Life After Lock Up - You Told the World

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Speaker 2 Welcome to the shit show.

Speaker 3 Things are going to get weird.

Speaker 2 It's your fae villain, Kale Lower.

Speaker 2 And you're listening to Barely Famous.

Speaker 2 Welcome to Barely Fucking Famous. This is a fun episode because Kristen and I are on the same resort right now, but we're in different,

Speaker 2 I don't want to call it a hotel, condos.

Speaker 3 We're in different condos.

Speaker 2 And but we were like, we have to record. Let's do it first thing in the morning, get it out of the way.

Speaker 2 Not that it's a chore, but just because we're on vacation so that we can plan for the rest of the day. And I actually forgot my laptop and I realized that.
But so that's why I'm using risks.

Speaker 2 And we're ready to dissect this fifth episode of Gypsy Rose's show.

Speaker 3 Can we talk for a second? For anybody who has no idea what we're doing, we're only dissecting the show, the reality show,

Speaker 3 Gypsy Rose, on Lifetime, not like documentaries that have occurred before this. Because a lot of people are like, they're jumbling things up.

Speaker 3 We're trying to remember the stuff that we already knew, but our specific goal here is we're just dissecting what's being aired in these episodes.

Speaker 2 It's a weekly, they air Monday. Kristen and I watch on Philo.
It's on Lifetime. I think you can stream it possibly on Hulu,

Speaker 2 but we watch on Philo. And like Kristen said, we're dissecting the reality show only.
We're not talking about anything else unless it's remembered. But I do have an update for you.

Speaker 2 On one of the episodes, you had said that you thought the Gypsy Rose was in a wheelchair at home.

Speaker 2 That was my thoughts. A lovely listener, follower,

Speaker 2 supporter of this podcast sent me some TikToks of Gypsy Rose's house while she lived with Dee Dee Blanchard.

Speaker 3 was

Speaker 2 not wheelchair friendly.

Speaker 2 My photos had shown the hoarding everywhere. And the wheelchairs, there were two or three of them, were in the corner facing the wall.
So she was, in fact, free to walk around in the house.

Speaker 3 So the only thing I want to ask about that then is did Dee D Dee chain her to her at night so she didn't run away?

Speaker 2 I think that occurred when she she did attempt. I think there was one or two attempts to run away.
And so that's when that started. But prior to that, I think it was like

Speaker 2 fair game. Like she could do whatever she wanted in the house.

Speaker 3 That's kind of crazy. Like when you think about essentially you're trying to kind of hold somebody captive to like.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it does feel a little bit like Stockholm Syndrome because you, not that she was in love with her mom, but she was. completely dependent on her mom.

Speaker 3 So even

Speaker 2 thinking she was younger, she wouldn't have access to like her birth certificate, her social security card, any of her information to leave. So, in a way, she felt like brainwashed and trapped.

Speaker 3 That makes sense. That makes sense.
So, it's like a kind of built-in, I don't want to say trust, but reliance, like survival.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So, actually, the one of the book that I read while I was on our first day here,

Speaker 2 similar situation, there was a captive that was

Speaker 2 essentially developed Stockholm syndrome. So, she was sent to go to like nursing school and like do all these things outside of the garden.
But she came back every, like, she never went to get help.

Speaker 2 She never defied, what is it, defied? Disobeyed. She never disobeyed the captor.
So I thought that was really interesting

Speaker 3 parallel.

Speaker 2 So I dissected the show a little bit in my notes and I watched this while Isaac was walking around the boardwalk.

Speaker 2 I stand by my previous statements of

Speaker 2 Gypsy being emotionally emotionally stunted and as well as her maturity being stunted.

Speaker 2 I feel like sometimes when we watch shows or documentaries or we talk about something enough, like our perspectives can change with new information.

Speaker 2 I think by episode five, I still stand by she is still stunted. Not like she was stunted and she's growing.
I feel like she's still stuck, like very much stuck in like

Speaker 2 young, young gypsy, like what we all did as teenagers or young 20-year-old adults.

Speaker 3 I was going to say, say, probably like

Speaker 3 where she

Speaker 3 left off at some part with her mom, I would say, is she's probably like mentally appears to me like 16, 17.

Speaker 2 The craziest part, I think, is that

Speaker 2 I'm constantly having to be reminded that she

Speaker 2 did this whole thing in her 20s. I don't know why it feels like she did this when she was a teenager.

Speaker 3 I think it's because we know, like, mentally she was not

Speaker 3 like actual age. Like, you know, how the twins are an adjusted age? Yeah.

Speaker 3 It kind of feels like that to me.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. Because in some ways I do see a lot of

Speaker 2 maybe it's more responsibility than maturity. I see some aspects of her, like where she's like, doesn't like clutter.
She, you know, wants to learn how to cook. She's like kind of self-sufficient.

Speaker 2 I think she learned some of of those things in prison. I think it's more responsibility than it is maturity, which is, I mean, that's growth, I guess.

Speaker 3 Probably learned more life skills in prison than she ever did with her mom. If I had 100%.

Speaker 2 And I struggled with that too. Right.
And so like, I feel like I recognize that in her. It's like, it wasn't until I was in my very own apartment because I couldn't.

Speaker 2 When I lived with Joe and I was pregnant and I was having Isaac, everything,

Speaker 2 even though I was home with him by myself during the day, like, I wasn't paying the bills, I wasn't buying the groceries, like, I wasn't doing any of that.

Speaker 2 So, it wasn't until I was on my own that I truly learned responsibility, but I was still emotionally and mentally stunted.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 yeah, definitely. Um,

Speaker 3 so in like the, you know, how in the beginning they do like the preview for like the episode that you're literally about to watch? Yeah,

Speaker 3 she says that she's never orgasmed with a partner, and she talks about her past history of SA.

Speaker 3 And I wrote down: like, so many women experience not knowing how to orgasm or how to even like get there or anything about their own bodies on their own. Like, we all experience that.
Most of us do.

Speaker 3 And I wrote down, like, without adding the trauma of SA to the mix. And then

Speaker 3 you've talked openly about how it took you till you were older to like learn how to orgasm. You have a past history of SA as well.

Speaker 3 Do you feel like listening to her talk about it, that you related in any way, that maybe like that contributed to not being able to orgasm or having a mental block in that area?

Speaker 3 That's a really good question.

Speaker 2 I don't think I ever

Speaker 2 made the connection.

Speaker 2 And now that you say that, maybe that could have had something to do with it. Also having like starting to have sex consensually really young, right? Like

Speaker 2 14 years old, I lost my virginity and that was consensual, right?

Speaker 2 So after that was when things, I didn't know I was too young, too immature, had no idea what the fuck I was doing, had never masturbated in my entire life.

Speaker 2 Plus, essay, after that,

Speaker 2 I think, yeah, I mean, all of those things, and just being emotionally in maturity, like none of those things are really being there for a long time.

