Sam Harris | Club Random with Bill Maher

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Speaker 1 Hey, what's up, Flies? This is David Spade, Dana Carvey. Look at, I know we never actually left, but I'll just say it.
We are back with another season of Fly on the Wall.

Speaker 1 Every episode, including ones with guests, will now be on video. Every Thursday, you'll hear us and see us chatting with big-name celebrities.
And every Monday, you're stuck with just me and Dana.

Speaker 1 We react to news, what's trending, viral clips. Follow and listen to Fly on the Wall everywhere you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 This episode of Club Random was filmed prior to the devastating fires in Southern California.

Speaker 1 Electron works. You're thinking so logically.
Is that Sam?

Speaker 1 This is how he won everything.

Speaker 1 He ran the table.

Speaker 1 Don't put that on the poster. I can put up with any

Speaker 1 Sam Harris raves.

Speaker 1 You all tucked away? Sam?

Speaker 1 You here? How's it going, Bill Bill Maher.

Speaker 1 What did you expect it, Bill Maher says? How are you?

Speaker 1 Oh, look, we're wearing the same thing. Are we? That's embarrassing.
Was your mate in China?

Speaker 1 Why? Is it ever been? Yeah,

Speaker 1 I'm amazed at the brands that do not take the step to make their clothing in America

Speaker 1 when they're charging many hundreds of dollars for something that costs $14 in China. Well, why would you if your margin could be larger, no matter what it was? I would think it would,

Speaker 1 I mean, it would, it would make consumers feel good, at least in America. Well, I mean, the whole fashion industry is

Speaker 1 the most made-up industry in the world. I mean, all you have to do is walk in any department store or clothing store, and it says, you know, 80% off from the number you made up exactly with.

Speaker 1 Yes, which you've never seen, yeah.

Speaker 1 We made up a number. We said it cost $2,000, and now we're selling it for $250,000.
What do you think about that?

Speaker 1 And people of all for it.

Speaker 1 I mean, just if everyone. This podcast is 80% off.

Speaker 1 I wish.

Speaker 1 If everyone really was as altruistic and good a person as they say,

Speaker 1 the whole industry would go away.

Speaker 1 I mean, every penny we spend on fashion would really, in a more altruistic world, if we're just going to be completely elemotenary about everything, would just go to the poor who have

Speaker 1 can't afford to change styles every year. Like the collars get big, the collars get small.

Speaker 1 All they do is like, there's only so many variations on clothes.

Speaker 1 Even when you see movies that

Speaker 1 are 10,000 on another planet, they're basically wearing the same thing.

Speaker 1 They're just slight variations in the cut. Although there are periods in history, I mean, if you look back on photos of yourself,

Speaker 1 there were decades where it's just what the hell was happening. There was some brain virus that translated into bad style from hair.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 it's incredible. That's really.

Speaker 1 And also, I would say that

Speaker 1 the cut of things

Speaker 1 from

Speaker 1 previous centuries is so much more impressive often than today.

Speaker 1 Not necessarily the FOPs of the

Speaker 1 court of King Louis. Wearing a powdered wig is where I draw the line.
The wig. And anytime they

Speaker 1 somehow itoliate their faith, you know, like somehow that geisha girls, this extreme whiteness, I don't get, I've never got that.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 the cut on the jackets is fantastic in some of this. Well, the Nazis, too.
The Nazis are the same. The Nazis were very sharp dressers.
Yeah. I mean, those.

Speaker 1 Was that Hugo Boss, or is that just a meme in my

Speaker 1 meme in my head? It was Hugo Boss. He was the Volkswagen of Clothing.

Speaker 1 Actually, we need a list of the brands that went all in on the Third Reich because, I mean, there's some great brands like Mercedes, Volkswagen, and Brown. Oh, and also the,

Speaker 1 I think

Speaker 1 Krupps, like all these German brands were. And

Speaker 1 who was the Luftwaffe?

Speaker 1 Messerschmitt

Speaker 1 was the name of the German fighter plane, but I think that was also a company or somebody.

Speaker 1 It's amazing the way it wasn't a deal-breaker

Speaker 1 for the company to go away.

Speaker 1 I mean, there were...

Speaker 1 Did you ever see the documentary Shoah? The nine-hour Holocaust documentary that

Speaker 1 was.

Speaker 1 I did not, but I certainly was aware of it.

Speaker 1 You've got nine hours left in the day in your day.

Speaker 1 After this podcast. I seem to remember there being a joke in my act about it.

Speaker 1 Well, it is, it's been some years since I've watched it, but it is well worth watching. But one of the amazing documents they

Speaker 1 unveil

Speaker 1 in this documentary, first of all, it's all modern footage, all shot in the 80s. There's no night and fog,

Speaker 1 actual Holocaust footage. It's all footage from when the documentary was shot interviewing survivors and SS guards who would

Speaker 1 not archival footage. No, there's no bodies in pits or crematoria or any of that.
It's just

Speaker 1 shot in the 80s. But

Speaker 1 they find the competitive bids for the gassing vans that were designed

Speaker 1 to gas.

Speaker 1 Before there was the concentration camps and the crematoria,

Speaker 1 they had the bright idea of

Speaker 1 creating vans where the exhaust system doesn't exit but enters the cargo space of the van.

Speaker 1 And they got competitive bids from,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 forgive me if you get a lawsuit, but I think Mercedes was one of these companies

Speaker 1 where, and they have these euphemisms just in the in the bid, it's like we understand that the cargo has a tendency to rush to the back when the doors close, it has a tendency to rush to the back of the van, right?

Speaker 1 It was just

Speaker 1 yeah, and these and these brands still exist. It's quite amazing.

Speaker 1 What's amazing is humans

Speaker 1 and just how awful they are. Are you familiar with the Wannesee conference? Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Did you, so have you seen

Speaker 1 it's conspiracy, the Kenneth Branagh film? I don't think it's called that, but it may be.

Speaker 1 I know what you're talking about, and I saw it years ago. It was an HBO movie, right? That's right.
It's based on the actual transcript.

Speaker 1 Yes, it's a conference, for people who don't know, that took place in Wannassee, which is a suburb of Berlin, on my birthday, although I wasn't wasn't born yet, January 20th, 1942.

Speaker 1 And it's just,

Speaker 1 it's the banality of evil. Yeah.
And with a little top spin, it's kind of, it's not just banality. I mean, it's like Heydrich was like legitimately evil.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's like all evil, but the way they perfunctorily talk about, I mean, this thing you mentioned about the cargo has a tendency to rush.

Speaker 1 You know, that the ability for humans to forget that the other guy is also a human is just unbelievable to me. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 That, you know, you're just two feet away from a guy who you could be suffering like that, but there's zero empathy. It's just not, I mean, some humans, of course, do have it, thank God, but

Speaker 1 not, but many

Speaker 1 just do not. Or they even enjoy,

Speaker 1 obviously, sadistically, other people suffering in a way that they can't even imagine themselves doing it.

Speaker 1 It's just amazing, humans. It is amazing that there are.

Speaker 1 I mean, so there, I think there is, I think evil is a word we should still use, right? It's not all finale, right?

Speaker 1 I mean, there's like, there's like, there's real, there's real sadism, there's real pleasure taken at the suffering of others, but then there's just

Speaker 1 then the people who are imagining that they're doing something good.

Speaker 1 They're not actually even thinking about the suffering they're causing, and yet they're part of the machinery that

Speaker 1 produces the evil. Well, I mean, the people, for example,

Speaker 1 not to pick on any

Speaker 1 of our friends, people, any of our fellow podcasters who already hate us. No, no, I'm talking about the people who flew planes into the buildings on 9-11, for example.
Right.

Speaker 1 You know, you've talked about it.

Speaker 1 I have also.

Speaker 1 I'm sure not as eloquently, but they certainly thought they were doing the right thing. I seem to remember you thought they were courageous.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 1 I walked into that one, didn't I?

Speaker 1 Which they were.

Speaker 1 Was it the good people at ABC who didn't like that? Yeah, the good people of America thought it was a little too early to make that point.

Speaker 1 If hitting the wall at 400 miles an hour doesn't entail some courage. I'm not sure what does.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the only thing that slightly undercuts that is I've heard, I don't know if it's true. Somebody I'm sure will be out there vetting it, that

Speaker 1 three of the four did not know they were on a suicide mission, that they thought they were just hijacking a plane.

Speaker 1 And then when the lead dude was like, all right, comrades, take off your clothes, because you know you have to die naked or some shit like that. And they were like, okay, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 It's a what comes in. Can I call my agent?

Speaker 1 A what mission? Did you say? I'm sorry. This is a.

Speaker 1 This has been a, I can see Woody Allen or that. There's been a mistake of some sort.
I don't mean to be be facetious

Speaker 1 or didactic, but I need to land and my baggage went different. I'm actually better at landing the plane.

Speaker 1 But yeah, that's, you know, they think they're actually doing good.

Speaker 1 That's the scary part that I think we both see in religion is that people do evil things and are encouraged to do evil things and do them in great numbers that there's nothing else that that really is the same kind of motivator that we've ever seen in human history, right?

