Kathryn Hahn

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Pancake makeup.

No, you're too young for pancake.

Oh, no, I didn't.

Really?

You should have seen my old age makeup.

It was fantastic.

Welcome back to Where Everybody Knows Your Name.

Boy, everyone in the office this morning is very excited for our guest, Catherine Hahn.

You know her from WandaVision, Agatha All Along, Mrs.

Fletcher, Stepbrothers, and so many more amazing roles.

Catherine currently plays Maya Mason in the critically acclaimed series The Studio, which earned her an Emmy nomination for Outstanding Supporting Actress in a Comedy Series.

The first season of The Studio is streaming now on Apple TV.

Here she is, Catherine Hahn.

I hate,

even though I can be full of pretense all the time, in a podcast, I just can't bear it.

Okay.

So, full disclosure,

no, I was looking for the joke.

I was looking for the joke.

Sorry, that's what happens to me nowadays.

Like, schoolgirl in me was like, okay, what am I?

I'm going to screw it up.

Mary will watch my face go blank.

And first, she's worried, then it goes, oh, no, he's looking for a joke.

All right.

This will take a while.

It's a strange interlude.

I have a lot of those.

I saw the studio.

Oh,

magnificent.

You hit me, and we'll talk about stepbrothers.

I was just knocked out by stepbrothers.

Oh, God.

I'm an amazing wife in that film.

Yeah.

Forget it.

Well, let's just start there.

Yeah.

The scene with John C.

Riley as you come out the door and you confess your

was just knocked me out.

Okay.

So funny.

So sexy.

So like a million miles an hour bold.

I was just holding on by the seat of my pants.

I was terrified, terrified, terrified.

Because of Adam McCay.

Yes.

Will

John C.

Riley?

Like, I had never really done, I had a very bit part in Anchorman, but I certainly didn't come up in the comedy world.

Like, I never did sketch.

I never

did

imprompt classes.

I just, I was like a, you know, a theater actor.

And then I was always kind of the class clown, I guess, but I never,

that was, I never knew, I never thought that I needed, I never wanted to audition for SNL.

Like that just wasn't my

thing.

Like, that just didn't, like, I guess, like, move me.

But, um, I really wanted to do like non-paying off, off, off, off, off, off Broadway plays.

And you didn't look at you now.

Oh, you did.

Oh, yes, I did.

Yes, yes, yes.

Right, for sure.

But a lot of student rooms.

Adam McKay was kind of the epitome.

If I understand, yeah.

First off, I hate going to visit sets that I'm not part of.

It's fun.

Yes.

I love to see my wife marry.

Yes.

But truthfully, if you don't have a job on a set, it's

mostly kind of boring.

Yes.

And you feel a little like,

yeah.

But not

stepbrothers.

They had sofas pulled around Video Village so people could come and sit for two hours

and watch it because.

You do the text as written.

Yes.

And maybe in the morning.

And then you would come back and he would shout things over a microphone for you to say.

Incredible, incredible things.

Yeah.

So you do improvise.

Well, I can improvise Ted if it's like a character that I know, like that, if I know the givens, if I'm like kind of, you know, I just couldn't be like, oh, my glasses.

Yeah.

Nailed it.

You did.

That was very good.

You sure?

I want to continue with the scene.

But I, yeah, I definitely, it's only if, if I have like, if I'm like feel secure enough and who I'm playing.

otherwise it is panic attack like i it's a very difficult to just

there's such incredible improvisers that can just like relax and just like let it completely flow through them and it's such a beautiful flow state to watch that like feral is like oh

like it just you just feel like you're watching something like

sacred like you just cannot believe how easy it just flows out yeah um

so yeah that was a huge learning experience for me to be able to

have the allowance to go there and like have so much

like safety with John that we just, that scene was just like rolled like so much.

The kiss was so funny.

Just the kiss alone was hysterical.

It was almost never quite consummated.

The lips were just kind of all over

way too long.

Yeah.

That was, I do remember like ending that take.

I think that was like a far into it too.

Like I think we had done a bunch of different versions, and McKay would guide us down the most trippy avenues.

Like, we were in that bathroom scene, and there was a moment we were like, really,

like, in gross detail, planning Adam Scott's

character's death, like so graphic, like, and it went on for so long.

And I love that we were able to do that.

I mean, it was just, it was a blast.

Like, by the time I got over my like, oof, but you know, I'll say Mary was awesome on that set because, you know, she didn't come from, as far as I know, like that kind of a world.

And so the fact that she was so comfortable and so game and so supportive and just so psyched to be there and see what was made.

I mean,

it was very comforting to be in scenes with her.

Yeah.

Because she didn't push anything.

Love, by the way.

Oh, please send her my love back.

Yeah.

One of the best humans.

Yeah.

She and Richard, Jenkins.

Yes.

After the first day and a half of watching John and Will improvise, they'd looked at each other and they're going,

what are we doing here?

And then they, but then they realized, oh, wait a minute, we are here to make it believable.

That believable, yeah.

They had to kind of allow the audience into this insanity.

Yes.

They were like the anchors for sure.

