Nightcap Hour 1: FRUSTRATED Shedeur Sanders goes SILENT + DOLPHINS Darren Waller on NFL COMEBACK & Overcoming ADDICTION

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Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap.

Y'all know who I am.

I'm your favorite unc, Shannon Sharp, the guy that's adjusting his camera, getting the light set up.

He's Liberty City's own.

He's Bingle Ring of Fame Honoree, a Madden Ratings Adjuster,

former Pro Bowler, and an all-pro.

That's Chad Ocho Cinco Johnson.

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We got Darren Waller joining us.

uh at the bottom of the hour earnest jones is going to join us at the top of the hour so uh we really appreciate our guests staying up and joining us tonight.

The Cleveland Browns have announced that their third-round pick, Dylan Gabriel, will start Sunday against the Minnesota Vikings in London.

When asked about

Gabriel getting the starting job, it was literally

left Shador speechless.

Ocho, let's take a listen to the son.

Yeah, yeah, let me hear that thing.

Vocally, anything to say?

say?

What do you think you have to show, you know, show to some coaches just to have them have that belief in the fact that you can be ready?

What game do you say?

I'm just saying.

How much has Joe been important to both you and Dylan in terms of your guys' development to this point?

Oh, Joe, do you like the way Shador handled this press conference?

Absolutely.

Absolutely, because whatever he says, they're going to twist his words.

If you say nothing,

you know, there's really, wait, on any other team, there are 31 other quarters, excuse me, there are 31 other teams.

Do any of those media members talk to the third string quarterback?

No.

It's controversy.

Why create controversy?

How do you not create it?

By when they ask you questions, you just don't answer.

You just don't answer.

If anything, they should be talking to Joe Flacco.

Why are you talking to Shadur?

I mean, it makes no sense.

And I like the way he handled it because anything he does say, they're going to make it a big deal.

They're going to twist his words.

They're going to take it completely out of context.

Listen, Dylan Gabriel's a starter.

So be it.

For me, I mean, it's being reported.

Adam Schefter reported, and some other networks are starting to report that this was his response to Rex Ryan saying what he said on the Sunday show: that keep your mouth closed, move to the front of the class, and X, Y, and Z.

Okay, I like that.

I like that.

I guess this was a situation where he's like, okay, I should keep my mouth shut.

I'm going to keep my mouth shut.

It's hard for me to believe that the scenario that he didn't talk to his father,

obviously, he leans very heavily on his father, rightfully so.

His dad has been through things like this

where, you know, he says something and then

if he says something, it's one thing.

If he doesn't say something, it's another thing.

So he took this approach.

Look,

he's not just any

other quarterback, any other third string quarterback.

No.

You and I both know.

If he was any other quarterback and he slid down where he did, we wouldn't even be having it.

If he was any normal fifth-round pick, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

But he's not a fifth-round pick, so we shouldn't

ask him to act like a fifth-round pick because that's not what we believe he is.

Um, for me, look,

um,

if he'd have to, if he'd have to proceed, look, I'm happy for Dylan.

Right.

Um, hopefully, he goes out there and plays well.

Um, Joe, I feel bad for Joe, but you know, this is this is the game of football.

This is a business, and hey,

um, I'm just, you know, I'm happy for Dylan, and my job doesn't change right i go out there i prepare uh and if my time if my number is called i'm gonna go out there and give it everything that i possibly got that's the really the only thing that he can say oh joe what what's he's what's he supposed to say yeah now

it's a situation i'm not you know we had this conversation and everybody from cleveland jumped on me i said guys what are we doing right why why is joe flacco here yeah we know joe flacco was in cleveland once before and they let him go he was in indy and he wasn't let me get this straight He wasn't the answer the first time around in Cleveland.

He wasn't the answer in Indy.

He wasn't the answer at the Jets.

But now he's going to be the answer this time around.

Joe Flacco hadn't been the answer since 2012

when he took the Ravens to the Super Bowl.

And that's it.

Go ahead, Ojo.

Nigga,

I don't think he was the answer.

It was more sure of the short-term, the short term, excuse me.

The short-term answer until they're ready to see who's going to be quarterback number two.

We find out who quarterback number two was, and it was only a matter of time.

Same thing with Russell Wilson and Jackson Dart.

Russell Wilson was a starter.

He was a starter for a short time.

Like you said, eight weeks or maybe after.

I thought it would have been way,

I thought it would have been far beyond that.

But obviously we see what happened.

They made a change after week three.

Same concept.

I knew he wasn't going to be there, being there too long.

And I mean, listen, Dylan Gabriel is now the quarterback.

I wish him luck.

And

we're going to see.

To me, to be honest with with you, I don't think he's the answer.

I don't think he's the answer.

And we're going to find out.

Listen, this ain't the preseason.

This ain't the preseason.

And the defenses that you're going to see now are going to be a lot more different than what you saw

during the preseason.

So

if he can handle the pressure, one of the things I do like about Dylan Gabriel, it not only can he throw the ball, he showed that he can be efficient in the preseason, but he's also a dual threat.

He can use his legs.

Similar to Jackson Dart.

I'm not saying Jackson Dart, but I'm just saying saying he has that dude threat capability and being able to extend plays and throw the ball

i you know it's the like it's it's funny how we we look at things now

jameis winston has a big personality he's a third string quarterback everybody would have lied to jameis had he did the exact same thing

right

i mean think about it ocho yeah The funny things that he says and the mannerisms that he has.

Yes.

This is Jameis.

Yeah, absolutely.

But they have a problem with Shadur.

I don't don't know how Shadur wins.

If he says something, he shouldn't have said anything.

