#495 - Oil Gangs, Fiddler of the Roof and Bags In The Sex Shop

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Hello, welcome to Ellis and and John. Thank you very much for downloading.
And Dave has just come up with a fantastic idea. And the campaign begins here.

We have Christmas decorations up in the studio for the first time because it's December, first show of December. And John came in and he immediately began to improve.

He saw weaknesses in the way David set things up. He started to spruce.
He started to attend. He started to tinker.
And it was really, really nice. He's done a great job of it.

He's got got a little Robin with a beanie hat on and a scarf hanging from his mic stand. He's framed the good radio bell with a snowman and a Santa Claus.

And Dave said, Oh, I didn't expect this from John. I said, No, no, this is what he does.
He was either going to come in and say, Get rid of it.

We are not doing

this podcast. We are a serious podcast.
I'm either scorched earth or planting acorns.

Absolutely, exactly.

100%.

You'll either try to improve or you'll refuse. Yeah, and it's reprove or refuse.
364 days of the year, it's scorched earth. Yeah.

Today, we all breathe a breath of relief. No, no, no, no, because he often, like, if you've got to take our photo or something,

he will say, no, no, no, Dave, you're not framing properly.

He's not scorched earthing you there. He's not saying, don't take the photo, Dave.
Sometimes he does say that. Sometimes he does, but usually he's trying to help you.

Sometimes he'll just sort of send a few messages very early on a Saturday morning saying, what the hell is that plug video for our Christmas playlist? It looks absurd. Yeah, 7.40am.

Yeah. Get Britain back working.
You need a block on your phone to stop you Whatsapping before 9am. Do you know what I needed the messages?

Do you know what I think of when we get the 6am missives about how to improve the show?

Do it reminds me of that French labour law that means you can't legally answer a sort of work email after 6pm.

John is very un-French.

It's just... He's too boring capitalist.

No, and I am trying to address this because

when you are self-employed, when you are a business leader,

content doesn't sleep. No, no, no.
So when stuff is- And you're never finished.

When stuff is being put on Instagram at seven in the morning, and you're seeing it and thinking that's not good enough for my brand,

You're like, well, if I wait for two hours, the press are going to get hold of this.

So I need... Fews will rack up.
Yeah, I need to throw the emergency blanket on the chip fire. You've got a paparazzi at your front door if you're not careful.
Yeah. Excuse me, Mr.
Robbins, Mr.

Robbins. Why are you uploading such a terrible video, Mr.
Robbins, Mr. Robbins? No comments.

I'm trying to build a better BBC. Mr.
Robbins. How do you feel about how bad the video is, Mr.
Robbins? I think the real question here is what do people expect? Yeah. And people expect effort.

Yeah, but Mr. Robbins, the video's really bad, Mr.
Robbins. It's not.
It was not bad. It looks like it was filmed on a potato, to use internet slang

from a 15 years ago. We filmed it on a phone, and the lighting wasn't great.

It was a good film, but I think the fact is the lighting wasn't great, which then means it's it's the something

no i will absolutely throw myself under the bus for this because it's no one else's fault apart from mine There we go, I've said it. And I think it's aperture issues.

So in future, you know, I've learned my lesson. Do you really? It's aperture issues.
I don't know, James. It's quality.

Was it 4K? It was 4K. That's mad.
Yeah, but you should be able to punch in a little bit.

If there's someone below you, you could probably throw under the bus. I'm not throwing anyone below you.

If you want to be a business leader. If you have a business leader.

You've got to be able to throw people under the bus.

No, actually, a mature business leader and a business leader that people look up to and want to follow is a business leader that sometimes holds his hand up and says i know i seem perfect

but every now and then there is a chink in the old armor dave you're running a footse 250 company yeah i'm i want to be in the magnificent seven yes i'm nvidia whatever they are yeah yeah yeah

so basically you're not pushing yourself enough dave yeah so john reminds neither am i i i i'll hold my hands up and john reminds us it's very hard to push yourself though, isn't it?

Well, he exactly, but he reminds us of this at 6.58am.

And so Dave had the idea as John was sprucing up the Christmas decorations.

Do they still do the Celebrity Apprentice? So I've just Googled it. So let's get John on.
We have missed the boat. Oh,

has the series ended? No, the series is back. Oh, okay.
And there is a Christmas special by the looks of it. It's to mark the 20th anniversary.

There's a two-part installment which will air as a Christmas special in aid of children relief. Sorry, children in need.

Name the people on there, and I will make a face to each of them.

There's loads. This is good audio.
Now,

some of them are production company adjacents, so just keep an eye out for those, all right?

I'm going to make a face so people can't see it. Yeah, okay.
Come on then, Div. Rob Rinder.

You can.

I've got the partridge meme. I've met several times.
Lovely guy. He was on the pilot pilot for Fancy Football League and a nice man.
Yeah.

Thomas Skinner.

Okay. I think you would have an opinion on Thomas Skinner if you knew who he was.
A bosch.

Oh.

This is so exclusive as in not inclusive for the listener, John. You know what we'll have to do, Div? We'll have to sell it.
It should be noise.

We'll have to sell. tickets for listeners to sit in the studio so they can see John's faces at a hundred grand each.
Angela Scanlon.

That's a big thumbs up from John. That's good to see.
I love Angela Scanlon. We all love Scanlon, John.
I think he's superb.

I'm just trying to spot ones that you might. I don't name them all.
Oh, really? They all make you look out of touch, John.

Who wants to be in touch with this mess? J.B. Gill.

JLS, man. What? JLS? Yes.

It's like halfway between J.B. Priestley and A.A.
Gill. That's what I was thinking.
It is.

Good businessman.

Nice guy, I met him, actually, decent chap. Okay.
Oh, Hannah will be over the moon.

It's Legend from Gladiators. Oh, yeah.
Who is a very funny man? Yes. He is the character of the new series, Charlie.
Yeah, he really is. He's great value.
Matt Morse.

