Coming Together As A United Front

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Things are going to get weird.

It's your fave villain, Kale Wally. And you're listening to Barely Famous.
all right welcome back to another episode of barely famous podcast we have a guest that you guys know and love happy maraquin welcome to barely famous again thanks happy to have you before we before we get to the reason why Barely Famous today, I want to start at the beginning with our story and then also how Lauren got involved, how Elijah is here, turning points in our dynamic. And then we'll get into, I hate to call it an announcement because I don't think that's what it is, but the reason you're here.
Um, so, and also before we get attacked for us not working and having real jobs for those of the listeners who don't know, you've been in the military for 13 years, 12 years. So you joined in what year? 2012, December of 2012.
Okay. And then from there, you got stationed in Delaware.
Yep. And that's how we ended up here in Delaware.
And you don't want to get out. I do not.
It's going to be a full career and 20 years. Yeah, I've worked too hard and I got eight years left till my retirement.
So I think I've made it far enough where I kind of have to ride it out. Yeah, no, for sure.
And I understand that, but there are people who think that you don't work. Yeah.
There's people that don't even know I'm still in the military. What do you do? React to comments like that or do you just kind of let it roll off? I don't care.
Do people in the military react to you having been on TV? Um, my friends, I mean, they crack jokes here and there, but they don't. Yeah.
I mean, it's been so far. I don't even know because I'm in a whole new career than when I started when I first went okay so and then you being in Delaware for as long as we we have is sort of unheard of or what do you because I think what the stigma is or what people know about the military is that a lot of people move all the time and it's usually like a two-year rotation right like you're

stationed somewhere for two years you move so on and so forth yeah my first six years were active duty and then I got out because I didn't want to move in that time I opened up the gym and then I went into the reserve side of the house and then a guy that came to my gym he offered me a job back in active duty and he was like I can put you back you can stay here in Delaware. So I was like, okay, can't pass that up.
And then since then, from year six to 12 now, I've exhausted all my positions in Delaware that I could take and stay here. And what's the difference between active duty and reserves? Active duty was full-time and reserve is part-time essentially.
So you went from full-time to part-time to full-time again? Yes, exactly. But you worked pretty much every job you possibly can in Delaware.
So now what did they do? They came to you and they were like, it's time for you to go? Or how does that, what does that look like? Yeah, they would have. They would have said, Hey, it's time.
If you want to stay in this, so I'm recruiting now. So if you want to stay in recruiting, stay in this to grow and you need to you can't do the same basically we're all we're all capped out so once you're in this job you're capped out at three years that's when i was started in dover i was like okay well can i take the newark spot newark delaware for those that don't know they gave me newark and i now i'm capped out here so there's no other place no other job i can So even if a recruiter does a good job in the area they're at, they still have to move.
Yes. Why? Because if you're doing a good job in this area, they want to see you grow.
Okay, well, go do it over here. Okay.
So what was, I actually got, we talked, I think, last year at this point, or I guess it would have been the year before. I don't really remember.
And we talked and you were like, hey, like, I think it's about to be that time where we're gonna have to move yeah and i had said that depending on where you went that i would attempt to try to go as well because i couldn't picture um a life for lincoln any other way than 50 50. so at that time i didn't know if i thought it was real or if it was like oh you guys have that you want to move.
I didn't really know what that looked like. And then you and I didn't talk about it again for a long time.
So I just sort of put it in the back of my mind and never thought about it again. So fast forward to, you know, you, you have two more kids are with Lauren, and 2024.
I mean, for for people who have watched Teen Mom, they know that the dynamics between myself and Javi and myself and Lauren and Javi have been a little rocky, I would say. And, you know, fast forward to 2024, we go to Spain for the kids to play soccer.
And I felt like that was a little bit of a turning point for the relationship as parents. Would you agree with with that yeah I mean we were in a situation where we were just kind of forced to spend more time than we either one of us thought we were going to I mean I didn't think you know you and your hotel situation ended up being the way it did and then you ended up in the same hotel so we were kind of stuck in the same place so we're gonna going to, you know, make the best of it for the kids' sake.
I mean, we traveled 10 hours to Madrid. We're not going to make it crap.
Yeah. I mean, I think that was the first time that Lauren and I were able to be in the same place at the same time and have a conversation and be there for the kids without any outside opinions, conversations, anything like that.
And then you got to spend time maybe unintentionally with Elijah, which actually worked out, I feel like to benefit the kids. I got really sick.
I had strep throat and you, Lauren and Elijah took the kids outside to go play soccer. And I saw y'all from my hotel room.
Like I looked down at the field and you guys were all playing. And I thought that was really cool because I guess I just never, I didn't know what to expect for Spain in general.
And then I also didn't know what to expect with everyone in such close proximity. So I think it really ended up being pretty cool.
Right? Like you and Elijah got along. Yeah, for sure.
I mean, we definitely got along. I mean, hey, let's make the best of this and let's figure this out.
And it worked in Madrid. It worked in Madrid.

