Club Shay Shay - Tyronn Lue Part 1

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LeBron James is on an expiring contract.

I'm surprised by that.

You know, he posted a video he was was working at the Clipper facilities.

Yeah, I know, I seen that.

Yeah, I saw that.

What that means?

I don't even know if I can speak on that.

Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price.

Want a slice, got the roll of dice.

That's why.

All my life, I've been grinding all my life.

Sacrifice, hustle paid the price.

Want a slice.

Got the roll of dice.

That's why.

All my life.

I've been grinding all my life.

Hello, welcome to another episode of Club Sheche.

I am your host, Shannon Sharp.

I'm also the repride of Club Shecher.

Stopping by for conversation on the drink today, he's a two-time NBA champion as a player for the Los Angeles Lakers.

He's the coach that authored the greatest comeback in finals history with his team down 3-1 with two of the last three games on the road.

And don't forget that the Warriors team had the best regular season record in NBA history at 73-9.

He helped helped the Cleveland Cavaliers win the first and only NBA title.

He's the Olympic gold medal winning coach, first team all in Big 12 point guard selection.

His number 10 is retired by the University of Nebraska.

He has a street named after himself in his hometown of Mexico, Missouri.

The current head coach of the Los Angeles Clippers that led them to the first ever conference finals.

Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Tyron Lou.

Teen Lou, what do you do, man?

How you doing?

I'm good, bro.

When growing up in Mexico, Missouri, if somebody would have told 10-year-old Ty Lou,

you're going to be an NBA player and you're going to play on with two of the greatest players in NBA history.

You'll later become a head coach and you'll be author the greatest comeback in NBA Finals history.

If somebody would have told 10-year-old Tyron Lou that, what would you have told him?

Hell no.

Hell no.

But, I mean, you know, you always dream and dream big.

You know, you put the work in, but to like come this far from, you know, where I come from, it's just, it's crazy.

It's crazy to believe.

And, like I said, been blessed, like I've talked about it all the time, just, you know, come from Mexico, Missouri, a small town where we call it one way in, no way out.

Right.

You know, and so to make it out and be able to help the people I'd be able to help is just a blessing.

You know, my brother tells a story all the time.

It's like coming from rural South Georgia, where there's really no one that you like, if you're in LA, you might see someone that you might aspire to be like, or you come from a big Chicago or New York, you might bump into a Jay-Z or you see a Kanye.

But when you're from a small rural town and there's really no one from that hometown that's ever gotten out and become what we call be on television or be on the radio, how hard was it for you to find motivation to want to leave Mexico, Missouri?

It was hard, but I idolized my uncle Jay Graves.

Okay.

You know, he played basketball.

He wore number 10, so I wanted to wear number 10.

And he just taught me a lot about the game.

But like you said, it was no one to look up to and idolize because TV wasn't, you know, games on TV wasn't big back then.

Right.

You know, so you just kind of had to pick the people who you wanted to be like.

And outside of my uncle, the other guys I want to be like, it wouldn't have been going in the right direction.

Yeah, yeah, you'd have never left Mexico.

Could you see them with all the cars, with all the money?

And, you know, that's kind of like what you inspire to be.

Right.

You know, just having money, just being able to do what you wanted to do.

And so I was, you know, like I said, blessed and thankful that I was able to get out.

Fast forward, here we are now.

You're the head coach of the Clippers.

Big acquisitions this offseason.

You make the trade for Bradley Bill.

Chris Paul comes back after, what, four or five years away from the Clippers.

Kawhi seems to be finally healthy because he started to play really, really well down the stretch last year.

James Harden, you re-sign him.

The Bill, the Chris Paul, are those the missing ingredients?

What do you guys need to do?

Because OKC ain't going nowhere.

Houston traded for that seven-foot monster.

We know he's with the elite score.

And when you pair him with what they already got, Shingoon, and they got Van Pleet, and they got Thompson.

What do you guys need to do, T.

Lou, to make sure you guys are playing in the conference finals with a chance to go to the NBA Finals?

I think the biggest thing for us is just health.

I think,

you know, when you start the season and your best players, you know, aren't available when it hurts, you know, you got to play a different style of basketball until they're able to come back.

And that kind of hurt us last year.

Like, we had to play a style just to win games to try to stay afloat.

We really didn't have a flow or system how we wanted to play because our best player was out.

He played, played, I think, 37 games last year.

And like, I think eight or nine of them was at 20-minute restriction.

You know, so

we leaned a lot on James.

James was great.

You know, Zoo was great.

Yes.

Nick Batoon.

I mean,

Norman Powell was great.

And then Derrick Jones Jr.

had a career year.

Chris Dunn had a career year.

So guys stepped up and we took on a mentality and we took on like a...

like we're going to be a defensive-minded tough team.

And that's who we became.

So James led the way, I think, with his leadership.

i think norm you know being a score the way he did zubach you know being getting went to another level yeah went to another level um i thought was good for us and we had identity it was defense and then when kawhi came back you know you try to integrate him into something that's been working you know now you get your best player back it's kind of tough you know to do that because they've been playing one way and now you drag this guy in yeah so this year like i said just starting camp Kawhi's healthy, and we know when he has a camp and he's healthy, he's a monster.

James is back.

We've got Brooke Lopez, you know, who's huge for us.

I think another big body, we can throw a Joker.

You know, we're playing against Denver.

Like, you know, when Zoo's out of the game, we've always been small.

And so he's punished us inside, you know, being able to score.

And we had a double team.

Now he's picked me apart with passing.

So just for us being healthy, I think for majority of the season, I think we got a chance to do some special things.

Does Bradley Beal coming in, does he replace what you lost with Norman Powell because you had to move Norman Powell?

He moves on.

And Powell, he's explosive.

He's an explosive scorer.

Now, we know where Bradley Beal was in Washington.

He went to the all-star game.

He averaged 30 for a couple of years.

So we know he can score.

But that's not necessarily what you need from him.

Yeah, I think, you know, Norm, like I said, led a team in scoring last year and had a career year.

He was phenomenal.

And you lose a guy like Norm.

It's always tough to make up for that.

But Bradley Beal, like you said, who's been a perennial all-star, who's averaged 30 a couple of times in his career,

he's definitely going to be a big help for us offensively.

So we're going to need him to score.

But outside of scoring, we're going to need him to make plays for other guys too because he's going to draw two or three guys and he can make a pass, he can make a play.

And then, defensively, he's always been good, but you got to challenge him every night.

If he's on like bad players, like he's not as good, but when he's guarding a guy that can play, he's a really good defender.

And so, we need his total all-around package.

And when you play for a team like Phoenix, like he did the last couple of years, you got Booker and KD, and you're the third option.

People like, oh, well, he had 18 points, shot 50% from the field, and 43% from three.

You know, so I mean, those are unbelievable stats.

But when you're playing with KD and Book, it kind of gets overshadowed.

And so I think, you know, by coming here, I think it gets a fresh start.

And I think he's going to be great for us.

How difficult is it, T.

Lou, to get a guy when he's been the guy where he was.

to get him to come in and say, that's not what we need here because he's not, it's going to be Kawhi.

It's going to be James Harden.

And I think he's struggling.

Like you said, he's had good numbers, but I think he struggled because when you go from 30 to 18, that's a big, And people look at you different.

They talk about you different.

Right.

But the talk really doesn't matter because you don't know how the team is structured and how they're,

how they want to play.

You know, he might take a back seat to KD and Book like, listen, I'm going to guard the best player.

You know, if y'all need me, I'm going to be here.

But I don't think, you know, with our team, he'll get lost in the softs because James is such a great passer.

Yes.

He makes it easier for everybody to play the game.

And we're going to need him to score.

We don't need him to come in and try to be somebody else.

We need him to be who he is.

And so keeping him involved and engaged offensively is going to be huge for us because he can do a lot of stuff.

He can cut, catch and shoot.

He can come off screens.

He can handle the ball as a secondary ball handler.

So he can do a lot of things offensively.

And so we want him to come in and be who he is, not trying to fit in.

Chris Paul, you bring him back.

What are your expectations?

Because what is he Pete?

Gordon into his 20th season, 20th season, and he's still a quality assist guy.

Now, he's not the scorer that he once was, but you might not need him to give you that kind of offense, but you need somebody that can move the ball.

He is a pure point guard.

He's looking to pass the ball first.

What are your expectations from CP?

Yeah, kind of the same thing with Bradley Bill, you know, just being who you are.

And, you know, when you get older in age and you played so long in the league, your main goal is to win.

And so I think they're at the point in their careers where we just want to win, whatever it takes.

But, you know, CP, you know, being 40 years old and playing 82 games last year.

Yes.

You know what I mean?

Like, so.

Nobody plays 82 anymore.

Right.

Unless you're Mikael Bridges.

Right, right.

And so he has done a great job as far as just changing his diet, you know, how he eats, how he trains.

And he's going to be huge for us, I think, for our young guys as far as teaching them how to work, teach them how to be professional.

And then, like you said, being a hell of a pastor and creator.

And he takes care of the basketball, doesn't turn the ball over.

So that's huge for us.

But you do realize when you bring these players in, combined with the players that you already have, expectations goes up exponentially.

You know what's expected of you guys.

And you guys just happen to be the oldest team in the NBA.

See, God, how'd that happen?

If you don't have expectations, you don't have a chance to win.

Okay.

And so you should never shy away from that.

You know, as a coach, you should be running to that.

Right.

You know, having a chance to compete for a championship.

That's that's all you can ask for.

Right.

Just having a chance to compete because there's, you know, about 20 teams that come in every season and they don't have a chance to really win.

Right.

You know, and so for me, I think we really have a real shot.

Like I said, with the guys we acquired this summer, with the guys we had here last year, with a healthy Kawhi, I think we really do have a chance to be an elite team.

You know, and so it's going to take a lot of work, but we can get there.

How important was it for you guys to get into your own building?

Because as long as you stayed in Staples or the Crip or whatever they call it, it's really hard to have an identity because the Lakers have been there so long.

They won so much in that building, especially not so much in the last 10 years, last 15 years, excuse me, but you know, with Shaq and Kobe, everybody remembers that.

And now you got the Lakers and now you got LeBron in that building.

