Inside the Mind of a Maverick: A Poker Pro's Journey to Building a Casino Empire with Eric Persson #3

Welcome to the Digital Social Hour, guys.

I'm here with my co-host Charlie Cavalier and our guest today, Eric Person.

How are you doing?

Great, thanks for having me.

Of course.

How are you enjoying Vegas lately?

Well, I've been here 30 years, so I love Vegas.

You know everything about it.

I'm a rookie.

I just got here two years ago.

Where from?

Jersey.

Ah, you been?

Of course.

Hell yeah.

Any casinos up there?

Yeah, I've been to pretty much all of them, I think.

All right.

So you own over 26 casinos now?

Yeah, 31 casinos.

31 now Yeah.

In Vegas, Colorado, and was it Cali?

No, Colorado, Washington, and Nevada.

Colorado.

Okay, got it.

How did you get started?

Was it an acquisition or did you start with one and scale to 31?

We started by buying the Windover Nugget and the Red Guard Hotel, which is on the border of Nevada and Utah.

service salt lake and that was our first properties and then we just we doubled EBITDA and we just kept buying and growing wow so basically these casinos are extremely profitable cash flow heavy, and you just went all in with it?

Yeah,

we leverage everything I had.

My partner Justin Belcher and I, we personally guaranteed the debt.

We went all in and we crushed it and then we found another partner to take our implied equity and loan us more money.

We just kept buying and growing.

Wow.

When you say you leverage everything you had, do you mean like you were all in?

Like you needed this to succeed no matter what.

There was not another way out?

No, there's no other way out.

We personally guaranteed everything.

We had to put like,

I think the first thing we bought was 43 million.

And coming closing time you know we'd never bought casinos before we were like 64 000 short seems like a rounding year we had to use our fucking credit cards so it was like we were all in with everything we had so during covid you must have got hit heavy then because i remember walking the strip here there was like 10 people in the hotel yeah you know we had like uh 300 and almost 400 million in debt and we were closed so the bills keep coming but we're not making any revenues covet wasn't a lot of fun for me so you must have been on the verge of bankruptcy how did you come back from that?

Well, I mean, we worked with our lenders and we just we all got through it together.

So it's one of those things where we knew the underlying business was going to be there as we're allowed to open back up.

And sure enough, the gaming demand was there and customers came and it was really just the uncertainty of COVID was the scary times.

You know how long you're going to be closed.

You didn't know.

Nobody knew.

But

our lenders was great and

we just did it together.

Did you want to make a pivot to online casinos during that time?

No, no.

The only thing I've ever done is gaming.

And so the online space, like we run sports books in Colorado.

We'll do it soon in Nevada.

But no, land-based casinos, what our focus is.

Right.

Do you ever see cryptocurrency making its way into your casino ecosystem?

Yeah, so we have crypto ATMs that allow people to withdraw money.

And,

you know,

it's a small amount of our transactions.

It was very good for the poker community.

I can tell you that for a few years when Bitcoin was crushing at 60, it made a lot of people have a lot of money.

Obviously, now it's in a little different place, so it's having the opposite effect.

But crypto is one of those things that seems like for people who aren't risk adverse and younger people, you know, they're adapting to it.

And so a lot of the poker community is involved in crypto and they're gamblers, you know, and I think that anybody who says crypto is not gambling is just lying to themselves, you know.

It definitely is gambling.

Definitely.

I saw you mentioned in an interview, you had guidance from billionaires in the casino industry.

How important is it to find a mentor in doing what you're doing?

You know, like, I don't think you can ever properly weight

the influences that come into your life who help you and lift you along the way.

You know, so you learn different things from all kinds of different people, and it's up to you to make the most of every opportunity and find those opportunities.

And it's hard, I think, for someone who's successful to think that, you know, even if I didn't have that opportunity, I'd find some other way to do it.

But the reality is there are people who helped you along the way.

And so there's a big appreciation and recognition for all of them.

And I worked for several billionaires and all of them taught me different things.

They've all made me a stronger manager.

And, you know, my life is, you know, I'm blessed.

