Josh Brolin

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Speaker 2 Hi, my name is Josh Brolin, and I feel

Speaker 2 so Don Cheadle about being one time.

Speaker 2 I don't even know what that means. What does it mean? Who knows? Badass.

Speaker 1 Horny. You feel horny? Nice.

Speaker 1 Fall is here, hear the yell. Back to school, ring the bell.
Brand new shoes, walk in blues, climb the fence, books and pens. I can tell that we are gonna need friends.

Speaker 1 Yes, I can tell that we are gonna need friends.

Speaker 1 Hey there, welcome to Colonel O'Brien Needs a Friend. And we have a wonderful podcast today, joined as always by Sona Mosesian

Speaker 1 and Matt Gorley, I believe. I'm not even sure myself.
And

Speaker 1 Sona, this has got to be a big day for you. It is.
Because, and we rarely do this.

Speaker 1 We rarely talk about the guest, but this guest is one of the stars of a movie which has become over time the citizen cane of your generation. Defined a generation.
Don't scream. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 We're all in in the same room.

Speaker 1 Jesus Christ. Blaze'not here.
I'm compensating. Yeah.

Speaker 1 When you say like the Citizen Kane, I don't know. You don't even know what I'm talking about.
Citizen Kane was a movie with Orson Welles. I know what you're talking about.
Okay.

Speaker 1 That is very insulting. I know.

Speaker 1 I don't think you know about things. I think he said it to insult you.
Yeah. Oh, okay.
I meant to insult you. I know what Citizen Kane is.
Okay. Okay.
Yeah. But it's, you know what?

Speaker 1 It's just such a beloved movie. You know, it surprised me.
I'm just going to tell you, the movie, it skipped me because I was a little too old. Uh, and when I say a little too old, way too old.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 The movie came out, I believe, in 1985 or 86. And I am just 85, I think.
85. And I'm just getting my career started out in LA.
And I'm with my writing partner, Greg Daniels.

Speaker 1 And I remember the two of us. What's that? Me.
Name dropper. Yes.
Yes. No, he's a big deal.
I'm very happy for his success. And someday I'll have some too.
But the point is,

Speaker 1 Greg and I remembered this movie came out, The Goonies, which was a big deal. So we went to Westwood and we watched it, and it was like a movie for kids.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And Greg and I were sitting there and we're like, okay, well, I guess that's a fun movie for kids. I remember being very annoyed that all the kids talk over each other.
I knew that.

Speaker 1 Also, and I'm sorry, they also, the kids call gold rich stuff. And kids know the word gold.
They just do. Your criticisms of this movie are so tiny.

Speaker 1 I've never known a movie to have more of a dividing line on whether you love it or hate it. And it's all due to age.
Yes, it is. It's all age.
So I just don't get it. So I didn't get it.

Speaker 1 I didn't get it. I'll be honest with you.
I didn't get it. So flash forward all these years, and you start working with me and blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 And then at one point, I remember we're working at Warner Brothers studio together, and someone mentioned, oh, Goonies was shot in this studio where we make our TBS show. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You were like a nun that had seen the holy tomb of Christ.

Speaker 1 You exploded.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 bats flew out of you. There was an explosion.
Light came down.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I heard Armenian songs that haven't been heard for thousands of years.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you went nuts. And you were like, where's the spot? Where's the spot where they stood? Do you think that he stood here? Do you think? And I didn't understand.

Speaker 1 And so our guest today, Josh Brolin, of course, one of the stars of that film. Yeah.
And

Speaker 1 it's amazing. I mean, it's.
He's not a goonie from the beginning. No, he becomes.
Explain, because I don't know the movie. I lost track.
I know they. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's Mikey's brother, who is the main kid in it. He's played by Sean Aston.
Sean Aston. And yeah, he's his brother.
And then

Speaker 1 he's a coon. He's called Goonies.
Yeah. He's like the jock.
Are you nervous today?

Speaker 1 I am kind of. I also just, because he's also Thanos.
Yeah. Who do you revere more? Do you revere him for his Goonies role or for Thanos? Goonies.
Goonies. Okay.
Oh, what's your problem?

Speaker 1 Thanos.

Speaker 1 That's who he's become. And Sicario and

Speaker 1 Sicario's big. Yeah.
Okay. I don't know.
Don't you have a movie that you think about from your childhood that you watch it and you're like, yes, this always makes me happy. That's the goonies for me.

Speaker 1 You have to have something that, like, some emotion for something. Yeah, Heidi.

Speaker 1 She has super strength

Speaker 1 Are you thinking of Pippi Longstocking? Oh, Pippi Longstalking. Oh, fuck.
Let's do it again.

Speaker 1 Oh, no. Oh, it's too good.

Speaker 1 Fuck, I got the wrong one. Oh, man.
I was thinking Pippi Longstalking.

Speaker 1 I remembered seeing an ad. There was a terrible Pippi Longstalking movie that came out like in the mid-70s.
I'm staying at my grandparents' house.

Speaker 1 Take it easy. Okay.
I'm staying at my grandparents. I mean, it was made in, where was it made? Sweden.
Okay. And this is getting dicey.

Speaker 1 And all I remember is my grandparents had this crappy little black and white TV that got no reception. And we're down in Missquamacut, Rhode Island, staying at my grandparents' little cottage.

Speaker 1 And my brothers and I are crowded around and they kept playing over and over again this ad for come see the new movie, Pippi Longstocking.

Speaker 1 And it looked weird and you could tell the voices were dubbed badly, right? Yeah, they're very bad.

Speaker 1 And there's a part where this awkward-looking girl with pigtails who looked a lot like me at the time like lifts a horse over a

Speaker 1 what's that? Old man is the name of the horse. Oh fuck, what is your problem?

Speaker 1 You're not helping the conversational flow.

Speaker 1 Anyway. Or your coolness.
Yeah. I'm not after coolness.
I'm after veracity. Yeah.
So anyway. After hard facts.
Pippi.

Speaker 1 Pippi, like any good journalist, Pippi lifts the horse over her head. Okay.
And the special effect is terrible.

Speaker 1 It's pretty good for the job. And anyway, she lifts it over her head.
And then

Speaker 1 they cut a Swedish boy who's got like red cheeks and like some chocolate on his mouth. And I'll never forget, it's so badly dubbed.
And he goes, Pippi, are you crazy?

Speaker 1 See, that's quality. And that burned into my brain.
Pippi, are you crazy?

Speaker 1 So that whole summer of 1974 on Crandall Avenue in Missquamacut, Rhode Island, I would walk around looking not unlike Pippi and going, Pippi, are you crazy?

Speaker 1 Until I was beaten by my brothers. Yeah.
And rightfully so. I would have beaten you.
God, what a terrible looking movie. Anyway,

Speaker 1 we got off track, but it was the goonies of its day. That was the goonies before the goonies.
Do you think so? No, I don't, and I'm just being a dick. I was a big goonies fan as well.

Speaker 1 And I'll give you one guess to which my favorite Goonie was. The one that had all the secret inventions.
Yes, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 So much so that when I was in junior high, I took a little like triple soap dish that could open and close and made a belt buckle out of it and put a little motor with a clock cog in it. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 That would pop out like a saw blade. And so I.

Speaker 1 I have one question.

Speaker 1 And I just need

Speaker 1 it later. No, I just need a number.

Speaker 1 No, mine is how many times were you stabbed in school? Well, none because I was defended by a so you were

Speaker 1 you made a you so you data, he's the guy that has like these weird devices that come out of his range. He's the James Bond music when he enters the movie.
I mean, come on.

Speaker 1 Oh, and he's played by short round faces. I was going to say, was it

Speaker 1 before or after? It's after.

Speaker 1 So you already were like, yeah, I love this.

Speaker 1 Kannada Jones. And then you saw him in the goonies.
You're like, oh my gosh. Then I went to junior high, popped open my plastic soap dish.
Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. I tell you what, though, I'm not even joking.
Normally, I would self-deprecate. I was cock of the walk that day.
Let me tell you something.

Speaker 1 Every kid was lining up to see that soap dish saw blade. And I walked out of there with my head held high.

Speaker 1 I was cock of the walk.

Speaker 1 And I love that. That hasn't been said.
I'm getting it. I'm getting it right now.
Oh, here it is. Hasn't Hasn't been said since 1934.

Speaker 1 Franklin Roosevelt, after a fireside chat, turned to Eleanor and said, I'm cock of the walk now.

Speaker 1 People have said that before. Oh, yeah, that cock of the walk is a.
Oh, that's cool. So, like, cock, like the rooster cock, or cock, like dick cock.
No, no, no.

Speaker 1 Not

Speaker 1 Jesus. Why do you always have to drag everything out in the gutter? It's my, me.
I do. I don't always do that.
I'm just saying. You say cock of the walk.

Speaker 1 When I hear cock, it's the first thing I think of is a penis. I'm sorry.
When When you hear light bulb, the first thing you think of is cock.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 What is that? Marzipan? What? Did someone say cock?

