Jason Bateman

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Speaker 2 Hi, my name is Jason Bateman, and I feel

Speaker 2 pretty good about being Conan O'Brien's friend.

Speaker 1 Wait a minute, you said you worked on this answer.

Speaker 2 I know, but then I said I got nothing.

Speaker 1 Pretty good? How? With a dramatic pause before him?

Speaker 1 Fall is here, hear the yell. Back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walk in blues, climb the fence, books and pens.
I can tell that we are gonna be friends.

Speaker 1 Yes, I can tell that we are gonna be friends.

Speaker 1 Hey there, it's Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. I am Conan O'Brien, and I'm joined here.
It is an intro. Yeah.

Speaker 3 What is your problem? I didn't know what we were doing.

Speaker 1 Okay, well, that's part of the course. Okay.
No, we're not changing anything. We're keeping it in.
Gorley will cut this out. No.
Yeah. Gorley, keep it in.
It's too good.

Speaker 4 Well, torn between two parents.

Speaker 1 All right, I'll start again. My guest today.
Oh, sorry.

Speaker 1 Now you got to keep it in. Hello.

Speaker 1 Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Hey there. Welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend.
I don't know why I'm talking like the old movie phone guy. I'm Conan O'Brien joined by Sonoma Ossessian, Matt Gorley.
And

Speaker 1 I was disheartened to learn, Sona, last week that the jacket that for years I've made fun of, because you wore it all the time.

Speaker 1 Just constantly. Constantly.
I mean, you wore it at your wedding. It was ridiculous.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you wore it all the time, every day. Do you agree that you wore it a lot?

Speaker 3 I wore it so much, the lining was ripping.

Speaker 1 And so it was a little bit of a thing where I would make fun of the jacket and was kind of like a fun hee-hee-ha-ha. And then I found out on last week's episode, just joking around

Speaker 1 that your jacket was lost

Speaker 1 when your house caught fire. Right.
Which I didn't know. And I expressed real surprise because I couldn't imagine.
that jacket not being with you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But you said it was in the house and so it's gone.

Speaker 3 It's gone.

Speaker 3 It was in the house. I did wear it a lot.
It was my favorite. I felt like, but the Fonz wears his jacket all the time.
Like, there's cool people who wear the same jacket.

Speaker 1 That's a television character. They're legally required to wear it.
Deanna Jones. Yeah, they have to wear the same thing.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but like, isn't it cool?

Speaker 1 It was not. I think so.
No, it wasn't good every day. And I offered to buy you other jackets.
Remember?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I know, but I didn't, I don't need other jackets.

Speaker 1 I had a jacket I like. Well, now you need a jacket.

Speaker 3 Well, so I looked and they still sell my jacket.

Speaker 1 They do?

Speaker 3 They do. They still, it was like, I think I bought it like maybe 10 years ago, but it's like kind of a staple for the brand.

Speaker 1 I think it's more than 10 years ago because. No, because you started working with me like 15, 16 years ago.

Speaker 3 I bought it.

Speaker 1 And you had the jacket then.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And it was a splurge for me.
So I thought myself, okay, if I wear it enough, it'll justify how much I spent on it. And so that's why, like, that's part of the reason why I you wore it so much.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 anyway, they still have it.

Speaker 1 They still have the jacket. They do.
Would you want to replace it? I will pay for this jacket if it doesn't go above a certain amount.

Speaker 3 If I do buy another one, are you going to make fun of me?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 So you're paying for the right because you've now lost the right to make fun of her.

Speaker 1 We had a fun thing going where I could come up with all these different riffs about the jacket. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the jacket tragically lost. The riff was lost.
The joke was lost. I understand that.
That's what I think of. I think it's a little bit of a.

Speaker 1 Can I represent you here? Yeah, please. Will you give her the cash value?

Speaker 1 No, I want the. No, absolutely not.
No, she's got it. I'm just cold-hearted.
Well, I'm sorry. I'm a businessman.

Speaker 3 Is that as far as you have?

Speaker 1 That's all you had?

Speaker 1 He's a lawyer caster. I'm not a lawyer.
He's a lawyer who just.

Speaker 1 Oh, I understand. And then immediately

Speaker 1 he closed his briefcase. He folded up the table he was sitting at, and he jumped out the window.

Speaker 1 My work here is done. Well, my work here is done.
Out in the window. Matinee at the Bijou, I've got to catch.

Speaker 3 I really thought you were going to go in on him.

Speaker 1 No, no.

Speaker 1 I will not do the cash value. I want you to have the same jacket because I want you to have that jacket back.
Let me see it. Let me bring up that picture.
Okay. Because I don't remember this jacket.

Speaker 1 You don't remember it. It's the only thing she wore.

Speaker 3 It looks so much like that.

Speaker 1 And that's like me saying I don't remember your puzzled expression.

Speaker 3 Look how cool That was a cool jacket.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's like a proper, it's like a biker's jacket. Oh, it's these.
It's this, this is the part that I thought was very General Zaya's Planet of the Apes. You know, yeah, that tail.
Dr. Zaya.

Speaker 1 Oh, right. That's like.

Speaker 3 I don't know if I need that anymore.

Speaker 1 No, you got to have that. It was like a quilted leather cross hatch.
Yeah, yeah. That was the part that really bothered me.

Speaker 1 But I want you to get that exact same jacket. They still sell it?

Speaker 3 They do. What's the price?

Speaker 1 It's the Terminator jacket, basically. Is it? It's kind of.
I didn't, I don't know.

Speaker 3 No, the Terminator wears like a normal motorcycle jacket, doesn't it?

Speaker 1 That's kind of what that is.

Speaker 3 There's other jackets that don't have that detail on it.

Speaker 1 All right, let's get into more profitable territory because you guys are going into the weeds here, and it's my job. Let me help you.
Is that your final offer?

Speaker 1 What, uh, how much is this?

Speaker 3 I'm scared to say it because it's, I do want to say it. I did splurge on this.

Speaker 1 Let me say it. Let me say it.

Speaker 3 It's $5.50.

Speaker 1 I spent that on lunch. Okay.

Speaker 1 I order $550 worth of fresh Alaskan crab every day,

Speaker 1 and I eat it off the small of my head writer's back.

Speaker 1 Why? Yeah,

Speaker 1 Mike Sweeney has to get on all fours. I ladle out this crab that's been shipped in

Speaker 1 in a private plane.

Speaker 1 And I ladle it onto his small back, and then I eat it with a tiny little silver spoon.

Speaker 1 So anyway, yes, buy you. I will buy you that jacket.

Speaker 1 I will buy you that jacket. No, that would actually, I'm not kidding.
It would mean a lot to me to replace that thing that's been lost. It would also mean a lot to me to keep making fun of you.

Speaker 3 I know, that's what I know. I know.

Speaker 1 I'm buying you that jacket. It's a done deal.
Okay, so you ordered it up. I brokered the deal.
Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah, welcome. You were a key in this whole matter.
Yeah, you're really

Speaker 1 $50,000. No, no, no.
Seriously, Sona, order the jacket. I don't know.
And do that. No, no.

Speaker 1 This doesn't work if you don't do it. You've got to order the jacket.
Yeah. Because the jacket was lost.
To be serious for just a second. Yeah.

Speaker 1 The jacket was lost in the fire. Yeah.
Let's replace it. Okay.
And now I'll represent you. He'll buy it, but you have to bring it in and we do a segment about it.
I will. I'll bring it in.