Speaker 2 I was 21 by the time I experienced my first orgasm. So I feel like all of those factors definitely have to be at play, right? But going back to your point,

Speaker 2 I wholeheartedly believe that there are, like, most women have not experienced an actual orgasm and they pretend to like sex because I was doing it. I was literally doing that.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So you're like,

Speaker 3 you had two kids.

Speaker 3 Yeah. You finally had an orgasm.

Speaker 2 Yes. And so when I,

Speaker 2 I don't, people wouldn't, you know how like girls just like chit-chat about their sex lives and like, so like Gypsy talking about her sex life is, it doesn't phase me me because I feel like we all,

Speaker 2 not all of us, but you get it.

Speaker 3 Um, yeah,

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 2 would go out on a limb and say, like, most people probably, most women probably have not experienced it.

Speaker 2 And I don't believe, like, if you tell me you have sex all the time and you orgasm every single time and you, um, and you love it and you can't get, I don't believe you.

Speaker 2 I don't fucking believe you.

Speaker 3 You probably have never orgasmed in your life.

Speaker 3 Well, that, and for women, like, you have the stars literally have to align for you to be able to have an orgasm, right? Like every the like the wind needs to be blowing the right way.

Speaker 3 Like the stars have to be matching.

Speaker 3 Every constellation that needs to be equal.

Speaker 3 Yep.

Speaker 3 You know, like if it's if you're mentally not there,

Speaker 3 there's no, at least for me, and I, you know, we've talked about it enough that I know it's the same case for you. Like if you're stressed, if you're this, there's no fucking shot.
There's no shot.

Speaker 3 So for men, they don't experience that. Obviously, like, do I think that like most men orgasm during sex or involving sexual intercourse? Absolutely.
Like, you couldn't convince me otherwise. Yeah.

Speaker 3 For women, it's not the same. No.
So

Speaker 2 she's not alone. She's not alone and not have, but no, for her to have said that on national television,

Speaker 2 I know that Ryan was more upset about her talking about him not pulling out. Like, that's the vibe that I got.
I don't know if you got the same perspective.

Speaker 2 I think that was what he knew about and and that's what he was upset about but i wonder how he feels now that he knows that she has basically said he's never made her come

Speaker 3 yeah because that's got to be i i would say that's got to be a hit to like a guy's ego right but it's like use it as a learning experience figure out how to like also figure out how to make your

Speaker 2 yes but she please i've always been an advocate of like figuring those things out on your own so you can show somebody else how to do it so if she's not doing it and figuring it it out herself,

Speaker 2 nobody else is going to be able to figure it out for her. And so, I feel like it's a

Speaker 2 them thing, not a him thing, and not just a her thing, it's a them thing.

Speaker 3 Because keep in watching,

Speaker 3 right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, because even if you know how to make yourself do those things, your partner may never get there, like he might try, or she might try, and she might never get there, and then you're not sexually compatible.

Speaker 3 So, that's like a whole other can of worms, right? But okay, on this topic, oh, one last

Speaker 2 I wrote down that I, okay, so I'm glad.

Speaker 3 Oh, wait.

Speaker 2 Let me go back. I feel bad for Ryan in this episode.

Speaker 2 And I wrote down that I think his insecurities are valid. So in this scene, like shortly after the scene, he's like, who are you texting? Looking over her shoulder at her phone and things like that.

Speaker 2 And I typed that I would also be insecure in his position.

Speaker 2 If I was in his shoes, I would be really upset and wondering what's going on. Who are you texting? Because your stepmom has involved herself in our relationship with Ken and the ex and all of that.

Speaker 2 And I said, I get the texting thing. It's annoying.
And he does need to give her her space and privacy. But I also think that his feelings are valid and both can be true.

Speaker 2 Like you are sort of invading her privacy by looking over her shoulder and constantly asking her who she's texting. But I also think the insecurities are fucking valid, right? But you know what?

Speaker 2 I want to see for Ryan.

Speaker 2 I would love for Ryan to be using this time, especially because he's been on like TikTok live and stuff, to do a, and maybe he needs to reach out to the producers, but he needs to do like a whole body transformation.

Speaker 2 He needs to hit the gym, eat well, do an entire fucking transformation and like use this to motivate him. Because all of these insecurities, in my opinion, are stemming from how he looks.

Speaker 3 It could. And I think that

Speaker 3 I think that definitely plays a part in it.

Speaker 3 I don't think there's any, I don't know a single person that I talk to that has not a single negative thing to say about their appearance, whether it's their actual body, whether it's their face, their nose, their skin, wrinkle.

Speaker 3 Like, I don't know a single person that has only positive things to say about themselves, right? So I think he can definitely undergo like mental, physical, emotional transformation.

Speaker 3 If he had like the right

Speaker 3 tools and help.

Speaker 2 If he got into shape,

Speaker 2 and it's kind of hypocritical coming from me because I'm absolutely not in shape. I literally just had two lives.
I'm like, please, when we get home, please set up all my stuff that I ordered.

Speaker 2 Like, I really need to just get to it. But I think he would feel so much more competent.
And no, it's not going to fix your relationship insecurities. And we don't know where they stand.

Speaker 2 But like in the future,

Speaker 2 you will feel so much more confident. You're still going to have some insecurities because that comes from within.
But I think part of it and the start of it is for him to.

Speaker 2 why hasn't he any have any of the pre uh producers reached out to him for this i don't know i feel like

Speaker 3 i don't know i don't know but so i did i wrote down so ryan says that he feels that ken may be he said may be a threat to the marriage right

Speaker 3 i literally put it asterisk i said he is a threat any outside influence causing friction in your marriage can rightfully be perceived as a threat so i am like fully like no ken is a threat and if it's not ken take Ken out, put somebody else doing the same shit.

Speaker 3 They're also a threat, right? Sometimes family can be a threat to your relationship. Friends can be a threat to your relationship.
Like it,

Speaker 3 we were just all having that conversation last night, right? Like if someone does not support your situation, it can cause all types of friction, which who the hell would want that?

Speaker 3 And then I put down like, I would feel self-conscious in the gypsy Ryan saga. Like if I were Ryan, I would feel self-conscious.

Speaker 3 I would feel insecure. She's not giving, like,

Speaker 3 she's doing exactly what you have talked about you doing in a previous relationship because she doesn't want to be with him.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So, you said that.

Speaker 3 So, like, being able to see that from this.

Speaker 3 So, being able to see that, I'm like, you're not getting the validation, you're not validating yourself, and you're not getting validation from your partner.

Speaker 3 So, you're just out here like flying in the wind. And that's probably the worst feeling.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 I see a lot of parallels in myself with Gypsy because

Speaker 2 this is exactly what I was doing. I was, it was like, okay,

Speaker 2 I'm not, this isn't really what I want anymore. Like, I kind of, I already have you.
Like, I

Speaker 2 right when you're in prison and it feels long distance and, you know, it feels, it still feels like a chase, a thrill, uh, the newness is there.

Speaker 2 And then when you're fully submerged into it and they have you, they want you and all of the things, you're like, okay, I'm going to move on now.

