Life After Lock Up - Is This My Life?

Speaker 1 Extra value meals are back. For just $5, get a savory and sweet sausage, egg, and cheese McGriddles, plus hash browns and a coffee.
Only at McDonald's.

Speaker 2 For limited time only, prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska, and California, and for delivery.

Speaker 4 Every holiday shopper's got a list, but Ross shoppers, you've got a mission. Like a gift run that turns into a disco snow globe, throw pillows and PJs for the whole family, dog included.

Speaker 4 At Ross, holiday magic isn't about spending more, it's about giving more for less.

Speaker 3 Ross, work your magic.

Speaker 5 Hi, I'm William Googe, a Vuri collaborate and professional ultra runner from the UK. I love to tackle endurance runs around the world, including a 55-day, 3,064-mile run across the US.

Speaker 5 So I know a thing or two about performance wear. My go-to daily short is the core short from Vuri.

Speaker 5 It's perfect for my daily run in the gym, strength training, or even when I'm taking a day off, relaxing, doing some stretching, and recovering the best way I can.

Speaker 5 Check them out by visiting viewery.com/slash William.

Speaker 5 That's v-u-o-r-i.com slash William, where new customers can receive 20% off their first order, plus enjoy free shipping in the US on orders over $75 and free returns. Exclusions apply.

Speaker 5 Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

Speaker 6 Welcome to the shit show. Things are going to get weird.

Speaker 6 It's your fae villain, Kale Lower.

Speaker 6 And you're listening to Barely Famous.

Speaker 6 All right, fuckers, we're back with episode three of Gypsy Rose: Life After Lockup. And this show has been quite the ride.

Speaker 7 It honestly, it really has. And it's funny because I don't know about you, but I got halfway through the episode and I was like, nothing is like really great.
And then I started thinking about stuff.

Speaker 7 Like, nothing dramatic happened in this episode,

Speaker 7 but I have like deep questions to ask.

Speaker 6 Oh, same. I wrote lots of questions.
So that's really interesting. I do also, I want to, um,

Speaker 6 I want to acknowledge the Yahoos.

Speaker 6 Um, I loved that Ryan referred to the trolls as Yahoos, and I just, I don't know, I feel like that should be the new term.

Speaker 7 Can we call them that? We'll adopt it. The Yahoos,

Speaker 6 yeah, we're copying Ryan, he's a trendsetter, they're Yahoos, they're nothing other than Yahoos. That's it.

Speaker 7 I love the trendsetter.

Speaker 7 I do, I do love it. Um,

Speaker 7 I instantly instantly started dying laughing when she did the clapback of The D is Fire because I remember that taking over social media and everyone's reactions, like cracking up laughing, and then just like

Speaker 7 seeing her and like knowing how she acts. And then like Ryan now, and then like I was dying laughing.
I was dying.

Speaker 6 The D is fire when I saw that in real time over TikTok and I was just like, she

Speaker 6 was going hard for him. And all of the creators that were like

Speaker 6 you know there's so many creators especially on tick tock that have such big personalities and when they were like reacting to it it made it even funnier so the fact that lifetime included those takes into the show was everything i absolutely loved it i loved it i thought that was phenomenal um i also was cracking up laughing because i have never related harder to something that they've done except until they hit the we're not packing our whole life scenario when gypsy was like yelling to ryan like don't pack your whole life because i feel like typically women get a bad rap for being the ones to overpack so it was just funny seeing the role reversal and then also like that's me i overpack for fucking everything well i i loved that part it almost felt like gypsy was the partner and ryan was the one that was the famous person so but gypsy going back to the the de is fire i was cracking up because

Speaker 6 So Gypsy obviously felt the urge, the strong urge to defend her man, right? Like, and that's pretty normal.

Speaker 6 I think when you love someone, you want to defend them and you want to like scream from the mountaintops, like, what's true and what's not true. And, like, I've seen that even in friends.

Speaker 6 So, kudos to Gypsy for really defending him. But

Speaker 6 I really also want to acknowledge

Speaker 6 how seamless Gypsy is making the transition seem. And I know, like, on her insides, that, like, in her mind and her body and her soul, it's probably not as seamless as it's coming across.

Speaker 6 But we really haven't seen a whole lot of like

Speaker 6 dysfunction, or like I would assume that someone that went to jail for murder in her situation and then comes out an overnight celebrity through jail, through documentaries, through interviews and podcasts, and now her own show.

Speaker 6 I,

Speaker 6 she really hasn't, it's been pretty seamless.

Speaker 6 Like, there's been, I haven't seen anything that's like gypsy fucking up, gypsy slipping up, gypsy saying the wrong thing, gypsy do like I really haven't seen any of that.

Speaker 7 No, I mean, I would agree with you. And I think that she's doing a good job of outwardly staying cool, calm, and collected so that it gives that appearance.

Speaker 7 Who knows what's like really going on inside? But even when she was talking about being like, I'm so nervous over her PO meeting, like, I wouldn't have been able to tell unless she said it.

Speaker 6 Or even like the view. But when she went on the view, she was on good morning, Good Morning America.

Speaker 6 So I thought that was really interesting because I don't know, maybe she just got like such a big taste of it in prison while she was doing documentaries and things like that. Maybe that was it.

Speaker 6 I also, we don't really know, I guess, if she's had, if she had any sort of coaching prior to this, if she knew that she was going to come out and film a reality show.

Speaker 6 So that, I guess that might be possible. But I think she's doing a really good job.
She hasn't had any like PR crises, I don't feel.

Speaker 7 No, I don't, not that I

Speaker 7 think nothing from directly her. Obviously, like people like taking things she says and spinning them, like whatever that happens all the time, but nothing directly coming from her.
I would say no.

Speaker 7 When she kept, when she was talking about how she's so nervous about going back, like she's obviously repeated that so many times, but I truly wonder how many people that are out on parole struggle with that, like same thought that like they could go back at any time.

Speaker 6 Well, and that was something that I also noted, like she doesn't want to fuck up at all.

Speaker 6 So a common theme and things that I keep hearing or comment, like people are commenting is, and even on the the show, like some of the TikTokers were saying, like, Gypsy's going to find herself in trouble.

Speaker 6 She's going to get herself in trouble. Where? Why, why are people saying that?

Speaker 6 Because I don't, outside of like the potential of taking a picture and there might be alcohol in the picture that she maybe didn't like think to like double over to like look at I don't see herself getting into trouble in a way that's going to send her back to prison I just don't

Speaker 7 yeah I would love to know what the terms of her parole are because I feel like

Speaker 7 I don't know. And I'm thinking, and I don't think that anyone knows what the terms are.
So for people to make assumptions like she's going to fuck up and go back to prison, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 7 I was thinking the same thing. I wish that they would have allowed lifetime in the parole meeting.
Like, I wish that they would have let it be filmed.

Speaker 7 I obviously understand why it wasn't, but I was surprised that Ryan was not able to go in.

Speaker 7 I thought that was weird to me because I guess for me, I'm like, shouldn't he also know the do's and don'ts as her partner to support her not doing the wrong thing or like maybe him fucking up and doing something that could get her in trouble?

Speaker 7 Like, I just would have thought, like,

Speaker 7 I could, I guess, I could understand if it was a friend, but it's her husband.

Speaker 6 Yes, and no, I guess I see that point now that you've like explained, but also, it's her responsibility to relay the message, you know what I mean? So, like, she's an adult.

