Shams Charania Reveals His Journey To Becoming The #1 NBA Reporter | Digital Social Hour #120

You were able to network your way to the top.

You're probably the most known reporter, you and Woge, in the whole NBA.

How were you able to just climb that ladder over the years?

Go to the NBA.

That was my dream, was playing in the NBA.

But once I realized that wasn't going to happen, I'm like, how can I stay around the game?

If I'm not going to play, how can I keep playing the game of this basketball life?

And so I always loved writing.

I always loved the NBA.

So I kind of just combined both passions.

When I was, you know, 18, 19, 20 years old, it was a lot of cold calls, cold texts.

And, you know, when you reach out to people, they don't ask how old you are.

That's not the first time.

It's It's really about how much match, you know, how mature you are, how professional you approach the conversation.

Because you were the youngest one coming up, but people took you serious because of what you provided.

No one knew how old I was, really, until you know, they had to.

Until they tried to buy you a drink or something?

Yeah,

I'm like,

Welcome back to the digital social hour, guys.

I'm your host, Sean Kelly.

Here are my co-host Charlie Cavalier and our guest today, Sean Stirania.

How's it going, man?

Sean, great, great having you.

Beautiful studio you have.

Glad we're able to make this happen in Vegas.

Absolutely, man.

It's been a cool summer league.

What have you thought about it so far?

I mean, definitely like every year, Summer League, as far as the fan base, like now you go to the arena, the amount of fans that are here is and it's packed.

Obviously, Victor Web and Yama being a big part of that, but yeah, I mean, the arena is just has an amazing environment, great crowd.

And it's not just for Victor's games.

Like, you'll go to like a, you know, any, any, any, any of these games at either the Cox Pavilion, Thomas and Mack, it's, uh, it's, it's filled with fans.

So it's definitely, my first summer league was 2013.

I was doing the headlines, didn't know anyone.

I was 19 years old.

So from then to now, I'm definitely way more comfortable.

Yeah.

But the amount of fans and like hype and interaction there is,

it's gone exponentially higher.

That's sick.

Yeah, it seems like every year it just steps up.

And now they announced the tournament, right?

Yeah, the in-season tournament.

You're talking about regular season, right?

Yeah,

so there's gonna be the in-season tournament,

all 30 teams playing for basically an in-season, regular season championship type, you know, during the first half of the season.

And I think there's gonna be a lot of excitement around it.

Obviously, a little bit more prizes, more money for the players that

win the entire championship for the in-season tournament.

So I'm curious to see how that's gonna play out and how these guys are able to get the

gumption to go play at a higher level for some of these regular season games that might not have had the same meaning in past years.

Yeah, because 82 games, it's tough to

lock in for that amount of time.

Yeah, and this will give a new twist to it, right?

Like those national TV games will have a little bit more

behind it, and you're going to be playing for something and the winning team getting a million dollars.

That's going to be big.

It's nice to see because there's a lot of those

mid-January, mid-February games where it's just a little in the season.

Do you think people are going to start counting if they win this in-season tournament?

Not quite like a ring, but do you think they're going to give it a little bit more credence?

And like, I won, I'm a winner, I'm a champion sort of thing from winning an in-season tournament?

Yeah, I mean, I don't,

it's always going to be hard to like surpass the Larry O'Brien trophy.

Like, that's always going to be the number one thing.

But I think from the perspective of

something else to play for and just heightening up some of these regular season games, the financial, you know,

the financial prize is going to be one thing.

But I think

you're going to want to compete at a high level, especially when there's a championship of any length on the line.

And I think it's going to be good for these teams to build the right habits early in the season.

But I think overall, what we're seeing now in the NBA is just the amount of parity that exists in regular season, I think does mean more than it ever has.

Because last year, you went into playoffs.

like maybe 10 out of the 16 teams probably went into the playoffs saying, I think we can win a championship.

And in past years, it's really just one or two teams.

So

I think that's got to be something the league is really happy about.

I didn't know who would win it last year, and I haven't felt that way in a while.

Yeah, it was crazy.

We were talking about all during the playoffs.

Yeah.

Seeing Joker obviously turn it on after a while.

It was fun to see.

Yeah.

So you've gotten to see Victor play in person.

What did you think about his first two games?

And do you see him just dominating?