If he doesn't say anything, he should have said something.

Until he gets on the field and somebody can say, either, see, I told you he could play or I told you he couldn't play.

It's going to be a something, Ocho.

That's just the way.

That's just the nature of what it is.

Absolutely.

You know, it's totally unfortunate too.

If it was any fifth-round pick, he wouldn't be talked about like this.

No.

Because this would come with that last name.

Yeah, absolutely.

This comes with the aura of being a Sanders.

It just, it is what it is.

Obviously, I feel the Browns and the organization.

Zefansky, obviously, the owner himself came out and said, this wasn't my pick.

This is not who I wanted.

So the odds are stacked against him.

The cards that he dealt, he's going to have to do his best job at playing the hand that he has.

When that opportunity comes, if it does come, you got to come out.

You got to be prepared.

You got to be prepared.

And when you get it, you got to shut that door behind you.

I get it.

Look, people say, well, Jameis proved himself.

What?

That he's a journeyman quarterback.

He threw 30 picks.

He was the last quarterback in the NFL.

Since you got to go back to Test Diverde in the 80s, it threw 30 interceptions.

So I'm trying to figure out what did he prove.

Did he take Tampa to the Super Bowl?

Because all I know, the team that he left, Tom Brady came in the next year and they went to the Super Bowl.

So I'm asking you guys, you said he proved.

What did he prove?

If he'd have proved, guess where he'd have been, Ocho?

Not the backup in New York, where would he have been?

Because where was he last year, Ocho?

Cleveland.

Cleveland, yeah.

He was in New Orleans before that.

Yeah.

All I'm saying, I'm saying the personality matches.

We can, look,

prove, prove.

Okay, fine.

I get your point.

Where he started in the league.

He was rookie of the year in the league.

You're absolutely correct.

But

there are a lot of guys that's proved they could.

Joe Flacco proved that he could play in the league.

Joe Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl.

He was a Super Bowl MVP.

Go look at Joe Flacco playoff numbers.

I mean, you would say that Joe Flacco would have proven more if you say improve than Jameis.

I was just saying the personalities.

When we like somebody, Ocho, we'll tolerate more of their behavior than if we don't.

See, we like Jameis.

Jameis funny, man.

Y'all heard what Jame was saying?

Jameis funny.

Jameis is going to have a career in media.

Yeah, Jameis is one-on-one.

Jameis is

there isn't another personality like him.

I think Shador doesn't have that kind of personality.

I think people just don't like Shador based on the or what he comes with, the name,

pops as well.

Some of the things Dion may have said in the past, people that like Dion.

So any ill will toward Dion, it just overflowing onto his son as well.

For me, Unc, you ignore it, especially as

Shador, you ignore it.

You've been prepared for this moment.

You've had the deal all your life.

Now it's come to a head.

You're at the last stop.

You've reached the pinnacle.

Your childhood dream of being on the NFL team.

You're not the starter, but you have an opportunity to be the starter at some time if things don't go well.

You just need to make sure you are prepared when the opportunity presents itself.

And that's pretty much it.

All the noise, block all that out, man.

Block all that out.

It's just unusual

to see the starter get benched

and

well i guess it's it's common because the when when russ got benched jackson dart came in to start and russell went to the backup right

so i guess it's not as unusual as we might think it is you're like well hold on flacco got benched Shadua was already third.

Shouldn't everybody just like move up a spot and the guy jumps back?

But that's seemingly not how they did it because Brian Dayball said that Jackson Dart would start the rest of the season and Russ would serve as his backup, and Jameis stays where Jameis is.

And

I don't,

I guess it's common.

I don't really know Ocho,

but it seemed like this is the same thing.

Joe Flacco lost his job.

The guy that was backing up, Joe Flacco, moves to the starter, and Flacco moves to number two.

And the third quarterback stays exactly where he was.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think the thing is until Shador gets on the field and proves or disproves

what the Ocho is 50, I mean, want to play, he's too cocky, he's too this, he does this and he does that, the mannerisms

until he's on the field,

until he plays,

the chatter, the noise is not going to stop.

No, it's not.

It's not.

Are you muted?

Me?

He ain't said nothing.

I can't hear him.

You can't hear me?

Oh, just me?

Yeah, that's you.

I'm talking to you.

Can you hear me now?

Hey, can you see my muscles?

You see my muscles?

Hey, chat, can you see my muscles?

Yeah.

Okay, there you go.

You got me now?

Yeah, I got you.

Go ahead.

That was me.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I can't hear you now.

But they, but it's, it's a situation, Ocho.

People want to see him succeed or they want to see him fail, but they want to see him on the field.

Yeah.

That's what it comes.

That's what it comes down to, Ocho.

I want to see him on the field and I want to see him sink or swim.

Right.

Yeah.

That's what it comes down to because all this talk, well, he shouldn't have been this or he shouldn't have been that.

Now he's going to either prove

a camp right or he's going to be proven wrong.

Right.

But they want to say, okay, we see now that's why he slid to the fifth round.

Man, I don't know how y'all see how he's playing.

He should have never been in the sixth round.

I mean, the fifth round.

Right.

You don't know.

I'm sure he talked to his dad.

Yeah.

His dad's like, look, son, if it was me, you handle it.

You're your own guy.

You're your own man.

But

Rex said,

I don't know exactly, I don't want to misquote, but I think he said something to the fact why you're talking because it's the same situation

and and here's where he's going to get beat up at if he doesn't go play in and he doesn't play well ocho remember he said he can play better than some of the starting quarterbacks right now yeah that's what got lebron in trouble with bronnie yeah bronnie was in high school or bronnie was in college and he braun said Bronny is better than some NBA players currently.