It allowed it.

Like Mary was so grounding, like that, you couldn't have done it without that, like without her.

I want her to be my mom.

Like, she was so,

my kid just went to college, like, last weekend.

So I'm

a disaster artist.

But

yeah, anyway, that was a really thinking about her and her like parenthood.

And like, she must have just been an incredible parent herself.

I can only imagine.

She was.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And a great grandmother.

Oh, I'm excited for that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, everybody, whenever you say how excited you are about your grandchildren, people go, didn't you love your children?

Yes.

With all my heart.

Yes.

But this is different.

No, it's different.

It's different.

I got some time to wait for that, but I'm very excited for it.

Where is your son going to school?

Can you say it without embarrassing?

I think he would be so he's on East Coast.

Okay.

Just dropped him off.

Yeah.

That'll do.

But he certainly can't see any of my movies from that particular chapter.

He would be

devastatingly embarrassed.

Embarrassed, but not inappropriate.

It's not inappropriate for him to see that kind of movie.

Just

he can see that movie.

I'm sure he's seen far worse, but he just the thought of his mom in a movie like that or some of the other things I've done is understandably

a nightmare.

So I wouldn't want that either.

That would not be fun.

But the first time I showed it to them, we, my husband and I fast-forwarded so much of it

that I think they saw a 17-minute movie.

Yeah, that's how my mother watched Body Heat.

Oh, I'm sure.

She literally had her hand because I wasn't with her, but people told me she had her hand in front of her eyes.

No, I'm sure.

Oh, exactly.

Mary did a film, Melvin and Howard.

Thank you, Dad.

Melvin and Howard.

And she won the Academy Award for that.

God damn, Catherine.

Yeah.

Okay, amazing.

And

she has a scene because she's a dancer in this bar where she is buck naked, full funnel.

Yeah.

Buck naked.

And

it's brilliant and it's wonderful.

I just got a whole mess of people to go rent this now.

But

me.

Charlie, her son,

when

15, maybe,

and he and his buddies are just Friday night bored, flipping around.

He goes out to get a sandwich and comes back into the room.

His friend

innocently

landed on that scene.

Oh, gosh.

But he clicked on it and Charlie walked back in and just reamed him.

He was so angry.

That's my mom.

What are you doing?

I've told this, but there he was said there was definitely a party early fresh, like early high school years where he walked in.

There's a bunch of people around the TV watching it, and he just walked out.

Like, he was like, this is not the party for me.

Yeah.

No.

But I mean, there's a bunch of stuff, you know, whatever.

It's, it's, he's been able to really healthily separate

from

my job, like completely.

Like, we love an Airbnb.

We love like the four of us on a road trip.

It's like

separate or just bored.

I'm sure kids are bored.

Yeah, I think bored.

The only way we get kids back then

come was, well, actually, you know, we're working with so-and-so.

Oh, my God.

So-and-so.

Yeah.

Otherwise.

Otherwise, forget it.

Yeah.

No, my daughter loved craft service and she loves a trailer.

Like.

Could hang out in a trailer, like loves it.

Like turning on the TV and the fake fire.

And like, she just is like all spread out, does her homework.

You get a fireplace in your trunk?

A real live burning wood fireplace.

Did you transfer psyched.

Did you, did you, did your husband and did you all pack up and go to whatever location?

Yes, we did for the, like manically, I did it for the first until they were kind of ensconced in school.

And it was like, you know, would be selfish of us.

Yeah, exactly.

But yeah, I, it was really difficult for me not to be there every night.

And, you know, I'm sure Mary, every, it's a, it's horrible being a mother and an actor.

It is.

Any, yeah, I mean, yes, any working mom, I'd say the same thing.

It's just like any, anyone that feels like, I mean, that, you know, that I cried when his umbilical cord fell off.

So it was like a really difficult thing to be like, know that he was, you know, and then when I started working across the country and like he got his driver's license, I was in Atlanta and I was like, I can't do the Life 360 because I don't want to be checking how fast he's going.

And, um, but you know, it was either my husband would come with them or you know someone a helper of like a you know a friend of a friend or you're always in the wrong place with a mother yeah who loves their job yeah yeah it's always yeah because i love it like but ted it was so interesting this last year the last year that my son was i love the way you say ted as a very quick aside in the middle of your point sounds very political professional i feel like i've heard it somewhere before like don't politicians do that to be like i'm connecting with you that's what i feel like it's happening well you do like i am i'm pulling an obama i feel like i was like ted like it's very it really is sorry i interrupted oh but that was me improvising no but that's

it's so true it's a real politician thing ted let me tell you something

and i'm listening okay and i believe

keeping connected i interrupted you away from your point i can't remember what it was i really can't welcome to my world i know let's

move on because I can't remember anything.

Was it about?

Come on.

We can do this.

Oh, yes, I know it.

My last, my

last, my last,

my last year as a mother at home with my son, his senior year, happened to be the year that I just was like, I'm not working.

And ironically, it was the year that he was not home at all.

Like he just wanted nothing to do with us.

So I was happy to be just in evidence.

You know what I mean?