I think you spent more time with Elijah than I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How do you feel now? Good. I mean, Lincoln's with you guys half the time, so it was nice to spend some quality time and see who this man is around Lincoln.
And how did you feel about Lauren and I getting along in Spain uh it was nice I mean it was it was fine I mean I'm glad like I said I'm glad we were everyone was able to put all the difference there's a lot of there was a lot throughout the years that everyone went through so it was I mean for that trip it was good that we were all able to just put it behind us and hey we're here let's cheer on the kids let's all go let's figure this out right so it was good so how do you feel today about it uh a little mixed if I'm gonna be honest with you okay tell me why It it's hard right because we i thought we're at a place where we were good in madrid um and then you know we come home and you know things were said and i had to send you an email the week after so for us it was like damn we just had this good week we thought we were turning a leaf and here we are back to back to where we knew where we were yeah so that's why for me it's just kind of i want to make sure that boundary line is not that we've crossed it for years right we i think we figured out that boundary line but i want to make sure the civil i don't know how to put it into words the civilness or the us being able to say hello to each other is strictly for Lincoln at that point so I don't know how to say the words but that's how I feel it was just like man we were here come back home and it's back to back to what we thought it was so when we got back from Spain for anyone who's listening and doesn't know I was having a conversation and I had said something on the podcast I also thought that I was speaking so vaguely that I didn't think that people would know what I was talking about and so on in some ways for me to say in the first place I thought okay nobody will know I literally and I'm not ashamed to admit that I literally left you a voicemail sobbing because I was so upset over it and I don't know if Lauren ever heard it or if y'all ever listened to it, but like, I was truly sobbing so upset beside myself. And I, I remember calling the producers of the show and I was like, you know, we made so much progress.
Like, how could I let this happen? So I still stand by that. Like I, to this day, I mean, Lauren's here, you're here and I'm sorry.
Like I'm telling you to your face because I just, I was kicking myself for it because I shouldn't, it's hard because when people tell me to get a real job and they, you know, they say this, that, and the third, I'm like, well, I have been paid to talk about my life for 15 years now. And so that adds a very complicated layer for me and I have to tread lightly.
And so in order to engage in conversations on my podcast, whether it be with Lindsay or Becky or whoever, it is very hard for me. So I try to make them vague.
And then I forget that people that are in my life and in the situation know that it's about them. Does that make sense? So I'm not justifying it by any means.
I'm just trying to explain for the listeners or anyone to understand where hobby is coming from, because I do think that it's fair for you to have those feelings, is that, you know, we made progress and I was the reason why we took a step back from that progress. And, um, it, I would, I would agree with you when you say it's a little, did you say it was complicated or mixed emotions? Yeah.
I just feel like I always have to have my guard up. Like I feel like when, like in Madrid, madrid okay we put it down hey let's have a good time we went to the amusement park together and hey if lex wants to stay you know stuff like that so i feel like when we let our guard down or me i'll speak for me specifically when i let my guard down and it's like damn we're here and since you brought that up i don't want to cut you off so i'm trying to think of my thoughts as you come so it's like in that instance when you're saying what you did it's like you were saying you're trying to say it vaguely so that you didn't think other people would understand it but i know who you're talking about so i know it's me so even if other people don't know what you're talking about i do so for me it's like damn if we're taking steps forward can i make an example so it makes all make sense wawa for example for me i feel like that's a running joke that I hear constantly from you, from your friends.

So I get it.

You know, you got a job and it's funny to you.

But for me, that caused a lot of pain between us.

It caused a lot of pain in my life, my personal life, with my family.

So for me to constantly hear jokes coming from you, I just feel like it's disrespectful for me.

