To Be Fully Transparent with Lindsie Chrisley

Spring is here and so are the deals at DeeDee's discounts. DeeDee's is the perfect place for all your spring must-haves in fashion, home decor, and even gifts.
Because your home and your wardrobe deserve a refresh. Trust me, you can get cute sundresses and spring tops at crazy low prices because DeeDee's has all the trendy sandals and handbags.
And their home decor, why settle for boring plates when DeeDee's is serving up style? While you're at it, grab some throw pillows and refresh. Plus, they have clothes for kids.
And to all the guys out there, if your wardrobe can use an upgrade, start at Didi's. Find polos, fresh teas, and more.
Why wait? The deals are at Didi's. I stopped by Didi's just to browse.
And the next thing I knew, I had a cart full of spring fashion, cute accessories, and even a little gift for my bestie at crazy good prices. If you love trendy styles and great prices, now is the time to hit up DeeDee's Discounts.
Spring is here, and so are the deals at DeeDee's Discounts. From trendy outfits to home makeovers, DeeDee's has all the deals you need.
I'm talking everything from sandals and sundresses to spring throw pillows and scented candles. You love a good deal? Get in your bag and get to Dee Dee's discounts.
Welcome to the shit show. Things are going to get weird.
It's your fave villain, Kale Wally. And you're listening to Barely Famous.
We have a very special guest today on Barely Famous and I'm very excited. You know her, you love her.
She has hair extensions. Not anymore.
You don't have hair extensions. Not anymore.
I took Lux's advice. And you cut your hair.
And I cut it off. I love that.
Well, you've never been on Barely Famous, so welcome to Barely Famous. Can you believe that we have been podcasting since 2017? No.
We both have secondary shows and have never – well, actually, you have a lot more shows than I do – but have never been on each other's other shows. Because I think that the difference is that we have a show together, so we don't necessarily need to.
But in this particular instance, I feel like we have reached the threshold where it is pretty necessary. It is absolutely very necessary.
I'm tired of getting DMs. I'm also tired of getting comments and DMs.
I'm also tired of going on Facebook and seeing the things that I see on Facebook. I think the problem is that when we are not fully transparent, people are left to their own devices to fill holes, to make assumptions, to come up with their own narrations.
And obviously, we know that there is a group of people that will, across the board,

they believe what they want to believe, right? Like we know that.

You could show receipts, come with straight facts, no lies, and they're still going to

believe whatever it is that they feel like is the narrative. 100%.
And I think that after we get

through this month of episodes, like I never want to talk about any of this ever again. Not because I don't want to talk about it, but I'm just like, it's tired.
And it's like, I cannot spend any more time convincing people what is the truth. So I brought Lindsay on Barely Famous.
We collectively decided that this was a good place to talk about this because, well, why?

I think because Barely Famous is or has become solo your life and the things that you deal with personally, whether that be in business or just in your personal life. I do the same thing on Southern Tea and I think the dynamic is just very different on coffee combos and I think it is a necessary outlet for you to do this.
I think we should tell everybody the beginning to the end of baby mama's no drama from start to finish from your perspective. Okay so we're going down memory lane.
A lane that I don't like to travel. So we had coffee combos since 2017.
Kale decided – actually, I really don't know the truth of what was decided for baby mamas, so I would love to hear that from your perspective. I know when it happened that I was completely blindsided by it, and I found out when the trailer dropped when everyone else found out about it.
So baby mama started when I was sitting at my house in Middletown, which I only lived for a short time. I was sitting in my living room.
V texted me and said, we should do a podcast talking about co-parenting and call it baby mama's no drama. Timeline of Baby Mamas and V texting me was 2019 into 2020.
I don't know the exact timing on what that was. I made a personal decision that Kristen did not necessarily agree with to not tell you.
And I think at that time, you and I were not, I'm not going to say we weren't getting along. We fight like sisters and we always have.
And I was concerned about your reaction at that time. And that's the honest to God truth was that I did not know how you were going to react to it.
So I felt like if I told you ahead of time, you would potentially talk me out of it. That's how I felt.
Okay. And that's all I have to say.
And I mean, in fairness, I would have. Try to talk me out of it.
Knowing what I know now. Mm-hmm.
Yes. But hindsight's always 20-20, right? I also have that – I share that same perspective, like looking back and knowing what I know now.
But also in such a full range of clear vision. and I've been saying that people are very, very upset by me saying that V and I were never friends and V and I were never co-parents.
And I'm not saying

that to be a dick. That is the truth.
We don't co-parent and we were not friends. We never have

been. We've been friendly.
And I think at the time it was like, we're friendly, so we're friends,

but they are not the same thing. And so looking back, we should have never started a co-parenting

Thank you. been.
We've been friendly. And I think at the time it was like, we're friendly, so we're friends, but they are not the same thing.
And so looking back, we should have never started a co-parenting podcast, especially because I look back and I see you and I were talking about co-parenting

on Coffee Combos. Well, and I think that was the issue that I had.
If you're going to do something

