Life After Lock Up - You Told the World

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Welcome to the shit show. Things are going to get weird.
It's your fave villain,

Kale Lowry. And you're listening to Barely Famous.
Welcome to Barely Fucking Famous. This is a fun episode because Kristen and I are on the same resort right now, but we're in different, I don't want to call it a hotel, condos.
We're in different condos. But we were like, we have to record.
Let's do it first thing in the morning, morning get it out of the way not that it's a chore but just because we're on vacation so that we could like plan for the rest of the day and i actually forgot my laptop and i realized that but um so that's why i'm using i6 and we're ready to dissect this fifth episode of gypsy rose's show can we talk for a second for anybody who has no idea what we're doing we're only dissecting the show the reality show gypsy rose on lifetime not like documentaries that have occurred after before this because a lot of people are like they're jumbling things up we're trying to remember the stuff that we already knew but we're our specific goal here is we're just dissecting what's being aired in these episodes

it's a weekly they air monday kristen and i watch on philo it's on lifetime i think you can stream it possibly on hulu um but we watch on philo and like kristen said we're dissecting the reality show only we're not talking about anything else unless it's remembered but i do have an update for you um on one of the episodes

you had said that you thought the gypsy rose was in a wheelchair at home that was my thoughts a lovely listener follower supporter of this podcast sent me some tiktoks of gypsy rose's house while she lived with Dee Dee Blanchard.

It was not

wheelchair friendly.

Bleh. some TikToks of Gypsy Rose's house while she lived with Dee Dee Blanchard.
It was not wheelchair friendly. Didn't think about that.
Prime scene photos had shown the hoarding everywhere and the wheelchairs, there was two or three of them were in the corner facing the wall. So she was in fact free to walk around in the house.
so the only thing i want to ask about that then is did dv chain her to her at night so she didn't run away i think that occurred when she did attempt i think there was one or two attempts to run away and so that's when that started but prior to that i think it was like fair game like she could do whatever she wanted in the house that's kind of crazy like when you think about essentially you're trying to kind of hold somebody captive to like yeah it does feel a little bit like stockholm syndrome because you not that she was in love with her mom but she was completely dependent on her mom so even if she thinking she was younger she wouldn't have access

to like her birth certificate her social security card any of her information to leave so in a way she felt like brainwashed and trapped that makes sense that makes sense so it's like a kind of built i don't want to say trust but reliance like survival yeah so actually the one of the the book that I read while I was on our first day here,

similar situation.

There was a captive that was essentially developed stockholm

syndrome so she was sent to go to like nursing school and like do all these things outside of

the garden but she came back every like she never went to get help she never defied what is it

defied disobeyed she never disobeyed the captor so i thought that was really interesting um

Thank you. But she came back every, like, she never went to get help.
She never defied, what is it? Defied? Disobeyed? She never disobeyed the captor. So I thought that was really interesting parallel.
So I dissected the show a little bit in my notes. And I watched this while Isaac was walking around the boardwalk.
I stand by my previous statements of Gypsy being emotionally stunted and as well as her maturity being stunted. I feel like sometimes when we watch shows or documentaries or we talk about something enough, like our perspectives can change with new information.
I think by episode five, I still stand by she is still stunted. Not like she was stunted and she's growing.
I feel she's still stuck like very much stuck in like young young gypsy like what we all did as teenagers or young 20 year old adults i was gonna say probably like where she left off at some part with her mom i would say is she's probably like mentally appears to me like 16 17 the craziest part i think is that i'm constantly having to be reminded that she she did this whole thing in her 20s i don't know why it feels like she did this when she was a teenager i think it's because we know like mentally she was not. Where she is or where she was.
Like actual age. Like you know how the twins are an adjusted age? Yeah.
It kind of feels like that to me. Yeah.
Absolutely. Because in some ways I do see a lot of.
Maybe it's more responsibility than maturity. I see some aspects of her like where she's like, doesn't like clutter.
She, you know, wants to learn how to cook. She's like, kind of self-sufficient.
I think she learned some of those things in prison. I think it's more responsibility than it is maturity, which is, I mean, that's growth, I guess.
Probably learned more life skills in prison than she ever did with her mom if I have 100% and I struggled with that too right and so like I feel like I recognize that in her it's like it wasn't until I was in my very own apartment because I couldn't when I lived with Joe and I was pregnant and I was having Isaac everything even though I was home with him by myself during the day like i wasn't paying the bills i wasn't buying the groceries like i wasn't doing any of that so it wasn't until i was on my own that i truly learned responsibility but i was still emotionally and mentally stunted yeah yeah definitely um so in like the you know how in the beginning they do like the preview for like the episode that you're literally about to watch yeah she says that she's never orgasmed with a partner and she talks about her past history of essay and i wrote down like so many women experience not knowing how to orgasm or how to even like get there or anything about their own bodies on their own like we all experience that most of us do and I wrote down like without adding the trauma of essay to the mix and then you've talked openly about how it took you till you were older to like learn how to orgasm you have a past history of essay as well do you feel like listening to her talk about it that you related in any way that maybe like that contributed to not being able to orgasm or having a mental block in that area that's a really good question i don't think i ever made the connection together and now that you say that maybe that could have had something to do with it um also

having like starting to have sex consensually really young right like 14 years old i lost my virginity and that was consensual right so after that was when things i didn't know i was too young too immature i had no idea what the fuck i was doing had never masturbated in my entire life plus essay after that