I'm thinking we're all, we might be coming together but we're we're we're level so anytime I hear those types of jokes it's like damn you might not specifically be shooting them at me but but it just it it sparks outside world of this is still funny or Javi still did that years ago when it's like that is behind me for you know I made all this work to get it behind me so stuff like that just frustrates me so that's why coming here it's uncomfortable it's just like I took myself out of the tv world for a long time and it's just it just sucks I think that's fair I mean I didn't know the wah-wah jokes were like I don't ever think of them just in terms of you I mean, well, this is fucked up. I wrote about Wawa in my first book in 2014 about something that occurred there.
And then I also talked to my podcast about something that happened with Wawa. So like, for me, it's more than that.
It's just like, just the fact that people associate me with Wawa, it's never directed at you. Like it never has been, at least on my end, you'll be glad to know that Wawa is out officially and Royal Farms is in so we are we are very much gonna be downplaying all the Wawa stuff so that's out so if that's any consolation to you and I don't want to disrespect you in any way and I want this to be especially with the things that are about to happen I definitely want to respect you and respect that so now that I know that I'm not going to participate in wah-wah jokes and you have my word on that.
And so does Lauren and so does everyone in this room. So, you know, moving forward, I won't do that.
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I have some questions that I, you know, those like crazy 3am your mind is racing kind of questions. Um, aside from Spain and the Wawa conversation, right and And feeling mixed emotions, right? How do you think that we have done both you and me, but then also Lauren and Elijah have done collectively as co parents for the last year or two? Yeah, co parents specifically, I think it's been great.
I mean, I think it's, I think Madrid, I think it was important. Actually, I think it was important.
You saw the way Lauren was with just the kids in general. And then vice versa.
It was important for me to see how Elijah was. I mean, I've never heard him say more than two words prior to Madrid.
So to be in Madrid, no offense, but like he's just a quiet guy. So like when we're in Madrid and, you know, being able to play soccer, I didn't even know he knew how to play sports.
Not that he's not athletic, but, you know, it was cool to be in that environment where i know lincoln is okay on the other side i mean i because it was always hey i have to trust whoever you bring into his life that you're making the right decision and same thing for me so to be able to see that firsthand i think that's where it was good for everybody to see everyone interacting with other kids so i think co-parenting wise it's fine if i need something for lincoln hit you up a light and then Lajon will bring it and there's no awkwardness I don't think there's no and vice versa I don't think you've needed anything from Lauren but I'm sure if you did I don't know but I'm sure if you did I'm sure it'll be fine yeah I mean I it felt good knowing that I didn't have anything to worry about and not that I really ever did I think it was always like we were really young when you and I were married and divorced. We were very young.
And I think that we, you and I don't get a lot, a lot of grace for that. Like, I think that people still want to hold our past against us.
And, you know, people want to remember us how we used to be and not now. And I think that, you know, seeing it all firsthand, you and Lauren together with the kids and, you know, you guys have welcomed Lux in, you know, to go to the amusement park and stuff or stay at the amusement park.
It was really nice for me because at one point you texted in a group chat and was like, Oh God, what'd I say? What are you about to say? No, it was with Elijah. And you said something along the line, like, I didn't know Elijah could run like that or something or play soccer like that.
Like, I think it surprised you. And so it was just, it was nice that, because I was sick, so I couldn't even be down there.
And so it was just, yeah, oh yeah, sorry, just to be clear. We're talking about Spain.
And so you had, you said you didn't know Elijah could play like that. And I don't know, it felt good for me too, because our dynamic is so different than, you know, what our dynamic used to be.
And so Elijah getting involved with the kids that way and playing out on the soccer field with you guys i think lauren was out there it was nice for me too because he wants to be a part of the crew i think you know with with being a sports parent but because our dynamic is different with the babies and things like that he doesn't get to go to all the stuff and so it was nice for me to see him interact with with you and Lauren and the kids. So I say all that to say that I think that Spain really opened my eyes.
And I think that was a turning point for me and how I felt about Lauren and making sure that Lincoln's best interest is always top of mind. I think prior to Madrid, we were struggling with Lincoln because he thought all four of us were always clashing.
Yeah. And so he got away with or tried to get away with a couple of things, doing things differently here, coming to our house and saying and doing things differently so that me and you would clash and be like, well, he's saying this.
He's saying this over here. So, OK, so, you know, so then I think Madrid helped that and being OK, well, four of them are getting along.
So I don't know if getting along, but all four of them are, have my best interest. So we're trying to get Lincoln.
In my experience with co-parenting, with Joe, with you, with Chris, I definitely, and I don't want to speak for all kids. I just want to speak for like my situations.
I have noticed that when you and I are on the outs, Lincoln knows. We don't have to say anything.
He doesn't have to hear anything, but he knows. Same for Isaac.
When Joe and I aren't getting along, Isaac knows. And I think that human nature, whether the child knows they're doing it or not, subconsciously will pit them against each other to see what they can get away with.
And I think that's a common theme from what I've read online too. Like it is common.
It's not uncommon for kids to do that, but I definitely think that you and I have done a pretty good job tackling that once we see it starting to bubble up. Yeah.
And I think for the, since Spain, I've seen a change in Lincoln, like not worried. Um um he did know that I was coming to record with

you today he's like am I in trouble because he he was like you guys get together when I'm in trouble and I'm like no we're always going to be united for you but it's nothing you have to worry about you're not in trouble and he was like oh okay so he you know he feels better but um how do you feel I mean I kind of already asked you but how do you feel today about Elijah, towards Elijah? Good. I mean, with what's going to go down, I mean, I feel like a bigger layer of trust has to be there.
And I genuinely, you know, I'm at peace and I'm okay knowing that Lincoln has him and he's going to be okay. Right.
Okay. I think that's fair.
Where do you think we could improve as co-parents co-parents specifically well we're only co-parents yeah no I just mean like if we could just avoid the the talking on the you know the jokes and stuff like that I think it would co-parenting is an issue jokes on the podcast or jokes in life no no on the podcast just like about like past stuff no no yeah we don't joke like no no I just mean like the past because it's hard for me I tell you like well I don't tell you all the time but like when I hear those jokes it's hard for me to then okay I have to go so we have to go be nice at basketball or soccer you know the kids played soccer on the same team this year so it was like you know it was just hard for me so Eli and Lex are on the same well they played on the same team and I was coaching them. So, yeah, it was just, yeah.

