Bill Hader

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You'd walk by and someone go, hey, they're not using you.

Yeah.

Hey, they're not using you.

Yeah, you're not doing it.

Yeah, you're not really working on the show.

Welcome back to Everybody Knows Your Name.

I just spent an amazing hour, hour and a half with Bill Hayter, and my cheeks, it's embarrassing, My cheeks are aching.

I have been laughing so hard.

He was a cast member on SNL for eight years, where he became beloved among fans for his fantastic character work, especially the hilarious Stefan.

I can't believe we didn't actually talk about him, as you'll see coming up, but

that made me laugh so hard.

My wife and I,

huge fans.

More recently, he's he's taken a dramatic turn as the creator, writer, and star of the dark comedy Barry on HBO, which if you haven't seen, you must.

Ladies and gentlemen, the amazing, talented Bill Hayter.

Obviously, you know, preparing to talk with you,

I was YouTubing like crazy all

of your, like a lot of your interviews and podcasts with really funny people.

And it was like, you know, a gunfight at OK Corral with funny bullets.

It was whizzing.

You guys were so fast.

I thought, fuck.

I can't, how am I going to keep up?

Then I did a podcast where you were, listened to a podcast where you were talking about anxiety attacks.

And I went, a kindred spirit.

Yes, yes.

We can talk.

Oh, thank God.

Oh, thank God.

He knows what it's like.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, no, that's been around.

I mean, but now, yeah i've talked about that where initially it's funny it you know i've talked about that on different podcasts and and things and

um yeah there'll be moments where i'm like oh man am i going to be known as like the anxiety guy and whatever but i just know i don't know how you were but i just remember starting at live feeling that way and then i would i would google stuff and i could never find a thing that I related to, you know, where I was like, that's not, you know, it was either like not not enough or it was like

really intense.

And I was like, well, it's not that bad, but yeah.

And

just something to relate to.

So I, I, I have like a mixed feeling sometimes where I'm like, yeah, I don't want to be known as, you know, I've talked about it a lot, but then someone will come up to me, especially when it's someone who's like, oh, my kid, you know, heard your thing and that was really helpful and they really appreciate it.

And,

um, but then it's funny because just the people I'm around, I don't know about you, but I hide it with like laughing and being silly sometimes.

It's not, you know,

where people are like,

you know, you're just like nervous wreck and sweating and stuff.

That's inside.

That's inside, but outside, I'm actually being overly,

I will say most of the time you see me like laughing really hard and giggling on something, it's like nerves.

It's like,

just make, it's like trying, it's like like opening a, you know, shaking a Pepsi bottle and going,

it's like getting

all that out of your system

and being like,

you know, people go, you have such a great laugh.

And I'm like, oh, I'm dying inside.

I want to be home.

So

it's the death laugh.

It's the death laugh.

Yeah.

Where I'm like, if I'm on a talk show from a huge audience and I feel like it's bombing or you're not connecting with the host or something.

Yeah, if you see me going like, ha, ha, like, laughing hard inside, I'm like, this isn't going well at all.

Oh my God, I'm bored.

You know, I leap around a lot, so forgive me.

But when you say people aren't laughing or something, I have to bring up Will Forte.

Oh, my God.

Will and my wife, Mary, did Last Man on Earth.

Yeah.

You know, that he created, Drake wrote, all of that.

So we called him on our walk today saying, hey, give me something, Bill.

Yeah.

You know, know, and he said, Yeah, ask him about the fart face

sketch.

This is, you're starting to laugh now.

So no, this is actual genuine laugh.

No, fart face.

So Forte and I would do these characters called Jerry and Carl, and it was based on

Forte doing a voice at an after party where he thought he was going to get fired over the summer.

He didn't think he was going to come back to the show show because he didn't have a good year.

And he would, he came up to me and go, I can't get fired this summer.

Bill, I can't get fired this summer, Bill.

You know, and, and, and then that became these two kind of grizzled

businessmen.

And so

we were writing it, one of them.

And when you wrote with Will, you kind of, I mean,

I wasn't really much of a sketchwriter.

I kind of would sit back and someone else would be writing and I would kind of like chime in every once in a while.

But Will was his own kind of, you know, amazing mind that you i just don't know he's just one of those people it's it's so original and it's like he doesn't even know where it comes from but um and he's very ocd about it yeah very ocd very specific yes yes you know he would do a thing before you know about to go on air and it's five four or three and he would you know touch people and

you know i'm like so he uh

So most times when you would write a sketch, you would go, oh, maybe, you know, and you just talk it out and you would do bullet points and then but with him you go very linear so is it a is it a office so or maybe it's an outer office yeah maybe

what if it's we're in a car and then we go into the office well that's two sets so we can't do that so what if it's the desk is here and i'd be like i don't care

you know two in the morning doing the market paid you know i get really impatient so um

but fart face was those two guys and it was Josh Brolin hosting and it was about

those two guys

calling

Josh Brolin's character, who I think his name is Jim Deaver,

uh, saying,

uh, we think you're a fart face.

And Jim Deaver in a very serious and it's played almost like, it's very straight.

It's like,

um,

you know, Arthur Miller or something.

But,

but he would, you know, he would go, I'm, I'm not a fart face.

I'm a, I'm a very happy face.

I'm a happy man.

And he starts crying.

And then we say, we're going to tell everybody you cried in our office.

And

so we did it at dress rehearsal.

And this happened to be

the show that Sarah Palin came to.

And it was at that time the highest rated SNL episode in the history of the show.

And we did a thing called Fart Face.

We did it at dress.

It played absolute silence.

Right.

I could hear my foot falls.

It was one of those things where that awful feeling where you go and you can hear it.

It's like you could hear yourself breathing on the stage because it's just bombing so bad.

And

so we left and we were like, well, that's never happening, you know.

And Lauren Michaels, I don't know why, took a real shine to it.

And we went into the meeting and he had somehow moved it up in the order.

It was right after update.

and he had the note which we all remember which he goes there's i i had a boom shadow and fart face

when he's giving notes to every all the saw boom shadow and fart face and um so then we went out to do it uh and and and the weekend update was sarah palin rapping with amy polar and the audience was so hot they were going out of their minds and me and brawl and him are dressed as these characters, knowing this is gonna bomb horribly.

Like, we're about every the whole show up to this point has been just fireworks, yeah, and we know we're gonna blow it.

I remember we went there and we were sitting there looking at the audience before we went up, and Josh it was like the end of the wild bunch, you know, like we're gonna die.

And then Josh Brawling just turned to us and goes, Well, fellas, let's shut these fuckers up.

Oh, that's great!

I love it!

And we went out there, and it died.

This is your friend, Will Forche.

Yeah, Will Forge tell this story.

Yeah, Will, because I think he's very proud of it.

That's why I love Will, because I would go, oh, I didn't get a laugh.

But for Will, it was like, did I like it?

Did I appreciate it?

He did a sketch that we talk about constantly called Potato Chip.

If you look it up, it's Blake Lively, him and Jason Sudeikis about a guy trying to be an astronaut.

And it's called Potato Chip.

And it's a sketch that we still talk about.

I don't know where it came from.

I don't know where the character came from.

I don't know where the idea came from.

And the audience was like befuddled.

And Will just he didn't care.

He just would come off stage and go, I thought that went great.

You know, and I would be like, oh, no, I didn't get a laugh.

And, you know, all my anxieties.

And he was like, no, that went, you know, for him, it went great.

And that was a great lesson.

You know, did you go to Seth Meyer's wedding?

I did, where he stood up and did.

What is that character, but he's he's like this evil uh yeah he looks like paul williams i think his name's hamilton or or somebody

but he looks like paul williams the singer and he's very very right wing yeah yeah like a neo-nazi basically yeah and he holds the microphone like this and he has yes

and he gave a and in this in the sketches he was always giving a speech and so he stood up at fred's at seth's wedding and gave a wedding speech

the bride side of the family was not amused not at all because he described her as he goes, I met Alexi,

beautiful face, cultish legs,

perfect tits.

And everybody was like, Jesus.

But we all were like,

this, well, you can hear on the audio, I'm dying laughing.

Right, right.

Because I'm like, this dude does not care, but you can feel everybody going like, oh my God.

But the thing I remember, he said, he said, you guys will, he ended his speech by saying, you will,

I will be, I will be there when Alexi gives birth to what will most undoubtedly be a homosexual baby.

And he goes, and I will be in the corner brimming with, I told you so.

And the audience was just this,

this very nice wedding in Martha's Vineyard.

And he stood up and did it.

And I was just,

I mean, it was kind of the laugh where I was terrified.

So I was like,

but it was,

yeah, just ballsy.

You know, it just, it really is just, you just feel with him is to please himself.

And, and I have to also mention John Solomon as co-writer.

John is, who now works on I Think You Should Leave and

you know, does Magruber and all those things.

And just brilliant, brilliant guy.

I agree.

Yeah, but, but ballsy, you know, it's, it's,

you watch it now.

Or yeah.

