From Isaac to Elliott: A Story About Identity and Boundaries

Experience the joy of bonding.

The Disney Baby Playlist offers low-stimulation nursery rhymes, instrumentals, and Disney favorites perfect for tummy time, car rides, and playtime.

Just say, Alexa, play the Disney Baby playlist on Amazon Music.

That's Alexa.

Play the Disney Baby playlist on Amazon Music to listen.

To you, my darling.

To you.

The roses were living the dream.

More champagne for me, people.

Until it all came crashing down.

He got fired by it.

From the director of Meet the Parents.

You're a failure.

Women don't like that.

If you need a shoulder or an inner thigh to lean on.

On August 29th.

I just want the house.

We want everything.

Wow.

Stop.

Yes, go!

And see the roses.

These people.

The roses.

Rated R.

Under 17 Mad Minute Without Parent.

In Theaters Everywhere, August 29th.

Support for this podcast comes from Progressive, America's number one boat insurer.

We've all made mistakes on the water, but there's one mistake you shouldn't make.

Being uninsured.

With Progressive Boat Insurance, you can choose coverage for most mistakes you or other boaters could make, helping you float carefree all season long.

Quote today: Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, number one rating based on boat market share data from ratefilings.com.

Welcome to the shit show.

Things are going to get weird.

It's your fae villain, Kale Lower.

And you're listening to Barely Famous.

Happy Friday, everyone.

Welcome to Barely Famous.

Kristen's sitting with Elliot and myself for this episode.

And she's not on camera, but she will be interviewing us for Elliot's episode.

Happy Pride, everyone.

I'm super excited to sit here with my son, Elliot, and Isaac is going by Elliot now.

We'll talk about why I didn't wear any makeup today because I figured I'd probably cry at some point, and

it's probably best just to go in fresh face.

I'm super excited and also nervous, apprehensive a little bit because obviously this is a very sensitive subject or

maybe should be treated with care.

Um, I have some reservations about what we're discussing today because, obviously, this is my son, and I don't want to ever put a target on his back or put him in a dangerous position.

But with that being said, still want him to live his truth and live authentically and be proud of who he is because we're all proud of him.

Don't cry already.

I love you.

And I'm not crying because I don't want to do this.

I'm just crying because this is a really,

this shows your strength.

And

I'm just really proud of you.

It's a really brave thing to do because not everyone can or wants to or has the safe space to live authentically like themselves.

And so it's just

tears of

pride,

truly,

being proud of you.

And,

you know

i know that we've we've faced a lot of um challenges leading up to this point and um

not that i ever didn't want you to share who you are with the world but i just out of protection wanted to make sure it was the right time in the right place and in the right way because i think a lot of times I have wanted to say things about myself or explain myself or prove everybody wrong in some way.

And my friends will be like Kale just wait like there's a right time and there's a right place and there's a right way to do it and you're gonna regret it if you do it any other way so just sleep on it give it some time and I feel like that's exactly what we're doing today is finally being able to share your story on your terms in your words and not letting other people influence your decision or take away your autonomy and your ability to share your own story.

So it's going to be an emotional episode.

90 seconds in, already crying.

So I'm just proud of you.

And I hope that maybe this will help somebody watching the story, like look at someone that they love.

And maybe they have been homophobic or haven't been supportive of someone,

you know, being gay or part of the queer community.

I really hope that this will challenge them and cause them to self-reflect a little bit and understand that like it doesn't matter who you love at the end of the day, like as long as you're happy and safe, like that is the goal, right?

Like life is hard enough.

I don't,

I don't get it.

And I have just loved you through all of it, through everything.

So that's my little, those are my feelings.

Happy pride, everybody.

I'm very nervous for this episode.

I'm here today to

show you who I am, not who you saw on TV for...

12 years of my life and it's very important to me because I feel like growing up on TV it's hard to show who you really are when a camera is in front of you all the time.

It's almost like you have like a, it's like a TV face, you know?

It's harder to be yourself and to be more comfortable

because it's gonna be everywhere, all over the internet.

It's also

weird because people

will take what's online and

make it their own and not it's not the truth always.

so I'm here today to show who I am going into this.

I was pretty confident I'm definitely ready, but stepping into it, I felt a little nervous, but I think it's important to talk about.

Let's get it going.

This is gonna be emotional.

I have no makeup on because I know I'm gonna cry.

So are you excited?

Are you nervous?

Yeah, I'm

I'm glad it's with the people that it's with because it makes me more comfortable.

There's

Alessandra, myself, Kristen, and Elliot in the room.

We've got a nice little closed production today.

Yes.

Elliot, it was super important for you to set some expectations with the listeners and viewers of this episode.

Do you want to go into a little bit of detail about that?

Yes, I really want to make it clear that this is

for me

and for all the people that say things like,

oh, we always knew, knew, or we,

or,

oh, I bet his dad doesn't like this, like, things like that is not necessary.

And I want it to be clear that this is for me, and

I've built up the courage over time to make it known

and

let me have my moment.

I'm really sick of

people coming up with their own stories and like putting things in their own words and

things coming out on other people's terms about me

because my life isn't entertainment for other people.

My life is my life.

Like I can do what I want with it.

And

for people to take things from my life, like personal stuff,

is

not okay.

It's

if I want to share that, I should share that on my terms.

Agree.

We got to have a phone conversation about what you wanted to talk about in this episode, and something that you shared was that it's really important to you to enforce boundaries within your private life, and you're also trying to do that within your public life now.

Do you want to talk about that a little bit?

Yeah, I think,

well, for me, it's important to have a private life because it's like

if I'm just like all all over the internet all the time and have no social life with people around me, like that's like

what is that, you know?

Like, it's very important to me to have a private life too.

So

I feel like it's important to have boundaries within that.

Even for people that I know personally that know about me being on TV and stuff, like boundaries for them to not

share my personal life with the world and just anybody like fans like don't take

something

that I share with my personal life and put it publicly

but at the same time

I also have to be more cautious of that yeah I think

some of the conversations that you and I have been having lately is that there is a difference between your private life and your public life and you have every right to hold on to certain things to keep them private and to put out whatever it is that you want to put out however i have tried to explain to elliot these last several months is that whatever you share on a private platform unfortunately will also get leaked so your private internet life is not actually a private life right and so um you know i have a private facebook page that i don't add anyone to but i understand that even though those are all people I know in real life and I don't add anyone I don't know, that's still very possible.

I still have to be even careful with that because that can also get out and it has.

And so trying to explain that to Elliot has been a little bit challenging because we feel like we can trust the people in our lives, but I think that it's become very apparent over the last several months, if not a year, that that's not the case.

And so you're trying to find the balance of what you want to share because just because you grew up on TV doesn't mean that you necessarily want to put all your business out there like I do.

