RHS 144 - Todd Thams on Delivering Max Value to Your Clients

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Speaker 8 Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the show.

Speaker 9 Today we have Todd Tams on the podcast for an absolutely tremendous conversation on

Speaker 9 all things independent insurance, talking about

Speaker 9 being a true value provider as an independent agent, what that means and how the technology company that Todd has launched, Mod Advisor, is changing the game for what independent insurance agents can do from an advisory role, from a value-added role beyond just advising and placement of insurance.

Speaker 9 But how do we become even more? How do we do more for our clients? And Mod Advisor is the tool that is helping independent agents take on this challenge of needing to add additional value.

Speaker 9 I mean, guys, there's going to come a day when simply selling an insurance policy just isn't enough. I mean, it's barely enough today.

Speaker 9 And tools like Mod Advisor are helping you be true value providers for your clients.

Speaker 9 Excited to have Todd on the show because, one, I just love Todd and love his mindset and the way he thinks about things.

Speaker 9 I also always enjoy, similar to a couple episodes when we talked to Zach Mefford, you can go back and listen to that one, when independent insurance agents become technologists.

Speaker 9 I feel like these types of projects are very interesting.

Speaker 9 Sometimes they're misguided, but sometimes, and particularly in the case of Zip Bonds for Zach Mefford and Mod Advisor for Todd Tams, are just tremendous projects that are so dialed into what independent insurance agents need, the way they work, the way they think.

Speaker 9 They're perfect fits for our ecosystem, and they're the exact type of tools that I love to share with you guys.

Speaker 9 Before we get there, want to give a quick shout out to today's sponsor, and that is Podium, P-O-D-I-U-M.com.

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Speaker 3 All right.

Speaker 9 With that, we're going to get on to Todd Tams.

Speaker 5 Dude.

Speaker 5 Dude, what's going on?

Speaker 10 Not too much, man. What's up?

Speaker 5 Just drove back from Des Moines today, had a couple meetings, hanging out with you. Nice.
You got lots of stuff going on, it looks like.

Speaker 10 Lots of stuff. Yeah.
Yeah. I just, uh, I also just got back from one of the longest haircuts of my life.

Speaker 10 Usually takes about 20 minutes to get my dew chopped. And

Speaker 10 my, my, this, the woman who normally cuts my hair, she's in Florida and I got a couple of things going on this weekend. So I, I was like, hey, I got to get freshened up.
Who do I go to?

Speaker 10 So she referred me to this guy and he was like, one of those old school barbers who just wants to literally cut every hair individually. And like, it's great.
He did a great job. Happy.

Speaker 10 He's super nice. We're rapping Yankees.
We're rapping, you know, whatever. It's all good.

Speaker 10 But I just, I'm like, my God, this is, this is like an endeavor like like i feel like i you know this is this is like a major commitment to come over here and get your haircut how long does it take to cut your hair it's like 12 minutes i mean my girl takes 20 minutes 25 i mean usually takes a half hour because we bullshit a lot i've known her for like my whole life and she's funny so like but it could easily be 15 20 minute stops this was a 47 minute haircut so i'm flying home going oh my god i'm now going to be late for our call because of this haircut.

Speaker 5 But I mean, I do look fresh though. So talk to me.

Speaker 5 I see Rogue Risk got acquired by SIA. Talk to me about that.

Speaker 10 Yeah.

Speaker 10 Just

Speaker 10 another step in the ladder to world domination.

Speaker 10 Long story short was

Speaker 10 I took a look at our growth curve and basically the math was it would be five to seven years.

Speaker 10 that range before we got to execute on what kind of the mission and the vision for this agency agency has been right um

Speaker 10 from a from a from a customer facing side it was the whole idea of a human optimized agency to to better serve our customer base and from an internal side it was this concept of no ceiling insurance career for the people that work here right like i don't want your last name to determine how far you can go in in a business in this business at least and those two kind of I think they run parallel to each other.

Speaker 10 Those two goals, one being external, one being internal, when I took a look at how long it would take to get them there on our own, it's five to seven years.

