Chelsea Handler

At the University of Arizona, we believe that everyone is born with wonder.

That thing that says, I will not accept this world that is.

While it drives us to create what could be,

that world can't wait to see what you'll do.

Where will your wonder take you?

And what will it make you?

The University of Arizona.

Wonder makes you.

Start your journey at wonder.arizona.edu.

You made me cry.

I would love to make you cry on your own podcast.

Welcome back to Where Everybody Knows Your Name.

Chelsea Handler is my guest today, and she is one of the hardest working folks in comedy.

Since her groundbreaking show, Chelsea Lately, in 2007, she's written six books that have topped the New York Times bestseller list.

She's sold out shows around the world and been named one of Time magazine's 100 most influential people.

You can listen to her show, Dear Chelsea, wherever you find your podcasts.

And you can visit ChelseaHandler.com to see if her high and mighty tour is coming to a city near you.

So let's get to it.

Meet Chelsea Handler.

Why did I get so lucky that you're here?

Seriously.

I'm always.

I would not pick me if I were you.

Really?

Yeah.

You know that I like older men, right?

I just spilled my coffee all over my lap.

Did you, and you just went to the bathroom, too.

So that's two older man things.

Was that okay?

I mean, you've been to the bathroom twice since I arrived five minutes ago.

One was to wash my hands.

I forgot.

Oh, okay.

I'm just saying.

I'm just throwing that out there and making sure everything's okay.

Is everything running okay?

Did everything.

Do you think I can keep up with you bantering?

Yeah, slow down.

Such a scared.

I will slow down.

I think you can.

And I think you could probably.

Well, what happens is I scream and I fall to the ground like, you know, the heroine in a bad movie is about to get eaten by a gorilla.

They fall prematurely.

They could get up and run.

Okay.

Yeah, that's me.

I understand your condition now, and I will take that into consideration.

Thank you.

I will take that into consideration.

I went into the other room.

We have the sweetest group of people, starting with Conan.

And everyone who works here in this building is Conan-esque.

Oh, that's nice.

I went in and said, I'm terrified.

I am so,

I am so not like you.

I am not courageous.

I'm not, I'm not quickly, rapidly funny.

I am, I play it safe in some areas in my life.

All of those things.

So anyway, whatever.

I won't characterize myself.

I'm very happy you're here.

I'm happy to be here.

And thank you.

And now that I know you're so scared of me.

Terrified of you.

I'll rein it in.

I'll rein it in.

This is is generally speaking most men's reaction to me, just so you know, you're not alone.

Men feel this way about me.

They think that I'm a little bit, not that you're saying I'm overbearing or in your face.

But that's a lot of men feel that way towards me.

But I understand that.

Shit, I hate that.

Well, no, it's okay.

It's okay.

It's part of the fabric of who I am.

You know, I'm not, I'm not mad about it.

No, I wasn't worried about you.

I was worried about me being like most men.

No, no,

no.

Most men, like you, the fact that you're willing to sit down with all of those feelings towards me shows me that you are a real man.

Yeah.

Oh, God.

So there you go.

I'm very excited because this is true, by the way.

I get scared about pretty much everyone who walks through the door because I don't at parties, I don't go across the room and say hi and have a nice, wonderful chat with somebody.

I do the false humility thing, which is so boring and not real.

And I don't meet a lot of people.

I'm not Woody Harrelson.

Yeah, Woody.

you are woody makes his rounds i was at a i was at a dinner party with woody a few months ago and we were like two magnets just you are crossing the room to bump into each other you are you're both you're yeah you are you're much better woody but you are in that that you know you you you are you like joy you like taking chances you like scaring yourself you're bold you're big you're bright you're smart you're a bunch of contradictions that's woody thank you yeah Yeah.

Thank you.

Appreciate that.

Yeah.

I think we're all a bunch of contradictions when we boil it down.

Don't you think most people are pretty contradictory?

Because you can have one side of you and we're so multi-dimensional.

You know, nobody's just one thing.

So like, you know, if you're a public-facing person, people see what they, you know, like they kind of see you as like a one thing, you know, how they want to see you.

But, but as we know, people are multi-dimensional.

So they have lots of different sides to them.

So it's always interesting when you get to know somebody a little bit more and you're like, oh, wow, I didn't expect that or I didn't know that.

Like for you to say you're shy is very surprising to me.

I'm going to try to give myself cred in front of you.

Do you know my wife, Mary Steenberg?

Yes.

She's my cred.

Have you hung out with her?

Yes, yes.

She's very, very cool.

Yeah.

She's, yeah, yeah.

Good, that good landing on that.

Yes, thank you.

I get a lot of people double taking me because they see that I'm, she's with me and that's quite lovely.

And otherwise, you're with Woody.

So you've got all your bases covered.

Woody.

Yeah.

No, here's the other thing.

You both are very similar.

You're peripatetic.

Do you like that?

You don't stop moving.

You have to move.

Woody lasted for 17, 18 episodes on this show.

And then we're, oh, I gotta, I gotta go.

I gotta bounce.

Bounce.

Yeah, I can relate to that completely.

Why is that you?

Just boredom.

You know what I mean?

Like, I'm, I need action.

And I, I need a lot.

Like, I, I, I go, go, go, go, go.

And then I crash, crash, crash, but I don't have a problem with that schedule.

Like, I, people will be like, well, why don't you have more of a moderate lifestyle?

No, this is how I want to live.

I want to go, go, go, go, crash, crash, crash.

Are you beholden, beholden to anyone right now?

As far, I mean, you're not married.

As a lover, you mean?

As a lover, as a dog owner, as a

dog.

Family member who's living with you, somebody where, or can you just go home and go to sleep whenever you want for a weekend, like I heard you say or something, and then go again?

Yeah, I do that quite frequently.

Like, if I go, like recently, I went on a trip to Ibiza.

It was impromptu.

My friends were all there, and they were like, come, come, come.

And I was like, you know what?

I was on my way to New York.

