Nightcap Hour 1: Day 1 of March Madness, Penny Hardaway joins the show, & Puka has LeBron as his GOAT

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Save $80 with code Space 80 at Talkspace.com. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1.
Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.
I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.
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Y'all know me, your favorite aunt, Shannon Sharp, number 85, a route runner extraordinaire, a bingo, ring of fame, a pro bowler, an all pro. That's Chad Ochocinco Johnson.
Thank you guys for joining us. Thank you guys for your continued support and loyalty.
Please make sure you check out Shea by LaPortier. We do have it in stock.
And if you can't find it in a city or a state near you, order it online. We'll ship it directly to your door.
Please drink responsibly and please stay safe. Thank you for everyone that showed up in Charleston today.
Hey, both Total Wines sold out of products. You guys went, they sold out of one store, came to the other store, came out.
Unfortunately, I had to leave as they were bringing more in. So hopefully I'll get a chance to spend the block and get back over there and see you guys again.
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We got a couple of special guests lined up for you. We got one cent.
That is Anthony Penny Hardaway, and y'all know the mayor of Houston, Bun B, joins us a little later in the show. But Ocho, we're going to get into March Madness.
I'm going to show you this a little later. Day one of March Madness in the books.
Hey, got an upset already, Ocho. The biggest upset of the tournament thus far, McNeese, number 12, McNeese State, over number five, Clemson, 69-67.
McNeese became the 47th, number 12 seed to win a first-round game since 1979 and in the process won his first NCAA tournament game in school history. The performance comes in wake of coach Will Wade's agreement.
He's leaving McNeese at the end of the tourney run to become the head coach of the Wolfpack of NC State. But Wade's transparency with his players and the mission that he had contact with NC State did not become a distraction.
He said, Ocho, do you think him leaving propelled his team to spring this upset? I think maybe. Maybe.
Maybe so. But listen, you know when it comes to basketball, it's one game.
It's not a seven game series. It not a five or six-game series.
You go out there and what team shows up that specific day? Your ranking don't matter. It don't matter what you've done during the regular season.
Once it comes to March Madness, you got one shot. One shot to get it right.
And they got it right. Maybe there might have been some type of motivation behind Coach, them knowing Coach is leaving, and you want to send him out the right way.
And if this is any testament to that, kudos to them. Yeah, they play really well.
Ocho, the thing is, is that there's a difference between truth and transparency. Talk to me.
You see, the difference, see, truth is, you ask me a question, I tell you the truth. Transparency is you telling me something that I didn't even ask you to tell me.
Oh, I ain't going to do that now, Ocho. Nah, don't you get that book.
Don't you get that book. Hold on, hold on.
Hold on. We just started the show.
Hey. Hey, I'm going to start.
No, I'm going to start. Ocho, we don't get into the show, Ocho.
No, yeah. I ain't going to get into the show.

You coming out with hot fire already.

Give me that.

Come on now.

Come on.

Don't do me like that.

Give me that one more time.

I got to write that down.

I'm telling you.

True.

That transparency line was unbelievable.

Truth is telling you.

You ask me a question.

I tell you the truth.

Yeah.

Transparency is telling you something you didn't even ask me.

I'm being transparent. You don't even know.
See, if you ask, if you tell me say we're shadow blah blah blah so forth so on yeah this is what i did but let me tell you something else that you didn't know that's being transparent and there's a difference between the two and so i think him even before right they found out he was like, look, guys, I've had contact.

There's a possibility I could be leaving you guys and going somewhere else.

And I think that plays a large part.

That's what transparency is.

People say transparent.

I want you to be transparent.

Now, I think that's a good definition of good understanding is telling someone something they didn't

even ask. Now you're being

transparent.

And so I think this definitely helped.

But like you said, Ocho, in a game

of this magnitude, when

one shot is, and that's one shining

moment,

I just got to be better than you for this

day. I got to be better.
I got to be a

better team. I just got to be better than you today.
Yeah, for two hours. That's it.
That's it. And they were.
But I think that's why people love March Madness so much, Ocho, because realistically. Yes, sir.
Anything can happen on that Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And people like that.
Because the underdog like, man, my team really got a chance to beat a Duke, to beat a North Carolina, to beat a Clemson, to beat a UCLA, or one of these blue blood programs, Kentucky, Kansas. My team, you, man, you know what? My team did that.
My team really truly have the chance to do that. So, go There's a reason they call it March and the last word is madness.
Because ain't no telling what's going to happen. Regardless of seating, regardless of the conference, regardless of how small your program may be.
All it takes is what team is showing up that day for two hours. A team get a lot, I think for me, a team get hot.
And you know, team get hot. They make 10, 11, 12 threes in a college game? That's huge.
They go on the run, all of a sudden they can't miss. We've seen it before.
We've seen Villanova pull the upset over Georgetown. We've seen NC State take down five slammer jammer in 1984.
No, that was 83. 83, excuse me, 83.
The Wolfpack took them down. Because in 84, Georgetown won.
Georgetown beat Houston that year. Because that was the year Akeem ended up turning pro.
But yeah, it was so... Oh, got another one, Ocho.
Drake is headed to the second round. The Bulldogs just upset.
Missouri, 67-57. Golly.
That's a number 11. Took down a number six.
Earlier, we had a a number 11 took down a number 6 earlier we had a number 12 took down a number 5 I think the thing is we're waiting for that we're waiting for that 116-215-314 because like and the note said earlier 47 times of 12 if taken down number 5 so we've gotten kind of like we expect we expect 112 to take down a five seed in the first round. I mean, we go into the thing.
I mean, so when we get this, even though it is an upset because you're ranked five, the other team is ranked 12, 11 versus a six, we're expecting this now because we've seen it happen so much over the years. So we're not nearly as shocked.
But now when we get a 116, we get a 215, we get a 314, now we're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's really going on? Really going on. But who upsets early? I wonder how many perfect brackets that we still have.
Listen, honestly, you would have to make multiple brackets. Yeah, for sure.
Make multiple brackets with multiple scenarios for your bracket to be right. There's no way in hell people are guessing the bracket on one shot with some of the upsets and getting it right.
Because if you are and if you're able to do it and you're out there and your bracket is still intact today, you need to give me the numbers to make a million in the lotto. And Powerball?