Speaker 10 And in my opinion, that window, I was worried the window of opportunity would close in that time period for us, for this opportunity that I think we have today.

Speaker 10 So that's why in September, August and September, I started taking VC meetings. And I did 57 total VC meetings and got a hard no from every single one.

Speaker 10 Mostly because we don't create proprietary software today. That was pretty much unilaterally the reason.
And I said, wait a minute, you should be happy that I'm not building proprietary software.

Speaker 10 I run on such a low budget relative to our peers in the digital space that allows me to hire people and implement our process incredibly, you know, much faster, which we can put back into marketing and branding and grow.

Speaker 10 They don't give a shit. All they cared about was if you're, if you're.
a service business, you're, you know, you're, it's X EBITDA, you know, whatever percentage.

Speaker 10 And if you're a tech business, it's X revenue, this, and that's all they cared about, which I get it. That's their business.
That's fine, but it was a hard no.

Speaker 10 So it's kind of going through that. And I bumped into Maciello at an Arizona event, Arizona SIA event, because he had just, he was kind of doing his tour.

Speaker 10 from his purchase of purchasing out his dad with the leadership team, the PE company to kind of re recalibrate SIA.

Speaker 10 So he was doing his rounds to talk about the new vision and direction and all that kind of stuff. And I was there doing a keynote that got bumped from 2020 when COVID hit.
And

Speaker 10 we started rapping and having a couple of beers and solving all the insurance industry's problems. And

Speaker 10 he, you know, explained that they had a gap in their ecosystem. And I said, what if you didn't have a gap? And he said, what do you mean? And I said, everything you just described is rogue.

Speaker 5 I mean, we're early.

Speaker 10 but like that's what we're doing

Speaker 10 so we had a few more conversations and seemed to make sense. And I got to know them a little bit.
I mean, this has been seven months in the making, really.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 got to know them, got a really good feel for them, got a feel for what I think they're trying to do, who they are, where we fit.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 figured I can get to where I want to be in five to seven months versus five to seven years. And that math just made too much sense.
So

Speaker 10 that was the deal.

Speaker 5 Well,

Speaker 5 very cool for you. Congrats.

Speaker 10 Yeah. Yeah.
I mean,

Speaker 10 I got to make good on all the bullshit I pitched them, but, but, but, yeah, you know, it's cool. It's,

Speaker 10 you know, I still own a part of Rogue.

Speaker 10 You know, I still, you know, so still, still, still very invested in the company. You know, this is not like they buy me and in two years I'm looking for a new job.

Speaker 10 At least, you know, that's not really the way I'm going into it, at least. You know, obviously life changes, but it's.

Speaker 5 I had a demo with one of, I don't know if he's one of your employees.

Speaker 10 Brendan Malacke.

Speaker 5 Let me see. When was I at

Speaker 5 the Better Agency Conference? Let's see.

Speaker 10 It's not the Better Agency Conference anymore. It's the Agency Success Conference.

Speaker 5 Scott Stevens.

Speaker 5 Scott.

Speaker 10 You had Scott Stevens from Rogue?

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 10 It wasn't at the Better Agency Conference, though. You guys did a Zoom call.

Speaker 5 We did a Zoom call.

Speaker 10 Yes. You might have been.
Yes. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. It was Scott.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 He liked, he liked it. It didn't go that well.
Oh, it did. Yeah.

Speaker 10 He said, he goes, I feel really bad. The first like 20 minutes, all my technology was broken.

Speaker 10 He's like, he's like, I think I looked, I didn't look that great on the call because I couldn't get anything to work.

Speaker 5 We finally got connected, though. Yeah.

Speaker 10 But no, he said, he, he, he said he really liked the tool and i think you know once we get we got a lot of like transition that we're going through and um

Speaker 10 you know i think we're i think we're we're gonna end up signing up with you guys for sure he they're they are

Speaker 10 you know

Speaker 10 him scott and will on my team they're workers comp middle market prospecting all day long and that's what they do so he goes i don't like to do computers i don't want to do this stuff can you do it for me and i said absolutely not yeah i said we we made it pretty easy.