You got Luca.

How important was it for you guys, T.

Lou, to get your own building?

Well, it was important.

And I know, like, you know, everyone makes the rivalry, the Clippers, Lakers, whatever.

But to me, it's more about the city of L.A., you know.

And so when I first came here as a rookie, like, it's all I knew.

And they embraced me.

And just being here for the people in the city of L.A.

is,

it means the most to me.

Right.

You know, and so if you're a Lakers fan, if we're not playing

the Clippers not playing the Lakers, you should be a Clippers fan.

Right.

Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, it's us against the world.

You know, and so that's kind of how they view it, though.

I know, I know,

but I wish they would.

And so um, for me, it was great for us to kind of, like you said, Mr.

Barman, when he bought the team, he said, I'm going to build us an arena.

And so, you know, it took some time and he did that.

Right.

You know, so to have our own home and a place where you can leave your shoes in a locker room, have to move it out every time, you know, we left to go on the road or a concert came in.

Right.

You know, it's huge for us to have a place called home.

And it's beautiful.

I mean, they've done a great job of just everything they've done with that.

You know, nothing was left out.

Nothing was spared.

He spared no expense.

Nothing.

Reports are, and you can correct this, that Kawhi trained until the end of the playoffs.

Is that true?

He trained.

Like he put his body, he was doing like the playoffs was going on, even though he wasn't playing.

And so when the clip, excuse me, when the Thunder and the, who they play?

The Pacers, when they ended,

Kawhi, he started, took a break, and now he started back up.

Why do you think it was important for him to do that?

I think just train his mind to be able to play and get to the finals.

Yeah.

Like our season was over.

Like we got beat by Denver in game seven.

But to keep training and keep playing and just pushing your body to that point of, you know, an extra two months of the season, like that's tough.

Right.

And to train your mind and train your body, that's what he's getting ready for.

So I love that.

It's hard.

I mean, because you know, you're as a player, you play, you play, you play.

And you see how great Kawhi is when he plays.

And for some reason, his body has betrayed him.

Sometimes, not all the time, because when he's healthy,

it's hard hard to say he might not be, he's borderline top five, but he ain't getting out of the top team when he's healthy.

Now, you can say whatever, because he can still defend.

Now, he's not the defender, the two-time defensive player of the year defender, because he's kind of focused a little bit more offensively.

Back then, he was just a defensive player that gave you some offense.

Now, he's an offensive player that can still play outstanding defense.

But when you watch him and you see, because a lot of people say, man, Kawhi, that's that low management, ain't nothing wrong with him.

When you see how hard he works, because everybody talks about how hard he actually actually works, and you see how his body sometimes betrays him.

What goes through your mind?

I feel sorry for him, you know,

because all the work he puts in, we see it every day.

And just what it takes to get on the floor on a consistent basis, it takes a lot for him to get out there.

And so it's not like he's wanting to sit out and miss games.

Like he puts the work in every single day.

And the grind that he has to do to even get on the floor to play is just tough, you know.

And so when he tries to push, you know, through that threshold himself, he gets himself in trouble.

So a lot of times it's coming from us.

It's come from Lawrence Frank, the medical staff.

We got to protect him from himself because sometimes he wants to play back-to-backs, but we've seen a champion.

If he does, then

he goes well up.

And so even though he wants to do it, sometimes you got to protect him from himself.

And it's just tough because he's not a guy that wants to sit out not wanting to play.

His whole mindset is to win championships.

And that's what he wants to do.

And sometimes, like you said, it's just, it's unfortunate.

You know, it's some bad luck that things happen.

but it's not like, you know, he doesn't want to work or he doesn't want to play.

Like, that's definitely not true.

You played alongside Kobe.

You played alongside Jordan.

Has Kawhi ever, because a lot of people say his game is very, very similar because he had the mid-range game.

Both of those guys had tremendous mid-range games.

Has he ever asked you any questions about Jordan and Kobe?

All the time.

Yeah, all the time, especially when I first got here.

And so going down to San Diego, you know, a couple of summers and just working with him and just showing him that, you know, the moves and the routines that me and Jordan did every single morning.

Like we went to, we call it a breakfast club.

Yeah.

Get up, we lift weights, go to breakfast, get to the gym about an hour and a half early.

And I went through the same post moves that Jordan went through every single day for two years.

And so I knew his routine.

And so I brought.

that to Kawhi and just kind of showed him footwork, you know, how they did it, what they were looking for, you know, how to take advantage of different, you know, and so he really picked up on it.

It was crazy.

We was talking about it like four days ago.

He was like, when you come back to San Diego.

And I was like, man, I don't know.

You know what I'm saying?

When you come back to LA.

But you had to come to Vegas to get that in.

Yeah, so, but, you know, he got it down and just showing him all the different things that I learned from Jordan and Kobe and just the footwork and stuff.

And he picked it up and he really embraces it.

Right.

Is he as quiet as he seems?

No.

No, I mean, he's like me.

I don't really like, you know, being around the media and talking out, you know,

around his guys, around, oh, he's a funny, he's a funny dude, man.

That's what people say.

Super funny.

Like, and I'm like, people say he's joking, he's having having a good time.

But

when the cameras are around,

he's like so robotic.

Yeah, and that's kind of what makes him him.

You know, a lot of times, you know, stars, they want to get out in front of the camera.

They want to be seen.

And he's the total opposite.

Right.

You know, and so he rather let his game do the talking than speaking.

And so you can respect that.

Right.

You know, and I love that about him.

But he's a funny dude.

You re-signed James Harden the two-year deal.

When you guys...

Make the move and you get Harden.

What was your expectation?

Because you had saw him from afar.

You see him score 36 a night you seen him win the mvp you see a guy goes from the sixth man of the year to one of the two or three best players in the nba so when you get a guy like that what what are you what's going through your head like damn i mean i don't want to mess i don't want to talk i don't want to mess up too much of what he's doing but i also need him to play within the scheme so what's your thought process when you get a guy like a james harden yeah it's tough you just got to you know kind of figure out the first thing you do is go to a player like that and say you be who you are you know and we're going to try to make sure we incorporate into the team dynamics, but be who you are.

And if you're doing too much, we'll let you know.

But when he first came, I thought.

Damn, T.

Lou, you said you do too much, you let him know?

Yeah.

But I mean, when he came, when he first came, he wasn't doing enough.

Like,

he was taking like seven shots a game.

No, he wasn't.

And so PG, Kawhi, and then we had Russ, you know, coming in.

And so James is more of the facilitator, you know, making the plays.

But

when he started to like, you know, score more and be more aggressive, I think we went 35 and 6 or something, something crazy, 33 and 6 and um we had a hell of a stretch you know when we once we got him but we had worked on something all training camp about our cutting and slashing and moving and we brought him in we just totally killed him right because james like guys space so

he can make the right play and and make sure guys in the right spots and so um it made it tough for us but we adjusted to it and like you said when guys are great you just got to let them be great right

how do you make sure that game seven doesn't happen again because we hear james harden is great in the regular season and then come playoff time.

We don't seem to get that same level of James Harden.

Is it mental?

Is it something that you can do?

Is it something the players around him can do?

What can you guys do to make sure he's at his absolute best when you need him to be?

Yeah, I mean, I don't see what the difference is between game six and game seven.

You know, the game six was an elimination game.

Right.

He had 30, what, 36?

You know, so like, I don't think it's a mental thing.

I think teams are prepping for a hell of a guy.

You know, and so when you have two or three guys loaded up, not going to let you play to your strengths, not going to let you ISO and get to where you want to get to, it just makes it tough, you know, and so

that's when I got to help out.

That's when other guys got to step up.

And I just take most of the blame.

Like, if he's not, if he's not performing, if my players are not performing, I think it's on me.

And so for me, if that's going to be a problem, then we just got to win in six games.

Don't go to seven.

Yeah, I think that dunk, that dunk, that putback dunk by Gord really, it took a lot out of you.

Because y'all had that one.

And then all of a sudden, you're like, we're about what are you gonna go i think you're about to go no y'all would have won the game yeah no it was tied up

but yeah um

something that i can't recall and you were around kobe a lot more than me and jordan i can't recall if he did it either but when they had a bad game they never ducked out on the media no and it it it bothers me when things go well guy drop a a 40 point triple double the guy got 50 60 they'll talk they have a bad game and then they they they run from their responsibility of talking to the media.

What's your take on that, T.

Lou?

I don't like it, you know, but I think

guys are built certain ways in different ways.

And I don't think it's more of a disrespect thing.

I think it was more like you let yourself down because they train so hard and you work so hard to get to these moments.

And if you don't play well, like you're pissed off at yourself.

Correct.

It's not the media or anybody else.

And so,

you know, it's better ways you can handle it.

I think guys should.

But you never know how guys are feeling.

Yeah, some guys can't handle it.

You might get them on stage and they might

be glad.

You're like, yeah, you should have dumped down on that one.

Exactly.

So, I mean, I wish it was a better way they could handle it.

But, you know,

if you don't play well, if you don't do what you're supposed to do, step up and meet the responsibility, you know, of doing the media.

That 98 draft class.

Dirk, Paul Pierce, Vince Carter, Mike Bibby, Al Harrington, Larry Hughes, Rashard Lewis, Antoine Jameson, Jason Williams, Bonzie Well, Ricky Davis, Ray for Austin, Katino Mobley, Earl Boykins.

What do you remember about that draft class?

Y'all had a nice little squad.

You got Dirk's in the hall,

Pierce is going to the hall, Vince Carter's in the hall.

Yeah,

it was crazy because, you know, my junior year, you know, at Nebraska,

I had a really good year.

And so I was like, man, can I come out?

Because I didn't know if Steve Francis is going to come and then Baron Davis.

And Baron Davis had got hurt, and he tours ACL and you at UCLA and so when he got pushed back he's gonna come out that year right so if B D would have came out I'd have came back to school for my senior year right you know so once he got hurt that's why B D's my guy

you know so once he got hurt I was like I gotta make a move you know and so I came out you know ended up being the 23rd pick

but just going through that draft it was it was crazy because I had a chance and opportunity to go 15.

Like Orlando said they were going to take me 15th because they had three picks.