And pick five.

Please, please

do. I mean, the first

round is really not that hard because I think

Warren Buffett had a thing

that if you compete a perfect

bracket and pick the national

champ, you'll get a billion dollars.

Well, that ain't gonna happen.

You've got a better chance of winning the lottery

than picking a perfect bracket all the way

through and getting the national champion right.

You've got a better chance.

I mean, think about it, Ocho. Everything around

from 64 to 32

to 16 to 8 to 4

and to get it.

Listen, that ain't happening.

You get that right, that ain't none but God's grace

and fable.

Well, you better let God pick it then. You better not pick it.
You better let him pick it. You better let him fill out your bracket.
You better let him fill out your bracket. Ocho, the number eight, Gonzaga.
The Zags beat number nine, Georgia Bulldogs, 89-68. The Zags look to be drastically underseeded as the number eight made easy work over the Georgia Bulldogs.

Gonzaga has now played 26 straight NCAA tournament games.

Georgia was playing for the first time since 2015.

One team looked very, very comfortable on this stage.

The other team did not.

The Jags jumped out to a 27-3 lead and never looked back.

Georgia had 13 turnovers, shot

just 5 of 26 from the 3,

including back-to-back airballs at

one point in the first half. They trailed

by 25 points on

multiple occasions. Look, I think

didn't Gonzaga just play for the National Championship

a couple of years ago? And you know,

they have really good players. They had Jalen Suggs

come out of there, Timmy,

Chet Holgren. So they've had

Rui Hachimura. They've had some guys, some really good players come out of Gonzaga.
So I'm not surprised. I definitely would, even though they were a higher seed, I would have picked the Zags to beat the Bulldogs.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you've been there that many times.

I don't think anybody's

surprised that the Zags...

Probably the only people that

picked them were Bulldog

fans. On Saturday, get ready

to see how good the Zags are. They'll try to

beat the top-seeded Houston Cougars

to make their 10th straight Sweet

16. Hey, now that's going to be a good

one. Now that's going to be a good one.
We got to be able to handle that pressure. Drew Timmy.
That's who. Damn.
What, what, what, what? Number 10, Arkansas, Razorbacks. Took down the number 7, Kansas Jayhawks, 79-72, in a game of runs between two championship coaches.
Seven-seed Kansas escaped the win with eight ties and ten different lead changes. The number 10 Arkansas Razorback used a 7-0 run to give Coach John Calipari a 79-72 victory over the Jayhawks and built himself in the Providence Road Island.
What'd you think? I mean, Coach K left. The criticisms became a little bit unbearable because, I don't know, bro, every year.
Think about all the first-round draft picks that you've had, all the number one overall draft picks that you've had, and you've only got one national championship to show. And Kentucky is about championships.
Coach Rupp, Tubby Smith, Rick Pitino, even Calum stack one, but you got number one overall pick Anthony Davis. You got Carl Anthony Towns.
You got Boogie Covey. You got number one John Wall.
You got Shea Gilder. You got Tyler Hero.
You got Jamal Murray. You got Devin Booker.
You got Vanderbilt. Come on, coach.
Wait, listen. Listen.
It's been a farm system for them. Yeah.
It's been a farm system for them. In and out with number one pick, some of the greatest, not only to play collegiate football, but some of the greatest also in the NBA.
But also, Uncle, you got to think about it. Think about who they were losing to.
They weren't losing to no scrubs. They also losing to other players that play well collectively as a group.
Now, usually we name and one-offs of great players that happen to be on a team. But you do realize that John Wall and Boogie Cousins was on the same team, right? Oh, yeah, they was on the same team.
But that's the key word that you heard me say. The team that they lost to played together collectively as a group, much better than him as a two-headed monster.
The team that the team that's beating them are sophomore juniors and seniors sprinkled in oh yeah they're just one and done and look yeah try to learn how to play together because all these guys murray was the guy uh book was the guy hero was the guy all these guys were the guy now you're asking all these five-star to come together and say, okay, bro,

for the common good, hey, this is what we need.

It's hard. It's really

hard because everybody has the same ambition

is to go play in the NBA.

But in order to get there, you're going to have to

have sacrifices. And it's hard.

I mean, you look at the teams that win, they got

juniors and seniors sprinkled in there. Look at

UConn.

They're not as deep as far as juniors and seniors sprinkled in there. Look at UConn.
Yeah. Yeah.
They're not as deep as far as juniors and seniors, and they're struggling. Obviously, they don't have the same talent.
You lose Clingon, then you lose Castle, you lose some of these other guys, and so you're going to struggle. But Coach Cal got it done in Arkansas's first win in the tournament as head coach of Arkansas.
We know he was at a lot of different places. Where was he at UMass? He ended up going to, he was an NBA.
Then he goes to Memphis. Then he goes to Kentucky.
Stayed in Kentucky for a number of years. He did win a national championship.
But he moves on and he gets his win there. The number one seeds, Auburn and Houston, both take care of business.
Auburn beat Alabama State 83-63. Auburn cruised behind 23 points from Miles Kelly and 14 points, 11 rebounds from player of the year candidate, Johnny Brome.
Setting up Saturday date with the number nine Creighton. Houston will play SIU Edwardsville.
Oh, they beat SIU Edwardsville, 78-40. Kevin Sampson was able to rest his starters for much of the second half after building a 28-point lead in the first half.
No starter played more than 23 minutes. Houston has been haunted by injuries in the NCAA tournament the last three years, but it cruised into the second round with his entire rotation intact.

So,

no surprise. I mean, I think some people,

a lot of people probably got Houston going

all the way through, at least advancing to the Elite

Eight, if not the Final Four.

Mm-hmm. Now listen,

who did you say Houston has coming up? They play

Zag on Saturday, right?

Yes.

Okay.

