Sarah Silverman

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There's no free speech.

No, you can absolutely say anything you want.

And the thing that makes edgy or dangerous comedy so is that there are consequences.

Yeah.

Welcome back to Where Everybody Knows Your Name.

Today, I'm lucky enough to be with a stand-up comedian, actor, writer who radiates intelligence and charisma.

I had to spend most of my brain cells, not all, but most, keeping up with her because she is so sharp.

Sarah Silverman.

You know her from her many roles across TV and film, including SNL, Mr.

Show, the Sarah Silverman program, Wreck-It Ralph, and many more.

She's even written a musical.

We also got to work together on the HBO series Bored to Death.

Her new comedy special is out now on Netflix.

It's called Postmortem, and it's about grieving the loss of her parents.

Here she is,

Sarah Silver.

I know it helps your immensis if I massage your feet if you want that later.

Oh my gosh.

That was so fun.

I was dying to see their faces because I We're talking about bored to death and the scene that Jonathan Ames wrote and Jason and I did with you, where you played a psychiatrist who oddly wanted us to massage your feet.

Yeah, I made them rub my feet.

It was such a great scene for me.

It was.

And I never got my toes painted before.

Yeah.

But it was, I oh, I did just say, and then the craziest thing,

first of all, you are my,

one of my all-time favorite actors all time.

Woof.

Yes.

And.

At that time, you were also in damages, which is,

I don't know why that show isn't like the the hugest i mean that show was so brilliant and you were so mind-blowing in it but i in the scene called you by the frobisher's name frobisher yes i called what was his first name

arthur

i called you arthur

and i just remember you in the scene looking at me like huh and then they stopped the scene and i still didn't know what i had done but i called him by the other character's name because i was so completely entrenched in damages at that point.

But wasn't that

your character's excuse to ask us, or maybe it was part of therapy or something for us

to do something together, but it also helped your menses.

I just want to make sure

we all know that I was not just deciding that would be good for Sarah Silverman.

I made them rub my feet.

My character did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's like, takes a lot of focus to say lines when you're in deep relaxation and also

slight terror because it's my feet are

and vulnerable.

My feet are, you know, I've got this, that second toe that's, I have finger toes.

So I'm, you know, a little sad.

I don't remember anything, any fault of your feet ever.

No, sorry.

I can't let you bad mouth your feet.

Thank you.

You're right.

My feet are beautiful just the way they are.

Yes, they're strong and they work.

I can't wait to see.

And I thought, oh, because somehow it was in my research that I somehow would magically be able to see post-mortem before it's released.

Oh, no, they could have sent it to you.

No.

Yeah, I would have.

Sorry.

But, you know, don't worry.

Well, I'll wait.

I'll wait.

But I am so,

I cannot wait to see it.

I'm 77, and it's the time where you lose friends.

And we have sat with, I sat with my mother who came home to die purposefully and in her

vernacular, joyfully.

And we, Mary and I sat with, we cooked and took care of a friend of ours, Mary's lifelong friend, for two and a half months.

And it's one of the great,

hard privileges of my life.

And I cannot wait to see what you do.

with it in post-mortem.

Oh, yeah.

You're spectacular, by the way.

I'm being cool, but you are.

You are.

I love your stand-up.

I love your sense of humor, and I love your acting.

And I, no, no, but also maestro.

You are wonderful, wonderful in maestro.

Thank you so much.

You're really good.

You're a really good actor.

And Mary does send her love, and there you are.

Oh, I love her.

And

Charlie.

Charlie Mack,

who directed a pilot.

Yeah.

That did not go, but it was great.

And I i loved working with him i just fell in love with him with a kid yeah he's amazing yeah man man he uh man yeah he we just spent a month and a half in the same little house together he and uh lily collins um had their little tove who's now a little girl who's i think eight and a half weeks maybe nine weeks

eight years old oh oh delicious yeah scrumptious

life is very rich right now oh that's really lovely yeah that's great will you talk about it uh

your the event and your special post-mortem oh that the my parents my my dad and my stepmother died

uh it'll be two years ago in may now

and um you know we were really close i very you know

sadly rare kind of like I loved seeing them, you know, and they moved out here and they came to over every sunday and my sisters would come over and we'd have bagels and cream cheese and just belly laughs you know always

and uh i mean 20 questions was i don't talk about this in the special but we were just talking about it how everything was 20 questions we love playing 20 questions and it was so dark like you'd be like

Guess who we found out has cancer?

20 questions.

You know, it was like terrible.

