RHS 194 - MM: Navigating Personal Growth and Emotional Leadership Challenges

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Speaker 10 Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the show. Today, we have a tremendous episode for you of the Monday Mindset.

Speaker 10 This is actually a talk that I gave a little over a month ago at the University of Albany's MBA Alumni Program. They had an alumni program.
There's about 75 people there.

Speaker 10 It was at a really nice place in downtown Albany. And if you want to see the talk, you can head over to YouTube and watch it.

Speaker 10 But for those who just enjoy the audio, I'm going to have that included. And when I was asked to do this presentation,

Speaker 10 really the topic was community and why community was important as they try to grow their alumni community. And the tack that I wanted to take with this was

Speaker 10 really

Speaker 10 the emotional struggle that is leadership and any type of leadership, regardless if it's business, leadership of our family, of a community community organization, etc.

Speaker 10 When we take on a leadership position,

Speaker 10 we oftentimes don't know what we're getting into when we do it for the first time.

Speaker 10 And it could take several iterations of being in different leadership positions to really truly get a feel for how to navigate all the various challenges that come up. But the tactics can be learned.

Speaker 10 You can read books, talk to mentors, et cetera.

Speaker 10 What I've found the most difficult,

Speaker 10 and

Speaker 10 where I've found the most blind spots or obstacles or corners that I couldn't see around was in the emotional side, the internal struggle that you go through as a leader as you try to work through these things, right?

Speaker 10 People look to you for answers and the buck stops with you. Now, crappy leaders will push off and blame, et cetera.
But those individuals are cut out of the herd fairly quickly.

Speaker 10 If you want to be a true

Speaker 10 leader of a company, someone who drives that company forward and grows that company,

Speaker 10 you're going to have a lot of crap dumped on you. And

Speaker 10 we oftentimes don't have enough discussions around how to handle that struggle and the toil that comes with it and all the emotions and feelings that we must deal with.

Speaker 10 That's a large part of what I do, what I talk about and what I've seen and the work that I've done, you know, outside of my day-to-day work at Rogue Risk, being a leader, the CEO and founder of Rogue Risk, and trying to help drive, you know, to a certain capacity in my leadership role with SIA.

Speaker 10 You know, I've tried to share the lessons, the beats, the wins, the insights that I developed through that work with you guys, both here on the podcast.

Speaker 10 And if you follow along on Instagram, I put a lot of stuff out on Instagram just because I found it to be a very convenient way of sharing small ideas and communicating with you guys.

Speaker 10 So if we're not connected there, head over to Instagram. It's Ryan underscore Hanley, or just search my name, you'll probably find me.

Speaker 10 I think you're going to enjoy this. It's 18 minutes long, so it's short.

Speaker 10 Would love your comments.

Speaker 10 Would love your thoughts on this topic because if you have resources, if you have best practices, if you have strategies, if you have experiences, I would love for you to share that.

Speaker 10 You can,

Speaker 10 if you want, you can find one of these posts on social media.

Speaker 10 Best place to probably collect comments on this would be the YouTube channel.

Speaker 10 So if you go to youtube.com slash Ryan M, M is in Michael Hanley, or just search my name, you'll probably find the show, and leave a comment on the video.

Speaker 10 That way we can collect the comments and maybe address them on future episodes.

Speaker 10 This is such an important topic that I would love your feedback. So guys, if you're not subscribed to the YouTube channel, do that.

Speaker 10 If you enjoy the Monday mindset, if you enjoy these kind of heady topics and diving into these things, things,

Speaker 10 would love for you. And you're not already, subscribe to the show, share the show.
That's how we continue to grow the audience, continue to build and share these ideas with more people.

Speaker 10 But I love you for listening to the show. I hope that if you are in a leadership position, you are thinking through some of these things.

Speaker 10 And if you do need help, if you do hit a point in your career as a leader, regardless of what level that is, or

Speaker 10 reach out to someone, reach out to me if you want, reach out to someone you know.

Speaker 10 and as the video will share find a community engage with them and continue to build on your own success you're not going to be able to do it alone I promise you that so let's

Speaker 10 let's get on to the Monday mindset here we go

Speaker 5 I see something completely off the wall call me on it that's what makes this more interesting for me that being said

Speaker 5 When Don asked me to come and present, I looked at the past speakers and heads of major corporations in the area, incredibly well-established and thoughtful individuals, and I've been fired through the last four jobs that I've had.

