RHS 175 - Izik Lavy on How Property Data is Changing Property Insurance

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Speaker 4 In a crude laboratory in the basement of his home.

Speaker 5 Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the show.

Speaker 5 Today, we have a tremendous episode with you with Isaac Lee, founder and CEO of GeoX Analytics, where we're talking about what is possible when we can infuse real-time

Speaker 5 geo-based data and analytics into the insurance experience, what is possible on the other side,

Speaker 5 why you may never have to do an in-person

Speaker 5 like physical review of a building again, why that day is coming, why we never have to drive by and take pictures or do walk arounds because satellite imagery,

Speaker 5 video imagery has become so good that it just may not be necessary. It certainly may never be necessary for the quoting process again, but you're going to learn all that during the show.

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Speaker 4 I'm going to shampoo.

Speaker 4 So, yeah, we can get right into it. I like to kind of start hot and start fresh and not waste all our flavor

Speaker 4 before we hit record or whatever. So,

Speaker 4 you know, I appreciate you coming on the show. I think, you know, I took a look through what you guys were doing.
It seems ridiculously interesting.

Speaker 4 I have a ton of questions, but I'd like to start kind of at the part that

Speaker 4 people find oftentimes the most interesting: is like, what's your origin story, man? Like, where did you guys come from? Where did you come from? And where did the company come from?

Speaker 4 And you don't have to do every detail, but what you think is pertinent, and then we'll dig in.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I think our background is coming from the tangent scope. We was like searching, it was responsible to provide operative information from very critical decision making.

Speaker 6 So, typically, like

Speaker 6 the need is coming from many industries,

Speaker 6 not only the insurance carrier, but I think that eventually insurance carrier is suffering the most. And this is exactly where we are coming to the story and say,

Speaker 6 okay, we want to help the insurance carrier to give better insurance and also to understand better the risk and also to notify the owner what is the risk that they have.

Speaker 6 Because eventually we see that insurance carrier, they are like a channel to the owner and if we want to reduce uh if we want to help to the owners of the property the best way is to get through the insurance carrier and i think this is exactly what we are trying to do it and this is what we um what we feel they are insurance carrier eventually they paying the bills most of the time

Speaker 6 and this is exactly where we are say okay If you're looking at the numbers, one minute, just to understand the point, because we are in the insurance space, so we need to discuss about the numbers.

Speaker 6 so in 2000 to 2010 insurance carrier lost only in united states only property 200 billion dollar

Speaker 6 and one century after this in 2010 to 2020 insurance carrier lost already 520 billion dollar

Speaker 6 so it's almost like you know it's increasing by 260 percent and you know like a century over century and according to all the analysts we're going to cross the one trillion dollar in losses only property on the United States.

Speaker 6 And it's causing us

Speaker 6 huge losses, you know, just to pay claims. And it's not giving any value to anyone.
I think this is where we are trying to get

Speaker 6 to the chain and starting to say, no, as an insurance carrier, you can predict the events and you can also

Speaker 6 help to your client, give them better service. notify them.
So for example, if you live in California and you have, let's say, many

Speaker 6 trees and many vegetation around your

Speaker 6 huge amount of vegetation around your property. So by insurance carriers say, okay, look, we see that you're not handling well with your vegetation, please cut the bushes, for example.

Speaker 6 Make action to protect your property. And eventually,

Speaker 6 when insurance carrier can give this comment to the owner of the property of a commercial property, for example, to make action to reduce the risk from storm, to reduce the risk from wildfire, to reduce the risk from health, and et cetera, to all the type of risk, even from flood.

Speaker 6 So eventually they will be able to

Speaker 6 save more properties and also to save lives as well. So I think this is like

Speaker 6 the main goal for us.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 this is why we... so look so looking and so like the insurance industry the influence is huge How did you, how did you get into this?

Speaker 4 Like, what was your spark to

Speaker 4 start the company? I mean, I completely agree with

Speaker 4 your premise on the business, 100%. I mean, understanding, you know, proper building valuations, proper building

Speaker 4 risk management, all those kind of things create drastic and significant and almost immediate improvements in both underwriting, losses, properly capturing enough premiums to pay claims, all those kinds of things, 100%.

