Life After Lock Up - So This is Freedom?

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This is Bob.

Welcome to the shit show.

Things are going to get weird.

Get weird.

It's your fave villain, Kale Wally.

Kale Wally.

And you're listening to Barely Famous. It might be the next one in prison.
Can we call it a delusional Thursday? It is a delusional Thursday. And I have Kristen back ready to attack.
And welcome, welcome fuckers to Barely Famous. Now we're covering the Gypsy Rose show on Lifetime.
I wanted to watch this so bad, so I'm very excited. Love After Lockup, baby.
Okay, I have several pages of notes, mainly just reactions because... Oh, I have notes and questions as well.

I also have reactions and questions more than actual...

Anything, right?

Like I don't have anything specific or...

What is the word I'm looking for?

I don't have anything profound to offer.

I just have a lot of questions. I think I was left

with more questions than answers, truthfully. Okay.
So where do you want to start? Episode one

is called So This is Freedom. Which, after getting to the end of the episode, hearing the quote that

was said about like, she's not actually free, makes so much sense now. I'm still

We'll see you next time. episode it was absolutely the quote that was said about like you're not actually she's not actually free makes so much sense now I'm still stuck on the fact that the dad didn't try harder like I want to forgive him because he seems like a good guy now and I think um over the course of my years podcasting and on all of the shows we've discussed to some capacity parents specifically being one person at one point of their lives.
And then as they get older, mature, and just are better human beings on the later part of their lives, I want to forgive her dad. And it seems like she's forgiven her dad, but I haven't forgiven her dad.
And I'm still really upset that he didn't try harder to be a part of her life and I know that that's what was a common theme in the episode he says that you know he regrets not trying harder so I had questions too because I can't remember for the life of me why he wasn't involved what was the like what were the circumstances as to why he wasn't so allegedly he tried to be involved but Didi kept making it really hard for him to be involved and kept moving further and further away. And then slowly, I think, allegedly cut off a lot of the communication.
I also think at some point he probably stopped trying, which is the same thing that my dad said, like my own dad said that. I don't know.
Didi's not here to say otherwise. And if she was, would we believe her? Well, so I guess my question for that is, to what degree did you try? Did you get the law involved? Did you get legal involved? Because it seems pretty cut and dry.
I mean, I can name a few people that I know that would love to be able to cut off communication with people that they have children with.

And that's just not allowed because of the legal system. Well, and there's a such thing as welfare checks, right? Like I would imagine at some point you would have to wonder, like, is my child even okay at this point? You know what I mean? Like, obviously we've all seen me not get along with my kids' dads at some point, right? But I know that if they didn't respond to me for, and I was supposed to get them, or I was supposed to have contact with them, or after a certain amount of days, I would be calling the police.
I would be reporting at some point missing person, kidnapping. I would be reporting something.
Yeah. So I couldn't remember for the life of me what that situation was, but I felt some of the same vibes.
I felt like you're a good guy now, but where the fuck were you was exactly what I wrote down. Um, so, you know, didn't really, I wasn't loving that situation.
Um, also what I noted too, um, he seems to be in a good place. He's clean cut has a nice home a good wife he had another child all of those things further my questions about him because he says he has regret but did you start reaching out once the media got involved here or immediately following dd's murder before the camp because obviously she was going through some shit before the media got a hold of it, right? So did you try reaching out to her before the cameras and all of the attention came? Or because I just, I'm having a really hard time with that.
Like Eminem always said he would go to the edge of the Atlas for Haley, right. Like where is that energy? Right.
So I, I have an agreement with you there. Very beginning of the episode where they were interviewing Gypsy and she was still in prison.
She said that she feels she has outgrown the prison version of herself. And she wants her family to be proud of her.
I literally, and this is a question I'm asking myself and everybody else. Can you actually ever be proud of somebody who murdered someone else? I think I still stand on.
She did the only thing that she thought she could at the time. Obviously hindsight is always 20, 20.
We know that. But at the time, I think this was her only solution.
This was her best. I also, um, she also said she doesn't want to be remembered as the girl who killed her mom or the girl that suffered from Munchausen, Munchausen by proxy.
But in her specific scenario, it's not like me with teen mom, right? Like you would think that I've done enough by now to not be remembered as teen mom. And I think that it's easier for me to get away from something like that.
Whereas Gypsy, she can't be remembered for who she is without that attachment, unfortunately, the way that I see it yeah I didn't understand that part because I'm like you're forever in my opinion that label is always and forever going to be on you especially because she became a celebrity because of it right like no what no matter how you put it and I'm not talking shit that's not me I don't mean to say that in a derogatory or like mean way, but she became famous because of what she did. And let me not even, I don't know, but it's right.
It's what she did, who she did it to in the circumstances surrounding what led to that

happening. Yes.
Right. That was absolutely sensationalized.
And she, you know, became

known because of the situation.

But then I just made the comparison to myself or maybe Chelsea from Teen Mom.

Chelsea from Teen Mom can now be remembered as,

it's almost forgotten about that she was on Teen Mom, right?

Like she is from HGTV.

She has her own like home stuff.

I have had more people reach out saying,

oh, like I listened to the podcast.