I mean, not like, not to bring joy to it, but

I don't know.

We made everything a game.

But

my dad was hilarious.

You know, he was my best friend.

And

how old?

He was 85 and Janice was 80.

And like, they were totally young.

Yeah.

You know, they were

had all their marbles.

And my dad did stop driving after having

an accident.

And

he always would, you know, he returned his license, driver's license.

He didn't need to do this.

He just stopped driving, but he like wrote wrote a letter to the DMV returning his license.

And I am not capable of driving capably.

And, you know, that's hard.

I know.

I know.

But

yeah,

you know, my stepmother got diagnosed with

cancer and just stage four out of nowhere.

wasn't sick or anything and pancreatic cancer and

it was awful

and it was you know my dad was a total mess about it

and uh i remember comforting him because he was like i don't want to live in a world without janice and you know he's got a thick boston accent that wasn't a good example of it but and uh

i don't want to live without her and i i was trying to comfort him and i was like well you know statistically you won't but i didn't know that would come true you know but um

so did she pass away first?

She passed away almost four months to the day.

They were holding hands.

We were all there, you know, and he, he really could have like probably gone to the hospital and gotten better with his condition, but he just wanted to go, you know, it was one of those things.

Say it happened to Conan's parents shortly after.

But he just wanted to go.

He was happy.

The only thing that scared him was he was scared it was going to hurt.

Because I remember a few years ago asking him when he was over on Sunday, like,

are you afraid of dying?

And he goes, not at all.

I, I just don't want it to hurt, you know, but he always said, like, I don't remember before I was born.

I'm not going to remember after, you know, but um surprise.

Yeah, but he, he,

he, um,

he was scared it would hurt.

He was a huge pain pussy.

Like he, one time he got like EKG, you know, the stickers, he wouldn't peel the stickers off.

He was scared it would pull his hair.

He was like, I had to kind of, no, he goes, I'm going to let him wear off.

Yeah.

I have a picture of him like at the pool with like all these EKG.

He looked like a dog with, that just had puppies or something.

But

yeah, he was a real character.

And oh my God, like

people.

you know when we were just taking care of him and this was it oh and he the doctor told me so the doctor calls and says, This is it.

Your dad's dying.

He needs to go to the hospital.

And I said, I don't know what to do because we promised him no more hospital.

Like, he fucking hates it there.

And

the doctor said, Well, you know what?

You know, maybe he'd live longer if he went to the hospital, but there'll be hospital days.

And he's home, he's surrounded by family.

I think that's just the ticket.

And then he said,

And the way he's going to die is kidney failure, which just happens to be a painless death.

You're there and then you go into a fog and you're gone.

Wow.

And I was so excited.

I should have taken a beat, but I ran into his room and I was like, dad, great news.

You know, which is,

you know, it was though, right?

He was thrilled.

He really was.

He was so happy it wasn't going to hurt.

We all got into bed with him, like singing old camp songs.

He loved camp, telling stories and stuff.

And it was a great way to go.

How long was that process?

You know, it was should have been shorter.

It was, you know, there was that, and the same thing happened with his mother where he'd wake up and be like, I'm still here, like, ugh, like he was ready.

Yeah.

But what we realized, and I don't say this in the special, it was, it was,

oh, well, it was nine days.

It was nine days since when Janice passed.

And

he had a,

what's this?

Monitor?

Yeah, a

pacemaker.

A pacemaker, thank you.

The younger people in the room.

I mean, truly.

They don't.

I mean, his pace, they never took his, turned his pacemaker off.

So there was a part towards the end where I was like, I don't know why he's gone, but it's like he's gone.

But it was like he was a zombie.

Like he was just going like,

and he was going like this, you can't see, but like, like this.

And I said, what is this?

And because there was a hospice worker came and they said it's like scrolling his phone He's he's doing muscle memory things that his body

but um They turned they finally turned the pacemaker off when we realized they hadn't turned it off and then he peacefully went like that night, but um

It was oh, so people were saying goodbye people came by to say goodbye Jeff Ross, you know, the comedian Jeff Ross, he does all the roasts.

He was very close with my parents.

And

he came in.

Everyone called my dad Schleppe.

He goes, Schleppy, I got bad news.

I don't think you can be my emergency contact anymore.

And,

oh my gosh,

Jeff had introduced

my dad and my stepmom, Janice, to a friend of his who is a who's a magician.

His name is Bernie Shine, and he's older, and they became very good friends.

And about maybe six months earlier, they had gone to see him do a show.

