Matt Gaetz | Club Random with Bill Maher

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Run your game. Must be president in certain states.
Visit prizepicks.com for restrictions and details. Did you think I was not bright? Yeah.
And what gave you that impression? Like everything you've said and done. Anybody who can't point out where their side is wrong is just a vessel through which others are right.
Well, where's your side most wrong? You know, I'm like one step away from PETA membership. I'm a total animal member.
Well, I'm a board member for many years. Yeah.
So, really? Yeah. I was like the only— There's an interesting thing about you i didn't know you're you're an animal lover uh yeah i think i was the only member of congress when i first ran endorsed by the humane society and the nra that's usually not a group that's that usually isn't a coalition that teams up frequently well i mean you can be you can be for gun ownership without wanting to murder animals with it.
And also, you know, look, I talked a lot to people who hunt and shit. And, you know, they convinced me.
Like, I was a little naive about some of that stuff. First of all, farming actually kills a lot of animals.
To plow a field, you've got to kill everything in that field. Every mouse, every vole, every chipmunk, everything that lives there has got to go so you can till that soil.
And also, like when you go to the supermarket and you're buying chopped meat, I mean, somebody killed it. And sometimes, I just learned, sometimes you'll go there and get like a pack of hamburgers, meat, and it came from like 30 different cows.
It didn't come off of one animal. Yeah, pink slime.
The one that gets me when it comes to that scale of farming is what they're doing with the palm oil in Indonesia, in South Asia, where it is just... You and I will live to see the last orangutan die.
The thing that is most like humans on the entire planet Earth will be extinct because of palm oil, as if that's some great need. No, it's not.
It's not even good for you. No.
Are you here? So our origin story for me goes back to politically incorrect, what I still believe is one of the, I'm not just kissing your ass, one of the best shows that was on TV. Thanks.
It's way better than your show now. But it's so insulting.
Politically incorrect was so good. That's so insulting.
It's not. I'm just for the OG.
You're saying to me what I did 25 years ago is better than what I've done the last 20 years. That's insulting.
I'm not going to be mad at you for the rest of the interview. I just want to tell you, that's just a fucking stupid way to start a conversation.
So you think— You peaked 20 years ago, Bill. Let's be friends.
No, it's not peaking. That's what you just said.
It's a better artistic presentation of your work. First of all, you're wrong.
You know, you could say to me, I like that show too. but it's not piquing it's a better artistic presentation of your first of all you're wrong so you're i i you know you could say to me i like that show too but it's certainly not better than real time it just isn't it was it was what it was it was a design train wreck people from different walks of life maybe you were young it appealed to you more than what don't you like about the current show i like it i think it's good it's on a criticism of the current show look i like uh you know uh taylor swift's current stuff i don't think it's better than her initial album well don't compare me to taylor swift i'm not a big no but but in terms of in terms of in terms of artists you can have better presentations of your art so what but i mean you know real time, we have on actually intellectual people and people who are expert in talking about the subjects we're talking about.
Politically incorrect, we had, you know, Carrot Top and Pauly Shore on. No, but what I liked about it is that you would interface those folks with lawmakers, with authors, people like like that and you do that on real time as

well no i but not poorly sure you have to be you have to be knowledgeable of what we're talking

it's a much more adult show you know i again i invented it sweetheart so you know i love

politically incorrect the sign is right behind you but it's not better than what i do now i mean

the game went up it didn't go down but you know everybody's like your opinion do you think right behind you. But it's not better than what I do now.
I mean, the game went up. It didn't go down.
But, you know, everybody's like your opinion. Do you think part of that is attention span is so fleeting now? Like, when we would create content in my congressional office, like, the young staffers would come in and say, if it's above, like, eight seconds, you're losing audience at such a rapid pace.
It's, I mean, it's so interesting that we're doing a podcast, which if you do just an hour, the audience thinks that's too short. I get what you're saying.
I've asked this question many times. I don't get the attention span of the American public.
It seems to be either eight seconds or two hours. They want podcasts to be long.
When I just did an hour, there was always screaming at me, no, more, more, more. What do you make of that? I look at what happened in the sports space where ESPN has to go and fire all of these expensive on-air talents in order to go put Pat McAfee on streaming multiple hours a day in service of that long-form audience.
But then again, the way that Instagram is driven now by the reels or whatever it is, their stories, and then YouTube has their short form content. Yeah, I guess it's either short or long and the middle is losing.
So are you happy to be free of Congress and all this kind of stuff? Well, I don't seem- You seem very relaxed. As relaxed as one can be under these conditions.
I think that Congress is supposed to be temporary. I mean, I'd done it for eight years.
I'd been in elected office six years before that in the state legislature. So from age 26 to 42, I was an elected official.
And I think that should be a season of life. I don't think it should be your whole life.
But I mean, like the things that people talk about when they get out of Congress, that they are so happy that they don't have to do anymore, like fundraising and that stuff. I never did that anyway.
I mean, I am the only Republican. I was the only Republican in Congress who took no lobbyist money, no PAC money.
And I decided I would rather sink or swim on my own than be a valet for those people. Well, how did you get away with that? I mean, how did you then get the money to run your elections? Because why did they all, why does everybody else do it? Before Donald Trump, there was no small dollar infrastructure on the Republican side.
Obama had created that. He used the Chicago Ward style system, put it on the internet, scaled it to the moon.
And there was a- Wait, wait, wait, go back. I don't know what you're talking about.
What's the Chicago ward style? Democrats invested in the internet before Republicans, politically speaking. And so they did this list building.
Traditionally, that list building, your ward boss would know this person needs a little help with groceries. This person's son needs a job.
This person cares about issue X or the park, whatever. And that was managed very locally.
What Obama understood is that you could digitize that and scale it to the moon. David Plouffe wrote a great book about one of the best books on politics, Audacity to Win.
Yeah. In 2008, they definitely had the technological advantage.
That changed. Yeah, it took us until 2016 to really catch up because the internet was the only thing that could harness all of this interest in politics that Trump was generating among low propensity voters.
And I rode that wave. I had like over 100,000 active donors throughout the country, I think my average donation was around 88 bucks.
But also you do, I mean, look again, I'm glad we're meeting and talking because I feel like I already know you better than what I've known for the whole time. I've been, you know, seeing you just on TV and in the news because I don't trust anything in the news.
So, I mean, that's kind of interesting right there. But, okay, first of all, where do you get your politics? Like, is it from your parents? Were they Republicans? My mother was a Southern Democrat who voted Democrat her whole life until Jimmy Carter gave away the Panama Canal.
And then, for some reason, that was the issue that turned my mother into a republic. She must be thrilled that your boy's going to take it back.
She can't wait. She's real pumped about the Mount McKinley change as well.
What do you think about that? What do you think about us becoming an empire again and just annexing places? You know, I did not see that coming. And when I say I did not see that coming, I'm going to spell it for you.
I-D-I-D-N-A-Z-I. I did not see that coming because we really shouldn't be annexing.
Should we annexing? I mean, doesn't Greenland have to actually sell it to us if they wanted to?