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, the thing that people are just simply not tracking is that

Speaker 1 once you absorb that worldview and that is

Speaker 1 the lens through which you're looking at

Speaker 1 life on Earth,

Speaker 1 basically everything changes. I mean, there are,

Speaker 1 it's true to say that you can have people who, I mean, obviously there are some prototypically evil people

Speaker 1 a part of you know any jihadist movement and they're people they're sociopaths and they're they're they're bad guys but there are also people who are absolutely convinced that this is the appropriate use of their genuine compassion it's like they they feel they're feeling real compassion that what we would recognize as compassion and they just think that the most important difference of outcomes hangs in the balance.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's paradise on the one hand and there's hell on the other, and they have the right answer for how to navigate toward one and avoid the other.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 nothing else matters, right? And so, and literally, under that framing, you can't kill the wrong people because anyone you kill who was destined for paradise is just going to thank you, right?

Speaker 1 They're just, you know,

Speaker 1 you blow up

Speaker 1 a bunch of non-combatants. And if they're good Muslims among them, there's no,

Speaker 1 they're just waiting in the bottle room with you and alien 72 virgins. No downside.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I blame misinformation.

Speaker 1 Which I know you do a lot. You know, yes, you did.
That was a joke.

Speaker 1 So there were scare quotes around that word. So you don't like, you don't like misinformation, the idea of misinformation.

Speaker 1 Obviously, sometimes it's true. Yes.
But sometimes it's just, you know,

Speaker 1 one day's misinformation is tomorrow's information. Well, you know, I mean, I mean, COVID could have started.
But not for everything. No, but COVID could have started in a lab was misinformation.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Although, I mean, honestly, I think there are people who

Speaker 1 could see even then

Speaker 1 that,

Speaker 1 for instance, you and I are on opposite sides of a few of these questions, but that's not one of them.

Speaker 1 From the first possible moment, I thought that's a totally valid hypothesis. And to call it racist was idiotic.

Speaker 1 And I still don't know what happened, but it's a coin toss. But I would venture to say that in 50 years what people will be saying about this is,

Speaker 1 wait a second, you're telling me that in 2020 there was this disease that started in the one city where the lab was that

Speaker 1 named after the disease that was studying it and doing gain of function research.

Speaker 1 And yet they debated whether it came out of there and even said it couldn't possibly have come out of there. Really? That's what people were doing in 2020? That's what I think they would be saying.

Speaker 1 That it wasn't obvious to them that there's a connection here. Now, it could have been the bats in the wet market.

Speaker 1 I mean, the problem is that there are still, it's been at least a year since I looked at this. I did a podcast on it, but I've now kind of ignored it.
But

Speaker 1 when I did that podcast, there were still credible scientific arguments to argue for the wet market origin thesis. There still are.
Yeah, so it's.

Speaker 1 less and less so, it seems, over time.

Speaker 1 But the crucial point is that it was never crazy to have worried about this. And the truth, I mean, we should still be worried about it.
I mean, lab leaks happen continuously. Yeah.
And

Speaker 1 it's just this is something, this is going to, this could well kill us with something far more dangerous than

Speaker 1 COVID. Well, and we're not, you know, we don't have it locked down the way we should.
And again, you don't have to ascribe any sort of nefarious machinations to this.

Speaker 1 It's very possible that sincere people thought the best way to deal with future viruses is to get ahead of it, study it in a lab.

Speaker 1 Isn't that what gain and function research is, to see where it's the virus?

Speaker 1 So there are two steps here that are neither of which, in my view, make much sense, but it's sort of easy to see how they did make sense to people early on. Happily, I think

Speaker 1 we've pulled the brakes on much of this.

Speaker 1 Have we? Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 1 that was

Speaker 1 USAID was,

Speaker 1 I mean, so you had

Speaker 1 this notion of virus hunting where you would send out your virologists into

Speaker 1 bat caves and in search of possible

Speaker 1 pandemic pathogens, right? So

Speaker 1 there's an uncountable number of viruses out there to be discovered. I think they outnumber any other species of life, like 10 to 1.
So it's like, yeah, I mean, just breathing the room.

Speaker 1 Millions upon millions of

Speaker 1 characterized viruses. Yeah.
Yeah. No doubt.
In this room, I don't doubt it.

Speaker 1 It's on the furniture. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. When I go home, it's like, you saw Silkwood, right? I've got a stage when I enter my house where I make it.
And I made you healthier tonight is what I did. Good luck.

Speaker 1 You boosted my immune system. I did.

Speaker 1 I would like to know the names of the women who have helped in

Speaker 1 that effort.

Speaker 1 I must tell you, I was watching the news last night. I hadn't done that in a while.
And there's Lester Holt, and he's talking about bird flu.

Speaker 1 And it's like a three-minute package. And the whole time I'm going, oh, fuck, we're all going to die.

Speaker 1 It's just

Speaker 1 meant to make you shit your pants. You know, pictures of chickens.

Speaker 1 And they get to the end of it, and I'm like, oh, this is death.

Speaker 1 This is another one. It's going to be worse.
And then they bring on the expert, and there's a question to her. And the very last thing she says after three minutes of shitting your pants is,

Speaker 1 and the only way you can get it is if it's directly fucking ducked on top of a cow.

Speaker 1 I mean, you'd have to practically fuck a chicken. Like Larry Flint says he lost.
Well, no, I think raw milk is suspect

Speaker 1 specifically for bird flu. And the cows got it in California.
And

Speaker 1 you can get, at least theoretically, I think there's some cases that they think are attributable to raw milk. What about raw goat yogurt?

Speaker 1 Raw anything is probably

Speaker 1 in the dairy, on the dairy aisle, I think it's probably just not worth the money. I've been eating raw goat yogurt for 20 years and never got sick from it.

Speaker 1 What would you say to that? Yeah, well, the birds are flying over the goats and now shitting on them. And the goats might get bird flu.
I mean, the rows are.

Speaker 1 Well, maybe it'd be a good time to take a break from it. Yeah, exactly.
No, but

Speaker 1 seriously, I'm not unreasonable about anything, I don't think. That makes sense to me.
But in general,

Speaker 1 I mean, obviously you understand the reasoning why people... People don't do it just for shits and giggles, eat raw.

Speaker 1 They do it because they want the probiotics in there that pasteurization and homogenization kills.

Speaker 1 It kills the, just like in our body with antibiotics. I think if you lick any of the surfaces in this room, you'll get a lot of probiotics.

Speaker 1 There's a remote control that I got from. Say I am a best Western that I would like to.

Speaker 1 First of all, I've calmed down a lot.

Speaker 1 Okay, so let's

Speaker 1 get it. Well, that's not complete.

Speaker 1 Everything has its season. Not complete.

Speaker 1 Well, I don't know about that.

Speaker 1 This is Ecclesiastes. That's why I never got married is because I was like, I like this season.
Why can't I keep this season going?

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 this commerce season or the

Speaker 1 season of... The Polycruz season of yesteryear.

Speaker 1 Yeah, where I was snorting a column of ants off the floor. That's right, Sam.
That's what I was doing, snorting ants and eating the heads off of bats. No,

Speaker 1 the season of,

Speaker 1 you know how people look back and they kind of look back fondly on that, you know, falling in love era. I'm like, well, if you're looking fondly back on it, why don't you do it?

Speaker 1 Is it a law that you have to stop it? That's that was always

Speaker 1 right.

Speaker 1 I understand that I'm also, you can't have kids and, you know, lots of.

Speaker 1 There are trade-offs.

Speaker 1 There are trade-offs.

Speaker 1 Life's all of trade-offs.

Speaker 1 One of the obvious things I feel like the... younger generation doesn't understand.
I feel like besides not teaching them like how to do math anymore or write or read,

Speaker 1 I think I heard you say that your kids don't even

Speaker 1 write cursive, right? So I knew that that was just that skill was atrophying and it was just not being taught.

Speaker 1 And they were taught it in a completely perfunctory way and they they spent like two weeks on it and they never got it. And so obviously it wasn't happening.
Why is it important? It's not.

Speaker 1 But then I didn't realize,

Speaker 1 idiot that I am, I didn't realize that that would translate into them not reading it. And so literally they're handed

Speaker 1 a birthday card from their grandmother, and

Speaker 1 it's like the fucking Rosetta Stone. I mean, they cannot decode a word.
Which oddly is the name of their grandmother, Rosetta Stone.

Speaker 1 They cannot, I mean, they can't decode a single word.

Speaker 1 It's not like, I mean, and this is pretty counterintuitive because, you know, I don't, I don't write, I spend no time writing cursive, but obviously I can read it.

Speaker 1 It seems strange that that's a good thing. I do sometimes use it because it's faster.
Right. It's not faster for me.

Speaker 1 I'm just behind you enough to have. If you're signing a lot of books or something.
Oh, well, signing your, having a signature is one thing, but actually writing a cursive.

Speaker 1 A signature is always in cursive. Who prints their

Speaker 1 cursor? Frankenstein? Yes.

Speaker 1 Just X.

Speaker 1 Morons print their signature. But if they can't read cursive, how can they read a person's autograph? They can't.
No, they know that they're not. Really?

Speaker 1 They just have to take your word that it says Frank Stallone? Yes, but

Speaker 1 they should not become famous because neither of my daughters have autographs. Yeah,

Speaker 1 they will struggle. But I must say, among the things we've lost,

Speaker 1 I cry the least for this.