So Jeff was sitting with my dad and he said, do you want me to FaceTime Bernie so you can say goodbye?

And my dad said, okay.

And he called him and he held it up for him.

And Bernie got on and he said, oh, Schleppe, I'm so sorry.

And my dad goes, Bernie, your show was so bad, it killed Janice.

And then he goes, and I'm not feeling so hot either.

He was so funny.

He was killing while dying.

And were you there when he passed?

I wasn't.

I left.

I went home to sleep.

Yeah.

And I knew this was it, but I don't know.

There was something.

Sometimes I think parents wait for you not to be there.

Yeah.

I mean, my sister Susie was there, and I think that she's the oldest.

And she was the one that if she walked out of the room, it'd go, where's Susie?

Where's Susie?

So I think he, and she's a rabbi, and I just think he felt like

he could die with her there, you know, but I went home to sleep.

And, but he was pretty much cognitively not there.

And

yeah.

My mother got pneumonia.

She was sharp, attacked, 88, 89,

and

slowing down, but totally there.

enjoyed her walks, all of that.

And she got pneumonia.

She couldn't shake.

And she had aspirated the night before before or something choked on something so she had horrible laryngitis couldn't really talk i flew in she's this was flat sedona arizona and uh my sister lived next door so she had been part of this whole process and i flew in and

we took her to a clinic in sedona as opposed to the hospital further away And the doctor said, I'm going to have to put you in the hospital, Jessica.

She went, no.

And he said, Jessica, if I don't,

you will die.

And she went, thank God.

Yes.

And it was so strange to go from keeping a parent alive, doing everything you can to make them happy and more energetic and live longer and all of that, to, oh,

we're now,

by her choice, happily, consciously wants to go home and be home and pass away.

And she was a very spiritual, religious woman.

And so it was real,

totally for her.

This was going to be a joyful event.

And we went home and the hospice person was there and they take you through what to expect, what your, you know, your body,

how it will shut down and how long it will take and all that.

And she

was so disappointed because she had, this is it.

I said, I'm coming home to die.

This will be fine right now.

And to hear that there were 10 more days, I think, kind of disappointed her.

But she couldn't talk.

And they said, and at some point, we will give you morphine so there will be no pain.

And she went, no.

And she said something that sounded like burn.

And

my sister and I literally were playing

charades with my mother, trying to figure out what it is she meant.

And we finally pieced together she wanted to burn.

And then it kind of dawned on us, oh, in some religious, philosophical, whatever, if you choose to consciously suffer at the end, you can burn off

karma, you know, or you can, whatever, you know, burn off some of that stuff that you want to not go to this next place with.

Oh, wow.

And so, by God,

that was her.

And then her voice came back, and we spent about a week of pulling her up to the dining room table.

And my only regret is

she told a joke, a genuine joke that made everybody laugh.

And I cannot remember what it is.

I would have loved.

to have known what that, you know, my mom's last joke was.

It's so funny because my brain went to what a comedian would think, which is kill her right away let her end on that

get the whole i was sure that's where you were going oh yeah no of course you went a remote oh yeah and i woke my sister up several times because i took the night shift and uh

talking about you know bodies y'all can tune out now or tune back in whatever you want to do this this i like this conversation i do too um

she

she had kind of left although her body was still pumping away she was no longer able to open her eyes or anything, but her body was going.

And

then I watched her stop breathing and I counted and then I looked at my watch and counted and I picked up the phone and I called my sister.

Janny,

mom's passed through.

Oh, wait, hold on.

Boop.

And another day and a half.

It's so strange.

It's so, and it's, you know how like watching childbirth, for me, like, you're like, oh my God, we're animals.

We're animals.

And death is similar where you're like, we're like animals, you know, like, it's so interesting.

And it's, and, but it, we're kind of, I mean, you,

I was just going to go in a really rookie place.

I don't even know.

Not a complete thought, but just like, I always think like when you see the deep ocean or you see the outer space or you see like molecular

like inside of our bodies, it always looks the same.

And there's like, there's some kind of connection.

Yeah.

I don't know.

But someday we might.

But yeah.

Yeah.

That was the other thing that happened to me.

Sorry.

I'm full of like, I had read over the years this book and that book and studied with so-and-so.

And I had all my little spiritual, religious,

you know, philosophical thoughts.

And I watched my mom towards that last day or two going,

and all of those thoughts went flying out the window.

And I realized, I don't know.

I don't, she may be about to know, but I don't know.

And I kind of left that from that moment on.