I'm now going to watch it because of Matt. Okay.
So I'm in. AJ, I do do.
Lovely. Nice.
Yeah. She's very good.
Charlie Hedges, Radio One Dance DJ on daytime with Ricky Malvin and Charlie.

Charlie Hedges, Charlie. Good stuff.

Not a clue.

What's going on? She's good.

She's nice. And she's good at her job.
I'm not saying she's bad at her. No, no, no, no.
I feel a slipping off the zeitgeist. Sarah Hadland.

Yes. Unless she sets cryptic crosswords for the times

or is in geese.

I don't know who she is. Is she Brian Eno?

Because if she's not Brian Eno, I don't know who she is. That's cryptic crosswords.
No. Oh, but you just listen to Brian Eno as you do your cryptic crosswords.
Okay.

What a cultural hinterland. I've got no cultural awareness, really, of anything on screen.
Matt Morcier, J.B. Gill, Rob Rinder, I would watch for various reasons.

Angela Scanlon, of course, Charlie Hedges, respect is due as she's a radio presenter. We should get John on because I think he'd make a fortune.

My daughter at Guides is doing a thing called Grow Your Pound, where they're all given a quid and then they can spend that quid on something.

And the idea is that they make a profit and then they, you know, they continue to invest that profit into other stuff. There was a guy who turned a paperclip into a house by doing that.

Wow, you just keep exchanging. Yeah, so then after three, I think she's been doing it for a couple of months.

So she bought some, like a pencil and some paper with her pound and she was selling drawings and blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, lovely.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

But i think that john i think john would break records on the celebrity apprentice or the normal apprentice yeah well we should get him on you come on you've got influence div we can get him on but he wouldn't know who he's on with

i think the problem is you know taking

an honest stock of my tv career i'm more likely to get on the apprentice than the celebrity

you'd be better on dragon's den i think what's one of your big ideas what's that well i've got loads of ideas he's He can have some of mine.

A piece of software that automatically accepts all cookies. Great.
Okay.

Very good. That's good.
TikTok the musical. Why don't they have that? It's actually quite a good idea.
Yeah. I don't think, because does everyone want all their cookies accepted? Yes.
God, yes.

Everyone just accepts all

that. Just accept all.
Oh, I'm glad that you do. When I accept all my cookies, I often think, God, if John saw me just haphazardly clicking yes to this, he'd have

a hard time. It's a plug-in for your browser that either accepts all, rejects all, or accepts only necessary.
And it's preset

so that those things never appear on your blimming internet. Three options.
You set it when you buy it, and there you go. I think you can.
People. Steve, he's done it again.

He's done it again. Good.
It's better than my idea of TikTok and the musical.

Don't even know what that is. I mean, I've written it, but it's just a good thing.
Someone's already writing that.

Surely.

So, okay, Celebrity Apprentice is off because it's already happened. Yeah, yeah, no probs, no problems.
And best of luck to all of them. Absolutely.

I would be Team A1 plus Alpha Force Mega First, the best.

That would be the name of my team. Right, right, right, right, right, right.
Yeah, of course it would. And I would be Commander

Dark Ops. I think you'd be John in John's team.
Switchblade. John.
In John's, too. No, Commander Dark Ops Switchblade is my name.
I think you would take Sugar's.

That sounds like you're on SCS who does wins. Yeah.
He'd say,

Dark Ops Special Forge Switchblade, that's a load of tut.

And I'd go, the only tut here is King Tut because I'm covered in gold. That's good.

I like you. I don't know why, but I do.

Yeah, that's really good. And Lila's into King Tut at the moment, so that would

have landed with the eight-year-olds

as well.

now ellis why are you in such a foul mood because i kept drinking mojitos and i was going to blame it on other people saying that i was in a round people kept buying them for me but it was it was all my choice because i was at a karaoke bar that's the last place i would put you yeah but my friend kate organizes it every christmas and i always go there and i always really do get stuck in

I get stuck in. You can say no to the round if you want to pull yourself out of the round.
I get stuck into the mojitos and I get stuck into the singing.

What did you sing?

What? Do you bill me? I bill me

down. Let me down.

Was it in one of those tiny cubicles that's like hell? That's actually physical. It was a hell cubicle.
It was like a torture they would use in Guantanamo. It was a hell cubicle.
A hell cubicle.

Right.

Izzy was at the back. She wasn't watching me sing angels.
And I said, what were you talking to Henry about? And she said, Anna Karenina. Nice.

Ow. Because we're in a hellcube.
But you can't hear anything anyone's saying because you're in a hell cube. She was shouting about Anna Krenina.

You did Angels.

She haven't needed a protection. Do you want to know a good fact about Angels by Robbie Williams? Yeah, please.

That was his fourth single to be released from that album. Okay.
They released the first thing.

This was his comeback album after they didn't take that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And the label going,

we got this wrong. He's releasing duds.
We thought he was the guy to back

off the back of leaving a very popular boy band. And then someone in the label said, should we just try it? Should we try it? I think it's for Angels.
Yeah, Angels is banging actually. And huge.

And 25 years on. What's happening? I'm singing it in a Hellcube.
That saved his career. And Alice is singing it in a hell of a...
But it's the hardest song to sing.

Everyone picks up karaoke and then gets it completely wrong. Not for me.
Not for him. Did you not hear him? With a round round or wrong.
All right, no, no. No, but that's the hard bit to sing.

No, I know. Copyright isn't it? You should do the hard bit to sing.
What is the hard bit?

Sing angels if you think everyone who does angels at karaoke thinks they can sing angels, and then they all hit upon an enormous stumbling block.

Obviously, because of copyright, for us to leave all this in, I now have to reveal this mumbling.

Here we go. Oh,

that was all right. Let's try and have a go.

He can do it because he's got good range. Have a go.

I'm trying to work out what the harp is. I'm looking at the lead.

He means the chorus that he's actually already done and he did quite well. Is that what you mean? The heart is it? Good song.
Strong lyrics. Melody is catchy.
Great lyrics.

