209. Intersection of Passion, Skill, and Need with Terry Kim

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Speaker 5 They shouted. Would they find it in one place? This they questioned and doubted.
When suddenly a who yelled, Walmart's the place to start.

Speaker 5 And these who added headphones, TVs, and games to their carts. With Walmart, their shopping was done in a flurry.
They cried out, who knew? and ordered their gifts in a hurry.

Speaker 5 Shop the latest tech gifts in the Walmart app.

Speaker 5 There's a quote that goes like, discipline equals freedom.

Speaker 5 I actually have that on my vision board because discipline is the thing that you have to work on in order to do all these organizing focus blocks.

Speaker 5 Like if you don't have discipline, you won't be able to do any of that.

Speaker 5 In a crude laboratory in the basement of his home.

Speaker 6 Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the show.

Speaker 6 Today, we have an absolutely tremendous episode for you: a conversation with the founder and CEO of Next Dent Gen T Next Generation Training Academy, Terry Kim.

Speaker 6 He is also the author of a new book, Zero to Engineer: a Story of the American Dream. Terry has a wonderful story.

Speaker 6 He is an entrepreneur through and through, an incredible mindset, is all about peak performance, and just is the perfect kind of guest that we we love here on Finding Peak because he's operating at a level of high achievement that most will love to get to.

Speaker 6 And not only that, he is sharing openly and honestly about what it takes to find your success, find the best version of yourself, and is really working at it.

Speaker 6 You can tell how we work through this conversation,

Speaker 6 the casual, honest, authentic nature of the conversation, the type of person that Terry is. And just this is wonderful.
You're going to take a lot from it, and just happy to share the show with you.

Speaker 6 Guys, if you love listening to the Finding Peak podcast, my only ask for you, as every bit of this content is free and will be forever, as far as the podcast goes,

Speaker 6 is just share the show with friends. Text it to a friend, email it to a friend, send it to a group of people, share it with your team, share it on social media, however you prefer.

Speaker 6 Sharing the show helps the audience grow, helps more people find what we're doing, helps us connect with more incredible guests like

Speaker 6 Terry Kim, who I enjoy bringing to you so much. Obviously, I enjoy talking to these people, but I enjoy sharing the conversations with you.

Speaker 6 This is how we all get better and how we all become the best versions of ourselves, which is why we're here in the first place. So with all that, I love you for listening to this show.

Speaker 6 Let's get on to Terry Kim.

Speaker 6 All right. Well, so, so, dude, I am excited to have you on the show.

Speaker 6 You know, uh, mutual friend James referred you to me, said, Hey, this guy's awesome. Got to have him on the show.
Everybody sends over is awesome.

Speaker 5 So, you have a very high bar to jump over. No, I'm kidding.

Speaker 6 Um, but I was checking out yourself and loved it. And I think the, the best place to start, I think, would be, you know, with, with your, with your origin story.

Speaker 6 And again, go back as far as you think is, is relevant. Um, you know, this is one thing about the show, and I know you're not super familiar with it.

Speaker 6 And this is the first time we're chatting, is like, there's not, there's no rules here. We're, this is a conversation and whatever stories you want to tell, wherever you want to go, we're going to go.

Speaker 6 So we're, however far back you think is, is relevant to your story, we can start there.

Speaker 5 Yeah, so I'm going to take you back to 1999. And this is when I didn't even know like how to turn on a computer.
And so like my vision of a career, let's say at 21, was really

Speaker 5 to be in the entertainment music industry. So I actually was a DJ for a few years in Korea.
And then I actually had a K-pop album, two albums, really?

Speaker 5 Back in the day. Yeah, a huge identity shift.
And back,

Speaker 5 you know, at 21 at that time, now my ex-wife got pregnant. And, you know, my family was like, man, baby's come in.

Speaker 5 You know, you might want to look at a, you know, a different career path, something like that's more stable, things like that.

Speaker 5 And really, this movie called called the matrix 1999 yeah i watched that movie and it literally

Speaker 5 lit up a spark inside me and i was like this is the future and it was like pre-dot-com you know the bubble and so like all the tech companies were getting super hot ipoing and silicon valley there was a huge boom and I learned how to build my first PC.

Speaker 5 I always thought like I was working at a hotel at Dragon Hill Lodge on base in Seoul, Korea.

Speaker 5 And, and I had to do that to get my visa and to be able to stay in Korea because I'm actually a first generation Korean American, got naturalized at three.

Speaker 5 And, you know, I really wanted to get into technology and I thought it was the future, but I didn't know how to start. So I built my first PC from ground up and

Speaker 5 And I was like, wow, like, I'm really a hands-on learner. And I thought, you know, like college was a waste of time because I took like one computer class or in a history class.

Speaker 5 And I was like, why, this is a, this is a complete waste of time. And a lot of the things that I was being taught were also old, old stuff.

Speaker 5 And I wanted to work on the latest and greatest technologies. So the long story short is I actually waited six months for a special T job called the 3 Charlie 2.
network controller.

Speaker 5 It's, it's a, you needed a top secret clearance and it was to build infrastructure for the Air Force. And I thought that job was so cool.

Speaker 5 I waited six months and then met my recruiter and got, you know, enrolled. And I actually enrolled from Okinawa, and then they sent me to the U.S.

Speaker 5 for technical or basic training in Texas, Lackland Air Force Base. And then I had four months of technical training.
And that's how I started my career was through the Air Force.

Speaker 5 And I served for five years and got out. And

Speaker 5 yeah, and that's kind of the origin story right there.

Speaker 6 Now,

Speaker 6 building your first computer, like

Speaker 6 there's a lot of people, most people, the vast majority of people, the idea of just building a computer. I mean, I use computers every day.

