Riley Keough: Nepo babies, Addiction & Grief

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Speaker 1 What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy.

Speaker 1 Riley Keo, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 1 I am such a big fan. Thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me. Of course, I huge Daisy Jones and the Six.

Speaker 2 Oh, cool.

Speaker 1 Like, binged the whole thing and

Speaker 2 loved it.

Speaker 1 Thanks for watching. My husband was like, all right, you could take a break.
I'm like, no, no, no, no, it's kind of one of those where you just got to get going.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I got to get to the end.

Speaker 2 It was awesome.

Speaker 1 What was your favorite part of playing that role?

Speaker 2 I think getting to learn to sing and play guitar was my favorite part because it was that, I think that's one of my favorite things about acting in general is learning like a whole new skill set.

Speaker 2 And this one was like very

Speaker 2 in like

Speaker 2 normally you do a few rehearsals or do if you're, you know, training to

Speaker 2 do, I don't know, to be a dancer or whatever. I don't know.
Like, I've never done something so involved. Like, I haven't had to fully learn to like sing and play guitar.

Speaker 1 So I found that really fun. Wait, you were doing like full voice lessons?

Speaker 2 We were doing, yeah, like we had band practice every day

Speaker 2 and it was like a year

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 but we needed it like none of us not none of us a few of us had never picked up an instrument and or sang was there ever a point in your life that you would have considered a music career never no never no i still would never i'm not a singer i feel like you have a good voice unless they auto-tune it's fine they didn't auto-tune it but i have a fine voice i just got by but I

Speaker 2 uh I'm a realist and I know I'm not a singer.

Speaker 1 The fact that you're telling me they didn't edit your voice, you have a good voice.

Speaker 2 They didn't edit it. I think

Speaker 2 you call them.

Speaker 1 They're like, oh, babe, that shit was auto-tuned.

Speaker 2 You're like, fuck. I think they, I don't think they auto-tuned it.
I think the whole point was because it was meant to sound 1970s that you wouldn't do that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You sounded gorgeous.
Guys, leave it.

Speaker 2 I felt proud that I was able to do it because there was like a conversation

Speaker 2 about potentially getting like vocal stunt

Speaker 2 doubles or something.

Speaker 2 Oh oh my god and so i felt really determined to make it work and i feel proud we made it work you know i i girl i don't think i'm like the best singer in the world and i you know that's fine you made it work with fly i made it work um i love how you're like oh like i no no no i like never saying from my research you and dakota johnson were in a band together in new york city don't lie to my face

Speaker 2 this is so funny this comes up so often and like i think that we need to do something here because yes we were in a band but the band was me and her sitting with her brother around a table in her apartment in New York with Photo Booth, like doing covers of songs.

Speaker 2 But here's the thing: neither of us were confident singers, so we would just kind of like all sing together.

Speaker 1 Oh, so you were, you were all competing for like the lead role, you're all the lead role. You're all the lead.

Speaker 1 Wait, what was the band called?

Speaker 2 Fokey porn. Fokey porn for Caller Daddy.

Speaker 2 I'm obsessed.

Speaker 1 I had a band at one point, and I was like so committed. Did you really? Yeah, but it was so bad.

Speaker 2 What did you do?

Speaker 1 So, yeah, well, here's the thing: you know, I started as like the electric guitarist.

Speaker 2 Cool.

Speaker 1 But that is like loosely saying that. The only song I like.

Speaker 2 I'm a good electric guitar. Yeah.
I relate.

Speaker 2 I'm a loose guitar player.

Speaker 1 I like looked incredible holding it. Okay.
But the minute I would get going, it was, I was giving nothing. Right.
I knew how to play the like,

Speaker 1 whatever that song is. I could do those like three little things.
That was all I knew. Our band was called The Aliens.
It was a big deal. It was in my basement.
And then we changed it to Green Jelly.

Speaker 2 Cool. Were the other people in the band also loose?

Speaker 1 musicians? Everyone was loose.

Speaker 1 Everyone was loose.

Speaker 1 We were kind of just there for the vibes.

Speaker 1 Our sign was on like printer paper with like a little marker.

Speaker 1 It was edgy. It was the thing.
I actually paid my neighbors at one point like 25 cents to come watch us perform. Wow.
They were upset that we wasted their time. So like I'm a big band girl.

Speaker 2 So Dakota and I didn't get like that far into it. We kind of like it lasted maybe like three days.

Speaker 2 And then it was over. The band broke up.

Speaker 1 Good to know. Good to know.

Speaker 1 How do you guys know each other? Like when did you become friends?

Speaker 2 We became friends because we both grew up in LA and just there was some kind of I had a friend who was friends with her boyfriend and we met at like an in an in and out parking lot and then we went to all the same parties in in LA at like 16 17 and I'd see her out and about and then I became friends with her boyfriend and then so I went to go see his band play and she was always there and she was like the coolest girl the coolest the coolest she still is she is and then we just I don't know became friends and don't you love when like people are obsessed with like celebrity friendships?

Speaker 1 We're like, no, no, no, come on, tell us more. We're like, we're just friends.

Speaker 1 We're at in-and-out.

Speaker 2 Sometimes we hang out. We're going to talk on the phone.

Speaker 1 I think because it makes people feel like closer to you guys. Of like, you guys are obviously both like very cool, interesting people.

Speaker 1 And so I think to know that you guys are friends, people like, I'm like, come on, give me more tea.

Speaker 2 I can give you tea. I just don't really have any.
But if

Speaker 2 there's anything you can think of, I'm going to get a game. I will get.
I'm a tea giver. Okay.
Okay, good.

Speaker 1 You did show up today and be like, we don't have to cry.

Speaker 2 I just don't want you to feel pressure.

Speaker 1 I don't want you to feel pressure at all. If you hate any of my questions, let me know.
Okay.

Speaker 2 We can pivot.

Speaker 1 Deal. Okay, good.