They had, so they took Mike Doliak at 12, Keon Clark at 13.

And then for 15, they supposed to take me, but they took Matt Harpering and then

from Georgia Tech.

And then I think 16 was, I think Michael Dixon, but then I suppose Michael Dixon went 14.

And then Bryce Drew went 16.

And I was supposed to win 16th, and I didn't do that.

So then when you don't know, you're kind of like, oh, shit.

You know, what's going on?

So now all of a sudden, you thought 15, you know, go 16, 17, 18.

So you start sliding.

You're like, damn, did I make the right decision right and so you know they want to have a draft party back in mexico for me and i was like man i ain't gonna be embarrassed like i ain't have a draft party don't get drafted so i was in uh new york you know uh with my agent andy miller at his house and so you know when i heard my name get called by the denver nuggets 23rd pick like i went crazy right it was like a dream come true and you know for a guy like you said from mexico that doesn't happen right you know and so um it was like you know a blessing to dream come true and then you got then

you get traded you're like we get get drafted to another 23rd pick, Tyron Luce.

Yeah, yeah.

That pick was traded to the

backflips.

Go from happy to like backflips.

Man, the Lakers, Kobe, and come on, man.

Shaq.

Come on.

Kobe and Shaq and like being in L.A.

And then, so, like, what blew my eye was, I like, when, when they said traded to the Lakers, because I know Jerry Western came and watched me play

in Hawaii, and we played against Virginia, and I had a hell of a game.

He was sitting courtside, like, thumbs up, winking at me.

I was like, oh, like, you know what I'm saying?

Let me keep this up.

And so they say I get traded to the Lakers.

Man, I jump off the couch.

I go crazy.

My agent scared me.

Well, this is totally different.

You're not going to Denver.

You're going to the Lakers.

So this is very important.

You got to.

So he scared me.

So now I'm going from being high to like scared.

Kill my high.

And we talk about to this day.

Like, damn, like, I was like excited.

And now he scared me because now, like, I'm like, shit, like, what do I got to do now?

Like, you know, so, but, like, that was, that was huge, man.

but you go into a situation t-lou where you're like you're all big 12 and you're handling the ball you're scoring

and you know that's not gonna be you what you're gonna be doing in la so how how do you transition because you transition the rivalries the marching bands the upsets saturdays just got way more fun college football is back think you know the game put your college football knowledge to the test with draft kings sportsbook and turn your picks into big payouts from live betting during the game to rivalry week odds boosts and so much more DraftKings Sportsbook has everything you need to stay in the action from kickoff to the final whistle.

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Like, you like, forgot, I mean, you could score, but you like, nah, that ain't my thing.

Let me lock in on this defensive end.

That's how I'm going to have to be here.

Well, what's crazy is that, you know, like coming out of college, I averaged 23 that year, you know, and so all I knew was scoring the basketball and, you know, playing with pace, playing with speed.

And so when I got to the Lakers, you know, I came in.

It was lockout season.

You know, so the first 35 games, I ain't even, I ain't even suit up.

I didn't even suit up.

Damn.

Yeah,

I wore a suit for the first 35 games.

And so, you know, we only played 50 games that season.

Right.

You know, Dale Harris got fired and Kurt Rambers took over.

Right.

And he was my workout guy, you know, that whole time while Dale Harris was, you know, was there.

And so the last 15 games, he gave me an opportunity to play.

And I play, you know, I play well, you know, but just looking at it like every day, I'm like scoring and practice.

I'm doing my thing never got me on the floor.

But just sitting back and just observing and seeing what guys were doing and what I could bring, I said, okay, like D Fish is a, he's a, he's a good player, solid player, makes open shots, does the right thing, doesn't turn the ball over.

But we don't have an energy guy.

Like a guy could pick up full court, pressure the basketball.

And so just looking at that and just learning from that instead of, you know, being pissed off and being mad, like just learning, getting better, I seen what they needed.

And when I got my opportunity, man, I just picked up.

I ain't never been a defensive player.

I'm not going to play defense, but like I've always been a scorer, you know.

And so

to be able to do that and see what we needed and then make that my niche to get on the floor, like that's what I had to do.

So I was willing to do it.

You should be, you should be like, all a lot of these players look up to Michael Jordan and all these other guys.

Peyton Prince and TJ McConnell should look up to you.

That was your gig before, way, way, way back when.

You get to L.A.,

Shaq, and people always talk about Shaq's generosity.

It was reported that Shaq gave you a sum of money to go get laced out.

It's funny because, you know, when I first met him, we went to the Century Club.

And so

when I first met him, he didn't know who I was.

Like, they had drafted me.

He didn't really know who I was.

And then Uncle Jerome, like, man, that's the guy we just drafted from.

Right.

He's like, oh, okay.

Like, whatever, whatever.

He said, all right, well, just come to the house tomorrow.

I'm going to have my chef cook and just come by.

So, um, I said, all right.

So, I brought a couple of my guys.

We go to Shaq's house, man, a hell of a spread.

We eat good.

And so, we're just sitting around talking.

And he's like, All right, here, you know, before you leave, hold up.

So, he goes to the back, comes out with $10,000.

Like, here, go shop and get yourself.

I was like, What?

He's like, Yeah, I was like, Man, I can't pay this back.

Like, it's locked out.

I'm getting half my money.

Like, I can't, no, no, no, just keep it.

Don't worry about it.

just keep it damn that's the kind of guy he was like bought bought mark mass in a truck like because he you know he wasn't getting around but like that's who he was man like shaq would give you anything he took care of a lot of people and like i said he don't get a lot of credit for that but he's always been like that He's like a big kid.

You see him, I mean, the thing, like, he goes in the store, he's like, and the parents will tell the kid to put it back because they can't pay for it.

He said, no, I got it.

Right.

And he's, he is.

He's

an oversized.

He's a 50-yard.

I think Shaq's probably 50, 51, 52.

But he's a big kid.

He's a big kid that wants the best for everything.

Everybody.

Everybody.

Yeah.

He's a prankster, though.

Oh,

a super prankster.

A super prankster.

So

one time, you know, Devin George, you know, we were on a team and,

you know, Shaq had told him to do something.

He didn't do it.

And so usually he'll like put a towel, wrap a towel around his hand.

He'll punch you and beat you up until, you know, until you surrender.

But this this day like devin we had a game and devin didn't want he didn't do something that morning bring donuts or the newspaper or something and um shaq went in the bathroom and he shit it and he shit it in devin's shoes and so so so when he come out of locker room he kind of like you know doctor where it comes to to like the top of your shoe and so devin not knowing we getting ready for the game devin not knowing he comes in puts his shoe in and he puts his you know foot in the in a in a pile of shit

like he was doing stuff like that all the time like just curling up.

Oh, Shaq.

Yeah, crazy stuff, man.

So, what did Devin do?

What could he do?

I mean, what you gonna do?

Oh, man, come on, Shaq, man.

That was undefined.

He was mad, but like, what could he do?

You know, nothing to do about that.

Like, just take it as a loss.

For once, you might get beat up, and then two, you might get cut.

So,

you know what I'm saying?

You was lose, lose.

But you was also.

You played with Dennis Robin.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What was?

Because obviously, he's one of the great small rebounders.

He might be the greatest small rebounder in NBA history.

You talk about a guy to 6'7 that led the league and rebounded for like seven straight years.

I mean, he was getting like 17, 18 rebounds a game, which is unheard of.

So what was he like?

Was he like, you know, Shaq, I saw Shaq said he didn't take, he didn't like to take showers.

He would leave and go straight to the club.

So what was he like?

practiced behind the scenes.

He was a hard worker.

You know, he was quiet.

He didn't really do a lot of talking.

um but when he stepped on the floor like he gave everything he had every single day wow you know and so um the funny thing is like when we wore our practice uniforms and stuff he always wore like pajama pants and like a white t-shirt that's how he practiced you know so um but i mean just you know talk to him on the end of the bench because i wasn't playing at the time right like so like i said the first 35 games like i'm on the sideline he come sit on the end of the bench and like just talking to me about you know what jordan did and like how kobe you know reminds him a lot of jordan right and the similarities and um should talk you know a lot at the end of the bench you know but he wasn't a big talker you know hard worker um i don't like the way it ended they kind of like you know made like it was his fault or whatever but it wasn't was he taking the shoes off at that time oh yeah he's he always had his shoes off yeah he always had his shoes off um and now that i'm older i see why

it's comfortable you know but like i see why but right i mean he wasn't a problem at all like he when he was supposed to do his job he did his job and you saw about the fans loved him too when he was oh yeah they love everywhere he's been the fans love him yeah you were the lakers from 98 to 2001 you won two championships what was that time like because

la love winners and if you win in la

you you're gold you're you're golden forever yeah i mean it was like being you know with the beatles you know i mean you had kobe shaq you know you had rick fox who was a movie star you know lon harper who already won with you know won with george yeah b shaw d fish you know then the first one was glenn rice we had robert horry and horace grand it was just like like travel with the Beatles.

And like every city we went to, Shaq had a party, a birthday party.

I'm like, damn, like, when is your birthday?

Like, every time we went to a new city, like, tonight, Shaquille O'Neal birthday badge, you know, like, and so, you know, when we get there, like, the whole team, that's, that's what was different about now.

And then back then, our whole team went out, like, 15 guys, like, every single night.

So when we got to a city, we go out, have fun, we kick it.

But you knew, like, every time we stepped into the arena, like, we was going to win.

Right.

Like, and so, like, to have that feeling, knowing that when we go into an arena, we're going to win.

Like it was no better feeling.

And then like I said, at the time, having the two best players in the world, like, I mean, what could you do about that?

Would you say

because you were there, you were in it.

Would you say guys were closer then or are teams guys closer now?

Closer then.

I mean, because you didn't have a social media.

Guys weren't playing all the video games.

You know, it wasn't a lot to do.

So guys, we always stay connected.

You play cards.

You went out together.

You went to dinner together.

But now with just so much social media and so many movie outlets and all the different things you can do now, it's just totally different.

But back then, we always together every single day.

And every team I was on back then, it was the same way.

You're coming out, unfortunately, for you was in the NBA Finals because that's when people, everybody knew like Tyron Lou was.