I thought maybe I'd just do a little trip through Ibiza from LA and then back to New York.

Like that was on the way.

You know, in my mind, I'm like, that's a little kind of fun excursion.

And I went for three days.

And Ibiza, as you may have heard, is pretty much, you know, a party situation.

And so it was.

It was a party situation.

I haven't heard that, Chelsea.

But go on.

So I go and I party and I'm out, you know.

And I mean, I went to bed one night at three, one night at one.

And then the next night was until six in the morning.

And then I got to New York.

I got to my hotel.

I've slept the entire plane ride.

I got to my hotel room and I slept for another 14 hours.

And then I got up and started working again.

So that's kind of my machine.

Like,

I mean, that's kind of how I operate.

And it works for me.

I wouldn't suggest it or recommend it to a person with a regular lifestyle and a nine to five job, but it keeps me on my toes.

Yeah.

And I need to be stimulated.

Got it.

Do you do you think that the, I don't know, teenage you would have thought 50 would have looked so good as it does and so energized and doing anything you want and top of your game?

Thank you.

I, I, um, my father had a heart attack when he was 52, and he was old.

And I remember looking at, like, thinking, he didn't die at that point, but I remember thinking, oh, well, he's 52.

It's time probably for him to go.

Like, I thought that was such an old age.

And so it's so crazy to think about when you get to be the age that you thought your parents were old at and then to be living a completely different life.

So, no, to answer your question, no, I didn't think it would be this fun or this rewarding or that I'd be so lucky in my career and life and lucky to kind of get through all of those zones where people told me I was supposed to do something like get married or have a child, and that I got through those phases of life unscathed.

Like, I was close to getting married a couple of times, I was like,

Don't do it, don't do it, and I didn't do it, I listened to my gut, and then you know, with children, that just really wasn't at the foreground of my mind.

But I'm so grateful now because I do not have any regrets in either of those situations.

Now, if I get married as a fluke,

it would be because I don't have to follow that, you know, what any society is telling me.

So I feel pretty grateful that I've had my own guts and decision making, that I didn't, that I'm not a follower, you know?

Yeah.

A lot of women that I speak with are like so confused about their decisions that they've almost forgotten what they actually want.

Where you came out of your family that way, though, almost by necessity, seems like, meaning your upbringing, father, mother, kind of tough?

Well, I wouldn't say they were tough.

I would say they were, it was a, no, nothing was tough.

My dad was tough, but my mom was sweet and lovely and shy and quiet, very antithetical to who I am.

Like, you would never know.

She didn't even know what to do with me.

She's like, oh my God, you're my daughter.

Like, why are you, why won't you shut the fuck up?

But my dad was loud and he was like, you know, boisterous.

And I, I think I just saw the dynamic.

First of all, I had five brothers and sisters and I was like, oh my God, this is too many people already.

Like, where were you in the count?

Youngest of six.

Oh, so you had to be a little loud.

Oh, yeah.

I had to learn how to get my voice heard.

And also,

like, to get attention, not for the wrong stuff, you know what I mean?

Or the stuff like, yeah, I was cute.

I had blonde hair and I was precocious.

So that always got me a lot of attention, but I wanted attention for being more than that.

You know, I wanted to be bright.

So, I was very, and my dad saw that I was getting a lot of attention for being loud and cute.

And

he was like, You better start reading books right away.

So, I literally had to read books when I was like seven or eight.

I read Anna Karenina by Tolstoy.

I read East of Eden when I was eight.

I had to give a book report in our kitchen.

So, I value that aspect of my childhood because it did make me bright and it made me love books.

But I also just felt growing up, watching my parents, my mom's kind of reliability on my father and her lack of

like authorship of her own life in a sense.

You know, I saw that and I recognized that as something that I didn't want to have in my life.

I didn't want to have to be dependent upon another person.

And I didn't want to have to have all the responsibilities she had.

I wanted to like fly.

and be free.

And you are, dear Lord.

That's pretty amazing.

You know those books you just mentioned?

Yeah.

And I nodded, yeah.

Yeah.

You haven't read them.

No, they're the books that I lied about reading to my teachers.

And I've lied for so long about them that I do know.

You believe you've read them.

I believe I read them.

Well, by osmosis, you have read them now because you're sitting with me and I've read them.

So I could tell you all about them, anything you need to know.

But it was great because I hated it when it was happening.

You think as an eight-year-old, you want to sit there and read about a spurred lover, you know, jumping off a train because her boyfriend doesn't like her.

Like, I was like, dad, this is too intense.

You know, I was trying to go to school and they were like, Humpty-dumpty sat on a wall.

And I'd be like, which one?

China or Berlin?

You know, and not like I was some genius child, not at all.

I just had a nice balance of like,

of like what is going to get me far in life.

And also like, you know, a lot of love in my family, a lot of trauma.

My brother died when I was young.

So that impacted our family, but just chaos.

And so I kind of swirl around in chaos.

I enjoy it.

That's so interesting because I'm the exact opposite.

Right.

And I mean,

I'm painting myself horribly, but you're painting yourself like a hermit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, a hermit with Mary Steenbergen in my cave.

So it all works out

really, to be honest.

But I do, chaos, I try to put things in order and Mary is much happier with chaos.

I know that I'm in a healthy state of mind, the more chaos I can accept in my life.

If I'm upset emotionally, oh, dear Lord, I'm so linear.

Really?

Yeah.

Okay, so out you come this way, courageous, bold.

Vaginally.

You came out vaginally.

See, right now I said the word because I wanted to be hip and stay with you, but oh, I just started to sweat saying the word vaginally.

Okay, but it's okay.

It's a medical term.

No, I understand.

And you're an obstetrician.

So, I mean, why not say it?

And I'm a gynecologist.

So we're all set.

Oh, man.

Let me just take a break and sweat for just a second.

Out you come, fully baked to be able to do this job that you're doing, but when you stand up, making people laugh, being not controversial, but...

prodding people into looking at all sorts of different things that they might not.