And I

try to be a little bit better every day.

And that'll do it, Teddy.

You know, just do that.

Yeah.

The rest you'll find out.

I mean, I have no religion, but

grief.

felt like the closest to that for me because it's

we're trying to understand something that is maybe beyond our comprehension, you know, like a sister, we're on our sister's chain, you know, on WhatsApp.

And one sister will be like, you know, two birds landed in my window, and I know it was them.

And we're like, it was them.

And I go, well, this must be, this is religion.

You know, it's trying to understand something that is

very possibly, at least for now, beyond our comprehension, you know, but I, you know, I'm interested.

But

even like, I wouldn't even call myself an atheist just because i think that's as

definitive as saying like plus could be religion is this that's a real hard belief that's a belief system that's a belief you believe this is what you believe you know and it's uh i love well there's a relig a kind of religion or a theory that i always was so tickled by called last thursdayism

And it's the belief that everything was created last Thursday.

And you can't disprove it because even our memories, even what we perceive as history, everything created last Thursday.

And I just like that it can't be, if the onus is on you to disprove it, you can't necessarily disprove it.

But

that's great.

Last Thursday is

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So for now, something completely different.

I fucked Matt Damon is the funniest thing.

I, for some reason, missed that huge cultural event.

It was huge.

It was, and it's so long ago now, but I watched it maybe a year ago and I was like, this actually holds up.

It does.

It was great.

So much of my comedy and comedy in general, just not evergreen.

But that one felt pretty evergreen.

Who came up with that idea?

It was

someone between two writers on Jimmy Came Alive, Tony Barbieri and Sal Icano, Jimmy's cousin Sal.

And they had some kind of idea.

I don't know if it was to be a song or not, but I was on tour and I was going through Miami and that's where Matt Damon was at living at that time.

So we planned to do something

when I was there.

And it was, I remember I was there.

You were with Jimmy at the time.

We were together.

We were a couple.

And I remember I had to lie to him about where I was on tour.

And I, I'm not good at that at all.

I was just, you know, but I go, okay, just commit to this.

But the night before we got together and we just wrote the song in a studio and recorded it.

You and Matt.

No,

me and sal and and um tony and a producer in miami there we wrote the song like in a fury of just like what

and we recorded it and one of the guys did matt's voice then we had three hours at this hotel the next morning and matt had given us also three hours because he had to be have a heart out at noon because of his daughter had a halloween pageant nice but he was all in.

Oh my God.

He was amazing.

And they'd already had that battle, he and Jimmy, the Matt and Jimmy.

Well, that was actually an idea that I had, which was Jimmy at the time,

he couldn't get, I remember his second guest was a man with the longest arm hair, but like it was really slim pickens.

He couldn't get anyone.

And he was like, embarrassed, you know.

And I said, you should say,

take the biggest movie star, you know, Matt Damon.

Say, sorry, Matt Damon, we ran out of time at the end of the the show you know and he started doing that and then when matt be started engaging in it he was like i want to do this but don't ever stop doing it and i think he still to this day says sorry matt damon ran out of time

so um

he came in and learned it in a closet in one of the hotel rooms recorded it his part and then we just played the audio and lip synced it and we had like four different locations and it was just like run and gun and it came came out so great and it's i think you'd like this story we were remember we were standing with all the there were dancers there's one part with like dancers and we're all in red uh outfits damn it he did that fitted he fit that in that three hours that was all in three hours wowing it recording it and shooting it it was like just run and go and run and go

and uh but there's a moment where we're kind of standing between shots and the dancers are around and we're talking about movies and um i said did you ever see the

DV, did you ever see the

DVD of, you know, DVD at that time of The Shining?

Cause I wanted to talk about there was like this featurette on it.

That's incredible.

So I go, have you seen the DVD of the shining?

And one of the dancers cut in and goes, I was going to say you look like her.

And we just started laughing so hard because it was,

you know, you don't listen.

She's a lovely, interesting looking woman,

you know, but that, what did he think I was going to say?

Have you seen The Shining?

I look like Shelly Duval.

But it was so uncomfortable.

And we were just, it was like that crying, laughing, you know, because it was so funny in the moment.

But

yeah.

So wait, let me keep going.

Cause when I did

Jimmy know anything about this?

Nothing.

So when he cut We'll Be Back, when you showed it on air,

that was his first time seeing it?

Yeah.

And he

acted mad because he felt like he needed to, but he loved, you know, he was, he was, he loved it.

And I remember we were brushing our teeth

before the show, like in his dressing room.

