Life After Lock Up - Is This My Life?

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Things are going to

get weird. It's your fave villain, Kale Lowry, and you're listening to Barely Famous.
All right, fuckers, we're back with episode three of Gypsy Rose, Life After Lockup. And this show has been quite the ride.
It honestly, it really has. And it's funny because I don't know about you, but I got halfway through the episode and I was like, nothing like is like really great.
And then I started thinking about stuff like nothing dramatic happened in this episode. But I have like deep questions to ask.
Oh, same. I wrote lots of questions.
So that's really interesting. I do also I want to I want to acknowledge the Yahoo's.
I loved that Ryan referred to the trolls as yahoos and I just I don't know I feel like that should be the new term can we call them that we'll adopt it the yahoos not yet we're copying Ryan he's a trendsetter they're yahoos they're nothing other than yahoos that's not the trendsetter i i do i do love it um i instantly started dying laughing when she did the clap back of the d is fire because i remember that taking over social media and everyone's reactions like cracking up laughing and then just like seeing her and like knowing how she acts and then like ryan now and then like I was dying laughing. I was dying.
The D is fire. When I saw that in real time over TikTok and I was just like, she was going hard for him.
And all of the creators that were like, you know, there's so many creators, especially on TikTok, that have such big personalities.

And when they were, like, reacting to it, it made it even funnier. So the fact that Lifetime included those takes into the show was everything.
I absolutely loved it. I loved it.
I thought that was phenomenal. I also was cracking up laughing because I have never related harder to something that they've done, except until they hit the we're not packing our whole life scenario

when Gypsy was like yelling to Ryan like don't pack your whole life because I feel like typically women get a bad rap for being the ones to overpack. So it was just funny seeing the role reversal.
And then also like that's me. I overpack for fucking everything.
Well, I loved that part. It almost felt like Gypsy was the partner and Ryan was the one that was the famous person.
So, but Gypsy, going back to the D is fire, I was cracking up because, so Gypsy obviously felt the urge, the strong urge to defend her man, right? Like, and that's pretty normal. I think when you love someone, you want to defend them and you want to like scream from the mountaintops like what's true and what's not true and like i've seen that even in friends so kudos to gypsy for really defending him but i really also want to acknowledge how seamless gypsy is making the transition seem and i know like on her insides that like in her mind and her body and her soul it's probably not as seamless as it's coming across but we really haven't seen a whole lot of like dysfunction or like i would assume that someone that went to jail for murder in her situation and then comes out an overnight celebrity through jail, through documentaries, through interviews and podcasts, and now her own show, I, she really hasn't, it's been pretty seamless.
Like there's been, I haven't seen anything that's like gypsy fucking up, gypsy slipping up, gypsy saying the wrong thing, gypsy, like I really haven't seen any of that. No.
I mean I mean I would agree with you and I think that she's doing a good job of outwardly staying cool calm and collected so that it gives that appearance who knows what's like really going on inside but even when she was talking about being like I'm so nervous over her PO meeting like I wouldn't have been able to tell unless she said it or even like the view when went on The View, she was on Good Morning America. So I thought that was really interesting because, I don't know, maybe she just got like such a big taste of it in prison while she was doing documentaries and things like that.
Maybe that was it. I also, we don't really know, I guess, if she's had, if she had any sort of coaching prior to this, if she knew that she was going to come out and film a reality show.
So that, I guess that might be possible, but I think she's doing a really good job. She hasn't had any like PR crises, I don't feel.
No, I don't, not that I think nothing from directly her, obviously like people like taking things she says and spinning them, like whatever that happens all the time, but nothing directly coming from her. I would say no.
When she kept, when she was talking about how she's so nervous about going back like she's obviously repeated that so many times but I truly wonder how many people that are out on parole struggle with that like same thought that like they could go back at any time well and that was something that I also noted like she doesn't want to fuck up at all so a common theme and things that I keep hearing or comment,

like people are commenting is,

and even on the show,

like some of the TikTokers were saying like,

Gypsy's going to find herself in trouble.

She's going to get herself in trouble.

Where?

Why are people saying that?

Because I don't,

outside of like the potential of taking a picture

and there might be alcohol in the picture

that she maybe didn't like think to like double over

to like look at.