Yeah, I mean, listen, I don't know if he's going to dominate right off the bat, but I think you're seeing the signs from him that show you why he's going to be one of the more most unique players, definitely in the league next year and for years to come.

I mean, when you think about,

you know, he's able to ball handle, he's able to move, the way he's able to, you know, crossover like he's Kevin Durant, the way he's able to post up

like Shaq at different times.

Like he has so many elements of these all-time greats in his game.

Now it's just going to be about putting it all together, you know, continuing to work on his body, getting repetition, getting rhythm, strengthening his body.

And I think once he puts all of that together, you could just tell he's going to be a force.

I mean, just his first game, I know statistically people were down on him, but

very down.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like one of the first plays in the game that he had, he literally got the ball three-fourths, length of the court, dribbled the ball up all the way,

passed a couple defenders, found a guy with an assist for a layup.

Like, that's stuff that we haven't seen from a guy his size and do it, how fluidly he does it.

And there was another play that first game where he had literally had a crossover.

He missed a layup, but he had a crossover where he went by a guy like he was Kevin Durant.

And so at 7-5,

he's going to be one of the more unique, if not the most unique players in the league next year.

And we saw the last game, he's able to make some more shots, feel a lot better.

He even said the first game, I don't know what I was doing out there.

Second game, he was getting his rhythm.

And now the Spurs just made it official.

He's not going to play the rest of the summer league.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, so breaking news on the podcast.

That second game was going to be.

Last game, 2010, basically 27 points, 10 plus rebounds.

And his summer league's over.

Wow.

They broke down the math very specifically for him.

He actually turned down playing for France in the FIBA World Championship this summer because he literally did the math based off of how the Mets 92 team did the last year he played with them.

And the next two NBA seasons, they had basically worked it out that he was going to play like 192 games over the next like 24 months.

That's a lot.

And when you're just, you know, in this era of load management, when you're that big, I mean, feet break very easily.

They want to like protect him as much as possible.

And planning ahead, why play 10 more summer league games?

I mean, you need this guy to be existing for 20 more years.

Yeah, I mean, I think guys that size, there's always going to be that.

I mean, Greg,

Gorzingus,

even Kevin Durant, a few years in his career, he had a Jones fracture, I believe.

So there's always going to be that fear with guys that size, but you can't really play with fear.

You can't play like that.

And I know just being around Victor Wemanyama the last...

Couple years and definitely especially during this draft process the way his mentality is how locked in he is his attitude like his genuine love for the game game.

There's guys at the age of 19 with this much hoopla, this much energy around him, this much hype around him.

You can get lost in it, but he's so focused.

He's so dialed in.

And I really think when you're around him, you talk to him, you talk to people around him, he's so locked in and focused on greatness.

It's special to see, and you want to see him see that through.

Yeah, I mean, Britney Spears saw that firsthand.

I love that.

Oh, God.

So you're...

Your industry is all about connections.

You were able to network your way to the top.

You're probably the most known reporter, you and Woge, in the whole whole nba how were you able to just climb that ladder over the years yeah i mean i think for a lot of people it's easy to see the the end of the end you know the end picture right like this year like oh how's you know how's he done this but i mean i've i've i started on this path my sophomore year of of high school um in 2010 and so i mean i wasn't doing at this level obviously i wasn't breaking trades or signings or anything like that but i was starting my path in writing and i think just finding my voice after i after i realized i wasn't going to go beyond high school basketball going to college and play basketball and go to the NBA.

That was my dream, was playing in the NBA.

But once I realized that wasn't going to happen, I'm like, how can I stay around the game?

How can I keep playing?

You know, if I'm not going to play, how can I keep playing the game of this basketball life?

And so I always loved writing.

I always loved the NBA.

So I kind of just combined both passions, started writing a lot.

And I think from there, just, you know, 2010, 2011, 2012, when I was, you know, 18, 19, 20 years old, there was a lot of cold calls, cold texts, and, you know, reaching out to people, any number any contact i can i can find and just hope that i can um you know when you reach out to people they don't ask how old you are right that's not the person it's really about how much match you know how mature you are how professional you approach the conversation and i just tried to approach every conversation uh professionally i feel like i'm an old soul anyway um and so i i i think for me it's been just a gradual going to games covering games going in person like my first game i covered in 2012 like that was big for me right you know actually being around the players, interviewing the players in person,

seeing league execs, agents, things like that.