Speaker 5 Let me show you how easy it is. And I think he finally got it by the end of the, yes, by the end of the call.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 All of that is true. He does, he does not love computers, but he is very good on the phone.

Speaker 5 That's all you need.

Speaker 10 Yes. So computers, eh,

Speaker 10 phone.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 10 Yeah. He's got, he's like,

Speaker 10 he's one of those guys who

Speaker 10 If you talk to him, you would not be impressed like from a sales perspective. Like you wouldn't be like, ah, this guy's a sales killer.
But he somehow, he has this ability.

Speaker 10 And I've listened to like his calls and I've been on calls with him. He has this ability to like make people feel very comfortable talking to him, like very quickly.

Speaker 10 Like, you know, he's got a military background. He's got some different stuff and he can kind of relate to a lot of people.

Speaker 10 And you just, all of a sudden, you're like, I just, people just start telling them everything. And, you know, that's a very unique and, you know, good skill for a salesperson.
So yeah, he's,

Speaker 10 he's an interesting cat.

Speaker 5 Very cool.

Speaker 10 Very cool. What's going on with you, man?

Speaker 10 I see Mod Advisor all over the place. I'm so happy for you.
It's awesome.

Speaker 5 Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 5 It's a fun ride. It's been a fun ride and continues to be a fun ride.

Speaker 10 Yeah. Broker Tech Ventures, right? Did I see that?

Speaker 5 Yep. How's that going?

Speaker 5 What's that? How's that going?

Speaker 10 How's it going for you?

Speaker 5 So we're

Speaker 5 two weeks out of Broker Tech Ventures right now.

Speaker 5 Made a lot of great connections there.

Speaker 5 And from what I understand, the way the format works for the two days we were there, I mean, it's back to back to back meetings, networking events, all this stuff.

Speaker 5 And then out of that, they each respective agency partner goes back to their organization, discusses who they want to work with.

Speaker 5 We're getting some emails coming through right now, but I think next week it'll be pretty much formal as to who wants to help partner and accelerate our growth.

Speaker 10 Yeah, that's great. I did, I did one of those things with Wisconsin, University of Wisconsin-Madison had a

Speaker 10 had a had an incubator event like that. And it was kind of sponsored or put on by American Family.
And I did the thing, did that whole thing. And

Speaker 5 no one wanted to work with us.

Speaker 10 They're like, we're sorry, but no one sponsored you.

Speaker 5 I was like, wah, wah, wah.

Speaker 5 The American Family, they're out and about. I want to say, so we just got back from the Global Insurance Symposium and they had a tech night.

Speaker 10 Oh, I bet there was 30 or 40 tech startups there and i remember talking i can't remember the woman's name but i remember talking to somebody from american family yeah who was just there checking out all the insure techs yeah yeah they got a i mean their operation is crazy and i was talking to somebody the other day who i think it might have even been for the podcast um that you know i think we as an industry forget because they're not as they're not ia focused particularly that, or at least not their main brand, that they're like the 300th largest company in the country, not just like insurance company but like they're like one of the top 500 companies in the whole country in terms of if you look at their total portfolio that they own and all the sub-brands and all the stuff that's underneath them they're enormous um and we all just kind of like pass them off as if they're not really a big deal or i think a lot of people do yeah i well you're telling me something i didn't know Oh,

Speaker 10 yeah. Well, I thought you'd know that being, you know, that's your part of the world, right? I mean,

Speaker 10 west of where I am. So, all you people know each other out there, don't you?

Speaker 5 Well, I mean, for I'm just not paying attention to size of companies, I guess, is what I'm saying. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But yeah, it's a small world. It's a very small world.

Speaker 10 So, what's got you excited, man? Like, what's what's what's going on? I mean, I know you're plowing through with all the stuff with Mod Advisor, which is awesome.

Speaker 10 It's great to see the brand getting out there more and more. And I want to learn more about Mod Advisor for the show.
I mean, I know you were on before, but

Speaker 10 just in general like what what's what's on your coconut what's exciting is it just is it just your head's down and you're you know you're not you know you're not seeing anything else or or is there anything that's got you kind of on fire a little bit uh i'm well i'm certainly fired up about mod advisor and all the fun things that we're going to be doing yeah um i mean the beginning of 2022 has been absolutely crazy uh peaking with getting selected into broker tech ventures um

Speaker 5 there's

Speaker 5 there's nowhere.

