we're starving They're like Hey man These foreigners Are taking our jobs That's the problem That is the problem Whereas if we were comfortable We'd be like Hey buddy Hey I got something here for you You wanna do this Cause I don't wanna do it That's essentially the issue And that's what I'm saying Has failed Yeah I'm saying the thing that was sold to people was prosperity for all.

That has not happened, whether it's South Africa, whether it's the United States, whether it's parts of Europe.

And it can never happen.

Wait, you think it can't happen?

Never.

Prosperity for all.

It can.

No, it cannot.

No, but it can.

Let me tell you why it can't happen.

Please tell me why it can't happen. Please tell me why it can't happen.

That even when we are, like you're saying, the Trump party, not the Republicans, even when we're all for one thing and we have one ideal, we're still going to disagree within that. But not fundamentally.
I think so. No, people are now disagreeing.
I hear you. Look at South Africa.
Look at the ANC. Yes.
Where we were all about one thing. Even when we get along, guys, even in a group of friends, you know that WhatsApp group where there was nine of you and the next thing in that nine, six of you slipped to the side.
Do you know what I'm saying? That is human nature. So, Anel is right.
There will always be disagreements. What I'm saying is when things are okay, the disagreements are inconsequential.
Yes. Exactly.
So, there can never be prosperity for all. Because in order for people to prosper, there needs to be productivity.
And the productivity needs to come from somewhere. Now, what happens is, you do get certain instances where there are more resources than there are those that defeat the resources.
What it means is, the model seems like it's working for a lot longer. But it's really not.
The model is always deteriorating. That's just the nature of the model.
You could be living in the Garden of Eden, but the more you procreate, the more you're going to run out of food in that garden. Don't go anywhere because we got more What Now after this.
This is where I disagree. I think a lot of the scarcity that we think is real in the world isn't real that's the first thing and i think a lot of it is created by institutions and companies that need you to consume so for instance a simple example is your phone right everyone has the new iphone until apple releases the next iphone it is literally even the day before launch you have the latest iPhone.
And then one day later, you now have an old iPhone, right? So you're right. The issue is not scarcity.
It's about the distribution of resources. That's, but that's why.
So what I'm saying is I agree completely. I'm saying we are, and we have been, and look, there may not be a perfect world for for this But I think There's also a lot of artificial scarcity And a lot of artificial I agree with you Distribution that has now And it's at an all time high Yeah guys I agree with you The perfect example is water Guys I don't understand how we live in a world Where water is owned by companies And we are all gonna have to buy water from corporations Guys everywhere in the world I read that about LA That a couple Owned over water in LA It's a farming Farming family They own like water You're like How do you own water? Who did you buy it from? But that's my point Who owned it before you? But that's my point Because the water Goes under my house as well How come I can't Stop the water Do you see what I'm saying? So now Cesar I get what you're saying Economically But I'm saying that's why all of these things i worry that we are going to hit too many at the same time okay and that thing is going to be okay it will be it will be i don't know if it will be a revolution but i think we are we are on track unless there's some sort of correction somewhere we are only on track for a like mask ending

correction type thing track unless there's some sort of correction somewhere. We are only on track for a

mass

ending correction type thing,

revolution, whatever you want to call it.

I cannot see another way.

Well, luckily, all of this has been thought of.

Even the thing you just mentioned

now about water going under your house.

