Jason Bateman

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Terms and more at AppleCard.com. Hi, my name is Jason Bateman, and I feel...
Pretty good about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Wait a minute, you said you worked on this answer.
I know, but then I said I got nothing. Pretty good? With a dramatic pause before you? What's that? Fall is here, hear the yell.
Back to school, ring the bell. Brand new shoes, walk and loose.
Climb the fence, books and pens. I can tell that we are gonna be friends.
Yes, I can tell that we are gonna be friends Hey there, it's Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend I am Conan O'Brien And I'm joined here It is an intro What is your problem? I didn't know what we were doing Okay, well that's I'm sorry No, we're keeping this. Gorley will cut this out.
No. Yeah.
Gorley, keep it in.

It's too good.

A little torn between two parents. All right, I'll start again.
My guest today. Oh, sorry.
Now you got to keep it in. Hello.
Goodbye. Hey there.
Welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. I don't know why I'm talking like the old movie phone guy.
I'm Conan O'Brien, joined by Sona Mofsessian, Matt Gourley. And I was disheartened to learn Sona last week.
Yeah. The jacket that for years I've made fun of because you wore it all the time.
Mm-hmm. Just constantly.
Constantly. I mean, you wore it at your wedding.
It was ridiculous. Didn't wear it that much.
And you wore it all the time, every day. Do you agree that you wore it a lot?

I wore it so much, the lining was ripping.

And so it was a little bit of a thing where I would make fun of the jacket

and was kind of like a fun hee-hee-ha-ha.

And then I found out on last week's episode, just joking around,

that your jacket was lost when your house caught fire.

Right.

Which I didn't know.

And I expressed real surprise because I couldn't imagine that jacket not being with you. Yeah.
But you said it was in the house and so it's gone. It's gone.
It was in the house. I did wear it a lot.
I felt like, but the Fonz wears his jacket all the time. There's cool people who wear the same jacket.
That's a television character. They're legally required to wear the same.
Indiana Jones? Yeah, they have to wear the same thing. Yeah, but like, isn't it cool? It was not.
I think so. No, it wasn't good every day.
And I offered to buy you other jackets. Remember? Yeah, I know, but I don't need other jackets.
I had a jacket I liked. Well, now you need a jacket.
Well, so I looked and they still sell my jacket. They do? They do.
They still, it was like, I think I bought it like maybe 10 years ago, but it's like kind of a staple for the brand. I think it's more than 10 years ago because, no, because you started working with me like 15, 16 years ago.
I bought it while I was working for you. And you had the jacket then.
Yeah. And it was a splurge for me.
So I thought myself, okay, if I wear it enough,

it'll justify how much I spent on it.

And so that's part of the reason why you wore it so much.

Okay.

So anyway, they still have it.

They still have the jacket?

They do.

Would you want to replace it?

I will pay for this jacket if it doesn't go above a certain amount.

If I do buy another one, are you going to make fun of me yes so you're paying for the right because you've now lost the right to make fun of her i can't i had a we had a fun thing going where i could come up with all these different riffs about the jacket yeah um and the jacket tragically lost the riff was lost the joke was lost. I understand this.
That's what I think of. Can I represent you here? Yeah, please.
Will you give her the cash value? No, I want the, no, absolutely not. No, she's got it.
That's cold hearted. Well, I'm sorry, I'm a businessman.
Is that as far as you had? That's all you had like he's a lawyer caster i'm not a lawyer

he's a lawyer who just oh i understand and then immediately he closed he closed his briefcase he folded up the table he was sitting at and he jumped out the window my work here is done well my work here is done out the window matinee at the bijou i've got a catch I really thought you were going to go in on him

No, no

I will not do the cash The work here is done. Out the window.
Matinee at the Bijou. I've got a catch.

I really thought you were going to go in on him.

No, no.

I know what I'm doing.

I will not do the cash value.

I want you to have the same jacket because I want you to have that jacket back.

Let me see it. Bring up that picture.

Okay.

Because I don't remember this jacket.

You don't remember.

It's the only thing she wore.

It looks so much better on this model.

That's like me saying, I don't remember your puzzled expression look how cool that was a cool jacket oh yeah yeah yeah it's like a proper it's like a biker's jacket it's this this is the part that i thought was very general zayas planet of the apes you know oh yeah that doctor detail oh right that's like um i don't know if i need that anymore no you gotta you gotta have that. There's like a quilted leather crosshatch.
Yeah, yeah. That was the part that really bothered me.
Yeah. But I want you to get that exact same jacket.
They still sell it? They do. What's the price? It's the Terminator jacket, basically.
Is it? It's kind of. I didn't.
I don't know. You're a Terminator.
Yeah. No, the Terminator wears like a normal motorcycle jacket, doesn't he? That's kind of what that is.
There's other jackets that don't have that detail on it. All right.
Let's get into more profitable territory. Because you guys are going into the weeds here and it's my job.
Let me handle this. Is that your final offer? How much is this? I'm scared to say it because I do want to say want to say it.
I did splurge on this.

Let me say, let me say what it is.

It's $5.50.

I spent that on lunch.

Okay.

I order $550 worth of fresh Alaskan crab every day.

And I eat it off the small of my head writer's back.

Why?

Yeah, Mike Sweeney has to get on all fours.

I ladle out this crab that's been shipped in

in a private plane.

And I ladle it onto his small back

and then I eat it with a tiny little silver spoon.

So anyway, yes, I will buy you that jacket.

I will buy you that jacket.

No, actually, I'm not kidding.

It would mean a lot to me to replace that thing that's been lost. It would also mean a lot to me to keep making fun of you.
I know. That's what I know.
I'm buying you that jacket. It's a done deal.
Okay. I did it.
I brokered the deal. Thank you.
Thank you. You're welcome.
You were a key in this whole matter. Yeah, you really.
So, no, seriously, Sona, order the jacket. I don't know how to do that.
No, no. Okay.
This doesn't work if you don't do it. You've got to order the jacket.
Yeah. Because the jacket was lost, to be serious for just a second.
Yeah. The jacket was lost in the fire.
Yeah. Let's replace it.
Okay. And now I'll represent you.
He'll buy it, but you have to bring it in and we do a segment about it. I will.
I'll bring it in. I will definitely bring it in because I'm going to wear it probably all the time.