And then my first summer league, 2013, I think that was like a game changer for me because I was in a very uncomfortable position because I was around, you know, all these people who I might know their name, but I've never seen them.

They definitely don't know who I am at that point.

So I really just had to, you know, what's the saying?

You know, you live in the uncomfort.

you know and that makes you you know even better and on the other side you you hopefully learn from all the uncomfortable moments and uncomfortable positions you put yourself in and hopefully you thrive off that and 2013 summer league was big and from there it's just building building building and now one story leads to the next and you know you break a couple 10 days you break a couple regular season deals you break one or two big trades and I think you just keep you know adding up those moments stacking up those moments and I think

you know treating those relationships with with with fairness with with trying to build equity and not just reaching out to people when you need something right right just providing value yeah yeah and that's that's sick.

I like what he said about the age because you were the youngest one coming up, but people took you serious because of what you provided.

Yeah.

I mean, no one asked, no one knew how old I was really until, you know, they had to, you know, once I started meeting them, right?

And maybe they saw like, yo, you look like.

Until they tried to buy you a drink or something?

Yeah,

I'm like, first of all, I either don't drink or I can't drink right now legally.

Or they saw me, they're like, you know, he looks like a baby.

And then you kind of like, yeah, I'm 21.

I'm 22.

And then you get the occasional, like, you know, why are you here?

Like, why aren't aren't you out partying with your friends?

Like, why aren't you out doing this?

Like, why aren't you out

getting hammered?

And I'm like, I love this too much.

Like, I'm too, like, I live my life.

I feel like very disciplined.

And, you know, I kind of know what goals I want.

You know, I feel like I've set goals for myself every year.

Yeah.

And then I just,

you know, I try to obviously get to them and then set more goals.

It's just like continually set goals for yourself.

Continue to hopefully achieve them, set new goals.

And I think that's the one way I feel like I'm never satisfied.

You know, I never feel like I've made it per se.

I love that because there's such a notion that you should just party in your 20s, but I feel like you should just grind.

I agree.

That's like your prime years.

Hey, man, I'm sitting with the

right-minded people right now.

So I definitely feel the same way.

So, what is one trade that needs to happen in the NBA?

Just has to just like right now.

Yeah, just you cannot understand why it's not happening.

Damian Lillard to Miami.

I think for who?

Well,

does Tyler Hero have to bounce?

Tyler Hero would almost certainly have to be a part of any Damian Lillard package if you're Miami.

And not even necessarily to Portland.

I think you find a third team.

And from what I'm told, there are multiple teams out there that would give at least one first-round pick for Tyler Hero.

So you're Miami.

You have two first-round picks of your own.

You're able to go get another first at least.

You might be able to get even more than one first from another team for Hero.

So you're able to go get another first for Hero.

So you have potentially at least three first-round picks you can trade to Portland.

And then

you add that with expiring contracts, maybe a young player, maybe some other additional assets like second-round picks, etc.

You have a pretty compelling offer that you can make to Portland for Damian Lillard.

And I think that's the, you know, when you talk about the remaining topics around the league, Free ANC has pretty much come to a halt.

There are a few other few guys left, Christian Wood, Kelly Uber, PJ Washington.

I'm still, you know, you still got to monitor.

I think the Damian Lillard trade, I think, is definitely something that's at the top of mind around the league.

Yeah, I've heard rumors of it.

So do you have to be glued to your phone?

Because you breaking these trades first is important, right?

Yeah, I mean, for sure.

I spend a lot of time on my phone.

I can tell.

You know, it's a big part of my life for sure.

You know, my family members understand it.

It's good.

Like, for me, my mom, my sister, my brother, you know, my dad, like, they understand it.

You know, there's not like this weird tension.

It's like when you're on a date, right?

You leave the date for like 20, 30 minutes, and then you come back and you're like, yeah, this is this is.

You have a legit reason to be using your phone at the dinner table.

At least least my family thinks so.

Yeah, so

it does.

It's all legit.

Everyone listening, let the man be on his phone, please.

So, but no, I mean, you know, during busy times of the year, trade deadline, free agency, draft, you know, you know, you're gonna be on your phone, right?

You know, most of you.

Right now is busy, right?

Yeah, summer leaves.

Yeah, most of your living, you know, day, you know, when you're sleeping, obviously, there's not like a microchip, you know, yet that you can put.