Like just be there when he got home or whatever, hang out.

But it was like, the irony was pretty, it was like, you know, it was so bittersweet.

And just, you know, it's the year of lasts, I felt like it was like, but to me, it was like last president's day.

Like it was like every, the single thing that went by and trying to keep it from him.

Like it's not, you know, he doesn't need to take any of that on.

We're excited for him.

Like all I want to do is cheerlead this incredible next chapter of him.

I'm so proud of him.

And it's a big, it's a big one for all of us, though.

I didn't quite realize,

Ted.

I'm going to do that when any feeling comes.

Okay, good.

I'm so excited.

I'm so cold.

Whenever feeling comes, I'll just be like, Ted.

See, I forgot again.

By the way, last time you left, you had a little snort at the end, and it was really cool.

Is it cool?

Yeah.

She's 52.

It was cool, maybe back in the day.

Very cool.

Okay.

Okay.

And I'm 77.

My God, we're doing freaking great.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Every day.

Yeah, we're doing freaking great.

But for God, let's move on.

I listened to you and Dak Shepard.

Oh, yeah.

And you guys were so fast that I literally had to put it on, you know, slow motion so I could go.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

I think there's a lot of caffeine.

Yes.

Yeah.

There was a lot of caffeine.

Not a lot of like sticking to something.

We kept like barreling through.

Definitely, for sure.

I'd love that person.

Can I say private life?

Private lives?

Private life.

Private life.

So good.

That's what

I love when people who are so intrinsically funny like you.

And

my image of you is like a downhill mogul racer.

You going

to pull off what you do, you just have to go fuck it and stick your you know

ski over the tips of your skis and

you know and it's just so remarkable that so quick so nimble but then when you do something like private life it's like the threat of how funny you are

and you're not being funny in those moments i think this makes it so rich i loved that i love that movie yeah

Paul is pretty remarkable.

Paul is remarkable.

And like our, I just felt instantly like we were

weirdly, it just felt very fraternal, like very from the beginning.

It just felt like we've just been, we have just been

family for years.

And Tamara Jenkins, who wrote and directed it, is like, I mean, this is only her third film.

And the,

she only will say

something when she needs to say it.

And this was so personal to her.

While directing, you mean?

While writing it.

So like in terms of in terms of yeah no in terms of writing something she'll only write it if like that is something that needs to be said by her so the way that she

directed this was like i when i saw for the first time it was like every

little pixel on the screen was so investigated by her like she took such care of of

of every single detail.

Like I remember there was like we were, we were like pulling espresso and she wanted to get the sound

so clearly so that the audience could maybe even like smell it if they wanted to.

She,

it was, um, yeah, that was one of the, my favorite experiences.

And that part is,

um,

uh, both of their parts was just so heartbreaking.

It's like achy because it was, like you said, it wasn't like, didn't tip over.

And it was very important for her not to tip to, you know, any sort of like, you know, like weepy modeling or whatever like we wanted to keep it in this like which is my favorite tone like me too isn't it the best yeah what do you love about it

like what i i for me it's like i

this is not what you're saying but i did a half hour so long that is

three to four jokes a page kind of is the stereotype incredible but to me it scares the shit out of me now because

it's it's like doing a music.

It's music.

There's a beat.

Yes.

And you don't have the ability to be indulgent in any way because you've got to keep the beat.

And so when I do something,

bored to death was that way for me, where it was funny.

Mike Shur is that way for me.

Mike Shore writes that kind of stuff.

He's so brilliant.

If you can be reflecting, not just funny, but reflecting human condition

that has a little hope in it.

And

that to me is my favorite thing.

And I feel like I've gotten to the age now.

I found Mike Shore.

I mean, you know him.

Oh my gosh.

And I found him and I could work them forever because I feel like that's what I'm supposed to be doing.

Including this, you know, loving on people and saying, wow,

thank you for being so creative is kind of my job now.

I mean, and curiosity.

That's just what I really, really appreciate that.

That's in your work, by the way.

You are always curious.

Pretty cool.

I mean, I'm sure you would say the same thing.

It's so

unconscious, like a show like the studio, you feel like it's like you're playing us.

You have a specific note in that band, like, you know, in that like musical, like you've got, like, for it to, like you said, like for the,

for it to flow.

You have to like hit a very specific sound.

Otherwise, it just, it doesn't feel as, especially with a good writing, like, you know, you have with Mike and these guys, Seth and Evan and this writing staff is like, what?

A, you don't need to ever kind of go outside of it.

B, it would be embarrassing if you did because they'd have to start it all over from the beginning.

You had your, you know, dumb improv slotted in there.

Our camera operator was like certainly one of the cast because he knew exactly where to go.

And that was the hardest.

He was editing as we were doing it.

So what's different than Stepbrothers, where it's like, you know,

still and you're able to just kind of throw out alts in the middle of a scene that's also very technical because you're not like constantly connected with the person that you're doing the scene with.

So all of it's so freaking fine.

It's more of an editor's movie.

Yes.

In that way.

For sure.

And private life felt that way also,

but

and she was like, you know, same note.