So buy the jacket and don't have me reimburse you.

I have to buy the jacket.

I have your credit card.

I know you do.

What?

Yeah.

She has my credit card. Why aren't we living high on the hog?

She's actually done okay for herself.

There have been many times where Sona, how much, how many drinks do you think you've had

on old Uncle Conesy without Uncle Conesy even knowing it

over the years?

Without you even knowing it?

Before you even became a responsible member of society.

Quite a bit.

Yeah.

I love it.

I love it.

But I think it's also the least you could do for me.

Yeah.

So you're welcome.

It was always showed up on my MX statements

as least I could do.

Least you could do for Sona. And they would be like, oh, my God, you dropped $1,800 at a bar.
Yeah. So we're done.
It's a done deal now. Right.
You're getting that jacket. OK.
I will pay for it. You will wear it.
And that is my way of making all of your loss go away. Oh, does that cover it? The one leather jacket? Sure.
You lost in your one leather. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Too bad he didn't make fun of your house. That house is no house.
All right. Let's get into it.
My guest today started in Arrested Development, now co-hosts the popular podcast Smartless alongside my arch enemies, Will Arnett and Sean Hayes. I am very

thrilled that this gentleman is joining us today. This is his first time.
This is very cool. I

bullied him into coming here. Jason Bateman, welcome.
You know, the question is, are you Conan O'Brien's friend if you aren't invited to his Christmas party? You know, there's so many hundreds and hundreds of people. We've straightened this out.
No, thousands are invited to the Christmas party. I invite thousands and about 50 come.
Listen, gonna just because this has been a thing and then i went on smart list recently uh you know about you coming to the christmas party and it was a thing for a while you you you claim you weren't invited i was shocked that there was a christmas party that the christmas party had been going on for years but you were i think you were shocked that christmas was celebrated because you're such a grinch that christmas had something to do with your lord and savior jesus christ i was like well listen the point is you you know let's talk about smart list it's a juggernaut you guys are it's a pretty hard pivot uh it's a real i mean i was a four-wheel slide something right i just i just broke my hip pivoting but no the point i'm trying to make is of you three guys you got will arnett you got sean is it haze yeah i think it's h-a-z-e okay. And then you're Jason Bateman.
Okay, there's the three of you, and you're the one that I have trouble getting a beat on, I gotta say. You're the one, you're squirrely.
You're squirrely, Bateman. I've always had a problem getting a beat on you.
A huge fan of yours. I adore you, but I can't get a beat on the guy.
I can't.

Because you can sense that I'm not sure why I'm there. And I don't really, I'm not really sure if I, I don't get it.
I don't understand why people listen to it. I get that Will and Sean are appealing fellas.
That's why they're two of my best friends. And we're not doing anything more than just the drivel that happens when we're in a car together or at a dinner or how.
I just don't think that that's monetizable. Right.
That you should ask for people's attention to listen to that. Yep.
That you can monetize. I agree with it about your podcast.
I agree because I've checked it out. And I'm like, I can't believe that this is something people,

I mean, this, what we're doing here.

You've got a full, you've got an array of talent here.

I'm looking, hold on a second,

we put my glasses on.

Jesus, really?

We would disagree with that.

You've done some prep, right?

I can see questions there.

No, no, this is your medical history.

Oh.

This is your medical history.

You've got a handsome studio, you've got cameras around.

This is very professional.

Yeah, also.

We're on a Zoom. Thank you.
No, no, this is your medical history. You've got a handsome studio.

You've got cameras around. This is very professional.
We're on a Zoom. Also, can I just point out, I've been interviewing people around the clock since 1993.
I'm a seasoned professional. Exactly.
When Muhammad Ali was to boxing, I am to interviewing. We can cut all this off.
Yeah, well. You need lifts.
but you guys with this

you know, R&D. But, yes.
So I agree with you. At least Will has just sharp dagger humor.
He's got a darkness that's fun to follow. Yes.
A voice that's not bad to listen to'd buy whatever truck he's selling right yeah i mean as long as it's professional grade yeah he's got he's got an opinion and he'll let you know it yep sean p hayes is sure is is just pure sunshine and uh and is curious and is warm and i don't i don't i'm trying to find the lane that i'm supposed to be in which is the the area in between those two which i guess is just sort of listening and asking questions that i think the normal guy wants to know yeah you know yeah and so i'm i feel i'm easily replaceable yes yes i the same thing. I was going to say, I'm glad you said it.
I beat you to it. No, no.
You know, I think you could come, you could go. Right.
You know, whatever. Which is kind of what I do in whatever the hell I do on camera too.
I'm trying to just kind of be us. Okay.
I'm going to draw a parallel to what I maintain. And I've said this to Mr.
Ar Arnett many times is one of the finest comedy television shows of all time. And I take this stuff, as you know, very seriously.
My, my television comedy, uh, loves and my interests. Uh, I think Arrested Development is one of the finest, finest, uh, pieces of work done in television comedy.
And I think that you are hilarious and essential in that show because. I'm surrounded with funny folks.
No, but that's not it. You're not just the guy who's yes anding all of the funny people.
You're doing it in a hilarious way. You're taking it all in.
You're trying to understand. You do a beautiful job in that show.
As being our proxy, right? Like if somebody says something wacky, you've got someone you can turn to and give a ground to bounce off of, right? I mean, like there's nothing funny about Martians on Mars. I'm like, I'm Earth and they're the Martians.

And now there's something that's popping, right?

Yeah, but that is a very hard thing to do.

It's in the history of comedy,

straight men were always listed first.

So it was Martin and Lewis.

It was Abbott and Costello.