You're gonna get Neuralink?

I think I care about my health too much for that.

But typically, there's no safe microchip or Neuralink that you can put on your head quite yet.

So, right now, you know, I try to get my rest.

And when I'm up,

I just saw a stat, like the average American five and a half hours on your phone now.

I would have guessed more, honestly.

Yeah, compared to when iPhones came out, I think it was like 30 minutes.

Well, let's just say I'm not your average human, right?

At least when it comes to screen time, probably double it for you.

Yeah,

they're trying to get all of our iPhone.

Maybe quadruple.

So, who's going to be better next year, the Suns or the Warriors?

That's a great question.

You know, I'm not really good at picks.

I don't really do picks.

I think both teams, you know,

you have to think they've elevated, you know, getting Chris Paul in, Dario Sarich in.

I think Golden State has done a good job this offseason.

They've doubled down on their identity, on themselves, bringing back Draymond Green on that contract.

I think there was a lot of...

The Grizzlies were the one team that was really, really really passionate about going and getting a guy like Draymond Green.

Obviously, they go out and get Marcus Smart.

You're able to get that veteran culture setter.

I think both guys would have been amazing.

Imagine getting both guys, you know, both Marcus Smart and Draymond Green if you're in Memphis.

Crazy.

But they get Marcus Smart and Draymond Green.

He, I think in his heart of hearts, he wanted to stay in Golden State.

He gets a deal done.

He stays.

And I think you double down your identity.

Go get a veteran player and Chris Paul.

And I think it's go time now.

And when you look at Phoenix, going and getting Brad Beale is one thing.

But now they've surrounded this team with a bunch of minimum salary guys.

I mean, they went out and got Eric Gordon, Utah Watanabe.

They've really upgraded their team on multiple fronts.

Drew Eubanks from Portland, they signed him on a minimum contract.

He's very underrated.

Going out and getting like four or five legitimate high-level rotation players that Eric Gordon, he's the guy that turned down...

Minimum deals with Golden State, with Milwaukee.

He turned on more money from other teams, from what I'm told, to go play in Phoenix.

This is a team that is clearly showed like they can go and attract talent, especially Ron Brad Beale and Kevin Durant.

And Devin Booker.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They're looking nasty, man.

And Eric Gordon was like, Eric Gordon in high school and at Indiana.

Everyone forgets how good E.G.

was when he first came in, but he was amazing.

And he's had an amazing career, and he can do all sorts of great things for playoffs.

I think when you're an average player in the NBA, it's easy to forget their high school and college careers.

We were talking to Spencer earlier, and he averaged more points in the NBA than he did in high school and college.

Spencer is one of a kind, a very unique player.

I feel like he's gotten better

the second half of his career than he was his first half.

I mean, obviously, he was in Detroit.

He was up and down there, and then he gets to Brooklyn.

I think his career just takes off.

Then Washington, you know, that was a lot going on there.

He goes to Dallas, leads that team in the Western Commons finals with Luka Donchic and Jalen Brunson.

Now he's back in a leadership position with Brooklyn.

I think second half of the year, I think, was one of the top players and assists in the league.

So he's a guy that I think, you know, he's definitely taking off.

But there's a lot of guys like that, man.

And that's why scouting is very important.

Making sure you identify guys that you feel like could play at a higher level, come NBA time, and not just be

peaking in college.

Yeah, because athleticism is one part of it, but they also need the mindset and other attributes.

Right.

No question.

And I think mentality is important.

Work ethics is important.

How they handle themselves on off days and treatment of body and things like that.

Those are all things that scouts teams teams are identifying on a daily basis.

Yeah, they'd be known if they go out to the club these days.

It's crazy.

I'll just say this.

NBA teams literally go above and beyond to do their research.

They will know everything about you by the time the draft process is over.

There's too much at stake not to.

Yeah.

100%.

I mean, these are guys that are going to be making, like you said, 100 million eventually as they end the league, sometimes 40, 50 million right off the bat.

And when you're a general manager, you don't want to get these picks wrong.

So you're going to try to uncover any stone possible.

Yeah, it's a bad look.

Like the Knicks have a good history of that, but

a bad history, however you want to look at it.

What do you mean?

The Eddie Curry signing was great back in the 2000s.

Come on.

So what's a typical day like for you during the season?