else, make it different from what you're already doing. And it just very much felt to me like maybe possibly someone, I don't know who, saw success somewhere and was like, oh, we can duplicate and replicate that same thing.
But why? Also in hindsight and with a lot of personal resentment with the business of baby mamas, I also look back and I see that realizing now that people are commenting saying that V built 50% of this platform and now Becky is encroaching on that, I beg to differ. That's not fair to Becky.
No, but I now see your perspective on that side of it, right? Because in the beginning, when you found out about baby mamas and you were blindsided and you were really upset, rightfully so, I was like, what is, what in my head, I didn't say this, but like in my head, I was like, what is Lindsay talking about? I don't understand. I don't understand.
I don't understand. You came to coffee combos and we built coffee combos off of both of us being where we were at.
You already had a following. The difference between, and this is going to V, if you're listening, this is going to everybody listening.
The difference between Lindsay and I starting a podcast and paying our podcast dues was that V came in with a following that already came from me. Her following started from me being on 16 and Pregnant and Teen Mom.
So she already shares all of those followers with me. Of course, she's gained her own over the very small fraction of those are on her own, but that already is from me.
Now, Lindsay and I have built success in the podcasting world. And then V comes in.
I share this now, but I didn't feel, I didn't know what you were saying back then. And so I couldn't understand your level of upset or discomfort with it.
I have a lot of resentment because, and I've said this already, I'll say it again. I want it to be very clear and I don't want it to be as emotionally charged.
These people, Joe, Javi, Lauren, V have all capitalized off of me exploiting my life. And it's really upsetting now.
And it's very difficult for me to not build resentment for that. So when people, when I read comments today saying, oh, that is 50% of V's platform.
No, it was, I will say 98% my platform, but also a portion of that 98% was our platform from Coffee Combos podcast. Well, I think that we have seen, because we do have secondary shows, that people who were invested in Coffee Combos with us as a you will, wanted to have access to us in other ways on other shows.
So naturally that following went from one show to the next show, to the next show, to the next show. And my biggest issue was someone coming into the podcast space who is not a podcast veteran and being able to capitalize off of that.
I don't like it. And I now agree.
And I'm sorry that I felt like I couldn't be honest with you about it to begin with. And I think that I should have, you've always been sort of like a voice of reason.
And I think that you do have good advice. And I think now it would have been a better idea for me to come to you and basically present the idea and get your advice or your even perspective or feelings on it.
Not that I necessarily needed your blessing, but I think from a business point, you do make very good points and I should have done that. And I maybe wouldn't be here today.
I don't think that it would have changed anything if we had a conversation. I think that you still would have done the show.
And I think, um, when you hear an idea and you're like, wow, this will be something like new and something cool and something that we can provide because we do have a child that goes 50, 50 between these homes. And a lot of parents, I think it's like 51% of the population who are dealing with co-parenting issues.
I get it. And we don't share that dynamic.
So that could have worked, but it only could have worked if you were willing to come to the table fully transparent and she was willing to come to the table fully transparent and you were both 50% providing that transparency. That's where the resentment came in, started to come in from a business and financial standpoint was I was presented this podcast idea under false pretenses and thought that it was going to be an extension of our co-parenting and our personal lives in that way.
So when I listened to the end of the era episode of Baby Mama's No Drama and V is sad and V is crying and V is talking about the privacy of her family, I call bullshit. That was really, really upsetting because I came off very abrasive, but that's because I took a page from your book and was like, let me be direct and clear about this.
It was not, I don't think, perceived the way that it should have been in my opinion. I think my tone should have been different, but also people needed to listen to what I was saying.
I was presented this idea under false pretenses.

You don't come to me and say that we're going to start a co-parenting podcast and then say

that you didn't want to share because you wanted to protect your family's privacy.

That goes against the entire reasoning to have the podcast to begin with.

I think looking back on it now, and I was not an advocate for baby mamas whatsoever.

Can I also add something right here? Because you and I have had a sister-like dynamic and we've been closer in certain periods and we've been business partners in certain periods and we fought in certain periods, but we've always come back. You are privy to information that I have shared with you over the years in that V has always had a lack of role in co-parenting.
I don't think that I was putting two and two together until the end of baby mamas. Does that make sense? I was saying it to you from a friend perspective, unrelated to any podcasting stuff.
V doesn't co-parent with us, but I wasn't even hearing myself. And then I should have,

in hindsight, obviously, I'm like, oh, wow. Well, like she was never co-parenting, but I had shared that with you.
And I think that also for you gave you perspective on like, wait, why is she doing this? If I know this, but she's doing this and they're saying this and they're presenting this, but V's not actually co-parenting. So none of this makes sense.
You saw that before anybody else saw that. But I think to me from an inside perspective, nobody else can see that, right? I look at it and I'm like, wow, that is completely based off of false pretenses and it's fraud.
Yeah. But I don't think we realized it because we thought being friendly was co-parenting.
We thought being friendly was being friends. I mean, it's like the same way when you,

when people in general decide, you know, they don't decide, but they come to this realization in their late twenties or their thirties. And they're like, wait, those are not my friends.

They're my acquaintances. Right.
And you have this come to Jesus in your life and you're like,

wait, and all of the things are starting to align. It was sort of like that.
If you're craving an unforgettable escape, it's time to set sail with Virgin Voyages, where luxury is always included and the ordinary is never invited. From mouth-watering menus crafted by Michelin-starred chefs and next-level entertainment to unique fitness classes and ocean views that never quit.
Everything's designed to wow without the extra fees. Because why should amazing ever cost more? Need some relaxation? Your kid-free sanctuary is calling.
Kick back on your private terrace in a hand-woven virgin red hammock and let the sea breeze do the rest. And the adventures? They're epic.
Cruise the Caribbean or set sail to new destinations in the British Isles, Iceland, and the Met.

Plus, Brilliant Lady is making waves in North America with new departures from New York, Miami, L.A., and Seattle.

Ready to escape the ordinary?

Book now at virginvoyages.com or contact her travel advisor.

Millions of people have lost weight with personalized plans from Noom.

Like Evan, who can't stand salads and still lost 50 pounds.

Salads generally for most people are the easy button, right?

For me, that wasn't an option.

I never really was a salad guy.

That's just not who I am.

But Noom worked for me.

Get your personalized plan today at Noom.com.