Speaker 1 Right? Yes, I'm not going to lay awake at night. I mean, cursive,

Speaker 1 that one can go.

Speaker 1 You know what else could go?

Speaker 1 Daylight savings. Yes, I'm with you there.
That's just a hassle. And

Speaker 1 President Trump says he is fully behind getting rid of it. It's part of

Speaker 1 the mega agenda. Yeah.
I've said that I am not going to pre-hate anything.

Speaker 1 So yeah, so you and I are taking a similar line there.

Speaker 1 What I've been saying is that I'm not going to react to anything that hasn't already happened.

Speaker 1 So all my whinging about Trump and Trumpism relates to stuff that's already happened. And I'm not talking about hypotheticals.

Speaker 1 And I'm also not going to react to if he talks about Arnold Palmer's dick or some other silly thing.

Speaker 1 He's a talker. Okay.
He just talks. He's one of those people who talks a lot.
And he kind of like just...

Speaker 1 Have you ever met him? Of course. Yeah.
And so like, what was your... There's actually, there's a photo.
Yeah, you showed me a photo of you and him at one point.

Speaker 1 Oh, that was at the Emmys. I forgot about that time.
Yeah, that's a classic photo. Do you have any

Speaker 1 different experience of him in person versus his public persona? Of course.

Speaker 1 I have the same experience every single person who's ever met him has, which is, oh my God, not only is he not a monster in person, but he's actually was very nice and charming.

Speaker 1 And, you know, he's one of those guys who's always looking to make connections and network and maybe someday this guy, I don't know, but I'm going to like flatter him and give him like two minutes of my attention and make him feel like an important person.

Speaker 1 That's a skill that a salesman like him and a con man like him has to have, and he does have it. I met him twice.
Once was at the Playboy Mansion.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You're meeting on

Speaker 1 an area of common interest.

Speaker 1 It was the Midsummer Night's Dream Party. Are you familiar?

Speaker 1 I can imagine. No, I wasn't.
You've never heard of it? No. I think I've heard of it, but I don't think it's.
It's iconic.

Speaker 1 Is it a costume? I mean, does everyone show up in costume? No, it was a party. It was in the middle of the summer.

Speaker 1 So it was hot out, and you had to wear bedwear. Of course, it's an excuse to get the women to wear lingerie.
Right, but do you show up in pajamas? Yeah, sir.

Speaker 1 You'd either show up in, you know, guys had different, you know, muscle guys would just like have pajama bottoms and no shirt, and, you know, or you'd have a classy smoking jacket I thought was a good look.

Speaker 1 You know, but it was just to get the women in them. Right.
But so everyone is in their pajama wear, and he's walking around the party. He did a lap in his

Speaker 1 magazine. His power suit with the red tie.
And I remember he just went around the party and I talked to him there. And yes, he was quite charming and attentive.
And then I saw him at a club.

Speaker 1 In New York in the 90s, we were both at a club. Again, I know, Common Interest.
I think it was called Moomba.

Speaker 1 It was one of those places at that era in my life I would be at. And

Speaker 1 I think he talked about it on Howard Stern once. And they asked him about it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's with the girl. She was not bad.

Speaker 1 I got the approval from Donald Trump. She wasn't a seven.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 so, but I've matured and he hasn't. That's the difference between how you get to be president and why you're sitting here in this lickable furniture world.

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Speaker 1 Terms apply. Well,

Speaker 1 there's one thing I am skeptical about. Come on.
I haven't said anything about this. I'll give it to you.

Speaker 1 I actually, just, I mean, this just could be based on a faulty intuition about ballistics, but I would be, I'm surprised that a rifle round making any degree of contact with an ear wouldn't do more damage.

Speaker 1 I think a shattered piece of shrapnel from a teleprompter is far more likely to have done that to his ear than a rifle round. That's so silly.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 have you seen what rifle rounds do to human bodies? I know, but like if it just hit it by the slightest possible degree, it just, you know, it makes much more sense. The guy behind.

Speaker 1 Well, no, but I do, no, there's no question there were rifle rounds

Speaker 1 flying.

Speaker 1 I mean, someone was killed.

Speaker 1 I'm not debating that at all, but just to

Speaker 1 if, in fact, a teleprompter was hit by the rifle round and we know there was shattered glass, that makes more sense to me. Oh, he didn't get hit at all.
It was the teleprompter.

Speaker 1 He got hit by flying glass as opposed to a rifle round. But that doesn't change the basic narrative.
No, no, no. Zero changes.
No, I

Speaker 1 completely agree that it could be that McLovin just missed him completely. McLovin?

Speaker 1 That's what I call it.

Speaker 1 And shot the other guy.

Speaker 1 And he got hit by the. But, but you know.
Yes, no, no, that does not take anything away from

Speaker 1 him having survived a legit assassination attack. I'm not disputing that.
And by the way,

Speaker 1 thank God he did, not just because even people we don't like, we should not wish their death, but it's a bad place for your mind to be, I think, but also because the country would just have gone nuts.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 we would be in the middle of a civil war now. Well, so I think we sort of

Speaker 1 nodded toward this truth, but I'll just make it explicit. I do think that one of the silver linings of him having won this election and having won it decisively is that it has discharged all of that

Speaker 1 pent-up

Speaker 1 rage and conspiracy thinking. I mean, like, so

Speaker 1 in Trumpistan,

Speaker 1 well,

Speaker 1 they've gotten everything.

Speaker 1 Right. So now they've got four years

Speaker 1 to just believe in elections again. Yeah, yeah.
So like our election system works, right, apparently. And

Speaker 1 the elites couldn't keep the man down. But again, there's no conspiracy.
The Jews didn't do the thing that they were worried about.

Speaker 1 But, you know, again, and I don't think you're going to disagree with this. We didn't cure the cancer.
We just pushed it further into tissue.

Speaker 1 Well, but I think it's different. But the counterfactual is scary.

Speaker 1 I mean, so a Harris administration with all of these right-wing QAnon addled nutcases thinking that the fix was in and elections don't mean mean anything and all that's bad from my point of view so the fact that that half of the electorate is that crazy is i i do think they've been mollified and that now they get to see what it's like to govern with all of the the tech bros they love and yeah we'll see what happens well i don't know what will happen with that I do know what will happen with the next election, which is why, as much as we're living in a wonderful time now where America is great again,

Speaker 1 Whatever the next election is,

Speaker 1 if the Democrat wins it, they're just going to be ever more suspicious. And it's just going to be

Speaker 1 where something has to give with the people who don't believe in elections unless we win them.

Speaker 1 That's an intolerable. Why would you say that if this time we, the mustache-twirling plutocrats, couldn't fix the election?

Speaker 1 You're thinking too much. Elections work.

Speaker 1 You're thinking so logically.

Speaker 1 Sam, this is how he won everything.

Speaker 1 He ran the table. Yes, because

Speaker 1 there was no cheating. But if he had lost, there would have been cheating.

Speaker 1 You haven't backwards. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 But now, but we've proven that

Speaker 1 you could have a fair election in the year 2024. You're living in the world where you're encountering people like you.
Right. And that's not the world we live in.
Well, that's not going to happen.

Speaker 1 I'm a bad judge of character.

Speaker 1 You are. That is not going to happen.
What's going to happen is the next time a Democrat wins, there's going to be

Speaker 1 a fucking shitstorm. And I don't know how that ends.
And it depends also on who is in positions of power that are being put there now.

Speaker 1 I mean, I did an editorial once about power begets power. The more power you have, the more power you get.

Speaker 1 So now

Speaker 1 What are you worried about? And what are you agnostic about? And what are you hopeful about?

Speaker 1 I'm worried about that now that they have a lot of power controlling all the levers, they do what all countries do, where the people who want to stay in power forever put the people in place who are just total loyalists.

Speaker 1 That's the courts.

Speaker 1 But are you worried that we're not going to have a valid 2028 election because he's going to run for a third term or something like that?

Speaker 1 I mean, he could, and that would be awful.

Speaker 1 I don't know. It's a very sort of

Speaker 1 Prince Charles situation, you know, like where Don Jr. is like, mom,

Speaker 1 would you please die, Queen Elizabeth? So, I mean, how old was Prince Charles when he finally got it? And Don Jr. is going to be chomping at the bit.

Speaker 1 But we are heading toward that, where like North Korea and the Assad regime and many other places in the world, that they have elections, wink, wink, but really it's just the scion of the ruling family that takes over.

Speaker 1 And of course, their fans love this.

Speaker 1 So, you know, I think J.D. Vance is just a placeholder for Don Jr.
I think the fact that they look alike makes it easier. They just put Don Jr.
in there and they tell them

Speaker 1 it's the same guy. So you think Trumpism continues without Trump? Absolutely.
I think Trump

Speaker 1 Very often with a person named Trump.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.
So

Speaker 1 I would, that's like

Speaker 1 Baron, I could see

Speaker 1 doing this. He's eight feet tall.
So, yeah.

Speaker 1 So was George Washington for his day. Yeah.
You know,

Speaker 1 yes. But even without them, Trumpism to me is a response.