I don't see herself getting into trouble in a way that's going to send her back to prison. I just don't.
Yeah. I would love to know what the terms of her parole are because I feel like I don't know.
And I don't think that anyone knows what the terms are. So for people to make assumptions like she's going to fuck up and go back to prison, blah, blah, blah.
I was thinking the same thing. I wish that they would have allowed lifetime in the parole meeting like i wish that they would have let it be filmed i obviously understand why it wasn't but i was surprised that ryan was not able to go in i thought that was weird to me because i guess for me i'm like shouldn't he also know the do's and don'ts as her partner to support her not doing the wrong thing or like maybe him fucking up and doing something that could get her in trouble like I just would have thought like I I could I guess I could understand if it was a friend but it's her husband yes and no I guess I see that point now that you've like explained but also it's her responsibility to relay the message you know what I mean so she's an adult.
This isn't like a minor situation where like the parent is coming in. This is an adult that made the fuck up.
So she should know better than to put herself like whether it's Ryan or any other spouse, like, you know, better than to put your your spouse in a position where it could get them in trouble. Right.
Like, you know know better. I didn't even think the having a photo in front of alcohol was a thing.
Like, I didn't know. I didn't put two and two together that that could get you in trouble with your parole officer.
That was one of my questions because it wasn't a drug or alcohol related crime. But maybe because it's like something that could cause impairment maybe that would be like lead somebody to make not great decisions maybe that was why um and so I wrote that she could not be around alcohol and to double check backgrounds of pictures and stuff I do that on a regular basis and I've never been to prison um but I thought I've checked the backgrounds for well i checked the backgrounds for any little now before I didn't, but like, I've seen people get, um, called out for like, and I'm not saying it was cocaine, but like cocaine on the counter.
And you're like, you don't even know if that's cocaine. So like I have PTSD from stuff like that, or like accidentally almost doing, I don't know, just weird, whatever.
Um, but I did was interesting that two states had supervision over her. And I just feel like all of this was so unnecessary.
She served eight and a half years. And we know that she's never going to really be able to live a regular life, right? Like we know that.
But to put two states on her like that, I do feel is a little bit overkill. So I was confused by that because I literally wrote down then why was there such an issue that she was required to leave Missouri so quickly if both states were going to continue supervising her? Like, why was it this bums rush? Like, you have to get to Louisiana right now.
What was the problem then? If you also had responsibility over her, what was the fucking actual problem from episode two well and someone actually messaged me giving some insight so hold on let me see what if i can find the message because she works in probation or she used to work in probation and she wanted to give some insight on it so give me one second while i pull it up okay did you guys ever get gypsy rose's story figured out for barely famous i was dying laughing listening to the confusion gypsy was arrested and housed in missouri because that's where the crime took place gypsy and her mother left louisiana after the hurricane katrina and lived in springfield missouri when dd was murdered louisiana is involved because that's where ryan lives and if i'm notaking, her father lives there as well. When you get out of prison, you need a parole plan.

And Gypsy more than likely had to apply to Louisiana to become a parolee in that state.

Louisiana could have said no altogether about her moving there, but obviously didn't. Missouri

wanted Gypsy out of the state ASAP because it's a jurisdictional nightmare if she were to have

violated parole on Missouri soil because of the agreement already in place with Louisiana. I'm still confused, though, because she just got done saying that two states are supervising her.
So that's still... I'm assuming...
Yeah, how does that work? But maybe they had to do the dual state thing so that all bases were covered in the event that she did violate parole to make it less nightmare-ish. If she were to violate parole in Louisiana, they could take care of it.
If she were to violate parole in Missouri, they would be able to handle it. It wouldn't be a jurisdictional nightmare.
You know what I mean? like it sounds to me like the easier thing would for for both of them to have like say yeah i i guess it i just it threw me but i also was thrown off when she said that she was fingerprinted hand printed and got her dna taken didn't they already have that from like her being in prison so why the hell would you do it again probably because of the jurisdiction because it's in missouri but it wasn't in louisiana if the crime is placed in missouri so like send the paper but it's all i guess i mean i guess but like that was no because like when i went to jail here in delaware all stuff, my mugshot and my fingerprints are here in Delaware.

But if I go commit a crime in California, they have to take my mugshot and my fingerprints again, even though another state already has my fingerprints. You get what I'm saying? So I think it's more of a situation like that.
um when they were going through all of their like flight ish stuff I literally

broke down I said I miss flights all the time so I can relate to this. I said, is this how you feel? I literally said, cutting it close to the flight, Kale, is this how you feel? A hundred percent.
Because it's like, I was simultaneously Gypsy and Ryan. Where Ryan's like, no, we're not going to make it.
Like, we're not. It's not going to happen.
Like, she's like, we're going to make it like we're not it's not gonna happen like we're she's like we're gonna do our best like that's my internal battle like my right and left side of the brain it's like we're gonna do our best we're gonna just get on it we'll take our carry on and then Ryan's like we're not no we're not and that's literally the internal conflict that I have in my brain I miss flights once a month so I could totally resonate with this and I'm not even mad at Ryan for getting frustrated in that way, because there is nothing more frustrating than knowing you're going to miss your flight and then missing your flight, but then they didn't. So like, good for them.
I literally said, Ryan is so frustrated. I've been there, done that.
That is Corey and I, anytime we travel or not even if we're traveling together, but if he's trying to get me out the door to like meet you at the airport or something never fails i'm never prepared no matter how much i prepare ahead of time to like get out the house no absolutely the fuck not no then i just i couldn't fault anybody in that situation because that dynamic is me and cory gypsy was so cool like she's aside from a couple times crying like just up just up until episode three, she seems to be very, like, mellow, like, cool, calm, and collected about most things. Like, even when she was upset about him, like, about the dog situation, she kind of kept her cool pretty well.
I mean, she might have had an attitude, but, like, she didn't raise her voice. She's not getting all hostile.
You know what I mean? So I was wondering, and it doesn't matter to me either way. Like if people are on medication, I don't give a shit.
Like do what you got to do for yourself. But I kind of was wondering if maybe she's on some type of medication that is like a mood stabilizer just from the amount of trauma that she's been through.
Or on the other flip side, I was like, do we think she might just be like disassociating? Or do we think that's just her personality? Maybe a combo. Just like all of it.
Yeah. Because I mean, I'm impressed.
I mean, she also knows that there's a camera in her face. So I don't.
But then again, I've laughed out. Right.
And it was almost it almost exacerbated. Because it's overwhelming.
Like when you because. yeah, I mean, it's over, I don't know.
Good for her. But so I also wrote down that I loved that they broke the fourth wall when they were doing like their interviews and Good Morning America, The View, and then The Bio Files.
I really loved that they broke the fourth wall. And I cannot stress to you, to Lifetime and other production companies enough, like as someone who came from reality TV, but also consumes reality TV, I love when they do that while filming.
And I also love watching it as a consumer because it humanizes the people and it also just makes it more, like it feels more personal. And so I do love that they did that.
And I also wrote down that I thought she was really well spoken in a lot of these interviews, even when they introduced her on The View and that one woman with the, I just stuttered, the one woman with red hair that introduced her and like kind of tripped her up on what she was trying to say and like sort of twisted her words before she really got to say what she wanted to say. She still held her composure and was very well-spoken.
So I wrote who trained her because that's not something that you just know how to do. Instacart is on a mission to have you not leave the couch this basketball season, because between the pregame rituals and the postgame interviews,