Speaker 6 This isn't like a minor situation where, like, the parent is coming in. This is an adult that made the fuck up.
So, she should know better than to put herself, like,

Speaker 6 whether it's Ryan or any other spouse, like, you know, know better than to put your, your spouse in a position where it could get them in trouble, right? Like, you know better.

Speaker 7 I didn't even think the having a photo in front of alcohol was a thing. Like I didn't know, I didn't put two and two together that that could get you in trouble with your parole officer.

Speaker 6 That was one of my questions because it wasn't a drug or alcohol-related crime,

Speaker 6 but maybe because it's like something that could cause impairment, maybe that would be like lead somebody to make

Speaker 6 not great decisions. Maybe that was why.
Um, and so I wrote that she could not be around alcohol and to double-check backgrounds of pictures and stuff.

Speaker 6 I do that on a regular basis, and I've never been to prison. Um, but I thought

Speaker 6 backgrounds for well, I checked the backgrounds for every little now before I didn't, but like I've seen people get um called out for like,

Speaker 6 and I'm not saying it was cocaine, but like cocaine on the counter. And you're like, you don't even really know if that's cocaine.

Speaker 6 So like I have PTSD from stuff like that, or like, accidentally almost doing, I don't know, just weird, whatever. Um, but I did think it was interesting that two states had supervision over her.

Speaker 6 And I just feel like all of this was so unnecessary. I, she served eight and a half years, and we know that she's never going to really be able to live a regular life, right?

Speaker 6 Like, we know that, but to put two states on her like that, I do feel is a little bit overkill.

Speaker 7 So, I was confused by that because I literally wrote down then, why was there such an issue that she was required to leave Missouri so quickly if both states were going to continue supervising her?

Speaker 7 Like, why was it this bums rush? Like, you have to get to Louisiana right now.

Speaker 7 What was the problem then? If you also had responsibility over her, what was the fucking actual problem from episode two?

Speaker 6 Well, and

Speaker 6 actually messaged me giving some

Speaker 6 insight. So hold on, let me see what if I can find the message because

Speaker 6 she works in probation or she used to work in probation and she wanted to give some insight on it. So, give me one second while I pull it up.
Okay,

Speaker 6 did you guys ever get Gypsy Rose's story figured out for Barely Famous? I was dying laughing, listening to the confusion.

Speaker 6 Gypsy was arrested and housed in Missouri because that's where the crime took place.

Speaker 6 Gypsy and her mother left Louisiana after the Hurricane Katrina and lived in Springfield, Missouri when Dee Dee was murdered. Louisiana is involved because that's where Ryan lives.

Speaker 6 And if I'm not mistaken, her father lives there as well. When you get out of prison, you need a parole plan.
and Gypsy more than likely had to apply to Louisiana to become a paroleee in that state.

Speaker 6 Louisiana could have said no altogether about her moving there, but obviously didn't.

Speaker 6 Missouri wanted Gypsy out of the state ASAP because it's a jurisdictional nightmare if she were to have violated parole on Missouri soil because of the agreement already in place with Louisiana.

Speaker 7 I'm still confused, though, because she just got done saying that two states are supervising her. So that's

Speaker 6 only

Speaker 6 a judge. jurisdiction

Speaker 6 but maybe they had to do the dual state thing so that it all bases were covered in the event that she did violate parole on one in one of to make it less nightmare ish if she were to violate parole in louisiana they could take care of it if she were to violate parole in missouri they would be able to handle it it wouldn't be a jurisdict jurisdictional nightmare if you know what i mean like it sounds to me like the easier thing would for for both of them to have

Speaker 6 like say.

Speaker 7 I guess it, I just, it threw me, but I also was thrown off when she said that she was fingerprinted, handprinted, and got her DNA taken. Didn't they already have that from like her being in prison?

Speaker 7 So why the hell would you do it again?

Speaker 6 Probably because of the jurisdiction, because it's in Missouri, but it wasn't in Louisiana. If the crime

Speaker 6 paper, so like, send the paper, but it's all, ah, I guess. I mean, I guess, but like, that was the problem.
But no, because, like, when I went to jail here in Delaware, all my

Speaker 6 mugshot and my fingerprints are here in Delaware.

Speaker 6 But if I go commit a crime in California, they have to take my mug shot and my fingerprints again, even though another state already has my fingerprints. You get what I'm saying?

Speaker 6 So I think it's more of a situation like that.

Speaker 6 When they were going through all of their like flight-ish stuff, I literally wrote it down.

Speaker 6 I said, I miss flights all all the time, so I can relate to this.

Speaker 7 I said, is this how you feel? I literally said, cutting close to the flight, Cale, is this how you feel?

Speaker 6 A hundred percent. Because it's like, I was

Speaker 6 simultaneously gypsy and Ryan, where Ryan's like, no, we're not going to make it. Like, we're not, it's not going to happen.
Like, we're, she's like, we're going to do our best.

Speaker 6 Like, that's my internal battle. Like, my right and left side of the brain.
It's like, we're going to do our best. We're going to just get on it.
We'll take our carry on.

Speaker 6 And then Ryan's like, we're not. No, we're not.
And that's literally the internal conflict that I had in my brain. I miss flights once a month, so I could totally resonate with this.

Speaker 6 And I'm not even menace Ryan for getting frustrated in that way because there is nothing more frustrating than knowing you're going to miss your flight and then missing your flight.

Speaker 6 But then they didn't. So, like, good for them.

Speaker 7 I literally said Ryan is so frustrated. I've been there, done that.

Speaker 7 That is Corey and I, anytime we travel, or not even if we're traveling together, but if he's trying to get me out the door to like meet you at the airport or something, never fails.

Speaker 7 I'm never prepared, no matter how much I prepare ahead of time to like get out the house. No, absolutely the fuck not.

Speaker 7 No, then I just, I couldn't fall anybody in that situation because that dynamic is me and Corey.

Speaker 6 Gypsy was so cool. Like, she's aside from a couple times crying, like, just up until episode three, she seems to be very, like, mellow, like, cool, calm, and collected about most things.

Speaker 6 Like, even when she was upset about him, like, um, about the dog situation,

Speaker 6 she kind of kept her cool pretty. I mean, she might have had an attitude, but like, she didn't raise her voice, she's not getting all hostile, you know what I mean?

Speaker 7 So, I was wondering, and it doesn't matter to me either way. Like, if people are on medication, I don't give a shit.
Like, do what you got to do for yourself.

Speaker 7 I kind of was wondering if maybe she's on some type of medication that is like a mood stabilizer just from the amount of trauma that she's been through.

Speaker 7 Or on the other flip side, I was like, do we think she might just be like

Speaker 7 disassociating? Or do we think that's just her personality?

Speaker 6 Maybe a combo.

Speaker 7 Just like all of it, yeah.

Speaker 6 Because I, I mean, I'm impressed. I mean, she also

Speaker 6 knows that there's a camera in her face, so I don't, but then again, I've lashed the fuck out, right? So, and it was almost, it almost exacerbated the

Speaker 6 like it's overwhelming, like, when you, because,

Speaker 6 yeah, I mean, it's over, I don't know, good for her.

Speaker 6 But so, I also wrote down that I loved that they broke the fourth wall when they were doing like their interviews and Good Morning America, The View, and then the bio files.