Or he doesn't care but there is no room and he's doing it for himself yeah and i i really admired it but it is a thing i'm sure if you watched it now you'd go oh my god i can't believe he said that yeah you know but yeah i mean he would he was yeah it was very bold

let me get over my sycophantish part of the uh podcast i have to just say you are You're one of my favorite kind of performers or artists or whatever.

You are, you're sketch comedy.

I've never seen anything like it.

And Will Forte said the same thing about you.

There's not a glimmer of,

I'm being funny, or I know this is really good.

There's nothing.

You are so embedded in that character that is outrageously funny and amazing.

And then you turn around and you do Barry.

I think I saw it at Train Wreck first.

It was like, oh, fuck.

You're a really good actor.

You're a good, really good actor.

Then you discover, wait a minute, he's an amazing director.

And that's such different parts of a creative brain.

I'm in awe of you.

That means a lot.

Come in and compliment me so I can relax.

Anyway, anything doesn't matter.

The Onion Field.

That's the first film 40 years ago.

That'll do.

That'll do.

No, man, that's huge.

I can't believe it.

Thank you very much.

Yeah, you are.

It means a lot coming from you.

So can I, let's back up.

So

school, not exactly your thing?

No, I was not reading.

You were not an academic, but you were a reader.

I did.

I do read a lot.

Yeah.

And then you became several things, but you were also a PA for a while, right?

And that was your entree into the business.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But you were

trying to be an actor at that that point as well.

Not really.

No, I

had I was came out and to LA to be a filmmaker.

That was always the direct.

I mean, that was always the thing.

So my idols were always filmmakers.

And then

wait, is this sorry, forgive me?

This is before SNL.

Before SNL, yeah.

And then what happened?

You then wanted to be, you always knew you wanted to be a director.

Always wanted to be a director.

And then, you know, what happens when you come out here,

I was doing, you know, set jobs and I worked as an assistant editor and a post-production PA and driving around film elements all over town and, you know, all these things.

And

I'm so jealous of these people now that you can just email

cuts or you can email links of cuts.

I would be like, back in my day, I had to take a VHS tape and drive to some, you know,

farm out in the middle of nowhere and give it to some, you know, hermit director.

But back in my day, a BHS is, wait, what?

What is that again?

Yep, kind of a screening room.

Yeah, whatever.

Yeah.

But, but so then, yeah, we, we, um, I, uh, what happened was I, I had a friend named Eric Philipkowski, who was a, I was a PA with, and he goes, hey, come to Second City, LA, and watch my, um,

my level five show, which was his final, final show, you know, if you go through the conservatory program.

And I went and I saw these people my age doing kind of like improv and sketch comedy.

And I went, well, I haven't done anything really creative the whole six years I've been here so far.

So I should do, I should just do something.

So I started taking those classes.

And

that's not aiming to be an actor still want to be a filmmaker.

Yeah, I was like, oh, this will help me as a filmmaker, maybe.

talk to actors and work with actors.

And then it was a thing that's really important was I did a,

I auditioned to get in the conservatory program.

And it was this awful thing where right next to the improv on

Melrose, there's that, that's where the Second City Theater was.

I don't know what it is now, but there's that parking lot there and

right next to where Fred Siegel used to be now.

And we all had to come out out after we auditioned.

And then the director would.

stand on the other side of the parking lot and you had to each come over there.

Oh, and he in front of everybody would tell you whether you got it or not.

Oh, yeah.

If you you got in or not.

And so we all sat there nervously, you know, at the time I smoked and we were like smoking going,

and you'd see someone go over and come back a little happy.

And you see someone slump away and you're like, oh, God, this is awful.

And he called me over and he just went, you're really good at this.

And that was the first time anybody had told me I was good at something

in maybe ever.

And I went, oh, and after that, just that, him saying that, I was just kind of walking on air for a bit.

And so that kind of changed it for a bit where I just became really focused on improv and sketch comedy and was like, okay, and then in that, I can, we can make short films and I could still make, you know, direct stuff.

And did you make short films?

Yeah, they weren't very good,

but I tried to, but I was in a group with the Matt Offerman,

his brother's Nick Offerman.

And so we were in this group together.

And Megan Malally, because she's married married to Nick, came and saw us and afterwards said, I'm going to tell Lauren Michaels about you.

And, you know, like, oh, okay, sure.

Right.

And then, yeah, I was working at Iron Chef America as an assistant editor and got a phone call from Lindsay Schookas, who's now the head of the talent department.

And she was just an assistant.

She went, Hi, my name is Lindsay.

I work for Lauren Michaels, and he'd like to meet you.

You're in LA, he's in New York.

Yeah.

And I had no manager, agent, nothing.

And I went, what?

And

flew out there and met him and and I was terrified and and Molly Shannon was super nice because Megan Mulally had Molly Shannon call me and Molly Shannon you know she goes I know you don't know me but I just wanted to say good luck and don't try to be funny just like he hates that don't try to be funny don't go in there and start doing your audition just go in and talk to him and that was a lifesaver because I didn't know what to do and you know how managers and you talk to people and they're like well you got got to go in there and you got to sell yourself.

So going big, you know.

But

I just, yeah, I just talked to him and

it was wild.

I just, you can see me, I think it's Tophor Grace hosting SNL and you can see me in the background.

I cut to the audience, you know, during the monologue and you can see me leaning against.

you know, with Mike Shoemaker.

That was when I was visiting.

Before, yeah, I'm on the show, just kind of like looking at it all going like, whoa, this is SNL.

This is so crazy.

You know?

And

yeah.

And then and then I auditioned a bunch and

then I did my final audition.

I've told this story before, but I got in

the elevator at 30 Rock for my final audition and I was like really nervous.

And the guy I got in the

elevator with, he had a bunch of props.

And I was like, oh shit, I didn't bring props to the audition.

I didn't know.

That's so smart.

I should have brought props.

And that was Andy Sandberg.

And Andy said that he was looking at me, going, dude, that guy doesn't need props.

He's so lame that I brought all these props.

And so we both were just silently sizing each other up.

And that was how we met.

Yeah.

And he was like, he looked like he was running away.

Like the, you know, the stack, you know, with the little, like, he just had all these things on his back.

And he was just staring at me.

I was staring at him and going, like, all right, this is the competition.

You know,

and so yeah, it was cool.

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I've known a few people

fairly well from Saturday Night Live.

Some of them, the experience beat them up.

I mean, valuable.

so appreciated being there but the competitive nature of getting your material on some people thrived some people didn't necessarily that's true i i feel like i was very lucky because of seth myers i always give you know and tina fey was the head writer when i showed up and then seth myers took over and both of them

And people like Amy Poehler and Maya Rudolph, and these were like the seniors when I showed up.

Amazing.

Chris Parnell, Rachel Dratch,

Daryl Hammond.

I mean, all these amazing people.

And

he,

I remember the attitude was

the DNA of the place is, you know, this place is competitive, but we don't have to be competitive.

You know, so it's just a given that your thing's going to get on this week or not get on this week.

And everybody goes through it.

So I would sit and see someone like Amy Poehler, who I really admired,

not get her thing on.

Like her sketch would get cut and see her a little depressed, you know?

And

oh, okay.

So that's just the name of the game here.

You know, it's, I don't know, playing sports or something, you know, good, good days and bad days, you know, and I went, oh, okay.

And I learned really quick that everybody, I was very lucky, like I said, that

was just very,

there was no like political laughter as a table read on Wednesday, meaning like certain people pulling for someone else and

all this.

It was, if it was funny, everybody laughed.

And

you would also feel it.

I remember I had a period where I wasn't getting anything on.

And I, I'm like, I wonder if people notice.

I don't think anybody notices.

And then Seth Meyers helped me out and goes, you got that Italian talk show host character.

Why don't you come in and let's write it together?

We're going to make it a talk show.

Let me help you.

Cause Cause I came in, I'm like, I'm going to, you know, I want to do something like you've never seen on the show before.

And it was like, nothing was working.

So we did this Benny Vedic show and I did it at the table.

I got a ton of laughs.

And then after it ended, people applauded.

And I felt like, oh, everybody noticed that they're applauding because it's like, Bill needs this.

You know what I mean?

And I felt so.

Yeah, it was very

kind.

And I was so grateful for that applause.

I remember Paula Pell especially patting me on the back afterwards, and that meant a lot.

So you don't perform unless the material you wrote got on.

You don't, or would you sometimes, had you acted on

other people's?

Oh, you would always act in other people's stuff.

It would just be, you know, if I write, you know, the law of avoid, you know, you would, if I brought up the only thing you can control at SNL was,

you know, I can write at least two great, you know, two pieces that I think are funny every week.

And, and then, and then whatever pieces I'm put into

as an actor,

whether it's a bigger character or the second, you know, cop coming through the door or whatever, I just, you know,

commit to those

the best I can.

And

that's it.

That's all you can really control.

Everything else is completely out of your control.

And so once you kind of give that up, then the show became fun.

It was just the live aspect TV thing for me.

I never got used to.

That was always very hard for me.

I don't know.

I hosted once in the 80s, and

I mean, Cheers was the front of a live audience, and there was adrenaline, and it was exciting, and you had some nerves and everything.

But there's nothing like Saturday Night Live nerves.