Speaker 6 I would never even contemplate building one. What do you think it was like that said to you, hey, you know what, I'm going to build one of these things? Like, I had a computer in 1999.

Speaker 6 The idea of making a computer never

Speaker 6 even came across my mind. So, what do you think it is about your personality or just maybe whatever that

Speaker 6 enticed you to, you know, research, purchase the materials, put it together, figure out how to do it and how to make it work?

Speaker 5 Yeah, like I would say traditional education is like textbook heavy, right? Like listening to lectures and diving into books.

Speaker 5 Well, I've always learned that I accelerate my learning process by getting my hands dirty.

Speaker 5 So, like, hands on is how I learn, or looking over someone's shoulder, I can learn and absorb information like a sponge, but it has to be practical.

Speaker 5 So, I think what led me to wanting to build my PC was actually,

Speaker 5 because I used to love Legos. I used to like, you know, growing up.
And when I saw the technology

Speaker 5 for just IT in general, I knew that computers had to talk to one another. And when computers talk to one another, that forms a network.

Speaker 5 And I knew that like the internet booming, like I wanted to work on what I call the plumbing of the internet. The infrastructure of the internet is going to be so vast.
And I saw that.

Speaker 5 I had a glimpse. I felt like I had a premonition, like this is the future.
And, you know, just to give you some context, 1999, 1 million devices were only connected to the internet.

Speaker 5 Now we're at about 25 billion with the internet.

Speaker 5 It's insane how much progress we've made or been connected to the online world in the last 20 years. But you know, I said, like, if this is the NPC,

Speaker 5 I would love to know how all the components work. The CPU is the brain, there's memory, there's a hard drive.
So my brain was like, let me just get all these pieces.

Speaker 5 and put it together like a Lego, right?

Speaker 5 And that's what just came up. I guess I was confident in being able to build it because maybe my Lego skills was let's buy all these separate components, power supply, motherboard, RAM, CPU.

Speaker 5 And it just didn't seem like rocket science to me. I was like, you know what? I'm just going to, you know, buy all these pieces and yeah, put them together.

Speaker 5 And when I built that first PC, it was a huge confidence booster. Like, wow, I just built my custom PC.
Let me load some software on it. And I would say that really

Speaker 5 also sparked my interest for gaming. And so in my early years, I used to play a lot of StarCraft and Counter-Strike.
But that allowed me to build my first custom gaming rig.

Speaker 6 Did it, the first time you hit the switch, did it, did it turn on?

Speaker 6 Did it work the first time you hit the switch?

Speaker 5 It did turn on. Yes, it did.
And what's cool is in Seoul, there's this place called the Yongson. electronic market.
So I was like, I went to this electronic market.

Speaker 5 It's like all gadgets, every store like you can think of, like it was, it was like shopping in a big candy store for different components. It was cool.
It was a very fun process.

Speaker 5 But yeah, I recommend that for anyone that wants to explore a career in IT, it's like just build your first PC.

Speaker 5 It builds up a lot of confidence. And then you actually know like what the different components are.

Speaker 5 And, you know, if you take any complex idea, the first thing, you know, like Tim Ferriss has this in some of his books, like The Four Hour Chef, like you just just break down this complex subject or idea into chunks, into digestible chunks.

Speaker 5 And that's exactly what I did with the PC. Yeah.

Speaker 6 Now,

Speaker 6 do you think that that type of process works for anything? Do you think it's particularly relevant to PCs and engineering? Or,

Speaker 6 because I've heard other people describe, you know, that, that type of thought process or mental model set where you, you take this large, complex problem that seems overwhelming and unachievable, but when you look at the component parts,

Speaker 6 well, I could do this. Well, okay, I could do this part.
And hey, this, this looks this, I can do it. So

Speaker 6 is that something that is, let me ask it a better way. Is this a concept that has transcended your life? Or is it something that you particularly look at just in the engineering and IT world?

Speaker 5 I look at it with all processes or like tasks or goals.

Speaker 5 I really like using these frameworks. So I'll give you an example.

Speaker 5 If you're an entrepreneur and you want to get a business up and running, I have this framework called dream, believe, create, execute, and focus.

Speaker 5 So it's taking this huge idea of launching a company and saying, hey, how do I even start? Right. And the big framework is the dream.
You have to first dream of it.

Speaker 5 whether you're dreaming at night or you're dreaming during the day about this vision or product or problem that you're just so passionate about solving and then believing in that dream because a lot of entrepreneurs or first-time entrepreneurs make the mistake is that

Speaker 5 they don't do anything about it because they don't believe in it if they believed in it and believed in themselves or the idea they would create a plan because that's step three you create a plan once you create a plan you execute that plan that you just created and the last step is to just focus follow on course until successful that is the five-step framework to go after any idea and manifest it.

Speaker 5 So that's just kind of one process that I've used year over year.

Speaker 5 And there's other kind of mental frameworks that I've used to take complex ideas or goals or tasks and just break it down into digestible chunks and it's less overwhelming. Yeah.

Speaker 6 Do you know Tim Grover? He wrote Winning and Relentless. He has a video series that's out right now that's really good

Speaker 6 called Breakthrough. And one of the the key components of the series is this idea of being all in.
And he talks about in there how

Speaker 6 the vast majority of people love to talk about the things that they want to do, talk about their dreams, but they don't actually,

Speaker 6 they never actually believe them or, and in most cases, commit to them.

Speaker 6 And that's, that is like, he said, if you can get through, you know, and he's got this whole 10-step, whatever, but like his idea is like the all-in phase to me

Speaker 6 can be the, it's probably the most important because we can dream anything, right? Like, I have good ideas every bad ideas every 10 seconds.

Speaker 6 But if you, if you don't actually believe in it and aren't actually willing, and I think this goes hand in hand with that, aren't actually willing to go all in on that idea, then creating a plan, executing, and focusing never happen.