So I've been fortunate to, you know, kick ass wherever I've been, I guess.

That's great.

You're also a very skilled and very successful poker player.

Yeah.

How much of that

relates back to business or vice versa?

How much of it intermingles with each other?

Yeah, so I put myself through undergrad in Georgetown a lot playing poker, and so I played a long time and picked up a lot of skills and attributes that I think you carry with you every day, even when you're not playing poker.

I think, you know, in order to be a really successful poker player, you can't be risk-adverse.

And I think to be successful in business, you can't be totally risk-adverse either.

So you got to take appropriate risk.

And I think that's always one of the balances you have in life and you you have in poker and is weighing risk properly and making the right judgments to jump in there and sit on the sidelines and fold when you don't have a winning hand.

So poker is a big part of my life even when I wasn't playing.

But it's a big part of my life now.

I'm playing in some really, really big cash games that are private.

And I'm playing in

some really big televised games that everybody sees.

So I'm having a lot of fun.

I'm building a brand, and I think it's fun to see

some of my YouTube stuff getting four and a half million views.

And it's pretty cool to see them have a brand growing.

So in chess, there's an AI called Stockfish.

It hasn't lost to a human in 10 years.

Do you see something similar happening in poker?

A lot of people make solvers for poker and there's something called GTO, Game Theory Optimal.

And you don't have perfect information like you have in chess and poker.

And so it's not that...

that poker can't be solved.

I think in a large part winning players have sort of solved poker, right?

But is there software that will unquestionably always beat a human?

I think that's probably likely to happen.

And I think there's plenty of software that beats most humans right now.

And I think that there's a variety of different reasons for that.

But,

you know, a computer is never going to feel the pressure of bankroll, for example.

You know, it's just going to play the game.

And it's going to always be able to play the game optimally.

And I think that humans can't necessarily do that.

Humans sometimes are tired and shouldn't play.

Sometimes they're doing drugs, they shouldn't play.

They have all these vices and things that affect them, whereas the computer won't.

And so you know, I think inherently the software is good enough at this point that computers beat most people for a variety of reasons.

Wow.

That's scary.

Very scary.

It's life, man.

You're seeing chat GTO come out.

I'm like, shit.

So it's like, you know, you have to embrace AI.

It's here.

And it'll just get stronger.

And, you know, we believe Elon.

Seems like he's more right than wrong.

We're probably all fucked, right?

So.

Yeah.

Would you get a Neuralink in your brain?

Yeah.

You would?

I think so.

Okay.

Let's go.

That's a 3-0.

We all would get a Neuralink.

All right.

If I knew it was going to work or if I really believe it was going to work, and yeah, why not?

Oh, I love that.

Not a lot of people say yes to that.

People are scared to make that decision.

I don't know.

Not me.

Yeah.

We'll let the Tesla drive us around.

We'll let them take it to Mars and SpaceX and put the Neuralink in there while we're at it.

I mean, I'm not going to jump at the front of the line.

We'll let a few people go first and see what happens.

For sure.

For sure.

But yeah, it comes a time.

I'll jump in there.

Oh, man.

A lot of the things I've read about you, you draw a very big difference between between the largest cash games that you play in and tournament style poker.

And it seems like, and correct me if I'm wrong, you like messing with the tournament players a little bit.

Yeah, I mean,

there's some players who are great players across all spectrums.

Like Phil Ivey is a great player across all spectrums.

Daniel Graño is a great player across all spectrums.

And there's a lot of players who are really good online, but they're not good in cash.

And there's a lot of players who do well in tournaments, but it doesn't translate to cash games.

And Phil Helm is one of those players.

He's just not a great high-limit cash game player.

And, you know, he got his ass kicked this week.

Then he said, you know, I'm going to stop buying in deep.

I'm going to start buying in for $10,000, which is insignificant.

But that's because he's a great tournament player.

And in a tournament, you start with a small amount of chips, you accumulate chips.

And if you win the tournament, you end up with a lot of chips.

And so he's trying to apply what is his winning tournament strategy to a cash game.

And I can't blame him.