And I don't want anyone to ever think that I am teaching you to put all your business out there.

It's like,

whatever you choose for yourself should be respected by, you know, the listeners, the viewers.

And I think that there is a world where people can love you for putting out what you want to put out and not necessarily putting all of it out.

People can love you and not expect you to sell your soul to social media.

Right.

And I agree with that.

Kayla, you said something really interesting that you want to put

all of your stuff out there.

Do you feel like that's actually the case, or do you feel like you have to before someone else does?

I do feel like for my specific situation, that I have to put all my business out there, and I have to go to extra lengths to film certain things before it gets out by other people.

And

I don't want my son to live in a world where that's the case, but I do understand that that is the case.

We are in a very unique situation where

we,

I mean, just to use my own life as an example, right?

Like, it's usually because if I don't, someone else will.

It's sort of like my pregnancies.

All my pregnancies have been leaked.

So for you,

I think there's a way to do it where it's private, but it's not a secret.

Right.

Like you want to have some sense of control.

And to put it out before someone else does, that's your control.

Agreed.

And for you, that's what I would hope is that, but people will respect it.

And I think so often.

Yeah, just having boundaries surrounding it.

But boundaries are for us, not for other people.

And that just because we put them and say these are our boundaries doesn't mean that they're going to follow them.

And so that's sort of what I've been trying to explain to you is like the boundaries are not for other people.

They're for you.

Right.

And that's hard.

Y'all know I love talking about O Positive because O Positive is a women's health company.

They offer a wide range of symptom targeting supplements that support women at every stage of life, from their first period to well beyond their last.

I have my period right now and I'm perfect for these products.

They have their best-selling women's health products at Target and Amazon and Eurovaginal Probiotics is one of the top five supplements on Amazon.

They have multiple number one products in Target for intimate care, PMS, and menopause categories.

And I cannot stress to you enough how important Euro is.

It's a probiotic blend that's specifically formulated to target vaginal health.

It helps balance healthy vaginal pH, helps support healthy vaginal smell, maintain healthy vaginal flora.

And we all know that so many factors like sex or tight clothing, sweat from working out, thongs, hormones, periods, all of those things can disrupt vaginal health and lead to an imbalance in pH.

So we don't want to struggle with that anymore.

Eurovaginal probiotic is a blend of four powerful strands of probiotics backed by research showing these strains support healthy vaginal odor, vaginal pH, and flora.

And when taken daily, two capsules per day, Euro delivers noticeable benefits within eight weeks.

So take proactive care of your health and head to opositive.com slash famous or enter code famous at checkout for 25% off your first order.

That's O-P-O-S-I-T-I-V.com slash famous for 25% off.

Okay, so it is so bittersweet that summer is winding down.

But for me, fall means a new routine.

It means getting into the habit of organizing my space and my time.

And that is where Wayfair comes in.

I have been revamping my office specifically.

It's been so helpful on Wayfair.

You can search specifically for the things that you need.

Filter per room, per furniture item.

It's really easy to shop on their website.

And Phil and I talk about it all the time.

She loves to revamp her office, the kids' bedrooms right now.

There's a lot of spaces that she's revamping.

If you're not looking to revamp your office, they have something for everyone.

If you want new linens, you want to refresh your kids' rooms for the upcoming school year.

No matter your space or budget, Wayfair makes it easy to tackle your home goals with endless inspiration for every space and budget.

Free and easy delivery, even on the big stuff.

Find all your must-haves from furniture and decor to appliances and cookware, all in one convenient place.

Get organized, refreshed, and back to routine for way less.

Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home.

That's wafai r.com.

Wayfair, every style, every home.

If you you are a living, breathing woman, then you probably have hormonal issues.

It's impossible not to have them.

There are more than 1,000 disruptors living rent-free in our environment right now, in our food, our water, the air we breathe, the clothes we wear, our skincare, and they all mess with our hormones.

The good news is we don't have to suffer through any of it anymore because now we have hormone harmony.

Hormone harmony contains science-backed herbal extracts called adaptogens.

Now, here's the beauty about adaptogens.

They help the body adapt to any stressors, like chaotic hormonal changes that happen naturally throughout a woman's life.

Happy Mammoth, the company that created Hormone Harmony, is dedicated to making women's lives easier.

And that means using only science-backed ingredients that have been proven to work for women.

They make no compromise when it comes to quality, and it shows.

For a limited time, you can get 15% off your entire first order at happymammoth.com.

Just use the code HARMONY at checkout.

Every Monday and Wednesday night, it's true crime on TV1.

Love, betrayal, murder, fatal attraction, all new, every Monday night at nine.

Then Wednesday night at nine.

Loyal, ride or die, fad girls.

It's love to die for with all new episodes of For My Man.

Twisted Love, Twisted Endings, Desire, Deception, Betrayal.

True Crime.

With Fatal Attraction and For My Man, every Monday and Wednesday night on TV1.

I have a question for you.

Do you...

Since when are you the host of this?

Do you think that it's a little too late to set boundaries for yourself?

Sometimes.

Yeah.

Sometimes I think that I've set the tone and there would be so much work to undo

and so much reworking and rebranding and re-everything to set boundaries now.

Like I literally talk about shitting myself on the podcast.

Like there are no boundaries in Kill Outworld.

So

if anything, maybe it will help you learn what to do and what not to do.

And you can understand how much are you willing to share and set that tone right away, set the bar right where you want it.

And so for me, it's like I've already shared so, so, so, so, so much.

When I scale back, people think, oh, she's keeping secrets.

But really, it's, I want to try to maintain some sense of like normalcy or privacy.

Do you think though that people will think you're keeping secrets no matter what?

Yeah, they think I lie.

They think I'm keeping secrets.

And that's like, you can't help people's perception but that will happen to you too so you have to be careful and have to be sort of methodic on how you want to approach everything

elliot do you feel like watching your mom go through this at what point do you feel like you started paying attention to the things that she goes through specifically on social media take the tv out of it and like the filming aspect but at what point do you feel like you started paying attention and deciding for yourself when you decided to go on social media i want to operate this way i don't want to operate that way maybe Maybe in your personal life, you talked about the boundaries that you have for the people around you.

When did you decide to start having those and like implementing them?

I started noticing

things

like with you and started learning from you and what you've gone through and what you post and what's on the internet of you

somewhat recently, like maybe a bit over a year ago.

I noticed

just things of that nature and

it helps me build a strong sense of what to do in certain situations.

I think that it has helped me a lot seeing through your eyes how you do things.

It helps me do it better.

You know what I mean?

Well, I think there's a difference between like an influencer, a content creator, and then someone like me who literally shares everything.

And I think that you've watched and you've seen rumors about me that you know are not true.

Yeah.

And so

you kind of get to look at the bigger picture and decide what you want for yourself when people are not deciding what they want for you and taking it and running.