Real Noom user compensated to provide their story. In four weeks, the typical Noom user can expect to lose one to two pounds per week.
Individual results may vary. I think that oftentimes people mix up, back to your point, friendly and friends.
You can be a friendly person with a lot of people, but you're not friends with everyone. 100%.
And that's where I missed the mark. And that's where I'm acknowledging that this is not solely V's fault.
This is also my fault for not acknowledging some of these things and not speaking up sooner. I also, once I realized this and I started building resentment, I wasn't going directly to V in the beginning because I kept thinking, oh, it'll get better.
It will become friends. And then we had the office together.
We had that first big falling out when I realized what she did behind my back and, you know, to my with my ex-husband. And that sort of severed a lot.
I feel we should have ended the business right there. But then because we ended it so amicably and we were so professional about it, I was like, okay, if she can own this and we can also end this the way it is, why are we going to end the business? And so it's sort of come in waves.
And then at one point I finally hit my wall and I went directly to V and I said, what the fuck are we doing? We are not friends. We are not co-parents.
We are not any of this. Like we do not hang out.
We don't have conversations outside of business. We don't even talk co-parenting until the last like year and some change, maybe close to two years.
It was like, you know, personally speaking on the co-parenting front was like, Joe was not doing his job. And then when other things started to happen, you know, V didn't say anything to me.
And it was, it wasn't until she was directly impacted by this, that then she's coming forward and saying this, this, this, and this, that I really was like, this is absolutely nothing like what I thought it was. I disagree with you a little bit about the friend situation because I think that you both had a desire to be each other's friend, but did not know how to make it happen to be each other's friend.
I don't want to get into the nitty gritty of things that I know about you guys going to lunch. I feel like that was an effort to be friends.
And then you feeling this resentment in the business because things aren't being shared and you feel like all of your stuff is being aired out and the other person isn't airing out any of their stuff. I think it built further resentment and that was probably the straw that broke the camel's back.
I also, speaking to that, I don't ever expect anyone to air out their dirty laundry to the extent that I do, right? Like I don't even expect you to do that, never have. But when we start a co-parenting podcast, I do expect us to be able to talk about the scenarios in a way that we're all comfortable with, that we are being transparent about the struggles, right? Like it doesn't have to be the nitty gritty details down to like the minute little, you know, things that have occurred, but we should be able to say, okay, V and I just recently went through a huge struggle with co-parenting.
Here's the gist of it. And here's how we worked through it.
That is the level that I would have been comfortable with, but that wasn't even being done. It was very much like, I can't speak on Joe.
I can't speak on his behalf. I can't speak for him.
I'm not, there was no speaking about it, but was, but I was expected to give baby mamas my pregnancies, my relationship. It was very, there was a conversation that occurred behind my back about not why I wasn't giving that to baby mamas.
And I had said, if I was going to give it to any show other than Barely Famous, it would be Coffee Combos because that is the mothership of all of these podcasts. I also think that it probably could have been remedied had Joe been brought in to the mix, if that was the issue, then Joe needs to be there to speak for himself.
Because if you're putting yourself in a situation and agreeing that we are going to talk about co-parenting, but you don't feel comfortable to talk about co-parenting without your partner, which I can understand because it could get sticky, then let him be there to talk for himself. I mean, that's an idea.
We never talked. We've never, that's, that was not something that we ever discussed that I remember.
I mean, Kristen, can, do we have, do we ever talk about having Joe come on? Maybe one time we talked about bringing him on to potentially have him speak up and she was not with it. I think there was one time that I'm like vaguely remembering.
Um, and I just kept saying to her, why are you not speaking for yourself? I'm not asking you to speak for Joe, but it's because she doesn't have a voice in our co-parenting, whatever discussions they're having. She's not part of the ones that I've asked her to be a part of it.
I've asked Joe, there was a point where I reached out to Joe and I said, V needs to be involved. Like V's not showing up to anything for Isaac.
I mean, this was a long time ago. She's not coming to games.
I think she went to a handful of games maybe after I said something because I was like, what is going on? Like people have this like false perception of her level of involvement. And that's a problem.
Like if that's the case, then say that on the fucking podcast,

say on the podcast, you know what, Kale, here's why I can't have these conversations. I thought it was a good idea.
I thought that this was going to be the premise of the show, but come on the podcast and say it. So, because you're allowing me to be villainized for something that you set up.
I really also don't understand what would be the problem in having a conversation if she's not attending Isaac's games or whatever it was many moons ago, not even relevant anymore, but for the sake of the story. Right.
Sake of the story. Thank you.
Um, if that was the case, you would have never felt comfortable going on a baby mama's recording and addressing that and going to her and saying, Hey, like I have this issue and I would really like to talk to you about it. And I think it would be very helpful for people who are listening, also dealing with co-parenting.
This is how I feel about it. How can we work through this? That was never an option.
Or you didn't feel comfortable enough to do that? No, I tried. In my opinion, I feel like there were several instances where I tried to bring things up and she shut it down.
If you guys hear a sound, it's the air conditioner. For some reason, we can't turn it off.
So if you guys hear that like whooshing, we apologize. Back to what I was saying, all the show was presented to me to make it different than coffee combos was that you guys were going to be getting into the nitty gritty of the co-parenting situation where it would be more of an educational podcast for parents who are also in co-parenting situations.
Everybody's co-parenting situation looks different, but I do think that there was a place for that had it been done well and had it been done right. But when you're not doing what you're actually doing in your life and presenting something differently on a show for the sake of having a show, there's no use for it.
I think the reason why I'm still talking about it and sort of stewing over it is that I don't feel like the end of the era episode was in full transparency by both parties and I think that I'm still being villainized. I sent V an email shortly after we decided to end the podcast.
And it was, I mean, it was a novel, but I spelled out all of my feelings in very clear, direct communication. And I CC'd Alessandra on it because people don't understand that I actually hired Alessandra for killer before all of this ensued.
So people right now are now dragging Alessandra into it. And that's not really fair for her, for us, for anybody, for V.
V knew about her position working for killer. I CC'd her on it because I was trying to make it clear that I wanted to be clear on all the episodes discussing this whole situation.
And the only way to do that was to include Alessandra so that she could understand the level of comfort that I was at in talking about all of this. I also made it explicitly clear on a recorded meeting with me, Kristen, Alessandra, and Vee exactly what my feelings were and that I would be speaking on it as soon as I feel comfortable and that nobody was going to tell me no.
So I just want that to also be very clear. V was made aware that I was going to talk about this to any extent that I wanted to.
So I sent V an email before the end of baby mamas being very clear, being very direct, being all of those things. And I'm not going to like pause so that you guys can read it because I think that it's really personal.
But I mean, it was a hefty fucking email. So her knowing exactly what I feel, the personal reasons, the resentment, the business reasons, the business resentment was all very clearly and directly spelled out.
And so her silence right now over these last couple of weeks, allowing people to continue to villainize me when it's, it wasn't me is really upsetting. I think that there is a big disconnect and I'll, I'll get into the fact that I had conversations with you and V in the midst of this blow up of baby mamas.
I think that V feels that the issue is with Joe and you feel that the issue is with her. And I think that is a huge, huge disconnect.
But I made it very clear. I, I sent this email to V in the beginning of October, making it very, this was the same week as our tour date.
Texas date? No, Philly date. Ohio.
Oh, wow. I was unaware of that.
It's very clearly spelled out in detail, every single reason with an elaboration and also making it very clear that

none of this is about Joe. While I do believe you do have co-parenting issues with Joe,

I think the falling out of baby mamas was unrelated, unrelated to that. I think it was

the, the lack of co-parenting on V's part and the involvement that you wanted her to have. And I think I want to very gingerly dance around because it's not my business about you guys going to lunch and having personal conversations and then not being able to have the follow through when it came to a co-parenting issue.
I think that that was the straw that broke the camel's back on the situation. And I just think that on top of so much resentment, when I look at kind of where I am in my life, I talked about this on other episodes with other cast members about like what my friend's role was in, you know, a lot of my teen mom era.