I think, yeah, I mean, all of those things and just being emotionally in maturity, like none of those things really being there for a long time. I was 21 by the time I experienced my first orgasm.
So I feel like all of those factors definitely have to be at play right but going back to your point i wholeheartedly believe that there are like most women have not experienced an actual orgasm and they pretend to like sex because i was doing it i was literally doing that yeah you're like you you had two kids but yeah you finally had an orgasm yes and so when i i don't people when you know how like girls just like chit chat about their sex lives and like so like gypsy talking about her sex life is it doesn't faze me because i feel like we all not all of us but you get it um yeah i yeah i would go out on a limb and say like most people probably most women probably have not experienced it and i don't believe like if you tell me you have sex all the time and you orgasm every single time and you um and you love it and you can't get i don't believe you i don't fucking believe you you probably have never orgasms in your life well that and for women like you have the stars literally have to align for you to be able to have an orgasm right like ever the like the wind needs to be blowing the right way like the stars have to be matching whatever constellation it needs to equal yep you know like if it if you're mentally not there there's no at least for me and i you know we've talked about enough and i know it's same case for you like if you're stressed if you're this not there, there's no, at least for me. And I, you know, we've talked about enough and I know it's the same case for you.
Like if you're stressed, if you're this, if there's no fucking shot, there's no shot. So for men, they don't experience that.
So obviously like, do I think that like most men orgasm during sex or involving sexual intercourse? Absolutely. Like you couldn't convince me otherwise.
Yeah. For women, it's not the same.
No. So I don't think she's not alone.
She's not alone and not have, but for her to have said that on national television, I know that Ryan was more upset about her talking about him not pulling out. Like I, that's the vibe that I got.
I don't know if you got the same perspective i think that was what

he knew about and that's what he was upset about but i wonder how he feels now that he knows that she has basically said he's never made her come yeah because that's got to be i would say that's got to be a hit to like a guy's ego right but it's like use it as a learning experience figure out how to like also figure out how to make your yes but she please i've always been an advocate of like

figure use it as a learning experience. Figure out how to like, figure out how to make your...
Yes, but she... Please.
I've always been an advocate of like figuring those things out on your own so you can show somebody else how to do it. So if she's not doing it and figuring it out herself, nobody else is going to be able to figure it out for her.
And so I feel like it's a them thing, not a him thing and not just a her thing. It's a them thing because keep in mind.
Right. Yeah.
Because even if you know how to make yourself do those things, your partner may never get there. Like he might try or she might try and she might never get there.
And then you're not sexually compatible. So that's like a whole other can of worms.
Right. But okay.
On this topic. i wrote down that i okay so i'm glad oh wait let me go back i feel bad for ryan in this episode and i wrote down that i think his insecurities are valid so in this scene like shortly after the scene he's like who are you texting looking over her shoulder at her phone and things like that.
And I typed that I would also be insecure in his

position. If I was in his shoes, I would be really upset and wondering what's going on.

Who are you texting? Because your stepmom has involved herself in our relationship with Ken

and the ex and all of that. And I said, I get the texting thing.
It's annoying. And he does need to

give her her space and privacy. But I also think that his feelings are valid and both can be true.

Like,

you know what I want to see for Ryan? I would love for Ryan to be using this time, especially because he's been on like TikTok live and stuff to do a, and maybe he needs to reach out to the producers, but he needs to do like a whole body transformation. He needs to hit the gym, eat well, do an entire fucking transformation and like use this to motivate him because all of these insecurities, in my opinion stemming from how he looks it could and i think that i think that definitely plays a part in it i don't think there's any i don't know a single person that i talk to that has not a single negative thing to say about their appearance whether it's their actual body whether it's their face their nose their skin wrinkle like i don't know a single person that has only positive things to say about themselves right so i think he can definitely undergo like mental physical emotional transformation if he had like the right tools and help if he got into shape and it's kind of hypocritical coming from me because i'm absolutely not in shape i literally just had to realize i'm like please when we get home please set up all my stuff that i ordered like i really need to just like get to it but i think he would feel so much more confident and no it's not going to fix your relationship insecurities and i we don't know like where they stand but like in the future you will feel so much more confident if you're still going to fix your relationship insecurities.
And I, we don't know like where they stand, but like in the future,

you will feel so much more confident.

You're still going to have some insecurities because that comes from within.

But I think part of it and the start of it is for him to,

why hasn't he any,

any of the producers reached out to him for this?

I don't know.

I feel like,

I don't know.

I don't know.

But so I did,

I wrote down.

So Ryan says that he feels that can maybe,

He said maybe if... I feel like, I don't know.
I don't know. So I wrote down, so Ryan says that he feels that Ken may be, he said may be a threat to the marriage, right? I literally put an asterisk.
I said, he is a threat. Any outside influence causing friction in your marriage can rightfully be perceived as a threat.
So I am like fully, like no, Ken is a threat. And if it's not Ken, take Ken out, put somebody else doing the same shit.
They're also a threat, i am like fully like no ken is a threat and if it's not ken take ken out put somebody else doing the same shit they're also a threat right sometimes family can be a threat to your relationship friends can be a threat to your relationship like it we were just all having that conversation last night right like if someone does not support your situation it can cause all types of friction which who the hell would want that and then i put down like i would feel self-conscious in the gypsy ryan saga like if i was ryan i would feel self-conscious i would feel insecure she's not giving like she's doing exactly what you have talked about you doing in a previous relationship because she doesn't want to be with