He just got mixed up and got confused and thought that he could hang with me, but he really can't.

So it's fine that he goes back to where he belongs, which is the minor leagues.

So what's your best game, heads up?

No, I think my best game is a full ring game at very high limits.

Okay.

Have you ever had a losing year?

Yeah.

I don't know if I had a losing year, but I've definitely had losing periods, and it feels like a year.

So,

you know, I win a pretty high percentage of the time, and when I have losing months, like it's super, super frustrating.

And

some of the games I'm playing, which are very high limit, like $8,000 and $16,000, no limit to hold them, you can lose a million and you can lose more.

And

when you do, when that happens for a month, it's pretty stressful, frustrating.

It certainly starts to permeate your thoughts beyond the game itself.

So, I mean, I understand losing, and I feel it.

I'm fortunate that I'm overall not a losing player, I guess, because I think I'd have to quit.

Right.

What percentage of players do you think actually make money from poker?

Two or three.

Two percent.

Like online, way, way less.

Wow.

Yeah, I think people get confused and they talk about being a winning player and they act like they're a winning player and they don't keep records.

And some players are just recreational players and they know they don't win and they just want to have fun.

And my wife's one of those players.

She just likes to win and you win enough in poker that it's fun.

But overall, she knows she loses.

But she's good with that.

And I'm fine with that because she's having a good time.

Like, there's no expectation for a lot of people that they win.

You know, there's no expectation if you go to the movie theater and watch a movie that you're going to come out with more money than you have.

It costs money.

And so if you enjoy your time playing poker it's pretty much just the same right that's the way i have to look at it like i'm sitting down and paying for the entertainment of enjoying doing something that i'm doing has being a casino owner as well as a you know very high-level poker player ever become messy for you sure you know it's it's one of those things where um

you know i'm i'm i'm building a pretty big company and i'm also building a brand playing poker and I'm playing for what people perceive as large amounts of money and people sometimes you know would wonder, you know, where your focus is, and they don't understand that, you know, you're only streaming, you know, two to three days a month.

And then what happens is, you know, I post clips on social like every other day, but that shit could have been filmed like four or five months ago.

You know, so from their perspective, they're just always seeing new content.

They're thinking, man, you're just playing all the time.

The truth is, you're playing like six days a month or something like that.

But they don't understand that.

And so that sometimes does bleed it over into business because obviously my Maverick Gaming, you know, it's named after my son.

And it's the the most important thing in the world to me besides my family.

Poker is something that I super enjoy and I'm doing it for a purpose and I think it's working and I definitely like to win money.

But you know,

it's one of those things that people can't always properly wait because of social media.

I'm across all channels and I have, you know.

I don't know how many, I have a lot of followers and they send messages and they make clips and sometimes the clips aren't even my clips.

And so, you know, I go viral.

It's kind of fun.

But to, I think some of the people who invest in or give debt to Maverick or whatever, sometimes they'd have questions about that because I don't think they're typically a little bit older and I don't think they're as in tune to social media.

And they, and they, all they see is, man, you lost, you know, four or five hundred thousand dollars.

It's, you know,

what are you going to do?

I'm like, fuck, I don't know.

That was like three months ago.

Like,

I've done a lot of things since then, you know.

Why did you decide to go so heavily on social media this year or last year?

Yeah, it's going on year two.

I saw an opportunity.

I thought that, you know, frankly, I have this company and this company has a valuation of, say, eight times, six to eight times.

And if I create a large brand, that valuation can be more like eight to ten times.

So I can create hundreds of million dollars of value by creating a brand that resonates beyond just the properties themselves.

And so I thought the fastest, cheapest, most efficient way to do that.

would be to take over space that's relevant, which is poker is relevant to gaming.

I knew that I had a talent in it and I was pretty confident that I could work my way into the biggest streams in the world, which I've taken over streaming at this point.

And

it's worked.

So I did it because it's a talent I have and I knew that it could create a lot of implied value for myself, which allows me to grow my company faster.

Right.

So you mentioned that COVID was rough for obviously the casino industry.