For when you decided to start having your boundaries within your personal life, at what point do you feel like you gained the confidence to start doing that and implement those?

And was it because of things that you've watched or was it like you were like, I need this for myself?

I decided for myself to set boundaries more recently.

When you say set boundaries, what does that mean for you?

Like when, because I think that we need to make that very clear, what are your boundaries?

Like, are you saying that you're not going to talk about your personal life?

Are you are you saying that you'll speak on things when you want, that you really don't want to put your personal life out there?

Like, what does the, what are the boundaries to you?

Boundaries to me are

I'm going to share what I want to share when I want to share it.

You know, I'm not going to share everything on the internet, but I'm also not gonna share nothing on the internet.

So I think it just needs to be a sense of respect.

Like

you don't want people commenting saying

what you should share, what you shouldn't share, what they think of you.

You don't want any of that.

Yeah, and I also don't like when people of my personal life go into those comment sections and put things out there that I did not share myself.

And I've seen things like that before.

I had had words with two people specifically who did not come to me and they re-shared stuff about you that really pissed me off i blocked them i told them don't ever talk to me again because at the point that you and i did not share them and you did not share them what the fuck made you think that that was okay for you to reshare that without talking to me and confirming with me it did not come from either one of us right I think those are fair boundaries and those what's understood should not have to be explained but for some reason we're sitting here and like explaining and I think the cool thing about Patreon like the people who are on this patreon it's real they are respectful and they have been patient and they know that you're going to share and I'm going to share what we want to share and they're the ones who are supporting you and they're the ones who um are going to support you whether you decide to share what's in your personal life or you don't they're just here to support you and i love that about this community specifically because they're not pressuring you i i see their comments i read what they have to say.

I know, I see their feedback, and they're not, they don't expect you to just share everything.

And I think that's what, that's the community that we want to continue to build off of.

And obviously, we know that the internet comes with trolls, and the internet comes with people who are hateful and they want to, they prey on downfalls.

But I think for this community itself, like we're not really speaking to you guys, we're sort of speaking to everybody else who is not being respectful of a minor, right?

Like, at the end of the day, you are a minor.

And

for people to go on social media and talk about your sexuality or to talk about, you know, people in your personal life, your friends on their social media is, to me, crazy because you are a minor and your friends are minors.

It's also hard because people who aren't in the public eye don't understand.

So it's hard for us to

explain to them like boundaries and stuff and have them

understand them.

You know, like...

So some will argue, then why be online at all?

Yeah, exactly.

Well, I think it's a catch-22, which is what we were talking about before we started rolling.

It's like, it is a catch-22 because we have created a safe space within this community on Patreon and most of the Kale Lowry universe, we'll call it.

We've created a safe space, but there are obviously going to be trolls that infiltrate that somehow.

It's a catch-22 for you, too, because you're in a weird position where you're like a pseudo-Nepo baby and you have the ability to like make money on social media at 15 years old and you have the ability to share your passions for, you know, like ASL and pride and like just be a regular kid on social media because so many regular kids have social media, but then what is the balance?

Like, yeah.

And I think it's just trying to figure out what that balance is,

you know, in this unique position that you're in.

And that's the only thing I've ever wanted, really.

I really want a balance of my personal and public life.

And it's hard to do that when you can't really, you can't go back, you know?

Yeah.

And that's a fair ask, I feel.

It's very, it's valid you speaking of catch 22's kale as his mom but also as a public figure yourself this entire episode but also elliot's life on tv social media what is this like for you to like know it but then also have a child that wants to go through it so you're looking at it as a parent what is this like for you it's been a roller coaster because obviously I'm so proud of him.

I'm so proud of you.

And I want people to see you and like know you and feel your energy and like you're so passionate about things that people I think overlook and so on one hand I like want you to do all the things right like you have a real opportunity to impact people's lives in a really

important way but on the other side of it like I understand what comes with that and I just want to protect you from all of those things and it's hard because I don't and I'm speaking for the entire cast and I hope they don't get mad at me for saying this, but I truly don't think that any of us understood the implications and impact of what we would have on our children.

And at the end of the day, like

we weren't thinking that we were exploiting our children for myself, I signed up for this show out of pure desperation and needing money and needing to figure out a way out of the situation that I was in.

I don't think that I ever thought about where we would be in 15 years.

I thought it was right now, I'm going to get paid, I'm going to figure this out, and I'll get my life together for my son.

And so

I have a hard time now because

I know the benefits of social media.

I understand the benefits of being a public figure, the opportunities that can come from it, but I also know where that leaves us mentally sometimes.

It can be draining.

It could be so many good things, but it can be so many bad things.

And so, as your mom, I want to protect you.

And I want you, I want to be able to say, okay, that's great, but don't do this, this, and this.

But I also understand as a human being that sometimes we have to learn the fucking hard way.

We got to do it ourselves to learn that lesson.

And sometimes it's the same lesson over and over again until you fucking get it.

And so

I don't know.

It's, it's a really weird place to be because I know so many people that I've talked to on Barely Famous that have been like, I would never let my child be a part of this industry or my child's never getting social media.

Or I understand all sides of it.

And I think that no one situation is alike necessarily.

But I know for you, there's a place for you to be passionate about ASL online.

And there's a passion, there's a place for you to be passionate about your vinyl collection.

And there's, you know, room for you to do all the things that you want to do on social media.

And there's a balance.

But I think that we, we do really need people to find it.

Yeah.

To find your balance, but also for people to respect that.

Like you are a child.

So I say all that to say that it's been a really hard

place for me to be in as a parent and a public figure at the same time for you.

Do you guys struggle with bloating or discomfort after your morning coffee?

I always have, but after drinking everyday dose consistently, my bloating has reduced and my face is less puffy, as you guys can see.

And supplement stacks are expensive and hard to keep up with, but everyday dose is affordable and covers all the bases in a cup of coffee.

It takes 30 seconds to make and you get coffee plus a bunch of supplements with vitamins, minerals, and amino acids, which is amazing.

Everyday dose is coffee plus benefits.

It combines 100% Arabica coffee with powerful ingredients like lion's mane and chaga, collagen protein, and nootropics to fuel your brain, boost your focus, and give you clean, sustained energy all day long.

There's no crash, no jitters, just clean, sustained energy, which is exactly what I need with seven kids.

There are two products: Coffee Plus and Coffee Plus Bold.

Coffee Plus is a mild roast, light and smooth, and then Coffee Plus Bold is a rich blend of medium roast, 100% Arabica coffee, robust and full-bodied yet smooth.

It just has that extra boost of energy.

You guys can get 45% off your first subscription order of 30 servings of Coffee Plus or Bold Plus.

You'll receive a starter kit with over $100 in free gifts, including a rechargeable frother and gunmetal serving spoon, by going to everydaydose.com/slash famous or entering famous at checkout.