him yeah so you're so like being able to see that so being able to see that I'm like you're not getting the validation you're not validating yourself and you're not getting validation from your partner so you're just out here like flying in the wind and that's probably the worst feeling well i see a lot of parallels in myself with Gypsy because this is exactly what I was doing. I was, it was like, okay, I'm not, this isn't really what I want anymore.
Like I kind of, I already have you. Like I, right when you're in prison and it feels long distance and, you know, it feels, it still feels like a chase, a thrill.
The newness is there. and then when you're in prison and it feels long distance and you know it feels it still feels

like a chase a thrill uh the newness is there and then when you're fully submerged into it and they have you they want you and all of the things you're like okay i'm gonna move on now that's exactly what's happening here if right like it's it's gone it's over i think if Ken wanted gypsy,

she'll get over that pretty quickly. it's gone.
It's over. I think if Ken wanted gypsy,

she'll get over that pretty quickly too. And so if they, if they end up together on this show or, and they're just not like saying it publicly right now, she'll move on.
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So then they end up getting the dog. get the dog i was like the last convo was no dog then all of a sudden they're getting all this dog stuff um i wrote down ryan definitely seems like he is the responsible party in this situation right like thinking through everything um when he was explaining about how he like wanted to build his own family because he didn't feel like he belonged or anything i said you know it feels him describing it feels like he didn't feel a sense of belonging growing up um and i did want to say gypsy did do a good job of preparing for the dog which kind of surprised me so i'm like she had to put a some research some thought into like all the things that you need because everything that ryan was like well do we have this or do we have that and she's like yep got this got that whatever like i was kind of impressed because it seemed like such a spur of the moment decision when she first was like i want a dog and i'm like okay but like what about all the things i've spoken with the dog so i was i never thought it was like a spur of the moment decision like i kind of just always was like, okay, they're getting a dog.
Like she's no offense, but like not working, not doing anything else. I would hope that she's going to like take it for walks around the neighborhood because I know a lot of people that live in apartments, they'll have them like go on the balcony, which can be tough.
I would guess that would be tough for like training. How do you train a dog to i don't know because it's like not grass i don't know but um it never felt she's had years to research how to do it how to have a dog is she actually because puppies are harder than children is that is she going but i think he has the dog they're broken up and and he left she left him with the dog well so it felt spur of the moment to me for the sole fact of like my like you have a big enough job being responsible for yourself and like re-acclimating to society so for me i was like why are you wanting to immediately come off and like it is a responsibility yes they're cute they're lovey they're cuddly they're whatever like great i love my dogs but me putting myself in her situation i don't think the first thing i would be doing is electing to like get a dog right like you have a marriage you should probably work one because it's you know what I mean so that's that felt weird but um my perspective was very

my get a dog right like you have a marriage you should probably work on because it's you know what i mean so that's that felt weird but um my perspective was very my perspective on the dog changed when i found out when ken at the end was showing his dog and how they talked about having one i'm like oh you're trying to create what you wanted with ken with ryan but you actually don't want to be with them so what are you doing because she's doing what I also did which is if I if I do all of these things my own feelings will change if I do all of these things I'll want to stay if I do all of these things I will fall in love if I do all of these things it'll be okay but it won't you you're really just going against everything. She knows she's not going to end up with Ryan.
She knows where her heart is. She knows all of those things, but she's trying to still, when I went up, I don't want to, I don't want to bring them up.
People are so sick of my divorce, talking about my divorce, but like I it wasn't right but i made it right and if i i thought if i convinced myself enough that it was right that it would be true um okay okay so i think that's really what it boils down to and also she's not really sure about the next step she's not sure about kenya she's not sure about where it's going so So like until you're positive, you have to get your ducks in a row. And I'm not saying that this is okay.
I'm just telling you like, I've fucking done it. So like, I know you're going to stay until you get your ducks in a row.
This was when the first time I tried to get divorced, the attorney literally said to me, I presented everything I had. This was post 2012 push on national television, right? Like this was post everything.
And I told her about that incident and I you know whatever she said you need to go back home you need to get your ducks in a row and then come talk to me in a couple months and I was like oh wow like okay like so I think that's what gypsy was doing um okay filming the argument was insane like even in my wildest moments of teen mom i would have never like them filming me argue is one thing but to film myself argue with someone is crazy that so i had mixed feelings on it so i kind of was like wow this is like real shit right like this is the shit that people want to watch right literally what i wrote this makes for good tv right like it makes for good tv that is the shit people want to watch that is real life we all go through if it's not the same topic we all are in our relationships at some point we all have disagreements all arguments all that stuff so that was one hand the other hand it felt kind of I felt like I was watching something that I shouldn't be right like it's that is typically something that's done in the privacy of your own relationship in your own home so I kind of was like oh like I appreciate it but I'm also feeling like I should not be watching this and then I also felt it was a little bit manipulative I didn't a little bit I didn't a little bit I mean I'm trying to be nice a lot of it a lot of it manipulative I didn't love it she kept cutting away from like what she was saying and then like she comes back at like and I can't say she did it it could have been editing I don't know but the way that it aired it kept cutting away from what she was saying until she and you could tell because she hit the spot where she was like well you're blah blah and I'm being defensive because and it's like okay but what happened before that what was what did you say before that to have Ryanyan being like but i'm right here like i'm not going anywhere because his feelings are valid everybody's feelings and no i didn't i didn't catch it she was basically saying like you're being like my mom i caught that but it seemed like there was a chunk missing from whatever which I which I know you can't air. However long that argument lasted, we don't know, right? So, like, you can't air the whole thing in this little bit of time.
Yeah. I just feel like there was something.
I just, we missed something. Something was not.
I want to see the shit that wasn't aired. Or, like, bonus clip, of Gypsy and Ryan's.
Bonus clips of her damn argument. So I wrote the argument between them is so valid.
He has every right to be upset with filming the conversation. But obviously we know that's a part of being on reality TV.
It sucks. But a regular argument, I just, I feel like the argument was very regular.
It didn't change my perception of their relationship. Cause I do feel like sometimes from my experience on reality TV, I think that one argument with a partner, with somebody can change how the viewers feel about both or one of the people.
And I don't think that that's necessarily fair. I think that just like you said, like arguments are very real.
It happens to it happens to all of us like i mean i told elijah he was getting on my nerves the other day like if they filmed that they would think i'm horrible you know what i mean like it's just like shit like that that i'm like he actually wasn't getting on like i was totally kidding but um i like said that to him so like that little argument could have changed everybody's feelings you know what i mean and so i don't love that um i said it sucks but it's a regular argument and that's not going to change gypsy 1000 manipulated the situation and i stand on that he was valid in how he felt about the conversation and that it should it should have been off camera with mia i do it's a it's a double-edged sword because you're on reality tv so these things have to come up or there's no substance to the show. There's no purpose of the show.
But I understand his position, especially because he's a teacher. But for her to be like, you're trying to control me.
You don't want me to talk to my family. That's not what his point was.
His point was saying for those conversations to be left off camera. And he is a teacher.
So like, those are valid. I just don't like that he was and and so he was like don't do that like when she was comparing him to her mom he was like don't do that i'm right here don't do that don't do that that was so fucking manip because you're manipulative that's not gaslighting yes it felt like she was gaslighting him and i literally wrote down gypsy was absolutely either choosing to not understand or actually did not understand what ryan's point was just literally don't do that on camera right like don't do here's the conversation she knew what his point was and i'm calling her out because i have been a bullshitter in my life and you cannot bullshit a bullshitter she knew what his point was but she had to manipulate the situation in order to get her way she knew what his point was and she knew she was in the wrong and that's why she's like i'm defensive because you're acting like my mom and blah, blah, blah.
No, you're being a dick.