It was like, it was definitely like faster so that we wouldn't like sink, you know, at all.

And that, that was a great challenge because very easy to sink.

And faster usually is better.

Turns out if you're

listening to my, listen to my podcast with Dax.

Yes.

There's a lot of nicotine in that, too.

I feel like maybe there.

Yes.

A lot of speed of natural.

All of a sudden, I was like, well,

it was so fast that the button on my pants kept on popping.

I was like,

like we couldn't, it was just nuts so fast.

I sat with him and Kristen Bell up in Alaska and John Chris.

Goddess.

Oh, Goddess.

John, who's also the fastest brain.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, intimidating.

100%.

Yes.

Very intimidating.

And a sweetie.

Yes.

Yeah.

Her like compass is just due north.

Yep.

You know, like it's always, it's like really, really inspirational.

About

life, about contributions, about charity, about giving back, about

work.

Yeah.

Yeah.

God help you

if you kept fucking up during the good place or I was a little lazy about learning my lines that day.

She adored me.

Oh, yeah, clearly.

And she demonstratively adores me.

And if I started to fuck up, she'd nail me with a look.

And it was like, if you keep me from my dinner with my children, I don't care who

I will rip you a new one.

Good for her.

I mean, that's terrifying.

Yeah.

That was like, yeah, that's she, what we did, because we did bad moms, all the bad mom stuff.

And she was a very young mom.

Like, that's right.

She was very, very young.

So was Mila.

My kids were a little bit older.

We stayed in a legitimately haunted house in New Orleans while we were shooting, which was so fun.

But it was such a pleasure watching getting in a triangle with the two of them.

It really, like, you sometimes, you know, you never know.

And it was like, it just was like.

Yeah, they're all, they're all, you all, you all, all three of you are very cool ladies.

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Cleveland Heights.

Yes.

Ohio.

Ohio.

Is that part of Cleveland?

Forgive my ignorance.

Is it Cleveland Heights?

It's part of Cleveland.

Cleveland Heights.

The Heights usually means rich.

You're right.

The Heights in this case, I would say,

was minimal.

And the west side was definitely considered the more wealthy side.

Gotcha.

Huge lawns.

You know what I mean?

Like a lot of

sprinklers.

I remember the trick-or-treating over there was much better than the trick-or-treating in a neighborhood.

But it was like, you know, one of those neighborhoods where

I, you know, we walked to school to St.

Anne's, like over on Christmas, they had the little like votaries like lining the street to go to, you know, mass.

Like trick-or-treating was so rad.

So yeah, it was a real.

a sweet, sweet neighborhood for sure.

Just a parentheses, because I want to keep going on this, but if I had a little video of that six, seven, eight-year-old, would I go, yep, yep, that's Catherine Hawn.

Yes, yes.

That was, you were there.

She was there, but maybe she was very shy,

but she definitely had a uniform on that her mom got thinking that she would grow seven dress sizes by the time that she graduated.

So one could pull it off from the top, which was fun.

I had to wear shorts.

Yeah.

I had

you had to wear saddle shoes.

This is Catholic school now?

Yes, yes.

Which was

from kindergarten to high school.

Oh, wow.

Same one?

No.

No.

It went from co-ed elementary to the single sex

high school.

Which explains a lot, Catherine.

But go on, because I went to a single, single-sex Episcopal school in Connecticut.

Please.

Yeah.

Anyway.

Okay.

Yes.

But my, my, tricky.

I had saddle shoes that looked like Bozo the Clown.

Like they were so big on me.

Again, because I think she thought I was going to go from a six to like an 11 and a half.

So, yes, that was me.

A lot of like, yeah, that was a, you know, messy, messy Kathy for sure.

But you already, I read, knew

something, something here with entertaining or acting or performing.

What was that?

Well,

you know, I was the oldest.

I have two brothers in at St.

Anne's.

They had like, you know, stuff to do with mass.

So I, oh, my shirt's not backwards.

Anyway, detail.

Wow.

Please, anyway, tangents.

It's fine.

It's very fetching.

Probably a smidge.

On the front.

Unexpected.

Okay.

I thought I was like, oh, is she getting a rash?

Okay, I'm glad to know.

Catholic school.

Yeah.

So my parents, I think, you know,

if you had had that old uniform, you could just turn it around.

I could and no one

know.

That's why I'm real good at a quick change.

I really know how to do it.

But

yeah, Catholic school, we kind of, we went there because it was the cheapest private education.

And Catholic school was like a,

you know, it's just our families, you know, just what it was for generations.

And

my,

I loved going to a, I really did like kind of going to

high school, a single sex high school, because their advantages.

Well, especially for a young woman human to be able to like raise her hand and it was actually cool to be smart

instead of trying to like hide yourself with the boys around.

Yeah.

And I liked a uniform because it kind of, there was an equality.

Like I didn't have to kind of keep up with everybody.

And

so I actually kind of

didn't mind it.

I had some really, I had a couple of really radical nuns that were incredibly intellectual that I had deep empathy for because of probably the reasons that they became nuns at a time where there were very little options, but very intellectual.