And he goes, everyone says this video is great.

And I go, I mean, keep your expectations low.

It's just a, it's just like a funny video.

Cause I, you know, but it really,

it really was kind of of one of the first

like viral videos.

Yeah.

And it's so funny because after that, people would,

would try to hire me to make a viral video.

And I was like, you, I, everyone wants to make a viral video.

That's everyone's intention, I'm sure.

I don't, you know, I don't, that's not something you can make.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But yeah.

When I watched it, I went, oh, wait, did he?

No, he must have known, but he played it.

He did not know.

So well.

He knew there was a video.

And it was for, I think, his,

maybe his birthday or the five-year anniversary.

It was supposed to be for his birthday.

And then that was around the writer's strike.

So it must have been 2007 or eight.

How did you get the

courage to go anywhere with your comedy?

I am so full of shoulds and should nots in my life, you know, raised by the people who said, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all, kind of thing.

And yet comedy depends on

surprising and delighting and going where no man has gone, woman has gone before.

That takes a lot of guts to do that.

Did you always have that?

Did you always have the, I'm okay to shock you right now?

Yeah.

And I mean, listen, I got famous from comedy that I would

not do today,

you know, because it's not evergreen.

It's funny.

I started out as a.

What do you mean?

Because

it's not evergreen.

It's racist.

And, you know, and in my view, it was like

it was, I wouldn't have articulated it this way, but I articulate it now, which is like, I'm liberal.

I'm not racist.

So I can say racist things in comedy.

And in this moment in time, I would not do that.

And I wouldn't feel, but I do accept that comedy is not evergreen.

And I, you know,

I

accept myself and everything I am and have changed into and

even

the girl I was then.

And a lot of the comedy was great, but there's a lot that is, you know, I can't watch now.

But in my mind, I had, I was playing a character that was an ignorant, arrogant person.

And the irony as I look back on it was that I was actually a ignorant ignorant and arrogant person.

But I got, and I, I got.

Do you really feel that way?

Yeah.

I mean, I do.

I watched it today and yesterday.

So that's.

You watched my first special, Jesus is magic?

Parts of it.

Yeah.

Parts of it are great.

Parts of it are like, wow, you know.

Sure.

But I mean, don't you see people now still pushing the envelope with everything, including race and gender and all of that.

Totally.

And I think there's probably a great way to do it.

There's probably a cheap way to do it.

But for you, it doesn't feel right anymore.

I'm not it as a blanket.

You know, there's always an angle.

There's always something interesting that I, yeah, I mean, I'm interested in it.

And that's why I came, I talked so much about race in the beginning because I was interested in it.

It was,

and I, and also in my, in my view, is playing a character that said the opposite of everything I felt with the, with the,

with the hope that the kind of absolute value of that, to use a math term, is what transcended.

It did.

It did.

I think for a lot of people, it did.

But I do think that

I'm a big Law and Order fan.

And as Jack McCoy would always say, is like, you can't unring that bell.

So if you find that this, you know, it's like, I remember when it wasn't that long ago, when Bill Maher said the N-word

on an episode in a, in a joking

way that was

anyway, but the following week he had

some like black thought leaders on.

And

basically,

I remember Ice Cube was also on and he said, like,

you're cutting people.

There are people that are cut from just that word, you know, and

you can know that and you can still say it.

But But as Jack McCoy, that's what I was getting at, would say, you can't unring that bell.

So if you know you're hurting people, listen, I still do pretty hard comedy, and there are going to be people that don't like it or are offended by it.

And there's only so much I can do.

But in like large swaths, in ways where I saw a lot more of the world when social media came along,

I remember going,

This is so embarrassing, but I remember going like, oh my God, there's like an epidemic of cops killing unarmed black teenagers.

And then it was just a few beats later when I went, oh, right.

That's how it's always been.

And I'm just seeing this now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, you know, I mean, listen, I

love being changed and I love learning new things and being like changed at a, from a, at a molecular level, level from,

I can't put words together, but you know what I mean.

I think we all, I, I went through the thing of, well, my, I know what my intention was.

I had a pure heart.

Doesn't matter.

No.

It doesn't because things live forever, especially now things live forever.

And somebody who thought one thing of you and then sees this thing, then you are cutting them.

Yeah.

And also, listen,

this is hard for comics.

And a lot of comics get so pissed at me when I go, oh, I wish I could erase that, but I can't.

I can just only be changed.

And I do accept myself or whatever.