Speaker 5 I don't have an MBA. I feel like I've gotten one through the School of Hard Knocks.
Maybe if I had gotten an MBA, I wouldn't have been fired so often. Or maybe just I'm a terrible person to work with.

Speaker 5 I'm not really sure.

Speaker 5 So when I sat down with them and started talking about what this was and how I could potentially add some value to you guys,

Speaker 5 He said he wanted the conversation to focus on community and I think it was a wonderful topic.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 what I asked him, if it would be okay with his permission, was to talk through why I think community is so important

Speaker 5 through

Speaker 5 something that I think is often not talked about when we are in leadership positions or we own businesses.

Speaker 5 And it is the emotional struggle internally that you deal with every single day when you have to lead people, when you have to make decisions, when you're putting $40,000 on your credit card and hoping that you make enough that month to pay it off before the bank comes and takes your business, right?

Speaker 5 When you clear out everything you have,

Speaker 5 and seven days after you launch, COVID hits and the entire state's shut down, and you have absolutely no idea what to do, and you don't sell your first product for eight months.

Speaker 5 As leaders, as managers, as entrepreneurs, as business owners, as people who care about what we feel,

Speaker 5 we don't talk enough about what goes on in here.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 the journey that my career has had, I'm going to share some highlights with you. And what I hope you take away from this is that, one, when you have these feelings, you are not alone.

Speaker 5 You will feel alone. Many of you are probably experiencing them right now, right? Something in your business,

Speaker 5 an employee decided to lose their mind, right? Which they all do, as much as I don't understand why that happens, they just lose their minds. A vendor just cancels a contract.

Speaker 5 A program that you invested in doesn't deliver the revenue results that you expected or projected. A board member or an investor comes to you with a tough question that you have an answer for.

Speaker 5 These things create emotional turmoil inside of us.

Speaker 5 And we don't talk about it enough as a business community. We gloss over this piece.
We talk about sales and marketing and strategy. Talk about

Speaker 5 culture and people now. It's not HR anymore.
I actually offended my HR person because I referred to it as personnel the other day, and she was aghast.

Speaker 5 Yes. And I saw the look on her face, and I was like,

Speaker 5 I did not mean this, I'm sorry. I was like, I'm sorry.

Speaker 5 Yeah, it's talent. I said, all the words.
Just tell me the words. I'll use those from now on.
I don't know.

Speaker 5 We talk about these functions, these verticals inside of our business.

Speaker 5 And what we, I don't know if it's our ego, if we're uncomfortable, it's probably with that, if it's our own insecurities that we don't have these solutions, we feel oftentimes because we're at the top of a chart that somehow we're supposed to have all the answers.

Speaker 5 And people look to us as if we do, and we know that we're completely full of it.

Speaker 5 I told God I won the first time.

Speaker 5 What community does, and there's many different circles of the community, many different rings is the way I think about it. Our family unit is a community.

Speaker 5 Our extended family, as much as we dislike most of them, is also a little mini community. We have our neighborhood.
We have our larger community.

Speaker 5 We might have a sports team that our kids play on or a function that our kids play. That's a little mini community, right? Maybe we're in a bowling league or we like to play golf.

Speaker 5 That's a little mini community. We have our college and the network that we developed from there wherever we went to school.
Maybe you're part of a professional organization.

Speaker 5 Maybe you're a hobbyist of some sort. And

Speaker 5 too often we do not leverage these communities for what they're really there for.

Speaker 5 It's to complain about all the terrible things that are happening and the feelings that are happening associated with those things.

Speaker 5 Because I can tell you, almost every day, being the leader of a company that writes commercial insurance in 50 states, I have 21 people. We had seven at this time last year.

Speaker 5 Growing like crazy. I've had to fire seven people this year despite hiring a net.
Can you even do that math real quick? 21 minus 7. 14.

Speaker 5 I was a math major, but I definitely have a 3.5, so I would not be allowed to do that in that program.

Speaker 5 So we netted 14, but had to fire seven for culture reasons.

Speaker 5 I don't care what book you read on culture. There is no way to manage culture anything other than by white-knuckling it the entire entire time, doing the absolute best you can.