It is because you're slightly under-rehearsed.

Yeah, did you feel that way?

Did you feel confident when it was that before air energy of like all right here we go we're going on it's 1130 everything except the monologue because the monologue unless you i think that's changed over the years i think people who have their own voice comedians or stand-up or actors or whatever who have their own voice and participate in the monologue i didn't see my monologue until friday Yeah, maybe Saturday morning.

Actually, I think it was Saturday morning.

Yeah.

And mine happened to be Mike Myers.

It was his first time on camera.

Oh, wow.

And the bit was, for my monologue, was

there two worlds, simultaneous worlds going on.

There was a French

comedian standing up and doing what I was doing for a

French SNL.

And there was me standing up.

And Mike was hysterical.

We'd go back and forth.

And at the end, in a very kind of French over-the-top comedy, he wet his pants usually.

So that was my stand-up, basically playing second fiddle,

rightfully so, but nevertheless, second fiddle to Mike Myers and wetting my pants.

But

at one of the skits, there were

Nora Jones.

I think it was Nora Jones.

Anyway.

We're an everyday couple coming home from work, having everyday conversation, except the room is full, filled with, literally filled with 25 pigs

on the stage,

of which you know not what's going to happen.

Yeah.

And there are actual pigs that they brought in.

There were still pigs that were not there for rehearsal.

They came in.

Oh, my God.

Somebody asked me at the end of the show, how did you like it?

And it was like, I lived.

Yeah.

It was the most

statement I could make.

I lived.

Yeah, I got through it.

You know, you always,

yeah, last time I hosted, they were putting me in makeup for the last sketch, and I'm trying to run down what I'm supposed to do because I am a bit

dyslexic.

I'm not very good at cold reading.

You know, I'm a slow reader.

And so reading the cards was always something that was very,

I would read my script.

over and over.

And then if there was any rewrites before air, I would hound the writer going, I need those rewrites right now.

I need them right now.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, constantly, constantly.

And then sometimes they wouldn't get them to you till, or they wouldn't get them to you at all.

I remember one time I was in a sketch and I was a game, I was, it was a game show.

And

at, at, at, at dress rehearsal, I was a guy from Boston,

you know, and I was like, I think that was what was and I was a guy from Boston.

And then on air, we're getting into my quick change and they give me a cowboy outfit.

And I go what is this and they go oh they they changed it to you're a guy from Texas I go okay

so I get out there I go how y'all doing and I go but they hadn't rewritten the script so I go where are you from I'm from Boston Massachusetts

which is kind of confused confused

I was like, okay.

And I was, thankfully, I only had like three lines in the thing, but I was like,

you know, what happened?

And then the the writer came up and I'm so sorry.

I forgot to put the changes in and I fucked up.

And, you know, but,

but yeah, yeah, I survived.

But anyway, they were putting me in quick changes for that.

And I was getting ready and stuff, right?

And last time I hosted and they came up and they went, oh, we don't have time for this sketch.

We're going to just do a pre-tape.

And that's the end of the show.

And I remember Jodi Mancuso was doing my hair.

who works in the hair department, amazing legend, Jodi Mancuso.

And she turned to me and she went, hey, you done?

Like that.

And it was like, I could have cried.

I was like, oh, thank God.

You're done?

Yeah.

Done for the, like, I'm, the show's done, like, hosting the show.

I had come back to host and it was like, hey, the show's done.

Yeah.

And so all that worry, all that, like, what's my blocking?

What are my lines?

Everything was like, hey, you're done.

And I was like, oh,

I just kind of melted.

And I just remember just like doing good nights, being like, thank you, everybody.

Thanks, John Hamm, for coming.

Thank you, you know, but all the energy.

I survived.

It was the exact

feeling.

It's amazing about the amount of nerves that flow through your body when you step out to do something live.

Yeah, when the red light comes on, I still like anytime I'm at some live event and they go, we're going live and 10-9, I just, my whole body tenses up.

When I hear, because

on video, it's always 5-4-3.

Yeah.

And they don't do 2-1

because I did a soap opera in which I was horrible

for like nine months in New York, and it was always 5-4-3-2.

And it was, I never got past in the nine months I was on Panic.

And that was live.

It was, it was all but live, meaning if you had a half-hour show, you had 35 minutes of that huge computer at NBC back then in the 70s that you could have your,

you know, soap opera stored.

So you couldn't, if a set fell down, maybe you would start again.

Right.

So there it was in all.

But you had to know all your, there was no cue cards or anything.

There were cue cards.

There were cue cards.

There were cue cards.

The one I was on had a, they had scrolls, handheld scrolls that some guy, there'd be three union guys in the perimeter.

And you'd see, you'd be doing fine.

And you didn't really want to look at the scroll because I have trouble reading too.

I become pedantic if I'm trying to read a cue card or something.

So you'd be fine.

And then you'd see one of the guys, you know, in your peripheral vision, pick up their little scroll machine and shake it and look at it.

And you go, oh, I'm Fox.

Oh, my God, please, please, please, please, please.

I was hired for this show to be

the kind of the town cocksman, coming on to every person and smooth and all of these things.

And the night before, I had my first full-fledged panic attack.

Yeah.

And I called this therapist that we were all, we had all left Carnegie Tech and went to New York and lived kind of communally almost.

And we had all the same therapists.

And it was like crazy.

Anyway, I called him and he said,

and I said,

I'm not going to go.

I'm not going to go.

You know, this is too much.

And he said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't cut off your nose.

You want to do this.

Take a Valium.

So I took a Valium and I didn't realize Valiums in me do not get along.

And I,

you know, barely slept, but I had the valium and it was still in my system.

And I go down to 30 Rock or wherever it is.

And I'm in the bowels of the building looking for where I'm supposed to go.

And somebody recognizes me from something, I don't know, a commercial and goes, hey, hey, aren't you?

And I started to run.

Made no sense, no sense whatsoever.

And I got lost in the bowels of NBC.

The person didn't chase me.

I was just running.

Then I get up and I'm

doing this scene where I'm in a restaurant coming on to this woman.

You're supposed to be smooth.

Very smooth.

This is my first day.

She's been on the show for like two years.

Oh, no.

And it was effortless for her.

And I was Broadway news sweat.

I was sheets of sweat.

And the producer looked at it and went,

nah, nah.

We'll make him the town sleeves.

He'll turn in all all his friends to the mafia.

That's who he is.

Yeah, let's get this guy.

Oh, so 543 to this terrible.

Yeah.

Anytime you,

they were nice to me.

I did one thing where I was Elliot Spitzer in the cold open, and it was just me by myself.

Kristen Wiggs stood behind me, but she had no lines, and it was Elliot Spitzer when he got in all that trouble.

Yes.

And I

read that maybe a hundred times, tried to figure out, and Jim Downey had written it.

And Jim Downey was a famous writer, SNL, been there forever, and

very specific how he wanted things.

You know, you go up on this and down on this, and this is to yourself, and this is, you know,

and this comes out commanding, and this, now you're kind of hedging, now you're you know,

and you're going, so I'm trying to remember.

And then Chris Kelly, who's our stage manager, when it was for the that

live

he's even talking about makes me anxious, sorry, but the

live

show, and you start it.

So,

Jenna, the stage manager, all right, you know,

Bill, please come to the, we're about, you know, two minutes, you know, one minute to air.

Bill, please come out, Bill, put, you know, and you go out and you stand there, and I'm only in the audience kind of politely applauds, oh, the show is about to start.

And I'm like, just about to die.

And Chris Keller always go, five, you know, 10 seconds,

five seconds.

And then he would go, and he would, as a joke, go, two seconds, like scared, you know.

And then it began.

So then I go, hello, I'm Elliot Spitzer, and I start the thing.

Well, Jim Downey was so key up about it.

He was pacing right underneath the cue card.

Oh,

my gosh.

He's pacing, looking at the cue card, looking at me, and he's pacing back and forth.

So I'm trying to stay in character, but I'm going,

what's going on?

And then everything, if it got a laugh, he would go,

and but if it didn't work, you go,

and I'm trying to stay in character, but I'm like, get him out of my eye line because it's just like this thing.

And then just seeing him go.

And then afterwards, he was like, that was, that was good.

I like that.

That was very good.

Very good.

And I got the flu after that.

I was so

keyed up, couldn't sleep for three days beforehand.

and then steve higgins after that went we'll put you out there with somebody else for a cold open if we do another one you'll be a two-hander three so it won't be all on you because yeah i just was like i can't i can't do that again

my horror on stage came at the atlantic theater you know in new york oh yeah

all right we have a great friend neil pepe who is the artistic director and his wife mary mccann were great buddies Pardon me.

And he asked me to come be part of the 25th celebration of

the creation of the Atlantic Theater.

And they had 25 playwrights.

And they said, write anything you want, 20 minutes long.

It can be an opera.

It can be anything.

Monologue doesn't matter.

And then shifts of five

little one acts or whatever you call them would be one week.

And then the next would be another bunch of playwrights with another five.

So I showed up and you couldn't, you had one or two rehearsals with Neil and I had a 20-minute monologue.

Oh my God.

And I worked on it.