And it's had a bit of longevity about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you know. So, what time did you leave the hell cubicle, please?

Not very late, but obviously I had to do the school, and I was extremely grumpy and

not at my best

and i accept that i was bad i i let the family down today put your shoes on

you're snatching defeat from the jaws of victory oh you're still 39 still peddling that i the last time i was in a hell cubicle i think we may even discuss this at the time I did not put enough effort into making sure my then-girlfriend had a nice time.

Of course, I ended up sitting outside.

With your earphones in.

Yeah.

I was there and I was thinking, this is John's idea of hell. And I don't do it very often.
I do it once a year for kids' thing.

I forgot my headphones on the tube in today, so I put in earplugs and it was actually really nice. Yeah, yeah.
I like it.

On most of my journeys to London, I pop in my noise-cancelling headphones with every intention to put on an album. The album doesn't load because the Wi-Fi on trains at this stage is

not downloaded playlists on your phone. Yeah, I've got a few.
Even then, if it won't let you load the album, it won't let you start playing the album. It is madness.

But what's nice is sometimes I just leave Min for the full two hours.

And I was sat right at the front of the tube, and a guy sat down opposite me, and I was a little bit annoyed because there were other seats further up.

And I'm like, why have you come all this way to sit opposite me, chump?

And then there was this little great rattling in the air sort of flow bit. And he got up and he sort of fiddled around with it.
And I thought, oh, he's, he's one of, he's one of us. Yeah, yeah.

And then

it kept rattling. Where was it? It was just above him.
So you sit on a train and above you, there's those little vents. He's a fiddler of the roof.

Thanks, John.

And then

it kept rattling. And I was like,

he's annoyed by that. And because he's alerted my attention to it, I'm annoyed by it.

So he went into his bag, he got he got out a woolly hat and stuffed it in the vent fair to stop it rattling and i thought this guy can sit next to me anytime he likes i like that what a problem solver just me with my ear plugs in

him him with his woolly hat in the the mechanism of the train i thought i bet we're both single

um Before we go on, we do have a couple of inserts today,

just because a a debate has been raging, hasn't it? Has it over the past seven days? Yeah, big time. There's been a debate that's been raging.

Yes, it has, it has. It's oil-based.
Oh, right. I didn't know it was a debate.
It isn't a debate. It's just the debate rages, doesn't it? So I've used that phrase.
It's the wrong phrase.

Because I'm not perfect, John. We've been through this.
Yeah.

It's just confusing.

Well, it is a debate.

The debate is what oils do you have in your bloody cupboard?

It's only a debate if someone's trying to sort of gaslight you into thinking you don't have oils you have. Yeah, you actually did to Alice last week.
Yeah,

you have sunflower oil. Oh, I don't.
Yes, you do. Yeah, etc.
Just call it vegetable oil. But we're starting to get a sense of what this great nation has in its cupboards.

Yes, we're building up a picture of the slick. We are because oil is all the rage.
People are getting into oil.

Until very recently, people were just frying in lard and

gravel and margarine. But Britain's a nation of oil lovers.
Yes, yes.

So, and not just baby oil. I wonder if you can cook with baby oil.
Well, I doubt it. People have pointed out not enough people are getting in touch to say they have baby oil as an oil.

People are ignoring the baby. Cooking oil.
You don't know. Well, we've never said, I think we've kind of just broadened it to what we can cook up love.

What's

question for two dads what's baby oil actually for outside of the lovemaking arena never used it so it's not it but it must be for babies inside originally but i think it's a bit like talc like no one uses talc on babies burgers because it gives you cancer yeah not since like the 80s we used no we used a bit of baby oil on when lila was a baby and it was basically after she was out of the bath just to keep her she got stuck in smooth

she got stuck in a pipe

no i never used it so we yeah we but i think we just did it because we thought well sure this is what you do because it's got baby in the title yeah and then we didn't do it for the twins and all of them are broadly fine so i'm not sure

so we've got some correspondence about your oil armories um ellis dave and i have all taken photos of us with our oils i'm missing one i just sent izzy a text to to confirm and i said coconut last week and then i couldn't find it when i was taking my photo and she said yes in a strange little jar.

Well I've got to hold my hands up because after demanding you name your oils and criticizing you for not being able to name your oils immediately, I did find two oils subsidiary to the oils I listed.

Okay. However, what are they? Coconut and mustard.
Mustard oil. I saw that in the picture.
Now in my defense, they're not in my oil gang. They're in the back of a cupboard from three years ago.

Yeah, but, but, you know, the same with coconut. Sure.
It's not in my oil gang. Sure.
I've only really got two oils in my oil gang.

That mustard oil I bought to make that curry for you at New Year's Eve in my house. It's a really nice one.
That's how long I've had it. It made my jumper smell for six months.
Yes. Yeah.

But mustard oil in high amounts is very, is not good for you.

Oh, obviously you have to use it very sparingly. Oh, thanks, mate.
And

I've not used it. That's why I've been unwell.

We discussed it at the time. You're not allowed to sell it as a foodstuff.

And you put it in a discurry. Yeah.
So there's this bizarre sort of suspension of disbelief amongst mustard oil consumers and sellers because they say it's for your skin on the bottle, but it's not.

It's for cooking in. But they can't sell it as a foodstuff because of how dangerous it is.
Mad. I know.

Honestly, it's a book, is it?

Gonna cook with it. If I call it a book, you can sue me.

If I don't, you can't. It's that sort of vibe.

So I got them out for the picture. Got it.
Okay, fine.

That was a really nice curry. It was, wasn't it? It was a proof of Malabar.
Yeah, I would say that's in the top three curries I've had in my life. Oh, okay.
This is from Rude. I like a cook.

I like the guy. No, yeah, yeah.
He's good. Dear Ellis John Dave and all the team, I keep it pretty simple in my kitchen.
By the hob, olive, brackets, virgin, rapeseed sunflower.

In the cupboard, sesame and expensive olive, brackets, extra virgin, break seal only for drizzling, etc. Oh, okay.