And it was weird because, like, I totally understood what she was saying. Like, clearly she's very strongly, like, I do not want to be controlled.
She actually said, like, if I feel like I'm being controlled, I'm leaving. but in the same breath like i don't know how you felt about the whole like if we take it to the

whole situation right her getting schooled on plan b by Mia I was cracking up right so Mia was more stressed than gypsy about the possible pregnancy and I was laughing because I said this sounds like me and Kale yeah very much was like watching a dynamic like between you and I go down and I'm just like oh my god you know it felt I don't because I understand it appeared to me Mia had her best intention Gypsy's best intentions at heart with saying like no let's do this plan b situation how did how did that not feel controlling to Gypsy but ryan felt controlling because she knows what she's doing she's manipulating the situation and i told you she didn't feel like he was manipulating and controlling her but that's how she has to spin it in order to self-sabotage and have a reason to leave that's what she's doing she's she is setting everything up like correct she's leaving a little trail so that she can exit and and be justified instead of just being like i don't love you i want to be with somebody else she's setting up her justifications for beating him right that makes sense i did want to get your take on did when she said, word for word, I can't donate time to raising a child outlook. When she was having the conversation with Mia, they like had her talking and she said that.
And I literally was like, you are absolutely like coming from someone who does not have a child. If you're looking at motherhood and parenthood as donating time we're not ready absolutely not i don't know that gypsy should ever have well like i wrote down like why i'm i'm always into the why with every situation you know that i'm always asking like well why i asked you how many times how many times do i ask you on like a weekly basis like what's the what's the good parts about having kids what's the benefit of having kids right because i just want to know the why like why do people want kids why does a gypsy want a child that's just my i don't think she does i don't think she actually does so it's like a societal thing you think like yeah just like oh oh, I should.
She doesn't give me vibes of, like, actually wanting a child. I think that's just.
No. No.
It's ingrained in us as girls, little, like, children. And then even into adulthood.
I mean, you've been married for how long? And people are always asking you when you're going to have kids or if you're going to have kids.

And like, why is that even a point of conversation?

You have seen people struggle with villages and everyone claims to be a village until the child's here and then they don't want to help.

And that goes for family and friends alike.

Gypsy doesn't.

I don't know.

I don't think she actually wants kids.

I think that she's in a position where she wants to be free in a sense of like a relationship and like date and like do all of those things. I don't think she actually wants a kid right now.
Let's take it back to Christy and the 10 Gypsy's dad sitting down to talk. First thing that I wrote down was Christy is clearly having extensive communication with Ken if he's going to her to talk shit about press that Gypsy and Ryan are doing.
When the podcast got referenced and he and like she was saying how well Ken felt like this Ken felt like that so many people that like listeners and fans of Barely Famous kept saying like it's giving Mrs. Robinson vibes.
Who's that? And like as if like ken and um christy have a thing going on oh i said that last and i was like and i was just like it's feeling it's definitely gay you're having why anyone's upset i in my opinion ken is gay in my opinion yeah he's gay i don't i don't know this literally happened to me do you remember mike yeah wanted to be with me wanted to be with me wanted to be with me but then all these articles and tabloids started coming out and he sold stories about me and this that and that he actually gave me some of the money because he felt bad about what he did. And then his family didn't like me because I wasn't, I didn't like fit the mold.
Right. And then lo and behold, years and years and years later, I'm in California for work.
And he's like, hey, I just want to really apologize. I'm actually gay.
But like, he couldn't take the heat from all of the publicity. That's literally what he said.
Like I don't.

It was just like.

I don't know.

He's gay.

Ken, in my opinion, I think he's gay.