Or if I've apologized a couple of times for things I've done in the past, and I

don't apologize if I'm not sorry.

I like that quote.

And then I always apologize when I am.

It's like so simple.

But I'm bad at apologizing for things that I are bad.

It's hard.

It's like a comma.

It's very hard for men, too.

Say the word sorry like commas.

Like what?

Like it's a comma.

I say I'm sorry way too much.

Oh, you say it too much.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

So, I mean, I'm all right with saying it when I should say I'm sorry, but I also say it just like.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's probably, sorry, don't hit me.

Sorry.

Sorry.

Well, that's like someone once said,

what we say to our dogs is what we want to hear.

And at the time, I thought about what I would say to my dog all the time.

And it was, everybody likes you.

But the example that my friend who told me this said was

they had an older hunky actor friend, and he would come over and he'd go, Oh, you're old, but you're still sexy.

Yeah, yeah, that's what I want.

Yeah, I'm gonna start saying it to my dog.

You still got it.

You got it.

But

yeah, I don't know.

I, you know, there are comics and there are people who are like, you can't even say anything anymore.

There's no free speech.

No, you can absolutely say anything you want.

And the thing that makes edgy or dangerous comedy so is that there are consequences yeah right so like they they have any consequence and they're like oh you can't no you can say it it's very brave if you do and then you suffer the consequences right i mean it's so wild when people when the comics comics that sell out you know stadiums that are like i can't even say anything anymore like I'm pretty sure you can say anything you want.

Yeah.

And you'll be criticized or not.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then you can take it or you can be changed by it or you can not be changed by it.

And there you go.

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Okay, so I am going to change because I am curious.

Have you ever directed a movie?

No.

Aren't you thinking about it?

I don't.

I

yeah, well, now I'm thinking about it only because

I just joined the director's guild because I directed my special and I didn't know I'd have to direct join the director's guild, but I guess I did.

And so now I'm in it.

And I was like, well, I should direct something.

You should.

You're hired to

star in it.

Oh, yes.

Okay.

You do need older people standing next to young people.

You don't realize how young those people are.

So I figure I've got a job forever.

Oh, my God.

You're, you're a, you're gorgeous and brilliant.

See, that was false humility.

Thank you, but go on.

This is what I was trying to elicit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is, you've, I feel like you have not even reached

the sweet spot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It is so, so egotistical.

I, people ask me about career, and I don't want to think about career because that ego in me goes, no, you haven't really done it yet, Ted.

And I know that's insane because I've had lovely blessings and wonderful writers and all that stuff.

for so long.

But I do feel that way.

I, you know, I'll, in a rocking chair, when I'm immobile, I'll think about my career.

No, I think your career is mind-blowing.

And I honestly believe that

you have not reached the pinnacle of it.

I've said this without you in the room.

I feel this way.

I find your acting absolutely thrilling.

This is so cool because

I knew how much I liked you.

And I've been around you.

And

I know you're totally wonderful to be around,

but you're so smart, bright, and fast that I thought I was a little nervous to be talking to you because you're so smart.

I know.

That's my truth.

And now I'm just a pussycat.

I am so mellow and happy.

All those things.

Oh, I can tell you fun

memories I have with just the few times we've been together.

Let's do it.

We'll just fade the sound as we go out of you complimentary.

Remember when songs used to fade out?

Yes.

It was interesting.

Like, how do they do that live?

Anyway,

yeah, I'm smart and bright, but I'm not fast.

I'm slow.

Slow.

Like, I don't know.

My brain doesn't.

Yeah, I don't think fast.

Terrible at improv.

Me, me too.

I get scared.

I will improv.

I mean, improv is really just working off the other person and

not saying no, kind of.

Right.

Basically.

Yeah.

You know, and it's what you're taught in acting classes.

You know, don't do anything until the other person makes you.

And so

I don't know where I was going with this.

Oh, I think in a scene, it's you could do it because you're just being truthful with the part that you are.

But like when you go see an improv show,

I'm not that kind of comedian.

Where they wrap it up.

They wrap it up and bring it back.

And an hour later, they yes, no, I couldn't do that either.

I'm going to tell you a story that you, and I'm going to try to remember it, and then you can fill it in because it's a story you told when I did Bored to Death.

And it was so funny where you, everyone was getting into

having beehives to save the bees.

And you and Mary had just bought the whole thing, the outfits and the equipment and everything, but then you never did it.

And then you ended up just wearing the outfits for Halloween.

For many years.

Many years.

And then also we even bought fake bees so that they could hang from our

fake bees.

