Club Shay Shay - Daniel Cormier Part 1

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Have we ever seen someone in that sport that possessed the arsenal that he had?

No.

He's by far the most talented person that we've had in mixed martial arts.

When he beat me, I was that was the best you'd ever been.

I'd never been better.

Let's just say, for the sake of argument, you're three years apart, and now y'all move up and y'all fight heavyweight.

Nah, he wasn't beating me heavyweight.

All my life, been grinding all my life.

Sacrifice, hustle paid the price, Want a slice, got to roll the dice.

That's why, all my life, I've been grinding all my life.

All my life, been grinding all my life.

Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price.

Want a slice, got to roll the dice.

That's why, all my life, I've been grinding all my life.

Hello, welcome to another episode of Club Shay Shay.

I am your host, Shannon Sharp.

I'm also the proprietor of Club Shay Shay.

Stopping by for conversation and a drink today is one of the most accomplished and decorated fighters in mma history he's one of the great mixed martial artists of all times a warrior in the octagon a champion in every mma organization he's competed in a former ufc light heavyweight champion and heavyweight champion he's the second fighter in ufc history to hold titles in two weight classes simultaneously he's the first fighter to in the ufc to win and defend both the light heavyweight and the heavyweight belts a UFC Hall of Famer, a two-time Olympian, three-time Louisiana State champion, an all-American freestyle wrestler, color commentator, world-class talent, a master on the microphone, a father, a husband, a legend.

DC could stand for double champion, but in this case, it stands for Daniel Cormier.

My man,

say it again.

When you say it all, when you say it all, when you say it all, man, I'm going to tell you, when you say it all, it's something.

I grew up in Louisiana.

I never could have imagined this life.

I swear to God, I never could have imagined

to hear all that, man.

That was a ride.

Man, thanks for stopping by Club Shea Shea.

Thank you, Shea Shay.

Man, you know, when you stop by Club Shea Shea, you know you got to have a taste of the.

Yeah, yeah, that Shea Balapouch.

Yeah, man.

Award-winning.

Award-winning.

It's good?

It's great.

Let me see.

You know anything about Cognac?

No, I don't, but I'm going to try that.

Oh, it smells strong, too.

See?

Swish it around.

Well, that's pretty good.

It don't even really.

Yeah, see, it ain't got that bite.

You don't have to.

I was expecting a so my daddy drank like something comfort and stuff like yeah set your hair on fire yeah no no no no no it's nice and smooth yeah it's easy see we got to get you something we got to get some for your old man that's actually really good yeah see that's real good let me ask you when you hear what i read off

and you and i were talking before we started this interview and you was talking about growing up in louisiana and the expectations of now you're in media

did you expect any of this to happen to be your life at your age now?

No, Shannon, I was a kid that I didn't do, I grew up in Lafayette, right?

So it's not the best place,

but I followed everybody, so I did everything they did.

So whenever I was in high school, my freshman year, I was a kid that failed off the wrestling team.

I was a kid that had to go to summer school to get to 10th grade.

I did all kinds of bad stuff until I started getting better at wrestling.

And then I realized, like, wait, this wrestling can take me somewhere.

But even after that, I never thought that I would have jobs doing what I do with the volume, working at ESPN, working at Fox that I used to.

A lot of similarities, right?

But like having those opportunities, I never could have imagined doing that because

I didn't go to college for media.

Dramas did.

We went to college to play sports.

And normally the best people that are in media didn't go to college for media.

Yes.

Especially when they do what we do.

Now, obviously, you know, the play-by-play and things like that, you know, obviously.

But to sit and talk about a sport,

it really helps if you played that sport and you can speak through personal experience.

Absolutely.

And that's what people want to hear.

The people actually want to hear when you are talking as the guy that played the tight end, the guy that's in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, when you're talking about football.

Yes.

Because they know, well, he's been in the trenches.

And that's what I do when it comes to fighting.

I can explain something in real fine detail.

Yes.

Because there's no position I haven't experienced, the good and the bad, in my career.

I'm going to take it from this approach.

you you got a late start to the to mma yep and getting a late start that didn't deter you because now i'm looking at you what you were able to accomplish later in your career

how i mean it's how is that possible dc so i walked into that gym at 30 and a half right i turned 31 in march i only fought for 10 years and at 41 i should have been done right but the money had got too good that's another way you know the money get good at the end yeah the money get good at the end whenever you aren't supposed to be doing it anymore.

But I kept fighting, but I walked into that gym, but because of my background in wrestling, it gave me like a massive head start.

So I went out to San Jose.

I went to multiple gyms recruiting.

They were trying to get me to train, but I walked in the AKA bro.

I saw Cain Velasquez.

I was like, yo, that dude is who I want to fight like.

And if I can train alongside him,

it will lead me to being one of the best.

But at 31 years old, I was essentially making my MMA debut.

Because normally guys that are really, really good, they start,

obviously, you got a wrestling background, but they've been doing this for an extremely long period of time.

And you just basically, I mean, 30 years old with a wrestling background, but you got to be multifaceted to be really good in the UFC.

The more rounded you are, the better you are.

If you're one-dimensional, you're not going to have, you're going to have a very short shelf life in that sport.

Yep, not today.

You can't,

you definitely cannot be one-dimensional today.

Right.

Back in the day, you remember Royce Gracie and those guys?

I do.

they would walk with the the jiu-jitsu chain you had the jiu-jitsu guy and you had the big boxer right one brother went out there with one glove on his name was art jimerson he went out there with one glove can't do that this first two fights that were in denver colorado i saw him ufc really yeah you went i went see that's crazy

i was telling data the story you actually went to watch it i went to watch it because i i i you know just like okay and you know listening to it what it's gonna be well we're gonna see if a karate guy could beat this guy and if a big guy could beat that guy and i'm like okay so what about the the classic?

They're like, ain't no way classic.

I was like, hold on.

So a guy 125 could literally be fighting somebody, 275?

Like, yeah.

I'm like, I don't think this goes in well.

But that's what drew you in, right?

And then Royce wins, and he's 165 once you're in.

Yes, I'm looking at this little dude.

I said, you about to get the brace beat off you.

And he got his, he got his you, he got his suit on and that.

Yeah.

And I'm like, what's he doing?

He's like, literally trying to lay down.

I'm like, I don't think this, because I ain't never heard about no

TC.

I don't know nothing about no Brazilian Jitsu.

And he's like laying down.

I'm like, what you doing?

You go down there, you trouble.

Yeah, exactly.

If you go down there with him, they were in trouble.

But

I had, so girl, so my manager, still to this day, Dwayne, he calls me when I graduate college at Oklahoma State.

He goes, hey, there's a sport.

This is 2001.

He goes, there's a sport that's going to take over.

It's going to be MMA.

It's fighting.

Have you ever been in a fight?

Like in your life?

I started laughing at him.

I said, bro, I grew up in Louisiana.

I have to fight all the time.

And I think that,

even though, Shannon, like, we don't, I'm pretty sure you grew up down in the South Pole and you have to fight at times.

Even though we aren't doing it correctly, somebody's trying to punch you.

Yes.

You're trying to punch somebody.

So then when somebody taught me to punch, like, I'm, okay, this is how it's done the right way.

So it allowed for me to.

adjust to it much faster.

And I wasn't scared.

Right.

Like, that's the biggest thing with wrestlers, especially being scared to get hit.

You cannot be scared.

Right.

How is it that we're starting to see more athletes, D.C., dominate in their 40s?

You saw a guy like yourself.

You see a LeBron James.