Right. But like, I think it's a little bit different.
That's how we started by doing something unfavorable. Right.
Like we got knocked up in high school, but we could, anything that we do from here on out, we could potentially be remembered. Cause there are people who are following us strictly because of what we're doing now for her anyone who follows her story is coming from the fascination of her murdering her mom her mom definitely and I think the majority of people are going to remember her from this forever I think that there are potentially depending on what she chooses to do now and later there might be be people who have never heard of this, right? Like younger generations or something like that.
Never heard of this entire situation. Didn't follow it.
Like we did that might follow a project she's doing or might find out about something she's doing somewhere else. And it could be the same circumstance, right? Like I know you from this, then maybe I go look you up and I see that you did this, this and this, but I'm, that's not why I know you.
I know you because like there's people now, it's like, I know you from TikTok. I don't know that you might've had a background doing something else for the last 10 years, but, oh, I saw you on TikTok or I saw you because you're coming up on my Goodreads and I'm a huge book lover.
So you just had Girthmaster on the podcast and he had absolutely no idea that you were on Teen Mom. That's not where he knew you from.
Right. But I don't think, I don't think, unfortunately it's not fair, right? Like life's not fair.
I don't think that Gypsy is ever going to have that because the second someone finds interest in who she is and why she has this mass cult-like following, they're look her up immediately because there has been times where people come up on my for you page right and i have no idea who they are but they have a huge following the first thing i do is google who they are so i think that she's going to have a harder time because there's such a fascination with what she did that there is no way to not know what she did where for me i think I think it's, it's kind of like some of the unfavorable, like remember the naked horse pick, right? Like you have to dig for that, right? Like you have to fucking dig for it. I think teen mom now, as time goes on, yes, you're always going to be able to find it, but other stuff comes up first.
Yeah, correct. And that's, that's basically what I'm saying.
Like, you know, you gained the following you gained at the time you gained it. And then I think it started up again when like the younger generation started being able to like see the clips on TikTok, right? They were like, Oh, what is this? Exactly.
They had no idea. But so many people now know you from like tuning into your podcast because they're podcast listeners and they found a new one and it was one of yours.
Right. So, so many people can find you that way.
So I definitely think that it's a little bit different because you, while it may have been unfavorable, how you ended up gaining popularity, right? Like society says, you're not supposed to get knocked up as a teen. Okay.
Um, that's not, it's completely different than like a horrific crime. Agreed.
Agreed. Cause there's going to be some people in her circumstances where they don't feel like she deserves all of the things that came after that murder.
Right. Like where I think getting pregnant in high school is a little, is slightly more forgivable, but then she also, like I said, this fascination that surrounds death and murder is, I mean, that's why there's true crime, there's ID channel, there's, you know, 2020 Dateline, all of the, you know what I mean? So it's a different kind of fascination, but I don't think that she'll ever be able to get away from the girl who killed her mom or the girl who suffered from Munchausen by proxy.
No. And I do, you know, I do truly wonder, you know, obviously depending on what she does, like, and this goes for like anybody that's a family member of someone who commits murder.
This is like literally what I'm saying. Can your family ever actually be proud of you? Because I would for that would require a lot of like forgiveness depending on the circumstances I I do think that you could forget like just coming from a mother's standpoint like I look at my kids and if I mean not that I knock on wood I hope they by accident or by choice.
Um, um, a parent's love is supposed to be unconditional. And I don't think that I would not love my child because they killed somebody.
Okay. Valid.
So I'm trying to think like of other circumstances where we know of someone killing someone and then

like essentially be still being accepted by their family. Like who do we, who do,

who have we heard of? Right. Like look at like Chris Watts, for example,

like he still had this like overwhelming fan club of women. Right.

And I think they're absolutely delusional.

It's different than like your family,

but I can't honestly say that I would just not be proud of my son for other things you know what i mean or my daughter really okay um interesting mom perspective because for me not having kids right in this specific situation with gypsy i feel like i agree with what you said like she didn't think she option. Right.
But like, if I know someone that literally killed somebody in cold blood and I was like their sibling. Me, look at me.
For example, if I killed somebody, would you forgive me? Would you ever be proud of me for anything ever again? I don't know. That's my, I don't know personally.
And, and you know, I love you to fucking death. Right.
But I think it depends truly like on the circumstances. If you told, if you turned into some psycho, absolute psychotic killer, and just like, we're rampaging on the side and I found out about it, I don't know what the fuck I would feel.
I truly don't. But think about what you just said though..
If I turned into a psycho and was rampaging, it's very different than the circumstances that surrounded Gypsy's case, right? Yeah. And for her, I feel like, you know, I think, I don't think her family will struggle, but I'm just curious about other families.
Like, how you even get past that to then be able to get to the point of being proud of someone, because there has to be a lot of healing that has to take place. But you know what? Didn't, doesn't the Bible or something say something about like only God can judge, right? Like, or all sins, no sin is greater than the other.
Would a sin be a father essentially not trying for their daughter? Like how is. would i would assume i think it i think a sin is pretty much like anything bad like sticking your tongue out at your parent is like a sin in some religions i guess i'm going to hell oh for sure i was going there before i even came out of the coochie like oh same like when my mom got pregnant with me they were like this one's this one's a dud this one's a dud um so I mean realistically they can't say anything because none of them were there walking in the shoes that she was walking in that is true that is um immediately upon the conclusion actually by the time we got like 20 minutes in it quickly became the Ryan show for me is his name Ryan his name so I kept right i couldn't remember his name because it was that not memorable to me i kept writing husband but i did go back and look and his name is absolutely ryan and i had the second note that i have down is how cool it was to watch the family prepare for her to be home they're so excited and all i notated was husband not really doing much weird fucking energy.
The husband is the weirdest, cringiest. Yes.
I think I've ever seen on TV. This is, and I, I'm going back to teen mom.
I seemed very cold and defensive in all of my relationships. I think, um, Jordan, Joe, Jordan, Javi, Dom, whoever was on the show seemed very cold.
Cause it's awkward to show that for me to show that kind of love on TV. Now to watch it from a point, a standpoint of Ryan, I was so skeeved out.
He didn't even give her a second to breathe. Everything was give me a kiss.
Give me a kiss. Didn't give her a second to just breathe in the fucking fresh air and just have a minute to herself.
It's like, she's literally gone from living with her mom and only knowing that to living with a bunch of people in prison and having meals provided for her and whatever else went on in prison to immediately going into this. And also, I do wonder what the reasoning was for her family not being able to participate in her pickup.
Was it because it was so far away? So that I was confused on too. I was like, why? They made it explicitly clear that they had been waiting like the eight and a half years or whatever.
And Ryan had only been waiting three. But Ryan was the one to go get her.
And I'm like, is it you're only allowed one person in the car to come get you? Like, is that maybe that was like I didn't know but I also I wrote that down because I was like what the hell is going on she also made a comment before she got out saying that Ryan's so different from her exes and I wanted to ask you because I can't remember isn't she currently with a fucking ex I believe she is or she was going to be also so we know that they were married in prison right so maybe because he was the spouse oh it maybe like legally you know because think about it right like if you are only allowed one person and you're getting out of prison you're gonna pick cory over your mom right i mean it depends on the day true true especially because of how close you and your mom are i would agree with that i think yeah i mean I would agree you're the closest thing I have to I mean I have a sister but you and I have always just been closer it would be hard for me to and I was coming to get me kind of thing right like I think that they all serve different purposes like looking in my life at like my mom is like I don't feel like I have to act any type of way with my mom I have cussed her out she has seen me at my absolute worst at my absolute best everything in between we've gone through all the fucking shit right and I think it's just such a different relationship and comfort like when I don't feel good, I want my mom. When I, you know,