My friends became huge parts of my story because I didn't have family members to talk to and I didn't always necessarily have a partner to talk to. And because of that, these people and exes and their partners are growing these massive followings on social media and then turning around and weaponizing it against me when I am the reason why you have that.
And I think that that is where the resentment also started. So this is not just the lack of co-parenting.
This is not just baby mamas. There are so many layers.
And I think just realizing that I had the resentment in the first place, and then also realizing that people think that it's something it's not when you're not seeing the back end. A lot of the viewers, the audience of baby mamas or coffee combos or any of these podcasts are looking at it and it's like, well, V built that.
No, V did not build that. And it wasn't 50%.
And then I was, I gave her 50% of a business that was very successful.

And all of that is being weaponized against me.

And I don't think that is fair.

I am a villain in very certain situations.

But I also think a lot of the situations, and I think Becky can attest to it, you can attest to it, is that a lot of my fallouts are not just my doing.

A lot of them are either mutual or a lot of times they did me fucking dirty. And that's across the board.
And this is actually something that I've wanted to say to you for a long time. And it's just never come up naturally.
I think you need to stop self-identifying as the villain because I do think that you went through that era for a long era of your life and you were self-identifying with that. So you were okay with that behavior.
But I don't think you're that person anymore. I don't think I was that person in general.
I think that I've done shitty things just like every other fucking person. I think I've done – I've made poor choices just like any other person.
But I think that people have really leaned into – like I've leaned into the villain role that I've sort of been pigeonholed into, but I truly haven't made more, more poor decisions or horrible, had truly horrible behavior compared to anybody else. It's just, I think it's magnified in some ways.
I also, I, I'm resentful and this is, I don't know if I've ever said this, but I mean, none of the people who capitalize off of my following have ever thanked me in any way, shape, or form. V has never said thank you to me.
Joe has never said thank you to me. Javi has never said thank you to me.
Lauren has never said thank you to me. And it's not necessarily that I need a thank you.
It's just to be acknowledged that you are able to gain or benefit in some way for me exploiting my life.

I think like I have sat on that for so long and not one time,

like I knew how much he was making every month.

I know that that house that she moved into was solely because of baby

mamas.

So to sit here and villainize me and stay silent,

how could I not be resentful? I think that you guys did a huge disservice to the listenership. And I shared this with Kristen that I felt it would have been in the best interest.
You guys did baby mamas for what four years, right? There were moments of time during those four years that you guys did not want to be in the same room and did not want to record with each other. And there was conflict and stuff going on.
I personally feel like, um, had you guys recorded the last episode together, whether that be virtually or in person that your delivery would have come across way different because it would have been a neutral, you guys would have gone into that conversation the same way. I would hope that in an ending of something that you would go into it very much the same way.
And you guys could have had banter with each other back and forth and given the listeners what they truly deserved. And then they didn't get that.
And then the tone shift from where you were and then where she was. I'm angry by her tone.
That was. It pissed me off.
Disheartening. I know that you're pissed off by it.
And I think that the tone shift from you and then to her part, and then also the silence, like the combination of all of that, I think it's making you more angry every day. Well, it's infuriating for you to be crying about a podcast ending and then remaining silent for weeks following when I made it explicitly clear direct.
We did a phone call. We did recording meetings.
I sent an email. It was very clear where all of this was coming from.
And I think the more that I sit on it, the angrier I get because more things keep getting put into play, right? I responded to a comment on social media of someone

saying that I needed to end this as amicably as possible because V probably has dirt on me.

I want it to be very clear that it's the other way around. I said that and that is the truth.

And all of this episode is not even speaking on the truth. Everything that I've said in this episode is the surface layer of all of the things that I'm feeling and is the surface layer of all of the resentment, the reason why we ended.
But further, I want to add, because as time goes on, I think of more things. When we first ended Baby Mamas, the first time when I found out what she did with Javi behind my back, she moved out of the office that we shared together.
But when we ended it amicably and professionally and we were like, okay, actually we could keep this going, we were still recording in person. So she was coming into the office and we would record in person at the point that I was like, okay, but if we're recording in person, that is a baby mama's venture.
That is baby mama's time using my office. And we have a whole entire room that can only ever be used for baby mamas.
She refused to pay any portion of that. And to me, that also is a smack in the face.
So that also adds to the layers of resentment was like, you're benefiting in all of these ways. Your social media has grown 200, 300,000 followers.
You are not paying a dime towards the office. And yeah, I understand you moved out of it from your personal businesses, but baby mamas is still being recorded there, right? The room cannot be used for anything else.
So what's so interesting about the financial aspect of y'all's business, we can have similar businesses, but the way that we have ran the businesses differently is just so crazy because you and I don't have that dynamic. If there is something that needs to be spent, just like, okay.
We just split it right down the middle. Yeah.
But that wasn't the dynamic for baby mamas. I just think with the situation, with the financial aspect of the business, right? You had already been doing podcasting for years before baby mamas came along and there were already expectations that were kind of set in your mind.
So I think that you probably went into that business thinking that it was going to similarly be ran. And we've had so many conversations where Kale wants certain things and I'm like, I don't really care about them, but I don't mind sharing the expense if it makes my business partner happy.
And you've done the same for me. A hundred percent.
And so you probably wouldn't have cared as much about the financial stuff had you not had something to base it off of. I, I don't share the same views for you because it's just a very different dynamic and we started together and we kind of like created the whole like foundation, but it's really upsetting because I, I look at all the layers of it and I, I just, I don't know, I have a hard time with it.
And so then, you know, when it just, it felt like you're getting 50% of a business, I'm paying for X, Y, and Z. I come with the following.
I exploit my life. I am, there's just, there's so many layers to it.
And I, I don't know. I don't know that I'll get over it for a really long time.