Speaker 1 Yeah, rap, please. Nope.
I want to do more of these. Cock it up.

Speaker 1 I'm Tona's therapist. I'm going to hold some images up to you.
Here's one, cock. Here's another one.
Dick. Here's one.
Scroot.

Speaker 1 Most of the people who heard him say cock of the walk thought what I thought. I don't know.
No, I don't think so. I don't think so.
No, nope, no one here. Fuck everybody.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah, yeah.
I just love

Speaker 1 you got burned. You got burned.
I thought Eduardo would be on my side, but I guess.

Speaker 1 But when I say I'm wearing a turtleneck dickie, do you think dick? What are you? What is a turtleneck dicky? A turtleneck dicky is like a

Speaker 1 it looks like you're wearing a turtleneck, but you're not. It only goes this far and you put it under your, we'll cut this part.
It's not as good as what we just had. Cockaroo.
Okay.

Speaker 1 We always elevate and then we get back into the mud and then actually we never elevate. No.

Speaker 1 I know. What are you what? All right.
And for what podcast do you think you're on? The podcast is on the rest is history. In the dirt.
My guest today is an actor who has starred in movies like,

Speaker 1 oh, I love it. And his credits, it doesn't say the one movie that Sona loves.

Speaker 1 My guest today is an actor who has starred in movies like No Country for Old Men and Avengers Endgame. And the Goonies.
Doesn't say that. Thrash him.
Well, you don't have to read what it says.

Speaker 1 You could say the Goonies, goonies, too. It doesn't say it here.
He now has a new memoir titled, and guess what? I've read this book, and it is beautiful and is very powerful.

Speaker 1 I can't say enough good about this book.

Speaker 1 I'm being very sincere. It's a lovely, it's a lovely testament this gentleman has written about his very unusual life.
It's very cool. It's titled From Under the Truck.

Speaker 1 I'm thrilled he's here today.

Speaker 1 From the Goonies.

Speaker 2 Josh Brolin, welcome.

Speaker 1 I think you're excited to see me.

Speaker 2 I am excited. I'm really excited.
The first time I went on your show was for flirting with disaster. Yep.
And I think, you know, which I'm much less nervous now. I still get nervous, but not really.

Speaker 2 I don't care as much now. Yep.
But back then, I told a story about how my dad's so good looking that I told him I wanted to have sex with him or something like that. And nobody got it.

Speaker 1 i still think it's funny it is funny it is funny because it's your dad and like of course you don't want to have sex with your dad and somebody that's that good looking even the son would want to have sex with them every angle i look at it from it's still funny

Speaker 2 and literally you and i were like you went and i looked out and everybody was like yeah like nothing you know it was a different time it was

Speaker 1 it was a different time and you were way ahead of the curve that wasn't on you that was on that audience that night it was a bad audience i I remember them fuckers.

Speaker 2 They didn't give a fuck what I had to say.

Speaker 1 I'm going to start because I have to say this right away. And I'm going to address my cohorts here.
Mr. Brolin here, Josh Brolin, has written a book.
And I told him this backstage.

Speaker 1 And I want to say it right here, right now.

Speaker 1 Many celebrities write a book or known people write a book. And you look at it and you go, okay, they cranked this out.
This is a beautiful book. This is a really beautiful book.

Speaker 2 What are you doing? I'm just video recording it.

Speaker 1 We're recording this the whole time. This is a YouTube channel.

Speaker 1 No, I don't.

Speaker 2 I won't use this for anybody other than my own ego.

Speaker 1 Okay, there you go.

Speaker 1 This is a gorgeous book and it's really powerful and it is brilliantly written. And I read this thing and I

Speaker 1 thought there was so much in it that I did not know about you. It's fantastic.
It's great. And it's called Josh Perlin, a memoir from under the truck.
I didn't know all this stuff about you.

Speaker 1 You jump around in time. You talk a lot about the different experiences you had on different projects, and there's a lot to talk about here.

Speaker 1 But the thread that runs through this whole thing is your mom.

Speaker 1 And it is very powerful stuff. Man, is she a character? She is a character.

Speaker 2 And she was a character, is a character, continues to be a character.

Speaker 1 It's so interesting because one of my favorite movies of all time, and I think I've probably told you this hundreds of times, odd nauseum, but No Country for Old Men is one of my all-time favorite movies and your performance in it and Javier's performance in it.

Speaker 1 But I watch that movie again and again and again and marvel at it.

Speaker 1 This, what I never realized is that your character, Llewellyn, is much closer to you and the way you grew up than I ever knew, which is fascinating.

Speaker 1 What did you mean? Well, you grew up.

Speaker 2 I mean, oh, you mean ranch and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 Yeah, first of all, your life, and there are so many passages in this book where you're taking care of animals, you're living on a ranch, you're living in this incredibly rural environment.

Speaker 1 You've got this life that was much manlier than anything I've ever experienced. I'm sorry.
I had a butterfly net.

Speaker 1 Occasionally, I'd go outside with my butterfly net.

Speaker 1 And then my mother would say, get back inside, the sun's out.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 1 your mom, let's talk about your mom because she's runs through this book and

Speaker 1 she died very tragically, I believe 1995 is when you lost your mom. But she jumps off the page and it's very unconventional.
She's not a conventional mom in any way.

Speaker 1 You guys are drinking buddies, pretty much, at an early age.

Speaker 2 I think I say it it in one of the, if you, you know, chapters, if you will, which we decided at the, toward the tail end of this to put in chapters to make it followable or just, you know, stories that you could kind of note and go back to.

Speaker 2 But there's one that said, I was, I can't remember exactly what it says, but it says something like, I was

Speaker 2 created in her kind of

Speaker 2 likeness to be a drinker. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.
So it was like, it was kind of like a surrogate husband, so to speak.

Speaker 2 My dad was, you know, extremely, they got married in 12 days after seven days. I think after five, no, it was seven days.

Speaker 2 They sat down, they had a scorpion drink, one of those massive cups between them.

Speaker 2 My dad was reeling from a recent breakup and my mom with her voice, that Texan voice, they were, you know, drinking it up. And she looked up and she goes, well, and my dad's like, yeah.

Speaker 2 And he, she goes, are we, we're going to do it or what?

Speaker 1 He was like, do what?

Speaker 2 And she said, get married. Are Are we going to just, are we going to do it or what? And he got so kind of, you know, perplexed and confused and nervous that he just said, Yeah, I guess.

Speaker 2 And she said, Okay. And she started planning it at that moment.
Wow. And five days later, they were married.

Speaker 1 Of course, your dad, very well-known actor, James Brolin.

Speaker 2 Super handsome.

Speaker 1 Super handsome.

Speaker 1 I mean, odd fuck him.

Speaker 1 Yes, now it's full circle. Full circle.
I have.

Speaker 1 You're not supposed to talk about it.

Speaker 1 I said it was okay. But it's interesting because

Speaker 1 we live in this era where people talk about, you know,

Speaker 1 Meepo and, oh, you're the child of celebrity. That's like the new thing.
Yeah, that's the new thing. But I'm saying that, oh, you're the child of celebrity.
You read this book. Your dad.

Speaker 2 And you're like, where the fuck is the celebrity?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Your dad is not. That's kind of the point.
Your dad kind of is not really in the picture that much. He's very peripheral.
Your mom, you say my childhood was on a leash of the wind of my mother.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 that you were sort of told to be, you're going to be the man of the house, even though you're a little kid.

Speaker 1 Didn't matter to her.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then you live this life that is completely different. I mean, you are on a ranch.
There's like 22s, rifles. There's, I mean,

Speaker 1 the life you're living is not that of a kid who's growing up in any kind of privilege. Yeah, but that's the whole thing.

Speaker 2 And that's the thing that, you know, either people are really interested in or they're not interested in.

Speaker 2 To me, I know that I've fought the idea of celebrity my whole life, even though I didn't grow up in L.A. Everybody thinks I grew up in Malibu.
I didn't grow up in Malibu.

Speaker 2 And then you imagine what happens on a set and you think it's this perpetual red carpet and you're just waving literally your entire life.

Speaker 2 Do you know what I mean? There is a perception of I was just on the on the phone with my lit agent, Kimberly Witherspoon this morning, and I was like,

Speaker 2 I'm spinning. I'm spinning.
Like you saw me, I felt it get uncomfortable when you said those nice things about the book. I got tearied.

Speaker 2 This means the world to me because it's me being naked about the realities of the life that I've lived and the life of a lot of other celebrities that I know.

Speaker 2 You know, there's no, and it's not that it's looking for compassion. It's not, but but there's no compassion in that.
There's no just like, oh, you, you guys have the same problems. No, you don't.

Speaker 2 You live in a bubble. You all live under the same apartment complex.
And you just go,

Speaker 2 what are you thinking?

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 Right. What are you thinking?

Speaker 2 What about the life of this kind of unconventional life of this guy who was germinated unbeknownst to anybody that it was going to be this into an artist who just found creativity as an outlet, got attached to it.