I'm really upset. I want my mom first, Corey second.
It's just how it is for me. So do you think that we can acknowledge that because we're on the outside? Because I do feel like, especially now that I'm 32, I can look at a situation and be like, okay, initially, just because, I mean, I tell you more than I tell Elijah.
So I think initially just to have that comfort, but also space, I feel like I would call you first just because it's different and you've been around longer. And just be able to be with no expectation.
Like that. Yeah.
I immediately, I immediately felt the pressure on her to have sex with him yes i fucking notated that i'm like everything with him he's talking about the physical things like what in the fuck is going on i also her just like she specifically said um first of all first of all let's back the fuck up for a second you're not getting in my pants after I got out of fucking prison and you literally hand me a box while driving with my fucking wedding ring that you I couldn't wait to wear. You couldn't even make it a whole production like later on.
I said most non-romantic way to give her the ring. What the fuck shit was that? That was like you couldn't put something more special together for her for that like I know she was excited about getting it but she wasn't even asking that we know of she wasn't even asking about it right like right getting out of prison was probably the only thing on her mind that was it actually made me really upset and it made me question all of his intentions because I just feel like he's fascinated more so with Gypsy Rose that killed her mom.
Because he also, first of all, he was taking up, he was laying in the middle of the bed and she had like the edge. And he was like laying and like caressing her and like, stop, please don't do that.
And she said, I want to just be, and he kept fucking touching her. And I was getting so mad for her because I'm like she just told you exactly

what she needs and wants and you're not respecting that like to it just felt it felt gross I also felt extremely grossed out when he said on the phone um yeah we're going straight to the hotel I was disgusted like why are you saying that to her family I just I can't that it pissed me off so, no, it felt like the Ryan show. That's what it felt like.
So, um, I wrote down in here, how does anyone prepare for a high profile release like this? Cause they, she got a phone call or he got a phone call for the prison and was like, do you think anyone will follow you and things like that? Like, how does the prison prepare for something like that? Because if people know of her release and he was to leave the prison like premises obviously people were following him and they did show that so how do you what do you even do in a situation like that because you don't want to go directly home and have people follow you but i know i was curious about that aspect because we have seen we've been able, obviously from this side, the media is able to get footage and clips of people being released, like high profile people. So for this one, like the way they literally did that shit at 3.15 in the morning to make sure that that didn't happen, I was like, okay, so then are the ones that we've seen pre-staged essentially? Or is that by chance? Because you'd think that all prisons would have the same rules.
They don't, because they're private. Some of them are privately owned.
I meant security-wise. Like, security on the outside, I would have assumed that, like, protocol is protocol.
Like, you're trying to be incognito when it comes to high profile, right? So then I immediately was like, the ones that we've seen was the stage. Was it on purpose? Like how were they able to obtain that footage? If this one was handled this way, I totally hear what you're saying is because they're privately owned, it's probably different and whatever.
But I just thought that was really interesting. And I also thought it was weird that no.
so he went, he got her, he got out.

No one followed him back to the hotel at all.

Nobody was following him.

So I will say the.

No one was following them in the morning.

They got to where they were shopping and all of a sudden there's paparazzi.

And I'm confused because I'm like, did y'all, did someone call them?

They must've, or maybe truthfully maybe maybe they did well that's what I was saying like did Ryan because immediately my head I was like oh my god I wonder if fucking Ryan called them because you have to think about production and editing right like we love lifetime obviously I'm not saying anything about them but I could have done things while filming a show.

Like while we were filming team mom,

I could have easily texted or called someone and said,

where were you going to be?

You know what I mean?

Maybe Ryan did it.

Cause I don't trust his intentions.

I mean,

I was skeptical.

I was like,

you are a shady motherfucker.

So I notated that immediately.