For example, the Romans,

because they came up with land ownership,

they kind of, they basically had a definition of what land ownership is, right? It'll be, I guess, a square meters or whatever the measurements will be. Yeah.
And then it will be everything on and above the ground belongs to you. Everything below the ground that belongs to the state.
That's, for example, what our mining laws are based on here in South Africa, right? So if the water is flowing on top of your ground, that's your water. But the underground water is not yours.
Yes, but the problem is the state... Now, is it fair? It's obviously not fair, but I hear you.
Yes, and what is a state? A state is a collection of people. It's a fiction that we've all agreed to.
So now the problem is when the states sell it to private people, where do we end up? In revolution. So, by the way, Cesar is not helping me at all because he's affirming everything I'm saying.
Imagine if we were doing that with... But you know what he's saying? He's saying it was supposed to happen that way.
But you guys also did that with me, that it's supposed to happen. No, no, no.
It's like Nas' second album, it was written. Yes.
Thank you, Joe Biden. But here's what...'s what remember what my original statement was yes i'm worried that the experiment is failing because remember what we're also doing as humans is we're constantly trying to undermine the natural order of things we do it with our health right so back in the day your shoulder you would be gone now you may not be gone Yeah Right And I think this is something That's important to understand Is that One of the main things That makes humans humans Is that we've challenged The very fundamental order And nature of life And the world And we fight it And the progression Yeah But we fight it So we go Actually maybe you shouldn't Die of an infection.
And then you go, actually. Maybe you shouldn't die at all.
Remember the guy you interviewed? Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maybe you shouldn't die at all. Right.
So the reason I say I'm sad and I'm worried that the experiment is failing is because it was an experiment. People thought that if you put goods and services or if you say that things are going to be manufactured in poor countries it's going to bring them up and then that'll free up the developed countries to do different types of jobs and they'll bring them up and then they will sell their ideas and it'll bring them up and they'll this beautiful loop this beautiful loop this beautiful loop and we will all raise what is that rising tides raise all boats that's what we thought what we didn't know was Some people have boats That have water pumps And they're taking A lot more water And the tides Are not rising everything So now That's what I was saying Is my worry When my good friend Cesar was kind enough To say You see? This was a good episode And I like the fact That there's no solution We just threw a pump out there We're like like, bye.
Here's your worries, niggas.

Bye.

This guy.

That's it.

That's on you.

I actually see a very hopeful future

for your story

with your son.

Of course.

That's what I mean.

So I go like,

oh,

you just have a problem

or a worry

about a potential problem,

but I feel like

there's many solves

for the thing.

Is anyone leaving the house? That's funny So That's As a friend And then My friend has said to me No no don't worry All your worries are correct And it's gonna end That's what he just did to me You must never be a doctor By the way Actually he needs to be a doctor No No He would be the person Who just walks in And says to you You're out Statistically speaking You're gonna die anyway So I mean I don't even know Why you wanna do the surgery Save your money Spend time with your family You see That's what he would be saying to you No you should not be a doctor Be the shortest episodes Of house ever Ever Just walk in So okay Let's do C do scissors so your concern is you worry that so generally speaking um as you correctly point out the world is continually deteriorating yeah and i feel like wait i'm not saying continually let me be on record of saying that well i think i think we're in like cycles and I'm saying now. No, we are in cycles.
Okay. But obviously in the cycle,

it's continuing to disappear.

Okay, okay.

We haven't hit rock bottom yet.

Okay, great.

It's only going to stop deteriorating

when you hit rock bottom.

Then we're going to need to rebuild.

Okay, cool.

Now, I worry that in the short term,

because life is relatively short, right?

To raise a kid in that environment

is going to be very tumultuous.

And the tools that personally I had

to navigate the world, I see those tools becoming more and more useless every day. Can you give us an example of those tools? I mean, just general things.
Like, for example, bullying. A very simple example.
Yeah. Right? There used to be a safe haven for bullying.
These days, there isn't really. Sorry, sorry.
I feel like I'm Mishearing you