Are you starting to see a return to pre-COVID levels of what you want to see, or are you still feeling the burn?

And it depends.

Some jurisdictions are exceeding.

Some are still behind.

I think that life's complicated.

You know, it's like chaos theory and there's all these things that impact so much beyond COVID's over, but now there's inflation and there's

everything costs more and you know, and

labor's tight.

And so there's all these other things.

Like you get past one challenge, there's always another challenge coming.

And so at some point, it's not even about COVID anymore.

And even if the business is the better or it's worse, it's not even because of COVID at this point.

I think we're too far away.

COVID is just part of reality in life.

And, you you know, it's what I, what I will say is that, you know, one of the most fascinating things I saw about COVID, and everybody handled the diver.

You know, I felt very isolated.

I wasn't traveling as much.

And I think that was super hard for a lot of people.

And as the casinos were closed down, they got to open back up.

And you saw

these older people who were coming back to the casinos right away.

And basically, you talk to them.

You're like, man, are you worried about COVID?

And they're like 80.

And they're like, well, my kids have left me.

And I live in a house and I'm by myself.

And

these are my friends, you know, these people in my building are my friends.

And it's like, I don't want to, maybe I'm going to get COVID, maybe I'm going to die, but I don't want to an apartment by myself.

And I'd rather be, you know, socialization is so important to so many people.

I think that gets lost in like a gaming environment.

Like people get focused on, man, because people go into casino, they lose so much money.

My average customer loses less than 70 bucks a day, you know, and they're spending like three and a half hours.

And they think that that's a good value for them.

And, you know, when they're, my properties are small enough, like up in Washington, that when they don't come in, people miss them.

And when someone's on a day off, they're like, where did you go?

And they come back and they tell you all about it.

You know, so I think that's what gets lost sometimes in the gaming community.

And you play poker, so you probably understand that.

Like, you know, you see people and you don't see people and you wonder, hey, what's going on with them?

And

it's always, to people who aren't gamers, it's always about how much did they lose.

And I think that.

That's just not like the first thing that a lot of most gamers are thinking about.

Obviously, there's a small percentage, 2% that probably have problem gaming issues.

And that's not what we're talking about.

And those people probably have comorbidity where, you know, they have drinking problems, drug problems.

And so it's not like addiction is just a part of their life and might be expressed through gaming, but you can fix gaming unless they fix everything else.

They're probably still fucked.

But that's not how most people who gamble are.

Yeah.

You know, you and I aren't gamblers, but we still enjoy being around the people, being the camaraderie of the environment of the casino.

Yeah, it's a good networking spot for sure.

You meet some cool people at the poker table.

You do.

I mean, what would it take for you to get into, what game would you play if you were going to start going to the casino every day?

It's got to be poker because you're player against player.

That's probably the best odds, right?

I think so.

I mean, if you're willing to do the work and put in the time, you can become a profitable poker player.

And at the end of the day, the casino games are stacked against you.

Right.

So unless you're taking all consideration like comps and a bunch, there's some advantage gaming customers who are very few and far between.

Poker is probably your best bet, and the sports is probably right behind it.

Yeah.

I stick to sports.

But people don't make money sports betting either.

No, but at least I feel like I have some sort of education and intellect that I can apply, whereas I'm not relying on something else to benefit me.

And it's a great sweat.

You know, you're going to watch the game anyway.

It's exciting.

Yeah, it makes it more interesting.

What's your plans for Maverick Gaming?

Do you want to sell it one day, pass it to your kids?

Yeah, I pass it to my kids.

We're a private company.

We'll never go public.

And my boy already thinks he runs the company.

And we have a charity called Maverick Cares, and he thinks it's his charity.

And yeah, it'll go to them for sure.

Nice.

What made you want to do that?

You know, it's all I've ever done.

I started working for Michael Gawne,

he owns South Point now, but he owned Coast Resorts back then while I was going to law school.

I was in DC three days a week and I was in Vegas four.

And really, it's the only thing I've ever wanted to do.

So it wasn't like I knew in first grade that I was going to be in gaming, which is weird, but I didn't know it was weird.