Speaker 4 But like what, you know, I'm sure, you know, your boyhood dream wasn't to be a geographical building data analyst. You know, where how did you get to this point and what sparked you to

Speaker 4 create this company?

Speaker 6 So I think first I really like this industry of the geospatial pop tech information.

Speaker 6 This is where I first find this industry in the intelligence scope and I really love this.

Speaker 6 like what you can do with the data it's huge and I think this is where we are starting to to be in love in this industry and after this when I understand okay so what is the next step how we can create something valuable you know there are many many sectors and many industries that not provide value but you know as a as a as a young generation we're always looking okay how i can provide more value to um eventually to the world like if i will die tomorrow like, what is the value that I bring to the world?

Speaker 6 Like, I just, you know, breathing and sleeping, and et cetera. So, by looking on this direction, I said, okay, the biggest value that I can provide eventually is to do X, Y, Z.

Speaker 6 And as I said, like, to protect properties and to protect life eventually with property information. And this is eventually, okay, so what is the role to do this?

Speaker 6 So, we're also working with, for example, with the World Bank as well. Also, we worked in the past with FEMA Federal American Response of the the United States to make sure

Speaker 6 that so we not only do like direct insurance carrier, we're looking on another area to

Speaker 6 eventually

Speaker 6 to protect people's lives and people's properties and to make the life better for all of us.

Speaker 6 So, even from the small things to big things. So, I think this is

Speaker 6 what is good. And insurance industry, again, it's

Speaker 6 the wonderful industry to make a change because eventually they pay the bill for everyone after the natural disaster, after losses.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 that's tremendous. Thank you.
So when we, when I, you know, we're thinking about this property information, you have both residential and commercial buildings.

Speaker 4 And one of the things that seemingly separates you, and I'm interested in this, is the idea of this

Speaker 4 3D aerial imagery.

Speaker 4 What does that mean?

Speaker 4 How do you collect it? And

Speaker 4 why is that an improvement? Why is that an advantage?

Speaker 6 So I think when we're looking

Speaker 6 on the entire area, we need to create not only looking on the 3D environment, also like we need to look on 3D environment.

Speaker 6 And I think objectively, when you're looking on the 3D environment, you can receive much more insights. I can give you like from the smallest insights.

Speaker 6 they are water body and you know what is the distance between the property and the water body. But when you have the uh the 3d information like what is the height of the property

Speaker 6 and how many stories you have there and also the water body what is the height of the water body and what is the distance so it makes the entire picture differently so if the if the water body is very very um close to the property but actually like 10 meters less or you know 20 feet less uh so for you

Speaker 6 the insurance so the risk is very low and but if the water body is very high like even far away but very high and significant to you, significant water body.

Speaker 6 So, typically, you will understand better your flood risk. And

Speaker 6 from storm, for example, if you have a tree around your properties, so when you know that tree, okay, fine, like every area in California, every area almost like in Florida, you have trees around the properties.

Speaker 6 But if you know, for example, what is the height of the trees, so you know the trees is two times this property and it's very close. Or, for example, it's only one meter.

Speaker 6 This tree, it's very close to the property. So

Speaker 6 the entire risk is changed. And this is exactly what we will provide.
We can continue like with the slope of the roof, for example.

Speaker 6 And you have this information like today on the NATCAT modeling, like AIR, and it's feeding this information and it's missing from insurance carrier perspective.

Speaker 6 So where do we provide this information? Some of this already including and some of this is not included, but it gives you an entire different perspective on the environment. Yeah.

Speaker 6 And also by the reefs.

Speaker 4 That's a really interesting. That's a really interesting insight because, you know, I'll tell you, that's the battle.
So where I'm located is upstate New York, the Albany, New York area.

Speaker 4 So we, we actually, uh, people who aren't familiar with the geography, it's actually where the Mohawk River, which is, which runs west to east, and the Hudson River, which I think is the third largest

Speaker 4 river in the country, runs north to south. It's where they meet is basically this Albany.
There's another city, Troy, but it's where they meet. And

Speaker 4 it's a valley. So there's basically two mountain ranges.
And then the Hudson basically carved out this valley. So you'll have people that live,

Speaker 4 you know, a quarter mile or less from the Hudson River that are 400, 500 feet above the Hudson itself because of the slope, right? There's a...

