Tom Selleck (Re-Release)

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What a great story.

It is.

I put it in the book, so I hope this.

Yeah.

Welcome back to where everybody knows your name.

Thank you so much for revisiting all these great episodes with me over the past few weeks.

Next week, we'll be back with brand new conversations.

But today's episode is one of my favorites.

It's with a true gentleman, my old friend and colleague, Tom Selleck.

He said it was the first podcast episode he ever did, so, hey, we made history.

Tom spoke with me about how he got discovered, working on Magnum Magnum P.I., his experience with Mae West, and we reminisced about the making of the three men in a baby movies.

We also talked about the memoir he was writing, which came out later.

It's called, You Never Know.

Meet My Friend Tom Selleck.

I can't tell you how excited I am.

I get to sit with you for an hour and chew the fat.

Yeah, well, we used to do that.

Not for a full hour.

No, I mean, and not for a long time.

Yeah.

It's so funny that

I have moments with you that kind of marked

maybe your career a little bit too, but definitely my career with Magnum and Three Men and a Pokemon.

I know them well.

Yeah.

You remember your Magnum episode?

Yes, completely.

Literally, I do.

It was monumental for us.

I remember.

First off, it was also the day you got picked up for season two.

That's exactly right, Because we had done 13

in our first season, and we were doing pretty good, but

you never know.

And that was the day we found out.

But it was also

monumental because I could kind of spot you because you were smart enough.

You were playing the bad guy,

who wasn't supposed to be the bad guy, but

a wimpy husband.

Let's tell the truth.

Murderous, wimpy husband.

But often episodic TV level, you get an actor, and just they have to prove they're going to be the bad guy.

And you wouldn't do that.

But here was the monumental thing for you.

I remember.

We're on a boat.

Yeah, we're on the boat.

You have to get stupid, which you did.

You had a gun.

So, of course, you got stupid enough to let me kick it out of

your hand.

And then we fight.

and

you go over to the

the boat and pull out a big grappling grappling hook yeah

and andrea markovici playing your wife girlfriend um was behind me

and you're you're you're acting up a storm yeah acting your little brains out with this grappling hook and i go wait a minute stop stop shooting stop yeah we need i said i can't do this

Look, I had done so many cliches by then,

and we were going to get into that.

I said, he's got a grappling hook.

And she's back here.

I got the keys to the boat.

Why don't I just grab her, dive in the water, and run away?

And that's what you did.

They really freaked out.

Oh, no, because we weren't allowed to change anything because everybody, the writers were back in L.A.

Dawn, right?

Don.

Yeah.

And

three hours ahead, or it was hard to get them underneath.

Well, it was three hours

behind.

So they were getting later.

And I just said, I can't do it.

And

it was a seminal moment for us.

I ended up diving in the water.

Then I wasn't worried about you.

I think you dove in the water another way and you're run over by a boat.

Yes, I think I get mine.

You got yours.

But you weren't.

It was so much change in the show and commenting on those kind of cliches

that

helped us make our mark, I think.

And it was that show.

I didn't know whether you remember the great show.

Oh, totally.

Totally.

Well, I think we had about two hours where we sat around and talked.

Anyway, and I think within a year, you were doing cheers.

Yeah, about a year, I think.

Yeah.

God, I remember you,

it happened fast for you, the mega stardom-ness of being magnum.

I remember you had a

bus.

It wasn't like a trailer.

You had a bus that they could drive you.

It was the big motor home.

Right.

I didn't graduate to the rock and roll bus yet.

No, never.

But man, I remember when they would call you to come to the set, they had to bring you through throngs of people who wanted to hang out with you.

Yeah, and that's, you don't go to school for that.

No.

It was strange.

We did get a lot of people.

What I think was a blessing for me was

we didn't have a lot of press.

You know, and those, there was only one, there wasn't any entertainment show at that point,

not even entertainment tonight.

And the media didn't really couldn't afford to send

people over.

So

I was kind of spared that end of it.

But the crowds,

we did about five or six shows and

we just, they said, we can't shoot in Waikiki anymore.

It's, it's crazy.

Yeah.

Especially at night.

Because tourists who had watched you in the States would all flock to come see you.

That's true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it was a good gig.

You got to stay at the Colony Surf Hotel.

I would not say I forgot.

I was searching my brain right now because it was an amazing hotel.

All the little shutters.

I mean, it was an amazing.

Yeah, and you were looked out over the water.

Yeah, and I was, it was a nice, you're right.

It was a nice gig.

And you overcame most of the cliches written for bad guys.

Here's my memory of this.

Not all of them.

Most of them, maybe.

Here's my memory of it.

And this sounds like I'm making this up.

I think I didn't get cast in this particular film I'm going to mention because I just wasn't good enough or whatever.

But Spielberg, Steven Spielberg, was casting poltergeist.

We had a meeting and he was very interested in me.

And this is what I was told.

Then he saw the episode that you and i shot

and he saw this weak kind of namby pamby husband getting the shit kicked out of him by you know rather tall handsome uh tom selleck and there was an overhead shot that i was not this was when i discovered oh I'm balding.

I have an actual full-on ball spot.

I don't tell that part of the story, but you told me that.

That's when I discovered discovered

I had a bald spot back in.

Yeah, big old, big old ball spot.

While you with no bald spot were kicking the shit out of me.

And I think Mr.

Spielberg went,

no.

And he told me this later, or somebody told me this, that I actually did kind of lose that part,

which, you know, we both kind of lost parts to him, didn't we?

We all lost a lot of parts.

When was the dance and DA in that corner?

Before.

It was before that.

Yeah, the first thing.

But I hadn't seen it yet.

I don't know.

No.

Or I would have been picking your brain because that was really good.

Nice work.

Larry Caston.

Yeah.

No, I'd done, I think, The Onion Field, and then I did a bunch of episodics, and that's how I met you.

Yes.

And then

eight years later.

Yeah.

We did it again.

But let me stay with Magnum for a second.

Because

you,

first off, I saw you and took note of you on Rockford.

I loved James Gardner and I loved Rockford.

Yeah.

And I thought, oh, I don't know if this is going to work.

And then you just stole the show.

That was a huge part for you.

Yeah.

It was a very big deal.

I had

Steve Cannell became a really good friend.

He cast me in two pilots, both with James Whitmore Jr., Jimmy Whitmore.

And

they were the first two pilots that Steve ever wrote that didn't sell

because he sold everything he wrote.

And he felt really bad.