And then I had kids and I thought everybody just knew what they're going to do.

I thought everybody knew.

And then I had these kids and they're like, they're daughters.

And they're, you know, what do you want to do?

And I'm going to be a princess.

And like, I was like, fuck, nobody knows what they're going to do.

I was like, I'm the weird one, man.

Like, but when you have like that singular purpose, it's all I ever worked towards.

It was like pretty, you know, straightforward in getting there.

Right.

Mr.

Beast has that drive with YouTube.

Yeah, it's amazing to see.

And I think that singular focus leads to a lot of good things in life.

And I think people call it, you know, over-compulsive, whatever, but I think that's what's the kind of drive that's needed to get major things accomplished, as I'm sure you would attest to.

Yeah, like, you know, I have my children, I have my friends that are close to me.

And they all have various, you know, levels of commitment.

But it's the people that are

where it never leaves your mind and it's what you're thinking about.

They're the people that get there, you know, and you have to really want it.

You have to want it when it sucks.

You have to want it when it's going good.

And

you have to have an appetite for more.

And I think a lot of people just sort of tap out along the way for all kinds of reasons.

They get married or it's enough and they think, well,

I'm fine, you know, but I'm just not built like that at all.

And I don't have great balance in my life.

And that's why you see me.

owning so many casinos and you see me playing like the biggest cash games in the world.

It's just either I fucking do it and I really do it or I just don't do it at all.

So it's like it's a lot of knowing yourself.

Like I don't have that thing that's like, hey, this is a bad idea.

So I don't ride motorcycles and I don't ski, because I would just die basically.

And I know that.

So I just stay away.

So not an adrenaline junkie.

Oh, I'm a

different, but in different ways.

I'm an adrenaline junkie, but I recognize the things that, like, we would be on a motorcycle and I would just go faster and faster until we died.

And so I know that about myself, so I just don't put myself in that position, which is basically what it is.

I think that, you know,

I chase feeling.

And I think it's one of those things that you,

as you're younger, there's a lot more things that excite you.

There's new things.

And the first time you have an expensive meal and you stay at Ritz-Carlton or whatever it is, or the first time you buy a Bentley or Lamborghini or Ferrari, whatever the fuck it is, it's like super, but you've done that.

Chasing that.

is feeling is um gets harder and harder you know and so you have to find different ways to be motivated it's not about money it's more and more of a scoreboard and it's about winning.

And you have to have that drive to win regardless of the tide of life.

And I don't think everybody has that either.

Nah, I think people reach a certain point of wealth and they kind of cool off of it.

A lot of people do, you know,

because it's good enough.

They're like, hey, you know what?

I'm in my 40s and I'm having enough for the rest of my life.

I'm just going to go, quote, enjoy life.

I'm just not built like I want to wake up and crush things.

And,

you know, and so it's like

it's important to have a support network around you that thinks like that.

Because it's one of the biggest things I see is where, you know, husbands and wives match up and they don't have the same goals and dreams and desires.

And

the wife resents that the guy is working late at night on Fridays and Saturday nights.

And he's, you know, in gaming, you work on the weekends and you work on the holidays and it's the fucking opposite and you're off on Monday, Tuesday.

And either you have, you know, a support group around you that understands that and encourages it, or I've seen it just sort of destroy careers, you know.

All right.

So would you say you're working 18 hours a day, like crazy?

I don't know when I'm working or when I'm not working, honestly.

Like, I don't think there's an on and off.

And I think that has a lot to do with smartphones at this point and text messaging and just,

you know, but the way my brain works is like I'm in bed.

I'm still, you know, thinking about it.

And it's always, I might be, like, I'm watching 100 on Netflix right now.

It's this Korean show.

We're like, I've seen that show.

Yeah,

we've both seen that show.

So like we're getting ready to see who wins this motherfucker, you know, and, but, but you're still in your head, you know, from time to to time, a thought pops in about stuff that's going on.

Like, so it's not like you clock in, you clock out

when you do the things I'm doing.

You just, it's always, always on your mind, you know.