Listen, I ain't no telling

what's going to happen. It is one day

I'm going to go I ain't no telling what's gonna happen, huh? It's one day, but Houston is good. Houston is very, very good.
But again, it's called March Madness for a reason. Yeah.
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Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1. I just knew him as a kid.
Long, silent voices from his past came forward. And he was just staring at me.
And they had secrets of their own to share. Gilbert King, I'm the son of Jeremy Linscott.
I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it.
Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.
I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known. If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail.
I would have never existed. I never expected to find myself in this place.
Now, I need to tell you how I got here. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.
Bone Valley, Season 2. Jeremy.
Jeremy, I want to tell you something. Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley, Season 2, starting April 9th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
And to hear the entire new season ad-free with exclusive content starting April 9th, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

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The Boston Celtics has been sold for $6.1 billion, the highest price ever paid for a North American sports franchise in history. The Boston Celtics will have a new owner for the first time in more than two decades.
Bill Chisholm, the managing partner of Symphony Technology Group, STG, will buy the franchise at a price of $6.1 billion. The sale price is the largest for a North American franchise, topping the $6.05 billion the group led by Josh Harris paid for the Washington Commanders in 2023, and far surpassing the $4 billion that Phoenix Suns got from Matt Ishba when he brought the team the same year.
The Gross Bank Group brought the Boston Celtics, Ocho, for $360 million and now sells it for almost 20 times. In other words, what they call in business, 20x as much.
Yeah, yeah, most definitely. Oh, Joe.
You know, Bill Chisholm. Yeah.
If you had, let's say, $10 billion. Oh, talk to me.
You got $10 billion. Would you buy a sports franchise? Not only would I buy a sports franchise, I'm buying three sports franchises.
What? Which one? Where? I'm going to tell you where I'm going to go. First of all, you listening to me? I'm listening.
Stay with me now. If I had $10 billion, for one, I'm going to talk to Mike Brown and Katie and Duke Tobias.
That didn't happen. Go somewhere else.
That family mom and pop, they ain't selling that. They ain't selling that? Okay.
Boom. So if I can't get that, I'm going to Naples, Italy.
Okay. I'm going to buy Napoli.
You know my love, enthusiastic passion for the game of soccer and the beautiful games. Yes.
I want to own a franchise. I don't want to be a minority owner.
I'm talking about majority owner. I want to own Napoli.
Do everything in my power, bringing in all type of players, you know, because I'm going to have the money. I'm going to have the money to get the kind of team I want.
Bring in superstars. Second thing I'm going to do, I'm going to buy the Miami Heat.
You think, hold on, you just saw what the Celtics went for. How much money do you think you have to spend to get Napoli? Well, listen, to get Napoli, oh, that's a good one.
I'm not sure how much that franchise and the NTT will cost me. But again, I'm going to get the Miami Heat.
I'm going to have to remove Pat Riley because Pat Riley's way of doing things isn't conducive for business with today's era of players. And this is Miami.
This is Miami and players don't want to come play in Miami. Miami is a melting pot for ethnicities and culture.
How does nobody want to come play here? No superstars. Listen, we got Bam.
We got Tyler Harrow. You drafted him.
Again, I understand that, but we can't get any superstars here. We need one more.
Jimmy left. True.
So, boom, that's two. Napoli and the Miami Heat.
Now, I'm not sure how much I'm going gonna have Left over Because I don't know How much Napoli Would cost me Chad you would probably Know better than I can Because you can do Your homework for me Real quick While I'll be talking About it And the rest of that I'm gonna sit on And I'm gonna open Up a cigar lounge Oh my goodness That's it 980 million So you gotta So basically They're gonna probably Up charge So 10% So they're. 980 million.
So you got, so you got,

so basically they go,

they go probably up charge.

So 10%. So they're going to charge you a billion.

So you get a charge.

They're going to charge you a billion 1.1.

Yeah.

Okay.

So now you got 8.9.

Okay.

Yeah.

NFL.

You want to get an NFL team.

I mean,

you told,

you told me I can't,

you can't,

what about the Dolphins?

You think Stephen,

Stephen Ross will send me the Dolphins?

He might,

he might be willing to say you a majority share. How much we talk about with a majority share of the Dolphins? You think Stephen Ross will sell me the Dolphins? He might be willing to sell you a majority share.
How much we talk about with a majority share of the Dolphins? What you think? Probably somewhere between two and a half and three and a half. Oh, that's done.
That's done. That is done.
And listen, I'm manifesting this.

I'm manifesting this.

I hope from my mouth to God's ears.

Maybe it can happen.

Maybe it won't.

Let me dream big.

I can dream big.

If I shoot for the moon and I fall short,

ain't no telling what's going to happen.

Normally, Ocho,

if like a family-owned business,

there need to be internal chaos right we saw that with the Bolings they ended up selling the franchise but if there's not chaos like I don't believe the Cowboys will ever go for sale Jerry Jones gonna have that in his trust that the Cowboys are never to be sold. No matter what.
Once he's gone, I mean, hey, I'll be just saying. But like Mike Brown, his dad started that franchise after he got out of the Cleveland.
Because that's where the Browns get their name from. And now he went to Cleveland.
Art Modell fired him and so forth and so on.. Modell bought the team and then he started the Bengals me personally on the show I don't believe they'll sell it nah they wouldn't but it's just a thought listen where I was drafted where I created I left my footprint my stamp and just knowing that I could just be an owner of the place where I played at.
Maybe they tell you a minority share. Maybe they sell you 10, 20%.
Because it's just hard for me to see. Even though I think she just passed Virginia McCaskey, who's the daughter of George Hallis, who founded the Bears.
They've only had one owner, the Steelers and the Roonies. The Steelers have owned since 1933.
Now, there was one year, I think, the McClatchy's owned it, and they ended up getting it back. So the Roonies have been, so basically since 1933.
Okay, you got the Maras and the Tish's. They co-owned the Giants.
Now, it's looked like they're willing to sell a minority state, but no controlling aspects. So basically, you know, you're going to get some money, but you don't get no say in the day-to-day operations or coaching and hiring and firing.
Things like that. So I'm looking at team...
Go ahead. I like that.
I don't need no say in day-to-day operations.