Are you aware of how much Lux looks up to you? Like, do you know? Even after the soccer team, Lauren said I was mean. Lauren said I'm a mean coach.
Did he tell you? No, I've never heard that, but, I mean, he looks up to you a lot. So I was a little nervous about playing like for you because I've only ever seen you coach Lincoln um and Eli and Lux love each other like they get along they always have so even when things were rocky it would be like a little bit awkward at like games and stuff because they would be playing and none of us wanted to talk to each other and so it was um and I don't know if Spain was the reason but I I felt more comfortable with, you know, Lux being on the same team as Eli and, you know, playing for you.
And now they're on another team playing together. And I feel pretty good about it.
And I think that we can, you know, keep those boundaries in place while they get to be kids on the same soccer team. Yeah.
Do you feel the same? Yeah, yeah. I mean, the past team, it kind of took me back to, like, the MOT days where, like, everything was just kind of clashed.
And it was, like, one, I realized coaching that team, I do not like coaching at all. Why? Too much stress, too much high expectations I've been told, and sometimes my voice, the way I come or come across the field like it's just very I just think I'm loud and I'm positive but I've been told it doesn't come off that way I don't know so it's just you know I never want to make a kid feel bad but it's just I have maybe I'm just I don't know high standards I don't know I'm not doing it anymore I'm done I'm done coaching you're not even going to coach Eli no okay I for the best.
You guys know what's in the best interest of Eli, so I won't even go there. Eli won't let me anyway.
Maybe Lauren should coach. Yeah.
So she feels what I feel. That all being said, your time in Delaware has come to an end.
And so you're moving out of Delaware this summer. What does that look like for you? And what was the decision making process there? Like, how did you decide where you're going, when you're moving out of Delaware this summer.
Yeah. What does that look like for you? And what was the decision-making process there? Like, how did you decide where you're going, when you're going, et cetera? How did it look like for me in, like, a professional standpoint? Yeah.
So you're going to continue recruiting, I'm assuming? Yeah. Some of us, too.
Okay. Yeah.
Basically, what happened was we already kind of touched on it. My time was coming up.
So it was like, okay, well, where can I go? What are my are my options so Virginia came up and after talking about it with Lauren we felt like that was probably best case scenario they didn't know what was gonna happen with Lincoln we thought worst case scenario were at least driving distance we don't have to jump on a plane or anything like that so it was hey take virginia or when your time does come up when your three-year mark hits you're gonna get whatever is whatever is on the table so it could have been like minot north dakota yeah it could have been california whatever was on the table at that time so i wouldn't have i would have to pick out of the whatever's on there knowing that there could be an even closer base at that time like you picked Virginia, but like you didn't want to risk whether it was a closer one or one that's even further away. Right.
Like if say when you're when you're three years came up, you could have been like, oh, you're going to be closer because. So how it works is positions come out every month.
So you see who's applying. You see who gets those positions.
So the Maryland and New Jersey just got there. So I knew they had three years there at least at a minimum before those positions would open up again.

So I was like, okay, well, that's taking me off the board for those.

So what's left?

And then it was like, well, Virginia's coming up.

And I was like, okay, well, that's the next closest.

That's probably the best case scenario.

So I didn't want to take that risk of waiting to the end of either deciding, hey, we're moving to wherever or I got to get out.

And I don't think getting out was an option for me.

Was this decision influenced at all by creating more distance between you and me or Elijah and myself and you and Lauren?

No, this is strictly professional work wise.

I mean, the military has done so many good things for all of us. I mean, it pays for Lincoln's health insurance.
It'll pay for some of his school when he gets there. I've been in for 12 years.
I've worked too hard to get to where I'm at as far as rank and all that stuff where I'm sitting at the table. I'm really good at it.
No, for sure. And I don't want to dismiss that you're good at your job.
I just didn't know if the thought process behind leaving earlier than, you know, your three year mark was, OK, this would create distance between between the families, basically. No, the thought process decision making was strictly.
Hey, I need to take my career into my own hands before they tell me this is all you got left. Right.
Because I mean, you had in there I mean that would create a whole new situation if you if you would have went I would have been way different than what we came to a plane ride would have just yeah that would have exacerbated any pain that we're already going through yeah that would have been tough so when you let me know that you were going to Virginia we sort of I don't want to say went at it because I don't think we argued about it, but it was definitely, did we? We went at it. Okay.
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Um, I don't think it could have gone any other way. Like, I don't think that there, yes, we went at it,

but I don't think that there was going to be an easier conversation.

Like, there was no way to make it any easier.

So we disagreed, I think, on several occasions about what was going to happen.

And so.

So, like, when I brought it to you, obviously, the initial emotions and all that kicking in.

Everyone's angry.

Okay, let's let it dust off.

And then how'd

you feel or what was your mind what did you think because i told you basically i wanted lincoln i think i told you i wanted lincoln for the school here or i might not say that but i told you i thought lincoln was not better because this is a shitty situation it's not like you have two shitty parents and it's it's it's a no-brainer right he he deserves to parent more than this parent, right? I feel like it was down the middle.

I simply just took it as I thought my connection with Lincoln

was a little bit more crucial at the age he's at to be with me.

I don't want to say more important.

It was more crucial to be with me now for the next three years

or whatever than it was to stay.