I do want to say,

and you could probably,

you know,

speak to this too,

because you have kids with people that have. significant others now.
I give so many kudos to Gypsy's stepmom. I said, stepmom should be example for all stepmoms.
She could have not wanted to have any parts of this shit and instead accepted her as her own and guided her through this journey. But see, I have a different perspective.
One of the things that I wrote was, what are the feelings on dad and stepmom? He wasn't around now, but he's everywhere now. So this goes back to the conversation that we initially had about Gypsy's dad.
Is she along for the ride because of the media and the attention and the show and everything else, or the second that they found out about this, were they notified and did they come running or was it later on? I don't know how I feel about that. So something was said, and I didn't write that part down, but it stood out to me.
Something was that the step-mom had said, and I forget her name, to be honest, I didn't write it down. She said that Gypsy told her that she was afraid that everyone was going to leave her after they heard everything.
And she said after the first day they were in court and heard everything, she said, like, we're not, like, I'm not going anywhere, whatever to her. And I just i just feel like um just from like people i know and the relationships they have with their stepchildren there's i don't think that there's many people that want to be associated with a murderer regardless necessarily of like the you know it's not good attention you're not getting good attention at all but just see well she is she is now but she wasn't she always was i see i don't know i i never saw from the second i found out about this case i was fascinated and i said from the beginning on coffee convos lindsey and i both said she deserved to be free and not go to prison as long as she did so i So I think there were more people torn when she was getting sentenced than there are now.
Obviously, there's always going to be people who think that she should have been in longer. But my skepticism is saying that when they saw the outweigh of support versus hatred hatred because initially we didn't really hear much from the dad and the stepmom when her for her case first first first hit the media we didn't hear anything about them trying to think back i don't i don't know if they were but i didn't even this is the first time I'm hearing that she had a half sister.
Yeah. I didn't know that the dad started.
I also don't think we were accepting interviews at all. That, like this, the three of them, I don't think we're accepting interviews at all.
He has been interviewed before. I meant like initially, when you said like way back, like we didn't hear about him.
I don't think initially he was accepting. That makes me wonder, why did you not accept it right off the bat?

Why did you, it almost feels like they waited to see what the public opinion,

well, the court of public opinion.

I definitely see your point.

I just think that clearly for a bond to have been formed to the point of Gypsy referring to her stepmom as a mom, this is just my opinion, right? Like, this is her mom. She says that.
And that they have, like, a great bond, all this shit. There had to have been pretty significant communication while in prison.
And after you did all the prison bride stuff seeing how many of them like fell

off with people outside of prison that didn't really continue communicating with them all the time even down to family but that's what i'm saying kristen it's because of the media attention to it they were like oh we gotta we gotta latch on that's i'm not saying that's the case i'm just saying that my my my my radar is just having that on alert because i'm not saying that's the case but i would be curious to know how soon they were notified involved and all of that i i totally see what you're saying also i had ptsd when the sound of ryan turning off the gopros with beeps, I immediately cringed. I was like, uh, PTSD.
Um, I think the thing with Ryan that truly really pissed me off and I, I felt so many feelings about it. Did you catch the comment that he made about the sleep apnea mask? Um, I wrote it down.
I'm not like your mom. And the and the look on her face well first of all the look on her face when he said what he said and then when he turned around and said I'm not your mom I was just like why my jaw dropped I actually rewound it to re-hear what he said because I was like I couldn't have caught that right what would you do what would you even like that's something that you don't get to ever speak up about you don't get to speak of it you don't get to bring it up you don't get to make comments you don't get to make slick comments you don't get to say anything unless gypsy rose blanchard brings it up her damn self you don't get to even mention it no and that's exactly how I felt I literally wrote down the not your mom joke feels extremely on purpose and mean no that's like bullying it felt and like there's just her reaction I felt like really bad for her I also thought it was wild and I don't know why I didn't think about this but she did not know how to text and I thought that was crazy and I was like what things it made me think about like what things are second nature to us that other people have no fucking clue how to do.
Him letting her try a vape. Well, and I don't know the rules of parole, but I also was wondering, like, is that against parole? I actually thought that, too.
But I was like, if it's tobacco, probably not. But also, why would you even because what if she decided she liked it and continues vaping like why would you even why would you even do that it was just I never in a million years has Elijah looked at me he quit he quit vaping thank god um he has never a million years looked at me and said do you want to try my vape because he went from cigarettes to vape to the little thing he has never been like here try my vape no cory used to vape all the time when he was fake trying to quit smoking because i hated that he smoked never ever did he ever ask me to try his vape i would have lost my shit like i just i don't feel like that was appropriate.
Also, he's a fucking Android user. So that's the number one.
Huge, wrote that down. Huge red flag.
He drives a Cadillac. What does he do for a living? I, that I also don't know.
I have no idea. I was really pissed off that it didn't really seem like her first comment that we can hear when she was getting released where the boots don't fit i thought that was like a couple things i felt right so i'm like who the fuck brought her the

boots because i immediately thought ryan and i'm like you didn't even get appropriate stuff