Speaker 4 tiny amount of flat area and then it goes goes up the the basically albany and and troy are built on the sides of hills and ultimately uh not mountains probably more like hills but uh you know smaller ranges and but they're there's no there's no risk of the huds if the let's say if the hudson river floods those properties we have much larger problems as a society than than than that than that flood you know at those places and you would have battles with the insurance carriers around flood issues and water issues and i'd be like no i i get that this pin and this pin are too close for you if it were flat, but it's, you know, people can't see me, but, you know, there's a substantial difference.

Speaker 4 And you'd have to have this battle every time with them about that. And, you know,

Speaker 4 it just, you know, and what I'm hearing you saying is that at least in that one particular use case, this type of 3D imagery solves that problem.

Speaker 4 You can give them both the height and the distance and say, look. there's no chance that this property floods.
It's 350 feet above, even though it technically is within

Speaker 4 the horizontal distance that would be a flood. Is that accurate?

Speaker 6 Accurate. And actually, you've done my pitch.
So I think

Speaker 4 you can steal that story. You can say, I know this guy up in New York, and here's what, you know, you can steal away.

Speaker 4 So, so let's, so how do you, how do you, how do you get this imagery? Like, where, where do you get this from?

Speaker 6 So, typically, we have a couple aerial imagery data sources. We're not related on only one aerial imagery.
It's very important for us.

Speaker 6 So, today we we find like many insurance care that using some type of aerial imagery but eventually if they cover only 70 percent or even you know 74 percent of the entire book it's still it's not giving service to anyone so i think to be able to provide to anyone service and good service even if you're living in suburban in main or if you're living for example in montana or if you're living in new york eventually the insurance care needs to serve everyone.

Speaker 6 So I think for this, we have to work with many several, we're working with several air energy providers and also to provide the most recent aeroimetry to our client. So this is our first priority.

Speaker 6 And I think this is regarding the air imagery. So we use aircraft and also we're working

Speaker 6 outside of the United States and outside of the United States, in some places, you know,

Speaker 6 the insurance carrier that insure everywhere every

Speaker 6 in the entire globe, even in China, for example, you will find

Speaker 6 an American company that ensure that. So typically, we able to serve

Speaker 6 the insurance carrier everywhere. And this is one of our biggest advantages.
So, for example, in Australia, almost all the insurance carrier in Australia are using our data.

Speaker 6 For example, in Japan, we have

Speaker 6 huge insurance demand from this area as well. So, we're able to sell them as well.

Speaker 6 And also, of course, in the United States, and we're growing in footprint because eventually, like, We're thinking that we're living like in the United States and it's only our area, for example, New York or for example, California.

Speaker 6 We're living in one state, it's fine, but eventually everyone's suffering the same problem.

Speaker 6 And as we know, the insurance space, it's one global market. So if there are huge events in Florida, it will influence all the entire reinsurance world.
And reinsurance, if it will be

Speaker 6 influenced on the reinsurance, eventually it will influence all the insurance carriers around the globe. So even if I'm living in, for example, Miami,

Speaker 6 I will have this influence. And even if I'm living in New York, I will feel the influence of raising of the insurance carrier.
So raising of the premium.

Speaker 6 So I think that eventually everyone's suffering the same. We need to be able to help to all the insurance carrier 100% coverage.
And also the 3D information.

Speaker 6 So we have to leverage as much as possible data that we can.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I've actually seen one of those planes that's canvassing fly over our area before. It's kind of funny.

Speaker 4 You like see this plane like crisscrossing, crisscrossing, you know, kind of doing a glattice pattern across the area. And you're like,

Speaker 4 that plane is, what is that? You know, at first, you let them know what the hell they're doing.

Speaker 4 And then, you know, and probably most people don't even pay attention, but being a nerd, you know, we're all nerds in the insurance industry. You're like,

Speaker 4 I see, I get what they're doing. You know, they're, they're making this pattern that's a little too, you know, it's not just someone out for a ride.

Speaker 4 Like, it's, it's like a legit, I can watch them working back and forth. And it is pretty wild how that happens.
So, okay, so you, you have this imagery data.