Speaker 2 The self-destructive part of him grew and grew and grew with it. And then somehow, through having kids and all that, found his way out of the self-destructive part.

Speaker 1 Well, I read this book and I thought it's kind of a miracle you're alive because there's so many parts of this book where your drinking is out of control and you're,

Speaker 1 you almost, it feels like you have a death wish at times. Same thing with your mom.

Speaker 1 And you read this. these accounts, which again are so beautifully written.
And then you intersperse that by jumping around with you show up on the set to shoot the goonies.

Speaker 1 And so there's this crazy world that you're living in where you feel like, oh, he's a ranch hand. He's not even a ranch hand.
He's someone who has to work his way up to being a ranch hand.

Speaker 1 That's how it feels sometimes. And then suddenly you time travel, you're on the set of the goonies, and you feel like, this is weird.
I don't know what this is. This make-believe world that I'm in.

Speaker 2 This seems kind of fun, but not even close to as surreal as my world.

Speaker 1 Yes. Yes.
Your world is much more surreal

Speaker 1 than showing up and making

Speaker 1 the goonies with Steven Spielberg and Richard Donner.

Speaker 1 And by the way, I have to step outside this conversation for one second and tell you that Sonoma Ossi and Citizen Kane is the goonies.

Speaker 1 And I witnessed this firsthand because this is true for an entire generation.

Speaker 1 I shoot this travel show and I was not long ago in New Zealand, and I'm in New Zealand, and I see a kind of a familiar face way across the way in this strange hotel we're in.

Speaker 1 And she starts coming closer to me, and she goes, Conan, hi. And I go, Hi, I can't see quite who it is.
And she gets closer, and I realize, oh, it's Martha Plimpton. No, why?

Speaker 1 Martha Plimpton's in New Zealand. She's there to shoot something.
She sits at our table, holds court, is lovely, fantastic, really funny. My crew is all women, three women, two cameras, and sound.

Speaker 1 They are shaking, shaking. And I'm because she's in the

Speaker 1 thing is, I kept thinking, yeah, Martha Plimpton, she's great, but shaking? Yeah. You know, you never shook when you met me.

Speaker 1 Why are they shaking?

Speaker 1 Is you guys have a, is there a tremor going around? And at the end of the night, they went, can we just please, please, please, please, Martha? Can we just please get a picture with you?

Speaker 1 And then after they get the picture, they're practically crying and hugging each other.

Speaker 1 And I said to them, What? And they said, the goonies. Yep.
right oh yeah Matt too it's not just me true former

Speaker 1 oh yeah yeah yeah and you do whole movie of my life you do whole monologues to me about Troy's bucket yes of course it's the most inspirational monologue ever there have been times because Sona's been with me for a long time and there have been times where I've been and we've been all over the place

Speaker 1 and and I'm not kidding there were times where I was on tour and it was right after the tonight show fiasco and I'm down and out and I'm like man I got to salvage my career and and you would say

Speaker 1 you would say say, Conan,

Speaker 1 it's their time up there. It's your time.
And I went, what are you talking about?

Speaker 2 And she went, it's not your time.

Speaker 1 It's our time. It's our time.
And I'm like, Sona, what is this?

Speaker 1 And everyone around her was like, she's right. It's Troy's bucket.
And I'm like, what the fuck are you people talking about?

Speaker 1 I'm 87 years old.

Speaker 1 Honestly, it's like if you did a Freud quote, if you did some other quote, you'd be like, wow.

Speaker 2 Yeah. But because it's the Goonies, it has this reference of like, cute.

Speaker 1 No, but for a whole generation, it is wow.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no, dude. For like three generations.
I don't know how many generals are. Are you my age?

Speaker 1 I am 98 years old. Yeah, I know.
So you are. We're the same age.
I fought in World War II.

Speaker 1 I am 61. You're 61.
I'm 56.

Speaker 1 Okay. Well,

Speaker 1 dub it in.

Speaker 2 Yeah. 61.
You look so good.

Speaker 1 Thank you. I've had a ton of work done.
Have you? I'm

Speaker 2 a filler, honestly.

Speaker 1 I get no filler. I do.
And you know what?

Speaker 2 Really?

Speaker 1 Yeah, my lips. No.
No, I'm not going to just lip.

Speaker 1 We all see those. We all see those guys.

Speaker 2 Can you imagine somebody like me getting filler?

Speaker 1 No, as he sits cross-legged on the chair, by the way. Look at this.
This is great. We all just stared at you.
Gosh, you know what's amazing?

Speaker 1 No one would ever believe that I would get filler in my lips because I have no lips.

Speaker 1 My mouth is a slit. It's a gash in my face.
You do have great cheekbones.

Speaker 2 You do have great cheekbones, and you would look amazing with bigger lips. I suggest

Speaker 1 you fill it. You know what I should do?

Speaker 1 I don't think it's a bad thing.

Speaker 2 I know there can be reactions, but even you, because you have no lips, if it reacted poorly, it would still look good.

Speaker 1 So even if I got a bad swelling, it would give me something.

Speaker 1 It's so mean.

Speaker 1 Josh, you could have said something like, no, no, you look fine, but you went, no, even though you're not fine. No, because everybody says this.
This is not a perpetual red carpet.

Speaker 1 I watched it. You are not a fucking celebrity.
God damn it. I thought this was my time.
That was... There! You just throw it around.

Speaker 1 This is not their time. This is our time.
It's our time down here.

Speaker 1 I remember voice control.

Speaker 2 I remember Steve Anton said, what was it?

Speaker 2 What was Carrie's name? Andy?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Andy!

Speaker 2 Like, it's the worst voice control of any actor until I did my next movie, which was Thrashin.

Speaker 2 when I was in the premiere and I saw that movie, a movie that I don't talk shit about anymore, but I did for years when I saw it, and my name was Chrissy that I yelled at, and she walked out of my trailer.

Speaker 2 I go, Chrissy!

Speaker 1 And I was like, Oh my god, you suck so bad.

Speaker 1 You're actually hurting people.

Speaker 2 Acting is supposed to bring joy, and you're bringing

Speaker 1 Amazon is known for its products, but I also really love their customer reviews.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this holiday season, Amazon is bringing the most creative and outrageous customer reviews into the spotlight as part of their Amazon five-star theater.

Speaker 1 Here's a review for the board game Twister. Angela writes, I bought this to play with my other late 20s, early 30s friends.
Our bodies were not prepared for the pain that ensued.

Speaker 1 When all of my extremities ended up on the same color, my body went into full spasm.

Speaker 1 This is harrowing. My arms turned to jelly and my spine broke in half.

Speaker 1 Finally, I fell slowly to the ground in frog pose. The torture was over.
If you're in basic shape and somewhat flexible, this is the game for you. Five stars.

Speaker 1 You know, it's very rare for someone to be doing something with a product and have their spine break in half and give it a five-star review. That is very rare.
Yeah. This person's a very good sport.

Speaker 1 Anyway, whatever you're looking for this holiday, find the perfect gift on Amazon.

Speaker 1 Ashley believes that your home should be an expression of who you are. Sona,

Speaker 1 you've been working with Ashley recently. Care to tell us? Yeah, well, I'm an interior decorator now.
You know what? I do think you have good style. Yeah, well, it actually makes it very easy.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And then, you know, recently,

Speaker 1 sadly, we lost our house and we were living with my parents for four and a half months and my kids trashed the place. So my parents, we got them this dining set.
It's really pretty.

Speaker 1 First of all, they look pretty durable, but they are. But your kids are, you know, they're very good at destroying things.
They are, and they can't even destroy.

Speaker 1 Why do you let your children have saws and hammers? It just feels like a mistake. I know.

Speaker 1 But that's beautiful. That's gorgeous.
Yeah, they love it. It was really easy.
And because I'm an interior decorator, I also helped Blai with what he really badly needed, some new furniture.

Speaker 1 Trust me, all of Blais' furniture was just old action figures duct taped together. That's right.
Into crude furniture shapes. Yeah, not comfortable at all.
Yeah. Extra poking you and everything.

Speaker 1 You'd be like, attack, attack.

Speaker 1 But thanks to Sona, she got me this fantastic sectional. Oh, look at that.

Speaker 1 Which is amazing. And due to Ashley's white glove delivery, came right to my door.
And really, it is the nicest thing in my apartment. Yeah.
It's really great.

Speaker 1 I mean, you don't have to convince this person. Yeah, we all believe this.
Very nice looking sectional. I'm telling you, you've got to believe me.
All right.

Speaker 1 Shop the season with Ashley to make your home merry and bright before the holidays. Visit your local Ashley store or head to Ashley.com to find your style.
Hey, Sona, I heard you got a new car. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, David usually gives me a ride to work, but I'd love it if you. No, no, no.
You're not. I'm sorry.
You're not allowed in my new car.