Speaker 5 If you spent the last two years calling the 30 largest insurance brokerages in the country and said, hey, I want to talk to you and pitch you an idea, you wouldn't get in the room with the people that were in the rooms at these meetings.

Speaker 5 And they're so committed to,

Speaker 5 I don't know, building on the technology, but really improving the experiences and the value adds that they have for their clients. And apparently we fit one of those molds.

Speaker 5 So a lot of great conversations that came out of that conference. I'm excited to see who we're going to work with in the future.
And And I think the direction that

Speaker 5 they want to see things is going to be, it's going to be huge and it's going to be very interesting. And I can't go into all of that right now.
Yeah, yeah. But

Speaker 5 where we're going to be at next year versus today is going to be,

Speaker 5 it's going to be amazing.

Speaker 10 How do you like being a tech founder?

Speaker 5 I love it. Really? I know that's a short answer to a long question.
I love building tech. I love the struggles.
I love taking,

Speaker 5 I guess if you look back over my life, I think I'm a builder. It's not necessarily a tech founder, but I'm a builder.
We build things. And I think you build things too.

Speaker 5 And, you know, my first job was in the restaurant industry.

Speaker 5 We built that up, won a bunch of awards, came back to our third generation family business, built that up, grew a book, and then started into what do I really like to do?

Speaker 5 And I really like work comp and how can I build upon that?

Speaker 5 I'm not so much interested in talking to, you know, having the day-to-day conversation about what med pay limits should I have on my auto insurance.

Speaker 5 It's like, let's talk about work comp, let's educate, let's help agents nationwide. And we've got users from the one person shop to, you know, the top 20 brokerages in the country right now.

Speaker 5 And they all want to improve on that experience and they want to help convey ways to reduce costs, ways to improve risk management.

Speaker 5 And I love, I love having those conversations because we're building something that actually is going to make a difference in people's lives. And that gets me excited every morning.

Speaker 10 Is there any part of it that you don't love?

Speaker 5 What do I not love?

Speaker 5 Lately, the travel schedule. Yeah.

Speaker 5 I mean, you've been there, done that, but there's a conference every single week you can go to, and you don't know which ones you should miss, which ones you shouldn't miss.

Speaker 5 We've got a couple more coming up, and then I'm intentionally taking the summer off because I think we just need to wrap our I need to wrap my head around our focus.

Speaker 5 I need to put some ideas on paper and get our roadmap for the next 12 to 24 months under wraps. Yeah.

Speaker 10 Is

Speaker 10 how does leading a tech company different differ from leading, say, an agency? Just, you know, for a lot of the people who listen to the show, you know, they've never started a tech company.

Speaker 10 They're only familiar with the agency business. Like, what are some of the maybe the nuances that

Speaker 10 maybe some are obvious, maybe some aren't?

Speaker 5 So if your question is, how does running our third generation family business TAMS agency differ from an InsurTech? The clientele and the expectations. I mean, we're located in rural Iowa.

Speaker 5 People walk in our door. They pick up the phone and call.

Speaker 5 They're not tech-savvy people. I mean, it's just good salt of the earth people.
They want to meet in person, meet face-to-face, and they want to walk in and have you solve their problems.

Speaker 5 On the tech side of things.

Speaker 5 People are completely okay just sending an email. You get back to them the next day.

Speaker 5 Doing things over Zoom. I mean, we cast a much larger footprint than than we do with our brick and mortar operation

Speaker 10 do you um

Speaker 10 do you see any

Speaker 10 advantages in the local face-to-face handshake that are lost in the in the digital or the virtual transaction or in the tech the tech transaction in general

Speaker 5 personally i'm a networker i love to meet people face-to-face it's you know you and i meet face-to-face we have a good time we talk in person it's great to talk to you on zoom but it's just not the same.

Speaker 10 Yes, it is not the same.