Speaker 4 And then basically, what what what your company what your software you built does it's actually taking and and and and it's able to analyze these pictures i'm assuming is it is it video footage is it is it actual pictures that you're getting back is it both um like

Speaker 4 how are you able to decipher

Speaker 4 you know, from this, from this plane flying over, and I guess this is probably some of the magic that maybe people who don't understand how the technology works, maybe just give them some insights.

Speaker 4 This plane flies over over Albanyard, right? It goes making it, creates a video or a set of images, and they deliver it to you. How does that turn into you knowing height, distance,

Speaker 4 you know, the, the, all the way down to the shrubbery of the building and, and how different, you know, there's a little crick behind your house that could, that could overflow, but this, this one over here is not a problem.

Speaker 4 And we need to adjust. Like, how do you?

Speaker 4 And maybe I don't, without giving away the secret sauce, and I'll tell you, very few people who are listening to this podcast know ones and zeros.

Speaker 4 So even if you told them, they probably couldn't do it.

Speaker 4 But, you know,

Speaker 4 how does that actually work?

Speaker 4 How do you create that type of, how do you create the structure in the images? It's probably a way of asking that question.

Speaker 6 Yeah. So typically

Speaker 6 it's not a...

Speaker 6 too much secret sauce like we go by at high level because we don't want to be too much nerd you know uh so typically we're using uh we're leveraging ai machine learning models and the most uh the most sophisticated models on the industry and we also develop internally.

Speaker 6 So we have a couple of doctors and PhDs that are doing it. And also from another end, we also leverage an algorithm, the independent.

Speaker 6 We have several patterns around this algorithm that allowed us to be able to enrich our air models and also enrich our results.

Speaker 6 So in this key, we're able to also provide a 3D environment and not only the 2D environment. And as we're looking, it's very simple in regarding to the 3D information.

Speaker 6 So as you have the error imagery, so you typically have one imagery from one, that looking on the same building.

Speaker 6 Like imagine that you have two imagery on the sky from different directions, different angles, and both of them looking on the same building.

Speaker 6 So, typically, you create the triangulation between these two buildings and also the point on the ground. So, you're able to create this 3D environment.

Speaker 6 And the secret is how you create it in scale and how you create accurate results and better data, and et cetera, et cetera. So, this is typically what we are more focusing on.

Speaker 6 And yeah, I hope it was

Speaker 4 in. Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 4 I mean, basically, you're getting different pictures of the same structure, and then the algorithm is able to pinpoint the structure and kind of pull all those things together.

Speaker 4 And then, so you get all this raw data from the images itself. And then what

Speaker 4 one of the things that you guys are doing is then taking that and actually going a step further and saying, okay, so

Speaker 4 we have all this raw data pulled from this imagery.

Speaker 4 And now we're able to say, not just that a shrub exists, but that, you know, again, just using your example from before, that this shrubbery is actually creating a fire hazard situation because it's too close to a building, or this tree is overhanging a series of power lines that, you know, is in a wind zone that could easily be pulled down.

Speaker 4 And so that must have taken a lot of the effort. I'm assuming.

Speaker 4 that there's the first stage, which is the flat nerdiness of, okay, pull all this imagery, pull out the raw data. Now we have the raw data.

Speaker 4 Then there's actually the business piece of it, which is coming in and starting to execute that. Talk a little bit about like,

Speaker 4 how do you start to determine? Are there just straight regs that you're working off of? Is it you bringing in expertise from actual insurance carriers, risk management PhDs, et cetera?

Speaker 4 Actuaries

Speaker 4 that are getting involved. Like, is there a whole pool of people helping you determine what the actual insights are that you should be pulling out of that raw data?

Speaker 6 So typically,

Speaker 6 the most

Speaker 6 helping people, it's actually the carrier himself, carrier himself.

Speaker 6 So we connected to many carriers, today our clients, and we always looking for new demands of data and always be able to receive insights. Okay, this is interesting for us.

Speaker 6 Right now is a bushes and wildfire risk is more interesting for us or for example storms. And this is what we try to get.
We provide the data.

Speaker 6 taking the claim information as well and create and see if there are correlation between the models and the claim data.