You put a huge target.

Now, I get it.

When you tell your son, you know, you believe in your son and you should believe in your son.

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But when you put it out there like that, Ocho, man, you're asking.

You're asking for a lot of criticism.

We'll get back to that in a minute.

We got a very special guest joining us.

We got former Pro Bowler, former Raven, former New York Giant,

former Raider joining us.

Darren Waller.

Darren, how you doing?

What's going on man?

How y'all doing?

Appreciate y'all having me.

Man, I'm doing amazing.

Let me ask you, bro.

You playing, I mean, look, you have a little setback, and we'll get into that a little bit.

You get drafted by the Ravens.

You have, you know, have some issues.

You end up going to the Ravens where you revive your career, playing unbelievable.

You go to the Giants and having success there, and then abruptly, you know, you stepped away from the game.

What went into that decision that you're playing basically at the height of your career and you say, you know what?

I need to step away.

I feel like mentally and emotionally, I feel like I kept running into similar walls I was running into earlier in my career.

I wasn't necessarily sabotaging myself in the same way, but I just felt like I kept running to the wall like this, this isn't really fulfilling to me.

I feel like...

There's a lot more room for me to be having joy here.

And I'm not having joy.

So I feel like I needed to step away to really just reevaluate my life while I was doing the things I was doing.

Was I doing them for me or was I doing them for other people to give me a thumbs up, shit like that?

So I feel like taking that time away really presented an organic moment for me to come back and join the Dolphins.

You know what?

When I think about it too, when you think about that organic moment for you and being able to get away and having a sense of peace for most, usually football allows us to get that peace away from the world,

away from reality.

Are you in a space now?

Are you in a headspace now where you think you fulfilled whatever it is you needed to step away from the game from, and now you can devote your attention to just football?

Yeah, I just feel a lot lighter, a lot purer.

Just in my life, you know, I feel like there was a lot of things I was involved in or trying to do just to,

I don't know, escape the game in a way.

But now I feel like the perspective I got from these last couple of years allows me to step in and just see it the way I saw it like when I was a kid.

You know what I'm saying?

Just being excited to play, like having fun like with a team just cutting up like it's just i just see it with a whole new pair of glasses now

yeah that's dope when you stepped away from the game did you think it would be as easy as it was to get get back in because normally you know getting in is easy getting back in is really really hard yeah i feel like dudes ain't just really just like stepping away and then being like oh i want to come back usually they step away it's like there really ain't no coming back so me coming back into it I mean, I feel like I've always respected the game.

So I'm like, dudes, it's still just as fast, stronger, maybe even more so.

So I'm like, shit.

I practiced maybe

three full practices, a couple of limited ones earlier, right when camp first ended.

So I was like, I don't even really know what I'm going to be like when I step back into this.

Like I'm going to get hit too.

I ain't got hit in two years.

And then to have it go how it went on Monday was just like,

you couldn't even script that for real.

I think, but when you think about it too, when you were in the game, you were still one of the better players in the league at your position.

I mean, just removing yourself for two years, two years from that and coming back with just two years, you're still going to be one of the better players at your position, as you saw when you guys played.

So I'm excited for you.

Skies is obviously the limits.

Tyreek Hill is now gone.

And so that puts you to even, even more of a bigger role because knowing Mike McDaniels and the creativity he has offensively, you can create mismatches with you all damn day.

All damn day.

For sure.

Straight up.

How long did it take you for your spidey senses to come back?

Because, you know, like when you entroy, like when you take like four months off, it takes you a while to really understand, like, okay, this is where my danger spotty of danger over here.

The guys coming up from behind.

I need to get up in my shadow.

Being away for two years, I can only imagine, and your spidey senses are shut off for two years.

How soon did it take them to start tingling again?

Where you felt, okay, this is man's zone.

I got danger on my right.

I need to get up in my shadow.

I need to spend left.

I need to spend right.

How long did that take for it to come back?

Bro, I still feel like it's coming back.

Cause like during the week of practice last week, like we had like put a play in where I was kind of running like

a choice, but like it kind of turns into like a wheel route.

And I was out there like on the red line.

I'm taking them on the red line.

I catch it like my feet are just barely in bounds.

So I'm like, I got to get my field spacing back.

But luckily, like that first play, that first third down of the game, it was just like, two man.

And I'm just like, all right, like, I know what this looks like.

I beat this a million times.

And just like that muscle memory came back but no you definitely right like i feel like the spacing reading the zone seeing how things coverages react from the disguise like post snap i feel like oh that's got to come back with reps

yeah well i mean and speaking of reps was the game too fast for you did it did it feel like you were moving in slow motion a little bit being that you've been away from the game and listen you didn't get a chance to play in the preseason uh i'm not sure but game speeding totally different it doesn't matter how much you practice once you get in the game playing against somebody else you'd be like what the hell?

Have you caught up to that yet?

Are your legs up underneath you yet?

I feel like it was a good start.

Monday, you know what I'm saying?

Like, I was getting, you know, reps against guys like Sauce.

And, you know, there's good athletic guys on that defense that's moving fast.

So I feel like it's a good start.

And, you know, I'll probably see matchup with guys like JC on Sunday with the Panthers.

They got some guys that can cover.

So, I mean, I feel like it's only going to get better for me.

I feel like the little things, tops of the routes, just to feel like how how I'm feeling in stems and just, you know, playing fast and not really thinking is going to probably take some time.

But I feel like I'm probably further along than I think I was just off Monday night because I didn't know what to expect.