Speaker 6 Um, I really loved that they broke the fourth wall. And I cannot stress to you, to Lifetime and other production companies enough.
Like,

Speaker 6 as someone who came from reality TV, but also consumes reality TV,

Speaker 6 I love when they do that while filming, and I also love watching it as a consumer because it humanizes the people and it also just makes it more,

Speaker 6 like, it feels more personal. And so, I do love that they did that.
And I also wrote down that I thought she was really well spoken in a lot of these interviews, even when

Speaker 6 they introduced her on the view, and that one woman with the, I just stuttered

Speaker 6 the one woman with red hair that introduced her and like kind of tripped her up on what she was trying to say, and like sort of twisted her words before she really got to say what she wanted to say.

Speaker 6 She still held her composure and was very well spoken. So, I wrote, Who Trained Her? Because that's not something that you just know how to do

Speaker 8 As the holidays approach, get what you need to personalize your home with Wayfair. You guys know I love Wayfair.

Speaker 8 I did my camper in Wayfair, the playroom, my living room, all of the things they have: bedding, bath basics, kids' rooms, home decor, kitchen essentials, living room refresh, whatever you're looking for, they have it.

Speaker 8 And Wayfair's huge selection of home items in every single style makes it easy to find exactly what you're looking for.

Speaker 8 And if you're on a budget like I am these days, you can shop there with a budget in mind.

Speaker 8 There's something for every style and every home, no matter what your space or budget is, and they make it easy to tackle your home goals this holiday season with endless inspiration for every space.

Speaker 8 They do have easy and free delivery too, even on the big stuff. So no more huge delivery fees for furniture.

Speaker 8 You guys can get big things like sofas, dining tables, beds, desks, and more shipped for free.

Speaker 8 And you can find all of your seasonal must-haves from furniture and holiday decor to appliances and cookware all in one convenient place. Hosting just got a lot easier this year.

Speaker 8 Get organized, refreshed, and ready for the holidays for way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home.
That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Wayfair, every style, every home.

Speaker 9 November is all about gathering, friends giving feasts, Thanksgiving dinners, and football weekends.

Speaker 9 Total Wine and More has everything you need for your table and your toast with thousands of wines, spirits, and beers at the lowest prices.

Speaker 9 From bold reds to sparklers, you'll find the perfect wines to raise a glass this season.

Speaker 9 And when it comes to spirits, Total Wine has you covered from smooth bourbons and tequilas to all the essentials for your holiday cocktails.

Speaker 9 Hosting Thanksgiving, Total Wine's guides make it easy by taking out the guesswork.

Speaker 9 With the lowest prices for over 30 years, you'll always find what you love and love what you find only at Total Wine and more.

Speaker 9 Curbside pickup and delivery available in most areas. See TotalWine.com for details.
Spirits not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly.
B21.

Speaker 10 Do your work with ease and speed. PDF spaces is all you need.
Do hours of research in an instant. With key insights from an AI assistant.
Pick a template with a click.

Speaker 10 Now your Prezo looks super slick. Close that deal, yeah, you won.
Do that, doing that, did that, done.

Speaker 10 Now you can do that, do that, with Acrobat. Now you can do that, do that.
With the all-new Acrobat. It's time to do your best work with the all-new Adobe Acrobat Studio.

Speaker 7 What really got me was just like, she literally was like, oh, I got out of prison a week ago.

Speaker 7 And like the massive adjustment period, like the massive adjustment you would think would require such a long period of time.

Speaker 7 So I was like, I don't know how you're dealing with this because I don't, I would be like crying, screaming, throwing up, pooping. Like, I don't know.
It just would be like all of the above.

Speaker 7 Um, I really thought it was cool that they started to introduce like her wanting to do advocacy work. Um,

Speaker 7 I think that was cool. And I was laughing when they were like, I said, having to say murder is wrong had me rolling because just the way that that played out was like, you did what you had to do.

Speaker 7 And I'm like,

Speaker 7 what you just said? Like.

Speaker 6 Well, I think there was a little bit of buzz around that whole incident, right? Like there was like,

Speaker 6 but that's why I was like, the woman with the orange hair, she could have just like chilled out and let Gypsy speak what she was trying to say because she kind of tripped herself up.

Speaker 6 Um, Ryan talking to the people out there about um

Speaker 7 like the fans on the street, we have lots of places to be, and so I said Ryan likes the attention for sure.

Speaker 7 Like, I literally wrote he likes the fame and attention, yeah, because I'm sitting here and I'm like looking at the dynamic, and I'm like, you could tell Gypsy is the more reserved one, and he is the more outgoing personality, I would say, and like the one enjoying this.

Speaker 7 I think. Um, I also thought when she said that Ken is a private person, and she thinks that that was really the downfall.
I am so curious to see what his involvement is in the show.

Speaker 7 Come like, because that doesn't make sense to me.

Speaker 7 If he, if you're claiming he ended the engagement with you because he's private, but then he's going to be on the show because y'all are doing whatever you're doing. I'm very intrigued.

Speaker 7 And I also was kind of thinking, like, comparing it to Elijah, he is not,

Speaker 7 he's a private person too.

Speaker 7 He didn't break up with you. You know what I mean?

Speaker 6 Okay, so two things on that. Obviously, you know that we're working on something project.

Speaker 6 I

Speaker 6 want part of that project to be he, Elijah, he looks mad all the time.

Speaker 6 And so it can come off different than what it actually is, especially to for reality TV or anything that's similar to that, right?

Speaker 6 So it makes me nervous to throw him in the way that Gypsy and Ryan were thrown in, but it seems to me that Gypsy has the personality. Ryan does seem to have the personality for it.

Speaker 6 And so, like, Elijah doesn't. So, he, I do worry about that.
Like, I don't know how it's going to come across to viewers and consumers.

Speaker 6 And I'm not going to leave him over it, but like, I also want to show that development because for some people, it doesn't come easy like it did for Gypsy and for Ken, or not Ken, for Ryan.

Speaker 6 Now, I did also write down: do we believe that Ken didn't like the fame and attention? Because if that's the case, why are you back?

Speaker 6 That's, I think he was getting negative attention and he was probably

Speaker 6 doing it for all the wrong reasons. That this is just my take on it.
I think he was doing it for all the wrong reasons. And when,

Speaker 6 because

Speaker 6 they are an odd couple when you look at them.

Speaker 7 My take was that he was fucking around on the side. So when it became public knowledge that they were engaged, he broke it off because he had somebody else.

Speaker 6 I need to Google Ken

Speaker 6 from

Speaker 6 what's his. Do we know his last name?

Speaker 7 I don't.

Speaker 6 There's something off about him.

Speaker 6 And it's like

Speaker 6 creepy off. Are they back together?

Speaker 7 That's what the.

Speaker 7 Yes, that's why I can't wait to see his intro to the show.

Speaker 7 I just.

Speaker 6 Something is not right.

Speaker 7 So I'm very intrigued in that situation to see. I don't know.

Speaker 7 It just

Speaker 7 is weird.

Speaker 6 I'm like looking at all these pictures. I don't know.

Speaker 6 They seem like,

Speaker 6 what is the word I'm looking for for like to describe? Not an odd couple, but

Speaker 7 yes, odd. Strange.

Speaker 6 I don't know what's going on here. I just like googling pictures.
I don't know. I think he's in it for the wrong reasons.

Speaker 6 I think he saw that the fame and attention that he was getting from, you're right.

Speaker 6 I think that when it got public, it fucked something up for him because that's what happened to me when I announced who my kid's father was.