Speaker 1 My Palisade is my oasis. It's my happy place.
So you're not allowed in Palisade. Wait a minute.
What are you talking about? I made you.

Speaker 1 When I found you, you were wandering the streets with a bucket on your head. What? And now you're Sonoma Obsession and you're driving around the Palisade.
You won't give me a ride?

Speaker 1 This is why I don't let you in my happy place because you talk about me walking around with a bucket on my head. Why would I let you into my personal oasis if this is the way you're going to talk?

Speaker 1 You have to earn your spot. Well, earn it in my Hyundai Pisis.
The whole new Hyundai Palisade hybrid is more than just another SUV.

Speaker 1 It's still the Palisade, but with so much more, like up to 600 plus miles of range. That's incredible.
Yeah, it is. And class-leading interior space.
So much space.

Speaker 1 Now, have you enjoyed that extra space? I'm being very serious right now. If you recline the seat all the way back, a little ottoman pops up so you can sleep comfortably in the front seat.

Speaker 1 That's insane. Yeah.
There are seating configurations for seven to eight passengers with available third row power seats that recline plus available front and second row relaxation seats.

Speaker 1 Learn more about the Hyundai Palisade at hyundaiusa.com. Call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

Speaker 1 I always go back to the one in Wall Street.

Speaker 1 Charlie Sheen is on an elevator with his father. And Martin Sheen, they're having this big argument.

Speaker 1 And Martin Sheen's line is, I don't measure a man's worth by the size of his wallet is what he's supposed to yell at him.

Speaker 1 I adore Martin Sheen.

Speaker 1 He's one of my all-time favorites and a lovely man. But his line reading was, well, at least I don't measure a man's worth by the size of his wallet.

Speaker 2 It was a patina moment.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's the give me all you got. Yeah.
And

Speaker 1 that's what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's what it is. But anyway, every actor has those.

Speaker 2 By the way, have you heard that story, give me all you got? And he was like, you know, we had planned that he was on cocaine. Yes.
And you go, thank God that wasn't just you.

Speaker 1 Oh, I think that was retroactively put in to make sense of what

Speaker 1 explain for people who don't know. Yeah, there's a scene in Heat where he's interrogating a source, but the best part is he's clearly improvising because when he says, Give me all you got!

Speaker 1 The other guy, the look on his face is so real. Like he's looking to Michael Mann going, Are we going to use this? Yeah, right.
And it works.

Speaker 1 He's like, And then you know what you do when you get to that point.

Speaker 2 I've been to that place, I've been in that place, and you do it twice.

Speaker 1 Yeah, give me all you got!

Speaker 1 Give me all you got!

Speaker 1 It's like, please cut. That's what he's saying.
Please cut the film. Don't let this happen.

Speaker 2 I'm an actor. I can't stop.

Speaker 1 And he's one of my own.

Speaker 1 I think in the same one, he says, She's got a great ass. That's what I mean.
And he slaps the table. And he slaps the table.
And the thing is, the thing about Pacino, who sat in that chair

Speaker 1 and had a great ass. He sat

Speaker 1 one of the greats. He is

Speaker 1 God, but

Speaker 1 he can get away with anything. Anything because he's out.
Yeah, except that. That was wrong.
That was wrong. That was a perfect movie.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And he fucked it up.

Speaker 2 Or Michael Mann fucked it up. And I'm saying that from a fellow actor, I've spoken with him.

Speaker 1 Not that I've told him, hey, why'd you fuck up me?

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 he's one of the great. I mean,

Speaker 2 Dog Day Afternoon to me is like one of the greatest films of all time that I've probably seen 30 times. And it's just, I mean, truly one of the greatest.

Speaker 2 When I heard him back, I was on a plane and I heard him back there.

Speaker 2 It was like Tom Wait's version of this. And I couldn't, it's one of the few people I couldn't come up to.
I was so in awe. Me too.
And he came up to me and he said, I'm a big fan. And I was like, wow.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's a moment I'll never forget.

Speaker 2 He's the godfather. Yeah.
Did he say he was a fan of yours? No, not a fan.

Speaker 1 He went out of his way. He kind of did that.
No, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 He went way out of his way to say, not a fan.

Speaker 1 No, no, he was very sweet to me. And I've run into him a couple of times and he has been enormously kind and sweet to me.

Speaker 2 Can we just revisit this really quick before you move on? And I know I say this every time I see you, but I used to see you on the street in the north. If you know this.
Upper West Side.

Speaker 2 Upper West Side, but not in the park. The Upper West Side, I would see you on the street and you would always avoid me.
And that's the truth. You would always avoid me.
You'd always look at me.

Speaker 2 You'd have your dogs. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I was totally one dog.

Speaker 2 One dog? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I imagined 19.

Speaker 1 Well, I had a paper-mâché dogs. I wanted people to think I had two dogs.
Really? So I had had a real dog, and then I had a paper-mâché dog. But I do.
I always remember

Speaker 2 recognizing you, and then you would look up, and then basically it was your version of stay away from me. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
I was very anti-goony back then. No, you didn't know I was from the Goonies.
You just thought I was some weird street urchin that needed cocaine and you looked like a dealer.

Speaker 1 You were swinging a hatchet. I will say that.
He looked like a dealer.

Speaker 1 No, I'm just saying. That's probably what I thought then.
Yeah. Hey, man, you holding? You holding?

Speaker 2 Aren't you Conan O'Brien?

Speaker 1 Man, no? Okay. As everyone will tell you, I'm notoriously unfriendly when you meet me on the street.
Notoriously.

Speaker 1 But yeah,

Speaker 1 I dipped out for that Goonies moment. We have another connection, which is because you mentioned this a lot in your book,

Speaker 1 and you tell this great story. But the set where we shot our show, our TBS show for 10 years was the set

Speaker 1 with the where they shot the Goonies on Warner Brothers. Oh, really? Yes.

Speaker 1 And And so I know you tell this great story where the director, Donner, and I think Spielberg, they wanted it to be a surprise when you guys come out of the water and see the ship for the first time.

Speaker 1 So they had you all go underwater with your eyes closed backwards and then turn underwater.

Speaker 2 With an underwater speaker that they're saying, we'll tell you when to come up. When to come up.

Speaker 1 And they wanted your honest reactions to seeing this massive galleon that they had built for the first time. Which was great.
And speak about screwing things up. What did you do?

Speaker 2 I came up. They said, go.
And I heard everybody else coming up. So I was late.
So I wasn't thinking. I came up.
I looked at it. I turned around.
I looked at it and I went, fuck.

Speaker 2 And Donner goes, what?

Speaker 1 I go, sorry.

Speaker 1 Sorry. He goes, go back under, go back under.
This is a G movie.

Speaker 1 You know, and also. You can't do that again.
You can't see it for the first time.

Speaker 2 No, that's what I'm saying. Go back under.
I ruined the whole thing.

Speaker 2 And again, like when we go back and talking about this book is that, you know, you go, oh, we're hiring Jim Brolin's son or whatever. And he auditioned six times.
And I was. I was right for that part.

Speaker 2 I look at it objectively and I go, I was right. I look like a jock.
I look like Sean Aston. But the truth of the matter is, is they were hiring a Cito Rat.

Speaker 2 They were hiring a guy who was already doing, have done a lot. I'd already been to jail two times.

Speaker 2 So, you know, when I go up and say, fuck, it's organic.

Speaker 1 It's not like, oh my God, fuck. That's so big.

Speaker 1 It's so hard being an actor's son.

Speaker 2 Anyway, I was going to show you. I keep reaching for this, and I'm going to show you.
Keep talking and I'll show you.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, anyway, this is a podcast, see? And I'll just keep talking while the guy I'm interviewing isn't paying attention.
No,

Speaker 1 That's not how this works.

Speaker 1 What am I supposed to do?

Speaker 2 This is, I don't know. This is a picture of me.
It's my mother. JB is a kid.
It's me in my crib with a mountain lion.

Speaker 1 Holy shit. There you go.
Let me see.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. That is.
And it's not a cub. It is an adolescent mountain lion.
And that's.

Speaker 1 Is that your mom putting it in the middle?

Speaker 2 That's my mom taking the picture. Look at the camera.
I'm like,

Speaker 2 I'm not taking my eyes off the mountain line. I'm not looking at the camera.

Speaker 1 This is like you and Melanie Griffith. Didn't her tip children?

Speaker 2 They knew each other. They did know each other.

Speaker 1 They grew up on a farm with all these lions and everything.

Speaker 2 And if you look at the face, it will tell you everything. Not that I was beaten.
That's what it is growing up with wild animals.

Speaker 1 Because you're constantly getting

Speaker 1 spot in the fall.

Speaker 1 But also...

Speaker 2 Birdbites, my mom.

Speaker 1 What's interesting about this? Birdbites.

Speaker 1 Anyway, Josh, in the book, you jump between the sort of iconic Hollywood experiences where it's you and Sean Penn, and you're meeting Robert De Niro for the first time.