From what kind of

material was it?

Amazing.

It wasn't from a play.

It was, it was, he,

he sits in front of the audience and tries to, he's kind of middle management guy, uptight, trying to piece together why he's so horrified and he wants to work it out with the audience and he describes his day.

and at the end of the day it turns out that he is when he gets home his basement is literal hell so when he goes down to to feed the dog there you know stalactites and mites and hell it's hell and then he comes back up and by the time he's through walking the dog and jarred he forgets So it's over and over again, this, you know, revisiting this.

So I sit down.

Now, first off, it's that thing behind the curtain and the lights go down.

And I literally have to say to myself, my car is up back.

I could get in.

It would be embarrassing.

I would be the joke, the brunt of jokes for a long time, but I could run.

I can't get out of it.

I can get out of it.

And then boom, you sit down, you're there.

And I had psyched myself out.

backstage trying to run the lines.

You can't run a 20-minute monologue.

And,

oh, sorry.

And the week before, I I saw an actor do this same kind of thing and go up on a line.

And I thought somebody would whisper from the stage.

No, it was from the back in the lighting booth over the microphone.

Your line is, you know, so I thought, fuck, I better, I better come up with some classic way of asking for line if that happens.

So I was just setting myself up.

I sit down and 20 seconds in,

froze.

My brain froze.

And in my that, it was like sticking your finger in a light socket.

It was like,

fuck, what am I going to do?

God damn it.

I can't believe it.

My daughter is in.

Should I run?

Should I cry?

Don't cry.

You know, it's all this just.

Yeah, yeah.

And I thought, okay,

Darcy, who is the name of the stage manager,

what happens next?

I thought that'd be a classic way of saying line, please.

Darcy,

20 seconds in, is just sitting down with her coffee, hasn't even opened the script and goes, you know, scrambles and gives me the line that I had just finished before I forgot my next line.

So, you know, so I had to go back and go, actually, it's the next one, Darcy.

I was so fried with adrenaline that my poor daughter, who was in the audience, had to walk me around New York City block for over an hour drinking gallons of water.

I was

fucked.

And

adrenaline dumped just like.

No, Yeah.

No.

I, I, that you just telling me that just

like,

well, guys, my problem is like, yeah, that's my, I still have nightmares about this stuff.

I still, well, anytime I talk to Samberg or any of those guys, I'll be like, I had an SNL nightmare the other day.

And he's like, ooh, what was yours?

You know, or it's like, it's always that I'm going up, not knowing what's happening or, or, you know, what the scene is or any of those things.

And then, and then I know Melissa, but then, then, you know, it's kind of the anticipation of a thing is hard, but then when it happens, I weirdly will kind of, yeah, it's like being

a car accident or something where you're like, oh, okay, shit, this is happening.

And Melissa McCarthy and I, we just, I just saw her a couple of months ago.

And anytime I see, we always talk about that.

We were in a sketch together.

And

somehow I, and it's me interviewing her.

She's this basketball coach and I'm interviewing her.

And the cue cards got messed up.

And I, there was a big rewrite between dress and air and I had the dress rehearsal cue cards and she had the air cue cards.

So I'm having, I'm talking to her and I can see on her face, she's like, that's not what I'm looking at.

And I see Wally, our cue card guy, going like, like freaking out.

So to your thing, I had to find a way to turn around and look.

It's like, so tell me what you

Tell me what you were doing into the, you know, trying to make this move look natural.

And the guy was going through it.

And then you see a guy run up with the right cue cards.

And he's like,

and that guy's going, flying the goose and then pointing to the word, you're here, you're here, you're here, you know, and I was like, oh.

And that was one where in the moment, you're kind of calm.

And then it was like, you know, I got home and was like, oh,

oh my God, that was terrifying.

So yeah, anytime we see each other, she's like, you remember when we were on the show and that happened?

It is, it is some of the most intensely focused energy that you will ever spend in your life when you're on a stage.

Yeah, and cheers was you did it similar to the start stuff and they they loved it when we fucked up

the audience.

So there wasn't a fear.

How hard was that for, so I was curious watching that show and being like,

how would you know?

How often would you guys get rewrites on the day?

Would it be during the shoot?

Would they come up and go, that didn't work?

We would go do this.

Minor, because they, because you had,

we had a writing process every days.

You'd come in and you'd read and they'd say the story isn't right.

And you'd get a whole new script the next day, but you were rehearsing.

And then a funny person would come in and spruce.

You got rewrites every night.

But then you would, on shoot day, you would either get them right before dinner and before you show.

But it would they'd be minor by then.

Right.

And then when the audience left, anything that didn't work, they thought they could improve.

But it was, it was much more relaxed.

Yeah, that's wild, though.

You would have to, yeah, get just to memorize those things, too.

It's like pretty, yeah, I would, it is funny.

I became more of a crutch with the cue cards, even though I wasn't, I did a thing on Brooklyn 99, and I asked for cue cards, and Andy was like,

What happened to you?

You loser.

Are you Marlon Brando all of a sudden?

And it's like,

I was like, well, I thought that was funny.

He's like, nobody asked for cue cards.

You're the first guy in the history of the show.

It's like, oh, Jesus.

Oh, man.

Oh, God.

I feel so bad.

It's a slippery slope, cue cards.

Yeah, it is.

It is a slippery slope.

But, you know, Dan Aykroyd was the one on my third show.

He saw, he came and he saw that I was acting to the cue card and then turning.

So I would read the the cue card and then look at the person.

And he was like, no, you got to act right at the cue card.

Just don't look at people.

And then because the camera's right there, as if the cue card is your eyeliner.

So it seems like you're doing it, that you're acting to somebody, but we're actually looking past each other.

That's hard.

That in itself is hard.

And then you do a movie and you're looking at the person, you're trying to connect to them, and it's a different feeling.

And Martin Deshort came in with this character that was very, you know, why, hello, you know,

and he knew, and there was, because I break very easily because I'm very, I get very

stressed.

And so I'm like about to lose it at any moment.

And I'm just a very easy laugh.

So I'm sitting there, and but I'm like, I could just look at these cards and I'll be fine.

And the camera guys are putting money on it.

Like we, you know, they're coming up like, hey, I got money on you that you don't break.

So you better, you better have my back, man, because I just put a lot of money on you that you're not going to break.

And so I'm like, fine, I'm fine at dress.

I got this air, fine.

And fucking Marty Short knows that I'm acting right to the cards.

So when the camera was on me, he would

just creep into my eye line

and then go right back to normal.

And then we'll cut back to me.

Did your friend lose a lot of money?

I, well, it was, I, I, I paused i went well

so it was it became kind of a thing like he didn't laugh but he paused fred armison would get me all the time fred armison

he we did a sketch that was set that he wrote called short-term memory theater

uh where i was

a professor that was like, I'm a doctor.

I've worked,

a doctor that works with people with short-term memory.

And I'm like, I've worked with them.

They're in this play and they will not, I guarantee they will not forget a single line.

You know, I've worked with their short-term memory.

They will not forget a single line.

I'll be playing the patriarch in the play and it was kind of a, you know, kitchen sink drama thing.

So it's me, it was a newspaper and it's set in the 40s.

And then AD Bryant's the mom.

And immediately she,

I'm like, good morning, dear.

How are you?

Good morning, dear.

How are you?

I'm cueing everybody.

Because they all don't know how

immediately they all forget their lines.

And Fred wrote this so as i'm explaining even the top of the sketch where i'm like explaining the con the premise of it i hear fred laughing he's in the sketch but i hear him laughing behind one of the flats because he he just finds his thing so funny and then uh immediately so i'm cueing everybody

and then and then so before i went on john solomon was like hey man you know you have to tell fred what to say maybe have him we'll come up with something that he that wasn't planned right you know so you have to he has to say whatever you know and I was really excited.

I was like, oh, I'm going to get him to laugh.

And he had like a sixth sense or someone told me.

So he came on out and you can find this.

He comes out in a present day New York Giants jacket.

And he comes out and looks at me, which he had never worn in rehearsal.

And so I'm looking at him and I'm like,

and I go, give me the jacket like this.

And he goes, what?

What?

What?

I go, give me the jacket.

And he takes the jacket off and he gives it to me.

And he goes, is the playover?

And I completely break.

I don't know the playoffs.

And he just like, he was like going like this, like just looking at me.

And oh, God, that he really,

that one got me really hard.

That was, I was so proud of myself.

I was like, oh man, we're going to get him.

And when he came out in that jacket, I was like, what is happening?

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So tell me, jumping ahead, because I want to get to Barry, but how

what was the, what was the, oh, I'm leaving SNL moment?

What was that like?

Well, I was married

at the time and

had two kids, you know, and living in New York.

And I was like, you know what?

I think it's...

I think it's time to go.

And, you know, the people I had come at, you know, Andy and Kristen had left the year before.

And

Fred and I had talked a little bit and he's like, I think I'm going to leave.

And so

I told Lauren in February of my last season, I finally was like,

I'm going to move to California.

And

he said, wear it for a while.

You know,

like, you don't, you might not want to leave.

And, um, but yeah, so then I, I left.

