Club Shay Shay - Tyronn Lue Part 1

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Speaker 2 LeBron James is on an expiring contract.

Speaker 10 I'm surprised by that.

Speaker 2 You know, he posted a video he was working at the Clipper facilities. Yeah, I know, I seen that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I saw that. What that means?

Speaker 10 I don't even know if I can speak on that.

Speaker 2 All my life, I've been grinding all my life.

Speaker 2 All my life, been grinding all my life.

Speaker 2 Sacrifice, hustle,

Speaker 2 Hello, welcome to another episode of Club Shea Shea. I am your host, Shannon Sharp.
I'm also the proprietor of Club Shay Shay.

Speaker 2 Stopping by for conversation on the drink today, he's a two-time NBA champion as a player for the Los Angeles Lakers.

Speaker 2 He's a coach that authored the greatest comeback in finals history with his team down 3-1 with two of the last three games on the road.

Speaker 2 And don't forget, that Warriors team had the best regular season record in NBA history at 73-9. He helped the Cleveland Cavaliers win the first and only NBA title.

Speaker 2 He's the Olympic gold medal-winning coach, first team all in Big 12 point guard selection. His number 10 is retired.
by the University of Nebraska.

Speaker 2 He has a street named after himself in his hometown of Mexico, Missouri. The current head coach of the Los Angeles Clippers that led them to the first ever conference finals.

Speaker 2 Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Tyron Lou. Team Lou, what do you do, man? How you doing? I'm good, bro.

Speaker 2 When growing up in Mexico, Missouri, if somebody would have told 10-year-old Ty Lou,

Speaker 2 you're going to be an NBA player and you're going to play on with two of the greatest players in NBA history.

Speaker 2 You'll later become a head coach and you'll be author the greatest comeback in NBA Finals history.

Speaker 2 If somebody would have told 10-year-old Tyron Lou that, what would you have told him? Hell no.

Speaker 2 Hell no.

Speaker 10 But, I mean, you know, you always dream,

Speaker 10 dream big. Right.
You know, you put the work in, but to like come this far from, you know, where I come from, it just, it's crazy. It's crazy to believe.

Speaker 10 And like I said, been blessed, like I've talked about it all the time, just, you know, coming from Mexico, Missouri, a small town where we call it one way in, no way out.

Speaker 10 You know, and so to make it out and be able to help the people I'd be able to help, it's just a blessing.

Speaker 2 You know, my brother tells a story all the time. It's like coming from rural South Georgia, where there's really no one that you like.

Speaker 2 If you're in LA, you might see someone that you might aspire to be like, or you come from a big Chicago or New York, you might bump into a Jay-Z or you see a Kanye.

Speaker 2 But when you're from a small rural town and there's really no one from that hometown that's ever gotten out and become what we call be on television or be on the radio, how hard was it for you to find motivation to want to leave Mexico, Missouri?

Speaker 10 It was hard, but I idolized my uncle Jay Graves. Okay.
You know, he played basketball. He wore number 10, so I wanted to wear number 10.
And he just taught me a lot about the game.

Speaker 10 But like you said, it was no one to look up to and idolize because TV wasn't, you know, games on TV wasn't big back then.

Speaker 10 You know, so you just kind of had to pick the people who you wanted to be like. And outside of my uncle, the other guys I wanted to be like, it wouldn't have been going in the right direction.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, you leveled up Mexico.

Speaker 10 But you see them with all the cars, with all the money. And, you know, that's kind of like what you inspire to be.
You know, just having money, just being able to do what you wanted to do.

Speaker 10 And so I was, you know, like I said, blessed and thankful that I was able to get out.

Speaker 2 Fast forward, here we are now. You're the head coach of the Clippers.
Big acquisitions this offseason. You make the trade for Bradley Bill.

Speaker 2 Chris Paul comes back after, what, four or five years away from the Clippers. Kawhi seems to be finally healthy because he started to play really, really well down the stretch last year.

Speaker 2 James Harden, you resign him.

Speaker 2 The Bill, the Chris Paul, are those the missing ingredients?

Speaker 2 What do you guys need to do? Because OKC ain't going nowhere.

Speaker 2 Houston traded for that seven-foot monster. And we know he's the elite scorer.
And when you pair him with what they already got, Shingoon, and they got Van Pliet, and they got Thompson.

Speaker 2 What do you guys need to do, T. Lou, to make sure you guys are playing in the conference finals with a chance to go to the NBA Finals?

Speaker 10 I think the biggest thing for us is just health.

Speaker 10 I think, you know, when you start the season and your best players, you know, aren't available when it hurt, you know, you got to play a different style of basketball until they're able to come back.

Speaker 10 And that kind of hurt us last year. Like, we had to play a style just to win games to try to stay afloat.
We really didn't have a flow or system how we wanted to play because our best player was out.

Speaker 10 He played, I think, 37 games last year. And like, I think eight or nine of them was at 20-minute restriction.
You know, so

Speaker 10 we leaned a lot on James. James was great.
You know, Zoo was great. Yes.
Nick Batun. I mean,

Speaker 10 Norman Powell was great. And then Derrick Jones Jr.
had a career year.

Speaker 10 Chris Dunn had a career year.

Speaker 10 So guys stepped up and we took on a mentality and we took on like a, like we're going to be a defensive-minded, tough team and then that's who we became you know so james led the way i think with his leadership i think norm you know being a score the way he did zubach you know being

Speaker 10 went to another level yeah went to another level um i thought was good for us and we had identity it was defense and then when kawhi came back you know you try to integrate him into something that's been working you know now you get your best player back it's kind of tough you know to do that because they've been playing one way and now you break that guy in yeah so this year like i said just starting camp kawhai's healthy and we know when he has a camp and he's healthy, he's a monster.

Speaker 10 Right. You know, James is back.
You know, we've got Brooke Lopez, you know, who's huge for us. I think another big body, we can throw a Joker.
And we're playing against Denver.

Speaker 10 Like, you know, when Zoo's out of the game, we've always been small. And so he's punished us inside, you know, being able to score.
And we had a double team. Now he's picked me apart with passing.

Speaker 10 So just for us being healthy, I think for majority of the season, I think we got a chance to do some special things.

Speaker 2 Does Bradley Beal coming in, does he replace what you lost with Norman Powell because you had to move Norman Powell? He moves on. And Powell,

Speaker 2 he's an explosive scorer. Now, we know where Bradley Beal was in Washington.
He went to the all-star game. He averaged 30 for a couple of years.
So we know he can score.

Speaker 2 But that's not necessarily what you need from him.

Speaker 10 Yeah, I think, you know, Norm, like I said, led a team in scoring last year and had a career year. He was phenomenal.
And you lose a guy like Norm. It's always tough to make up for that.

Speaker 10 But Bradley Beal, like you said, who's been a perennial all-star, who's averaged 30 a couple of times in his career, he's definitely going to be a big help for us offensively.

Speaker 10 So we're going to need him to score, but outside of scoring, we're going to need him to make plays for other guys too because he's going to draw two or three guys and he can make a pass, he can make a play.

Speaker 10 And then defensively, he's always been good, but you got to challenge him every night.

Speaker 10 If he's on like bad players, he's not as good. But when he's guarding a guy that can play, he's a really good defender.
And so we need his. total all-around package.

Speaker 10 And when you play for a team like Phoenix, like he did the last couple of years, you got Booker and KD and you're the third option.

Speaker 10 Like people are like, oh, well, he averaged 18 points, shot 50% from the field and 43% from three.

Speaker 10 You know, so I mean, those are unbelievable stats, but when you're playing with KD and Book, it kind of gets overshadowed. And so I think, you know, by coming here, I think it gets a fresh start.

Speaker 10 I think he's going to be great for us.

Speaker 2 How difficult is it, T. Lou, to get a guy when he's been the guy where he was.

Speaker 2 to get him to come in and say, that's not what we need here because he's not, it's going to be Kawhi. It's going to be James Harden.
And I think he's struggling.

Speaker 2 Like you said, he's had good numbers, but I think he struggled. Because when you go from 30 to 18, that's a big, and people look at you different.
They talk about you different. Right.

Speaker 10 But the talk really doesn't matter because you don't know how the team is structured and

Speaker 10 how they want to play. You know, he might have took a back seat to KD and Book, like, listen, I'm going to guard the best player.
You know, if y'all need me, I'm going to be here.

Speaker 10 But I don't think, you know, with our team, he'll get lost in the sauce because James is such a great passer. Yes.
He makes it easier for everybody to play the game.

Speaker 10 And we're going to need him to score. We don't need him to come in and try to be somebody else.
We need him to be who he is.

Speaker 10 And so keeping him involved and engaged offensively is going to be huge for us because he can do a lot of stuff. He can cut, catch and shoot.
He can come off screens.

Speaker 10 He can handle the ball as a secondary ball handler. So he can do a lot of things offensively.
And so we want him to come in and be who he is, not trying to fit in.

Speaker 2 Chris Paul, you bring him back.

Speaker 2 What are your expectations? Because what is he, Pete, Gordon into his 20th season, 20th season, and he's still a quality assist guy.

Speaker 2 Now, he's not the scorer that he once was, but you're not, you might not need him to give you that kind of offense, but you need somebody that can move the ball. He is a pure point guard.

Speaker 2 He's looking to pass the ball first. What is your expectation from CP?

Speaker 10 Yeah, kind of the same thing with Bradley Bill, you know, just being who you are. And, you know, when you get older in age and you played so long in the league, your main goal is to win.

Speaker 10 And so I think they're at the point in their careers where we just want to win, whatever it takes. But, you know, CP, you know, being 40 years old and playing 82 games last year.
Yes.

Speaker 10 You know what I mean? Like, so.

Speaker 2 Nobody plays 82 anymore, unless you're Mikael Bridges. Right, right.

Speaker 10 And so he has done a great job as far as just changing his diet, you know, how he eats, how he trains.

Speaker 10 And he's going to be huge for us, I think, for our young guys as far as teaching them how to work, teaching them how to be professional. And then, like you said, being a hell of a pastor and creator.

Speaker 10 And he takes care of the basketball, he doesn't turn the ball over. So that's huge for us.

Speaker 2 But you do realize when you bring these players in, combined with the players that you already have, expectations goes up exponentially. You know what's expected of you guys.

Speaker 2 And you guys just happen to be the oldest team in the NBA. See, how'd that happen?

Speaker 10 If you don't have expectations, you don't have a chance to win. And so you should never shy away from that.
You know, as a coach, you should be running to that.

Speaker 10 You know, having a chance to compete for a championship,

Speaker 10 that's all you can ask for, just having a chance to compete because there's about 20 teams that come in every season and they don't have a chance to really win.

Speaker 10 And so for me, I think we really have a real shot.

Speaker 10 Like I said, with the guys we acquired this summer, with the guys we had here last year, with a healthy Kawhi, I think we really do have a chance to be an elite team, you know, and so it's going to take a lot of work, but we can get there.

Speaker 2 How important was it for you guys to get into your own building?

Speaker 2 Because as long as you stayed in Staples or the Crip or whatever they call it, it's really hard to have an identity because the Lakers have been there so long.

Speaker 2 They won so much in that building, especially not so much in the last 10 years, last 15 years, excuse me, but with Shaq and Kobe, everybody remembers that.

Speaker 2 And now you got the Lakers and now you got LeBron in that building. You got

Speaker 2 Luca. How important was it for you guys, T.
Lou, to get your own building?

Speaker 10 Well, it was important. And I know, like, you know, everyone makes the rivalry, the Clippers, Lakers, whatever.
But to me, it's more about the city of L.A., you know.

Speaker 10 And so when I first came as a rookie, like, it's all I knew. And they embraced me.
And just being here for the people in the city of L.A. is,

Speaker 10 it means the most to me. Right.
You know, and so if you're a Lakers fan, if we're not playing the, um, the Clippers not playing the Lakers, you should be a Clippers fan. Right.

Speaker 2 Like, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 Like, it's us against the world, you know, and so that's kind of how they view it, though. I know, I know,

Speaker 10 but I wish they would.

Speaker 10 And so, for me, it was great for us to kind of, like you said, Mr. Barma, when he bought the team, he said, I'm going to build us an arena.
And so, you know, it took some time, and he did that.

Speaker 10 You know, so to have our own home and a place you can leave your shoes in a locker room after move it out every time, you know, we left to go on the road or a concert came in. Right.