Speaker 6 By this, we able also to learn the insurance carrier what is the ROI that you can get

Speaker 6 and what is the insights and correlation between the attributes and the claim information, like historical claim information. So we're able to compare it together and to see actual ROI.

Speaker 6 And after one year, they use it. So they say, okay, I able to reduce my risk in X amount by notifying the property owners, for example, with the most highest risk, or for example, by able to

Speaker 6 able to

Speaker 6 take

Speaker 6 the new sales, like the new quoting, and to offer better price for the new clients.

Speaker 6 So, and then a huge amount of analytics, how you can take this information and convert it to

Speaker 6 the profitable area. And this is, I think, what today Insurance Carrier focuses on.
So, absolutely. So, first,

Speaker 6 we're working very closely with the insurance carrier. Also, we have a great advisor.
He was a chief analytics officer at Chab and also in Green Reed.

Speaker 6 So we bring huge amount of information from the industry and we also use people in the industry to give us insights of what is the needs. And eventually I think that

Speaker 6 the biggest insights is to work directly with insurance care and receive always feedback against the claim information and what is the profit they see after one year, two years, and etc.

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Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 philosophically, do you see?

Speaker 4 So part of the

Speaker 4 200 billion to 520 to at some point in the future, a trillion in property losses just in the U.S., you know, and

Speaker 4 a decent portion of that is

Speaker 4 the social inflation of actual judgments, right?

Speaker 4 We unfortunately, and I live in one of those states that seemingly believes money grows on trees and is putting judgments out into the world that are, in my opinion, are bananas.

Speaker 4 Only people who don't actually spend money could actually create these judgments.

Speaker 4 But that's part of it. Part of it is just actual inflation.

Speaker 4 Do you see,

Speaker 4 to me,

Speaker 4 risk mitigation

Speaker 4 can have an impact, but I worry that mitigation,

Speaker 4 there's only so much you can mitigate, right? Like

Speaker 4 if you do all the right thing today, you do all the right things in the state of New York and one little one thing happens, you can still get absolutely obliterated with this ridiculous mega judgment.

Speaker 4 Do you see, yes, mitigation, but is it also a lot about just more like proper pricing, being able to reduce premiums? Because,

Speaker 4 you know, I mean, everyone who's listening to this, because

Speaker 4 primarily we're retail insurance, independent insurance carriers, vendors, technologists, and agents is the audience of this podcast. It's the independent side tends to listen to this show more.

Speaker 4 So,

Speaker 4 you know, I think most people are aware that oftentimes it was like, what's your zip code? What's the square footage of your house? Here's your price. You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 Like, that's how it was done.

Speaker 4 And what I see out of this and what excites me is to be able to say things like okay this house you know this house 1800 square feet this house 1800 square feet they could one could be you know could be one x premium and the other could be 4x premium and it's because of the actual factors impacting them even if they're on the same street right this one could be you know it could the street could be tilted there could be like you say some sort of water uh near this one this one could be higher with no trees in a wind zone and could have uh more issues from from hail damage or what have you.

Speaker 4 And it's like that type of pricing difference to me feels much more like

Speaker 4 to have as much or a larger impact than just mitigation, because now the carrier is going to be able to say, okay, we know a trillion in property losses is coming, but if we can price it properly, then everything will continue on as it should.

Speaker 4 Does that philosophically sound accurate or what do you think?

Speaker 6 I think

Speaker 6 it's for both ways. Like, first, like we know that all the independent insurance agencies, excuse me, like all the independent agencies that typically

Speaker 6 have the

Speaker 6 eventually they need to focus on sell. And every one of us know that every point of question,

Speaker 6 it can say, okay, why are you asking my personal information?

Speaker 6 For example, many, many clients like this. Why are you asking my personal question? I don't know if I can answer.
I don't know all the answer. For example, for many clients and et cetera, by and we

Speaker 6 think that insurance agents, especially independent ones, when they need to give better offering to their clients, they have to focus only on sale.

Speaker 6 So this is like what we always try to get to the point of insurance agents absolutely need to focus on sale. They don't need to ask questions.
They need to be

Speaker 6 the most polite and by able to just focusing, okay,

Speaker 6 how I close this deal.