So how did that first, how did you first get get on stage?

When did you first do that in public?

I did that when I was like 21 years old.

Um,

and I did like three minutes at the laugh factory.

And you were, you used to have this thing where you would line up at the laugh factory in the middle of the night to get one of those open mic slots.

And I had never thought about doing stand-up until I gave, I had to give like a speech kind of thing.

And everyone came, and I was so nervous for this speech.

I was so nervous about public speaking.

Like it, it honestly, you know, gave me diarrhea.

Like the thought of it, I was like, oh, God, I can't do this.

I can't publicly speak.

And people say they would rather be shot by a firing squad than publicly speak.

You know, many people feel this way, even actors a lot.

Right.

And I felt that way.

But getting on stage and telling this story to the small group of people that I had before I did my set at the Laugh Factory, everyone came up to me, not everyone, but many people came up to me from this group and the small setting.

And they were like, you should be a stand-up comedian.

Your storytelling is really really engaging and very funny.

And I was like, Stand-up comedian.

I don't think I, I, I, I don't know what that is.

But after

getting off that stage and having the feeling of kind of facing a fear and the adrenaline that comes from that, of like, not only did I face the fear, I actually succeeded.

Like, it was a success that I was like, okay, let me try stand up, even though it scared the living shit out of me.

It completely did and did for many years when I started doing it.

I made myself do that.

And that was when I learned about overcoming the stuff that makes you like, it's okay, you know, because I didn't care about failing.

I had nothing to lose.

I was a waitress at that point.

It didn't matter if I failed.

I was waiting tables anyway.

So that was my job.

I didn't think I was going to make a career doing stand-up.

I thought, maybe this is an avenue to like become successful in this industry.

And the more I did it, and the more I realized I could write my own material and not speak someone else's words and speak my own words and not have somebody tell me what to do, which I've never really had a good relationship with, like being directed all the time or being told you have to be here this time.

Being a stand-up comedian allowed me to kind of create jobs around that.

And my talk shows were created around me.

Even when I did sitcoms, they were created around me.

So unbeknownst to me at the time, I didn't realize how much, you know, authorship that gives you being a comedian, but it proved to be like one of the best kind of decisions I ever made because it opened up a whole world for me where I don't really have to answer to anyone.

I mean, I guess the government soon, they're coming.

But I don't, so far in my career, I've never really had to say,

you know, let me do my thing.

Like nobody really gets to tell me not to do my thing.

Do you remember what?

Knocking on wood here, knocking on wood.

We'll get to that.

I guess we have to.

We don't have to i mean i don't know do we it's

dark it is dark so let's keep light for a second okay do you remember how you what your bit was sorry to call it a bit but what did you step up on stage with a story i think i was complaining about waiting tables and people having taking a long time to make decisions about lunch and how dumb that is you know like what are your specials i was like so who could like just pick something from the menu this you're not even going to remember that you ate here, hopefully, you know, like, hopefully it'll be that unmemorable.

Um, so I just had, and people who didn't, you know, I actually think everyone should have to be a server for about six months.

So does Mary.

She did it for seven years.

I've never in my life yelled at a server.

I've never not tipped a server because of bad service.

If somebody gives me bad service, I actually give them double because I know they're going through something.

You know, like I have such respect for that.

I have respect for flight attendants

and I have respect for the service industry.

And without being in those jobs, it might be harder to gain that respect.

So I think I was just bitching about how rude people are, you know, and how people don't even look you in the eye when they're ordering or they wave you over.

So it was like only three minutes of material, which is kind of hard to even think about.

And then I just started raging.

Like if I had it, like a topic that was happening or a boyfriend that was ridiculous or I would just go off.

And so I'm not sure if you're not going to be able to do you could do that without like writing something down or anything.

You could just swing it at that point in my career.

It was more about the chutzpah necessary to get on the stage.

I was like, just get up there.

You're good at talking.

Just get on the stage.

Because there were many nights where I would drive to a comedy club, whether it be the improv or the laugh factory or the comedy store, or any of these open mic nights, which are at smaller places oftentimes, where I would drive up and then just be like, I can't.

I would lose my nerve and drive home, you know, and go watch something on TV or smoke a joint or something and be like,

I'm not going to do it tonight.

So it became like, just follow through, just keep getting on stage and keep getting on stage.

And it wasn't so much about the material as it was as getting comfortable on stage in front of strangers and owning it.

Because the minute you're not secure with yourself, then you're not selling anything and you're not buyable.

Like, you know what I mean?

And I don't mean buyable in a profit way.

I mean, like, the audience member who sees you sweating and nervous and not knowing what you're going to say or being insecure isn't going to feel comfortable laughing at you because they're worried about you or they're making fun of you, you know?

So for me in the beginning, it was really about just getting my stage presence.

Like, I'm on stage.

It's time to listen.

You know, like that attitude.

That is so reassuring to the people in the audience because that's what they want to hear too.

Relax.

You're in good hands.

You can just

enjoy.

You don't have to worry for me.

I'm, yeah.

Yeah.

I should, did you, some of the people wrote what you just said down and they'll, they'll give it to me tonight to read over and over again.

I won't, because now I, I, my stage presence is different because I've been doing this for so many years.

So now when I walk on stage in a place, it's, it's quite the opposite.

I have the stage presence, right?

I've got that.

So now I get to be even more crafty and like, you know, artful with my use of language and the way I say things and the points I want to bring and callbacks.

So it's like the more you cement a certain skill set, the more it opens you up to improve upon other skill sets surrounding the initial skill set.

So now, like, you know, if I host the Critics Choice Awards or whatever, I walk out there going, everyone's going to have a good time tonight because I'm leading the show.

Like, that's my attitude.

That's amazing.

And when I do a show, if I'm in Philadelphia at the Met, I walk out and I'm like, everyone's going to leave here feeling much better than when they walked in.

That's on me.

This is your job.

This is your responsibility.