Speaker 1 How do you think?

Speaker 2 Hate what? Hate.

Speaker 2 I'm like, let's sit in silence.

Speaker 1 I do love that you were 30 minutes

Speaker 1 early and you brought no one.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Can I tell you, I've had people come to my studio with

Speaker 1 20 people, 10 people, five people.

Speaker 1 But the solo.

Speaker 2 Solo is a first.

Speaker 2 Here's my answer. I'm not like technically on a press tour right now.

Speaker 2 So I'm not, I have, I have no problem going places all by myself, you know? I love that friend. And I like, I actually enjoy it.

Speaker 1 I am the same way whenever I go on a podcast, which is rare. I'm like, no one come with me.
I'm going to let it rip. Let God go with me.

Speaker 2 The cool thing about not having a publicist here is I can say whatever I want. For sure.

Speaker 1 Then she's going to call you after and be like, what was it? And you're like, I don't remember. We talked for almost an hour.
Like, who knows? Exactly. Just let it be.
You know what I mean? It's fine.

Speaker 1 You're not going to get canceled from this.

Speaker 1 How would your friends describe you?

Speaker 2 Oh my gosh. That's such a hard question.

Speaker 2 I don't know. I have no idea.
Like, in what way? Like, it's like a.

Speaker 1 Like, how would they describe you? Like, if Dakota was in the room right now, like, what would she say about you? Oh, we should, we could call her also. Do you want to?

Speaker 2 Let's call her. Hold on.

Speaker 1 That will be fucking funny. Go get your phone.

Speaker 2 So she didn't answer okay let's call another friend okay all you're asking is how would you describe me as a friend how would you describe me i'm on a show give me a good answer so do you want them to be famous or not i mean famous is fun famous is more fun okay like i'll call john it's so funny because people every i do this a lot of the time a lot and where people will be like how would your friends or what friends could we speak to about you for this interview and i give like my all my closest friends and they're like but what about like famous ones they're like they're like no no no we don't care about cassidy like we don't want, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 So funny. Okay.
Should I try Zoe Kravitz?

Speaker 1 Yeah, let's give her a go.

Speaker 2 The Nepo baby phone. I'm upset.

Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay. Oh my God.
Hello. Hi, wait.
You're on air.

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Speaker 2 Hello. I'm chewing.
Sorry. So what are you eating? What are you eating? I'm eating toast.

Speaker 2 I'm eating raisin toast.

Speaker 2 Cinnamon raisin toast with butter. Okay, so I'm on a podcast and they asked me to call a friend to describe how you would describe me as a friend.
As a friend, as a friend,

Speaker 2 I would describe you as a ride or die.

Speaker 2 Like, you are down for whatever. You will always show up all the time.
You're very consistent. Like, maybe me and you will not talk or see each other for like six months.

Speaker 2 And then it's like, we just pick up where we left off.

Speaker 2 And I think you're really good at keeping secret.

Speaker 2 I'm going to tell those on this pod.

Speaker 2 Like, actually.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 you're incredibly loyal.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 you're funny. You're funny as hell.

Speaker 2 And you're honest. Keep going.

Speaker 2 You always trust me back.

Speaker 2 That's so true. And

Speaker 2 it's true. Thanks so much.

Speaker 2 Thank you. You're welcome.
All right. Love you.
Love you. Bye.
Bye.

Speaker 2 One more. One more.
Okay.

Speaker 2 You're just like, you're such a bitch. You're just like a bitch.
You're a bitch? Really?

Speaker 2 Really?

Speaker 2 you're the nicest person in the world okay

Speaker 2 okay i love you too

Speaker 1 i'm obsessed thank you for doing that first of all imagine if you're like i'm just kidding i'm not on a podcast i'm just like feeling needy today keep going yeah right okay those that feels pretty accurate i don't know i didn't really hear much she said i was loyal she said you were loyal

Speaker 1 really good at keeping a secret

Speaker 1 you're like no no i am on air don't say anything please don't say i got nervous at what she was gonna say No, all of that was lovely. Okay.

Speaker 1 And I, when she said you were a bitch, I'm like, that is the complete opposite of what I'm getting. You're, you are a very like gentle soul.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 2 I think that I would say I would, I am a loyal friend. I do really care about my friends.
And, you know, I love. Hope.

Speaker 2 I think.

Speaker 2 Allegedly.

Speaker 2 Allegedly.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's talk about the book. It is so fascinating, like what you wrote about.

Speaker 1 From here to the great unknown.

Speaker 1 First of all, just to like tell the daddy gang, my audience, like how did this book come to be?

Speaker 2 This book came to be because my mother was in the middle of writing her autobiography. And

Speaker 2 in December,

Speaker 2 she came to me and said,

Speaker 2 you know, I need help. Like she couldn't, she didn't really, I think she just got to a point where she was feeling frustrated and she didn't like talking about herself.

Speaker 2 So, writing an autobiography was difficult. And she asked if I would help her.

Speaker 2 And then she passed away a month later.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I just found myself like it was just this thing that I had to do. So I just completed her memoir, which was, you know, very intense.

Speaker 2 How long did it take you? Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 Probably about a year.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow. Start to finish.
How do you think like having that project to work on after your mom passed like helped you work through your feelings?

Speaker 2 Well, I think that when I started working on the book, it was only like three, four months after she'd passed away. So it was very

Speaker 2 like intense and I didn't really want to be doing it, to be honest.

Speaker 2 It felt like this thing I had to complete.

Speaker 2 And so I was a little bit resistant in the beginning. And it's also like,

Speaker 2 it's very out of my comfort zone to write

Speaker 2 a story or tell all the things, like my family's personal, all these vulnerable things about my family.

Speaker 2 It's not something that I would do otherwise, you know? So it was, there was a lot, I felt very, very resistant, but ultimately I was doing it for her and it's what she wanted.