You saw a Tom Brady.

You see guys that are playing at extremes.

Because normally guys, they're gone.

By the time they get to the mid-30s, they're gone, especially in your sport, even in football.

Guys ain't playing that long.

And every once in a while, you get a Kareem Abdul Jabbar that'll be, but he's a big guy and he doesn't need to get up and down the court.

But to see Tom play until he's, what, 43, 44 years of age, yourself fighting.

At At 41, yeah.

LeBron still being able to play at the level he's playing at.

Why do you think guys have been able to do things to this level

much longer?

Because of the access to recovery.

I think athletes are smarter today.

Those guys are very young.

So when we're younger, like you're in your 20s, you're in your 30s, you're a Superman.

You go to sleep, you jump out of bed, you go to train.

Yes.

Every day.

But then as you start to get older, the body starts to ache a little more.

But those guys in their 20s and 30s are not, they're not rejecting the body anymore.

They're saying at 25, while I may feel great, I know there are like problems underlying for me that I need to address, make sure that I'm straight.

And I think that's why they're playing so long.

But they're playing at an elite level.

I remember when Peyton Manning went to Denver,

he said it himself.

He goes, I can't throw the ball down the field.

He goes, but I will manage a game.

Every now and again, I'll give you one that goes a little deeper.

He goes, but I'm managing the game.

Because at the point, we were still kind of living in that world where you just age and then you age out.

And even Aaron Rodgers, right now, right?

We'll see what happens this year, but last year he just didn't look like the same guy and caught up to him quick.

Right.

Going into a fight, because, like you said, when you're young, you feel invincible.

You feel you can't lose.

As you start to get age, you're like, I'm not as quick as I once was.

My reaction time is not the same.

My defense mechanisms are not the same.

My spidey senses don't tingle like they once did.

I'm not processing information.

You know what I'm saying?

The computer,

the internet isn't working.

You're back on AOL.

Y'all look up.

You're exactly right.

But DC, I mean, for you to do, I mean, you went in there and you did what you did to Steve Pig.

Like,

what was your thought process?

Did you like, man, I'm getting older.

Did you do any?

Did you train any different?

So at 39, I didn't.

So I didn't at 39.

This is the craziest shit ever.

So 39 starts.

Yes.

Right.

In 2017

i lost to john jones in anaheim right so i was that they called me hey you want to fight another fight it was like september uh october i said no i said um

this was the first time i'd been knocked out in my life like in my life shannon like

In football, I would hit people and you kind of buzzed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was knocked out.

Bell rung, your stars, yeah.

And all it was was my bell just got rung, right?

You go back to playing.

I got knocked out, man.

Like, he kicked me in the head, and he hit me with a whole bunch of follow-up shots, shots and it put me out.

Like, hey,

I remember, I can tell you right now, this was in 2017.

From the moment that fight finished, all the way back to the ambulance, I still can't recall that time.

Really?

I can't make myself remember what happened.

I try.

I try now, even at night, to go, man, what happened in that 10, 15 minutes?

Dude, there's a video of me crying with Joe Rogan.

He's interviewing me after the fight, but I'm so concussed that I'm crying in the octopus because I just lost the biggest fight of my career.

They called me to fight again, and I said, no, I said, I'm going to let my brain rest until the end of next year or the beginning of next year.

I fight in January.

At 39, I feel great.

I win the belt back.

I beat Steep A in July and I'm fine.

I feel no age because of the late start, right?

I'm only doing this seven years now, eight years.

Because of the late start, at 39, I become the double champ.

I defend the belt in Madison Square Gardens.

Everything is great.

But on that morning of that fight with derrick lewis i get up to do my shakeout i go run hit my pads as i'm on the treadmill i'm like god i'm like i don't feel great this morning like i'm kind of like achy right shannon i'm running i sneeze bro when i sneeze through my back out they what threw my back out i sneezed so violently that's like a baseball player dismissed like this yes i sneezed so violently my back went out so now i'm stuck hunched over mind you at 1 a.m tonight i've got to walk to that octagon and fight derrick Luce.

You can't lose a main event on the day.

So then they come in there, they massage me, they give me a stem cell treatment.

They get me up in the bottom around five o'clock in the afternoon.

I go fight.

One month after that, I'm in the gym training.

I kick Kane's leg.

He checks it.

Tingle goes all the way up my leg.

The disc sits on my sciatica.

Now I'm paralyzed almost.

And from that moment on, I just was not the same guy.

It took one incident, a sneeze, essentially ended my career because I never want to fight again.

Right.

Steve beat me the next time, then he beat me the following time.

It's like, I never, it was that one thing.

So I think these guys, while they're playing longer, have an ability to go longer, but it'll be one thing.

LeBron?

Yes.

If LeBron gets hurt, it's not going to be like when he got hurt in his 20s.

He's really going to struggle

to bounce back.

Because when you're younger, the ability to bounce back.

I mean, an injury that would keep you down a day, all of a sudden is two, three days.

Or maybe it's a week.

And an injury that would keep you down a week when you're younger, it's keeping you down two weeks or maybe even a month yeah the body just doesn't recover with the football like how what would you how old were you when you retired i was uh i was i was gonna turn 36 in two months so you were still relatively young yeah in today's game though you'd have played three more years yes right but how did the how did you because because they don't in training camp we had you know we was outside twice a day we hitting we have some days we have two a day practices they don't even hit no more no no no no they don't they don't hit no more we we we hit we they were for real real hit yeah and we hit for real real in college, and we hit for real, real in high school.

So, but I think it got our bodies used to taking that.

We didn't have these little ticky-tack injuries that these guys get now.

But do you think that because you didn't have the wear and tear

that, you know, say if you had gotten to this like in your 20s, like I think John Jones started, he's like 20.

John Jones, John Jones started at like 19.

Yeah.

Do you think because you didn't have the wear and tear, because like you said, even though you got, I mean, you had a short shelf life, really, you don't have like eight years.

Yeah, yeah.

I fought for eight years.

I was the champ.

I was in the championship for eight years.

I fought for the belt those last two years.

That didn't mean I was necessarily in the picture, right?

I was fighting for the belt because I have the name value.

I was fighting for the belt and anon because I was the champion.

I had to defend.

Sure, I was beating Stipe, but man, by that

old monkey jump on my back in the third round, shit, I was beating the shit out of him.

By the third round, the monkey jump on my back.

I was like, yo, I am exhausted.

I'd never felt it before.

Wow.

Yeah, it was crazy.

It is the scariest thing that you could ever imagine in your life.

I've been in some hairy situations.

Inside that octagon,

not having the energy to fight,

because that dude wants to kill you.

Yes.

If that referee don't take him off of you, he's going to keep beating you up.

Seriously, like, that's how you got to approach fighting.

Right.

So it's like, that's a scary when you're like, you get off that stool and you're like, oh my God, I don't know how I got 10 more minutes.

scary i forget who it was but i remember there was some lady that she like woke she's like i was in the ring and i realized i didn't want to fight anymore oh i was like you probably wanted like in training

or maybe even a night before in the back yes but you don't in the ring and she i forget her name um

she fought yes she got knocked out didn't she she lost

she lost uh

misha tate misha tate yep misha tate yep i remember her saying saying that.

And I'm like, boy, that's an awful time to find out you don't want to do something when you're actually doing it.

Yeah.

There's some questions before.

Yeah.

Every time.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Every time you, there's some questions.

I used to watch Floyd and all them dudes like in the ring before when they're introducing them.

I'm like, how do they do that?

How do they find calm in this with everything going on around them?