I have that problem too, even in bed, can't stop thinking about work.

Yeah, I mean, we go to dinner, we talk about basketball, and then we quickly honeycomb to a conversation about crypto or NFTs, back to business, back to basketball, back to fun.

It's, it's never, it's never off, right?

And that's the key.

So if you're doing things you enjoy, it's not really, not even work, really.

You know, it's just, I don't think of maverick gaming as work or poker as

Sometimes I do think of poker as work.

Like if I played

too many hours or I'm coming in because I have this commitment.

That's the thing about cash games.

I can just go play whatever I fucking want.

But like when you're streaming, it's like there's a set schedule and you got to come in.

And

that's when it starts to feel like work sometimes.

So non-money related winning or losing, what is the most ridiculous thing you have seen at the poker table?

Man, like

that's a good question.

I mean,

I've seen a lot of ridiculous things.

Like,

you know, I've seen people fall asleep and keep playing.

And, like, this is pretty common.

And

I had an 80-year-old guy

sitting next to my left start choking me.

What?

Wait, wait, what?

Describe that story.

You know, I beat him in a hand, and I would start making fun of him all night.

And took his last money, and he got super mad.

He was old, and Floreman came.

I'm like, you know, let him stay, just have him move over there, you know, because he's a terrible player, and he's choked and hurt me.

Oh, man.

And then I had another incident where,

you know, I, like, another guy, you know, got aggressive with my wife and had to deal with that.

So like, I've had spots like with where Nelly, the singer, like, he's playing this game and nobody wants to leave this game.

And I'm playing for what I think is a lot of money back at the time.

And I get in this big hand and it's like seven ways.

And I win this, what I feel like is a really big pot at the time.

And

I get a phone call and I'm just he's sitting in the one seat I'm in the three seat and I'm like man I just stacked Nelly Nelly hears it motherfucker you didn't stack me and pulls you know a plastic bag out of his pants with like another 60,000 which was amazing and oh man you know I played

you know I played with a lot of celebrities which I really can't name because they're private but like you just

meet playing poker and playing at the levels I play at now, you're playing with some of the most successful people in the world.

And that alone is like super interesting because the conversations are just different, right?

They might be the biggest watch seller in the country, or they might be huge in social media, or they might be comedians, or they might be people you see on TV.

And

they're very

successful in their spheres, you know.

And just hearing how they think about things, I think there's probably some benefit to it.

So I'm super grateful for that.

But like, you have all kinds of

strange things happen if you hang out long enough in a casino just because the nature of money and emotions and and

you know people with vices and yeah so it's like you name it I've probably seen it I guess it's awesome is it true casinos inject scents into the air yeah so we do like

and probably grateful especially like you know I worked at Sands which owns like the Venetian Palazzo it was the largest gaming company by a factor of seven

and so had a great air handling but even they you know put a smell of into the palazzo that smelled good and but like downtown, you'd be grateful because air handling doesn't turn over near as much, and there's super old buildings.

And

the implied question is, like, do you do it to induce different actions through gaming?

Not really.

It's just more about, you know, people don't want to leave there and smell bad.

And then if they do, they associate it with your property.

Right, like the cigarette smell.

Yeah, exactly.

And then you're like, I don't want to go fucking back here because I smell like cigarettes when I get back.

Your girl's going to be pissed.

Or I got caught.

Yeah, exactly.

Right.

Yeah, yeah.

So

the casino is one of my favorite places that people watch.

And I feel like human behavior is just different there.

Do you attribute it to the money, to the ambiance?

Why is everyone acting so different in casinos?

It's all that, right?

So, like, I spent a lot of time at Bellagio playing pretty big games or ARIA.

And, you know, and I drive a Lamborghini or I drive a Bentley over there, and

I leave it up front.

And

casinos at its core are about flexing and about exuberant wealth and

or aspiration towards it.

So even the people that don't have money, they dress up as well as they can and they might put what they think is their best watch on.

And

there's a pressure, I think, if you're in that culture.

to try to live up to it.

And I think that's fun because it means it's much more enjoyable to watch people, you know, and the girls dress up and

that's fun.