Like, I take it much more seriously now because I'm older and I understand the impact.

See, some people give the impression that that's what they're doing, confident and all of that.

You genuinely are.

Well, where is your, do you have, do you have moments of, oh, dear Lord?

Yeah.

Where am I?

What am I doing?

I mean, I don't have, I feel like at a certain age, and I'm, I, I, I wonder if you feel this way as well,

that you have enough data to prove that you know what you're doing.

Like there's enough life experience to understand you're good.

You know what you're doing.

You're reliable.

You're dependable.

And you're going to get yourself from this point to the next point.

That's how I felt about turning 50 this year.

I was like,

I have no reason to worry about myself.

Like I've proven time and time again that I'm going to land on my feet.

So, yeah, there's a different kind of confidence.

I don't think it's as loud.

I think the more confident you get, I think it becomes quieter.

You know, I think when you're searching for it, you're like loud.

So, when I was in my early career and I was brash and I was, you know, in your face, it was like I was trying to get to where I am now.

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At the University of Arizona, we believe that everyone is born with wonder.

That thing that says, I will not accept this world that is.

While it drives us to create what could be,

that world can't wait to see what you'll do.

Where will your wonder take you?

And what will it make you?

The University of Arizona.

Wonder makes You.

Start your journey at wonder.arisona.edu.

All right.

Do you feel like something now that you're 50, now that you've proven to yourself that you're capable of doing all of this?

Do you think you look around the world and the people around you that you love and you go, all right, here's what I need to focus on because this is a little strange time we're living in.

There's a lot of fear and sadness and anger.

Do you feel a responsibility to shape your creativity and point it in a certain direction or certain way?

Or is your job just to be

not just, but to bring joy, happiness, hope, and funny through the way you still have always done things?

Yeah, but yes, and like, yes, joyfulness, spreading laughter, sunshine, all of those vibes, setting the tone in a room, you know, making sure, like for me as a comedian, when I see two people in the audience that didn't come together, that are sitting together, that are like their shoulders are shaking and they're rubbing elbows with a stranger, I love that.

I fucking love looking out into the audience and seeing that.

But right now, we're heading into a period of time where people need to be

vocal about what's happening.

You know, I was, I was kind of like, okay, we already went through this presidency once.

You're not stealing my joy.

So I've tried to be discerning about when to comment and when to chime in because once again, I am just a public figure.

Not everybody cares about my opinion.

I understand that.

But we're now, we've entered a time where it's really

imperative that we do speak up and say something, and that everybody does.

It doesn't matter if you're public or private.

This is unacceptable.

The censorship and this idea of the freedom of speech eroding, and among all the other horrifying things that have been happening in our country.

I want to remain optimistic because that's my nature.

And I do think as women, they're like as a woman, it's so important for me to instill confidence and hope and optimism into other women first and foremost.

And I think that's one of the main reasons why we're in this situation is because of men's fear of women and how powerful and successful we are and have become.

And they, you know, they don't like that.

those kinds of men.

And that's, and this is kind of like, you know, hopefully the death cough of that kind of autocracy and peeling back of rights in our country.

But it won't be unless we're all really, really vocal about it.

And then obviously in a very nonviolent way, nobody wants violence.

I don't want violence.

I don't want guns.

I don't want any of this.

But we have to figure out a way to organize and galvanize because this is really getting scary.

I agree.

I'm not necessarily the person who speaks out other than talking through Oceania and talking about oceans and stuff that I feel I have license to.

I'm not the guy in the streets, but I'm beginning to think streets meaning peaceful demonstration.

And here, someone said, Why don't you go?

And I just explained what I just said to you.

But the truth is, when you demonstrate, you're showing to all the other people out there that you're not alone.

There are a lot of people that feel the same way you do.

And speaking out, even if you're, you know, just speaking out like we are now, it shows that

up to other people that you're they're not alone and so i think it is good to speak out even though i'm conflict avoidance i i understand that but it's also about you know the protection and care of others you know a big like a line that people say a lot i hear a lot is well it doesn't affect me that doesn't affect me that doesn't affect me and it's like okay as a defense for voting for certain policies or voting for a candidate like Trump when he's against women's rights or abortion rights.

And it's like, it doesn't,

I'm not getting pregnant.

You know what I mean?

It doesn't affect me either, actually, but it affects everybody else.

So it's like, get out of your own backyard is kind of my feeling.

It's not that you're fighting necessarily.

Obviously, I can leave this country if I want to.

You know, I have the ability to do that.

I'm not fighting on behalf of myself.

I'm standing up for what I believe is right and for all of the other people who don't have the guts or the, you know, or are too fearful to speak up.

Like, that's who you're speaking up for is what I would say to anybody who is speaking up, you know, that's how I think about it anyway.

It's not just about you.

It's about all of us together, which is, you know, going back to your Oceana, that is about all of us.

I mean, look what we've done to the ocean.

It's despicable.

Like we ruined the land and then we went and ruined the ocean.

Yeah.

I think you have to be smart about picking your fight.

Would you mind keeping your hands where I can see them?

I mean, it's behind oh okay i just

but one of them was moving around and i was are we on camera i'm filming is this literally i'm filming you

this is a live instagram actually it's not your podcast anymore i had a lower spine itch okay lower spine pretty that's a little too specific to be believable

Do you play Wordle in the morning?

Do you do?

Yeah.

That is the, you're the third person who has asked me that in the day.

No.

No, I don't play Wordle.

I do Duolingo in the mornings, actually.

Oh,

what are you lingoing from?

Estoy pendiendo Español.

Oh, fancy.

But not from Duolingo.

I take Spanish classes, but I supplement it every morning.

Si, porque Español.

Oh, never.

Don't follow me.

No problema.

Why are you thinking of, or you just want to

have your brain?

I have a house in Spain, and I spend a lot of time in Spain.

So don't tell me where.

South Sun, where?

Mallorca.

Oh, there you are.

There you are.

It's a big island.