And it was because a good straight man was actually harder to find than a good wacky person. And that is the history of comedy, is that the act was controlled by the straight man, Burns and Allen.
It was always controlled by the straight man who was, it was a skill that was seen as more appreciated. So without getting too heavy, too serious, which I've probably done, I thought you did an absolutely stellar, remarkable job on that show.
Thank you, sir. And you're underselling yourself when you say – Thank you.
I'm just looking to get you to continue talking in a flattering way about me. I'm trying to continue to tee you up.
I'm just, you know, so I'm not really sure what you, explain. I'm confused.
What you did. Yeah.
Like Picasso. No, you know, it's really nice.
It's been, I, I've told this to Arnett a million times, but that show is a very key bonding element for my son and I, because my son has a very keen eye for comedy and really liked certain shows. And when he discovered Arrested Development, that was it.
How old was he when it started to kind of work for him? He was in his late fifties. He was 58.
I had him a long time ago. you look great by the way I've had so much done to me

and yeah 58 yeah i had my i had him a long time ago um you look great by the way i've had so much done to me and for me uh no i wouldn't i want to say he was i want to say he was 11 12 and chapter and verse there's not a there's not an episode i can name and we've we watch them repeatedly. So sometimes when he's blue or we'd be somewhere, it would be, okay, there are certain specific episodes that we would watch.
Was the medicine. Was the medicine.
Yeah. And it's nice because we all knew what's coming because we've seen them a thousand times.
And I bet is he, how old is he now uh he is 19. yeah i'll bet

i bet if you watched him again that you'd see i still see stuff you know like i haven't seen it for a few years but i saw a clip of something i was just like it's just kind of noticing you know like mitch mitch herwitz who's the the reason the whole thing is so funny he just has a sort of this appetite for humor that exists on more than even the standard two levels. Like he's not even happy if it doesn't work on like four or five levels.
And so the older you get or the more jaded you get or whatever, you start to see like level four and five or whatever the hell it would be. to the point where, I mean, me personally, I started to just think it was too confusing for my little bird brain towards the end there.
Like they were just layers on layers. He would have to come to the set and explain to us, me particularly, what the relevance of this line was or this scene was.
And sometimes

it was because certain scripts weren't available, which paid off what I was trying to either

establish through some of this exposition, because I was usually the exposition guy,

or I was the guy that had to give a knowing look signifying relevance about something that was a little opaque. So like I would need to know what that means to dial in whatever the hell that look would be.
And so he would need to come down and sort of like decipher things for me. Oh, you need to you need to raise an eyebrow there because that the reason that she said eggplant instead of cashew is because of, you know, like you got to read like that's that's going to mean something to you you know anyway can't you just give the same knowing look every time be no i'm not i'm not an actor but uh and maybe there's a reason i'm not an actor but i would just every single time go and just leave it up to the editor at the right time.
Fix it or use some CGI or do something, but you're getting one ooh from me and then I'm out the door. I wouldn't take that from Mitch Hurwitz.
Not for a second. I know.
We almost did the movie for a long time. Remember all that talk? Do you remember that talk? Yes, I do remember the movie.
I was so excited about that. I thought, oh, my God.
And then I remember Matt Damon coming up to me at, I think it was like a Golden Globes or something. and I was so excited about that.
I thought, oh my God, we're going to do it. And then I remember Matt Damon coming up to me at, I think it was like a Golden Globes or something.
And I was so excited to meet him. And he was like, hey, he was a huge fan of Arrested Development.
And he was saying, you know, I really think I could play. Because I hear you guys are doing that.
I think I could. Can I do you? Can I play? It was just like, oh my God.
I went right back to Mitch., this, this thing is moving, you know, like, come on. Wait a minute.
Why can't you beat you? Are everybody getting recast? I love that there'd be an Arrested Development movie and all of you would be recast with real actors. Well, that was the sort of the story that Mitch was thinking the story of the Arrested Development movie would be that in the sort of the story that mitch was thinking the story of the arrested development movie would be that in the show hollywood wanted to make a movie about us and so we certainly couldn't play ourselves because we're not actors but you still get to be yourselves but yes right yeah so like yeah i would be michael bluth would be on set watching matt damon play michael bluth and be so excited of course david Cross would play Tobias in the film as well because he was an actor.
Tobias was an actor. And I think Arnett was pretty close to getting Farrell to play Job and it would have been pretty cool.
It could still happen. No, I don't think anybody gives a shit.
I think they do.

I think it's done.

I think one call from me and it's happening.

Oh.

When I say call, I mean on an old 1940s phone. Because I'm so out of touch with what kind of pull I have in this town.
Your son would be the only guy in the theater. That's not true.
Tons of fans. At least nine fans.
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Hey, Sona. Pretty recently I got together with a bunch of my chums.
Yeah. What did you guys do? Guys I went to college with.
We all played football together. And don't laugh at that.
That's real. Sorry.
Yeah. It was one of those little table games of football.
It's actually a video game. It's simulated football.
And it was the 80s, so it wasn't a very good game. Anyway, it was a good time.
We got together. We had a good time.
It's really nice to get together with people. And I got to say from game nights to parties with friends or special anniversaries, celebrating important occasions means more moments with the coolest people in your life.
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This makes me nuts, Blay. Yes.
Me too. Me too.
Have you ever been served an ad that wasn't intended for you? All the time. You know, for a while I kept getting ads for expensive pots and guess what? I don't cook.
I have never cooked anything. I once tried to just boil some ramen and guess what happened? There was an explosion and three buildings were destroyed.
So when you want to reach this, that ad should never have gone to me for a special pot. It's a lot of buildings.
Yeah. A lot of buildings went and I had to flee the country for a while.
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Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads. There's one image I have in my head, which is Will Arnett is trying to sneak in Jeffrey Timbor in a stretch limo.
And of course, he has his stupid puppet, Franklin, with him. Which he couldn't do today.
Couldn't do today, or maybe racially insensitive puppet. But at one point, there's this second where you think the guard's not going to let him in, that the guard's been offended by this puppet.
And the guard says, wait a minute, you're all a minute uh you're all gonna have to step out of the car and there is a zoom and there's a zoom in on a terrified arnett there's a zoom on a terrified in the back seat jeffrey tambor and then a zoom in on the ventriloquist dummy franklin and i think i've watched that with my son 75 times and it's just I've memorized it