Safe haven for people

Being bullied

From being bullied

Yes

Oh okay

I thought you were saying

There was a safe haven

For bullying

That's funny

No really

Dude you're also

Like a weird thinker

You could be the kind

Of person who says that

Back in my day

Protect all bullies

Yeah you were like

Back in my day

Bullies could find a place

Dude

You're the kind of person

Who could say that

Look

Bullies do build character

Okay

But I don't think we need

I think... like back in my day bullies could find a place dude you're the kind of person who could say that look bullies do build character okay but I don't think we need this okay sorry so you're saying so you could get bullied what was the safe haven so you could get bullied and then at 2.30 the bell would ring and be like that's so great mom I'm going home now it follows you home then you'd be in your mom's car and then be like mom you never believe it these guys are gonna beat me up and then you pissed up right in time and now the guys are beating you up in your mom's car and then be like, mom, you never believe it.
These guys are going to beat me up. And then you pitched up right in time.
And now the guys are beating you up in your mom's car. And your mom's like, why are you in your screen? And they pummeling you.
You know what I mean? So that's just one simple example. Okay, got it.
And again, it speaks to that thing of yours, the interconnectedness. Because we didn't prepare for all of this.
100%. 100%.
And when you're a kid, you really don't have the broadened vision to know, actually, what I can do is just turn off my phone. Yeah.
I think as adults, we also don't necessarily have that. It took me, I'm trying to think of when this changed.
Maybe somewhere pandemic-ish, somewhere. It took me a long time to realize, if I don't know it, if I don't even acknowledge it, it's not even happening.
I know it sounds like a weird thing. People are like, no, but people are saying things about me online.
And I'm like, yeah, it's not really happening. Don't you feel like our youth kind of primed us for this, though? In what way? Specifically, like, our youth in showbiz.
Dude, we came out in a time where I guess the review would have been, A, the ratings, the show sucks or whatever. Okay, okay.
That's why when I see the kids that grew up now in the social media age. Yeah.
Right? And I see how seriously they take social media. And how they crumble when someone does say something.
I can understand it. Because for them, they were made by social media.
If you're made by social media, you feel like you can be destroyed by social media. Okay, to channel my very wise younger brother, he would argue that we and the youngest of our generation is experiencing that.
He says they're not. He's like you guys, like Bane.
He's almost like, ah, you merely adopted. You merely adopted social media.
I was forged in social media. Like, he goes, no, no, no, no.
You and your youngest think that. He says, our generation.
We're so robust because we were built by that. He's like, we actually don't care.
He says, we don't really care about the thing. And we don't.
He even showed me like aesthetically. I disagree with you.
No, but I'm saying he showed me like aesthetically. Go look at like Gen Z and lower.
Look at their Instagram, their TikTok. It's not aesthetic like millennials and above.

It's not, they're not trying to show you a perfect picture of avocado toast.

No, they just want to show you a vibe.

They might even show you the crumbs.

That's their picture.

And his argument is that we think of it

as being something that is infinitely harder to tackle.

But he's like, it is only the reality that they have

Right so he goes

I think your situation was worse

He's like because we entered striving

For perfection because we didn't know how this thing works

No but not even like he argues he goes

Yeah you get we get bullied online

But he's like but you guys got bullied like physically

And there wasn't really stuff you guys

Could do about it when it was happening physically

And then he goes I can make

Friends online I can look at a video on TikTok

About how to be a boxer but he argues that their reality is different to ours but it comes with its own pros and cons and they're fine with it yeah I think he's correct in fact in that analogy I would think I'm somebody like Tony Hawk I'm like the geriatric in a skate park. Oh, yeah.
That's how you are on social media. Because I'm with the kids throwing the mud.
Heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy. Because you were literally throwing the mud on the playground.
Okay. I think your brother's right, but I think there's very few of them that are like that.
The rest of them,

and if you had to look at the stats around,

you know, mental wellness and anxiety and all of that,

a lot of them are not thinking like that.

So for me, your brother is the hippie.

One thing I will throw into that.

Yeah, we'll wrap, we'll wrap.

One thing.

I'm reading late.

This nigga's even calling me.

All right.