Yeah.

Actors.

I mean, we had the bees and we were going for it.

And then we got, we went out and bought the wardrobe because that's important.

Yes.

And we looked fantastic.

And then we both got jobs out of town.

When we came back, the bees had swarmed and left.

They were so totally bored.

But we loved our outfits and we made use of them.

I love it so much.

And then also,

we were talking.

We had so much.

I had such a good time talking with you guys and just gabbing in between shots.

It was just a fun

set.

Yeah.

And

you started talking about

something that happened while you were doing Becker and Jason Schwartzman was like, Ted, and he goes, and you go, I'm sorry.

He doesn't, He doesn't like when I talk about the Becker years.

It's just so funny.

I'm not reiterating it well.

It was so good.

I've never had more fun.

That was a great trio.

The dynamic between you guys.

Zach Alvanakis was just.

Oh, God, right.

Zach was in that.

Yeah.

He wasn't in your scene, but.

And what a mensch.

What a mensch.

Yeah.

His wedding.

And that was the other story.

I was sitting with you guys at the wedding.

That's right.

And I just remember

a couple of things from that wedding, that one with you, which is

someone was making a toast.

And this happens to you all the time.

And then the toast was over, and everyone was to say cheers and clink glasses.

And you were across from me.

And I went,

and you were like, I know, I know.

Cheers.

But the other thing about that wedding was so great.

And the thing I loved the most was, I don't know if you remember this, his brother Greg.

Greg, yeah.

Yeah.

You know, he's from North Carolina and, you know, and his brother Greg got up and made a toast.

And all these brilliant, pithy, you know, comic minds had gone up and give these, gave brilliant toasts.

And here comes his brother.

And his brother's like.

It was just such a beautiful flip.

He goes, he tells a story.

And I think everyone, everyone, we're all kind of our hearts are sinking because he's like, you know, I was, you know, I'm Zach's big brother and I would bully him.

And I remember one time I pulled all his clothes off and I pushed him outside and I locked the door.

And he's saying it like it's funny.

And I think all of our nerd hearts were breaking like, oh, he's a bully.

And he ends it by saying, and you know what Zach did?

And then he gets completely choked up.

And he said,

he loved me anyway.

And it was like it went from a bummer speech to the most beautiful speech I've ever heard.

It was so beautiful.

I also remember Zach's

vows where he

broke into tears four or five times.

Yeah.

And then he finally finished.

Then he went to

Quinn, his wife.

Top that.

Well, I guess

the galafanacus men are big criers yeah

marriage how do you feel about marriage you know never was

never

one way or the other no never was i never wanted to get married i just never i always with people would push it off and then with my love now rory

five years ago i said well Let's wait five years and we'll talk about it.

And he goes, recently, well,

this august is five years and i was like what i realized is i mean i love him and i want to be with him forever

but i don't know marriage

of course started out as like you're the woman was property and of course it grew into something equal and beautiful but now in this world it feels

like property.

I know that wouldn't be for us.

I just, I don't want to do it.

I don't want to get the government involved.

I don't want to get this government involved.

I will sign, I will promise him to love him forever.

I know many couples that have never gotten married and are madly in love with each other.

Yeah, and I also don't want him to relax.

Nice.

Okay, this is the first thing you said that really makes sense.

Yeah, you know what I mean?

I don't want him to relax.

I want him to always try.

And he does.

He does.

Boy, Mary's got me on my toes.

I find her the most fascinating

person I've ever met.

And

one day my farts are funny.

The next day

she's outraged.

I can never quite tell where we're going to go.

It's so true.

Have you got to hang with her?

No, not

just in

split seconds.

Oh, I love her.

I love women who are sisters.

I love women who love love men, but are sisters.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

It's like you have your girlfriends and they're your ride or dies and sisters too.

I have three sisters.

My wife is a full-on feminist and you never know it.

Do you know what I mean?

It's not like, it's not something she wears on her sleeve because she also happens to love men.

Yeah.

You know, but

don't, don't, don't get confused.

Well, feminists look like all sorts of people i bet you're a feminist i am in the may in the making i i yeah no not in the making in the constant growing and learning yes i i i was stunned

to discover that 90 of what comes out of my mouth is mansplaining and i don't mean just technically i mean i

do it

you know constantly But I mean, also sometimes like Rory will go to explain something to me and he goes, well,

do you want me me to tell you what I know, or would that be man's like, No, no, no, I want, I want you to tell me what you know, you know, like, but it's nice that he takes a beat.