Isn't it their choice?

I care a lot more about whether or not we're going to annex features of the Panama Canal or Greenland

than whether or not Russia annexes Crimea.

Look, I think that you can do-

But are you for it?

Huh?

Annexing Greenland and parts of the Panama Canal?

Sure, if it's a deal that makes sense.

But we don't own them.

Well, yeah.

So you're saying-

It's a real estate transaction.

An invasion is not a real estate transaction.

Well, we don't say anything about an invasion.

Well, how else do you take something?

A real estate transaction.

So they would have to agree to it? Yeah, we could buy it. Okay, that's different than annexing.
Well, but I think- So you would agree that Denmark has to agree to it? We're not just going to take it? The people of Greenland, I think, would be the most dispositive voice. Okay, so we can go over the head of the government.
What about, can we do that here? If some other foreign country came and asked the people of this country,

do you want free blowjobs, we could just do that?

It would be a compelling offer.

Some would say the Matt Gates I'd heard about.

It would be more compelling than what a lot of people feel like they're getting from the government now.

I don't know what you've heard about me.

I don't know what you've heard about me. Remember that one? Yeah.
But a bitch can't get a dollar out of me. Well, that doesn't apply to you.
Sorry. I didn't mean to go there.
I just sang this song. Way less than Skip Bayless, I would suggest.
Oh, boy. I saw that story.
1.5 million. It's so typical though.
Isn't it? Guys who are certainly of a certain age, but they can

be young, who are just so desperate for any, usually they're married. I'm not knocking marriage,

but you know, and it's just been so long since I'd have any sort of affection or anyone touching

them or laughing at their jokes that they make such fools of themselves with, they just want

something from someone of the opposite sex that makes them feel alive again. You're so right.

And that they make such fools of themselves. They just want something from someone of the opposite sex that makes them feel alive again.
You're so right. And what is so, I think, undertold in the sugar daddy, sugar baby dynamic that we see play out pretty regularly across society now is like, who's taking advantage of who? Because what you just described, a lot of these guys that fit that archetype, they get in to some young pussy that they hadn't been in before, and they will do anything.
They'll give up their family, their house, their money. So, wait, are you saying that they're the person utilizing leverage and the power dynamic more than someone who quite literally has them by the balls? well when you put it that way congressman i mean

former congressman more than someone who quite literally has them by the balls? Well, when you put it that way, Congressman, I mean, ex-cormor Congressman. Don't demote me.
I won't. But, okay, so, like, I brought my book in.
This book you'll love, I think. Maybe not as much as my old one, since that's your pattern.
But I want to read you. This is a chapter on this subject that we're talking about.

It's very apropos for what you went through.

And I just, because it does get into economic issues.

And also, I've never done this on this show,

but I want to get the quotes right.

I have quotes from people.

And yeah, I've never brought anything on like this.

I didn't know you were allowed to bring homework.

I never have done it, but you're a little different.

I got to get this right.

It's for your benefit as much as anybody.

And it's not against you.

I'm an honest broker more than anything else, okay?

And that's why the left hates me too.

The far left really hates me.

And I welcome their hatred because I just will not carry the water of all their insanity or yours.