And he called me up and he said, I wrote this thing on Rockford.

I think it's okay.

Let me send it to you.

And

it was a spoof on

the same kind of clichés that

the grappling hook was.

And

the perfect

specimen of a human being, perfect detective, the opposite of James Garner.

Lance White, white on white, nearly perfect.

And

to work with Garner, I mean,

it was really a,

I was to the point where I was getting bigger jobs and figured, well, maybe I'll get a shot.

And to work with him on his set,

I understood that doing a lead

involves leadership.

Right.

Because that's what he did.

I mean, he was always hurting from something.

His knees hurt.

His back's hurt, but

he'd put on a happy face.

And

I thought of it and thought of Jim many times when I started Magnum because, you know.

You are the host.

Yeah.

And I told a friend

whose husband was a really good actor, Danny Jansen, and David had died.

But I said, I got this pilot, and it's really neat.

I got this narration.

And Danny says,

well, you know what that means, don't you?

You're going to be in every shot.

And I said, oh, great.

That's fantastic.

And then you get to about episode five and you're dying.

Yeah.

You know, and

I realized what it was.

But,

you know, actually,

everybody's taken

their mood really off of you when you show up.

And if you put on a happy face, it not only helps them, it helps you.

And the crew is there 15 hours a day.

And you are.

the family.

You are a family together.

And if it's a bad place to come work,

that's horrible.

Well, I'm happy to say that, Magnum, and Blue Bloods.

I hope I had something to do with it.

Were good places to work.

There was no pot-stirring nonsense that I'm sure you came across and I came across

guesting on a lot of shows.

Yeah.

Yeah, I remember Benson.

I walked to do a guest spot on Benson,

which was a half hour sitcom and good, and everyone was great.

But on the mirror in my little, you know, cubby hole, guest star cubby hole, was someone had written with a magic marker, one day left of this place, and I'm out.

And it was like, oh,

it's absolutely miserable.

Yeah.

I did

the movie Myra Breckinridge.

I was in it for a cup of coffee, but I got to work with Mae West.

But

that picture was in horrible trouble.

And all we did was sit around.

Mae West is writing her own stuff.

And

Raquel Welsh is writing her own stuff.

And it was just the only good part of it was I was on a day player's salary.

And it was about two weeks before I ever worked.

So

had they known, they would have put me on a weekly and I would have made less money.

Now, one of the notes about that particular film was you got it because of May West's encouragement or something.

Is there a story there, Tom, you want to tell us?

Yeah.

Well, it was really funny.

I mean,

I'm under contract to Fox in the new talent program.

My friend Sam and I

were both under contract and

they disbanded the talent program.

And

After two years there, they just let it, when our options ran out, we had six-month options.

They just fired us.

So now I get fired

and I get two jobs right away at Fox.

I hadn't worked at Fox my whole time there.

One was a show called Lancer, which everybody remembers now because of DiCaprio and

Brad Pitt,

because that's a show, TV show he was doing.

And the other was to go see Mae West.

So

I knew my agent secretary very well.

Actually, she was more available than he was for me.

So

she says you have an appointment

for Myra Breckinridge with Mae West at 8 p.m.

in her dressing.

And you could see, you could kind of hear her eyebrows raise.

And she kidded me a lot.

And I didn't know what to expect.

It's May West, for God's sake.

Well, it just turned out she doesn't get up till about noon, and

she's up.

So I go in and

meet her.

And that was about it.

And then I got a, I thought I was done, you know, there was about 800 guys there,

all auditioning for one of seven parts, all titled Young Stud, Young Stud number one, Young Stud number two.

So I go,

then I get a call from my agent secretary.

She says, you have an appointment with May West

at her apartment

at 8 p.m.

So I don't know what to expect.

And it just turned out it was

above board.

Above board, yeah.

Everything in her apartment was white.

She was wearing white.

The piano was white.

There was a big piano in there.

Anyway, long story short,

she said, would you read with me?

And I said, yeah.

And so I read with her.

But

as soon as, you know,

May didn't talk like May West.

She was more Brooklyn.

Right.

And then I started to read and she became May West.

And it freaked me out and I started laughing and apologized.

And it turned out she wrote that scene and she thought I was laughing at the material.

Yeah, yeah.

And then she said,

and this is what got me the part: she's leaning on the piano.

She said, Come here.

I come over to her

and she says, Put your hands on my waist.

So I did that.

And she says, Now spread your legs.

So I did.

And then she looked over at my shoulder at her assistant on the couch and said, this is going to work.

She was concerned that I was too tall.

Yeah.

But she liked it.

We should say that Mae West in the what, 30s, 40s was one of the biggest kind of body

sex symbols, WC feels.

And she got away with murder.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, she could get away with stuff you always felt you were watching something you weren't allowed to see yeah the double entendre yeah everything yeah but she was at that time

i don't know 65

yeah but she wanted to appear bigger than she was she was a tiny woman yeah and uh

so once i spread my legs i got the part

I don't, I made that up just now.

The last thing, but not the spread.

She did make you stand that way, though.

Yeah, I was standing like this and made me shorter.

Yeah, I love that.

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So So let's stay in this moment, though.

When did you, you're doing Magnum again.

When did you know that you'd been shot out of a cannon?

When did you, because you weren't in the States, so you didn't get,

you know, the Hollywood, oh my God, Tom Selleck.

You got it to some degree, but when did you know your life was forever different?

I really think there was a period, there was a big actor strike that lasted

for four or five months.

So we were already supposed to start.

So I had this

kind of melancholy period in Hawaii, knowing I knew enough about work and stuff to know that if the show was a failure, you know, millions of people were going to see it.

My life was going to be different.

So it wasn't from interviews or anything else.

It was really knowing that.

And then,

like I say, by the time we were

third show into Waikiki, where we liked to shoot and all,

you got mobbed.

But I did, and then I didn't realize till I went back.

And

somebody said,

you are huge.

Yeah, I forget what.

Oh, I went back

to an awards show, maybe?

Yeah, it was, I think the first People's Choice Awards, where I was the newcomer.

Right.

And I think that I went, oh, holy shit.

Because you were arguably one of the biggest stars in the world.

No, it was huge.

That was absolutely huge.

Yeah.

But it

sat on you well?

Or was it hard to walk around being you can't duck and hide at 6'4?

I didn't like it.

Yeah.

Why?

Mainly because of family and a sense of privacy.

And

I started getting asking questions and interviews that I didn't want to say,

give an answer to.