And you took the assignment.

of guarding Alan Iverson, who was the MVP that season.

And look, he went haywire.

He went, that first game one, he went crazy.

Yeah.

And, but you were undeterred.

Like, when you, when, like, you giving it everything you got, it's like, come on, come on, come on, T.

Lou, you got to get like, bro, I'm giving this dude everything I got.

I mean, ain't nothing working.

No, he's a beast.

Like, I mean, to be relentless the way he was and how he attacked every single time.

Like, and it's crazy.

Like, he's like probably two, three years older than me, but I idolize him.

Right.

Like, just, you know, just how he carried himself, you know, being six foot, you know, with the braids and, you know, bringing that hip-hop culture to yeah you know to the nba yeah the heavy influence on the nba and so it was crazy the two weeks leading up to the finals i played ai in practice every single day so i was able to run fast and forget the triangle like i was able you know run fast shoot all the balls

and um so i knew everything just studying the film watching him and all of his counters everything he did and so in that first half you know um i didn't play you know i was on the side i didn't play the first half of the game right and so with six minutes ago in the third quarter um i'm sitting on the floor me and and Devin George.

And then, you know, Phil looks down to the end of the bench.

He's like, Luby, I was like,

I jumped up.

I jumped up.

At this point, A, I had 36 points already.

Ah, baby, what you want me to do?

With six minutes ago in the third quarter, you know what I'm saying?

He ended with 48.

But like, just having that chance to play, and like I said, play against someone you idolize and respected so much.

You know, so I know a lot of people make like a big deal over the step over and all that.

But like, to me, it's just competing.

Like, if you play hard, you compete, there's going to be some things that happen that you don't want to happen.

You're going to get dunked on.

You're you're gonna get crossed over, you know, whatever it may be.

But, like, they act like he crossed me over.

I fell down, they stepped over me.

Like, he made a good move.

I contested the shot, walked back, he stepped over me.

And I think the biggest thing was Doug Collins because he, oh, he steps over, Lou, he goes crazy.

So then I made a big deal out of it, which, you know, it don't bother me.

Like, people see me all the time, like, you know, that's Tyler.

That's the guy that AI stepped over.

So that's how I'm known.

Not a three-time champion.

You know, like, nothing like

the guy that got the AI stepped over.

So it's whatever.

Was AI the the toughest matchup you had?

Because you've had to guard, I mean, you've had to guard a lot.

I mean.

No, he was the toughest matchup I ever had to guard, hands down.

But when you look at, because I'm older than AI, and I remember him.

I mean, he's six foot tall, but he thin.

Did he weigh 160?

160.

That's what he weighed.

No, that's what he weighed.

160.

But, man, just...

Speed, athletic ability, the way he attacks you.

Right.

Like, his handle, like, he just, he could do everything.

He could shoot it, mid-range to the rack finish over big yeah dunk on a big like get you in foul trouble and then in transition he was like a miniature lebron like he was unstoppable in transition you know and so he definitely was the hardest guy i had to guard you know in my career

kobe you were close to kobe and did you you guys played a lot of a lot of ones yeah you get it never

because this guy right here

so uh a funny story is so uh my second year um i think eighth game of the season i got hurt right So I had to get microfracture surgery.

Okay.

And Kobe had broke his hand.

And so when we got better, like, you know, just rehabbing or whatever.

So like for three months, me and Kobe worked out every single day.

The team was on the road.

It's just me and Kobe.

And so me and my cousin Doodle, we would go to the gym and we would play one-on-one full court.

And I could never beat him.

Like I could, you know, because I was a good one, great one-on-one player.

Right.

And so we'd be in the car.

We'd get back and say, man, why you can't beat him?

Like, I said, man, I don't know.

Like, I just can't beat him.

And then like two years later, he became Kobe.

Like, oh, I see you why, you know,

like, nah, I see why I could never beat him, you know.

But, like, people don't get the chance to see, like, I mean, Kobe had that man handle like the ball on a string.

Yeah.

All that and one stuff.

He had all that.

Right.

Like, never lost a handle.

Like, we talk about guys, like, skill-wise, he was one of the baddest guys, like, ever.

And so, something I had to clean up, I want to clean up today.

And I talked to John Sally already.

So he told a story on a podcast about

Kobe was on the, on the plane, and, and like he was bobbing his head like he was listening to music right and so we was at the card table playing cards and john side said you're not listening to music are you he's like you listen to everything everybody's saying he was like yeah i'm listening to everybody he's like why are you doing that and he was like to see if somebody's talking about nobody talking to myself i just want to make sure i know what's going on or whatever but john side told a story that that i was talking about i'm like kobe my man i would know he said no i didn't say that it got cut and the snip how he did i said no you got to clean that up because that's my guy right and i would never talk about COVID.

You know, so he said he got a podcast with the same people two weeks from now.

He's going to clean it up because that's not the way it happened.

But

go ahead.

I'm sorry.

You can see.

Did you know?

Because sometimes people like, man, did you know he would be that?

I did.

From working out with him, because like you said, you working out behind the scenes.

And because, I mean, everybody remember, I remember 17-year-old and Dale Harris giving him an opportunity of Utah and he airballed in the last shot.

That's what people like.

I was like, everybody keeps saying he going to be good.

He going to be good.

I'm like, well, damn.

But I did factor in.

I was like, dude's supposed to be a senior in high school, really, though.

He ain't supposed to be.

He's in the NBA.

You could tell that he was going to be that.

He was going to be Kobe.

Yeah, but not to factor in the airballs, to factor in he took those shots.

What?

The mentality.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

The mentality to take those shots.

Yes.

You know what I mean?

Because a lot of times people shy away from it.

They don't want it.

Yeah, they don't want it.

You know, and I've seen that.

And so at 17, 18 years old, to have the mentality to take those shots and shoot the airballs.

Like, the thing about Kobe, which is is different, you know, is I've never heard him talk about money, like how much money he made or how much money.

It was always about he wanted to be the greatest.

Like I want to be the best.

And to see the work he put in every single day, you can tell that's what he wanted to do.

Right.

And just from like being there at five o'clock in the morning, being the first guy there, working on his body, what 17 guy, 17-year-old guy, you know, is working on their body, you know, getting the soft tissue stuff, eating right.

He's mature way beyond his years.

Yeah, like nobody's doing that.

Right.

You know, and so to see all the stuff that he did at that age,

it was just phenomenal.

You knew he was going to be, I knew he was going to be great.

Like, had no doubts about that.

Just the work he put in and how hard he worked, it was just, it was, it was going to happen.

But I think I forget the outlet.

They had Kobe ranked the 11th best player in the history of the game.

You played with Kobe.

You played in this league.

You coached in this league for a number of years.

The 11th best player?

I would never say that, but it's my era.

I don't don't know, you know, like back in the day, I can't speak on how great guys was back then because it said, like, the TV outlets, the games weren't known to you.

But you heard about it.

The games were tape delayed in general.

Yeah, so you never saw it.

But in my era, if I had to pick and choose and say, was he better than the guys back in the day?

Oh, no question at all.

Like, no question.

I mean, to win five championships, like I said, to win two, you know what I'm saying, without Shaq, we thought would never happen.

And to do all the things he did, like, come on, man.

Like, no, definitely not 11.

That's crazy.

Had Shaq and Kobe stayed together, let's just say they would have had a harmonious relationship.

I'm trying to think.

It's hard to say because Stockton and Malone wasn't on that level.

Stockton was the best player.

There was no question about it.

No ifs, and or but.

It's hard to say Pippin and Jordan.

Jordan was the best player.

There's no ifs and and but.

But when you got two guys and you got two thoroughbreds and they running and they looking eye to eye, I'm the best no i'm the best i'm the best in the world in our team yeah the world

yeah had they been able to coincide let's just say for another three years

how many championships do you think they win they could have won eight

they could have won eight and if you know i know i wasn't there for the detroit series or whatever and i'm glad my best friend chauncey got a championship

um like there was some bickering back and forth then like they could have you know know, they could have easy won that.

But if they stayed together, they won seven, eight championships.

Like, could nobody beat that dude?

Like, somebody might have slipped up and won.

Like, you know, Detroit won.

Right.

You know, and they had a hell of a team.

And the job they did was phenomenal.

But, okay, if you leave outside of that year and come back the next three, nobody's beating them.

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If it had been a situation,

I think the best situation we can use in this situation, T-Lou, is Cove is Kareem and Magic.

People don't realize this, but Magic's rookie year, Kareem was MVP.

Magic was finals MVP.

Right.

But as they started to progress, Pat Riley said, I need more from you.

He called him Buck.

That's what he called

young Buck.

He says,

I need more scoring from you.

Magic asked Pat Riley to his face, you run that by Cap?

Did you care that with Kareem?

Right, right.

Kareem said,

he's going to get that thing down to the block.

He decided to run it by him.

If they could have had that type of relationship, I don't think nobody beat him.

No.

I think they might, like, like the Bulls won three and then took two years off.

If they'd have had a Kareem and magic type of relationship, I don't think nobody can beat them.

No.

And I'm mad they didn't.

I'm mad because that was greatness.

Like,

and we might have never seen that again.

No, never.

Because it's a perfect situation, T.

Lou, because you got a big and a little.

Right.

It's a guard and a center.

Yeah.

And

you're never going to get somebody Kobe's skill with Shaq dominance.

You saw it.

Right.

I'm glad I saw it.

You got an opportunity to see it up close and personal.

How dominant was it on every, you know, every night, Shaq gonna give you 30, Kobe gonna give you 27.

Yeah.

Kobe gonna go score 40, Shaq gonna give you 30 and 20.

Right.

To watch that every night.

And because back then, teams have about four or five big because two bigs, he followed them out.

That's easy.

I mean, you had a barbecue chicken.

Foul trouble the first three minutes.

Like, the starting center is out of the game in the first three minutes.

And what they don't understand is when you go to Hacker Shack, which is cool, now you in a bonus with six minutes to go.

Now Kobe goes to work.

So any hand checking or Kobe's going to the free throw line.

You know, so like, man, come on, man.

Like, it just was, I mean, he was just so dominant.

That's why, like, when you walk into an arena or you go on the road, like, can't nobody beat us?