it's just, I've memorized it. It's been, I don't know.
It just fills me with delight over and over and over again. So that's, I mean, to a larger point, you've had with Smartless, Arrested Development, Ozark, you've been able to play in this very rich environment and have this crazy success.
And every now and then I get to talk to people on this podcast who sort of, they got to have their cake and eat it too. And you're one of those people who I think has had this lovely arc where you start as a child actor, which is not a promising start for many people.
And it really doesn't work to the point where there've been times where I thought, should they just make it illegal to be a child actor? Or force them to go into secondary education. You know, like, you know, I didn't.
How old were you when you got your first, you did a serial commercial when you're 10? Yeah. I mean, it was a very tangible, I don't remember a lot, but I do remember being really filled with anxiety about being able to continue to make a living in a business that I was pretty aware that it was tenuous at best, you know, that it was fickle.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even as a kid, I think you did Little House on the Prairie, some commercials.
You're on Silver Spoons. I could see kids having two reactions to that.
One, oh, I've landed in Candyland. I'm in Oz.
This is just amazing. But you had the emotional intelligence to be anxious about it and And yeah, I don't know if this is going anywhere.
Yeah. I mean, and I apologize to any listeners that have heard me twat on about this before.
But it was, you know, my parents were my managers and they were making more money doing that than what they were. My mom was a flight attendant for Pan Am.
My dad was a freelance writer, director, producer. And, you know, 15% of what I was making at that time just ended up being more than what they were making in their, in their careers.
And so it became an important component to our, our, our, not our overhead. Like we were living in a certain condo that we wouldn't be able to live in if they were just, you know, using their salaries.
And so, uh, or work, you need a work permit to work as a little kid before you're 18. And that work permit is renewed every six months based on you maintaining a C average in school.
And so the pressure on midterms and finals, uh, every year was immense for me because it was, you know, 60% of your grade. And so studying for those and making the, and if I, so if I fail a midterm, I don't get my work permit, which means I'm kicked off the show, which means everyone on the show loses their job.
We lose our, our house. Right.
And,

and, and plus I was also seeing just the churn of folks that were, you know, hosting Saturday Night Live, you know, one week and then a year later, you just never hear from them or maybe even a few months. So like I was, I was aware I was consuming pop culture.
So all of these, these sort of touch points of adult responsibility were really tangible for me, which is curious then why I didn't get my high school diploma. I didn't go to college.
I just doubled down. And thankfully, I was still doing a show until I was about 21, 22, I think, called The Hogan Family.
This was after silver spoons, after it's your move. And then when that, when that ended, then there was like this, this, this arid plane of my twenties of, of employment.
Like I'd get a, like one job a year and I kind of keep my head above water, but there was no cash cushion whatsoever. Cause I was, I was trying to catch up for all the time I'd lost being a kid too.
So I was playing really hard in my 20s. And I'm flying all over the place and paying for my friends' tickets.
So I didn't have a lot of money at all. In fact, I was in debt by the time I was in my 30s by the time Arrested Development came around.
And I was really thinking at that point, so the acting thing isn't going to work for me anymore. Kind of like used goods.
Television comedy was going in the direction of single camera comedy. I was known for multi-camera comedy, you know, in front of a live audience.
And so I was kind of, I was just kind of damaged, you know. And especially when I heard about Arrested Development, like here's a single camera comedy.
And it's kind of a mock mockumentary and it's Ron Howard's behind it.

And like, they don't want my garbage on that, but managed to guess right and get that job. And it was embraced by the industry and it was that huge reset button for me.
But prior to that, I really, really was that my 20s were not a comfortable period. I was really petrified about being able to support myself and have the rest of my career not be anti-climactic.
I thought about liquidating what little I did have, literally cashing out and literally putting what cash I had in a duffel bag, driving to the Bradley Terminal at LAX, looking up on that board, picking a city and going and just kind of unplugging from this kind of not rat race, but, but competition this, you know, every night's entertainment tonight, who's doing great. You know, who's on your show, you know, like, and I wasn't, uh, and I had been.
And so I thought, well, I don't want to continue playing at a game that I'm going to be losing every single year. So why don't I go to Tuscany and learn fucking Italian, French, whatever, buy a coffee shop and just start over at the age of 25.
I don't have a wife, don't have kids, have a bunch of friends, but let's go drink into more of those in

Europe, you know? So it was

I was very, very getting it

back to Arrested Development. That was

total paddles on the chest for me.

Do you ever think you blew it, that maybe you should have done that?

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, I'm just seriously, this coffee shop thing.

Sounds nice.

It sounds like a good coffee shop. Really nice.

You know? Well, whatever.

Le Starbucks. Can't go back i guess can't go back uh it's funny that you talk about that period of time um there's the i had my own experience working on the late night show we were constantly doing sketches and we would employ there there'd be a sketch that needed, you know, a kid to play me, you know, uh, from 20 years ago, constantly, or, or a kid who in the, who is in the audience, who doesn't understand something constantly doing these sketches where we need kids.
I remember very clearly, sometimes there were kids that came up to me, maybe eight years old. This happened more than once, but they would come up to me and go, excuse me, Mr.
O'Brien, I am Billy. Oh, hi, Billy.
You know, thanks for helping us out today. You're doing a great job at rehearsal.
I just want to say you are a formidable talent. And I could look in the background and see the mother peering out of the dressing room like, it's formidable.
We went over this. Say it.
You know, say it so that you're booked again, you fucker. Yeah.
And I was, it bummed me out. Right.
Seriously, every now and then, one of those child actors, one was a little kid who nailed it and grew up into Scarlett Johansson. Oh, yeah.
And you're, that's great. We've, I think we had one or two of those, but for the most part, uh, it is, it is a perilous thing to be a child actor.
And, you know, it's so fickle. And even as adults, full on aging adults from my, myself, uh, it's still hard not to pay attention to who's up, who's down, who's where.
And that's with, I didn't have anybody recognize me on the street until I was 30 years old. That's when I got the late night show.
And I had a lot of grounding before then. So I have no idea.
I think if I had been recognized or had any kind of cachet when i was 11 years old i'd be a mass murderer yeah so i yeah and a very good one methodical it's it is a very uh uh permissive culture that if you have some sort of success as a kid you kind of get used to you know it's like it's like it's junk food and, you know, kids don't have any self-control for junk food. They eat it all up.
Right. And you're also learning how to be, how to convincingly be somebody else at the exact time you're trying to figure out who you are.
So it's just a big mind fuck too. And it's, it is a big, it's a minefield to go through.
And I'm really fortunate that somehow my sort of, you know, stock engine came out able to kind of navigate that, you know, somewhat decently. I mean, I am nuts.
I'm crazy, but I'm functional. I said you're squirrely.
I didn't say you were crazy. Squirrely, hard to get a beat on you.