With what's at stake?

Yeah.

And I was like, man, I couldn't do it.

But then I would walk to that octagon.

It's the most, like, you know, like, you know, right?

And that's why people, that's what people don't understand.

When you hit that tunnel for a Super Bowl or you hit that tunnel for a big game, your whole body's on fire.

Yeah, yeah, you got goosebumps.

You got goosebumps everywhere.

What's going through your mind?

Shannon,

I'm in the back every time.

And I would go in, same routine.

I'm from Louisia Superstitious.

I go in the back and I go to sleep.

People would look at me like, how can you sleep?

Knowing that in three hours you're gonna go fight for a world championship right but i knew that my preparation i'd left i left no stone unturned i'd done everything so the result was done right either i was gonna win or i was gonna lose because it wasn't gonna be something that you did in that that i did wrong and in that three hours right how do you settle yourself i said because i'm ready but they would i would be in the back i'd get up i'd do my warm-up Then they would tell me, all right, DC, you walk in a minute.

And you start hearing music.

All right, DC, we're walking in 5-4-3-2-1.

It's just nerves.

I'm like, how many times should I have gone left?

I went to college, Shannon.

How did I end up here fighting?

Man, I hit that curtain.

Thousands of people, 18,000.

The UFC does an amazing job of walking you through the crowd.

And the energy is just electric.

And they're reaching for you.

And they want a PC.

And I couldn't even handle it.

I would run to the octagon because it's just too much.

I'm already jazzed.

I can't take in any more energy before I step in there.

Do you see him?

Because a lot of times, you get into a zone, DC, and you know, like you said, like you don't even, you don't even see the people.

It's like a calm.

Like, I'm in a game, and it's like a calm.

I don't even hear the crowd.

Yeah.

It's like everything is just like, hush.

And all of a sudden, you catch a pass, you touch a touchdown, and it's like

it's great.

But I could, like, I can't see him because I'm

focused, tunneling.

I'm purposely tunneling on the octagon and have the ability to go second.

So the guy that I'm fighting is already in there.

Right.

Right.

So I'm not standing there waiting, trying to, so I'm going second.

When I hit that, when I hit that, that freaking,

when I hit that, um, that step, those steps, I'd walk up.

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And I tap the octagon.

That was some football shit we used to always hit there.

Play like a champ today, right?

I always tap the octagon.

I go in there, bro, there's Bruce.

Bruce is dressed to the dime.

There's some commissioners making sure we don't fight before.

And then when they do the last instructions and you turn around, there's a pin that they dropped to lock the cage.

It makes that sound right there that he just dropped.

I could hear it.

20,000 in the arena.

And you could still hear that.

I can hear that pin.

And then I would say to myself, I swear to God, I would be like, somebody got to die in this.

It ain't going to be me.

I swear to God, every time, I'd be like, somebody's going to die in here.

I'm about to make you go unlock that gate.

My goal is to make you unlocking.

You're going to either jump over to run away from me, or they're going to pull me off of you by the time this is done.

And that was always my approach because you had to look at it like life and death.

You just had to.

I had so many things.

I wouldn't eat.

I would like abstain from sex.

I wanted to be as primal as I could be going into the octagon.

Would you cut, okay, you're the light heavy.

That way to 205.

So now, so what are you coming down from?

You coming from 230, you coming from 235, you come from 250.

Where you coming from, Deep?

Shannon.

My nutritionist was at my house for a fight I was supposed to have in January, but I got hurt the day before Thanksgiving.

He had a turkey brine, a turkey and a brine.

It was in a big old pail.

Yeah.

It was white, though, Shannon.

He was going to make us Thanksgiving dinner, but it was not going to be seasoned.

I got hurt right before Thanksgiving.

Man, we took that turkey, rinse all that shit off, made it ourselves, and seasoned it.

The next day, I weighed 257 pounds.

What?

I weighed 257.

And you got to be 205 in January?

January 19th, I weighed in at 204.7.

I was 257.

What the?

I was huge, man.

I was big.

But like, I I wasn't tall.

But I know that's a lot of weight in a small area, DC.

But when I would walk into the octagon, you could see where the power was in my ass and my legs.

Yes.

It was like that.

You're this.

You're really explosive.

Exactly.

And it was all in this, right?

While I was the shorter guy, short arms.

Yeah.

I had...

My torso is not tall.

Right.

But like, it's in my legs.

And that's why the explosiveness was always so on display.

Yeah, it was good.

But it was the, hey, it's the best.

It's like walk, dude, when you're on, when you're on that sideline in the National Athletic playing, that feeling, that's what we're feeling, bro.

It's the best.

That's why so many fighters end up on drugs and messed up.

Because you can't replicate the business.

You can't replicate that.

No.

And that's why athletes struggle once they leave the said sport.

It's because you're never going to be able to replicate 20,000, 80,000, however many thousand.

You're never going to be able to replicate the locker room.

You're never going to be able to replicate the bus rides, the plane rides, just the camaraderie.

Now, I don't know.

But that's what you miss the most.

That's what

you literally missed the practices and afterwards, just sitting there.

Yeah, I didn't miss the games.

I mean, the money was nice, but you just missed the camaraderie, the laughing, the joking, you in the line, stretching, and doing all those things.

Yep.

You mentioned Anaheim.

You fought John Jones.

I think you were 35 and he was 27.

Yep, yep.

If you guys were comparable ages, is that fight different?

I think there are a lot of reasons why he beat me.

He's, I mean, have you met John Jones?

i haven't john jones is probably six five six four six five

john jones's arms are 84 inches apart his reach wow mine are 72

yeah so like he was taller like a little so even if even at the same age he would still be taller yes um two of his brothers played in the nfl one was like really good chandler chandler um

So I think

I would be better because I would be younger, but I don't know if I could have been better in Anaheim because I trained so hard because he beat me the first time.

I've never been better.

When he beat me, I was better.

That was the best you'd ever been.

I'd never been better.

I would have beat everybody else in the world in all those weight classes.

I was never better than that night.

And he beat me.

And even the fight up to the point that he got me, it was just super competitive.

Right.

Joe Rogan said something to the effect of, you can clearly see you're watching the two best lightweights we've ever seen in an octagon.

Right.

Because we were both so locked in.

So I don't know that the age made as much of a difference because I just think that he has a lot of built-in advantages for his height and his reach.

And he's got great timing and he's tough, dude.

He's very tough, Shannon.

Like, I would club him upside the head, and he would just keep fighting.

He would just, and not many did that.

And that's what I wanted.

What makes him, because like you say, okay, he's six foot four and a half, he's 6'5 ⁇ , 84-inch reach.

He could punch you.

He can take you down.

See, he don't hit very hard, though.

He does hands.

He does not punch hard.

Really?

No, he does not punch hard.

He, he, so, we were, I went into the fight.

I talked to Rashad Evans.

Right.

And Rashad goes, he doesn't hit hard, but he has other weapons.

So we first started fighting the first time.

We trade jabs because I had a real unique ability because of my athleticism to get to the jab, even though the guy was taller.

So we jab each other.

And my nose started bleeding.

I was like, well, why my nose bleeding?

He don't hit hard.

My shit bleeding, his shit bleeding for different reasons.

But...

Oh, there you go.

No, no, I don't let him.

Ignore that.

You don't think.

You try to think that with it to me.

So my shit bleeding, right?

And I'm like, why is my nose bleeding?

I was like, why is my shit bleeding?

So anyhow, he

start fighting.

And I'm like, okay, but I got to pressure him because I'm shorter.