Speaker 5 Now, I know distracted, some of you are probably consultants with me, you're going, no, Ryan, there is an absolute way to do this.

Speaker 5 And I can tell you that no matter how good the program is, if it's six Sigma certified, or there's been 10 books written on it, how many reviews those books have,

Speaker 5 when the rubber meets the road and people look to you and you have no idea what the right thing to do is,

Speaker 5 you turn inside and you start to question your own abilities. And for me, what that has looked like in the past is

Speaker 5 maybe having a few too many cocktails, a few too often. I think it's the end of the night, it's 8 o'clock, brain won't shut down.

Speaker 5 So we have a few drinks, or maybe it's some sort of drug, or we watch too much TV.

Speaker 5 Pot is legal in New York. We feel like that's supposed to narrow our brain.
It doesn't. It curves our creativity.
Not that I'm against it.

Speaker 5 It's legal now, I can say that.

Speaker 5 But we turn to these crutches because we feel alone when really the absolute best way to get past these terrible things are to talk about them in groups like this.

Speaker 5 When I see this,

Speaker 5 I'm envious of what you have. I screwed around a lot in college.
I went to college to be a mechanical engineer. I went to the University of Rochester.
I grew up way out in Renzer County, and

Speaker 5 I never wanted to go back to that town again as soon as I got out of there.

Speaker 5 900 people used to say that we didn't have to lock our doors because the criminals lived there, they didn't steal from there.

Speaker 5 So I never wanted to go back. And the only way that I could see to get out of that world

Speaker 5 was to go to college. And I was decent at math and science, a mechanical engineer, whatever.

Speaker 5 And I also, I wanted to play baseball. University of Rochester, where I went.
And I got a semester, a year and a half in, I had a 1.2 GPA, and things were not going real well for Ryan.

Speaker 5 What no one tells you in any admissions is if you're going to be a mechanical engineer, you have to make a choice between playing baseball, drinking foods, and chasing women, or whoever you're attracted to,

Speaker 5 or being a mechanical engineer. You can't do both those things.
And I had obviously made my decision and

Speaker 5 it was a snap in the face. For someone who thought that...
thought of themselves as intelligent, hardworking, and ambitious, and thoughtful,

Speaker 5 I was making a lot of bad decisions because I was unwilling to talk about what was going on and struggles I was having and how thermodynamics made absolutely no sense to me at all, despite the fact that I understood that it was English, but beyond that, putting the pieces together and making them fit on a test that got me a grade that was passing, I couldn't figure it out.

Speaker 5 And it was the first time in my life that I'd ever come up against a challenge like that. And I had no idea what to do other than to become much, much more degenerate.

Speaker 5 Because that was the only thing I was good at. I wasn't good at thermodynamics.

Speaker 5 And I had no idea how to, I had no idea how to communicate these feelings.

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Speaker 10 I love you for listening to this show, and I hope you enjoy it. listening as much as I do creating the show for you.
All right, I'm out of here. Peace.
Let's get back to the episode.

Speaker 5 Fast forward, 2014. I put in about eight years in a local independent insurance agency, the Murray Group.

Speaker 5 My ex-wife and her family run that agency. It's a tremendous agency.
If you need home and auto insurance, it's a great place to go. Don't come to me for that.

Speaker 5 I put in eight years there, and I got a job offer to be the CMO of a national insurance technology company.

Speaker 5 And I thought this was one of the, this was like, what an honor to be asked to do this thing, to be part of this company, to make this great leap from being an insurance advisor to a CMO.

Speaker 5 I didn't even really know what that meant and the responsibilities were, but I knew when you had three capital letters in your job title, you were doing something right. That's what I knew.

Speaker 5 So I took that job, and the first day that I showed up,

Speaker 5 the CEO called all the executive leadership team into

Speaker 5 this conference room. And this is the very first day that I was there.
And I don't even know half the people that I'm in the room with. There's about seven of us.
There's 47 people in the company.

Speaker 5 And he says, guys and gals, we need to cut 17 people this week.

Speaker 5 17 people.

Speaker 5 I hadn't even met my team yet.

Speaker 5 The next week, I would look four people I had never met in the face and tell them that they no longer had a job here.

Speaker 5 One of the women immediately collapsed and started crying on the table. She was devastated.
Right in this, she was blindsided.