Speaker 2 that's exactly what's happening here. If

Speaker 3 right, like it's it's gone, it's over. I think

Speaker 2 if Ken wanted Gypsy,

Speaker 2 she'll get over that pretty quickly too. And so, if they, if they end up together on this show, or and they're just not like saying it publicly right now, she'll move on, she'll move on.

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Speaker 3 So then they end up getting the dog.

Speaker 3 They get the dog.

Speaker 3 I was like,

Speaker 3 the last convo was no dog. Then all of a sudden, they're getting all this dog stuff.

Speaker 3 I wrote down, Ryan definitely seems like he is the responsible party in this situation, right? Like thinking through everything.

Speaker 3 When he was explaining about how he wanted to build his own family because he didn't feel

Speaker 3 like he belonged or anything, I said, you know, it feels him describing it, it feels like he didn't feel a sense of belonging growing up.

Speaker 3 And I did want to say, Gypsy did do a good job of preparing for the dog, which kind of surprised me.

Speaker 3 So I'm like, she had to put some research, some thought into like all the things that you need because everything that Ryan was like, well, do we have this or do we have that?

Speaker 3 And she's like, yep, got this, got that, whatever. Like, I was kind of impressed because it seemed like such a spur-of-the-moment decision when she first was like, I want a dog.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, okay, but like, what about all the things? I spoke up with the dog. So I was.

Speaker 2 I never thought it was like a spur of the moment decision. Like, I kind of just always was like, okay, they're getting a dog.
Like,

Speaker 3 she's

Speaker 2 no offense, but like, not working, not doing anything else.

Speaker 2 I would hope that she's going to like take it for walks around the neighborhood because I know a lot of people that live in apartments, they'll have them like go on the balcony, which can be tough.

Speaker 2 I would guess that would be tough for like training. How do you train a dog to go? I don't know because it's like not grass.
I don't know. But

Speaker 2 it never felt.

Speaker 2 She's had years to research how to do it, how to have a dog.

Speaker 2 Is she actually, because puppies are harder than children?

Speaker 2 Is that, is she going to, but I think he has the dog. They're broken up and

Speaker 2 he left, she left him with the dog.

Speaker 3 Well, so it felt spur of the moment to me for the sole fact of like,

Speaker 3 like

Speaker 3 you have a big enough job being responsible for yourself

Speaker 3 and like re-acclimating to society. So for me, I was like, why are you wanting to immediately come off? And like, it is a responsibility.
Yes, they're cute. They're lovely.
They're cuddly.

Speaker 3 They're whatever. Like, great.
I love my dogs. But

Speaker 3 me, putting myself in her situation, I don't think the first thing I would be doing is electing to like get a dog, right? Like, you have a marriage that you should probably work on.

Speaker 3 Cause it's, you know what I mean? So that

Speaker 3 felt weird, but

Speaker 3 my perspective was very,

Speaker 3 my perspective on the dog changed when I found out when Ken at the end was showing his dog and how they talked about having one.

Speaker 3 I'm like, oh, you're trying to create what you wanted with Ken with Ryan, but you actually don't want to be with him. So what are you doing?

Speaker 2 Because she's doing what I also did, which is

Speaker 2 if I,

Speaker 2 if I do all of these things, my own feelings will change. If I do all of these things, I'll want to stay.
If I do all of these things, I will fall in love. If I do all of these things, it'll be okay.

Speaker 2 But it won't. You're really just going against everything.
She knows she's not going to end up with Ryan. She knows where her heart is.
She knows all of those things, but she's trying to still.

Speaker 2 When I went up,

Speaker 2 I don't want to bring them up. People are so sick of my divorce, like talking about my divorce, but like

Speaker 2 I knew.

Speaker 2 It wasn't right, but I made it right. And if I, I thought if I convinced myself enough that it was right, that it would be true.

Speaker 3 Um, okay. Okay.

Speaker 2 So I think that's really what it boils down to. And also, she's not really sure about the next step.
She's not sure about Ken yet. She's not sure about where it's going.

Speaker 2 So, like, until you're positive, you have to get your ducks in a row. And I'm not saying that this is okay.
I'm just telling you, like, I fucking done it.

Speaker 2 So, like, I know you're going to stay until you get your ducks in a row. This was when the first time I tried to get divorced, the attorney literally said to me, I presented everything I had.

Speaker 2 This was post-2012 push on national television, right? Like, this was post-everything. And I told her about that incident.
And I, you know, whatever. She said, you need to go back home.

Speaker 2 You need to get your ducks in a row and then come talk to me in a couple months. And I was like, oh, wow.

Speaker 3 Like, okay.

Speaker 2 Like, so I think that's what Gypsy was doing.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 Filming the argument.

Speaker 2 was insane. Like even in my wildest moments of teen mom,

Speaker 2 I would have never like them filming me argue is one thing, but to film myself argue with someone is crazy

Speaker 3 that

Speaker 3 so I had mixed feelings on it. So I kind of was like, wow, this is like real shit, right? Like this is the shit that people want to watch, right? So literally like what I wrote.

Speaker 3 Makes for good TV, right? Like it makes for good TV. That is the shit people want to watch.
That is real life. We all go through.

Speaker 3 if it's not the same topic, we all are in our relationships at some point. We all have disagreements, all arguments, all that stuff.
So that was one hand. The other hand, it felt kind of,

Speaker 3 I felt like I was watching something that I shouldn't be, right? Like it's that is typically something that's done in the privacy of your own relationship in your own home.

Speaker 3 So I kind of was like, oh, like, I appreciate it, but I'm also feeling like I should not be watching this. And then I also felt it was a little bit manipulative.
I didn't. A little bit.

Speaker 3 i didn't a little bit

Speaker 3 i mean

Speaker 3 i'm trying to be nice a lot of it a lot of it manipulative i didn't love it she kept cutting away from like

Speaker 3 what she was saying and then like she comes back at like and i can't say she did it it could have been editing i don't know but the way that it aired it kept cutting away from what she was saying until she and you could tell because she hit the spot where she was like well you're blah blah blah and i'm being defensive because and it's like okay but what happened before that?

Speaker 3 What was what did you say before that to have Ryan being like, but I'm right here? Like, I'm not going anywhere. Because his feelings are valid.
Everybody's feelings.

Speaker 3 No, I didn't, I didn't catch it.

Speaker 2 She was basically saying, like, you're being like my mom.

Speaker 3 I caught that, but it seemed like there was a chunk missing from whatever, which I know you can't air. However long that argument lasted, we don't know.
Right.

Speaker 3 So like you can't air the whole thing in this little bit of time. Yeah.
I just feel like

Speaker 3 there was something.

Speaker 3 I just, we missed something. Something was not.
I want to see the shit that wasn't aired.

Speaker 2 They're like, bonus clips, the rest of Gypsy and Ryan's.

Speaker 3 Bonus clip of the damn argument.

Speaker 2 So I wrote the argument between them is so valid. He has every right to be upset with the with filming the conversation.
But obviously we know that's a part of being on reality TV. It sucks.