I think the thing is, is that you, like you said, I mean, you really haven't, it wasn't like you were out running routes because you didn't know if you were going to come back.

And so now basically they're putting you out there and you got to, hey, do I rip?

Do I swim?

What do I do?

Do I press?

I mean, do I get on the outside?

I know I don't want to square him up because I don't want him to get my whole chest.

I just want to give him a shoulder to hit.

How soon did the route running aspect of it come back?

Like I said, bro, it's still coming back, bro.

Like I got, so I had got injured when a few weeks into my training of when I said, all right, I'm going to play again.

And that had me out for real until last week.

So like I had a few practices before I got hopped in that game.

So it's really all just coming back to me as we go along.

So like these Wednesday, these Thursday practices is like super intentional.

You get better and feel feel yeah super intentional for me to kind of like all right how can i curate like everything that dudes was doing throughout camp you know i'm kind of like trying to hustle up and kind of get back into into that flow but also just understand like you know i am where i'm where i am i'm supposed to be here right now i ain't got to be where anybody else is at in their journey uh my journey is probably as weird and unique as it gets you know saying

with

The Tyreek, were you on the field when Tyreek got injured or did you see it on the jumbo tron when I was was right there.

So we had ran like, I don't know if they call it a crash concept in your day, but it's like the dude in the slot runs like the 12-yard out and you got the under from number one.

The smash route.

Yeah, we smashed the smash route.

I ran a little under from number one and I seen the ball go over my head.

So I turned.

I'm like, and Reek caught it.

And then I just saw like, and then I seen his leg dangling and it was just like, like just instantly just like, it just brought me to the ground.

Like I ain't even know.

My body just didn't even know how to react.

Yeah, because they said he

suffered a dislocated knee yeah a torn acl and maybe some other ligaments um uh damage it was it is it's tough seeing that so obviously you know and uh mike mcdaniel is telling the story of how he's you know he's joking with some of the guys like guys you just make sure you get this win knowing because look You've been around this game enough.

You know when it's a serious injury.

Nobody had, the doctor doesn't have to tell you anything.

You don't have to hear around a report.

You've been around this game enough.

You see that, you know, yeah, he's not coming back.

Yeah, straight away.

I turned turned around and I was like,

come, come get him.

They got to put him in the air cast immediately.

Yeah.

So

you was with Gruden.

I think you were Gruden because he's like, hey, this, this guy, he saw you.

What has been the biggest difference between Gruden and Mike McDaniel?

Because they're both, this is basically the verbiage might be a little different, but this is the West Coast system.

Yeah, no, the similarities between the two, just coming from like the founding fathers, like Mike Shanahan and Gruden, like, it's kind of easy for me to pick up the concept.

Like there's different words, different nuances, but

they're both really like they're one of one individuals.

Like there's, I don't think I've ever met anybody with personalities like, like either one of them.

They got their own unique sense of humor.

But I mean, they love ball for real.

And they love giving, putting the guys in position to, you know, do something with their career, do something with their lives, you know, so they it's really fun energy to be around.

I feel like both of them got just a distinct energy.

I don't, I don't know, it's hard for you to say, but the word out is there have been reports that he was too lenient, and guys were coming late to practice, and guys were coming late to meetings, and guys were overweight.

What have you seen in your short time there that leads you to believe that you know what?

He's the guy that can get this fixed, he's the guy that can turn this around and get the dolphins going in the right direction.

I've seen a sense of urgency just since July from cleaning up, you know, like the fines fines that guys had from last year and just like all the little things.

It's just like, how the fuck are we doing this?

And thinking that we're going to win.

Like, I feel like he's put in his energy and used his words to be like, hey, like,

this has got to change.

And, you know, of course, it starts with me, but at the same time, it's like, it's really up to the guys in the locker room to police this.

And I feel like the captains have really, really gone out their way for sure to make sure things are different from that regard.

You know, and results on the field, sometimes it's like, okay, it may take a while to get things going.

Like, that's how the league goes.

It's just super super competitive.

But from the standpoint of little things like you just described, I haven't seen any of that this year.

And so it's like, all right, like once you have that out the way, like we can actually go somewhere.

Locker room controls the football team.

They police, they run.

You got to show me the team that has the strong locker room and I'll show you a team that consistently win.

You show me a team that the locker room and the guys don't hold the other guys accountable and I'll show you a team.

Just let me, you let me go.

You put me in any locker room for a week, and I don't know anything.

So, I'm going in there blind.

I'm just gonna happen to be in the locker room.

I'm just gonna be observing.

I'll tell you who's winning and who's losing.

Matter of fact, AD, since you came back, right, two years removed, obviously, you get an opportunity to come back, play for the Dolphins.

Obviously, you have your team goals.

From an individual standpoint, two years removed for the game of football.

What would be a successful season to you now that you've returned?

I think a successful year for me is, you know, really just kind of keeping the same mindset I had before.

It's like, I don't necessarily know if

it'll be 100 catches.

I don't know if it'll be the metrics that they once were five, six years ago, but just the same process of like, however many opportunities it is, like those opportunities are going to get maximized is how I kind of try to measure success.

Try to get away from like the stats and everything like that.

And really just kind of like being a leader, kind of being one of those guys like that Shannon was just discussing.

Like I'm the oldest guy on the team, I think, which is which is wild like

i just turned 33 uh september 13th

well that ain't bad that's young that's right so just kind of like embodying that presence too and just kind of like some of the that i've been through coming in going back like going from where i was in my career i can relate to where any of these dudes is at in a career from practice squad to getting cut to getting traded to on the rise like just kind of stepping up in my leadership abilities, I would say, as well.