Are you flying out to a bunch of games or are you just working from one spot?

Yeah, I mean,

it's good for me.

I can be remote, but definitely like to go out to games.

Being in Chicago, I'm able to see games, you know, Bulls games, Pacers games, Bucs games.

So that's good for me.

If I have to travel, I'll travel.

A lot of it will be based on my content that I'm working on.

And then I started, you know, I work at the athletic and stadium.

I did do a FanDuel TV last year.

So this past season, I spent, you know, one or two times a month going to L.A., especially the second half of the season for our shows in studio for FanDuel TV.

So

that was, you know, it's good to make it out there.

You can kind of dabble into doing that.

You're able to go to Lakers games, Clippers games, kind of mixing everything at once, get work done, connections done.

game coverage done.

So,

you know, a lot of West Coast travel to L.A.

for FanDuel TV.

But other than that, I'm bumping in Chicago a lot of the time.

It's cold there, man.

It gets cold in the wintertime.

But once you're there, I'm born and raised there.

Okay, so you're just

not.

I want to see you.

I can't.

I'm sorry.

Where do you guys come?

I'm from California.

Now I'm in Nashville.

Got it.

I'm from Jersey.

Now I'm here.

Got you.

Vegas full-time.

It's hot here, yeah.

It's hot as hell out here.

It's hot as hell.

Can we get Nashville an NBA team?

Ooh.

Like, can we just, I got an idea.

I've heard they're in the WNBA mix.

Okay.

I have heard that through my sources.

Jaw is not fine in the West.

So I think they add the team in Vegas, and then they just slide the Grizzlies over to Nashville, which is a better economic market than Memphis anyways.

Is it?

Yeah, way better.

There's a lot more money in Nashville than Memphis right now.

Get the Grizzlies in the Eastern Conference, add the new Vegas team that we all know is coming.

Right?

Yeah, I mean, I think in due time.

In due time.

Yeah.

Listen,

I got asked last year, yo, it's happening within six months.

I said it's probably several years away.

You have the T V deal, then you collect a bargaining agreement.

I think once the league gets past their TV agreement, I think you start to look at expansion and things of that sort.

But I mean, listen, the in-season tournament, Final Four is going to be held in Vegas.

Nice.

There's a lot of stuff being done around Vegas.

Not only NBA, WNBA.

We saw the Las Vegas Aces.

I mean, Kelsey Plum, those guys,

I mean, Becky Hammond

has those women balling out right now.

They took over the city.

Yeah, they took over the city.

So it's clear between them and the Raiders,

NBA can be done here.

Absolutely.

I think

once once the CBA now signed and done, TV deal, I think, you know, Vegas is definitely a prime market.

What did you think of NBA con?

Did you go?

I did not make it there.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, I thought it was interesting that they're going to do that every year.

Yeah, I mean, I think, like I said earlier, Summer League's become such a big landmark event now, more than ever.

It's like definitely times 50 since I was bumper to bumper when I was on the road.

I was like, this is never even last year.

I mean, the traffic has been crazy.

I got to say, I don't know if it's F1.

I don't know if it's UFC.

Right.

You know, the other night.

There's a lot going on here, obviously, Summer League, but the traffic's been crazy.

It's been insane.

It's never been this bad before in Vegas.

It takes me like 30 minutes to get from one hotel to the other.

Yeah.

I mean, at one point last night, two nights ago.

So if you're NBA commissioner tomorrow, what's the first thing you do?

First thing I do.

That's a great question.

I mean, and don't give me something small.

I mean,

I want you to turn the league upside down.

Ooh.

Okay.

Listen,

I think

if you watch the NFL,

the way they're able to make the draft

such a big thing,

and the NBA draft is a big thing as well, but like, it's different.

You know, what if you made it like

open to the

outdoor, open to the fan?

Like, but you know, again, the NBA draft is open to fans.

You know, Barclays Center, Barclays Arena.

Like, it's been done, you know, with fans involved, Madison Square Garden, wherever they held it.

It's a caucus, like, like, it's done around fans.

Um, I don't know, like, could you make it a multi-day thing, two three-day event, two-day event?

There's obviously two rounds you do.

Round one one day, round two the next day.

You put me on the spot.

That's like one of the first things I

idea I could think of right there.

Yeah, they should make it more exciting.

Yeah, I mean, it's a big deal.