Speaker 1 And you have this great thing. You're such a wise, you've never met De Niro before.

Speaker 2 He sits down at the table and you say, I don't mean to be, it's like even joking around with you. Like, I'm in this thing right now.
It's like, I don't mean to be mean.

Speaker 2 There's like people that I like, Colbert, you, you know, where I get along with really well. And then I know I do that thing, which I don't mean.

Speaker 2 That's just what I grew up with.

Speaker 1 We always kind of poke each other. Trust me,

Speaker 1 I drink from that well exclusively.

Speaker 1 It's called growing up with brothers and sisters, and we're always constantly cuffing each other. And all we do is talk shit at each other.
That's trust.

Speaker 2 That's family. To me, that's family.
Not everybody gets that. That's why when I go to Italy, everybody's like that.
And I was like, oh, wow, I was just born in the wrong country.

Speaker 2 Like, everybody, even the grandmother is like, what the fuck are you looking at? And I'm like, what?

Speaker 1 What's funny is you have these, you have these

Speaker 2 actively trying to ruin my career.

Speaker 1 You jump from these moments where you're telling really funny stories about these, you know,

Speaker 1 like hanging out with Brando and Travolta and like these great stories. But then the next chapter, you'll jump back in time and it's you,

Speaker 1 it's four in the morning and it's your job to feed like 75 horses.

Speaker 2 Because

Speaker 2 there's connective tissue there somewhere and it's not linear because what is linear? It's, you know, I was saying this this morning.

Speaker 2 I was saying the whole point of the book is that it's this kind of,

Speaker 2 it's a collective, like I love the idea of groups of people being able to lean on each other. And, and, and if it's, if, you know, you don't have the same beliefs, it's a messy fucking life, man.

Speaker 2 It's all over the place. It's all made up of moments.
This whole idea of trajectory.

Speaker 2 And like, I did the Goonies and then I did thrashing and then I worked with, you know, then I did Highway to Heaven.

Speaker 2 It's like, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 But what were you thinking? What were you this? What was the messiness? How did you become who you are at this point? And then, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 It's way more interesting to me to get into the non-linear kind of reactions off. You have De Niro in front of you and you look at him like, I don't, I'm sure it was the wine,

Speaker 2 but I was like, look at your face, man. And he goes, what? And I was like, you just got a fucking face.
Look at your face. Has anybody ever told you?

Speaker 2 Like, have you ever thought about, I know you run a motel or a hotel or whatever it is, but you thought about acting?

Speaker 1 Now, did he laugh?

Speaker 2 No, and then I hear Sean go, dude, shut the fuck up.

Speaker 1 No, he didn't laugh, but he was like, what?

Speaker 1 You talking about me? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And I was like, your face, the way you're sitting in that chair, is just so kind of celebrity.

Speaker 1 But why not? We're in the middle of the day.

Speaker 2 No, but you said it before, and it's like, and I don't mean to make it morbid or anything, but you said death wish. It was never a death wish.
I never had a death wish. It was a vivid wish.

Speaker 2 I just wanted things. Maybe it was the LSD I took at 13.
I don't know. But it was like, I just wanted, my mom was that.
She just wanted it heightened.

Speaker 1 You talk about these experiences where you would go with your mom. You're a kid.
She would go to a restaurant and it's just the two of you. And then she would start making.

Speaker 1 her move to connect with a guy there and you knew what was happening and you'd go out in the parking lot and go look for rattlesnakes by yourself while your mom cozied up with someone.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but she wasn't, you know, she wasn't, and I would say this, if she was, she wasn't particularly sexual.

Speaker 2 Again, it was more about whatever the event was. Like we went into a restaurant.
It was very rare my mom didn't end up in the kitchen. Yes.
You know, and my mom cooked every day.

Speaker 2 Whether there was somebody on the ranch or not, she cooked every day and then she'd put it on somebody's fence post. So she cooked all the time.
And I have all those recipes.

Speaker 2 I have a whole wall full of recipes that she, that are all handwritten and all that. So it's very cool.
But the truth of the matter is, is that she was a big drinker. She would go out.
She was loud.

Speaker 2 She was masculine. You know, if she wanted to kiss you, there's nothing that would stop her from doing that.
She would grab you. She would pull her you across the table and then she'd give you a kiss.

Speaker 2 And then something else would come up. You know, somebody would bark and then she'd look over and you know what I mean? It was like a high-pitched whistle dog thing.

Speaker 2 She just wanted to be in the nucleus of everything of what was most heightened and most interesting without knowing why. And

Speaker 2 she was always like that. She would tell me that her parents were super sweet parents, teachers, really smart, Corpus Christi, Texas, and that she was always sneaking out of the house.

Speaker 2 She was always causing trouble. She always had animals in her garage that she was hiding.
She was just that in an organic way.

Speaker 2 And I don't have it in the book. She ended up.
She ran away from home when she was 19. The first people she met were Clint and Maggie Eastwood.

Speaker 2 Right? So that's who before Clint did rawhide or any of that. They kind of took her under their wing.
She hung out in Hollywood. She grew up Baptist, very strict.

Speaker 2 She started sleeping with all these guys, married men, and all that.

Speaker 2 She kind of went crazy, took a bunch of pills, got in a car, started hitting a bunch of parked cars, ended up in Camarillo State Hospital. Three and a half weeks, they assessed her.

Speaker 2 Three and a half weeks later, they said, Look, she's not crazy. She just had a moment.
They go to Camarillo State Hospital to pick her up, and she doesn't want to leave. She goes, I like it here.

Speaker 2 It's fun.

Speaker 2 And she had become friends with a lady. I mean, again, this is super morbid, but a lady who had hacked up her whole family and hadn't talked for 12 years.

Speaker 2 And I can see it right now, probably sat next to her and said, I don't understand why you're not talking.

Speaker 1 Do you not talk at all?

Speaker 2 Do you have a voice or do you have this?

Speaker 2 And the girl finally said, candy. And it was like a whole breakthrough.

Speaker 1 Your mom broke through this woman who isn't talking to anyone.

Speaker 2 Out of total annoyance, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Would you please shut up and I'll tell you exactly who I hacked and why.

Speaker 2 But, you know, I don't tell that story because there's no need to tell that story because it has that in the fabric of each story.

Speaker 2 And you can see that for me in my life, it's hard to tell those stories when you're promoting a book because who the fuck wants to read about that? But at the same time, you go, that's normal, man.

Speaker 2 That's normal for us.

Speaker 1 What you clearly inherited from your mom, as you said, is this need that you wanted, and it's in all these stories you tell throughout your childhood and through a chunk of your adulthood, you need the dials turned up all the way.

Speaker 1 You need that. That's just something that you insist upon.
And so, if that means whatever that means, whatever you're going to do, and then you go, why would I be an actor?

Speaker 2 I had no interest in being an actor. Like, my dad, my dad's profession didn't interest me in the least.
There was nothing that kind of drew me toward, like, what do you do? And wow, you do the thing.

Speaker 2 And it was nothing. And I did a, I took a theater class because there was like underwater basket weaving and theater.
And I was like, well, I'll do the theater. And this woman had me get up on stage.

Speaker 2 I was the first one she chose, get up on stage, create a character, any character you want. How does he look? How does he feel? Where is he from? How does he do this?

Speaker 2 Now, as the house, we're going to ask you questions and you answer as the character. And as I was, I was like a balding, middle-aged guy from Brooklyn or something.

Speaker 2 I don't know, whatever I came up with in my head. And as I was answering in humor, once people started laughing at my answers, it just clicked.
I was like, this is it. This is heightened.

Speaker 2 This is me able to resort to my imagination, which is far more interesting than my reality.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I completely relate to being a kid, making people laugh.

Speaker 1 And when people describe, oh, the first time I tried a drug and I realized that's who I want to be, that person, that's how I felt when, oh, these kids at the Baldwin School, K through 3 school, are laughing at some nonsense I'm doing.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, what is this? What is this? I got to have more of this.

Speaker 1 And I don't care who I hurt.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of beauty in the book. There's a lot of darkness in the book.
You grew up with this group, this pack of kids.

Speaker 1 And there's one quote that I circled: the group of guys I grew up with, 37 of them are dead.

Speaker 2 36.

Speaker 1 I got some bad news for you.

Speaker 1 I just got a word.

Speaker 2 You actually just

Speaker 1 got a word five minutes ago. And it's you.
Yeah. No, it's not you,

Speaker 1 but it's your friend Spencer.

Speaker 1 And it was totally.

Speaker 2 See, now your family. Yeah.
Now your family.

Speaker 1 It was a ballooning

Speaker 1 accident.

Speaker 1 I appreciate it. No, okay.
Well, it said, I thought it said 37, but okay. 36.
36. But that is.

Speaker 2 And there's, by the way, still people that when I talk about it, they go, hey, tell Brolin I'm not fucking dead, man. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 I was was just laying low. It was, it was, yeah, it was the punk rock.