for your fucking wife so now i also fucking hate you. I mean, the shoes absolutely should have been the correct size, right? Like wild clothes.
You don't, you can't really, you can't really gauge. I don't, especially because if you get close too soon and then you lose weight weight or gain weight or whatever and like things just run different sizes okay fine but the shoes like you know your fucking shoe size so the fact that he did it and also if you're getting out at three or four in the morning why are you giving her these like boots knee-high boots jeans and a sweater why are we not doing like some sweats and some yes some crocs like let the girl be comfortable she doesn't want to be dressed to the nines at 4 a.m it felt that felt so weird i also was annoyed the day they left the hotel and he he kept saying oh it's cold do you not check the weather ahead of time because you also didn't bring her a fucking jacket because he's only worried about him his damn self you saw him put a jacket on why didn't you think of one for her and then i saw her end up with a jacket after they left the store but she told the paparazzi she bought the boots but i also think she bought the jacket there because i think he's a fuck and didn't bring her one mcdonald's needs to sponsor gypsy rose i was so i was just so bothered by that because i'm like you're supposed to be your You're the one that is going to get her.
If you could not give her all the things that she needs, like to feel comfortable and prepared, then bow out. Be like, no, sorry, I'm not the one who can get her.
Unless again, it's like a legal thing. I have no idea.
I want to know how she felt if she watched it back. Because Ryan was getting predatory to me.
Yes. I need to know, especially if they're not together now, like what this looks like for her hindsight.
I feel like her release was so clouded by him. Well, he kept saying everything about him.
I'm so excited this. I've been waiting three years.
Multiple times he said that. I've been waiting so long.
It's not fucking about you, dude.

You've been walking around the free world. I don't, I don't understand.
So I quoted in my notes, it said, quote, she gets to live a normal life. I don't remember who exactly said that, but she'll never get to live a normal life.
I don't know why anyone, anyone would suggest that. She literally went from Munchausen by proxy, not having a relationship, like a real quality relationship with her dad to going to prison for 10 years to immediately getting in this relationship with Ryan, who in my opinion is not the best for her.
And she became an overnight fucking celebrity. Like people waited for her to get out of prison.
Nobody forgot about her in those 10 years that she was in prison. Like not a single person.
We were waiting for follow-ups. We were waiting for updates.
We were waiting for all of that. And even now it's like, she's a full on celebrity.
So she will never live a normal life. Calm.
We hope that she can live a calm life maybe, but a normal life where the, I would put her notoriety up there with like Casey Anthony.

Yes.

But as a survivor,

like it's weird.

Not the same.

I'm just saying like the same level of interest.

I would say,

how do we feel about the survivors that are also victims?

Like,

I don't even know.

Does it take away what she survived?

Does she?

Cause I don't think it does.

I think that I truly think that I probably would have done the same situation I would have done the same thing in her shoes I think being a survivor and you know a murderer um they're both can exist I think you see it clearly with her I think both can exist and I don't think one should take away from the other right like I think that people are allowed to dislike what she did and not agree with what she did and obviously she served her time we all recognize it like yes that is a crime and then also now like support her on her healing journey. So be proud of where she's going.
Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't, I don't know if it's like, like, I don't know if I'm proud, right.
I'm very intrigued to see what she chooses to do. Like, are you going to go down a good path or a bad path? Like I look at her, like she's like, the way I'm looking'm looking at her is like she's literally a child like we've talked how many times about how being in the spotlight and doing certain things in the entertainment industry can obviously stunt your growth it's mine exactly like we've talked about that how many times I I feel like and even her I think it was her stepmom said she's making 17 18 year old decisions in the preview for next week's episode I genuinely feel like she is so far behind in the social and like world capacity that I hope she goes down the good path, but I think she's so impressionable.

And I think that's probably why she ended up with fucking Ryan.

And then letting her ex back in,

which was clearly a media attention grab.

Clearly.

It's going to be so interesting.

I would need to know your thoughts,

seeing the full story play out about the Kansas City Chiefs game situation.

Well, before we get there,

I have to make a comment about all of these documentaries making, they're literally using TikTokers and TikToks as references and footage to documentaries. This is, I cannot count how many docu-series, documentary shows are now using TikToks for that, right? Like the Johnny Depp one had it.
This one had it. I know they call mostly harmless.
You'd use like Facebook stuff. But it's so, isn't that so crazy? Like how we've evolved in the social media world.
Like people are truly becoming journalists from their phones like in the comfort

of their own home they're not going to school for it they're literally following up getting the documents getting all the information and then making a tiktok and then going on documentaries it's crazy i love it honestly because i follow you i pay attention to so many of the people that were actually on like their clips got shown i think i follow every single one of those people that their clips were shown.

Yeah, and one of them started the journey with Gabby Petito. And that's how I found her.
Yep. And I was like, Oh my God.
Like, cause I look at her page all the time and see like which crimes she's covering. Cause she also covers a lot of crimes that aren't getting media attention at all.
And I'm like, Holy shit. I didn't know this was going on until I came to your page.
So I think it's just really cool. And I think, I think it can be extremely overwhelming, right? Like trying to absorb all the information that's out there, of course, because it's, you know, it's a, it's a literal free for all.
I don't think there's a lot of inaccurate information that gets spread around and then people think it's accurate, just like the internet. But I think, you know, I'm actually super impressed with how many people I think found outlets and I don't want to say hobbies, new skills, new careers, all based off of social media.
I think that that's so cool to me. That's so cool to me.
In terms of the whole Kansas City, Taylor Swift, whatever, I have a lot of feelings on it. And I wrote a lot of notes down.
The first thing that I wrote down, no surprise, Ryan talking over the parole slash probation officer, fucking irritating. And he even went as far as trying to grab the phone from Gypsy.
He is toxic. He is not healthy for her to be around.
And I'm not like, she's's on a professional phone call you don't get to talk over her talk for her and grab the phone from her no one thousand percent and then i literally said why the fuck is the husband speaking while she's what is wrong with him what is wrong with him i I also, you know, with that situation, that whole situation that played out about the parole thing, like taking it for the entire thing, I have, that was like the, so to me it was like the legal system is fucked all the way down from start to end, right? So did she originally have permission to do this?