Speaker 6 Or if they do, they're always

Speaker 6 a shade gray of what they could be, if that makes sense, at least from my perspective. You know, sometimes you hear people say, you know, I really want to be this thing.

Speaker 5 I really want to be a writer. I really want to write a book.

Speaker 6 Except, how often do you write? Well, you know, I try to find some times on the weekend to write. Well, then

Speaker 6 you're not a writer. You know what I mean? That's a hobby.
That's different. What do you think it is in your experience that keeps people from this,

Speaker 6 in your framework, it's believe or this all-in phase, this phase where you go from

Speaker 6 idea to commitment?

Speaker 6 What is the hang up there? What do you think keeps people from making that jump?

Speaker 5 It's easy. Comfort.
People love comfort and most people do not like change. And so it's a scary jump.

Speaker 5 And so, for example, my dream job was to work at Cisco one day at 21 and I and I focused and stayed on that dream. And at 31, I was there in a decade.
I was, you know, at the top of my career.

Speaker 5 And I was making,

Speaker 5 this is like 2012. I was making like 2010, 2012, making like 175, you know, plus.

Speaker 5 And so really good money, but really also felt like a cloud in a whale. It's like, hmm, I've reached the peak of my career.
Where do I want to take things next? And I had the startup idea.

Speaker 5 I had that big dream, seeing other engineers start tech companies and startups and business. And,

Speaker 5 you know,

Speaker 5 I went, you know, I'm going to go all in on this thing. And so I literally saved up six months of savings and I quit my job when everyone thought I was crazy because I wanted to go all in.

Speaker 5 So you, you, I think people get caught up is that

Speaker 5 they don't, they don't want to be in an uncomfortable situation. So that transition, that commitment becomes hard.

Speaker 5 Whereas if you really truly believe in that dream and you're passionate about it, it's not just like you're just chasing money and there's actually meaning and purpose, that's when I think the commitment becomes easier and you can go all in.

Speaker 5 And when you go all in, you shouldn't half-ass it. You should burn the boats, right?

Speaker 5 And then you'll figure it out along the way because it's a new venture, but it's that hero's journey.

Speaker 5 And if you're okay with learning a new set of skills, every time you have an identity shift, that's okay. That's part of the journey.
And that's where the the beauty lies in

Speaker 5 in my opinion.

Speaker 6 You know, I've said this before on the show, and I'll probably say it 10 million more times. Every decision that I've made where money was more than a negligible factor

Speaker 6 has been a decision that has either ended poorly or was a,

Speaker 6 ended up being a nothing burger, right? Like it either was a net neutral,

Speaker 6 you know, nothing really happened or came of it, or it was actually a negative outcome when money was anything more. It doesn't mean you can't want to be, want to make money and want to be wealthy.

Speaker 6 I mean, that's perfectly fine. I, I'm capitalist.
I have no problem with that. But when, as you said, and I love chasing the money, I love how you put that.

Speaker 6 When you're, when you're chasing the money, those decisions, they never end up aligning with, I think, your ability to do what's necessary over the long term.

Speaker 6 I think a certain amount of money, survival money is probably motivational enough to persevere. But once you hit survival money, it's just not going to push you through those moments where

Speaker 6 it feels like everything's falling apart.

Speaker 5 You're going to bail.

Speaker 6 You're not going to make the right decisions.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 I love that, the way you phrase that of chasing money.

Speaker 5 It just, to me, is exactly right. That's correct.
Like, there's a Harvard study,

Speaker 5 I believe.

Speaker 6 What's up, guys? Sorry to take you away from the episode, but as you know, we do not run ads on this show. And in exchange for that, I need your help.

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Speaker 6 comment if you're on YouTube, leave a rating review if you're on Spotify or Apple iTunes, et cetera. This helps the show grow.
It helps me bring more guests in.

Speaker 6 We have a tremendous lineup of people coming in, men and women who've done incredible things sharing their stories around peak performance, leadership, growth, sales, the things that are going to help you grow as a person and grow your business.

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Peace. Let's get back to the episode.

Speaker 5 That state, they did a study group and they were showing in this report that if you make over like

Speaker 5 minimum 72,000 or something like that, that the happiness

Speaker 5 lever doesn't go up beyond that, right? So like in the United States, if you have food, shelter, water, all that covered, it's like, what is your, what is your ikigai?

Speaker 5 So, there's a Japanese concept called ikigai where it's your passion. Like, what do you love? And what does the world need, right? In terms of product or service, right?

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 like, what's your skills? What are you really good at? Or what are some skills you want to learn? Yeah. Because you're passionate about this.
And then you get paid for it. So

Speaker 5 that is a very powerful concept of Ikiguy that we can kind of reflect on as we think about these dreams and goals that we have. And not everyone needs to start a business or whatnot.

Speaker 5 But if you have this kind of

Speaker 5 Ikigui and kind of entrepreneur mindset, you could also do really well

Speaker 5 in a Fortune 500 or Fortune 100 company as well. And it will pay a lot of dividends because that is the magic.
That's where the magic happens and you're able to go into flow. Yeah.

Speaker 6 Now, flow for me is something that, I mean, obviously, I mean, I don't want to, I'm going to say the word that I believe in it. I think everyone does.
I think we call it a bunch of different things.

Speaker 6 When you're, you know, when you're an athlete, it might be in the zone.

Speaker 6 You know,

Speaker 6 how everyone gets there. tends to be slightly different, but there are some core activities.

Speaker 6 I mean, I guess my question is more, do you cultivate flow states or do you just accept them as they happen?

Speaker 5 Yeah, it's an interesting question. So I would say both.
I would say one is your why. Like you have to know your why, your mission.

Speaker 5 So for me, starting NGT Academy, I was just really sick to my stomach to see people drowning.