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What really got me was just like, she literally was like, oh, I got out of prison a week ago. And like the massive adjustment period, like the massive adjustment you would think would require such a long period of time.
So I was like, I don't know how you're dealing with this because I don't, I would be like crying, screaming, throwing up, pooping. Like, I don't know.
It just would be like all of the above. I really thought it was cool that they started to introduce like her wanting to do advocacy work um I think that was cool and I was laughing when they were like I said having to say murder is wrong had me rolling because just the way that that played out was like you did what you had to do and I'm like first of all do you know what you just said like well I think there was a little bit of buzz around that whole incident right like there was like but that's why I was like the woman with the orange hair she could have just like chilled out and let gypsy speak what she was trying to say because she kind of tripped herself up um Ryan talking to the people out there about um like the fans on the street we have lots of places to be and so i said ryan likes the attention for sure like i literally wrote he likes the fame and attention yeah because i'm sitting here and i'm like looking at the dynamic and i'm like you could tell gypsy is the more reserved one and he is the more outgoing personality i would say and like the enjoying this I think.
I also thought when she said that Ken is a private person and she thinks that that was really the downfall, I am so curious to see what his involvement is in the show. Like, because that doesn't make sense to me.
If you're claiming he ended the engagement with you because he's private, but then he's going to be on the show because y'all are doing whatever you're doing. I'm very intrigued.
And I also was kind of thinking, like, comparing it to Elijah, he is not. He's a private person, too.
He didn't break up with you. You know what I mean? Okay, so two things on that.
Obviously, you know that we're working on something project i want part of that project to be he elijah he looks mad all the time and so it can come off different than what it actually is especially to for reality tv or anything that's similar to that right so it makes me nervous to throw him in the way that Gypsy and Ryan were thrown in. But it seems to me that Gypsy has the personality.
Ryan does seem to have the personality for it. And so like Elijah doesn't.
So he I do worry about that. Like, I don't know how it's going to come across to viewers and consumers.
And I'm not going to leave him over it. But like, I also want to show that development because for some people, it doesn't come easy like it did for Gypsy and for Ken or not Ken for Ryan.
Now, I did also write down, do we believe that Ken didn't like the fame and attention? Because if that's the case, why are you back? That's I think he was getting negative attention. And he was probably doing it for all the wrong reasons that this is just my take on it.
I think he was doing it for all the wrong reasons that this is

just my take on it i think he was doing it for all the wrong reasons and when because they are an odd couple when you look at them my take was that he was fucking around on the side so when it became public knowledge that they were engaged he broke it off because he had somebody else i need to Google Google Ken from... What's his...
Do we know his last name? I don't. There's something off about him.
Mm-hmm. And it's like...
Creepy off. Are they back together? That's what the...
Yes, that's why I can't wait to see his intro to the show i just something is not right so i'm very um intrigued in that situation to see i don't know

it just is weird i'm like looking at all these pictures i don't know

they seem like um what is the word i'm looking for? Not an odd couple, but. Yes.
Odd. Strange.
I don't know what's going on here. I just like Googling pictures.
I don't know. I think he's in it for the wrong reasons.
I think he saw that the fame and attention that he was getting from. You're right.
I think that when it got public, it fucked something up for him. Because that's what happened to me when I announced to my kid's father was, here goes everybody finding out.
He never wanted me to tell because he had other shit going on. So I think the same could be said here.
And then turn around and he's like, oh, I actually do like the fame and attention. Which is also similar to my situation.
Love that for us. Showing her walking around New York City, going from prison to New York City, I was like, that must be the epitome of overwhelming.
Like, there is no more overwhelming place that you could have gone out, like, besides New York City. So I was just like, she thought it was so cool.
She wasn't bothered. She didn't, it just, again, she just seemed cool, calm, and collected.

It didn't seem overwhelming to her.

But like, in my brain, I'm like, there is no way that you went from four walls to this.

And like, it's not like she experienced the world before she went to prison.