Because she says in the show, she had permission from her probation or parole officer, right? I know firsthand, I mean, just with the land stuff that I just went through one, one person at the levy court told my realtor one thing, and the same exact person told me another. So I know firsthand that that can happen.
Is it a situation where the probation officer originally told Gypsy something and that was wrong information? He wasn't he or she was not actually allowed to give the permission and was trying to walk backwards. Or was this an actual like she tried to get away with it or like, you know what mean like I'm kind of looking at all angles of it was it actually a miscommunication or was she just trying to get around it I couldn't really tell so I definitely like was like okay was this like a misunderstanding she didn't understand what she was told initially you know whatever but then I looked on it looked at it out of like a different lens and i remember seeing the whole shit pop up about like oh like gypsy rose wants to go to the kansas city game to meet taylor swift is she a stalker blah blah blah taylor swift should feel fear for her life like i saw all these freaking things and i was like what in the hell is going on because like if this is the if this is what's happening what the fuck but like there wasn't a lot of information made public except for she was asked to leave I don't remember if it was the city or the state and I was like what how does that happen like a state can just say you're not allowed to be there like and you've done absolutely nothing wrong so seeing it from this angle I time out.
Like, what the hell is going on?

It's clearly a communication issue.

And at the point where the parole officer of the one state was arguing with the attorney about she has to go report to this other fucking state. And he's like, they're not even open until the third.
She needs to report immediately. What the fuck does that mean? Well, the other thing thing too was um the media outside of the show made it seem all related to taylor swift yes and like she was stalking taylor swift but on the show they had not talked about the game yeah had nothing to do with like so like maybe it was that she would have been excited to see taylor swift but not necessarily that she was going specifically for taylor swift right well that's exactly what it was said in this side of it she said i think the what came out about it was she said that she it would be cool to see her there but she didn't know if she would because of it conflicting with her tour schedule like the games conflicting with the tour schedule but it would be cool to see her there but then I've got I don't know if you picked up on this there was a comment made um by I want to say it was this I think it was Mia the stepsister half sister sorry why they have to do her like that though why'd they have to put half we know yeah I truly don't remember but I was kind of confused because something was said in regards to she's doing what her mom trained her to do using celebrities did you catch that no yes so and I was like wait what like using her position for celebrities or something like that and And I was like, time the fuck out? I was very confused.
I was like, wait, wait, wait. And then they pulled up the, they pulled up things that the dad was like, when I was going through the stuff, or when we were going through the stuff, we found checks from celebrities.
We found all this stuff that was like being given to her because of the whole story of her being so sickly that her mom was portraying.

So.

I somehow missed that.

You have to go back.

It was like towards.

I think it was like before they got to the garage, like before they zoomed into the garage. I'm pretty sure it was right there.
But I was. I caught it was like before they got to the garage like before they zoomed into the garage I'm pretty sure it was right there but I was I caught it and I was like I wonder if they're gonna elaborate on that at all and then they didn't and I was like I wonder if it's gonna be talked about through the rest of the episode like I just it didn't really see that furthers now that you say thatthers my whole, like, the sister is probably envious of the attention.

And, I mean, that's how I feel.

And then the parents, I don't know, because that doesn't sit right with me.

Why would you say something like that?

Especially, why would you say it on camera?

Well, I think the way that it came out of the sister's mouth almost sounded like she was trying to provide a defense.

Because they were asking the family, like, what do you think about her going to this game? And then something got brought up about like some like celebrities or something. And that's when she was like, she's just doing what her mom trained her to do.
No, see, but still, that's not that's not a comment. That's not the first thought that I would have that would would have came to me.
If it, I don't know, that rubs me the wrong way.

You gotta, you gotta go back and watch it because I was like, huh, interesting.

Cause I, I do wonder, like, I don't think, you know, she was in jail for what?

She served eight years.

I think it was eight and a half.

You can't tell me that you did all the healing you need to do from what your mom did to you

in eight, eight and a half years in jail. So I do wonder how many things she carried from there.
I definitely, I think that she could have done some healing. I think she did.
I do believe that she has taken full responsibility for her role. Yeah.
But no, I mean, she was, she was, if you're only in prison for eight and a half years, but you suffered for, I mean, when did she, well, how old was she when she committed the crime? 16? Something like that. I mean, so it's going to take you.
I would say double the time because you don't have like feeling is not linear so it would take her at least 16 years to heal um probably more so no she didn't do all the healing in prison also we know that the resources in prison to heal are not right like everyone wants to cry that there's there's resources and rehabilitation and all of that but we all know that that's not true like they Like, they want it, but they don't ever actually, they don't always actually do it.

Correct.

And I, there was multiple times that her decision making was like, something was said about her decision making, including in the preview for next week. and I'm so curious like why that keeps being said because if we're talking about

you know obviously the the decision for her mom to be killed, obviously terrible decision. But what decisions has she actually been able to make since she was locked up since the rest of the time? Minus because they said it in reference to her getting married in prison.
The dad said I wanted that to be her her decision. And then the attorney brought up decision making again.
And he said, well, now it's not just you guys like trying to help her. She also has somebody on that end that gives their opinion as well.
So she's truly never been able to make the only decision that she's been able to make on her own is getting married to Ryan. And I'm assuming killing her mom.
But even that was with somebody else.