Speaker 2 But a regular argument, I just, I feel like the, the the argument was very regular.

Speaker 2 It didn't change my perception of their relationship because I do feel like sometimes from my experience on reality TV, I think that one argument with a partner, with somebody, can change

Speaker 2 how the viewers feel about both or one of the people. And I don't think that that's necessarily fair.
I think that just like you said, like arguments are very real. It happens to all of us.

Speaker 2 Like, I mean, I told Elijah he was getting on my nerves the other day. Like, if they filmed that, they would think I'm horrible.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Like, Like it's just like shit like that that I'm like, he actually wasn't getting on my, like I was totally kidding, but

Speaker 2 I like said that to him. So like that little argument could have changed everybody's feelings.
You know what I mean? And so I don't love that.

Speaker 2 I said it sucks, but it's a regular argument and that's not going to change. Gypsy 1000% manipulated the situation and I stand on that.

Speaker 2 He was valid in how he felt about the conversation and that it should have, it should have been off-camera with Mia. I do,

Speaker 2 it's a double-edged sword because you're on reality TV. So these things have to come up, or there's no substance to the show, there's no purpose of the show.

Speaker 2 But I understand his position, especially because he's a teacher. But for her to be like, you're trying to control me, you don't want me to talk to my family.
That's not what his point was.

Speaker 2 His point was saying for those conversations to be left off camera. And he is a teacher.
So like, those are valid. I just don't like that he was.
And, and so he was like, don't do that.

Speaker 2 Like when she was comparing him to her mom, he was like, don't do that. I'm right here.
Don't do that. Don't do that.

Speaker 2 That was so fucking manipulative. Because

Speaker 2 you're manipulating. That's not

Speaker 3 gaslighting.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 3 It felt like she was gaslighting him. And I literally wrote down, Gypsy was absolutely either choosing to not understand or actually did not understand what Ryan's point was.

Speaker 3 Just literally don't do that on camera, right? Like, don't do

Speaker 3 the conversation.

Speaker 2 She knew what his point was. And I'm calling her out because I have been a bullshitter in my life.
And you cannot bullshit a bullshitter.

Speaker 2 She knew what his point was, but she had to manipulate the situation in order to get her way.

Speaker 2 She knew what his point was, and she knew she was in the wrong. And that's why she's like, I'm defensive because you're acting like my mom and blah, blah, blah.
No, you're being a dick.

Speaker 3 And it was weird because, like, I totally understood what she was saying. Like, clearly, she's very strongly strongly like, I do not want to be controlled.

Speaker 3 She actually said, like, if I feel like I'm being controlled, I'm leaving.

Speaker 3 But in the same breath, like,

Speaker 3 I don't know how you felt about the whole, like, if we take it to the whole situation, right?

Speaker 3 Her getting schooled on Plan B by Mia, I was cracking up, right? So

Speaker 3 Mia was more stressed than Gypsy about the possible pregnancy. And I was laughing because I said, this sounds like me and Kale.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Very much was like watching a dynamic like between you and I go down. And I'm just like, oh my God.

Speaker 3 You know, it

Speaker 3 felt,

Speaker 3 I don't, because I understand it appeared to me, Mia had her best intention, Gypsy's best intentions at heart with saying like, no, let's do this plan B situation.

Speaker 3 How did,

Speaker 3 how did that not feel controlling to Gypsy, but Ryan felt controlling?

Speaker 2 Because she knows what she's doing. She's manipulating the situation.
And I told you, you, she didn't feel like he was manipulating and controlling her.

Speaker 2 But that's how she has to spin it in order to self-sabotage and have a reason to leave. That's what she's doing.
She's, she is setting

Speaker 3 everything.

Speaker 2 Correct. She's leaving a little trail so that she can exit and be justified.
Instead of just being like, I don't love you. I want to be with somebody else.

Speaker 2 She's setting up her justifications for meeting him.

Speaker 3 Right. That makes sense.
I did want to get your take on: did you catch when she said word for word? I can't donate time to raising a child. Outlook.

Speaker 3 When she was having the conversation with Mia, they like had her talking and she said that. And I literally was like, You are absolutely like coming from someone who does not have a child.

Speaker 3 If you're looking at motherhood and parenthood as donating time,

Speaker 3 we're not ready. Absolutely not.

Speaker 2 I don't know that Gypsy should ever have children.

Speaker 3 well like i wrote down like what i'm i'm always into the why with every situation you know that i'm always asking like well why i asked you how many times how many times do i ask you on like a weekly basis like what's the what's the good parts about having kids what's the benefit of having kids right because i just want to know the why like why do people want kids why does a gypsy want a child that's just my i don't think she does i don't think she actually does

Speaker 3 so it's like a societal thing you think like she's just like like, oh, I should. So I'm

Speaker 2 she doesn't give me vibes of like actually wanting a child, a child.

Speaker 2 I think that's just no,

Speaker 2 it's ingrained in us as girls, little like children, and then even into adulthood.

Speaker 2 I mean, you've been married for how long and you people are always asking you when you're going to have kids or if you're going to have kids. And like, why is that even a point of conversation? You

Speaker 2 have seen people struggle with villages and everyone claims to be a village until the child's here and then they don't want to help. And that goes for family and friends alike.

Speaker 2 Gypsy doesn't, I don't know. I don't think she actually wants kids.

Speaker 2 I think that she's in a position where she wants to be free in a sense of like a relationship and like date and like do all of those things. I don't think she actually wants a kid right now.

Speaker 3 Let's take it back to Christy and

Speaker 3 Gypsy's dad sitting down to talk.

Speaker 3 First thing that I wrote down was Christy is clearly having extensive communication with Ken. If he's going to her to talk shit about press, that Gypsy and Ryan are doing.

Speaker 3 When the podcast got referenced, and he and like she was saying how, well, Ken felt like this, Ken felt like that.

Speaker 3 So many people that like listeners and fans of Barely Famous kept saying, like, it's giving Mrs. Robinson vibes.
Who's that? And like, as if like Ken and

Speaker 3 Christy have a

Speaker 3 thing going on.

Speaker 2 Oh, I said that last time. And I was like,

Speaker 3 and I was just like, it's feeling, it's definitely gay.

Speaker 2 You're having why anyone's upset. In my opinion, Ken is gay.

Speaker 2 In my opinion.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 He's gay. I don't, I don't know.
This literally happened to me. Do you remember Mike?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Wanted to be with me, wanted to be with me, wanted to be with me. But then all these articles and tabloids started coming out and he sold stories about me and this, that, and that.

Speaker 2 He actually gave me some of the money because he felt bad about what he did.

Speaker 2 And then, um,

Speaker 2 his family didn't like me because I wasn't, like, I didn't like fit the mold, right? And then, lo and behold, years and years and years later, I'm in California for work.

Speaker 2 And he's like, Hey, I just want to really apologize. I'm actually gay.

Speaker 2 But, like, he couldn't take the heat from all of the publicity. That's literally what he said.
Like, I don't, it was just like,

Speaker 3 I don't know, he's gay.