Yeah.

Find me if you can.

Well done.

Yeah.

Thank you.

When did you do that?

About 10 years ago.

I gave that to myself as a gift after my, I think I left Chelsea Late Leaves before I started at my Netflix show.

And I went on vacation to Mallorca for my girlfriend's 40th.

And I was like, what is this place?

This is like majestic.

Have you been to Mallorca?

I have not or Menorca either.

I have friends that do have a house.

Okay.

Well, if and when you you go you will experience the magic that this island has it's like it's very pink the atmosphere like the light is pink everything's always pink in the sky the sunsets are pink it's very beautiful and vertiginous so there's like lots of mountain biking and a lot of road biking what is the foliage is it desert

it's arid it's dry yeah dry and mountain and mountainous but it's beautiful Anyway, I go there as much as I can.

And yeah, I have a place there.

I do that in the summertime.

And then in the winter, I go skiing.

I love to ski.

I've heard, but I don't, I just can't watch because you might be naked.

Yeah, I can't.

I'm not naked.

I'm in a bathing suit.

Okay, all right.

Sometimes people think I am naked when I'm not naked.

But I don't go around naked.

I don't know what anyone's talking about.

Actually, I know exactly what they're talking about.

But typically I wear bathing suits when I ski for my birthday only.

Yeah.

Not on the regular.

Do you have a lot of girlfriends?

I do.

Yeah.

I have a lot of like groups of friends that I'm on like, you know, part of.

Like I'm not the main group.

I like floating from group to group to group.

I have lots of different girlfriends and lots of different,

you know, like groups.

And I kind of am a floater.

You are.

Did you and Woody get along and recognize each other?

Yeah.

The first time I met Woody.

Yes, absolutely.

We recognized the spirit within one another for sure.

The first time I met Woody was at Willie Nelson's 90th birthday at the Hollywood Bowl, which someone else was hosting, but somehow I think Ethan Hawk was hosting.

But at some point in the night, he was like, you just do it.

But we were smoking joints backstage and it was ridiculous.

And at a certain point, somebody was too stoned to go out.

And they're like, Chelsea, you do it.

You do it.

I'm like, I'm stoned too.

They're like, yeah, but you can do this with your eyes closed.

And they wanted me to walk out on this like ramp that they had built, this like overhang overhang that went over the audience at Hollywood Bowl.

And I was like, There's no way I'm walking that far in this condition.

I was like, I'll go out to the center of the stage and read this script, but I am not walking.

And they were like, Okay, just whatever, do anything.

So it was one of those nights.

And that's the first time I met him.

And then I met him after at a friend's house.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's,

I, he's my magnificent friend who I love.

He's a lover.

Yeah, he's lovable.

I adore him.

And he's such a bundle of contradictions.

Yeah.

He'd come back on Monday on cheers and the rest of us guys were all married and we'd immediately wag our fingers.

Come here, come here.

Sharing.

Yeah.

Sharing what did you do?

Totally.

And he would have gotten in two bar fights.

His car had been hijacked, carjacked.

I mean, literally, this happened to him.

And all these stories.

And then you'd go, part of your brain went, okay, I got who he is.

I'll put him right over here.

And then he'd say, would you read this this play I just wrote?

And it's like the most magnificent, gorgeous play you've ever heard.

And a poem he just wrote.

And he's like this bundle.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's a redneck hippie, as some friends like that.

Yeah, yeah.

That's a good description.

One other quick thing on Shears.

Did you know Kirsty Alley?

Yes, but not well, not like you did.

We used to call her a biker chick from hell.

There is a similarity in your laugh.

It's several times you've laughed.

I went, oh, my God, that's a curse.

Oh, really?

Sorry, I had to get that out of my mind.

She was magnificent.

Yeah, she was magnificent.

Yeah, she had a big energy about her.

I like that.

I like when you see people and you can see their energy.

You know what I mean?

Like, there's something exciting about that.

It's very magnetic.

I agree.

Yes.

I agree.

That's why I hang out with

your wife.

That's why you hang out with your wife.

Mary's got that.

She has a big light around her she does yeah yeah yeah yeah for sure we're we're similarly shy in some marriage but we're 72 and 77 so that could have something to do with the fact that i don't jump off tall buildings with woody right right that's okay yes you have to protect your coccy

i do that's right and i do yeah

okay tell me about your books well i always just feel like when I have something to say, stand up and like books, it's kind of a lot of crossover, you know, like stand-ups, my stand-up is very much about storytelling.

I just announced a new tour I'm doing next year.

It's called the High and Mighty tour because I'm going to be high

and mighty.

Yeah, it starts in February, but tickets have just gone on sale.

So I'm excited about that.

And I'm excited about,

you know, weaving just the stories of my life together.

Like I have, I think in order to have anything to say, you kind of have to live a life.

You know what I mean?

You have to go out and experience things in order to communicate your and to, and not every comic is a storyteller.

They're not, some of them are just telling jokes.

That's like real traditional joke telling, which I always love and admire.

You, you actually know less about them after the set, you know what I mean?

Or nothing new.

Whereas my stories are really personal.

I have a great big family.

So, my books have been kind of like another avenue of communication between my stand-up and my books.

The books are there permanently.

The stand-up is very movable.

But there's definitely overlap in between the two.

And

writing is just a different skill set that I didn't ever think I, I didn't graduate from college.

I didn't think I could become a New York Times best-selling author.

I took such joy in the first time that I was a New York Times, number one New York Times bestseller.

I took such joy in calling my brothers and sisters who've all graduated from college and telling them that I was the one with the number one New York Times bestseller book.

And my sister's like, a book, when I got my book deal, I remember my sister going, a book about what?

And I was like, don't worry about it.

Don't worry about it.

It was a book about one night stands, but it started my book career, which was, has been really bountiful.

So I loved writing.

I love getting better at writing.

And I think to be a good writer, you really have to be a good reader and a good listener, you know?