And that, that was basically, yeah, just having kids.

And it was just moved out here.

Moved out here.

With a job waiting?

I worked at South Park.

I was a writer at South Park for a little bit.

And

I did a show called Documentary Now with Fred and Seth.

And then Trainwreck.

I got Trainwreck, went and did that movie.

And then I had done another movie called Skeleton Twins.

It was a low-budget movie.

And with Kristen and

HBO during that time said,

you know,

it was one of those things where I came back to town and they were like, hey, you got to kind of announce you're back in town.

So we're setting up meetings with you, with everybody.

And doing something at HBO was never on my radar.

And

I had this great meeting with Casey Blois and the guy Mike Lombardo, who was there at the time.

And they said, we really, and they were the only people that said, we really liked what you did in this movie, Skeleton Twins.

We like to see something like that.

Because a lot of other places I was going, they were like, we want a Stefan thing.

We want some more funny sketch and stuff.

And they go, we liked that.

It was funny, but it was also very emotional.

And,

and,

and, and so I told my agents that, and they go, we're going to get you together with this guy, Alec Berg,

who we also represent.

He's on a show right now that is, hasn't, I don't think it's even started shooting yet.

It's called Silicon Valley, and he's running that, but you guys should meet.

And so I met with him and, and, uh, not knowing, you didn't know him.

We did not, we, we had met each other like in passing, but we didn't really know each other that well.

And then we sat at this diner in Culver City and just like talked out ideas.

And we had this one idea that we were going to do and then kind of realized like, oh, this doesn't really work.

And then out of almost like kind of frustration, I said, well, what if it's a,

what if I was a hitman?

And he was like, oh,

I hate hitmen, you know, it's like, cause it was, you know, John Wick or Reservoir Dogs thing.

And he's like, I just, he goes, I remember he said, it's like dog catcher.

It's like a thing that doesn't exist, you know?

And I'm like, no, there's hitman that people do hire hitmen.

And we were kind of going back and forth.

And then I don't know how, but we're like, what if he takes an acting class?

I remember writing that down, Hitman takes acting class.

And then had like four other ideas that maybe it's this or this.

And then, um,

and I remember very well him going, Hitman takes an acting class.

That's funny.

He goes, that's interesting.

Uh, oh, that's interesting.

I remember he really caught that, you know, and then, um, and then we worked on it.

And we wrote, we wrote that pilot.

You know, that's the thing.

And

I'm sure you relate to these things.

It takes so long to get these things to make sense.

Yeah.

You know, and so we had the pilot and we wrote it and we felt really good about it.

And we sent it to HBO and they said, half of this works.

The acting half works.

The Hitman part is like from movies.

You know, it's, it's not.

set in any reality.

It's, we had a scene I remember that Amy Grab at HBO loves to remind me of that where it was a a barbecue with a bunch of Hitmen at a barbecue, which she was like, what the fuck is this?

This does not exist.

This does, I don't know what this is.

And we were like, okay.

And then, and again, then I was like, well, what if he's a Marine?

And then they went, yeah, that like kind of, now we're in the real world, you know?

So it was just those tempo moments, but to get from Hitman takes an acting class to Marine was like a year, you know, and then you went, oh, okay, now this works.

So now, you know, and then we just kind of built it from there.

Did you know what the tone was going to be?

Not really.

I mean, it tone is a weird thing, you know, it was kind of

that was that conversation with HBO kind of got us to the tone, you know, because make the hitman real.

Real, okay, he's a marine.

Okay, that's interesting.

And then, so then you look into marines and

and uh that world.

And I talked to some marines and

read up on that.

And then

Alec and I just started building the story.

And then

I don't think anybody really understood what they had or HBO understood what it was until they saw the pilot.

And then they went, oh, okay.

This is

kind of dark and cinematic, but it's like dark

kind of drama first that happens to be funny, that has comedy in it.

And that was the trick was

we decided early on the first scene should not be funny.

So, you immediately say, like, oh, it's this, and then let the comedy kind of come in

through situations and the people instead of

something like that.

So,

it was a thing that we always got the whole show is like, is this really a comedy?

And you would go, I don't know, I mean, it's just a story.

I mean, to us, it was always in the writer's room, I would say, what if there was a Vanity Fair article about this?

And let's treat it like that.

Like it's one of those true crime Vanity Fair articles, like it's too crazy, you know, strangers in fiction type thing.

And let's just treat it like that and see what happens.

Did you, who directed the pilot?

I did.

And you directed all of the last season?

They did, yeah.

How did you know you could do that?

Had you proven something to yourself earlier on?

Yeah, I give, you know, I knew I could do it.

It was the thing that my dad likes to remind me.

I told him once when I was a kid, he was like, the only thing I'm good at is I'm funny and I think I could direct a movie.

And he said, you told me that when you were like 12.

Wow.

He goes, I'm bad at everything else.

But what, but that's not a true different brain, though.

I mean, for me, I mean,

I am, I will, people ask me, do you want to direct?

Nope.

Do you want to write?

Nope.

I don't have that gene, you know, whatever.

I have friends who have those opportunities and then go, I just, I don't think I could do it.

And it, and it is true.

You have to have a lot of patience.

You have to really love it,

you know.

And you're a storyteller.

I'm not.

Yeah.

You, you, you do tell stories.

Even in little bits, you're telling a story that earlier on when you're doing Saturday Night Live or something, you are telling little stories in a way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, to me, it's just, it was, uh,

how do you make a thing cinematic?

You know, I get, I'm really excited by that.

You know, it's not just

talking heads and things.

It was like, how do we get this across in like kind of an interesting cinematic way?

And I think we're very lucky that we were at HBO, that they were into that and were into that tone.

And we're like, yeah, try it.

Cause I had tried other things at different places with that similar tone.

And they went, this will never be funny.

People won't find this funny.

And then,

you know, Alec Berg likes to always say, it's like he and I are next to a piano.

We're just hitting the keys and just trying to find the right key.

And there we go, just like that.

Oh, this is good.

This one's good.

But but yeah, you know, and then you know, casting it is such a big deal, like casting Henry and Sarah Goldberg, who's amazing, and uh, Anthony Kerrigan, and Stephen Root is one of my favorite actors.

He's good, nope, it doesn't matter where he is, whatever.

No, but I've admired him.

He's just the one of those guys where you just go,

you give him a little note,

yeah, and it's like,

wow, and then you don't know where it comes from because he's a very sweet guy.

But you just go, I don't know where that came from.

It's really amazing.

Well, all of you guys were

what I love watching is when I'm totally surprised, where, you know, that's what makes you giggle and laugh when you're watching anything drama, whatever.

For me, is, wow, did not see that coming.

Yeah.

Well, that, I mean, those,

it was a, it was the best experience I've had in my career doing that show.

I mean, it was,

you know, it was just one of those things where everybody behind the scenes and in front of the camera, we all like just clicked.

And, and, you know, it was just one of those great experiences.

Where'd you shoot?

All around L.A.

And then we shot a bunch of stuff in Big Bear.

Henry Winkler's character has a cabin in Big Bear, so we'd have to go shoot up there.

And that was one of those things I could tell Aida Rogers, our producer, where I would go in and I'd be like, hey, I would walk out of the Rogers room like, hey, we just wrote a scene that's at the cabin in Big Bear.

And she'd be like,

you're killing me.

Can we build it on stage?

And I was like, no.

No.

But

this guy, Gavin Kleintop and Wade Allen and Carl Hersey and the Paloe Dobro, they were our two DPs.

And then Alec Berg.

And my ex-wife, Maggie Carey, is a great director.

She directed an episode.

Did she direct them on with Will Forte?

Yeah.

Mary knows her.

Yeah.

And

then you know,

you worked with my old nanny,

Darcy Cardin.

Oh, my name.

Used to be my nanny.

I think she told me that.

Oh, God.

Darcy was, and she was also Mary.

Yeah, yeah.

So she was our nanny.

And she was when we lived in New York and her oldest daughter Hannah was a baby.

And I remember Maggie coming in and going, hey, I met this really cool girl

at a UCB and she's going to be the nanny.

And her husband's really nice, Jason.

And they came in and

they were like practically, you know,

lived with us.

I mean, it was so great.

And then I just watched her.

I remember her doing like these bus, funny bus tours in New York where she would be like, All right, everybody, we're going to, you know, she was doing every job.

She did good place at the same time as Barry

and something else, too.

I think League of League of

League of Their Own.

Yeah, she kind of blew up.

It was one of those things that was great and awful for me because I was so proud of her and so happy for her.

But then on the other end, we're like, shit, we're having to base the whole schedule around Darcy's availability because everybody wants to work with her right now and it was um but we were just i'm still just so i love her thrilled and just what you guys did on that show was amazing and i just was like i can't believe there's there she is and and my kids getting to see that that was the coolest thing was she would come to one of my daughter's dance performances and people that's janice and they would all these kids would run over to her to get pictures and you know my daughter is very like you know yeah it's my nanny it's my nanny my nanny's janice and i was was like, how about your dad's

Barry?

It's like, no one watches that here, Dad.

We're in elementary school.

Come on.