Speaker 1 I will definitely bring it in because I'm going to wear it probably all the time. So buy the jacket and

Speaker 1 don't have me reimburse you. I have to buy the jacket.
I have your credit card. I know you do.
What? Yeah. She has my credit card.
Why aren't we living high on the hog? What is is

Speaker 1 she's actually done okay for herself?

Speaker 1 She there have been many times where Sona. How much?

Speaker 1 How many drinks do you think you've had on old Uncle Konzi without Uncle Konzi even knowing it over the years? Without you even knowing it before you even became a responsible member of society.

Speaker 1 Quite a bit. Yeah.
I love it. Quite a bit.
I love it.

Speaker 3 But I think it's also the least you could do for me.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So you're welcome.
It was always showed up on my Emex statements as least I could do.

Speaker 1 Least you could do for Sona. And they would be like, oh my God,

Speaker 1 you dropped $1,800 at a bar.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so we're done. It's a done deal now.

Speaker 1 You're getting that jacket.

Speaker 1 I will pay for it. You will wear it.
And that is my way of

Speaker 1 making all of your loss go away. Jesus Christ.
Does that cover it? The one leather jacket? Sure. You lost in your house.

Speaker 3 Yeah, the one leather jacket.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Too bad he didn't make fun of your house.

Speaker 1 That house is no house. All right.
Let's get into it. My guest today, Stardian Arrest Development, now co-hosts the popular podcast Smartless alongside my archenemies, Will Arnett and Sean Hayes.

Speaker 1 I am very thrilled that this gentleman is joining us today. This is his first time.
This is very cool. I bullied him into coming here.

Speaker 1 Jason Bateman, welcome.

Speaker 2 You know, the question is, are you Conan O'Brien's friend if you aren't invited to his Christmas party? And, you know, there's so many strangers.

Speaker 2 Hundreds of people.

Speaker 1 We've straightened this out.

Speaker 1 No, thousands are invited to the Christmas party. I invite thousands and about 50 come.
Listen, we're going to just, because this has been a thing. And then I went on SmartList recently,

Speaker 1 you know, about you coming to the Christmas party. And it was a thing for a while.

Speaker 1 You claim you weren't invited.

Speaker 2 I was shocked that there was a Christmas party, that a Christmas party had been going on for years.

Speaker 1 But you were, I think you were shocked that Christmas was celebrated

Speaker 1 because you're such a Grinch.

Speaker 2 That Christmas had something to do with your Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 I was like.

Speaker 1 Well, listen, the point is, you, you know, let's talk about Smartlists. It's a juggernaut.
You guys are.

Speaker 2 It's a pretty hard pivot.

Speaker 1 It's a real, I mean, I was a four-wheel slot. Can I tell you something? Right?

Speaker 1 I just broke my hip pivoting.

Speaker 1 But no, the point I'm trying to make is of you three guys,

Speaker 1 you got Will Arnett, you got Sean, is it Hayes?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think it's H-A-Z-E.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And then you're Jason Bateman. Bateman.
Okay, there's the three of you, and you're the one. that I have trouble getting a beat on.
I got to say. You're the one, you're squirrely.

Speaker 1 You're squirrely, Bateman. I've always had a problem getting a beat on you.
A huge fan of yours. I adore you, but I can't get a beat on the guy.
I can't.

Speaker 2 Because you can sense that I'm not sure why I'm there. And I don't really, I'm not really sure if I,

Speaker 1 I don't get it.

Speaker 2 I don't understand why people listen to it. I get that.
Will and Sean are appealing fellas. That's why they're two of my best friends.

Speaker 2 And we're not doing anything more than just the drivel that happens when we're in a car together or at a dinner or how I just don't think that that's monetizable. Right.

Speaker 2 That you should ask for people's attention to listen to that. Yep.

Speaker 1 That you should

Speaker 1 monetize. I agree with it about your podcast.
I agree because I've checked it out and I'm like, I can't believe that this is something people, I mean, this, what we're doing here.

Speaker 2 You've got a full, you've got an array of talent here.

Speaker 1 And you can't put my glasses on.

Speaker 1 Even we disagree with with that. You've done some prep, right?

Speaker 2 I can see questions there.

Speaker 1 No, no, this is your medical history.

Speaker 1 You've got a handsome studio.

Speaker 2 You've got cameras around. This is very professional.

Speaker 1 Yeah, also.

Speaker 2 We're on a Zoom.

Speaker 1 Also, can I just point out, I've been interviewing people around the clock since 1993. I'm a seasoned professional.
Exactly. What Muhammad Ali was to boxing, I am to interviewing.

Speaker 2 Cut all this off. Yeah, I will.

Speaker 1 You need lifts.

Speaker 1 but you, yeah, you guys with this uh, you know, RNA,

Speaker 2 but but in in yes, but so I think Will, at least Will has just sharp dagger humor,

Speaker 2 he's got a darkness that's fun to follow, yes, a voice that's not bad to listen to.

Speaker 1 No, I buy whatever truck he's selling, right? Yeah, I mean, as long as it's professional grade, yeah, he's he's

Speaker 2 he's got he's got an opinion and he'll let you know it.

Speaker 2 Sean P. Hayes is sure, is just pure sunshine and

Speaker 2 is curious and is warm.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 I'm trying to find the lane that I'm supposed to be in, which is the area in between those two, which I guess is just sort of listening and asking questions that I think the normal guy wants to know.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You know? Yeah.
And so I feel I'm easily replaceable.

Speaker 1 Yes, yes. I was going to say the same thing.

Speaker 1 I was going to say, I'm glad you said it.

Speaker 1 No, no, you know, I think you could come, you could go. Right.

Speaker 2 You know, which is kind of what I do in whatever the hell I do on camera, too. I'm trying to just kind of be us.

Speaker 1 Okay. I'm going to draw a parallel to what I maintain, and I've said this to Mr.
Arnett many times, is one of the finest comedy television shows of all time.

Speaker 1 And I take this stuff, as you know, very seriously, my television comedy loves and my interests. I think arrested development is one of the finest, finest

Speaker 1 pieces of work done in television comedy. And I think that you are hilarious and essential in that show because...

Speaker 2 I'm surrounded with funny folks.

Speaker 1 No, you're missing.

Speaker 1 But that's not it. You're not just the guy who's yes anding all of the funny people.
You're doing it in a hilarious way. You're taking it all in.
You're trying to understand.

Speaker 1 You do a beautiful job in that show. As being our proxy, right?

Speaker 2 Like, if somebody says something wacky, you've got someone you can turn to

Speaker 2 and give a ground to bounce off of, right? I mean, like, there's nothing funny about Martians on Mars. I'm like, I'm Earth, and they're the Martians, and now there's something that's popping, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, but that is a very hard thing to do. It's in the history of comedy, straight men were always listed first.

Speaker 1 So it was Martin and Lewis. It was Abbott and Costello.
And it was because a good straight man was actually harder to find than a good wacky person.

Speaker 1 And that is the history of comedy, is that the

Speaker 1 act was controlled by the straight men, Burns and Allen.

Speaker 1 It was always controlled by the straight man who was, it was, it was a skill that was seen as more appreciated. So, without getting too heavy, too serious, which I've probably done, I thought you did

Speaker 1 an absolutely stellar, remarkable job on that show. Thank you, sir.
And you're underselling yourself when they say,

Speaker 2 I'm just looking to get you

Speaker 2 to continue talking

Speaker 2 in a flattering way about me. I'm trying to continue to tee you up.