Did you pick that up, intuit it, or did I put it up?

Yeah.

So it may or may not be true.

But that's kind of was my feeling.

They were very

moving to me.

And also into the theater.

And so to get back to like what we had been talking about, like I

felt that I could almost

be more myself or take or like tell the truth easier when I was saying someone else's lines.

It felt safe to me to be

on stage.

It felt like I had like an autonomy over like the arc.

Like as soon as it started, that was mine and the people I were like working with.

And it felt so much better than kind of like, you know, hunching my way through grade school and being afraid to raise my hand then.

And I felt an instant kind of gratification from it.

I was a, I did something at St.

Anne's,

Salty the Psalm book, okay, with a PS.

And then I went right to the Cleveland Playhouse, which was like our big deal, by the way.

Cleveland Playhouse is one of the the important theaters

regional theaters.

Yeah.

Well, Newman, a lot of human beings.

But of course, it's one of those that had to lose their space.

Funding is being,

you know, stripped away.

Let's talk about that in a little, a little while.

Yeah.

So, I mean, they're not even where they had been, but I grew up in these little black box theaters, like with those ghost lamps and like watching these regional theater actors that would just do a gazillion different plays.

Like, and they all played different parts in it.

And I was I was literally they had they had literally something called a curtain puller and I was actually I was not able to do that by the time they got there but we were definitely invested

um you know the where we did classes was an old um department store like it just folded and so like I remember being dropped off on Saturday mornings

seeing that there was like a huge dark department store with like like like dummies and like old racks and it was so terrifying and we would go like explore.

And then there was a,

what are those machines called where you could like put quarters in and get stuff?

Like an automatic kind of thing.

Yeah, but it was like a small thing.

Oh, God, you guys know.

A slot machine.

I think it's Vegas.

No, but you can get things.

It would be like this.

You'd put like C5 and then it would be like

Snickers bars.

Yeah.

Vending machine.

Thank you.

So I would get a big old Snickers and a Pepsi and just like hang out with the actors.

And it was like magic.

Magic.

I never wanted to do anything else.

It was like, Ted,

Ted, I got a Ted.

Ted and a snort.

Let me.

It was like I wasn't,

it was like I didn't make a decision.

I'm sure I don't, I wonder, like, I feel like a lot of actors would see this.

It was like, I didn't, it was just all of a sudden, that's who I was.

Like there was no,

I didn't know what it would look like.

I certainly didn't know what it, how it would happen, but I just was, ah, that was it.

That was just, I had the same thing.

It really is running away

to the circus.

It's running to the circus.

It feels like reckless and safe, and it's like chosen family.

And

I just loved, loved the feeling like of being backstage and all having your Bob Mackey makeup or whatever that like thick stuff was.

And

you know what I mean?

Pancake.

No, you're too young for pancakes.

Oh, no, I didn't.

You should have seen my old age makeup.

It was

fantastic.

Although I switched the highlight and the low light, so it was like a skeleton.

I look like Skeletor.

It's so funny.

I used to practice old age work.

Now I'm going, fuck.

See, I go around, I go around pretending that

what if you just wore pancake old age makeup.

That's kind of how I feel.

It's so funny.

funny.

I feel like I'm going along with the,

you know,

even when I say I'm 77, it's like I'm going along with this, not really.

Sure.

It's false humility.

Sure.

And then I look

at myself on screen and it's like, oh, fuck.

I'm 77.

I cannot, I've never been able to watch a monitor.

Like, I can't do it.

I can watch the thing,

but I can, everyone, every time it's like, oh, I can't, I can't, because because i just immediately know i'll be thinking about the wrong thing you'll be judging i judge myself me too and i'm not i'm holding on to myself i am i'm talking brando a little bit whatever sure i'm i love it i'm joyful and yes wonderful me too like if someone needs to move or i know move me or tell me like something technical i'm great but it goes away and all of a sudden there is like you're with the person you're like

in the best place ever like you're you know the i mean i that's my favorite it's like when they say action it's like right before action is that little like,

like, moment.

It's my, my favorite.

And then all of a sudden, there's like, uh,

and I hate that feeling.

I hate that feeling with lines, too.

So any scars from Catholic schools?

I didn't have scars from the, from the Episcopal.

Yeah, you didn't?

No, no, it was pretty.

It's a watered down.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Did you figure uniforms?

Uh, in that it was

khakis or something and a sport coat and tie

every day.

Okay.

Chapel every morning, 6.30 to 7.

Church, Sunday, you know, full high mass, incense,

the whole deal.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That smell I miss.

Yeah, at that point.

Isn't it funny how smells take you instantly back?

Instantly.

Instantly I smell it and I'm waiting in line to go into the confessional.

And we didn't do that.

You didn't do that.

This was like us waiting.

It was like you hear everything.

there's like right there it was like all was kind of like ah i don't know i remember sitting there i don't know i bless my god there i said you know five times in the last like did you make stuff up that you knew was just barely bad but okay

yeah i mean i didn't have like that much bad stuff until like high school yeah but and then we didn't have to do it but in elementary school it was like i don't know i mean i don't know like get me out of here It was just so hot and annoying.