And I was trying to, I said, you better find a way and find a line about what you're going to talk about.

I didn't always succeed, but

it just grew.

And

I still can't quite describe it, but I wasn't going through it every day.

I had a lovely house in Hawaii.

It was a tiny little house.

It was a one-bedroom house.

I rented it.

I later bought it.

It's the first house I could ever afford.

And

I belonged to a place called the Outrigger Canoe Club.

And that was local people.

And

yeah, they kind of knew I was an actor, but that time

while the actors were on strike and we couldn't start the show, start shooting was great.

I actually was living magnum's life

yeah yeah um

my beach

and stuff and um

so it was really uh

i don't know a lot to adjust to i think

i don't know how people say if say the same show was in land got the same kind of heat yeah i don't know how people do that but i had this huge buffer and it was a blessing but you would go home did you work the first hiatus the first summer?

You made a film.

What?

Do you remember?

I made a film High Road to China.

Right.

This is where Mary Steenbergen comes in, my wife.

Really?

Because she sat down with.

Well, first off, here, you know, everyone claims a little story, I'm sure, but this being Mary, I'm sure.

Oh, I'm a huge fan.

I know.

As you know.

But you said in some

interview article or something,

somebody asked a silly question like, if you were stranded on a desert island, who would you want it to be with?

And you said, Mary Steenbergen, which got her attention.

It did get her attention.

So then when she sat down with you, this was her interpretation at some

lunch or something.

She said, it felt like you looked at her and she's a very nervous, very shy person that sometimes gets interpreted as,

I don't don't know,

cold, judgmental.

So these are her words, not mine.

And so she thought, oh, I blew it.

That's her story, Tom Selick's story.

I don't think she blew it.

I can't remember the movie that she had done.

I think it was The High Road to China.

No, no, her movie.

Oh, oh, oh, her movie.

She had just kind of burst on the scene.

I think she got nominated.

She got an Oscar for,

sorry, somebody in Howard.

Go ahead, help me.

Oh, my God.

This is horrible.

You should keep this.

You're like me with names.

No, you should keep this in so she can rag, you know, tell me what an idiot I am.

Well, I had seen that and I was a big fan.

I did High Road with Bess Armstrong,

who I saw

in four seasons before that.

Yeah.

With my friend Carol Burnett and

Jack Weston, who was in High Road, was in four seasons also.

So

anyway, that's kind of inside baseball.

Let me back up.

Yeah.

Let me back up.

So

this is my impression of you, which no, I'm not going to do an impression, but my impression of you has always been that you are a, in the best old-fashioned sense of the word, a gentleman.

Thank you.

Yeah, you are.

You're an old-fashioned gentleman.

And

where did that come from is my question.

What was your mom and dad?

I met your dad once,

I think.

But where did that come from?

Where did your moral center come from?

I think it came from my family.

I was lucky.

I could go into analysis for 20 years and not blame my parents for anything.

And they were great.

I've been working on a book, so I've been thinking about a lot of that stuff.

And I remember early on, my dad,

it was just important to be accountable for your acts.

He held us accountable.

I wouldn't say he was strict, but he was

whatever they did, I felt when I screwed up, which I did

lots.

I didn't,

I'd probably get punished, but I didn't care about that.

I cared about letting them down.

I remember I was like seven or something, and I was playing baseball on the street.

We lived on a little residential block, and we weren't supposed to, but we did anyway.

And I got a hold of one, and I um

I broke a window down the street,

and everybody scattered, and we all ran into our house and everything.

And

I told my mom

and she said,

well,

thank you for telling me, but

we'll see what happens when your dad gets home.

And she says, I said, are you going to tell him?

She said, no, you are.

Oh, good one.

Good one, mom.

So my dad,

I told him.

And he said, thanks for telling me.

I'll see you in the morning.

It was a Saturday.

and we got up, and he took me down to the house

and said,

tell them.

Knocked on their door.

And they opened the door.

I said, I'm the guy who broke your window.

I don't want to cry.

But

after we did that,

he said,

no, come on.

And he...

put me in the car and we went to the hardware store.

First, he showed me how to measure the window and we bought some glass

and

glazer points and window putty and he went down and fixed the window with me because he was very handy.

He worked as a carpenter before he got into real estate.

So that, you know.

That to me feels like the most perfect parenting example you could come up with.

The other one I remember.

was my brother Bob, who was 19 months older than me.

And we were, we were very young.

We were like eight or something, but getting full of ourselves, you know.

And

my dad said, I want you to come down to City Hall with me.

I got a tour.

So we go down to City Hall in Van Huys, little City Hall, and

gives me the tour, gives me the

tour of the police department.

He says, yes, sir, no, sir.

So we did that.

And he says,

can I take him downstairs?

And

the cop said, sure.

So the guy goes down with my dad to the jail cells.

And

he says, Can they go in and just see what it's like being in a cell?

And the cop says, sure.

And he had a little smile on his face, the cop.

So

we go in the cell, and my dad says, Okay, lock them up.

And they shut that door and

left

for a while.

I mean, for five minutes, you go, okay, he's coming back now.

So you get to be about 20 minutes.

And it was

finally we heard footsteps coming down.

And

I think my dad said,

I don't think I have to say anything.

Wow.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

What a great story.

It is.

I put it in the book, so I hope it is.

Yeah.

It's called You Never Know.

You never know.

Why that?

An accidental career.

I was studying business at SC and

ended up through

just pure serendipity.

signing a contract with a studio.

I'd never thought about acting or wanted to or anything else.

Someone spotted you doing

I did the dating game.

Oh, that's right.

That's a famous place.

Yeah, but

they,

you know how, you know what they do with all this stuff?

You get it.

It suddenly I was an all-American basketball player at

SC and was discovered on the dating game and then got magnum.

And that's not

the story.

But they inflate all this stuff.

Number one, I rode the pine at SC

and only had a scholarship for one semester.

So it just gets crazy.

So I'm trying to straighten all that out.

But what are we talking about?

Stick with sports for a second back then.

Volleyball, were you a big-time volleyball player then?

Because I know you were.

I played volleyball

on the beach at Will Rogers State Park in LA

before

Magnum Days.

After USC?

After college, you did this?

Well,

I played basketball at SC.

I also played volleyball.

We had to raise money because it wasn't an NC2A sport and borrow old uniforms from the basketball team.

I played for SC for two years and we started the sport there.

So that was indoor, though.

Indoor six-man.