Right.

Yo, you got to walk through some razors to get to him.

He's got knees.

Yes.

Elbows.

So by the time I get in, I've been kneading the body three times.

I've been elbowed two times.

So now I get off.

I get my shit going.

And then

we get apart.

So now I got to go all through the Razors again to get my offense going again.

That's what makes him special.

He's a special fighter.

He really is.

And I respect him.

for what he did inside the octane, mainly because he beat me on that night.

And you said that's the absolute best

DC has ever, ever been.

Shannon,

I was in such great shape my shoulders were like big i was lifting i was running i was training hard i was conditioned i was well conditioned i was mopping you was ready to go five if if five if five is what is required

because we went 25 the first time yes right so i and and my cardio failed me okay so i was like i need to be better because it's going 25 again okay and then ultimately he got me with the head kit right but

I was in shape, man.

I was ready to go.

My mind was strong.

Everything was ready to go get the job done on that night, but he was, he got it done.

What about him at, what if y'all had moved up?

Y'all similar in age.

Let's just say, for the sake of argument, you're three years apart, and now y'all move up and y'all fight heavyweight.

Nah, he wasn't beating at heavyweight.

He couldn't beat you?

I don't think so because I was good at heavyweight.

I think I was probably better at heavy.

You're probably a natural heavyweight.

They're worried that you figured out that my natural weight.

I was like my natural weight.

But he almost admitted it.

He said in the time that we were fighting, he goes,

No, I'm not going to fight him at heavyweight.

That would be giving him the advantage.

He goes, He's bigger than me naturally.

And he goes, No.

But then, like, a couple weeks ago, he was talking about me fighting.

I was like, Bruh,

I'm 45 years old, man.

I'm 46 now.

Go fight the dude that wants to fight you.

Right.

Got a big

one fighting, not heavy.

I would beat DC at heavyweight.

Yo, I've been retired for five years, my brother.

Go fight somebody else.

Like, I'm good.

Pickle somebody your own son.

Go fight Tom Aspinall

when you and John got into it at the at the uh the presser the very first yeah

what happened damn DC

hey Shannon

it's so funny because

MMA has struggled to encapture the urban audience yes it really has

John and I are going to fight the first time.

John and I have had a, we've always had a history of not getting along great.

Right.

So when the press conference happened, we came forehead to forehead.

I pushed him.

He pushed me.

We flew off the octane.

That was right in the middle of football season in every sports center, everything led with that.

Correct.

Because it was that big.

Lorenzo Pertino told me, he goes, you guys would have made so much money.

He goes, you made great money in January, but it was six months.

He goes, if y'all fought in September, he goes, you can't imagine how much money you would have made on pay-per-view.

Because the fire had died down a little bit after six months passed.

But we had that moment where

the cameras kept recording.

It was just, we just didn't like each other.

But

after the fight, I was in Newark, New Jersey, walking around like I would always do.

And that's when I realized that being in there with him had changed the way the public perceived me.

Right?

Because I'm in a very urban neighborhood, very black.

And everybody's like, hey, hey, hey.

But I think it was because of what we did for each other.

Hate each other, dislike each other, we did great business, and we did elevate each other to the point that when I fought Steve A, I was able to elevate him

because of the name recognition I got from fighting John.

Look, the elephant in the room, I saw what Demetrius Johnson says, because John Jones, the steroid, is tied to his name, he can't be in the GOAT conference.

I don't believe that.

I don't believe that he should be considered the greatest of all time.

I've said that.

You can't,

Shannon, steroids.

Yes.

In fighting is much different than anything else in the world.

They make you stronger.

They make you faster.

They give you endurance.

Recovery ability when you're trained.

That's what you, that's what it, that's mainly what steroids do.

It allows you to go there and go hard and go hard tomorrow and go hard the day after and go hard the day after and go hard the day after.

That's when you grow.

That's when you become better.

Yep.

Because it gets to a point where you're like, damn,

I can't give you everything today.

Yes, but you can go back to back to back.

And that was me at 36, right?

Even though I was the best I could ever be, the best I could ever be, I'm working as hard as I could ever work in my life, knowing that I have to be ready.

At 36, he's 28, right?

So he's in his prime.

He's in his prime, but that's the fight that he actually tested positive and they made it a no contest.

So while he's doing that, it's like, like you said, he's able to keep up with me work-wise, but exceed it.

Because at a point, I got to say, hey, coach, I got to take a morning, man.

I need it.

I have to take a morning.

And I don't know that he would need to do that.

Yeah, so I don't, I don't, I don't, uh, did you suspect at the time when you were in there with him that there's something that might not be on the up and up?

No, no, no, no, no.

I didn't suspect.

He felt like him.

He felt like he was always strong.

Right.

He was always strong.

He was always big.

He was always in shape.

It wasn't nothing that surprised me.

What sucked was that, was that I felt like I moved past it, right?

Like, okay, this dude beat me twice, this shit's over.

Like, there's nothing I'm gonna do to be the champ because if I can't beat him, nobody else is beating him.

That was the truth, right?

I was like, yo, if I ain't beating him, the rest of these dudes ain't beating him because I know how much.

Right.

Because when I fight the other ones,

I destroy them.

Right.

Right?

Because

they don't have the toolbox he got now.

Exactly.

And plus, he's 6'5 ⁇ , 6'4 and a half.

He's long, long limbs, limbs, and he, like, he has it all.

I mean, you can elbow.

You can knee.

If you write a checkbook, a checklist of what you want in a fighter at 205 to heavyweight, John Jones.

They're talking about the White House.

They're talking about a White House fight card.

Hey, man, we got to have some Americans win.

Yes.

I don't like John Jones.

It's no secret.

The whole world knows it.

I say, man, y'all better put John Jones on there.

Because right now we ain't got one American in the top 10 pound for pounds.

I said, if y'all want an American dude to go get a victory, put John Jones in there because he's going to win.

That's what he does.

But at the end of the day, I still don't believe, and I agree with DJ, it's like you just can't have that tied to your name, especially in fighting.

Right.

And people call you the greatest of all time.

He's the greatest talent the sport has ever seen.

Have we ever, that's what I was about to ask you.

Have we ever seen someone in that sport that possessed the arsenal that he had?

No.

No, he's by far the, he's by far the most talented person that we've had in mixed martial arts.

In terms of his length, his skills, his mind, he's the most talented guy we've ever had.

We've had great fighters.

Demetrius Johnson was amazing.

Khabib is amazing.

But Khabib did it through grit, determination, and hard work.

Khabib wasn't going to run a basketball and shoot it.

John Jones, they got a video of John Jones trying to dunk a basketball.

You should see that.

That is bad.

But obviously, he's an athlete.

Look at his family.

Yes.

Right.

Yeah, he's got two brothers playing in that family.

Yeah.

He's the best athlete we've ever had.

In terms of the best fighter of all time, I would never give that because of that.

Now,

he's not the only guy I fought on steroids.

I think that before they started doing all that testing,

all those guys were doing steroids.

Really?

I really do.

They just, I mean, many of them had popped for steroids before, and I fought them.

And they had figured out a way how to cycle on and off.

So cycle on and off, or

cycle on and off or they just weren't testing.

Right.

I never took a drug test until I got into the UFC.

I just went and fought.

So I don't know what those guys were doing.

There was a guy.

They said that this guy got tested positive for something.

They said USADA, who was the testing commissioner at the time, bro,

they got a bit like.

I know when they're coming.

They would come at 6 a.m.

in the morning.

And

I got tested 65 times from USADA from wrestling to then.