Speaker 1 I'm just, you know, so I'm not really sure what you explain.

Speaker 1 I was so confused.

Speaker 1 What you did. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like Picasso.

Speaker 1 No, you know what's really nice?

Speaker 1 It's been, I've told this to Arnett a million times, but that show was a very key bonding element for my son and I because my son has a very keen eye for comedy and really liked certain shows.

Speaker 1 And when he discovered arrested development, that was it.

Speaker 2 How old was he when it started to kind of work for him?

Speaker 1 He was in his late 50s. Yeah.
He was 58. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I had him a long time ago.

Speaker 2 You look great, by the way.

Speaker 1 I've had so much done to me and for me.

Speaker 1 No, I want to say he was, I want to say he was 11, 12,

Speaker 1 and chapter and verse.

Speaker 1 There's not an episode I can name. And we've watched them repeatedly.
So sometimes when he's blue or we'd be somewhere, it would be, okay, there are certain specific episodes that we would watch.

Speaker 2 It was the medicine.

Speaker 1 Just was the medicine. Yeah.
And it's nice because we all knew what's coming because we've seen them a thousand times.

Speaker 2 And I bet is he, how old is he now?

Speaker 1 He is 19. Yeah, I'll bet.

Speaker 2 I bet if you watched him again, that you'd see, I still see stuff. You know, like I've been seeing it for a few years, but I saw a clip of something.

Speaker 2 I was just like, it's just kind of noticing, you know, like Mitch, Mitch Hurwitz, who's the reason the whole thing is so funny. He just has

Speaker 2 sort of this appetite for humor that exists on more than

Speaker 2 even the standard two levels. Like he's not even happy if it doesn't work on like four or five levels.

Speaker 2 And so the older you get or the more jaded you get or whatever, you start to see like level four and five or whatever the hell it would be.

Speaker 2 To the point where, I mean, me personally, I started to, I started to just think it was

Speaker 2 it was a little it was too confusing for my little bird brain towards the end there. Like there were just layers layers on layers.

Speaker 2 He would have to come to the set and explain to us, me particularly,

Speaker 2 what the relevance of this line was or this scene was. And sometimes it was because certain scripts weren't available, which paid off what I was trying to either establish

Speaker 2 through some of this exposition, because I was usually the exposition guy, or I was the guy that had to give a knowing look signifying relevance about something that was a little opaque.

Speaker 2 So, like, I would need to know what that means to dial in whatever the hell that look would be.

Speaker 2 And so, he would need to come down and sort of like decipher things for me and go, Oh, you need to, you need to raise an eyebrow there because that the reason that she said eggplant instead of cashew is because of, you know, like you got to read, like, that's that's going to mean something to you, you know, anyway.

Speaker 1 Can't you just give the same knowing look every time?

Speaker 1 No, I'm not an I'm not an actor, but and maybe there's a reason I'm not an actor, but I would just every single time go, ooh, and just leave it up to the editor to

Speaker 1 slot it in there right at the right time. Fix it or use some CGI or do something, but you're getting one oh from me and then I'm out the door.
I wouldn't take that from Mitch Hurwitz.

Speaker 2 Not for a second. I know.
We almost did the movie for a long time. Remember all that talk? Do you remember that talk?

Speaker 1 Yes, I do remember the movie.

Speaker 2 I was so excited about that. I thought, oh my God, we're going to do it.
And then Matt, I remember Matt Damon coming up to me at, I think it was like a Golden Globes or something.

Speaker 2 And I was so excited to meet him. And he was like, hey, he was a huge fan of arrested development.
And he was saying, you know, I really think I could play, because I hear you guys are doing that.

Speaker 2 I think I could, can I, can I do you? Can I play?

Speaker 1 It was just like, what?

Speaker 2 I was like, oh my God. Like, I went right back to Mitch.
I said, this thing is moving. You know, like, come on.
Wait a minute.

Speaker 1 Why can't you beat you?

Speaker 1 Just because, and is everybody getting recast?

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 I love that there'd be an arrested development movie movie and all of you would be recast with real actors.

Speaker 2 Well, that was the sort of the story that Mitch was thinking the story of the Arrested Development movie would be that in the show, Hollywood wanted to make a movie about us. And so we

Speaker 2 certainly couldn't play ourselves because we're not actors.

Speaker 1 But you'd still get to be yourselves, but yes.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So like, yeah, I would be, Michael Bluth would be on set watching Matt Damon play Michael Bluth and be so excited. Of course, David Cross would play Tobias in the film as well because he was an actor.

Speaker 1 Tobias was an actor.

Speaker 2 And I think Arnett was pretty close to getting Farrell to play Job. And it would have been pretty cool.

Speaker 1 It could still happen.

Speaker 2 No, I don't think anybody gives a shit.

Speaker 1 I think they do. I think it's done.
I think one call from me and it's happening.

Speaker 1 When I say call, I mean on an old 1940s phone because I'm so out of touch with what kind of pull I have in this town.

Speaker 2 Your son would be the only guy in the theater.

Speaker 1 That's not true.

Speaker 1 Tons of fans, at least nine fans.

Speaker 1 Ashley believes that your home should be an expression of who you are. Sona,

Speaker 1 you've been working with Ashley recently. Care to tell us?

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, I'm an interior decorator now.

Speaker 1 You know what? I do think you have good style. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, Ashley makes it very easy. Okay.
And then, you know, recently,

Speaker 3 sadly, we lost our house and we were living with my parents for four and a half months and my kids trashed the place. So my parents, we got them this dining set.
It's really pretty.

Speaker 1 First of all, they look pretty durable, but they are. But your kids are, you know, they're very good at destroying things.

Speaker 3 They are. And they can't even destroy things.

Speaker 1 Why do you let your children have saws and hammers? It just feels like a mistake. I know.

Speaker 1 But that's beautiful. That's gorgeous.

Speaker 3 Yeah, they love it. It was really easy.
And because I'm an interior decorator, I also helped Blai with what he really badly needed, some new furniture.

Speaker 1 Trust me, all of Blais' furniture was just old action figures duct taped together. That's right.
Into crude furniture shapes. Yeah, not comfortable at all.
Yeah. Extra poking you and everything.

Speaker 1 You'd be like, attack, attack.

Speaker 1 But thanks to Sona, she got me this fantastic sectional. Oh, look at that.

Speaker 1 Which is amazing. And due to Ashley's white glove delivery, came right to my door.
And really, it is the nicest thing in my apartment. Yeah.
It's really great. I mean, you don't have to convince this.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we all do this.

Speaker 1 Very nice looking sectional. I'm telling you, you've got to believe me.
All right. Shop the season with Ashley to make your home merry and bright before the holidays.

Speaker 1 Visit your local Ashley store or head to ashley.com to find your style.

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Speaker 1 There's one image I have in my head, which is Will Arnett is trying to sneak in Jeffrey Tambour

Speaker 1 in a stretch limo. And of course, he has his stupid puppet, Franklin, with him,

Speaker 1 who isn't doing today, or maybe racially insensitive puppet. But

Speaker 1 at one point, there's this second where you you think the guard's not going to let him in, that the guard's been offended by this puppet.

Speaker 1 And then the guard says, Go, and the guard says, Wait a minute. You're all going to have to step out of the car.
And there is a zoom, and there's a zoom in on a terrified Arnett.

Speaker 1 There's a zoom on a terrified in the back seat, Jeffrey Tampore, and then a zoom in on the ventriloquist dummy, Franklin. And I think I've watched that with my son 75 times.