I want to be in the war room.

I want to be in the war room.

Listen, also, I have an eye for talent.

I have an eye for talent.

I know what things need to look like.

Listen, I just want to give my suggestions.

Okay, I want to put on my suit and tie.

I want to have my Bengals pin.

I want to be on the golf court with Mike Brown when we go to training camp.

We're watching the players.

You know? What you call it? What you call it? At the owner's meeting? Yeah. Owner's meeting.
I'm at the owner's meeting. You know? Nice.
In my suit and my tie. What else? NFL Combine.
Me and Duke Tobin. Yeah.
I'm sitting there with my pen and pad. You know? I got my stopwatch.
Owners don't be stopwatch with everybody. I mean, most of the only owners there is Jerry.
And I don't even know that Jerry showed up this year. Did Jerry go to the combine this year? Normally, the owners don't go.
They send the general manager. They send everybody, you know, general managers, the scout personnel, things of that nature.
But that's me. I want to be hands-on.
I want to be hands-on. If I get any type of minority share of the Bengals, you know, God willing, if God wants to bless me with some type of fortune that comes out of nowhere, but listen, I know Mike Brown, KD, Troy, if this happens, please allow me to put in, you know, and be a part of where it all started.
I think that would be a great thing. The fans would love that.
Yeah. Huh? Can you imagine me being minority owner of the Bengals, also owning Napoli? Takes a lot, bro.
It takes a lot of brand. And then having some peace of the mind and heat, too? Mm-hmm.
Hey, and you know what the good thing about it is? What's that? Someone like me, if I was able to attain that type of wealth, I'm one of the few people in the world that wouldn't change. Wouldn't change a thing.
I'd still be the same old Ocho. You need to find me.
I'm at McDonald's. You want to find me? You can find me at the Cuban spot.
You know, just doing the same thing I always do. I like that.
Yeah. I like that.
From my mouth to God's ears. You might better hope maybe buy the Vegas franchise for an NBA team or hope they get another team, you know, have somebody want to start another franchise.
But it's hard. Right.
You're more apt to get somebody to move than they make an odd number, 33. Because you got 32 teams and you got 8-14 divisions.
So that seems to be, NFL kind of seems to be set. It looks like, if anything, the NBA will add two franchises.
One in Vegas, and it seems like Seattle is kind of the favorite since they lost to Superstarics, and you got Vegas. They got a football team, they got a soccer team, excuse me excuse me.
They got a hockey team. Baseball is coming in a couple of years.
They got a WNBA squad. So they'll have the four major sports.
They'll now get a basketball team. And it looks like that thing will go for five, six billion dollars.
Woo. Yeah.
Hey guys. I got Coach on the way.
Can y'all hear me? Yeah. We got you, Coach.
You got us? Yeah, I got you. Yep, I got coach on the way can y'all hear me we got you coach you got us I got y'all he's about to jump on what's your name Kirk I fucking love you I love you appreciate Guys, we're getting ready to get joined by had injuries, not robbed him.
He was one of the great players in NBA history. He's well on his way to being the guy that talked about he was the second coming of Magic Johnson.
A big point guard not only could score, but he could facilitate. Here he is, one cent himself, Mr.
Penny Hardaway.

Penny, you got us?

Yes, Kirk's trying to get it right, my man.

Kirk was just on.

There it is.

What's up?

What's up?

What's up?

Man, we good.

We good.

What's up with y'all, man?

Hey, you still owe me a one-on-one, man.

What's good?

Hey, Ocho, you can get that right now. Okay, let me know.
Hey, listen, I'm going to tell you what I'm going to do for you. I'm going to tell you what I'm going to do.
I'm going to spot you five. You hear me? I appreciate that.
Yeah. I'm going to take those five.
Penny was a four-time All-Star, three-time All-NBA selection, and he's the head coach of the Memphis Tigers. Penny, you match up tomorrow against CSU, Colorado State.
You feel

comfortable with what you've been able to, your team

going into this game because, you know, it's one and

done now, Penny. It ain't no, hey,

we get ready, hey, we got to go

back to work the next day. You lose

this game, your season's over.

Yeah, we understand the magnitude of this,

man, but this is what you want when you, you know,

this is what you live for. When you're

an athlete, you live for these days, so we understand the magnitude of what's going on. We understand that they're a really good team.
But we are also. At the end of the day, we've got to come and compete.
They have a great offense, and they play physical on defense. All of that goes along with March Madness, man.
We're ready for it. Yeah.
Hey, I'm going to talk about your NBA career real quick.

Looking back at your NBA days, what are some moments on the court that still inspire your approach to the game today as a coach?

Looking back at my game and how it inspired me is, I'm sorry, I can say that again.

Yeah, looking back at your NBA days, what are some moments on the court back then that inspired your approach to the game as a coach out there in Memphis? Well, it's just kill mode. For me, everything I did on the court was kill mode.
So I coached the same way. I put that battery in the back of my guys' back and I'm their biggest fans.
I push them out there and give them the confidence and say, hey man, be in kill mode and attack mode the entire game. Y'all both were the same way, man.
You just gotta... When y'all were on the field and I was on the court, every position was to kill the dude that was in front of me.
You're right. Yes, sir.
Let me ask you this, Penny, because I ask a lot of great players, you know, had Isaiah on and I have Coach Prime, who's a regular contributor. Penny, how do you do it when you're such a great player and the game seemingly came easy to you, even though you weren't.
You could see things before they develop. How do you have the patience to realize that, you know what, these guys are probably not going to be Penny Hardaway.
How do you have the patience? Because you tell a kid something and then he eff it up. You go over this in practice and he eff it up.
You do it in film study and you're like, son, we went over this. How do you have the patience to do what you do, Penny? Man, it's just one of those situations that we say back home was already understood, doesn't have to be explained.
I understand that they won't be on the level mentally as me, so it doesn't have to be explained. So what I do is I put them in positions to win offensively, and I put them in positions to win as a group defensively.
So it's all about team and then their individual gifts that they have.

I put them in those positions to be great.

And that's the best thing to do.

For me, I know when I played, I was God gifted.