But look at me.

I'm not on steroids.

Yeah.

But you're hitting the numbers.

I said that publicly one time way back in the day.

The next time they came to my house at 4 o'clock in the afternoon.

So they were watching.

But because they had gotten repetitive, they heard fighters doing it.

One guy popped for something, Shannon.

They got him at 10 p.m.

They said if they would have let him go to bed and wake up the next morning, they could have tested him, it'd have been gone.

12 hours,

12 hours for that to get out of his system.

It's crazy the level of stuff they have out there.

Well, it's just like anything.

I mean, they're going to come up with something that's in and out.

They got these peptides now.

See?

And you didn't think it was going to be.

You thought you was going to have all that bite to it.

I don't drink.

No, it don't got any bite.

It don't have any bite.

But the viral video of you finding out that he tests positive and

you feel like you were just so broken hearted.

Heartbroken.

It's like losing your first girlfriend.

I had a girlfriend growing up, and me and her, we went crazy, right?

You have sex for the first time.

It is all you want to do.

I'm checking myself out of school, man, to go meet this girl.

She's checking herself out of school.

She's up in the middle of the night on the phone because her mom doesn't let her use the phone.

Our parents took us together.

They found out what we were doing.

They sat us in the front yard and told us we could not see each other anymore.

That made yourself.

That's what it felt like.

Let me tell you something.

I'm on the city bus getting over that bit.

I'm there.

I'll get my 35 cents.

I'm going to her house.

Soon's the mama go to work.

And you said.

It was like that.

I will sign a waiver.

I want to fight him.

Heartbroken because I know how hard I had worked.

Again, it was just like Anaheim.

I worked so hard to prepare myself.

We are, when you're fighting,

that's your business partner.

Imagine.

You're playing the Kansas City Chiefs

and on Sunday, they just don't show up.

Think about it.

We're done practicing all week.

Yeah, they just don't show up.

But your game check is tied to them showing up.

Yes.

Now you're like, hey, man, you're hurting my business.

I didn't know what the first check looked like when we fought.

I want that second check.

Next check.

And then hopefully we go a third time.

You know what I'm saying?

It's like

that was the hurt of it.

And then it was UFC 200.

Man, we were on Good Morning America together.

It was big.

And I was like, man, we need a...

It was hard.

I was heartbroken because it's not just me.

It was my entire team that worked so hard to make sure I was prepared to fight that night.

So, yeah, I said, I'll sign whatever I need to.

But Dana was like, come on.

Dana was like, you can't do that.

You could tell he didn't want to tell me that.

You could tell it was like, he was like, can I talk to you?

I was like, what do you need me to, what do you need?

I was staying at the MGM's signature because I always stayed like at that small little one on the side.

He goes, can you come over to the arena right now?

And I was like, why?

I was like, it's two in the afternoon.

He goes, I want you to, I have to talk to you about something really important.

So I walk over with my team and he's in the back in that hallway and he tells me and he goes, we have to talk to the media.

I was like, damn,

everything's in place.

And I didn't know.

I was still just going about my day like I was going to go cut weight to make for the fight.

And he was like, you have to address the media.

It's horrible.

I was up there crying and shit.

Yeah, I know.

Man, DZ, what you crying for?

DZ crying.

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Every time

all these needs to do is cry.

cry i done got me crying multiple times did you drive home from from from or did you fly after you found out that the fight no no no i fought i fought remember i fought anderson silver two days later oh they got anderson to fight yeah which was good i actually i got to fight anderson silver which was awesome but thank god anderson said yes yes not many people would have done it no no not two days no but but is it hard because you're fighting a fight because a lot i've seen people take fights on short notice and kick the other fighter ass because he's not prepared to fight that guy.

You prepared to fight a guy with one style and this guy has a different style and you're like, and something bad could have happened.

So I was surprised you even took that.

So I took the fight because I want, dude, I wanted to fight badly.

Like, when you

want to fight.

You want the chick.

You want to fight.

You want the chick, but you want to fight.

Right.

Because that's what you do.

I took all that weight.

I was already 215 pounds.

Like, I don't want to go through all that.

Right.

And then two months they go, you got to do it again.

Right.

Because as a champion, I would fight two times a year, max.

So I'm like, I don't want to have to go through that again.

So

I fought Anderson.

And it wasn't a great fight because, again, I was so nervous.

Dude, I was in the octagon.

I looked across and I was like, the very first UFC I ever went to, I went to Philadelphia to watch Anderson Silver beat Forrest Griffin.

And I mean, Anderson was flexing on him.

He's like moving sideways, punching him with one hand.

Forrest is just falling down.

He finishes the guy that was the UFC light heavyweight champion.

I was like, damn, this is crazy.

I'm fighting Anderson.

I'm in the octagon.

I go to the middle.

When I walk back to the Sasha, I look behind me and I said, oh my God, that's actually Anderson Silver standing over there.

Like, seriously.

I'm really fighting a legend.

I'm really fighting Anderson Silver.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was the first, I've never had that happen to me in my life.

It was always somebody's got to die.

Except for when I fought Anderson, I was like, you're like, I don't want to beat this one.

I got to fight Anderson Silver.

But then once I got, then I started trying to kick him.

No,

Shay, I never had that problem.

You You don't take it easy, though, don't you?

Dan Henderson was my idol.

He was on the Olympic team.

I choke him unconscious.

Damn, decent.

I beat the shit out of him.

You don't feel bad?

Hell no.

Somebody got to die?

Shay, somebody got to get it.

Right?

Will you play your brother in football?

If you play Sturdy.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We grew up.

Oh, you want to lose?

No, I'm trying to kill him.

I'm trying to kill him.

And we love you.

And tell him about it afterwards.

Yes.

John retires.

And everybody's like, hold on, bro.

You retired.

And then two weeks later, you're talking about you in protocol again, testing protocol.

Yeah.

That pissed you off, didn't it?

So when he retired,

it didn't.

I just wanted him to, I wanted to see him fight Tom Aspinall.

I just want him to, I want to see him fight Tom Aspin.

Aspinall that good?

He good, Shannon.

He literally has everything you want in the heavyweight.

He's big, he's physical, he can wrestle, he's fast.

Michael Bisbank

once said to me, oh man, I'm telling you, he could be like Muhammad Aliyah MMA.

I said, man, you're going crazy.

I said, you're a person that works at the company.

You're a person that people take your opinion seriously.

Seriously.

You cannot be that strong on one side.

He goes, I swear it's true.

He's fighting a guy named Sergei, who had knocked out 10 straight people.

Nobody can go around with Sergei.

Tom Aspenox knocks him out in a round, walks into the thing and hugs Michael Bisbing.

I was like, I thought, I said, Bisming, I thought you were like his advocate.

You advocating for this dude.

But I'm like, he's actually that good.

And then he beats up on Curtis Blades.

He beats everybody.

And so when I think about it, I'm like, okay, now we get to see John.

Because

John and I did this thing called Counter Punch, where he sat on one side, I sat on the other with Joe Rogan.

And John said,

it was so, it was crazy because we just hated each other so much.

We were just talking.

Right.

John said to me, he said,

at the end of the day,

I'm better than you because I'm younger.

He goes,

you can't beat me in the basketball game.

I go, well, that's debatable.

You cannot swim me.

You cannot run me.

He said, because every day you wake up, you're a day older, and you look in the mirror and you see a 36-year-old man.

And I look in, I'm in my absolute prime.

I'm 28.