Like, you know, like, we got Kobe and Shaq.

No matter how things go, how bad I'm playing or D Fish or Rick, you know, I'm not beat y'all.

We don't got to make a shot.

We know we got at least 70 coming from these two guys.

And back then, you was only scoring 80.

So we got to get 10 points

between the other seven of us.

Yeah, so shit, like, it don't matter.

Like, they're going to get 70.

All you got to do is get 10.

You know what I'm saying?

So it didn't matter, man.

And so, like, that's how great they were.

But, like, a lot of teams have a one-two punch.

Or these are the best two players in the world

on the same team.

Yes.

When has that ever been done?

Do you think we'll ever see another Shaq?

Shaq?

Because people don't realize how Shaq was 7'1, was 325.

Shaq could run.

Shaq was agile.

Shaq could be.

I'm trying to think of somebody that that size.

Maybe Wilt, but I didn't see Wilt play.

That's the only person I could think of that was that size that could get up and down the court.

But people don't realize how athletic Shaq was.

Oh, man.

He was super athletic.

Like, you know, take out the glass.

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Push it, you know, go full forward, no look passes, and just

seeing how he moved.

Like, he was, you know, people getting, you know, stuck by being the pick and roll, like, you know, whatever.

But like, he was agile.

Like, he can move, he can side to side laterally, he can up and down, he can do whatever you want.

And to be that big and be that dominant, like, we'll never see that ever again.

No, I I mean, I don't, I don't, how?

Not a guy his size that can move like that.

You look, there are guys, okay, Jokic, Mike, can make better shots, can, you know, that, and Joel L and B, but I'm talking about his size, his ability, nobody will ever be that dominant again.

Never.

Nope.

Dude, if you were the coach, let's just say I'm going to make you Phil Jackson, and you're the coach of Shaq and Kobe.

How do you keep them together?

How do you make peace?

Whatever it takes.

No, seriously, you can't can't lose that like that changes people's lives for forever you know not just shaq and cobe what feels feels i already feel you know but the organization right all of us role players like you know like that changed our lives forever like you get you keep those guys together and you get a chance to win six seven eight championships like in la right like come on man like no no no better thing and so whatever i had to do Whatever I had to say, I was going to do it.

I mean, you had to.

There's no way you can lose Shaq.

Like, you know, they had to stay together.

And so that was just very disappointing, you know, especially all the success that we had.

It was disappointing to see that happen.

I think the thing for me is that Shaq replaying in his mind saying he wish he had done things different because he knows.

He knows he left at bare minimum, he left two championships with the Lakers on the court.

He knows that.

He knows it.

I think more than that.

But

at minimum.

And so now he sees all these guys winning MVPs and winning titles.

And he's like, and people start talking about, well, he's up there.

He's like, hold on, wait a minute.

Y'all forgot about me?

I don't know how.

Like I said, it's never going to be a player like Shaq ever again.

No, not that size, not that athleticism, not that dominant.

No.

Never.

And so.

Like I said, I just sad that it happened, you know, the way it did because they were supposed to be together for, you know, in my eyes.

What was Kobe like in practice?

Because everybody say, like, look, I mean, Lou Will tell the story that he made him take off his shoes because they were bulljiving in the game.

They didn't play hard.

What was he like in practice?

Because we heard the last dance,

Jordan, you know, how he swung on Steve Kerr, that he was not afraid to approach guys, get in guys' face to make sure everybody was giving their best effort.

Not in the game, but practice.

What was Kobe?

What you saw in the game?

That's Kobe.

Every single day.

Every single day.

He wanted to be the best player every single day in practice, in the game.

And that's just how he competed, you know.

And so

every time we got a new player, like, you know, Glenn Rice, and Glenn Rice was a bad dude.

Yeah.

You know, Cole wanted to play one-on-one to show him, like,

this is my team.

We got J.R.

Ryder.

Same thing.

Like, J.R.

Ryder got there.

He wanted to play in one-on-one.

Show him, this is my team.

Like, used to, you know, because you used to be mad over there, but not here.

Yeah.

And so that's just who he was.

Like, competed every single possession, every sprint, every drill, like he wanted to be the best.

And that's no bullshit.

Like it's every single day he was the same person.

What you see in the game, you saw in practice every single day.

You end up leaving and you go to Washington.

You end up at Washington with 40-year-old Jordan.

Obviously, he's not the same.

He's not the first three-peat.

He's not the end three-peat.

He's taking time off and he comes back.

But could you see why he was Michael Jordan?

Oh, no doubt.

I mean, you see a guy that's 40 years old and he averaged 21 points a game on one leg.

See, people don't take into consideration, like, he played on one leg, one knee, you know, for two years.

And he averaged 20 points a game, you know.

And so I could just see just coming in to the gym, like Kobe, like I said, was a super worker.

And you see a guy like Jordan, you know, you come to practice, you know, two hours early, think you coming in about to work out.

Jordan's already done.

Lathered up, done lifted, sweat on the court, did all his footwork stuff, all his basketball stuff.

You're like, damn, like, I came two hours earlier.

He's already done at 40.

So what was he like at 23, 24, 25?

You know, and so you knew that's why he was who he was.

And so when I first walked in, I was in awe, like to be able to play with somebody you looked up to and idolized your whole life and to be, you know, team.

You don't even see real does he?

No.

No.

See?

No.

People think I'm lying when I say that the first time I saw him.

He like he levitating.

And I'm looking at this man.

He probably think I'm a, he like, man, Turley Sharp little brother look crazy.

Because

I'm looking at him like he not.

Cause he not real, T.

Lou.

He not real.

And when people see him, like, you know, he never had a lot of security.

No.

Like, but when people see him, they stop.

Like, cause they're like.

in all like oh that's my and then before you can really say something he's already gone like it wasn't a lot of crowd control like because like you see him and you just freeze right like all the other celebrities and stars are like people gonna run to him and go crazy right nobody ever really ran to jordan because we can't you can't believe it's here.

You can't believe it.

Like, it's just like he's walking.

You tap somebody, you look, you froze.

And then you look up, he's gone.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, that's how it was.

It never was like a, oh, and they rush and go crazy because you just couldn't believe it.

You know, and that's just.

And he played at 40, he played all 82.

82 games, second year, yeah.

It seemed to me back then.

I mean, he came in that era.

Well, it was important to play 82 games.

It's a badge of honor.

I don't think it's important now.

No, it's not.

It's not important now.

It's a badge of honor, especially back then.

But if you look at a lot of the medical, the science,

it makes sense.

You know, it's like to play 82 games.

But see, back then, we play 82 games, and then you had a two-hour practice the next day.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, now guys play 82.

And a lot of guys, they were taking commercial flights before this thing got high-tech and they took charter.

This guy was flying commercials.

Yeah, going to the airport.

Yeah, getting in line with it.

Yeah, sleeping in the airport, leaving at six o'clock in the morning to catch flights to go to another city.

So it was a badge of honor to play 82 games back then.

Like, that's what you wanted to do.

Right.

You know, and so, um, but with the medical and the science, how it is today, like, it makes sense why a lot of us can't walk now.

Right.

Because, you know, like how hard we went, all the practices, all the games.

Right.

So it is a little science to it.

But

like, back then, you wanted to play every game.

That was just, that was your mindset.

I've heard a lot of people say, in today's game, in the game, the way it's being played and the way it's being officiated today,

Jordan at his apex, how many points would he average?

Today?

Yeah.

Oh, man.

45?

You bulljoby, T.

Lou?

What you mean?

You can't touch nobody.

It's a foul.

I mean, you got the best player in the world.

But you know what I'm saying?

You got the best player in the world.

45, T-Lou.

What he averaged, 36 one year?

He averaged 37.

37.

Yeah.

So, yeah, add eight to that.

Every time you get touched, it's two free throws.

Right.

You know, so I mean, like, Zoom stuff could be a difference.

And, you know, like back in the legal defense, but yeah, I mean, I don't see like it wouldn't be a year he wouldn't average 45.

Wow.

You couldn't touch nobody.

I mean, you can't touch nobody now.

So, like, the physicality is, you know, pretty much gone.

Yeah.

Anything you go into the free throw line and just how smart he was, you know, especially nowadays, like, take advantage of these guys, you know, just far as just IQ alone.

Right.

What's the bite?

What's some of the best advice Jordan gave you?

So when I when I first came to Washington, you know, so I was in the triangle for, you know, two years on the field.

So when I came to Washington,

I was like, man, I guess I got turned loose.

Now I can just play my game.

And, you know,

so when I got there, like, I was just playing with pace, pushing it, you know, just.

not understanding really how to play the game, but just playing the game.

That makes sense.

And so he just taught me like, you know,

different reads, how to run the pick and roll.

If a guy's playing you like this, you know, do this.

It should be your counter.

And he gave me a lot of confidence.

Right.

You know, I think shooting the basketball because, you know, I could shoot, but, you know, when he kicked it out to you, like Jordan passed you the ball, you're like, oh, like, you know what I'm saying?

He's like, man, I don't care if you missed five in a row.

If you open, you got to shoot it.

Right.

And gave me that confidence,

which the second year when I was there, I was like second in the league in three-point shooting, but it all came from that first year.

And I don't think I had the confidence that I needed, like I said, to play play with Jordan.

And he gave me that confidence.

So, going to that second year, I was like, man, I was pissed off because I didn't play the way I wanted to play.

I thought I was going to be the starter.

Chris Whitney came in and did a hell of a job.

He was a starter.

He played well.

And then Larry Hughes came in.

And then, I think that second year, I came in with a chip on my shoulder.

We got a training camp.

Like, I'm coming in to be the starter.

Right.

And that happened for me.

But it all came from that first year of Jordan giving me confidence to be the player I wanted to be.

Was he hard on players?

Yes.

Too hard?

No.

I mean, if you do your your job, you ain't got to be hard on players.

Just do your job.

You know, so like, if you come in every day and do your job,

I can't be hard on you.

Right.

You know, but if you slack and if you bullshitting, like, yeah, he wasn't taking that.

He wasn't going to tolerate that.

You know, so.

So he was almost like he was a player coach.

Yeah.

On the floor.

Right.