Speaker 2 Ken, in my opinion, I think he's gay.

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Speaker 3 I would love to be a fly on the wall in, you know, Gypsy's, you know, parents' household with this situation going on because

Speaker 3 clearly, Christy and dad not aligned. Clearly.
So, like, dad wants him to stay away.

Speaker 3 It feels weird, right? It definitely feels different. But with this one,

Speaker 3 I don't know how you get past, like, how do you get past that when

Speaker 3 Gypsy

Speaker 3 is fragile, will say, right? Like, she's

Speaker 3 in a fragile state. She's essentially mentally, it feels like a child.
Teenager will even say, whatever.

Speaker 3 And it feels like her,

Speaker 3 who's acting as her mom, who she knows as like a mom figure, is doing things that are not in her best interest.

Speaker 3 And her dad is like watching that happen, and that's his spouse doing it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that would that would piss me off. Like, if I'm like, the roles are reversed, and Elijah was doing that to like Isaac or Lincoln, you're not their biological father, and you're

Speaker 2 encouraging

Speaker 2 disrespect with their spouse. Like, that's just not something I could stand for, especially after, you know what I mean? Like, and I feel like

Speaker 2 that sounds hypocritical coming from me because of all the shit that I've done in my life, but also I've learned, like,

Speaker 2 like I can speak to it because I've done things like, you know what I mean? Like, I've done things that are not great. So I feel like

Speaker 2 I have perspective on it. I have experience with it.
And it's just not something that I'm willing to stand for. I don't know.
I'm glad that Rod was on Ryan's side.

Speaker 2 Rod was valid and correct, in my opinion, on the Christy and Ken situation because he was just basically like, if something happens between them, it's going to be your fault.

Speaker 2 And obviously, they're all adults, right? So when Mia,

Speaker 2 this is what really pissed me off. So Mia included, they're all adults.
Rod, Christy, Ken, Ryan, Gypsy.

Speaker 3 All five of them are adults.

Speaker 2 Albeit, Gypsy is not

Speaker 2 as mature as we would love her to be. But

Speaker 2 when Mia didn't like Ryan going to Rod about the situation, the same same thing could be said for Ken and Christy. Why are you not giving Christy, your mom, the same energy as Ryan?

Speaker 2 Because you know damn well your mom should not be talking to Gypsy's ex and setting that up for her.

Speaker 2 Like, why are you, you don't say anything about that, but you're like, oh, Ryan shouldn't have gone to dad.

Speaker 3 So I felt conflicted because I've been in situations where I'll go to like

Speaker 3 one parent

Speaker 3 over like the one that I should be dealing with. But that's more so like coming from a place of I want

Speaker 3 something to be received

Speaker 3 correctly, right? So it's like I'm going to go to the person who knows you best to help me figure out if you're okay with it and it doesn't put you in a weird situation. How do I

Speaker 3 get my thoughts, feelings, whatever across appropriately so they're received in the correct manner? So I definitely saw that.

Speaker 3 But at the same time, I did say to myself, like, oh, I wonder why he didn't.

Speaker 3 Because if it came down to a situation, if I was in this situation and Corey was being encouraged to go talk to an ex or have information fed to him about an ex and all this stuff, and it definitely feels like you're trying to split us up, I would immediately go to the fucking source and I would be as disrespectful as possible.

Speaker 3 And I would

Speaker 3 say that felt bad.

Speaker 2 Yeah, she's gotten grace for what she's done. I don't know how Mia is okay with it.
I think Mia also doesn't really love Ryan. And Gypsy says that.
She's like, Mia doesn't like you, but

Speaker 2 she doesn't not like you. She's just iffy about you sometimes.
It's clear that she's not going to go against what her mom's doing because she doesn't really like Ryan. But that's not fair.

Speaker 2 You don't get to do those things just because you don't like somebody. That's not your decision to make.
That's not your, that is not your right, in my opinion.

Speaker 3 I don't know. I think

Speaker 3 wrote that down too, because that was the first time we had confirmation of Mia feeling like I know I had said, I don't feel like any of them like Ryan. I really, I really didn't.

Speaker 3 I feel like the dad was the most open to Ryan. I feel like Mia and Christy don't fuck with him.
And I felt like that since episode one.

Speaker 3 And Ryan coming out out of, it seemed like the clear blue sky, but we obviously know it wasn't. Ryan saying, don't let Mia talk shit about me.
And, but I know she's going to.

Speaker 3 But here's what I had to say about that.

Speaker 3 Gypsy turns around and shares that Mia likes Ryan sometimes, and sometimes is iffy. Why are we sharing? And again, I think it goes to immaturity in life, in relationships, whatever.

Speaker 3 Do not share what your family and your friends have to say about your partner because it is an absolute recipe for fucking disaster.

Speaker 3 100%.

Speaker 3 Don't say

Speaker 3 so-and-so

Speaker 3 doesn't like this one.

Speaker 2 I'm going to take that a step further.

Speaker 2 Let your family and friends know. Don't text about that because you don't know what the relationship dynamic is.

Speaker 2 And if people go through phones, you don't want your partner to be going through your phone for whatever reason they have and see what somebody in your family or your friends have said.

Speaker 2 That is a private conversation in person. I know that everybody needs to vent.
I know that everybody is going to have their good and bad days.

Speaker 2 Every relationship is going to have their good and bad bad days.

Speaker 2 Don't say how you feel about your person's partner over text because they will find out and it will be a huge point of contention in your relationship. So that's not fair.

Speaker 2 I also, again, this, this whole situation, like I feel bad for Ryan because we've been there. We know how that feels

Speaker 2 when it, like, I cried to Elijah about something similar not that long ago, where I'm like, imagine nobody's in your corner and the other person's family doesn't like you.

Speaker 2 Or, right, or

Speaker 2 not even not liked you, but has never treated you with respect or has, you know, said shit behind your back. Like, just, it's not a good place to be.

Speaker 2 And then you withdraw, and you're still the problem.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you're the problem because you don't come around. You're the problem because of this.
But it's like, you don't make me feel welcome. You don't make me feel comfortable.

Speaker 3 I know the conversations you have about me. Like, once you know too much, there is no going back

Speaker 3 at all. And I think, you know, something that you definitely changed,

Speaker 3 I can say, is that going into the relationship with Elijah? You were really careful to not spread any,

Speaker 3 you know, arguments, anything like that amongst

Speaker 3 everyone.

Speaker 3 Right? Like, you were super, like, I'm not going to take all of our bullshit and go say it to all these people again.

Speaker 3 I'm just not going to because it didn't bode well in any of your past relationships

Speaker 3 either.

Speaker 2 And other people knew, like, I feel like some of my friends

Speaker 2 i don't know if that's like a part of like getting older that you're like okay i have one friend that i might tell like what i don't even tell you like if me and elisha argue i might not even tell like you know i don't talk about my relationship to you i don't really talk about my relationship to anyone if i do i talk to you about it and that's it i don't need to have the same conversation about my relationship with everyone like i i think it comes with maturity I think it comes with maturity.