I know there's a lot of stuff there.

I don't want to go near.

You can get near the cage.

Just don't start poking around in it.

I would drive cross country with Darnett, Sean, in a second.

You, that's not happening unless, yeah, like you say, there's like a barrier, a caged barrier.

I'm driving a police car.

You can be in the back.

Be in the back with a privacy glass. No, you're in the back.
I'm driving you. Yeah, okay.
I'm dressed as a sheriff and I'm driving you cross country. But there's a cage and you're shackled.
Every now and then I pass you some green tea. But that's about it.
That's all that's happening. It is interesting to me that a important linchpin of your turnaround, which you say is Arrested Development, the guy behind that, one of the guys behind it, and the narrator of the show, Ron Howard, famously one of the few examples of a child star who just nailed it in his adult life and seemed to make every right call.

Did he ever give you any insight into that world?

I don't know. in his adult life and seemed to make every right call.
Did he ever give you any insight into that world? Only by example. You know, like during the vast wasteland of my 20s, I was in an attempt to try to self-educate.
I'd watch a lot of news. I was a big fan of Charlie Rose i'd watched i'd watch that show religiously and and uh ron howard was on at once and i remember watching his interview and you know ron howard is at all times it seems just about the most gracious magnanimous guy yes you'd ever find and so i'm watching him just be incredibly warm and kind.
And he's not doing that because he needs to kiss Charlie Rose's ass or that he's nervous about being on the show or golly gosh. He's just genuinely that and is not worried about coming across as as an ass kisser or eager or he's just being as kind as he is.
Yeah. And is not worried about masking that because if you grew up in the sort of cynical environment I grew up in, it's, you know, it's like, well, make sure you look like you don't want it, you know, or make sure that girl can't tell that you like her, you know, like, you know, be mean, or when you go on an audition, make it seem like you don't really want it or that it's an inconvenience, whatever, you know, toxic crap I was listening to as a kid.
He was completely at odds with that, with his. So anyway, so I remember sitting there watching that interview and going, if I ever get relevance again, any sort of industry capital again, the greatest thing about it will be that I will be able to be as kind as I want to be and not worry about it coming across as being too eager and wanting the job or, you know.
And then I got Arrested Development, like working for this guy. And, you know, he did all the voiceover.
So he's never really on set. So I never really met him until after the show had been gone for a while.
And eventually I, and I think it was pretty late, maybe four or five years into, I finally had dinner with him.

And I told him this story.

And I told him about what.

Did he narrate the dinner?

And then he told you to fuck off.

He pulled the mask back.

He said, yeah, fold another one.

Jason seemed perplexed.

He wanted the eggplant risotto. But he didn't know if it was going to be too heavy.
Yeah, I think he understood what I was saying, that not only his example kind of provided this North Star for me, but the actual show itself gave me the capital that I was, you know, reaching for, hoping for, that I could stop kind of acting twice going into interview, you know, auditions, you know, kind of like trying to be like, kind of like, oh yeah, what's up everybody, you know, and it's fucking such a douchebag. I was just like, and of course it would make me incredibly nervous because I've got to pull off that performance and now it's time to do the audition.
And, you know, now I got to pull off this. I was just like exhausted.
Well, they say it's, it's, it's exhausting to be a pathological liar because you have to keep all of your stories straight. Right.
And it is exhausting to have to put on a persona. Right.
To then audition for something where you're then another persona. But then if don't get it you have to switch into the persona which is i didn't really need it anyway i'm cool i'm good uh it's just garbage you know so thankfully um i kind of got through that to a certain extent um but it was it was painful i mean my 20s were just like it would it was fun but a real um a real sort of head trip for me because i'm transitioning from like all of that fame and success and easy road to not making as much money not having the not having the actual sustenance to to because my confidence came from my work yeah now that I don't have the work, now what do I have the confidence on? You know, it's just like, aye, aye, aye.
Nine people out of 10 who went through what you went through would not, it would not have worked out. Can you identify something in you that helped you say, okay, I'm partying too much.
This has to stop. I need to, there is an inner resource that you have that 90% of people in your situation would not have.
But I, and I, perhaps, but I, I, I think everybody's got it because all it was, was just goals and foresight and vision. And, and, you know, everybody has a way they like to think of themselves.
And there are certain things that you can't do and certain things that you want to achieve and incorporate that, that make that vision legit. Yeah.
You know, I knew I wanted, I wanted to be a dad. I wanted to be a father and i'm sorry i want to be a husband a dad and i wanted to direct a movie with as an adult that was what i always said to myself as a kid and so i knew i had to do certain things to make those three things happen um i had to build up sort of acting capital to be able to say hey now i want to direct to direct the famous t-shirt.
Right. Um, I couldn't be like, you know, a fucking drug addict and a drunk, uh, and expect to have any sort of relationship that was, that had any legs.
Um, and then, you know, being a father follows that. So, um, so I, I knew I had to kind of wind down the, the, at some point.
And I didn't know, do you get rid of all that stuff and then the work will come? Or should I wait for the work to come to be sort of like, you know, the little pacifier that allows me to like stop doing all the other stuff? It ended up kind of all happening at the same time, which was nice. But yeah, I guess it would just be that.
So I don't think I'm not that special. I think everybody wants certain things for themselves in the future.
And I think it's just about having perhaps the discipline to say, okay, you kind of got to do X, Y, and Z to get to A, B, and C. And at what point do you want to start to implement that plan? I've never, ever had any ambition to direct anything.
I admire that skill immensely. And I think part of me is a little curious if someone put a gun to my head and said, you have to direct something, what I would do.
You'd be great. But I don't understand what it is.
But I know that you directed quite a bit on Ozark. You must have been watching the whole time i mean this was go back to when you're a kid where you're watching other people make these decisions someone explained to me once a lot of directing is making choices do you want this or do you want that you know so you're watching that and saying i want to be doing that yeah it was it was uh it was michael landon on Prairie.
So right, right as I was starting to like, you know, I'd done a couple of years of commercials and stuff like that, but, but I was starting to really kind of notice what, what this magic trick is of making fake life. Like, okay.
So you point like, you know, cause we all look through the paper towel tube when we're a kid, you know, and like, you know, you kind of like, you know, you make that little tunnel that you're seeing stuff through and outside that tunnel and stuff you can't see, like that's where all the gap can be, right? Like the microphone and the lights and all that stuff. And so just inside that tube needs to be pristine.
And so I started to, I started to watch directors and crews kind of create this fake life. And Michael Landon was the director, executive producer, um everybody loved him what did you what was he like i just because i grew up he was my brother my brother is obsessed with bonanza and has been his whole life and has made sure that all of us around him have watched almost every episode of bonanza so um even though, yes, I know he went on to Little House on the Prayer and everything.