And then I played two-man at the beach, but I wasn't really that good.

I was very good indoors because I could

I could jump.

You could spike.

Tell Woody I could jump.

I saw his movie.

So basically I started playing at Outrigger.

in the sand.

They have two sand courts above their parking garage.

And

that was one of my saviors just playing.

So we got pretty good and at Outrigger and the men's seniors.

So

we won two national championships.

That's good.

That's good.

Wow.

Well, I've never played for all the Marbles till then.

It was the men's seniors.

It was 35 and over, but I was playing with

ex-Olympians and

all-American players and stuff.

So it was really fun.

Yeah,

I was, basketball was going to be my life, which was very silly because I fell in love with basketball in high school.

It was a prep school.

There were 300 boys.

So any run-of-the-mill high school could have just kicked our ass.

Yeah.

You know, and, but it was my life.

I loved it.

I just dreamt that.

And I had no other sport.

Went to Stanford.

My friend and I, who was a good athlete, went, all right, let's go try out for freshman ball.

Yeah.

This was the same year that Lou Elsender was a freshman at UCLA.

So I stepped to the court and I looked around and I just went, oh, shoot, turned around, walked out, and that was the end of my dream.

Well, basketball was my, I mean, I had played baseball forever, little league and everything else, and burned out a little bit on it.

And

started doing really well in high school in basketball.

So that was my sport.

But

I was a six foot, four inch forward

at that time in the pack eight.

Ooh, that's a big deal, by the way.

Pack eight.

It is a big deal,

but I just realized, you know,

now the guys I'm playing against are six, seven, six, eight, six, nine.

Yeah.

That's my brush with greatness, though.

Tell me.

Well, Alcinder,

Kareem,

was at UCLA.

And when we were preparing

for the team we were going to play the next week, the guys who weren't going to play a lot,

you, me, and a bunch of other guys,

would learn

basically the UCLA offense as much as we could.

And we'd run it against our first team.

Right.

And

none of them were very big.

So when we prepared for UCLA, I was

Cinder.

I've told him I got to know Kareem.

He laughs.

But yeah, that was my job.

Did you develop a sky hook or not?

Well, it was a tough job because we had a seven-footer.

He wasn't quite as agile as Lou Al Cinder, but his elbows were right about head height for me.

Yeah, boom.

Yeah.

So, yeah, a lot of booms.

Yeah.

Well, okay.

Let's skip ahead a little bit um three men and a baby yeah

that was a big deal i i you were i don't know if it was a big deal for you it was a big deal it was a huge deal for me yeah i mean it was a hundred and sixty plus million dollar kind of back then two 210 worldwide oh wow so that the number one movie in the world yes so that that was that's a big deal for you too uh

how did that come about for you Because I know there was a mishmash of directors and it all kind of fell apart and came together.

I got a call from my dear friend and agent, Betty McCart, and she said, Jeffrey Katzenberg wants to come to Hawaii.

And

I said, Jeffrey Katzenberg

wants to come to Hawaii.

She says, yeah,

he wants to talk to you about a project.

I thought it was about development and stuff, but I was impressed.

I said, sure.

So after work, I went to a meeting.

They had just gotten off a plane, and it was him and Colleen Sorreau, who directed the original Three Men in a Cradle.

And we just sat down.

And Jeffrey's,

I wish I could do every movie for Jeffrey because he kind of executive produces every movie.

And

work was very good for me when I was working for Jeffrey, and I appreciate that.

So he's talking, he's very convincing, and

I thought, well,

I said, so I know you want to think about this, but I'm interested.

Colleen Sorreau is very quiet, very serious, very French.

And

he says, no, I want you to do it.

I said, okay,

well.

Who are you going to get for the other two bachelors?

And you may not know this.

I don't know this.

You said Ted Danson is Steve Gutenberg.

And there's something about Jeffrey

where I knew that's who he'd get.

Yeah, because he hadn't.

You didn't even know.

No, you were, you were the, they had to get you.

I guess.

I don't know.

But that was his dream team.

Right.

It's nice you were on it.

Really nice.

Yeah.

So

I said, it's okay with me.

Yeah.

And they left and they got on a plane.

Wow.

Colleen Sorrell was very serious.

And there is a danger in somebody making the same movie twice.

Eventually,

I wasn't in on any of this.

I'm doing Magnum.

But

from what I heard, it was getting a little,

it wasn't going to be a Jeffrey-like movie.

And

as he explained to me later, she had this concept that she wanted to turn their apartment, it should represent a female womb.

She was getting really serious about it.

Sure wasn't how it ended up.

No.

So anyway,

and I said, who are you?

So what are you going to do?

I think he called me.

And he said, well, I got a new director very excited about, Leonard Nimoy.

And I didn't know Leonard.

I just knew he was Spock.

But

I think

he didn't have a lot of prep.

And I think he's just, Leonard saved that movie.

He really knew

his chops.

He knew his stuff.

And

his concept of how to use the babies.

I've worked with babies in a few scenes and everything else before that and much since.

But you usually rehearse

with a doll and pretend the baby's there when they're shooting your coverage.

But our babies were there.

And it created,

they were there all the time.

And I don't ever, I remember rehearsing, blocking a scene with a doll,

but from then on, they were in the scene.

And I think that was the key to.

No matter what the business was, whether you were holding up your hand to catch a bottle that was being thrown to you while you're holding the baby or making phone calls.

Yeah.

You must get this a lot.

I get it a little, but what the ghost thing just

crazy.

Have you been asked that everywhere you go?

It used to be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I'll have to admit, when you go back and you look at it, it gets spooky.

It's a little spooky.

Well, you were playing, as I recall, a vain actor.

I don't know where they got that concept.

I think it was

posters of yourself all over.

Cutouts.

Also, life-size cutouts or short cutouts of me and my commercials.

And there was one that was about, you know, six, seven-year-old boy size.

And it was very scary.

Yeah.

I guess it was great for maybe Jeffrey thought of that.

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I also remember going out with

you and Steve.

I think it was before we went out with Leonard and out to dinner in Toronto.

We shot in Toronto.

Yeah.

Which is another reason why some kid didn't die in this building in New York because we shot

on a soundstage.

Yeah.

But we, you know, you were, you know, I think this was,

this was right when you shot your final, you shot your final episode of Magnum and then came.

First year and came right there.

Came right there.

So you were huge and we'd go out and we'd, Steve and I would giggle over how invisible we became around you.