I'm more of the cook in my household with a firm grip on smoke points and appropriate oil usage. My full-time boyfriend, on the other hand, asks me on a weekly basis, which one is the olive oil.

In the two-ish years of living together, my response has gone from a loving, tender, it's the one in the round bottle, round like an olive, to a terse, still that one.

That is relationships in a nutshell. Before leaving the arena of conflict, lest I say something I regret.

Just this week, breaking point, the posh EV olive, which incidentally I also hide at the back of the cupboard to avoid misuse, was being poured as I walked into the kitchen.

What gourmet dinner was being prepared, I hear you ask. Why, jacket potato and baked beans, of course.
That's right. The liquid, now more expensive than wine, was being used to get a crispy skin.

I now have no option but to keep the good stuff under lock and key. Ellis and Dave, if you believe in a better Britain, then please, the nation nation begs, get a grip of your oil inventory.

John, 10 out of 10, no notes.

That's from Ruth. Thank you.
So there is actually something to

take from that. I think I'm being quite haphazard with my extra virgin.
Only to be used cold is a good rule.

Is it? Yes. For dressings.
For waste. For dressings and drizzles, because its smoke point is quite low.

So this is why... Oh, goodness me.

I've had a huge error. So smoke points of oils change depending on what the base of the oil is.
If you're frying something, you want something with a high smoke point

because, don't tell Hannah this,

oil can become less healthy for you in the long run if you're smoking and burning it. And it's also, it's worse for the food because you don't get that burnt taste and burnt smell.
Yeah, okay.

So, I mean, we could do a rundown of the... the smoke point of oils.
I wouldn't. Okay.
I wouldn't. Do you think that's useful for listeners?

I heard Martin Lewis talking about credit reports for an hour, which I love. But that's his bag.
Yeah, I know, but I'm saying people are tolerant of detail. Why don't you put it on the podcast notes?

Why is he like the rest of his podcasts? But put it in the newsletter.

It could be very quick. It could be very quick.
It could be very quick. Why don't we let him find them out and then?

I've got them. He's got 20 seconds to run it down like his top of the pops.
Okay, go.

Bruno Bronze.

High smoke oils. So this is a high smoke point.
So these are oils you can get really hot. Quickly.
Refined avocado, safflower, soybean, peanut refined, corn oil, refined sunflower oil.

That's why sunflower oil is best for deep frying. Medium smoke points: canola, grapeseed, light/slash refined olive oil.
Quickly. Vegetable oil, sesame oil, untoasted, refined coconut oil.

Low smoke oils do not use for frying. Extra virgin, unrefined almond, unrefined sunflower oil.
4, 3, 2, 1, he's done it. There we go.
Bit of detail. Yeah, it's good to know, actually.

This is from Cole, reassessing extra virgin.

John, you must reassess your stance on frying in extra virgin olive oil. Much of the world fries in it every day as the foundation of their cuisine.
Doesn't make it right. Much of the world's at war.

Sure, it has a lower smoke point than many oils, but it's stable enough at typical home frying temperatures. Cole, I'm sorry, that's not good enough.
That's saying, why not be vague?

Why not allow for errors? How do you know how hard, how high people are frying temperature-wise at home? Cole, what an enormous assumption you've made that I think reflects terribly on you.

And I think you should go to prison.

He does make the point that it is more expensive than supermarket middle-tier wine. Well, yeah, so why waste the buns?

Save for your dressings.

It's very good for your extravagation, Oliva. It's very good for your gut.
Is it? I follow follow a Moncunian gut guy on Instagram, and he's always talking about Evo.

Well, this would be a good time just to hear Goofy Gut and Doctor. We got one more day.
Well, should we intersperse with a bit of a voice with the voice of the nation?

Well, I want to know he's on a roll. I want to read this one because the title is Let Down by Ellis and Dave.

This is from Kathy from the south of France.

Hello, my pretty little tripods. I'll be brief.
I'm both alarmed, disgusted, and embarrassed

by both Ellis and Dave for not knowing the oils currently available in their homes. What a letdown you both are.

John, you win again, not only because you've proved yourself to be a proper man through your demonstration of knowledge of oil ownership, but also the fact that you are a fellow condiment bag owner.

Guilty. As a condiment bag owner myself, I've also been known to provide tailored bag for friends who may have to attend hospital.

Don't know why they're attending hospital, but if they're in, the condiments in hospital food are often not good. in water.

That's a common thing. That's where condiments are worth more than gold.
So, Izzy was in hospital when my son was born. Our son was born, and

her friend Debbie brought in a proper nice mug because it's nice to drink tea. Yeah, you can still get a piece of colour.
That's a great gift.

Now, then, let's hear some of your oils. Andy and the Wirral.
Olive says me just bought Vegemite on John's recommendation. Great.
Vegemite in the mix as well. Please keep it to your oils.

It has been very clear on that. Fionna in Nottingham.
Organic rapeseed. Extra virgin olive.

Extra virgin olive spray.

I know what I like.

Extra virgin olive spray. And someone's earning.

Wow. Fionna is in the 1%.

Hannah in San Francisco.

Four bottles of extra virgin olive oil of different provenances and flavor profiles, including a local California one, avocado oil, sesame, coconut, and a mystery contraption that you can fill with the oil of your choice and pump to use as a spray.

That feels like elite oiling. That's classic sandwiches.
But do you know what? That is classic sandwiches. You see, cost of living crisis in the UK at the moment.

I don't know what the cost of living crisis is like in San Francisco because she's got quite expensive sending oils to the British consumer.

Well, they've got a huge cost of living crisis, but I'm guessing that Hannah in San Francisco. She works in tech.

She's high up in tech. Yeah.
Or she's high up in Hollywood. Yes, it's probably that.
She probably owns Warner MGM. Yeah, yeah.

It's quite the journey to Hollywood. Is she the Hanno's in charge of Pixar? Where's Hollywood? Well, Hollywood is, I suppose, in the grand scheme of things, just south.