Speaker 1 to something we both talk a lot about, which is the insanity of the left. As long as one half of the country feels that

Speaker 1 even if they don't like Trump so much, we just can't let these crazy people take over, the people who don't know what a woman is. Right.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 that kind of stuff. The people who think we are living in this racist

Speaker 1 patriarchal nightmare of a country, which we're not. We have issues.
We have problems. Do you think the pendulum is swinging back on that now?

Speaker 1 You know, we've heard this for the last few years, and there are bits of evidence that it is.

Speaker 1 I mean, but in the aftermath of the loss, do you think this theory?

Speaker 1 We've actually had a test case that can answer this question,

Speaker 1 although we don't have the full answer yet. But Seth Moulton, you're familiar? Yeah.
Congressman. Okay.

Speaker 1 He said after the election something which you and I and any reasonable person in America would find

Speaker 1 not only benign, but completely uncontroversial. He said, I don't want my, I think, 12.
Want my daughter being run over by

Speaker 1 a man.

Speaker 1 Yes, I don't want my 12-year-old daughter who played, whether it was at field hockey or soccer or some girls' sport in school, to be on the field with a biological male who couldn't do a lot of damage, it's true.

Speaker 1 And immediately, I think it was his press secretary or maybe campaign manager or maybe both, resigned. Right.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 there's where we are.

Speaker 1 That is the.

Speaker 1 But he's still okay, right? Like, so he hasn't been canceled, right?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 But hey, I don't, maybe I missed it because I'm on vacation, but I don't hear him saying,

Speaker 1 good,

Speaker 1 let the door hit you in the ass. You are what lost

Speaker 1 this last election.

Speaker 1 And I'm glad you're going, and you're what's taking down this party, and you're nuts. And I'm here to say Democrats are not nuts.

Speaker 1 Have you seen Rishi Torres speak? Yes, I've had him on on the show. Oh, okay.
So I missed that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 He seems great to me. And he seems like he's kryptonite to the far left.

Speaker 1 I've seen him be great on some issues. Frankly, on the

Speaker 1 one-on-one, we had him once, and I liked him a lot. Then he was on the panel.
Is it on real time or on the panel? Yeah, real time.

Speaker 1 And then he was on the panel, and I thought he was

Speaker 1 looked green, young, way too careful.

Speaker 1 I saw him. But, you know, he's very young.
Yeah. But I like him.
And you know, any Democrat who stands up for Israel, that takes guts. And he did it and does it.

Speaker 1 And yeah, I think he's got a big future. I think he's really smart.
I mean, he's black, Latino, gay, and wants nothing to do with identity politics, which is.

Speaker 1 Well, it's easy to say when you're all that. That's right.
Yeah. But I mean, that's like, you know, that's like having the 20-sided dice.

Speaker 1 It's like the rich guy who says, money really doesn't matter. Yeah, because you have it.

Speaker 1 Well, that's one of the Democrats' biggest problems in electoral politics is that

Speaker 1 one side doesn't give a shit at all about diversity, and one side is way too beholden to it and has to check boxes before they even think about who's going to be on the ticket.

Speaker 1 I mean, I said this to, I think it was Eric Holder, but I said, can you even imagine a Democratic ticket

Speaker 1 without a person of color? He said, no.

Speaker 1 Now, maybe that's a good thing, but it is limiting. Yeah.
It is very, very limiting. It means you are pulling from half the pool of talent and maybe not the pool of talent.
Not even half.

Speaker 1 Right. It depends what you mean by color in that case.
But

Speaker 1 you're talking about black. You're like 14% of it.

Speaker 1 I see what you're saying. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But in politics, probably a little more is that number. But just in general,

Speaker 1 you're limiting yourself, and the other team just doesn't care. I mean, look at Trump.
He just,

Speaker 1 although he did,

Speaker 1 one of his people is gay.

Speaker 1 Who was it?

Speaker 1 Some important... Was it the Treasury Secretary, I think?

Speaker 1 It was a very un-Trump-like pick. He wasn't necessarily a loyalist, gay, and a former George Soros contributor.
Right, right. That's a great question.
But I think he's Treasury. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I've got to imagine there are conspiracy theorists getting a hold of that. I mean, because Soros is enemy number one over in the middle.
He is,

Speaker 1 you know, but I don't think in the Trump administration, I don't think enemy number one or enemy at all is gay.

Speaker 1 Not gay, but because I'm thinking of it as Soros. I don't think it's black.
I just think they don't kowtow.

Speaker 1 And maybe they should a little, because we do need remedial

Speaker 1 steps still. We do have to take account of our horrible past.

Speaker 1 We We just need to live in the year we're living in, is what I always say, as opposed to pretending that we need to be doing what we were doing in 1960 or something.

Speaker 1 Now, Trump's people, maybe they go a little too far. I mean, I don't think there's any

Speaker 1 maybe there's one person of color that he picked, but it's just not the way he thinks. And, you know, I don't know.
One side is on too far one way.

Speaker 1 He's too far the other way. But generally, Merritt does need to make a comeback.
Not that the people you picked have anything to do with Merritt.

Speaker 1 It's really not. I mean, he's

Speaker 1 to a degree that is fairly... Did I say bad example?

Speaker 1 Oh, God.

Speaker 1 Pete Hagsmith. Hagseth.
Hagseth.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, it's like, can we get more rapists in here?

Speaker 1 How is it that you... Okay, that's a very strong word.
That's true.

Speaker 1 Well, we'll find out. We'll find out what this person...
No, I don't think this person will come forward because

Speaker 1 I think he's given the woman freedom to come forward. Would I be shocked? I would not.
But I also think in these instances,

Speaker 1 since Bill Clinton has been credibly accused of doing the same thing as Trump has done, I mean,

Speaker 1 past

Speaker 1 just being handsy,

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 since the Democrats never really seem to care about that, you've already lost the high ground on this issue. You know, you apparently only care.

Speaker 1 There's a lesson in that. Don't lose the fucking high ground.
I mean, like, like actually have integrity. You know, I mean, it just seems like,

Speaker 1 you know, I mean, where you start the clock is a judgment call, but like, okay, from this moment forward, whatever your party,

Speaker 1 like if we're going to reboot the Democratic Party, let's

Speaker 1 practice sane politics. And sane politics is not reverse racism, right? It's not just

Speaker 1 hating whitey all the time, right?

Speaker 1 So that's the key.

Speaker 1 At a certain point, you have to stop apologizing for how fucked up the past was and

Speaker 1 just

Speaker 1 find the people who are capable of moving forward with real integrity. That's the key.
I mean, race is the original sin of this country. And, you know, it's still with us in a big way, in every way

Speaker 1 it's with us but but i think we can you know we can solve the problem without focusing on race so for instance no if there's a so i i mean i think there really is

Speaker 1 there there are profound inequalities that are highly correlated with race in america like you know wealth inequality

Speaker 1 you know health outcomes mostly money mostly money i mean everything that comes with money right because of you know for years they couldn't have any money and we've had generations of wealth yeah so so i think this I think it is still true to say that it's something like

Speaker 1 an eight-fold difference in the average amount of familial wealth between white and black in America, right? So that's

Speaker 1 crazy. It's serious, right?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 if you were going to focus on class, if you're going to focus on wealth inequality and all of its

Speaker 1 entailments, you know, education, health, et cetera,

Speaker 1 then you you would be disproportionately benefiting people of color without ever focusing on race as

Speaker 1 the variable. Right.
And there's some things that the people who just want to make headlines don't acknowledge about this argument. One is this cannot be

Speaker 1 an eight to one disparity in wealth cannot be addressed in a short period of time. Yep.
It's going to take a century. Well, you're not going to cut a check.

Speaker 1 It's going to take a century. Some things just do.
I'm sorry about the past. I personally didn't do it.
And you're not going to get white people to.

Speaker 1 And it would bankrupt the economy.

Speaker 1 If you actually gave what black people in general deserve, yes. But again, the people...

Speaker 1 It's unworkable in all kinds of other ways. And the people alive today aren't the people already.
Very often get conflated. They're not the culpable people.

Speaker 1 The woke like to conflate the past with the present. The past was despicable, and the present has parts of it that are still needing remedial work, but it's not despicable.

Speaker 1 We have racists in this country. I don't think we're a racist country in general.

Speaker 1 I said it in my last editorial that the Democrats appeal to the voters as if they don't actually live here.

Speaker 1 As if they don't actually go out in the day. Yeah, you don't go to a CVS and have to get your shaving kit kit under lock and key.

Speaker 1 A jailer comes by to

Speaker 1 get you some racial.

Speaker 1 But I mean, racially.

Speaker 1 They seem to think Americans live in this country where they go out in the day and they're seeing racism. Right.

Speaker 1 Like the cross burnings in front of the Starbucks.

Speaker 1 Starbucks is saying, we don't serve your kind to people. You know, it's just like,

Speaker 1 we have issues to work out, but basically we're a fairly successful multiracial society.

Speaker 1 Well, Well, here's a provocative maybe this won't be provocative to you, but

Speaker 1 in Wokestan, this is provocative.

Speaker 1 I think if we could just magically remove every racist from our society,

Speaker 1 virtually nothing would change of substance. It's like there'll still be the same number of murders in Chicago this weekend.

Speaker 1 There'd still be the same wealth inequality. There'll still be educational disparities.
We still have lots of problems to solve. And we would recognize that

Speaker 1 for virtually nothing was the problem, that there was a racist standing in the way,

Speaker 1 anchoring that problem. Yes.
And of course, there are people listening to this now saying, how dare two white men talk about, even talk about it, let alone. For that, I can say, go fuck yourself.