I just can't believe that's Joe Cartwright.

I can't believe you even knew him.

Right, right, right. What was he like as a person?

George Clooney would be like the perfect comparison today.

His ease with people, with the process, with the business, with just Joe on the street. Women are crazy about him.
Guys want to be his buddy. And so watching him juggle all those balls and kind of be this leader and presence on a set and be kind with people, but also be kind know, stern boss if he needs to.

That was pretty inspirational.

And so that's kind of where it started that.

And my dad never really took me to the park to throw the ball.

He'd take me to, you know, art houses, you know,

to like watch foreign films and show me what directing is and what acting is and what's good and what's bad.

I was thinking, what if he only took you to art houses

and showed you bonanzas?

Here's one where this...

I'm sorry. what directing is and what acting is and what's good and what's bad.
I was thinking, what if he only took you to art houses and showed you bonanzas? Here's one where this, these cattle rustlers come to town. Michael.
They were going to show a Truffaut film here, but we'd shut that down. This is going to be the bonanza where, okay, all right.
But that's beautiful that he did that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, in retrospect, it was because it kind of planted the seed.

Yeah.

Yeah. And then it just kind of went on from there.

And I was always sort of tracking it and wanting to do it.

And so paying attention to every set I was on after Little House.

And then I actually went and spoke to the producers of the Hogan family when I was 18 to see if there could be a slot for my dad to direct an episode. And while I was talking to the producers about that, they said, yeah, for sure.
And do you want to direct one? And I said, yes, please. And I ended up doing that.
And and then that was just sort of like, well, I guess now I can, now I can do this. It's a different thing, directing stuff in front of a studio.
It's more like directing a play, you know, to, to be fair. Um, but still it was, I got me my DGA card and, and I thought, you know, and then I, I was really pursuing that career when Arrested Development came around.
I was, I was following, um, Jim, uh, uh, James Burroughs around, Jimmy Burroughs around and watching. He's a, for the listeners who don't know, he was like the most famous.
The Babe Ruth of all the great, cheers. Yeah, sitcom director.
Sitcom director's friends. Yeah.
I was like, well, when I turn my history of doing sitcoms into a positive instead of the negative that I felt it was at the time and let all that experience maybe get me hired as a director. And so I wanted to be like the new Jimmy Burroughs.
And then, uh, Arrested Development came along. I, my quick, this just popped in my head, but literally a couple of months ago, I had to go back to Boston, uh, quickly, uh, see my family.
And I always stay in the same hotel and I get on my elevator to go down to the lobby and it stops on another floor and Jimmy Burroughs gets on. Really? And this is a hotel that's right on the park, uh, literally maybe 60 feet from the cheers bar.
Yeah. And I'm headed down and Jimmy and I are talking and I said, hey, Jimmy, want to go over to the Cheers bar? Hang out.
And he went, yeah. No.
It's like, I don't know why that popped into my head. I've been in there.
But yeah. That's a cool spot.
Sure. People go there.
It's like people that go to the central, one of the central perk coffee shops and think they're going to see Jennifer Aniston. They feel cheated that they're not.
It's a bar. But yeah, I think the salvation is, if you get into the work, like for me, when I hear you talk about all this is that you were

very interested in making the stuff and the work. And to me, that was always the salvation.
I wanted my goal. If you asked me when I was 20, what's your goal? I would say I would like to have a body of work, which sounds incredibly pretentious, but that's what I wanted.
People could like it. they could hate it.
But I just wanted when I was done to have stuff that I had made that- As a writer. As a writer, as a whatever, just as a performer, as a whatever.
Did you have on-camera aspirations at that time? It's so funny. I knew that I could get a job as a writer, but I always was a performer as a writer.
So I was always the guy that would get up and do stuff. At Saturday Night Live, I would do things in front of the other writers, start doing something, and they would be laughing.
And Lauren would notice this. And Lauren would notice it.
But also the writers would say, that's a sketch, that guy you're doing right now. And I'm just doing it because something's wrong with me.
Or you're trying to make it more, you're trying to get your point across to the other writers that this is what it needs to be. Or this sketch works if you play it paranoid.
And so you've got to like do it. But not even that.
There were often times when I wasn't pitching a sketch, I was just doing. Yeah.
You've seen it, Sona, where I'll just come in and i'll just be doing something that strikes me as funny or odd and that's all you do yeah that's kind of all i do i don't know the real you right and then we got to snl and i was doing that for someone like oden kirk or smiegel and they said no that's a sketch that's a that's. That's a sketch.
And I was like, oh, that's just a thing that I do. And then that was many of the things that I've, over the years that I wrote for SNL or any of the things that I, over the years, did on late night were just things that I did.
Sometimes I would do them in the shower.