Like, I think listening is one of the most important things that you can do when you're with someone new and to gain information.

And reading is listening.

You know, it's kind of all goes hand in hand.

So I'm being very thick right now.

Reading is, I love this, but do it again in different words.

Reading is you're taking in someone else's story.

Listening is the same thing.

So reading and listening aren't that far away.

I'm sorry.

Forgive me.

Reading.

What did you think I said?

Writing.

Sorry.

Reading.

Yeah.

Reading is listening, you know, like to focus.

You know, we've lost so much focus, you know, now with social media and all the nonsense and all the noise.

It's really hard to focus.

And I'm sure you've probably done this, but the other day I put my phone away for eight or nine hours and just read books.

You know, I had three books and I rotated between the three.

And the like, the level of sanity and joy that I felt,

you know, I was like, oh, this is what life is supposed to be like.

I I know I'm on holiday when I have two or three hardcover books.

Yeah, I love them.

That to me is holiday.

Yeah.

Did you ever read the book A History of Love by Nicholas Krauss?

Yes.

No.

Oh, no.

That's a great book for you and Mary to read together.

The History of Love or A History of Love.

The History of Love, I think it's called.

I should.

And there's no reason what I'm about to say would make me not want to read that book.

But I've discovered why I did so poorly in school.

I had to work so hard.

I'm going to scratch.

You're a concept.

No, no, no, no.

It's up

above the spine.

Mid.

Okay.

Thank you.

I have trouble.

I think it's a real learning issue thing where I can read, but I can't read to

retain information.

Oh, really?

Yep.

And I had that trouble as a kid in high school

writing papers and stuff.

I can read novels that thrill me, but don't ask me to tell you about the story too much later.

Everything that I need to know and retain, I want to hear.

I learn lines with my daughter teaching them to me.

So you're an auditory learner.

I am.

Right.

I understand that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I do better reading than listening.

Yeah.

But,

I mean,

You know, books, like if you listen to a book, do you listen to it on tape or do you read it?

I read it.

Oh, you do?

I will want to read it.

Yes.

But if it's like, read it, because you're going to have to write a paper, I'm out.

Right, right, right, right, right.

I mean, I'm out too for that.

I don't want to write a paper.

I don't want to be responsible.

If I'm going to write something, I'm going to write a book, not a paper.

That feels like you have to deliver it to somebody's expectations, you know?

And I'm really just trying to meet.

my audience's expectations.

It's not even my own anymore.

It's like I want to be there for my audience in a way that's going to support and kind of show them.

Like my most recent book was, it was about just becoming the kind of woman that I am and what I've done and how the times I've fallen off the, off the track and the people who've helped me get back on track, which have always been women.

You know, I tell a story in my most recent book about Jane Fonda kind of calling me out on my bad behavior when I was young.

This was like 15, 10, 15 years ago.

And she's a very close friend of mine.

I know you work with her too for the climate stuff and her PAC.

And

she took me aside once when I was, you know, badly behaved and just not in a good place in my life and just kind of like, you know,

desultory, listless, floating around, not really having any direction.

What was working me for me so early in my career had kind of stopped working for me.

And then I was just kind of stuck and I had become angry about

stuff from my childhood that I hadn't, you know, talked about with anyone professional.

And she kind of called me out.

She didn't kind of, she did.

Oh, she's very blunt.

And we had a talk and she was like, that's unacceptable.

Like you have so much talent.

Like you better go and figure out what's, what your plan is, you know, and how to be, not be a product of your environment, but make your environment a product of you.

And that was a very powerful thing to hear at a time in my life where I really needed to hear it.

But beyond that, it was such a measure of of sisterhood.

Like

that was a woman demonstrating to me what a real sister does.

And not just for another woman, but for anyone in your life to have the difficult conversation that is uncomfortable, but will yield such great results if the person is actually listening.

Yeah.

Jane Fonda made such a huge difference in my life.

I remember this is something she said to Mary.

We had them over for dinner, the book club actors.

And as she was leaving, she turned to Mary out on the street and said, Are we going to be friends?

And this is Mary, who, you know, knows her a little bit, but is smitten by the Jane fonda that we're all smitten by.

And she goes, yes.

And she said, all right, good.

We need to be intentional.

I'm not going to live forever.

And if you want to be friends, we need to be intentional.

And I love that because it's so true.

There are people that

that I say, I do love them and I appreciate them and I can't wait to see them again.

That's not enough.

Yeah.

You really need to show up.

You need to knock on their door and go, come.

Yeah, you need to water the garden.

Yeah, you really do.

Yeah, that's, that's true.

And especially like in this town, you know, everything can kind of be like transitory or, or transactional.

Like, you know, people float around and it's an, it's easy to sometimes retreat and not want to be social.

I certainly understand that as well.

You know, I'm not, while I can be very social, there are times where I'm like, I can absolutely not go out tonight.

I can't go out this whole week.

Like I need to recover or I need to, you know, ground myself or get grounded or whatever that means.

But it is nice to make the effort to spend time with the people that inspire you.

And that, you know, I've recently just spent like, I've seen Jane like once a week for the past six weeks, which is unusual for us, but I love it.

And then I was on my flight to New York and she was sitting two seats over from me.

I didn't even know until I got up and I saw her head from the back of her seat.

I'm like, I know that head.

I'm like, that's Jane's head.

And I was like, Jane.

And it's sure enough, it was Jane, you know, and I, but, but it feels good to spend, I know exactly what she means by being intentional with your friendship.

Yeah.

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At the University of Arizona, we believe that everyone is born with wonder.

That thing that says, I will not accept this world that is.

While it drives us to create what could be,

that world can't wait to see what you'll do.

Where will your wonder take you?

And what will it make you?

The University of Arizona.

Wonder makes you.

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I make jokes about myself and whatever, but it is true for me that I, one of the reasons why I'm not Woody, who is incredibly social and there's a party wherever he goes, a real good one.