Speaker 5 No, yeah. So I love that.

Speaker 10 To this day, I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation that we had. What fuck? Now I'm going to forget what fucking conference it was.
Oh, it was the San Diego, San Diego

Speaker 10 IAOA conference. Remember, we had an awesome conversation in the, in the, in the bar that, uh, I don't even remember what the fuck we were talking about.

Speaker 10 I just remember walking away from it and being like, ah, that was a great conversation. I enjoyed that.

Speaker 10 I can't even remember what it was. I just remember, I have very fond memories of that in-person conversation.
It's funny how that works, you know.

Speaker 5 You know what? That was oh my gosh! So, that was 2019. Yep,

Speaker 5 and um, I don't know for I don't know about you, but I think that was kind of a turning point.

Speaker 5 I remember we had a dinner that night, or one of those nights that we were out there, and I think you know, that was the beginning.

Speaker 5 Carruthers was at the table, yeah, Mike McDonnell at the table, you were there, um, Cass.

Speaker 5 Yeah, who else was at the table?

Speaker 10 Uh, shoot.

Speaker 5 Um,

Speaker 10 now everyone who's listening to this that was at the table we're so we're sorry i know i'm trying to chris green was there cash

Speaker 5 i guess i remember because you sat across from me as i recall yeah

Speaker 5 and i sat next to mcdonough and that guy with what he knows in california for work comp was just amazing and that's how most of our conversation went that night but that was the beginning of david cruthers and killing commercial yeah that's the beginning of rogue risk that's the beginning of mod advisor and direct Comp.

Speaker 5 If you look back from 2019 to today, like it's pretty wild to think about the movement that's come out of that.

Speaker 10 That is, that is, that table launched a lot of stuff. And I remember the hard part was Carruthers was at one end and McDonough was at the other.

Speaker 10 And basically we were all there to meet and hang out with those two guys because we were all comp guys. I was launching Rogue on Comp.
Comp is our number one 50.

Speaker 10 two percent of our book of business is workers comp at rogue i mean i don't talk about it as much on the on this podcast but like we've never slowed down with our comp thing.

Speaker 10 So like, you know, we were all kind of there to hear what Carruthers had going on in McDonough. And they were both at one.

Speaker 10 So I remember everyone just kind of like their head snapping to one side and their head would snapping back to the other side. And

Speaker 10 it was, oh, that was kind of funny how that worked.

Speaker 5 That was probably one of the longest dinners I've ever had because normally we, you know, we go, we eat, we get up and we leave. Yeah.

Speaker 5 And I bet we're there for two and a half hours and it just went by in the blink of an eye. Yes.

Speaker 10 Yeah.

Speaker 10 It's almost like one of those things that you would want recorded, not to share, but just to like listen back to it.

Speaker 10 Cause it's like, there's no way to retain all the conversations that were happening. And they were all so valuable.
And everyone was being so open and upfront.

Speaker 10 And I remember leaving going, McDonough is a maniac, but one of the smartest MFers I've ever met, especially when it comes to this stuff. I mean, he was just the things he was saying.

Speaker 10 I was like, I didn't. You know, I mean, you and I are both guys who really enjoy insurance beyond just like the face value.

Speaker 10 And there was, there is, it's rare, at least rare that someone will talk about things or concepts I've never heard of.

Speaker 10 Maybe I don't necessarily understand or spend a lot of time with him, but like he was talking about relevant things that I had literally never even heard of before.

Speaker 10 And I was like, holy shit, this is crazy. Like he is, he's literally sharing a lifetime's worth of.
value and everyone was just trying to vacuum up as much as they could of it.

Speaker 10 That was, that was a lot of fun. That was a good dinner.

Speaker 5 I think it's rare. I mean, certainly there are workers' compensation experts all over this country.

Speaker 5 It's rare when you find somebody that has that knowledge, that's also vocal, and that's also just willing to share

Speaker 5 for free. Yeah.
And that's, you know, one of the rare things that you find in a Mike McDonough or a Crothers of what he does with killing commercial.

Speaker 5 Love those people. Absolutely love them.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 5 That was a great meeting.