Like, if you slack and you're not doing what you're supposed to do, he's going to call you out.

He's going to challenge you.

You know, if you can't handle the challenge, then you just can't play.

Right.

Because a lot, look, he took a 17-year-old kid from Glenn Academy and Kwame Brown.

And Kwame is a 6'11.

He was, was, you know, and everybody said, well, you took this guy, but I mean, by most draft boards, Kwame was the best player coming out that year.

A fenile.

Yes.

Kwame was this.

But 6'11 could run up and down the court.

I mean, he had it all.

First step, can drive, can pass, you know, like I said, run on the floor.

He's athletic, can do everything, you know, can do everything.

But, you know, when you put a young kid in that situation, I was older.

I was four or five years older than Kwame.

Right.

You put me in that situation, I was already scared to play with Michael Jordan.

Exactly, yes.

If you put a 17, 18-year-old kid with Michael Jordan, and then you're the number one pick, so the expectations are.

Expectations are through the roof.

Yeah, and so that's hard.

That's hard for anybody.

I've seen guys that are, you know, great players and guys that, you know, tend to all-stars and all the NBAs.

Play with LeBron and, you know, get to Cleveland, couldn't make a shot.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, scared to death.

So you can imagine like an 18-year-old Kwame.

And Kwame was talented.

He was skilled.

And he had a great year.

He played, what, 12 years, 13 years?

Yes.

And he was a really good player.

And so

people look at what he should have done from the expectations of being number one pick playing with Jordan.

But Jordan put a lot of, you know, a lot of...

Let's just say for the sake of argument, he's still the number one pick and he goes somewhere else.

Does his career turn out different, you think?

I think so.

I think so.

You know, because now he's being featured, the mistakes he's made, the mistakes he made are not being magnified now.

You know, you're not on TV because Jordan is there.

Right.

So you're probably going to a worse team.

You know, Jordan, when he came to Wizard, we was bad, but we had a tv time right you know you still had jordan and then with jordan there's expectation exactly and so if he went to another team you know he'd have been you know it'd have been a lot different you know he would have been able to make those mistakes as an 18 year old kid and he'd been able to grow and learn you know instead of at his pace

because everything when you play with a historically transcendent great player everything gets sped up ain't no learning none

You got like, hey, go, I never driven before.

Drive.

Yeah.

And that's, and that's how it was, you know.

And so he gets McCwame.

He was, man, that was the right pick.

He was a bad dude.

Also on that team was Charles Oakley.

Now, Oak, my boy.

Yeah.

Now, he is, hey, Oak is no nonsense.

He ain't going to take no mess.

Do what you're supposed to do.

He old school.

What was it like playing with Oak?

I loved it.

Yeah, I loved it.

First of all, I walked around and thought I had security.

So I wasn't really tripping off, you know, really tripping off nothing.

But

what Oak was really good at he was a chef yeah and so we would go to you know he loved

yeah he would cook for us like two times a week he's man throw down like the best of them but you know oak taught me a lot too like i said just you know being on time yeah being a pro putting in the work how he saw the game because he could really pass like you know just seeing the game different reads you know and so um he really was a mentor like you said to kwame and our younger guys because we had a young team yeah heidi white eton thomas like those bigs like brendan haywood right like those guys looked up to to oak and he really showed them a lot as well and just you know bringing that professionalism that's being a you know older vet right he was really good for us

nbc got the nba pack got a part of the nba package back

one of their contributors analysts is going to be michael jordan what type of analyst

i could just imagine the first time he criticized somebody they are going i wonder if they're going to say he don't know what he's talking about what did he do because they said that about everybody else right they said that about everybody else well he he wasn't that good.

He wasn't that good.

So I wonder if Jordan ever says he didn't play well.

Somebody didn't play well.

What will that guy say?

I think they'll take it, but I don't think it's more so to be critical or critique.

I think it's more so to be around the game.

Right.

Like we need him.

Right.

Like we miss him.

Right.

You know, and so

we bought the team.

You know, you go play there once a year or twice.

You see him sometimes.

But like, I think we need him around the game.

Right.

You know, and so for our younger guys to be able to see him and see who he is and, you know, what he's done for this league and, you know, be around the greatest.

Like.

How they pull that off?

NBC.

I'm trying to figure out how they pull that off because he's a guy like, you know, he likes to be,

he's ultra competitive.

Right.

He got a fishing team.

He used to have a motorcycle team.

He has a NASCAR team.

So he likes to compete, but he likes to compete, compete, compete.

Right.

Like him.

Right.

He liked to be on the boat fishing.

He liked to be around the cards.

He liked to go off.

Oh, man.

Yeah.

Playing cards.

I don't know.

I know you got them card stories because he he was a card

boo ray was his

bo ray gus that's that's that's the dunk oh my goodness he loved he loves being competitive i'm just anxious to hear to to see

how he how he sees the game and what he's going to say about the game.

Does he like the way the game is being played?

Does he like all these three-point shots?

Does he like all these guys?

I mean, there are some guys ain't got no business taking a three-point shot, but the analytics say they need to get up 30.

This team needs to get up 30 a game so anybody can shoot them.

I'm just anxious to hear what he has to say about that, Luke.

Yeah, no, I think that will be interesting, you know, but I think

to me, I think it's going to be more there to help.

I think, you know, help the young guys

help the game grow.

You know, he wasn't a big three-point shooter, so I think it said the mid-range game is a lost argument.

It is.

And if teams are going to play in deep drops and let you come off and take that shot, then why would you master that shot?

Why would you master the shot that teams are giving up?

And if you see all the game winners or all the clutch shots or big shots in NBA history throughout the playoffs, they're all mid-range.

Like they're never like, you know, 20, you know, 30 foot through.

Like Steph can make something.

But other than that, it's always a mid-range shot that wins that game.

Right.

You know, and so why not master and be great at something that teams are giving up?

Right.

You know, so I think he'd be just be here just to help and enhance the game, like I said, as best he can.

You played with T-Mac at Two-Stars.

You was at T-Mac in Orlando and in Houston, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So

there's been a lot being said.

And I think

T-Mac said it first that had he been on that Lakers team, that he believed they'd have won as many championships as Shaq and Kobe.

Shaq co-signed what he said.

And a lot of people are like, come on, bro.

Everybody just got revisionist history now.

And not to say T-Mac wasn't a good, but do you believe they would have won as many championships?

because it's easy i hate when people do this t-loo yeah a great player well if you to put him on that team they it doesn't necessarily mean it's true it doesn't work like that but um

i think he definitely would have won like i don't know what to what degree right but t-mac was

he had no he had no weaknesses Defensively, he can guard one, two, three, four.

He's 6'9.

Offensively, run, pick, and roll, make the right pass, make the right play, post up either shoulder, turnaround, jump shot, mid-range pull-ups,

can finish, athletic.

And like I said, I think with coaching and I think being in the triangle, like I said, Witchfield, oh, he would have flourished.

Like, he definitely would have flourished.

And then you got Shaq, who's, you know,

the best player in the world, you know, but like, I don't know if like, it's just hard to compare.

It is.

But, like,

what Cole brought every single day, the mentality that he had every single day, like, you got to bring that.

And you had to have that

and bring it to Shaq every day.

And I don't know if T-Mac could have done that.

Right.

Like, because you got to push Shaq.

Yeah.

Shaq.

And so Cole pushed Shaq every day.

You know, so like, you know, if T-Mac could have, could he have done that?

I mean, I don't know that.

As far as talent-wise, I mean, he was, like I said, one of the most talented guys we've seen in this game.

You know, so I think he definitely would have won.

But it's not the talent and the court stuff.

It's the challenging Shaq every day, calling Shaq out when he's, you know, when he's not doing what he's supposed to do.

When Shaq calls you out, can you handle it?

You know, all that stuff plays a part, you know, and and then having Phil Jackson as well.

So I think, you know, like I said, it could have happened, you know, for sure.

I think Phil, look, Phil, not to say Phil doesn't know, but I think Phil does a great job of managing egos.

Yes.

I think that's his, I think that's his greatest thing is that when you got Jordan, but I don't think Jordan had a rival.

Jordan didn't have an equal in Chicago.

So it was easy.

I mean, Pippin might say that I was just as good as Jordan and I could have been this and that.

That's fine to say now.

But

Kobe really felt that he was on Shaq's level.

Shaq really felt that he was that Kobe, so you got these two horses like that, and Phil had to somehow juggle that team level.

Let me tell you how he did it.

How he did it.

Day one, he came in and he went at Cove and Shaq about everything they had to do to be better for this team to win.

And he coached them harder than he coached us.

Like we never really, like we had film sessions.

It was on Cobe and Shaq.

It wasn't never Rick Fox.

It wasn't never Harper.

It wasn't ever Horace Grant.

Really?

No, it wasn't.

It was always Cove and Shaq, what y'all need to do, what you need to do, what you didn't do, how you didn't do it.

And so he was hard on those guys that first year, like every single day, like own Kobe and Shaq, own Kobe and Shaq.

And so if you get your first, if you get your top two players and your best players to buy in, what are we going to do?

Right.

You got no choice.

Yeah, got no choice.

And that's how he did it.

And that's how he led.

And so

it just made it easy.

Like D-Fishing, those guys, they didn't have to worry about nothing.

It was Cove and Shaq.

It's funny that you say that because I want to transition.

I want to ask you how?

Because in football, coaches yell and scream at the best player.

So that's some horse, you know what, bulljive.

But it seems like in basketball, man, y'all be tiptoed around the superstar.

Y'all don't be saying, like in football, but you said,

Phil, challenge Kobe, challenge Shaq.

How

delicate of a line must you walk when you're dealing with that level of player?

Back then, you didn't have to worry about it as much, but then that was Phil Jackson.

Right.

So he comes in with instant credibility.

He got six championships.

He already won six championships.

We just got swept in the first round by Utah the year before.

So we had no choice but to listen.

But nowadays, it's a fine line because back then, the coach had all the power.

So you couldn't go to coach, I want him fired.

I want him out.

They wasn't doing that.

You know what I'm saying?

Like back then, the coach had all the power.

And so now it's changed.

So if the star player don't like what a coach is saying and you get on the bad side with a star player, oh, he gets you up out of there.