Speaker 5 I didn't know what to do. I had no idea what to do.
I pulled out my phone and I started playing textures.

Speaker 5 I didn't actually do that.

Speaker 5 No, I had no idea what to do, right? So now I start crying.

Speaker 4 I'm crying.

Speaker 5 I'm firing this person and crying at the same time because she's crying and I don't know what to do.

Speaker 5 And the woman in people, talent, and culture, she starts crying while she's also giving me the look of death because I don't think we're supposed to cry when we fire people.

Speaker 5 And I don't even know this woman's name really. Today I couldn't even tell you.
I met her for 25 minutes while I told her she no longer worked here and then we cried together.

Speaker 5 And then how do you go home and what do you do with that? How do you handle that stress?

Speaker 5 I didn't know how to handle it, so I started drinking.

Speaker 5 I needed my brain to shut down. I needed it to calm down.
I needed to not have all these thoughts ricocheting off inside of my head telling me, did you do it wrong? Maybe she could have stayed.

Speaker 5 She seemed to really care. Maybe she was a good employee.
I had never seen her work. I had no idea.
I was told to do something by someone who had literally just hired me.

Speaker 5 I thought I was doing the right thing. And I made this poor woman cry, which absolutely devastated.
To me, this day, even thinking about it makes me a little emotional. I hated it.

Speaker 5 I don't even know who she is. It was awful.

Speaker 5 I didn't talk about it. I didn't bring it to anyone and say, how do you deal with this? How do you talk about these things?

Speaker 5 I had no clue.

Speaker 5 Four years later, I was

Speaker 5 CMO of that company. We've done tremendous things, amazing things, things that I thought were revolutionary in the insurance industry.

Speaker 5 We'd built an entire media platform to go along with our product, and it brought customers that we had never thought possible. We had put on events, 300, 800 people.

Speaker 5 We had built this national brand inside the insurance industry that I was incredibly proud of.

Speaker 5 And I got fired three days after I put on the second largest insurance conference in history of the industry. Fired on the spot.
Here's your hat, don't come back.

Speaker 5 I had no idea how to process that. None.

Speaker 5 I had given everything I had.

Speaker 5 All the slacking off, all

Speaker 5 the broke culture, degenerate nonsense I had done earlier in my life, I had changed that.

Speaker 5 I thought I had fixed myself. I thought I had become this ambitious, hard-working, put-together, maybe a bit of a workaholic, but that's okay.

Speaker 5 I thought I had given everything I had, and

Speaker 5 they didn't like a comment I had made in the Slack channel.

Speaker 5 Didn't come to me and say, now granted,

Speaker 5 it wasn't the nicest comment I had ever made in my life.

Speaker 5 But at that time, I thought I had deserved more than that. I thought that I deserved someone to come to me and say, you know what, this wasn't really your best effort.

Speaker 5 Maybe we could, let's slap your hand, let's have a kumbaya, apologize to some people, and let's get back to work. Nope.
I was gone.

Speaker 5 And this thing that had become my identity, my life, it was who I was. I was, at that time, I was Brian Hanley, president of ABC Nation.
That was my life. That was my identity.
That was who I was.

Speaker 5 I traveled 50 times a year. I left my family.

Speaker 5 I have two young sons. I left them week after week and dedicated myself to this business.
I managed a 32-person team. I had 32 people underneath me.

Speaker 5 We had done more sales, brought in more business every year, consistently, going with targets, and for one,

Speaker 5 it wasn't a pro. Basically, the CEO was an idiot, and he kept complaining about something, And I literally said, get the out of my way.
I'll just fix this problem. That's what I said.

Speaker 5 I didn't think it was worth being fired.

Speaker 5 I also thought you laughed at myself, but you didn't.

Speaker 5 But that is what I said. And that means I was clear.
Did I do the right thing? No. Was I maybe a little too aggressive? Did I let my ego maybe get a little out of control? Sure.

Speaker 5 But I thought I deserved more that I had absolutely no idea how to handle it and I spiraled into myself again.

Speaker 5 I started staying up late, watching TV, started doing things that just

Speaker 5 slapping off, not being productive, getting back into drinking and stuff like that, right?

Speaker 5 I have no problem with drinking.

Speaker 5 My hope for you is that we're all going to have these days. We're all going to have these moments in our life.
And these continue to happen.