Speaker 2 And I knew how much she wanted to finish her autobiography and share her story so people could understand her more. and also so she could relate to people.
And she's been through so much.

Speaker 2 And I think that

Speaker 2 largely why she did this was to kind of share her experience in grief and addiction and these very human things. And so, yeah, so I would say that I

Speaker 2 did it, but I wasn't like really excited to do it.

Speaker 1 No, I think like hearing you even say that is interesting when you said like, My natural reaction isn't to just like spill all family secrets.

Speaker 1 And I think just to clarify for anyone that is not like familiar with like your family lineage, like you are Elvis's granddaughter. Your mom was Elvis's only daughter.

Speaker 1 And so I get what you're saying is like it's a very famous family that you come from. So to write basically like a big book being like, here's detail by detail what went down.

Speaker 1 Usually we don't get that from very famous families.

Speaker 2 Yes. And, you know,

Speaker 2 particularly in my family growing up and with my mom, she was extremely private. She hated talking to the press.
She didn't want to be famous.

Speaker 2 Like, she was born into a situation she really didn't enjoy.

Speaker 2 And growing up in the world we grew up in was very private, very secretive, very like everything was a security issue. Like there was no talking to friends about things.

Speaker 2 Like our family stuff was, you know, everything was very private. So it was a lot of,

Speaker 2 I had to push through that sort of

Speaker 2 uncomfortable feeling of like sharing all this information. But the other thing is, is like, as a person, I'm a very honest person.
And I also couldn't imagine, so was she, like, she was

Speaker 2 uncomfortably honest. So I think I couldn't have imagined a version of her book where she didn't.

Speaker 2 you know, share all these things.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and like go all in. Yeah.
Your baby photo was sold for $300,000 on the cover of People magazine. Like

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 is insane.

Speaker 2 And what's insane is I is like $300 then was like $300,000.

Speaker 1 $300,000.

Speaker 2 Sorry.

Speaker 2 $300.

Speaker 2 Was like a million dollars. Yes.
Close to a million dollars.

Speaker 1 Like you're so wanted.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 used to be.

Speaker 1 Can you, like, looking back at your childhood, obviously growing up in this famous family, what is something that was definitely not normal that like you got pretty used to because you were just like, oh, I, I thought this was our reality.

Speaker 2 Like, all of it.

Speaker 2 You know, like, if I, if I, like, shared the day-to-day growing up, it would probably be like, you know, crazy to give us a little, come on.

Speaker 2 Well, it was just a lot of like thing, like, it was very, like, high security.

Speaker 2 And, like, if we're going somewhere, it was like lots of people following us and very like intense and chaotic and like going through, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 Like, how are you so calm?

Speaker 2 I don't know. I'm not

Speaker 2 at all.

Speaker 2 Like internally I'm not. Internally,

Speaker 2 I'm burning down all day.

Speaker 1 It's the external, you're keeping it all together, but internally? Yes.

Speaker 1 Good to know. How would you have described yourself as a kid?

Speaker 2 I was very quiet.

Speaker 2 Really internal. I wasn't

Speaker 2 I got called shy a lot, but I actually wasn't shy. I just was very internal.
Like I just didn't have a lot to say and

Speaker 2 just was, yeah, I was very quiet.

Speaker 2 I was like that actually most of my life until I started to realize that people would perceive that as rude so I really pushed myself to to you know come out of my shell

Speaker 1 like right now I don't want to be talking but I have a camera in front of me gotta be here hi everyone oh that's so interesting so if like you're in if you're going through something in your life, whether it's like a fight with your partner or a friend, like, do you just go silent?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 no no no no i'm very i'm very emotional i'm just not somebody like at a dinner party got it if a lot of people are talking i prefer to listen it's just that it's not like i'm like internalized i'm very i'm very uh open with my emotions got it got it i'm just not like a big chatter love yeah love welcome to an hour sitting down with me let's go girl i am now i wasn't i've grown i've changed you're doing great i don't know i hope where am i um the book obviously switches between like your mom and her perspective and then yours.

Speaker 1 How do you think you guys were similar as teenagers?

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 2 I think I also had a moment of like rebellion. She had like her rebellious moment.
I also had that, like where I would sneak out and,

Speaker 2 you know, hang out with people I shouldn't. wasn't allowed to and getting arrested and you know you got arrested i did

Speaker 2 i've never said that you're like wait this is why i publicly most stick song where's my public sex to come in no one's here to save you wait that's kind of like i i was arrested once yeah it's a good mug shot i never saw it what i know you need to make t-shirts i know i was a minor so luckily i think it was like folks with like an underage yeah

Speaker 1 a lot of people that i know got those those are like i was like so terrified to get one because i like needed to go play like soccer and if you had one you couldn't play it was a whole thing right but like i was there

Speaker 2 you got a mug mug shot.

Speaker 1 You didn't get a mug shot. But now in hindsight, I'm like, oh, it would have been like a little edgy.

Speaker 2 So I had an edgy moment.

Speaker 2 Was it for just drinking? It was for.

Speaker 2 Oh, God. I can't say this.

Speaker 2 It was for breaking and entering. I'm like, what, where?

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 it was actually.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I went to a party at my friend's house. Okay.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 I didn't know that it wasn't my friend's house. It was a house for sale.

Speaker 2 And so most people, like the police came, and most people like got away. And then about 10 of us got arrested.
My mom was pissed.

Speaker 1 Did she try to like get it not in the papers?

Speaker 2 No, she was like, this is on you, girl.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Oh my God.
Luckily, it didn't get, it wasn't in the papers.

Speaker 1 Was your mom someone that would punish you? Like, are you getting grounded? I was grounded.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. I was grounded for like three months.
And I was grounded on my like 16th or 15th birthday or something. Yeah.
That's tough. I was grounded and she was in Las Vegas.

Speaker 2 And I had to call her and tell her to come back from Vegas and pick me up in prison. I've never told anyone this.

Speaker 1 You're like, mom, I'm in jail.