That's not a comedy.

Our kids would never come watch this work unless somebody, you know, somebody cool was on.

Yeah, we'll come.

We'll come.

Will they watch any of your,

do they get embarrassed, your kids, when they see you show up in something?

Or do they go,

my kids have done that, where they didn't know I was in something.

And then I, especially like an animated movie.

I remember taking my daughter to see Finding Dory.

Yeah.

And she heard my voice at the beginning and she stood up and just walked out.

You just broke the fourth wall for me.

And I'm about to walk after.

I go, what's wrong?

What's wrong?

And she goes, are you in the, she had a little lateral list.

Are you in the whole thing?

No, that's the only scene I'm in.

He's like, you swear you're not in the rest of the thing?

She's like, all right.

And she like came back in like super pissed off, like with little like cat ear things on.

All right.

And then we watched the rest of the movie.

But I get it.

If my dad showed up in the Millennium Falcon, I'd be petrified.

Like, hey, guys, Bill Sr.

Hi, Chewy, Bill Sr.

I'd be terrible.

That sucks.

I don't know if you know Mary's son, Charlie McDowell.

I know Charlie.

Yeah, he's amazing.

But are you sweet guy?

In high school, he and his buddies were in his room watching TV, you know, definitely channel surfing, trying to find something probably they weren't supposed to watch or whatever.

And Charlie leaves the room and his friend discovers, I don't know where, what movie channel it was, a film that Mary made that she won the Academy Award for.

Great movie, yeah.

And she does this tap dance, and she gets mad at the place where she, this dive that she's working in, and she rips off her, all of her clothes, throws them, and walks off the stage.

And that scene came on just in my

in Charlie's friend's defense.

He had just gotten to that scene, flipping channels.

Charlie walks in, and as far as he's concerned, you know, his friend is misbehaving to his naked mother, and he's like, You son of a bitch.

Yeah, you're disgusting.

Yeah, I don't, yeah, yeah, that's that's, that's the nightmare, you know, is, you know, you make all this stuff.

And

the only thing my kids have ever been interested in seeing is I was in it too.

I was in a the it movie and they've been to different sleepovers.

And that's like a movie kids put on at sleepovers.

And

so my kid did go,

I saw you in it.

I was like, oh, what'd you think?

She's like, first movie was better.

I was like, okay.

Thanks.

You know, but yeah, it's always, you know, it's really,

I like it that they don't, you know, I'm their dad, you know, that's, that's the best.

Yes, like they don't really give a shit about it.

No, my favorite, my daughter acts, you know, at school and she was in, um, she played Gertrude and Hamlet at her school.

And holy rolling.

Yeah.

And I was like,

and this was very funny.

We were walking down the street and this guy saw me and was coming.

He's like, hey, hey, you're, you're,

you're,

and my daughter went, Gertrude from Hamlet?

Yes.

Yeah.

That's great.

I thought that was very funny.

But that's what I usually get.

You're, you're,

uh,

I always get, you, I, I told my girlfriend, I'm like, everybody thinks I'm Dwight from the office.

And she goes, no, they don't.

I go, everybody thinks I'm Dwight from the office.

Oh.

And we were just in London and they'd be like, oh, my gold.

Dwight, not white.

Oh, my gold, can I get a picture with you?

And I'm like, I'm not Dwight from the office, but thank thank you.

You know, and the worst was we were in Seattle and we were hiking and these kids walked by and this guy went, Dwight, we love you.

And he was wearing a super bad t-shirt with me on it.

Oh, no.

And I was like, I'm on your shirt.

He's like, Dwight, we love you.

And she was like, wow, this is crazy.

People really think you're

Rain Wilson.

He's done a great.

Yeah.

I love him.

I had Tony Danza for some reason.

Seriously, there's no similarity except the T and the D for you guys.

And the first time I encountered it was in New York, and I was walking by these construction guys, and I'm halfway past them.

And they're like, hey, Tony.

And I naturally keep walking.

Hey, Tony, what the fuck?

You too good for us now?

And I got it.

Busy

for a handful of years.

It was so strange.

Get me to present.

What was the decision to not make any more?

Had you told your story with Barry?

Yeah, yeah.

It felt like the story.

We had written season, we were in the middle of writing season three when the pandemic happened.

And so during lockdown, we asked HBO, can we just write season four?

We'll finish three and then we'll write season four over Zoom.

And we did that.

And while we were writing season four, it just kind of felt like we all felt like it kind of ends.

Like, I don't know how you keep this going.

I have so much respect for that.

You know, you know, you don't just keep going because it's popular and you're making money.

You tell your story and get out.

Yeah, it was done.

And those are my favorite things, you know.

So it felt like, oh, this is, this should end, you know?

So we did that.

And

it was sweet, you know.

But I remember shooting like,

you know,

final week or whatever.

And people were like, are you bummed out?

Are you sad?

And it was kind of like SNL.

It's like, oh, no, you move on, you move on.

But I'll miss these people.

I miss the people working.

Sure.

You're working with.

I miss that.

But it is like, no, you got to, you know, this ends, you know, move on.

Can I ask what you're doing right now?

I'm writing a movie.

I'm writing a...

I'm trying to write a horror movie that I would direct, but we'll see what happens.

You're writing it on your own?

No, I write with this guy, Duffy Boudreau, who I grew up with, and then he

wrote on Barry and Documentary Now.

So, yeah, so I mean, that's kind of like, and then other things, just, you know how it is,

you work on certain things and it feels like, oh, this might happen.

And then, well, and, you know, so it's like, I'm, I'm, I'm superstitious in that way.

But, uh, but yeah, just writing, but really,

you know, I went to London and Paris last week on a vacation with my girlfriend.

It was like, it was the first real, real vacation I've taken.

She's a brilliant actor.

Oh, my God.

Allie?

Oh, okay.

Yeah, she's amazing.

Yeah, she's amazing.

And

just like an amazing person.

But we had a great time.

And then,

but yeah, I was.

Was this for the Olympics?

Did she go there?

No, we missed the Olympics, but while we were there,

absolutely.

Yeah, but yes.

But when we're done, it was like, oh, I haven't done this

since 2008, maybe.

Gone on like a vacation that didn't have kids, you know, and it was just

just and you weren't working.

It wasn't like

you're not doing press.

You're not like, oh, well, this weekend, maybe we can hop out and go to that museum or whatever.

It was like, oh, no, this is all.

And so that's been.

Really great, you know, and seeing my kids, you know, like that doing Barry was, you know, it was 24 seven you know i was it's hard and i'm and that's hard on the people that love you and care about you is you're not fully present you know so that's it is a distraction from who you are yeah the the interior for real who you are yeah and i don't care how philosophically bright wise enlightened you are you i think everybody falls into the trap of

of working just that you're busy and consumed with something creative, which is wonderful.

But the celebrity,

everything about it is distracting.

I find

Mary accused me of whenever I don't work for, as she says, four or five days, you know, oh, you've been out of work a week.

Oh, work, Ed, that I get kind of lightheaded and disoriented, and who the fuck am I?

And it's true.

Yeah.

I do.

I do identify as Ted who works.

Yeah.

And it's hard.

It's, it's good to.

Yeah.

I mean, that's a thing I've been working on is like, not just my kids and

but everybody in my life.

It was just for since 2000 and

geez, when we started Barry

2017, it's just been, you know, I mean, that's all I can think about, you know?

So

you're there.

You're at the place.

You're at like the swim meet, you're at the volleyball game, but your brain's going, like,

what if that, I don't think that works anymore.

And then I'm texting a writer going, like, hey, I think the thing we worked on yesterday doesn't work, you know?

And,

you know, I feel bad for Alec and the people in the writer's room because my brain just, I just couldn't let it go.

You know, I was just like constantly thinking about it.

So it was this interesting thing when the final episode aired, I just didn't know what to do with myself.

And I had a hero Murai who's brilliant.

brilliant.

He directs Atlanta and

Mr.

and Mrs.

Smith and stuff.

And he said after Atlanta, he's like, yeah,

it's going to be, it's weird.

You know, he's like, be ready.

It's weird.

How do you ground yourself?

How do you get

back to zero or look at yourself?

It takes me a while.

I mean, I mean, oh, man, I'm like, if I was in my 20s and met me, I'd be like, this dude's so lame.

You know, because what do you mean?

Oh, because I meditate i you know eat like trying to exercise you're not from the east coast or the west coast yeah yeah yeah you have to be like

oh okay you meditate

you know just say oh how's grounding yourself over there though

you know it's like but yeah

vegan zone oh okay oh you only fish now all right

um but it's it's uh

uh but yeah i mean yeah

meditation has really helped me, but just getting into some sort of a routine and, and, and also being curious again, you know, that was a thing of reading and, and having a, and, and, and, and it's okay to kind of have a schedule for the day that where you set aside time to, that's been the biggest thing for me is putting my phone away.

That was a huge thing, you know, putting all these things away and focusing with the people I'm with.

And I think when I was on the show, I lost a real curiosity.

I was so so focused on the show.

But then it's like you ask people questions, you meet people, you know, and my kids and, you know, Allie and Maggie, my ex-wife, like all these people have been really great in that way of showing me that.