What's also crazy that I don't think anybody would know about is that Kale and I really have no agreements outside of said agreements with each other. Yeah.
We don't have a co-host agreement. We don't have, oh, and that's also something that I wanted to talk about.
We want, I wanted to touch on that was V not speaking out when she sees all the hate that I'm getting, knowing that she fully and willingly signed everything over to me with no questions asked. Like, you're not even saying that out loud.
Like you're not even going on your platforms and saying like this, you're speaking more volumes to everything that I have felt. And you're actually validating exactly how I feel about you as a person towards me by not saying anything.
And you're not, I mean, people aren't reading between the lines and I think that they're never going to be able to. And so this is probably going to be the last time I ever speak on it because I can't convince people to see what I see and what we see and what, I mean, I don't expect you to hate her, but like at the end of the day, like you did see things and you were privy to information.
I also think just taking it back to like the start of baby mamas, I didn't know about it. And then it was presented to me as it was this co-parenting podcast.
And I'm like, well, Kale and I are both in co-parenting situations and we already talk about that on coffee combos. However, the dynamic would have been very different in a co-parenting situation with And we already talk about that on Coffee Combos.
However,

the dynamic would have been very different in a co-parenting situation with V. So I get like why you guys would want to do that.
But when it first started, I don't know if you remember me coming to you and saying that show needs to be removed from society and culture and needs to be put in a parenting podcast category. If you guys are just talking about parenting and then it moved to like pop culture and then all of these other things there was no division of those shows at one point and I don't think and maybe this is just an outsider looking in because I haven't talked to you necessarily about it but I think um when you guys could not be fully transparent about the co-parenting you guys were trying to save the show as much as you possibly could.
So you started dipping into other things to talk about. And I just don't think that was the place to do it.
A hundred percent. I agree with that.
And I know that the people listening to this podcast might be like, what the fuck are you guys talking about? But when you guys are looking through, you know, Spotify or Apple or wherever you listen to your podcast and you see the different categories, it is a big deal to us because we basically replicated when we very quickly did not talk about co-parenting in our co-parenting situation. And then we were moving on to other people's co-parenting, but it was a very, very small fraction of the show.
It became the Tumu version of coffee combos very quickly. And so then we had to create this master sheet with all the shows and we had to make sure that podcast topics and categories and pop culture or current events, they could not cross over because that was a huge problem.
It was like, I had this really great thing going with Lindsay, let's turn around and we're going to basically turn that into baby mamas, which I agree. Like we did not come prepared to talk about co-parenting, whether it be ours or anybody else's.
We really didn't. We relied heavily on people writing into us about their co-parenting.
But again, even that was such a small fraction of the show. And the whole thing was baby mamas's no drama.
At the point that we started the podcast and V decided very early on or quickly that she was not going to be sharing anything was a point where we needed to have a conversation about what the direction of the show was and if it needed to be renamed or if we needed to end it right then and there. Because truly as a whole, we did not talk about co-parenting much.
But then when you guys started doing co-parenting tea, was that what it was called? Co-parent tea. Co-parent tea.
Yeah. When you guys started doing that, it felt, I don't want to call y'all fake.
No, but we, it felt forced. It felt manufactured.
Forced situation, a manufactured situation. And if you cannot speak on your own co-parenting, if you can't, and I believe this in everything in life, if you cannot speak on your own situation, you should not be speaking on others and giving advice to others.
I would agree. And I think people, I felt that.
I think the listeners felt that. And we would get, when we turned a lot of the show into Co-Parent Tea, people were, they picked up on it very quickly and they were like, something is wrong.
They're only talking about other people. They're only talking about Co-Parent Tea because people grew to like and listen to a similar podcast to Coffee Combos.
And that wasn't fair to you. It wasn't fair to us at Coffee Combos.
And I'm not blaming V for that. I don't want this portion of it.
I'm not blaming

V. We never had a beating to discuss, oh, we need to figure it out.
Yeah. We had a meeting,

but it was more so over crossover than it was about acknowledging the fact that we weren't