I could play all over the court.

The coaches gave me the ball.

But this guy might need a spot up.

He might need a pin down.

He might need to play out of clothes.

This guy might need an ISO.

So to me, the gift that God gave me was realizing the strengths and putting those guys in their strengths the entire game. And then that patience comes along with that because I'm putting them in a position to win.
See, I like that. Did you hear what he just said? Understanding your players' weaknesses and your strengths.
Now, I'm not sure if it's easy to do as a basketball coach, but I wish from a football standpoint, especially at the highest level, if players or not players, if coaches, offensive coordinators understood what their players did well, I think it would make things much easier, you know, being able to manipulate what you like to do based on your player's strengths. So everyone could play.
So offensively, everything could be a little bit better. I love that mentality as a coach.
Yeah, for sure, man. You know, because all these scouting reports are going to put them in their weaknesses, so we got to figure out a way to escape those weaknesses and put them in their strengths.
Oh, I like that. The NIL or whatever the case may be, actives or whatever the case may be, it's made it a lot more difficult because, Penny, you can't get on a coach and coach a kid like they coach

you or like you would want to coach

because if you get too hard on them, Penny, they're going to jump

in the portal on you. Penny, how

do you make sure you're trying to make a kid

understand or get a kid to understand

son, I'm trying to put you in the best

position that I possibly can

to help you succeed

without them taking offense to it

and going somewhere like, well, hey, I'm not getting the minutes that I need. I'm going here.
Or somebody coming in and saying, son, hey, I see you and I can give you $250,000. I can give you $300,000.
How do you deal with that now, Penny? Because it's a lot different than when you played. I think that, you know, what I try to do is make it a partnership and not be all 100% about me.
And when I give the guys the money they come in as a basketball player i'm going to try to make you as comfortable as possible but then you got to give me something as well you know the work coaches to play for are the coaches that all right they're going to come in and change everything that you've ever done in your life and make you somebody that they didn't recruit or somebody that they didn't get out of free agency right so i'm not that coach when i get you and come and get Shannon Sharp and Ojo, I know who y'all are already. I'm going to put you in this situation and we're going to have a partnership.
It ain't going to just be all about me. And when you do that and you stand on the truth with everything that you, that you tell this young man, then they respect that man.
And the respect factor goes a long way. You know, when you respect your coach, you're going to run through a wall.
You don't want no butthole coach. You don't want no coach that's going to be all about being anal all the time, being negative all the time, and not really trying to see your side of things because in today's game, you got to see the other kid.
You got to see his side. In our era, the coach said what he said and we just did it.
That was it. Yeah.
Let me ask you this. What happens when a player comes to you and say coach i need more minutes i ain't getting the minutes or i'm gonna have to leave if he's not getting the minutes that means he doesn't deserve the minutes wow so i'll stand on the truth if you ain't getting the minutes you want that means you ain't stepping up to the plate and doing and putting the work in we need to work on the unrequired hours as well not just coming and think you're going to get shots up, but what are you doing to affect winning positively, not negatively? You're affecting the winning negatively because you're not coming to the gym, you're not watching film, you're not getting extra work and waiting on your moment and being ready, staying ready so you don't have to get ready.
A lot of these guys come to the gym during practice, they might make a couple bucks, but they don't sprint the lane. They don't get a stick hand up.
They don't take charges. They're not playing tough, multiple playing tough multiple efforts and that's what's gonna get you on the floor with me if you're not on the floor then you're not stepping up to the plate to what we're needing you to do and we give it to them in black and white we have non-negotiables these are non-negotiables if you're not doing these non-negotiables at a high level you can't get many minutes and if you're getting minutes it's gonna be small until you get to the level of where you can do those at a high level.
Now, with coaching that way, with that type of transparency, do the players react well like that? As opposed to, you know, you got to think about this today. Today's era, everybody is getting participation trophies.
They patting you on the back just for simply being a part of, even when you're not doing things the right way. Do they react well to that type of honesty and transparency? They react well to the truth because I love on them as well.
You know, I'm going to be getting in the gym with you. If you're ready to get in the gym, I'm ready.
If you're ready to watch film, I'm ready. I'll take them out to lunch.
Whatever it needs to happen for us to get that connection to understand, I need you, but you got to do your part too. You're just not going to be giving this.
And I know what Shannon said, that they'll transfer. But when you have that bond and you give them an opportunity, you meet me halfway, I'll meet you halfway and you stand on the truth.
That truth is everything. They respect that more.
I've had the guys respect that more. You've been in Memphis now for seven seasons.
At any point in time in your NBA playing career, did you ever think you'd be a college coach or any coach nah not really I was gonna be in TV I was gonna go to ESPN TNT and and do that thing I wasn't even thinking about coaching at all obviously I had the background being a point guard understanding the game and I've always loved teaching and developing players but never thought I was gonna be a college coach when you hey gocho. Now I'm going to say that I like the fact that you transitioned into coaching and obviously you might have wanted to do TV with as much knowledge of the game that you do have, playing it at a very high level, being very successful at it, and now coaching.
Like, are there any unexpected challenges you have being that you know the game so well at the collegiate level? Yeah, because you, you, you don't, they don't see it like you. You want them to see it like you, but it's also a challenge to me to, to develop and teach until I get it.
That's the, that's the drive for me, right? Right. That's the drive for me to get this young man when he comes in in June to be ready by the time the season starts.
And as the season goes on to keep teaching him and see him develop into a really good player. Because every kid that comes to my my team that's been a good player somewhere else, they become a great player here because I'm so invested in that.
In each young man on their skill set, their mental off the court thing.court things. It's a full-time job.

It's not just being a coach.

When you shot Blue Trips,

did you know much about Shaq?

And what did you expect

to come out of that movie?

Did you ever think like,

damn, man,

I sure wish I could play

with this fella.

You know,

we had an Olympic festival.

It was like North,

South, East, West teams

in the summertime.