Well, and by the way, no one's asking to. Annexing Greenland.
Or buying it. Buying it is different.
See, again, let's just be honest. Come on, we're just guys talking here.
Those are two different things. Just look me in the eye and tell me you understand that.
They're two different things. Buying something that they agree to sell to us or just taking from another country.
That's what Hitler did. And that's Putin.
I know you guys like to be like flirting with authoritarianism. But let me ask you that question.
You're a married man now, right? Yeah. Okay.
So, and your wife is lovely. Thank you.
You did well. And okay.
So sometimes in a marriage, the couple, I've heard both sides i've heard couples say yeah i'm a big flirt but it's okay because he knows i'll never cross the line but and so that's just okay in the matter that's like they've decided that's okay to flirt or the guy does it then i've heard some marriages where it's like no that is crossing is crossing the line. Okay, I bring this up because you guys are really flirting with authoritarianism.
You know what I mean? He admires... We didn't try to throw our political prisoners in jail.
We talked about it, but we didn't actually try. Oh, you did try.
We never indicted Hillary. We never indicted our enemies.
Yeah, because they blocked it. Who blocked it? The Justice Department.
There were actually some people there at the beginning who were a little more fair-minded. It's not going to be that way in the second term, although that's the job you were up for.
I was. And honestly, I was hoping to- If you had been there in 2016, would you have indicted Hillary? Only if that's what the facts and the law commanded.
I wouldn't have done it as some get back politically because, look, that doesn't end. And what I understand is if you do that to them and they do that to us, then you don't ever get out of the cycle.
And as someone who has held some power, it's a pretty frightening concept that when you get out, the people who take power then can utilize the apparatus of the state to deprive you of your freedom. But of course you went right to what about-ism.
You didn't really answer what I... Well, I reject the premise that we flirt with authoritarianism.
Come on, man. Seriously, using every possible lever to stay in office after he lost the election plainly.
Just always being friends with Putin. He likes him.
He likes Viktor Orban. Always pining to be with Team Strongman and not really being that into our allies.
You don't think that's flirting with authoritarianism. And if you flirt with it, he also makes jokes about, you know, maybe after this term, if it's so good, we should have another one, which would be again an abrogation of the basic tenet of the constitution, two terms.
You know, that's flirting. That's flirting.
To even make a joke about it is flirting with authoritarianism. My question, like in a marriage, can you just flirt and not cross the line? Of course.
Most don't, but okay. I'm telling you, most guys, if they flirt, what they're doing is they're seeing if the girl flirts back.
If she doesn't, I was just flirting. If she does, yeah, I'll fuck her.
So you think flirtation only goes as far as your options at that moment. Eggs well put.
Yeah. For a man.
Well, yeah, it might be different for women. But I think that in Trump's case, he looks at four years of a pretty peaceful world.
You have to concede that. And when I got elected, the places where I would come in some conflict with Trump would be where he would seek powers of war that I thought were reposed in the Congress.
And now, and I had all these Democrats really eager to work with me now, no war with Iran. We should stop Trump from having that power.
But then as soon as Biden is cheerleading this war in Ukraine, all the anti-war Democrats became pro-war. There are no anti-war Democrats left.
That's an interesting point. It's off the point we're talking about a little bit.
It's a good— Well, I mean, if you're talking about— You haven't lost all your skills as the congressman. Come on, man.
If you're talking about the use of force to achieve your political goals, I think it's somewhat on top of it. Yeah.
It's not like the left doesn't do a version. I mean, they should not have been bitching about Trump is not a legitimate president.
He said, no, that was wrong. I agree.
It's very different than actually trying to stay in power. We just had January 6th.
It went off smoothly without a hitch. Places, everyone places.
Okay, the rehearsal went great. And now we do it and we go home.
That's not what have happened if you guys had lost. And you know that.
Bill, you understand. That is an asymmetry you have to address.
Okay. Let me address it.
You're right. This past week, we had a wonderful January 6th.
The last time we had a Republican president elected and Democrats did not object to the electors, do you know when the last time that was? See, this is the kind of bullshit. No, no.
Look, it was 1988. It was 1988 the last time they didn't object to Republicans.
They objected to George W. Bush winning Ohio.
Object is different than calling the Justice Department and pressuring them to do things that even his own Justice Department wouldn't do. It's different than calling the guy in Georgia and saying, fine me 11,000 votes.
It's different than going to court with all these ridiculous cases that were laughed out of every courtroom. It's different than actually sending fake electors.
Don't give me bullshit and we'll be friends. Bullshit me? No, we'll still be friends, but I don't think you're a hack.
Instead of someone who could actually have an honest conversation and admit this asymmetry exists. I don't believe it's asymmetrical at all.
When you look at the way the Democratic Party used an authoritarian bum rush to get Joe Biden out of the race and replace him with Harris? Was that the great sacrifice to the virtue of democracy and the great rejection of authoritarianism was swapping her out for him like it's some Mississippi square dance? I'm just going to end this part of our discussion by saying, you know, I think you're just looking in your eye, talking to you, not the media guy I saw. You're a lot brighter than I thought you were.
Did you think I was not bright? Yeah. And what gave you that impression? Like everything you've said and done.
No, and also because the media is, but I just never like talked to, I could say, and by the way, this is only a semi compliment because what I'm saying is, I think you're absolutely bright enough to know what I'm talking about. I understand why you have to carry the water for the other side because you are, you know, your career is just beginning.
Trump loves you. That's a good thing in this day and age.
And so I get it. I get what you can and cannot say.
And we can put that aside. Let's get back to hoard.
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I didn't even know we were on that subject.

No, because I'm sympathetic.

Were we talking about Congress or the other kind?

I want to read this because this really gets to the part about,

this was really about economics.

Okay.

Because it's an essay.

We did it on the show, the one that you don't think is so great,

but it's actually way better. Just because I said the first show was better does not mean I said the second show wasn't great.
You're so right. I'm acting like a wife.
You are. You are such a whiny bitch sometimes.
I'm usually not. You just hit a nerve.
But you're right. I'm acting like a wife who will not let it go.
And what about the remote? Matt, you never let me have the remote. And you say you don't understand.
I'm going to my mother's. Marriage.
All right. So this is about, it's about the gig economy, you know, the economy, or they also call it the remote economy.
Okay. So you can call it remote work, but what's really remote is any chance of getting health insurance.
What are Uber and Lyft, but Americanized rickshaws? It's not like it's what anyone wants to do. No one ever had a friend throw up in the backseat and said, gosh, I hope someday I get to make a career out of this.
And then there's OnlyFans, which in 2021 swelled from 12 million to 85 million users. And if you're a little behind and don't know what

OnlyFans is, don't worry. It's the side hustle your daughter is using to pay off her college

debt. It's just a platform where you can share recipes or maybe your poetry.
Yeah,

you can do that on OnlyFans, but no one does. It's women showing their vaginas to men who

are masturbating. That's what we have, a kind of a masturbation economy.
And that's my question is women have become so cynical about men and the economy is so bad for them that so much of this economy revolves around a horny guys and women who are, I don't think they really want to be on OnlyFans doing that. Would you? No.
But that's sort of where our economy has sent young women who combine with the fact that they're, for very good reason, so cynical about men that their idea is kind of, look, men are shit, so I'm going to get paid a little bit to begin with. That's only fair.
Now, here's the crux of it to me. Prostitution is a term we apply across the world.
It doesn't just apply to sex. You can prostitute yourself in business, in politics, anything.
It means doing something you hate for money. That's what it means.
It didn't sound to me like the women you were with hated it. Put it that way.
Yeah, I think there's a difference between sex for money and sex and money. And if you start to blur that line, we're going to need a lot more fucking prisons in this country.
Right. But I want to make a point about what you just read, that passage, because I think there's something that supersedes the horniness economy.
And I'm being serious about this, and it's the loneliness economy. Yes.
I think that we are in a true epidemic of loneliness. But they go together, horny and lonely.
But I think one is actually more powerful, and it's not the horny. You're correct.
There are many guys who just want the