Then we went out to dinner with Leonard, the three of us.

Yeah.

And all three of us disappeared into the backdrop.

He was so popular.

Leonard is such a good guy.

People got this spock impression.

And

he's a fine actor and a fine director.

And an amazing photographer.

Yeah.

Was it your suite

where we had the parties?

Yeah.

Because,

and I don't know why everybody was up in Toronto.

Was there a strike?

22 production.

Yeah, maybe there was.

It was either a strike or it had gotten so cheap

they wouldn't go anywhere else, but it was wonderful.

We'd have every actor in town come to these parties.

Yeah.

Yeah, every Saturday because I had this huge, massive living room.

Yes, you did.

And the Sutton, I think it was a Sutton place.

Yeah.

Back then in the glory days, had a butler.

Yes.

Werner.

Our floors, Werner.

Werner, yes.

Werner.

Yeah.

Spelled with a W.

And

the top floors had the butler.

Yeah.

It was very rock and roll.

It really was.

It was.

And I think that's where I really met Woody.

Yeah, he came to visit.

Because he came up a couple times.

Yeah.

Jeffrey Katzenberg's story.

I remember he was famous for his, or still is, his 60-second phone calls.

Yeah.

He would check in with everybody, check in with me.

But it was a 60-second phone call.

Yes.

Packed, very sweet, and he was gone.

But

when we did

Three Men and a Lady two or three years later,

we were sitting in it, we'd shot it, and it felt really good.

Felt like a really, and it was.

It was a good movie.

And we were sitting in a commissary and it was about to come out.

And I was saying, so how's it looking?

He said, oh, we're the 100-pound gorilla in the room.

We are, it's looking really good.

There's something,

Home Home Alone, I think, is the name of this movie coming, but I don't, we're not, we're not worried about it.

Robert Court, who produced both movies, was a worrier.

And he was just going,

Home Alone.

That's all I'm going to say.

I mean, this is before it ever came out.

Yeah.

Cleaned our clocks.

Yeah.

No, Jeffrey.

Jeffrey called me a bunch of times.

He'd call me with grosses every week.

But quickly.

Yes.

uh yeah that didn't he didn't he did that for me too but not on the second movie because well they didn't want to talk about the grosses

the second movie did okay but he thought yeah they had another uh blockbuster i think they took it for granted too yeah okay i'm gonna jump now i want to jump um

i mean you were

born to be in a saddle Yes.

You were born to be a Western hero.

You weren't.

Really?

Was that

riding horseback?

Was that an acquired skill for you?

Well, other than going to the ponies at Griffith Park where they strap you into a pony and door hunt.

Yeah.

I mean, I think I did a couple commercials, but

in a commercial, if you sit on a horse, they only need like two, three seconds.

So

that isn't a big deal.

But

then I got cast in the sockets with Sam, my pal.

And

I was going to be working with Ben Johnson, Academy Award winner, and Glenn Ford.

And

it was a big deal, but I learned from the ground up.

I had

some days before we started, and a woman named Donna Hall, a wrangler.

Her husband was the chief wrangler on the show.

She just started me out and

said, first of all,

she taught me how to get on and get off.

And then for a couple of days, it was all about sitting a horse and

how to do it.

And I said, when do I get to gallop?

She said,

95% of what you do in a movie is riding to a mark, stopping,

controlling your horse and doing dialogue and getting on and getting off.

When you can do that right, maybe I'll let you do that.

That was smart.

Well, Bob Totten, our director, he had done like 19 gun smokes.

And I mean, he was going to ask us to do the real stuff.

He didn't like stunt doubles.

So

it was really, and I was hooked forever.

Yeah.

I grew up

on horseback because we lived in Arizona.

My friends were Hopinabeho

kids who lived in the museum property that I was

growing up in because of my father.

But my friends were also ranchers, sons and daughters.

So

we had horses, and my father wouldn't let me ride by myself with

a saddle.

If I was going to ride by myself, I had to ride bareback.

That way, if I got thrown, I'd, you know, break a bone maybe, but not get dragged.

You wouldn't get caught in the street.

Yeah, yeah, and get dragged.

So I grew up with that.

And I had one, one little movie for television called Cowboy, where I got to

ride like the wind, and it just made me so happy.

So happy.

But you,

Quiggly Down Under, is truly one of those movies that I've watched, and not just because I know you and love you.

It's a brilliant movie, and you are just astounding.

Really good Western.

Thank you.

I'm very, very proud of that movie.

You know, it's funny.

I think it had

been across a few desks.

It had.

Sean Connery, maybe Steve McQueen, I don't know.

And many directors.

Yes.

And

I was proud that

they sent it to me and I said, I got to do this.

It was like fifth year of Magnum

when I first saw the script by John Hill.

And,

but it's interesting, you know, I said, boy.

you know,

almost every part I've had like that when they're like iconic characters.

He go, well, Jimmy Stewart could have done this way better than I could.

Or in this case, it was John Wayne.

And I said,

can I

find

my own way to do this?

playing an admittedly iconic character.

And,

well, then you just do it and see what happens.

But it

was intimidating.

A lot of parts have been that when I've got some of those bigger iconic guys.

I didn't think of Magnum as iconic.

I guess he ended up that way.

But that was a brilliant.

How long you were, where'd you shoot that?

In Australia?

Where?

About four months in.

in the outback of Australia.

Right.

With Alan Rickman, who's one of the best bad guys ever.

And a prince of a guy.

Yeah.

So I'm so sad.

He's gone.

And he told me that movie changed his life.

He just loved it out there.

Loved horses.

The Outback, there's nothing going on.

It's 17,000 people, I think, in Alice Springs in the dead center of the country.

And then just miles and miles of desert.

The rest of the,

I don't know, 20 million people in Australia all live on the coast.

Where did you stay?

Where did they put you?

Is there a day?

Sheraton there, but there was an airline strike.

So we didn't even have groups of tourists coming in and out.

But it was great.

Really hard work.

They called it bulldust.

The soil in Australia is very old.

It's some of the oldest land on earth.

And

this powdery red dust that would just get all over you.

So

you'd come in at night after long rides.

We'd ride for two hours to get to these unbelievable locations.

Right.

And then two hours home.

So

a cold beer was really

cold beers in the bar were just a treat.

And And guess who you're in the bar with?

Your crew.

Yeah.

But they're a great group of guys.

What was the rifle?

I remember being like that.

The Sharp's rifle.