Now that you're back in football, because when you stepped away from the game, you stepped into music.

Obviously, that's a passion of yours.

But now that you're back in football, have you put music on the back burner?

Is that something that you're going to pick back up once your football career is over?

Yeah, it's kind of on the back burner for now, for sure.

Like, I think I've written

one verse or two since July

and like a hook or two for a song, but like I haven't really been doing anything.

It's been focused on football for real.

Like I got a lot of songs.

Like I'll, I'll like tease some shit, like put some music behind some posts that I'll put out, but all those songs were recorded before I even got back out here.

So, and it'll be nice to take a break because I was going hard with it and creating in my time off.

And so I feel like it's a good flow for me to be back in ball.

And when it's time to pick the mic back up again, I feel like I'll be ready.

Well,

I mean, I haven't really heard a whole lot of rappers from Georgia Tech, but okay.

Hey,

I'm glad to do that.

You know, because

I guess it's a new thing, Daryl.

Hey, hey, we, we, we open to it.

Yeah.

Hey, you know, one of my hobbies and one of my passions is, you know, I write.

I've written for a few artists.

So at any point you pick that mic back up, let me know.

And I've written for Drake.

I've written for Nicki Minaj.

I've written for Lil Wayne.

You got real credits?

Oh, yeah, I got real credits.

If you ever, I wrote for Beyonce,

if you look at their credits on some of the songs that I've done, I'm in the credits.

Huh?

Your connection fucked up?

I'm going to show it to you.

I'm going to send it to you.

But yeah,

we get in the studio, do a little something, little du-o, little duet or something.

Say less, bro.

Hey, I need to know what's the best.

What's the best cigar lounge in

South Florida, bro?

I'm in like Fort Lauderdale area.

Hey, listen, we could go together.

Smoke on the water.

Smoke on the water.

Smoke on the water.

Right there, right off

Royal Palm Boulevard.

Yeah, or something.

No, Darren, I don't do nothing but smoke them

Daniel Marshalls.

Hey, send me my cigars, man.

Whoa, whoa, I'm talking to the gas.

This ain't got nothing to do with you, Ocho.

I'm telling the man what I smoke.

You don't even say

you don't even smoke.

Ocho.

Man.

You see, all I'm saying is that the Daniel Marshall, those are 24-carat.

You know,

I got a box of those.

Can you send me some cigars?

AD.

On Pembroke Pines, Pembroke Pines Boulevard, there's another cigar bar called Aficionados.

Them the two I go to is real nice.

I ain't smoking no 24-karat gold, but.

Yeah, you're the gold leaf.

You look gold.

Somebody, you know, Daniel Marshall, when you next time you go to the cigar bar, that they're going to be in the case.

You just can't go pull them because, you know,

they like 85 to 120 a stick, but you know.

Nah, uh, AD, don't listen to him.

Them sticks cost $2.89 a park.

Nah, we all bad.

Listen.

Yeah, they $289.

Oucho, why you mad?

Because I got a box of them.

Damn.

Did I see you a couple?

Hey, A D, them, them sticks were probably sent to him by accident.

They were probably for me.

You don't smoke cigars, huh?

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

We'll get, we'll get.

Darren, in 2020, you founded the Darren Waller Foundation with the mission to equip youth to avoid and overcome addiction to drugs and alcohol, support the youth and their family during the recovery and treatment.

a journey

i don't know how well our audience know but you were originally drafted by the Ravens.

I mean, a guy that's your size, six, five and a half, 255 pounds, can run like you can run.

You're a matchup problem.

No linebackers doing anything with you.

Safeties, they're just too small.

People are putting their best corner.

You beat Sauce for a touchdown.

You were getting, when you were at your prime, when you were with the Raiders,

I thought you were going to get my record that day, too.

I think you had like 15 catches for 200 yards.

I'm like, damn, he's going to get it.

To overcome what you overcame, when you were at your darkest, did you understand like, man, I'm throwing this great opportunity away?

Did you, did you understand when you're in it?

Do you understand or do you realize that you actually have an addiction?

Who told you you have an addiction?

When did you realize you had an addiction?

Yeah, that's a great question.

I feel like in the moment, I don't think you can,

I think you're too numb.

At least I was.

Like for me, like the the drinking and shit like that was to numb a lot of things I was feeling, thinking, experiencing.

So in those moments where, you know, a normal person would feel like, oh, fuck, like, I'm throwing this shit away.

Like, I don't have access to that feeling.

Like, it's all kind of shut off.

You know what I'm saying?

And I had guys like Ben Watson was with the Ravens when I was there, like right before I got suspended.

And he was like, if you could just like lock in, bro, like, you don't know where this shit could go.

Like, like a whole bunch of people just telling me that.

And I'm just like, I can't really receive it because I also don't really have that much confidence in myself.

So I realized I was addicted when uh because i odd in 2017 it was like a month before what would have been my third season and i was probably going to be a starting tight end in baltimore that year that was 2017.

and uh yeah i odd and then went to rehab a month later and i'm just sitting there listening to what everything they're saying i'm like damn like i definitely that's you 100 me and it's all throughout my family you know i'm saying like

Throughout like the generations of my family, it's kind of like impacted a lot of people.

So it's passed on to me.

And then being able to have the opportunity to to be like, all right, I could change the course of generations going forward for my family and also just, you know, be somebody that people can look to.

Cause like shit, I've been fucked up plenty of times, but they can still be successful at whatever they got going.

Yeah.

How old were you when you started drinking or you started dabbling with drugs?

Were you young or whether you got to college?

You started drinking, you know, college atmosphere.

Was it in high school?

I was pretty young.