He can get you out of there.

You know, and so that's why it's a fine line because the coach doesn't have the same authority that they had back in those days.

And so now you got to walk that fine line because, you know, you can do it.

You know, you can do it and take the chance to take the risk.

But I'd rather take the risk than rather, you know, have a guy walk all over me.

I'd rather just take that chance.

It is what it is.

You like, hey, die, bro.

Die, die, die, die, die.

I mean, you can let them get away with it.

They get away with at times, but like some stuff you just can't let.

Right.

You just can't let.

Because the thing is.

You lose the locker room.

There you go.

And that's what I tell people all the time.

I see they see it.

I say, and then they're going to like, well, if he's doing it, even though they're not the caliber of player that said player is, if you let him skate too much, then all of a sudden they're going to start coming late.

They're going to start missing this.

They're going to start doing certain things.

And then after a while.

Yeah, but I mean.

It's like any company.

Like, if you're bringing me in $50 million a year and I'm bringing in $50,000, you're going to get away with more than I.

I mean, you should.

Don't worry about it.

Don't keep a scorecard.

Reduction in tolerance.

Yeah, don't keep a scorecard on what everybody else is doing.

You just handle your own business.

So, in any sport or any business,

the top dogs are going to get away with more.

But if it's something that's

destroying the team or messing up the team, then you got to address those things.

But you can't come late every day.

You can't, like, that's just disrespectful to everybody, you know.

With the Rockets, Thibodeau was on that, was on that staff.

Assistant coaching.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He got let go by.

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By the Knicks.

And me from the outside looking at it, I'd like to hear what you think.

I thought that once they beat the Celtics, because I don't think anybody thought the Knicks was going to go to the NBA finals.

Exactly.

But when they beat the Celtics, now the expectations go way to here.

Right.

And then you lose to...

Indiana.

Right.

And then he gets fired.

Is that how you see it?

How do you see it?

Should he have been fired?

Yeah.

Hell no.

I mean, it's the first time you've been to the conference finals in 25 years.

Wow.

25 years.

Yes.

And so the city was on fire.

Yes.

The fans were on fire.

The players did a hell of a job.

And Tiv did a hell of a job.

And so to take a team the first they've been in 25 years and then get fired, like, it's just, it just don't make sense.

Right.

You know, and so

for me, like I said, I thought TF did a great job.

I did.

But you never know the inside of of what's going on with the organization.

But, I mean, everywhere he's been,

he wins everywhere.

Chicago, Minnesota, Knicks, every team he's been on, they've gotten better, you know, and so to do that, I thought it was, I mean, I thought it was crazy.

Yeah, because the expectations now.

Because when you beat the Celtics.

What's the expectations now?

What expect championship?

I don't think when they went into, okay, the playoffs started and you see the seating.

I don't think anybody thought the Knicks was going to be in the Eastern Conference final.

Because you see the matchup, they're not beating Boston.

Right.

So if they lose to Boston, he keeps his job.

I believe so.

Right.

I believe so.

But because they beat Boston, and so they beat Boston,

Cleveland's out of the way,

well, we smooth sailing.

And then Indiana gets you.

And they say, no, we can't.

But Indiana was playing great ball.

Indiana, great team.

And Rick Carla did a hell of a job.

Yes.

And who knows what happens in game seven if Tyree's don't get hurt.

Right.

So like, you know what I mean?

So everybody Indiana beat, you you want to fire that coach?

Like, it don't make sense.

That's, you know, and so I agree.

I agree.

And I was surprised that happened.

Yeah.

And I think, like I said, Tiv did a, did an extraordinary job and then to get that team there.

But like now, when you come in, looking at it, okay, we go to the conference finals, and now what's the next coach supposed to do?

Like, Mike Brown was a hell of a coach.

So now if you don't make these the conference finals,

yeah.

You know, it's like, it's just tough.

It's kind of like the situation I was put in in Cleveland.

Yes.

Like we made the finals, you know, with Coach Black, and now you bring me in midway through the season.

If we don't make the finals and go to game six, I'm going to fail you.

You know, that's a tough spot to be in.

It is.

You know, it absolutely is.

It's just, it's crazy.

But they, but you, the knock is always on Tibbs is that he grinds his players.

He got them playing 40 plus minutes in the regular season.

And when you play that many minutes, at some point in time, you grind them down.

I mean,

I'm looking at Mikael Bridges playing 45 minutes.

I'm looking at Brunson playing 43 minutes.

I'm looking at OG playing all those minutes.

And then

whatever it takes.

Not in the regular season, T-Lo.

Listen, whatever it takes to win.

You got to get there.

Like, no, I'm saying, like, I mean, what you want, I mean, you don't want guys to practice.

Right.

And now you don't want guys to play.

Like, they already get games off, but you don't want to play minutes either.

Like, I mean, I mean, I don't know.

So, what's a practice?

So, give me a practice.

Okay.

When you got to the league, your practice compared to with the practice that you run now.

Okay, so we had, when I first got to the league, you play a game.

Yeah.

The next day, you got an hour and a half, two-hour practice taped.

You're live.

Contact, body on body, getting better every single day.

Now,

practice, I mean, game,

practice the next day is going to be a walkthrough.

You ain't going to have no contact.

Guys are not going to go full speed.

You probably got

30 to 40 minutes.

Oh, we just had a game last night.

What's that?

What does that mean?

Damn.

Yeah, so they don't know practicing.

So, I mean, it's just a big difference.

It's a huge difference, you know?

But the thing is, but think about about it, T.

Lou.

The way you guys did it and you played the many games you played and the way you practiced, you guys had less injuries back then than you do now.

You had to train your body.

I think you had to train your body for that.

But the thing now, now the guys my age, we can't walk.

I mean, we're paying for it now, you know, in our older age, you know.

But back then, like, I think you got to train your body, like you said, to get it to be a bad thing.

And if you go into the finals, like an extra two months of the season, like, you got to train your body.

And I think it's no better way than playing games, playing minutes, and getting in game shape.

You know, like, and when I was coming up, guys wanted to play more minutes.

Like, you always cried about playing more minutes.

You know, so now guys are crying about playing

too many minutes.

You know, so I mean, it's a fine line.

You can't run guys into the ground.

But if you're not practicing and all we got is getting games from you, like, we need 45 tonight.

We need 45 tonight.

Like, you know what I'm saying?

We need whatever it takes to win.

Right.

You know, Dirk,

you played with Dirk.

What was Dirk like?

A quiet assassin, a quiet leader.

He did a great job of just, you know, giving everybody confidence and bringing everybody along.

Like, he was happy for other guys' success, you know, like Jason Terry and, you know, when guys played, like, he was happy for that.

Like, he wasn't a guy that demanded the ball, like, man, give me the ball.

I got to have shots.

Right.

None of that.

And you look up and like, damn, he's.

sixth or seventh all-time in scored in NBA history.

Like, I would have never thought that.

You know, coming out of the draft together and then having a chance to play those two, two and a half months with Dirk, like, just like all great players, worker, first one in the gym, last one to leave, working on his body, working on his game, and what he's able to do, man.

Like,

I would have never saw that coming.

Really?

No, never.

I would have never saw that coming.

But then having a chance to play with him and just seeing how he worked and the work he put in, like, he was an ultra-talent.

That one-legged step back.

Oh, unstoppable.

Unstoppable.

Comparable to Kareem's hook.

Yes.

Yes.

And now you see how many guys you see shoot that one-legged stepback.

Can't stop it.

When

you can make a case that the

most impressive championship

ever won is Dirks.

You look at who he beat.

They swept Kobe.

They had just come off back-to-back.

They went through a Young Thunder team.

And then what they did to the big three Heat

with.

that's did

sitting back you're watching that did you think that dallas could beat the heat i didn't think they had a chance i didn't think they had a chance um

but like i said that zone that they had was you know it was really hard to figure out um defensively they were really good and then just they all clicked they all click and the way they played the style they played was um like jason terry you know what he did then dirt then Jay Kidd, you know, I think it was Sean Marion, right?

Yeah, Sean Marion, you know.

So the roles those guys played and you know, they bought into their roles, they were starring their roles.

Like they just had a complete team that knew how to remind me a lot of Detroit Pistons,

yeah, yeah, when they beat the Lakers, yeah.

Same, same thing, you know, except they didn't have a star like Dirk, but like they all just fit together, they all play their role, and they had really good pieces.

You were on that uh, that 09 team, the magic team, that and you guys lost.

Did you did you talk to Kobe before after the season?

Yeah, I talked to him.

I talked to him.

And,

you know, we're talking stuff back and forth all the time.

Like, he just, you know, he's a competitor.

Yeah.

You know, we're always talking shit.

But

he was locked in.

You know, he was locked in.

He really wanted that one bad.

Yeah.

You know, he really wanted that one back.

Because that was the one that was...

Yeah.

That was the one that was going to tie him with Shaq at four.

Yeah.

And he wanted that one bad.

And you can just see when he got that one, man, he was a different person.

Yeah.

You know, and um but that orlando team that was you had the white highways on that team yeah how good talk talk to us about the white because i think the white gets fairly uncritic gets unfairly criticized because what he he laughing and joking everybody doesn't have to have a scowl on their face to get the job done right there's many a

myriad of ways to do a lot of different things but end up at the end of the day getting the job done yeah i mean People want to criticize for anything.

You know, so I wouldn't even, you know, look and read into any of that.

but he was dominant, like he was dominant.

And, you know, what I give the white credit for is, you know, Stan Van Gundy, who's a coach, you know, he did a hell of a job.

And you remember Jameer Nelson, who went down, he went down, and he still was an all-star that year, but Jameer was playing out of this world.

And he went down.

So they brought me over there halfway through the season, but I was done.

That was my last year.

And then they brought Ray for Austin in, who had a hell of a year and really saved, say, they seasoned.

But Dewite's dominance on the defensive end,

it was like no other.

Like, I've never seen a guy to be able to impact and dominate the game defensively, you know, like Dewite was able to do.

Rebounding, shot blocking, pick and roll defense.

And then what Stan did to take a lot of pressure off him, which was smart, is he didn't feature Dewite in the post, like coming down, just throwing posters

and putting that pressure on him to score that way.