talking about our co-parenting and that talking about other people's co-parenting wasn't the vibe. Mm-hmm.
I also just think that it's a little odd knowing that if we're going to call coffee combos the mothership, now you do have Barely Famous. So if you want to take like personal stuff over there, that's perfectly fine because I take personal stuff over to Southern Tea, right? But when you're taking it to a secondary show that used basically what we created as a launching point and then… Capitalizing off of it in that way? Capitalizing off of it, but then possibly breaking news about pregnancies over there.
If I'm willing to share like nitty gritty stuff on coffee combos, but the co-owner founder of the other show is not willing to speak on anything. Why would that be a expectation that you were going to leak pregnancies? And I also think that that's a little bit sticky considering the fact of what transpired with V and Javi.
I also want to clarify that for anyone who doesn't know about that. What happened was Javi and I were getting divorced.
But prior to us getting divorced, we were actively trying for a baby after Lincoln. This was, I believe, in 2015.
This was in 2015. And we were actively trying for a baby.
I miscarried on Veterans Day, which the anniversary of that is coming up next week. I miscarried on Veterans Day and that baby was actively tried for.
I personally, and I've said this a hundred times and I will say it until I'm blue in the face, for me, I'm not judging anyone else's situation. I would never put myself in a position where I didn't know who the father was.
I'm not doing that. That's never going to be me, despite whatever rumors you've heard, despite how many men I've slept with, I'm never putting myself in a position where I don't know who the father is.
So for V to have come up with that on her fucking own. Wait, I was not.
I thought it was just a leaked pregnancy. I don't know the details.
No, ma'am. She met him in the parking lot.
Was it Wawa? It was it was Target okay was it Wawa um and told him that I was pregnant he knew that I was pregnant um but that the baby may not have been his and I got an abortion it wasn't a miscarriage it was an abortion let's that sink in. Where did you come up with that? Where did you, I've never gotten to the bottom of that.
I was told what was said, how they met up at night. Joe didn't know about it.
And Javi used that, kept it in his back pocket, which I mean, something I would do. But the horrible thing about that was that I blamed Bone.
Oh, you blamed someone else. He insinuated that it was someone very close to me and that it was someone that I am best friends with.
And so I was under the impression that it was Bone. So I went directly to Bone and Bone and I were not, I mean, she was like, no, but he insinuated that it was her because he kept saying, your your best friend has skeletons in her closet so he's like dropping hints that it was bone get it skeletons bone so I'm having this underlying distrust for bone someone who didn't do it because y'all colluded in a parking lot for what why would you do that to me like I and but how did that even go down I would like to the details of like, was it an Instagram message exchange? No, it was in person.
No, but like to know to go to Target. Oh, I don't remember if it was DMs or if it was text, but it was to meet up.
And I was told that it was that night in the Target parking lot. Joe did not know what was transpiring, what was occurring.
But at that time, was there beef between you and V that would call that? There was no – at the time, there was no beef between V and I when I asked her about it because I was sitting in the office when I found out. Javi told me via text in an argument.
So I walked from one room in the office to another and looked at her dead in the face. And actually, I put them in a group chat.
And then I walked to the room. And then confronted it? Mm-hmm.
And at that point, she had said she was upset because she thought that I leaked her pregnancy with Vivi five or six years earlier. So then when you got pregnant again, then that was the revenge? Mm-hmm.
But you didn't leak. If you felt that way, you should have came and said something.
Yeah. She told me that was the reason why she did it in the first place.
Also, I just want to make it clear that me leaking someone else's pregnancy doesn't benefit me in any way, shape or form. At all.
If I'm about anything it's probably to for my own my own financial gain um and it's gonna be about myself so I'm not gonna some leaking V's pregnancy does I did not I would not have gotten paid for that I don't think I think at some point beyond the peak of teen mom like you don't get paid for stuff anymore is my guess. I mean, I don't know that for sure.
That's what's so interesting to me. People will be like, oh, well, so-and-so told it and they got paid to do it.
It's like – But like if you got – from experience, when Teen Mom was at its peak, in order to get paid, you had to go on the record. So if you thought that I leaked it, that means one, I wasn't on the record, which means I most likely didn't get paid.
So, and it just, none of that adds up what it doesn't benefit me to leak these pregnancy. And also at the time I was, I think when she was having, when she was with pregnant with Vivi, like Javi and I were like, okay, as far as I remember, I got.
Like what benefit was that to me? So then how did that all like play out? So did, who went? I think that I never really fully processed it the way that I should have. I never took time to like move on and like get over it.
It was very much like in order to stick it to Javi and I confronted V face to face and she said everything that she had to say. I was like, okay, you told me and now I can go back to Javi and say, oh, well, like it was more to stick it to Javi that, okay, well, I'm going to stay in business with V.
V admitted it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The fucked up part now looking back is that when we did business together, she should have came to me and said, by the way, this happened.
I don't want this to come back because you came to me with a business idea and we started a business and we signed contracts for a business and you never mentioned it and you never thought that this was going to come bite you in the ass. That's crazy.
That's crazy to trust Javi to put that much, like you put that much trust into Javi and you started a business with me. Did you forget that you did that?

Javi is coming for us after this, by the way. I don't think so because I actually don't think that Javi had a lot of fault in this outside of making me believe that it was Bone.
I think it would be wrong. I mean, that's totally an ex-husband thing.
100%. That they would do like try to throw you off the trails, you know? A hundred percent.
And he was hurt. We were young.
also to say that I wouldn't have, if I had someone that was willing to give me information, which they did when Javi was like accused of cheating on me overseas, people came to me and told me that, like I was going through an act of divorce. I wanted to seek out information that would benefit me or make me feel better or give me any level of justification.
So I actually give Javi grace in that because if

that was me, I would absolutely want to know what you had to say. So I'm not mad at Javi.
I'm just

mad at him for insinuating that it was bone. I also want to address because multiple times

we've all been called liars in various different things, like with your pregnancies.

There's a difference between lying and keeping something private until you're ready to talk

about it. They're very different.
And I was always going to talk about it. I mean, people have to understand that like we run businesses together and there would be no way for me not to know that you were pregnant or for Kristen not to know that you were pregnant.
People who are working with you on a weekly or daily basis, like, yes, that was things that we knew very early on, but it wasn't our place to tell it. It also is in poor taste, in my opinion, for y'all to expect me to tell it on a podcast before I'm ready.
Like I was always going to talk about it. And we also have to understand that a new person, a new party was introduced at this time.
And I was leaving reality TV, which was a huge deal for me. I was at the – when I got pregnant with Rio was the worst point of my life ever.
I mean, the depression was so fucking real that I couldn't have talked about it if I wanted to. I was barely showing up for Coffee Combos podcast at all.
And then to have that leaked and exploited and everything else on top of my depression and everything that I was going through with Chris, it was just not a good time for me to talk about it. And then with the twins, I wanted to be able to enjoy that pregnancy without it being leaked possibly.
And then that didn't happen. And so it was, there's a difference between lying and being private.
There's a difference in my opinion. I also think that you kind of took the position of if I'm going to leave teen mom and I'm going to leave that paycheck behind,

there should be some privacy that I haven't been able to have since you were pregnant with Isaac.

I think it was more a learning curve and trying to adjust to the new parameters

and deciding what I was comfortable with sharing. If I was going to pivot from the level of, we'll call it exploitation or level of transparency, that was the time to do it.
That was the point in my life where I needed to make any adjustments that I wanted to make in the level of transparency and privacy of what I was willing to share in my life