So one thing I will say to that is, I think it's the same. Guys, one bully at my school terrorized three standards, like three grades.
One bully. Do you understand what reach that is? One, guys.
One bully would come to the tuck shop, the cafeteria for those in America, and would take anything and everything and do whatever so I understand what you're saying but I go I feel like we were also that generation I watched people get terrorized by one bully and a whole school could have done something and didn't do anything and we're all just like that's them you know you're just like pray to God they don't come your way and so what I'm arguing is I don't necessarily think that they are Softer or like I just think that Because it's so foreign to us We see it as being more that way But I don't necessarily think it's It's the same problems just a different iteration Yes but that's how generations are Yes that's what I think And then I actually think The mental health thing I think it is more important

To look at our communities

Like our real communities

Versus our social ones

I think

We take for granted

Forget the bully

Forget the social media

Forget all of that

We take for granted

What a physical touch was

Yes

Yes I got bullied

But at least my bully touched me

Okay

Do you know what I'm saying

At least my bully

At least I felt my bully skin

Even the like the like the

Alright you know what

We'll continue Thank you. I love you guys.
We love you so much. All right, go catch your flights.
Don't get bullied. Whatever.
Or if you do, make sure they touch you. The thing around touching is so that I can assess your strength.
Because when you are bullying me and you touch me I can assess okay maybe I can fight you one day but digitally I don't know what your strength is yeah that is one thing I think is worse that's the only reason I'll agree with you with the bully touching you okay I'll throw you another one that you might agree with and I mean this genuinely every kid who bullied me made you a better person no saw as a human being. And I saw them as a human being.
Because they didn't perpetually bully me. And they were not perpetually bullies.
They were kids who played sports, who ate food, who caught the bus. And then they were, the same way like your job doesn't define you, hopefully, in life.
They were like, no, I work as a bully. But I But I'm also still a human being They laughed I remember walking into school And the bully would be there and be like Trevor you And I'd be like ah bruh come on Again? Yeah and then he'd be like okay But tomorrow That for me I don't see anyone doing online Because I know this sounds like a crazy thing to say But even though that bully was a bully Because, because we shared the same space, because we breathed the same air, because we looked into each other's real eyes, I knew who that bully was.
I knew their name. I knew where they lived.
They were a human being. But that's because with digital, everything is just fleeting and passing.
Yeah, and fake. Yeah, but I'll raise you that.
People that I have squared up with on digital, there are people that have become my friends because every day we're going to have a go at each other. Really? Yes.
And then after a while, you're like, you know, you're not half bad because you must remember something. Somebody who's wrong can't be wrong all the time.
And somebody who's right can't be right all the time. Oh, I like that.
So even with people that I've disagreed with, you know, like aggressively on X, sooner or later, because you still get retweeted by other people, I'm like, you know, I usually speak nonsense, but today, I can agree with what you're saying. Right? So we're agreeing with each other.
It's just that with digital, there's this thing of, I've said it, it's done, my phone is off, I'm gone. Right? But now with your bully, they were coming back to you every day.
There was a chance of you seeing them again and again and again. So, back to what you were saying about community.
Think of the first days on Twitter. That was a community.
Yeah, it was. And I think right now it's just that you're dealing with, you wouldn't allow anyone to just touch you like that, even in your physical sense when you're a child, because you're like, I don't know you.
Yeah. I have a blue one.
Who are you? Who are you? Right? And I think that what you're going back to is that wherever you are, be it at work, within your family, whatever, just find your sense of community. It's funny.
You know, you say, yeah, there's something you stumbled on, I feel like, in one part. That's really special.
And that is is we've lost that even fighting at least you are connecting with another person I know it sounds crazy but even having a back and forth at some point you will see each other as people you know when Cesar almost quoted President Joe Biden let me quote President Obama at his first inauguration where he said, I will listen to you, especially when we disagree. You must listen to people that you disagree with.
And that's the problem with, I would say, the Trump party is that there's just a notion that I don't have to listen to you because I disagree with you. But what if in the two minutes of me talking, you agree with 30 seconds of what I'm saying? Now you're doing yourself An injustice Of just Totally disregarding me Because I'm not a Trump party Yeah but I think Both ways actually And I think that's I've always said America's biggest struggle For me in its politics Is that it is binary So Americans think And have been taught That it is this or that But now I realize And I realize every time I come home to South Africa I'm like wow we have such a complex A perfect example is the I'm an ANC bitch The woman on the FlySafir flight This is a black woman who gets drunk on a flight Starts berating the Flight attendants Throws things at other passengers And now passengers black and white alike team up against her to restrain her.
Yeah. But even then, the commentary of it, the pro-ANC people, they're against her.
And then black people at large are against her and white people. And I was like, oh yeah, I don't really see many of those types of things happen in America.
I saw a white guy coming up for her and he wrote a thread about what could have gone wrong and we must understand. I was just like, okay, we have reached Milele.
Exactly. So what I mean is like, when you are told that there is one of two solutions, you will then think that there's one or two solutions.
And so you will be forced to pick between one of two solutions. And you'll believe that if I pick one, I can't like certain elements of the other one.
Yes, because you've been told, whereas when you come from a place where they go, no, no, no, no, no. As you said earlier with the ANC, even the ANC was multiple coalitions in one thing, right? And that's what made it work because you know what you find then? You find accountability.
And me constantly having to behave in a way that proves that my theory is the one that we should go with, right? Now, when we're all thinking the same, right? When we're all thinking the same, isn't that a dictatorship? Yeah. No, this is not.
Actually, you know what's funny? You actually made me worry less. Oh, really? Yeah.
Okay. No, really, because I think to myself, even in the moment, this is going to sound like a crazy thing, even for me to say to myself, but like, the one upside of revolutions is that they bring people together.
Uh-huh. Or like one of the upsides, maybe, depending on where the revolution's going.
But it is like, you know, the people come together.