So that was my standpoint, and that's how I was looking at it when I approached you. How'd you feel? I also felt that way.
I felt like given his age, because we started having this conversation when he was 10. So my thought process was, okay, this will be an entirely different conversation at 10 and 13.
So my thought was, okay, if he goes, he gets stationed somewhere, Lincoln stays with me. And at 13, we would basically reevaluate the situation.
And if he said, I want to go live with my dad, I just think it would be a different conversation. So that's sort of where we basically were thinking the same thing, in my opinion.
And so, and I think that both of us are valid in our feelings. I think both of our points are valid.
I think that, and I agree with you that, I mean, Lincoln has only ever known 50-50. This has always been, and if you ever wanted a week on my time, I'd give it to you and vice versa.
So we've always worked together in that way. And so when you're going to court for relocation and you have two parents that are always doing what's in the best interest of their children, and we don't really, like co-parenting for us.
I feel like, I don't want to say it's been easy. That's I don't, because it hasn't been easy, but we always put Lincoln first.
So when you have two parents that are both doing their very best, it's so hard. And I just, I couldn't imagine putting that in a judge's hands.
Like I couldn't. So when we, we were in Disney, Elijah and I took the kids to disney when we had our i guess it was like a case review or like a pre-trial you and me with um the judge yeah and the judge was just like he was brutal he was he was i was very discouraged after that call i'm not gonna lie i was very discouraged well after that call i was like i think i told lauren i was like this this sucks i'm not gonna get nothing this judge is like, what is it? Well, me and you butted heads.
Let's backtrack a little bit, if you don't mind. Yeah, yeah, of course.
Me and you butted heads because you felt, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Lincoln shouldn't have been involved. Maybe, what was it? Like, you didn't want me to tell him or you didn't want him to know? Something like that.
I did not want you to tell him when you told him. And I thought that we were on the same page about telling him at the same, like we were going to be together when we told him.
So when you told it, you were like, you emailed me and you were like, I'm telling him. I was really upset by that.
Because we are so good. I just felt like if we were, if we were united about it, whatever that looks like, it would have just set a better example.
Cause I think at that point he thought that we were kind of going against each other and I didn't know if he knew how to feel about it. And I didn't want him to feel like, Oh, I'm when I'm at my dad's, I want to tell my dad, I think he wants to hear that.
I want to go with him. But then when I'm at my mom's, I think she wants to hear that I want to stay with her.
And so that's what I was afraid of. I'll be honest with you.
I think that is what set the judge off that you told him. Fair.
Well, yeah, that's what he said. But where I was coming from with that was my path of moving forward with custody was going to be based off of his answer, right? And so if he would have said, it was either school year or summer, because let's get that.
I think both of our attorneys said, hey, this is, this is no other way to do this. Yeah, this is the baseline.
So one parent's going to get school, one parent's going to get summer, we'll figure out the holidays. So it was like, okay, that's at a minimum.
So it was like, okay, Link, this is the situation. It wasn't if I'm moving.
It's this is I'm moving. How do you feel about it? This is it.
School year, where do you want to go? Because based off of his answer was going to be my driving factor of, hey, is this even a fight I'm going to put up? Or if he says, hey, I want to stay with my mom. Okay, well, then what am I fighting for? If you don't want to come with me, that's how I took.
So if he said that then I don't need it why am I going to spend thousand dollars on an attorney and put this in the judge's hand so for me when he was like no I want to go with you and it's hard I get it he's telling you one thing he wants to stay with you he's telling us he wants to go with us and I can only I can't imagine the emotions and feelings an 11 year old is going through so for him to say hey I want to go with you I was like okay well I'm going to do everything I can. It the emotions and feelings that an 11 year old is going through.

So for him to say, hey, I want to go with you, it's like, okay, well, I'm going to do everything

I can.

It's just a pain that is, this is a feeling that it's a shitty feeling for everybody.

It sucks because he cries with me and he cries with you.

It was the same, right?

So he would go to sleep and I'm just like, hey, are you okay?

You know, and he'll just start crying and I want to go with you.

And I know, I know, let me handle that. I'm doing everything I can where you just got to let it ride out.
And so that was my driving force as to why I thought I needed to tell Lincoln. And then when we get with the judge, he was like, oh, well, why does he even tell him or something like that? I'm like, I just don't get it.
I don't understand it. Am I at my attorney? No, how can I, how can you not, Lincoln's not Lux or Creed's age, right? I get that.
If they're that little, Lincoln's 11 or 10 at the time, whatever he was. How can you not get his opinion on it? I didn't want to get his opinion on it at his age, even 11, because I do think that,

because he was breaking down to me, you know, and, and not to put all of Lincoln's business

out there, but he was breaking down to me about wanting to stay. And then, and then towards like

closer to now, not right now, but closer to now it's, he, I, I think he's torn because we're back to being okay. Like you and I are getting along.
We're co-parenting. Everyone's copacetic.
I think that closer to now, cause he, we haven't talked about it in a long time. I think that he's, it maybe hasn't sunk in for him.
Like he doesn't realize what's about to happen. But I, my apprehension about telling him at his age was that it was going to weigh in on him the way that it did, right? Like it played out exactly how I thought it would, which was that he was going to cry to you and also cry to me about staying and leaving.
He's never had to make a choice, right? Like he's never had to choose between parents. And that was sort of, I think what the judge was getting at was like, we're putting adult decisions on him so young, right?

Like it wasn't like asking a 13 year old who's about to go to high school. It was asking, you know, a fourth, fifth grader how, what they want.
And I just think at that point, maybe we could have gone to him and say, hey, this is what we're doing and not really giving him the choice. because if he feels like the choice is up to him,

he knows that he's going to disappoint one of us

by not saying what one of us wants to hear does that make sense am i making sense but correct me if i'm wrong we couldn't get with him together because we didn't agree on what each other wanted i can't i can't remember like i thought we argued because yeah well i don't because i i remember we couldn't tell him together because we weren't agreeing on something I don't remember exactly I think it was that I think it was like oh yeah I think you you didn't want to tell him and I did I said well I'm gonna tell him he's my son you know I think that might have been it yeah so I was very discouraged after that the judge came in and he was hot and he was I don't think I don't think-military, but he was just like, oh, well, he's going to move.

And I felt very discouraged. I do think that if it went to trial, it would have been a lot harder for the judge to decide once he sees, okay, both of these parents are perfectly fine.
They're perfectly capable. They're financially sound.
They're emotionally there. They're physically, you know what I mean? I think that it would have been a very hard decision for him to make.
So and I'm not I don't want to speak for the judge because I don't know him but being that you

were the one to move and it it's sort of the closest option I think if I had to guess maybe

that's why he was thinking that way like okay you're moving it's close it's within driving

distance we can make this work yeah well I thought I was losing the battle and not to put it in that

tense but I thought when we went met at mediation I felt kind of backed in a corner honestly I mean