Right.

And my wife, to this day,

will hear me in the shower saying,

you've got some nerves.

And, um...

Well, maybe I'll just grown accustomed to it,

but that's where that came from.

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What did,

have you ever,

and I apologize if it exists and i haven't seen it but have you ever spent time doing multiple characters along with your writing as you would have done had you been uh on camera at snl what do you mean well like like do uh inhabiting multiple characters playing some french pastry chef and then playing a a mechanic and then as you do as a cast member i think we've done bits where i've been different people uh but not not on the talk show no right where you like dress up in costume and there's a wig and there's prosthetic

just like an snl cast yeah yeah yeah it was it's interesting because i always when i was at snl i never looked at dana carvey or any of those guys and thought i could be doing that because i always knew the difference i always knew there have been things uh where we would shoot something um we did something with liev schreiber

once which was a parody of that show uh studio 60 remember there was a show that was a very serious yeah the aaron sorkin show kind of a he took a west wing approach to like a saturday night live and and people were giving him a hard time for it we decided to do a parody of it and so Liev Schreiber, we got him to play me.

So Liev Schreiber has the Conan hair.

And I, the producer. And I'm talking to Conan, and I'm saying, God damn it, Conan.
You know, women want to be with you. Men want to be you.
You've got it. Oh, the looks, the shots.
And Liev Schreiber's brooding. And I'm talking about Conan in this, you know.
What was this on? It was on the late night show, you know. I mean, we did thousands and thousands of hours of late night shows and we would fill.
So I guess the point is that for me, it's always been. I'm going to quote my dad and I quoted him many times on the show with this exact same line, but he always said you're making your living off of something that should probably be treated because it's very manic and I can't not do it.
And I do it. I just got back from a vacation with my wife and kids.
I did it there. They just tune it out.
They're not interested. They, you know, as kids, I would call my kids together when my wife was not around.
And I would say, kids, kids, your mother's gone and I need to talk to you. And they would gather around me and they would look up at me and go, is this real or is this a bit? And I'd go, it's just that I think.
And they'd go, it's a bit. And walk away.
So it's that 24 seven. I love that.
I love being just a total whack job with my kids sometimes, but it's such an unreliable audience.

I mean, they're determined not to laugh.

Of course.

Right?

So it's pain for you and for me to do that.

But also I love it.

Because if you can crack them, you've got something.

But also it's as it should be.

Yeah.

If your children are laughing and saying,

God, dad, you're the greatest. You got a problem.
You have a real problem. They want something.
Yeah, exactly.

my my my eldest uh franny she's 18 she um she's she's just recently i don't know like in the last year gotten into uh directing like she's starting to really look at films and and and kind of

understand what a director does. And so she wants to pursue that.
And, um, and I guess somebody, and she, she's never watched anything I've done. Now, not maybe one, I think it's weird for her to see me pretending to be somebody else, or she also has a real hard time with me getting hurt um and like and i'm often you know getting the pie in the face you know yeah um and so i guess somebody in her class or somebody started watching ozark or something and went up to her and said you know hey you know your dad and this thing's really good i just remember like about a year or so ago she came home and and she was like, she basically, well, I don't remember the words, but she basically said for the first time kind of, so you do this.
You do this thing that I'm interested in. Tell me about what.
But that is so healthy. Well, no, it's healthy, yes.
But it was also so exciting for me that like she has an appreciation, or she thinks what I do is cool or that she might realize, oh, dad can answer a question for me. How do you do that shot? Is that a steady cam? Is that Dolly Tracker? Anyway, so now we've been having an incredible time bonding over films and directing and things like that.
But it's great that they don't give it up

until it's something that's really kind of interesting. And in other words, she's not fascinated with my fucking job that I just go off and go do.
Just like any kid wouldn't be like, hey, dad, tell me about your day at work today. What was it like at the office? Who cares? You know, it's just be my dad.

And I appreciate that because it's kind of, I had a bit of a hybrid experience of that at best as, as a kid, you know, there wasn't really that, that really healthy dynamic of deference to, to, to parents as you're sort of, you know, the adults you, you, you aspire to be, and you could only ever reach for, and you'll never be as old as as old as them. Like I was colleagues with my parents at a very early age.
You were peers. Yeah, exactly.
You worked with each other. Exactly.
And so that was sort of, I had to learn to adapt and not, you know, live a childhood that didn't really have that. So I love that she has sort of kept me at this place.
It was like, yeah, dad goes to work. Who gives a shit? You know, like he's just's just he's just my dad i remember doing the late night show and bruce springsteen was performing on the show and patty's there his wife is there and then at one point he's talking and then he leaves the room and i said something like um he had just told a joke or something and she like rolled her eyes and i was she said yeah when he does his jokes around the kids they're like god dad and I was like that's Bruce Springsteen but no in the best in the very best way they're annoyed oh god he's actually starting underwater actually you? He talks about the iconic Dancing in the Dark video where he pulls Courtney Cox on the stage at the end.
In his biography, his autobiography, he talks about pulling her up on stage and he does the dance with her. His kids finally saw that years later.
And they were horrified. At that dance move.
At at his dance move and they just relentlessly gave him shit for it like went back on it and kept showing it to him and going what the fuck are you but you know in 1985 right that was the that was it right it was amazing but and he was bruce springsteen but no it doesn't matter anymore now it's just this embarrassing footage you found of your dad. How old are your kids? My son is 19 and my daughter's 21.
And how, so then when you started doing the late night show, that was, what was that? 93. So I was 30 years old.
I didn't meet my wife. I didn't meet my wife for another 10 years.
So how were they, I mean, when they started, when they were old enough to kind of intellectualize that that's my dad up on that billboard, how did that go? I think they just, they took it really well, but I'll never forget. I did shows at Comic-Con, Spreckles Theater, huge theater.
My wife, L wiza came down she brought my son who's kind of interested in sci-fi he was a little kid at the time maybe five yeah he sat in the theater he saw the band playing he saw fans right i mean places packed three-tiered theater i mean uh and up until now you've just been just that annoying dork around the house. Yeah.
And so he's watching it. And then I come out and I do the show.
And he sees people getting really excited and laughing and having a good time. And then he's walking out with his mom, my wife.
And we're walking out. He's walking out and he said to her,

when I grow up, I want to do something

where there's no stage and no audience.