Not, I mean, I wish I were that way, but I've always, the fellowship of men

to me has always been very, it's lovely, very relaxing, and beside the point.

My relationship and everything I get out of life comes from women and not women, big general women, but relationship.

Everything I need.

I'm not saying this is right, probably not, but everything I need, I have with Mary, literally.

Everything I need.

That's so nice.

I feel like if I, you know, I'm about to die, I will go, ha,

I did it.

I know what it's like to be

the best part about about being human, to feel loved and to be able to love, that kind of circular thing that happens.

Yeah.

It's just heaven on earth.

I wish I were more woody-like.

I could work on that, but that is my truth.

My goodies come from Mary.

And we found each other late in life.

Which is even better.

How old were you guys when you got together?

45.

She was 40.

We both knew that we could fuck up any relationship.

We literally said separately to ourselves, oh, I'm just not meant to be in a relationship.

You know, Mary said, I look like I should be good at a relationship.

Obviously, I'm not.

And I knew I could fuck up anything.

And then we found each other.

And what are your, like, what is your, if you had to pick your favorite thing about Mary, what would it be?

You have to pick one thing.

Wow,

you made me cry.

I would love to make you cry on your your own podcast.

Yeah.

Wow.

One thing is so hard.

God, her kindness, her willingness, her

fact that she witnesses all of me.

There's nothing she doesn't know about me.

She knows more about me than I do.

Kind.

She's incredibly kind, even though she's not always nice, according to her.

I will be always nice and charming and nice.

She will be that kind of deep kindness like Jane telling you, stop doing that.

That's deep kindness.

Yeah.

Charming is make you laugh and da-da-da-da.

Yeah.

She's so beautiful physically.

Inside, outside.

Yeah.

You're lucky that you guys found each other.

Oh, very, very.

Yeah.

I'm going to need a later in life relationship also.

I'm 50, so I'm going to have to start finding, I mean, I don't have to, but I could see myself meeting someone now that I'm

confident in my decision-making around choosing partners.

I trust myself a lot more than I did when I was young.

So I would make better decisions now.

So I'm like, oh, I wonder what will happen because somebody's going to come along.

You know, there's going to be

men.

So I'm very excited to see what the future holds.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, clearly you're magnificent.

I mean, you are.

And

so that ain't a problem.

That's up to you and what you, I guess, want.

Yeah.

I mean, it's, yeah.

But what you sound, I mean, what you're saying sounds, I mean, anyone who's listening to that and your description of all the things you appreciate about her is such, is so emblematic of the ideal.

And that is a truth.

That's your truth.

you're living proof that that exists and a lot of people think like oh it doesn't it does and it can exist with if there's not just one person you know that it can exist with for you you found your person but for a lot of people they think oh as soon as like you know or if i they don't understand that that that's possible what you're describing and it's possible i believe with more than one person that you meet in life oh i'm sure it must be yeah yeah

what i'm about bouncing for a minute, if you describe your faith, your inner little flame, the thing, what is that?

My faith.

Your faith, that

moral center of yourself.

Where does that come from?

Or is it describable?

I think I saw my dad.

My dad was a used car dealer.

So he was pretty shifty.

And I remember being like, I don't think so, buddy.

Like he would ask, I mean, he would sell cars that were in bad condition for way more than they were.

He would lie about all of the work that they had done on the car.

He'd be like, oh, this transmission's brand new.

And I'd be like, oh, God.

Like, I just saw him lie in real time.

And I just knew I could never, I wanted to be just the opposite of that.

So my moral compass is what, what am I going to do when no one's looking?

A, I always think about that.

When I'm alone, I'm like, okay, you know, if you want to like, who are you when you are alone?

And what are the choices that you make?

And I'm pretty proud of myself for not being for sale.

You know, I've had a lot of opportunities to

not sell my soul to the devil, you know, like what's happening with this Trump administration.

And, you know, for instance, with all these people that are kind of capitulating, like, not I'm not doing that.

You know, I'll leave before that happens, or, but I'm not ever going to do that.

I'm never going to say, yes, I believe in you.

I believe in this.

I'm not going to ever divorce my values in exchange for money.

I'm not going to, I'd rather wait tables again.

Do you you know what I mean?

Like, I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

And every time I have to make a difficult decision or a moral decision, I'm like reminded, I'm proud.

I'm like, I'm glad you just did that.

You didn't have to do that, you know, like to go out of my way when I know somebody's suffering that doesn't expect anything from me, you know, to actually do things that people don't know about and help people without getting a raising a flag to it, you know, to really just think of others.

So I, and, and to always kind of tell the truth, not to lie, you know.

Um, I try to really, I don't try, I do it, you know, to my own, you know, detriment at times.

I've been too honest and people are like, oh, you shouldn't have said that.

I'm like, but I'm not going to lie.

They're like, well, you can lie.

And I'm like, yeah, you can lie about little things.

You can't really lie about the world we're living in or relationships, you know, and you're doing a disservice to anyone when you're lying to them because you're, you know, you're duping them.

Yeah.

I'm going, yeah, because I, I do.

I sometimes

our biggest disagreements or fights or anger come out of me doing a convenient lie, you know.

Well, this is just going to upset you, so I'm not going to, you know, right.

I'm going to make sure it's, yeah, it's, which is all total bullshit.

But I do come around.

I do come around.

I have a delayed reaction, but yeah, truthfulness is

so relaxing.

Being truthful is relaxing.

Having a lie, having a half-truth,

is agonizingly exhausting.

Yeah,

it is really hard.

Yeah, it is exhausting.

I've experienced, I mean, I wasn't like this when I was younger in my 20s.

Like, if I wanted to get away from a guy or break up with a guy, I would make some story up instead of just saying, I'm not, I'm done with you.

And that would create a whole web of lies and then another web of lies.

And then you run into him on the pier with your new boyfriend two minutes after you told him you're going to Vermont for the weekend.

You know, like, so it's just one lie leads to more lies.

So it's just better not to lie.

And everything comes out.