Speaker 1 And it's just, I've memorized it. It's been,

Speaker 1 I don't know, it's, uh, it's, it just fills me with delight over and over and over again.

Speaker 1 So that's, that's, I mean, to a larger point, you've had with Smartless, uh, Arrest Development, Ozark, you've been able to play in this very rich environment and have this crazy success. And

Speaker 1 there, every now and then, I get to talk to people on this podcast who sort of have, they got to have their cake and eat it too.

Speaker 1 And you're one of those people who I think has had this lovely arc where you start as a child actor, which is not a promising start for many people.

Speaker 1 And it really doesn't work to the point where there have been times where I thought, should they just make it illegal to be a child actor?

Speaker 2 Or force them to go into secondary education.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Like, you know, I didn't even, I didn't.
How old were you when you got your first? You did a serial commercial when you're 10? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, it was a very tangible, I don't remember a lot, but I do remember being

Speaker 2 really filled with anxiety about being able to continue to make a living in a business that

Speaker 2 I was pretty aware that it was tenuous at best, you know, that it was

Speaker 1 fickle. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Even as a kid, you're, I think you did Little House on the Prairie, some commercials. You're on Silver Spoons.

Speaker 1 I could see kids having two reactions to that. One, oh, I've landed in Candyland.
I'm in Oz. This is just amazing.

Speaker 1 But you had the emotional intelligence to be anxious about it and think, I don't know if this is going anywhere. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, and I apologize to any listeners that have heard me twat on about this before, but

Speaker 2 it was, you know, my parents were my managers. And they were making more money doing that than what they were.
My mom was a flight attendant for Pan Am.

Speaker 2 My dad was a freelance writer, director, producer.

Speaker 2 And, you know, 15% of what I was making at that time just ended up being more than what they were making in their, in their careers. And so it became an important

Speaker 2 component to our, our, our nut, our overhead. Like we were living in a certain condo that we wouldn't be able to live in if they were just, you know, using their salaries.
And so

Speaker 2 a work permit, you need a work permit to work as a little kid before you're 18. And that work permit is renewed every six months based on you maintaining a C average in school.

Speaker 2 And so the pressure on midterms and finals

Speaker 2 every year was immense for me because it was, you know, 60% of your grade.

Speaker 2 And so studying for those and making the, and if I, so if I fail a midterm, I don't get my work permit, which means I'm kicked off the show, which means everyone on the show loses their job.

Speaker 2 We lose our house.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 plus I was also seeing just the churn of folks that were

Speaker 2 hosting Saturday Night Live one week, and then a year later, you just never hear from them, or maybe even a few months. So like I was, I was aware, I was consuming pop culture.

Speaker 2 So all of these sort of touch points of adult responsibility were really tangible for me.

Speaker 2 Which is curious then why I didn't get my high school diploma. I didn't go to college.
I just doubled down.

Speaker 2 And thankfully, I was still doing a show till I was about 21, 22, I think, called The Hogan Family. This was after Silver Spoons, after It's Your Move.
And then

Speaker 2 when that ended, then there was like this, this, this arid plane of my 20s of employment.

Speaker 2 Like I'd get one job a year and I'd kind of keep my head above water, but there was no cash cushion whatsoever because I was trying to catch up for all the time I'd lost being a kid too.

Speaker 2 So I was playing really hard in my 20s and I'm flying all over the place and paying for my friends' tickets. And, you know, so

Speaker 2 I didn't have a lot of money at all. In fact, I was in debt by the time I was in my 30s by the time Arrested Development came around.
And I was really thinking at that point.

Speaker 2 So the acting thing isn't going to work for me anymore. Kind of like used goods.

Speaker 2 Television comedy was going in the direction of single camera comedy. I was known for multi-camera comedy, you know, in front of a live audience.

Speaker 2 And so I was kind of, I was just kind of damaged, you know, and especially when I heard heard about Arrested Development, like here's a single camera comedy and it's kind of a mockumentary and it's Ron Howard's behind it.

Speaker 2 And like, they don't want my garbage on that, but managed to guess right and get that job and it was embraced by the industry and it was that huge reset button for me.

Speaker 2 But prior to that, I had really, really was that my 20s were

Speaker 2 not a comfortable period. I was really petrified about being able to support myself and have the rest of my career not be anticlimactic.

Speaker 2 I thought about liquidating what little I did have, literally cashing out and literally putting what cash I had in a duffel bag, driving to the Bradley terminal at LAX, looking up on that board, picking a city

Speaker 2 and going and

Speaker 2 just kind of unplugging from this kind of

Speaker 2 not rat race, but competition, this, you know, every night's entertainment tonight. Who's doing great? You know, who's on your show? You know, like, and I wasn't and I had been.

Speaker 2 And so I thought, well, I don't want to continue playing at a game that I'm going to be, you know, losing every single year.

Speaker 2 So why don't I go to like Tuscany and learn fucking, you know, Italian, French, whatever, buy a coffee shop and just start over at the age of 25.

Speaker 2 I don't have a wife, don't have kids, have a bunch of friends, but let's go drink into more of those in Europe. Right.

Speaker 2 You know, so it was, it was, I was very, very, getting it back to arrest development. That was a total paddles on the chest for me.

Speaker 1 Do you ever think you blew it that maybe you should have done that? Guns? Yeah, exactly. No, but I mean, I'm just seriously, this coffee shop thing.

Speaker 1 Sounds nice. It sounds like a good cost.

Speaker 1 It sounds really nice. Yeah.
You know, well, whatever. Le Starbex.

Speaker 1 Can't go back, I guess. Can't go back.

Speaker 1 It's funny that you talk about that period of time.

Speaker 1 There's,

Speaker 1 I had my own experience working on the late night show. We were constantly doing sketches and we would employ, there would be a sketch that needed, you know, a kid to play me, you know,

Speaker 1 from 20 years ago, constantly, or a kid who is in the audience, who doesn't understand something, constantly doing these sketches where we need kids.

Speaker 1 I remember very clearly sometimes there were kids that came up to me, maybe eight years old. This happened more than once, but they would come up to me and go, excuse me, me, Mr.
Brian, I am Billy.

Speaker 1 Oh, hi, Billy. You know, thanks for helping us out today.
You're doing a great job at rehearsal. I just want to say you are a formidable talent.

Speaker 1 And I could look in the background and see the mother peering out of the dressing room like, it's formidable. We went over this.

Speaker 2 Say it.

Speaker 1 You know, say it so that you're booked again, you fucker.

Speaker 1 And I was, it bummed me out. Seriously,

Speaker 1 every now and then, one of those child child actors, one was a little kid who nailed it and turned it, grew up into Scarlett Johansen.

Speaker 1 And you're like, okay, that's great.

Speaker 1 I think we had one or two of those, but for the most part,

Speaker 1 it is a perilous thing to be a child actor. And, you know, it's so fickle.
And even as adults, full-on aging adults for myself,

Speaker 1 it's still hard not to pay attention to who's up, who's down, who's where. It takes, and that's with, I didn't have anybody recognize me on the street until I was 30 years old.

Speaker 1 That's when I got the late night show.

Speaker 1 And I had a lot of grounding before then. So I have no idea.
I think if I had been recognized or had any kind of cachet when I was 11 years old, I'd be a mass murderer. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And a very good one. Yeah.
Methodical.

Speaker 2 It is a very permissive culture that if you have some sort of success as a kid, you kind of get used to.

Speaker 2 It's like it's junk food. And kids don't have any self-control for junk food.
They eat it all up.