and things like that, that was the time to do it. And I feel like I should have been, maybe I should have been more honest or like forthcoming about that sort of the gears turning on that.
Maybe that's where I sort of went wrong. Do you know what I mean? But I also think that you were processing that while simultaneously trying to do it.
So I don't think it was a, because I watched you, I don't think it was deliberate. No, like I wasn't trying to.
And so then people commenting on my stuff and cause I saw the troll page comments saying that I was lying about my pregnancy and I don't, I just don't think they're the same. Um, also if I ever lied, it was to protect my own peace and it was to protect my own privacy at that time, trying to figure out and find my footing, leaving reality TV.
That was a huge, y'all have to understand the level, the income of that show when I left. We're not talking small chunks of change.
Like I left huge amounts of money to pivot and change my life and change direction and do all of that. But I think, and maybe I should have spoke to it sooner than right now, just that sort of pivoting or changing.
But I, I actually don't think I ended up changing the level of transparency. I think I've been more transparent than I was on Teen Mom because I can elaborate.
I think that you have been so much more transparent because you're also in control of your own story. And I don't want people to twist in control of your own story to perceive that as a lie.
I think with TV, there are certain ways that things are edited for the viewer. And so much is cut down when you're sharing a show with a collective cast, right? And with long form content like podcast, you have had the opportunity to be able to share on your own time when you have been able to process and then do so in a way that people can understand the full story.
And so I do think this is the right time because it's the right time for you because the opportunity finally presented itself for you to be able to do so. I agree.
I'll agree with that. It's been sort of like this, I don't know, work in progress and deciding what is best, how much should I share? I don't want to villainize her, but I also think that her speaking, not speaking at all about the villainization of me and Kale is the problem on this whole thing is really weighing very heavily on me.
And I think that I wanted people to hear your perspective because people do also know about the beef that the beef between you and V. And it simply was business beef.
Like there was no personal beef with V. I didn't know enough about V to have personal issues.
I had issues when it came to business and making it feel like it was copy paste. Like you didn't come up with a new idea.
Like you're not rewriting a not like it was a rewrite of a novel is what it felt like. And so I did have an issue with that.

And I will be clear that I had an issue with that.

I also want it to be clear.

We have basically been called frauds because we all did Ohio together. the Ohio the ohio live show was a prime example of us being friendly and not friends me and i don't hang out outside of the podcast we didn't really have um until the last year and a half and that was like strictly us not seeing eye to eye on co-parenting things between joe and myself and her involvement or lack thereof or, you know, that just to clarify because people love to twist and run.
V and I also did not agree. We didn't see eye to eye on how to get to Ohio and how to pay for Ohio.
And we didn't see eye to eye on anything. She was also, I heard through the grapevine, very upset that she didn't want to be in Ohio.
She made it explicitly clear that she did not want to be in Ohio. She wanted the Philly show so that she didn't have to pay to go to Ohio.
And I, again, a smack in the face, the sense of entitlement was very upsetting to learn that you want to do these live shows, but you don't want to spend the money to do them. But so long as they're on my dime, it's okay.
But you wanted the Philly show so that you didn't have to travel. You absolutely did not want to be in Ohio.
You're pissed off that I didn't invite you to the Philly show. I went to Ohio on my birthday, on my own dime, on my own time, because you were starting something new and I wanted to be there to support.
In fairness, I had no idea I was going on stage. I just rolled with it.
V pulled me up there. She was not blindsided though, in any way, shape or form.
She was, I would say, surprised because at that point there was no beef. There was at that point, the business beef between y'all had subsided and y'all were cool.
And so she wasn't blindsided, at all that I'm aware of I knew you were there but I it was a surprise to me but I knew before you got pulled up on stage um and so it but none of it was it wasn't like a blindsided in a bad way y'all were already cool yeah and it wasn't to be like intentional to take spotlight off of anybody I don't think we we ever thought that though um I just want to clear it up for anybody who's listening that like that was not the intention at all it was my birthday it was the start of Kale touring I wanted to be there I thought it would be fun there was no longer beef between B and I it would be a great time for us to be able to see each other in person. It was a great time.
Yeah. Oh, I loved Ohio.

Yeah.