prostitute to talk to them or the stripper. Yeah.
So I, I have a friend who, uh, she's a female creator on OnlyFans and we're having lunch and I was inquiring as to like, what, what it's like, like, what are these superficial relationships? And she described having multiple AI chatbots running at all times just to, like, interact with these people over text. And that was as economically productive as some of the on-camera activities.
And I was amazed by that. And she ascribed it to the deep loneliness that these schmucks are feeling and the fact that it created that connection.
Don't call them schmucks. They're down on their luck enough.
Don't you feel some sympathy? I think that we wallow in our own expressions of sympathy. And so I'm just on the other side of it.
Yeah. You know what? You're right.
Incels is what they, you've heard that term. It stands for involuntarily celibate, which what I used to just call, I can't get laid.
But my strategy wasn't to join a club with other fucking losers who can't get laid. My strategy, like in college when I never got laid, was to masturbate and plot.
Plot how I could get laid. Yeah, but that would have to be before the masturbation because afterwards, the brain cells wouldn't be all that firing.
I was a champion. You know what my strategy was? Go hang out with your friends who are out getting laid.
Right. And then there's going to be somebody in the group that doesn't end up with one of them.
And you could be that second option. So people want to know two basic things.
One, was he ever with an underage girl? No. Okay.
I know you said that. And if the Justice Department had any evidence, and again, people are going to attack me.
What are you doing? I'm not defending Matt Gaetz. I'm telling the truth as to what it is.
And if you don't want to hear the truth, you're the hack. The Justice Department, this was Biden's Justice Department, declined.
I can't believe Biden's Justice Department wouldn't have wanted to get you if there was something. So the fact that they said, we got nothing, tells me something that they had nothing.
Now, I don't know what anybody does behind closed doors. There's lots of scandals about lots of people, but I got to go with what, so I put that aside.
Okay. Okay.
Second thing they want to know is what was what he was doing considered prostitution. So that's what we're talking about now.
And I couldn't agree with you more. Like the Beverly Hills housewife, who really hates her husband now, but sticks around and fucks him a few times a year because she doesn't want to give up the big house.
To me, that's much more prostitution. That is textbook doing something you hate just for the money.
Same thing if he stays with her for the same reason, because he can't afford to get divorced. That's prostitution.
But, okay, I wrote down the quote. There is this, okay? Well, first, you said giving someone money, you're dating, that they didn't ask for.
That's prostitution now? So, yeah, okay, that's your exact quote. But there's this in a text.
I guess this is from your girlfriend at the time, talking about you and your wingman. The guys are a little short this week.
If it can be more of a customer appreciation week, Matt. Now, were there coupons involved? I just have to ask the tough questions.
Were there coupons? Bill, this is a text message I neither sensed nor received.

Another person is sending this message, presumably about me, to tell other women that they shouldn't

ask for money.

It sounds like the person who sent that message really wanted to be the great recipient of

any generosity and didn't want her friends to also be the recipient of that generosity.

You're telling me that makes me some sort of criminal?

I didn't send this message.

I didn't receive this message.

I'm referenced in it because one woman is telling other women, hey, there's no generosity for you.

So the phrase customer appreciation week, you never knew that before you saw it in this text?

Okay, what about this one?

Add to cart. No, I'm joking.
It does not, it does not say that. Drive by.
There's something about something was just a drive by. What's a drive by? I don't know.
Was that a message I sent? I don't know. I was stoned when I wrote this.
Okay. But there was also, they said you met women on Seeking Arrangements and Sugar Dating.

I have never had a dating profile on any website, on any dating app.

When this came out— Why does it say that in this story?

And by the way, the reason I can tell you it's false is when the media was reporting that I was meeting women on Seeking Arrangements,

no less than Seeking Arrangements came out with a statement that said Matt Gaetz has never been on our site. He's never had a profile here.
He has never met any women on our site. So if Seeking Arrangements themselves are saying this is false, I have to combat these things in the media that are not true.
And nobody loses their reporter license for saying stuff that's false. It's just the information ecosystem.
Well, here's what I'm going to say to that. One, I never read that in the stories about you.
You just told me, wait, which absolutely could be because they left it out because they do it all the time. It's one of my biggest complaints about the media is that I never, you know, you say you're not lying.
Well, you know what? You can also lie by omission. You cherry pick both sides do it.
You, I have to read both sides to feel like I have any knowledge of anything. And that's just sucks except for my show, which is always even handed.
Um, okay. So I didn't know that.
So that's either because the media lied to me or somebody in the internet, if they're going to say that there's contradictory information, you're going to look bad. But I assume you wouldn't say that.
I'm willing to live by those terms. If it couldn't be backed up.
Okay. Also, this is in your defense.
This is another thing from an article, again, in, I think, the Washington Post. The committee found two women, 27 and 25, who did not consider the relationships transactional.
So that's a direct quote. Again, hacks.
I'm just reading what I read. Did you read that one? I did.
I did. Sounded scandalous.
Me dating a 25-year-old woman and a 27-year-old woman and having a non-transactional relationship. Look who you're talking to.
You don't know the half of it. Okay.
So this is an interesting quote. The committee, this is the ethics committee, typically refrains from releasing the findings after a member's resignation.
I did not know that until I read it in the article. The committee typically refrains from releasing the findings if you've quit already.
So why did they make an exception for you? What is your, you must have bitterness about that. Well, I don't actually, because I know in Washington.
Oh, come on. Just admit that.
No, everything goes out in Washington anyway. If you think that this document wasn't going to be released in one form or the other, then you don't understand how the leak ecosystem works in that place.
Yeah, sure. Everything leaks.
So other people were more worked up about that than I was, to be honest. I have a lot of enemies on the Republican side, more so than most Republican members, because I killed the golden goose.
Kevin McCarthy raised a billion dollars in special interest money and distributed that among a couple hundred Republicans. That makes you a lot of fucking friends.
And the ethics committee is one of only three committees in the whole Congress that the speaker appoints directly. It doesn't go through the steering committee

process. Ethics, rules, and intelligence.
And so everybody on the ethics committee were Kevin McCarthy's asshole buddies, one of whom who voted to release it, the Republicans, was donating to my primary opponent. So I wasn't exactly being judged by some non-biased arbiter.
These were people with an axe to grind against me.

Well,

yeah.

That's life. judged by some non-biased arbiter.
These were people with an axe to grind against me.

Well, yeah.

That's life.