I had

done a lot of research, and I'd seen a lot of Westerns where they were using the wrong.

stuff.

Right.

There's a movie I love called Vera Cruz with Carrie Cooper and Burt Lancaster.

Well, that's the, I think, 1860s.

And they're using

1892 Winchesters and 1873 Colts.

And it just ain't right.

And the Sharps was the right gun.

And it was

legendary,

the Sharps in those days.

Because of the distance.

Because of the distance.

It was famous.

It's one of the reasons we almost lost all our Buffalo.

I just started watching

documentary on that

because it was so accurate.

But they'd never seen anything like it over there.

And I talked to Simon Windsor, our director, who did a great job.

Great guy and did a great job.

And we decided to make it

to not unveil it.

It was in the sheath when he gets off the boat for quite a while.

And

Simon really got it.

We got nominated for an Academy Award for Sound, actually,

because he was shooting at such long distances.

Yes.

Simon realized that the person who gets hit with a bullet hasn't heard the rifle yet.

God, that's amazing.

So you got the rifle impact.

You got the bullet impact on the guy, and then you hear the...

the gun go off.

Right.

And he just did great stuff.

But Laura was great.

Laura Sanchikona.

And Alan.

And Alan kind of, you know, he'd done Die Hard.

That's where I said, you got to get that guy.

Because he made a heavy, intelligent.

And highly entertaining.

Yeah, always entertaining because

he was

really asking quigly.

I mean, it's really a good film, and he's brilliant in it.

He was doing the same scene over and over and over again, kind of to prove he's bad, but he did it with such relish.

Yeah.

Did you work with Alan?

For a day on something I can't even remember, but he was so open and

available to tell stories and just a sweet, sweet man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it was, it was,

it was a wonderful experience.

And

my daughter got two first birthdays.

Hannah.

Well, because when we left to go home, it was her first birthday.

But by the time we got to LA, you save a day.

All right.

So she had two first birthdays.

Was that first?

She was one when you were down there?

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

So that

it was a big deal, and it was a big Western.

And

there's a guy.

There's a reviewer, Gary Franklin.

Yeah.

Where he said

on my scale,

10 being best.

Well, he had beat me up all my life.

And he gave it a 10.

That's good.

Yeah.

So,

yeah.

Yeah.

It's funny how that happens.

It didn't get

a very good release.

It competed with us

and really Tremen and the Little Lady.

And it competed with Dances with Wolves.

Oh, wow.

And,

you know, they should have realized

they didn't expect it to be as good as it was.

But it's become

when video rentals were the deal,

you could never get it in the store.

It just was always out.

Yeah.

No, it's, I mean, it.

I've watched it.

Thank you.

Maybe a dozen times.

So have I.

Yeah.

That's funny.

Okay.

So Blue Bloods, who knew?

Did you know this was going to?

Are you about to do a 14th season?

I didn't know much of anything

when Leonard,

not Leonard Nimoy,

Leonard Goldberg.

I get called in and they want me to do this

part.

And

he's

there were two two issues one i said where are you going to shoot this because i like the script it was it had a procedural element but it was really about character yeah yeah and because i'm i don't want to do procedural

and uh

i said where are you going to shoot this it it should be shot in new york because the city has got to be yeah it's like a western the land is a central character in the show, and so it's New York.

He said, New York, but I think I have a way to make that work.

Um, because I, I said, I don't want to do that to my family, you know.

So I've done it to my family for 13 years, but they worked it out.

I do, we do eight-day shows.

I do, say, the last four of one and the first four of the next, and then I commute, which I've done for but you'll have 10 days or so at home.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But yeah, I thought it had potential.

And,

you know, there was always a push at the network to keep turning it more like the rest of their shows.

There was

some

pretty good fights on that.

When I say fights, I mean ethical fights

where you go back and forth and you say no and

politely.

And we ended up winning out

and doing the show we thought.

I always kidded Leonard because I was

when I did I did a Charlie's Angels

where I was going to be Jackie Smith's boyfriend.

And

I was very enthused because besides working with Jackie Smith,

it was going to recur because they were going to get them involved with personal lives.

And

after the first one, they said,

they're not going to use you again.

Leonard Goldberg.

Not crazy about you.

No.

So Leonard fired me from that one.

So

now I'm, now he's, my boss, Leonard, is gone now, but

he was really on top of it.

He was one of the gentlemen in our business.

He cast me in something about Amelia, which was the inside.

I know the movie well.

Congratulations.

I think there was an Emmy there.

Yeah, no, something, a golden globe.

It was a golden globe.

But who remembers that?

Other than the fact that it's right in front of our TV.

We put our awards in our little TV, our private TV room kind of thing, right?

To the point where we can't quite, because Mary, and I have my Emmys and Golden Globes over here surrounding her Oscar

that she won.

And it just doesn't work.

There's something about an Oscar, man, just cuts through all the other.

That's the real deal.

Yeah.

But

I had so much respect for Leonard, and I do miss him.

Yeah.

I was hosting the Emmys

when

you at least came up on stage for something about Amelia.

The same year, I think.

Yeah.

Carol Burnett called me, and she was sick.

She had some kind of virus.

And she said, They're starting rumors that I'm dying.

I'm not dying, but

it was kind of like

I can't remember some of the viruses that were going around those that lasted a while.

Yeah.

And she said, So

you got to host the show for me.

Oh, wow.

At last minute.

Yes.

Well, it wouldn't have mattered if I had a year to prepare.

It's not my bag.

I was scared to death.

And

I just talked as fast as I could.

But that was the year I won Miami.

Oh, really?

Nice.

And maybe I should have been.

I was backstage

waiting to come out again.

The nice thing is, John and Larry and Roger were backstage with me because they were going to come out and present.

Your co-stars.

You know, I had told, they said, this is,

if, if, if you win, I said, oh, come on.

I've done this three or four times.

I'm not going to win.

So don't worry about it.

They said, well, just know you get your Emmy on one side of the stage.

You have to run to the other side.

I said, okay.

And I won.

And I did.

I've never got to do the walk.

You know, where you're in your chair yeah and you got that awful camera right in your face pretending they aren't there and then you're so happy somebody else won and and people grab your hand as you walk by

well so I never got to do the walk yeah

because I was backstage right and I don't

I I don't remember a lot of it I didn't really have any speech whatsoever.

And

I didn't really get to take in

the audience.

But maybe you never do.

I got nominated

a bunch of times.

A bunch of times, like 14 times, I think, altogether, but nine in a row for cheers and didn't win.