Speaker 6 Here goes everybody finding out. He didn't, he never wanted me to tell because he had other shit going on.
So I think the same could be said here.

Speaker 6 And then turn around and he's like, oh, I actually do like the fame and attention, which is also similar to my situation. Love that for us.

Speaker 7 Showing her walking around New York City,

Speaker 7 going from prison to New York City, I was like, that must be the epitome of overwhelming. Like, there is no more overwhelming place that you could have gone out, like, besides New York City.

Speaker 7 So, I was just like,

Speaker 7 she thought it was so cool. She wasn't bothered.
She didn't, it just, again, she just seemed cool, calm, and collected.

Speaker 7 It didn't seem overwhelming to her, but like, in my brain, I'm like, there is no way that you went from four walls

Speaker 7 to this.

Speaker 7 And, like,

Speaker 7 it's not like she experienced the world before she went to prison.

Speaker 6 I'm curious to to know because when I got my nails done yesterday, my nail tech, I love him because he always gives like lessons and stuff.

Speaker 6 And he was talking about the prison system in Vietnam and how people here in prison are like actually have it really well, like made really well.

Speaker 6 Not saying that there's no dysfunction and that there doesn't need to be, you know, advocacy work and prison reform. I'm not saying that.
But he was like compared to the prisons in Vietnam.

Speaker 6 So maybe, and also let's not forget that Gypsy said she was free in prison. Like that's the freest she had ever been up until she got released.

Speaker 6 So, to her, maybe there it wasn't that big of an adjustment because she's just getting freer than she already was.

Speaker 7 Does that make sense? Yes, yeah.

Speaker 6 Um, Ryan comes from a really cute, normal family, and I thought that was really interesting for the amount of hate that I've given him/slash the entire general public has given him.

Speaker 6 He comes from a very seemingly normal, like middle class, maybe upper-middle-class family.

Speaker 7 So, before I get to my thoughts about that, I have a question.

Speaker 7 So, you heard like they were airing the comments that people were making on the street, right?

Speaker 7 Like, in New York, they were, you could hear the audio of people being like, Oh, she didn't have a choice, and like, whatever, like, oh, Gypsy, we love you, and all this stuff, like as she's walking.

Speaker 7 I just want to know, do you think that the reception, because everyone kept making comments referring to her as a child, right?

Speaker 7 So, I was like, Do you think that the reception would have been the same if she were older when her mom, when the murder was committed? No,

Speaker 7 I didn't think so either.

Speaker 6 No, I don't. I truly, I think that people give her the grace that she gets because

Speaker 6 she was so young and she was believed to be even younger than what she was. And so, when you're mentally stunted in that way and emotionally and mature, your maturity is stunted in that way.

Speaker 6 I think that we can give grace for that.

Speaker 6 I don't think if she was 25 at that point, you are free to get up and walk out of your wheelchair and walk out of your house and say, This woman is batshit crazy, and you can handle it very differently.

Speaker 6 I think that she, this was an overnight sensation, partially because she was still a child.

Speaker 7 That's that was my thought too. And I just kept thinking about that.
And I'm like, where

Speaker 7 I just wondered, like, if this situation went on for a couple more years longer, what would this have actually looked like now?

Speaker 7 Would people have been so supportive of her getting out of prison early and being on parole and, you know, getting a platform and all those things?

Speaker 7 Like, obviously, she's had like, you know, nasty comments and stuff like that. And people have lashed out about it.

Speaker 7 But I just feel like the outrage would have been way more significant if she had been even a couple of years older.

Speaker 6 Well, I don't know that it would have gotten the coverage at all. I think a lot of us wouldn't even know.
Because, you know what I mean?

Speaker 6 Like, it's not like, um, if she was just an adult, it would be like a kind of like a crazy story, but not necessarily the full-blown coverage that it would have gotten to the

Speaker 6 organized the way it was, right? Like, it wouldn't be because I would compare the coverage of the Gypsy Rose

Speaker 6 phenomenon to Casey Anthony, to OJ Simpson, to like, that's how maybe the Menendez brothers, like these big, high, high-profile cases.

Speaker 6 Had she been an adult, I don't know that it would have been as high-profile at all.

Speaker 7 Well, so you brought up the Menendez brothers, and I think it's so funny because they're

Speaker 6 unless they're coming on this fucking podcast.

Speaker 6 I,

Speaker 6 for anyone fucking listening, I've tried, I want to interview them. I've been fascinated by that case for so long.

Speaker 6 Yeah, go ahead, continue.

Speaker 7 I think that it's funny how that one

Speaker 7 really has lost the luster factor. Like, no one really talks about it anymore.
It got rebrought back up with Gypsy getting out of prison.

Speaker 7 And the way it was brought back up was people saying, well, if we're going to forgive her, then why are we not forgiving them?

Speaker 6 Because we can't confirm. The difference is that we cannot confirm the abuse and the neglect and all of the things that the Menendez brothers claim to be true.

Speaker 6 We also cannot confirm whether or not there was molestation involved.

Speaker 6 We cannot confirm that any of those allegations were fact, where I think that most people, if not all people, have corroborated Gypsy's story and the level of munch housing by proxy that was at hand.

Speaker 6 The other thing, too, I want to not ignore is that the Menendez brothers were flashing all of their Rolexes and cars, and there was a lot of money involved.

Speaker 6 And so, you have to wonder if any of that would be true for people like the Menendez brothers, who conspired against their parents, versus Gypsy Rose, who was literally by like outside of her boyfriend at the time.

Speaker 6 She lived with this woman by herself, and there was not a lot of money and funds involved.

Speaker 6 So, it's not like she could have had ulterior motives for that, where like the Menendez brothers, like, did you make this up to potentially obtain your parents' fortune?

Speaker 6 Like, is that what this was about? And so, I still, I mean, I'm fascinated by the case, the Menendez brothers, but I also have, I still have a lot of questions that I would love to ask them. And just,

Speaker 6 because I do think that some people go to prison for these long amounts of time.

Speaker 6 And I do think that some of them will finally

Speaker 6 tell the truth, like as close to the truth as they can get. And I do think that Gypsy does do that.
Like, she takes accountability. And I think that there's also forgiveness in that.

Speaker 6 I feel like for the Menendez brothers, I don't know that we

Speaker 6 feel like we're super close to the truth. I think there's still a lot of question and unanswered, unsure, unknown aspects, if that makes sense.

Speaker 7 Oh, I would agree. I would agree.
And I also, I just was like, it's very interesting how they can both be looked, you know what I mean? How people wanted to compare.

Speaker 6 You can't. You can't be so different.
You cannot compare.

Speaker 6 I would compare this Gypsy Rose situation to more,

Speaker 6 it's not identical, it's not really similar, but I would compare it more to

Speaker 6 the Netflix special that I just watched, Till Murder Do Us Part. I would compare it more to that because someone was manipulated into killing a parent.
And with that, they were really young.

Speaker 6 I think those ones were college students.

Speaker 6 And that one was a little bit different too because because

Speaker 6 the boyfriend full-on takes accountability. And he, I think, there's just, I'm more inclined to forgive someone if they're willing to tell the truth and you know it's the truth.
Like you know

Speaker 6 that they are taking accountability. You know what I mean? Like it's a feeling you get.
I don't know.

Speaker 6 And I don't know that the Menendez brothers are there yet, but also nobody's talked to them in a long time. Right.