Speaker 1 Me too. Because we're speaking the truth.

Speaker 1 You know, and of course,

Speaker 1 the people who know this better than anybody are black people.

Speaker 1 Like, I've heard... Who voted in record numbers for Trump?

Speaker 1 Still not a lot. No, but just record numbers.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, he got half of the male Latino vote. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 no, I mean, I've heard woke people say things like, you know, black people are hunted when they leave their house.

Speaker 1 Somebody has to stand up to that kind of thing. Like the implication being by racists, as you're talking about, or the police.
Racist cops. Racist cops.

Speaker 1 And it's true, there are some black people who are hunted when they leave their house. They're gang members

Speaker 1 who are being hunted by other gang members because they insulted their sneakers or something. You know, that's, or they're on their drug territory.

Speaker 1 We could make so much progress in this racial area if we would just

Speaker 1 do three things. John McWhorter talks about them.

Speaker 1 End the drug war,

Speaker 1 better schools, and actually teaching kids something.

Speaker 1 especially in shitty schools where a lot of black kids go, and

Speaker 1 more daddies.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Family.
That's also a completely incendiary, you know, Candace Owens level point. You know, what did she say?

Speaker 1 I mean, just putting the onus on single-parent households. I mean, I think it's something like 70% of the births in the black community are to single moms, right? And

Speaker 1 she's just like, that's your fucking problem, fellas. And

Speaker 1 that, but that, I mean, well, Candace is black, obviously, so

Speaker 1 she doesn't quite have the problems that you and I are now going to inherit as a result of this conversation.

Speaker 1 But it's obviously so, right? It's like it's just not.

Speaker 1 And it wasn't always so.

Speaker 1 In the black community. So something did change.

Speaker 1 I think some people think that it was always thus, or that maybe it's even

Speaker 1 gotten better.

Speaker 1 But no,

Speaker 1 that number was not nearly that high.

Speaker 1 That did get worse yeah and then so maybe we should just look at that but i think that's kind of anathema to the left because it implicates like the great society and um my feeling now is that as a heuristic i just think that any mention of race in virtually any context is is

Speaker 1 almost always, these are all these modifiers, counterproductive.

Speaker 1 And paradoxically, they want to make everything about race.

Speaker 1 That means about race, but don't mention it. There's no one who cares as much about race

Speaker 1 as progressives in American society. Other than

Speaker 1 if you migrate right to look for

Speaker 1 your colleague in this racial fixation, you have to go all the way to the Ku Klux Klan, all the way to white supremacists and neo-Nazis.

Speaker 1 Those are the people who care about race as much as the woke progressives.

Speaker 1 It's a little like how much Republicans care about gay. You know, some of them think about gayness a lot.

Speaker 1 You almost have to be a gay man to think about it as much. It's kind of the same.
Yeah. Although I think that's probably not so much the case.

Speaker 1 I think we've won I feel like we we did win that battle and that's not getting walked back, but who knows? I mean, there are theocrats who are still waiting to win that argument. But well, Trump.

Speaker 1 What's amazing is that for you and me, what is amazing is that we have not had the bandwidth to even think about

Speaker 1 Christian fundamentalism and theocracy

Speaker 1 in the last decade, given all of the political mishagas that Trump has brought in.

Speaker 1 He has empowered the Theocrats, and there's been this kind of quiet, you know.

Speaker 1 QAnon is a

Speaker 1 Theocrats are getting what they want, but

Speaker 1 we're not talking about them or

Speaker 1 even thinking about them in most cases.

Speaker 1 But I worry that when he's gone, they're still there. Oh, yeah.
And they like, he gets a pass. He got a hall pass from the theocrats.

Speaker 1 He's not even, I mean, not even remotely plausibly a Christian, and yet he's their instrument.

Speaker 1 Excuse me, Sam. Have you read your Bible? He's a Cyrus figure.
Yes, right. Do you know who Cyrus is? Yeah.
Who? Yeah. Cyrus.
Mr. Smarty Pass.
Cyrus the Great. Yes, Cyrus the Great.

Speaker 1 What did he do?

Speaker 1 He freed the Jews. He wasn't a good person himself, but he did a good thing.
He was a vessel of God.

Speaker 1 Instrument of the Lord. He was an instrument of the Lord.
So we don't care that he wasn't even a Jew. I think I told you I asked Ralph Reed about this the first time around, like this 2016.

Speaker 1 I was at a conference. I ran into Ralph.
Yeah, we had him on the show. Most people remember he's a

Speaker 1 in good standing among evangelicals,

Speaker 1 evangelical thought leader. Oh, God.

Speaker 1 Thought leader.

Speaker 1 So this was at the moment where they had completely gone all in for Trump. And I said, Ralph, you know,

Speaker 1 I mean, he had just, he had just stood up there and said, you know, Corinthians 2 and like,

Speaker 1 and it was asked for his favorite book of the Bible. And he said, oh, I wouldn't want to say, I wouldn't want to offend anyone.

Speaker 1 Like, it was clearly, it was clear that he didn't know any of the books of the Bible. And

Speaker 1 so I asked Ralph, like, Ralph, you know, he just, he. He doesn't know anything about Christianity.

Speaker 1 He has not thought about this at all. He's not a Christian.
He's like, how are you?

Speaker 1 how are you supporting him? And he just went immediately to,

Speaker 1 you know, I don't know what's in another man's heart. You know, and it's just,

Speaker 1 they've rationalized it. You know, they knew they knew they had cut a deal with him.

Speaker 1 He's such a cynic. First of all,

Speaker 1 Trump was the 45th president of the United States. You know what passage

Speaker 1 King Cyrus is?

Speaker 1 Kings 45. Oh, I didn't know that.
You can't argue with science.

Speaker 1 Damn, well, I stand corrected.

Speaker 1 It's all going according to plan. How much do you remember about the Babylonian captivity?

Speaker 1 Personally,

Speaker 1 no from history.

Speaker 1 What year?

Speaker 1 I'm going to put that at

Speaker 1 600 BC. 586 B.C.
Pretty good. That was close.

Speaker 1 And the king was

Speaker 1 Nebuchadnezzar. Nebuchadnezzar.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm going to name my dog.

Speaker 1 That was diaspora number one, and then we had

Speaker 1 diaspora number two. And

Speaker 1 about 600 years later. What do you think about all the Jew hunting that's going on in the world? I see in Amsterdam they're now calling it Jew hunting, which

Speaker 1 has faint echoes of the word.

Speaker 1 Is it not?

Speaker 1 My reason to worry about that between the lines? Jew hunting?

Speaker 1 Again, this is one of these situations, analogous to what I just said about race.

Speaker 1 I do feel like we can get virtually everything we want, not focusing on anti-Semitism and focusing on a defense of Western values.

Speaker 1 It's like, so again, the analogy is so with race in America, I think if you focus on

Speaker 1 wealth inequality, I think

Speaker 1 that tide lifts all boats or the boats you want to lift.

Speaker 1 I think with anti-Semitism, I mean, this is perhaps,

Speaker 1 there's some serious caveats here,

Speaker 1 perhaps, but

Speaker 1 generally speaking, everything that's wrong with anti-Semitism is a symptom of this larger problem where everyone left of center can't figure out how to defend Western values from.

Speaker 1 I couldn't agree more. Absolutely.
It all springs from that.

Speaker 1 That somehow Western values themselves are tainted again because, you know, to me, the root of this is the kids don't know anything because they don't teach anything in school.

Speaker 1 So if you don't know anything, what's the one thing you can know? Black and white, literally black and white.

Speaker 1 That's as deep as they get. So in that world where there's black and white, white bad, black good,

Speaker 1 one's the oppressor, one's the oppressed, everything has to fit into that. And Israel, rich, white, even though like half of them are not white.

Speaker 1 Literally the only black people are Ethiopian Jews fighting for the IDF in that context.

Speaker 1 That's true. But I mean,

Speaker 1 Jews that are Sephardic are. Yeah, no, I mean, they're indistinguishable from the Arabs.

Speaker 1 Right, indistinguishable. Yeah, and they're P.

Speaker 1 And half the, I mean, the Mizrahi Jews have cut, I mean, you're talking about Jews who are kicked out of all the neighboring countries, Iraq and Syria and

Speaker 1 Lebanon and

Speaker 1 Morocco. I mean, like, you've got

Speaker 1 that's probably half the population of Israel. Right.
And no one's worried about their right of return. Again, my thesis, black and white, that's all you know.

Speaker 1 In that worldview, we're white bad, where they don't like sometimes teach, they don't teach a lot of stuff that they used to teach because it was written by white people,

Speaker 1 even though maybe it would be worth reading Thomas Locke.

Speaker 1 Maybe he did write something, or John Locke, whatever it was. John Locke, yeah,

Speaker 1 Thomas Hobbes. Thomas Hobbes.
I'm sure there are other people, Rousseau,

Speaker 1 you know, yes, people whose ideas became the Enlightenment ideas, which are the actual ideas that make marginalized people's lives better, like equality and protection of minorities and democracy and scientific inquiry and individual liberty.