Thank you. thought I was losing the battle and not to put it in that tense, but I thought when we met at mediation, I felt kind of backed in a corner.
Honestly, I'm being honest. I felt like I was at a corner.
I remember I called Lauren crying saying this, I have to take it. If it goes to a judge, I'm going to lose.
If it goes to a judge, it's going to be worse. And we can get into the details of that.
We don't fast forward, but I thought I felt like I was in a corner by the time we met in that mediation room how do you feel now conflicting part of me doesn't understand so we agreed in one year whatever Lincoln says that's kind of right so it was like how does one year different one year make that much of a difference that that's what you fought for I think it's you're does that make sense well for me yeah I it makes sense. I understand what you're saying but I think for me it's you guys have never lived there.
Don't know if you're gonna like it. If there is a possibility for you to leave at any point after you get there and you're like we hate it here, what if you guys decide that you're gonna come back? That's like my...
not that I wish on your downfall and Lauren please don't take it that way. I'm talking to both of you.
It's like, I don't wish on your downfall, but like in a perfect world, I want Lincoln to have 50, 50 until he graduates high school. Right.
Like that for me, it's like, okay, what if you guys go and you hate it? And I'm never going to say that to Lincoln, but you know, and second to that is, you know, I do think it's a different conversation when he's a little bit older. That is sort of where I'm at.
And we talked about how he's in the same school this year and he'll be in the same school next year at the point that he's done with school in sixth grade and transitioning anyway. I think it makes more sense.
And I also think that I do understand that a father's presence in a boy's life or a young man's life is very important. But I also think that there is a very small window for some mother son relationships to sort of develop a little bit.
And so I, my hope is that I will have, you know, if he decides at the end of next year that he wants to go with you, I will feel confident in our insecure that our relationship is secure no matter what. And so that when he leaves to go with you, like it's not going to change anything between us.
And so I think that one extra year for me and him will be beneficial to not just me, but to him. And, and I know that you guys have your, your bond and you guys bond over sports and, you know, I know Lauren's into sports and things like that.
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Just use the code FAMOUS at checkout. Yeah.
I mean, I struggle. Part of my argument before we even went to mediation was I struggle with, I told you, your career.
So the way the custody is written out here is you'll have them school year I don't know if you want to say talk details but you'll have you'll have them school year I'll have them summer and then all the holidays and three days in between so it's like okay you're gonna be the primary but just like I'm putting my career you know this is what I gotta do for my career same? You're busy, you know, your network and everything's blowing up, which is great. But for you to want that bond, how are you going to do that? At the point that I knew that you were moving and I'm not going to have 50-50, I also don't have 50-50 with Lux and Crete either.
So this sort of opened my eyes to, I have to scale back my travel. So there's no other option.
And I try to do it when I, you know, if there's a three day weekend and I know that the kids are going to be with you or with Chris or, you know, whatever that looks like, that's when I try to do my three day. Obviously it's not always going to pan out that way, but I try to make sure that I'm in and I'm out.
I'm not flying. I'm not getting on planes.
I'm not touring. I'm, I canceled all my tour dates for the first six months of the year.
I, this opened my eyes because I said, okay, well, at the end of the day, my relationship with my son comes first and co-parenting with you has to come second in a circumstance like this. So, um, you know, I say all that to say that we both have to do what we have to do for our careers.
And I don't think that either one of us can expect the other one to, you know, just get out of the military or traveling altogether right because at the end of the day we have to have these finances in order to be able to put Lincoln first and to be able to come together to do all of this stuff so I mean I don't want to say that I'm hopeful that you guys aren't going to like it but I just maybe there's a chance you'll come back there's nowhere for me to come back to that's the problem there's nowhere for me to come back if There's nowhere for me to come back to. That's the problem.
There's nowhere for me to come back to. If there was, would you come back? Man.
Would you consider it? Recruiting, it's, yeah, I mean, everything's always up for consideration. I mean, hey, we'll give you a strike, you know, E8 if you take Dover or, you know, stuff like that.
I don't know, you know, only my ball. There's a career path for me.
And what that looks like, I don't know yet. I just know right now I got to go crush it in Virginia.
Right? So I know right now the next time in my career is, hey, we know you're going to go crush it in Virginia. Go crush it in Virginia.
That's what we need you to do right now. Okay, so once Virginia's up, what's next? Where do you guys need me? Right? And so that's where I struggle and I and honestly for you right

it's and same for me I gotta be okay with it too is Lincoln's gonna come to an age

where the custody we have he's not gonna want to go back and forth right so

can I cut you off right there sure I don't know about that because I mean even Isaac who I would

for for a short while there he wanted to be with me full-time right but he flat out told me that even though he wants to be with me full-time he's never gonna not go to his dad's like he doesn't ever want to do that to his dad right so i mean it's possible that he maybe maybe it's not exactly 50 50 yeah but at the point that he's driving and he's able to go back and forth kind of as he sees fit. But I'm seeing it more of like getting older and puberty and girls and friends and like, you know, the custody, damn, every holiday, I got to go to Virginia or I got to go back to Delaware when like I got friends here.
Like, I don't even get to spend the summer with my friends here or I don't get to see vice versa. So he's going to get to an age where we're going to have to come back together and say, hey.

And even with the current custody, it might be a lot on him.

So, yeah, we did the best we could and gave each other what we thought was best case scenario.

But it might be a lot on him to travel.

And he might say, hey, this is a lot of travel.

I mean, you've got to come back together and say, hey, this is putting a toll on him.