Speaker 7 Right. So I thought that was interesting.
I was dying laughing

Speaker 7 when she got the

Speaker 7 Louis Vuitton and Louis Vuitton confused.

Speaker 6 Wait, wait, back up. That's too far ahead.
That's too far ahead. What was the call that Ryan got while he was at his parents' house about the school?

Speaker 6 It was like one of the parents had complained and they didn't think he was going to go back to work. So did he, in fact, get fired? Did he get let go? Did he resign? Like, what was the situation?

Speaker 7 From what I was told by, like, listeners of the podcast and stuff, he was a special education teacher and he lost his job because of Gypsy.

Speaker 7 I also thought that it was funny because they made the comment about, oh, so-and-so, which I'm going to assume was probably a principal, assistant principal, someone like in charge of the school, touching base with the teacher to see if they're coming back, or somebody at administration made the comment of, oh, so-and-so appreciated your D was fire comment.

Speaker 7 I was like, oh, so like somebody brought that up,

Speaker 7 or they saw that and made sure to like note that to Ryan.

Speaker 6 Well, here's the thing, right? Like, in the military, you have the person that is in the military, and then the spouse is a spouse. They are a civilian, and what they do

Speaker 6 can't really have an effect. Like, you can't get unless it's like weed, and then it's in the house, and then the military finds out, like, different story.
But I'm talking about, like,

Speaker 6 they're not one in the same. So, I just don't know that Ryan should have been essentially punished for who he's married to.

Speaker 7 Well, that goes back to a conversation you and Lindsay had on coffee Combos a long time ago about the teacher that got fired for having OnlyFans.

Speaker 6 I don't think she should have been fired.

Speaker 7 I just feel like what you do at your job

Speaker 7 is your job.

Speaker 7 If you're not harming anyone,

Speaker 6 like, well, I also want to note too that if he is a special ed teacher, it's not like he's going in to teach regular high school English and these kids are just, he's a huge distraction.

Speaker 6 Right. Right.
So I also think that that is important to know.

Speaker 7 It's kind of like, so something I noted was kind of like, in your situation, like, you know that there's teachers at your children's schools who have had things to say

Speaker 6 about

Speaker 7 you,

Speaker 7 any of your kids' dads, whatever.

Speaker 7 The kids at school are probably don't even know what the hell is going on, right? Like most likely have no idea. It's the parents.

Speaker 6 So to to me, unless

Speaker 7 a student complained, I think that, like, if a student was having a serious issue or whatever, but the to allow the parents who Ryan was really not involved with, like, we're looking at like a weird triangle here of like, he teaches your child.

Speaker 7 What, what do you think he's teaching them? You think he's teaching them that, like, murder's a good idea?

Speaker 3 This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game?

Speaker 3 Well, with a name-your-price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it at Progressive.com.

Speaker 3 Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law, not available in all states.

Speaker 10 Ever wonder where that cool product you just discovered on Amazon actually came from? Chances are, it's from an independent seller.

Speaker 10 They actually make up more than 60% of everything sold in Amazon's store. We are talking about real entrepreneurs building their dreams, one sale at a time.

Speaker 10 These aren't massive corporations, they're small businesses started by people just like you, turning their innovative ideas into successful brands.

Speaker 10 Whether they're crafting sustainable products from their garage or scaling their family business to reach customers worldwide, these sellers are redefining what's possible for small business.

Speaker 10 So, next time you're shopping, think small. Check out amazon.com/slash support small.

Speaker 2 On the job, every minute counts.

Speaker 2 That's why Lowe's now has ProBlock Quick Dry Primer, expertly manufactured by Sherwin-Williams, engineered for pros to drive fast and go on smooth for virtually flawless results that keep your job moving.

Speaker 2 It's available in oil and water-based, and getting it is easy. Order online by 2 p.m.
and get free same-day delivery right to your job site. Lowe's, we help, you save.
Orders placed after 2 p.m.

Speaker 2 will be delivered next day. Valid in select zip codes, subject to driver availability.
More terms apply.

Speaker 6 I guess for the school, it could be a liability, maybe, because,

Speaker 6 and I only say that because you don't, I tell my kids all the time, like

Speaker 6 people will say whatever the fuck they want, and there will be people that believe it, right? So, like, someone could accuse you of touching them and you never touch them, right?

Speaker 6 Like, you have to be very careful.

Speaker 6 In a situation like this, if the parents don't like something, I do feel like it's possible that they could get creative and say, like, start things that aren't true, and then it becomes a liability for the school.

Speaker 7 But I feel like that's almost the same risk as anywhere else.

Speaker 6 Oh, yes, 100%.

Speaker 7 Because students start killing off their parents,

Speaker 7 one cannot play into the other. So I just didn't, I don't know.
I just didn't really understand it. And I, I mean, I agree with you.

Speaker 6 I do agree with you. I was just trying to like play down the advocate a little bit and see like if

Speaker 7 it's just odd. I mean, there's liability.
and i mean there's liability for any employer these days because of social media

Speaker 7 that's which is literally why

Speaker 7 it's a really scary place to be there's no job security anywhere no so it's and not even just social media but just like people in general because

Speaker 7 people have too much time on their hands um

Speaker 7 i also was saying that

Speaker 7 so i also thought that it was interesting that gypsy seemed so comfortable with his family the feeling i got of her being there versus versus the feeling I got of Ryan being with her family, completely different.

Speaker 7 Completely different.

Speaker 6 Well,

Speaker 6 I don't want to be mean,

Speaker 6 but like,

Speaker 6 look at Ryan, right? Like, his confidence probably isn't that high.

Speaker 7 So do we think he pretends to be confident and that's why it comes across so bad?

Speaker 6 Yeah. I think it's more of like he's doing the best he can, but he probably has low self-esteem.
Okay. That's my guess.
Because I also,

Speaker 6 my self-esteem, I think at this point is pretty average. And I also would be uncomfortable to go be around Elisha's family, right? Like, it's just not where I'm comfortable.

Speaker 6 I just, and I'm sure it would come across. You know what I mean?

Speaker 7 For me, I guess like the way that I looked at it was like, if you're looking at what

Speaker 7 if you're looking at it through my lens, I'm like, okay, you've got this guy, Ryan, who's a teacher, probably does not have a criminal background.

Speaker 7 And And you have a girl that conspired to murder her mom. So like, I would look at her worse than I would look at him.

Speaker 6 Wait, I need to know when you put it like that. Like, obviously, that's who like Gypsy did that.
But, like, what does Ryan's mom think about that? Like, what?

Speaker 7 Well, that's why I was like, she is so like taking a picture and like hugging and making food. And

Speaker 7 then Ryan's over here and like the interaction was completely different with him and her family. So I was just very intrigued at how open his family seemed compared to how closed off it felt like

Speaker 7 her family was to him.

Speaker 6 I would be, if I was a mom, if I was Ryan's mom, right? Like

Speaker 6 I would be highly concerned for my son. No matter how far removed you are from the murder, like whether you did it when you were 16 or you did it when you were 25,

Speaker 6 you did that. So like I would be concerned, right? Like, I would be, I would be scared for my son.

Speaker 7 I think that's a natural. I mean, for to me, it's natural.
That would be like a natural, I would be like, oh,

Speaker 7 I don't, I don't know how I would be as a parent, but like, I would hope that I would have be one of those parents that's like, you are absolutely not marrying them, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 6 I don't fucking know.

Speaker 7 I could be like that. Be like, you are out of your fucking mind.
I'm committing you next.