Speaker 10 You know, it's huge for us to have a place called home. And it's beautiful.
I mean, they've done a great job of just everything they've done with that. You know, nothing was left out.

Speaker 2 Nothing was spared. He spared no expense.
Nothing.

Speaker 2 Reports are, and you can correct this, that Kawhi trained until the end of the playoffs.

Speaker 2 Is that true?

Speaker 2 He trained. Like, he put his body, he was doing like the playoffs was going on, even though he wasn't playing.
And so when the clip, excuse me, when the Thunder and the, who did they play?

Speaker 2 The Pacers, when they ended, Kawhi, he started, took a break, and now he started back up.

Speaker 2 Why do you think it was important for him to do that?

Speaker 10 I think just train his mind to be able to play and get to the finals. Yeah.
Like our season was over, like we got beat by Denver in game seven.

Speaker 10 But to keep training and keep playing and just pushing your body to that point of an extra two months of the season, like that's tough. Right.

Speaker 10 And to train your mind and train your body, that's what he's getting ready for. So I love that.

Speaker 2 It's hard, I mean, because you know, you're as a player, you play, you play, you play, and you see how great Kawhi is when he plays. And for some reason, his body has betrayed him.

Speaker 2 Sometimes, not all the time, because

Speaker 2 when he's healthy,

Speaker 2 it's hard to say.

Speaker 2 He might not be, he's borderline top five, but he ain't getting out of the top team when he's healthy. Now, you can say whatever, because he can still defend.

Speaker 2 Now, he's not the defender, the two-time defensive player of the year defender, because he's kind of focused a little bit more offensively.

Speaker 2 Back then, he was just a defensive player that gave you some offense. Now, he's an offensive player that can still play outstanding defense.

Speaker 2 But when you watch him and you see, because a lot of people say, man, Kawhi just that low in management, ain't nothing wrong with him.

Speaker 2 When you see how hard he works, because everybody talks about how hard he actually works, and you see how his body sometimes betrays him, what goes through your mind?

Speaker 10 I feel sorry for him, you know,

Speaker 10 because all the work he puts in, we see it every day. And just what it takes to get on the floor on a consistent basis, it takes a lot for him to get out there.

Speaker 10 And so it's not like he's wanting to sit out and miss games. Like, he puts the work in every single day and the grind that he has to do to even get on the floor to play is just tough, you know?

Speaker 10 And so when he tries to push through that threshold himself, he gets himself in trouble. So a lot of times it's coming from us.
It's come from Lawrence Frank, you know, the medical staff.

Speaker 10 Like we got to protect him from himself because sometimes he wants to play back-to-backs, but we've seen a trend. If he does, then you know.

Speaker 2 The amigo swell up. Yeah.

Speaker 10 You know, and so even though he wants to do it, like sometimes we got to protect him from himself. And it's just tough because he's not a guy that wants to sit out not wanting to play.

Speaker 10 Like his whole mindset is to win championships. And that's what he wants to do.

Speaker 10 And like sometimes, like you said, It's just it's unfortunate You know, it's you know some bad luck that you know things happen But it's not like you know, he doesn't want to work or he doesn't want to play like that's definitely not true

Speaker 2 You played alongside Kobe you played alongside Jordan has Kawhi ever because a lot of people say his game is very very similar because he had the mid-range game both of those guys had tremendous mid-range games

Speaker 2 Has he ever asked you any questions about Jordan and Kobe? All the time.

Speaker 10 Yeah, all the time, especially when I first got here.

Speaker 10 And so going down to San Diego, you you know, a couple summers and just working with him and just showing him that, you know, the moves and the routines that me and Jordan did every single morning.

Speaker 10 Like we went to, we call it a breakfast club. Get up, we lift weights, go to breakfast, get to the gym about an hour and a half early.

Speaker 10 And I went through the same post moves that Jordan went through every single day for two years. And so I knew his routine.

Speaker 10 And so I brought that to Kawhi and just kind of showed him footwork, you know, how they did it, what they were looking for, you know, how to take advantage of different, you know, and so he really picked up on it.

Speaker 10 It was crazy. We were talking about it like four days ago.

Speaker 10 When you come back to San Diego, and I was like, man, I don't know.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 When you come back to L.A.

Speaker 2 You might need to come to Vegas to get that in.

Speaker 10 But, you know, he got it down and just showing him all the different things I learned from Jordan and Kobe and just the footwork and stuff. And he picked it up and he really embraces it.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 Is he as quiet as he seems? No.

Speaker 2 No, I mean, he's like me.

Speaker 10 I don't really like, you know, being around the media and talking out, you know,

Speaker 10 around his guys, around, oh, he's a funny, he's a funny dude, man.

Speaker 2 That's what people say.

Speaker 10 Super funny.

Speaker 2 Like, and I'm people say he's joking, he's having a good time, but but when, like, when he, the cameras are around, yeah, he's like so robotic, yeah.

Speaker 10 And that's that's kind of what makes him him. You know, a lot of times, you know, stars they want to get out in front of the camera, they want to be seen, and he's the total opposite, right?

Speaker 10 You know, and so he rather let his game do the talking than speaking, and so you can respect that, right? You know, and I and I love that about him, but he's a funny dude.

Speaker 2 You re-signed James Harden the two-year deal. When you guys make the move and you get Harden, what was your expectation? Because you have seen him from afar.
You see him score 36 a night.

Speaker 2 You've seen him win the MVP. You see a guy goes from the sixth man of the year to one of the two or three best players in the NBA.
So when you get a guy like that,

Speaker 2 what's going through your head? Like, damn, I mean, I don't want to mess. I don't want to talk, I don't want to mess up too much of what he's doing, but I also need him to play within the scheme.

Speaker 2 So what's your thought process when you get a guy like a James Harden?

Speaker 10 Yeah, it's tough. You just got to, you know, kind of figure out the first thing you do is go to a player like that and say, you be who you are.

Speaker 10 You know, and we're going to try to make sure we incorporate into the team dynamics, but be who you are. And if you're doing too much, we'll let you know.

Speaker 10 But when he first came, I thought.

Speaker 2 Damn, T. Lou, you said you do it too much, you let him know? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 10 But I mean, when he first came, he wasn't doing enough.

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 10 he was taking like seven shots a game. No, hell yeah.
And so PG, Kawhi, and then we had Russ, you know, coming in. And so James is more of the facilitator, you know, making the plays.
But

Speaker 10 when he started started to like, you know, score more and be more aggressive, I think we went 35 and 6 or something

Speaker 10 33 and 6. And we had a hell of a stretch

Speaker 10 once we got him. But we had worked on something all training camp about a cutting and slashing and moving.
And we brought him in. We just totally killed him.

Speaker 10 Because James liked guys' space, so

Speaker 10 he can make the right play and make sure guys in the right spots. And so it made it tough for us, but we adjusted to it.
And like you said, when guys are great, you just got to let them be great.

Speaker 10 Right.

Speaker 10 How do you make sure that game seven doesn't happen again because we hear james harden is great in the regular season and then come playoff time we don't seem to get that same level of james harden is it mental is it something that you can do is it something the players around him can do what can you guys do to make sure he's at his absolute best when you need him to be yeah i mean i don't see what the difference is between game six and game seven you know the game six was an elimination game right he had 30 what 36 you know so like i don't think it's a mental thing i think teams are prepping right for a hell of a guy You know, and so when you have two or three guys loaded up, not gonna let you play to your strengths, not gonna let you ISO and get to where you want to get to, it just makes it tough, you know, and so

Speaker 10 that's when I got to help out. That's when other guys got to step up.
And I just take most of the blame. Like,

Speaker 10 if he's not performing, if my players are not performing, I think, yes, on me, you know,

Speaker 10 and so for me, if that's going to be a problem, then we just got to win in six games. Don't go to seven.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think that dunk, that dunk, that put back back dunk by Gord really, it took a lot out of you because y'all had that with him, and then all of a sudden, you like, we're about to, what are you going to go?

Speaker 2 I think you were about to go. No, y'all would have won the game.

Speaker 10 Yeah, no, it was tied up. It was tied up, okay,

Speaker 2 but yeah. Um,

Speaker 2 something that I can't recall, and you were around Kobe a lot more than me, and Jordan, I can't recall if he did it either. But when they had a bad game, they never dunked out on the media.

Speaker 2 No, and it bothers me when things go well, guy drop a 40-point triple-double, the guy got 50, 60, they'll talk.

Speaker 2 They have a bad game, and then they run from their responsibility of talking to the media. What's your take on that, T.
Lou?

Speaker 10 I don't like it, you know, but I think...

Speaker 10 Guys are built certain ways in different ways. And I don't think it's more of a disrespect thing.

Speaker 10 I think it was more like you let yourself down because they train so hard and you work so hard to get to these moments. And if you don't play well, like you pissed off at yourself.
Correct.

Speaker 10 It's not the media or anybody else. And so,

Speaker 10 you know it's better ways you can handle it i think guys should um but you never know how guys are feeling some guys yeah some guys can't handle it you might get them on stage and they might don't crazy up yeah you'll be glad you're like yeah you should have ducked down on that one you know so i mean i wish it was a better way they could handle it but you know um you know if you don't play well if you don't do what you're supposed to do step up and meet the responsibility you know of doing the media

Speaker 2 That 98 draft class, Dirk, Paul Pierce, Vince Carter, Mike Bibby, Al Harrington, Larry Hughes, Rashard Lewis, Antoine Jameson, Jason Williams, Bonzie Well, Ricky Davis, Ray for Austin, Katino Mobley, Earl Boykin.

Speaker 2 What do you remember about that draft class?

Speaker 2 Y'all had a nice little squad.

Speaker 2 Dirk's in the hall,

Speaker 2 Pierce is going to the hall, Vince Carter's in the hall.

Speaker 10 Yeah,

Speaker 10 it was crazy because, you know, my junior year, you know, at Nebraska,

Speaker 10 I had a, you know, I had a really good year. And so I was like, man, can I come out?

Speaker 10 Because I didn't know if Steve Francis is gonna come uh and then baron davis right and baron davis had got hurt and he tours um acl and at ucla and so when he got pushed back he's gonna come out that year right so if bd would have came out i'd have came back to school for my senior year right you know so once he got hurt that's why bd's my guy yes you know so once he got hurt i was like i gotta i gotta make a move you know and so i came out you know ended up being the 23rd pick um but just going through that drive it was it was crazy because i had a chance and opportunity to go 15.

Speaker 10 Like Orlando said they were going to take me 15th because they had three picks.

Speaker 10 So they took Mike Doliak at 12, Keon Clark at 13. And then for 15, they're supposed to take me, but they took Matt Harpery.

Speaker 10 Georgia Tech. Yeah, from Georgia Tech.
And then I think 16 was, I think Michael Dixon, but then Michael Dixon went 14. And then Bryce Drew went 16.
And I was supposed to win 16th and I didn't do that.

Speaker 10 So then when you don't know, you're kind of like, oh, shit.

Speaker 2 You know what's going on? You go down all of a sudden.

Speaker 10 You thought 15 you don't go 16 17 18 so you start sliding you like damn did I make the right decision right and so you know they want to have a draft party back in Mexico for me and I was like man I ain't gonna be embarrassed like I ain't having a draft party don't get drafted so I was in New York you know with my agent Andy Miller at his house and so you know when I heard my name get called by the Denver Nuggets 23rd pick like I went crazy right it was like a dream come true and you know for a guy like you said from mexico that doesn't happen right you know and so um it was like you know a blessing to dream come true and then you got then

Speaker 2 you get traded you're like you get drafted to the nugget 23rd pick Tyron loose yeah yeah that pick was traded to the

Speaker 2 you now backflips

Speaker 10 go from having it to like backflip man the Lakers Kobe and come on man

Speaker 10 come on Kobe and Shaq and like being in LA and then so like what blew my eye was I like when when they said trade it to the Lakers because I know Jerry Wesley came and watched me play right um in Hawaii.

Speaker 10 We played against Virginia, and I had a hell of a game. He was sitting courtside, like thumbs up, winking at me.
I was like, oh, shit, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 Let me keep this up.

Speaker 10 And so they say I get traded to the Lakers. Man, I jump off the couch.
I go crazy. My agent scared me.
Well, this is totally different.

Speaker 2 You're not going to Denver.