Speaker 3 I think that that's something that you learn from. I think it comes with maturity.
It comes from getting older. It comes from being in your relationships longer.

Speaker 3 It comes from seeing the effects of doing that in previous relationships. And clearly, I feel the way that it appears is that Gypsy has no problem talking about,

Speaker 3 like,

Speaker 3 why would Christy feel the way she feels about Ryan if she didn't know

Speaker 3 too much? Why would Mia be iffy if she didn't know too much? Correct. Correct.

Speaker 2 I think if Gypsy would have kept her her mouth shut which

Speaker 2 i think by her age typically you already know like i'm the same age as gypsy so like i know that now um

Speaker 2 my other relationship i mean even in the beginning with me and elisha i was saying too much um

Speaker 2 that goes to prove like what we've been saying about like her maturity and stuff like that if that makes sense um

Speaker 2 Okay, so the last thing that I wrote was that there's nothing to fuss about with Ken because I don't think that Ken is straight. And I might get canceled for saying that.

Speaker 2 It's my opinion and not necessarily a fact. My Gator was just going off.

Speaker 2 I had a guy like Ken try to do all this. And when articles were written and his family didn't like me, we obviously broke it off.

Speaker 2 I actually wasn't serious about him anyway, but he later came out to me and also apologized for various things. Very interesting how parallel our lives are.

Speaker 2 And that's really all. I did not get to the, I didn't get to watch the previews for the next episode.
So that'll be a nice little surprise for me.

Speaker 3 But oh, okay.

Speaker 2 Well, when we saw the previews of Ken on the show,

Speaker 2 I did not realize that he came onto this fucking show by himself. It wasn't like, oh, I'm going to meet up with Gypsy and film with Gypsy.
You're weird for that. No.
You're so fucking weird for that.

Speaker 3 You're weird. This

Speaker 3 is going to open up a can of worms. Okay.
This is going to open up a can because

Speaker 3 so a couple things before we get to like that part. So, Gypsy admits, you know, how we've been like, okay, was it Ken that was pushing marriage? Was it Gypsy that was pushing marriage?

Speaker 3 Like, we weren't really sure. It was her.
Gypsy admits that she's the one who pushed marriage, pushed the prison wedding situation, right? Like, okay.

Speaker 3 Um,

Speaker 3 it came on the screen, like, they did the text overlay thing

Speaker 3 that producers reached out to Ken to come on to share his story.

Speaker 2 Well, when they learned about him, like, I wanted to decide,

Speaker 3 yes but i wanted to get your take on that because i was wondering if it was done with gypsies knowing and with gypsy's permission or if it was done backdoor shady like something that

Speaker 2 am i allowed to talk about what happened to me am i allowed to talk about what happened to me

Speaker 2 do you care so i don't give a

Speaker 2 I want to tell y'all a little story. I don't know if I've ever said this on the podcast.

Speaker 2 I maybe did, maybe didn't. I don't know.

Speaker 2 If you run it back to, I believe it was season one of Teen Mom 2.

Speaker 2 I'm living in Joe's parents' house in Eastern Pennsylvania, and I go meet Jordan at a park while I was living with Joe.

Speaker 2 I'm pretty sure Joe even dropped me off to that, if I'm not mistaken. I did not want to do that.

Speaker 2 Like I had told the producers, like, oh, I want to hang out with this guy, but I was like, I should not be hanging out with him while I'm living in Joe's parents' house.

Speaker 2 Like, that should not be occurring. I should not be doing this.
Like, I don't want to do it.

Speaker 2 Dia,

Speaker 2 she is a female producer. She, I don't know if she was an executive producer at that time, told me that I had to do it.
She told, she did not give me an option.

Speaker 2 She even suggested that producers would drive me, and they're not allowed. At the time, they were not allowed to drive talent.
But she was like, You're doing this. Like, this is

Speaker 2 happening. And I was like, No, I really don't want to do it.
Like, I don't want to get in trouble. I don't, like, I had a conscience.
Like, I know, I knew better. And

Speaker 2 they said, Well, you signed up for the show. They were not nice about it.

Speaker 2 They were absolutely, I cannot remember the exact words that were said to me, but I know specifically she said, like, you have to do it. Um,

Speaker 2 we've already got like producers here. Like, we'll take you if we have to, but like, you have to do this.
And it was,

Speaker 2 it, it was, it felt now, especially like, like, obviously I was uncomfortable in the moment. And I felt like this is not going to end well for me.
And it didn't.

Speaker 2 Like, I still to this day see comments specifically on TikTok that are like, you know, that the scenes come back and they're like, Didn't she date someone else while she was there?

Speaker 2 I didn't want to do that. Like, that was not something that I wanted to do.
I, I, like, I was definitely seeing someone, but I didn't want to hang out with him while I was living there.

Speaker 2 Like, that means that's why I mean,

Speaker 2 I wanted to get out, not just for me and Isaac, but I also wanted to live my own life without, I don't know, it was just weird. But, like, to force

Speaker 2 that on this, like, I just want to know what Gypsy's take is on that. And I don't, is she gonna

Speaker 2 talk about it does she talk about it in the next episode

Speaker 3 um so seeing the previews it doesn't look like it but like they might just not have put it in the previews i would have assumed that they would because it would have been like juicy next episode i literally put previews look wild for the next episode so i'm very excited they're doing a very good job of keeping us wanting to watch in my opinion um

Speaker 3 I actually was also surprised, like, I was telling everybody that's here with me on vacation, like, what we're talking about, what we're covering. And they're like, we didn't even know she had a show.

Speaker 3 So, so many people still have no idea that she has this reality show going on, which is surprising to me. Um, but we, you know, definitely recommend watching.

Speaker 2 Um, just in terms of like what you just said about people not knowing,

Speaker 2 I think that we have all gravitated to getting a lot of our news off of social media, like TikTok and Instagram, Facebook. But

Speaker 2 even then, you could follow someone and you never see their post again. What is the alternative to social media for advertising stuff like this?

Speaker 2 Because I do think that if more people, because people, one, when they find out about it, they don't know where or how to watch it. So there's no information out there on where lifetime is.

Speaker 2 Besides, we've said it on here, like Philo. And I think I just said in the beginning of this episode, like you could potentially watch on Hulu.

Speaker 2 Where do you advertise? to get people to watch.

Speaker 3 You know, that's that's a good, I mean, social media, just just the way that you see posts and stuff these days, because they've messed with algorithms so many times, like, I, there's no good answer because

Speaker 3 you just miss it. You just miss things.

Speaker 3 The best thing that I can say is: like, if you like a creator, you like, you know, anybody that you see on social media, turn on notifications for their posts so you don't miss stuff. Like,

Speaker 3 I hate how it's left to the user. I'm not, I'm not a fan of that.

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Speaker 3 But the, you know, the previews do look insane. I'm, I'm genuinely curious when I was set.

Speaker 3 When I didn't know if you wanted to say anything in regards to production, reaching out to Chris, because that's what I was talking about.