Speaker 6 Not on like how I asking on his property information and how I feel this information and

Speaker 6 more focusing on how I close this call with done deal. So this is what the mindset that we want to create to

Speaker 6 insurance agents. how i pick my phone doing doing the phone call only focusing on sales and how i close in the same one phone call, how I close the entire deal.

Speaker 6 And this is what we want to convert the insurance agent from today to tomorrow. And I think this is

Speaker 6 by how we do it by providing information. And as an insurance carrier, when you provide this information, you're also able to understand eventually as the agent, okay,

Speaker 6 the policy will be very high because if you cut your brush, for example, I can update the insurance, I can update the carrier and get you better pricing, for example.

Speaker 6 So they can take an action to reduce the price to their clients eventually.

Speaker 6 So you can notify, and by this, for example, if this client, for example, will go by himself to the carrier directly, he will receive very high price.

Speaker 6 But if you, as an agent, already know this information and say, okay, you need to do X, Y, Z, and by this, I can give you like four times less price.

Speaker 6 So most of the time, you will do this, you will do this action because no one likely like by you by like if it's something cost $1,000 and you receive discount of if it's commercial property of five or ten

Speaker 6 thousand dollars, so it's much worth it for you.

Speaker 6 So I think this is where we see that insurance

Speaker 6 insurance agents, especially independent, can use this information. to create the benefits and to create advantage over the market.

Speaker 4 Yeah. You know, I, um, it's funny.
I was, I did did an interview with the ceo of plummet rock uh insurance um

Speaker 4 this was a while ago maybe four or five years ago it may have even been longer uh and they were uh testing um in the state of new york a new homeowners insurance product and what they were doing was taking third-party data such as what you're providing uh mashing it together and basically underwriting and pricing every home in the state of New York, whether they wrote it or not.

Speaker 4 And then basically what they waited for was one of their agents to come in, punch that address in, and then the price was basically waiting. Okay.
And it caused a bit of an uproar.

Speaker 4 People are like, oh, you got to talk to that.

Speaker 4 How can you frontline underwrite? You have to talk to the homeowner. And da da da.
And basically, this,

Speaker 4 I think he's still a CEO of Plinth Rock, Bill Martin, great guy, very smart. And I love this comment that he made, which was basically

Speaker 4 our position is that the accuracy of data of two or three well-done data sources is going to give us a much clearer picture on what the risk profile of that structure is than anything the insured or the insurance agent could possibly tell us not necessarily because they're doing anything nefarious, although that does happen.

Speaker 4 You know, anyone who's ever written a homeowner's policy has bent the truth at least a little to get something in, right?

Speaker 4 He's like, we believe that, you know, just human beings being human beings, beings, not always remembering exactly, you know, like, you know, you talk to people and you say, how many square foot is your home?

Speaker 4 And they'd be like, I don't know. And, you know, and, you know, we're sitting here and going, that's nuts.
How do you know how many square feet? But why would someone think about that? Right.

Speaker 4 They just don't, you know, they're like, it's 1,500 square feet, but really it's 1,900 square feet.

Speaker 4 And, you know, so basically he said, you know, these third-party data sources and the increasing accuracy of them.

Speaker 4 And if you can kind of uh cross-pollinate a couple with each other and verify, use them to kind of verify data off each other, you get a much clearer picture and a much more accurate risk profile than you could ever get um through just doing a simple survey with a homeowner and putting that in an application and then popping it into a portal and that to me felt right at the time and to this day still very much feels right not that you shouldn't ask insured questions but gathering the pertinence and the risk profile specifically about property seems to me like

Speaker 4 something we should not be relying on humans for. It should be something that we're gathering through real data, through imagery, through property records that are

Speaker 4 cross-referenced with each other.

Speaker 4 That feels much more like the future.

Speaker 4 And certainly, and not even the future, it feels much like what we should be doing today than just relying on how someone remembers their home to be.

Speaker 6 Yeah, absolutely agree.