Man explaining is when the woman has to patiently go along with it to not hurt the person's feelings, but they already know

this information, yeah.

Women aren't perfect, but the thing is, we've we have all been raised in a

toxic

patriarchy, and it's hurt all people, you know.

And I mean, listen, my boyfriend Rory is, you know, just

in these past years, realizing

what he was raised in and what he was terrified of to be called gay.

You're gay.

You know, he's, he's working on it.

I think he's working on stand-up around this, and it's so brilliant, but just the conceit is just, he was so afraid of being gay, you know, quote unquote, whatever, like, you're gay, gay, you know, whatever that would mean, but

that he didn't experience things.

You know what I mean?

Like, he kept himself from doing any kind of thing he might be interested in because of terror.

I mean, masculinity is terror.

It's fear.

It's fear-based.

I mean, that he would say the thought of being sad or expressing a vulnerable feeling was not an option.

So, what he's fighting now and unlearning and re-educating himself is

that what would happen is he would feel, and this is true with so many people, and specifically men, is you feel shame or you feel sadness, and it instantly converts into outward rage because that's the only emotion that's okay for a man.

Do you feel this?

I don't know.

I, um, I mean, you're really one of a kind, but not really, but um,

I'm also full of shit.

And

Mary calls me her faux Christ, F-A-U-X.

It's like I'm always pretending to be holier than thou and all of that.

But I was raised.

Yeah.

I never had, it didn't come up.

Where you were allowed your flesh.

Here's my problem.

That's the biggest thing.

I saw my father who kind of not emotionally available.

He loved me.

He was proud of me.

He was all of those things, but he was not really truly emotionally truthful with himself.

And so I'd see, so he'd be gruff when he got to an emotion or something.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Right.

And I'd watch then my mother.

be kind of the pacifist and the understanding and the taking care of people's feelings.

I went, okay, I'm going that way.

But that way wasn't a choice.

It took me

therapy in many years into my 40s before I went, okay,

yes, I am the

silhouette won't change that much, that I am a sensitive, kind, nurturing, thoughtful kind of person.

But I'm also an asshole, a dick, and a vengeful, pissy little.

You know, all of those things are true.

And if you, but if you don't acknowledge the dark side of yourself, then when you be nice, you're not, you're, you're choosing to be nice if you know that you're both.

Yeah.

And I wasn't allowed to be both.

I was only allowed to be kind, gentle, nurturing, and all of that.

So I'm getting better.

That's interesting.

I think that's a unique,

fairly unique male experience in America, would you think?

There are more out there than you'd think.

I really do believe.

But no, it's not the vocal, verbal one you get thrown at you most of the time.

Well, the loudest.

You know what I mean?

I mean, and also there are

there are just things men,

good, kind,

loving,

you know, eager to do the right thing men have no idea about the female experience because whereas women have always had to be able to see the world through a male lens in order to survive, men don't need to do that in order to survive.

So, there are so many things that I'll tell Rory that he absolutely never knew about women or women's rights in this country.

We're so entitled that it's hard to let in how entitled we are as a male.

I said, When do you think women got the right to

get a loan at a bank?

God, when was it 1988

without her husband's signature?

And yeah, wow, I was 17.

That's crazy.

Yes.

When is it that women get equal pay?

Oops.

Not yet.

No.

Not yet.

And people say, well, women only get paid 77, 78 cents on the dollar.

That's white women.

Yeah.

And in closing.

I am so tickled pink to sit next to you and talk.

I admire you so much.

And I'm sorry I don't,

that I put up all these barriers of who am I.

I I just have had so much fun talking to you.

No, I and you're so sweet and generous.

I love you.

I want to be friends in real life.

Yeah, and you would love, love Mary.

Come on.

Rory and I are going to come visit you.

Yeah.

All right.

That was truly an honor to have that time with Sarah.

I delight in how bright and serious and funny and fully human she is.

I hope you love that as much as I did.

That's our show for this week.

Special thanks to our friends at Team Coco.

If you enjoyed this episode, send it to a loved one.

Find us on YouTube where you can watch full-length episodes.

As always, subscribe on your favorite podcast app and leave a great rating and review on Apple Podcasts.

We'll have more for you next week where everybody knows your name.

You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes.

The show is produced by me, Nick Liao.

Our executive producers are Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and myself.

Sarah Federovich is our supervising producer.

Engineering and Mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez.

Research by Alyssa Grahl.

Talent Booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista.

Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Yen, Mary Steenbergen, and John Osborne.

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No worries.

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