Like the, you know,

you think of like the Berlin Wall coming down.

You think of like the Soviet Union collapsing.

You think of Cuba.

You think, yeah, it's like,

it brings people together.

And maybe that's what we're living in.

Maybe life is a constant yo-yo

of humans being pulled apart and then being pulled back together and maybe we create things that pull us apart walls at our houses you know tinted windows in our cars things that isolate us and then something comes along everything from an earthquake to a fire and then you need that person and then all of a sudden yeah all of a sudden, we're now back together. And it's interesting to think of like us always being forced to come back together whether we like it or not.
Yeah, because... Like literally whether we like it or not.
Whether you like it or not. Humans are going to get forced to be...
We're going to be back here together. Yeah, and we don't know what it'll be.
Yeah. Huh, I like that.
See My worries left as well No But you need the Grimm The Grinch The funny thing is He's not even Grinch If he was a Grinch It would be better He's an AI It's his delivery of it You know like You know like when you watch those movies Where like Where like the robot just says Like straight up They just go like Humankind needs to be eliminated Then you're like Excuse me It appears to me that Being human is suboptimal Yeah but I'm asking you What's a better way to do my garden? The best way is to not have a garden It's gonna die anyway It's gonna die anyway The same way you will die If I end you Then you do not have to worry about the garden Yo yo yo Sizwe Sizwe I'm looking for a solution Yes and I've presented The ultimate solution to you Whoa Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Solution is death.
Yes, this is why you're a mom and he isn't. As a parent, you just have to be the eternal optimist.
And that's true. But then it's so difficult to be the eternal optimist, but then finding places to be hard inside of that.
Because you have to be hard at times. Because discipline has to happen.
Damn. You know.
So you know what it is. It's a yo-yo.
Yeah. We separate, but we're going to come together because somebody has to drive you to school.
I love that. Thank you, Anisi.
Thanks for joining me. Thank you, Jack.
Thank you. And thank you, Sisway, in your absence.
What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions.

The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jody Avigan.

Our senior producer is Jess Hackle.

Claire Slaughter is our producer.

Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown.

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