Speaker 10 It was.

Speaker 10 It was.

Speaker 10 I enjoyed that entire conference. I got to meet a bunch of people for the first time.
I only knew digitally, had a lot of really great conversations.

Speaker 10 I enjoyed that, but I hadn't, to be honest with you, I had never really thought about how many now, you know, well, you know, now very relevant businesses were launched out come kind of right at that time.

Speaker 10 Like people were kind of gearing up and they kind of came out of that, that play. I didn't thought about that.
That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool.
And then it happens.

Speaker 5 And it's interesting. I credit my entire path to IAOA.

Speaker 5 I remember,

Speaker 5 you know, so we started building direct work comp in, I want to say 2017, 2018, something like that.

Speaker 5 And I went to, we had to go to the big I rural agents conference in Des Moines, Iowa.

Speaker 5 At the end of the day, there's, you know, all the rooms, everybody's having drinks and appetizers, and you stand around and you, you talk about what's going on in rural Iowa.

Speaker 5 And I left that hotel that night. The next day, I hopped on a plane and I went to my very first IOA, which I don't know if that was San Diego or Vegas.

Speaker 5 I don't remember. Yeah.
But I walked out there and I just was like blown away. And from out of that has created intentional action, network connections.
Certainly you.

Speaker 5 That's how I met the guys that run Zip Bonds. They're from Iowa.
And I just walked in their office one day. I said, hey, I'm Todd.
We're in the same group. Let's talk.
And we certainly hit it off.

Speaker 5 Let me you guys.

Speaker 5 But there was a lot of forward-thinking people. Yeah.

Speaker 10 It's funny.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 yesterday I interviewed Ayers for the podcast and we were talking about,

Speaker 10 you know, we were, we were talking about conferences because he was talking a little bit about the Last Better conference and how they're changing the name to agency success because they want to be bigger and all that.

Speaker 10 And we, you know, we were just talking about all that stuff. And we were talking about Elevate and Elevate 2017 and 18, the conferences that I put on back in the day and how

Speaker 10 you know, Elevate 2018 was great. And that was kind of the launching point for, say, like

Speaker 10 Neon and some of the other projects projects coming out of there.

Speaker 10 But 2017 was kind of very similar to that San Diego IAOA for me, where like you just had this moment where a certain group of people got together

Speaker 10 who were ambitious, but also friendly and caring and willing to share and supportive. And like you have these like touchdown moments where

Speaker 10 all of a sudden just the right group of people get together and you leave it going, wow, I just met 10 people who I now will, who will help me, who I can ask questions of.

Speaker 10 And I had a very similar feeling from that, whatever that was, 2019 or 2020, whatever it was, IAOA conference, just coming out of there, all of a sudden, you know, like McDonough now, you know, he helped us set up our entire nurse triage program, right?

Speaker 10 So for free, spends three different hour-long calls with me and helps us set up that process for us, right? Which you know, that's three hours of his life. He's a busy dude.

Speaker 10 And for him to, over the course of like a couple of of months, spend that time with us to get it right, like

Speaker 10 that, that's really special in my opinion. And,

Speaker 10 you know, it only comes by sharing the same air. That's the only way that you get that.

Speaker 5 Well, that's, that goes back to meeting in person. But a guy like Mike, he's going to share anyway.
And

Speaker 5 we

Speaker 5 wouldn't have the connections that we have today if it wasn't for conferences like that and social media and Facebook. And that's how we talk to all of these people all the time.

Speaker 5 It was actually 2020. That's when the last time we got it.

Speaker 10 It was January 2020.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Yep.
Because after that, then we shut down the country and you launched.

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 10 Yeah. I'm going to, hi, everyone.
I'm going to wait till the peak of COVID craziness and I'm just going to launch this business out into it.

Speaker 5 That's a great idea.

Speaker 10 No, it's

Speaker 10 funny. You know, you, well, I don't want to go down.
I've kind of made a, I've committed myself into the audience that I'm not going to go

Speaker 10 political as much anymore.

Speaker 5 There you go.

Speaker 5 I want to talk to you. Trust me, I want to.
I talked to an InsureTech payment processor last night, and they are just crushing it.