Speaker 6 That's really interesting. Like, I'm sitting here thinking, like, if any of your kids kids came home and was like, I've been judged for, you know, my situation, right?

Speaker 6 Like, I've been judged, I would say, unfairly because you grow as a person, right? Can you grow out of murder? I don't know.

Speaker 6 Like, if you had the manipulated, the manipulating tendencies and the ability to conspire

Speaker 6 to murder, can you grow out of that? Is it like, you know, in your adolescence, you were just like

Speaker 6 nonchalantly plotting your mom's murder to going to being completely just

Speaker 7 reborn again like how does that work i truly don't know i don't know and like i know desperation can make people do a lot of things like desperate people do a lot of

Speaker 7 clearly um and like if you feel like you have no other way out and stuff like that but i don't know that would genuinely make me afraid so i was very surprised at the reception that it felt like it felt like the feeling watching it gave me was completely different than the feeling I had with him, with her family.

Speaker 6 Just questioning everything.

Speaker 7 Yeah, it was, it that was really.

Speaker 6 Um, well, it's interesting that you say all that because

Speaker 6 I literally wrote, despite everything, Gypsy looks good and she and she looks like she's doing the best she can. Like, I literally wrote that because I

Speaker 6 let's backtrack though, because they go to look at a wedding venue. Ryan is pushing for this, like, real life, real in-time wedding, not in a jumpsuit.

Speaker 6 The location is a vibe, and I love that for them. The location looks like somewhere I would get married

Speaker 6 with like all the plans, the outdoor, just like character. I actually really liked it.
Um,

Speaker 6 how did you feel about that?

Speaker 6 I did, I think that he took it really well, and I don't know if it was like a scene that was like set up so he kind of knew what to expect, which then she gives pushback and like she doesn't want to get married because she feels like the timing is right.

Speaker 7 So, I was gonna ask you about that. Um,

Speaker 7 her apprehension on doing that was a setup for Ken. Well, yes, but I also wanted to ask: do you think, do you feel like if she was stalling?

Speaker 6 Yes, because it was a setup because she was having second thoughts.

Speaker 7 Well, that, and did you hear what she said while at the wedding venue about

Speaker 7 us getting married in front of these people makes it feel like we're really doing this until death do us part? And then she was like, but like, not like the first time didn't mean that.

Speaker 7 And he's like, no, you're right. It didn't like, you know what I mean?

Speaker 7 So I was like, it almost felt like she thought the first one was like not real or for fun and games or didn't hold the same meeting as this ceremony would.

Speaker 7 And I'm like, maybe because her family would be there, maybe like, you know what I mean? And I was like, I got to ask Kale this because

Speaker 7 I feel like

Speaker 7 I could see you in a situation like this.

Speaker 6 That would be where.

Speaker 7 Yeah, you would be like, okay, everything is fine until it gets down to the nitty-gritty of like actually getting married.

Speaker 7 And like you might go along with it, but up until that shit is legal, you're like, oh, I'm like, oh, fuck.

Speaker 7 Oh, like, this got real, you know? So I was like, oh, I got to get Kale's thoughts on that.

Speaker 6 Then Gypsy wants to do therapy.

Speaker 7 And it was mandated to do therapy.

Speaker 6 And that's great and good, right? Like, we can hope that people who are mandated to do therapy get there and they realize it's better than what they thought or they commit in a real way.

Speaker 6 But we also know that just like anything else, until you acknowledge that there's a problem and until you actually commit to therapy in a real way, it does nothing for you.

Speaker 6 So, I hope that in Gypsy's case, I hope that she really does use it to like work through her stuff.

Speaker 6 My question today, right now,

Speaker 6 to Gypsy would be

Speaker 6 knowing everything that she knows now, right? Like, she's she

Speaker 6 helped murder her mom, goes to jail, becomes an overnight celebrity, and now she has her own TV show. Would she do this all again?

Speaker 6 Would she kill her mom again, knowing what the outcome is today?

Speaker 7 That's a really good question.

Speaker 6 Because I say it all the time: I would never be where I am today if I didn't get pregnant and go on 16 and pregnant. So, would I do it all over again? Yeah, probably.
I probably would.

Speaker 6 Not for the fame, but for

Speaker 6 everything else. Like, I don't regret anything, right? So like

Speaker 6 it worked out, but for her, someone was killed.

Speaker 7 Right. Right.

Speaker 7 I mean, this, I'm not comparing the situations, but you had a baby. That's a permanent decision.
She, somebody got killed. That's a permanent decision.

Speaker 6 That's more so what I mean. Like I made permanent decisions and ended up where I ended up.
She made permanent decisions in another way that helped her end up where she is today.

Speaker 6 She would, who knows what kind of hell she would be in if she didn't do it, but would she do it again?

Speaker 7 That's a really good question.

Speaker 7 Um, when she took the picture, well, when she was in the workout outfit and you saw the scars, and I actually felt sick to my stomach. I was because I

Speaker 7 have forgotten, I think, a little bit about all the shit that was done to her.

Speaker 7 And when I saw them, and just thinking about, I'm not even a mom, and I'm just sitting here thinking about like how could one human force another human to undergo unnecessary medical shit that causes them physical pain, alters their body, does whatever the hell we don't even know.

Speaker 7 I'm sure we don't even know the half of it, truly.

Speaker 7 And like, think that it's okay. And I get that, like, Munchausen's by proxy, I get that it's a mental illness.

Speaker 7 I fully understand that, but like, I, as someone who does not live in the brain that her mom had, I cannot understand how it gets that fucking bad that you think that that's a good idea.

Speaker 6 I would love to talk to someone who has been

Speaker 6 diagnosed with Munthausen by proxy. Like someone who

Speaker 6 can you

Speaker 6 get rid of it? I don't know.

Speaker 7 I'm like, can you get rid of it?

Speaker 6 Doesn't it go? Is that a mental illness that ever can be treated or go away? Like, is that? I also wrote down:

Speaker 6 do we think that this would be an overnight celebrity obsession, like an overnight celebrity/slash obsession/slash

Speaker 6 fascination? Would this specific case have gotten the coverage that it got

Speaker 6 if

Speaker 6 Dee Dee wasn't murdered and Gypsy just came forward. Because I think that we would,

Speaker 7 I don't think so.

Speaker 6 Like,

Speaker 6 I think it would still have gained something. Like, people would be like, What the fuck? But do I think that it would get to the point of having her own reality show? No,

Speaker 7 I almost feel like it would be similar to

Speaker 7 what happened with the influencer mom that gave her kid back.

Speaker 6 Well, she's about to have a whole documentary.

Speaker 7 yeah. Like, I think that

Speaker 7 could I see it being a true crime documentary about like this occurring to somebody, yeah.

Speaker 6 Okay, so we think there would be some coverage, maybe like other true crime cases or like some dateline episodes

Speaker 7 associated, okay.

Speaker 6 So, potentially ID channel episode, potentially dateline,

Speaker 6 a couple headlines, and then we're moving on.

Speaker 7 Yeah, I think

Speaker 7 go ahead when Ryan, when she was kind of expressing her apprehension about the marriage situation to Ryan when they were back home in the apartment, and he kept saying, like, I'm along for this ride with you.

Speaker 7 And she's trying to, like, explain how she's feeling. I literally wrote down, must be an extremely lonely feeling, no one being able to relate.