Speaker 1 You know, sorry that white people thought of some of this stuff, but in that world, where you don't even teach that, of course, they're not going to defend Western values because values is a concept.

Speaker 1 You have to think a little above the immediate black and white. So that's what we're dealing with.

Speaker 1 We're working on not what used to be considered such a lofty level, the level of concepts as opposed to just identity.

Speaker 1 Anyone can see the identity, but really that's why I don't think they value Western concepts anymore and Western values, and they don't defend them.

Speaker 1 They just defend the people who are oppressed, even if the oppression is coming from those people. Who is more oppressive in this world, as long as we're going to get in trouble anyway?

Speaker 1 The Theocrats and

Speaker 1 Muslim men in general.

Speaker 1 Like in their personal lives, with their relations with women.

Speaker 1 Well, that's the thing that's so

Speaker 1 not all Muslim men, I'm not saying, and certainly not the ones in America, but that's why people come to America. Yeah, no.
But around the world, you know,

Speaker 1 women are not considered equal. Well, I mean, the thing that's so crazy making about it is that it's not, it doesn't,

Speaker 1 it's not like it's logical within its context, and therefore it's easy to see how people are so confused.

Speaker 1 It's completely illogical even within its own context. Like if what you care about are the rights of women, right? You want women to be treated as equals to men.
Like that, that's your start.

Speaker 1 Like the women's march, right? Let's get a million women to march on DC and you want equality, right?

Speaker 1 Totally understandable. I'm with you, sisters.

Speaker 1 How is it that you imagine that having one of the three people who are anchoring this march, you have a veiled woman who's this theocratic bully and anti-Semite and friend of Louis Farrakhan, right?

Speaker 1 And you imagine that the veil is a symbol of female empowerment, right? Yes.

Speaker 1 It should be worn with the queers for Palestine teachers.

Speaker 1 Just as a visual of like how ass backwards these people's thinking, how confused they are.

Speaker 1 But of course, they're just going to hate us for saying that and not really see what we're saying. They more likely will not even hear us saying it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Do you ever worry about that, that you're just preaching to the converted? Or do you feel like you are converting? I feel like I'm converting some of that.

Speaker 1 The ideas certainly spread. I mean, I think the time course of their spread is smeared out over time.
I mean, you don't know when people are going to stumble upon the thing you said five years ago.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 if it felt pointless, I wouldn't do it. But

Speaker 1 it certainly doesn't feel pointless.

Speaker 1 I constantly meet the people who

Speaker 1 are thinking

Speaker 1 about me too. It's valuable.
And I also think that if I would analogize the media to politics, there's often a call for a third party in politics.

Speaker 1 Which I have never felt anything but skepticism about.

Speaker 1 It just seems like too heavy a lift. But here's where I'm going with this.
In politics, it doesn't really work. Not in this country, the way it's set up.

Speaker 1 If we were a parliamentary democracy, it would be different. You could have multiple parties.
In this system we have, one of them is always

Speaker 1 a third party, if it becomes successful, will then be co-opted by one of the two parties. It always happens.
Your ideas are popular, we'll just steal them.

Speaker 1 And it just doesn't work. But media-wise, yes, the two parties, the MSNBCs over here and the Fox News over there with all their other

Speaker 1 New York Times on that side and Sinclair or whatever on that side, they both have huge bastions and lots of people who just want to hear what they have to say because they just want their preconceived ideas confirmed.

Speaker 1 They want everything to be chewed for them and then spit back in their mouth in a way that they can just swallow. Right.
Okay.

Speaker 1 But there is like a third party in media, and that's you and me and Barry Weiss and Andrew Sullivan. And, you know, I could name other people.
It's really just the four of us. No, it isn't.

Speaker 1 Don't say that. There's more, right? I hope.
Yeah. Come on.

Speaker 1 Douglas Murray.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean,

Speaker 1 Douglas is fantastic on his issues, but

Speaker 1 he's hated by everyone left of center. So are we.
No, no, well, not as much.

Speaker 1 We're not hated as much as Douglas Murray. Pointlessly.
And that's the thing.

Speaker 1 The great thing about Douglas is he doesn't care. He's never cared.
He has no reason to care because he's on the right. Neither do we.

Speaker 1 Well, no, but he never experienced this whiplash of like, wait a minute, these people who understand everything that I understand and also subscribe to the New York Times now hate me.

Speaker 1 He never had any of that. Same and Jordan Peterson, I would add to that list.
I don't feel like he.

Speaker 1 Jordan's got user interface issues that

Speaker 1 he's had.

Speaker 1 I like Jordan a lot as a person. I mean, but Jordan is definitely out there in

Speaker 1 not quite Trumpistan, but he's definitely Trump adjacent and messaging into the he's in con he's in conspiristan.

Speaker 1 He's talking to the he's out there with Russell Brand and people who are talking to the

Speaker 1 contrario the contrarian audience all the time. And well, what's something he says that I would object to?

Speaker 1 No, I know I had him here for the book on this. It's been a while since I watched his stuff.
Well, first of all,

Speaker 1 he's genuinely, well,

Speaker 1 he's religious in a way that's hard to note out.

Speaker 1 I had him here. We talked about the Bible for two hours because that's what his book is about.
Right.

Speaker 1 So we don't agree on that. And if he'd voted for Trump, we don't agree on that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't. Well, he's actually said some critical things about Trump.
So he's not, as has Douglas. So they're not all in

Speaker 1 on that front. But

Speaker 1 no, I mean, so what. What I've noticed with a lot of people,

Speaker 1 I would not put Douglas in this category, but

Speaker 1 I think I would put Jordan there.

Speaker 1 Is there's this phenomenon of audience capture, which

Speaker 1 is a phrase, I don't know if it's in your brain, but

Speaker 1 Eric Weinstein came up with this phrase that now everyone uses because it's so useful, but it's just names this phenomenon of people who,

Speaker 1 especially in alternative media, who detect a signal in their audience. Like,

Speaker 1 the person who starts talking about,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 did Jeffrey Epstein really kill himself? And all of a sudden they've done 40 podcasts on that topic because that's what their audience wants. And

Speaker 1 they've monetized that idea. And

Speaker 1 you see it happen.

Speaker 1 You see that happen to people.

Speaker 1 And you see it also in broadcast.

Speaker 1 People like Nicole Wallace, who I like.

Speaker 1 But she was a pretty hard-right Bush Republican. And then she went over to MSNBC.
And, you know, at first it's just like, well, we all hate Trump.

Speaker 1 There are good Republicans who hate Trump and we love them for it. Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney, okay, blah, blah, blah, Chris Christie.
We've done the list. But then it slowly becomes every issue.

Speaker 1 And you're like, okay,

Speaker 1 you know, maybe it's a, maybe it's a

Speaker 1 sincere conversion. Right.
Or maybe it's like, I see who signs my paycheck every week. And so

Speaker 1 your opinion about guns and climate change and all changes. That's what I changed.
All those dials conversations. That's what a sudden

Speaker 1 brown people brown people what did you ever care about brown people

Speaker 1 I mean I'm not picking on her there are other examples of that right where you just feel like wow you know I get it whoever's signing your paycheck we all got to eat you know man's got to make a living

Speaker 1 but I don't know I know I'm lucky I've had a very generous employer for a long time.

Speaker 1 So and you're lucky because you know you don't have sponsors you talk about it all the time at the beginning of your show I do this I'm asking

Speaker 1 you know for money to do this because it gives me the freedom and you're right you are beholden to nobody and that's a rare thing these days yeah in broadcasting beholden to nobody

Speaker 1 no I mean I felt it

Speaker 1 I mean this this may sound like a

Speaker 1 invidious thing to say about Ben, but did you see my debate with Ben Shapiro for Barry on Honestly? I did not. Okay, so this is pre-election.
Oh, maybe I did.

Speaker 1 Maybe I read it.

Speaker 1 Was there a transcript? They might have a transcript. Yes, I read it.
So anyway, we did a debate, but

Speaker 1 I realized, and I'm sure Ben would disagree with this, but I think he would be wrong.

Speaker 1 That there was a freedom I had in having this debate with him. And I like Ben, and it was a totally

Speaker 1 open-hearted debate. There was nothing wrong there.
But I realized I was free, like whenever he made a good point against Kamala Harris, I was free to agree with it. Right.

Speaker 1 It's like, I got no, I mean, you know, I know

Speaker 1 I'm beholden to no one, not even my audience on some level. Me neither.
And it's just like,

Speaker 1 he knows his audience is Trumpistan. He knows he can't actually say,

Speaker 1 he can't wake up tomorrow morning and realize, okay, all this stuff has gone too far. Trump is a fucking Nazi, and I don't agree.

Speaker 1 I want no part of this.

Speaker 1 His business is predicated, tomorrow's business is predicated on him not doing that. He can't have that epiphany.
And

Speaker 1 I can.

Speaker 1 It's an amazing freedom.

Speaker 1 I'm even luckier because I can with an employer. Right.
I mean, that's unusual. That's very unusual.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 if I don't say it enough, I appreciate it from HBO because they don't have to be that way.

Speaker 1 And I mean, it could end tomorrow. But I mean, they've never told me what to say, what to think, where to come down on an issue.
That's rare.

Speaker 1 So I'm extremely fortunate.