Well, she commutes there by cyber bus. Does she? Yeah.
I think it's about four hours. It's not the issue.
Which, yeah, in America's terms, it's quite close. This is Kathy in Oxford.

Extra virgin olive oil. I'm now going to just put myself into the shame well because I've been using this on everything for the past few years.
Nice one, Kathy. It's no good.
Wow. Joe in Monmouth.

Rapeseed oil, sesame oil, coconut oil. And I've got extra virgin olive oil.
This in a bottle, a spray, and a pipette for salads.

And I've got an organic extra virgin olive oil one cow cooking spray that I never use and is years out of date. Great.
Fair enough. I don't think oil goes off.

It might go rancid. Well, then that's that's the same.
I doubt it goes off. I do need to eat.
You drink, you'd eat a thousand-year-old oil. Probably.

Then you may have been near not Christ, but Edward the Confessor.

King Harold.

It may have been King Harold's personal oil. That's Edward the Confessor's Evo.

Yes, cooking oil does expire. Because Because it can go rancid over time.
Yeah.

Chris and Devon. Olive, sesame, rapeseed, beard.

Good. Oh, interesting.

People are saying sesame, sesame. Interesting, isn't it? Yeah, I want it stopped.

Are we going to hear some more oil inventories days? A little bit later on, yeah. Oh, okay.
Yeah, that's split. Is this content?

Is that done now? That's it. Okay.
What the show?

No, exactly. I think we've probably covered the oil for now.
is this the debate that raged as we have since not a debate

raging it's a list it's a point of interest at best

let's chat to adrian about his oils

The bush tucker child. This is where, throughout the ashes, while England and Australia are slogging it out down under for cricketing dominance,

we are arguing between an English and Welsh team and an Australian team. And the English and Welsh team outnumber the Australians.
And we've got different criterias. We did Marmite versus

Vegmite the first week. Second week, we did wildlife.
I've lost track of who's won, but I'm rather enjoying it.

It's obviously unfair because for England and Wales, we have Ellis and John, who are two in number. How are you, gentlemen? Hello there.
We're okay, thank you. Very good.

Okay, very good.

And for the Aussies, just all on a lone sum, comedian, actor, and writer Felicity Ward. Felicity, are you well? I'm pretty good.
How are you?

I really enjoyed John's existential pause before he answered what he really thought. He likes to do that to make me think he's either not woken up or the microphone isn't up.
But

Ellis is very hungover, Adrian, and he's a little sleepy because he went to a karaoke bar last night. Did he? What did you sing, Ellis? Build me a buttercup by the foundations.

And I went big.

Your voice is an octave lower Ellis. I went so big.
Big Terry. It sounded more like Bonnie Tyler than anybody's button up there.

Turn around.

Exactly. Exactly.
Right. Well, today, our battleground is over soap.
Obviously,

not the stuff you clean yourself with, but TV soaps. And our

expert on this is Caroline Frost, who's lived down under and lived up here and knows all about Terry. Caroline, thanks very much for coming on.
So,

take us, so take us through

the Australian sort of

soap,

what do we call this,

the panorama of Australian soaps over the years. What might you say about it?

Well, my life has been a preparation for this, Adrian, but I can tell you that back in the 80s, any sick day of school was always the consolation prize of of sitting through the Sullivans, sons and daughters, latterly McLeod's daughters.

But if you look at the whole timeline, it's been defined by three big juggernauts of TV soap. In third place, a country practice is the third longest running soap opera.

The runner-up so far is home and away, although it's still going strong.

And we know that this very week we see the very final episode after 40 years of Australia's top most longest running show, which is in in fact, of course, Neighbours.

Okay, and from

the British point of view, let's call it,

what do we talk about? It's still Coronation Street, East Enders, Enderdale.

It is.

So a quick rundown from third place, which is, oh, I'm not going to pronounce this correctly. It's the Welsh one.
It's Cobel Piquim. Thank you.
Cobelaquim. Thank you.
Picqual Valley. I love it.

I watch it in the evenings and then I watch it again on the omnibus.

So that's been running since October 74.

Two years before that, Emmadel, Ney Emmadel Farm, started. But of course, the great godmother, the OG, is Coronation Street, which has been running since December 1960.

If you want to look at audiences, Corrie still has the big weekly draw, but of course, the big runaway hit for most watched ever is still 1986 Christmas, EastEnders, Den and the Divorce Papers, duff, duff, duff.

Does it ever ever not feature sunshine in Australian soaps? I never remember ever raining in any of them.

It's all bronze bodies and beaches and sunshine. Well, that's time and away.
Yeah.

You can't have a bronze beach in Melbourne.

I don't remember it raining in neighbours. But I think that's been a lot of time.
The two Australian soaps versus, say,

EastEnders and Coronation Street represent the two sides of the British psyche because you've got the aspirational, I just want an easy life, I just want sunshine every month of the year, sort of ex pat dream.

But you've also got the life's really crappy and crummy, and you know, my brother-in-law's drinking too much, and my business is going down the pan, and

it's raining.

And those are the two sort of British mindsets when it comes to realism and escapism. Whereas American soaps are all about very successful people.
Yeah, yeah.

And I wonder if social media meant that we essentially got soap operas from our

favorite personalities. So the popularity of Home and Away and Neighbors just waned because

I can access that through Instagram.

I would also suggest that reality TV... became massive in the early 2000s and that's probably about the time that soaps dropped off for Australia anyway.
Like there's almost a direct correlation

where you get the real people, you get the drama, you get producers who are designing something, but it's like semi-real.

So maybe you don't need a soap opera because your soap opera needs and your gossip needs are being met by reality TV. Caroline, you've got anything to add at this point?

Well, what we should talk about is the influence on British culture of Aussie soaps.

So yes, I've mentioned some of those huge ratings vehicles, but we haven't mentioned Neighbours and Charlene and Scott's wedding of 1988. Now, that drew 20 million British viewers.