Speaker 2 And you're also learning

Speaker 2 how to convincingly be somebody else at the exact time you're trying to figure out who you are. So it's just a big mind fuck, too.
And it is a big, it's a minefield to go through.

Speaker 2 And I'm really fortunate that somehow my sort of, you know, stock engine came out able to kind of navigate that, you know, somewhat decently. I mean, I am nuts.
I'm crazy, but I'm functional.

Speaker 1 I said you're squirrely. I didn't say you were crazy.
Squirrely, hard to get a beat on you. I know there's a lot of stuff there.
I don't want to go near.

Speaker 1 You can get near the cage. Just don't start fucking around in here.
I would drive cross country with Arnett,

Speaker 1 Sean, in a second. You, that's not happening unless, yeah, like you say, there's like a barrier, a caged barrier.
I'm driving the police car.

Speaker 2 Be in the back with a privacy glass.

Speaker 1 No, you're in the back. I'm driving you.
Yeah, okay. I'm dressed as a sheriff and I'm driving you cross-country and you're, but there's a cage and you're shackled.

Speaker 1 Every now and then I pass you some green tea. But that's about it.
That's all that's happening.

Speaker 1 It is interesting to me that a important linchpin of your turnaround, which you say is arrested development, the guy behind that, one of the guys behind it, and the narrator of the show, Ron Howard, famously one of the few examples of a child star who just nailed it in his adult life and seemed to make every right call.

Speaker 1 Did he ever give you any insight into

Speaker 1 that?

Speaker 2 Only by example. You know, like during, during the vast wasteland of my 20s,

Speaker 2 I was

Speaker 2 in an attempt to try to self-educate, I'd watch a lot of news. I was a big fan of Charlie Rose.

Speaker 2 I'd watch that show religiously. And

Speaker 2 Ron Howard was on it once. And I remember watching his interview.
And, you know, Ron Howard is

Speaker 2 at all times, it seems, just about the most gracious, magnanimous guy

Speaker 2 you'd ever find. And so I'm watching him just be incredibly warm and kind.
And he's not doing that because he needs to kiss Charlie Rose's ass or that he's nervous about being on the show or

Speaker 2 golly gosh.

Speaker 2 He's just genuinely that and is not worried about coming across as an ass kisser or eager or he's just being as kind as he is. Yeah.
And is not worried about masking that.

Speaker 2 Because if you grew up in the sort of cynical environment I grew up in, it's, you know, it's like, well, make sure you look like you don't want it, you know, or make sure that girl can't tell that you like her, you know, like, you know, be mean.

Speaker 2 Or when you go on an audition, make it seem like you don't really want it or that it's an inconvenience.

Speaker 2 Whatever, you know, toxic crap I was listening to as a kid, he was completely at odds with that, with his.

Speaker 2 So anyway, so I remember sitting there watching that interview and going, if I ever get relevance again, any sort of industry capital again, the greatest thing about it will be that I will be able to be as kind as I want to be and not worry about it coming across as

Speaker 2 being too eager and wanting the job, or, you know, and then I got arrested development, like working for this guy. And, you know, he did all the voiceovers.
He was never really on set.

Speaker 2 So I never really met him until after the show had been gone for a while. And eventually, I, and I think it was pretty late, maybe four or five years into, I finally had dinner with him.

Speaker 2 And I told him the story and I told him about what.

Speaker 1 Did he narrate the dinner?

Speaker 1 And then he told you to fuck off.

Speaker 1 He pulled the mask back. He said, yeah, fold another one.
Jason seemed perplexed. He wanted the eggplant risotto, but he didn't know if it was going to be too heavy.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 I think he understood what I was saying, that not only his example kind of provided this North Star for me, but the actual show itself gave me the capital that I was, you know, reaching for, hoping for, that I could stop kind of acting twice going into interview, you know, auditions, you know, kind of like trying to be like, kind of like, oh, yeah, what's up, everybody?

Speaker 2 You know, and it's fucking such a douchebag. It was just like, and of course it would make me incredibly nervous because I've got to pull off that performance and now it's time to do the audition.

Speaker 2 And, you know, now I got to pull off this. I was just like exhausting.

Speaker 1 Well, they say it's, it's. It's exhausting to be a pathological liar because you have to keep all of your stories straight.
Right. And it is exhausting to have to put on a persona.
Right.

Speaker 1 To then audition for something where you're then another persona.

Speaker 1 But then if you don't get it, you have to switch into the persona, which is I didn't really need it anyway. I'm cool.
I'm good.

Speaker 1 It's just garbage.

Speaker 2 You know, so

Speaker 2 thankfully,

Speaker 2 I kind of got through that to a certain extent,

Speaker 2 but it was painful. I mean, my 20s were just like,

Speaker 2 it was fun, but a real real,

Speaker 2 a real sort of head trip for me because I'm transitioning from like all of that fame and success and easy road to not making as much money, not having the, not having the actual sustenance to,

Speaker 2 because my confidence came from my work.

Speaker 1 Now that I don't have the work, now what do I have the confidence on?

Speaker 1 You know, it's just like, yeah, yeah, nine people out of 10 who went through what you went through would not, it would not have worked out.

Speaker 1 Can you identify something in you that helped you say, okay, I'm partying too much. This has to stop.
I need to.

Speaker 1 There is an inner resource that you have

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 90% of people in your situation would not have. But I, I, and I,

Speaker 2 perhaps, but I, I, I, I think everybody's got it because all it was was just

Speaker 2 goals and foresight and vision. And, and, you know, everybody has a way they like to think of themselves.

Speaker 2 And there are certain things that you can't do and certain things that you want to achieve and incorporate that make that vision legit. Yeah.
You know,

Speaker 2 I knew

Speaker 2 I wanted to be a dad. I wanted to be a father.
And sorry, I want to be a husband, a dad, and I wanted to direct a movie

Speaker 2 as an adult. That was the way I always said to myself as a kid.
And so I knew I had to do certain things to make those three things happen.

Speaker 2 I had to build up sort of acting capital to be able to say, hey, now I want to direct the famous t-shirt, right?

Speaker 2 I couldn't be like, you know, a fucking drug addict and a drunk and expect to have any sort of relationship that was, that had any legs.

Speaker 2 And then, you know, being a father follows that.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I knew I had to kind of wind down the

Speaker 2 20s fun at some point.

Speaker 2 And I didn't know.

Speaker 2 Do you get rid of all that stuff and then the work will come? Or should I wait for the work to come to be sort of like, you know, the little pacifier that allows me to stop doing all the other stuff?

Speaker 2 It ended up kind of all happening at the same time, which was nice.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 yeah, I guess it would just be that. So I don't think I'm not that special.
I think everybody wants certain things for themselves in the future.

Speaker 2 And I think it's just about having perhaps the discipline to say, okay, you kind of got to do X, Y, and Z to get to A, B, and C. And at what point do you want to start to implement that plan?

Speaker 1 Trevor Burrus, Jr.: I've never ever had any ambition to direct anything.

Speaker 1 I admire that skill immensely. And I think part of me is a little curious if someone put a gun to my head and said, you have to direct something, what I would do.

Speaker 2 You'd be great.

Speaker 1 But I don't understand what it is. But I know that you

Speaker 1 directed quite a bit on Ozark. You must have been watching the whole time.

Speaker 1 I mean, this was go back to when you're a kid, where you're watching other people make these decisions. Someone explained to me once a lot of directing is making choices.