You also get free gifts throughout the year.

That's everydaydose.com/slash famous for 45% off your first order.

Hi, I'm William Googe, a Vuri Collaborate and professional ultra runner from the UK.

I love to tackle endurance runs around the world, including a 55-day, 3,064-mile run across the US.

So I know a thing or two about performance wear.

My go-to daily short is the core short from Viewery.

It's perfect for my daily run in the gym, strength training, or even when I'm taking a day off, relaxing, doing some stretching, and recovering the best way I can.

Check them out by visiting viewery.com/slash William.

That's vuori.com slash William, where new customers can receive 20% off their first order, plus enjoy free shipping in the US on orders over $75 and free returns.

Excluding supply, visit visit the website for full terms and conditions.

When it's this hot, you need a snack that's cool, fun, and delicious, like Maimochi ice cream.

Maimochi is little scoops of ice cream and flavors like strawberry, mango, and cookies and cream wrapped in soft dough.

It's creamy on the inside and chewy on the outside, like a sweet ice cream dumpling.

Mai Mochi is gluten-free and only 70 calories apiece.

The perfect guilt-free snack.

This summer, grab a purple box of Maimochi ice cream and feel joyfully chill with the coolest treat around.

Back to school season means new schedules, supplies, and carpool rides.

It's a lot.

Ollie helps you prioritize your wellness in the chaos of getting the kids back to class.

How about a daily multi to support your immune system?

There's one for mom and dad.

Need something to help you keep your cool when nothing goes as planned?

Grab goodbye stress.

Looking for digestive and immune system support?

Probiotic Mango does both.

And when it feels impossible to shut it all down, Ollie Sleep helps you get the rest you deserve.

Choose the number one gummy supplement brand this school year.

Shop Ollie.com or retailers nationwide.

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.

This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

To go back on what you said about not thinking about,

you know, what it would be like in 15 years when when you were a teenager, my age, being on the show or trying to get on the show.

I can also see that it's not something that someone your age at the time would think about.

Social media wasn't out there the same way it is now.

So if I was 16 and pregnant today,

it would be different.

I would have a, I think, I would like to think that I would look at it from a different perspective because I could see all the apps, all the internet, all the trolls, all the forums, all the things.

Back then, Instagram came out after you were born, or I got on Instagram after you were born.

So it was very different.

And so I think that also played a part.

Do you ever feel resentment because I had us on TV your whole life?

Like, do you get upset with me or angry with me ever?

No, I.

It's okay if you have, but no, I don't.

I really, I really don't.

I might feel

that we were on it for so long, but the same time,

I

try my best to look at the positives, and we wouldn't be right here in this moment if it wasn't for everything you've done, you know.

And

I just couldn't see it another way.

And I'm really grateful for you.

You're like the only person that I ever

the only person I need.

We stopped rolling.

You asked me if it was important for you to share this and what was it?

It was about taking pictures with people.

When people come up to us in public, I don't mind.

I'm an adult.

I have, you know, I can make my own decisions.

But we have come across times where people will be like, Isaac, get in it, or they'll physically grab him.

Oh, yeah.

Specifically, the jelly roll concert in Philly.

That lady, yeah, physically grabbed him to be in the picture.

That's not okay.

And um just respectfully you know keep in mind he is a child and he's a minor and and

he's probably gonna say no regardless he doesn't like to be in pictures

I think over time

like at some point

but not as a child later in life I think like at some point I'll be okay with it but now I love talking to people and just come up to me don't touch him yeah don't touch me don't touch me but with pictures come up to me and ask but

where i am now i probably will say no well i think it's hard too because i mean we don't know where these pictures are going we don't get to see them if they're on somebody else's phone we don't get to see them so it's like we don't know where they're going and like and you can't ask i have three chins sometimes so i don't want if i have it's an ugly angle i don't want it to get posted but people get so excited and i know i get it like i do but he's a child you know they go through puberty they're going through their own little you know identity things and trying to figure out who they are they don't want pictures like that on the internet truly with the rise of ai that can do anything with any image that's terrifying and that's another that's another thing and so we're we're not saying this to be mean and say like we're not thankful for you guys because i think what you're saying is like you love to talk to people i love it but the pictures is it's hard it's ai is so powerful but also so scary it is you know we're not saying it to be rude or not thankful for you guys.

It's just, you know, keep in mind peace and minor.

Yeah.

Have a conversation, keep spatial awareness.

And that goes for not even just you, not even just your mom, anybody in general.

You see somebody that you are absolutely loving, their content or their media presence or an actor, an actress, it does not matter.

Yeah.

Just don't grab anyone.

Don't grab an adult.

Don't grab an elderly individual.

Don't grab children.

Don't grab a pregnant belly.

Don't grab anything.

Yeah.

Don't do it.

Not even animals.

Let's not touch animals, you know?

Like, we'll just don't do it.

Not touching.

Agreed.

Love that.

Yeah.

Also,

it does make me uncomfortable when people take pictures from afar.

I prefer if you would come up to me.

We know you're excited.

Yeah.

But he's still a human being.

Yeah.

But the way I think of it, like, I feel you.

Like, I understand.

Like, if I were to freaking come across Post Malone in public,

like, you know?

Yeah.

Like, I would feel the same way.

But you have to think, like, we are still human.

We still have feelings.

We're not robots.

So

just come up to us, have a conversation, and I'm, I'm comfortable.

I'm cool.

Elliot, we're obviously referencing you as Elliot.

Yeah.

As, and that's what you would like to be called moving forward.

And that's what we all call you in your personal life.

Can you share with us why you go by Elliot now?

I started going by Elliot because at some point I wasn't happy with my first name.

I don't know.

Like, I just, not because

I don't, I don't know.

Like, it just doesn't feel like me or in some way.

Can I share why I

thought you were not doing Isaac?

Huh.

To build a separation between your life on Teen Mom and who you are today.

Yeah.

No, that's part of it.

Okay.

Yeah.

That's why I thought that we, I mean, and I don't really remember the conversation.

I just know that like Elliot started coming home and like all his teachers.

So you started going to a new high school.

It wasn't the high school that you like, would have gone to.

Um, the paperwork all said Elliot, like, the teachers were writing Elliot, and it was like comments about Elliot.

And I was like, wait a minute, are we going by Elliot now?

Yeah, and it's so funny because it's hard once you know somebody has a certain name, right?

Like,

especially if it's family, my childhood people, all you know, my mom's whole side of my family, even my dad's side of the family calls me Kaylin.

Like, it will never be Kale.

Yeah,

I got the nickname Kale when I was in eighth grade, and it's stuck ever since.

So for me, I don't, if you call me Kalin, you must have known me from my childhood.

Yeah.

So for you,

everyone's always called you Isaac.