It was held in Minnesota. And Shaq and I played on the same team for like a half a summer, maybe a month, month and a half or whatever.
And we got to know each other, you know, a little bit. But Blue Chips, I used that platform to show Shaq who I was.
The whole being about that movie was to get Shaq to understand that he needed me. I auditioned for him, not the movie.
Okay, okay. I like that.
I like that. I did that every day.
Have you ever thought about, man, if my knee, because I think you had a knee issue, you tried to come back, you end up having, did you end up having micro fracture on that knee? I did. The micro fracture took me out.
I had seven knee surgeries all together, but the last one micro fracture. That was knee.
Same knee, left knee. If I'm not mistaken, I think that's where they drain into the bone.
They drill into the bone. Try to let it dry.
Try to make it heal on its own. Some people have had micro fracture and it worked.
I think Rod Woodson, he had micro fracture. I think Bruce Smith had micro fracture and they've had eight, ten plus years of great play.
You, it kind of robbed you of your lift and now you got chronic knee problems. Did you ever think in your wildest dream when you first had this injury, that this was the beginning of the end? You know, I didn't, but the thing that was so crazy is was I was playing in Phoenix and we were playing the Lakers.
Okay. The Lakers won the championship in 02.
And I was playing with a torn meniscus. I tore my meniscus in the first round against San Antonio.
And I kept playing, and I got a quarter zone shot every other day just to make it through the playoffs. Okay.
Y'all know how that is, right? I do. And I was playing with a torn meniscus.
And Tim Duncan, who was much smarter than me, he set out that series and didn't play anymore and just kind of rested. And you know what happened after that, his greatness or whatever.
But it did rob me because after I got done with the Lakers series, I still was, I had spring, I had quickness. If you looked at that series, that was about 20 a game.
We took those guys to six games and obviously lost. After that, I didn't need the micro fracture.
I just needed that meniscus area to prepare. And, man, I got that micro fracture.
That took me out because I still had bouncing sprain. Even though I was feeling some pain, I still had my quickness.
I still had my power. After that micro fracture, man, my quad depleted, and I never got my quad strength back, like ever.
Yeah, that's the biggest thing, Penny, when you have those surgeries, is the surrounding muscles.

Is that to get that strength back.

And people realize that, oh, my knee feel good.

But if that quad, if that hamstring, if that calf, if those attached muscles,

if they're not, it's not going to fire and it's not going to be able to, it's your stability.

That's your stability.

To be able to be able to sustain that up down.

Because you're doing this every night.

Back then, Penny, y'all played 75, at least 75 games. It wasn't no low management where you take 15 games out, you missed 15, 20 games.
You missed 15, 20 games, you were injured. It wasn't no, oh, yeah, Penny got the night off because he doesn't play the back-to-back.
He's going to play three games in a week so we won't get Penny the next game off. There was none of that.
No, there was none of that at all. But the biggest thing about me, I was going to play for my fans.
I knew people would come to the game to see me, so I wasn't missing no games. Right.
I was really, really hurt. I like it.
I like it. I didn't ask all my good, juicy questions, but I'm just ready for this one-on-one.
That that's it. We can get that in.
You grew up in Memphis. You played at Memphis.
You coach at Memphis. Is there a scenario where you could see yourself leaving Memphis? Man, that'd be tough.
That would be tough. I mean, everybody know I bleed blue, man.
And it got kind of rocky last year, so I didn't know where it was going to go. But honestly, I want to win a championship for my city.
I really do. If something else comes about, we'll cross that road, but everybody that knows me knows that that blue is in my heart, man.
Tell a story how you got the name, because I think you told the name your grandma was calling you Pretty, and they thought you said Petty. So tell a story how you got the name.
I was living with my mother until I was five and then my mom left me with my grandmother. So when I moved to my mom's area of the neighborhood, she used to call me pretty.
And with her southern accent, it sounded like Penny. Honestly.
And one day somebody called my house and was like, can I speak to Penny? Because they thought she was saying Penny. And she was like, there's no Penny that lives here.
And I was like, grandmother, that's me. And that's how it just stuck from that point.
I just started letting everybody call me Penny. See, now y'all understand how Glorilla, how she sound.
She from the same. She from the same.
And I'm messing with my girl, Glow. Yeah, Glow.
You from the same, man, Penny. Penny, thank you for joining us, bro.
Good luck tomorrow night. Good luck throughout the tournament.
And when you cut down the same man Penny Penny thank you for joining us bro good luck good luck tomorrow night

good luck throughout

the tournament

and uh

when you cut down the dance

come back and join you

come back and join your boy

I will

and we're gonna get that

one on one outro

I got you baby man

I salute you baby

hey

hey one more thing

Penny before you go

I need them galaxy phone

pauses

I know you got a pair

what size

12

no 13

13

13

you got that coming

you got that coming

they're gonna be there

as soon as I get that home

I got them out

appreciate it Penny

There's a up here? What size? 12. No, 13.
13. 13.
13. You got that coming.

You got that coming. They're going to be there.
As soon as I get that home, I got them out.

Appreciate it, Penny.

Take care, bro. No doubt.
Alright.

Peace. Mr.
One sent himself. Penny Hardaway.

Great dude, man. Ocho.
I don't know

how many people remember

watching Penny play, but he was a

wither with the basketball. He was supposed to

be the next Magic Johnson. A guy

that was 6'7 1⁄2 that could

score. He could score the difference between he and Magic.

Thank you. watching Penny play, but he was a winner with the basketball.
He was supposed to be the next Magic Johnson, a guy that was 6'7 and a half. He could score the difference between he and Magic.
Magic couldn't score like Penny. Penny could really score the basketball.
And could play with his back, but he was a big guard like Magic. Magic 6'9", Penny 6'7".
We hadn't seen point guards like that, that could handle the ball. Handle the ball.
Handle it.

And then think about him and Shaq.

Him and Shaq. In the

pick and roll. The lob.
Penny

getting downhill. Can finish at the rim.