Speaker 10 You're going to the Lakers. So this is very important.
You got to. So he scared me.
So now I'm going from being high to like scared.

Speaker 10 Yeah. Kill my high.
Like, and we talk about to this day, like, damn, like, I was like excited. And now he scared me because now, like, I'm like, shit, like, what I got to do now?

Speaker 10 Like, you know, so, but, like, that was, that was huge, man.

Speaker 2 You go into a situation, T. Lou, where you're, like, you're all big 12 and you're handling the ball, you're scoring,

Speaker 2 and you know, that's not going to be you, what you're going to be doing in L.A. So how do you transition? Because you transition.

Speaker 1 Everybody knows Shaq, but off camera, he's just a regular guy.

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Speaker 15 Incoming with the old gays.

Speaker 18 It's Jessie, Bill, Robert, and Mick with a special bonus episode of Silver Linings with the Old Gays.

Speaker 15 No matter what time of year it is, we know it's important to uplift the spirit of pride, which is relatively easy when Palm Springs celebrates in November.

Speaker 23 The first pride I went to, it made me feel like I was really part of something.

Speaker 25 People being so joyous in the streets and being themselves.

Speaker 29 We've really come a long way and I realized I am standing on the shoulders of so many millions of queer people who sacrificed their lives for what we have today.

Speaker 19 Silver Linings with the Old Days is brought to you in partnership with iHeart's Ruby Studio and Viv Healthcare. Listen on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 31 Hi, I'm Martine Hackett, host of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a production from Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenix.

Speaker 31 This season, we're sharing powerful stories of resilience from people living with MG and CIDP.

Speaker 31 Our hope is to inspire, educate, and remind each other that even in the toughest moments, we're not alone. We'll hear from people like Corbin Whittington.

Speaker 31 After being diagnosed with both CIDP and dilated cardiomyopathy, he found incredible strength through community.

Speaker 32 So when we talk community, we're talking about an entire ecosystem surrounding this condition, including, of course, the patients at the center, that are all trying to live life in the moment, live life for the future, but then also create a new future.

Speaker 31 Listen to Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2 Like, you like forgot, I mean, you could score, but you like, nah, that ain't my thing. Let me lock in on this defensive end.
That's how I'm going to have to be here.

Speaker 10 Well, what's crazy is that, you know, like coming out of college, I averaged 23 that year, you know, and so all I knew was scoring the basketball and, you know, playing with pace, playing with speed.

Speaker 10 And so when I got to the Lakers, you know, I came in. It was lockout season.
You know, so the first 35 games,

Speaker 10 I ain't even suit up. I didn't even suit up.

Speaker 2 Damn.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 10 I wore a suit for the first 35 games. And so, you know, when we played 50 games that season,

Speaker 10 you know, Dale Harris got fired and Kurt Rambers took over.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 10 And he was my workout guy, you know, that whole time while Dale Harris was, you know, was there. And so the last 15 games, he gave me an opportunity to play.

Speaker 10 And I play, you know, I play well, you know, but just looking at it like every day, I'm like scoring and practice, I'm doing my thing never got me on the floor.

Speaker 10 But just sitting back and just observing and seeing what guys were doing and what I could bring, I said, okay, like D Fish is a, he's a, he's a good player, solid player, makes open shots, does the right thing, doesn't turn the ball over.

Speaker 10 But we don't have an energy guy. Like a guy could pick up full court, pressure the basketball.

Speaker 10 And so just looking at that and just learning from that instead of being pissed off and being mad, like just learning, getting better, I seen what they needed.

Speaker 10 And when I got my opportunity, man, I just picked up. I ain't never been a defensive player.

Speaker 2 I mean, I can play defense, but like I've always been a scorer, you know, and so

Speaker 10 to be able to do that and see what we needed and then make that my niche to get on the floor, like that's what I had to do. So I was willing to do it.

Speaker 2 You should be like.

Speaker 2 A lot of these players look up to Michael Jordan and all these other guys. Peyton Princeton and TJ McConnell should look up to you.

Speaker 2 That was your gig before, way, way, way back when. Yeah.
You get to LA,

Speaker 2 Shaq, and people always talk about Shaq's generosity. It was reported that Shaq gave you a sum of money to go get laced out.

Speaker 10 It's funny because, you know, when I first met him, we went to the Century Club. And so

Speaker 10 when I first met him, he didn't know who I was. Like, they had drafted me.
He didn't really know who I was. And then Uncle Jerome, like, man, that's the guy we just drafted from.
Right.

Speaker 2 He's like, oh, okay. Like, whatever, whatever.

Speaker 10 He said, all right, well, well, just come to the house tomorrow. I'm going to have my chef cook and just come by.
And so, um, I said, all right. So, I brought a couple of my guys.

Speaker 10 We go to Shaq's house, man, a hell of a spread. We eat good.
And so, we just sitting around talking. And he's like, All right, here, you know, before you leave, hold up.

Speaker 10 So, he goes to the back, comes out with $10,000. Like, here, go shop and get yourself.
I was like, What? He's like, Yeah. I was like, Man, I can't pay this back.

Speaker 2 Like, it's lockout. I'm getting half my money.

Speaker 10 Like, I can't, no, no, no, just keep it. Don't worry about it.
Just keep it.

Speaker 10 That's the kind of guy he was. Like,

Speaker 10 bought Mark Matts in the truck, like, because he wasn't getting around. But, like, that's who he was, man.
Like, Shaq would give you anything. He took care of a lot of people.

Speaker 10 And, like I said, he don't get a lot of credit for that, but he's always been like that.

Speaker 9 He's like a big kid.

Speaker 2 You see him? I mean, the thing, like, he goes in the store, he's like, and the parents will tell the kid to put it back because they can't pay for it. He said, no, I got it.
Right. And he's, he is.

Speaker 2 He's an oversized. He's a 50-yard.
I think Shaq's probably 50, 51, 52. But he's a big kid.
He's a big kid that wants the the best for everything. Everybody.
Everybody, yeah.

Speaker 2 He's a prankster, though. Oh,

Speaker 10 a super prankster. A super prankster.
So

Speaker 10 one time, you know, Devin George, you know, we're on a team and,

Speaker 10 you know, Shaq had told him to do something. He didn't do it.

Speaker 10 And so usually he'll like. put a towel, wrap a towel around his hand.
He'll punch you and beat you up until, you know, until you surrender.

Speaker 10 But this day, like Devin, we had a game and Devin didn't want, he didn't do something that morning, bring donuts or the newspaper or something.

Speaker 10 And Shaq went in the bathroom and he shit it and he shit it in Devin's shoes.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 10 when he come out of the locker room, he kind of like, you know, knocked it where it comes to like the top of your shoe. And so Devin not knowing we get the ready for the game.

Speaker 10 Devin not knowing, he comes in, puts his shoe in, and he puts his, you know, foot in a pile of shit.

Speaker 10 Like, he was doing stuff like that all the time.

Speaker 2 Like, just come on, Shaq.

Speaker 10 Yeah, crazy stuff, man.

Speaker 2 So what did Devin do? What could he do?

Speaker 2 I mean, what you gonna do? Oh, man, come on, Shaq, man. That was unnecessary.

Speaker 10 He was mad, but like, what could he do? You know, nothing can do about that. Like, just take it as a loss.

Speaker 10 For once, you might get beat up, and then two, you might get cut.

Speaker 2 So, you know, you know what I'm saying? You was lose, lose.

Speaker 2 But you was also,

Speaker 2 you played with Dennis Rodman.

Speaker 10 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 What was because obviously.

Speaker 2 He's one of the great small rebounders. He might be the greatest small rebounder in NBA history.
You You talk about a guy at 6'7 that led the league and rebounded for like seven straight years.

Speaker 2 I mean, he was getting like 17, 18 rebounds a game, which is unheard of.

Speaker 9 So what was he like?

Speaker 2 Was he like, you know, Shaq, I saw Shaq said he didn't like to take showers. He would leave and go straight to the club.
So what was he like practiced behind the scenes?

Speaker 10 He was a hard worker. You know, he was quiet.
He didn't really do a lot of talking. But when he stepped on the floor, like he gave everything he had every single day.
Wow. You know, and And so

Speaker 10 the funny thing is like when we wore our practice uniforms and stuff, he always wore like pajama pants and like a white t-shirt. That's how he practiced.

Speaker 10 But I mean, just, you know, talk to him on the end of the bench because I wasn't playing at the time.

Speaker 10 So like I said, the first 35 games, like I'm on the sideline, he comes sitting on the end of the bench and like just talking to me about, you know, what Jordan did and like how Kobe, you know, reminds him a lot of Jordan and the similarities.

Speaker 10 And we should talk, you know, a lot at the end of the bench, you know, but he wasn't a big talker, you know, hard worker. I don't like the way it ended.

Speaker 10 They kind of like made it his fault or whatever, but it wasn't.

Speaker 2 Was he taking his shoes off at that time?

Speaker 10 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 He always had his shoes off.

Speaker 10 He always had his shoes off.

Speaker 10 And now that I'm older, I see why.

Speaker 10 He's comfortable, you know, but like I see why. But I mean, he wasn't a problem at all.
Like, when he was supposed to do his job, he did his job. And you saw about the fans loved him too when he was.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Everywhere he's been, the fans love him.

Speaker 2 You were the Lakers from 98 to 2001. You won two championships.
What was that time like? Because

Speaker 2 L.A. love winners.
And if you win in L.A.,

Speaker 2 you're golden forever.

Speaker 10 Yeah, I mean, it was like being with the Beatles.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean?

Speaker 10 You had Kobe, Shaq,

Speaker 10 you had Rick Fox, who was a movie star,

Speaker 2 Ron Harper, who already

Speaker 2 won with George.

Speaker 10 B. Shaw, D-Fish, then the first one was Glenn Rice.
We had Robert Ory and Horace Grant. It was just like traveling with the Beatles.

Speaker 10 Every city we went to, Shaq had a party, a birthday party. I'm like, damn, like, when is your birthday?

Speaker 10 Like, every time we went to a new city, like tonight, Shaquille O'Neal birthday match, you know, like, and so, you know, when we get there, like the whole team, that's, that's what was different about now.

Speaker 10 And then back then, our whole team went out, like, 15 guys, like every single night. So when we got to a city, we go out, have fun, we kick it.

Speaker 10 But you knew, like, every time we stepped into the arena, like, we was going to win. Right.
Like, and so, like, to have that feeling, knowing that when we go into an arena, we're going to win. Right.

Speaker 10 Like, it was no better feeling. And then, like, like i said at the time having the two best players in the world like i mean what could you do about that would you say

Speaker 10 because you were there you were in it would you say guys were closer then or are teams guys closer now closer then i mean because you didn't have a social media um guys wasn't playing all the video games okay um you know it wasn't a lot to do so guys we always stay connected play cards you know you went out together you went to dinner together um but now with just so much social media and so many you know movie outlets and all the different things you can do now, it's just, it's, it's totally different.

Speaker 10 You know, but back then, like, we all were together every single day. And like, every team I was on back then, it was the same way.

Speaker 2 You're coming out, unfortunately, for you, was in the NBA Finals because that's when people, everybody knew like Tyron Lou was.

Speaker 2 And you took the assignment of guarding Alan Iverson, who was the MVP that season.

Speaker 2 And look, he went haywire. He went, that first game one, he went crazy.

Speaker 2 But you were undeterred. Like, when you, when, like, you giving it everything you got, it's like, come on, come on, come on, T.
Lou, you got to get like, bro, I'm giving this dude everything I got.

Speaker 2 I mean, ain't nothing working.

Speaker 10 No, he's a beast. And, like, I mean, to be relentless the way he was and how he attacked every single time.
Like, and it's crazy.

Speaker 10 Like, he's like probably two, three years older than me, but I idolize him. Right.

Speaker 10 Like, just, you know, just how he carried himself, you know, being six foot, you know, with the braids and, you know, bringing that hip-hop culture to, you know, to the NBA.

Speaker 2 He has a heavy influence on the NBA.

Speaker 10 And so it was crazy. The two weeks leading up to the finals, I played AI in practice every single day.
So I was able to run fast and forget the triangle. Like I was able,

Speaker 10 run fast, shoot all the balls.

Speaker 10 And so I knew everything, just studying the film, watching him and all of his counters, everything he did. And so in that first half,

Speaker 10 I didn't play.