Speaker 2 It was punk rock. It was the

Speaker 2 heroin epidemic. It was all that.
A lot of people died.

Speaker 1 You, you, this stuck out to me.

Speaker 1 You were given your first motorcycle when you were four years old. Three and a half.

Speaker 1 I got bad news for you. No, Josh.

Speaker 1 Your birth certificate is wrong. You were four.

Speaker 1 I want this to be a recurring thing.

Speaker 2 I love that you're rewriting my book.

Speaker 1 I want this to be a recurring thing where every time Josh corrects me,

Speaker 1 I got bad news. I know.

Speaker 2 And by the way, you get mad. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You shoot back. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. Three and a half and you get a motorcycle?

Speaker 2 Three and a half.

Speaker 1 Why are you still here?

Speaker 2 An Indian 20. An Indian 20, you know, Indian 20.
I got, I was three and a half, and then two weeks later, I had him take off the training wheels. As you see in my face and all those things.

Speaker 1 Who sanctioned this?

Speaker 1 My dad. My dad.

Speaker 2 My dad, who doesn't ride motorcycles anymore and was never never very good i he he he fell at one point and really fucked up his ankle and and uh yeah but i i i rode my whole life i raced dirt bikes i got my eighties and i got and that that's where i was spoiled my dad always got me a motorcycle so i had probably five different motorcycles and you've done some crazy rides like through new zealand well then when i was 19 then i got into the kind of harley thing and then and then from 19 on so however many that years that is 19 19 to 56 and i ride with a group of guys now and we go 1200 mile poles and we go to chopper shows and stuff like that i have a 1937 knucklehead 1968 shovel head 1956 panhead 1947 knucklehead can ask you a very nerdy which is what about maintenance on those

Speaker 2 we're breaking down because we're vintage motorcycles yes that's so you have to ride with people who can fix them i'm i'm not good like admittedly not good i wish i was better but i ride steven You know, there's several people that we ride with that, you know, you'll see a transmission on a sidewalk.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I have full transmission.

Speaker 2 And we'll fix it.

Speaker 1 Whenever I get a chance, I try to ride a vintage motorcycle. And we were shooting something in

Speaker 1 Thailand, and they found this absolutely gorgeous vintage, I think it was a BMW.

Speaker 1 I could be incorrect about that, but it was, and it was like from the early 50s, and it was just this bike that you could drool drool over. I couldn't wait to get on it.

Speaker 1 I get on it, and my first feeling as I'm riding is, this is fucking terrible.

Speaker 1 Meaning the ride.

Speaker 2 I know what you mean.

Speaker 1 And also, if you don't keep the throttle just right, it's going to, it's going to conk out. Oh, yeah, we got it.

Speaker 1 The guy kept having to come out and kick it and take it apart and put it back together again. And I, it was.
It's been over you just to ride 50 feet. Just literally for 50 feet for the shot.

Speaker 1 And we have ended up getting the shot, and it looks amazing.

Speaker 1 But I kept thinking, this is why I

Speaker 1 no, I mean, there's I like it, I like an automatic transmitter.

Speaker 2 Like when you, when you see Hell's Angels or Mongols now, and they're all on nice bikes, they're all on new bikes.

Speaker 2 I mean, there's guys, true motorcyclists that I know that have super nice bikes that look at us and say, I could never do what you do. Cause it's too exposing.
It's too, it's just, yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, you break down, there's no front brake. There's sometimes not a back brake.
You know, if you're

Speaker 1 an anchor, you have to throw an anchor.

Speaker 1 Well, in 100 yards, I'm coming for a stop. Grab me, grab me, grab me.

Speaker 2 But that's why I think even now, and my older kids can attest to this, I have a 36-year-old, a 31-year-old, a six-year-old, and a three-year-old.

Speaker 2 And my older kids, my son's a great artist, and there's a lot of like electrical towers. And you go, oh, I know that's because he was in the back of the car looking out the window.

Speaker 2 Like we stayed in motels, we stayed in that. And I do the same thing now.
We make, I make it as uncomfortable as I can. We don't, this, I have an absolute like fear of living in nothing but comfort.

Speaker 2 Sorry for them, but it's just how it is.

Speaker 2 There's something, like I said, there's something substantial about the vintage Harley Davidsons where it's, I wrote about it in the book. They said, write about motorcycles.

Speaker 2 It's impossible to write about motorcycles. And I wrote and I wrote and I wrote and I kept crossing shit out.
And finally, I said, I can't do it.

Speaker 2 And the minute I said, I can't do it, it, I started riding.

Speaker 2 And then there was some connection with my mother and being in the back of the car with my mother and then riding motorcycles now and those connections and riding through a swarm of bees and all that.

Speaker 2 You go, that's the deal. The discomfort is the deal.

Speaker 2 If you can, if you have some resilience, I have a massive worry about a lack of resilience. Even with my kids, I look at my three-year-old.

Speaker 2 My three-year-old's literally the toughest person I know, my girl. She's just, you can see it in her face.
You're like, oh, you're 100% Brolin. You're going to be okay.

Speaker 2 We just got to keep you from going crazy. But there's this, again, it's character.
It's all the stuff that's colorful and lively that I embrace.

Speaker 1 The other thing that I used to say to my wife when our kids were little is, let's remember that it's important they be bored. Yes.
And

Speaker 1 because the culture now and the technology is such that there's never a moment where you are bored. And I remember being bored as a kid because.

Speaker 2 And having to resort to your imagination. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And you are, yeah, and and so I think, do you have that with your kids, Sona?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it is, it takes a lot of work to just remind yourself that it's okay if they're doing nothing, and then you see them start to resort to their imagination and you realize that's what they should be doing.

Speaker 1 Do you, I mean, because I sometimes see people that just give, they give their kid the screen

Speaker 1 and they say, Yeah, you're fine with the screen, I'm gonna go off, I'll be back in six weeks. No, no, man, no, we've, we've, we, we, I'm talking about Matt Gorley, yeah, Matt does that, but not me.

Speaker 1 He also gives him a little rum. Yeah.
Well, that part is true. Yeah.
Well, I mean, Matt and I both also have three-year-olds, too. I mean, it's

Speaker 1 a twin. I have twins.
He has one. Yeah.
Right. You have

Speaker 1 together.

Speaker 2 No, you got what I have.

Speaker 1 They're not together. I keep trying to get them together.
No, which is creepy. When they are together, I just won't acknowledge one of the things.

Speaker 2 No, I just saw you playing footsies underneath the table, and I thought there's something going on.

Speaker 1 They often just trade shoes underneath the table.

Speaker 2 So you each have three-year-olds.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Right. And we have a real pistol, too.
And I know you do as well. Yeah.
It's a girl. It's a girl and you are.
Mine are two boys. They're twins.
Two, two boys. Wow.
They're crazy.

Speaker 2 It's great, though. It is.
Even the irritation is great. I mean, there's time,

Speaker 2 there's a thing right now where they're both going through like a like when you get mad, it would be great if you lived in a different house. And I'm not even getting mad.

Speaker 2 I'm just like, please don't do that. You know, and they're like, can you live in a different house?

Speaker 1 And I'm like, fuck you, man.

Speaker 1 Like, they're so, I go, I looked, I looked at my three-year-old at one point, and I said, is there nothing

Speaker 2 about me that intimidates you? Yeah. And they just stare.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 But there's something my daughter's so passive-aggressive. You speak to her, hey, Glenn, we're going, and she'll go, we're listening.
Oh, God.

Speaker 1 That's the worst. It makes you crazy.
It does. And I'm going crazy.
I love that you have a little kid who stares at you with a brolin face and is like, hey, old man, keep walking. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Keep walking, old man.

Speaker 2 You don't even know the depths.

Speaker 1 I kind of do.

Speaker 2 No, but I'm saying she's saying that in her mind when she looks at me.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah,

Speaker 2 you're old now.

Speaker 2 We're the next generation, motherfucker.

Speaker 1 I'll bury you. Like, literally.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'll pour the dirt on you.

Speaker 2 I'm not afraid of many people in this lifetime, but my kids, definitely. My 31-year-old daughter, who's on tour, she just got off tour, music.
She was headlining all over the country.

Speaker 2 And she's one girl who I'm absolutely utterly in love with, but who scares the shit out of me. She's the, yeah, she's the first person in this life that actually scares me.

Speaker 1 Do you see it's a very personal question, but do you see your mom coming through in the spinning? For sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 For sure.

Speaker 2 In the best way, though, you know, my mom was spinning, man. And my mom, what I don't write about in the book, too, they go, God, your mom's sounds like a horrible.

Speaker 1 No, no, no. That is not what comes across as well.
I'm glad. Not at all.
Your mother has her.

Speaker 1 Your mother is an absolutely fascinating character. She is the thread.
She's the propulsion behind a lot of the book. She's clearly

Speaker 1 a huge propulsion for you through your life.

Speaker 1 And what you do very beautifully is you talk about her troubles, her struggles, decisions that today some people would question, but you also include a beautiful letter she writes to you about how proud you can, there is no doubt she loves you.