Speaker 2 She's like, I'm on the strip, bitch. What? No.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 she's like, I can't get there. So she sent my aunt to come get me.
And

Speaker 2 so, you know, I had a moment. I had a moment as a teenager and she also did.
Love. Yeah.
Love. Okay.

Speaker 1 You write a lot about like the different relationships that your mom had romantically throughout your childhood.

Speaker 1 When you were five, your parents got divorced because your mom wanted to marry Michael Jackson. How was this? explained to you as a kid, like that they were getting divorced.

Speaker 2 So my mom, I was like, we were in Florida and I was sitting on her lap and she said, I'm

Speaker 2 me and your dad are getting a divorce. And I took like the way I received it was that he wasn't my dad anymore.

Speaker 2 And it was like, it's so memorable to me because I just was destroyed. I didn't understand what a divorce was.
So I just thought like he's not my dad now.

Speaker 2 But the great thing was shortly after, like they were so close and they really cared about keeping them, you you know, our family dynamic the same. So he was at our house and staying over.

Speaker 2 And so he was there a lot.

Speaker 1 So I think I kind of forgot about it, which was so you got to see like a very loving relationship between the two of them, even though they got divorced.

Speaker 2 Yeah, like a really unique, like it was a very unique experience, especially in the 90s, you know, to have both of your parents

Speaker 2 sort of like brother and sister, really close, living together. He lived with us for a lot of my life when my mom had other partners and other

Speaker 2 uh husbands um he would live in the guest house and so my

Speaker 2 what was modeled to me was when you break up with someone you stay friends with them um and like i really like apply that to most of my relationships because that was kind of all that i that was what i saw with my parents and um it was really beautiful i mean they were they were like best friends and i don't know if they should have been married we when you break up with someone or they break up with you and you're staying friends with them, have any of your past relationships been like, Riley,

Speaker 1 like we broke up. Why are like, are you still trying to stay so amicable? And are people ever confused by like how amicable you are?

Speaker 2 No, because I think that like it was never a forced thing. I think I just, I don't know how I did it.

Speaker 2 There were, there was like one

Speaker 2 relationship that there was, you know, no friendship there. But for the most part, all the other ones, I don't even know.
It wasn't, I wasn't like consciously thinking about it.

Speaker 2 We just ended up friends.

Speaker 1 It's just kind of like how you were raised to think that that's how you go about it, which is probably in hindsight, like a,

Speaker 1 I don't know, do we think it's a better way to go about it?

Speaker 2 Like, well, my feeling was always like, this is a person that I love, that I spent a lot of time with. Why wouldn't I have them in my life? Yeah.
If,

Speaker 2 you know, unless it was like some like crazy, unhealthy situation. Yes.

Speaker 2 Of course, it's uncomfortable for a minute, but I think ultimately, if it's someone that I really cared that much about,

Speaker 2 then I'd want them in my life somehow.

Speaker 1 We just skirted past the big name, Michael Jackson. Okay.
Let's go back for a second.

Speaker 1 So on top of like your family already being obviously so famous, how did your life get even crazier when Michael entered the picture?

Speaker 1 Because he had his own slew of like paparazzi and people following him and a media empire, essentially.

Speaker 2 Our life wasn't crazier because that was already there, that already existed, like the press and the crazy, the paparazzi and the, you know, all that.

Speaker 2 But her life, I think when she saw Michael's life, there were things that he had that she didn't have, like she didn't have a plane at the time or, you know, things like that.

Speaker 2 And so her, she want, she then was like, oh, I'm, I should have a plane and I should have a, you know, this and that. And so our life in that way kind of got bigger.
Got bigger.

Speaker 2 Because she, before that, she was with my dad and my dad, their life was very simple.

Speaker 2 Not with the press and the craziness, but in terms of like at home, like she didn't have 10 million assistants. And, you know, she didn't need all of that.
And I think that changed.

Speaker 1 How did your mom try to protect you and your brother from the paparazzi during all this?

Speaker 2 It's so funny because I get tagged in these photos all the time where we're wearing like a hat and glasses. And I'm like, what does that do?

Speaker 2 It's so weird. Stunning.

Speaker 2 Like a hiding our faces.

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 2 I guess they attempted to hide our faces, but it was like impossible.

Speaker 1 What is the most like extravagant thing Michael did for you and your brother?

Speaker 2 There was a lot of like

Speaker 2 closing down

Speaker 2 things for us.

Speaker 2 Well, it was kind of like the only way that our family could do things.

Speaker 2 Like

Speaker 2 if we wanted to go to a toy store or like

Speaker 2 something like that, like or ride rides or, you know, so so it wasn't I don't know if it was necessarily done for us us or just for like

Speaker 2 our family situation where we had to shut the, you know, the toy stores and stuff. But there was one memorable time in London where

Speaker 2 we were in the toy store, so it was just my brother and I in the whole toy store, and we were just like going floor to floor to floor and like filling up our

Speaker 2 thing. And yeah, that was the first thing that comes to mind.
But I don't know if it was for us or just like the way that our life was, you know?

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Speaker 1 It's so interesting, like hearing that, because now I know obviously you have a daughter

Speaker 1 growing up with such lavish things around you. Have you thought to yourself like that was so normal to you? And like, how are you going to parent differently than how your mom parented you?

Speaker 2 I think she was such a, she was an amazing parent and she wanted us to have I think like her father did

Speaker 2 these amazing experiences all the time. For me personally I

Speaker 2 want

Speaker 2 I think that the problem there could be for some that when you're used to so much it's hard to find joy in simple things

Speaker 2 and so I

Speaker 2 really want my children to be able to find joy in just, you know, playing in in the backyard and doing normal kid stuff and not need like elephants and circus and you know like all these things all the time yeah so that's probably what i would do differently but um i think her intention was really

Speaker 1 you know wanting to to give everything she could to her kids have you had a hard time like finding happiness in the simple things since you were around such wealth and big moments.