Speaker 10 I was on the side. I didn't play the first half of the game.
And so it's six minutes ago in the third quarter, I'm sitting on the floor of me and Devin George.

Speaker 10 And then, you know, Phil looks down to the end of the bench is like, Luby.

Speaker 2 I I was like, I jumped up. I jumped up.

Speaker 10 At this point, A, I had 36 points already.

Speaker 2 Ah, baby, what you want me to do? With six minutes to go in the third quarter. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 He ended with 48. But like, just having that chance to play, and like I said, play against someone you idolize and respected so much.

Speaker 10 You know, so I know a lot of people make like a big deal with a step over and all that. But like, to me, it's just competing.

Speaker 10 Like, if you play hard, you compete, there's going to be some things that happen that you don't want to happen. You're going to get dunked on.

Speaker 10 You're going to get crossed over, you know, whatever it may be. But like, they act like he crossed me over.
I fell down, he stepped over me, like, he made a good move.

Speaker 10 When I contested the shot, walked back, he stepped over me. And I think the biggest thing was Doug Collins, because he, oh, he steps over, Lou, goes crazy.

Speaker 10 So that made a big deal out of it, which, you know, it don't bother me. Like, people see me all the time, like, you know, that's Tyler.
That's the guy that AI stepped over. So that's how I'm known.

Speaker 10 Not a three-time champion, or you know, like, nothing like

Speaker 10 the guy that, yeah, the guy that AI stepped over.

Speaker 2 So it's whatever.

Speaker 2 Was AI the toughest matchup you had? Because you've had to guard, I mean, you've had to guard a lot. I mean,

Speaker 10 No, he was the toughest matchup I ever had to guard, hands down.

Speaker 2 But when you look at, because I'm older than AI, and I remember him,

Speaker 2 I mean, he's six foot tall, but he thin.

Speaker 2 Did he weigh 160? 160. That's what he weighed.
No, that's what he weighed.

Speaker 10 160. But, man, just

Speaker 10 speed, athletic ability, the way he attacks you. Right.
Like, his handle, like, he just, he could do everything.

Speaker 10 He could shoot it, mid-range, to the rack, finish over bigs, dunk on a big, like, get you in foul trouble. And then in transition, he was like a miniature LeBron.

Speaker 10 Like he was unstoppable in transition, you know, and so he definitely was the hardest guy I had to guard, you know, in my career.

Speaker 2 Kobe, you were close to Kobe. And did you, you guys played a lot of ones.

Speaker 10 You get it? Never.

Speaker 2 Because this guy right here.

Speaker 10 So a funny story is, so my second year,

Speaker 10 I think eighth game of the season, I got hurt. So I had to get microfracture surgery.
Okay. And Kobe broke his hand.
And so

Speaker 10 when we got better, like, you know, just rehabbing or whatever. So, like, for three months, me and Kobe worked out every single day.
The team was on the road. It's just me and Kobe.

Speaker 10 And so me and my cousin Doodle, we would go to the gym and we would play one-on-one full court. And I could never beat him.
Like, I could, you know, because I was a good one, great one-on-one player.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 10 And so we'd be in the car. We'd get back.

Speaker 2 He'd say, man, why you can't beat him? Like, I said, man, I don't know.

Speaker 10 Like, I just can't beat him. And then, like, two years later, he became Kobe.

Speaker 2 I'm like, oh, I see you why, you know, like, nah, I see you why I could never beat him, you know.

Speaker 10 But like, people don't get the chance to see, like, I mean, Kobe had that man handle, like, the ball on a string.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 10 All that and one stuff.

Speaker 10 He had all that. Right.
Like, never lost a handle. Like, when you talk about guys, like, skill-wise, he was one of the baddest guys, like, ever.
And so, some I had to clean up.

Speaker 10 I want to clean up today. You got to.
And I talked to John Sally already. So he told a story on the podcast about

Speaker 10 Kobe was on the plane and like he was bobbing his head. Like, he was listening to music.
And so we was at the card table playing cards. And John Cy said, you're not listening to music, are you?

Speaker 10 He's like, you listen to everything everybody's saying. He was like, yeah, I'm listening to everybody.
He's like, why are you doing that? And he was like, to see if somebody's talking about myself.

Speaker 10 Nobody's talking to me. I said, I just want to make sure I know what's going on.

Speaker 10 But John Cy told a story that I was talking shit about Cole. I'm like, Cole with my, I wouldn't.
He said, no, I didn't say that. It got cut in the snip.
How did he?

Speaker 10 I said, no, you got to clean that up. Cause that's my guy.
Right. And I would never talk shit about Cole.
You know, so he said he got a podcast with the same people two weeks from now.

Speaker 10 He's going to clean it up because that's not the way it happened. But

Speaker 10 go ahead. I'm sorry.
You can see.

Speaker 2 Did you know?

Speaker 2 Because sometimes people like, man, did you know he would be that? I did.

Speaker 2 From working out with him, because like you said, you working out behind the scenes.

Speaker 2 And because, I mean, everybody remember, I remember 17-year-old and Dale Harris giving him the opportunity of Utah and he airballed in the last shot.

Speaker 2 That's what people are like, well, damn, I was like, everybody keeps saying he gonna be good, he gonna be good. I like, well, damn.

Speaker 2 But I did factor in, I was like, dude's supposed to be a senior in high school, really, though. he ain't supposed to be hitting the nba

Speaker 10 you you could tell that he was gonna be that he was gonna be kobe yeah but that not to factor in the airballs to factor in he took those shots what the mentality you know saying yeah the mentality to take those shots yes you know what i mean a lot of times people shy away from it they don't want it yeah they don't want it you know and i've seen that and so at 17 18 years old to have the mentality to take those shots and shoot the airballs like The thing about Kobe, which is different, you know, is I've never heard him talk about money, like how much money he made or how much money.

Speaker 10 It was always about he wanted to be the greatest. Like, I want to be the best.
And to see the work he put in every single day, you can tell that's what he wanted to do. Right.

Speaker 10 And just from like being there at five o'clock in the morning, being the first guy there, working on his body.

Speaker 10 Most 17 guy, 17-year-old guy, you know, is working on their body, you know, getting the soft tissue stuff, eating right.

Speaker 2 He's mature way beyond his years. Yeah, like.

Speaker 10 Nobody's doing that. Right.
You know, and so to see all the stuff that he did at that age,

Speaker 10 it was just phenomenal. You knew he was going to be, I knew he he was going to be great.
Like, had no doubts about that.

Speaker 10 Just the work he put in and how hard he worked, it was just, it was going to happen.

Speaker 2 But I think I forget the outlet. They had Kobe ranked the 11th best player in the history of the game.
You played with Kobe. You played in this league.

Speaker 2 You coached in this league for a number of years.

Speaker 2 The 11th best player?

Speaker 10 I would never say that, but it's my era.

Speaker 10 I don't know, you know, like back in the day, I can't speak on how great guys was back then because they said, like, the TV outlets, the games weren't known to you.

Speaker 2 But yeah, you heard about it. The games would take the late injury.

Speaker 10 Yeah, yeah. So you never saw it.
But in my era, if I had to pick and choose and say, was he better than the guys back in the day? Oh, no, no question at all. Like, no question.

Speaker 10 I mean, to win five championships, like I said, to win two, you know what I'm saying, without Shaq, we thought would never happen.

Speaker 10 And to do all the things he did, like, come on, man. Like, no, definitely not 11.
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 Had Shaq and Kobe stayed together, let's let's just say they would have had a harmonious relationship.

Speaker 2 I'm trying to think.

Speaker 2 It's hard to say because Stockton and Malone wasn't on that level. Stockton was the best player.
There was no question about it. No ifs, and or but.
It's hard to say Pippin and Jordan.

Speaker 2 Jordan was the best player. There's no ifs and and but.
But when you got two guys and you got two thoroughbreds and they running and they looking eye to eye, I'm the best. No, I'm the best.

Speaker 2 I'm the best. In the world.
In the world.

Speaker 2 In the world. In the world.
Yeah. Had they been able to coincide, let's just say for another three years,

Speaker 2 how many championships do you think they win? They could have won eight.

Speaker 10 They could have won eight. And if, you know, I know I wasn't there for the Detroit series or whatever.
And I'm glad my best friend Chauncey got a championship.

Speaker 10 Like, there was some bickering back and forth then. Like, they could have, you know, they could have easily won that.
But if they stayed together, they'd have won seven, eight championships.

Speaker 10 Like, could nobody beat that dude? Like, somebody might have slipped up and won. You know, Detroit won, you know, and they had a hell of a team.

Speaker 10 And the job they did was phenomenal. But, okay, if you leave outside of that year and come back the next three, nobody's beating them.

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Speaker 2 covered is uh kareem and magic

Speaker 2 people don't realize this but magic's rookie year kareem was mvp right magic was finals mvp right but as they started to progress pat riley said i need more from you He called him Buck.

Speaker 2 That's what he called

Speaker 2 young Buck. He says, I need more scoring from you.
Magic asked Pat Riley to his face, you run that by cap?

Speaker 2 Did you care that with Kareem? Right, right.

Speaker 2 Kareem said,

Speaker 2 he's going to get that thing down to the block. He decided to run it by him.

Speaker 2 If they could have had that type of relationship, I don't think nobody beat them. No.

Speaker 2 I think they might, they might, like, like the Bulls won three and then took two years off of what.

Speaker 2 If they'd have had a a Kareem and magic type of relationship, I don't think nobody can beat them.

Speaker 10 No, and I'm mad they didn't. I'm mad because that was greatness.
Like,

Speaker 2 and we might have never seen that again, no, never, because it's a perfect situation, T. Lou, because you got a big and a little, right?

Speaker 2 It's a big, it's a big, it's a guard and a center, yeah, and you're never gonna, you're never gonna get somebody Kobe's skill with shaq dominance. Right, yeah, you saw it, right?

Speaker 2 I'm glad I saw it. Me too.
I'm glad I was a part of it.

Speaker 2 You got an opportunity to see it up close and personal.

Speaker 2 How dominant was it on every, you know, every night, Shaq going to give you 30, Kobe gonna give you 27. Yeah.
Kobe gonna go score 40. Shaq going to give you 30 and 20.
Right.

Speaker 2 To watch that every night.

Speaker 2 Because back then, teams had about four or five bigs because two bigs, he following them out.

Speaker 2 That's easy.

Speaker 2 I mean, you got a barbecue chicken.

Speaker 10 Foul trouble the first three minutes. The starting center is out of the game in the first three minutes.

Speaker 10 And what they don't understand is when you go to hacker shack which is cool now you're in a bonus with six minutes to go now kobe goes to work so any hand checking or just kobe's going to the free throw line you know so like man come on man like it just was i mean he was just so dominant that's why like when you walk into an arena or you go on the road like Can't nobody beat us.

Speaker 10 Like, you know, like, we got Kobe and Shaq. No matter how things go, how bad I'm playing or D Fish or Rick, you know, my beat y'all.
We don't got to make a shot.

Speaker 10 We know we got at least 70 coming from these two guys.

Speaker 2 And back then, you were only scoring 80, 80, so we got to get 10 points, you know, between the two

Speaker 2 between the other five of them, yeah.

Speaker 10 So, shit, like, it don't matter, like, they're gonna get 70, all you gotta do is get 10, you know what I'm saying? So, it didn't matter, man. And so, like, that's how great they were.

Speaker 10 But, like, a lot of teams have a one-two punch, or these are the best two players in the world

Speaker 10 on the same team. Yes, when has that ever been done?

Speaker 2 Do you think we'll ever see another Shaq? Because people don't realize how Shaq was seven foot one, was 325 Shaq could run Shaq was agile Shaq could be

Speaker 2 I'm trying to think of somebody that that size maybe Wilt but I didn't see Wilk play that's the only person I could think of that was that size that could get up and down the court right but people don't realize how athletic shaq was oh man he was super athletic like you know take out the glass and now superhuman shaq

Speaker 3 i keep telling them not to say that I'm no superhuman. Believe it or not, I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea or OSA.

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Speaker 1 This information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company.

Speaker 15 Incoming with the old gays.

Speaker 18 It's Jessie, Bill, Robert, and Mick with a special bonus episode of Silver Linings with the Old Gays.

Speaker 15 No matter what time of year it is, we know it's important to uplift the spirit of pride, which is relatively easy when Palm Springs celebrates in November.