Speaker 5 The point is, when you put yourself out there 100%, I know many of you, some of you are nodding, I think you probably feel some of this or experience it or have someone who care about it who experiences things when you give 110% you're gonna get wrecked

Speaker 5 that's the trade you make

Speaker 5 and my hope for you is that you don't make the same mistake that I do the mistake was not getting out over my skis and pushing as hard as I can and demanding that people follow along at that level of effort my mistake wasn't trying to be the best that I could trying to get the most out of my team defending them right my mistakes were ambitious sure that I rubbed some people the wrong way fine that's who I am you can either like it or not like it I will never be I will never be upset for who I am in the way that I operate

Speaker 5 however I regret allowing myself by not engaging by not sitting down with people right I go to counseling every other week now not because

Speaker 5 partially because I've probably other reasons but I it just talking just having someone that I know is there for me right I now have I now I have a group of local guys business people and every other Friday we meet at a diner and we just talk and sometimes we talk about sports for an hour and sometimes it's we talk about spouses sometimes we talk about business sometimes we talk about how to deal with some of the but

Speaker 5 we just talk and

Speaker 5 we just get it out of your system and man you walk away from that meeting some days and you're like geez gotten good i'm all right i'm gonna be fine and i was frustrated i was upset when i came in here and

Speaker 5 I do not understand why people take sales positions and then get upset when you hold them accountable to sales. That mentality is not under it.
I do not understand that.

Speaker 5 I don't know how to talk to those people. So it's things like that where you go in and then you go, hey man, don't get upset with her.
Here's, try this. Position it this way.
Maybe give her this goal.

Speaker 5 Or have you tried, did you have you send her to a training?

Speaker 5 I hadn't done that. I didn't think.

Speaker 5 And now I had a solution instead of spiraling. Instead of going into a dark place that made me negative, that wasted life, that wasted energy.
I now had a solution. And I walked out feeling good and

Speaker 5 I felt like

Speaker 5 I didn't have to go into that place. It didn't have to become the worst version of myself because I was able to talk about it and share it.

Speaker 5 So my pitch to you is that this feels like a pretty wonderful community to me. This feels like a special thing.
I've got to meet a few of you, a few of you I know from past lives.

Speaker 5 I know Don pretty well. This feels like a very special thing to me.
And my hope for you is that you embrace it, not just the education. The education is great, the paper is great, right?

Speaker 5 That's wonderful, that's going to open doors. But you're going to have really shitty days,

Speaker 5 really. People are going to look at you like you're supposed to have the answer, and you're going to be sitting in your chair going, I have no clue what to do.

Speaker 5 And your heart's going to race, and you're going to tense up, and your mind's going to go nuts, and all you're going to want to do is bury your face in a bowl of ice cream with crappy TV, right?

Speaker 5 And waste away the night, or waste away the day. And instead, my ask, the mistake I would like you to step past or avoid that I made

Speaker 5 is to call somebody here. Just call somebody.

Speaker 5 They're seemingly all, you all seem like pretty nice people, right? Or find another community. Find a community.

Speaker 5 And just say, hey, how would you handle this? I'm struggling with this one. I'm really struggling.
I don't know how to do this. I'm worried I'm going to make a bad decision.
I'm worried

Speaker 5 I'm going to take this employee that I really like and I'm going to offend her or him or

Speaker 5 I'm going to disenfranchise her from this business or him or whatever.

Speaker 5 I'm worried I'm going to do something that I don't want to do because I don't know how to do this thing.

Speaker 5 And that friend is going to, you know what they're going to do?

Speaker 5 If they're really there, they're going to help you with a solution. What they're really going to do is they're just going to listen to you.
And you're going to get to bitch.

Speaker 5 And when we get a good bitch out, man, we feel better, right?

Speaker 5 Find a community of people who are willing to let you vent on them. And I promise, this leadership, management, entrepreneur, whatever you classify yourself as, this thing is a whole lot easier.

Speaker 5 It's been my absolute pleasure to talk to you today. I wish you nothing but the best.
Thank you for listening to this nonsense for however long it was.

Speaker 5 And I hope to meet all of you here the remainder of the program. Thank you so much.

Speaker 5 Thank you so much, Aaron.

Speaker 5 It's interesting.

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