And, you know, and so it's like, I think gaming and being in casinos is part of escapism right what you're doing is you're sort of escaping your mundane every life because you don't wear that watch every day and you don't dress up with your best clothes and you don't your girl doesn't put on her best dress and she doesn't go to Omni usually and but then she does you know and and you spend more than you should but um

but maybe you think that's a great transaction because you know you think about all the days in your life you won't remember and then the days that you do you know I'd rather spend money on the days I remember you know all right so

do you drink at the poker table?

I don't, like, so I work out a lot, and um, I very rarely do I drink at all.

And when I do, I drink to get drunk.

I think alcohol is like pointless, makes me feel bad the next day.

So, unless I'm there to get wasted, I'm either gonna have zero drinks or a shit ton of drinks, basically.

No in between, no in between

because I'm gonna work out the next day, and I feel like crap, it just fucks up the next day, you know.

So, what is a guilty vice of yours?

Oh man, my guilty vice is

don't say working too much.

No, like it's it's it's more nuanced.

It's like my guilty, my guilty vice is

my little boys, you know, Maverick and Ace.

They're 10 and 4.

They're my, you know, two of my best friends.

And I have such a busy life.

I know that I do things that trades time with them to do other choices.

And you feel guilt from that sometimes.

It's a guilty vice, right?

I love to be in Beverly Hills.

And I love, you know, I love to spend time traveling.

And I like to take them with me.

But when I'm in Beverly Hills, I don't really want them with me, for example.

And, and so, like, um, I do that, right?

And my wife comes with me, and we stay at the peninsula, and, um, and it's great, you know.

And at the same time, I know

I have two older daughters.

They're 19 and 20, and you know, they don't give up, they live down in Miami, so they're not worried about me being, but your four-year-old and 10 want to be with you, you know.

So every time I make a choice to go to Beverly Hills and maybe play poker or go to ARIA and play poker or just do stuff without them, you know, they're always in the back of my mind because you can't get that time back, you know.

Right.

Yeah, finding that balance with family and business is always tough.

Yeah, and it's one of those things where with my first two daughters,

you know, everything was centered around them.

So they're going to go to Disneyland 10 times more than Averick and Ace will.

You know, and but as you get older, you're like,

got your marriage and you want to like, you want to have your time.

You start to get a little more selfish, you know, I think.

Right.

And I think that, I think that's fine.

I think, I think it was something I had to come to terms with because we were realizing that you're just taking all those years and not doing anything for yourself.

And ultimately,

that is one of the places I should be bound.

So I went the other way.

I was just all about the kids.

And now I'm trying to push myself to make sure that I spend enough time with them that they think of me as the best dad ever or that I can be or whatever.

That's awesome.

What do you think is the biggest trade-off that you've suffered in your life to this point?

Is it the time trade-off with family?

Is it maybe spending too much time at the poker table at some point in your life or not enough time?

Or what has been the biggest time trade-off that you feel like you've suffered?

You know, I think that it's one of those things where

this is an impossible question.

And here's why.

It's like, I got this ex-wife.

I hate her guts.

And she would say the same.

She don't like me either.

But do I regret marrying her?

Because, you know, I have these two daughters that I love and they're, you know, they're amazing.

So you think like, what's the biggest trade-off?

It's like it's a butterfly effect.

You don't know what the outcome would be

if you didn't make those trades.

And I'm super happy with where I'm at.

So I don't really want to trade anything.

What I want to do is keep pushing myself to make the best decisions, to be the best dad, to be the best business owner, to be the best friend of my wife.

And that's where I find myself.

You know, focus on the future and the decision we make now.

I'm not really backwards looking like that because I don't think it's healthy.

I agree.

Agreed.

Yeah.

I love that.

Any closing comments and where people can find you?

Nah, you guys can find me on Eric Person Poker or on YouTube, Instagram, and I am Maverick888 on Twitter.

Look me up.

Like, follow, subscribe, man.

All right.

You heard it there, guys.

Thanks for coming in on the Digital Social Hour.

I'll see you guys next week.