Speaker 1 When Elon buys them next week, then the regime might change.

Speaker 1 I think Elon and I get you're the one who has serious beef with Elon. Don't inherit my problem with Elon.
I'm not. I would.
If I felt that way, I would, because I always say what I think.

Speaker 1 I don't feel that way. I feel like he is a genius

Speaker 1 and he's done a lot. We seem to like forget about this, the

Speaker 1 short list of amazing things he's done that make the world better.

Speaker 1 And I want to see. He hasn't been there.

Speaker 1 I don't think he's in it for the money.

Speaker 1 I don't agree. Right.

Speaker 1 I think he's sincere. He likes to fix things.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 okay,

Speaker 1 how do we have an electric car? I'm going to fix that. And then, how do we get to Mars? I'm going to fix that.
And how do we have the internet everywhere? I'm going to fix that.

Speaker 1 And how do we get people who are paralyzed to

Speaker 1 pick up a pen from across the room? I'm going to fix that. And oh, yeah, Twitter.
I'm going to fix that. That's fucked up.
What else is fucked up? Honey,

Speaker 1 bring in the short list of fucked up things. Oh, yeah, US government, super fucked up.
I'm going to fix that. I think that's what

Speaker 1 gets his juices flowing.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 the caveat to that is he's actually behaving in a way that is reckless and unethical and fucking identifiable people over massively, and he doesn't care. So he's a very Trumpian character.

Speaker 1 Give me specifics on that. Well, I mean, he'll tweet, he'll put an identifiable civilian on blast in front of 200 million people, knowing that that's going to completely fuck over their lives.

Speaker 1 Like Cool. Like Yoel Yoel Roth, the head of trust and safety for Twitter, who he called a pedophile based on no fucking evidence.

Speaker 1 And the guy had to like flee his house because he was getting so many death threats. From kids? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 So he's, so I mean, but he'll do that, and he'll do that again and again, and he knows the consequences. He's not dumb.
He knows what you're talking to 200 million people, 1% of whom are crazy. Right.

Speaker 1 And he insists on playing this game. He doesn't have to do it.
He's addicted to to Twitter, and it's deranging his personality, and it's undermining his ethics.

Speaker 1 And he will even fuck over a former friend who was just trying to be a friend,

Speaker 1 helping him when he was starting to use these tools.

Speaker 1 Is he trying to attack you? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
No, I speak as one who knows. Oh, yeah.
On that level? Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Like by sicking who on you? Well, no, just

Speaker 1 attacking me on Twitter. I mean, it's not compared to what what happened to El Roth, it's not bad, but he will, he will,

Speaker 1 a Pizzagate lunatic, like literally one of the people who gave us Pizzagate, you know, I'm not going to name them because they would be happy to be named in this context, but it's a couple of guys who gave us Pizzagate.

Speaker 1 You remember what Pizzagate was, the DJ truck? That Hillary Clinton was running a pedophile ring out of a pizza parlor. Out of the basement of a pizza parlor that doesn't have a basement.

Speaker 1 In their defense, the pizza was fantastic.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 the people who gave us that are people who are in very good standing with Elon, who Elon will talk to them in Twitter spaces and

Speaker 1 give them the mic and boost them and just high-five them. And he knows,

Speaker 1 I've pointed out how crazy these people are to him.

Speaker 1 These people will send him a clip from my podcast or some other podcast, maybe this podcast, maybe we'll do it here.

Speaker 1 Making it seem

Speaker 1 like I've said the opposite of what I said in context.

Speaker 1 Like they sent him one where I seem to be saying that I didn't care about the chaos at the border, whereas I have exactly Elon's view of the border. And in context, you could hear that.

Speaker 1 But they'll send the opposite, and Elon will react to that. He doesn't have time to listen to the podcast, obviously.

Speaker 1 So he'll just react to the clip saying, you know, Sam Harris is a total moron, right? Like it was something like that. But amplify this to millions of people.

Speaker 1 And I will email him and say, Elon, you are being gamed by right-wing trolls who gave us Pizzagate.

Speaker 1 This is not what I said in context, right?

Speaker 1 And he will tell me to go fuck myself. And he knows, so he knows.
But he read the email. Oh, yeah.
He will respond to the email, go fuck yourself.

Speaker 1 He does not care if he's defaming someone in public who used to be a friend. So, I mean, it was, and this is why we're no longer friends.
So, I mean, he's listening.

Speaker 1 The guy is snorting ketamine and on Twitter all day long. I mean, there is no defending.
Dysregulated. There's no defending that, and I wouldn't try.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But,

Speaker 1 you know.

Speaker 1 So, so,

Speaker 1 and that's not to dispute anything you said about it. I mean, he's the greatest entrepreneur of his generation.
I think that's not disputable.

Speaker 1 But there's no reason

Speaker 1 to ignore

Speaker 1 the downside of his personality

Speaker 1 and the way he's treating people. But also to take advantage of the upside, I guess.

Speaker 1 That's the complication of human life. I mean, do we listen to R.
Kelly and Michael Jackson? I say yes,

Speaker 1 even though we know that they did things in their private life that are very not admirable.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 well,

Speaker 1 is that not as a convincing analogy from the R. Kelly.
I'm not sure it's as exculpatory as Elon fans would want.

Speaker 1 Yes, I guess what I'm saying is sometimes you're peeing on a teenage girl and sometimes you're figuring out

Speaker 1 how to get satellites into space and recapture rocket. I loved it when Trump went, did the Chinese do it when the rocket came down, they hugged it like a baby? Can the Russians do it?

Speaker 1 It's like, you know what?

Speaker 1 I'm not really against that.

Speaker 1 America is pretty great in a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 Talk.

Speaker 1 You know, we've had so many years of shitting on this country, and this is part of the problem with not getting behind Western values, is that America is this, you know, irredeemably racist, horrible place, and we're obsessed with what happened 400 years ago.

Speaker 1 And, you know, it's,

Speaker 1 if you read the paper every day and you see what's going on in the rest of the world,

Speaker 1 Man, I just saw this movie. It's fantastic.
It should get an Oscar nomination, but it won't because they don't have the money to promote it. But it's about how in the early 90s,

Speaker 1 kids in Cuba were purposely giving themselves AIDS

Speaker 1 because it was the one place in Cuba you could go because they were very afraid of AIDS breaking out. And it was like you got good food,

Speaker 1 they had ice cream.

Speaker 1 Wait, wait, so what was the one place like the hospital was one place you could go? It was like a sanitarium, but it was outside. So life was so unremittingly awful in Cuba.

Speaker 1 Tell Tell Michael Moore, didn't he write, didn't he, in one of his documentaries, didn't he basically just show us how good life was in Cuba? The medical care was so great.

Speaker 1 This is part and parcel of that.

Speaker 1 Because they were a socialist heaven,

Speaker 1 they took,

Speaker 1 yes, health care very seriously. The people were miserable and emaciated, but their health was quite good because, you know, it's usually obesity that does

Speaker 1 not have the fasting problem.

Speaker 1 No, I remember when katrina happened and they were very late in getting the aid there do you remember when fidel castro had that press conference with a bunch of doctors he had all he was flanked by like eight guys in white suits we'll help you and he was like the some president in this hemisphere must do something about this situation i'm going to step in fidel

Speaker 1 but uh the idea that it would be preferable to give yourself aids,

Speaker 1 to get to a place where you could live freely,

Speaker 1 The police didn't come because they were afraid of them because they had AIDS.

Speaker 1 And they wanted them to be happy. I hadn't heard that story.
Oh, yeah, I hadn't heard it either. It's just this.

Speaker 1 I'll send you the movie. It's fantastic.

Speaker 1 But I mean,

Speaker 1 or just read about what went on in Syria the last 10, 15 years.

Speaker 1 That is an unfolding story that is

Speaker 1 quite astonishing.

Speaker 1 We're so fortunate, you know.

Speaker 1 Well, this is

Speaker 1 Ringing the bell of our of how fortunate we are, I think

Speaker 1 other people have noticed this, but we've got this 250th anniversary of the country coming up in 2026.

Speaker 1 One landmark I want to put on the calendar is that the Democrats have to get their shit together by July 4th, 2026, to not just be whinging about Trump. It can't be a MAGA birthday party.

Speaker 1 It's got to be

Speaker 1 the Democrats have to find

Speaker 1 their patriotism gear by 2026. It's going to be tough since the other party's in power.
Yeah, no, but like, we have to figure out how to be the attractive party with

Speaker 1 people you want to listen to

Speaker 1 talking about how good this country is. And the we love the country we're asking to rule.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 That little thing. We like the place where I did it.
As opposed to you're all racist assholes. Now vote for us.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I showed a video once that somebody had sent me, did a whole editorial on it.

Speaker 1 This woman was actually running for office or had run for office and she was asking people, I guess on TikTok where you do everything nowadays, if they knew a place they could go in the world because they had to get out of this place.

Speaker 1 You know, these people who think,

Speaker 1 I guess, because they don't read or watch anything, that there's some, first of all, they don't want you. Where are you going to go? Canada doesn't want you unless you can do something for them.

Speaker 1 They have stricter immigration laws than we do. Where are you going? Finland or Denmark or Sweden or whatever you think is the paradise that isn't here?