Speaker 7 And I kind of was like, I got to ask Kale about that because, you know, you do have supportive people, right?

Speaker 7 But like, I'm sure there's shit that you've gone through that you know for a fact that there is absolutely nobody else that you talk to on a consistent basis that could actually relate.

Speaker 7 And, like, how does that affect you?

Speaker 6 Um,

Speaker 6 it's kind of

Speaker 6 similar to like where I'm at now. I feel like I'm in such a weird, like, I'm happy overall, like, genuinely, genuinely happy, but it does feel weird that, like, I, we tried the Christmas thing.

Speaker 6 I hate Christmas. People still don't understand me.
And, like,

Speaker 6 when you think of a raging alcoholic, you don't think of

Speaker 6 at least I don't think of like all that I went through with my mom, right? Like, I just don't. So, like, I don't have anyone to talk to about that and in the same way.

Speaker 6 Cause you think of like an alcoholic as like, oh, like, they're a drunk, but not to the level of neglect and abuse that I went through, right?

Speaker 6 It's lonely. And then the effects of in the aftermath are like where we are today.
So I, it's, it is lonely. It's a really hard.

Speaker 6 I don't, and she probably hasn't met anyone else aside from in prison where someone has killed someone in their family or like their mom. Also,

Speaker 6 do people go to jail regularly from killing for killing their parents? Like, I wonder if she's ever even talked to anyone at all.

Speaker 7 That's a good question. I also just like, again, like at the same time, you're a victim yourself.

Speaker 7 So it's like trying to find someone that might be able to relate in that sense, not even to the murdering your mom part, but like to the I was a victim of my mother.

Speaker 7 That's got to be really hard.

Speaker 7 I don't know. I just,

Speaker 7 it made me

Speaker 7 gave me perspective as to when

Speaker 7 I've always been super careful to say, like, oh, like, I know exactly what you're going through. I don't say that to anybody.
Like, I really try not to ever say that to anyone. Yeah.
Because I don't.

Speaker 7 I don't, because everybody's situation always has some type of unique

Speaker 7 twist. I think.
So even if you went through something similar, I don't think there's anybody that can ever 100% relate to whatever your exact circumstances.

Speaker 6 Right.

Speaker 7 So, I try not to say that. So, like, him being like, I'm here with you.
I'm here with you. It's like, he thinks he's being supportive, I'm sure.

Speaker 7 Right? Like, just like anybody who says, I'm here for you and whatever. And it's like, okay, that's fantastic.
And I appreciate you, but it is not the same.

Speaker 6 And also,

Speaker 6 he has a mom and stepdad that live in the house. He can't relate in any way, shape, or form.
And I almost think that that sometimes that's harder than,

Speaker 6 you know what I mean? Like, he, she,

Speaker 6 someone that comes from just like a totally different world that could never understand, they might empathize or sympathize, but like, they can't ever. So, like, is that helpful for her?

Speaker 7 I, I, I, she looked like she was getting frustrated as he was saying what he was saying to her. She looked like

Speaker 7 what I interpreted from her body language was that she's like, he's not hearing me. Like, he's not actually listening to what I'm saying.
He's just saying, like, basically, oh, I get it.

Speaker 7 I really, I, whatever, I'm here.

Speaker 7 And it's like, that's fantastic. But sometimes people just need you to sit there and listen to them and not fucking say anything.

Speaker 6 Right.

Speaker 7 And that sometimes feels better. Somebody could ruin the good feeling you've got going on, like venting by opening their mouth, even if they say something that's not mean.

Speaker 7 watching that interaction just again reinforced the like you don't always need to have something to say. Yeah.
Sometimes just like being the listening ear and literally shutting the fuck up.

Speaker 7 Best thing that you could do for somebody.

Speaker 7 The previews for next week look.

Speaker 6 Wait, wait, there's more. What? What? So she has second thoughts about the wedding venue and she's like, I don't think we should do this.
We should slow down. Like, I'm not ready.

Speaker 6 And he's like, I want to start a family with you. And she's like,

Speaker 6 um,

Speaker 6 that she wants a normal life and she wants to work a nine to five. Yeah.
A nine to five is crazy, Gypsy Rose. Like, you don't even have any skills yet.

Speaker 6 Like, where, where are we going with this nine to five? What are we doing here? Um, normal life, starting a family.

Speaker 6 If they want a family, um, if they want a normal life in a family, will there be a season two? Because for someone who wants to live a normal life, being on TV is not it.

Speaker 6 I will say that very loud and clear. Um, and I think I wrote down that this is her setting up leaving him.

Speaker 6 I've been there, I've literally put my ducks in a row where I'm saying, I don't want to have more kids, I don't want to do this.

Speaker 6 Or you hear we have had friends that are like they went from wanting kids to not wanting them all of a sudden, but it's not because they don't want them, it's because I don't want them with you.

Speaker 6 And I'm setting my ducks in a row so that I can have my exit plan and then go start a life somewhere else. It happens all the time.

Speaker 7 Yes, this is true.

Speaker 6 And then I wrote down Ken was the one that got away for Gypsy.

Speaker 6 So whether Ken's genuine, whether Ken's feelings are genuine or not, or he has ill intentions or whatever, which I don't get a good feeling about, I almost think that Ken is worse than Ryan.

Speaker 6 I think that Ryan

Speaker 6 probably does love Gypsy, but he probably also loves the fame and attention. But Ken

Speaker 7 both can be true for Ryan, but Ken gets me bad vibes.

Speaker 6 Ken, I think, is worse than Ryan, right? Like, I think that he's even, like, because

Speaker 6 I think that Ryan's confidence is low. I think that it is probably sort of fun for him to have this, like, fame and attention.
He's probably maybe always kind of been like an oddball

Speaker 6 is the vibe that I get.

Speaker 6 But Ken, I.

Speaker 6 But Gypsy, you could tell that Gypsy really loved him.

Speaker 6 Gypsy is distraught.

Speaker 7 So, like, when it skipped right into the previews and the stepmom

Speaker 7 was saying that he reached out again

Speaker 7 and that, oh, he's not seeing anybody and whatever. Again, I'm like,

Speaker 7 stepmom, like, what are we doing? Like, to me, again, it was very obvious that they don't fuck with Ryan, right?

Speaker 7 Like, it was even said in this episode that Ryan said they did not want us to get married.

Speaker 6 Great. We don't know what Jitsi is telling her stepmom off camera.
She could be saying, like, how is Ken? Like,

Speaker 7 yeah, you're that is correct. So I just was like, hmm, this is really

Speaker 7 interesting. Like, if you're at the point of you're keeping tabs on somebody,

Speaker 7 regardless of in what way it's being reported to you, or you're looking or telling somebody to report back to you, or whatever,

Speaker 7 you should not be married to somebody else.

Speaker 7 You just shouldn't.

Speaker 6 In my opinion, I would agree with that. I would agree with that.

Speaker 7 So I just was like, oh. And then when she's like, I have a commitment to my husband, it felt very much like if she did not,

Speaker 7 she would clearly go back,

Speaker 7 is definitely how that felt.

Speaker 7 But when she said that she had a nightmare about her mom, I never even considered the fact that she might have nightmares about what happened to her, never even thought about it.

Speaker 6 Yeah, because I mean, she heard her mom's screams, so

Speaker 7 I was like, I wouldn't want to live

Speaker 7 probably honestly a day in her brain.