Speaker 5 in student loan debt, 100 to 200,000 in student loan debt, chasing these, you know, American Institute of Tech, or back in the day was

Speaker 5 ITT Tech. Yeah.
They were huge. They were doing like 800 million a year

Speaker 5 and selling these $85,000 network admin degrees. And I knew that was a scam.
Like call it what it is, you know, lack a better word, that you didn't need to go to college for four years.

Speaker 5 Like I was an instructor with a top secret clearance that had to take 18 year old high school graduates and get them ready for the battlefield to set up mission critical networks, right?

Speaker 5 Because they could get deployed to Afghan anytime. And so it's about skills training.
It's about can you perform on the job?

Speaker 5 And I knew that you could train people in a apprenticeship model of teaching them real world skills and validating those skills versus having them memorize a bunch of books and questions so they can pass a quiz or a test.

Speaker 5 And then we say that's their aptitude. Yeah, you can do that all day long, but these college graduates with diplomas

Speaker 5 drowned in a 100K student loan still can't get a job in IT. And they're wondering why is because they haven't learned the actual skills.

Speaker 5 You know, you could read about playing a guitar all day long, but until you pick up that guitar and start messing around with it, you're not going to learn. the skills of actually becoming an artist.

Speaker 5 So same rules apply to engineering as well. Yeah.

Speaker 6 I struggle with this because I got two kids,

Speaker 6 nine and seven, soon to be 10 and eight. And,

Speaker 6 you know, even though we're a ways off, we're not that far off. And from them, you know, college being something that starts to come up.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 5 I

Speaker 6 struggle with this so much because, you know, I went to college. I went to college.

Speaker 6 The reason I chose the college is because they gave me the most money. I was a poor kid.
I was super poor.

Speaker 6 Going to college was not even, you know, my parent, when I told my parents, when I came home and said, guys,

Speaker 6 I think I want to go to college, I was like, great. You know what I mean? It was like, there was no expectation.
There was no nothing.

Speaker 6 She just, you know, she was happy, obviously, but like the idea, if I didn't go, it would, it wouldn't even have come up. You know what I mean?

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 6 so my, and my point in saying all that is, like, I went to wherever I went. I went mostly because they would pay me to play baseball when I went there.
So that was was great.

Speaker 6 I have a degree.

Speaker 6 I don't use the degree at all, ever. I don't know that I remember one singular thing that I learned the entire time that I was there.
And my point in saying that is,

Speaker 6 what is the use case for college today? Like everyone's like, oh, well, if you're a doctor. Well, yeah, but like you could just go to.

Speaker 5 doctor school for that, right?

Speaker 6 Like, why do you need to go to a four-year school and then go to doctor school? Like, if you're going to be an engineer, you could just go to engineering school.

Speaker 6 Like, if you want to be, you know, I look at, so the industry,

Speaker 6 like the foundational industry of my career is the insurance industry. And, and we took, um, from day one, I founded a national commercial insurance agency is my background.

Speaker 6 And from day one, high school diploma was all you had to have. You never had to get a college degree to work at our agency.
I never even thought anything of it.

Speaker 6 I just, growing up where I grew up, I knew a lot of smart people that don't have college degrees that run successful plumbing businesses and contracting businesses and bakeries and all different shit around town.

Speaker 6 I live in upstate New York, and they don't have college degrees. They, you would never know today.
You'd never know.

Speaker 6 So I didn't even think anything of it. And it came out about a year ago.
There was a conversation happening and I said like in a forum at a conference one time like

Speaker 5 we don't require a college degree.

Speaker 6 And it was like the look in the audience was like, it was like, oh, what? You know, and then some people started clapping, but you could tell like

Speaker 6 there was an uncomfortableness around even saying that out loud.

Speaker 6 One, why do you think that stigma still exists considering everything we know about college today and about the expense, et cetera?

Speaker 6 And do you see this as a continued movement as we go to organizations like yours where where I can get the exact education I want knowing that I'm going to be highly trained and I don't have to deal with all the fluff and it's going to be at a cost that actually allows me to be successful in life and doesn't bury me.

Speaker 6 Like, do you see, what do you think this hesitation is? And do you see this trend continuing?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I think the hesitation is that like we've been brainwashed as a society that college equals more dollars and more stable careers. So that being rooted into our public education system as

Speaker 5 we get older, think about when you went to high school. What is everyone doing? Preparing for college, right? SATs, like it's all indoctrinated.
So to change,

Speaker 5 you know,

Speaker 5 like, I don't know, 70 years of programming, like,

Speaker 5 that's hard to, you know, do overnight. We have students that still think that they have to go to college and when it didn't work out for them, because why?

Speaker 5 Here's an interesting stat that will blow you away: 53% of college graduates do not get jobs in their field. So what are we doing now? Oh, let's, okay, mom and dad, let me flip a coin.

Speaker 5 Am I going to get my job? Literally, you're spending four years to flip a coin to see if you even land that job that you want. Wherein in IT, like

Speaker 5 doctor, like you need to know a lot of like reading and textbook if you want to be a doctor and lawyer. Those are great career fields for college, or even if you want to be a scientist.

Speaker 5 But when it comes to information technology, I'm basically giving the entire playbook in my newly released book, Zero to Engineer, Story of American Dream, is that you don't need to go to college for four years when you can train for four months, get two IT certifications under your belt, and I guarantee you will be able to get a job interview.

Speaker 5 And if you do great on that job interview, that's what gets your foot in the door. And IT usually will pay like anywhere from 40 to 80,000 starting out.

Speaker 5 And within just a short couple years, you can break six figures. And that's the beauty of this

Speaker 5 job market. I think moving forward with Google, Uber, Tesla, everyone saying college degree is not a requirement anymore.
We were really doing skills assessment, aptitude testing is potentiality.