I would love to be a fly on the wall in you know gypsy's you know parents household with this situation going on because clearly christy and dad not aligned clearly so like dad wants to stay away and quiet it feels weird right it definitely feels different but with this one i don't know how you get past like how do you get past that when gypsy is fragile we'll say right like she's in a like a in a fragile state she's essentially mentally it feels like a child teenager we will even say whatever and it feels like her but who's acting as her mom who she knows as like a mom figure is doing things that are not in her best interest and her dad is like watching that happen and that's his spouse doing it yeah that would that would piss me off like if i'm like the roles are reversed and elijah was doing that to like isaac or lincoln you're not their biological father and you're encouraging disrespect with their spouse like that's just not something i could stand for especially after you know what i mean like and I feel like that sounds hypocritical coming from me because of all the shit that I've done in my life but also I've learned like like I can speak to it because I've done things like you know what I mean like I've done things that are not great so I feel like I have perspective on it I have experience with it and it's just not something that I'm willing to stand for. I don't know.
I'm glad that Rod was on Ryan's side. Rod was valid and correct, in my opinion, on the Christy and Ken situation, because he was just basically like, if something happens between them, it's going to be your fault.
And obviously, they're all adults, right? So when Mia, this is what really pissed me off. So Mia included, they're all adults, Rod, Christy, Ken,y ken ryan gypsy all five of them are adults albeit gypsy is not as mature as we would love her to be but um when mia didn't like ryan going to rod about the situation the same thing could be said for ken and christy why are you not giving christy mom, the same energy as Ryan? Because you know damn well your mom should not be talking to Gypsy's ex and setting that up for her.
Like, why are you, you don't say anything about that, but you're like, oh, Ryan shouldn't have gone to dad. So I felt conflicted because I've been in situations where I'll go to like one parent over like the one that I should be dealing with.
But that's more so like coming from a place of I want something to be received. Yeah.
Correctly. Right.
So it's I'm going to go to the person who knows you best to help me figure out if you're okay with it and it doesn't put you in a weird situation how do I get my thoughts feelings whatever across appropriately so they're received in the correct manner so I definitely saw that but at the same time I did say to myself like oh I wonder why he didn't because if it came down to a situation, if I was in this situation and Corey was being encouraged to go talk to an ex or have information fed to him about an ex and all this stuff and it definitely feels like you're trying to split us up, I would immediately go to the fucking source and I would be as disrespectful as possible. And I wouldny has gotten yeah she's gotten grace for what she's done i don't know how mia is okay with i think mia also doesn't really love ryan and gypsy says that she's like mia doesn't like you but she or she she doesn't not like you she's just iffy about you sometimes it's clear that she's not going to go against what her mom's doing because she doesn't really like ryan but that's not fair you don't get to do those things just because you don't like somebody that's not your decision to make that's not your that is not your right in my opinion um i i don't know i think i i wrote that down too because that was the first time we had confirmation of mia feeling like I know I had said I don't feel like any of them like Ryan I really I really didn't I feel like the dad was the most open to Ryan I feel like Mia and Christy don't fuck with him and I felt like that since episode one and Ryan coming out out of it seemed like the clear blue sky but we obviously know it wasn't ryan saying don't let me talk shit about me and but i know she's going to but here's what i had to say about that gypsy turns around shares that me likes ryan sometimes and sometimes is iffy why are we sharing and again i think it goes to immaturity in life in relationships whatever do not share what your family and your friends have to say about your partner because it is an absolute recipe for fucking disaster 100 don't do it don't say so and so doesn't like this one i'm gonna take that a step further let your family and friends.
Don't text about that because you don't know what the relationship dynamic is. And if people go through phones, you don't want your partner to be going through your phone for whatever reason they have and see what somebody in your family or your friends have said.
That is a private conversation in person. I know that everybody needs to vent.
I know that everybody is going to have their good and bad days. Every relationship is going to have their good and bad days.
Don't say how you feel about your person's partner over text because they will find out and it will be a huge point of contention in your relationship. So that's not fair.
I also, again, this whole situation, like I feel bad for Ryan because we've been there.

We know how that feels.

Like I cried to a lot about something similar not that long ago where I'm like, imagine nobody's in your corner and the other person's family doesn't like you.

Or not even not liked you, but has never treated you with respect or has said shit behind your

back. Like just, it's not a good place to be.
And then you withdraw and you're

still the problem. Yeah.
You're the problem. Cause you don't come around.
You're the problem

because of this, but it's like, you don't make me feel welcome. You don't make me feel comfortable.

I know the conversations you have about me. Like once you know too much, there is no going back

at all. And I think, you know, something that you definitely changed.
I, I can say is that

Thank you. there is no going back yeah at all and i think you know something that you definitely changed i i can say is that going into the relationship with elijah you were really careful to not spread any you know arguments anything like that amongst everyone right like you were super like I'm not going to take all of our bullshit and go say it to all these people again i'm just not going to because it didn't bode well in any of your past relationships well i think and other people knew like i feel like some of my friends i don't know if that's like a part of like getting older that you're like, okay, I have one friend that I might tell, like, but I don't even tell you, like if me and Elijah argue, I might not even tell, like, you know, I don't talk about my relationship to you.
I don't really talk about my relationship to anyone. If I do, I talk to you about it and that's it.
I don't need to have the same conversation about my relationship with everyone. I think it comes with maturity.
I think it comes with maturity. I think that that's something that you learn from.
I think it comes with maturity i think it comes with maturity i think that that's something that you learn from i think it comes with maturity it comes from getting older it comes from being in your relationships longer it comes from seeing the effects of doing that in previous relationships and clearly i feel the way that it appears is that gypsy has no problem talking about like why would christy feel the way she feels about ryan if she didn't know too much why would mia be iffy if she didn't know too much correct correct i think if gypsy would have kept her mouth shut which i think by her typically you already know, like I'm the same age as Gypsy.