Speaker 6 Well, I wonder what that, like, I don't want to know, but I wonder. Does that make sense? Like,

Speaker 6 because

Speaker 6 I've done nothing that involves murder. I've made bad decisions, and the guilt has eaten me alive,

Speaker 6 but they weren't necessarily like

Speaker 6 this level of permanent decisions, right? Like, right.

Speaker 6 What would that sort of guilt feel like to live to carry that with you for the rest of your life? Like, I

Speaker 6 cut off my own mom by choice, and it eats me alive every single day. It's like one of those things where, and, and it comes in waves, right?

Speaker 6 Like, some days more than others, some weeks more than others, but like, that alone, I think about on a regular bas, like a fairly regular basis.

Speaker 6 What would that be like to kill some? Like, I don't want to know, but like, I need to know. Does that make sense?

Speaker 7 To me,

Speaker 7 and it's not fair. I'm not, it's not fair for me to judge, but just looking at the situation, she doesn't appear as if she feels guilty.
She appears as if she's she's made amends with it,

Speaker 7 in my opinion.

Speaker 6 But okay, so I've made amends and I'm at peace with my decision to cut my mom off. That doesn't mean it doesn't still hurt on some days and weeks.
That's more so what I mean.

Speaker 6 So, I guess the same would, I would imagine, would be true for her. It's like she's come to terms with the decision of committing the murder, but how does that

Speaker 6 make sense?

Speaker 7 You know how you will have like,

Speaker 7 like, I would say when you're experiencing that, it's for people who actually know you. It's pretty easy to tell when you are

Speaker 7 guilty conscience about something,

Speaker 7 anxious, stressed. Like, it's easy because you like learn a person.
I feel like that's anybody, right?

Speaker 7 With how cool, calm, and collected, like, when you're going through shit, you are not cool, calm, and collected,

Speaker 7 you know?

Speaker 7 Like, I don't, I'm not saying you're like frantic and that, like, everybody in the world knows something's wrong, but like, the people around me go with myself i fucking know when something is up right yeah yeah i don't know her in real life so maybe that's that's a circumstance and again we're only seeing these little bits on tv so i don't know what it's like on the other 99

Speaker 7 of her days and stuff but like that would be she's so

Speaker 6 I need to get her on this podcast to ask her these questions because I don't think these are the questions that she's being asked. Like,

Speaker 6 okay, you've come to terms with your decision. Like you've accepted and acknowledged and apologized for this.
What is it like to live with those thoughts sometimes?

Speaker 6 Like when they come back to haunt you and you have nightmares, what is it like for you on a daily basis inside Gypsy's head? Like, does it come, like, do you think about it daily?

Speaker 6 Do you think about it weekly? Do you not think about it at all? Do you block it out, like repressed memories? Like, what does that look like for you?

Speaker 6 Also, like, When she says she wants to work, live a normal life and not be known as the girl who killed her mom,

Speaker 6 How does she think that that is achievable? I want to know like the inner workings of these thoughts and these like ideas that she has.

Speaker 6 Do you think she sees herself working nine to five at a bank

Speaker 7 when she says that like she just wants to be normal and she doesn't want to be known as the girl who killed her mom?

Speaker 7 Do we think that that's just like an internal desire being vocalized and she knows that that's never going to happen?

Speaker 7 Or do we think that she thinks somewhere in her head like that could potentially happen?

Speaker 6 No, I think that

Speaker 6 I think it's the first thing that you said.

Speaker 7 Like internal desire being vocalized.

Speaker 6 Because

Speaker 6 do we think that

Speaker 6 without a man, I'm not talking about Ken or Ryan, that Gypsy Rose would live a sustainable lifestyle by herself working a nine-to-five? Because I don't.

Speaker 7 I truly, I don't know. I really don't know because she's adjusted to this craziness seemingly well.

Speaker 7 So like, who's to say she?

Speaker 6 I'm not saying she wouldn't adjust to it. I don't think that people would hire her,

Speaker 6 and I don't think that she would be able to make the income that she would need to make in order to sustain a lifestyle, a normal lifestyle on her own, especially after all the media attention that she's gained.

Speaker 6 And I'm sure she's getting paid for some level of appearances, she's getting paid for the show. Like,

Speaker 6 that is not like

Speaker 6 that would be like me going and becoming a server,

Speaker 6 right? That can never happen. That can't happen.

Speaker 7 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Like it could, but it couldn't.

Speaker 6 Like.

Speaker 7 You wouldn't be able to support

Speaker 7 based off that.

Speaker 6 I wouldn't be able to support.

Speaker 7 Your options are much more limited.

Speaker 6 Yeah, like you can't just go get a normal nine-to-five. Like, that's not how, like, she'd have to work in a call center where nobody's going to see her.

Speaker 7 Well, it's kind of, I'm thinking like Casey Anthony went and she ended up working for her own.

Speaker 6 I think it was her own attorney yeah like she would gypsy rose would have to have a situation like that or a call center or a warehouse like she'd have to work somewhere that would be not in the public general public where she's going to get recognized regularly where she can have a limited skill set until she can further that

Speaker 6 i mean And I'm pretty sure that Casey Anthony went and lived with her attorney for a long time.

Speaker 7 Yes, I believe so.

Speaker 6 So I don't know that,

Speaker 6 I don't know.

Speaker 6 And I'm not talking shit. I'm just like wondering how it would be

Speaker 6 feasible for her to live.

Speaker 7 That would be a hard one.

Speaker 7 That would be, that would definitely be a hard one. I kind of was actually surprised when she was walking around New York.
I couldn't tell if she had security

Speaker 7 until this one part where it looked like there was security potentially like that got shown in one clip.

Speaker 7 And I was like, I don't know if that's her security or if she doesn't have security, but like when she made the comment about like,

Speaker 7 you know, are there dangerous people that she should be like concerned about?

Speaker 7 I'm like, I would be fucking concerned because there's people who have very strong opinions, and I know that there's a huge difference between people on social media that are just like fucking Yahoos and keyboard warriors, right?

Speaker 7 But, like, I definitely think that, like, it's a little bit different than just like not liking a reality star type of person, right?

Speaker 7 Like, you committed a crime, and right, there are people who have big feelings about that.

Speaker 6 I

Speaker 6 I don't know. It's just it's

Speaker 6 it's interesting because like I have thoughts about

Speaker 6 people redeeming themselves that maybe go to prison for like gang crimes or like they kill someone because they were an addict or like

Speaker 6 I'm trying to think like Car accident. I think that those people have redeeming qualities sometimes and is more forgivable than like manipulating and like masterminding and being a ringleader.
To

Speaker 6 I just don't know how you turn that off, but like you said, the desperation conversation where you said that like desperation will cause people to do different things. Like,

Speaker 6 very interesting. I'll be really interested to see how this plays out.
And I'm not hating by any means. Like, I have no room to judge gypsy bros.
I'm just trying to

Speaker 7 dissect.

Speaker 6 Yeah. Yeah.
Dissect and and pick her brain.

Speaker 6 It's

Speaker 6 circling back, we'll be circling back with episode four of Gypsy Rose Life After Lockup.

Speaker 6 Kristen and I watch the show on Lifetime through Philo, and I think the episodes drop on Mondays, so you guys can go watch those episodes.

Speaker 6 It's called Gypsy Rose, Life After Lockup, and we'll talk to you all next week. Thanks for joining me, Kristen, on Barely Fucking Famous.

Speaker 7 No problem. Bye.

Speaker 6 See ya.