We had to be quiet.

And you could kind of see them through the grate.

And I was like, I just talked to you.

Like, there's no reason to have like this fake, like, you know, mesh thing between us.

Cause like, hello, father.

You know, all of these are none of my business questions.

Are your kids?

Have they been exposed to

my husband is Jewish.

And so they both were bar and bot mitzvah.

I, I kind of like, but we're kind of, um, uh, we're kind of like both just open to

what they are, uh, what grabs them.

And so like, they really, it was a very progressive bar and but mitzvah, and um, but they took a lot out of it.

There was definitely a service aspect that they had to complete by the end.

And, and that is kind of, I loved it as a rite of passage for them

into teenagehood that like their family was able to come.

We did it in our living room.

Like it was, um, that was pretty great.

But, and we belong to a pretty, you know, radical

temple that doesn't actually have like a, like a space.

It kind of like borrows spaces.

Like, so it'll be at an Episcopalian church, actually, or it'll be like at a rec center.

And it doesn't, I don't have to go, we don't go all the time, but it's always nourishing when I go.

That's one thing I think Mary and I maybe both have the same minor regret because our kids are magnificent.

I hear you.

I hear you.

Is that we didn't expose them.

I was to church or a

faith or a, I mean, they get faith is different than church, I think.

Yes.

Anyway.

yeah, I feel like spirituality is like the next

frontier,

certainly for myself.

Like, I'm like, okay, now it's about

spirituality.

It kind of had been like racy, racy, racy for a while.

Yeah.

And now it feels like, especially like this next chapter after a kid's going.

And I similarly have like a little regret that we didn't have like a, either like a Sunday roast or like a Shabbat dinner every week, like something like community.

Community that was like, no matter what's going on, like you have to show up.

I know.

And like,

I, I really, that's something I, I definitely do regret.

But they're both like my son more than my daughter, but she's, they're both, no, I'm going to say my daughter too.

They're both very,

it's like curious people, spiritual people.

So even though we don't have like a,

you know, a regular, like no one would say they're Catholic or they're Jewish.

I love that they're exposed to both and all, like, all, all of it.

Like, you know, they went to church when we would go home to Cleveland and like we'd go to like the Cleveland, the Christmas Eve Mass, which is always so much.

I do that with my mom because it meant so much to her.

It meant so much.

Yeah.

Means of time.

So it meant the same to me, but I, on my own, I didn't pretty much.

After high school.

But do you ever go when you travel and you see a church or like a, yeah, but only to say hi to mom.

Oh, gosh.

That's that's so clearly.

I remember sitting there, my father.

What is it?

I don't know even how many, sorry, 15 to 20 years ago, my mom and my father, I think, passed away.

But my dad is forever present.

Or we're going to a different conversation until

recently.

Can we go there?

You're the most amazing actor.

No, I want to go to where you're talking about.

And because you are, you're you're spectacular, and I love watching you.

Oh, Ted.

This is.

But I also loved reading the other stuff that you were talking about, how you manage your dreams.

You know, you did.

You said that sometimes in Lee's, sorry, forgive me.

I think I have a quote from you that said that I like going into my dreams and giving my dreams a purpose.

Oh, yeah, I do.

I really do.

Yeah.

Especially if like sleep is elusive.

If I ask a question or if like there's something wiggly about a part,

something

happens, happens you know whatever whatever dream no matter what it is

you can't help but have something something is going to connect you don't have to write it down you have to do anything but there's something something connects in it and if you're purposeful about it it does yeah yeah exactly exactly yeah it helps with sleep there's there's this wonderful i don't know what tribe in what continent that when their kids would wake up with a nightmare this would be someplace in africa i can't remember where it was but the kid was crying because a lion was chasing him and was about to eat him.

And they comforted him and said, okay, so tomorrow night, when you have this dream, you turn around to that lion and you tell that lion, you know, and empowers the child within the dream to go, nope.

And that, that to me is like life.

It is.

It's not like, oh, sweet dream thing for a little kid.

It's about you are,

you do manifest your life.

You are not a victim.

You are your thoughts.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was reading this.

Well,

two things.

My friend, who, I mean, we all know people that lost everything in these fires.

And my friend did in Altadina.

And she said when she would first fall asleep after it, she would go into her home.

Oh, wow.

You know, like, of course, like that was just where she was.

Like, she would just be walking around her house.

And at a certain point.

To your point, she would have to put up a do not enter sign on her front door.

Like she had to like think of that so that she would not go inside because otherwise she was just kept remembering and remembering and remembering she couldn't sleep at all.

And so I just, that's so moving to me that she was able to

manifest

like a protection, a protection shield for herself.

But I'm so with you.

I mean, I loved, I just read, I mean, it's going to sound like, but I just read this book called.

It's Pema Shadron.

Have you read How We Live is How We Die?

No.

Oh.

And I love the title.

It's basically how we approach change,

how we, every single like day that we live is like, and how we are not our thoughts, and how like much suffering we, you know, all that.