Speaker 6 And I think that if you're looking on like which agencies working like not one E or two E, like I interview, like I had a huge amount of discussion with independent agencies and also dependent agencies, and you see that the differences between like agents that working 10 years already, five years, make great business for themselves.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 actually created for as a first job, you see that

Speaker 6 the different

Speaker 6 as they already told me, like, we need to provide accurate information to the insurance so they will know that I'm a best agent in this area so I know what I'm insuring and by this I receive also discount and the insurance carrier already know me so I create relationship with insurance carrier and I think this is like when we try to understand how as agent we we can create our future more clearly and also create more profit I think one of the biggest uh one of the biggest um um um things that we need to do the action that we need to do is understand better our client.

Speaker 6 And I think this is one of the things that we see more and more on the insurance agent. They investigate it, they know what they provide to the carrier, and they're doing homework.

Speaker 6 And eventually, we want to create the entire homework in one second because we want from them to focus on the sales and to close this deal.

Speaker 6 And this is exactly what we are looking to help to the insurance agency. So, yeah.

Speaker 4 So, very tactically,

Speaker 4 who uses the platform? I mean, carriers, is obvious, but do you have agents that are subscribing and using?

Speaker 4 And I guess explain the actual business to me and who your clients are.

Speaker 4 I mean, obviously, carriers make a lot of sense, and you've referenced them multiple times, but like, say, an agency, like I own an independent agency, we work primarily with commercial customers, and commercial property is a big part of our business.

Speaker 4 So I'm looking at what you're doing. And when we, you know, schedule time to talk, and you're going to be on the podcast, and I'm looking through it, I'm going, this is really interesting because

Speaker 4 as a national digital commercial property broker,

Speaker 4 we don't see in person any of the buildings that we insure, right? So, so what we do is we pull up a Google map. Well, that's just a flat image, which hopefully isn't blurry or terrible.
And,

Speaker 4 you know, hope that it was done in the last, you know, five years, I guess. And, you know, and that's really the best that we could get.

Speaker 6 So would, is, is your, you know, is, is, is this something that we would subscribe to and get that information and do do you guys have the ability to do things like calculate property value or am i just getting raw data and specs out of it or you know what would i be getting as a as a client um let's let's leave the insurance side i think that makes a lot of sense what an insurance carrier would get but let's say uh someone who's in that sales function um can they be clients is that a good a good client slash use case for you and um what is what are they actually getting if they if they were to subscribe so today we're working very closely with free agencies across the united states uh so it's very important for us eventually to open this uh entire market like entire ability capabilities to the agents because eventually for example even before even before the like when when you receive all this information to uh and what is the process that it cutting your time and spending your time and eventually giving you more information that you can extract by yourself and also as we discussed about Google, for example, it was not recent enough and not accurate enough, and etc.

Speaker 6 So typically what, like even before that, how you decide

Speaker 6 where to pick your phone call? Like you are very limited in time. You need to do the sales pitch.
And

Speaker 6 who is the right person to call? So typically by using our platform, we see that many insurance, many insurance agents can

Speaker 6 able to target their audience. So for example, I know I'm working with the hard for minimum commitment as agencies to hard for, for example, of, let's say, example, half a million dollars.

Speaker 6 Okay, I have to write premium of half a million dollars. I know that hard for, for example, looking for very specific one type of commercial properties, or for example,

Speaker 6 home insurance,

Speaker 6 for example, only home insurance with only a policy with a pool, for example. So, I able to select and with great

Speaker 6 condition. And because as the insurance agent, maybe I have another carrier that looking only for the riskiest property on the industry.
So I

Speaker 6 able to filter my

Speaker 6 target audience by using the platform. So this is the first reaction that we see very, very heavily that

Speaker 6 insurance agent looking for the next opportunity, the best opportunity for them, the next and the best one.

Speaker 6 And I think this is very important because eventually we are limited in time in our our life. And we need to be very focused to create big profit.
And this is exactly what we hear.

Speaker 6 And this is the first one. The second one is regarding to when you have a customer on your phone call.

Speaker 6 You just need to look for his address and you can cut the entire chain and try to sell as short a time as possible. So you don't need to wait and say, okay, I will call you in two weeks.

Speaker 6 And at the same time, he already closed with another agent, for example, or he already closed it. So

Speaker 6 you can make the entire sale cycle in one phone call. And this is eventually what we are trying to work with with the agencies.

Speaker 6 And we want for them, again, we want for them to be able to focusing only on how I close my next call and not how I call to the next client.