I'm curious to know, because when I got my nails done yesterday done yesterday my nail tech i love him because he always gives like lessons and stuff and he was talking about the prison system in vietnam and how people here in prison are like actually have it really well like made really well not saying that there's no dysfunction and that there doesn't need to be you know advocacy work and and prison reform not saying that but he was like compared to the prisons in vietnam like so maybe and also let's not forget that gypsy said she was free in prison like that's the freest she had ever been up until she got released so to her maybe there it wasn't that big of an adjustment because she's just getting freer than she already was does that make sense yes yeah um ryan comes from a really normal family. And I thought that was really interesting for the amount of hate that I've given him slash the entire general public has given him.
He comes from a very seemingly normal, like middle class, maybe middle class family. So before I get to my thoughts about that, I have a question.
So you heard like they were airing the comments that people were making on the street right like in new york they were you could hear the audio of people being like oh she didn't have a choice and didn't like whatever like oh gypsy we love you and all this stuff like as she's walking i just want to know do you think that the reception because everyone kept making comments referring to her as a child right so i was like do you think that the reception would have been the same if she were older when her mom, when the murder was committed? No. I didn't think so either.
No, I don't. I truly, I think that people give her the grace that she gets because she was so young and she was believed to be even younger than what she was.
And so when you're mentally stunted in that way and emotionally and mature, your maturity is stunted in that way. I think that we can give grace for that.
I don't think if she was 25 at that point, you are free to get up and walk out of your wheelchair and walk out of your house and say, this woman is batshit crazy and you can handle it very differently. I think that she, this was an overnight sensation, partially because she was still a child.

That's, that was my thought, too. And I just kept thinking about that.
And I'm like, where

I just wondered, like, if this situation went on for a couple more years longer,

what would this have actually looked like now? Would people have been so supportive of her

getting out of prison early, and being on parole, and, you know, getting a platform and all those

Thank you. What would this have actually looked like now? Would people have been so supportive of her getting out of prison early and being on parole and, you know, getting a platform and all those things? Like, obviously, she's had like, you know, nasty comments and stuff like that.
And people have like lashed out about it. But I just feel like the outrage would have been way more significant if she had been even a couple years older.
Well, I don't know that it would have gotten the coverage at all. i think a lot of us wouldn't even know because you know what i mean like it's not like um if she was just an adult it would be like a kind of like a crazy story but not necessarily the full-blown coverage that it would have gotten to that you know even like the way it was right like it wouldn't be because i would compare the the coverage of the Gypsy Rose phenomenon to Casey Anthony to OJ Simpson to like that's how maybe the Menendez brothers like these big high high profile cases had she been an adult I don't know that it would have been as high profile at all well so you brought up the Menendez brothers and I think it's so funny because they're coming.
Unless they're coming on this fucking podcast.

I know for anyone fucking listening.

I've tried.

I want to interview them.

I've been fascinated by that case for so long.

Yeah, go ahead.

Continue.

I think that it's funny how that one really has lost the luster factor.

Like no one really talks about it anymore.

It got re-brought back up with Gypsy getting out of prison.

And the way it was brought back up was people saying, well, if we're going to forgive her, then why are we not forgiving them?

Because we can't confirm.

The difference is that we cannot confirm the abuse and the neglect and all of the things that the Menendez brothers claim to be true.

We also cannot confirm whether or not there was molestation involved.

We cannot confirm that any of those allegations were fact, where I think that most people, if not all people, have corroborated Gypsy's story and the level of Munchausen by proxy that was at hand.

The other thing too, I want to not ignore is that the

Menendez brothers were flashing all of their Rolexes and cars, and there was a lot of money

involved. And so you have to wonder if any of that would be true for people like the Menendez brothers who conspired against their parents versus Gypsy Rose, who was literally by like, outside of her boyfriend at the time, she lived with this woman by herself, and there was not a lot of money and funds involved.
So it's not like she could have had ulterior motives for that, where like the Menendez brothers, like, did you make this up to potentially obtain your parents fortune? Like, is that what this was about? And so I still, I mean, I'm fascinated by the case, the Menendez brothers, but I also have, I still have a lot of questions that I would love to ask them. And just, because I do think that some people go to prison for these long amounts of time.
And I do think that some of them will finally tell the truth, like as close to the truth as they can get and I do think that Gypsy does do that like she takes accountability and I think that there's also forgiveness in that I feel like for the Menendez brothers I don't know that we feel like we're super close to the truth I think there's still a lot of question and unanswered unsure, unsure, unknown aspects, if that makes sense. I would agree.
I would agree. And I also, I just was like, it's very interesting how they can both be look, you know what I mean? How people wanted to compare.
You can't, you can't, you cannot compare. I would compare this Gypsy Rose situation to more, not, it's not identical.
It's not really similar, but I would compare this Gypsy Rose situation to more.

It's not identical.

It's not really similar, but I would compare it more to the Netflix special that I just watched, Till Murder Do Us Part.

I would compare it more to that because someone was manipulated into killing a parent.

And with that, they were really young.

I think those ones were college students.

And that one was a little bit different too

because the boyfriend full on takes accountability.

And he, I think there's just,

I'm more inclined to forgive someone

if they're willing to tell the truth

and you know it's the truth.

Like, you know that they are taking accountability.

You know what I mean?

Like, it's a feeling you get.

I don't know. And I don't know that the Menendez brothers are there yet, but also nobody's talked to them in a long time.
Right. Right.
So I thought that was interesting. I was dying laughing when she got the Louis Vuitton and Louboutin confused.
Wait, wait, back up.

That's too far ahead.