That's true. We'll see you next time.
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Because Audible knows there's no greater thrill than the one that speaks to you discover what lies beyond the edge of your seat start your free 30-day trial at audible.com slash wondery us that's audible.com slash wondery us so to be fair i mean she really hasn't and i do think that she's at least a little bit stunted in terms of maturity and decision making so she is making up for i think the stepmom made a comment that you mentioned earlier like she's making decisions like younger decisions but she's also trying to fit all of this freedom into one you know small time frame i i think that being tied into a relationship, let alone a marriage immediately following an almost 10 year prison sentence sounds like a fucking nightmare. Like that sounds especially Ryan.
It sounds like a, and I hate to say this, like I'm fucking married. Right.
Like, and I don't look at my marriage like this, but you have expectations to uphold as a freaking wife, as a married married person it's not freedom right like people seeking freedom I would say tend to not get married and tend to not get into serious relationships until probably later on in life because they want that freedom they don't want to be tied to anything they don't want to be tied down so I was I never understood when it came out that she got married. I was so confused.
I was like, what in the hell is going on? I think this is also a conversation of when it sounds like a good idea when she's in prison, right? Because she's in prison. She's not fully understanding that she won't be able to like, let's be fucking honest, right? Like when I got divorced, I wanted to have sex.
I wanted to be able to sleep with whoever I wanted. I wanted to be able to do whatever I wanted.
Right. Like I felt liberated.
So coming out of prison, you would think, and I'm not saying my marriage was a prison, but you know, she should be able to do whatever she wants, but now she has expectations within the marriage itself. Um, and I know Alex Cooper just did an interview on call her daddy talking about she, you know, her husband that she got married to now wanted to build with her and have a life with her and get married and do all the things and she felt like her independence was threatened and that's how I feel right like I'm scared to actually commit to Elijah in that way because it makes me nervous about my independence and my freedom and you know right now I can say you know truly if I wanted I don't care how you feel about this.
I'm doing it anyway, where if you're married, I don't feel like you have that same freedom. So I do think in a way she went from her mom, which was a prison, actual prison.
And now she's with this really weird cringe guy. I, I, I want to hear your thoughts about the preview for next week because it like jumped so quickly.
Like it jumped so fast to a whole other dude, like a whole other dude. She's not happy, thinks she'd be happier somewhere else.
Like it seems like a lot of time passed, but I'm wondering how much time actually passed. I don't think there was a whole lot of time that actually passed, right? Like we're in June.
She got out in December. Oh, shit.
You're right. The end of December at that.
So really, she got out around Christmas time. So she's had five months and we're in the beginning of June.
So she's had January, February, March, April, May, five months. Whoa.
So it couldn't have been that long. Um, you know, between realizing, okay, you're married.
And then I just, I wish big sister, kale wishes that she would have. And obviously not my best advice, but just coming from experience, I wish that she would have not married Ryan.
And if she wanted to pursue the relationship and have a relationship with him, also, if she wanted to test the waters with her ex, what's his name, Ken? I think so. Yeah.
If she didn't marry Ryan, it wouldn't have been as big of a deal because she would be able to kind of play the field. And if she wanted to be a little player, she could, if she didn't commit to anyone, right? Like she wouldn't have had that commitment.
I'm scared for her finances because now that they were married, anything that she acquired while they were married, is Ryan going to get half? Uh, probably. And I don't like that for her.
She's gone through entirely too much in her fucking life to give half of her finances over to this guy who saw an opportunity well so i have two things one the first one being with ryan in the marriage who do we think that he pressured the marriage i mean regardless of him pressuring or her pressuring or whatever, she was in prison to me. Yeah, for sure.
I was genuinely curious on your opinion on that because. Here's the thing.
Like, you know, I talked to someone in prison for six months and we were telling each other we loved each other. Right.
Like in prison, it's all fucking hunky dory. Right.
At the end of that six months, I was over it. So I just don't under like, I guess I can't understand that.
How long were they had, had they been talking in prison? And like, what was that? Like, what was the situation for them to get married? I guess. Yeah, you're right.
Like, who brought it up? I just want to know because she's clearly impressionable, right? And like, you're the same, like, you're the same thing. There was a point in your life where if someone was like, will you marry me? You would have been like, fuck yeah, sure.
1000%. That's why it's so easy for me to say all of these things, because I've already been,

not that I've been through prison and I didn't kill Susie, but I feel like in terms of like decision-making and like the attention and, and, and all of that, I feel like it's, I'm speaking from experience. I have been that way.
I'm easily, I mean, you even said it earlier on a different meeting today was like, you're easily baited and I am. Yeah.
I it's, it's, I'm intrigued to see what happens with that. And then also, did you, I want to know the backstory on Ken, the ex, because did you see the dad say he was pointing at someone and he said, if she gets back with Ken, it's your fault.
no also an ex when was while they were in prison I don't know I I don't know but I could have sworn from what I saw and again I don't believe everything I see in media but I could have sworn that when this news broke online which I don't think was that long ago it was where he was referred to as an ex. And clearly had to be an ex.
Because Ryan knew about him. Because in the preview he said.
Oh just go back with Ryan or something. Or go back with Ken.
You're already probably talking to him anyway. And then she started bawling her eyes out.
So. I wonder where he fell.
I guess it had to have been in prison right i mean i would assume so unless this was like an xx from prior to the murder hmm i'm i don't know i'm very intrigued i will say on lifetime's end i really enjoyed the like the filming of it i think lifetime did a fantastic job covering all of this and getting all the stuff. I think this is definitely groundbreaking on their end because who else has ever done anything like this? No, I mean, this would have been a really good idea to do to Casey Anthony.
That's what I was just about to say. Like, nobody ever thought about it, right? Like, I don't know if it's because she got to go to go right back into society really I mean I don't know if they like hit her for a while but even if they would have done a show or something I wonder how that would have been but I think it was a little different because she's a baby killer yeah I I am intrigued it kept my attention definitely going to keep watching because I just need to know like what is going on I also wonder how many episodes are in this season eight ten well that's a really good question that's a really good question I'll be curious if this happens over the course of like eight episodes that's a wild ride for five months that's why I said like what in the I'm so I'm so just like, I know people move fast, but damn.
And she did say like, she doesn't, doesn't have much of a sex life to speak of. And that's why, again, like, why are you getting married in prison? You're already committing to a dick you've never experienced.
I just. Like, why would you do that? They definitely didn't have conjugal visits in Gypsy Rose's prison.