What would you do if I emailed you guys tomorrow and said i'm filing to relocate to virginia that's almost impossible like let's be i'm just asking but like that's a hypothetical that's not gonna happen like no i'm saying how would you feel about it how would you feel if i said because i feel like there has to be some some excitement about just getting away from the situation and not crossing paths ever, right? So how would you feel about that? Would you be okay with it for Lincoln or would you be like, oh, no, that's too close for comfort? Not even too. But like Virginia's not going to be forever home.
So not only is it impossible for your custody with all the kids you have, why would you follow? You know, you're following me. Why would you do that? For Lincoln.
And I told my lawyer this and she was not really thrilled about it, but I was like, I cannot imagine a world without 50-50 for Lincoln. That is where I'm coming from.
I already don't have 50-50 with Lux and Creed, right? Elijah was already stationed where you're going. He was already there.
So to me, I was like, okay, well, is it a, is it a far stretch for me to say, okay, well then I, and Chris doesn't live in Delaware. So he's already out of the state.
So my thought was, okay, could I make it work where I relocate to Virginia so that Lincoln still, I can't imagine one, my household without him and to, you know, not him, not having 50, 50. So that was sort of my thought process.
And my attorney was like, that is not realistic for you. But that's where my mind went for Lincoln because why not? That's sort of where I was at.
I mean, now I know based on how the judge reacted, it's not going to go well for me either if I tried, no matter where it was, Virginia, New Jersey, no matter what, I think the judge would be like, you've lost your your mind but I would be lying to you if I didn't say well that absolutely crossed my mind just so that Lincoln could have 50 50 it's not like I have 50 50 with all of them do you know do you get what I'm saying like where I'm coming from on this yeah yeah no I hear you yeah I mean not having 50 50 is looking at this tough and talking with Lincoln about it now it's like okay you know I asked him okay? How are you feeling? Because the time is getting closer. And, you know, I talked to him and said, listen, nothing's going to change.
We're going to do our best. I'm not going to be able to come every weekend and all your stuff, but I'm going to do my best to still your dad and, you know, figure it out.
So, not having 50, do you want to talk about how mediation went? Yeah. How do you think we went in there? How do you think when you went into mediation away i didn't know what was going to happen truly i didn't know that you felt backed into a corner i think when we saw all the dates on paper and looking at school year versus summer and holidays and three-day weekends it became so real to me and i don't think that there was i don't think it could have gone better but i I think it could have been significantly worse.
Well, I mean, I thought before we went up to mediation, I, for whatever reason, I was taken under the impression that you, I was going to get the school year. And just based off of, you know, things you were saying, like, oh, summer camp in Virginia, you know, I'll bring Lex.
I was like, okay. Which I I'm doing well I was just like okay well for whatever reason I was getting under the impression that okay maybe she she's you know things cooled off she's calm and I was gonna get to school year you were gonna get summer so when I went in there I thought I had a you know pretty good offer it was hey and you did hear all the dates yeah here are all the.
And you just weren't budging. Neither were you.
I mean, you were just stone cold. You were just arguing back and forth.
I was like, damn. I thought this was a good deal.
This is a sweet deal. So then when you weren't budging, I was like, okay, well, it was just mediation didn't go well.
For whatever reason, I thought it was going to go well. You don't think it went well? Yeah, at the end, because I had no choice.
But you didn't give me the decision that day. You didn't tell you you didn't give us a decision that day.
You said you were going to go think about it. And so at that point, I was like, oh, we're going to trial.
Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't know why I got that feeling.
I just thought there was things you said that I was like, OK, I felt good about it. I was like, OK, maybe we're going to go to mediation and she's going to say, you know, you take the school and I'll take the summer.
we'll figure out the holidays in between. Did you even consider it honestly? Yeah, I did.
But I think the deciding factor for the summer versus school year, which is what I was about to say anyways, is that I have 50-50 summers. If I got summers and you got school year, out of the 12 weeks in the summertime, he would only see Lux and Creed six weeks out of the entire year because I give the holidays to Joe and Chris.
So spring break, fall break if there is one, and Christmas break all go to Chris and Joe. So I'm not – even if I got Lincoln on those weeks, the brothers – his brothers wouldn't be there.
So me fighting for Lincoln during the school year was so that he could still continue to have that relationship with his brothers for right now. And I think, you know, for the time being, I think it's crucial for him not saying that Eli's not important because he absolutely is.
But I know that, you know, Lux and Lincoln have a bond as well, and he's they're closer in age. And so if you remove Lincoln from the the school year and he was only here in the summer, he's only having them, he's only going to be around them for six weeks out of the entire year.
So that was a point to consider. If Lincoln goes with you for the summertime, he has the entire summer with Eli and Maisie.
And I do understand the point that like, as he gets older and puberty and friends and, you know, driving, and I know that you don't, I've tried to bring it up to you before, but like that's going to come quick, right? So to me, I was just trying to, you know, soak up these last like year, maybe two of that, like of developing our relationship, the security in our relationships, bonding with the brothers. Because I do think that there is a very high chance, if not an almost certain chance that he will decide to go with you next year.
And so just making sure that everything is, you know, he has that extra time with his brothers for, you know, one last school year. Yeah.
And in a situation like this, it's... Nobody wins.
Nobody wins. So me getting the school year is not a win.
And I know that you might view it differently, but it's not a win. It's not a win for either of us.