Speaker 24 The first pride I went to, it made me feel like I was really part of something.

Speaker 27 People being so joyous in the streets and being themselves.

Speaker 29 We've really come a long way and I realized I am standing on the shoulders of so many millions of queer people who sacrificed their lives for what we have today.

Speaker 19 Silver Linings with the Old Days is brought to you in partnership with iHeart's Ruby Studio and Viv Healthcare. Listen on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 31 Hi, I'm Martine Hackett, host of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a production from Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenix.

Speaker 31 This season, we're sharing powerful stories of resilience from people living with MG and CIDP.

Speaker 31 Our hope is to inspire, educate, and remind each other that even in the toughest moments, we're not alone. We'll hear from people like Corbin Whittington.

Speaker 31 After being diagnosed with both CIDP and dilated cardiomyopathy, he found incredible strength through community.

Speaker 32 So when we talk community, we're talking about an entire ecosystem surrounding this condition, including of course the patients at the center that are all trying to live life in the moment, live life for the future, but then also create a new future.

Speaker 31 Listen to Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 33 Let's create Smarter Business, IBM.

Speaker 2 Let's push it, you know, go full forward, no look passes, and just

Speaker 10 seeing like how he moved.

Speaker 10 Like, he was, you know, people give him, you know, stuff about being the pick and roll, like, you know, whatever, but like, he was agile, like, he can move, he can side to side laterally, he can up and down, he can do whatever you want.

Speaker 10 And to be that big and be that dominant, like, we'll never see that ever again.

Speaker 2 No, I mean, I don't, I don't, how like, not, not, not, not a guy his size that can move like that.

Speaker 2 You look, there are guys, okay, Jokic, Mike, can make better shots, can you know, that, and Joel L and B, but I'm talking about his size, his ability, nobody will ever be that dominant again.

Speaker 2 Never, Nope. Dude, if you were the coach, let's just say I'm going to make you Phil Jackson, and you're the coach of Shaq and Kobe.

Speaker 2 How do you keep them together? How do you make peace? Whatever it takes. No, seriously, you can't lose that.

Speaker 10 Like, that changes people's lives forever. You know, not just Shaq and Cole, what Phil's already Phil, but the organization.
Right. All of us role players.
Like, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 Like, that changed our lives forever. Like, you keep those guys together and you get a chance to win six, seven, eight championships.
Like

Speaker 10 in LA, like, come on, man. Like,

Speaker 10 no, no, no better thing. And so, whatever I had to do, whatever I had to say, I was going to do it.
You know, and so I mean, you had to. Like, there's no way you can lose Shaq.

Speaker 10 Like, you know, they had to stay together. And so that was just very disappointing, you know, especially all the success that we had.

Speaker 10 It was disappointing to see that happen.

Speaker 2 I think the thing for me is that Shaq replaying in his mind saying he wish he had done things different because he knows.

Speaker 2 He knows he left at bare minimum, he left two championships with the Lakers on the court. He knows that.
Right.

Speaker 10 He knows it. I think more than that.

Speaker 2 But at minimum. At minimum.
And so now he sees all these guys winning MVPs and winning titles. And he's like, and people start talking about, well, he's up there.
He's like, hold on, wait a minute.

Speaker 2 Y'all forgot about me.

Speaker 2 I don't know how.

Speaker 10 Like I said, it's never going to be a player like Shaq ever again.

Speaker 2 No, no. No, not that size, not that athleticism, not that dominant.
No. Never.

Speaker 10 No. And so,

Speaker 10 like I said, I was just sad that it happened the way it did because they were supposed to be together for it. Right.
You know, in my eyes.

Speaker 2 What was Kobe like in practice? Because everybody say, like, look, I mean, Lou Will tell the story that he made him take off his shoes because they were bulljiving in the game. They didn't play hard.

Speaker 2 What was he like in practice? Because we heard the last dance,

Speaker 2 Jordan, you know, how he swung on Steve Kerr, that he was not afraid to approach guys, get in guys' face to make sure everybody was giving their best effort,

Speaker 2 not in the game, but practice.

Speaker 10 What was Kobe in the game? What you saw in the game? That's Kobe. Every single day.

Speaker 10 Every single day. He wanted to be the best player every single day in practice, in the game.
And that's just how he competed, you know. And so

Speaker 10 every time we got a new player like, you know, Glenn Rice, and Glenn Rice was a bad dude. Yeah.
You know, Cole wanted to play one-on-one to show him, like,

Speaker 10 this is my team.

Speaker 10 We got J.R. Ryder.
Same thing. Like, J.R.
Ryder got there. He wanted to play him one-on-one, show him, this is my team.
Like, used to, you know, because you used to be mad over there, but not here.

Speaker 10 Yeah, and so that's just who he was. Like, competed every single possession, every sprint, every drill.
Like, he wanted to be the best. And that's no bullshit.

Speaker 10 Like, it's every single day he was the same person. What you see in the game, you saw in practice every single day.

Speaker 2 You end up leaving and you go to Washington. You end up at Washington with 40-year-old Jordan.
Obviously, he's not the same. He's not the first three Pete.
He's not the end three Pete.

Speaker 2 He's taking time off and he comes back.

Speaker 2 But could you see why he was Michael Jordan? Oh, no doubt.

Speaker 10 I mean, you see a guy that's 40 years old and he averaged 21 points a game on one leg. See, people don't take into consideration, like

Speaker 10 he played on one leg, one knee, you know, for two years. And he averaged 20 points a game, you know, and so I could just see just coming in to the gym, like Kobe, like I said, was a super worker.

Speaker 10 And you see a guy like Jordan, you know, you come to practice, you know, two hours early, think you coming in about to work out. Jordan's already done.

Speaker 10 Lathered up, done lifted, sweat on the court, did all his footwork stuff, all his basketball stuff. You're like, damn, like I came two hours early.
He's already done at 40.

Speaker 10 So what was he like at 23, 24, 25? You know, and so you knew that's why he was who he was.

Speaker 10 And so when I first walked in, I was in awe, like to be able to play with somebody you looked up to and idolized your whole life and to be, you know, T.

Speaker 2 Lou. He don't even seem real, does he? No.
No. See? No.

Speaker 2 People think I'm lying when I say that the first time I saw him. He like he levitating.
And I'm looking at this man. He probably think I'm a, he's like, man, Turley Sharp, little brother, look crazy.

Speaker 2 Cause I'm look, I'm look, I'm looking at him like he not real, because he not real, T. Lou.
He not real.

Speaker 10 And when people see him, like, you know, he never had a lot of security. No.
Like, but when people see him, they stop. Like, cause they're like in awe.
Like, oh, shit, that's my.

Speaker 10 And then before you can really say something, he's already gone. Like, it wasn't a lot of crowd control.
Like, because like you see him and you just freeze.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 10 Like, all the other celebrities and stars are, like, people are going to run to him and go crazy.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 10 Nobody ever really ran to Jordan.

Speaker 2 You can't believe it's here.

Speaker 10 You can't believe it. Like, it's just like he's walking.

Speaker 10 You tap somebody, you look, you froze.

Speaker 2 And then you look up, he's gone.

Speaker 10 You know what I'm saying? Like, that's how it was. It never was like a, oh, and they rush and go crazy because you just couldn't believe it.
You know, and that's just.

Speaker 2 And he played at 40, he played all 82.

Speaker 10 82 games, second year, yeah.

Speaker 2 It seems to me back then,

Speaker 2 I mean, he came in that era. Well, it was important to play 82 games.
Badge of honor. I don't think it's important now.
No, it's not important now.

Speaker 10 It's a badge of honor, especially back then.

Speaker 10 But if you look at a lot of the medical,

Speaker 10 the science,

Speaker 10 it makes sense. You know, it's like to play 82 games.
But see, back then, we play 82 games, and then you had a two-hour practice the next day. Yeah.

Speaker 10 You know what I'm i'm saying like now guys play a lot of guys they were taking commercial flights before this thing got high tech and they took pride charter yeah this guy was flying commercial yeah going to the airport yeah getting in line with it yeah sleeping in in the airport even at six o'clock in the morning to catch flights to go to another city so it was a badge of honor to play 82 games back then like that's what you wanted to do right you know and so um but with the medical and the science how it is today like it makes sense why a lot of us can't walk now right because you know like how hard we went all the practices all the games, right?

Speaker 10 Um, so it is a little science to it, but um, like back then, you wanted to play every game, right? That was just that was your mindset.

Speaker 2 I've heard a lot of people say, in today's game, and the game, the way it's being played, and the way it's being officiated today,

Speaker 2 Jordan at his apex, how many points would you average today, yeah?

Speaker 35 Oh, man,

Speaker 10 45.

Speaker 2 You bulljobby T-Lou?

Speaker 10 What you mean? You can't touch nobody.

Speaker 2 It's a foul.

Speaker 10 I mean, you got the best player in the world. But you know what I'm saying? You got the best player in the world.

Speaker 2 45, T.

Speaker 9 Lou.

Speaker 10 What he averaged 36 one year?

Speaker 2 He averaged 37. 37.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 So, yeah, add eight to that. Because now every time you get touched, it's two free throws.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 10 You know, so I mean, like, the Zoom stuff could be a difference. And you know, like back in the legal defense, but yeah, I mean, I don't see like it wouldn't be a year he wouldn't average 45.
Wow.

Speaker 10 You couldn't touch nobody.

Speaker 2 I mean, I mean, you can't touch nobody now.

Speaker 10 So like the physicality is pretty much gone.

Speaker 10 Anything you go into the free throw line and just how smart he was,

Speaker 10 especially nowadays, like take advantage of these guys, you know, just as far as just IQ alone.

Speaker 2 What's some of the best advice Jordan gave you?

Speaker 10 So when I first came to Washington, you know, so I was in the triangle for two years on the field. So I came to Washington.

Speaker 10 I was like, man, I guess I got turned loose. Now I can just play my game.

Speaker 14 And, you know,

Speaker 10 so when I got there, like, I was just playing with pace, pushing it, you know, just not understanding really how to play the game, but just playing the game. That makes sense.

Speaker 10 And so he just taught me like, you know,

Speaker 10 different reads, how to run the pick and roll. If a guy's playing you like this, you know, do this.
It should be your counter. And he gave me a lot of confidence.
Right.

Speaker 10 You know, I think shooting a basketball because, you know, I could shoot, but, you know, when he kicked it out to you, like Jordan passed you the ball, you're like, oh, like, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 He's like, man, I don't care if you missed five in a row. If you open, you got to shoot it.
Right. And gave me that confidence,

Speaker 10 which the second year when I was there, I was like second in the league in three-point shooting. But it all came from that first year.
Right.

Speaker 10 And I don't think I had the confidence that I needed, like I said, to play with Jordan. Right.
And he gave me that confidence.

Speaker 10 So going to that second year, I was like, man, I was pissed off because I didn't play the way I wanted to play. I thought I was going to be the starter.
Chris Whitney came in and did a hell of a job.

Speaker 10 He was a starter. He played well.
And then Larry Hughes came in.

Speaker 10 And then I think that second year, I came in with a chip on my shoulder when we got to training camp like i'm coming in to be the starter right and that happened for me but it all came from that first year jordan giving me confidence to be the player i wanted to be was he hard on players yes

Speaker 2 too hard no i mean if you do your job you ain't got to be hard on players just do your job right you know so like if you come in every day and do your job right i can't be hard on you right you know but if you slack and if you bullshitting like yeah he wasn't taking that he wasn't gonna tolerate that you know and so um so he was almost like he was he was a player coach yeah on the floor right like if you slack and you're not doing what you're supposed to do right he's gonna call you out he's gonna challenge you you know if you can't handle the challenge then you just can't play right because a lot look he took a 17 year old kid from glenn academy and kwame brown and kwame is a 6'11 he was you know and everybody said well you took this guy but i mean by most draft boards kwame was the best player coming out that year a fenile yes kwame was this was 6'11 could run up and down the court i mean he he had it all first step can drive can pass you know, like I said, run on the floor.

Speaker 10 He's athletic, can do everything, you know, can do everything. But, you know, when you put a young kid in that situation,

Speaker 10 I was older.

Speaker 2 I was four or five years older than Kwame.

Speaker 10 Right. You put me in that situation, I was already scared to play with Michael Jordan.

Speaker 10 If you put a 17, 18-year-old kid with Michael Jordan, and then you're the number one pick, so the expectations.