Yeah. I mean, it's hard to like, Kevin McCarthy, I really want to defend that guy.
I mean,

I always thought he was a huge asshole and not that bright. Did you? You thought, see, because I actually always found him to be a gregarious person.
I don't know. If he was here talking to me, I'd have a different opinion, too.
I bet you'd like him. Yeah, but I'd—okay.
But I feel like he's much more of a square than you are. Well, that would encompass a lot of people, I think.
You know— But where you get me wrong, man, where I took exception with your— and I was always a huge fan of yours because when I got to like, you used to always have Joe Scarborough on. And Joe Scarborough was my congressman.
Yeah, yeah. I was a huge Joe Scarborough fan.
We were really close, even when I was like 12, 14 years old. And so I would be able to stay up late at night and watch content that otherwise would have been deemed too irreverent

for me because Joe Scarborough was on. And then that created a permission structure for me to continue to watch your show because, oh, well, Joe has been on that show.
It can't be too bad for me to watch. So, uh, he, uh, yeah, was, was our guy for a long time.
I still like him. I mean, you guys went apeshit

when he like went to Mar-a-Lago

like two days after

I think that's great, by the way. Yeah, of course you do because he's, look, I mean, the criticism was that he was kissing the ring.
I think two days after the election was a little early, it did give that signal. Like, give it a week, you know, Joe.
Okay. But I like Joe.
You know, my problem with people who like take media jobs is that, you know, they start out very often on MSNBC, this happens. They start out as the conservative.
Of course, on MSNBC, you can be only so conservative. They don't really have like your type that wouldn't be on it.
But they have the Nicole Wallaces and the people, Michael Steele, the people, usually they hate Trump. It's the country club conservatives, not the hunting club conservatives.
It's the non, it's the anybody but Trump conservatives. Right.
Which is not, doesn't that look, I'm an everybody, anybody but Trump guy too, but like it doesn't represent the country or the party. So it's bullshit.
But OK, so they start out as that. But they're also conservative.
And Nicole Wallace was like Bush's like, yeah. Oh, she was out there cheerleading the Iraq war.
Right. And the longer they're there and the more time they see MSNBC on the paycheck, the more they become not just anti-Trump, but now they're just totally in league with, and I said, you know, look, I don't want people to become more conservative generally, but when you're, looks to me like the paycheck is dictating your politics, I do have a problem with it.
Well, they're enslaved by their audience because they see what, what turns off their audience, what turns on their audience, and that becomes the thing that turns them on as well. But even when we say conservative, liberal, right, left, we are in a time of realignment right now.
I think unlike any other time you've been in the media, who is the pro-war party? Who is the pro-free speech party?

Who is the pro-free trade party?

Who's the stick-up-their-ass party?

Right.

That's the biggest one in my world.

Yeah.

Because, you know, the stuff that used to get laughs

because it was the moral majority doing it,

stick-up-their-ass stuff.

Yeah.

You know, Pat Robertson.

Oh.

Who's the other?

Jerry Falwell.

This was your thing.

All those purple Teletubbies, you know, are gay. Well, the Clinton thing.
And then who became the stick up their ass people? Yeah, the left. The left.
Well, I mean, you're who taught me about oral sex. Because the Clinton.
You're welcome, Mrs. Gates.
The whole Clinton-Ken Starr report really put your critique of the stick-in-the-mud, stick-up-your-ass contingent of politics in the forefront. But, like, right now, there are times I see the political landscape where I have more in common with the populist leftists than I do the centrists in my own party.

On matters of government surveillance,

I team up with Ilhan Omar

more than I team up with the Republicans

on the Intelligence Committee.

On war powers...

You're talking about Ilhan Omar?

Ilhan Omar, yeah.

Oh, you said it funny.

Well, she's...

Yeah, you'd be surprised how often...

Ilhan Omar.

Ilhan. I don't like a...
Oh, is that how... am I saying it wrong? Yeah, it's Ilhan.
My bad. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry to the prophet. Peace and blessings upon him.
I meant no disrespect. That's getting out of hand.
Yeah, I would probably cut that. But I think, I don't know where that's going to lead you, bro, but it could be dicey.
No, I mean, I've been down that road before. Do you, yeah.
I have. That was your big thing.
You have to be, I mean, Zuckerberg just made a big deal about free speech and I'm behind him on it because I think he's right. He's doing a kind of a mea culpa.
Like we fact check too much. And look, is there a lot of misinformation? Yeah, but also misinformation has become like a code word for just stuff we don't like.
you know, COVID started in a lot of misinformation yeah but also misinformation has become like a code word for just stuff we don't like you know covid started in a lab well we just don't think that should be out there so that's me well it wasn't misinformation shit like that not to tell you it's true like this like when people were posting the true side effects of some of these vaccines you had folks in the white house pressuring social media platforms to get that taken down. And it wasn't even false, but it was just derogatory to the narrative that they were trying to spin at the time.
That should not be allowed. And I think the more you decentralize that away from the fact checker model to the community notes model, the more you make it durable to that type of government influence.
Yeah. So if you were in the Justice Department, like what would be your number one? Number one? Yeah, what would be the- Would be defang the weaponization.
Stop the whole, they go after us. I really mean that.
Because if I'd have gone in there and done that stuff.

You really think the FBI is that partisan? Because I always thought of the FBI as mostly Republicans, mostly squares, guys who iron their underwear, you know, real straight arrows. The idea that it's infiltrated with all these like super radical left wing types who are out to get Trump.
You don't think they had

a reason with all the communications that were unprecedented between Trump and Russia. You don't think they had a reason to start that Operation Crossfire investigation.
I mean, his fucking campaign manager, Manafort, was completely in bed with Russians. Michael Flynn and the comrade, all these people in the administration who had all these discussions with Russians, Russians, Russians.
And then just always, Russians, we don't know any Russians. They picture him with like eight Russians.
It sort of feels silly to talk about. It at least merited an investigation.
It feels

silly to talk about now that Trump was some asset of Putin when it was only Trump in the White House where Putin did invade another country. But in terms of when the investigation turned illegitimate, like, okay, I guess you have reasonable suspicion around anything.
But once they were applying for surveillance based on information that the FBI already knew was coming from Russian intelligence subsources, that's when they jumped the shark for me.

They were signing Pfizer renewals when they knew that Steele was relying on people who were Russian intelligence people.

There was a report. Was that the Horowitz report or was that the Durham report? That was Horowitz.
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Legends with a Z.com is legendary fun. Okay, one of them was about the FBI, and it did find errors.
Yes, it did. Absolutely.
No, no, no.