Speaker 2 I think that there was a time in my life where

Speaker 2 I was like, oh,

Speaker 2 we're not going to, you know, let me think of a good example of this. Like,

Speaker 2 like even going to dinner growing up was like 50 people. It was like a big deal.
Everything was a big deal all the time.

Speaker 2 So there was more of like a loneliness that would, that I experienced in my 20s when our life was a bit different of.

Speaker 2 I was just used to having so many people around and everything being so intense that I felt a little bit lonely

Speaker 2 when it was when my life was smaller, I think.

Speaker 1 I think that's like a relatable concept.

Speaker 1 I think like I always talk to my friends who when you get older and you're like life is changing and and families and Thanksgivings like Even if you look at what we see in like Hallmark movies and everything, like the bigger seems happier, right?

Speaker 1 Like a big family at a table and everyone is there. And when you have a smaller unit, it feels like this isn't as fun.

Speaker 1 This isn't as, when really, like, it could be more intimate and you can have stronger connections. And it's not, it doesn't mean it's not fun.
Yeah. But there's this feeling.

Speaker 2 It's that. It's that exact phenomenon, but like, probably just a little different.

Speaker 2 But yes, it's like probably the same feeling you'd get if you, you know, came from a huge family and had big family gatherings all the time.

Speaker 2 And then it was just, you know, you or you moved somewhere and you're just like, what? This feels lonely.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 Obviously, finishing, because I have to acknowledge it with the Michael stuff. Like, obviously, before your mom's relationship with him, there were allegations of abuse and that he assaulted children.

Speaker 1 Then your mom went on to marry him and you spent a good amount of time with him.

Speaker 1 Like, were there any adults in your life that were like, wait, I don't know if you should be spending time at Neverland. I don't know if we want you to be there.
Like, was your dad nervous?

Speaker 2 I was never told anything.

Speaker 2 so even as it's and it's actually not something I ever asked as an adult why do you think I don't know I think it just like was what it was like I didn't I don't know it just never came to mind I guess

Speaker 2 I would imagine that my dad was really heartbroken and reading the news and I'm sure that I'm just imagining of course I would imagine he said all kinds of things to my mom, you know, that we didn't

Speaker 2 know about, but nothing like the way my parents parented

Speaker 2 was very much like, we don't fight around the kids. We don't ever say anything around them.
There was no, like, we didn't know anything. We didn't know about any allegations.
We didn't know.

Speaker 2 We had no awareness of that.

Speaker 1 As an adult, when you look back on that time of your life, like, how do you feel about it now?

Speaker 2 Um.

Speaker 2 I mean, the one thing I know is that they were in love and that their love for one another was genuine, you know, because I was there and I remember everything else, like, I don't know, because I wasn't there for, you know, when your mom would break up with these people and she would like find a different partner at some point in your life, like, how do you think that affected your own attachment style?

Speaker 2 That's really interesting. I definitely would be really upset.
Like, when she would break up with people, Michael, her other partners, I would cry. I'd get mad at her.

Speaker 2 I really was

Speaker 2 upset. Like, I'd get mad at her.
I'd be pissed, you know,

Speaker 2 not knowing what happened, but I was always just mad at my mom for the breakups. So it really affected me.

Speaker 2 My attachment style, the one thing I know is that, like,

Speaker 2 throughout, through all of her relationships, everyone would always go, she should have stayed with Danny, who's my dad.

Speaker 2 And so I always have this voice in the back of my head that's like, she should have stayed with Danny. and I

Speaker 2 I know that she was you know

Speaker 2 someone who

Speaker 2 when things got

Speaker 2 boring or mundane or difficult she was like see ya you know right and uh

Speaker 2 I think that there's this part of me that feels like

Speaker 2 I don't know staying with

Speaker 2 if you find if you're so lucky to find somebody who is like your kind of best friend in the way that that they were to to try and like you know make it work make it work yeah that was what I thought was interesting in the book was like basically saying like when your mom was

Speaker 1 um when she was passing like wasn't he like the last person there basically for her yeah and through all of these different relationships didn't she date like Nicholas Cage at what point these big moments that were press moments but really the through line was like it seemed like your mom and dad like always kind of stayed by each each other's side which i can imagine for your own like romantic situation i know you're married now but like prior to your husband

Speaker 1 were were you ever feeling that through line of like ooh this is getting boring i'm gonna run or have you you know what i mean i definitely had that when i was younger okay when i was younger i was very hard to pin down

Speaker 2 i was not interested in you know sticking around yeah and i definitely, like, didn't have the best track record there.

Speaker 2 So that I think would tie to sort of my mom's way of like, you know, moving on once the, the thrill. The thrill is, you know, whatever.
That when I was a teenager, I was like a. That makes sense.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I'm curious, like, was there any part of you that was ever nervous to get married?

Speaker 2 No, which is so stupid.

Speaker 2 I was, I mean, I was young. I was 25 when I got married.
Oh my God. I was a little girl.
And you weren't nervous? I wasn't nervous. I was so excited.
I didn't, I, I didn't know what marriage was.

Speaker 2 I hadn't been in a relationship longer than three years, you know? Like, I, I didn't think about it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I love that for you. I mean, that's like really interesting to hear because like, I know why I love these type of conversations.

Speaker 1 It's like, you never know what you're going to get because some people could be in your situation and be like, I was so.

Speaker 2 petrified because I didn't want to do what my mom had done or you know, you're gonna like play out what she was doing but you're like no I like went right into it yeah I didn't really think I was yeah it wasn't impulsive or anything I just like knew that he was the person I knew he was the person that I was meant to have kids with I just knew it so I don't know and neither of us were like

Speaker 2 neither of us ever put any pressure on it either it wasn't like we still don't we're not like

Speaker 2 Our marriage will never fail and we're going to be together till we're 80. You know, like we're both kind of like, if we ever were unhappy, we would get divorced.
Right. You know, you're realists.