That's too far ahead.

What was the call that Ryan got while he was at his parents' house about the school?

It was like one of the parents had complained and they didn't think he was going to go back to work.

So did he, in fact, get fired?

Did he get let go?

Did he resign?

Like, what was the situation?

From what I was told by, like, listeners of the podcast and stuff, he was a special education teacher and he lost his job because of Gypsy. I also thought that it was funny because they made the comment about, oh, so-and-so, which I'm going to assume was probably a principal, assistant principal, someone like in charge of the school touching base with the teacher to see if they're coming back or somebody in administration made the comment of oh so and so appreciated your the d was fire comment i was like oh so like somebody brought that up or they saw that and made sure to like note that to ryan like here's the thing right like in the military you have the person that is in the military and then the spouse is a spouse they are a civilian and what they do can't really have enough like you can't get unless it's like weed and then it's in the house and then the military finds out like different story but i'm talking about like they're not one on one in the same so i just don't know know that Ryan should have been essentially punished for who he's married to.
Well, that goes back to a conversation you and Lindsay had on Coffee Combos a long time ago about the teacher that got fired for having OnlyFans. I don't think she should have been fired.
I just feel like what you do at your job is your job. If you're not harming anyone.
Like. Well, I also want to note, too, that if he is a special ed teacher, it's not like he's going in to teach regular high school English and these kids are just he's a huge distraction.
Right. Right.
So I also think that that is is important to know it's kind of like so something i noted was kind of like in your situation like you know that there's teachers at your children's schools who have had things to say about you any of your kids dads whatever the kids at school are probably don't even know what the hell is going on right like most likely have no idea it's the parents so to me unless if a student complained i think that like if a student was having a serious issue or whatever but the to allow the parents who ryan was really not involved with like we're looking at like a weird triangle here of like, he teaches your child. What, what do you think he's teaching them? You think he's teaching them that like murders a good idea? I probably not.
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I guess for the school, it could be a liability maybe because, and I only say that because you don't, I tell my kids all the time, like people will say whatever the fuck they want and there will be people that believe it, right? So, like, someone could accuse you of touching them, and you never touch them, right? Like, you have to be very careful. In a situation like this, if the parents don't like something, I do feel like it's possible that they could get creative and say, like, start things that aren't true, and then it becomes a liability for the school.
But I feel like that's almost the same risk as anywhere else. Oh yeah, 100%.
Unless students start killing off their parents, one cannot play into the other. So I just didn't, I don't know.
I just didn't really understand it. And I...
I mean, I agree with you. I do agree with you.
I was just trying to like play devil's advocate a little bit and see like if... It's just odd.
I mean, there's liability. I mean, there's liability for any employer these days because of social media.
That's literally why. Which is a scary place to be.
It's a really scary place to be. There's no job security anywhere.
No. So it's, and not even just social media, but just like people in general.
Because people have too much time on their hands um i also was saying that so i also thought that it was interesting that gypsy seemed so comfortable with his family the feeling i got of her being there versus the feeling i got of ryan being with her family completely different completely different well i don't want to be mean but like look at ryan right like his confidence probably isn't that high so do we think he pretends to be confident and that's why it comes across so bad yeah i think it's more of like he's doing the best he can but he probably has low self-esteem okay because i also my self-esteem i think at this point is pretty average and i also would be uncomfortable to go be around elijah's family right like it's just not where i'm comfortable i just and i'm sure it would come across you know what i mean guess, like, the way that I looked at it was, like, if you're looking at what, if you're looking at it through my lens, I'm like, okay, you've got this guy, Ryan, who's a teacher, probably does not have a criminal background, and you have a girl that conspired to murder her mom. So, like, I would look at her worse than I would look at him.
Wait, I need to know, when you put it like, like obviously that's who like gypsy did that. But like, what does Ryan's mom think about that? Like what? That's why I was like, she is so like taking a picture and like hugging and making food.
And then Ryan's over here and like the interaction was completely different with him and her family. So I was just very intrigued how open her his family seemed compared to how closed off it felt like her family was to him i would be if i was a mom if i was ryan's mom right like i would be highly concerned for my son no matter how far removed you are from the murder.
Like, whether you did it when you were 16 or you did it when you were 25, you did that. So, like, I would be concerned, right? Like, I would be scared for my son.
I think that's a natural. I mean, to me, it's natural.
That would be, like, a natural i would be like oh i don't i don't know how i would be as a parent but like i would hope that i wouldn't be one of those parents that's like you are absolutely not marrying them blah blah blah blah i don't fucking know i could be like that like you are out of your fucking mind i'm committing you next i that's really interesting like i'm sitting here thinking like if any of your kids came home and was like, I've been judged for, you know, my situation, right? Like I've been judged. I would say unfairly because you grow as a person, right? Can you grow out of murder? I don't know.
Like if you had the manipulate, the manipulating, uh, tendencies and the ability to conspire to murder, can you grow out of is it like you know in your adolescence you were just like nonchalantly plotting your mom's murder to going to be completely just reborn again like how does that work i truly don't know i don't know and, I know desperation can make people do a lot of things.