And

then when I won, people kept saying, oh, but you must, you have eight of these, right?

People don't.

Everybody in an award show is so into their own head and nervousness and fear that they don't really take in anything.

People thought I won all the time.

Yeah, I just thought, well, why couldn't you just sit there and relax for a minute and just look at the people applauding?

You know,

all I could think of, you're hosting.

And they said, you got to run to the other side of the stage

to introduce the next award.

Yeah.

Tommy Lee Jones had the best.

It was just, thank you for the work and turned around.

I heard William Holden said, Thank you.

And left.

Yeah, that's very cool.

Instead of thanking your agent and everybody who could give you a job.

Looking back at old-time 40s, 50s movie stars, who are Jimmy Stewart?

You mentioned Jimmy.

He was one of my

John Wayne.

Bogart.

Oh, yeah.

And then

I always felt,

if you get asked what actress, what

actress is your favorite actress, who would you like to work with most?

I said, you can't answer that question.

But

Lillian Gish.

I can't count.

Mary got to work with Lillian.

I would have killed to work with Lillian Gish.

Barbara

Tierney.

Barbara Stanwick.

Judy Gene Arthur, Gene Arthur.

Oh, my gosh.

I mean, they were amazing.

And Irene Dunn.

Unbelievable.

I love

Mary will leave the room and the news is on, and I click immediately to, you know, TCM or, you know, and I see, and she comes back in and goes, oh, I see you're watching some black and white films again.

And they're so comforting to me.

They are.

And

I'm just old now,

or older, or whatever you want to say.

But

I look at previews of the movies coming on, and

it's just a bunch of gimmicks and effects.

And oh my God, that person can fly.

And

the wings come out of nowhere.

And

I'm just kind of sick of that.

And

they really were good stories.

Yeah.

Be they funny.

Most of the really good comedies can do both.

Even today, make you laugh or cry at the same time.

You guys could do that.

And cheers.

Yeah.

And friends could do that.

Friends.

Well, that was a hoot for you.

How many shows did you do of Friends?

Nine.

And was that your first stepping out in front of a live audience?

I had done taxi.

Would you play in taxi?

I played, uh it was cut memories of a of cabs such and such whatever the number was because the cab just got total and everybody told stories i was with mary lou henner driving and i was in the back seat and it freaked me out because the audience was right there yeah because the way it was set up and i i got flop sweat and i mean really bad yeah yeah and when you say

don't sweat don't sweat it gets worse Yeah.

So that was my last experience.

And I, I, Jimmy Burroughs.

Did Jimmy Burroughs direct that one?

Do you remember?

No, Jimmy didn't direct it.

I wish he did.

Good guy.

Michael Lembeck directed the first one.

And he said, now,

when you come into the set, we're not going to introduce you.

Right.

When you come into the set, everybody's going to go nuts.

I said, oh, come on.

He said, just be prepared.

Don't let it throw you.

And the audience went nuts at all.

The hardest thing I had to deal with was

the waiting.

Well, you say something and it's funny.

Oh, the waiting.

Yes.

Gotcha.

It isn't real.

Yeah.

And I've got to find the comedy and tragedy and the tragedy and comedy.

That's the only

shtick.

Your show, The Good Place?

Yeah, yeah.

I got the title right, which wasn't such a good place.

No, it turned out not to be.

I love that show.

Yeah, it's good.

Thanks.

Thanks.

I used to, on cheers,

make sure that I had a piece of business, you know, whatever it was that I could, because if the joke was really good and people laughed, you still, like you said, didn't want to sit there waiting.

You wanted to have something more important to do.

And if the joke sucked, you wanted to really have something more important to go back to.

I remember on cheers, if you, because it was the bar and all of that.

So it was like

theater.

It was, you had to be a lot, everybody on the set, which was large, had to be active.

You know, they had to be acting at all times.

So if you had a...

If you had a good joke, you would all of a sudden notice that, you know, Woody or Rhea or somebody would be, all of a sudden there'd be people crossing right behind you, right at the good joke.

And if you had a sucko joke, you'd turn around and

they were ducking down,

disappearing.

I used

chairs a lot as an example.

We'd get these

guest directors, or

and they would

a lot of my scenes are in my office as the police commissioner and right blue blood.

So

they would constantly

have somebody come in in the office,

walk and sit down, and they wouldn't cover the entrance with all the subtexts at all.

And I said, the scene doesn't start when they sit at my desk.

The scene started at the door.

And I just hammered them with that.

And I said, in cheers,

the scene starts when they come in the room, not when they sit down at the bar.

And I used that over and over again.

And I think I've got him trained now.

He loves cheers.

Just do what he says.

All right.

What's what are you,

you're writing a book?

I've written a book.

Oh, it's, I actually finished.

Now, you, you wrote it.

I wrote it.

I have a collaborator, but I realized very early on.

Basically, I've, the way we work, and I couldn't do it without him, is I write write something.

Right.

I go to him, we go over it, and I bounce it off of him, and

that's it.

So, yes, I wrote it.

And because I didn't want to,

the audience is on, the reader is on to readers' audiences, they're on to all this

stuff where, oh, I wrote a book.

Actually, it's a series of books.

Yes, some other guy helped me write it, but and a ghostwriter wrote the whole thing, and I just didn't want to do that.

I got to give him credit, Ellis Hennikin, real good writer anyway.

I don't think I could have done it without bouncing off of him.

I never really

considered writing a book.

I mean, I didn't become a heroin addict and

lose my career for 10 years and have a great story.

I just worked.

There is time, you know.

There is time.

Tom in his 80s turned to heroin.

Yeah.

And

how long did that take, that book?

Well, because of COVID,

you know, I envisioned sitting down with the collaborator in my dressing room.

Sometimes if I finish early, he's in New York.

I'm in New York.

We had protocols.

You couldn't get near our set or anything.

It was COVID and

a bunch of stuff.

And the last year was very difficult because there were some pretty serious negotiations,

which are still going on in some ways.

So it took me

about four years.

Did you enjoy it?

No.

I'm proud of it.

Yes.

Somebody told me who knows something about writing, they said autobiographies are hard.

Yeah.

Because you,

at least for me it was because you have to kind of relive a lot of stuff

all those things to make them come alive especially like i say i

i wasn't shooting up heroin or something i i just had a drama at work

right you know so if they don't get inside your head you don't really have a a book that's worth reading

so

it it involved a lot of emotional investment.