Speaker 5 But now employers are wanting more skills-based talent coming into the workforce. So I think NEM is changing.

Speaker 5 And NGT Academy, you know, we're at the forefront of reprogramming people's mind that there is truly an alternative, what we call technical or vocational training.

Speaker 5 And it's the faster way because by the time that guy that enrolled in that IT degree, four years,

Speaker 5 our students would be three,

Speaker 5 three, and three to three and a half years already into their job.

Speaker 5 And that means that they're probably going to be promoted to like a mid-level role, you know, by the time that college student graduates trying to get his first job. Yeah.

Speaker 6 Now,

Speaker 6 this, this idea of apprenticeship, in my opinion, is a way better way to go. Do you see a lot of mid-career individuals coming over?

Speaker 6 Like someone who, hey, I, I went to college, thought I wanted to be an accountant. I got 10 years in and just said, man, I don't love this.
I've always loved computers. I've always loved IT.

Speaker 6 And now they're looking at NGT Academy as an opportunity to make a transition? Are you seeing a lot of those type of people as well?

Speaker 5 Absolutely.

Speaker 5 80% of our students that enroll are people that are switching careers. And they usually,

Speaker 5 you know, eight out of 10 times already have a bachelor's degree in a non-related or even an IT-related field, and they just haven't been able to break through yet.

Speaker 5 So, yeah, we've been able to take people that are switching careers. We've even had a student, Carl Scott,

Speaker 5 he's on our IG with a reel on him and it's an amazing story. He was a bike rider in New York City doing errands and bike delivery for businesses, making $400 a week.

Speaker 5 And he was 60 years old and he came to our program and with nine months, we placed him at a consulting firm, a big one, part of the big fork called Accenture.

Speaker 5 And his starting salary was $102,000 as a cybersecurity consultant analyst. So that kind of shows you, right? Like he at 60, he didn't want to go back to college for four years.
Yeah. Right.

Speaker 5 But, you know, switching, like you could be

Speaker 5 like in any job. We've taken like a forklift driver, literally, now he works at Google and manages their entire wide area infrastructure team.
So it's like game-changing stuff. Why is that possible?

Speaker 5 Because we're the real deal. Me and my co-founder, we were instructors in the Air Force.
And we had both six-figure careers in IT as architects.

Speaker 5 So it's like, like, if you want to fast track learning any skill set, you know, I always recommend find someone who's done it, right?

Speaker 5 Like we're a school who's done it and placed thousands and thousands of students into amazing careers.

Speaker 5 So it's like, yeah, find someone who's done what you want to do and figure out a shorter path to it. Don't always believe.

Speaker 5 that there is this one single path and only, you know, college is the only answer, right? That's where people really mess up on

Speaker 6 what kind of impact do you think your military career and then being a trainer in the military had on your ability to take these concepts and package them in a way that allows people to be uh

Speaker 6 to to to reach a level of expertise as as quickly as you are getting them to? Do you think, I mean, did it play a major role? Is there something special about the way the military trains people, etc.

Speaker 5 Yeah, um, military is about job readiness. So the way they train is skills-based, right? And that's a big difference.
So

Speaker 5 it carried a big, big role into

Speaker 5 my,

Speaker 5 you know, my thought process around training in itself. So I would say absolutely,

Speaker 5 it had played a vital role because we knew it could be done. We knew we could train people to become engineers within four months of training.
In fact, like we, we were pretty much the highest,

Speaker 5 you know,

Speaker 5 had the highest re-enlistment bonus because of the skills that you would learn to be a tech controller.

Speaker 5 Now it's called Three Delta, Cyber Ops Command, and they merged a couple like network and system admin careers together.

Speaker 5 And now, if you think about it, if I think about the military days, it's like tech school. Think about air traffic controllers, another super complex job to learn and to master.

Speaker 5 And that training was six months, right? Not four years, right? Because military, they don't have time to mess around. These people are signing up for four-year enrollment.

Speaker 5 So the training has to be compressed. It has to be real.
It has to be practical. And that's fundamentally different than

Speaker 5 a college institute objective. Their objective is to do two years extended general studies.
Like, why do you even do that, right?

Speaker 5 Like, that's like taking high school kind of subjects and extending it for two more years. And so

Speaker 5 it's like, if that's why colleges also have started to adopt one-year certificate programs, because they're seeing these vocational schools like us doing it faster, cheaper, and better than what they're used to, right?

Speaker 5 So if you take

Speaker 5 any complex idea, going back to Tim Ferriss's this method, I don't know if you ever heard of that. Yeah.

Speaker 5 This DIST method is pretty, pretty amazing. Like it stands for D for deconstruction.

Speaker 5 So taking that complex thing and breaking it out into units or modules.

Speaker 5 S for selection, taking the 20%

Speaker 5 Pareto through, what's going to give 80% of the results. So selecting out of once you deconstructed it, and then sequencing it in a particular order.

Speaker 5 And then having some stakes in the ground so you have that commitment to be able to, you know, get through this project or this complex idea or goal you have. I love that.

Speaker 6 I, um, that was from, is that from the four-hour workweek or was that from the four-hour

Speaker 5 four-hour chef? Chef, yeah, from the chef. I know, I know, to learn anything.

Speaker 5 Well, actually, actually, I take that back. It is from the four-hour workweek.
Yeah. To learn anything you want.

Speaker 6 But he expands upon it in the chef. I feel like in the four-hour chef is where he really takes that and runs it out a little more.

Speaker 6 You know, the interesting thing about the, I mean, this is contextual, but the interesting thing about the four-hour work week is that, and he even said this a couple of weeks ago on his podcast, like even though every tool that he talks about is completely defunct or and or not the best in class tool that exists anymore,

Speaker 6 the process that he works through disk, and there's a couple others in there,

Speaker 6 completely relevant, completely applicable to today.