Speaker 1 Do you want this or do you want that?

Speaker 1 So you're watching that and saying, I want to be doing that.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 it was Michael Landon on Little House in the Prairie. So right as I was starting to like, you know, I'd done a couple of years of commercials and stuff like that, but

Speaker 2 but I was starting to really kind of notice what this magic trick is of making fake life.

Speaker 2 Like, oh, okay, so you point like, you know, because we all look through the paper towel tube when we're a kid, you know, and like, you know, you kind of like, you know, you make that little tunnel that you're seeing stuff through.

Speaker 2 And outside that tunnel, that stuff you can't see, like, that's where all the gap can be, right? Like the microphone and the lights and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 And so just inside that tube needs to be pristine. And so I started to, I started to watch directors and crews kind of create this fake life.

Speaker 2 And Michael Landon was the director, executive producer, star, writer.

Speaker 2 Everybody loved him.

Speaker 1 What was he like? I just because I grew up.

Speaker 1 My brother is obsessed with Bonanza and has been his whole life and has made sure that all of us around him have watched almost every episode of Bonanza. So

Speaker 1 even though, yes, I know he went on to Little House in the Prayer and everything, I just can't believe that's that's Joe Cartwright. Yeah.
I can't believe you even knew him. Right.
Right.

Speaker 1 What was he like as a person?

Speaker 2 He was George Clooney would be like the

Speaker 2 perfect comparison today.

Speaker 2 His ease with people, with the process, with the business, with just Joe on the street,

Speaker 2 women are crazy about him. Guys want to be his buddy.

Speaker 2 And so watching him juggle all those balls and kind of be this leader and presence on a set and be kind with people, but also be kind of a

Speaker 2 stern boss if he needs to.

Speaker 2 That was pretty inspirational. And so

Speaker 2 that's kind of where it started that. And my dad never really took me to the park to throw the ball.

Speaker 2 He'd take me to, you know, art houses, you know, to like watch foreign films and show me what directing is and what acting is and what's good and what's bad.

Speaker 1 What if he only took you to art houses and showed you bonanzas?

Speaker 1 Here's one where this

Speaker 1 these cattle rustlers come to town.

Speaker 1 Michael.

Speaker 1 There, we're going to show a true fellow, true faux film here, but we shut that down. This is going to be the bonanza where, okay, all right.

Speaker 1 But that's beautiful that he did that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, I mean, in retrospect, it was because it kind of planted the seed. Yeah.
Yeah, and then it just kind of went on from there. And I was always sort of tracking it and wanting to do it.

Speaker 2 And so paying attention to every set I was on after Little House.

Speaker 2 And then I actually went and spoke to the producers of the Hogan family when I was 18 to see if there could be a slot for my dad to direct an episode.

Speaker 2 And while I was talking to the producers about that, they said, yeah, for sure. And do you want to direct one?

Speaker 2 And I said, yes, please. And

Speaker 2 ended up doing that. And

Speaker 2 then that was just sort of like, well, I guess now I can, now I can do this. It's a different thing directing stuff in front of a studio.
It's more like directing a play, you know, to be fair.

Speaker 2 But still, it was, I got me my DGA card.

Speaker 2 And I thought, you know, and then I I was really pursuing that career when Arrested Development came around I was I was following Jim James Burroughs around yeah Jimmy Burroughs around and watching he's a for the listeners who don't know he was like the the most famous the babe ruth of yeah

Speaker 2 all the great cheers yeah sitcom director sitcom directors friends yeah you know I was like well I want to turn my my my my history of doing sitcoms into a positive instead of the negative that it I felt it was at the time and let all that experience maybe get me hired as a director and so I wanted to be be like the new Jimmy Burroughs.

Speaker 2 And then arrested development came along.

Speaker 1 My quick, this just popped in my head, but literally a couple of months ago, I had to go back to Boston

Speaker 1 quickly, see my family. And I always stay in the same hotel.
And I get on my elevator to go down to the lobby, and

Speaker 1 it stops on another floor, and Jimmy Burroughs gets on. Really? And this is a hotel that's right on the park,

Speaker 1 literally maybe 60 feet from the cheers bar.

Speaker 1 And I'm headed down, and Jimmy and I are talking. And I said, hey, Jimmy, you want to go over to the cheers bar?

Speaker 1 Hang out? And he went, yeah,

Speaker 1 no.

Speaker 1 I was like, I don't know why that popped into my head. I've been in there.

Speaker 1 That's a cool spot. Sure.

Speaker 1 People go there. It's like people that go to the central, one of the central Perk coffee shops and think they're going to see Jennifer Anniston.

Speaker 1 They feel cheated that they're they're not. It's a bar.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 yeah,

Speaker 1 I think the salvation is if you get into the work, like for me, when I hear you talk about all this, is that you were very interested in making the stuff and the work.

Speaker 1 And to me, that was always the salvation. I wanted.

Speaker 1 My goal, if you asked me when I was 20, what's your goal? I would say, I would like to have a body body of work, which sounds incredibly pretentious, but that's what I wanted. People could like it.

Speaker 1 They could hate it, but I just wanted when I was done to have

Speaker 1 stuff that I had made that

Speaker 1 as a writer. As a writer, as a whatever, just as a performer, as a

Speaker 2 did you have on-camera aspirations at that time?

Speaker 1 I, you know, it's so funny. I knew that I could get a job as a writer, but I always was a performer as a writer.
So I was always the guy that would get up and do stuff.

Speaker 1 At Saturday Night Live, I would do things in front of the other writers, start doing something, and they would be laughing.

Speaker 2 And Lauren would notice that.

Speaker 1 And Lauren would notice it, but also the writers would say, that's a sketch, that guy you're doing right now. And I'm just doing it because something's wrong with me.

Speaker 2 Or you're trying to make it more, you're trying to get your point across to the other writers that this, this is what it needs to be, or that this, this, this sketch works if you play it paranoid.

Speaker 2 And so you, you, you've got to like do it.

Speaker 1 But not even that. There were often times when I wasn't pitching a sketch.
I was just doing

Speaker 1 you've seen it, Sona, where I'll just come in and I'll just be doing something that strikes me as funny or odd. And that's all you do.
That's kind of all I do.

Speaker 3 I don't know the real you.

Speaker 1 And then we got to SNL and

Speaker 1 I was doing that for someone like Odin Kirk or Smeigel and they said, no, that's a sketch. That's a, that's a, that's a sketch.
And I was like, oh, that's just a thing that I do. Right.

Speaker 1 And then that was

Speaker 1 many, many of the things that I've, over the years that I wrote for SNL or any of the things that I, over the years, did on late night were just things that I did.

Speaker 1 Sometimes I would do them in the shower.

Speaker 1 And my wife to this day will hear me in the shower saying, you've got some nerve.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 they've all just grown accustomed to it, but that's where that came from.

Speaker 1 You know me, I love to travel. You love to do it.
Travel the world. I do it

Speaker 1 professionally for my travel show, but I also just like to, sometimes with my wife, go and visit a foreign land and try their different cuisines.

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Speaker 3 I didn't even know there were 215 countries.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's just, well,

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Speaker 1 Critics are praising Fraser's performance with Next Picture calling him brilliant and describing the film as a love letter to Japan. You know, true story, when I was shooting a show in Japan,

Speaker 1 we shot a segment where I rented a family.