He said, you can't be better than me because the laws of life don't allow for a 36-year-old man to be better than a 28-year-old man when we're doing the same thing.

Tom Aspinall is 30 now.

John Jones is 38.

I want to see it on the opposite side.

Because he said, and he said, well, he should be favored because, you know, he's much younger.

And I've heard you and other fighters say, well, you were.

The whole time.

The older guy gave you an opportunity.

He dropped the ladder.

So return the favor and give this guy.

You don't think there's any chance that John can beat him?

I do.

That's the problem.

If I had, I said to to my, I said, gun to my head, if I had to choose, I would probably say John Jones would win.

Wow.

It's all I've seen him do.

I've seen him fight.

He's right.

He's everyone.

This is always the next best guy.

This guy's going to beat me.

This guy's going to beat John Jones.

And what does John do?

He vanquishes him.

He beats him.

They say that about Gusfield?

They said it about Guss.

Say it about me.

Say it about Rashad.

Say it about Rampage.

Say it about Cyril Gon.

I mean, he dirty Cyril Gon up.

I mean, the man had been away for 100 years and walked through Cyril Gon like he was like Cyril Gon was me.

That was embarrassing.

That was DC.

DC, that was embarrassing.

Look,

DC, that was embarrassing.

I be trying to stay off of Cyril, man, because I like Cyril.

Yo, when Cyril's on the ground and he looked at him like,

I was like, he looked like he saw a ghost.

He was so in awe of John that he couldn't even compete with him.

I was like, bro.

He about to fight for the world title again.

Imagine if Cyril Gon went to John go, okay, okay, I'm back.

Yeah.

Boy, that would piss somebody off.

That would piss people off.

Because if Cyril beats Tom, because he's Cyril is that good.

He is.

He's that good.

He could beat Tom Aspinau.

No, but Dana ain't gonna let that happen.

What if John's like, yo,

you know, Dana won't let that happen.

Dana will not let John come back and fight Cyril Garn for the heavyweight title.

He's like, no, no, no, you got to fight.

That's the ultimate move of all time.

I would laugh at that shit.

I would be happy.

Like, John, do you, you'll be cold for that one.

Yeah.

Okay.

You say you can't put John as your GOAT.

Give me a Mount Rushmore fighters.

Demetrius Johnson.

Okay.

George St.

Pierre.

Okay.

Kabib.

Kabib was undefeated.

Nobody be him.

Fourth,

God, that's where it gets tough.

That's where it gets tough.

Because you feel like you want to put, like, when we talk about just accomplishments, no one's more accomplished than Amanda Nunes.

Right.

Can I really put her on the Mount Rushmore of fighting?

But George, Demetrius, Khabib,

God, there are some good guys.

Chuck Liddell was good, man.

Chuck Liddell is kind of responsible for us being here.

Randy Coutour won two titles in his bracket.

I think that fourth place would belong to one of those guys, I think.

Somebody like that, because

I can't put, I would never put myself up there.

Right.

Right.

Right.

But I'm like right in that four to seven range of.

I thought you might put Anderson.

Anderson had the,

Anderson had the steroids.

Yeah.

Right?

Like, so, like, I can't put Anderson.

Like, I would like to put Anderson.

If I'm saying all those guys included, then obviously John and Anderson are on that Mount Rushmore.

But I don't do that.

I refuse to.

It's not in fighting.

Barry Bonds was in a Hall of Famer before he even went to San Francisco.

Correct.

Right?

Yeah.

Plus, he's hitting with a baseball bat.

He's not punching someone in the face.

Women fighters,

what did Ronda Rousey

do for MMA?

Everything for women.

Dana on record said, I will never have women fighting in the USC or something very close to that.

Then Rhonda came along and she just opened up the floodgates.

And now Dana goes in his life, very rarely does he make decisions where he's like,

I really messed up.

He openly goes, Ronda Rousey coming in and making me take on female fighting is one one of the best decisions I've ever made.

Right.

Because it gave me Amanda Nunes.

It gave me Zhang Wi Li, Valentina Shevchenko.

It's like all these women have an opportunity because of Ronda.

No, Ronda Rousey.

Like, I don't know if women still today fight in the UFC.

That's how important she is.

Could she have been better?

I think she was at the right time also.

The girls just weren't well-rounded enough to compete with her.

And when she got somebody that was well-rounded.

You saw what Amanda did to her.

I saw Holly Holmes kicked her in her head.

Holly kicked her in the head.

That was probably the beginning of the end, wasn't it?

Yeah.

You know, again, like, you know, when it's done.

But at the end is when the money gets better than it's ever been.

So yeah, she couldn't have beat him.

If she couldn't have beaten Holly, she was not going to beat Amanda.

No.

But I think it was just such a great pull to have her back that she didn't.

You mentioned this, the UFC at the White House.

Dana, look, I was at the, when they had it at the sphere.

Oh, you went, huh?

I went.

It was amazing.

It was amazing.

And I wouldn't put anything.

If Dana say they're going to have a fight on the moon,

I don't know what airline flying to the point, but it's going to happen.

It's going to happen.

If he says they're going to have it on the White House lawn,

now I don't know how they're going to pat everybody down and frisk everybody and do background checks because maybe it's just closed circuit and there really only a handful of staff there.

No, no, I think it's going to be an event.

They said they want 20,000 in there.

At the White House?

At the White House.

They got an Easter egg hunt at the White House where they put 28,000 on the Eastern.

But them kids.

I didn't.

Hey.

Shannon, I swear to God.

Shannon, I swear to God.

I was not believing it until I saw that they have that Easter egg hunt.

I was like, wow, well, then it's possible.

Because right now, when Trump goes to a fight,

we get background checks.

Yes.

The night before they go to the arena, they're sweeping it.

They sweep it.

They sweep it.

The morning of the fight.

They sweep it before he shows up.

I don't know.

But

I told Dana this recently.

We were in New Orleans and I said, you're going to the White House for real.

He goes,

I said,

because you said we got a year, we're a year away.

He was talking about something on an interview and he goes, we still got a year.

The world's going to change in MMA by that point.

I said, you're speaking in definites.

I go, this is happening.

Yeah.

We're going to go watch a fight at the White House.

That's crazy.

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You said, look, we don't have really any Americans in the pound for pound top 10.

And we just can't have, you know, barners coming in and winning all the fights

at the White House.

No, we got to.

So you got to put John Jones.

Cap Johnny.

Call Cap.

But I'm calling them Captain America.

But somebody got to win.

But Dana wants for sure things, knows that guys are going to be, he can count on.

I think he's going to fight at the White House.

He has to.

He has to fight at the White House.

Aspinall?

John.

I mean,

I don't know why he won't fight this dude.

I said this the other day.

If I was still fighting, I'd have fought Tom Aspinall already.

I just would have did it.

The bigger the challenge, the better.

Go prove yourself.

But I don't know why he'll do it, but he might have to fight Tom Aspinall.

Like you said, Dana's going to make him fight Tom.

I mean, how much money would they need for DC to come out of retirement to fight in the White House?

Yeah, I'm not fighting.

He got 20 million for you.

I'm still not doing a shit.

Say, I can't train.

I can't train.

I go live, dude.

I'm doing CrossFit.

I was just today practicing how I'm going to do sumo

deadlifts.

I'm like, I'm doing sumo deadlifts.

I'm like, I'm just getting excited to go do my sumo deadlifts.

Say, yeah, I can't fight because I can't.

I can't.

I was sparring the other day.

I started a team of guys that I'm training, helping create their careers.

I was sparring.

One of them punched me in my rib with a straight right hand.