Everything. He had the mid

range. Had a nice

float game. And

that Andrew, like he said, he said he just needed

his meniscus cleaned up. They ended up doing micro-factor and he never recovered.
He never recovered, Ocho. God, man, I hate injuries, man.
And you know sometimes guys get surgery and then you're like, damn, guys have back surgery. Look at Gronk.
Gronk had a back surgery in college. Went on, had a Hall of Fame career.
Like I said, Rod had micro-factor. Bruce Smith, if I'm not mistaken, had micro-factor Bruce Smith if I'm not mistaken had micro-factor they played another eight, nine years Penny it was downhill after that go ahead Ocho yeah I think about some of the injuries some of our greats some of our greats me where they weren't able to finish their story Penny Hard Hardaway's, the Peter Ward's,

Brandon Roy,

Greg Oden,

they're with you guys.

Like so many dudes,

and I wish technology

was a little bit more advanced

when they were playing

so they could finish their careers

the way they should have

because injuries have robbed us

to some great stories.

Gale Fair.

Some great unfinished stories.

Because you know,

back then, Ocho,

they did that big surgery,

they split you,

you had everybody,

you remember,

I don't know. Injuries have robbed us to some great stories.
Some great unfinished stories. Because, you know, back then, Ocho, they did that big surgery.
They split you. I remember when I first got into the league.
The big scar. They had that big scar right down the middle, that big zipper.
Yeah. But now to take the incision is so small, they got the way they could.
They take part of your patella tendon and repair it. They do cadavers.
They do, man, technology, medical. Modern medicine has improved so much.
I mean, normally if you had an Achilles, that was a death sentence. You had an ACL, that was a death sentence.
Now, guys come back stronger, better than ever. Like, hold on.
Because look at Thomas Davis. Thomas Davis had three ACL surgeries.
He came back and played 15, 16 years. Went to the Pro Bowl with, I think, a first or second team all pro.
Man, it was, you know, when you look at it, Ojo, it's... But to watch him, because I'm old enough to remember, I remember him at Memphis.
I remember him going to Orlando because they made the swap. They traded Chris Webber because Orlando got back-to-back number one overall picks.
And they ended up trading Chris C. Webb.
He ends up going to, if I'm not mistaken, thank goodness, goes to Golden State. And then Orlando swaps out and they get Penny.
That thing was something of beauty. That was a thing of beauty.
What could have been? What could have been? We were getting where we couldn't pay the bill. PG&E asked customers about their biggest concerns so we could address them one by one.
That's terrifying. That's fair.
Joe, Regional Vice President, PG&E. We have to run the business in a way that keeps people safe, but it starts driving costs down.
I would love to see that. We're on our way.
I hope so. PG&E electricity rates are now lower than they were last year.
Hear what other customers have to say and what PG&E is doing about it at pge.com slash open dash lines. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1.
I just knew him as a kid. Long, silent voices from his past came forward.
And he was just staring at me. And they had secrets of their own to share.
Gilbert King, I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott. I was no longer just telling the story.
I was part of it. Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer.
He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.
If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed.
I never expected to find myself in this place. Now, I need to tell you how I got here.
At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Bone Valley, Season 2.
Jeremy. Jeremy, I want to tell you something.
Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley, Season 2, starting April 9th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad-free with exclusive content starting April 9th, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.
Oh, Joe, Hookah Nakua was asked who the GOAT is on the Monroe St. Brown podcast.
Oh, it's the St. Brown podcast, but let's take a listen to what he had to say.
Okay. So LeBron's a GOAT to you? Yeah.
So can you tell my brother why he's better than Kobe and Jordan? He's 6'8". Okay.
He's 260. That's fine.
He plays the one through five. He's not playing the five.
He's not guarding a center, but go ahead. He's gone to three different organizations at one.
Everywhere he goes, he's had a new coach that he's taken to the NBA finals. Coaches don't matter that much in basketball.
Keep going. Who is the only coach Michael Jordan won NBA championships with? Yeah, one coach.
Joe Jackson. Coaches don't matter.
He played with other guys. He wasn't only six years in 91 to 98 in the NBA, bro.
He played 15 years, bro. There's a point where he was getting bounced in the first round.
Right here in the finals. When he was 21 in college, LeBron was carrying his team to the NBA finals.
Year four, carrying Zagauskas to the NBA finals, bro. LeBron's better.
He has nothing to say.. This is for another time, bro.
He has nothing to say, bro. No conversations.
Jordan's the best. No, it's the best.
Anyway, we'll move on, bro. You can't talk basketball.
We're guys that don't know basketball. Hey, listen.
Listen, when it comes to stuff like that, when it comes to topics and in conversations about who the goal is in different sports, I think it also comes down to preference because then obviously you talk to people like you, Unk, who can get very detailed and bring up numbers and use statistics and opinions. Not opinions, but actually facts to support your claims on who the GOAT is.
Now, when you do that, obviously LeBron runs away with it. But then I hate the comparison.
And, you know, comparison is a thief of joy. Yes.
When you talk about your Kobe Bryant, you talk about your Michael Jordan, you talk about your LeBron James, we talk about some of the greatest to ever play the game. And at that point, it becomes preference regardless of what they've done, regards to accolades, regards to how many rings you have.
It comes down to preference. When people talk about Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi, you know, who's the best? It comes down to preference because you can nitpick and bring up numbers and bring up trophies and all this other stuff.
But when you look at the greatest and what they've been able to accomplish, and they're so far ahead of everybody else that played the sport. There've been thousands and thousands of basketball players.
There've been thousands and thousands of soccer players, but these two are the Mount Rushmore that have played the game in the history of the game in general. I mean, I just, I hate the comparison.
Yeah. You know, how about we just enjoy what they were during their time? That's too easy.
Yeah. Oh, Joe, details have emerged of T.
Higgins' deal with the Bengals. Nothing in 2025 is guaranteed.

However, a $20 million roster bonus is earned five days after Higgins put pen to paper. The only true full guarantee at signing is a $10 million 2026 offseason roster bonus.
The Bengals have a practical matter, a year-to-year option that can pay him $35.9 million for the 2025 if he dresses for every game and earns $2 million per game roster bonus. And they can move on before the 2026 base salary become fully guaranteed.
It's not guaranteed for injury. because the $10 million guaranteed 2026 roster bonus has offset language.