Speaker 1 There's no doubt she's proud of you. There's no doubt that she's like Zorba the Greek.
She is living every single second. That all comes through.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 There was a moment toward the end of her life, and I found like it was it in an Al-Anon book, and I still have it. And it had her name in the front that she wrote, hand wrote.

Speaker 2 And I know that there was a thing at the end. She had thought of, what's that show on right now? Chimps or something like that?

Speaker 1 Chimp Crazy.

Speaker 2 Chimp Crazy. And she had thought of a show 30 years ago about like a sitcom of chimps and people and doing it like animatronically or something like that because she was into the wildlife thing.

Speaker 2 And somebody took her seriously and said, I want you to develop that show. And she wasn't in the business or anything.

Speaker 2 It was just somebody that she knew and said, I want you to develop that show in a serious way. And I remember my mother crying.
And she said, I said, what's the matter?

Speaker 2 And she said, I've never been taken seriously. in my life.
So she was a freak show.

Speaker 2 And then you start living up to that freak show. And then interestingly, there's a guy, remember who it was? There was a guy who said, hey, my friend's coming.
He was Canadian.

Speaker 2 And he said, my friend's coming into town. Do you want to go out? And I said, sure.
And I went out and I had done something a couple of days before. So I like stopped drinking for a few days.

Speaker 2 And we went out. And he said, what can I get you? And I said, water's fine.
And he goes, what do you mean?

Speaker 2 And I go, I just take a water. I'm not drinking tonight.
And he goes, I brought my friend down from Canada.

Speaker 1 You know, I told her about you. And I go, what do you mean?

Speaker 2 And he said, you know, it's like, you're going to have a night. I told her that you're crazy.
And I was like, oh, I'm like, your fucking clown, man. Yeah.
I'm like, your thing.

Speaker 2 I'm like, you, you pay the $2. I have the two heads or I have the thing.
And you're going to experience a brolin moment, a brolin night. Yeah.

Speaker 2 He's going to go to jail and you're going to go home and go, how crazy is that guy? Right. And then you're going to go on with your life.
That was when I started to go, uh-oh.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, because my mom lived a life of that. And I saw right at the end when she was taken seriously at 55.

Speaker 2 And I'm 56.

Speaker 2 And strangely enough, this book was never intended to be this book. This book happened organically.
I just started writing. I'd look at my journals and I'd go, oh, that's, I remember that moment.

Speaker 2 And I start writing about it and poorly. And then this thing formulated into this, all these stories about my mom.
And you go, maybe that's, and it happened at 55. What a strange thing.

Speaker 1 Well, you know,

Speaker 1 it is, I can't recommend the book enough. And again,

Speaker 1 when I picked it up, I didn't know what I'd be discovering. And my big takeaway is you have lived for a

Speaker 1 still or a young man. You have lived an incredible life.
And

Speaker 1 your prose style is

Speaker 1 really striking and great and admirable. And that's something that

Speaker 1 hit me across the face is you are a very talented writer and you should write more.

Speaker 2 As a writer, you as a writer, I appreciate that very much. Seriously.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 I'm a very great writer. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. Wait, did I go the wrong way with that?

Speaker 1 Why can't you just make a moment normal? Just let it happen. Let him come on you and then just say thank you.

Speaker 2 You said, I'm a great, very great writer, which grammatically is so fucked up.

Speaker 1 It's the worst writing possible. It's the worst writing possible.

Speaker 1 Me be,

Speaker 1 I'm not done. Very great writer.

Speaker 1 Say thank you. Josh, every time I've encountered you

Speaker 1 in my life, other than when I used to run away from you on the street,

Speaker 1 I swear to God, you had a weapon.

Speaker 1 You were going through some bad shit at the time. But every time I've talked to you

Speaker 1 on one of my shows and today,

Speaker 1 you are.

Speaker 1 a

Speaker 1 very honest

Speaker 1 person who has paid attention in life and you're sharing what you've seen with people and you're very wise and you're hilariously funny and

Speaker 1 it's a joy. So thank you so much for being here.
Really? Yeah. Thanks for having me.
Yeah. And I'm going to come hang with you now for a couple of days if that's cool.

Speaker 2 That's fine.

Speaker 1 Crawl into bed, brother. Crawl into bed.
Snuggle up.

Speaker 1 Snuggle up.

Speaker 1 Amazon is known for its products, but I also really love their customer reviews. Yeah.

Speaker 1 This holiday season, Amazon is bringing the most creative and outrageous customer reviews into the spotlight as part of their Amazon five-star theater.

Speaker 1 Here's a review for the board game Twister. Angela writes, I bought this to play with my other late 20s, early 30s friends.
Our bodies were not prepared for the pain that ensued.

Speaker 1 When all of my extremities ended up on the same color, my body went into full spasm.

Speaker 1 This is harrowing. My arms turned to jelly and my spine broke in half.

Speaker 1 Finally, I fell slowly to the ground in frog pose. The torture was over.
If you're in basic shape and somewhat flexible, this is the game for you. Five stars.

Speaker 1 You know, it's very rare for someone to be doing something with a product and have their spine break in half and give it a five-star review. That is very rare.
Yeah. This person's a very good sport.

Speaker 1 Anyway, whatever you're looking for this holiday, find the perfect gift on Amazon.

Speaker 1 This message is brought to you by Square. Your favorite neighborhood spot runs on Square.
You've noticed these products, right? You go into a store, it looks like it's a pop-up or something.

Speaker 1 You think, how am I going to pay for this? And then they just whip out the Square. Yeah.
And you touch your card to it and you're done. So quick.
Neighborhood businesses aren't just storefronts.

Speaker 1 They're part of daily life. It's the first place you stop in the morning, right? It's probably where you get your mocha china

Speaker 1 or your nut-free drink. Thank you.
Allergic. Thank you for remembering.
They're the places you stop in without thinking, the spots that feel like, well, I'm going to say an extension of home.

Speaker 1 And so money spent locally, you know, is always good. It's nice.
Stays local, supporting the people who pour their energy back into the community.

Speaker 1 And when we show up as neighbors, it means real opportunity for the business owners who power it all.

Speaker 1 That's why Square partners with more than 4 million businesses around the world, from restaurants, salons, to boutiques, bakeries.

Speaker 1 Square gives them the tools to run smoothly, serve their customers, and grow with confidence. I like those little doodads.
That's what I call them. Doodads.

Speaker 1 You can go to square.com/slash go/slash Conan to learn more. But before you do, go support your favorite neighborhood spot.
You'll be happy you did. Square, I'll see you in the neighborhood.

Speaker 1 Adam Sachs, our wonderful overlord here at the podcast. He's a podcast genius.
He's the boy wonder. We owe him our thanks.
Great debt of gratitude. That's right.

Speaker 1 He alerted me of something on Reddit, and the title is, Is Conan's podcast using the dick, dork, and deer formula?

Speaker 1 I started wondering if Conan is using a classic radio TV construct known as the Dick, Dork, and Deere formula.

Speaker 1 For those unfamiliar, this is a common structure in big morning radio shows where the dick plays the antagonist, saying the bold or jerky things.

Speaker 1 The dork is quirky or socially awkward, creating funny friction.

Speaker 1 The deer is the heart of the show, keeping things grounded and often echoing what the audience is thinking. I have a theory.
We're using the dick, dick, and dick function.

Speaker 1 Because I think it switches on and off all the time.

Speaker 1 I don't think there is a deer here. You know what's amazing is that when you hear that,

Speaker 1 if I didn't know any better, I'd say, oh, that makes sense. I'm sure there is a format for these things.
People would be stunned by how little thought went into Conan O'Brien Needs Friend.

Speaker 1 That's true. It was Adam saying, Conan, you should do a podcast.
And I said, huh, well, if I do it, I better have Sona there because that's just, she's in my life.

Speaker 1 She's my assistant. And we seem to be really funny together.
And it's a real connection.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 they said, we need a dick. And they brought Matt Gorley in.
A professional dick. A professional dick.
You guys are both dorks and dicks. Yes.
You're both dork dicks. Yeah.
Yeah. Or dick dorks.

Speaker 1 I like dork dick. Decorks.

Speaker 1 Decork.

Speaker 1 We're corked dicks. Yeah.
Ready to blow. You are, though.
I mean, I think we are all definitely dicks. Yes.
I think it's.

Speaker 1 I think it's a different formula, but I think that is very interesting that that is a formula when I think about it now.

Speaker 1 And whatever we've come up with is random. This is a Jackson Pollock painting, except it wasn't even painted by Jackson Pollock.
There was a can of paint on the side of the road.

Speaker 1 It was painted by a dick. Yeah, a car ran over it and splorched a bunch of paint onto a canvas.
And that's what this is, for better and clearly worse. Yeah.
Right?

Speaker 1 Now, you weren't thinking anything like that, were you, Adam? Adam, you're allowed to jump in. Oh, here he comes.
He's just, he's unfamiliar with the format, so he's sitting 50 feet away.