We've seen people like Carl Kennedy, Alan Fletcher doing music tours. And of course, some might argue that he's not the greatest music success story to come out of Neighbours.
I would disagree.

But of course, it's so that great,

it's totally infiltrated our culture. I mean, phrases, we didn't used to know what,

well, I don't know. I mean, you can tell us you're the expert, but thank you.

there we go um and all of that has entered the british consciousness so culturally they're profoundly significant in a way i would argue that the british soaps did not make that same infiltration into australian culture um ellis going on for us are you going to say something No, no, I was just going to say that I don't know if British soaps had that, but you do need to remember we were colonized by the British.

So there has been some other British influences in our culture.

Your racism is second to none because of your foreign

There's a school of thought that the Australian accent is the Cockney accent if you're squinting because of the sun. That's very funny.
So when

people from London were sent to Australia, you could have, you know, essentially

a Grant and Phil accent if you if you raise the muscles of your face up high and

turns into an Australian accent. That's a fun fact.

If you wanted to have a part for yourself in an Australian soap, Ellis, John,

what would you go for?

The bookish boy who was bullied.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah.

Would you be Welsh in it? Yeah, the Welsh bookish boy. The Welsh bookish boy who was bullied, yeah.
Yeah, what about you, what are you, John? Local pornographer.

Felicity, what would you, what would you fancy in a British soap? I I didn't know that a pornographer was stop saying that word now. Let's move on from that.

What part would you like?

Too old to be backpacking working in a pub. Okay, got it.
All right, we can work on that.

In search of Kentiki at age 45, that's what I would be. Adrian.
Okay, I'm going to call this. I've got something just for our show, Adrian.
Just want to get you. What oils do you have in your kitchen?

What oils? Oh, I've got several. I've got sesame oil.

I've got chili oil. I've got extra virgin olive oil.
I've got plain olive oil and I've got rapeseed oil. Thank you very much.

Okay.

What oils have I got in my kitchen feature? Is that what's going on? Yes, that's what we do. Literally.
Interesting. Looking forward to it.
Glad to make a contribution.

Hello, it's it's Ray Winstone. I'm here to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio 4: History's Toughest Heroes.

I got stories about the pioneers, the rebels, the outcasts who define tough.

And that was the first time anybody ever ran a car up that fast with no tires on. It almost feels like your eyeballs are going to come out of your head.
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Right, those were Adrian's oils and a

great chat with Felicity. Let's hear some more of yours.
This is Jamie in Sheffield. Vegetable, toasted sesame, Greek extra virgin olive, calamata, papa, delta, Oscar.
Gotta love a central ol bargain.

Yes, you do. As I said, other oil-producing nations are stepping up.
This is Emma in Preston. Flower confused olive oil.

Normal olive oil, stir-fry oil, which appears to be a mix of sunflower and twisted sesame with added flavourings.

Coconut oil, pure sesame oil, cold-pressed rapeseed oil, a floret sunflower oil spray, and a crisp and dry rapeseed oil spray.

And also, located in the fridge, a crispy chili oil, courtesy of a recommendation from no one other than Mr. Ed Gamble.

Emma loves oil. Yes, and that's a big oil selection, though.
That's a big oil selection.

This is from Laurie in nottingham olive sunflower sesame uh classic oils basic oils feels like the oils you would take to an airbnb four for two oils uh nick in almondsbury olive oil virgin extra virgin and a spray coconut sunflower sesame groundnut vegetable also an unopened tin of ghee but it's not technically an oil is it sorry

my oh my

uh also

nikki sounds like She sounds like someone who would be polite but firm with customer services. Yes.
Oh, good. Who'd be like, no.
Calmly assertive.

I'm sorry, that's not good enough.

Also, Nikki lives in Almondsbury, which is very near where I grew up. Do say hello to various garden centres, the Almondsbury Cricket Ground, the M5M4 interchange, the Almondsbury interchange.

And also once the richest parish in the country, due to the sale of land for the creation of Bradley Stoke, which then during the recession in the 80s became known as Sadly Broke because it was the negative equity capital of the UK.

But this is Sarindevon.

Yeah, Sarah and Devon.

Vegetable, brackets general.

Walnut, garlic, olive, olive, olive.

Three olives in the cupboard. It's freedom you can trust.

I tell you what. It is.
It is freedom you can trust. It is freedom you can trust.

Literally, she didn't say it. I've got three olives.
She said, olive, olive, olive.

Also, garlic oil. Yeah, I love garlic oil.
If it's not garlic infused oil, you can use that as a garlic flavouring if you are intolerant of garlic and using the FODMAP diet.

Can you? Yeah, as long as it doesn't have actual garlic in it, those who are intolerant of garlic, which along with onions, are the worst offender. Yeah.

You can use that to flavor your food

finally david and bolton lasand's rapeseed oil tub of dripping for chips

a voice from the past yeah very lancashire yeah dripping

my kid used to eat dripping but i haven't seen him do that since the 1980s no it's a word you just don't hear anything tripe and dripping

tripe and dripping yeah good gracious tripe and dripping sandwiches

is it very northern isn't it dripping is it? Yeah. Well, it's an old, it's very working class.
Like he was from Birmingham, actually.

But it tastes very nice, though, dripping on toast. Does it? Yeah.
This is just like butter and with meat in it. Yeah, I suppose so, yeah.
Meat butter. You just don't.

I suppose you're probably in a butcher's shop, but you don't see it. People don't cook nose to tail anymore in their own homes.
They certainly don't.

My friend's grandmother, they used to eat hooves.

In the 80s.

Right, time for your correspondence. This is from Matt.
Tell my three P's in a podcast. Oh, that's quite good.
Just wanted to write in to fully vindicate Ellis.

I like that, because it very rarely happens. Running around the Silverstone Circuit was one of the most boring, soulless, and unexpectedly gruelling runs I've ever done.

I did a 10K there last year, and in the build-up, I had exactly the excitement and fizz that John described during his critique of Ellis's boring comment.

In my head, I was practically floating down the grid, ready to deliver lap-by-lap commentary like Murray Walker himself.