I'd write for a couple hours a day when I was behaving myself.

And

I'd be exhausted.

Real brain-dead exhaustion.

And it was very,

you know, a lot of tears sometimes.

I'd read everything to Jilly.

I'd come back.

It was about dinner time.

And I'd read the pages that I did.

And I just couldn't get through some of them.

A lot of them, actually.

And just that, or that story I told you about my dad, you know, I couldn't read it to Jilly.

I never

couldn't finish the sentence.

She just choke up.

So, yeah, I'm very proud of it.

But

I don't know whether I liked it or not.

I didn't like the

deadlines

and stuff.

Let's jump back for a second with Jilly.

You met how and when?

Well, I met Jilly.

Was it before?

I saw Jilly.

I didn't meet her.

I went to

John Hilleman told me

on Magnum, he said, when you go to London, because I was going to do a picture over there called Lasseter.

Right.

And

he said, when you go to London, you must see cats.

It's unique.

So I put it on my list.

And one night I had some time.

And

one of my really good friends,

my makeup man, Lon Bentley, who lived down the street from me.

Please say hi to Lon for me.

I will say hi to Lon.

Great guy, as you know.

Yes, yes.

And he lived down the street from me in Hawaii.

So I said, come on with me.

And I'll buy dinner afterwards.

So we went.

And

I noticed,

how big do you want to make this story?

Because it's complicated.

You've married her instead.

I noticed

it's a big story.

I love the show.

But I found

that one particular cat on stage I would notice.

She looked really good in a leotard, but they all did.

And a guy named Brian Blessed,

good actor, was in a movie, the first movie I did, High Road to China, and he was old Deuteronomy and cats.

So

I went backstage to talk to Brian.

And I was single and

High Road was very difficult.

So I didn't have any free time.

So it wouldn't hurt to meet somebody.

So I go back and Brian in he loved mountain climbing passionate about it yeah and he gets into mountain climbing and everest and all so he says um

look um

when you get to the carabiners and the things and and and it's now like a half an hour

and uh

I finally just said to him in the program, I said, who is that?

Because I noticed this cat, a real personality.

You could see it through all the whiskers and stuff.

And he says, Oh, that's Jilly Mac.

She's probably crazy about you.

As a matter of fact, all the girls are, but I know you get a lot of that.

So I told them all to go away.

So it was deserted.

Anyway, long story short, I went back

a couple times.

Wow.

Without seeing her, without

the show.

Yeah.

I think it got a bad rap when they made it bigger and bigger.

It was very intimate in London.

So I did, I really enjoyed the show.

So Lon and I go back and

Jilly was always highly professional, but she's on stage, and at the very end, they're singing out to the audience.

And

I'd been watching her.

In fact, somebody had said to her, one of the other dancers, one of the guys that she danced with, Do you know who's staring at you?

And she told me this story later.

And

she said, Who?

And he said, Tom Selleck.

She said, Who the fuck's that?

She didn't know, which was a big plus

at that point.

You know.

So, anyway, at the very end,

this goes on because I went to eight shows, but

at the very end of the show, at a certain point, she's singing and she just goes like this.

Right into your eyes.

Yeah.

Nailed it.

But no, not a long look, just a checkout.

And I said, Lon.

Did she just look at me?

And he said, she sure did.

Anyway.

you dragged poor lawn to all eight of them no i've dragged lawn to probably four of them

uh but i i actually only saw seven and a half because i was yeah i had to work late wait no so give me the actual meet

the meet was after i i i

I knew the theater manager by then because he'd get me in the back way.

I said, is it okay to call someone?

And he said, yeah, I'll give you the backstage number.

So I called her up from Wales.

I was my best friend from high school now had a farm in Wales.

And

I called from there

and was very nervous.

And

she finally said, I'm about to go on.

Would you like to take me out for a cocktail?

Because I was hemming and hawing.

And I'm not good at that.

I don't know whether you are,

but I'm not very smooth and I'm pretty shy.

So anyway, we went out and

Lon came along.

I said, come on, Lon, you got to go with me.

I don't know who this person is.

And she showed up and she had purple hair.

She called it black tulip

and ate like a horse.

She was hungry.

And boy, they really,

that show was wonderful.

And

we've been together how long now?

38?

38 years.

No, maybe a little longer.

Jillie can count.

I can't.

Yeah.

Please say hi to her.

I will.

I will.

I'll see her whenever we're done.

Yeah.

Hey.

Cannot thank you enough

for doing this.

Seriously, we have never, ever, I mean, this is the one thing I know that I like about podcasts because I'm finding my way and I'll keep going, is this a podcast?

I'm not sure.

It's a privilege to sit down with people uninterrupted and talk to them for an hour and a half or so.

It really is.

And this was a privilege.

I've always admired you.

We both share the same

Annette Wolf, who is our publicist,

is one of the most gracious, wonderful people in our business.

But

she keeps me posted on what you're doing and how you are.

But it's

likewise, she does.

Yeah.

So it's really nice to sit down with you.

It's great to sit down with you.

And it's not,

I've never got to do

it really.

And usually you're on a talk show and

most of the hosts are looking over the shoulder for the next question or the next joke.

Yeah.

You can't, no, you can't finish a story.

No, you're performing.

You're not chatting.

Yeah.

Anyway, I adore you, my friend.

Great to see you.

You as well.

Let's stay upright for

another 15, 20 years.

Got to keep moving.

Yeah.

Keep moving forward.

Yeah.

That's Tom Selleck, ladies and gentlemen.

Thank you so much, Tom, for making us your first ever podcast stop.

I was honored, truly honored to spend this time with you.

I loved you for many years.

So be sure to grab Tom's book, You Never Know, a Memoir at a Bookseller Near You.

That's our show for this week.

Thanks for listening.

Hello to Woody.

I miss you.

And special thanks to our friends at Team Coco.

If you like today's episode, be sure and tell a friend and subscribe on your podcast app of choice to get new episodes as soon as they drop.

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Thank you so much.

More for you next time, where everybody knows your name.

You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes.

The show is produced by me, Nick Liao.

Executive producers are Adam Sachs, Colin Anderson, Jeff Ross, and myself.

Sarah Fedorovich is our supervising producer.

Our senior producer is Matt Apadaka.

Engineering and Mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez.

Research by Alyssa Grawl.

Talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista.

Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Yen, Mary Steenbergen, and John Osborne.

Special thanks to Willie Navare.

We'll have more for you next time where everybody knows your name.

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