Speaker 6 And it goes back to what, to your process and what you said about breaking down these things into smaller chunks so they're manageable, they feel achievable.

Speaker 6 And then, you know, it also comes up with the concept, and just as an fellow entrepreneur and someone who's done a lot of really interesting things,

Speaker 6 and this is something I even struggle with is, is, you know, something, and this is something Tim talks about, because I know he also struggles with it, is

Speaker 6 celebrating those small milestone wins so that you feel that continued momentum.

Speaker 6 Like even if you do break it up in chunks, a lot of times, like high achievers or fast movers, like you, you finish the thing and you should like give yourself a moment to go, like, yeah, like, I did that.

Speaker 6 I did, I got phase one done, you know, instead, we just plow right through it, keep burning the candle and get into two. So,

Speaker 6 you know, for, for, for you, you know, you've built NGT, you've now written a book. Um, do you have a, you have a, uh, a sleep mask company as well that I see that you founded and run?

Speaker 6 Like, you know, how do you, when you have all these projects going on, all these things you're trying to do, uh, you're obviously an ambitious guy, incredibly intelligent guy. How do you keep yourself

Speaker 6 focused when you have multiple projects going on at once? How do you prioritize which thing needs your attention now when there's an onslaught of things coming on?

Speaker 6 I think that's something particularly today a lot of people struggle with.

Speaker 5 Yeah, so it goes down to really

Speaker 5 when I look at any projects or goals, it's just getting super organized. So as easy as this may sound, a lot of people don't do it.
So, it's like, for example,

Speaker 5 I have a team. We do daily stand-ups and we talk about what we did yesterday, talk about what we're going to work on today, and we talk about any blockers.
And that's a daily cadence.

Speaker 5 So, stand-ups are very important for accountability and

Speaker 5 making things move every day. And then for yourself, it's really organizing what are just your top three goals, right? Like, just top three goals, apply the 80-20.

Speaker 5 Like, if I knock this out, this is the 2080 that's going to make 80% of my impact for the day. So it's like, what do I want to accomplish today?

Speaker 5 You know, in my top three, like this podcast interview was one of those top three goals.

Speaker 5 And so setting up an evening routine, setting up a morning routine, so you know exactly when you wake up, this is what I'm going to work on.

Speaker 5 So that is one, to know what you're going to work on every day and prioritizing by the top three and then creating focus blocks.

Speaker 5 So on my calendar, I like to block things out like two hours at a time where I can work on something and I can get excited about it.

Speaker 5 So I put notes in there, I put whatever I'm going to focus on, and it's uninterrupted time. And I recommend getting into flow state.
in the morning and one in the afternoon.

Speaker 5 So now you have two flow states where you can get a lot of work done and it's focused work.

Speaker 5 And if there are work is if there's work that you feel like is easy, like do them really quick in the morning. And it allows you to stack the wins and you can stack your wins.

Speaker 5 Like there is a scientific research now that shows that if you are going to wake up and make your bed every morning, right? This is why the military does this.

Speaker 5 Like they'll wake you up at four and you have to make your bed in within like one minute, like 60 seconds to make your bed five minutes to go in the shower shave and like literally come out for roll call so why do they do that in like five minutes that's freaking crazy well it's about you know

Speaker 5 getting stuff done in a rapid manner and just being able to apply uh discipline because one you know there's a quote that goes like discipline equals freedom.

Speaker 5 I actually have that on my vision board because discipline is the thing that you have to work on in order to do all these organizing focus blocks.

Speaker 5 Like if you don't have discipline, you won't be able to do any of that. So when I have multiple projects, I only work on projects.
If you're a first-time entrepreneur, go heads down on one idea.

Speaker 5 Now, as you, you know,

Speaker 5 get more matured and you can handle multiple projects, it's like, are all your projects things you're passionate about, right?

Speaker 5 And that'll weed out the noise because you have to say no. As a founder, as an entrepreneur, you have to say no to a lot of things.
And that gives you clarity on focused projects.

Speaker 5 And I truly believe that any founder, entrepreneur, a high-level entrepreneur can juggle multiple projects. It's like,

Speaker 5 are those projects meaningful? Are they really things that you really want to work on? Right. So

Speaker 5 yeah, that's my advice for that. And there's always this perennial.
A lot of people think like you have to work 80 hours a week for one idea.

Speaker 5 There are so many case studies where you could work on a side project only doing 10 hours a week.

Speaker 5 You know, the founder of 37 Signals that founded Basecamp, right, David Hannemeier Hansen, DHH, they call him, he actually started Basecamp while he was going to college and doing that part-time, like very minimum, like 10, 15 hours a week.

Speaker 5 But what that also provides is when you block out your time and you instead of like giving yourself 40 hours, right? Or like, here's a better example. Some people write a book.

Speaker 5 And like you said, they'll take forever to write that book. Why? Because they give in, they're like, I'm going to work on this book.
I heard writing a book takes years.

Speaker 5 Well, yeah, if you allot two years to write the book, it's going to get done in two years.

Speaker 5 But what if you said, hey, I'm going to knock this book out in one week, which is what I did, which is probably sounds crazy to a lot of people.

Speaker 5 But I was like, who are the people that are writing books in one week? And I bought this course on how to write a book over a weekend. And basically, you know, I got super focused.

Speaker 5 I got a cabin out in the woods up in North Arizona. And I went there, you know, for like four days.
And I just cranked out this book without any interruption.

Speaker 5 And that's all I needed because I gave myself only four days. Yeah.
Like literally. So like.
What if you have that pressure?

Speaker 5 I'm not saying everyone can work under this pressure, but I work really good on the pressure. And when things are compressed, and there's an absolute deadline, yeah.