Speaker 2 We're realists. We're like, like whatever

Speaker 1 you talk about how your mom was very open with you and that sometimes could feel like a curse

Speaker 2 what do you mean by that there were just not a lot of boundaries it was very like everyone knew everything about everybody yeah um and everyone was involved in everybody's if i was breaking up with a boyfriend like she was involved you know like it was like that kind of a thing um she everyone you know my brother my dad like we were very enmeshed i think um wow yeah so would you ever find yourself though, like roles reversed?

Speaker 1 I feel like sometimes people get to the point where they almost become the mother to their mother.

Speaker 1 Did you ever play therapist with your mom?

Speaker 2 Yes, I think that there was a certain point, probably in my mid-20s, when I sort of

Speaker 2 became more of the caretaker in the relationship. And I think it was around when she became addicted to opiates.

Speaker 2 Because she was always sort of the like leader in our family, and then she had, had,

Speaker 2 you know, fell into her addiction. And at that point, I sort of,

Speaker 2 yeah, our dynamic changed a lot.

Speaker 1 Can we talk about that?

Speaker 1 Because so many friends, and I have these conversations now, I have people that write in and it's like such a mind fuck when you become the adult in the dynamic with your parent because you're like, wait, no.

Speaker 2 It's inevitable.

Speaker 1 It's so weird and hard.

Speaker 1 And it's like, you have to have so, you either have to have so many conversations or you don't and it just is what it is and you're left feeling a little bit like an identity crisis because your parent who you could always go to and be like the child to you're kind of now like wait why are you relying on me so heavily for things that like i think the weirdest part about it in my experience is they don't notice they're doing it yes you know and you're like wait no

Speaker 1 how who's seeing this like it's such an unsaid thing yeah no you're so right like they're not aware, but you're aware.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I'm like, and that's like awkward because you can't say like, I don't want to be your parent.

Speaker 1 Like grow up.

Speaker 1 What is going on?

Speaker 1 And that's why I think it's such a mind fuck because then the people or the person that you're most likely going to in your past go to to complain about something like that is your mom.

Speaker 2 So you go to the other one. Right.
So you go to your dad. And then he's losing it too.
And you're like, oh shit, we're all going insane.

Speaker 1 It's really interesting watching my parents get older now.

Speaker 2 I'm like, do you feel like you have that dynamic with your parents?

Speaker 1 I started to in a moment and I have been doing a lot of therapy. Yeah.
And they have, like, my mom and I have talked about like our therapy journeys.

Speaker 1 Cause I'm like, we got to try to not make this happen.

Speaker 2 Like we, even if we're equals as adults, but I think, and it's, and it's, what are the ways, if you're comfortable in sharing, that you find yourself in that situation? Like how?

Speaker 1 I think like as basic as like

Speaker 2 calling me

Speaker 1 for help

Speaker 1 on everything, where you're like,

Speaker 1 how did we get here? How did we get here?

Speaker 2 How did we get through life where I have to say, like, that is something that I really am going to try my best.

Speaker 2 I don't know if it's just inevitable, but like, as a parent, like, I don't ever want my kids to feel like they have to take care of me. Yeah.
Or, unless they literally do.

Speaker 2 But I mean, like, emotionally, you know, I don't want, I don't want my children to feel like my happiness is their responsibility.

Speaker 1 I feel the same way, but I also feel like so many people have that point of like, I'm going to do it so differently than my parents. And it feels like every generation says that.

Speaker 1 And then we keep fucking up.

Speaker 2 I think there's another, you know, I think you just have to accept that you're going to do stuff wrong. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And you're going to end up like your, your child is going to end up talking to the therapist about you. It's just part of being a parent.

Speaker 2 So, I, for me, I just, I try and not, you know, read into it or read anything

Speaker 2 at all. I don't read.
I sit inside. I don't read, but I think there's so much pressure, you know, to improve on the future generations as, you know, whatever.

Speaker 2 And, and so, I think, I don't know, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 No, it's such a

Speaker 1 people like, and pivot. And pivot.
I know exactly what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 Also, I love that you having a daughter, like, did your mom ever talk to you about the trauma and the grieving process of like losing her father and like how she dealt with that?

Speaker 1 Because I feel like you write a lot in the book of like seeing her in a moment, like crying and drinking and crying over Elvis' death, but then it's like,

Speaker 2 she never talked about her grief. She only would talk about him.
So she never would, I don't think she processed her grief. Like, I think that because her grief was so public,

Speaker 2 she would hide a lot of her feelings because she they felt personal, like something she could keep to herself. So, I think because of that, she didn't really talk about the grief so much.

Speaker 2 Um, and I think, as in her late 40s, and like when she was 50, she started realizing that she hadn't really ever talked about it to anybody,

Speaker 2 which I think is also common with older generations. You know, nobody was talking about

Speaker 2 all their things.

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Speaker 1 Okay, here's the thing. You know, listen up, okay?

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Speaker 1 You obviously have experienced grief. I mean, you lost your brother and your mom in a span of a couple of years, two years.

Speaker 1 How have you thought about like

Speaker 1 how to process grief in terms of one for yourself, but also for your daughter? Because, right? Like, you watched your mom not be able to handle it till she was about 40, 50 and start to feel it.

Speaker 1 Like, have you taken different steps?

Speaker 2 The only like step that I've actively taken is to like feel my feelings.

Speaker 1 It's a good step.

Speaker 2 That's a good step. Which is a lot harder than it sounds.
Yes. You know? And some of them are, have been extremely unbearable.
And whether that's grief or

Speaker 2 anxiety sadness like um

Speaker 2 I think that feeling my feelings is is has been the only conscious thing that I've done and trying to be present in my feelings could you give

Speaker 1 just because I know there's so many people that do deal with family members that have addiction like How did your relationship with your mom change when she became addicted to painkillers?