And it's not a win for either of us and it's not a win for the siblings and it's not a win for Lincoln it can go both ways as far as you know you want to hit the bond with your side your kids and then same thing with him Eli is all he knows essentially he's not only enough so Eli is all he knows so to wrap my head around where hey you're not going to have him for the school year right now he knows hey when, hey, when's Bubba coming home, stuff like that. So my take in mediation was I felt like that was your driving force instead of looking at from where I was coming from of just Lincoln, what is the best case scenario for Lincoln with the parent, right? So I thought I had a strong argument of he needed to be with me, taking the kids out of it, although it is a factor in it, right? You're going to play it.
But the majority of it was which parent is going to, for this first year, be the best to help them adapt, help them transition into whatever we decided. And that's why when I went into mediation and you weren't budging, I was like, well, this sucks.
This is not how I thought it was going to go, honestly. And that's why I fell in the corner.
So when I asked you to step out with your attorney or whenever you guys went out, you know, I was crying. Oh, me too.
I went in the bathroom, bawled my eyes out. Yeah, I called Lauren and I said, this is it.
I have to take it. If it goes to a judge, I'm going to get half of what I'm getting right now.
That's how I felt. I'll get the summer, right? No judge in their right mind is going to give me every holiday.
But I pretty much did. And I just thought Lincoln getting out of Delaware was just crucial for these middle school years.
There's just, I'm excited to grow out of, get out of Delaware. I don't know if you love Delaware that much.
I don't have a choice. We're all here because of you.
And that's, I think, too, thinking about, and not that I am here to speak for Joe and his family or even V and her family, but I think us coming to Delaware has spiderwebbed into something so much bigger that none of us can control. And I don't make my don't make my day to day decisions off you and Lauren, and I don't make my day to day decisions off of Joe and V and vice versa.
Like, I don't, I can't expect you guys to make your decisions off of us, but I think that there is something to be said about what is, what we have created. Um, and that is the spiderweb.
So if you pull on the spiderweb on one side, that entire spiderweb is web is having a ripple effect, right? Because Joe moved here, his mom moved here, V moved here for Joe, V's sister just moved here. So there is so many layers to this.
And I think it's nobody's fault, right? It's just the circumstances of life and the phases of life that we're going through is like, in order to progress in your career, you have to move. But it sucks because the rest of us don't have the option to relocate.
So it's like you get to relocate and you are excited to leave. I would have left a long time ago if it was up to me because my career could soar in Atlanta, Texas, California, New York.
Like my career could have flourished, but I don't have a choice. You get the choice of leaving and we don't.
So that's sort of where it's tricky because I hear you when you say you want to get Lincoln out of here. But at the same time, Lincoln doesn't know any different.
He was born here. He's been raised here.
And so we know different. We do.
Not to cut you off. We know life is better out of Delaware.
And so like you knew whenever we got married that I was joining the military. And that was always a possibility.
I've just been lucky for 12 years that I've been blessed to be able to stay here. Joe knew that winning there.
So that can't fall on me because eventually it's kind of like breaking generational trauma. Eventually, hey, you understand the career field that I'm in.
But I don't think that they ever thought that it was a possibility that we would like say you and I stayed married. I don't think that anyone thought, I mean, your parents moved here, your sister moved here, your brother moved closer, military is different story.
But I honestly don't think that it ever crossed their mind that you could be stationed again somewhere else. But like, I'm just in facts of you saying the ripple, like, oh, his mom moved here, his sister moved here.
That's their own decisions. Right.
So like. No, of course.
No, no, no. But like, you can't.
That's not. I'm not blaming you.
I don't want it to come across as like me blaming you. What I'm saying is that you and I know that we both would have moved out of Delaware.
Right. But the circumstances didn't allow it.
Now the circumstances have allowed you to move. But the rest of us can't.
literally can't because i know after what after talking to the judge when we went to our pre-trial i understand now that i have zero slim slim to none chances of being able to move out of delaware yeah and so that just knowing how much better life would be outside of delaware that that's what i wanted to give lincoln right that's better sports i complained you about sports where we put them we've tried we've gone up and down the state trying to find just a good program just good coaches and we're driving an hour up north that didn't work out we thought it was bad we try and hear this not enough for him right so it was just for me that's how I that was part of my reasoning there's nothing in Delaware where he's thriving that he can't get equal to or better, hopefully, in Virginia. But now you have the opportunity for this next year to test it out with Eli.
Yeah. Silver linings.
In terms of co-parenting, do you think that you, Lauren, myself, and Elijah are solid enough to be doing this? We don't have a choice, but do you think that we're solid enough to do what we need to do for Lincoln over state lines? All right, you guys, thank you so much for tuning in to part one. Part two is dropping on Tuesday, and I'm super excited for you guys to hear who else is on part two.
If you could please respect and give us some grace during this time.

And also just be kind in the comments, the feedback.

We're real people with real feelings.

We're trying to come together the best we can for our son and to raise our family peacefully.

So we could just keep the comments respectful.

That would be super great.

And we'll see you on Tuesday. Thank you.
All right. I may not be as funny as Nikki laser.
I want to pitch a series of like calendars where men are just crying in a therapist office or punching a pillow and working out their anger towards their dad. But I do have my moments.
I actually have full conversations with the moon yes i try to

keep it pretty balanced on this podcast a little fun dance between comedy therapy self-medicating oh and sorry if you haven't guessed hi i'm caitlin bristow host of off the vine podcast where we like to just keep things loose and keep them raw and keep them real like when we have listeners call in and give confessions.

And then that glass of wine progressed into me becoming a unicorn for them.

But we do, and I promise you this, try to keep it honest and vulnerable. So jump on the wagon,

not off, grab your favorite bottle of wine, preferably Spade and Sparrows, and join the

Vinos. Have yourself a time.
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