But it's an incredible, incredible,

very,

it's anyway, it's one of those books that you're like, I had to read it again a few times because it is so

true, just makes so much sense.

Like, of course.

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I used to love, I would explore different spiritual thoughts or philosophies or whatever throughout my life and not like as a

student, but as a curious person.

And I remember when my mother was passing away,

I would take the night shift because my sister needed her sleep and she'd do the day sleep.

And this was after my mom had stopped really being there.

You know,

there were two weeks.

First week was like just glorious.

We just all celebrated her life together with her.

And then the last two or three days, she wasn't really present, but her body was still.

And I remember thinking, all of my spiritual, philosophical thoughts

went flying out the window.

And I was left with,

I don't know.

yeah she might

or she's about to

but I have no idea and it simplified my life my life became

try to be in the moment and do the right thing and you do know yes what the right thing is yes we do you know yes and it simplified my life and uh and stay curious now at 77 because you are you are bumping into a lot of stuff yeah that could be fearful or uncomfortable or challenging or whatever.

Stay curious.

I remember hearing, sorry, I'm rambling.

I remember somebody, Jeff Bridges had cancer a while ago, and I think it's okay to say, because he's talked about it.

But I asked his brother, oh, how's Jeff?

And he said, well, he's Jeff.

He goes, wow.

What is this going to be like?

Oh, I'm so curious

to discover what this cancer is going to be like.

Look at me.

And that attitude of staying curious.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's pretty much, I think,

fascinating.

That's definitely like this seems like the superpower is like, also just keeps a point outside yourself.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

It just doesn't just keep, you keep like

getting outside oneself.

Like, that's what I'm realizing the older I get.

It's like, okay, just

be outside my, like find a point over there, whatever it means.

And just like,

put my foot which is what good acting is too by the way you know really pay attention to your partner yeah no it's true listening listening listening with every single like

part of you for sure how do you guys relate do you have

we don't we live completely separate lives yeah

that's that's not we've done it for 30 years does he know where you're living now or no no sometimes he'll get like a piece of mail and he'll know kind of where i've been no we um yeah we've, I mean, it's, you know, it's a freaking journey.

30 years is a long time.

Oh, you fight for time.

You fight for it every time.

You have to fight for it.

We have to go, especially since like one of two kids is now, like, for all intents and purposes,

you know, he's launched.

We're like, wow, okay, looking at each other, like, we got to invest in this.

Like, this is the time now to like go on some weekend trips and like, you know,

rediscover ourselves and make sure like that we're okay for when she goes in two years because we don't want to just look at each other and be like, I don't know.

Empty house syndrome is overblown.

It is.

We love it.

You loved it.

You loved it.

I love hearing this.

Just right now, feeling like it's like, if you do it right, if you do it, they're coming back.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

They never go away.

No, come on.

Yeah.

No, exactly.

Like, my friend was like, you are going to do his laundry in November.

Yeah.

She was just like, don't worry about it.

I don't know.

I know, I know, but it's, it just hits you.

Like, I just didn't expect to be like, oh, that changes so fast from like

being his mom to being like his peer not peer but you know what i mean like i gotta like speak to him on the level like got to you do become more interesting as a parent i think so too when they're out in the world yes because all of their sentence it's like oh shoot well what is this no i'm i'm finding that like even our text relationship is becoming like much more um

like just feels like okay i'm really into like this we went to ireland for two weeks this summer too the two of us which i'd never been to ireland Yeah.

How wonderful.

He had been backpacking through Europe, like hostel to hostel, which is the greatest.

He loved it.

Met so many cool people.

And then I kind of like swooped him up and we went to Ireland for two weeks and I rented a car.

I drove to

your hotel.

We were able to do his laundry.

I was laughing though because I was like, his laundry.

The cost of doing it at this hotel was probably five times as much as actually the worth of his clothing at that point.

But

it was a dream.

We had like plants together.

And like,

yeah, it was, it was actually really, and I think that's when I kind of mourned it the most because he went off to like finish his trip and, and it was like, okay, okay.

Like, you know, I kind of went upstairs, threw myself on the bed, like wailed, like wailed like

Banshee.

And then it was like, all right.

Another thing, sorry.

Tell me, please.

You're into

birthing your children out into the world.

I'm talking about my mother dying.

So you can see where

it's all the same.

It is all the same.

And one of the things I realized when I was mourning my mother's passing, you know, and I was 57, maybe.

I was very successful in life.

I was so happily married.

I had kids out in the world.

And when I would have the time to walk on the beach and have a good cry,

the cry was a nine-year-old boy

going, what am I ever going to do?

How can I go on?

Just in that moment.

And then, you know, it went went on but i don't think you realize what it's no i got mother in that moment my mother your mother who literally is the reason why you're taking a breath you know every you know cell in your body came from her you know it's like oh wow yeah i don't think i gave her enough credit while she was alive i did but not

i hear you i lost my dad two years ago and ouch

ouch it doesn't matter how old you are it's ouch yeah yeah i mean yeah i mean but i was able like i had the privilege of being in the i got there and he had already had like a big stroke so it was kind of my he left it all to me

but to and i i knew that um

you know he didn't want to be his

what is it called the like when you're like decide what oh my god my brain will

testament no oh do i live or die do you pull the plug or not sorry whatever yeah yeah yeah yeah So that was very clear.