I was like 15.

I got into like painkillers, like the hydrocodon, five milligrams, 10 milligrams first uh started smoking weed and drinking after that probably like junior year and uh was just kind of off from there it got real crazy through college and through my first couple years in the league and then so it's about like a 10 year run from like 15 to i got sober like a month for my 25th birthday

what

Would you want your what message would you like to share with the youth about what they can potentially overcome given you're

you're the best teacher because you've overcome something.

You know a lot of what these kids are dealing with.

You know a lot of the signs.

You know a lot of the symptoms.

You know a lot of, man, I'm all right.

No, you're not.

Because that seat that you're sitting in, I sat in that seat for about a decade.

Now I'm in this seat and I want to share with you the message of how you can beat this addiction.

The message for me is just like

there are so many different ways that we try to mask what we really feel in or who we really are.

We compare ourselves to so many different people there has to be some level of return to like authenticity find like a comfortability like a peacefulness and a joy and just being like exactly who you are because i feel like me this young kid i was like it all stemmed from the pain i felt from feeling like i was always like the odd man out or people thought i was too weird or i had big ears, big feet.

I was getting roasted or like it all started from all these, all these little things that I was like, man, I don't feel like I'm good enough.

And I want to turn to things that make me feel like I'm good enough or at least forget the fact that i'm not good enough and when really it's like there are people around you that are going through the same things we just all try to act like we don't have stuff going on in our lives so it's really just being yourself you're going to attract people to to you that love you for who you are and that will support you whatever you go through so i would just say you know there is really no peace no sobriety possible if you don't find ways to really deal with the pain and the trauma that happened earlier in your life or whenever in your life and just yeah finding peace with just being who you are whether people like it or not

i like that happiness happiness is you know people say i found happiness but happiness is something that you create peace is something that you create how long did it take you to get to that point that you says i'm at peace with darren i'm happy with that um it's been elusive man to be honest like i think my journey with like sobriety and just kind of seeing life differently started like 2017.

And I feel like there were a couple of years in there where I was like, okay, like I'm moving in the right direction.

And then there were some years in there where I'm like, I don't know.

I feel like I'm kind of moving away.

Like I'm still sober, but there's still like

still something that's left blocking a little bit

from, you know, say 21 to 23.

And then it's like, since retiring, it's opened up nothing but a path for me to.

just go as deep as possible with those kind of things and really just look at myself in the mirror.

And now I feel like it's like a lot more attainable.

I feel like the happiness is fleeting, but it's like I'm a lot more content with my life.

Like I don't need, I can step in the football and just be like, I'm going to just, I want to have this experience.

This is what I want to do.

I don't need it to do something for me, to validate me to do X, Y, and Z.

It's just like, this is the way I'm choosing to live my life.

And

I'm going to enjoy this shit.

And that's dope, man.

The funny thing about it, too, I'm really glad.

I mean, I'm really glad you're able to be authentic and raw in answering these questions.

The questions are phenomenal, too, because there are people that are probably in the chat.

There are people that are going to see this, and people that are dealing with the same issues you are, and not knowing how to navigate those situations or how to deal with it.

And you being a testimony and being someone that has had issues, but gotten the help.

And look where you are now.

That, I mean, dude, that's an amazing story.

And kudos to you for having, for one, the discipline to do it and stick to it and be able to live out your childhood dream again.

Because most times people don't get a second chance.

Appreciate that, man.

Darren, we're going to get you out of here on this one.

Now that you're back, have you put a timetable or time limit on how long you want to play?

Or are you taking it year by year?

Or you're like, you know what?

I really like to get two or three more in.

Or you're saying, you know what?

All I know is that I'm going to play 2025.

And I worry about 2026 and 2026 and beyond once that time arrives.

But right now, I'm in the here, I'm in the now, and that's all I can do.

I think you really just said it right there, man, because it's like after experiences like Monday, because I came in.

Like I said, I got, I got hurt my first co-week of training.

I'm like, damn, bro, are we on this shit again?

Like, this is still, this shit's still happening.

And so I'm like, there's doubt, there's fear.

Like, did I even make the right decision coming back?

But then having like a night like Monday, it's like, well, wait, like.

This feels like there's still like plenty left here.

Maybe there is something more done in the future.

But it's like, I I feel like, like you just said, playing this season, giving this season my all, and then re-evaluating from there.

And so I'm open to everything.

I don't want to say I'm done.

This is just one chapter because, you know, I don't really know.

Every time I thought I've had my life figured out in which direction it should go, I feel like God has flipped the script and been like, nope, we're going this way now.

Cause I, I was, I was, I was set on not playing football ever again, but it's like, Here I am.

So I'm trying to just remain open.

Well, Darren, thanks for joining us tonight, man.

Congratulations on all the success.

Everything that you've overcome lets us know that there is a God and that anything is possible.

Stay healthy.

And after the season, come back and talk to us.

Man, appreciate y'all always.

Appreciate you coming on, man.

Darren Waller, tight end for the Miami Dolphins.

To go through what he's gone through, Ocho, to be able to overcome because, you know, hey.

Like you said, he was about to start in Baltimore

and ended up getting suspended a couple of times.

And they moved on.

And now he ends up with the Raiders.

And he's a Pro Bowl player.

I mean, he's at the top.

He's one of those top players.

And then, you know, all of a sudden, abruptly, you know, he steps away from the game.

And for two years, he's like, and he's like, you know what?

I want to come back.

And kudos to the Dolphins for giving the opportunity.

Now, I don't know if there were other teams out there willing to give him an opportunity, but I know the Dolphins was one because he's playing with the Dolphins.