Speaker 2 Expectations are through the roof.

Speaker 10 Yeah, and so that's hard. That's hard for anybody.
I've seen guys that are, you know, great players and guys that, you know, tend to all-stars and all the NBAs.

Speaker 10 Play with LeBron and, you know, get to Cleveland, couldn't make a shot you know saying like scared to death so you can imagine like an 18 year old Kwame like and Kwame was talented he was skilled and he had great years he played what 12 years 13 years yes and he was and he was a really good player you know and so um people look at you know what he should have done from the expectations of being number one pick playing with Jordan but Jordan put a lot of you know a lot of

Speaker 2 if he had let's just say for the sake of argument he's still the number one pick and he goes somewhere else does his does his career turn out different you think I think so I think so you know, because now he's being featured.

Speaker 10 The mistakes he's made, the mistakes he made are not being magnified now. You know, you're not on TV because Jordan is there.
So you're probably going to a worse team.

Speaker 10 You know, Jordan, when he came to Wizard, we was bad, but we had a TV time. Right.

Speaker 2 You know, you still had Jordan. And then with Jordan, there's expectation.

Speaker 10 Exactly. And so if he went to another team, you know, he'd have been, you know, it'd have been a lot different.

Speaker 10 You know, he would have been able to make those mistakes as an 18-year-old kid, and he'd been able to grow and learn instead of at his pace.

Speaker 2 At his pace. Because everything, when you play with a historically transcendent great player, everything gets sped up.
Ain't no learning. None.

Speaker 2 You got to, hey, go, I ain't never driven before. Drive.
Right. Yeah.

Speaker 10 And that's, and that's how it was, you know, and so he gets McCormick. He was, man, that was the right pick.
He was a bad, he was a bad dude.

Speaker 2 Also on that team was Charles Oakley. Now, Oak, my boy.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Now he is, hey, Oak is no nonsense. He ain't going to take no mess.
Right. Do what you're supposed to do.
He old school. What was it like playing with Oak?

Speaker 10 I loved it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I loved it.

Speaker 10 First of all, I walked around, thought I had security every hour.

Speaker 10 So I wasn't really tripping off, you know, really tripping off nothing. But

Speaker 10 what Oak was really good at, he was a chef. Yeah.
And so we would go to, you know,

Speaker 10 he would cook for us like two times a week. He's, man, throw down, like the best of them.
But, you know, Oak taught me a lot too.

Speaker 10 Like I said, just, you know, being on time, being a pro, putting in the work, how he saw the game because he could really pass, like, you know, just seeing the game, different reads, you know.

Speaker 10 And so, um, he really was a mentor, like you said, to Kwame and our younger guys.

Speaker 10 We had a young team, yeah, Heidi White, Eton Thomas, like those bigs, like Brendan Haywood, like those guys looked up to Oak, and he really showed them a lot as well.

Speaker 10 And just, you know, bringing that professionalism as being a you know, older vet, right? He was really good for us.

Speaker 2 NBC got the NBA pack, got a part of the NBA package back.

Speaker 2 One of their contributors, analysts is going to be Michael Jordan. What type of analyst,

Speaker 2 I can just imagine the first time he criticized somebody, they are going, I wonder if they're going to say, he don't know what he's talking about. What did he do?

Speaker 2 Because they said that about everybody else. They said that about everybody else.
Well, he wasn't that good. He wasn't that good.
So I wonder if Jordan ever says, he didn't play well.

Speaker 2 If somebody didn't play well, what will that guy say?

Speaker 10 I think they'll take it. But I don't think it's more so to be critical or critique.
I think it's more so to be around the game. Right.
Like we need him. Right.

Speaker 2 Like we miss him.

Speaker 10 Right. You know, and so,

Speaker 10 you know, we bought the team. You know, you go play there once a year or twice.
You see him sometimes.

Speaker 10 But like, I think we need him around the game.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 10 You know, and so for our younger guys to be able to see him and see who he is and, you know, what he's done for this league and, you know, be around the greatest.

Speaker 2 How they pull that off?

Speaker 2 NBC, I'm trying to figure out how they pull that off because he's a guy like, you know, he likes to be, he's ultra competitive. Right.
He got a fishing team. He used to have a motorcycle team.

Speaker 2 He has a NASCAR team. So he likes to compete, but he likes to compete, compete, compete.
Like him.

Speaker 2 He likes to be on the boat fishing. He likes to be around the cars.
He likes to go off.

Speaker 2 Yeah, playing cards.

Speaker 9 I don't know.

Speaker 2 I know you got them card stories because he was a card.

Speaker 2 Boo-ray was his

Speaker 2 Bo-Ray Gus.

Speaker 2 That's the dunk. Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 2 He loves being competitive. I'm just anxious to hear, to see

Speaker 2 how he sees the game and what he's going to say about the game. Does he like the way the game is being played? Does he like all these three-point shots? Does he like all these guys?

Speaker 2 I mean, there are some guys that ain't got no business taking a three-point shot, but the analytics say they need to get up 30. This team needs to get up 30 a game so anybody can shoot them.

Speaker 2 I'm just anxious to hear what he has to say about that, Luke.

Speaker 10 Yeah, I know. I think

Speaker 10 that would be interesting, you know, but I think

Speaker 10 to me, I think he's going to be more there to help i think you know help the young guys right help the game grow um you know he wasn't a big three-point shooter so no i think they said the mid-range game is is a lost art it is and if teams are going to play in deep drops and let you come off and take that shot then why would you master that shot right why would you master the shot that teams are giving up and if you see all the game winners or all the clutch shots or big shots in nba history throughout the playoffs they're all mid-range like they're never like you know 20 you know 30 foot through like steph can make something yeah but other than that it's always a mid-range shot that wins that game.

Speaker 10 Right. You know, and so why not master and be great at something that teams are giving up? Right.

Speaker 10 You know, so I think he'll be just be here just to help and enhance the game, like I said, as best he can.

Speaker 2 You played with T-Mac at two stars. You was at T-Mac in Orlando and in Houston, right? Yeah.
Yeah. So

Speaker 2 there's been a lot being said. And I think.

Speaker 2 T-Mac said at first that had he been on that Lakers team, that he believed they'd have won as many championships as Shaq and Kobe.

Speaker 2 Shaq co-signed what he said. And a lot of people are like, come on, bro.

Speaker 2 Everybody just got a revisionist history now. And not to say T-Mac wasn't a good, but do you believe they would have won as many championships?

Speaker 10 Because

Speaker 2 I hate when people do this, T-Louse.

Speaker 2 A great player. Well, if you'd have put him on that team,

Speaker 2 it doesn't necessarily mean it's true. It doesn't work like that.

Speaker 10 But

Speaker 10 I think he definitely would have won. Like, I don't know what degree, but T-Mac was,

Speaker 10 he had no weaknesses. Defensively, he can guard one, two, three, four.
He's 6'9. Right.

Speaker 10 Offensively, run, pick, and roll, make the right pass, make the right play, post up, either shoulder, turnaround, jump shot, mid-range pull-ups,

Speaker 10 can finish, athletic. And, like I say, I think with coaching and I think being in the triangle, like I said, Whitfield, oh, he would have flourished.
Like, he definitely would have flourished.

Speaker 10 And then you got Shaq, who's, you know,

Speaker 10 the best player in the world. You know, but like, I don't know if, like, it's just hard to compare.
It is.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying? But, like,

Speaker 10 what Cole brought every single day, the mentality that he had every single day, like, you got to bring that. And you had to have that

Speaker 10 and bring it to Shaq every day. Yeah.
Now, I don't know if T-Mac could have done that. Right.

Speaker 2 Like, you got to push Shaq.

Speaker 10 Yeah. And so Cole pushed Shaq every day.
You know, so like, you know, if T-Mac could have, could he have done that? I mean, I don't know that.

Speaker 10 As far as talent-wise, I mean, he was, like I said, one of the most talented guys we've we've seen in this game.

Speaker 10 You know, so I think he definitely would have won, but it's not the talent and the court stuff.

Speaker 10 It's the challenging Shaq every day, calling Shaq out when he's, you know, when he's not doing what he's supposed to do. When Shaq calls you out, can you handle it?

Speaker 10 You know, all that stuff plays a part, you know, and then having Phil Jackson as well. Right.
So I think, you know, like I said, it could have happened, you know, for sure.

Speaker 2 I think Phil, look, Phil, not to say Phil doesn't know, but I think Phil does a great job of managing egos. Yes.

Speaker 2 I think that's his, I think that's his greatest thing is that when you got Jordan, but I don't think Jordan had a rival. Jordan didn't have an equal in Chicago.
So it was easy.

Speaker 2 I mean, Pippin might say that I was just as good as Jordan. I could have been this and that.
That's fine to say now. But

Speaker 2 Kobe really felt that he was on Shaq's level. Shaq really felt that he was that Kobe.
So you got these two horses like that. And Phil had to somehow juggle that team.
Let me tell you how he did it.

Speaker 10 Day one, he came in. And he went at Colb and Shaq about everything they had to do to be better for this team to win.
And he coached them harder than he coached us.

Speaker 10 Like we never really, like we have film sessions. It was all Cobe and Shaq.

Speaker 10 It wasn't never Rick Fox. It wasn't never Harper.

Speaker 2 It wasn't never Horace Grant. Really?

Speaker 10 No, it wasn't. It was always Cove and Shaq, what y'all need to do, what you need to do, what you didn't do, how you didn't do it.
And so he was hard on those guys.

Speaker 10 That first year, like every single day, like on Kobe and Shaq, own Kobe and Shaq.

Speaker 10 And so if you get your first, if you get your top two players and your best players to buy in, what are we going to do?

Speaker 9 Right. You got no choice.

Speaker 10 He had got no choice. And that's how he did it.
And that's how he led. And so

Speaker 10 it just made it easy. Like Deep Fishing, those guys, they ain't worried about nothing.
It was Cole and Shaq.

Speaker 2 It's funny that you say that because I want to transition. I want to ask you how.

Speaker 2 Because in football, coaches yell and scream at the best player. So that's some hoarse, you know what bull drive.

Speaker 2 But it seems like in basketball, man, y'all be tiptoed around the superstar. Y'all don't be saying, like in football, but you said,

Speaker 2 Phil, challenge Kobe, challenge Shaq.

Speaker 2 How

Speaker 2 delicate of a line must you walk when you're dealing with that level of player?

Speaker 10 Back then, you didn't have to worry about it as much, but then that was Phil Jackson. Right.
So he comes in with instant credibility. You know, he got six championships.

Speaker 10 He already won six championships. We just got swept in the first round by Utah the year before.
Right. Like, so we had no choice but to listen, you know.

Speaker 10 But nowadays, it's a fine line because back then, the coach had all the power.

Speaker 10 So you couldn't go to the coach. I want him fired.
I want him out. They wasn't doing that.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying? Like back then, the coach had all the power.

Speaker 10 And so now it's changed. So if the star player don't like what a coach is saying and you get on the bad side with a star player.

Speaker 2 Oh, he can get you up out of there.

Speaker 10 He can get you out of there.

Speaker 10 And so that's why it's a fine line because the coach doesn't have the same authority that they had back in those days. And so now you got to walk that fine line because

Speaker 10 you can do it. You can do it

Speaker 10 and take the chance to take the risk. But I'd rather take the risk than rather, you know, have a guy walk all over me.
I'd rather just take that chance, you know.

Speaker 2 So it is what it is. You like, hey, nah, bro.
Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.

Speaker 10 I mean, you're going to let them get away with it. They get away with at times, but like some stuff you just can't let.
Right. You just can't let.

Speaker 2 Because the thing is.

Speaker 10 You lose the locker room.

Speaker 2 There you go. And that's what I tell people all the time.
I say they see it.

Speaker 2 I say, and then they're going to like, well, if he's doing it, even though they're not the caliber of player that said player is, if you let him skate too much, then all of a sudden they're going to start coming late.

Speaker 2 They're going to start missing this. They're going to start doing certain things.
And then after a while.

Speaker 10 Yeah, but I mean,

Speaker 10 it's like any company. Like, if you're bringing me in $50 million a year and I'm bringing in $50,000, you're going to get away with more than I get.

Speaker 2 I mean, you should.

Speaker 2 So don't worry about it. Don't keep a scorecard.
Reduction in tolerance.