Speaker 2 Oh, I thought you were talking about how they forced me to.

Speaker 3 Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 That one works too. But

Speaker 3 I feel like that would be a good take because you weren't asked about that. Well, so

Speaker 2 when Chris and I were together, and I'm going to

Speaker 2 tread lightly when I say together because in my mind we were together, but in his mind,

Speaker 2 after

Speaker 2 that position, now I know how he felt.

Speaker 2 He never really believed he was ever with me.

Speaker 2 He would tell me what I wanted to hear. And that's part of like the gaslighting, right? So like he would be like, Oh, yeah, I'll do teen mom for the right price.
So,

Speaker 2 in my mind, I'm advocating for someone who wants to be on the show.

Speaker 2 And I have to say this in order to get where we're getting around to, only because if I don't say this, he'll come back and be like, Oh, that's not how it went. So, I want to tell the full picture.

Speaker 2 So, like, we had meetings with Larry and, you know, I'm negotiating for Chris because Chris is telling me that he wants to be on the show.

Speaker 2 And then every single number that Larry was throwing out, Chris was like, No, it's not good enough. It's not good enough.
It's not good enough.

Speaker 2 So then he ultimately still didn't do it, which is really fucking weird. And then I'm talking about leaving the show.

Speaker 2 And now, all of a sudden, the producers go behind my back, go around, not behind my back, they go around me, even though I was advocating for him to be on the show

Speaker 2 and get him on the show without telling me, without just giving me a heads up, without anything. Like I never,

Speaker 2 and that would be fine if that's the show that I signed up for, right? Like

Speaker 2 if you, it's sort of like a typical business model when you run your own business. It's like, make your employees happy so they want to come here, so they want to be here, right?

Speaker 2 Like, it can't just be about the numbers because money can only make you happy for so long. Like, money does buy happiness, but only for a short time.
So, that's kind of where I was.

Speaker 2 And so, for you guys, I say you guys, but for producers to go around me at that point because they were desperate and grasping at straws, I feel wasn't really fair.

Speaker 2 And I had been advocating for him to be on the show the entire time. So, fuck you.
But also,

Speaker 2 it was dirty for him to do it with, like,

Speaker 2 Ken, it was dirty for Ken to do it without having that conversation with Gypsy if there wasn't one.

Speaker 2 It was also dirty for Chris to do it without having a conversation with me when I was advocating for you the whole fucking time.

Speaker 3 And, you know, and I get it. It's like, kind of like the nature of the beast, right? In the industry, I would say transparency is extremely lacking in 99.9% of the industry.

Speaker 3 As far as like, especially reality, is concerned. I feel like that's where a lot of transparency is a huge, huge problem.

Speaker 3 That being said, I really want to know if Gypsy knew. I want to know if Gypsy knew.
And this kind of leads into my next question.

Speaker 3 A ton of people were writing in after you sort of a little bit talked about how things might be filmed and not air in order.

Speaker 3 I wonder if, like, Pen coming in was actually filmed at the end, but placed in here and they had already spoken or something.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, that's we have to keep it. When we see Gypsy with Ken on the show, we gotta, we gotta look at her hair and we'll know.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Um, can you talk a little bit more about

Speaker 3 kind of the back end process of how that how everything works? Like, how do you go from filming to what you see on the show in your experience?

Speaker 3 Obviously, we don't know what it looks like for gypsies, but it could be similar. Probably is similar.

Speaker 2 When I was filming, we had like set a set number of hours/slash days that we were allowed to film for a season. And then

Speaker 2 when

Speaker 2 before you start filming the season, you kind of do a rundown with the producers like what.

Speaker 2 what you have going on so they can sort of start to develop story arc and episodes that would make sense in chronological order.

Speaker 2 Now, with that being said, in real life, things come up, things change, you know, things don't always play out the way that you planned for. So,

Speaker 2 in the course of filming, something might happen in the beginning of the season, in the beginning where you start filming, but it doesn't necessarily fit the puzzle.

Speaker 2 But they want to use it, so they'll place something that happened in January and they'll place it in June on the timeline.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 that's why haircuts and things might be different. They also might, and I don't, I can't speak for lifetime, so I've never worked for lifetime reality TV.

Speaker 2 Sometimes you have to go back to finish a scene or complete a story arc.

Speaker 2 So typically in every episode, it's like something's going to happen, something happens, something happens after the fact, like what happened after the fact. So there's a story arc.

Speaker 2 That's the three points.

Speaker 2 Sometimes. They miss one of those pieces.
And so they realize in editing as a whole for all eight or 10 or 12 episodes, however many you have in a season, oh shit, we're missing a huge chunk.

Speaker 2 So now we need you to go back and rehab these conversations. And so in that way, it's scripted, but it's not really scripted.

Speaker 2 It's like you're just filling in something that already happened, but it didn't necessarily happen that way.

Speaker 2 So they're going to take this thing that was filmed in June and your hair might be shorter, but we're going to go place it in January now because we had only two of the three. pieces of the puzzle.

Speaker 3 People were like looking for insight into that. So, you know, you talked about it a a little bit.
I think it was on episode before this one.

Speaker 3 And people were like, they liked the insight to see what it is. Could you, looking at this episode to make it make more sense for people, could you identify what the,

Speaker 3 you know, before it happens, what happened and after it happened from this episode?

Speaker 2 In my opinion, they finished the dog conversation because sometimes they do and sometimes they don't do that. So like

Speaker 2 not all episodes are going to go

Speaker 2 like episode one might not have anything to do with episode three, but here they did a really good job by finishing the story arc from the previous episode about the dog.

Speaker 2 So the dog comes full circle, right? So that they finished that in the episode. But they, I think, in my opinion, this was all about Ken.

Speaker 2 So it was, okay, me and Ryan are having unprotected sex, being a little irresponsible. Then the second arc was Ken is a

Speaker 2 threat to our relationship. And then now Ken is speaking up.
So that was like, in my opinion, the full, like, we're setting the, the, the, instability in Ryan and Gypsy's relationship.

Speaker 2 Enter Ken.

Speaker 2 Ken shows up. So now the next episode, and I didn't watch the previews because I didn't have time.
Um, but my guess is that Gypsy probably sees Ryan, or there's some sort of maybe she finds out that

Speaker 2 Ken is filming and back in the picture. I don't know.
But what was in the previews?

Speaker 3 Um, so in the previews, obviously Ken comes on.

Speaker 3 It, I should have written down more than just previews look wild, but um, I know Ken comes on, they're they're talking like about plans that Ken and Gypsy had, right?

Speaker 3 So, like, they do that right up until they hit the previews.

Speaker 3 So, it's like he has the like a dog, but doesn't name it the name that they were gonna name it together, but still has like the dog they want. It was just like a weird situation.