And it was just like, I want to do the opposite

of what that guy's doing.

Because he thought that was sort of, it was scary.

I think for whatever reason, he just knew

whatever that guy's doing, that's not what I'm going to do.

And he's highly intelligent and very good and has a completely different skill set than i do not interested in doing no no not at all but uh he'll actually have a legitimate life right exactly exactly one that's built on credentials yes and actual knowledge right yeah. Right, yeah.
Knowledge of real things. Not like us.
Yeah. No, we're show folk.
And I've always kind of liked that for some reason, bizarre reason in the mid 20th century, being in show business started to have cachet. And then it has only grown.
And I'm someone who reads a lot of history and I studied history. Before the 20th century, for hundreds and hundreds of years, people that worked in show business were thought of as, just use the back door.
And no, you're not, you cannot, you can't come in. You do your thing and then get the fuck out of here and take your little, you know.
And I've always thought, I do think that's the way we should be treated. Instead of throwing ourselves award shows.
No, exactly. I've always thought, no, we're show folk.
We're damaged. We're pure entertainment.
We're the jesters, you know, that should come in and out through the back door. Yeah.
Right after the food comes. I should not be given the food that the people other people are getting i should get some cold food well i mean you're you're right i mean we're not doing anything that complicated you know we're not doing things that are vital we're not building infrastructure you know we're like we're not solving problems we're creating problems we creating problems.
We're pacifying people in between their thoughts.

You know?

I'm glad I got you to admit that your life is a sham.

Oh, my God.

But it's certainly not like, you know.

You've gone too far.

You've gone too far.

I think what you and I do is vitally important,

and I'll also posit more important than anything being done in science, in medicine. You're right about that.
Yeah. So you've completely changed your mind from 15 seconds ago.
I want to wrap this up, but I do want to tell you that you started off this interview by selling yourself very short in a way that I found kind of appalling, which is, I think what you do on Smartless and also what you did so beautifully on Arrested Development and what you've really done in your career is you're channeling something that to me is very essential. You're fucking so smart as a performer, as an actor.
And seriously, I think, I mean, Arrested Development is a great example of where you're holding, you are the center of all of that. You're seeing everything.
And yes, that is a huge job. That is, and that could have been done wrong a billion different ways.
And so- I appreciate you saying that for sure. But I also think I would know if, if, you know, Arnett and Hayes babbling the two of them, I couldn't listen to that for six seconds.
You know, just. Without, yeah, without the third color going in there, you've just got red and green.
You've got red and then also a very annoying red and a very annoying green and then you're this like essential taupe yes it's just it's surrounding azure no i'm uh i we we fuck around a lot and uh but i anytime uh that you would come to my home be at a christmas party or anytime would be a big deal. It'd be a huge deal.
A huge deal. It would be a big deal for me.
Complete joke. And my son's hair would fall out and his teeth.
And before you kick me out, I would like to thank you for being so nice to us at Smartless and helping us out repeatedly. It really, you know, you learn a lot about people when it's so easy to say no in our business.
You know, there's layers of people between the ask and the answer that you can easily slide in a no or I'm busy or something like that. You never have.
I'll be honest with you. I love playing with you guys.
It is that simple. I've never had a real conversation with will arnett no we only play to the point where we were scolded once by one of your wives yes yeah uh yeah knock it off you two before we even got started right it was knock it off my wife says the same thing with the fucking bits do you guys ever really guys just suck do you guys ever really she'll come home all the time and she'll say yeah what what did will feel about uh the the party last night or the dinner yesterday or something yeah uh i don't know you like the food no no no did he talk about no do you guys never you guys never process anything it's like well that but like dudes don't really process shit like if there a problem, we figured out.
Right. But we're not sitting in there just like kneading the bread, you know, about yesterday, you know, and figuring out what the side door might think of it.
It's just always through the front door on everything. That's why anytime there's been any kind of smartless ask from the very beginning, I thought that's being asked to go play, go play ball with three people who you love to play ball with.
And I'm using that analogy because I'm a terrible athlete. And so I'm being very vague about play ball.
Which ball? Shut up, Sona. Go pass the old puck around with your mitt.
But anyway. You've always been an easy play like you were always my favorite talk show to do because you can do those pre-interviews till the cows come home and most shows stick on them always when you sit down and start talking with you you would just start a conversation and then all of a sudden the 10 minutes would go by yeah you know You know, it's such a nerve wracking thing for me doing talk shows.

It's like crazy.

That's why this format.

Or at least it used to be.

This format's so much fun.

Truly starting to do your show

was like,

oh, it can be like this.

It was great.

It was great, great, great.

Well, I'm glad we like each other now.

Yeah.

Let's just throw a two-man party.

Yes.

Just the two of us.

Make sure everyone knows about it. It's just you and I.
It and I, even Aniston can't get in. She can serve us.
She can bring us the food. Jennifer's outside.
Yeah. Yeah.
Tell her we're good. We're good.
God bless you. Jason Bateman.
Go forth. Continue to do amazing stuff.
My best to the gang over at Smartless. I will tell them.
I'm feeling now even better about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Wow, we've notched from an 11% acceptance of me to an 18%.
It was pretty good at the beginning. 18%.
Even better now. All right, take care.
Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gourley.
Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Leow.
Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair.
And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns.
Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn.
You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message.

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And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. It's time to play ball in Academy Sports and Outdoors.
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I'm a jockster. I'm not a nerd.
No. I like to beat up on the nerds.
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