So like, I know that now, um, my other relationship, I mean, even in the beginning with me and Elijah, I was saying too much. Um, that goes to prove like what we've been saying about like her maturity and stuff like that, if that makes sense.
um okay so the last thing that i wrote was that there's nothing to fuss about with ken because i don't think that ken is straight and i might get canceled for saying that it's my opinion and not necessarily a fact my gaydar was just going off um i had a guy like ken try to do all this when articles were written and his family didn't like me we obviously broke it off i actually wasn't serious about him anyway but he later came out to me and also apologized for various things very interesting how parallel our lives are um and that's really all i did not get to the i didn't get to watch the previews for the next episode so that'll be a nice little surprise for me but oh okay well When we saw the previews of Ken on the show i did not realize that he came on to this fucking show by himself it wasn't like oh i'm gonna meet up with gypsy and film with gypsy you're weird for that you're so fucking weird for that you're weird this this is gonna open up a can of worms okay this is gonna open up a can of worms. Okay.
This is going to open up a can because

so a couple of things before we get to like that part. So Gypsy admits, you know how we've been

like, okay, was it Ken that was pushing marriage? Was it Gypsy that was pushing marriage? Like we

weren't really sure. It was her.
Gypsy admits that she's pushed marriage, pushed the prison

wedding situation. Right.
Like, okay. Um, it came on the screen, like they did the text overlay thing, that producers reached out to Ken to come on to share his story.
Well, when they learned about him wanting to tell his story. Yes, but I wanted to get your take on that because i was wondering if it was done with gypsy's

knowing and with gypsy's permission or if it was done backdoor shady like something that

am i allowed to talk about what happened to me am i allowed to talk about what happened to me

do you care so i don't give a fuck i want to tell you all a little story i don't know if

i've ever said this on the podcast i made i maybe did maybe didn't i don't know

Thank you. do you care? So I don't give a fuck.
I want to tell you all a little story. I don't know if I've ever said this on the podcast.

I made,

I maybe did,

maybe didn't.

I don't know if you run it back to, I believe it was season one of teen mom too.

I'm living in Joe's parents' house in Easton,

Pennsylvania.

And I go meet Jordan at a park while I was living with Joe. I'm pretty sure Joe even dropped me off to that.
If I'm not mistaken, I did not want to do that. Like I had told the producers like, oh, I want to hang out with this guy.
But I was like, I should not be hanging out with him while I'm living in Joe's parents house. Like that should not be occurring.
I should not be doing this, I don't want to do it. Dia, she is a female producer.
She, I don't know if she was an executive producer at that time, told me that I had to do it. She told, she did not give me an option.
She even suggested that producers would drive me and they're not allowed. At the time, they were not allowed to drive talent.
She was like, you're doing this. Like, this is happening.
And I was like, no, I really don't want to do it. Like I don't want to get in trouble.
I don't like I had a conscience. Like I know I knew better.
And they said, well, you signed up for the show. They were not nice about it.
They were absolutely I could not remember the exact words that were said to me. But I know specifically she said, like, you have to do it.
We've already got the producers here. Like, we'll take you if we have to.
But like, you have to do this. And it was it was it felt now, especially like, obviously, it was uncomfortable in the moment.
And I felt like this is not going to end well for me. And it didn't.
Like, I still to this day see comments specifically on TikTok that are like, you know, the scenes come back and they're like, didn't she date someone else while she i didn't want to do that like that was not something that i wanted to do i i like i was definitely seeing someone but i didn't want to hang out with him while i was living there like that mean that's why i mean i wanted to get out not just for me and isaac but i also wanted to live my own life without i don't know it's just weird but like to force that, like, I just want to know what Gypsy's take is on that. And I don't, is she going to talk about it? Does she talk about it in the next episode?

um so seeing the previews it doesn't look like it but like they might just not put it in the previews i would have assumed that they would because it would have been like juicy

next episode i literally put previews look wild for the next episode so i'm very excited they're doing a very good job of keeping us wanting to watch in my opinion um i actually was also surprised like i was telling everybody that's here with me on vacation like what we're talking about what we're covering and they're like we didn't even know she had a show so so many people still have no idea that she has this reality show going on which is surprising to me um but we you know definitely recommend watching um just in terms of like what you just said about people not knowing i think that we have all gravitated to getting a lot of our news off of social media like tiktok and instagram. But even then you could follow someone and you never see their posts again.
What is the alternative to social media for advertising stuff like this? Because I do think that if more people, because people, one, when they find out about it, they don't know where or how to watch it. So there's no information out there on where Lifetime is besides we've said it on here, like Phil.
And I think I just said in the beginning of this episode, like you could potentially watch on Hulu. Where do you advertise to get people to watch? You know, that's that's a good I mean, social media, just the way that you see posts and stuff these days because they've messed with algorithms so many times like there's no good answer because you just miss it you just miss things the best thing that i can say is like if you like a creator you like you know anybody that you see on social media turn on notifications for their posts you don't miss stuff like i hate how it's left to the user.
I'm not a fan of that.

But the previews do look insane.

I'm genuinely curious.