But once the race actually started, all the novelty evaporated almost instantly, just as I predicted.

I did manage a triumph fun, I'm coming into Stowe, early on, but after that you realise you've still got a solid 40 seconds of running before you're actually anywhere near Stowe and the fun drains away fast.

For most of the course, all you can hear is the relentless slap of trainers on tarmac, because friends, family, and well-wishers are only allowed in one tiny area at the start/slash finish line, and thanks to the flat open layout, you can see huge stretches of upcoming track far in the distance, which is far less motivating than you'd think.

It's like running towards a mirage that refuses to get any closer. Well, never again.
All the best. That maps.
That is interesting because that's a searing indictment. That's just as I predicted.

I was right once. If you ever, so if you're ever, I don't know if you experienced this, John, on your runs, if you're running on the pavement, it feels like you're going pretty fast.
Yeah.

Now, if for whatever reason, you need to run down the middle of a road, it feels like you're going slower because you're not near a cup.

Oh, interesting. No, well, maybe.
I just thought it was because you're kind of further away from the things that would be your reference points of what you're going past.

So you don't feel like you're going anywhere as much. So if you did that on a really wide track, it must make you feel like you're literally going nowhere.

I've started running, and what's demotivating is that I often run on routes that I cycle. So you're going so much faster on a bike.
You're like, oh, great. Yeah.
I'd be there by now. Yeah.

This is from Paddy in Edinburgh. It really made me laugh.
We were talking about work experience last week. Hello, my little smashers.

On the subject of work experience from your Tuesday episode, I was assigned to a surveyor's office, my year ten work experience. I was 14.

On my first day, we went to our first site visit, taking measurements for a sex shop in South Shields.

14.

My fault teacher, very religious lady, found it absolutely hilarious. Keep up the great work, you really liked it at my commute, but neither to a surveyor's office or a sex shop.

I'm now a dentist, buddy.

That's the dream.

Yeah.

My friend of mine, he, I think I might have said this before, he did work experience for a TV company in Wales, the mixed Kiv and Goulart, which is, I suppose it would be the Welsh language equivalent of

country file, but it's far more farm-orientated. Yeah.

And they were

filming an item about what's a taru potl in English, like a bull stud.

Uh, and obviously, if you've got a bull stud impregnating cows, you need to, I'm not going to be too graphic, you need to get the bull ready, yes. And what do you mean?

No, I know what he means.

My friend was in the edit and he said the stuff that was on the cutting receipt. Oh my lord,

you're renting it.

Um, go and match the sex shot. All my bags are currently in a sex shop.
What are you talking about, Steve?

And it's actually really stressing me out.

Are you in Hannah on the rocks? No.

So I got to London yesterday. It's chucking it down.
The bags, I always forget when I do these lovely club nights that I do look forward to doing. I'm doing a club night tomorrow.

I had to bring all the merch down. It's in a massive suitcase.
I've got a suitcase full of merch. And in the other bag, which you're meant to put Christmas wreaths in, but I bought Christmas.

You should have got it delivered to the venue. I know, I should have got it.
No, they wouldn't. No, the venue wouldn't let me do that.
They're very strict on things getting there the day before.

They don't like you doing things the day before. So I was a bit stuck.
And then I've got my neon sign over my other shoulder, which is

a wreath.

Like a Nindy Dick Whittington.

I've got my suitcase that's got all my nuts. Sorry, then I've got my rucksack, my fashionable rucksack.
Yeah.

I see you're panting it, Dave. I know.
Well, I'll get around to why they're in there. So I get to London and I suddenly think, I've got a meeting over in Oxford Street.
I can't carry it anymore.

I cannot carry it anymore. It's too much.
How did you think that was a waste? Because we don't think all the way through things, John. Okay.

We know I'm not perfect. We do.
None of us are

perfect, Dave. And I'm too optimistic.
I think, well, that's just three things.

The neon sign will go over that shoulder in that bag. I'll pull the big.
the big merch suitcase and the rook sign goes over my back. That's always my downfall.
I'm too optimistic.

And then an element of pride comes in. I think, I'll just, I will carry it.
I will. And I'll give myself a bad back.
There's a sign that says, luggage, you can store your luggage.

And there's like a row of shops that do that sort of stuff. And I went to this guy, and I was just desperate at this point.
And the guy's like, yeah, we'll store it for you.

I mean, I go through like the colourful streamers that, you know, sometimes kind of are always only on sex shops.

That are on no other shop on earth. And I walk in and I was like, this is weird.
I'm now kind of, why is this a shop? But no one's coming without really looking around the place.

I'm thinking, what is she doing with her? Oh, my God. Well, I'm like, what a weird shop because nothing's been advertised on it.

It was just one man behind

weird kind of souvenirs. Here doesn't look like Big Ben.
And he's like, oh, mate. I was like, oh, yeah.

So, is this the bag storage place? Like, yeah, you store your bags every day. I might.
So I kind of put the big bag underneath and I put the neon sign over there.

And it's only when I then look up properly. I'm like, oh, okay.
This is this is just an X-rated sex shop as well.

Then it's only when I'm walking out, because I'm so desperate to drop all the stuff off. About 10 minutes later, I'm like, what have I just done? Because I didn't really get a receipt.

Oh, my God. I just walked in there to drop the bags off.
So

surely anyone could just walk in and go and pick the bags up.

Or it'll just get covered in lube.

You just, they're just bag laundering companies. So, well, it's still there now.
How do you know? Because luckily, also stupidly, depends on how you look at this.

My iPad's in the big bag that's there. Oh, God.

Dave, you are not me.

And that's not a judgment. No, it can be not me.
Well, no, do you know what? I thought about you a lot. I would have taken the iPad and I'm me.
No, but I just, because you're taking me.

I mean, you're not him, but even I'm me.

I would be taking the iPad. Ellis is Ellis, that we have established.
Yeah, and that's awful. No, your iPad is in a sex shop.
So I'm outside the sex shop, right?