Speaker 6 Have you read the book, uh, 10x is easier than 2x by Benjamin Hardy?

Speaker 6 No, I would highly recommend just based on what you've said to me so far. One, I think you'll friggin love it.
It's it's my number one book for 2023, absolutely phenomenal.

Speaker 6 Ben Hardy wrote this book with Dan Sullivan. Um, and the whole concept, you know, to break it down in a nutshell, there's tons of good stuff in here.

Speaker 6 I mean, I just, from what you're saying, I think you'd love it. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna recommend it to you.
I've recommended it to the audience a bunch of times, but

Speaker 6 the core concept is most of us think in 2x goals. I made $75,000 this year.
I would like to make $150,000 in five years, right? That's my, I want a 2X where I'm at. Okay, great.

Speaker 6 The problem with 2X goals is that there's 10,000 ways to get there, right? To go from making $75,000 a year to $150,000 a year, honestly,

Speaker 6 for an able-by-minded, able-bodied adult,

Speaker 6 there's a thousand ways for you to do that. But when you 10x a goal, if you say, I made $75,000 this year, I want to make $750,000 next year.

Speaker 6 There's only going to be one, maybe two ways to get there. That's it.

Speaker 6 And what it forces you to do is take all these options, all these distractions, all these different paths, and say, nope, if I honestly, if I, to your thing, to believe, to step number number two of your process, right?

Speaker 6 If I want, if I actually believe that what I want is 700,000, you know, just saying that $750,000 in personal income, there's only one way I'm going to get there.

Speaker 6 And it's going to be specific to me, whatever that way is, but I have to do this. I have to do better than anybody in the world.
And I have to do this thing over and over and over again.

Speaker 6 And I can get there. But there's only one thing.
And that to me, like saying it out loud to you, I'm like, duh, right? Like, duh, that makes sense.

Speaker 6 But it took reading that book and and hearing the stories and hearing the concepts and the, you know, the way he frames it. And Ben, Ben Hart, Benjamin Hardy is a great writer.

Speaker 6 Man, I got to the end of the book and it literally changed 2023 for me because all of a sudden I went, oh my God, I have like 15 irons in the fire. And I thought that that was like a badge of honor.

Speaker 5 You know what I mean? I got this and I'm working on this and I'm working over here.

Speaker 6 And I'm like, yet I'm not putting all of myself into any of these things. So then I, you know, kind of collapsed that.

Speaker 6 And I'm actually doing, I don't know if you've ever done this, but this is a really cool project.

Speaker 6 Highly recommend an accountability buddy, but I'm doing

Speaker 6 Darren Hardy's different guy, different family, living your best year ever.

Speaker 6 So this is, this is an accountability program. And

Speaker 6 you got to find someone who is equally ambitious, who

Speaker 6 is going to be honest with you. You have to find the right accountability partner, or this program does not work.
I tried it once by myself. Did not work.

Speaker 6 With the right accountability partner, this is an incredible framework because essentially what it does is it forces you to focus on only three things. And then every single week, you have to show up.

Speaker 6 And there's a whole thing to it, which I'm not going to get into, but every single week, you have to show up and report what you said you would do to get to those three banner goals and then what you're going to do for the next meeting.

Speaker 6 And then your partner does the opposite and you hold each other accountable to the things you said you would do. And, but, but what it does is it takes, and you have to come all the way down.

Speaker 6 And there's, there's like two months worth of work leading up to when you actually pick your goals.

Speaker 6 And, and this goes back to something else you said, and it's why I'm taking so much time on this topic. So I apologize.
But

Speaker 6 you had talked about people don't slow down to actually do the planning work.

Speaker 6 And my point in all of this rambling is that in this program, literally there are like two, it's like six weeks to two months worth of work before you figure out what your goals are for the year.

Speaker 6 I mean, and people don't take 10 minutes to think about what their goals are. And this program is forcing you to take two months.

Speaker 6 And I think that just speaks to, you know, the whole, you know, what's Abraham Lincoln? If I were gonna, if I were gonna

Speaker 6 spend six hours chopping wood, I'd spend four hours sharpening my axe. Like,

Speaker 6 we just don't take that time. We don't slow down.
We don't focus. And therefore, we end up scattered all over the map working on things that we don't even actually want to do.

Speaker 5 Exactly. We live in a dopamine society, right?

Speaker 5 Like everything is like scrolling, reaction, like, you know, chasing shiny objects, or like, oh, like, you know, and it's, it's a lot of distraction, yeah, to be honest.

Speaker 5 When you don't have meaning or purpose in your life,

Speaker 5 you get distracted and you're always, you know, chasing stuff. When in reality,

Speaker 5 you know,

Speaker 5 I'm in my 40s now and it's like, I realize that working on yourself is the most important thing you can do as an entrepreneur.

Speaker 5 Like working on yourself. And if you work on yourself, you will be able to slow down.
You will be able to create a master plan because you've spent time to be in stillness, to reflect.

Speaker 5 What's your values? What are you truly passionate about? What's your objective for building this business? Like, why do you want more money? Is it impact or money?

Speaker 5 Like, you have to spend time, you know, reflecting on these things. And like, I promise you, if you do these things,

Speaker 5 things will

Speaker 5 execute in a more beautiful way with consistency and without distraction and focus. And ultimately, if you can combine discipline and focus, you will be able to achieve anything you want in this life.

Speaker 6 You know,

Speaker 6 I think that's beautiful and I completely agree with you.

Speaker 6 One of the things that I found, again, I'm also in my, in my 40s and at this point in my career, when I'm talking to other successful entrepreneurs or business professionals or

Speaker 6 people who are successful in whatever it is they do,

Speaker 6 early in your career, mid-30s, early 30s, 20s for sure, and before that, you're just a dummy.

Speaker 6 You know, you.