So now retraining our brains to call you Elliot, obviously we're getting used to it.

But Creed

started

recently, he's four and he started calling you Elliot.

And it's so funny.

He's like, who, my brother, Elliot?

And I'm like, first of all,

how easy was that for him?

But like, I think

I can appreciate the separation between

who you were and who you are today.

I think that that is cool for you to recognize.

It's cool for you to sort of decide what makes you comfortable.

Yeah.

And that was your decision.

So when you go to your dad's house, are they calling you Elliot too or no?

No.

I don't expect that from them.

Okay.

I didn't expect it from you either.

Like, I didn't think like, oh, you have to call me Elliot.

I don't take any other name, but like, I would have been fine if you kept calling me Isaac because I know that

like it would be hard for that transition would have been hard and it was a bit

because

I mean called me by my first name my whole life you know yeah I think the separation from my personal and private life or who I was on TV from who I am now that's like the main reason but at some point i don't know i just realized like i like my middle name better you know fair like

fair.

I couldn't think of a I wanted your first name to be Elliot, but I couldn't think of a middle name at that time.

If I could go back, I'd name you Elliot Ace.

I like that, yeah, that would be what I would have named you.

I like that because I didn't

Isaac is cool.

Does it bother you

when people that you've told you want to be called Elliot to don't do that?

Oh, yeah, yeah, a little bit.

I mean, like, I can't force you to call me by my middle name, but it does bother me when it's kind of like, well, I mean,

it doesn't bother me that much,

but it like, and it's not that big of a deal, but it also kind of does feel like

a boundary thing.

I get that.

A little bit, you know, when people call me Kaylin today, obviously there's, you can call me that,

but Kristen can call me whatever she wants.

But like, when certain people refer to me as Kaylin, I'm like, you don't have a right to call me that.

Like it's weird.

It's so weird.

That's not who I am.

It is, but it's not, I get it.

I get what you're saying.

It also makes me more comfortable around you if you call me by my middle name, you know?

Like if somebody at school called me Isaac, I'm like, hey, like, you know?

You don't know me.

Yeah, you don't know me.

Like,

you know?

Unless it's someone that knew me before I started going by that, then it's fine, you know?

Relatable.

If you were calling me Isaac, that's fine.

Or if it was like

my two best friends from school, from

my old school,

I would have been fine.

I'm fine with that.

Right.

You know?

No, that makes sense to me.

When you say to someone, you know, my name's Elliot, and they've known you as Isaac and they actively just choose not to use Elliot, do you view it as disrespect?

I think I would.

A little bit, yeah.

But unless I knew them before I started going by that.

But at the same time,

if everyone around me, or if everyone around them is calling me Elliot,

you know, like it's kind of like

it's hard.

Sometimes it can be hard to like listen for two names, you know?

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

Men today face immense pressure to perform, to provide, to keep it all together.

So it's no wonder that 6 million men in the U.S.

suffer from depression every single year and it's often undiagnosed.

We all know that it is okay to struggle.

Real strength comes from opening up about what you're carrying and doing something about it so you can be your best self for everyone and everything in your life and if you're a man and you're feeling the weight of the world talk to someone it sounds easy but i can promise you that with better help it is anyone a friend a loved one a therapist i started therapy at one of my darkest times in 2019 and i've been going ever since with only small breaks in between and i promise you that better help is a great option they have over 35 000 therapists and better help is the world's largest

and better help is the world's largest online therapy platform having served over 5 million people globally.

It works.

And the way it works is through an app and it works with an app store rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client reviews.

I can't stress to you guys how much enough, I cannot stress to you guys enough how important it is to start with BetterHelp.

It's super convenient.

You can join a session with the therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life.

You don't have to worry about getting in the car and driving to your appointment and then sitting in traffic on the way back.

You can fit it into your schedule wherever you see fit.

As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can give you access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise.

Talk it out with BetterHelp.

My listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash barely.

That's betterhelphelp.com slash barely.

That's betterhelp.com slash barely.

When it comes to fitness, what's real?

How about when it really, truly fits your life?

That's how anytime fitness sees it.

Because our coaches see you.

It's how they build personal plans that work wherever you are and focus on everything that matters from fitness to nutrition to recovery.

All so you can push yourself further than ever or just through the next rep.

It's Total 360 support for a real difference.

That's Anytime Fitness.

That's Real AF.

Visit anytimefitness.com.

Ready to prioritize yourself?

Your skin is a great place to start.

Dime Beauty, founded by a master aesthetician, is more than just a skincare company.

With four skin conscious categories, skincare, beauty, body care, and fragrance, Dime offers simple, spa-worthy products that will help bring your glow back.

Whether you're revitalizing your regimen with nourishing products or building one from scratch, Dime makes it easy.

The Work System, our all-in-one best-selling routine, includes a cleanser of your choice, toner, serums, and moisturizers, taking the guesswork out of skincare for your healthiest, happiest skin yet.

Dime's commitment to clean ingredients and sustainable packaging ensures every product is as gentle on your skin as it is on the planet.

With thousands of glowing five-star reviews and a loyal community, the results speak for themselves.

Revive your skin and give yourself the routine refresh you deserve by visiting dimebeautyco.com.

That's dimebeautyco.com.

Your best skin awaits.

The Care Credit credit card lets me pay over time for just about anything my dog needs, from food to vet care.

But but what if, hypothetically speaking, I got a bird?

No, a horse.

Well, I've got good news for my hypothetical self.

CareCredit is accepted at more than 270,000 locations and works for, wait for it, all animals.

And the even better part is it also works for me.

I can use it for spa trips, dental treatments, and more.

Care Credit offers flexible financing for all my hypothetical animals and hypothetical me.

Visit CareCredit.com to apply and find a location near you, subject to credit approval.

Elliot, what kind of support do young people like yourself need when making the decision to come out?

Do you even feel like it's necessary to actually come out?

What are your thoughts around that?

I don't think it's necessary to come out.

I mean, I'm doing it for me.

So you can do what you want.

Like, if you feel it's necessary to come out, then do it.

But if you don't, then just be yourself, you know, like you don't have to prove anything to anyone.

So just be who you are and be true to yourself.

At the end of the day, it's for you.

There's so many things I want to say.

There's specifically to this.

Nobody wakes up and tells their family they're straight.

Literally, nobody.

Yeah.

The other thing is

I

the being born gay versus choosing to be gay.

Are you choosing to be straight?

Because last time I checked, when you are straight, you just wake up and you're straight.

So, why would it be different for someone who's nobody's choosing to put themselves in a place where they're facing adversity and dangerous situations?

Nobody's choosing to put themselves in a position where their family is kicking them out and they're on the streets.

Nobody's choosing that.

And so, I really just cannot encourage you guys enough.

And I'm speaking to the adults who are having children or maybe have family members that are homophobic.