When I was sent, I didn't know if he wanted to say anything in regards to production reaching out to chris because that's what i was talking about oh i thought you were talking about how they forced me to oh my god that one works too but um i feel like that would be a good take because you weren't asked about that well so when chris and i were together and i'm gonna tread lightly when i say together because in my mind we were together but in his mind after his deposition now i know how he felt he uh he never really believed he was ever with me um he would tell me what i wanted to hear. And that's part of like the gaslighting, right? So like he would be like, Oh, yeah, I'll do teen mom for the right price.
So in my mind, I'm advocating for someone who wants to be on the show. And I have to say this in order to get where we're getting around to only because if I don't say this, he'll come back and be like, Oh, that's not how it went.
So I want to tell the full picture. It's like we had meetings with Larry and I'm negotiating for Chris because Chris is telling me that he wants to be on the show.
And then every single number that Larry was throwing out, Chris was like, no, it's not good enough. It's not good enough.
It's not good enough. So then he ultimately still didn't do it, which was really fucking weird.
And then I'm talking about leaving the show. And now all of a sudden the producers go behind my back or around, not behind my back.
They go around me, even though I was advocating for him to be on the show and get him on the show without telling me, without just giving me a heads up, without anything. Like I never, and that would be fine if that's the show that I signed up for, right? Like if you, it's sort of like a typical business model when you run your own business is like, make your employees happy.
So they want to come here. So they want to be here, right? Like it can't just be about the numbers because money can only make you happy for so long.
Like money does my happiness, but only for a short time. So that's kind of kind of where i was and so for you guys i say you guys but for producers to go around me at that point because they were desperate and grasping at straws i feel wasn't really fair and i had been advocating for him to be on the show the entire time so fuck you but also it was dirty for him to do it with like ken it was dirty for ken to do it without having that conversation with gypsy if it if there wasn't one it was also dirty for chris to do it without having a conversation with me when i was advocating for you the whole fucking time and you know and i get it it's like um kind of like the nature of, right? In the industry, I would say transparency is extremely lacking in 99.9% of the industry.
Um, as far as

like, especially reality is concerned. I feel like that's where a lot of transparency is a huge,

huge problem. Um, that being said, I really want to know if Gypsy knew.
I want to know if Gypsy

knew. And this kind of leads into my next question.
A ton of people were writing in after you sort of a little bit talked about how things might be filmed and not air in order. I wonder if like Ken coming in was actually filmed at the end, but placed in here and they had already spoken or something.
yeah I mean that, that's what we have to keep it. When we see Gypsy with Ken on the show, we got to, we got to look at her hair and we'll know.
Yeah. Can you talk a little bit more about kind of the backend process of how that, how everything works? Like how do you go from filming to what you see on the show in your experience obviously we don't know what it looks like for gypsies but could be so probably is similar when i was filming we had like set a set number of hours slash days that we were allowed to film for a season and then when before you start filming the season you kind of tell do a rundown with the producers like what what you have going on so they can sort of start to develop story arc and episodes that would make sense in chronological order now with that being said in real life things come up things change you know things don't always play out the way that you planned for.
So in the course of filming, something might happen in the beginning of the

season. real life, things come up, things change, you know, things don't always play out the way that you planned for.
So in the course of filming, something might happen in the beginning of the season in the beginning where you start filming, but it doesn't necessarily fit the puzzle, but they want to use it. So they'll place something that happened in January and they'll place it in June on the timeline.
So that's why haircuts and things might be different. They also might, and I don't, I can't speak for lifetime.
So I've never worked for lifetime reality TV. Sometimes you have to go back to finish a scene or complete a story arc.
So typically in every episode, it's like, something's going to happen. Something happens.
Something happens after the fact, like what happened after the fact. So there's a story arc.
That's the three points. Sometimes they miss one of those pieces.
And so they realize in editing as a whole for all eight or 10 or 12 episodes, however many you have in a season, oh shit, we're missing a huge chunk. So now we need you to go back and rehab these conversations.
And so in that way, it's scripted, but it's not really scripted. It's like, you're just filling in something that already happened, but it didn't necessarily happen that way.
So they're going to take this thing that was filmed in June, and your hair might be shorter, but we're going to go place it in January now, because we had only two of the three pieces of the puzzle.