Speaker 6 I ask him the question, I investigated, receive the information, and after this, calling him back in two weeks. and try to close the deal.
So this is, I think, the eventually

Speaker 6 where we are trying to cut.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I like that. I like that.
You know, one of the things that we're very big at at our agency is, is instead of,

Speaker 4 you know, I try to, I butcher this quote all the time.

Speaker 4 And, you know, everyone listening will understand, but like, I try to, I try to operate this business like the, like the Bruce Lee quote of like, you know, be like water, right?

Speaker 4 Like what, you know, I don't come into the business with an ideology.

Speaker 4 I talk, I tend to, you know, find carriers that I really appreciate working with and people inside those carriers that I work with. And I say, what do you want to write?

Speaker 4 Send us out into the market to go find that thing. And that tends to be how we operate Rogue Risk is we don't necessarily have, I don't bring niches to carriers.

Speaker 4 I find out what our carrier partners want to write and I go after them. And what I'm hearing you say is what

Speaker 4 your company is able to do is you're able to say, okay, if property is something you want to write.

Speaker 4 then you can actually go to your carriers, find out what types of properties fit their appetite the best, and then target those properties in either your community or region and what have you.

Speaker 4 And now you have a very clear picture that

Speaker 4 this is going to be a property that they're going to want before you even do the reach out to the business owner or the property owner.

Speaker 4 You can set, you'll know before you make the call that you have the perfect market for it because you've already been able to set the parameters around it.

Speaker 4 That's an incredible competitive advantage. And I think that.
thinking, you know, oftentimes agents, particularly independent agents, get stuck in kind of the way business has always been done.

Speaker 4 And these types of methodologies and advantages are what are separating, I think, the new wave of independent agent, especially those that are willing to adopt at least some level of technology and new ways of thinking.

Speaker 4 This is why there's so many new types of agencies that are coming into the market and growing so fast, they're taking concepts like what you're describing and they're actually putting them into use.

Speaker 4 I think it's tremendous.

Speaker 6 Exactly. And eventually, as

Speaker 6 agencies, you know, you need to to reach your target eventually you have commitment to many carriers and you want to be able to classify yourself and to take all this commitment eventually if you got to the to the end of the year and you don't have your commitment so or you're missing some of the carriers so um they will not want to do the business with you next year so i think that by able to say okay i have this type of carrier that I work with them, as you said, exactly, like what is the appetite for him?

Speaker 6 What is the the appetite for him? What is appetite for him? Immediately to say, okay,

Speaker 6 I want to target everywhere in the United States for me, for example, or for example, from New York to Connecticut to crossing the to Costa, Massachusetts, uh, and even Maine.

Speaker 6 I can search everywhere my new opportunities. So it's not only related to one zip code or to one area, I can go to any one of them because I know what they want.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 And yeah, this is very that's amazing. I think it's amazing.
Isaac, this is, this has been a tremendous conversation. I want to be respectful of your time and our audience.

Speaker 4 And I appreciate you sharing what you guys are doing. And I think that

Speaker 4 companies like GOX and

Speaker 4 you guys are creating opportunities for, you know, one of the things that's beautiful about the insurance industry is it's very much a choose your own adventure.

Speaker 4 And what you guys are doing is presenting information and opportunities for agents who

Speaker 4 who love an aspect of the business, commercial property, or have a, who want to attack a portion of the business in this place? I keep saying commercial property or residential property

Speaker 4 in a way that wasn't possible even five, seven years ago. And I think it's absolutely tremendous.
If people want to connect with you and/or

Speaker 4 GOX, how do they do that? Where's the best place to get a hold of you, get a hold of the company, learn more?

Speaker 4 Where do you want to send them?

Speaker 6 Typically, you can find it on our website, like Geox Analytics, and find it very, very easily.

Speaker 6 This is one way. And also, you have

Speaker 6 connected information. So, feel free to reach out and we will make sure that someone supports you and help you to make your

Speaker 6 next deal and

Speaker 6 next test.

Speaker 4 It's absolutely amazing. Thank you so much, man.
I appreciate your time. I wish you nothing but the best and thank you for coming on the show.

Speaker 6 Thank you very much.

Speaker 6 Have a good one.

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