I'm speaking to you guys.

It's like, one, maybe don't have kids if you're not going to love them unconditionally.

That's not a one.

And number two,

your child is not choosing this.

This is something that is.

They're born with.

I believe they're born with.

And so if you don't like what I have to say, I encourage you to

do some research to really look into it and understand like why you just feel like it's wrong.

Like that is the only reason, like you feel like it's not natural, but it is

because if it wasn't, nobody would choose just to be gay, just to be gay.

Nobody would do that

with

the

things that people go through with that, you know.

Like,

you're gonna choose the easy route.

What kind of support do you feel like you've had that other kids do not have and could use?

Like, any, I don't want to say tips, but for parents out there, like, how

best can we support our children who are part of the queer community?

I don't know, there's not much you can say.

Like, just love them unconditionally, be and let them be who they are, and maybe

make a comfortable environment with them,

you know, like make sure that they feel safe and protected and happy and comfortable around you.

I think it's important to make sure that you are

aware of certain things.

like maybe have a conversation with them.

Yeah, I don't know.

There's, I feel like it's easier said than done.

It's easier said than done.

I also think that people are homophobic and don't realize they're homophobic.

They don't understand why they're homophobic.

They just have been taught their whole lives that it's not natural and to be gay or to be part of the queer community.

And I think that they have to understand that first.

And that takes a certain level of self-awareness to even get to that point.

And And so there's a lot of work that needs to be done.

But like I said earlier, I think when you have kids, you have to choose to love them unconditionally because you cannot control who they love.

You cannot control what their sexuality is.

And for me, I never gave a fuck.

I, if you came home and told me that you wanted to marry a woman, cool.

You tell me you want to marry a man, cool.

I don't give a fuck because at the end of the day, that part does not affect me or my life.

It only affects you and who you love is who you love.

At the end of the day,

I'm not going to sever a relationship with my child based off of who he loves or doesn't love.

Right.

I'm not going to forfeit a relationship with you because I don't, but I also don't think that way either.

Like, I am also, I love who I love.

I've been with women, I've been with men.

Right.

So,

actually, I do have something.

I think that it's important for parents to, if they're not comfortable or don't know how to approach it, or

don't know how to make their child comfortable.

Immerse yourself in the community.

Go to a pride event or talk to somebody that's gay.

Because sometimes you don't even know someone's gay.

Yeah.

They're just like the rest of us.

Exactly.

I think that there is a stigma surrounding the queer community, the gay community, that is like you're different.

Yeah, but you're really.

Think about it.

Like, you grew up watching me.

I mean,

and people know and love you.

Yeah, exactly.

So the way you

like watch me online, like

love your child.

I don't know.

I also think that there are some people who, it's fine when it's someone else's kid.

Yeah.

It's fine when it's someone else's kid until their kid is part of the queer community.

And again, like I can't put myself there because I don't have those same like thoughts or concerns just like I just never cared.

I think it's just hard because you have to experience it to understand.

like you have to like because some people are born and raised homophobic yeah and they don't it's like implicit like they don't realize yeah and that's not okay but also right and there's no room for their own opinion so like

I think

the first step is just trying to

like

try to build comfort and try to

immerse yourself in the community.

Try to like, you just have to realize that we're not different.

We're just regular people.

How did you know

that I was a safe space for you to be yourself and to be gay?

Like, how did you know that you could trust me or that you could talk to me or tell me?

Or how did you know?

Like, what was it?

Well, don't cry again.

I don't know if it will make you cry, but I mean,

I guess I've just always been comfortable around you.

You've always made me feel comfortable around you.

I've never felt like I couldn't tell you something or

like you just made a good environment for me.

And

like I've always

been able to come to you about things, you know.

But how do you know that?

Just, I don't know.

You just,

I can just

feel like myself around you, you know?

like,

you know,

Father's Day gifting is always the same story for me.

Socks, grill tools, repeat every single year.

But this year, I did want to do better.

I found Quince, and they made buying a thoughtful gift easy.

Quince has all the pieces that dads actually want to wear, like organic cotton silk polos, European linen beach shorts, and comfortable pants that work for everything from weekend hangouts to nice dinners.

And the best part is everything with Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than you'd find at similar brands.

They work directly with top artisans and cut out the middleman.

So, Quince actually gives you luxury pieces without crazy markups.

And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes.

So, if you guys are looking for the perfect Father's Day gift and you don't want to grab something that everyone else gets all the time, check out Quinn's.

I'm actually wearing these hoops right here are by Quince and I love them.

They're everyday, they're staples.

And if you're like me and you just don't know what to get for the father in your life or your husband, this is it.

For the dad who deserves better than basic, Quince has you covered.

Go to quince.com slash famous for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

That's q-u-in-n-ce-e.com slash famous to get free shipping and 365-day returns, quince.com slash famous.

Every idea starts with a problem.

Warby Parker's was simple.

Glasses are too expensive.

So they set out to change that.

By designing glasses in-house and selling directly to customers, they're able to offer prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable.

Warby Parker glasses are made from premium materials like impact-resistant polycarbonate and custom acetate, and they start at just $95, including prescription lenses.

Get glasses made from the good stuff.

Stop by a Warby Parker store near you.

Thanks for selling your car to Carvana.

Here's your check.

Whoa, when did I get here?

What do you mean?

I swear it was just moments ago that I accepted a great offer from Carvana Online.

I must have time traveled to the future.

It was just moments ago.

We do same-day pickup.

Here's your check for that great offer.

It is the future.

It's the present and just the convenience of Carvana.

Sorry to blow your mind.

It's all good.

Happens all the time.

Sell your car the convenient way to Carvana.

Pickup times may vary and fees may apply.

Wild Planet is sustainable seafood the way nature provided it because nothing beats Wild.

Wild is pole and lime-caught, hand-cut, and hand-packed tuna.

It's small fish like sardines and anchovies that are lower on the food chain and help to preserve ocean habitats.

It's less processing and more delicious, clean nutrients, like 33 grams of protein in a serving of wild planet albacore tuna.

What's wild tastes better and is better for the planet, which is why we ask you to go wild.

Wild caught, wild enjoyed, wild planet.

Wild Planet Premium Canned Seafood is available at major retailers nationwide.

I have way too much free time, said no one ever.

Work, appointments, family and friends, life is nonstop.

And trying to find a new place on top of all that, completely overwhelming.

That's where apartments.com comes in.

If you want to make time for the things you love, but you still need to find your next home, apartments.com has tools to make your home search so much easier, and it's all on one site.

With 3D virtual tours to get a peek at a rental listing, online tour scheduling, plus the ability to see the exact unit you're interested in and apply for a place with one click, renters can handle it all on apartments.com.