Speaker 1 Is this mic on? Yep. The headphones are not on.
Okay, wow. So you're the podcast genius.

Speaker 1 Do I speak into this tube?

Speaker 1 No. The answer is no.
I definitely was not thinking that we would. I'd never heard of that Dick Dork deer thing either.

Speaker 1 I can see how it makes sense. But no, that wasn't the thought.
The thought was start with you. You actually said, like, you want some people around you.
You needed people to bounce off of.

Speaker 1 You can't just do this by yourself.

Speaker 1 Well, you could. It'd probably be better.
Well,

Speaker 1 you said that you didn't.

Speaker 1 No, what I said was I don't want it to be too good. Oh, so let's make sure that Sona's here and gorly.

Speaker 1 Remember, you know, like sort of like if something gets too hot, if a nuclear reactor gets too hot, they put in these rods to cool it. Yeah.
Of just sort of mediocre stuff. Dick dork.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 you're dick dorking at big time right now.

Speaker 1 You're doing a dick dork. No one knows

Speaker 1 better than you do. I'm being a dick, and I'm also explaining how a nuclear reactor works.
Well, we should give some credit to Jeff Ross, who never

Speaker 1 and not Jeff Ross,

Speaker 1 the Roastmaster General comic. Jeff Ross,

Speaker 1 my producer of 31 years. Yes, who 25 of them very capably.
He also identified the fact that you and Sona have a great thing and it's really funny. So we should have Sona there.

Speaker 1 And I had known Matt for many years at that point, worked with him for many years. And so when we said we wanted

Speaker 1 the best producer, in my mind, Matt's the best kind of thing. I'm going to confess something.

Speaker 1 You had me come into a meeting and Matt was there and we met. Yeah.
We got along great. And you said, well, Matt will be the producer.

Speaker 1 At the time, I thought that meant he was, I'm not, this isn't a bit or anything. I thought he was behind a glass case.
Me too. Producing it.
I had no idea that he'd be in the room with us. And

Speaker 1 when you were in the room with us and talking,

Speaker 1 I was, I was like, oh, I was surprised. For years, hated it.
Yeah. I mean, I got that sense.
Just years. No, no, I'm getting.
No, a surprise. And then immediately saw, oh, this is, no, this is great.

Speaker 1 This is a triangle. This is triangulation because you, I'm going to take a second and be legitimately nice to you.
You bring so much great stuff to the podcast and you think differently than I do.

Speaker 1 Not as quickly and not as.

Speaker 1 You're so close. Not as

Speaker 1 tall deer or just a little dork.

Speaker 1 Not as touched by the gods.

Speaker 1 Not kissed by the gods. But you do such an amazing job.
And so that was, but that was a complete surprise to me. Same with me me because I had no understanding that I was going to be on Mike.

Speaker 1 I was just supposed to come on and help develop the pilot. But I do remember one of the first times you engaged with me on Mike, and in true service to this thing, it was a question about Star Wars.

Speaker 1 And you turned to me and was like, what do you think of this? And I had this answer about the prequels or something. Because I didn't even know.
You just looked like someone.

Speaker 1 I think it was because you were dressed as a Jedi.

Speaker 1 And I mean, in a child's Jedi costume.

Speaker 1 The kind that ties around like an apron and just says Jedi on it.

Speaker 1 Not a good Jedi, not a cosplay Jedi, but an 11-year-old going out on Chris on a Halloween Jedi.

Speaker 1 But I did in the back of my mind think there was a world where Matt, like Matt would speak more, but the premise was that, yeah, you weren't going to talk. You were just going to be the producer.

Speaker 1 Like, got there to be a microphone out there where I was kind of like, why is there a microphone? Yeah, and I wanted there to be a microphone in front of you just in case.

Speaker 1 And for a while, I kept, if you remember this, easily the first 20 episodes, episodes, I was hiding your microphone. You were.
I'd come in early.

Speaker 1 I would, using a saw, I would saw it off. I know you didn't know they just come off.
I didn't know.

Speaker 1 You just duct tape my mouth.

Speaker 1 That was harder because you're quick. You're very quick.
But then

Speaker 1 Blai comes, stumbles in. Blai is like, if you're at a campsite and you don't put your food away, Blai will show up.

Speaker 1 So Blais stumbled in and

Speaker 1 you know, he was like,

Speaker 1 like outside the tent. And then he started saying things.
we thought, okay, we'll blaze here. And then Eduardo.
Now, Eduardo designed the studio.

Speaker 1 Eduardo is the one here who actually knows things.

Speaker 1 He actually has skill. He's trained.
He's talented. And you actually, Matt, you have some actual real-world abilities in editing.
I don't do anything. Sona, Jesus.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 But you know the way light can't escape a black hole? I mean, just you

Speaker 1 don't do anything, and it's amazing. It's absolutely amazing.
Does it infuriate you a little bit?

Speaker 1 I love it. Okay, I'm cool.
I love it. I love it.

Speaker 1 You're right. You are the best at doing nothing.
Like, you've turned it into an artist. You're not only an artist.

Speaker 1 You're right. You're just always been Sona, and it's amazing.
Don't change a thing. Okay.
But that's also an insult. Shit.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 But no, I mean, Eduardo is the one who

Speaker 1 designed the studio,

Speaker 1 just makes this whole thing hum. You're the maestro.
You deserve so much better for me, except you have to take the occasional shot because you're a human being in the room with me. That's fair.

Speaker 1 And you have to absorb some of the hate that was crystallized. in Brookline, Massachusetts in the 60s.
This is going to sound corny. I can't take credit for hardly any of it.

Speaker 1 I just do what you guys allow me to do. So, you know, I hated that.

Speaker 1 He's a deer.

Speaker 1 That's the deer right there. There's three deers over there.
I knew you were going to give me shit for it, but I have to. Should we be more like those?

Speaker 1 Fuck you. Okay.
Oh, you're going to do the dick part? Also, we don't have sound effects, and I think all those shows have like a wah-uh-wah-uh-wah-uh.

Speaker 1 And then fake fart noises and stuff.

Speaker 1 Yeah. We use real farts here.
We don't use fake fart noises. We can't afford it.
We couldn't figure that out. We have a fart mic.

Speaker 1 Fart mic sona's always carbo loading before

Speaker 1 every episode gets 900 pounds cans of beans give me some beans give me some beans

Speaker 1 and then eduardo's always like you know there is a fart sound effect it's literally on this board so it's like that sucks yeah we

Speaker 1 give me the fart mic

Speaker 1 there's just one we have to pass around or are we individually mic? Okay, I'm calling it. No, there's one fart, Mike.

Speaker 1 Okay, and then when you feel it, you give a look, and then someone's like, it's fart time. Maybe we say it's fart time.

Speaker 1 Sona, to your credit, you're always ready to go when you feel it.

Speaker 1 Sona's always ready to go. I prepare.

Speaker 1 You are money in the bank. Yes, I do.
Yes, I am. I want to wrap this up, but that's the origin story of how.

Speaker 1 Oh, God.

Speaker 1 That was so.

Speaker 1 That sounded like wet corduroy ripping. I know.
That did not sound.

Speaker 1 What is it? That was like a lung being pulled out of someone's chest, Eduardo. Different type of farts.
What was that?

Speaker 1 That is not like anything I've ever heard before. Someone falling in the trash compactor.
That was Aquaman farts.

Speaker 1 Ew.

Speaker 1 All right. All right.

Speaker 1 Funny farts and the wet farts are not that funny. The first, the

Speaker 1 wet one was what that one was funny. This is weird.
I know comedy.

Speaker 1 We really have turned into a radio drivetime show. This is all right.
Well, avoid the 405.

Speaker 1 Avoid the 405, and we'll be back with the whack pack

Speaker 1 right here on Z5535. Baby Baby Boo!

Speaker 1 Hit the fart.

Speaker 1 Jesus. So pathetic.
That's just a dead person. That person's been dead for six weeks.

Speaker 1 But we're all laughing at the fart. Farts are always funny.
No, never funny. Oh, God.

Speaker 1 Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam Obsession, and Matt Gorley. Produced by me, Matt Gorley.
Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Frost, and Nick Liao.

Speaker 1 Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
Take it away, Jimmy.

Speaker 1 Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and Mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns.

Speaker 1 Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent Booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn.

Speaker 1 You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Cocoa Hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message.

Speaker 1 It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at seriousxm.com/slash Conan.

Speaker 1 And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

Speaker 1 Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena, and I'm Ash, and we are the host of Morbid Podcast. Each week, we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

Speaker 1 From infamous killers and unsolved mysteries to haunted places and strange legends, we cover it all with research, empathy, humor, and a few creative expletives.

Speaker 1 It's smart, it's spooky, and it's just the right amount of weird. Two new episodes drop every week, and there's even a bonus once a month.
Find us wherever you listen to podcasts. Yay! Woo!

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