And like, doesn't it bother you when an FBI lawyer is pledging fidelity to the resistance

while changing an email? That doesn't mean that there wasn't something there also. I mean,

to go back to politically incorrect days, OJ Simpson did kill his ex-wife and the police were

also corrupt. Sometimes both things can be true.
Do you think they framed him? Like, do you think OJ? Yeah. you think they yeah they took active steps to frame no i don't that's what i'm saying i'm saying they were they had their own problems admittedly yes and that's and that's the that's the analogy with the fbi they did there were problems and the fisa thing was the most glaring of those errors but you realize but also he was having contacts just to say publicly r, if you're listening, I mean, nobody ever did that.
George Stephanopoulos said, you know, if a foreign power sent you intel, oh, well, I think you should look at it. No, you shouldn't.
You should go to the FBI and say a country who is not called America is trying to influence our elections. That's what you do.
You go to the FBI. You don't look at it.
You know what? That would be nice. But Bill, as everything else in our world has become globalized, trade information, our elections have become globalized too.
And the notion that the way we're going to be resilient to that is tattling to the FBI every time, it may work. But when I see the way these global corporations that rely on sovereign wealth funds of other company countries are pouring cash into super funds for Democrats and Republicans, it's like, Oh, Oh, but Don Jr.
Met with some lady in Trump tower. There is such a foreign influence factor in our elections.
Now it is, it's such's anything that's going to stop it. Especially on your side.
Oh, come on, man. You don't think that the Chinese were funding the whole center at Penn.
Manafort was trading, holding information with a guy in the GRU. The Democrats didn't do that.
Paul Manafort, despite a lofty title, was a very bit player in what was going on with Trump. How do you know that? Because he had one specific task.
We were dealing with a faithless electors problem at the Republican convention where we would win a state and then Ted Cruz was effective at using the party apparatus to substitute his delegates for Trump's delegates. And it wasn't like we'd had a recent convention fight.
And one of the only guys around from the 80s that ever planned for a convention fight was Paul Manafort. So he demands this lofty title, then he works the convention problem, and at the same time is trying to showcase to the oligarchs on whatever side in Russia, Ukraine, that he was this made guy in Trump world.
And that was messy and should not have happened. But I think, talk about whataboutism, to say that that's a parallel to the tens of millions of dollars that flow into our elections from foreign sovereign wealth funds through U.S.
companies and super PACs. Yeah, that's both sides.
It is both sides. Based on a ruling from a Republican Supreme Court.
I think the ruling in Citizens United was wrong. Well, it's great to meet you.
I'm having a good time with you. I'm glad, man.
I'm glad. You don't smoke pot anymore, right? I won't with you.
It would mess with all the molly I took on the way here. Weren't you one of the most forthright ones to want to put forward legalization for pot laws? I'm very pro marijuana reform i wrote florida's first second and third marijuana laws just failed there well the the vote on going from medical to adult use now in florida you have to go it did it was on the ballot it just well it didn't fail how could fucking nutty crazy bath salt alligator crazy, bath salt alligator Florida not be legal for pot? Yeah, we don't allow the homeless to degrade infrastructure to the point where it hurts the firefighters.
Different issue. Different issue.
And the liberals have completely fucked up that issue. It's in my brilliant special that's on probably now or just was.
Is anybody else seeing this? I talk liberal versus woke as far as homeless goes no i mean that the trust me the liberals have a lot to answer for and i call them out on all of it which again is why they don't like me and i don't give a fuck you talk a lot you know what i wonder if you give a fuck because you don't about it a lot i do you advertise i do it affects you by talking about it no because don't even do this. I need you as a libertarian.
No, all I'm doing is reminding people of my brand. My brand is almost unique, not completely, but I'm glad that everybody is so in their echo chamber because it leaves this big space in the middle for someone who will do that.
People will watch this. If they watch the whole thing, they'll go, wow, what an honest conversation.
Like, not like anyone I've ever seen with any politician. Like, those were just two guys talking.
And Bill was open. He didn't fucking hate that guy.
He might. But it wasn't about politics.
It doesn't even bother me. And then we got over it just like a married couple does.
And then we just had a real discussion. And then you kept nagging me about about it just like a married couple.
And when I think you're full of shit about stuff on your side, I call you out on that. And I'm also admitting, and I hope you are, I think I do it more than you, when my side is wrong and they are wrong a lot.
And that's why they lost this election. And I tell them every day, you're just digging the hole deeper.
Anybody who can't point out where their side is wrong is just a vessel through which others operate. Well, where is your side most wrong? My side's wrong on marijuana reform.
My side is wrong on some elements of climate change. My side is wrong when they try to extend the surveillance state at any cost.
My side is wrong when they try to go and build Jeffersonian democracies

out of sand and blood and Arab militias in the Middle East

and convert every Central Asian cave.

I've got to give that to Trump.

He really doesn't like war.

No, he really doesn't.

And that's not a bad thing.

It's ironic.

Who was the last president who really didn't like war?

Jimmy Carter, the one they just buried. He never fired a shot.
It's funny that they have that in common, isn't it? It is. Two guys who have nothing else in common.
And it's not that Trump doesn't have militaristic tendencies. Like, I don't think he has any problem with torture or a really powerful, strong military.
But right now, like, one of the reasons we should be anti-war is because I'm not sure we would win very many of them. And that's not a criticism of the amazing men and women in the military, but the shit we build doesn't work.
I was on the Armed Services Committee for eight years, and I saw the way what we spend money on is driven by what general is leaving to get what board seat or what contract with Raytheon, Lockheed, L3. We've allowed all this consolidation in the defense.
Okay. The F-35.
I loved it when Musk went after the F-35. I had said on my show two days earlier, I said, you know, they're talking about cutting shit.
Let's see what happens when they go after the Pentagon. And then he did it two days later.
I was like, okay, you know what? I'm not pre-hating anything you guys are going to do.

Not pre-hating.

Well, and Hegseth is uniquely critical of those things because these millennials who went and fought these wars and believed they were righteous and meaningful, who came more to the anti-war side.

Tucker was a big pro-war guy, came to an anti-war guy. Hegseth.
He's just cray now. Come on.
Come on, bro. Come on.
The Moscow stuff, defending Syria, defending Assad. I mean, you've got to be kidding.
But Hegseth, he looks like he doesn't have a good time. Let's get him over here.
Yeah, he'd be a good hang. I bet he would.
Yeah. What? Don't get me started on the accusations against Hegseth because they are so ridiculous.
I want to get back to the point about the military spending. He seems like a guy who does not know how to treat women.
Bill, you're telling me. You treat him nice.
You take him to Broadway shows. You're telling me some.
You do the and money thing, which is great. Some lonely housewife, fucks Pete Hegseth in a hotel, then has to explain something to her husband the next day, alleges rape.
I just, I can't on that. But back to the military spending, the F-35 costs $100 million a copy.
You know what percentage of them are fully operationally capable today? 29%. They don't work in the rain.
If something costs $100 million, it should definitely work more than 29% of the time. But also the great thing Musk said was they're obsolete.
We're in the age of drones, assholes. We're in the age of drones.
Why are you building fighter planes?