Like desperate people do a lot of shit. Clearly.
And like, if you feel like you have no other way

out and stuff like that, but I don't know, that would genuinely make me afraid. So I was very

surprised at the reception that it felt like it felt like the feeling watching it gave me was

completely different than the feeling I had with him with her family. Just questioning everything.
Yeah, it was, that was really interesting. Well, it's interesting that you say all that because I literally wrote, despite everything, Gypsy looks good and she looks like she's doing the best she can.
Like, I literally wrote that let's backtrack though because they go to look at a wedding venue ryan is pushing for this like real life real in-time wedding not in a jumpsuit the location is a vibe and i love that for them the location looks like somewhere i would get married with like all the plans the outdoor just like character i actually really liked it um

how did you feel about that i i think that he took it really well and i don't know if it was like a scene that was like set up so he kind of knew what to expect which then she gives pushback and like she doesn't want to get married because she feels like the timing is right so i was gonna I didn't ask you about that.

Her apprehension on doing that.

Was a setup for Ken. Well, yes.
But I also wanted to ask, do you feel like she was stalling? Yes. Because it was a setup because she was having second thoughts.
Well, that and did you hear what she said while at the wedding venue about us getting married in front of these people makes it feel like we're really doing this until death do us part and then she was like but like not like the first time didn't mean that and he's like no you're right it didn't like you know what i mean so i was like it almost felt like she thought the first one was like not real or for fun and games or didn't hold the same meeting as this ceremony would and i'm like maybe because her family would be there maybe like you know what i mean and i was like i gotta ask kale this because i feel like i could see you in a situation like this that would be where yeah you would be like okay everything is fine until it gets down to the nitty gritty of like actually getting married. And like, you might go along with it, but up until that shit is legal.
You're like, oh, I'm like, oh, fuck. Oh, like this got real, you know? So I was like, oh, I gotta get Kale's thoughts on that.
Then Gypsy wants to do therapy and... It was mandated to do therapy.
And that's great and good, right? Like we can hope that people who are mandated to do therapy get there and they realize it's better than what they thought or they commit in a real way. But we also know that just like anything else, until you acknowledge that there's a problem and until you actually commit to therapy in a real way, it does nothing for you.
So I hope that in Gypsy's case, I hope that she really does use it to like work through her stuff. My question today, right now, to Gypsy would be, knowing everything that she knows now, right? Like, she helped murder her mom, goes to jail, becomes an overnight celebrity.
And now she has her own TV show. Would she do this all again? Would she kill her mom again, knowing what the outcome is today? That's a really good question.
Because I say it all the time. I would never be where I am today if I didn't get pregnant and go on 16 and pregnant.
So would I do it all over again? Yeah, probably. I probably would.
Not for the fame, but for everything else. Like, I don't regret anything, right? So, like, it worked out.
But for her, someone was killed. Right.
Right. I mean this I'm not comparing the situations but you had a baby that's a permanent decision she somebody got killed that's a permanent decision that's more so what i mean like i made permanent decisions and ended up where i ended up she made permanent decisions in another way that helped her end up where she is today she would who knows what kind of hell she would be in if she didn't do it but would she do it again that's a really good question um when she took the picture well when she was in the workout outfit and you saw the scars and i actually felt sick to my stomach i was because i have forgotten i think a little bit about all the shit that was done to her and when I saw them and

just thinking about I'm not even a mom and I'm just sitting here thinking about like how could

one human force another human to undergo unnecessary medical shit that causes them physical pain

alters their body does whatever the hell we don't even know I'm sure we don't even know the half of

it truly and like think that it's okay and I get that like Munchausen's my proxy I get that it's