And so it's always great when you, you know,

you're here, you're down here and then you're back up here again and so like you said i he doesn't know if he'll ever be what he once was in his prime but for him to come back and to show that there's a possibility because ocho you and i talk about it all the time it's easier to get into the league oh yeah than get out and try to get your butt back in back in yeah but listen if you if you're really good and you leave a good impression before you leave the chances you coming back they pretty good you need a mismatch nightmare you think about

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Remember when Jimmy Graham's with the Saints?

Yep.

You see what he looked like?

Yep.

Gronk.

I'm not saying he's gronk.

I'm not saying he's Jimmy Graham, but I'm just saying that he's a mismatched nightmare.

Yes.

He can go out.

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Part they're out wide and go against receivers.

I mean, just he's really good.

And he got a small sample size of that when they played Monday night.

Yep.

Ocho, let's pivot back to the Cleveland Browns situation with Dylan Gabriel being named starter.

Should we be surprised that he was named starter?

No, I mean, he was the number two.

It shouldn't be a surprise at all.

It shouldn't be a surprise at all.

He was, he, listen, when it fancy came out before the season started and said that Dylan Gabriel will be the number two quarterback.

I mean, that's what it is.

That's what it is.

So we knew that at whatever point things weren't going well for Flacco, Dylan Gabriel would be the next man up.

Now, if things don't go well with Dylan Gabriel, I don't know what's going to happen from that point on.

That, that, see, that's where I was going next.

Oh, you were.

You're right, Ocho, because it was reported that Gabriel was getting first-team reps along with Flacco at its earliest training camp.

So he was getting first-team reps.

Flacco was getting first-team reps.

And who was the other quarterback?

Damn.

From the Steelers.

Kenny Pickett.

Yeah, Kenny Pickett.

Yeah, Pickett.

So those guys were getting first-team reps.

Shadua wasn't getting those reps.

So I agree.

We shouldn't be surprised.

The question that I have for you, if gabriel struggles now what do we do do they go back to flacco or they say oh do they give shadur an opportunity you know what i'm not sure and and knowing knowing the game understanding the business and knowing how the business works i think they will probably go back to flacco I think they will go back to Flacco.

And if things don't work out again and Flacco still not successful when he returns back to the field, then I think Shadura will get his shot somewhere on the back half of the season.

Ocho, let me ask you a question.

Talk to me.

If

you think Shadur knew what he knew now, you think he goes back to Colorado for his last year?

If he knew what he knew now, if he knows what he knows now?

Hindsight, yeah.

Probably so.

Probably so.

I think so, too.

I would think so.

But there's no possible way.

There's no possible way.

Ocho, there's not a scenario that anybody thought, okay, let's just say, Ocho, he's not the first pick.

He's not a top five.

He's not a top 10.

Let's just say, you know what, Ocho, because you and I having this conversation, let's just say that he's not a first-round pick.

32 players going to be selected in the first round.

Ain't no way

he thought he'd be a fifth-round draft pick.

No, absolutely not.

Absolutely not.

Not at all.

And some people listen to some people to say, well, he wasn't that good.

He was mid.

Listen, he can play the quarterback position.

He can play the quarterback position.

He does, he does.

He's not a dual threat, but what he lacks in his ability to

run the ball, he makes up in other areas.

He has other intangibles that makes him a quality quarterback where he should get an opportunity to start on an NFL team.

And until he gets the opportunity to prove he can do just that, we're going to have to wait and see.

He should apply

for a hardship for COVID.

Say, Say, I want to go back and play.

You're right.

I mean, there's really like no way to really know.

I mean, hell, I didn't, somebody would have told me I was going to be a self-round draft pick.

I said, you out your damn mind.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was the number, I was the number one rated,

one of the number one rated players

below Division I.

So I'm like, okay, I ain't going to go in the first round.

But somebody tell me I'm not going to be a top three, third round, a top three round pick, man.

Please.

Let me tell you something, huh?

You've been around a long time.

I've been around long enough to understand that business and how that business works.

Anything they don't like about you before you get there, they will find a way to humble you.

They will find a way to humble you.

And when your opportunity does present itself, boy, you got to knock that goddamn door down and close it behind you.

Because you're not going to get very many opportunities,

especially if they don't like you.

I would have, yeah, I would have,

I agree with you, Ocho, because my brother used to tell me all the time, I said, man, you know, I've been training camp, Ocho,

and I'll be like, man, I ain't getting no ref today.

Or I'd be in practice, you know, once I made a team.

He said, don't worry about it.

He said, one day, John Elwy is going to call on you.

He said, just make sure when he call your number.

Better be ready.

Got to be ready.

And I think the thing that really helped me, Ocho, is that he told me, he said, T,

you could be good in this league.

He said, there ain't a whole lot of, there ain't a whole lot of can do what you do now.

He said, just keep working, just keep working hard.

I don't know why that man took a liking to me.

I don't, Ocho.

I don't know why.

Right.

But I mean, for him and Gary Kubiak, Kubiak, Kool was the backup when I was in Denver when I first got there in 1991.

Hey, Cool used to pull me to the side.

Now, that's when you know somebody really take a liking to you.

He pulled me to the side.

He said, he would show me.

He's like, hey, now you're going to be in here on this, this, and this.

You know what you got?

Now, they're going to be in this coverage.

You run this.

You're going to be on that coverage.

You run that.

Oh, Joe, I'd be out there doing like I'm doing.

I'd be like, okay, good job.

Good job, Sharp.

Hey, you know what else?

You know what else?

They'd be like, oh, Ocho, they'd be like, good job, Sharp.

That's what I'm talking about.