If you guys can go in and really do that kind of shit, and wherever this country is really constipated, just Roto-Rooter this kind of shit away, I will have great respect for it. I hope we achieve that.
When I was sitting around Mar-a-Lago with Elon talking about how we were going to do that.

Name dropper.

Elon says the way that we save the military and win the future wars is by designing a mechanism to get drone operators laid. because the whole culture of the Air Force is the like fighter pilot, you know, macho.

Yeah, the Navy Top Gun.

And so like if you had that same archetype for the 240 pound guy who like lives in his mom's basement but knows how to operate a drone if we can get that guy some pussy we are gonna smoke china okay well we've got the only fan situation i feel there's a situation. I feel like there's a way to combine the OnlyFans ladies with the drone operators and make this happen.
Because there's really nothing more pathetic. For America.
I mean, I'm not a technological guy. So, like, I wouldn't even know how to get on OnlyFans.
I mean, I don't really know how to get on, you know, I don't, I'm chachi, BT.

I just not, I'm just a bit different.

You don't use AI?

No, I'm just not.

I'm just of a different generation.

Okay.

I'm old school.

Like, you know, pad and pad.

Sorry.

That's who I am.

But, um, what I've read about OnlyFans is just, it's like, I can't believe what I'm reading.

That these guys must know that this girl is not really their girlfriend and doesn't really give a shit about them.

And very often isn't even that girl.

It's something that that these guys must know that this girl is not really their girlfriend and doesn't really give a shit about them and very often isn't even that girl it's some fat guy in the philippines some chat bot that's running well it's a they call them chatters like that's the person who's communicating the fact that they willingly willingly convince themselves that this is some sort of actual relationship where they're like tipping them by the minute you know another five minutes and it just for the chat sometimes just and of course you're not they're in the room with them it's not a you're not fucking them in any way the fact that so many millions of men are satisfied that this is some sort of actual relationship. This generation, somebody told me a scary story about, she was telling me about her younger sister who's like 17 and has a boyfriend for the first time.
And they were like, go for dinner. No.
The kids just want to be on the phone together all the time, FaceTiming. And when the girl goes to sleep at night, she leaves the phone on FaceTime all night.
And so does the boyfriend. And they're sleeping together virtually with the phone on all night.
And I said, do you have to pay for this? And she said, you know, they made a big mistake when they gave these kids unlimited data. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, cause that shit wouldn't have flown in my day because your parents would have been like, you are on your roaming minutes. You have kids yet? I've got sort of an adopted son.
Oh, yeah. Okay.
How old? Right now, he's 24, 23 years old. A little past this.
But what do you make of a generation that is doing that, that can't even turn off

the phone when they go to sleep? I think it's worse than that. I've been reading the literature on the people who get the AI, boyfriend or girlfriend, that they know is AI, that they know is not an actual human.
And they did these studies. And when you allow the person to interact with that bot and then you cut off the bot, they have sincere feelings of remorse over a breakup with a being that never existed.
It's like Manti-Teo shit. I mean, it's not that different than OnlyFans where the girl isn't really, really there.
But you're right. That's a great point, actually.
It is one small level past. Right.
But it's basically- Are we getting that, though? Aren't there going to be the AI relationships that- I don't know. Define human romance? I'm so glad I'm in the generation I'm in, really.
Even being almost 69 years old, which obviously has its bad parts, like you're not going to be around this long, I still would not trade it. I mean, I sure wouldn't want to be what these kids are going through.
I mean, and their sort of virtual existence. So like when we, my generation, you met people- You're Gen X or you're Millennial? I'm like the first Millennial.
I'm not Xennial. You typically met people at bars, but this generation doesn't even really drink that much.
Even when they're at bars, they're on their phone. Yes.
You couldn't spend that much time on your phone because you were having to hit the button three times to get to the right letter to send a message. But where did your generation, where did you typically go to meet a romantic partner? What was that typical hunting experience for you? Okay.
Well, you know, I mean, I was just so bereft of knowledge. I would love it if it was here.
I mean, no, I mean, I was a late bloomer. I mean, it's really good I never got married because, like, I needed time to catch up to what a loser I was when I was.
I had one girlfriend in high high school and when she dumped me and it was like the worst thing that still in my life ever happened i was like like a wreck for a year uh and then so she'd break up with you over was it another guy no i was just being a dick i was just being complacent you know what it was i got bored like we all will do to a certain degree at all times and it it's just how you handle it. And I handled it because it was the first time like a dick.
Um, so, uh, then I went to Cornell, which had, it was like the worst possible atmosphere to ever try to get laid. It was like the Ivy leagues had just started even admitting girls.
So it was like a five to one ratio. And I didn't know how to get laid.
So it was just like the Cornell atmosphere had a whole lot else going on in the town. You can go tap into Cornell is a shit place to go to school.
Anyway, you get a great education, but it's cold and competitive. It's just, it's just a bad vibe up there really is.
I never went back. Um, so that was terrible.
Then when I finally got out, then I went and moved to New York City. And being poor and a pot dealer trying to be a comedian, also not a great formula to get laid in New York.
Or being a drug dealer wasn't a good formula to get laid. Not pot.
Or I was selling small amounts to guys at the club and the band. but when I came out here at 27, it was like, oh, I always say,

this town sucked my cock on the first date.

I just loved it from the beginning.

And I got along better with the girls.

And I had a little, little game.

And then I just, yeah, you would go to bars.

That's what it was.

And I was still such a loser.