Boom, right here.

Dude, it was the most painful shot I'd taken.

My rib come out, right?

My rib come out.

I'm in pain, shan.

I can't get off my couch.

I'm just like, oh, every time I get off my couch, I'm rolling to my knees to then push up because I can't squeeze my core.

Every time I squeeze my core, it hurts.

Man,

I go take a nap.

I'm just sleeping, I guess.

And because I'm sleeping, rolling, I sleep, I roll over the top of it, pop it back in place.

But I'm like, I couldn't do this every day like I used to.

I always had separated ribs or black eyes.

I just couldn't do that anymore.

This life is too comfortable, what I do now.

You make a good living.

You don't need to go punch, kick.

I don't want to fight no more, man.

Plus, like, come on, go put some pads on.

Go tackle somebody.

No, no, no.

You know what I'm saying?

You don't have to be two artificial heels, bowling, bowling.

I'm good.

The pain is too great.

I think that's what people take for granted like how great the pain is that we endure to do what we did right it sucks i mean before i got my hips replaced dc i just thought the pain that i was in was normal because i had dealt with it for so long yeah and you get and you like okay this is my new normal and then the doctor says no you don't have to live like that how much better does it feel a thousand Really?

I mean, there was no position that I could get in that was comfortable.

If I lay down, it hurt.

If I stood, if it hurt.

It walked, walked, it hurt.

Sitting, hurt.

Standing too long, it hurt.

There was no position in which my body didn't hurt.

My hips didn't hurt.

That's bad.

I don't have that.

Thank God I don't have that.

Yeah.

Because that shit seems so bad.

It is.

What about Conor McGregor at the White House?

Okay, shit.

Man, it's over.

It's over for him.

It's over, dog.

Man, this dude, Conor McGregor, he is tripping.

Conor McGregor is tripping.

He made too much money, huh?

He made way too much.

He went from plumbing to making, he sold that liquor for, what, 500 million?

Yeah.

It's too much.

Right.

He got 100 million for fighting Florida.

He got 100 million for fighting Florida.

Then he was doing pay-per-views like nothing.

Him and Khabib did 2.5 million pay-per-views.

These dudes, he made too much money.

Connor says he wants to fight all the time.

And everybody kind of, they jump to it.

But it's like he wants to stay relevant.

He wants to stay in the news.

He wants to stay he wants the notoriety of being conor mcgregor without having to be right conor mcgregor right and that kind of sucks because when he was the man

i bet you tapped in oh yeah i bet you tapped into the ufc more than

because he could sell a fight he could sell a fight he could sell it but

him and khabib was the best did you think he was just one-dimensional and that's why he was good he was very good but when he when they got him on the ground dc he couldn't get up they couldn't get him on the ground yeah they did kabib got him on the the ground.

That Khabib was a different person, though.

Him and Khabib really didn't like each other.

You know, sometimes you're like, oh, we just sell in the fight.

But it seemed that

it was a little more to it.

Like, he, like, Khabib sincerely and genuinely did not like Connor.

He won't say his name still today.

He still does not say his name.

Because of what he said about his religion and about his dad.

He still won't say his name.

Last week he did an interview in New York.

He says, this guy, he'll never say his name.

He hates him.

Dude, they're in the octagon and Connor goes, he whispers after the third round, after Khabib's be, it's just business.

Khabib goes, no, it ain't.

No, it ain't.

You don't mess with them dudes, man.

Them Russian dudes there.

And then when he, like, when he had him,

the ref had to do a little bit extra.

DC, you saw that, DC.

He wasn't going to let him go.

He wasn't going to let him go.

He was going to put him to sleep, Shannon.

He was holding him and he said, I kicked your ass.

I kicked your ass.

And he kind of was like, then he jumped over the fence.

Yes.

And try to beat his team.

He's not, I was like, whoa.

But dude, he had him.

He was not going to let him go because he felt so, his family got so disrespected by this dude that he wanted to end them.

And honestly, sometimes you bite off more than you can chew.

Yeah.

Because

Connor got beat bad that night.

He did.

He got beat bad.

I mean,

but here's the thing that shocked a lot of people.

Connor made Khabib.

He really did make Khabib the biggest, a bigger star.

Yeah.

Like we talked about.

Right.

Me and Jones.

Khabib went from, I think he had two or three million followers on Instagram.

The next morning, 10 million.

Wow.

After that fight and all that happened.

10 million.

Crazy.

$7 million a night?

That's a big jump.

You think Khabib would come out of retirement?

Khabib told me, we did a thing a while back where Khabib said they offered him $40 million to fight.

He said, no.

He ain't coming back.

If they offered him $40 million, he hasn't come back yet, he ain't coming back.

No, no, he ain't that.

Well, they have if they bet in Dagger Stan, you can make a million dollars and be good for the rest of your life, yeah, right in that place.

Well, if they offered Khabib 40 million, what'd they offer John Jones to fight Aspino?

I think they offered John said he wanted 30, and I think they got the money.

They got 30 for him, he said, No,

they got 30 for me.

He said, Hey, let me tell you something.

I just told you, I'm barbecue meat.

30?

All of a sudden, you don't hurt me.

30?

Shit.

I might test positive after it's over.

What is it about Dagestan that the guys they can wrestle?

Now, look, I've seen somebody follow somebody like those wrestler wrestlers.

Yeah.

They really, I'm talking about those guys that go to the Olympics.

That's a whole different level of wrestling down there.

Them dudes.

How did they get so good?

They just, so over there, they put them in wrestling.

They put them in both styles.

Then, at like five, six years old, they identify like where a kid's gonna be better, and that's all they do all the way up through school.

Khabib and Islam started doing sambo when they were super young together, right?

Right with his dad.

So, their whole life they did combat sample.

Combat sample was actually like gee tops punching, yeah, grappling.

Like

they were essentially doing MMA as like kids, right?

And then

just keep getting better.

I think,

I

I think for my son,

right,

to

have the mentality that I have or had,

it's impossible.

His life's too comfortable.

Yeah, okay.

His life's too comfortable.

You and your brother and your to your children, they can't even make themselves think like you did growing up where you grew up and how you grew up.

Right.

So it's like

they all live like that.

Because while Khabib,

I want to see Khabib's son and then the next Islam's son.

Then we could see how it does over there.

Because for them, it was the way to live and change all of their

lives.

Just like us.

Yes.

Right?

It's like, yes.

We're almost like desperate.

So one of my kids like playing football and he's like, I want to do this and I want to do this.

I go, well, you got to be at every practice.

You got to go with your individual coach.

Like, you got to go on Sunday whenever you go do all your speed and agility.

You have to get up early in the morning to lift weights.

I go because while you are living where you live and how you live, there's a kid like me

that's doing the same thing, but without the fallback of what my dad did to make sure that I'm okay when all this is done.

So I don't know that we can,

how does Christian McCaffrey develop the mentality that his father had?

Unless his father came with a whole promotion.

You know, Ed.

Maybe he had a whole bunch of money.

But I don't know how does he develop that mentality?

I'm a firm believer when I look at the Mannings.

Yep, them.

Archie Manning and

Peyton and Eli.

They just teach him.

Yeah.

I mean, it's something special for you to, for

your dad to have and says, no, I want to get it.

See, I still have a healthy respect for Bronnie.

Yes.

Because he still, you know,

the likelihood of you having a historically or a transcendent great parent and then the child be equally as transcendent and great.

It's just not going to happen.

If great Ken Griffey, Karen Griffey Sr.

was a good baseball player, but he wasn't junior.