Speaker 2 I think we still have a picture framed with you and your family that you rented.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was really fascinating. And it was a great experience.
And I worked out some of my issues between my father and I with my rental father. That's good.
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Speaker 2 Have you ever, and I apologize if it exists and I haven't seen it, but have you ever spent time doing multiple characters along with your writing as you would have done had you been on camera at SNL?

Speaker 2 What do you mean?

Speaker 2 Well, like

Speaker 2 do inhabiting multiple characters, playing some French pastry chef, and then playing

Speaker 2 a mechanic, and then as you do as a cast man.

Speaker 1 I think we've done bits where I've been different people,

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 2 not on the talk show, no, right? Where you like dress up in costume and there's a wig and there's prosthetic, just like an SNL cast member.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 It's interesting because I always, when I was at SNL, I never looked at Dana Carvey or any of those guys and thought, oh, I could be doing that because I always knew the difference.

Speaker 1 I always knew there have been things where we would shoot something.

Speaker 1 We did something with Liev Schreiber once, which was a parody of that show, Studio 60. Remember, there was a show that was a very serious

Speaker 1 Aaron Sorkin show.

Speaker 1 He took a West-Wing approach to like a Saturday Night Live, and people were giving him a hard time for it. We decided to do a parody of it.
And so Liev Schreiber, we got him to play me.

Speaker 1 So Liev Schreiber has the Conan hair.

Speaker 1 And my favorite thing is we got me a thin mustache and you could probably see it online and waxed back my hair and I played the producer and I'm talking to Conan and I'm saying god damn it Conan

Speaker 1 you know women want to be with you men want to be you you've got it all the looks the chops and Lee of Shriver's brooding and I'm talking about Conan in this you know

Speaker 1 what was this on

Speaker 1 it was on the late night show you know I mean we did thousands and thousands of hours of late night shows and we would we would fill so I guess the point is that for me, it's always been,

Speaker 1 I'm going to quote my dad, and I've quoted him many times on the show with this exact same line, but he always said, you're making your living off of something that should probably be treated because it's very manic, and I can't not do it.

Speaker 1 And I do it. I just got back from a vacation with my wife and kids.
I did it there.

Speaker 1 They just tune it out.

Speaker 1 They're not interested.

Speaker 1 They, you know,

Speaker 1 as kids i would call my kids together when my wife was not around and i would say kids kids your mother's gone and i need to talk to you and they would

Speaker 1 and they would gather around me and they would look up at me and go is this real or is this a bit

Speaker 1 and i'd go it's just that i think and they'd go it's a bit and walk away so it's it's that 24 7.

Speaker 2 i love that i love being just a total whack job with my kids sometimes, but it's such an unreliable unreliable audience. I mean,

Speaker 2 they're determined not to laugh.

Speaker 1 Of course. Right?

Speaker 2 So it's pain for you and for me.

Speaker 1 But I do that. But also I love it.
And because if you can crack them, you've got something. But also, it's as it should be.
Yeah. If your children are laughing and saying, God, Dad,

Speaker 1 you're the greatest. You've got a problem.
You have a real problem.

Speaker 2 They want something.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 My eldest, Frannie, she's 18.

Speaker 2 She's just recently, I don't know, like in the last year, gotten into directing. Like she's starting to really look at films and kind of understand what a director does.

Speaker 2 And so she wants to pursue that.

Speaker 2 And I guess somebody, and she's never watched anything I've done.

Speaker 1 Maybe one.

Speaker 2 I think it's weird for her to see me pretending to be somebody else, or she also has a real hard time with me getting hurt.

Speaker 2 And I'm often, you know, getting the pie in the face.

Speaker 2 And so I guess somebody in her class or somebody started watching Ozark or something and went up to her and said, you know, hey, you know, you're dad and this thing's really good.

Speaker 2 I just remember like a year or so ago, she came home and she was like, she basically, well, I don't remember the words, but she basically said for the first time kind of,

Speaker 2 so you do this.

Speaker 2 Do you do this thing that I'm interested in?

Speaker 1 Just

Speaker 1 Tell me about what. But that is so healthy.

Speaker 2 Well, no, it's healthy, yes. But it was also so exciting for me that like she has an appreciate, or she thinks what I do is cool, or that

Speaker 2 she might realize, oh, dad can answer a question for me. You know, like, how do you do that shot? You know, is that a steady chem? Is that Dolly Track?

Speaker 2 So anyway, so now we've been having like an incredible time bonding over films and directing and things like that.

Speaker 2 But it is, it was, it's great that they don't give it up until it's something that's really kind of interesting.

Speaker 2 And not, in other words, she's not fascinated with my fucking job that I just go off and go do. Just like any kid wouldn't be like, hey, dad, tell me about your day at work today.

Speaker 2 How was, you know, what was it like at the office?

Speaker 1 Like, who cares?

Speaker 2 You know, it's just be my dad. And, and, and I appreciate that because it's kind of, I had a bit of a hybrid experience of that at best as, as a kid.

Speaker 2 You know, there wasn't really that, that really healthy dynamic of deference to

Speaker 2 parents as you're sort of, you know, the adults you aspire to be and you could only ever reach for and you'll never be as old as them. Like I was a, I was colleagues with my parents at a very

Speaker 2 exactly. And so that was sort of, I had to learn to adapt and not, you know, live a childhood that didn't really have that.
So I love that she has sort of kept me at this place.

Speaker 2 It's like, yeah, dad goes to work. Who gives a shit? You know, like he's just, he's just my dad.

Speaker 1 I remember doing the late night show, and Bruce Springsteen was performing on the show, and Patty's there, his wife is there. And then at one point, he's talking, and then he leaves the room.

Speaker 1 And I said something like, um,

Speaker 1 he had just told a joke or something, and she like rolled her eyes. And I was, she said, Yeah, when he does his jokes around the kids, they're like, God, dad.

Speaker 1 And I was like, that's Bruce Springsteen. Yeah.
But no, no. In the best, in the very best way, they're annoyed.
Right. Oh, God.
You know. And we're starting underwater, actually.

Speaker 1 Well, he talks about the iconic Dancing in the Dark video where he pulls Courtney Cox

Speaker 1 on the stage at the end. In his biography, his autobiography, he talks about pulling her up on stage and he does the dance with her.
His kids finally saw that years later and they were horrified.

Speaker 1 At that dance move. At his dance move.
And they just relentlessly gave him shit for it. Like went back on it and kept showing it to him and going, What the fuck are you? But, you know, in 1985,

Speaker 1 that was it.

Speaker 1 It was amazing. But, and he was Bruce Springsteen, but no, it doesn't matter anymore.
Now it's just this embarrassing footage you found of your dad. How old are your kids?

Speaker 1 My son is 19 and my daughter's 21.

Speaker 2 And how, how, so then when you started doing the sh

Speaker 2 late night show, that was, what was that? 93.

Speaker 1 So I was 30 years old.

Speaker 1 I didn't meet my wife.

Speaker 1 I didn't meet my wife for another 10 years.

Speaker 2 So how would they, I mean, when they started, when they were old enough to kind of intellectualize that that's my dad up on that billboard, how did that go?

Speaker 1 I think they just, they took it really well, but I'll never forget. I did it shows at Comic-Con, Spreckles Theater, huge theater.
My wife, Liza, came down.

Speaker 1 She brought my son, who's kind of interested in sci-fi. He was a little kid at the time, maybe five.
Yeah. He sat in the theater.
He saw the band playing. He saw fans.

Speaker 1 I mean, places packed, three-tiered theater.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 2 and up until now, you've just been just that annoying dork around the house.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And so he's watching it.
And then I come out and I do the show, and he sees people getting really excited

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 laughing and having a good time. And then he's walking out with his mom, my wife, and we're walking out.