It was more out of pick and rolls, he's rolling, throwback, Rashar Lewis down the gut, deep seals, finish, or pick and roll, Turkaloo, lobs.

And so he was able to finish and get dunks and, you know, seals.

Like, it wasn't, he'd have to use skill.

I thought it was very smart for a young player.

Like, if that was Kwame

coming in, we're not going to throw you the ball on the post.

We're going to, you know, feature you this kind of way.

And he had time to grow, it would have helped him out a lot.

And that's what Stan did.

And like I said, Dewight really, you know, bought into that, bought into being defensive player of the year, bought into, you know, like I said, rolling, sealing, sealing, lobs, duck-ins, running the floor.

And,

like, to take that team to the finals, like I said, Stan Van Gundy, like I said, he did a hell of a job.

And, but Dwight, like I said, what he's able to do defensively and dominate the game defensively, it was, it was, it was great to see.

Do you believe Dwight Howard should have been a top 75 player?

Yes.

Battle to him.

Yeah.

They did him wrong, man.

Yeah.

No, he should have been.

He should have been.

Your coaching crew, the Celtics, you got KG, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Rondo.

I mean, you look at that squad.

How?

Because now this is really your first foray into like being with, I'm talking about great, great players, KG, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, all of those guys are Hall of Famer.

I believe eventually Rondo probably was going to get into the Hall of Fame.

Lou, how do you, how do you...

Because everybody say, man, Lou is a player's coach.

A lot of times the guys go talk to you when they didn't talk to the head coach.

They could talk to you, they could relate.

Even though Doc played the game, you played the game.

And a lot of players say, I like talking to the coach that actually plays the game because I can see, he sees it through my lens.

I see it through his lens.

So

how have you been able to

relate, be so relatable to players while still holding them accountable?

I think a thing I learned from Bishaw, like from my rookie year, I mean, my second year in the league, he taught me, tell the truth.

Like just see him be able to tell Kobe and Shaq the truth.

Like, when they mess up, like, man, no, it was your fault.

Like,

don't go blaming Dev and George.

Like, it was your fault.

And Bishop did that every single time.

And I'm like, just looking at him.

And he's like, man, you just got to be able to tell the truth.

And so, you know, it took me a long way because when you tell the great players and the star players, like, you know, when KG come out of the game, he might be going crazy, man,

I didn't file him.

And, you know, Scalabrian be like, man, you didn't foul him.

He's like, Lou, you fouled him.

And then he's like, you know, everybody cussed me out or whatever.

And then like, you know, three minutes, you're right loud give me a dab you know what i'm saying but like you just gotta tell the truth you know what i'm saying i think stars and guys that you know even you know whatever like people respect the truth whether they like it at that point or not like if you're real with yourself you know two days later you come back like you know what shannon you was right right i was wrong like you were right you know and they can respect that but like you know what i'm lying to you yes you do like if you if you drop a pass it was a great pass but you drop it and i said man's a bad pass like you don't like no he threw that shit was right you know what i'm saying like

you know

yeah like like, you know if I'm lying to you.

Like, you respect honesty.

Right.

And that's, and that's kind of like, you know, how I was able to deal with these guys is just telling the truth.

Right.

So how was it going from playing with Shaq to coaching Shaq?

The last year in Boston?

Yeah.

It was, I really didn't have a responsibility.

Right.

You know, so, um, you know, who was,

so we had Tibbs my first year doing the defense, then Lawrence Frank.

Was Longo Barney doing defense then?

Maybe.

I think Mike Long.

So I really didn't have a responsibility.

I was still behind the bench, bench.

So it was just more so just, you know, him talking stuff all the time.

But like, I didn't really have a lot of responsibility.

I just really dealt with Doc more one-on-one.

Then my projects was I had Rondo and I had KG.

Right.

You know, two of the craziest guys on the team.

You know what I'm saying?

But I mean, both are fiery.

Yeah.

Both are, you know, in your face.

Hey, get this, get it, get it done.

So how do you, how do you, how do you navigate that?

Like I said, telling the truth.

I think, because me and K, me, KG, and Chauncey, we're all three best friends.

Right.

So So me going to ball, that was easy.

And so

he was there before me.

And so a lot of stuff he was doing, like guys would be like, okay, well, KG's going to do this.

You know, he's going to do that.

And so when I first got there, like, they would serve food after the game.

Right.

And so it's kind of like really how it opened up for me.

So

they would serve food after the game.

And so.

They would put the food in the locker room and the coaches would never eat.

So one day I'm hungry as hell.

So I walk in the locker room and I start fixing me a plate.

And so Paul Pierce and Rondo, oh, KG, T-Loo's getting food.

And I was like, what?

So I'm getting my food.

Yeah, so I'm getting my food or whatever.

So KG come, what, what?

He said, man, T-Loo's getting food.

He's like, oh, shit, I can't do nothing about that.

So he's like, what?

So, you know, so they're going crazy.

Like, oh, man, you'll let TG.

So then after that, now all the coaches were able to come in and get food.

So before, the coaches couldn't eat until all the players ate first.

Really?

I'm like, man, we've been up doing scouts and working at seven in the morning, man.

You crazy.

I'm hungry.

Like, we're doing the same thing.

Like, and so, like, they couldn't touch the food until the players ate first.

Right.

So, I'm like, man, hell no, you're tripping.

So, when I did that, like, it kind of opened up everything.

So, guys, like, oh man, KG, let T.

Lou do whatever you want to do.

And so, then after that, I just had all that respect.

You know what I'm saying?

KG, everybody talks about KG trash talking.

I mean, you see, I mean,

you see him on his pod now, and then you, you know, see him.

I mean, you hear some of the clips.

He really talks that much?

Yeah, he does.

I mean, it's more so to get himself going.

Right.

Like, you know, he wants you to talk back so he can, you know, so he can, you know, you ever heard like, don't poke the bear.

Right.

Like, he tried to get himself going by talking trash and talking stuff to get himself fired up.

But yeah,

he was good at it.

That's what he wanted to do.

Rondo, can you tell,

like for me, and I have former teammates that

became head coaches.

When you're playing with a guy, can you tell he has the qualities, the attributes to be a head coach?

Yes.

And it's funny because I didn't know I was going to be a head coach.

Really?

When I was playing for Doc in 2003,

he told me, he said, when you get done playing, you can come coach with me.

Like, yeah, right.

I ain't coaching these crazy.

Like, I ain't doing that.

But, like, when it's over, that's all we know.

Right.

Like, you know, that's all I know is basketball.

And so Rondo's one of those guys.

I mean, he's definitely a head coach.

Like, just seeing, like, he's probably the best person i've seen as far as controlling the game understanding the game understanding how to call plays right when guys haven't had a shot when kg needs a shot when ray needs a shot what to call what to run like he had to look over a dock like you would be surprised at all the guys that are great players that can't control a game and call plays and you know throughout the course of a game but rondo was the best guy i've seen do that as far as just controlling the whole game you know just calling don't even have to look at dock right you know what i'm saying just controlling the game calling the game.

And he was the best I've ever seen doing that.

And so, like, when you're able to do that on the floor, you can do it on the sideline.

Right.

You know what I mean?

And I think Rondo would be a hell of a coach.

But how difficult was that?

Because you got a young Rondo and you got a veteran in KG.

You got a veteran in Paul Pierce and Ray Allen.

And to see this young guy come in and do that and let Doc have him have that kind of control.

I mean, it was good because he wasn't looking for shots.

Now, if I'm calling my own play and I'm shooting 20, no, I'm saying I'm shooting 20 shots a game.

But he was just doing it.

He wanted to get KG going, get Paul going, get Ray going.

They had no problem with it.

I don't want to come in there shooting all the balls.

You know what I'm saying?

So it was, I mean, they loved it.

Was it?

Because I hear, you know, like he and I mean, the reunion, he and Ray didn't get along, him and Paul Pierce and KG for the longest time.

And I think, for the most part, I think they've kind of made some amends about Ray going to it.

So, so what was what was Rondo's personality like?

He had a tough personality.

You know, Rondo fight the drop of a dime.

No,

he ain't taking nothing from nobody.

Nobody.

And he had that mentality.

And so me, my job was more just talk to him about how to control it.

You got to control it, bro.

How to control it.

There's going to be times for it.

Like, I'm all for it.

Like, somebody got a line.

You got to scrap.

You just got to scrap.

I believe in that.

It can't be controversy all the time.

Right.

You know, so you got to be able to control it and be able to manage it.

And, at times it's going to be called for, but sometimes it's not going to be called for.

And so you just got to be able to be able to manage that.

And so, but he's a feisty guy, hates to lose, wants to win.

And if he don't win, like I said, he's ready to scrap.

Are you surprised that?

That he's not in the league?

Because

I thought he played extremely well, the Lakers in the bubble.

I mean, the years he played with the Lakers, I thought he was phenomenal.

Yeah.

How old is he now, though?

He might be a little long.

It might be.

Yeah.

He got to be 39.

39.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, like, I mean, if guys could do it, he could be one of the guys.

Because he seemed like he'd take care of himself.

He'd take care of his body, you know, control the game without having to get shots.

Right.

You know, from that aspect, it reminds you a lot of CP.

Right.

Like, being able to just control a game and get guys quality shots every single possession.

He's that guy.

But you look at, I mean,

you wouldn't think, but he has a game where he dropped 40.

He dropped, he's had 24, 25, 27 assists in a game.

I mean, it's not like he was like, people think, oh, he just, you know, he's just an assist guy.

No.

No, no.

He could score.

He could score.

No, he could score the ball.

And so, but like you said, just being able to read the game and understand how you're going to get on the floor.

Right.

Like, does he really need to score when you got Ray, Paul, and KG out there?

Right.

You know, so he picked, you know, you could choose

when he wanted to score and be aggressive.

But I remember like playoff game against Miami having 40.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, he could score the basketball.

So, I mean, Rondo's a great player, man.

Like, he don't get enough credit for, you know, who he really was.

I agree.

This concludes the first half of my conversation.

Part two is also posted, and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listened to part one on.

Just simply go back to Club Shether profile, and I'll see you there.

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