No. It would be fun.
There was no longer beef between Bea and I. It would be a great time for us to be able to see each other in person.
It was a great time. Yeah.
Oh, I loved Ohio. Yeah.
No, I loved Ohio as a whole. I didn't – I was tired, but I didn't go out with you guys.
You and Bea hung out outside of like whatever and like that's fine. I have no – the beef had subsided for so long, but I think we never really were – again, we weren transparent about the beef from the beginning.
And so people have speculated that y'all still had beef and y'all didn't. And so she wasn't blindsided in a bad way.
She was surprised. I feel like in a good way.
And I thought I was throwing everybody off because I was posting like I was going to Vegas and I was really in Ohio. So obviously I'm not the national bamboozler that I think that I am.
Some people really had no idea. No, a lot of people knew.
Can we get merch that says national bamboozler? Cause you posted that on your Instagram and it's, it's lived rent free in my head ever since. We actually are national bamboozlers sometimes.
Yeah. I just, I'm, I don't, I feel like, I feel like truly if I'm being fully transparent, cause y'all are making fun of me for saying that because of the pregnancy stuff, like, Oh, were you fully transparent when you didn't tell your pregnancies? They're very different, but in full transparency, I feel like V has been the national bamboozler because people really think that she has, we both collectively, both of us, I can't solely place the blame on her.
We have presented her and our co-parenting dynamic in a way that is not accurate. But I only know that now.
I didn't know that in the midst of it too. So like I also want to speak to that is like when we were out here presenting us as co-parents and presenting – Lying in the streets.
And like I don't like that. but we weren't doing, like, we thought we were out here presenting us as co-parents and lying in the streets.
And like, I don't like that. But we weren't doing like we thought we were something we weren't.
It's kind of like my relationship with Chris, where I was in a relationship with him and he wasn't in a relationship with me. Like I thought that it was something it wasn't.
I think we both thought it was something it wasn't. No, I think that you guys were trying to make fetch happen and it like just never was happening and then it came to a head and now it's all done i just want to be very clear that i don't have any beef with v i wish her well i hope that she continues vibing um i don't know how that will all transpire i hope the best for business but also individually y'all's personal lives.
And if y'all can't get along, then you truly do need to cleave way from each other and move on so that you can both be successful in your own way, whatever that looks like. And you guys do need to remember that she's still involved in a co-parenting situation that you are in.
And it's just disheartening. I wanted to speak a little bit on the fact that as much as I hated the idea of baby mamas when I found out about it, I was a soldier trying to save that business.
Yeah. You trying to save baby mamas I and you almost had you almost had me.
I will say that Lindsay was, she really, but you know what? I think, um, from a contractual and business company standpoint, other people recognize changes that needed to be made before all of this personal stuff was going on in terms of the dynamic of the show, the energy on the show, the content of the show was severely lacking. Which was kind of my point.
My idea behind Baby Mom is kind of falling apart in that process because it was like over what felt like a fucking year, but it was really like a week. I was was like why can't you guys just be authentic go on there and say we cannot talk about this we have not talked about this for a long time let's rebrand the entire show let's come up with a completely new concept and still be able to work together and I think that I actually had both of you for a small period of time oh did you did you say this to her too? Yeah.
I said it to her too. And what did she say? That she would be willing to like make changes, but you guys had to have mutual respect.
And I think that, and you felt that way as well, that there needed to be mutual respect. And, you know, sometimes respect looks very different for all people that are involved.
And so the respect that you could give her, she might not have been willing to receive it. And the respect she could give you, you might not have been willing to receive it.
And so I still wish it wasn't over. And I still wish that you guys did something different.
But I also want to speak on the fact that Becky should not be getting hate for stepping in to do a new project that had absolutely nothing to do with the fallout of baby mamas. It is my opinion at the point that Kale and Becky came back together and started rekindling a friendship that was a longtime friendship that went through a period of brokenness.
You and Becky were going to do a podcast before Baby Mamas ever came about. And that was something that you were transparent with me about.
And I just hope for the people who are listening to this, who support Coffee Combos, who listen to Barely Famous, who listen to Southern Tea and all other shows that are on killer that just because baby mamas ended does not mean that there cannot be great content for the people who are subscribed to that feed. And I think they're going to be very surprised at what you and Becky have planned.
And I'm excited to see it. And I hope that people can give grace where grace should be given and Becky should not be targeted in any way is not a replacement of a co-host baby mama's ended.
That show is gone. And all of those assets were turned over to kill rightfully.
So willingly. Um, I also would like to say that I do think that I brought most of that following to baby mamas.
And so to say that she built 50% of it and Becky is capitalizing off of something that V built 50% of is not fair to say. I do not agree with that.
I don't think that it was 50-50 across it. V and I's business, she got 50% of the profit, but she did not bring 50% to the table.
And so there are very different things. And I agree with you.
I don't think that, and I also don't like that Alessandra is being pulled into it either because prior to all of this, Alessandra has been working for us for three years. And so, and her and V had a private conversation about her working for Killer before all of this transpired.
So I also don't want her to be brought into this because that's also not fair. And V and Lindsay have no beef as far as I'm aware.
Becky and V have no beef as far as I'm aware. And Alessandra and V are still friends.
I do see a world where I can work through my resentment and my feelings. And I absolutely will be addressing this in therapy as soon as I get back home, because this is something that is consuming me in full transparency.
I hate, I'm never going to say that ever again after this episode, but in, in all actuality and in, in, in truth, this is consuming me. It's, I think about it every single day, not even just a little bit of the day, but it's, it's taking up my day and I need to work through this in therapy.
And I say all that to say that I do think that there is a world where V and I can still work together in a capacity that Killer supports Vibin. I support Vibin.
I support Alessandra and V individually, but I do think that there needs to be at some point a conversation about – I think it needs to be acknowledged by V so that she understands where I'm coming from. And I just don't think because we haven't had – all of the things that I've said to her have never – like she hasn't ever really said anything back.
And I think sometimes people process things very differently and maybe she does not know what to say or how to say it. Have you ever been at just like a loss for words? And I think that might be what she might be experiencing and I don't want to speak for her.
Well, she has disagreed with a lot but never really given her position or it's like – it's sort of like when someone has a problem with every single thing being done or said, but comes up with no solutions. It's like, I'm going to fight you on every single one of these things, but I'm not offering any solutions and I'm not offering any middle ground.
So that's where we're at. And I do think that there is a world where we could work together in a way that I'm helping vibe in, but I just think that right now we need space and I absolutely need to work through this in therapy.
I also just want to say as far as people saying that, and I've seen comments, people saying that the subscribership for baby mamas was robbed by a new podcast. That is absolutely not true.
And people have to understand that KLMV made a collective decision to end a business very abruptly with contracts that are in place. And there's a lot of backend things that people do not see in podcasting.
And I think that grace needs to very much be given there. There also was an entire Facebook group that was created for that show and everything was turned over and will be turned over to karma and chaos.
And you're moving forward in the best way that you know how. And you have also personally said to me that you are perfectly fine being able to address what you need to address in therapy and support vibing on killer.
100%. Well, I think that some people just choose to be angry at anything that they can be angry about projection it's kind of like a like we said earlier in this episode that if someone is committed to hating you there is you could go out and hang a fucking moon it's not going to change their perspective about you because their commitment is to hating you i found a quote um sort of recently that really just put me in my feels.
And so I'm going to read it to end this episode. Y'all go subscribe to The Southern Tea, also to vibe it and kind of thrive in.
And Coffee Convos airs every Thursday. Patreon has the visuals of all of these episodes.
This says, create the villain, enable the villain, praise the villain, then punish the villain for being a villain. Absolutely love that.
As Kale says many times in this episode, full transparency. We are going into 2025 fully transparent.
For those of you who listen to Coffee Combos, I will be discussing next Thursday the actual truth behind my co-parenting

situation and my sex life with my ex-husband. So if you guys would like to listen, that will be

next Thursday, wherever you get your pods. I love reality TV on Pluto TV.

Same.

And I love that it's free.

It gives me the freedom to watch Bravo's Real Housewives Vault Channel.

I'm totally free to watch Bad Girls Club.

I'm free for Jersey Shore.

Love and hip hop, I'm free all day.

Survivor, I'm free all night.

With hundreds of free reality shows,

you are totally free to watch what you love on

Pluto TV. Pluto TV.

Stream now. Pay never.

I'm Laura Lee.

And I'm Manny Amiouye. We're OG

social media influencers, beauty gurus,

and absolute besties.

And we host full coverage. We dish

anything and everything pop culture,

all the hottest tea, the juiciest

gossip, beauty and fashion advice, and

Thank you. And absolute besties.
And we host full coverage. We dish anything and everything pop culture, all the hottest tea, the juiciest gossip, beauty and fashion advice.

And we literally have the best celeb guests. So follow, rate, and review your new favorite podcast full coverage with us, Laura Lee and Manny MUA on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.