Yeah, I mean, as someone who lives in Nashville, who literally watched them do exactly what you just described with the NFL draft on Broadway and take over everything outdoors.

I got to say, though, you know, Adam Silver was big on getting this play-in tournament done.

And I think that's been a major success because you have teams that are fighting for that positioning.

Now like they have something to play for all throughout the regular season, especially the last, like the last week, two weeks of the regular season since the playing tournament's been enacted, it's been by far the most fun, you know, for sure since I've been tracking covering the league.

I love it.

And now you have the in-season tournament.

I think that's gotten a little bit of, you know, people don't know how to take it, but I think you see how the in-season tournament went the play-in tournament went.

You know, I'm very curious to see how Adam Silver pulls off the in-season tournament.

Play-in-tournament got a lot of hate at first, I remember, on social media.

But now it's like the teams that are getting through, like the Miami Heat and the Lakers, just made the semifinals.

And it's like every team has an actual chance.

I think it's good.

I think anything that

dissuades from tanking, I'm on board with.

Anything that gives you more opportunity...

I was disappointed to see the Mavs sit a couple players in the season.

Tanking is a strong word.

I think they purposely did not want to be in the play-in tournament.

It didn't seem like it, yeah.

You know, I think that's a strong way of phrasing it.

But, you know,

do you think that tanking needs do you think it the system needs to be tweaked to avoid people from tanking even more than it already has been?

I don't I don't I mean I you know there's always fines now there's there are different policies that are being enacted

but I don't think this is like a novel concept.

You know, there's been some essence of trying to jockey for lottery draft positioning done for it forever.

So, as much as I think the league would love for there to be a quick fix, I just,

it's tough.

Yeah.

So, forget the stats, just based off your own eyes and experience.

Who's on your Mount Rushmore of players all time?

This is really hard.

Doesn't have to be in order, just top four or five people.

Yeah.

I mean, I think, you know, I'm a Chicago guy.

I've got to go with MJ,

LeBron being this generation, Kobe.

Those are three right there.

At four, you know, four, it's tough for me.

Again, this is my, this is just like guys that I, you know.

This is your starting five.

The aliens have invaded Space James here.

This is your starting five to save the fate of the universe.

I'll go with, I'll go with Magic Johnson.

You got to talk to him up there.

And

probably go, you know.

MJ at the two.

So he needs a center now.

Yeah,

listen, center, you can give me anyone.

Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem.

Okay.

I'll, you know, you What do you guys say?

Yeah, I say Shaq.

Yeah,

I would take Shaq, although I would have Tim Duncan on my team instead of the best.

I think he never really got the flowers that he deserved.

He was a power forward, though, right?

He was a power forward, and his game does not translate well to what is now going on in 2023.

I think.

You think his game wouldn't work right now?

No, I mean, I think he'd make it work, but I think that the way he played then is different now with all the elbow jumpers, a lot of the mid-range stuff that he did, the back-to-the-basket stuff.

You know, even as we saw Spencer talk earlier, like, the back-to-the-basket four is not the thing of the past.

It's cool to see these days that not as athletic players like Jokic and Luka are actually dominating compared to just being insanely athletic.

And do you think we're going to see, right?

I mean, like, this might be the, I'm not even sure the U.S.

team would beat an all-international team right now.

Is this going to keep getting more and more in favor of international players?

Or are we going to fix our AAU system and get back to maybe a little bit more of where we were a few years ago in terms of dominance?

Yeah, I mean, mean, we'll see what happens to the Olympics.

I think that's always a good kind of benchmark.

You know, we have the FIBA World Cups this summer.

But listen, I mean, Giannis, Jokic, and Bede, obviously all being Luca abroad.

Yeah, Luca.

Like,

I think it's only good for the game to have guys like that kind of shining and, you know, provide some good, good balance.

What's next for you, man?

And where can people find out what you're working on?

Yeah, I mean, I'm here at Summer League the rest of the week.

You know, you can obviously catch me on Twitter, Shams Shrania, Instagram, ShamsNBA.

Uh, do all my writing for the athletic, do my video for stadium and fan duel TV.

And uh, you know, I've been kind of at this for a while now, just just got to keep, keep, keep growing and keep getting better.

Love it, man.

Thanks so much for coming on.

Appreciate you guys.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for watching, guys.

Peace.