They likely owe him nothing if they were to cut him. injury because the $10 million guaranteed 20 to 20, 26 roster bonus has offset language.

They likely owe him nothing. If they were to cut him after one year,

since he likely make more elsewhere.

Yeah,

man,

listen,

one thing about it,

that language,

that language always gets tricky,

boy,

that language that they put in there,

it always get tricky.

And the way you just said it,

listen,

I'm,

I, I, oh man, I, I don't even know what to say. I don't even know what to say.
I'll help you out. He wanted to be there because this is a bulldog contract.
You know it. That's why you speechless.
Yeah, listen, man. He wanted to be there.
Yeah, listen, I'm happy to pay him a bill. I can't be mad at him, Mocho, because that's his decision.
He wanted to be there. He wanted to play with Joe.
He wanted to play alongside Chase. That's the only team.
That's the team that drafted him, and he felt some sort of loyalty. But everybody that heard what I just read, y'all know that contract is bulljive.
Yeah. But that's what he wanted.
So, Ocho, we can't That's not us. I don't know, I don't know who your attorney was, but my agent would have never let me sign this contract.
Oh, I had Drew. I had the shark.
I had Drew. I had Drew.
I had Drew. But listen, I'm going to be happy for him.
Regardless of what's in that language, the band is back together. Yeah.
I don't like the business side of things, huh? That's why I was so passionate about it from, you know, when we were talking about it, when I was on ESPN, when we on here, you know, we talking about it. I was upset.
I didn't like the first time they tagged them. I told you because to me, it was a slap in the face.
Now for the people that are part of the Bengals organization, the people that are fans of it, I understand the business side of things. That's the side I don't like.
Because when you tag me and let me know, you don't value me long term. Right.
You know what? Normally, when the team tags you, you know what? We betting against you, even though you're a part of us. I'm betting against you.
That's what it tells me. Again, I love my Bengals.
I love the fans. But the nature of the business is the one part I do not like, which is why I played the game like a little kid, because I want to make sure I kept it fun for me.
So I didn't have to worry about that side of it. Because that side of it, it gets nasty.
Read what you just wrote. Chat, you just heard it.
I don't like that side of things.

I like the fact that the band is back together.

I like the fact that he got his money.

Now, with the language that I just heard,

ain't no telling what's going to happen.

Ain't no telling what their plans are after this season.

So, I'm going to leave it at that.

I ain't going to say no more.

I'm just happy Madal got his money.

You hear me?

Got some money.

He got some money. Yeah.
But like I said, Ocho, for me, I can't be mad because that's his decision. And at the end of the day, the agent can put forth, it's like, okay, this is what they're offering.
This is what we're going to counter back at. Hopefully, you know, this is here.
They're here. We're here.

Hopefully, we land here.

Because, you know, you want to try to pull somewhere to the middle, Ocho. But at the end of the day,

this is T's decision.

Because at the end of the day, the agent works

at the behest

of the player.

Team has their negotiator.

Player has their negotiator.

You get in. I don't want to hear anything

because you know a lot of times the agents shield you

from all the negative stuff they're playing

I promise you they're seeing a lot of

what people say he's a number two

he's not a number one blah blah blah

Rock is shielding him for that but hey

hey they said look

they want to pay you we're just trying to get to a number

that they can digest

and it fits under the cap

while giving you the money that you

that they feel you deserve

Thank you. We're just trying to get to a number that they can digest, and it fits under the cap while giving you the money that they feel you deserve while being able to go out and get other players also.

So I get it.

Like I said, I believe T wanted to be there.

T gave them a discount.

Chad, like I said, Ochoa and I don't really need to add anything else about that

because at the end of the day, this was T's decision. At the end of the day, Ochoa comes down to T.
Listen, we got to get it done. Long, he's happy.
I talked to him. He's happy.
You know what you get. You got one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL.
Top three. Right now.
You know what you get. But we got to get it Yeah.
I'm talking about we got to get it done. Well, you're a bingo fan.
You're a bingo fan. I mean, look, you played there.
There's a sense of loyalty because you played there. You played there for a better part of a decade.
And so a lot of your roots, people associate you with being a bingo. Yeah, you had the one year in New England and other things,

but that's not where they associate you.

No.

You didn't have a career. It's funny.

It's like,

I ain't never seen anything like this, but people

associate Peyton Manning with the Broncos,

even though he played the largest part of his career.

Ochoa, it didn't.

It didn't. It didn't.

He played 14 years, if I'm not mistaken,

in Indy. He played four years in if I'm not mistaken, in Indy.
He played four years

in Denver and more people.

He lives in Denver.

His home base is in

Denver.

You see him talking

about Denver. You see him

at the Denver games. The only time I've seen

him go back to an Indy game

and Chad, y'all can correct me if I'm wrong,

is when they put the statue outside of him in front of Lucas Oil. Other than that, Peyton's at the Bronco game.
Hey, whoa, hey. Matt, speaking of, hey, I got a question.
Yes. I want me a statue right there in front of Paycourt Stadium.
They ain't got nothing to do with me. I know they don't got nothing to do with you.
How much do you think it costs for me to put it out there? They ain't going to put it out there. I'm going to put it out there.
I'm going to pay for it and just put it out there. That's private property.
Huh? That's private property. Who property belongs to? Mike Brown.
Man, I am part of the family. Let me tell you something.
If I had a knife right now, and I was to cut my wrist right now, you know what color I bleed? Black and orange. Chocolate.
Black ass. Matter of fact, hey, Mike Brown, Troy, Katie, Duke Tobin, I'm going, I'm going to wait until everybody's going.
In the middle of the night, I'm going to put my own statue out there. About eight foot tall.
Eight foot tall with me toe tapping on the sidelines. Right.
I think the people of Cincinnati would love it. We're in Denver.
We got a monument park where all the guys that have their numbers, like not numbers retired, but have their name up in, you know, in the ring of fame, you're in the park.

Okay.

I don't want to be in the park.

I want to be right outside the stadium.

Like you could come by,

you could,

you could,

you could rub,

you could rub,

rub,

rub my head or something for good luck before you go into the game.