the we don't even know i'm sure we don't even know the half of it truly and like think that it's okay and i get that like munchausen's by proxy i get that it's a mental illness i fully understand that but like i as someone who does not live in the brain that her mom had i cannot understand how it gets that fucking bad that you think that that's a good idea i would love to talk to someone who has been diagnosed with mental health and by proxy. Like someone who...
Can you be sure of that? And do you get rid of it? I don't know. I'm like, can you get rid of it? Does it go away? Is that a mental illness that ever can be treated or go away? Like, is that...
I also wrote down, do we think that this would be an overnight celebrity obsession like an overnight celebrity slash obsession slash fashion fascination would this specific case have gotten the coverage that it got if dd wasn't murdered and gypsy just came forward because i think that we would i don't think so like i think it would still have gained something like people would be like what the fuck but do i think that it would get to the point of having her own reality show no i almost feel like it would be similar to what happened with the influencer mom that gave her kid back well she's about to have a whole documentary yeah like i think that could i see it being a a true crime documentary about like this occurring to somebody yeah okay so we think there would be some coverage maybe like other true crime cases or like some date line oh associated okay so potentially id channel episode potentially dateeline a couple headlines and then we're moving on yeah i think that's probably a fair judgment um go ahead when ryan when she was kind of expressing her apprehension about the marriage situation to ryan when they were back home in the apartment and he kept saying like i'm along for'm along for this ride with you. And she's trying to, like, explain how she's feeling.
I literally wrote down, must be an extremely lonely feeling, no one being able to relate. And I kind of was like, I got to ask Hale about that.
Because, you know, you do have supportive people, right? But, like, I'm sure there's shit that you've gone through that you know for a fact that there is absolutely nobody else that you talk to on a consistent basis that could actually relate and like how does that affect you um it's kind of kind of similar to like where i'm at now i feel like i'm in such a weird like i'm happy overall like genuinely happy but it does feel weird that like I, we tried the Christmas thing. I hate Christmas.
People still don't understand me. And like, when you think of a raging alcoholic, you don't think of, at least I don't think of like all that I went through with my mom.
Right. Like I just don't, so like, I don't have anyone to talk to about that.
And in the same way, cause you think of like an alcoholic is like, Oh, like they're a drunk, but not to the level of neglect and abuse that I went through. Right.
It's lonely. And then the effects of, in the aftermath are like where we are today.
So I, it's, it is lonely. It's a really hard, I don't, and she probably hasn't met anyone else aside from in prison where someone has killed someone in their family or like their mom.
Also, do people go to jail regularly for killing their parents? Like, I wonder if she's ever even talked to anyone at all. That's a good question.
I also just like, again, like at the same time, you're a victim yourself. So it's like trying to find someone that might be able to relate in that sense not even to the murdering your mom part but like to the i was a victim of my mother that's got to be really hard um i don't know i just i it made me gave me perspective as to when I've always been super careful to say like, oh, like I know exactly what you're going through.
I don't say that to anybody. Like I really try not to ever say that to anyone.
Yeah. Because I don't.
I don't because everybody's situation always has some type of unique twist, I think. So even if you went through something similar, I don't think there's anybody that can ever one 100 relate to whatever your exact circumstances right so I try not to say that so like him being like I'm here with you I'm here with you it's like he thinks he's being supportive I'm sure right like just like anybody who says like I'm here for you and whatever and it's like okay that's fantastic and I appreciate you but it is not the same and also he has a mom and stepdad that live in his the house he can't relate in any way shape or form and I almost think that sometimes that's harder than you know what I mean like he she someone that comes from just like a totally different world that could never understand.
They might empathize or sympathize, but like they can't ever. So like, is that helpful for her? I, she looked like she was getting frustrated as he was saying what he was saying to her.
She looked like, what I interpreted from her body language was that she's like he's not hearing me like he's not actually listening to what i'm saying he's just saying like basically oh i get it i really i whatever i'm here and it's like that's fantastic but sometimes people just need you to sit there and listen to them and not fucking say anything right and. And that sometimes feels better.