Whether you're looking for a three-bedroom condo downtown, a two-bedroom duplex in a quiet neighborhood, a cozy studio in a walkable city, or even a single-family home in a cul-de-sac, you can find a place that checks all the right boxes.

So, whichever stage of life you're in, settle down in your perfect home by using apartments.com.

Make your move from the comfort of anywhere and make more time for you.

Join the millions of happy renters and visit apartments.com, the place to find a place.

And what about your brothers?

Did you feel the same way about them?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because I don't think they care.

Yeah.

Although Lux thought you twerked, that meant you were gay.

I remember that.

Do you ever twerk?

No.

Just for the record, Lux, that's for you, babe.

That's for you.

I don't know how to twerk.

I don't think Lincoln ever cared either.

No.

I feel like, yeah, like they just look at me and they're like, oh, that's my brother.

It doesn't matter if he's gay.

It's my brother.

It's not contagious.

Like, I think people are worried too.

Like, oh, like.

A lot of straight guys, especially.

Interesting.

But,

okay, that's interesting.

That's, in my opinion, because people,

it's, there's still a stigma around it.

And it goes against like the nuclear family bullshit that we're all fed from a very, very young age.

And that it's like, uh, like it's wrong if you're gay or it's like

it's a very weird thing, at least coming from me as a straight person, I see it to me.

It's also like it's mostly coming from people that are not comfortable within their own sexuality.

Right.

That perpetuate it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would agree with that.

It's so interesting, though, because I'm like, there are people who don't want their kids around gay people or whatever.

And it's like, but my kids are around, my other sons are around you.

You're gay and they're not.

And they're not affected by it.

They don't care.

If anything, they'll just ask you questions because they don't know.

But it's almost like like

normalizing it for them because they don't think any different of you.

You're just their brother.

Yeah.

And I also think that

just because they're around me doesn't, it's not contagious.

Like you said, like they're not going to turn gay because of me.

They're, if they're gay, they're all, they were born that way.

You know?

Do you feel as though I did anything or your dad did anything in your childhood to make you gay?

Because

absolutely not.

People have said that you weren't around your dad enough or I you know was doing certain things in my parenthood that turned you gay do you feel like any of that is true

no

and like

I mean I have had 50 50 cussy it's 50 50 cussy so been with my mom and my dad equally I think that people confuse like

who they're around like the parent um

they confuse it with like masculinity, you know, like it's not about sexuality.

It's about how masculine slash feminine they are.

So to you, when you look at a man or a woman, what is masculine to you for your generation?

What would you say is masculine?

Or with your generation, have they taken those roles and the stereotypes more out of it than how your mom and I grew up?

Like, is it looked at the same where everything your mom just explained about Elijah?

Do you even identify that as masculine in your generation?

Because you might not.

Yeah.

Okay.

So some of it still bled through to your generation, but some of it is not necessarily identifying this trait as masculine or feminine.

Like if you saw a man

crying, would you say that they're feminine or would you say they're just crying?

Yeah.

Okay, so men crying in our generation, millennials, is not normal.

It should be.

It should be.

And that's why.

And that's why part of this is good for this entire conversation is like how we view masculinity versus femininity.

I don't even think that you can be, like, I don't think anyone is just masculine or just feminine.

And I would, well, I think everyone has

traits and qualities of both.

Yeah.

Well, so your generation is more so deconstructing the gender roles and the stigma surrounding masculine energy or masculine behaviors versus feminine behaviors and things of that nature.

I think that your generation is deconstructing that where, and millennials too, I think millennials are starting to break down.

But for me, like I grew up with the men in my life and the men, my grandfather, my uncles, you wouldn't catch them crying.

You wouldn't catch them talking about their feelings.

You don't catch them, you know.

It's just not healthy, though.

It's not, but we know that now.

Yeah.

But for generations and things before me, it's like that was not something.

That's why, I mean, being gay and being part of the queer community was not talked about.

It was like, don't ask, don't tell.

You don't talk about it.

You just, if you know, you know, and you might want to stay away from them because it might be contagious.

Where like today is like, we're having bigger conversations and raising more awareness around it just being normalized.

Yeah.

So I know this episode was planned out for a while.

And you had had a lot of conversations with mom and things like that.

And then unfortunately, your plans were disrupted by somebody publicly posting some photos that were shared on a private Facebook page from prom.

Do you want to talk about that?

How it made you feel, the impact that took on people around you, and

just take us through what that was like.

You went to prom, you were asked to prom by a junior,

a male,

and

those pictures and videos were leaked.

Yeah,

and then I got home crying, ugly crying.

How were you feeling when you saw that everything was leaked?

I was devastated.

I

also ugly cried before you got home.

It's just, it was very disappointing because, I mean, nobody knew that we were playing this episode, but it's just disappointing.

going back to things being on my terms.

It's like,

even if you thought you knew I was gay already, like

it's disappointing that I couldn't share your own experience, share it on my terms, agreed.

And

the way it happened was just not okay.

It was very,

I don't want to say negative, but it was very like,

you know, at the point that you did not post it yourself or I did not have permission to post it, it wasn't necessary.

Was

just a violation.

it was no it wasn't even about respect it was about the fact that you're a minor and it was a huge violation of just your privacy in general yeah and i think that that was really really heartbreaking yeah um and honestly it's not even about just me anymore it's about the people who are in those pictures it's about the people their safety yeah their safety and that maybe they weren't out yet exactly maybe he wasn't out maybe his family didn't know maybe his friends didn't know and And now you've put them in a dangerous position, both my son and, you know, his date.

You put them in a very dangerous position.

And I think just to have your post go viral or your post get likes or for your post, like for that instant gratification of yourself, you leaked pictures of minors to be able to say that you heard it first or that you had the information first or you knew it.

You called it.

For money.

Not even money.

Because I don't even think anyone got paid.

I mean, I think the TikToks maybe, but reposting pictures

for what?

And that's the problem.

People don't understand that

if I don't share it, it shouldn't be out there.

If you did not share it yourself on your public platform, and that's the catch-22 that we were talking about is like your private internet stuff is not actually private.

It's private, but it's not private.

People will, people in their circle.

That and I've learned that the hard way and I've learned it so many times and I still haven't really learned it is like I want to give people the benefit of the doubt and I want to trust the people around me and I think oh I can just post this on my on my personal Facebook yeah but there are people in your real life circle unfortunately that will want to they will prey on your downfall and they will post it and they will take it and you'll never know you'll know when you'll find out when it's entirely too late you guys were planning the episode before that happened yes

and that was on your terms that was having conversations like what we're having now which i'm very glad that you still wanted to you know, share it this way and have everything out in your own words.

I know you had told me that you went to mom about wanting to post something immediately.

Originally, before this episode that we're recording today came out, he came to me and said that he was ready to come out publicly.

And he wanted to do it on Instagram.