So it's really just hanging out with

people and

like listening.

I hate that.

I hate that.

I hate that.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

No.

But it is, it is.

But yeah, I think,

you know, meditation, exercise, eating well, but, but also just,

yeah, I like, I like reading, you know, or, or you find a filmmaker that you've never heard of, or you watch a film.

Like, I watched this film.

I've always liked this, this Japanese movie called Cure.

It's a horror movie.

And so I find that director and I, I'm going to like check out his other movies.

And then I just, and that's so.

uh invigorating and really you know makes you excited about what you do for a living not that you had to choose but if you had to choose would you direct uh over act or act over direct or does it i don't know it's all kind of one weird i know it's something

in this movie you're writing yeah yeah but it's a it's a it's a

it's all like one weird job to me it's all kind of

writing you're writing a thing so you can act in direct you know but i think you're kind of extraordinary because i don't think that works for a lot of people

to switch hats back and forth.

I mean, when I watch you act, you seem so

connected to that reality.

The depth of truth feels so amazing to watch.

But you also are thinking about, you know, what the shot looks like, or you're also...

having written that scene perhaps you know i i find the idea of switching back and forth pretty rare because some people do it but you're you

not getting

yeah, it's well.

I mean, you're seeing the parts that we edited into the thing because there are times when, yes, Henry and Stephen especially said that I would be in scenes with them, and I'm going,

especially off camera.

Yeah.

Henry, Bill, can you please stop mouthing my lines?

You're the guy, you're the guy standing side live going, yes, yes, no.

No, but he, but yeah, I definitely, uh, yeah, I mean,

it's, you know, you, you, because you write the thing, you kind of know what the emotion is and you're relating to it.

And then you set up the shots and you kind of have everything.

I like to pre-plan a lot.

So then when you're in it and we're, we're in it, then you, you, you can really be there.

Yeah.

You know, and because you've planned it so much.

Yeah.

uh

but and you know what you're you're doing you know but then there's also been times times, I mean, there's every season we do reshoots because I've had some idea that I think is great.

And then we get in the edit and the editors are like,

what is this?

And I go, I don't know.

I thought it was good.

And then you asked the actors, hey, we cut that out.

And they're like, oh, thank God.

Like, we did not get that at all.

And I was like, okay, yeah, you're right.

You know, so it's always, it's a process.

And you do have to like

set your ego aside, you know, if you if you're going to make the story work.

Boy, that's hard.

That's true, I think, about the business in general.

Check your ego at the door, it looks like it's full of ego, but man, do you get ego crushed all the time?

And then you think, like, oh, I've got my ego in check.

And then people outside of the, you go, yeah, man, you realize we've only been talking about you for the last

and you go, oh, yeah, you're right.

Yeah,

I've been told, I got, you know, someone goes, Bill, have you heard the term emotional dumping?

And I go, what's that?

And it's like, it's when you just kind of like dump all your problems onto people and you're not, you're talking at them.

You're not really,

oh.

And I went to my editor, Allie Greer, who's amazing editor.

I go, hey, do I emotional dump?

And she's from Minnesota.

And she goes, oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

You go off about this and that.

and you're always upset about this.

And then it doesn't really matter what I say.

So then, yeah, you talk to a therapist about that and go, why do I do that?

What is that?

What is up with that?

I've become the older guy that walks through a door talking.

I don't even see who's in it.

I just start talking and adapt.

It's like, oh, it's terrible.

Wait, what does that look like?

What is that?

I have something on my mind and I start talking.

And then I notice that Joe is actually there.

So, all right, I'll include Joe in what I'm talking about.

But it has nothing to do with other people.

It's all, it's my monologue.

Sorry.

I would see.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's, I love that.

I should, I should do that.

I always,

you know, we have Larry, Larry David and I have become good.

Motherfuckers.

He's a motherfucker.

He's a motherfucker.

First off, I owe him so much in my life.

So I, and I do love him, but I love picking on him as well because he's so pickable, honorable.

Well, he laughs at himself too, which is fun.

I mean, his social graces are non-existent.

I mean, in real life, non-existent.

What is that?

He doesn't like going to people.

He doesn't like accepting invitations to people's homes for dinner because I can't get up and leave whenever I want.

And he wants to leave a lot.

And Woody and I, actually, it was Woody and I and somebody else were meeting meeting him for dinner.

And he got there early.

It was his idea.

And we came in and said to the maid,

we're here with, you know, Larry David.

And he said, oh, yes, he's right over there.

And Larry was finishing his last bite of his entree.

He had ordered and eaten early.

And because he had a better idea, probably involving some young lady or something.

I was like, whatever.

He's terrible.

You know,

I have a memory with you and Larry all in the same moment, which was

you were nominated for best actor in a comedy, and so was Larry, and so was I.

Kerb and The Good Place and Barry.

And

Larry turns to me.

We're sitting behind each other, you know, in our tuxedos and everything.

And he goes, we're going to lose.

And I said, don't say that.

We're not going to lose.

Don't say that.

I was kind of pissed because I had in the back of my mind I might win.

Yeah.

And you won.

And my reaction was to haul off and slug his arm like it was his fault.

If he hadn't said it, maybe I would have won.

Yeah, I saw him after that.

He was like, oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Congratulations.

Yeah, we both are like old movie, you know, we love watching TCM.

So he'll send me like, you know, he'll send me, oh, this is on right now.

And he likes very kind of sweet movies, which is funny.

Yeah.

You know,

like, you know, I don't know, like Ghost and, you know, Miss

Yor is on, you know.

Oh, my God.

This is great.

It seems like a sweet movie.

He's a marshmallow, really.

Yeah.

He likes very, and he doesn't like things that are too

violent or anything.

He's like, ah, that's not for me.

I don't like the violence.

Or mean-spirited.

Mean-spirited.

No, he doesn't like it.

He'll make fun of himself.

He'll put himself to the grinder as a character, but not, he doesn't like mean humor.

Yeah, he doesn't.

Yeah, he's like, I'm not really into that.

He actually does good impressions because he always, he's a.

I would do impressions for him and he would laugh incredibly.

He's got the best, he's a good laugher, you know, like, you know,

but he

he can do Rod, have him do Rod Steiger and

The Hard of They Fall

with

Humphrey Bogart, Humphrey Bogart's last movie, Heart of They Fall.

And he could do Rod Steiger in there.

And he was doing that when I did an episode of Curb, and I

was crying laughing.

It was so funny.

But if you see him have him do it, the people, the people.

He does Rod Steiger, and he does it really good.

It's really good.

Do you find yourself somebody like Mary and I will be talking, and it'll be just a word,

you know, know you know you stop fiddling with that you're a fiddler yeah I'm a fiddler you're a fiddler you're you're a fiddler that's what you do you're a fiddler and you start doing you start doing riffs yeah it's hard to not it's very very

contagious his his uh voice you know and and he loves asking he has it because I have a peanut allergy and I told him the story I go yeah He was so fascinated.

He's like, tell me more about this peanut allergy.

What happened?

You know, and I tell him, oh, you know, I, one time we were at this huge dinner for SNL and I won't name,

this actress was hosting, and they came to the table and they go, do we have any allergies?

And I go, I actually have a very, very bad nut allergy.

And they go, okay, so we, and it was one of those things where you share food.

Oh.

So they said, and I kind of went, is it okay if we just don't have any nuts in the food?

Cause I could die.

And everybody always, that's like my my joke,

but I'm being serious.

And everybody's like, oh, yeah, sure, no problem.

But the actress went, I actually want nuts, you know?

So we had to work it out where she got stuff with nuts, whatever.

And that is something.

Larry loved that story.

He asked me about it 20 times.

Like, tell me again about the nuts.

He also, I have a very bad story about a terrible trial balloon that I, I laid out where I made a faux pas and then I try to, you know, trial balloon where you go over and try to see if everything's okay.

And I had said something,

again, I won't name him, but I said something about to a guy, a scene that was good in a movie.

And

anyway, it's hard to explain, but basically I kind of inadvertently upset this actor.

I didn't realize that I

upset him.

And he called me on it and goes, you know, I was in that.

And I went, oh, oh, sorry.

You know, I was kind of being disparaging about a film.

Yeah.

And I, oh man, we were at a barbecue.

And Larry's already like laughing.

Yeah.

Whoa, so what'd you do?

What'd you say?

How long did you wait?

I waited like an hour.

And then I walked over and I said, hey, they're

grilling chicken over there.

Larry laughed.

He goes, that is the worst trial in the history of trial points.

So he

will always go, yeah, oh, they're cooking chicken.

That is the worst thing.

That's not a conversation starter.

That's just a fact.

You're just pointing at things.

It was true.

I did.

Did it work?

No.

The guy just walked away.

It was like, get the fuck away from me.

And I was like, shit.

I was like, God damn it.

Yeah, I messed up.

Oh, wow.

How's your family?