Speaker 10 Yeah, don't keep a scorecard on what everybody else is doing. You just handle your own business.

Speaker 10 So in any sport or any business, like the top dogs are going to get away with more. But if it's something that's destroying the team or messing the team, then you got to address those things.

Speaker 10 But you can't like come late every day. You can't like that's just disrespectful to everybody, you know.

Speaker 2 With the Rockets, Thibodeau was on that, was on that stability. Assistant coach.

Speaker 10 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 He got let go by.

Speaker 1 And now, superhuman Shaq.

Speaker 3 I keep telling them not to say that. I'm no superhuman.
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Speaker 15 Incoming with the old gays.

Speaker 18 It's Jessé, Bill, Robert, and Mick with a special bonus episode of Silver Linings with the Old Gays.

Speaker 15 No matter what time of year it is, we know it's important to uplift the spirit of pride, which is relatively easy when Palm Springs celebrates in November.

Speaker 23 The first pride I went to, it made me feel like I was really part of something.

Speaker 25 People being so joyous in the streets and being themselves.

Speaker 29 We've really come a long way and I realized I am standing on the shoulders of so many millions of queer people who sacrificed their lives for what we have today.

Speaker 19 Silver Linings with the Old Days is brought to you in partnership with iHeart's Ruby Studio and Viv Healthcare. Listen on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 31 Hi, I'm Martine Hackett, host of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a production from Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenix.

Speaker 31 This season, we're sharing powerful stories of resilience from people living with MG and CIDP.

Speaker 31 Our hope is to inspire, educate, and remind each other that even in the toughest moments, we're not alone. We'll hear from people like Corbin Whittington.

Speaker 31 After being diagnosed with both CIDP and dilated cardiomyopathy, he found incredible strength through community.

Speaker 32 So when we talk community, we're talking about an entire ecosystem surrounding this condition, including, of course, the patients at the center, that are all trying to live life in the moment, live life for the future, but then also create a new future.

Speaker 31 Listen to Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 33 So you're telling me that the AI that's meant to make everyone's job easier to manage just adds more to manage on top of the thousands of apps the IT department already manages. Funny how that works.

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Speaker 33 I'm the Knicks.

Speaker 2 And me from the outside looking at it, I'd like to hear what you think. I thought that once they beat the Celtics, because I don't think anybody thought the Knicks was going to go to the NBA finals.

Speaker 2 Exactly. But when they beat the Celtics, now the expectations go way to here.
Right. And then you lose to Indiana.
Right.

Speaker 2 And then he gets fired.

Speaker 2 Is that how you see it? How do you see it? Should he have been fired? Yeah. Hell no.

Speaker 10 I mean, it's the first time you've been to the conference finals in 25 years.

Speaker 2 Wow. 25 years.
Yes.

Speaker 10 And so the city was on fire. Yes.
The fans were on on fire. The players did a hell of a job.
And Tibb did a hell of a job.

Speaker 10 And so to take a team the first they've been in 25 years and then get fired, like, it's just, it just don't make sense. Right.
You know, and so

Speaker 10 for me, like I said, I thought Tibbs did a great job, but you never know the inside of what's going on with the organization. But, I mean, everywhere he's been,

Speaker 10 he wins. Everywhere.
Chicago, Minnesota, Knicks, every team he's been on, they've gotten better, you know, and so to do that, I thought it was, I mean, I thought it was crazy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because the expectations now. Because when you beat the Celtics.

Speaker 10 What's the expectations now?

Speaker 2 What expect the championship?

Speaker 2 I don't think when they went into, okay, the playoffs start and you see the seeding. I don't think anybody thought the Knicks was going to be in the Eastern Conference final.

Speaker 2 Because you see the matchup, they're not beating Boston. Right.

Speaker 10 So if they lose to Boston, he keeps his job.

Speaker 2 I believe so. Right.

Speaker 2 I believe so. But because they beat Boston, and so they beat Boston,

Speaker 2 Cleveland's out of the way,

Speaker 2 but we smooth sailing.

Speaker 2 And then Indiana gets you. And they say, no, we can't.

Speaker 10 But Indiana was playing great ball,

Speaker 10 great team. And Rick Carla did a hell of a job.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 10 And who knows what happens in game seven if Tyree's don't get hurt. Right.
So like, you know what I mean? So everybody Indiana beat, you want to fire that coach? Like, it don't make sense.

Speaker 10 That's, you know, and so. I agree.

Speaker 2 I agree. And I was surprised that happened.

Speaker 10 Yeah. And I think, like I said, Tiv did an extraordinary job and then to get that team there.

Speaker 10 But like now, when you come in looking at it, okay, we go to the conference finals, and now what's the next coach supposed to do? Like, Mike Brown was a hell of a coach.

Speaker 10 Yeah, so now if you don't make the Easter conference finals,

Speaker 10 yeah, you know, it's like it's just tough. It's kind of like the situation I was put in in Cleveland.
Yes.

Speaker 10 Like we made the finals, you know, with Coach Black, and now you bring me in midway through the season. If we don't make the finals and go to game six, I'm going to fail you.

Speaker 10 You know, that's a tough spot to be in.

Speaker 2 It is. You know, it absolutely is.

Speaker 10 It's just, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 But it's, but you, the knock is always on Tibbs is that he grinds his players. He got them playing 40-plus minutes in the regular season.

Speaker 2 And when you play that many minutes, at some point in time, you grind them down. I mean,

Speaker 2 I'm looking at Mikael Bridges playing 45 minutes. I'm looking at Brunson playing 43 minutes.
I'm looking at OG playing all those minutes. And then

Speaker 10 whatever it takes.

Speaker 2 Not in the regular season, T-Lo.

Speaker 10 Listen, whatever it takes to win.

Speaker 2 You got to get there.

Speaker 10 Like, no, I'm saying, like, I mean, what you want, I mean, you don't want guys to practice. Right.
And now you don't want guys to play.

Speaker 10 Like, they already get games off, but you don't want them to play minutes either.

Speaker 2 Like, I mean, I mean, I don't know. So, what's a practice? So, give me a practice.
Okay, when you got to the league, your practice compared to with the practice that you run now.

Speaker 10 Okay, so we had, when I first got to the league, you play a game. Yeah.
The next day, you got an hour and a half, two-hour practice taped. You're live.

Speaker 10 Contact, body-on-body, getting better every single day.

Speaker 2 Now,

Speaker 10 practice, I mean, game,

Speaker 10 practice the next day is going to be a walkthrough. You ain't going to have no contact.
Guys are not going to go full speed. You probably got

Speaker 10 30 to 40 minutes.

Speaker 2 Oh, we just had a game last night.

Speaker 2 What does that mean?

Speaker 10 Yeah, so they don't, no practicing. So, I mean, it's just a big difference.
It's a huge difference, you know.

Speaker 2 But the thing is, but think about it, T. Lou.

Speaker 2 The way you guys did it and you played the many games you played and the way you practiced you guys had less injuries back then than you do now. You had to train your body.

Speaker 10 I think you had to train your body for that. But the thing now, now the guys my age, we can't walk.

Speaker 10 I mean, we're paying for it now, you know, in our older age, you know, but back then, like, I think you got to train your body, like you said, to get to the bottom.

Speaker 10 And if you go into the finals, like an extra two months of the season, like you got to train your body.

Speaker 10 And I think there's no better way than playing games, playing minutes, and getting in game shape. You know, like, and when I was coming up, guys wanted to play more minutes.

Speaker 10 Like, you always cried about playing more minutes, you know. So now guys are crying about playing too many times.

Speaker 2 Two minutes, you know.

Speaker 10 So, I mean, it's a fine line. You can't run guys into the ground, you know, but if you're not practicing and all we got is getting these games from you, like we need 45 tonight, we need 45 tonight.

Speaker 2 Like, you know what I'm saying? We need whatever it takes to win. Right.

Speaker 10 You know, Dirk,

Speaker 2 you played with Dirk.

Speaker 2 What was Dirk like?

Speaker 10 A quiet assassin, a quiet leader.

Speaker 10 He did a great job of just, you know, giving everybody confidence and bringing everybody along. Like, he was happy for other guys' success, you know, like Jason Terry.

Speaker 10 And, you know, when guys play, like, he was happy for that. Like, he wasn't a guy that demanded the ball, like, man, get me the ball.
I got to have shots. Right.
None of that.

Speaker 10 And you look up and, like, damn, he's sixth or seventh all-time in scored in NBA history. Like, I would have never thought that.

Speaker 10 You know, since coming out in the draft together and then having a chance to play those two, two and a half months with Dirk, like, just like all great players, worker, first one in the gym, last one to leave, working on his body, working on his game.

Speaker 10 And what he's able to do, man, like

Speaker 10 I would never saw that coming. Really? No, never.
I would never saw that coming.

Speaker 10 But then having a chance to play with him and just seeing how he worked and the work he put in, like, he was an ultra-talent.

Speaker 2 That one-legged stepback.

Speaker 10 Oh, unstoppable. Unstoppable.
Comparable to Kareem's hook.

Speaker 2 Yes. Yes.
Yeah. And now you see how many guys you see shoot that one-legged stepback.

Speaker 10 And I can't stop it.

Speaker 2 When

Speaker 2 you can make a case that the most

Speaker 2 impressive championship

Speaker 2 ever won is Dirks.

Speaker 2 You look at who he beat.

Speaker 2 They swept Kobe, and they had just come off back-to-back.

Speaker 2 They went through a Young Thunder team, and then what they did to the big three Heat

Speaker 2 with

Speaker 2 Dirks.

Speaker 2 Sitting back, you're watching that. Did you think that Dallas could beat the Heat?

Speaker 10 I didn't think they had a chance. I didn't think they had a chance.

Speaker 10 But, like I said, that zone that they had was, you know, it was really hard to figure out.

Speaker 10 Defensively, they were really good. And then just, they all clicked.
They all clicked. And the way they played, the style they played was like Jason Terry, you know, what he did.

Speaker 10 Then Dirk and Jay Kidd, you know, I think it was Sean Marion, right? Sean Marion, you know. So the roles those guys played.
And, you know, they bought into their roles. They were starring their roles.

Speaker 10 Like, they just had a complete team that knew how to. It remind me a lot of Detroit Pistons.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, whatever. They came to beat the Lakers, yeah.

Speaker 10 Same, same thing, you know, except they didn't have a star like Dirk, but like they all just fit together, they all play their role, and they had really good pieces.

Speaker 2 You were on that 09 team, the magic team,

Speaker 2 and you guys lost. Did you talk to Kobe before or after the after the?

Speaker 10 Yeah, yeah, I talked to him. Yeah, I talked to him, and

Speaker 10 you know, we're talking stuff back and forth all the time. Like, he just, you know, he's a competitor.
Yeah. You know, he's always talking shit.
But

Speaker 10 he was,

Speaker 10 he was locked in, you know, he was locked in.

Speaker 10 Um, he really wanted that one back, yeah, you know, he really wanted that one back because that was the one that was, yeah, that was the one that was going to tie him with Shaq at four, yeah, and he wanted that one bad, and um, you can just see when he got that one, man, he was, he was a different person, yeah, you know, and um, but that Orlando team, that was you had the white, the white highways on that team, yeah.

Speaker 2 Talk to us about the white because I think the white gets fairly uncritic, it gets unfairly criticized because what he laughing and joking.

Speaker 2 Everybody doesn't have to have a scowl on their face to get the job done. There's many,

Speaker 2 a myriad of ways to do a lot of different things, but end up at the end of the day getting the job done.

Speaker 14 Yeah.

Speaker 10 I mean, people want to criticize for anything.

Speaker 10 So I wouldn't even, you know, look and read into any of that, but he was dominant. Like, he was dominant.

Speaker 10 And, you know, what I give Dewite credit for is, you know, Stan Van Gundy, who's a coach, you know, he did a hell of a job.

Speaker 10 And you remember Jameer Nelson, who went down, he went down and he still was an all-star that year, but Jameer was playing out of this world. And he went down.

Speaker 10 So they brought me over there halfway through the season, but I was done. That was my last year.
And then they brought Rafa Austin in, who had a hell of a year and really saved a season.

Speaker 10 But Dewite's dominance on the defensive end,

Speaker 10 it was like no other. Like I've never seen a guy to be able to impact and dominate the game defensively, you know, like Dewite was able to do.
Rebounding, shot blocking, pick and roll defense.