And the guy's like, well, just quickly take whatever you need for the suit for your rucksack which i was going to keep on me and leave everything else in your bag so you'd panic pants but you haven't got your ipad i've got my pants but my for some reason to come i'm running stuff out i've not been for a run so why did i transfer when were you thinking of going for a run this morning as i let me before when i woke up

i think you probably do need to run back to the sex i don't think you should do the tuesday show i think you should be running to a sex shop well i went back last night so i went there overnight yeah it's there some tomorrow morning which is a worry So you're tracking it on Find My iPad or whatever it is.

Yeah, so last night I went back to the sex shop after my, after I had a little bit to eat. I thought, you know, I'm just going to go and get other stuff because I'm worrying.

And I shouldn't have done it, but it said that it stored baggage. It does store luggage, so it's doing what it says.
Am I a little bit worried? Yes. What would John Robbins do? He'd go back.

None of any of this.

Nothing that you've done since you've left your house is what I would do. That's not to say it's right.
It's just different. It's much more more comfortable.
Fever difference.

That's what John always says. So I went back.
In fact, no, I tell a lie. I'd have gone to the sex shop.

So I went back. You know, people who run sex shops aren't necessarily by nature

dishonest.

They're honest people who love sex. It's not so much the type of shop it is.
Sex and profit. It's more, it's just very easy for me to drop the bags off.
I've not really got...

you've not got a tag

in a locked cupboard they asked me took a pic they asked me to take a picture of my own bags

i'm not i'm not surprised though that's how they make their money

so i've got pictures of my own bags on my phone so that he was like well you've taken pictures of your own bags oh good point you know what your bags look like i know

Again, you would not have done this. Is this your second language? You could use that photo to show to the police when you're reporting your bags lost.
But you know what?

Because I'm just too polite and I just want an easy life. That's my problem.
I want an easy life.

People who want an easy life don't take a neon sign to London and they put it in a sex shop. They leave the neon sign at home and think, I'll be all right without the neon sign.

You're right, because I don't need it. It doesn't really add much.
The venue's great. You don't need a neon light.
They've got their own lights. I like the neon sign.
Yeah. If you've had it made,

you're going to bring it to London.

So look, i'm just gonna show john there's my ipad okay just next to the station it's still there so what happens when it starts to move do you then i'm in trouble you then start to run yeah so you've got your running stuff for when the iPad moves and you can actually track them down absolutely so there you go

there it is Al it's it's happily there it's such a heavy bag no one's nicking the bag it's so heavy and it's just full of t-shirts that they're not gonna want to really do an opportunistic theft of a big neon sign do you

want neon sign It's got this CD. Oh, it's got my CD.
It's not the kind of thing you do a smash and grab for. Yeah.
The iPad, obviously, that's getting pinched.

So I went back last night to try and get it all because I worried. It was locked up, which was kind of disappointing, but also very reassuring because the door was padlocked.

So I thought it's safe in there overnight. Okay.

So that's where we're at. Did they have reviews on Google Maps?

What a funny story. I wasn't expecting that.

I've not looked at the reviews, John. Ah,

I just needed to

walk in the road between Masterman Avenue and Robbins Lane.

I just needed to drop the bags, John.

It won't have reviews because it probably won't even really exist.

If it does have reviews, it'll all be left anonymously, I'd imagine. Yes, that's a good point.

Right.

This is from Dan doing work experience for the Forestry Commission. Regarding John's desire to do work experience with the Forestry Commission, I can offer some some insight.

Back in 1996, I had the pleasure of doing just that. Unfortunately, my experience was not exactly how John described it.
I didn't die for starters.

Bury himself in the soil. Here are some highlights that John could enjoy.
Building an irrigation system.

Potting up pots whilst listening to a drab 1-1 draw between England and Switzerland in Euro 96. And it was drab, which people forget.

Oh, it was.

England won, Switzerland won at Euro 96. It was an extremely drab game.
It's the opening game, I think.

Sitting, enjoying vistas of bluebells deep in the forest while my older colleagues had a nap at lunch,

measuring girths of trees, sitting quietly in the office surrounded by porn mags whilst enjoying the banter of more experienced hands whose language was saltier than the sea. A lot to unpick there.

It was actually great, and I remember it very fondly. Thanks for all the laughs, Dan.
Oh, thanks, Dan. This is a nice email about the Forestry Commission.

My father worked for the Forestry Commission for 43 years. He retired.
He retired as head forester on Kerry Forest by Newtown. He worked all over north of Midwales at various times.

We moved a few times for job promotions and he loved his job.

The act of removing lower tree branches to improve growth is snedding, and at that time involved using a slasher, a big heavy blade on a short pole, very skilled.

As a child, I loved going on fire duty with my father in the forestry van, a Morris minor with a canvas covered back.

I was in a forest hut on a hill scanning the areas for fires with binoculars. Being able to go up to the woods to choose a Christmas tree was a perk we enjoyed.

One drawback was not having electricity till I was six, so no TV either, because houses were remote.

I went on to become a teacher in later life, and kids all thought I was Victorian because of the lack of TV and power as a child. Yours, Linda.
That sounds hydric. I love that.

I'd love to be a snedder. Yeah, yeah.

That's my dream job now, snedding. Snedding.

So that's it. Thank you very much for downloading.
We'll be back with you on Saturday for the Bureau de Change of the Mind.

And then, of course, on Tuesday, if you've got an email you'd like to send us, send it to alice and john at bbc.co.uk.

And of course, as John tucks it to us, Brownlee, because he just can't wait, you can also send us a WhatsApp on 07974293022. Love you lots.
Goodbye.

Hello, it's Ray Winstone. I'm here to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio 4: History's Toughest Heroes.

I got stories about the pioneers, the rebels, the outcasts who define tough.

And that was the first time that anybody ever ran a car up that fast with no tires on. It almost feels like your eyeballs are going to come out of your head.
Tough enough for you.

Subscribe to History's Toughest Heroes wherever you get your podcast.