Did they like like your fame is everybody okay with yeah everybody it's an adjustment yeah it is an adjustment i think everybody's all right they just don't take me very seriously which is good yeah yeah how are you with fame are you okay walking around and being breathless well as long as they think i'm rain wilson i'm great you know

sometimes all right sometimes a little weird you know i i'm um

you know i'm kind of a homebody and i'm also i could be pretty paranoid and stuff.

So, yeah, I don't sometimes, I don't like it if I feel like someone's following me.

I don't really,

believe it or not, I don't, I don't like that.

Mayor, I do not like it when you're walking, and I'm like, hey, I just saw you

at this other place.

What are you doing?

No, this person's following me.

You know, I don't like that.

Mary's okay with people coming up and going, hey, I love your work.

Hey, direct in your eyes.

Cannot stand people surreptitiously taking photographs.

It's like, that's the new thing that, or it's not new, but it's the thing that everybody is.

Yeah, just, I, I mean, just, you know, you're on a plane and you're sitting there and the people, the person in front of you, yes.

The thing I don't like is when they have the camera and they put their arm around you and then just try to take the picture.

And I'm like, oh, we're not doing that.

Please, please ask me, you know, but I'm, I kind of, I don't really like taking pictures with people.

I'm sure it bums people out.

I'm always like, oh, no, I don't do that, but I'll meet you.

You know,

what's your name?

And then the disappointment on their face, like, who the fuck wants to meet you?

I just want the picture.

I don't even know who you are.

You know,

because what happens is you say yes.

This sounds like such a champagne problem, I know, but you say yes.

to somebody and then other people start coming over and then most of them are like, I have no idea who you are, but everybody's asking for your picture.

And

so I kind of just say no.

And also, you just don't know where those pictures will end up.

You know, you see someone's facebook and it's like neo-nazi

and it's like this is when i met

it's like

you know why did i you know i don't know so i i kind of just as a rule just i always say oh no i don't do that but what's your name you know and just try to meet him yeah and sometimes it's great and then sometimes yeah it's this yeah in london i said no i'll meet you and the guy went oh fuck off

just walked away and i was like well there you go there's the answer i love New York.

They're so direct.

It's like, hey, Ted, come over here.

Say hi.

Yeah.

I'm actually okay with that.

I like that.

It's not covert.

It's not, you know.

Well, being on SNL, it was like being in the Yankees, like home team.

So if you walk by, I remember,

you know, you'd walk by and someone would go, hey, they're not using you.

Yeah.

Hey, they're not using you.

Yeah, you're not doing it.

Yeah, you're not really working on the show.

Yeah.

I remember one time a cab driver, I was walking with my ex-mother-in-law, and we walked out the street in New York, and this cab driver pulled up and went, hey, SNL, you and your show fucking suck ass.

Suck ass.

But yeah,

calling me SNL is always, I'm sure everybody has that, but someone's like, hey, SNL.

It's funny how you remember the insults.

Nice things,

95% of the time is in, but when it's mean, yeah, you always remember someone being mean.

My two favorite reviews, I couldn't tell you a positive one,

was

Too Tepid Ted.

Or the other one,

this was after Becker came out and Mary and I had gone back to do, I had done a lot of press and she came with me.

And then we had to fly back to the opening night of it premiere here in LA.

But as we were heading to the airport after doing you know a week of press in New York,

I see Mary and there's a pile, which doesn't always happen when you hire a car.

There was a pile of newspapers in the back seat.

And I saw Mary kind of open one up and I'm, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm not really paying attention.

Then I see her out of the corner of my eye slowly start to push all the newspapers onto the floor.

And she read,

I finally insisted.

And

Mr.

Thinks He's So Wonderful Danson

was one of them.

And the other one was too tepid dead.

Yeah, you'll never forget Merritt, you know, but nevertheless.

You'll never forget those.

Yeah.

Any sort of bad review.

I think

someone my first season said,

I would love it if Bill Hayter,

Will Forte, and Jason Sudeikis would just walk their asses into traffic.

It was really mean.

We used to cut ourselves because you would go to the, because you would just go online and you would go to the comment section and all this stuff.

And it was so brutal.

And then I remember Emily Spivey, my friend, who's a great writer.

Great writer.

She's got a genius.

And she was like, why do you care about what some dude in his, you know, who's probably in his basement in Mobile, Alabama has to say about you.

And I was like, right,

you're right.

You know, and I had an experience one time with a guy who went after me pretty hard on SNL.

And he would do this.

He wrote for like a big website and he would do these kind of awards.

And he said, you know, best character, worst character, best sketch, worst sketch.

And he was like, worst thing of the year was Bill Hayter

as Herb Sewell is this old reporter character I used to play.

It's not funny, it's racist, it's misogynistic.

I hate this thing, it's no one likes it.

And I was like, oh.

And

then

months later, I'm at press for an animated movie I did.

And I'm at a table at Comic-Con, and it's one of those things where they just bring people over to you.

Like, okay, next is, and it's that guy.

Oh, my God.

Oh, okay.

So he sits down.

I don't mention it.

I just, and he's super nice to me.

And we talk about the movie.

It ends.

And then as he gets up, he goes, Hey, I just want to say, you know what, my favorite thing you do is I love Herb Sewell, that character.

And I went, okay, I wasn't going to say anything, but it's a little weird because you wrote that it was the worst thing ever

on a big website.

And he went, oh, well, yeah, I wrote that.

And a couple of friends said, no, it's funny.

So I went back and watched.

And I was like, no, it's funny.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

And that was kind of a gift to me because I went, oh, social media.

It's just, or reviews, whatever.

You just go,

they might change their mind.

You know, today they don't like it tomorrow.

But it was kind of a thing of like, okay, I'm going to let this go.

You know what I mean?

I'm like, I'm just going to let this go.

But I will say, last season of Barry, I was like,

because we ended it and I wanted to know, God, did we land it or not?

And I, we took some big swings and stuff.

And so that I was a little like reading reviews and going, ooh,

cool.

You know, and I learned my lesson.

My, my, um, publicist was like, don't, you don't, you don't have to read this.

And I was like, yeah, you're right.

You know,

I, I'm not on social media for that.

I'm too thin-skinned.

I, I don't want to, I don't want to live in that world.

You know, no, I, I know I would be addicted to it.

Yeah.

You know, I would just be addicted to it.

I'm just, I'm already addicted to just like, texting people.

It's not good when people go, man, you get back to me like right away.

I know, I know.

Emails you can ignore.

Yeah.

Texting you have to answer.

I'm like, oh, this is it.

You know, and it's like, aren't you driving?

And I'm like, oh, yeah, don't worry about it.

You know, but is that cup coffee, by the way?

Yes.

Do you guys like coffee?

Oh, I love it.

I'm down to two.

I heard an interview or something.

I'm down to two in the morning.

That's good.

And let me not be a full-on liar and one in the afternoon.

It's hard, man.

It's like, it's, you know, Alyssa, my assistant, was like, do you want a coffee?

And then, and I was driving here and I was like, I've already had two,

but I'm jet lagged.

I've been up since 1 a.m.

So I'm like, yeah.

Yeah.

I'm just like up at 1 a.m.

And I texted Ali.

I was like, I'm up at 1 a.m.

She's like, so am I.

Like, we're just turned around.

Hey, thank you so much.

Oh, man.

Thanks for having me.

This is a conversation stopper, but we're kind of at the end anyway.

You really are, I mean, a talented, amazing actor, writer, director.

You really are.

Well, thanks.

Yeah.

And that's really nice of you to means the world coming from you, man.

And yeah, my kid, I was like, I'm going to go do a podcast.

And they were like, you never do.

podcasts.

And I was like, well, it's Ted Dance.

And he's like,

greatest.

He's one of the greatest.

And they were like, oh, my God.

Oh, okay.

You know, because they're, yeah, good place.

And, you know,

so they're like, what?

You know, and I will also say, Three Men and a Baby is getting a renaissance.

It's getting a renaissance.

Oh, I didn't know that.

Kids now know that.

I was talking to

one of my kids, and I went, What'd you guys watch?

We watched Three Men and a Baby.

I was like, Really?

Oh, cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Leonard Nimoy directed wild.

Isn't that wild?

I want you to talk to the baby, make the baby laugh.

Hey, give yourself a treat.

Watch Barry on HBO.

If it's the last thing you do, no, it won't be the last thing you do.

It is my favorite kind of dark,

funny, human comedy.

It's my favorite kind of comedy.

That's it for this week's episode.

Special thanks to Woody and special thanks to our friends at Team Coco.

If you like these episodes, please tell a friend and subscribe on your favorite podcast app.

If you have some time, a great rating and review on Apple Podcasts helps a lot.

So

please, thank you.

Well, see you next time where everybody knows your name.

You've been listening to where everybody knows your name with Ted Dance and Woody Harrelson.

Sometimes.

The show is produced by me, Nick Leo.

Executive producers are Adam Sachs, Colin Anderson, Jeff Ross, and myself.

Sarah Fedorovich is our supervising producer.

Our senior producer is Matt Apodaka.

Engineering and Mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez.

Research by Alyssa Grawl.

Talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista.

Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Gen, Mary Steenbergen, and John Osborne.

Special thanks to Willie Navarre.

We'll have more for you next time where everybody knows your name.

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