Speaker 1 The grass that's so green. What language are you going to learn,

Speaker 1 American? I mean, there are plenty of places in the world that are, I'm sure, very pleasant to live, but they're not home, and you won't feel like you're home.

Speaker 1 Except you do have the odd billionaire who's preparing the compound in New Zealand and trying to figure out how to hire bodyguards who will not kill him and take

Speaker 1 all of his wealth in the aftermath of the apocalypse. Right.

Speaker 1 That's the bodyguard you always have to watch out for.

Speaker 1 How do you incentivize the bodyguard post-apocalypse to

Speaker 1 trust protect you? I mean,

Speaker 1 money is worthless. Indira Gandhi.

Speaker 1 Killed by the bodyguards. Yeah.
Anwar Sadat.

Speaker 1 Was that the bodyguards Sadat? I don't remember. Totally.

Speaker 1 Well, it it was inside the...

Speaker 1 I mean, he was at a parade. Right.

Speaker 1 Which did not go well. No,

Speaker 1 first of all,

Speaker 1 the last parade, yeah. Two of the floats didn't.

Speaker 1 And then. Yes, he was in the reviewing stand and his own military turned on him and

Speaker 1 I forgot the details there. I thought it was just jihadists who had infiltrated.
No, it was the people in uniform who were in his guard. I mean, it was in the guard.
No, but there's other versions.

Speaker 1 In Pakistan, this has happened. Yeah, Yeah.
It's, yeah. It's, it's, ideas spread.
You know, you can't keep the ideas out. Right.

Speaker 1 So it's like as long as you convince the, you know, the bodyguard of something, and all of a sudden you've hired your own assassin.

Speaker 1 Well, on that happy note,

Speaker 1 happily, we have no bodyguards. We don't need bodyguards here.
So everything good in your personal life? You're Sam Harris. We're all on subjects that are important, but I care about you, the person.

Speaker 1 Ironically or happily,

Speaker 1 this is just

Speaker 1 a great time of life. I mean, the things I'm worried about in the world, but I feel immensely forced to do it.
It is a weird cognitive dissonance, is it not?

Speaker 1 That like you can be so worried and the world can seem to be falling apart. But then you look around and you go, yeah, but our life is pretty good.

Speaker 1 And I understand that half the country, as you point out, are going to get pitchforks because, and they are, and we should do something about that. But I don't know what.

Speaker 1 But for a lot of people, when you just drive around, you know, people are just living their best life. And, you know, well, the difference between online and in the real world is so enormous.

Speaker 1 Again,

Speaker 1 it's not true. Like, it used to be that people could just say, you know, Twitter is not real life, but obviously, you know, the revolutions can start on Twitter.

Speaker 1 I mean, like, the things that happen online are real in

Speaker 1 some important sense. But it's just also true that in real life,

Speaker 1 people are very different than they are online. And online, you reliably just see the worst face of normal people, and it's pretty ugly.

Speaker 1 In real life,

Speaker 1 people are better. And so it's like it's good to recalibrate and recognize just what people are like face to face.
And more connected.

Speaker 1 I read in the paper the other day, I think this comes from a Pew survey, that it's almost two to one the number of young men versus young women under 30 who are in a relationship like 64 completely single like 64 percent of males under 30 completely single only 34 percent of women right so all these women under 30 are hooking up with older guys that's what's happening i don't

Speaker 1 that's how the math hope so yes that's what the math suggests yeah or they're gay well but i mean this was a article about you only fans

Speaker 1 which the level of patheticness i can't even fathom That you are so lonely. And I'm not saying this in any snarky way.

Speaker 1 I'm really sincerely feeling for these people because I remember when I was that lonely, like in college, but to be so lonely and desperate that you would

Speaker 1 have this fake girlfriend you must know is fake and you're paying her by the minute to text or talk to you. And you think this is some kind of a relationship or this is

Speaker 1 like there's not a better solution than this,

Speaker 1 and yet this is millions of people. And I think they quoted one OnlyFans model who was quite popular, and she said, yeah,

Speaker 1 when I'm recognized on the street, it's usually by somebody like younger, chubby.

Speaker 1 That was her words, you know.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 yeah, it looks like everyone's getting laid in this country and the media, but like

Speaker 1 this this is not going to end well. This like young generation that grew up on the phone and therefore does not know how to talk to a girl, you know, because girls have not changed that much.

Speaker 1 I know some people think they can rewrite anatomy and history and just reality, but they're basically probably the same as they were when we were kids.

Speaker 1 They're communicative creatures who need to be talked to and wooed and like these incels who can't get laid and they blame the women and they wonder why and it's just because you you you can't even go up to a girl and just talk to her.

Speaker 1 And I feel like this is going to be an army of frustrated, angry.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 the technology has not helped in so many ways. I mean, so just remote work is as good as it has been for so many, I mean, like for my business, it's fantastic.
I've got a team of,

Speaker 1 I don't know, now it's like maybe 15 people, but like everyone's remote and it's great, but

Speaker 1 young people need to go into the office to meet people.

Speaker 1 To be siloed, you know, in a different state from everyone you work with for your entire career, it's like

Speaker 1 they go out to a bar and then they're on their phone in the bar. Right.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 The virtualization of everything, again, it's like if you're, if you're at the right point on the wave and you've got your friends,

Speaker 1 if you've got all your friends from high school, and, you know, in my case, if you're happily married and you've got a great life, well, then the virtualization of everything is just perfect.

Speaker 1 But if you're trying to start your life and you're isolated and you don't know how to meet people and everything is a fucking video on your phone,

Speaker 1 I feel like

Speaker 1 the singularity that Ray Kurzweil talks about when we meld with the, I feel like it's already here. Did you watch the Taylor Swift Eras movie? I know.

Speaker 1 I went to the concert with my daughters, which was fucking awesome. Yeah, that was really cool.
It was fucking awesome. Well, I mean, just to take your,

Speaker 1 you got to put on some parent goggles here.

Speaker 1 Take your two daughters who are into Taylor Swift

Speaker 1 to the temple of Taylor Swift with 75,000 other girls. Like, I mean, I mean, the ratio of guys to girls there was, I mean, it was just

Speaker 1 like you could get, you just, it was a vision of like what the, what the girls are doing. It was amazing.
It was so fun. Yeah.
And it was, it was. But the music?

Speaker 1 Listen, I'm,

Speaker 1 I can put up with anything for two hours.

Speaker 1 Don't put that on the poster. I can put up with anything for two hours.
It's not two hours range. It's not my favorite music, but

Speaker 1 it took us an hour to park. And

Speaker 1 in the hour it took to park,

Speaker 1 I went to school on her whole catalog with my daughter's program in Spotify. And then we went in, and it was honestly, it was a fantastic experience.

Speaker 1 Well, my point was, I watched the thing because Nikki Glazer made me.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 Nikki's right, by the way. I love Nikki.
And everyone is watching the whole thing through their phones. I mean, when you see the shots of the crowd,

Speaker 1 it's only

Speaker 1 no faces.

Speaker 1 And it's like, wow.

Speaker 1 Not only is that completely stupid because they're making a movie of this anyway. So you don't know.
You never go back and watch it on the MD. You'll never go back and watch it.

Speaker 1 Also, everyone else is doing it. And it's like they really want to experience this secondhand through the phone.
That is a fundamental difference, it seems to me.

Speaker 1 Well, the way more disturbing case for me is all of these moments of public violence where everyone's in, rather than

Speaker 1 the impulse is to actually solve the problem and actually help somebody. No, what you want to do is

Speaker 1 take out your phone and record this innocent person being beaten within an inch of their life by some lunatic.

Speaker 1 You're so right.

Speaker 1 It happened just recently in Beverly Hills in broad daylight.

Speaker 1 A gang just attacked some old guy and trying to rip the shopping bags out of his hand. And he wouldn't let go.
And so they beat him to the ground.

Speaker 1 And yeah, everyone is just either honking their horn in the cars that go by, like that's going to stop anybody.

Speaker 1 Or filming it. Let's record this, yeah.
I mean, I mean,

Speaker 1 to be totally charitable, you can imagine someone who feels otherwise totally powerless to intervene, thinks they might be doing something good by just documenting the crime and like, oh, this is like, we're going to have, I'm going to help cash these guys.

Speaker 1 But there's so many cases where it's just so obvious that these are people who could help, and they're just not doing it because

Speaker 1 they have virtualized everything. And everything is a reality TV show, and now they're

Speaker 1 a part of the crew. It's,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. So I see that your mood ring is telling you that you're

Speaker 1 getting annoyed with

Speaker 1 when it turns black,

Speaker 1 what does that mean? Oh,

Speaker 1 this is the aura ring that tracks your sleep, and all it does is tell me that my sleep is shitty.

Speaker 1 Really? Yeah. You wear that? And you think it's? I do.
Well,

Speaker 1 I occasionally look at the data and I respond to it. Yes.

Speaker 1 If I see that my sleep. Can you see it on that little thing? What was that?

Speaker 1 Can you see it on that little thing?

Speaker 1 No, this reports to the phone.

Speaker 1 All right. Thank you.
Yes. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 Always great to talk to you. So much fun.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 What are these? Oh, these are great. Look at those.
Oh, those are hilarious.

Speaker 1 Yeah, right. Criminals fly.

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