Yeah, no.

Because he wouldn't have...

I don't think he would have...

I don't know what he would have done.

But if they were having conjugal visits, he didn't need to come off like the perv that he came off like.

He definitely came off as a perv.

100%.

Yeah, it's not looking good for Ryan. I would really appreciate him like being gone probably by like next episode i could do without him she's off the show he's fired imagine i mean one can hope that i'm very curious to see what other people's thoughts are on him because i didn't like him i didn't like him from the moment he was on camera like he's hovering around while everyone else is doing stuff i already don't like you like you should be so pumped i also just i wanted to circle back there if her parents house was so far away from where she was in prison at like 13 hours or something why the fuck was he at the parents house before picking her up filming okay but why didn't the family go to her maybe they don't have a house who like maybe ryan and gypsy didn't have a house well where the fuck was he living then his car maybe an apartment but so what why can't they go to an apartment maybe it's not big enough i don't know like it just it just feels weird like there's something off about everybody involved like i just i feel like this is like an intention like i don't know i'm i'm intrigued i also want to see how many people think that the family think like you do like about the family.
I also, well, because I have a friend, right. Who I told the story, right.
Like he was this, this friend of mine was, we were cool. Um, we, we were friends, but we weren't best friends until I got on 16 and pregnant.
And now all of a sudden you want to meet up with me. You want to do this.
You want to, you know, you're, you're coming to hang out. You're driving two hours to hang out with me.
And it was, it just in hindsight, I'm like, wow, like we never hung out outside of school until I got on a show. And it wasn't until we fell out that I realized, oh my God, you,

we never hung out before I got on the show.

We were cool.

We were friends in school, but there's school friends and then there's outside friends.

You know what I mean?

Like there's, so I do think that it's a little weird. I've never understood in your situation how anybody could ever come into that and actually be like, oh my God, I want to get on this show.
Like with Kale. I've never, and that's no knocking.'m not knocking anybody I'm just saying like I would rather I don't even like take 27 pills at one time than ever film ever again I it's weird because I had friends that were eager to film at first until they understood the process.
And then also they got their attention and kind of were like over it. They didn't make it a point to keep asking or like, yeah, once they got kind of got a taste of it, they weren't like eager as eager to do it.
Like it didn't, it wasn't as big as a deal. It wasn't as big of a deal as they thought it would be.
And then you had friends that were absolutely obsessed with it. Oh yeah.
I had certain friends, like, like the one that I just described, for example, if they mentioned filming, this person would come under any circumstances. I remember specifically, I had a friend from high school.
Um, I love her, her and her family did so much for me. And she, she was like, Kale, I like, I'm sorry, but like, I cannot accommodate your filming schedule.
Like, I cannot do it. I won't do it.
And to the point where they MTV then had to ask for money or offered to pay her so that she would make accommodations in her schedule. But like, I don't blame her.
Like, it's not convenient. It wasn't convenient.
Oh, I remember when that happened to me, too. Did they offer to pay you, too? Oh, yeah.
After like 17 times of me saying, no, I wouldn't film. they thought giving me money was going to make me film.
And I said, still no. Like, you cannot pay me to film this fucking shit.
You also have to pay taxes on that. So absolutely not.
It's not worth it. That's a whole conversation for a different day, but it's not.
That's a whole conversation for an entire life. Yeah.
That that you just I I don't know it's intriguing to see people like it and people don't like I don't you know I mean I'll be I don't know I'll be curious to see if they do a season two of this who sticks around for the filming who doesn't who because also with the distance between Gypsy and her family how do you film like does Gypsy move to

be closer to them and then what does that what does that look like for because is she officially divorced I don't know all I saw all I know I didn't see anything public about that all I saw public was the stuff about uh Ken and then on the previews for next week she said that she told him that she's going to be wanting a divorce.

Not Ken. Ryan.

That's scary. And on the previews for next week, she said that she told him that she's going to be wanting a divorce.
Not Ken. Ryan.
That scares me for her because I just need to know about the finances. I need to know if she had a prenup.
I need to know about all of that. I want to know how much money she was able to make and keep for herself while she was in prison.
I want to know also because are you allowed to make money while you're in prison? That's, I don't know, because I truly don't know. I think that in certain prisons, you're only allowed to have like so much money on your books or something and like only have so much money coming in.
Well, and then you have to, you run the risk of like asking and having like a custodial account or some sort of like joint account could they put it in that or could they withhold your payment until you're out of prison like i wonder how that like did she have anyone negotiating on her behalf i would i would um hope i don't know many companies just for tax purposes that would um not issue payment for that many years like i think maybe like days, you could like 30 to 90 days potentially, but for business accounting, like not having your shit paid by the end of the year is like a horrific, honestly. Kristen and I watched Gypsy Rose life after lockup on lifetime.
We watched through Philo and the episodes air on Mondays. So we'll be curious to follow up about episode two.

And I want to know how many of you guys are watching or plan to watch because this is

fascinating. If you're not watching, start watching now.
Yes. Thank you so much, Kristen,

for collabing on this with me and recapping all of Gypsy Rose's life. Anytime.
Anytime.