Speaker 1 He's walking out and he said to her, when I grow up, I want to do something where there's no stage and no audience.

Speaker 1 And it was just like, I want to do the opposite

Speaker 1 of what that guy's doing.

Speaker 2 Because he thought that was sort of,

Speaker 2 it was scary.

Speaker 1 I think for whatever reason, he just knew, whatever that guy's doing, that's not what I'm going to do. And

Speaker 1 highly intelligent and very good and has a completely different skill set than I do.

Speaker 2 Not interested in doing anything.

Speaker 1 No, no, not at all. But he'll actually have a legitimate life.
Right, exactly.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 2 One that's built on credentials.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 And actual knowledge. Right.
Yeah. Knowledge of real things.
Not like us.

Speaker 1 No, we're show folk. And

Speaker 1 I've always kind of liked that for some reason, bizarre reason, in the mid-20th century, being in show business started to have cachet

Speaker 1 and then it has only grown.

Speaker 1 And I'm someone who reads a lot of history and I studied history

Speaker 1 before the 20th century. For hundreds and hundreds of years, people that worked in show business were thought of as,

Speaker 1 just use the back door. And no, you're not, you cannot, you, you can't come in.

Speaker 1 You do your thing and then get the fuck out of here and take your little, you you know, and I've always thought, I do think that's the way we should be treated. Right.

Speaker 2 Instead of throwing ourselves award shows.

Speaker 1 No, exactly. I've always thought, no, we're show folk.

Speaker 2 We're damned. We're entertainment.
We're the gestures

Speaker 2 that should come in and out through the back door. Yeah.
Yeah. Right after the food comes.

Speaker 1 I should not be given the food that other people are getting. I should get some cold food.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean,

Speaker 2 you're right. I mean, we're not doing anything that complicated.
You know, we're not doing things that are vital. We're not building infrastructure.
You know, we're like, we're not solving problems.

Speaker 1 We're creating problems.

Speaker 2 We're creating problems. We're pacifying people in between their thoughts.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 I'm glad I got you to admit that your life is a sham.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 But it's certainly not like. No,

Speaker 1 you've gone too far. You've gone too far.

Speaker 1 I think what you and I do is vitally important. And I'll also posit more important than anything being done in science, in medicine.
You're right about that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So you've completely changed your mind from 15 seconds ago.

Speaker 1 I want to wrap this up, but I do want to tell you that you started off this interview by selling yourself very short in a way that I found kind of appalling, which is I think what you do on Smartless

Speaker 1 and also what you did so beautifully on arrested development and what you've really done in your career is

Speaker 1 you're channeling something that to me is very essential. You're fucking so smart as a performer, as an actor.

Speaker 1 And seriously,

Speaker 1 I think, I mean, arrested development is a great example of where you're holding, you are the center of all of that. You're seeing everything.

Speaker 1 And yes, that is a huge job.

Speaker 1 And that could have been done wrong a billion different ways. And so

Speaker 2 appreciate you saying that for sure.

Speaker 1 But I also think I would know if

Speaker 1 Arnett and Hayes babbling the two of them, I couldn't listen to that for six seconds.

Speaker 2 You know, I just without, yeah, without the third color going in there, you've just got red and green.

Speaker 1 You've got red, and then also a very annoying red and a very annoying green.

Speaker 1 And then you're this like essential taupe. Yes.
It's just

Speaker 1 surrounding it.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 we fuck around a lot,

Speaker 1 but anytime that you would come to my home, be it a Christmas party or anytime would be a big deal. It would be a huge deal.
A huge deal. It's a fun bit for me.
It would be a big deal for me,

Speaker 1 and my son's hair would fall out and his teeth.

Speaker 2 And before you kick me out, I would like to thank you for being so nice to us at Smartless and helping us out repeatedly.

Speaker 2 It really, you know, you learn a lot about people when it's so easy to say no in our business.

Speaker 2 You know, there's layers of people between the ask and the answer that you can easily slide in a no or I'm busy or something like that.

Speaker 1 You never have. I'll be honest with you.
I love playing with you guys. It is that simple.
I've never had a real conversation with Will Arnett. No.
We only play. to the point where we were scolded once

Speaker 2 by one of your wives?

Speaker 1 Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Knock it off YouTube before we even got started.
Right. It was knock it off you too.
My wife says the same thing.

Speaker 2 With the fucking bits. Do you guys ever really guys just suck.

Speaker 2 Do you guys ever really, she'll come home all the time and she'll say, yeah, what did Will feel about the party last night or the dinner yesterday? I was like, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 You like the food.

Speaker 2 No, no, no. Did they talk about? No, do you guys never, you guys never process anything?

Speaker 2 It's like, well, that, but like, dudes don't really process shit. Like, if there's a problem, we figure it out.
Right.

Speaker 2 But we're not sitting there just like kneading the bread, you know, about yesterday, you know, and figuring out what the side door might think of. It's just always through the front door on everybody.

Speaker 1 No, that's why anytime there's been any kind of smartless ask from the very beginning, I thought that's being asked to go play, go play ball with three people who you love to play ball with.

Speaker 1 And I'm using that analogy because I'm a terrible athlete.

Speaker 1 And so I'm being very vague about play ball.

Speaker 1 Which ball?

Speaker 1 Shut up, Sona.

Speaker 1 Go pass the old puck around.

Speaker 1 It's your mitt.

Speaker 1 But anyway, you've always been an easy player.

Speaker 2 You were always my favorite talk show to do because you can do those pre-interviews till the cows come home, and most shows stick on them.

Speaker 1 Always when you sit down and start talking with you, you would just start a conversation. I just want to have a bunch of people.

Speaker 2 And then all of a sudden, the 10 minutes would go by.

Speaker 2 You know, it's such a nerve-wracking thing for me doing talk shows. It's like crazy.

Speaker 1 That's why this format

Speaker 1 is so much fun.

Speaker 2 Truly starting to do your show was like, oh, it can be like this.

Speaker 2 It was great.

Speaker 1 It was great, great, great. Well, I'm glad we like each other now.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And let's just throw a two-man party.

Speaker 1 Yes. Just throw a party.

Speaker 2 Make sure everyone knows about it.

Speaker 1 It's just you and I. It's you and I.
Even Aniston can't get in. No.

Speaker 1 She can serve us.

Speaker 2 Bring us the food.

Speaker 1 Jennifer's outside. Yeah, yeah.
Tell her we're good.

Speaker 1 We're good.

Speaker 1 God bless you, Jason Bateman. Go forth.
Continue to do amazing stuff. My best to the gang over at Smartless.
I will tell you.

Speaker 2 I'm feeling now even better about being Conan O'Brien.

Speaker 1 Wow, we've notched from 11% acceptance of me to a friend.

Speaker 4 It's pretty good at the beginning.

Speaker 1 Even better.

Speaker 1 All right, take care.

Speaker 4 Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonom of Session, and Matt Gorley. Produced by me, Matt Gorley.
Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Frost, and Nick Liao.

Speaker 4 Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
Take it away, Jimmy.

Speaker 4 Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and Mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns.

Speaker 4 Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn.

Speaker 4 You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Cocoa Hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message.

Speaker 4 It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at seriousxm.com/slash Conan.

Speaker 4 And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

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Speaker 1 Pacifico, find your own way. 21 plus drink responsibly, imported by Crown Imports, Chicago, Illinois.