Somebody could ruin the good feeling you've got going on,

like venting by opening their mouth,

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Yeah. Sometimes just, like, being the listening ear and literally shutting the fuck up.
Best thing that you could do for somebody. The previews for next week look interesting.
Wait there's more what what so she has second thoughts about the wedding venue and she's like i don't think we should do this we should slow down like i'm not ready and he's like i want to start a family with you and she's like um that she wants a normal life and she wants to work a nine to five yeah a nine to five is crazy gypsy rose like you don't even have any skills yet like where where are we going with this nine to five what are we doing here um normal life starting a family if they want a family um if they want a normal life and a family will there be a season two because for someone who wants to live a normal life being on tv is not it i will say that very loud and clear um and i think i wrote down that this is her setting up leaving him i've been there i've literally put my ducks in a row where i'm saying i don't want to have more kids i don't want to do this or you hear you hear we have had friends that are like they went from wanting kids to not wanting them all of a sudden but it's not because they don't want them it's because i don't them with you. And I'm setting my ducks in a row so that I can have my exit plan and then go start a life somewhere else.
It happens all the time. Yes, this is true.
And then I wrote down Ken was the one that got away for Gypsy. So whether Ken's genuine, whether Ken's feelings are genuine or not, or he has ill intentions or whatever, which I don't get a good feeling.
I almost think that Ken is worse than Ryan. I think that Ryan probably does love Gypsy, but he probably also loves the fame and attention.
But Ken. Both can be true for Ryan, but Ken gets me bad vibes.
Ken, I think is worse than Ryan, right? Like, I think that he's even like, because I think that Ryan's confidence is low. I think that it is probably sort of fun for him to have this like fame and attention he's probably maybe always kind of been like an oddball is the is the vibe that i get um but ken i but gypsy you could tell that gypsy really loved him gypsy is a is distraught i so like when it skipped right into the previews and the stepmom was saying that he reached out again and that oh he's not seeing anybody and whatever again i'm like stepmom like what are we doing like to me again it was very obvious that they don't fuck with ryan right like it was even said in this episode that ryan said they did not want to see it married great we don't know what jitzy is telling her stepmom off camera she could be saying like how is ken like yeah you're that is correct so i just was like hmm this is really interesting like if you're at the point of you're keeping tabs on somebody regardless of in what way it's being reported to you or you're looking or telling somebody to report back to you or whatever you should not be married to somebody else you just shouldn't in my opinion with that I would agree with that so I just was like oh and then when she's like I have a commitment to my husband it felt very much like if she did not, she would clearly go back.
Is definitely how that felt. But when she said that she had a nightmare about her mom, I never even considered the fact that she might have nightmares about what happened to her.
Never even thought about it. Yeah.
Because, I mean, she heard her mom screams screams, so. So I was like, I wouldn't want to live probably, honestly, a day in her brain.
Well, I wonder what that, like, I don't want to know, but I wonder. Does that make sense? Yes.
Because I've done nothing that involves murder. I've made bad decisions and the guilt has eaten me alive, but they weren't necessarily like this level of permanent decisions.
Right. Like, right.
What would that sort of guilt feel like to live, to carry that with you for the rest of your life? Like I, I cut off my own mom by choice and it eats me alive every single day. It's like one of those things where, and it comes in waves, right? Like some days more than others, some weeks more than others, but like that alone, I think about on a regular bit, like a fairly regular basis.
What would that be like to kill some, like, I don't want to know, but like, I need to know. Does that make sense? To me, and it's not fair.
I'm not, it's not fair for me to judge, but just looking at the situation, she doesn't appear as if she feels guilty. She appears as if she's made amends with it.
In my opinion. But okay, so I've made amends and I'm at peace with my decision to cut my mom off.
That doesn't mean it doesn't still hurt on some days and weeks. That's more so what I mean.
So I guess the same would, I would imagine would be true for her. It's like, she's come to terms with the decision of committing the murder.
But how does that, does that make sense? You know how you will have like um like i would say when you're experiencing that it's for people who actually know you it's pretty easy to tell when you are guilty conscious about something anxious stress like it's easy because you like learn a person i feel like that's anybody, calm, and collected, like, when you're going through shit, you are not cool, calm, and collected. You know? Like, I don't, I'm not saying you're, like, frantic and that, like, everybody in the world knows something's wrong.
But, like, the people around me. I just go with myself.
I fucking know when something is up, right? Yeah. Yeah.
I don't know her in real life. So maybe that's, that's that's a circumstance and again we're only seeing these little bits on tv so i don't know what it's like on the other 99 of her days and stuff but like she's so i need to get her on this podcast to ask her these questions because i don't think these are the questions that she's being asked.
Like, okay, you've come to terms with your decision. Like you've accepted and acknowledged and apologized for this.
What is it like to live with those thoughts sometimes? Like when they come back to haunt you and you have nightmares, what is it like for you on a daily basis inside Gypsy's head? Like, does it come, like, do you think about it daily? Do you think about about it weekly do you not think about it at all do you block it out like repressed memories like what does that look like for you also like when she says she wants to work live a normal life and not be known as the girl who killed her mom how does she think that that is achievable i want to know like the inner workings of these thoughts and these like ideas that she has. Do you think when she says that she should think- At a bank? When she says that like she just wants to be normal and she doesn't want to be known as the girl who killed her mom, do we think that that's just like an internal desire being vocalized and she knows that that's never going to happen? Or do we think that she thinks somewhere in her head, like, that could potentially happen? No, I think that...
I think it's the first thing that you said. Like, internal desire being mobilized.
Because do we think that without a man, I'm not talking about Ken or Ryan, that Gypsy Rose would live a sustainable lifestyle by herself working a nine to five? Because I don't. I truly, I don't know.
I really don't know because she's adjusted to this craziness seemingly well. So like, who's to say? I'm not saying she wouldn't adjust to it.
I don't think that people would hire her. And I don't think that she would be able to make the income that she would need to make in order to sustain a lifestyle, a normal lifestyle on her own, especially after all the media attention that she's gained.
And I'm sure she's getting paid for some level of appearances. She's getting paid for the show.
Like that is not like, that would be like me going and becoming a server right that can never happen that can't happen yeah like it could but it couldn't does that like you wouldn't be able to support based off that i wouldn't be your options are limit your options are limited. Yeah.
Like you can't just go get a normal nine to five. Like that's not how, like she'd have to work in a call center where nobody's going to see her.
Well, it's kind of, I'm thinking like Casey Anthony went and she ended up working for her own, I think it was her own attorney. Yeah.
Like she would, Gypsy Rose would have to have a situation like that or a call center or a where, like she she'd have to work somewhere that would be not in the public, general public, where she's going to get recognized regularly, where she can have a limited skill set until she can further that. I mean, and I'm pretty sure that Casey Anthony went and lived with her attorney for a long time.
Yes, I believe so. So I don't know't know and i'm not talking shit i'm just like wondering how it would be like feasible for her to live that'd be a hard one uh that would be that would definitely be a hard one i kind of was actually surprised when she was walking around new york i couldn't tell if she had security until this one part where it looked like there was security potentially like that got shown in one clip and i was like i don't know if that's her security or if she doesn't have security but like when she made the comment about like um are you know are there dangerous people that she should be like concerned about i'm like i would be fucking concerned because there's people who have very strong opinions and i know that there's a huge difference between people on social media that are just like fucking yahoos and keyboard warriors right but like i definitely think that like it's a little bit different than just like not liking a reality star type of person right like you committed a crime and right there are people who have big feelings about that i i don't know it's just it's it's interesting because like i have thoughts about people redeeming themselves that maybe go to prison for like gang crimes or like they kill someone because they were an addict or like i'm trying to think like car accident i think that those people have redeeming qualities sometimes and is more forgivable than like manipulating and like masterminding and being a ringleader to i i just don't know how you turn that off but like you said the desperation conversation where you said that like desperation will cause people to do different things like very interesting I'll be really interested to see how this plays out and I'm not hating by any means like I have no room to judge gypsy bros I'm just trying to like dissect.
Yeah. Dissect and pick her brain.
It's interesting. We'll be circling back with episode four of Gypsy Rose Life After Lockup.
Kristen and I watched the show on Lifetime through Philo. And I think the episodes drop on Mondays.
So you guys can go watch those episodes it's called Gypsy Rose Live After

Lockup and we'll talk to you all next week thanks for joining me Kristen I'm barely fucking famous

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