Speaker 3 Um, him like wanting to share his story, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3 It looks like Gypsy and Ryan are still having more problems, which that's what i was going to ask you too like just be because this is what we're seeing and this is what like the overall storyline is that doesn't mean that gypsy and ryan didn't get filmed having a really great day it just didn't fit to make sense is that correct correct correct so

Speaker 3 the producers and that's forgotten too is that

Speaker 2 So the biggest thing that I can stress to people who watch reality TV and who are curious about how the inner workings play go into effect and like like work out?

Speaker 2 No matter how something happens, they

Speaker 2 they have to make it make sense for viewers. So

Speaker 2 it may not have happened that way. It happened, but it might not happen the way it's depicted.

Speaker 2 But because that's how it makes sense to the viewers and what they got on camera, that's how they have to play it.

Speaker 2 And so that's essentially how I was getting, why I was getting upset, you know, when I was on TV towards the end and I had a voice and I realized I could speak against the producers because in the beginning you feel like, oh my God, I can't speak up.

Speaker 2 I can't say, you know, I thought that I had to do certain things, but towards the end, I was like, I don't have to do that because you simply said I had to. Like, that's just not how this works.

Speaker 2 It has to make sense for the viewers. So, I'm trying to think of a situation that I like filmed that was like, oh, this is how it makes sense.
I think it was when I was flipping Larry off.

Speaker 2 Like, me and Larry were actually having a really good conversation that day. But the way that it played out for it to make sense and be

Speaker 2 foreshadowing my exit to Teen Mom. They people were like, She was horrible to the producer.

Speaker 2 No, me and Larry were actually having a great conversation that day, but like off camera, and not off-camera, but like they broke the fourth wall, which they don't normally do unless there was a scenario like that.

Speaker 2 That's how it would play to make sense. Oh, Kale and the producers are not getting along.
But that's not entirely true. There was more to it.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 Like, you know what was going on because you were there firsthand, but

Speaker 2 it has to make sense to the viewers. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Since I've worked with you and known you, I'm more interested in the behind the scenes of it than I am of like actually watching a TV show.

Speaker 3 So this one's actually kind of fun for me because I stopped watching reality TV

Speaker 3 after

Speaker 3 probably the first like two years we were friends. I stopped watching reality TV.
Just after I was like, it's not real. I'm not like a Vanderpump girl.
I'm not.

Speaker 3 didn't get when Jersey Shore re-surged into like Jersey Shore vacation vacation or whatever the hell it is. Didn't watch that.

Speaker 3 I would only turn my TV on because I had cable and it held ratings for when Teen Mom was on. I would like turn on

Speaker 3 you just support your friends and whatever they're doing. But like I didn't,

Speaker 2 in my opinion though, Teen Mom was

Speaker 2 while I was on it. I can only speak while I don't, I have not seen it since I left.
I have not watched one single episode.

Speaker 2 While I was on Teen Mom, I will say that that was the most real reality show that I had seen filmed because they are taking real life scenarios and

Speaker 2 filming them.

Speaker 2 I'll talk shit until I'm blue in the face, right? But like, I will give them credit where credit is due.

Speaker 2 And I do think that they did a good job doing the best to make it as close to what was actually happening as possible. So, like,

Speaker 2 if you ask me, was Teen Mom scripted? No, it wasn't. If you ask me, you know, was that, yes.
Like, those are, I made poor choices. Like, you can't, they didn't make that up.

Speaker 2 Like, I was making poor choices. I do think that sometimes editing makes things like not real,

Speaker 2 but still real. Like, I don't even know how to describe it.

Speaker 3 And I will say that.

Speaker 2 Well, they do pigeonhole you. And so they pick and choose what's worth filming for that pigeonholed role.

Speaker 2 Do I think that I was the queen of bad choices and that I'm the villain in real life at all times? No, I don't feel that way. Do I, I, I don't think that my life revolves around my baby daddies.

Speaker 2 Like I don't think that that's accurate, but that those things are still happening. They just,

Speaker 2 they focused on that. So it seemed like that was the only thing going on.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 Yes. And that is the part when I say I feel like it's not real.
That's what I mean.

Speaker 3 Like I feel like If you unless you're going to paint, and I don't even know what the possible way to do this is, but unless you're going to paint a full picture, to me, it just feels like not genuine.

Speaker 3 It feels like,

Speaker 3 okay, while these things can exist, so can all of this, but all of this doesn't fit into whatever the creative team decided was going to be your season

Speaker 3 for each person.

Speaker 2 Correct.

Speaker 3 And that's why I was-like, that's the part that I was like.

Speaker 2 I was advocating for my own show because I felt like I had, it wasn't just my baby daddies, right? Like it was, there was so much more to my story that I do feel like I have enough for my own show.

Speaker 2 Even if it's only 30 minutes versus an hour, I feel like I do have enough because my life doesn't revolve.

Speaker 2 Like that is a part of my life, but it's not the only, like I don't spend my days and my weeks. literally planning around my baby daddies.

Speaker 2 I don't even talk to them on most days, any of them, except for Elijah. Like I literally, this entire week, since Sunday at drop off, I have not had one word with any of my baby dads.

Speaker 2 And it's Thursday. So like my life doesn't revolve around it.
It's a very small part of it.

Speaker 2 And so, like, obviously, you know, like things are happening behind the scenes, like in real life with me right now.

Speaker 2 And I hope that if anything does eventually come together and work out, that I'm able to tell a more full picture of what goes on, like the inner workings that, you know, the baby daddy thing is just

Speaker 2 one day of the entire week. You know what I mean? So,

Speaker 2 but I will say, that all being said,

Speaker 2 I think that Lifetime is doing a really good job at telling the full story of Gypsy's reality, right? Because even though it might not be in order

Speaker 2 in terms of like chronological order, I do think that they're telling the cl because when you get out of jail and you do have a sister and you get closer to your sister and your stepmom and your dad and you have this marriage, like you are going to talk to those family members about your marriage and you are going to argue with your husband and you are going to maybe put your ducks in a row to leave the situation.

Speaker 2 You're going to self-sabotage. You're going to make bad decisions.
Like, I think that Lifetime is doing a really good job in telling the story as close to it with the most accuracy.

Speaker 3 Like, I think they're doing a good job. Well, I do.
Just because we don't like it doesn't mean it's not accurate. So correct.
Correct. I agree.

Speaker 2 That all being said, that's all I have for the Gypsy Rose episode five. So we're on, this is episode five.
There's only three episodes left. We'll see if she gets a season.

Speaker 2 I'm going to guess she's going to get a season two because we need to see how the divorce plays out. And then,

Speaker 2 because I don't think they're divorced yet. And we're watching, like I said in the beginning of the episode, we're watching on Philo.
It drops Mondays.

Speaker 2 I think you can also possibly stream on Hulu and then we cover every week. And we'll be doing that for the next, I guess, for the rest of this month.

Speaker 2 And then we'll see what show we're going to cover next.

Speaker 3 And you'll have some good guests, which will be good. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 I think August is going to be the end of this month and August are going to be a really good, they're going to be really good for the podcast. So I'm excited.

Speaker 2 thank you for joining us and I'll see you at the beach in about 20 minutes

Speaker 2 all right bye love you thank you

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