And I remember we did it.

I, we dimmed the lights.

We played Frank Sinatra.

Um, we, I laid down, I took a nap because I'd just flown there.

And then like, he's in Cleveland.

And as I woke up, um, the sweet nurse like tapped me on the shoulder and she was like, okay, it's, it's getting close.

So in my mind, he let me have this like, rest.

And I got really close to him and we like were breathing together.

My husband left the room.

My brothers were out here, but I made sure one of my brothers got to talk to him on the phone.

And Ethan left.

And like, we kind of, we had like a, we kind of breathed together, like, as his breath was getting like longer and longer, like, we were like, felt very connected during it.

And

when it happens, like, when it finally was like, you know, he takes that breath and it just doesn't come out again.

And I'd never seen him so relaxed.

Like, there was was something about it that was like

the like weight of personality kind of like

fell off.

And it was so vulnerable.

I'd never seen him that vulnerable.

And, you know, there was that moment where all of a sudden the like, the like roof of the, of the hospital room was just like sky.

It was like a really profound

experience.

So yeah, it was like, that was, I am, I'm so honored that, and so happy that I was going to be able to, that I was able to be there for that.

Cause it was like touch and go.

But, um, yeah, it's deep, deep, deep.

It's deep.

You know, and I'll, it's like you, it's uh,

because they do if you're, if your life is blessed that you die before your children, one of the gifts you give them is this is how you do it.

Yeah.

You know, I don't know what the book is.

You live, you die as you live, or you live.

How we live is, how we live is how we die.

Yeah.

I think it still holds.

Yeah.

But, you know, keep going.

Stay curious right up and down

and including the end.

Yes.

Don't, you know, I think you have a

responsibility

to show those who are coming after you that this is part of life.

Yeah.

How you face life.

This moment is as much

part of your life as your life.

How you face change.

Like, do you get tense and fear it or can you like flow through it and feel everything?

And yeah, it's like a.

If you're around when I pass and I'm going, no, no, I will remind you.

I will hold the Kindle.

Mary would be fine with that if I just kind of came in with the Kindle

or the audio book.

For sure.

For sure.

Very cool.

Five years from now, Magic One.

Where are you?

What are you doing?

Okay, five years from now.

Five to ten in that range.

Okay, great.

I would love to be on some land.

I don't know where it is, but I would love to have some land, some quiet farmland, woods, land,

walk.

Woods.

Yeah.

I want dogs just walking around that like leashes on.

I want a bunch of them.

I want maybe some other animals.

I want like a stone barn.

I want to be

in a next chapter with my husband that just feels like

proud and again, analog and like

having the having time, like trusting that we can have time.

I want our ideally our kids will just come

visit on the regular with their families.

There's places, so many places I still want to see on this planet.

I love travel.

We've been to some really crazy places.

And

I would love to investigate

what

people I could play as I get older and older.

I'm very curious.

Me too.

I mean, one of the things I said recently is I want to know what it's like to try to be funny at every age given.

100%.

And that's why I love Mike Shore.

He has given me that.

Yes, there's so many parts that I couldn't do 20 years ago that I feel like I'm like, especially I can't wait to go.

I'd love to be back in theater.

I haven't been able to do it since my son was a year.

I'd love to, if it's,

I would love to feel good in this country.

I would love to feel like this is exactly where I'm so happy to be here.

I'm so proud to be here.

And

I mean, that would be the dream.

Sunday roasts.

I'm going to get into Sunday roasts.

Yes.

Yeah, I really, really do.

Like just putting it in the oven and have a whole Sunday of people coming over and leaving and eating.

It's very English.

Sunday roast.

Exactly.

I really, it's very English.

I think that's why when I heard it, I was like, that's the way to do it.

Like, that is the way to do it.

They know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That would be a dream.

It's become a pub thing.

You get the best Sunday roasts in pubs.

Yes.

I love a Sunday roast, but I can't, that would be, that would actually be the dream.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I am so happy.

I got to spend time with you.

Dancing.

You're a delight.

Yeah.

I'm so grateful that this happened.

And

I really was a pleasure getting to know your brain a little bit.

Yeah, you do.

And your heart.

This was really sweet, intense, and good.

Just keep petering off to the end.

No, just give me one last snort, and I'll be happy.

Now

a little manufactured, but that's okay.

That was a lot of fun for me.

Emmy nominated Catherine Hahn, catcher in the studio on Apple TV Plus.

That's all for our show this week.

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See you next time

where everybody knows your name.

You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes.

The show is produced by me, Nick Liao.

Our executive producers are Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and myself.

Sarah Fedorovich is our supervising producer.

Engineering and Mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez.

Research by Alyssa Grahl.

Talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista.

Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Gen, Mary Steenbergen, and John Osbourne.

Hi, I'm Roman Mars, host of 99% Invisible.

It's a podcast about all the thought that goes into things most people don't even think about.

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