Speaker 5 And he was like, we were, they've been around for five, six, seven years, something like that, and they were doing good. And then when COVID hit for them, it accelerated everything.

Speaker 5 And so they're in banking and insurance and finance. And, you know, COVID has just like Zoom, right? Zoom.
exploded because we couldn't meet face-to-face anymore.

Speaker 5 We had to do everything electronically.

Speaker 10 Well, I mean, everyone forgets that before COVID, zoom was like thought of as like this janky like second rate like you didn't you didn't really use it like it was it was like the the cheapos video conferencing thing and now it's you just zoom i mean you just what are you going to do you're going to do zoom i actually refuse to go on webps now if i have a carrier that says we're going to do webs i'm like nope i hate web nope nope not i can't get it to work with my setup something doesn't work the mic doesn't work the camera doesn't there is always something that's broken

Speaker 10 and and then it screws up all the other programs on the computer you're like no thank you no thank you not a stupid guy i don't know why it is that i can't figure out how to use you're not stupid that's just terrible software and anyone i i've told i literally i had a carrier reach out to me and we were talking about doing an appointment and um i'm actually very interested but i i kind of had to put on hold for obvious reasons the si thing and stuff but um but they did a web ex the first one was a web ex and i i didn't want to i didn't want to they're like for security reasons i said whatever so we did security reasoning like we could meet in a coffee shop and have a conversation what is so secure that we're talking about in a marketing meeting i don't have no idea doesn't matter

Speaker 10 it wasn't these people so i didn't want to give them too hard a time i mean these were just these guys were doing their job and and they're all good people so you know they didn't they're not the ones that chose web expos so i was trying to give them a hard time but i get on there and the very first thing i say to them because i just couldn't help myself i was like just so you know

Speaker 10 I am currently judging you based on the fact that we're on WebEx.

Speaker 5 Like I'm hardcore judging you. Just

Speaker 10 so you know, that if we're, if there's a tally, this one went in the no tally because we're using WebEx right now. You know, and it was funny.
I think one of the guys kind of laughed.

Speaker 10 The other two, the other two women were kind of like looking at like, is he serious?

Speaker 10 I was like, well, I'm only half joking, not really, but yes.

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Speaker 10 so yeah yeah yeah so so so i let's i want to talk a little bit about mod advisor yeah one because it's um

Speaker 10 uh on your brain two it's a big part of what you're doing and three because

Speaker 10 um

Speaker 10 what i have seen now with rogue right we write in lower 48 uh where we've written we've actually written policies in 39 of the 48 states um we have risks in 40 something of the 48 states and

Speaker 10 we've basically written policies that are 200 and we've written policies that are 200 000

Speaker 10 so

Speaker 10 i look at that and i talk to my team all the time about what they're hearing why they're you know what's going on and

Speaker 10 what i've taken from it is that digital consumers

Speaker 3 re

Speaker 10 demand or are have the expectation of just as much consultation and advising as an in-person local consumer does.

Speaker 10 They can take it on multiple lines of communication. It doesn't have to be all in one,

Speaker 10 you know, like if someone comes in for 45 minutes, you're going to dump all your advising on them in that 45 minutes, right?

Speaker 10 It tends to be more broken up over a series of communications, over a series of time.

Speaker 10 But that digital consumer expects the same quality service and advising, if you want to retain them that a local consumer does. So

Speaker 10 my point in that preamble is that I look at a tool like Mod Advisor and what you're doing. And as someone who also focuses on workers comp, to me,

Speaker 10 this seems like a necessity

Speaker 10 as we digitize. having a tool like Mod Advisor seems like a necessity if you're going to be a true advisor.
Do you think that that's accurate? Do you think it's kind of misrepresenting or?

Speaker 5 No,

Speaker 5 I think you're right right on the mark and you're 100 accurate here it if you're going to be the broker that is going to be the consultative broker right

Speaker 5 and your client has problems they've got problems on their workers compensation they've got claims they're paying more for costs the last thing they need is another quote I mean,

Speaker 5 I get that we rush to that mindset. Let me quote your insurance.
Let me quote your insurance. Well, that doesn't solve the root cause of the problem or the high mod.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 And so,

Speaker 5 you know, our whole, our whole focus at Mod Advisor is let's show, let's identify the problem in a format that's easy for your clients to understand. And that's the feedback that we're hearing.