Yeah, I didn't really know how to approach it.

It made me nervous for you to post something on Instagram and then other people to screen record, make videos and make money off of you coming out.

It's exploitative and it's not fair.

And so if you're going to share your story, then you should be able to tell your story in your own words.

I'm not making a dime of profit off of this.

This is going to you.

So you have the right to tell your story, but you should be the one benefiting from your story.

And that was what was important to me for you as your mom.

Part of the reason why I was just saying, like for people to repost and to reshare to be able to have the final

word on who you are and what you're posting and who you love is like, to me, it's just disgusting for everyone out there that thinks that this was done for money.

It's not.

It's just, you know, Elliot felt like it was time to share his story.

And in my opinion, he should be the one that collects any money that comes from it.

It's his story, his words, his terms, everything.

For me, though, the main concern was not about money.

It was about

me sharing my story on my terms

because it's it's important to me and it's also important for me to

hopefully inspire other people and like help other people who are in the same situation or similar situation work through it the best that they can.

And

I also can make rather it be one minute video, it can be an hour, maybe longer, you know?

So

that's also important to me.

I think that to have my moment it's better if it's longer and more in depth yes in depth so after the incident with your information and your private pictures being leaked online you had shared with me that you went back to mom and you wanted to immediately post something yeah

mom shared with me that she

It was a very interesting position.

I would love for you to speak on that, Kale, because you've had a lot of us tell you, sleep on it, don't do that now.

You're going to regret it.

And you hate every bit of it every time.

So what was that?

What was that like for you, for you to be in that position when you have already had the feelings and the experiences of us telling you no?

While you were saying that, I pulled up the conversation between Elliot and myself.

Once all these pictures and things leaked on social media, they just kept coming.

Yeah.

You texted me and you said, I'm not letting this slide, by the way.

I won't wait till Pride weekend.

And I will be posting a video about this because my boundaries are crossed and I won't let it go on anymore.

We have made it very clear to them and they continue to disrespect me.

It was a full circle moment for me because I have been in that place so many times.

And Kristen, Alessandra, other people have said, Kale, just wait, just wait, just wait, just wait.

And I would be so angry and so upset and so heartbroken about whatever it was that I just wanted to speak on it right now.

and that this is where that cliche saying comes in like what's done in the dark will come to light but i literally texted elliot back and i said don't do that you're going to regret it i promise you and any time that i have immediately responded out of you know being emotionally charged anger hurt whatever because i wanted to explain myself and get the last word and for people to see me what for who i am

Everyone it always backfired and it always made things worse.

And you said, in what way will I regret this?

and i said they will not listen to you either way no matter what you do or say you're letting them win if you do that and i don't agree or support you posting the video you said i'm a human being and if i speak up they'll shut up and i said you're allowing them to rip this from you they don't give a fuck and no they won't shut up they literally won't they'll spin whatever you say and it'll get worse you'll give them everything they want they'll say oh confirmed yep he said it i i knew it and then what you said but they're gonna rip it from me anyway so i might as well speak up and i said might as well not you're acting on emotion and impulse right now and that's exactly true and you said but i can't wait any longer i said you're not gonna solve anything i understand the frustrations because i i've been there you can absolutely wait you're gonna make it worse i have not seared you wrong yet and it's not worth it elliot i promise you and you said i just don't understand people

I responded and said, you will drive yourself crazy trying to.

You cannot control what they do.

You need to take time.

Use this as fuel to make sure you say everything you want to say.

Write it in a note on your phone, but you cannot what let them win this and he said okay i love you you're right i am acting on impulse it's just not fair that they can get to me like this and i don't even know them and i just said it's okay to be mad but write it all out on your phone so you start to feel better it's not fair it's actually heartbreaking and i i fully agree like this is something that you

should be able to speak out on your own terms and you shouldn't be responding simply because people are instigating and making you feel like shit about it.

It's like, this should be a proud moment.

It should be a happy moment.

It should be everything that you want it to be to inspire other people.

And I don't want you to speak out because you're angry or you're hurt.

Yeah, it definitely was out of impulse after that that I wanted to speak up sooner.

But

I, like she said, or like she always tells me, sleep on it.

And I did, and I felt better.

And I knew it was better to wait because

I can

have my moment and share, say everything that I want rather than out of anger talk about it in a one-minute video.

I think I've said enough things out of anger and you've seen that and felt it that it never really turned out well for me.

Yeah.

What was that like having to tell him, like give him the advice that you've been given and hated?

What was that like?

I felt it from both sides.

Like I felt like I understood both sides of it for the first time.

I understood your perspective or Alessandra's perspective or anyone in my corner's perspective for the first time on the other side of it.

And like in the moment, you don't want to hear it.

You're like, but I want to do this.

I want to say this.

I want to get this off my chest.

But like, truly, there is no, they're going to feel how they're going to feel regardless.

So let them hear this entire episode.

Let them hear it from your own mouth.

Let them, let you not be emotionally charged.

And it'll be perceived.

They're going to end up having their own feelings regardless, but it might be perceived differently when you're speaking from a place of love and compassion and inspiration and aspiration and all of those things versus emotionally charged anger because i mean look at my entire life on team up everything came from an emotionally charged place everything came from an angry place and a lot of people did not i mean i'm getting messages now that are hearing me from the podcast saying oh i have a completely different perspective because you said it differently Yeah, you have a different tone on your podcast versus on the TV.

That would have been you.

Elliot is speaking from a place of anger, of hurt, of heartbreak, of, you know, all of these things versus you coming on here now and having an actual conversation and a dialogue versus talking at people.

It sucks that the world works the way it works, but

understanding that is

half the battle.

Yeah.

If you take anything from this experience, looking at someone who's been on the emotional side with your mom for a very long time and also seeing how public reacts, you're never going to be able to, people are going to perceive things however they choose to, whether they come in with their own narrative or their own issues and they're triggered and whatever, but you're going to walk away from this proud of your own delivery and how you said it and it's for you.

Right.

So like, that's my hope.

1000% for this.

1,000%.

Couldn't have said it better.

Thank you all so much for tuning in to part one.

I hope you guys will spread love and positivity surrounding this.

I hope that you guys will show Elliot support and give him grace through all of this.

This is a very brave thing for him to do.

And I hope that you guys tune in for part two.

I'm Justin Sylvester.

And I'm Blakely Thornton.

Join us for Yestergaze, the podcast where we break down the most pivotal pop culture moments in history and give them the queer love that they deserve.

The things that got us riled up during dial-up, those makeouts that should have been breakouts, and the drops that were cemented in pop.

I'm talking Bennifer, Tyra vs.

Naomi, Tom Cruise jumping on that couch, and so much more.

So, please rate us, subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you get audio-related content.

We also take memo and cash app

or credit card number as well.

We're malleable, you know, we're gay today.