Speaker 6 This, that, what you just said, stillness, time, working on yourself, those are thought almost or seen as or characterized, unless it's some influencer spewing platitudes.

Speaker 6 Those things are often seen as like fluffy, extraneous, luxurious things that people don't have time for. Yet

Speaker 6 at this age,

Speaker 6 talking to the people that I find in my life to be the most inspirational, most admirable, successful, they would say what you just said, that

Speaker 6 they have in their career built space that allows them to go for a walk walk without headphones or, you know, do cold plunge and then read a book or whatever their thing is, right?

Speaker 6 Go for a run, whatever their thing is that allows them that moment of headspace, they all take it.

Speaker 6 And that is a clear maturation point in a successful individual's life, whether it's being a successful spouse or partner, parent, fundraiser, entrepreneur.

Speaker 5 guitar player, whatever.

Speaker 6 I feel like at some point you mature into this phase where you go, you know what? The only way to get to the next level is to actually build space and time into my life.

Speaker 6 If you were speaking to someone, and I think this is such a powerful point, that's why I'm kind of taking some time on it.

Speaker 6 If you were, someone's listening to this and there's, and there's a wide range of individuals who listen to this show, I'd say 70% to 65 to 70% of the people that listen are in the insurance industry because that's the foundation of where I came from.

Speaker 6 And then there's a whole group of other people that have come in and just are interested in the entrepreneurial stories and peak performance and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 6 If someone's listening to this and they're going, you know, I just man, I just can't slow down.

Speaker 6 I just feel like if I slow down, I'm not gonna, you know, what would be your pitch for the stillness, for the that taking that time?

Speaker 6 What's your pitch then, being someone who has done it and it's been very successful with it?

Speaker 5 Yeah, what I like to do is go on like a retreat, right? So this could be done in a mastermind setting,

Speaker 5 but I would say, you know,

Speaker 5 I'd recommend going on a solo trip. Solo trip in nature.
In nature, you're going to be able to find stillness

Speaker 5 and you'll be able to calm your mind and you'll be able to really have time for self-reflection. And, you know, meditation

Speaker 5 is one of the most powerful tools as we have as entrepreneurs. It's like if I have a tool bag, like I've got biohacking stuff, I've got meditation and I've got skills building and learning.

Speaker 5 And learning is a non-stop process. But when it comes to self-development,

Speaker 5 people lack the intention and understanding there's huge benefits that might not be monetary, but it's having peace, it's having purpose.

Speaker 5 And these are the things that's going to allow you to stay more focused.

Speaker 5 So it's like spending five days out in nature once a year for that time to reflect is going to be the most powerful powerful advice that I could give you is to disconnect from, you know, whatever life you have and spend time alone and create that space for yourself.

Speaker 5 Because, you know, having partner, girlfriend, wife, and kids, like, like you have to get out of that routine because it's going to be like rinse and repeat Monday through Friday.

Speaker 5 Here's my weekend, blah, blah, blah. So that's my advice for that.

Speaker 6 It's a pattern interrupt, essentially.

Speaker 5 Yes. Yeah.
Exactly. So there's a great quote.
One of my favorite quotes is

Speaker 5 when old patterns are broken, new worlds emerge.

Speaker 5 And I love this quote because it's like, if you want to change your life, it's like, you need to change a few things.

Speaker 5 You need to change your patterns, your habits, which is your habits and your rituals and your beliefs.

Speaker 5 what are your values and your beliefs and your habits and your rituals because if i audit your habits and rituals and your your belief system, I can promise you that's going to equate to how your current reality is manifesting for you.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I completely agree.

Speaker 6 Terry,

Speaker 6 I want to be cognizant of your time and of the audiences. This has been an incredible conversation.

Speaker 6 If someone's listening to this and they are interested, Obviously, you have the book. We can get it.
I'll have it linked up in the show notes for everybody. You can get it on Amazon.

Speaker 6 I'm sure wherever books are sold.

Speaker 6 You can find the brand on IG. Where's the best place for people to connect with you, follow you, get into your world?

Speaker 6 You've shared, you know, I'm sure what is the tip of the iceberg of what you know, but some really incredible things. And I want people to be able to connect with you further.

Speaker 5 Yeah, so if you want to connect with me, you know, I talk all about like, I use IG primarily, so Project Kim, you can follow me there.

Speaker 5 And I talk anything from biohacking, breath work, meditation, spirituality to start startups, fundraising, and business. So you can follow me there.

Speaker 5 And you could also just sign up for my newsletter on projectkim.com.

Speaker 6 That's tremendous, tremendous. Dude, I appreciate you.

Speaker 6 I love what you're doing. I love the fact that you're bringing education to people in a way that they can afford because to me, you know, this is as a kid that didn't grow up with a lot.

Speaker 6 or with basically nothing, I got, I feel like I hit the jackpot that I had enough athletic ability to get a scholarship.

Speaker 6 But I think back on the fact that if I did, if that didn't happen for me, I would have never gone to college. It would not have happened.

Speaker 6 And my life would have been way different. And the access to education that can amplify our lives and the way that you're doing it with NGT is incredible to me.

Speaker 6 I'm so happy you've had a chance to connect. Hopefully it will not be the last.
Dude, I wish you nothing but the best.

Speaker 5 Yes. Thank you for having me on the show.
And for your viewers, if you go to zerotoengineer.com forward slash book, you can get this book for free. You just have to pay for shipping.

Speaker 6 Ah, so tremendous. We'll have that linked up too.
That's awesome. I'm glad you said that.
I'm glad you said that. That's tremendous.
We'll have all of it linked up, guys, or just go directly there.

Speaker 6 Either way,

Speaker 6 highly recommend it. And I appreciate you, bud.

Speaker 5 All right. Appreciate you, right?

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