Speaker 2 Well, I've had a lot of family members who have had addiction issues that I will and won't say on air because it's their personal,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 story, but more than just my mother.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it's been a really interesting life because I've been surrounded in a way with people suffering from addiction, but there's never anything I can really do about it.

Speaker 2 And it's, I, I have, I found myself kind of going like, what is the lesson here? Like to be around people harming themselves and and nothing i do will change it and so the only thing that i could

Speaker 2 do was surrender to what is you know yeah and uh of course

Speaker 2 i mean with my mom it was a

Speaker 2 you know years of me trying to drag her into you know rehab or get her help or like so much effort, you know,

Speaker 2 and thinking like, this is going to be effective every time and

Speaker 2 not really being present in the fact that the person sitting across from me is not participating in my plan, you know?

Speaker 2 So I just was, I mean, that was, I tried really hard to, you know, keep all of these plates spinning. And then ultimately it resulted in like, you know,

Speaker 2 addiction sort of resulted in the loss of two of my family members. Yeah.
I was kind of forced to surrender.

Speaker 2 And I think that

Speaker 2 it's a really hard line because you can't do nothing

Speaker 2 because you feel

Speaker 2 like,

Speaker 2 you know, you have to.

Speaker 2 Someone you love is suffering. You have to do everything you can to help alleviate the suffering.
So I wouldn't necessarily like take back all of the effort that I put in.

Speaker 2 But it's just a weird

Speaker 2 lesson in like,

Speaker 2 I don't know. I don't know what.
I actually don't know.

Speaker 1 I think that's a good answer, though, because I feel like

Speaker 1 there's so many people that go through it and you feel like you're kind of like going in circles at some point.

Speaker 1 It's like the same thing with it's a way more extreme version of when someone doesn't want to go to therapy and you're trying to get them to go to therapy.

Speaker 1 It's like you can't make the person go to therapy. They don't with addiction.
It's like this person,

Speaker 1 you can try to help,

Speaker 1 but at some point, you also, in a weird way, have to like give yourself some grace that like, yeah, something my mom always would say is she'd say, tough love doesn't work.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that was, I didn't give tough love, that was, that's not part of who I am, but to other people around her who would try and like force, enforce things. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I really agree with that. Like, I don't think that personally, like, unless the, unless the person is really causing harm

Speaker 2 or is a threat to you and your safety or, you know, then that, then it's very different in addiction. But I never withdrew love in

Speaker 2 moments of, you know, difficulty through addiction. And I really believe that, you know, I think there's a lot of, like, when you watch those TV shows that are like about,

Speaker 2 you know, whatever, addicts and stuff, and they're dragging them out of, you know, these are human beings that are in pain.

Speaker 1 So I think that um always operating from a place of empathy to me was always felt right i one of the things that you wrote in your book that i felt like was so sad for you because it goes back to that like isolating feeling was when you kind of talked about being seen as a narc by your family you're like i was my brother is telling me to leave the club and i didn't know why and i was like oh he's sending me home so he can start doing drugs in the club and he didn't want you around like how do you think that affected the way you acted around your family?

Speaker 1 Because I think the people that aren't doing the drugs, like I've had a situation like this where like

Speaker 1 someone trying to hide it from you. And then you also just kind of feeling like

Speaker 1 not wanted. And as much as you don't want to be a part of the drugs, you also feel like you're being alienated because you're the only quote unquote sober one.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It was a really strange experience because I never was, we were never having the same experience.
Like in my experience, I was always being very, I was being firm, but I was always very gentle.

Speaker 2 And to them, it was like,

Speaker 2 you're making me feel so bad. Like, they took it, everything was really,

Speaker 2 was received

Speaker 2 really intensely. And it wasn't my experience.
So, I think there's so much like shame around addiction

Speaker 2 that

Speaker 2 it's really hard to like

Speaker 2 have convers, you know, honest conversations. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But I, you know, like,

Speaker 2 I don't know. It wasn't like I'm in the room.
Everybody's like leaving me out or something, you know, it was a, it was a slow burn. Yeah.

Speaker 1 When you went through this like two-year span of grief, essentially, or like the beginning of, who did you lean on? Like, who do you go to when you're, you need someone to support you?

Speaker 2 I really leaned on people who had had similar experiences because it felt so so isolating.

Speaker 2 I had friends who had lost loved ones in various ways and I found that to be the most comforting because I just wanted them to tell me that I was going to be okay, you know, from someone who had experienced it and say, like, you're going to survive this.

Speaker 2 And because in the moments,

Speaker 2 in the moment itself, particularly losing my brother, I didn't see a way that I could.

Speaker 2 So I wanted to just talk to people who had lost a sibling, sibling, had lost someone in a sort of more shocking sort of way, like the way I lost my brother, people who had experienced suicide.

Speaker 2 I just wanted to hear just from them. But then I had amazing, an amazing group of friends around me and husband.

Speaker 2 But it's a really isolating experience.

Speaker 1 It is. I appreciate you talking about it.

Speaker 1 And I think that's what was wonderful about you writing about your experience in the book is like, like you saying, you wanted to go to certain people that had experienced it because you, as much as you love certain friends, it's like, if they don't understand, if they've never gone through it, you're kind of like, okay, I don't need you to like hold my hand right now.

Speaker 1 I literally need like answers. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I would go on, I would go on like Reddit. I would literally go on forums and go like, and just because it was, it was such an isolating experience.
Right.

Speaker 2 And, and like read people's experiences and like blogs. And like I talked, DM'd with people on Instagram who DM'd me, who had also lost their siblings.

Speaker 2 Like I would just talk to them and be like, did you feel this way? Did you feel this way? Because it was so lonely. Right.
So, I, anyone who had experienced it, I would literally talk to. Talk to.

Speaker 1 Oh my god, you on Reddit.

Speaker 2 I know that. I love that for you.

Speaker 1 Are you also a Reddit sleuth, though?