Oh, everything comes out in the wash.

And it's like, so when you, when you see grown people lying, you're like, at some point, it's going to be revealed that this is not true.

I know.

I have so high.

Cause as I don't think it's just because we're actors, but if you're at all, have your headlights on, seeing politicians or people lie is so obvious.

Yeah.

It's so, and it's for what?

Like you go into politics thinking you're going to help people and then immediately you're bought by these corporations or, you know, the NRA or whatever.

And like, and then you just become a different person.

Like, how do you remain true to who you are while also getting involved in that?

You know, how do you be successful in life while also remaining true to the core values of who you are?

And do you have values also?

Like, is a question people should ask.

What are your values?

And also be aware that we're all slightly hypocritical.

I remember ranting and railing about something

early on when I was in the brick throwing stages of activism where it felt good to

be simplistic and go

bad person, bad person.

Somebody said, you do know that NBC, this is during the height of cheers, is owned by General Electric.

And you know some of the stuff they make.

You know, it's so hard to be spic and span nowadays because something you're doing

is going to offend somebody.

It's going to have a bad impact downstream.

It just is.

So anyway, you do the best you can.

Well, I mean, some people are.

Am I being apologetic for not being clean as a whistle?

I do think,

I mean,

I'm getting paid a lot of money to act nowadays by corporations.

And as soon as you're into a corporate world, aren't you into

it?

And then you're like representing that corporate world.

Some would argue and some would argue no.

But

yeah, it's important to do a value check, I think, with,

you know, with yourself.

One more silly question or many more.

Magic wand, 10 years from now, what would you be doing?

I would love to be living in Mallorca.

Writing books from Mallorca.

Yeah, I guess so.

I guess I'll probably at some point have an urge to write another book.

I've written seven.

So I'm kind of, you know, and every time I have one come out, I had one come out this year.

I have to take at least two or three years off because it's such an undertaking.

You've written a book, so you understand.

Have you written more than one book?

No, but let's be clear.

I wrote a book with someone who was a brilliant writer.

And the information in it came from Oceania.

It was the state of the oceans.

It's a brilliant book.

And what made me chuckle when you said number one bestseller at New York Times,

the book, Oceana, was number one bestseller.

Oh.

For, I'm not sure if it was minutes, hours, days, maybe an afternoon, something.

But if you are ever, for any amount of time,

at number one spot, you are a number one, you know,

New York Times bestseller.

Yes.

Yeah.

So, Chelsea, how long were you on the number one

not not very long?

I mean all of my books yeah weeks.

Oh, that's the real deal.

Weeks.

That's the real deal.

Yeah.

All of my books have been number one on the New York Times list.

Mine was an afternoon.

The afternoon, yeah.

It was the siesta.

It was the siesta version.

But that's the great thing because you're on the list for at least a week.

I mean, it lasts a week.

So you are number one New York Times bestseller.

So that's okay.

I will plug it.

If you're looking for casual reading, summer reading, do not get it.

If you're a high school teacher, grab a bunch of them.

Yeah, for sure.

It's an amazing educational tool.

Yeah.

That should sell a lot.

Yeah, for sure.

There's going to be a huge spike.

You get these little things from your publishers, you know, I don't know, bi-weekly, bi-monthly or something saying,

nope, nope, you haven't made up your, you know, you're guaranteed.

Oh, right.

I have yet to see a dime for that in this like 15 years.

Sounds like a huge success.

Huge success.

Well, that's good, though, that you wrote a book about the ocean.

I mean, who we need more books about the ocean.

Tell me something, anything.

I'm just enjoying talking to you.

What do I can I tell you?

I woke up this morning and I was in a state, just for context for your listeners.

This is the day after Jimmy Kimmel was taken off the air.

So I woke up today and I was like, oh, God, this world, like, what are we going to do?

You know, and what am I going to do specifically?

Instead of just bitching, right?

And I got out my phone and I have this gratitude journal in my phone.

And I'm like, there's absolutely nothing to be grateful for.

And I was like, that's exactly when you have to be grateful is when you feel like there's nothing to be grateful for.

It's like when you read books about people, you know,

in bad situations who are able to find the light and to find light in darkness, you know?

So I got out my gratitude journal and it was like, say,

you know, tell three things that would make today great.

And I was like, I have, you know,

I had a shoot this morning.

I'm like, let me just have a great time, be present.

And then I have a podcast with Ted Danson.

Have a great time, be present.

And then I have something else later tonight.

I was like, just have a great time and be present.

And I think the reminder, I bring that up to tell you that because of, I just think the value of presence is so important right now, you know, to really be present when you're in someone's audience or company, to really be there.

And it's like what I was saying about listening and reading.

I think that there are just such values to remain, you know, like to make sure that we're connecting with each other.

There seems to be such a loss of like humanity.

And so I think it's so important to remember to like be mindful about our interactions with others and to try to spread like double down on love and kindness, you know, in any way that we can, if it's with someone you do know or someone you don't know.

But, you know, I had to really dig for those three moments of like, I had to get into the future for my

great gratitude instead of thinking about what I was grateful for.

I'm like, okay, I'm going to be grateful for these three things.

So I guess, I mean,

I guess the point of all of that is just to say, it's great to be present with you.

And, you know, I'm appreciative of being here and sitting with you.

Yeah, you're really quite wonderful.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

And I'm going to fix your back.

My back's fine.

Thank you.

I'm going to fix his cocksick.

That was a treat for me, Chelsea Handler.

Thank you.

Be sure to catch Chelsea in a city near you on her high and mighty tour and listen to Dear Chelsea, wherever you find your podcasts.

That's all for our show this week.

Special thanks to our friends at Team Coco.

Cocoa.

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Where everybody knows your name.

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Our executive producers are Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and myself.

Sarah Federovich is our supervising producer.

Engineering Remixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez.

Research by Alyssa Grahl.

Talent Booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista.

Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Gen, Mary Steenbergen, and John Osborne.

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