I remember I had a friend who I didn't really like that much, but he was good at talking to girls. That's really one of the key signs of a loser.
You've got to have a guy, a wingman. Oh, I was going to mention this guy, Joel Greenberg.
I'm very curious. He comes up in the articles.
And I saw Megyn Kelly talking again. I had not heard this because again, you only get one half of the story.
First of all, what was your relationship with him? He sounds like you guys are asshole buddies. It was someone I deeply regret having spent any time with, but he was in politics in central florida uh he became a social acquaintance of mine.
And he had a vision on crypto and he had a vision on all these different things. He was the tax collector.
He became the first tax collector in the country to take crypto. So I was sort of enamored with the cutting edge nature of how he was going about things.
And what I sort of learned through this is if you're around— He's in jail. He's in jail.
And before anything would be—one of the things he's in jail for is lying about another person, about having sexual contact with someone who was underage. But what I learned is if you're around people and they're doing stuff, and even if you're not doing that stuff, if you're the most famous person or you're the most powerful person, if shit breaks bad, then everybody's going to point the finger at you.
And that's what happened with Joel Greenberg. By the way, if the way I go down is drinking with Bill Maher at Club Random, I'm comfortable with that.
Ginger, if you can hear this, you should go. Well, you just made up for that gaffe at the beginning.
That's a very sweet thing to say. I appreciate it.
No, you're one of these boomer, not boomer, you're Gen X, right? Yeah, I'm a boomer. You're a boomer? Gen X.
Oh, thank you. That is so kind of you.
No, I'm totally boomer. There's a whole echelon of you guys who became cult heroes to my generation.

It was like you, Louis Black, Norm MacDonald, rest his soul, one of the funniest people to ever live. It was the calling out of the mores of the time that developed a really sincere following.
Yeah.

No, I love it when I have fans in every generation,

but especially as it gets younger.

Is it your liberal fans are older and your conservative fans are younger would be my guess?

Yeah, probably.

I never looked into it that much,

but that's probably what it is.

But I also, you know, I hear a lot about, you know,

the guys on the golf course love you. Because, again, I'm not, I never have been afraid to like speak truth about what's going on in the left and what's going on in the left.
You know, I get it. I do not like Trump, but I never hate anybody who votes for him.
I totally get it. I get why people go, you know.
Would you agree that like the two greatest politicians, well, Clinton might have fit in there, but Obama and Trump. Oh, absolutely.
Right. And I do believe.
As a politician, he's non-paroitte. But so is Hitler.
As a politician, I'm not saying he's Hitler, he's not. Well, you're also not saying Obama's Hitler.
You're making a point. Exactly.
But Trump, you know, let me just be clear, because this is a thing that people do say. Trump is not Hitler.
Hitler fought the Russians. Okay.
I'm thinking now that maybe your days as a party animal connected you more with who the american people really are. Is that a fair statement? Look, I was never a holier-than-thou politician.
I never— We know that. Yeah, but you know what? Some people who had personal foibles and follies would then go and be in great moral judgment of others.
And for whatever problems I've had in my life, I've never tried to represent that I'm a better person than my constituents. I just try to be a vessel for them.
I think you're more like them. I mean, I don't consider you, especially having talked to you now, like there are some dirtbags in your party.
I mean, George Santos, give me a break.

I mean.

Oh, George.

What?

Every generation gets the Princess Diana they're deserved.

And ours was George Santos, taken from us too early.

Okay, well, that's not really a good analogy.

You laughed.

Well, Princess Diana, was she a charlatan?

No, it's a joke.

I have a very funny one, too.

Okay, so, but then, like, who, Lauren Boebert? She's a patriot. Lauren Boebert's terrific.
Okay, but she gives handjobs during musicals. So what? I agree.
So, well, you're against handjobs now? You were taking girls to musicals. Well, none that I had give me handjobs, but I would have turned one down.
You know, that's what they my joke was like, they said, well, Matt Gaetz, he took prostitutes to musicals. I'm like, really? If you're taking a girl to a musical, isn't that payment in itself? By the way, think about how fantastical that sounds, that I was bringing prostitutes to Broadway shows.
They were my dates. Right.
I know what I'm saying. That is not a, see, there's a, I don't think people know what a prostitute is.
A prostitute is someone, first of all, who has a pimp, okay, who gets hit with a car antenna, you know, who gives blowjobs behind dumpsters. That's a prostitute.
And of course there's high end, but, you know, but they don't get taken get taken to Broadway shows, was my point. Well, let me offer a defense of some of the people that you've criticized.
I serve with a lot of congressmen and women who live perfect family lives, never looked the other way, never done anything other than live a purpose-driven holy life. And they get that congressional pin on and they go and sell out the country.
And they vote for whoever gives them money and they vote for whatever lobbyists give them attention. And then there are people who are flawed and irreverent and have tough moments that are caught on TV, but they sincerely do what they think is best for the country.
And that's why I had friendships in Congress that a lot of people wouldn't realize.

I was friends with Ilhan Omar.

She and her husband and my wife and I have had dinner together and spent social time together.

I would not have guessed that. Right.

And you know why?

Because while I disagree with her strongly on matters of policy, and she would say the same of me, I at least knew she fucking believed it.

Okay?

And say what you want about AOC.

She believes what she says.

And for, like, way more than half of them up there, they don't even believe what they're saying.

They are just reading scripts that are written, produced by others.

And I resent that more than a substantive disagreement. I did so.
Well, it's been a pleasure before I evacuate to talk to you. I sincerely hope that- It really has.
It's been a pleasure. One more beef, man, I had.
You've called me a bully more than once on your show. No, I think what we did was we showed you a picture of you and said, he always looks like he has a look on his face like, eat it, nerd.
Yeah, but I am the nerd. I went to debate camp.
First of all, you look different in person. More like a nerd? No less.
More normal. Yeah.
Well, that always bothered me about your coverage of me because— I mean, you've seen the way they do you on Saturday Night Live? I know. I mean, that's what they think you look like? It doesn't—that's not what you look like to me right now, looking at you in person.
Maybe it is on TV or, you know, people just present differently on TV sometimes. I'm a weird-looking guy.
But you're not. Oh.
That's the thing. You're not.
But I was expecting one one really the molly must be kicking in right now

all right well thank you for coming here i appreciate it you know we should do real time

i would love to would you do it yeah if you know i would you do a panel i uh i got i got no fear of

your panel your audience but but sometimes sometime you got to do uh do my podcast too if you i will

all right i got a podcast coming up and would love to have you i appreciate it your panel, your audience, but sometime you've got to do my podcast, too. I will.
All right.

I've got a podcast coming up.

I would love to have you, brother.

I appreciate it.

Thanks, man.

I've got a podcast. You mentioned your podcast.

It's so new it doesn't have a name?

Over the Line with Mac Gates is going to be the name.

Oh, Over the Line.

I will be on it.

Thank you.

All right.

Thank you.

Appreciate it. Thank you.
All right. Thank you.
Appreciate it.

See you.

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