That's what I'm talking about.

Getting your playbook.

Man, cool.

Told me everything.

Hey, you know what else?

When I think about it, when I think about some of the things the fancy said, when I think about some of the things the owner said, they bait me too a little bit too, um they bait me.

When you go to the army, when you go to the marines, when you go to the navy, any of those places where it's a structured environment, what's the one thing they try to do to make sure to see if you wet, if you're ready or you're worthy.

Or they're going to try to break you down.

Trying to break you.

They're trying to break him.

He cannot break.

You cannot fold.

You cannot lash out.

No, hell no.

I don't come this far.

Hell no.

You can't do none of that.

You got to stay the course.

You got to stay the course and focus on the end goal and prepare for that opportunity because it's going to come.

Yeah.

It's definitely going to come.

Man, Ocho, look, I'm going to share this story with you.

I only shared it one time, and I shared it with when I spoke at Coach Reeves' funeral.

I was the only,

his wife called me.

and asked, would I speak?

Now, you got to realize all the people that he played with, Coach reese played in the league he played under coach landry all the coaches he coached he was off his coordinator with the cowboys yeah he was the head coach of the broncos he was the head coach of the giants he was the head coach of the uh the falcons

he asked me to they she asked me to speak i didn't know

until like she told me

but

um

She's like, Shannon, it would be a huge honor if you were to speak at Dan.

I was like, I'm like, are you sure?

I was like, she's like, I'm sure.

She said, Shannon, you were always his favorite.

He said, you worked so hard.

He said he saw

how you came in and what you worked and turned yourself into.

He was just so proud.

So I'm sure he would be honored if you spoke.

Oh, Joe, every Sunday, Coach Reeves would ask seven or eight of us what we had on a certain play.

God God on his truth.

Every time he would call on me,

he would already have saw me.

He would tell me he would step out in the hall.

He would tell me, I'm going to ask you this.

This is what you need to say.

Say it like this.

And I'm like,

why he?

He ain't doing that for nobody else.

Right.

He's not.

That's why it hurt me so bad, Ocho, when he got fired

i said had i became because he got fired the year i made my first pro bowl i led the team in receiving right

that it hurt me so bad i said if i had only become

what i later became in 93 through 98 right ain't no way coach reeves get fired

So that's why it hurt me because he invested so much in me.

He believed in me.

He did.

He drafted me.

Somehow he lost his damn mind and forgot to to cut me.

And for him, John, and Coobe, and Coach Reeve to take that kind of time, I promise you,

I don't know.

You don't quote me on this.

It's hard for me to believe that a head coach is taking that kind of interest in a seventh round draft pick in today's game.

It's hard for me to believe John Elway, the number one pick in the 1983 draft.

He was a pro bowler, he was an all-pro.

He was an MVP, had gone to three Super Bowls, is taking taking that kind of liking in a seventh round draft pick.

Gary Kubiak, who was the backup, is taking that kind of liking.

Ocho, I ain't have no choice.

Yeah.

It's like my grandmother, when she put, when she took my mom's three in after raising hers,

I have no choice, Ocho.

How could I let these people down that had invested so much in me, that believed in me?

How?

I couldn't.

Man, I got in a playbook.

Hey, every night I'm going home.

I say, I'm going to know

everything.

everything.

It became second nature.

It became, I knew, I knew what I had to do.

It's hard to, because, check this out, don't you?

Yeah,

the tight end is normally

Y.

Yeah.

In Dan's offense, he's X.

The X.

Yes, because Coach Landry was a defensive coordinator.

So everything is backwards.

135 is to the right.

2468 is to the left.

Okay.

Yes.

So if it's backwards, that's not Z.

That's a wing.

Okay.

X, Y.

Wing three, Y dig.

Tight end is the X.

Oh, Joe.

Tight end been Y his whole life.

2468 been to the right your whole life.

1357 is to the left.

Oh, Cho.

Now you got verbiage.

Oh, Joe.

I came from the round tree.

Yeah.

654.

Same.

737.

Man, what you mean?

52 double slanting special.

Huh?

What I got?

52.

I ain't never heard nothing like that.

Right.

Oh, man.

Geez.

My mind was spinning.

But him, some good days, boy.

Ocho, I just want to know what is it going to take?

What do you believe it will take for Shadur to get an opportunity to start this season?

Because this is, because if he doesn't start this season, Ocho, the whole purpose of him not going to Baltimore, and it's reported that there were another team, the Eagles, also thought about selecting him.

He said, no, I don't want to play behind her.

I don't want to.

It wasn't that he didn't want to play behind guys like that, but you're talking about a guy like Jalen Hurst is very doable.

He doesn't miss time.

Lamar.

You're not seeing the field, huh?

You're not seeing the field at all places.

Now he's got the opportunity to play.

What happens if he doesn't see the field this year for Cleveland?

Hey,

that's one I don't know.

And that's I'm not understanding.

But if he doesn't see the field this year for Cleveland,

being that

they have shortcomings with Flacco and they have shortcomings with Dylan Gabriel, then that's malpractice on ownership.

It might get to a point where you have no choice but to put him in there.

Because not only are the team going to call for him, the fans and the media are going to call for him as well.

I definitely think the fans are going to be calling for it if Gabriel doesn't play well.

I mean, look, just don't turn the ball over.

Just don't just keep the defense off the field for damn for 35, 40 minutes.

I'm not asking you to be a world beater,

but if you can give your defense, if you can score enough and keep your defense off the field

where they're not playing 35, 40 minutes,

you're going to have a chance.

You're going to have a chance.

The defense is plenty good enough, but not if you wear them down.