Speaker 10 And then what Stan did to take a lot of pressure off him, which was smart, is he didn't feature Dwight in the post, like coming down, just throwing posters and putting that pressure on him to score that way.

Speaker 10 It was more out of pick and rolls, he's rolling, throwback, Rashar Lewis down the gut, deep seals, finish, or pick and roll, Turkaloo, Lobs.

Speaker 10 And so he was able to finish and get dunks and, you know, seal and be right on the, like it wasn't, he didn't have to use skill. I thought it was very smart for a young player like if that was Kwame

Speaker 10 coming in, we're not going to throw you the ball on the post. We're going to feature you this kind of way.

Speaker 2 And he had time to grow, it would have helped him out a lot.

Speaker 10 And that's what Stan did.

Speaker 10 And like I said, Dewite really, you know, bought into that, bought into being defensive player of the year, bought into, you know, like I said, rolling, sealing, lobs, duck ends, running the floor.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 like. to take that team to the finals.
Like I said, Stan Van Gundy, like I said, he did a hell of a job.

Speaker 10 But Dewite, like I said, what he's able to do defensively and dominate the game defensively,

Speaker 10 it was great to see.

Speaker 2 Do you believe Dewite Howard should have been a top 75 player?

Speaker 10 Yes.

Speaker 2 Out of two. Yeah.

Speaker 2 They did him wrong, man. Yeah.

Speaker 2 No, he should have been.

Speaker 10 He should have been.

Speaker 2 Your coaching crew, the Celtics, you got KG, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Rondo. I mean, you look at that squad.

Speaker 2 How,

Speaker 2 because now this is really your first foray into like being with I'm talking about great great players KG Paul Piers Ray Allen all of those guys are Hall of Famer I believe eventually Rondo probably was going to get into the Hall of Fame

Speaker 2 Lou how do you how do you

Speaker 2 Because everybody say man Lou is a player's coach a lot of times the guys go talk to you when they didn't talk to the head coach They could talk to you They could relate even though Doc played the game you played the game and a lot of players say I like talking to the coach that actually plays the game because he I can see he sees it through my lens I see it through his lens.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 how have you been able to relate, be so relatable to players while still holding them accountable?

Speaker 10 I think a thing I learned from Bishaw, like from my rookie year, I mean my second year in the league, he taught me, tell the truth. Like just seeing him be able to tell Kobe and Shaq the truth.

Speaker 10 Like when they mess up, like, man, no, it was your fault.

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 10 like, don't go blaming Devin George or like it was your fault. Like, and Bishaw did that every single time.

Speaker 10 And I'm like just looking at him and he's like, man, you just got to be able to tell the truth.

Speaker 10 And so, you know, that took me a long way because when you tell the great players and the star players, like, you know, when KG come out of the game, he might be going crazy, man,

Speaker 10 I didn't file him. And, you know, Scalabrian be like, man, you didn't follow him.

Speaker 2 He's like, Lou, you found him.

Speaker 2 And then he's like, man, they might cuss me out or whatever.

Speaker 10 And then like, you know, three minutes, you're right, Lou. Give me a dab next to him.
But like, you just got to tell the truth. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 I think stars and guys that, you know, even, you know, whatever, like, people respect the truth, whether they like it at that point or not, like, if you're real with yourself, you know, two days later, you come back, like, you know what, Shannon, you was right, right?

Speaker 10 I was wrong, like, you're right, you know, and they can respect that. But, like, you know what I'm lying to you.

Speaker 2 Yes, you do.

Speaker 10 Like, if you, if you drop a pass, it was a great pass, but you drop it, and I said, man, that's a bad pass.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, like, no, he threw that shit was right off.

Speaker 10 You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 2 you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 Yeah, like, you know, if I'm lying to you, like, you respect honesty, right? And that's, and that's kind of like, you know, how I was able to deal with these guys is just telling the truth. Right.

Speaker 2 So, how was it going from playing with Shaq to coaching Shaq?

Speaker 10 The last year in Boston? Yeah.

Speaker 10 I really didn't have a responsibility. You know, so,

Speaker 2 you know, who was,

Speaker 10 so we had Tibbs my first year doing the defense, then Lawrence Frank.

Speaker 10 Was Long Labardy doing defense then?

Speaker 10 Maybe. I think Mike Long.
So I really didn't have a responsibility. I was still behind the bench.
So it was just more so just, you know, him talking stuff all the time.

Speaker 2 You know, but like I didn't really have a lot of responsibility.

Speaker 10 I just really dealt with Doc more one-on-one. Then my projects was, I had Rondo and I had KG.
Right. You know, two of the craziest guys on the team.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 9 But, I mean, both are fiery. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Both are, you know, in your face. Hey, get this, get it, get it done.
So how do you, how do you, how do you navigate that?

Speaker 10 Like I said, tell the truth. I think, because me and K, me, KG, and Chauncey, we all three best friends.
Right. So me going to ball, that was easy.
And so

Speaker 10 he was there before me. And so a lot of stuff he was doing, like guys would be like, okay, well, KG's going to do this.
You know, he's going to do that.

Speaker 10 And so when I first got there, like, they would serve food after the game. Right.
And so it's kind of like really how it opened up for me.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 they would serve food after the game. And so

Speaker 10 they would put the food in the locker room and

Speaker 10 the coaches would never eat. So one day I'm hungry as hell.

Speaker 2 So I walk in the locker room and I started fixing me a plate.

Speaker 10 And so Paul Pierce and Rondo, oh, KG, T. Lu's getting food.

Speaker 2 And I was like, what?

Speaker 2 So I'm getting my food.

Speaker 10 Yeah, so I'm getting my my food or whatever. So, KG could look what said, Man, T.
Lu getting food. He's like,

Speaker 10 I can't do nothing about that.

Speaker 2 So, they're like, What?

Speaker 10 So, you know, they're going crazy, like, oh man, you let TG. So, then after that, now all the coaches were able to come in and get food.

Speaker 10 So, before the coaches couldn't eat until all the players ate first, really, I'm like, man, we've been up doing scouts and working at seven in the morning.

Speaker 2 Man, you crazy. I'm hungry.
Like, we're doing the same thing.

Speaker 10 Like, and so, like, they couldn't touch the food until the players ate first. So, I'm like, man, hell no, you tripping.
So, when I did that, like, it kind of opened up everything.

Speaker 10 So, the guy was like, oh, man, KG let T.

Speaker 2 Lou do whatever you want to do.

Speaker 10 And so then after that, I just had all their respect.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 KG, everybody talks about KG trash talking.

Speaker 2 I mean, you see, I mean,

Speaker 2 you see him on his pod now, and then you see him. I mean, you hear some of the clips.
He really talk that much?

Speaker 10 Yeah, he does. I mean, it's more so to get himself going.
Right. Like, you know, he wants you to talk back so he can, you know, so he can, you know, you ever heard like, don't poke the bear.
Right.

Speaker 10 Like, he tried to get himself going by talking trash and talking stuff to get himself fired up. But, yeah,

Speaker 2 he was good at it.

Speaker 10 That's what he wanted to do.

Speaker 2 Rondo, can you tell,

Speaker 2 like for me, and I have former teammates that

Speaker 2 became head coaches. When you're playing with a guy, can you tell he has the qualities, the attributes to be a head coach?

Speaker 10 Yes.

Speaker 10 And it's funny because I didn't know I was going to be a head coach. Really? When I was playing for Doc in 2003,

Speaker 10 he told me he said, when you get done playing, you can come coach with me.

Speaker 2 Like, yeah, right.

Speaker 10 I ain't coaching these crazy.

Speaker 2 Like, I ain't doing that. But, like, when it's over, that's all we know.
Right.

Speaker 10 Like, you know, that's all I know is basketball. And so Rondo's one of those guys.
I mean, he's definitely a head coach.

Speaker 10 Like, just seeing, like, he's probably the best person I've seen as far as controlling the game, understanding the game, understanding how to.

Speaker 10 call plays when guys haven't had a shot, when KG needs a shot, when Ray needs a shot, what to call, what to run. Like, he ain't had to look over a dock.

Speaker 10 Like, you would be surprised at all the guys that are great players that can't control a game and call plays and, you know, throughout the course of a game.

Speaker 10 But Rondo was the best guy I've seen do that as far as just controlling the whole game. You know, just calling, don't even have to look at doc.
Right. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 Just controlling the game, calling the game. And he was the best I've ever seen doing that.
And so, like, when you're able to do that on the floor, you can do it on the sideline. Right.

Speaker 10 You know what I mean? And I think Rondo would be a hell of a coach.

Speaker 2 But how difficult was that? Because you got a young Rondo and you got a veteran in KG, you got a veteran in Paul Pierce and Ray Allen.

Speaker 2 And to see this young guy come in and do that and let Doc have him have that kind of control.

Speaker 10 I mean, it was good because he wasn't looking for shots. Now, if I'm calling my own play and I'm shooting 20, you know, I'm saying I'm shooting 20 shots a game,

Speaker 10 but he was just doing it.

Speaker 2 He wanted to get KG going, get Paul going, get Ray going.

Speaker 10 They had no problem with it. Like, I don't want to come in there shooting all the balls.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 So it was, I mean, they loved it.

Speaker 2 Is it was it? Because I hear, you know, like he and I mean, the reunion, he and Ray didn't get along, him and Paul Pierce and KG for the longest time.

Speaker 2 And I think, for the most part, I think they've kind of made some amends about Ray going to it. So, so what was what was Rondo's personality like?

Speaker 10 He had a tough personality. Like, you know, Rondo fight a drop of a dime.

Speaker 10 He ain't taking nothing from nobody.

Speaker 2 Nobody. Like,

Speaker 10 and he had that mentality. And

Speaker 10 me, my job was more just talk to him about how to control

Speaker 10 it, bro. How to control it, there's gonna be times for it, like I'm all for it.
Like, somebody got a line, you gotta scrap, you just gotta scrap.

Speaker 10 I believe in that, you know, but it can't be controversy all the time, right? You know, and so you got to be able to control it and be able to manage it.

Speaker 10 And, you know, at times it's going to be called for, but sometimes it's not going to be called for, right? And so, you just got to be able to be able to manage that.

Speaker 10 And so, but he's a feisty guy, hates to lose, wants to win. And if he don't win, like I said, he's ready to to scrap.

Speaker 2 Are you surprised that he's not in the league? Because

Speaker 2 I thought he played extremely well, the Lakers in the bubble.

Speaker 2 I mean, the years he played with the Lakers, I thought he was phenomenal.

Speaker 10 Yeah. How old is he now, though?

Speaker 2 He might be a little long. He might be.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he got to be. 39.

Speaker 10 39. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. I mean, like, I mean, if guys could do it, he could be one of the guys.

Speaker 2 Because he seemed like he'd take care of his body.

Speaker 10 He takes care of his body, you know, control the game without having to get shots. Right.
You know, from that aspect, it reminds you a lot of CP. Right.

Speaker 10 Like being able to just control the game and get guys quality shots every single possession. He's that guy.

Speaker 2 But you look at, I mean,

Speaker 2 you wouldn't think, but he has a game where he dropped 40. He dropped, he's had 24, 25, 27 assists in a game.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's not like he was like, people think, oh, he just, you know, he just an assist guy. No.
No, no. He could score.
He could score.

Speaker 10 No, he could score the ball. And so, but like you said, just being able to read the game and understand how you're going to get on the floor.
Right.

Speaker 10 Like, does he really need to score when you got Ray, Paul, and KG out there? Right, you know, so he picked me, you know, he picked two, yeah, you know, when he wanted to score and be aggressive.

Speaker 10 But I remember like playoff game against Miami having 40, yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like he could, yeah, he could score the basketball. So, I mean, Rondo's a great player, man.

Speaker 10 Like, he doesn't get enough credit for you know who he really was.

Speaker 2 I agree. This concludes the first half of my conversation.
Part two is also posted, and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listen to part one on.

Speaker 2 Just simply go back to Club Shea Shea Shea profile, and I'll see you there.

Speaker 1 And now, Superhuman Shaq.

Speaker 3 I keep telling them not to say that. I'm no superhuman.
Believe it or not, I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or OSA.

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Speaker 3 Let's just say it can sound a lot like this.

Speaker 3 Sound familiar? Learn more at don't sleep on OSA.com.

Speaker 1 This information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company.

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