No, he wasn't.

Bobby Bonds was an unbelievable player.

He wasn't Barry.

Nope.

Nope.

And so to ask, Kareem has son, Magic got some, to ask their sons, their product, to be just what you're, it ain't happening.

So for the dad, for Ken Griffey Jr.

and Barry, Their dads were good.

Yes.

They just weren't them.

They weren't them.

So the second one was better.

Yes.

But to ask the next one to be better than the one that's the greatest.

Just imagine Barry Bond's son being Barry Bond's or better.

No.

It's like Vladimir Guerrero.

Yeah.

He was really good.

But his son now is

with the same name.

Yes.

With the same name, better than his dad.

That's crazy.

So for him to have another one that does that will be very hard.

But like, so

Where's like where's Peyton's son?

Where's Eli's son?

Yeah, he Peyton said his son went to his camp a couple weeks ago.

I saw that.

Yes.

But is he a son?

It's going to be very, I mean, come on.

It's going to be hard.

Yes.

Tom has a son.

Yep.

But here's the thing.

But Archie is good, but it's the other son.

It's the other son.

Right.

So just imagine

Tom Brady's son, Benjamin,

being as good as Tom.

God ain't fit to bless you like that, bro.

I'm sorry.

He ain't finna bless you like that.

I don't think so, man.

It's hard.

Yes.

But even for LeBron James Jr.

Yes.

LeBron James Jr.

To be in the NBA, it's nuts.

And then to have another one that's supposed to be even better than the other one.

Yes.

But

to expect them, and I think the thing is.

LeBron's done everything right.

Yes.

But to expect a child to be LeBron or Kareem's son to be him or Magic son to be him.

Come on, bro.

That's not to happen.

LeBron James Jr.,

if he can stay in the the league for 10 years, that to me would be astounding.

Because, and he will.

He will.

Yes.

But to be in there 10 years after what your dad did, with all that pressure, from the moment he picked up a basketball, there was pressure on him.

Because the expectation you got to be.

Because everybody knows who your dad is.

My son would wrestle, and I would see people,

my kid just beat DC's son.

I'm like, but that ain't D.C.

It's not.

You didn't beat me, right?

I just beat DC's boy.

I had Karen Griffith Jr.

on, and when his son Trey was coming up, he played baseball, and the people in the stand would say, he ain't his dad.

And his dad would say, name five people who are.

Ooh.

Ooh, I like that.

So

what would they say then?

They couldn't say anything.

I mean, I wasn't, you know, he was an MVP.

I mean, he.

He did everything.

Yes.

He's one of the greatest.

He's one of the greatest players.

I mean, the sweetest swing ever.

600 home.

Come on.

He ain't going to be him.

No.

It's okay.

But the kid has to accept that.

That it's okay.

And a lot of people,

we were having a conversation about my brother.

I embraced it.

See, I never lived in the shadow.

I embraced it.

Every number he had, I got the exact same number.

He was three in high school.

I was three in high school.

He was two in college.

I was two in college.

He was 84.

I was 84.

Every card that he had, I got.

So I never looked at it like, and when people told me, man, you're not going to be like your brother, like, watch.

Watch me.

Watch.

But not many people have that.

Yeah, they shouldn't.

Not many people have that dog in them like that.

Like, there's a dog about that mentality that most people don't have.

Yes.

Especially a kid that wakes up and he's sleeping in a beautiful home with everything he ever wants in his life.

Like, it's hard for that kid to go.

My kid gets up in the morning at 6.30, three days a week, and he lifts weights.

My kid does wrestling practice at 2 o'clock in the afternoon.

Then he goes to football practice at 5.30 in the afternoon.

He does that four days a week.

Then on Sundays, he meets with his private coach to do football training where he does speed and agility.

He catches passes.

He goes through his coverages and his reads.

For me, that's my son going, Dad, I want to try to do something great.

I say, Pop, if it works, awesome.

If it doesn't, you gave yourself a chance.

That's it.

You took advantage of every opportunity you had, everything that we have accrued, you used to try to better yourself.

If it works, great.

If it doesn't, you never skipped out on the work.

That's all I care about.

And I'm fine with that.

And maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.

But he's given himself a chance, even though he doesn't have to.

That's what I love.

Good.

Let me ask you, how did you and Khabib become such great fans?

That's my boy right there, man.

He walked into the gym.

He walked into the gym by himself.

King Mola Wall

brought him from New Jersey.

He wanted to come and train with all the wrestlers.

Barely spoke a lick of English.

Walked in the gym, stayed at an extended Stay America right up the street from aka.

And he would walk back and forth by himself from the hotel to the practice.

And on his first day, I was like, oh, a little Russian kid, because I spent a lot of time there when I was wrestling.

We started kind of talking a little bit, and it just, it grew.

And then I just understand how much of a, he's like a really good human being.

He's a good person, real strong values, and

he's the best.

I think he's the best fighter ever.

Really?

I do.

Yeah, I do.

I saw a kid that came in there with limited striking.

He told you exactly what he was going to do every single time.

And he did it.

He was beating Michael Johnson up one time, telling him, brother, you know I deserve a title fight.

You need to give up.

Like,

that's how dominant.

And he sat in the pocket with a Connor and knocked Connor down.

He knocked him down.

After Connor had boxed Floyd Mayweather for nine rounds, he stood with him and knocked him down.

Yeah, I think he's the best man.

I think he's

he just stands for something so much bigger than just fighting.

And I think he, like, I think he, I think he, uh,

I think he, he, I think he obviously elevates the people around him, which is very important.

But he also is like a, he's like a guiding light for a lot of people that follow him.

Right.

And he does things the right way.

Right.

There's this viral clip going around that he refuses to shake this lady's hand out of respect for his wife.

Yep.

And for

his religion.

And if you know his religion,

that's the way it is.

That's the way it is.

Right.

But not many men are willing to do that, especially in that moment.

Right?

Kate Scott.

Kate Scott.

She's a great analyst.

Yes.

But I think the reason it got so odd was because that kid reacted the way that he did.

There was a YouTube kid that was up there with him.

And he kind of was like, oh, my God, like, speed.

I show speed.

And the way he acted was like, because he shook everyone's hand.

But then he just politely said,

and then I'm pretty sure he explained it to her afterwards.

Yes.

And then, but again,

it's live TV, right?

Things happen.

But that's respect to his wife.

And then

honestly, respect to Kate.

It's actually a respectful gesture to the person.

Right.

You're refusing to shake hands because he, as a married man, should not shake the hand of another woman.

Wow.

What separate Russian fighters from American fighters?

I don't think that, I don't think that,

I don't think that is much more to it than

just the

that

need to change their lives.

Yeah.

Right?

Their need.

I mean,

even

even

not not, I'm not talking homeless.

Like, I'm not talking like transient people that are living on the street, but even our upbringing, even mine, where I lived in

small house after small house when I was younger.

Yeah.

Then my parents did all they could to move us into a big house to where they bought their first house for $10,000.

It wasn't a great house, but it was theirs.

That's still better

than what they have over there.

They're like, it's all concrete, just concrete stuff.

So yeah, it's like, I think it's just that mentality of need to get better that makes allows for those guys to kind of just elevate themselves a little more.

Because even my upbringing, and I thought that I had it tough, was better than what they have there.

And you know what people are willing to do to change their lives.

For sure.

Yeah.

This concludes the first half of my conversation.

Part two is also posted, and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listen to part one on.

Just simply go back to Club Sheter profile, and I'll see you there.

This is an iHeart podcast.