Speaker 2 No, no, no. I'm not like

Speaker 2 I'm not, I don't, I just do a Google. I'm not like deep.
I don't have an account.

Speaker 2 You're like XXXR F M N N Q

Speaker 2 N ARC 25.

Speaker 2 Imagine you're like the biggest, biggest Reddit sleuth and this all comes out one day.

Speaker 1 We find your account. No.

Speaker 1 Okay, I read that you're a certified death doula.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Can you talk to me about what that entails and how you got into that?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I got into it because a friend of mine was a death doula. And

Speaker 2 because of what I was just saying, how I felt like when my brother died, there were no resources and I was literally going on Reddit. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I found a community of people who worked in like the death world. Wow.
And I didn't know that that existed. And she was a death doula.

Speaker 2 And I just thought if I could make myself of use at all to people who were experiencing anything like this, I would. So I, yeah, I did my death doula training and got certified.

Speaker 2 It's based, it's essentially like what a birth doula is for dying, and you're taught how to be with the dying person.

Speaker 1 Do you find like that

Speaker 1 kind of also continues to heal you while you work with other people? Or is it at all triggering if something is similar that they're going through, that you've been through?

Speaker 2 It's, I wouldn't say triggering.

Speaker 2 I would say you're very empathetic, you know?

Speaker 2 It's hard to,

Speaker 2 you're, because you've experienced something, you, you're very much with them emotionally because it's a shared

Speaker 2 law, like an experience of grief. Yeah.
So, um,

Speaker 2 yeah, I think it's just it's not that I'm triggered and thinking of my own situation, but I'm

Speaker 2 very much emotionally with

Speaker 2 the person. Yeah.

Speaker 1 When you were in the press with like all of that shit about the estate and everything and legal and all of this, like, how does it feel when your family is so publicly like in the news like that?

Speaker 1 And that, I feel like, was the first time you were at the forefront.

Speaker 2 So that's, that's actually true. Like, my family's been, since I, my first memories is my family's in the news 24-7.

Speaker 2 Like growing up, every, where I would go, my family are on the front of every magazine. Like,

Speaker 2 as a child, like, that was very normal. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 my mom

Speaker 2 received all of it, you know?

Speaker 2 When my mom died,

Speaker 2 that was the first time I received all of that.

Speaker 2 energy, which was very intense. And it made me really empathize with her.
You know, it's funny when I, I've been doing press for

Speaker 2 years, like I've been acting for a long time. And typically, it's a pretty good experience.
When I went out to do press for this book,

Speaker 2 like the vibe I got from certain interviewers was aggressive.

Speaker 2 Like, tell me this thing. Tell me the answer to this.
Why did this happen?

Speaker 2 Like a more like, like putting me on, like in the hot seat kind of experience, which I've never, like, as an actor, I'm just having a nice time doing press, you know?

Speaker 2 And I was like, wow,

Speaker 2 because it's like related to my mom, I'm getting the energy my mom would get, you know?

Speaker 2 And it's so interesting.

Speaker 1 And maybe it's because of the name and how media was different back in the day. And there were just like the core tenants of who was famous and there weren't that many famous people.

Speaker 1 It almost is like they're carrying on that sense of entitlement in media of like, we deserve to know this and we will go to the end of the earth to get the picture and the shot and the information.

Speaker 1 And you're literally like,

Speaker 2 wait, I'm like, wait, this does not happen anymore.

Speaker 2 Like, no, no, you nope.

Speaker 1 You're like, next question. And you're like, wait, you can't say that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Do you want to fight?

Speaker 2 That's crazy.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But then I realized like.

Speaker 2 what she would have been dealing with.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's so interesting. Like you're, every generation, it changes and it gets different.

Speaker 1 Like, and the way that you probably feel about your grandfather is so different than the way that your mother felt about her father and how your daughter will feel about her grandfather like this empire that he was yeah that's what's so interesting is reading this book and hearing you talk about it for most of us like this has been a very long time since Elvis was at the center of the conversation.

Speaker 1 It's really wild.

Speaker 2 Like

Speaker 2 I don't quite understand either. It's like there's still movies all the time.
Like, and I'm like, this is, you know, it's, it's, it's amazing that somebody could, you know, impact people so much.

Speaker 2 Like, it's, it's really unique, you know? And I, you know, I really appreciate it because, of course, we love our family and,

Speaker 2 you know, want other people to as well. But I do, I do often go, like, there's always like in my inbox, like this movie and that movie and Elvis.
And I'm like, wow, it's really still popping.

Speaker 2 Still popping.

Speaker 2 You're like, no, grandma.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Okay. In a way, with this book now finally being out, do you feel a sense of relief?

Speaker 1 Like, not that it's being put to bed, but you got to tell this story and now it's like the next chapter of your life is beginning.

Speaker 2 I do feel relief because it felt like this thing that I knew was coming that was going to be this big thing and I did sort of want it to be over. Yeah.
You know?

Speaker 2 I think this is like my last podcast, by the way.

Speaker 2 You're like, I'm done. I'm going out with a bang.
I love it. I love it.

Speaker 2 And I, yeah, I don't want to think about my

Speaker 2 trauma all day, every day, you know?

Speaker 1 I feel like I didn't, we didn't get too crazy, right?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 You wanted to laugh more.

Speaker 2 No, I didn't want to laugh. I don't, to be honest, I had no expectations.

Speaker 1 Did your friends think you were coming in to talk about sex?

Speaker 2 I literally,

Speaker 2 we can.

Speaker 2 I mean, I'm an open book.

Speaker 1 Maybe you're going to have to come back on over there and do like a different Caller Daddy episode. Great.
Where we get into this.

Speaker 2 We'll do a tea. We'll do a tea episode

Speaker 2 coming soon.

Speaker 1 I'm very, very appreciative. Thank you so much for taking the time.
I know this is like a lot. So thank you.

Speaker 2 No, I appreciate it.

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