People were like looking for insight into that. So, you know, you talked about it a little bit.
I think it was on the episode before this one. And people were like, they liked the insight to see what it is.
Could you, looking at this episode to make it make more sense for people, could you identify what the you know before it happens what happened and after it happened from this episode in my opinion they finished the dog conversation because sometimes they do and sometimes they don't do that so like not all episodes are gonna go like episode one might not have anything to do with episode three but here they did a really good job by finishing the story arc from the previous episode about the dog so the dog comes full circle right so that they finish that in the episode but they i think in my opinion this was all about ken so it was okay me and ryan are having unprotected sex being a little irresponsible then the second arc was ken is a threat to our relationship and then now ken is speaking up so that was like in my opinion the fault like we're setting the the instability in ryan and gypsy's relationship enter ken ken shows up so now the next episode and i didn't watch the previews because i didn't have time um but my guess is that gypsy probably sees ryan or there's some sort of maybe she finds out that that um ken is filming and back in the picture i don't know but what was in the previews um so in the previews obviously ken comes on it i should have wrote down more than just previouss look wild but um i know ken comes on they're they're talking like about plans that ken and gypsy had right so like they do that right up until they hit the previews so it's like he has like a dog but doesn't name it the name that they were going to name it together but still has like the dog they want it was just like a weird situation um him like wanting to share his story blah blah blah it looks like gypsy and ryan are still having more problems which that's what i was going to ask you too like just because this is what we're seeing and this is what like the overall storyline is that doesn't mean that gypsy and ryan didn't get filmed having a really great day it just didn't fit to make sense is that correct correct so the producers and forgotten too is that so the biggest thing that i can stress to people who watch reality tv and who are curious about how the inner workings play go into effect and like work out no matter how something happens they they have to make it make sense for viewers so it may not have happened that way it happened but it might not happen the way it's depicted but because it that's how it makes sense to the viewers and what they got on camera that's how they have to play it and so that's essentially how i was getting why i was getting upset you know when i was on tv towards the end and I had a voice and I realized I could speak against the producers because in the beginning you feel like, oh, my God, I can't speak up. I can't say, you know, I thought that I had to do certain things.
But towards the end, I was like, I don't have to do that because you simply said I had to. Like, that's just not how this works.
It has to make sense for the viewers. So I'm trying to think of a situation of I filmed that was like, oh, this is how it makes sense.
I think it was when I was flipping Larry off. Me and Larry were actually having a really good conversation that day.
But the way that it played out for it to make sense and be foreshadowing my exit to Teen Mom, people were like, she was horrible to the producer. No, me and Larry were actually having having a great conversation that day but like off camera and not off camera but like they broke the fourth wall which they don't normally do unless there was a scenario like that that's how it would played to make sense oh kale and the producers are not getting along but that's not entirely true there was more to it does that make sense like you know what was going on because you were there firsthand, but it has to make sense to the viewers.
Yeah. Yeah.
Since I've worked with you and known you, I'm more interested in the behind the scenes of it than I am of like actually watching a TV show. So this one's actually kind of fun for me because I stopped watching reality TV after probably the first like two years we were friends.

I stopped watching reality TV.

Just as I was like, it's not real.

I'm not like a Vanderpump girl.

I'm not didn't get when Jersey Shore resurged into like Jersey Shore vacation or whatever the hell it is.

Didn't watch that.

I would only turn my tv on because I had

cable and it helped ratings for when teen mom was on I would like turn the wall because you just support your friends and whatever they're doing but like I didn't in my opinion though teen mom was while I was on it I can only speak while I don't I have not seen it since I left I have not watched one single episode um while I was on Teen Mom I will say that that was the most real reality show that I had seen filmed because they are taking real life scenarios and and and filming them to like I'll talk shit until I'm blue in the face right but like I will give them credit where credit is due and I do think that they did a good job doing the best to make it as close to what was actually happening as possible. So like, if you ask me, was Teen Mom scripted? No, it wasn't.
If you ask me, you know, was that? Yes. Like those are, I made poor choices.
Like the, you can't, they didn't make that up. Like I was making poor choices.
I do think that sometimes editing makes things like not real but still real and I don't even know how to describe it and I will see that well they do pigeonhole you and so they pick and choose what's worth filming for that pigeonholed role um do I think that I was the queen of bad choices and that I'm the villain in real life at all times no i don't feel that way do i i i don't think that my life revolves around my baby daddy's like i don't think that that's accurate but that those things are still happening they just they focused on that so it seems like that was the only thing going on. Does that make sense?

Yes. And that is the part when I say, I feel like it's not real.
That's what I mean. Like, I feel like if you, unless you're going to paint and I, and I don't even know what the possible way to do this is, but unless you're going to paint a full picture, to me, it just feels like not genuine it feels like okay while these things can exist so can this all of this but all of this doesn't fit into whatever for the creative team decided was going to be your season correct for each person correct and that's why that's the part that i was i was advocating for my own show because I felt like I had it wasn't just my baby daddies right like it was there was so much more to my story that I do feel like I have enough for my own show even if it's only 30 minutes versus an hour I feel like I do have enough because my life doesn't like that is a part of my life but it's not my the only like I don't spend my days and my weeks literally planning around my baby daddies I don't even talk to them on most days any of them except for Elijah like I literally this entire week since Sunday at drop off I have not had one word with any of my baby dads and it's Thursday so like my life doesn't revolve around it's a very small part of it and so like obviously know, like things are happening behind the scenes, like in real life with me right now.
And I hope that if anything does eventually come together and work out that I'm able to tell a more full picture of what goes on, like the inner workings that, you know, the baby daddy thing is just one day of the entire week. You know what I mean? So, but I will say that all being said, I think that Lifetime is doing a really good job at telling the full story of Gypsy's reality, right? Because even though it might not be in order in terms of like chronological order, I do think that they're telling the, because when you get out of jail and you do have a sister and you, you get closer to your, your sister and your step mom and your dad, and you have this, like you are going to talk to those family members about your marriage and you are going to argue with your husband and you are going to maybe put your ducks in a row to lead the situation.
You're going to self-sabotage. You're going to make bad decisions.
Like I think that lifetime is doing a really good job in telling the story as close to it with the most accuracy like i think they're doing a good job well i do just because we don't like it doesn't mean it's not accurate so correct i correct i agree um that all being said that's all i have for the gypsy rose episode five so we're on this is episode five there's only three episodes left we'll see if she gets a season i'm gonna guess she's gonna get a season two um because we need to see how the divorce plays out and then um because i don't think they're divorced yet and we're watching like i said in the beginning of the episode we're watching on philo it drops mondays i think you can also pop possibly stream on hulu and then we cover every week and we'll be doing that for the next, I guess, for the rest of this month.

And then we'll see what show we're going to cover next.

And you'll have some good guests, which will be good.

Oh, yeah.

I think August is going to be the end of this month and August are going to be a really good, they're going to be really good for the podcast.

So I'm excited.

Thank you for joining us.

And I'll see you at the beach in about 20 minutes.