Speaker 5 They're like, you've dumbed down the mod so much, it's super easy for us. And whether you're in construction or manufacturing or transportation, they get it.

Speaker 5 I mean, we're showing reports in simple green, yellow, red. Everybody knows what a red circle means, that it's not good or stop, right?

Speaker 5 So a lot of what we hear from our users and their clients is it's so simple to communicate to their clients what the problem is. Well, then how do we help? That's where we've got our resource library.

Speaker 5 We're solely focused on things like return to work programs and how do we help agents help their clients solve that problem and pay less for insurance.

Speaker 5 So back to your point, if you're going to be any type of a consultative risk manager, and it's hard to do that on the small accounts, right?

Speaker 5 You need to have some, you need to have some premium size in there. Yeah.
Yeah. You're going to need some type of tool to help educate your clients and your prospects.

Speaker 5 And then I'm amazed. I had a conversation with an agent the other day that was like, he told me that I didn't know what I was talking about because in their state, they don't use experience mods.

Speaker 5 I said, do you sell work comp? And he goes, yeah, 30% of my book. I'm like,

Speaker 5 there's an experience mod everywhere. And this, it blew my mind.
Some people are just selling out there on price. They're not actually even doing the consulting work.

Speaker 10 Yeah, I would say, I don't, I actually don't think most are. I think that, you know, I, we,

Speaker 10 so one of the facts that I've quoted many times on the show recently, and I will continue to, because I think it's very important.

Speaker 10 32% of the business that we get, because we get everything's inbound for the most part. You know, we have our team that are hunters, but I don't really count them.

Speaker 10 You know, I, what I look at is what's coming in because I think it's more represent representative of the market because these people have a problem and they're actually seeking help, right?

Speaker 10 That's why they find us.

Speaker 10 32% of the market is not, is that that comes to us, 32% of the opportunities are

Speaker 5 broker related.

Speaker 10 They don't get back to us. We don't get good advice.
We never hear from them. They can't help us.
They won't help us. Won't help us is a big one.
It's probably like 5% or 6%. That's crazy.

Speaker 10 Won't help us. Like, nah, we don't do that.
Nah, we're not interested. It's crazy.
So

Speaker 10 what I take from that is everything you just said,

Speaker 10 I've seen validated in what comes into us is these digital consumers are not just looking for prices.

Speaker 10 Obviously, some people are, and some people do lead with price, but that's not why they're buying from us.

Speaker 10 They're coming because they just want help.

Speaker 10 They want someone who's going to treat them like an adult, walk them through their policy in a timely manner, and get them something that they can use.

Speaker 10 And too many of us are just quote, throw the quote out in an email and then go, ah, these people are just price shoppers. They're not just price shoppers.
You treat them like an a-hole.

Speaker 10 That's why they came to you for advice and you treated them like a transaction. And, you know,

Speaker 10 to me, anything that differentiates you as an advisor, one, is better for the client, which should be our first priority, but two, absolutely separates you from everyone else.

Speaker 5 So here's the interesting thing. Like, you and I both sell insurance for a living.
I have zero control over the price, as you will know, zero control over the claims experience.

Speaker 5 But what I can control is what's in my head and how I help my clients.

Speaker 5 The price that's reflective of that is either I charge a consulting fee or it's going to be what the insurance company charges that I recommend that you go with.

Speaker 5 I'm totally okay if they don't go with me. I'm totally okay if they price shop.
Go have your problems.

Speaker 5 But I guarantee you, when you have those problems and you start paying more and your current broker maybe doesn't have the experience, that's when you're going to come back.

Speaker 5 And then we're not going to have a price conversation. We're going to have a, hey, I really need help.
Can you fix this for me?

Speaker 5 And that's where, that's, that's where you're going to build that long, lasting relationship and show the value of what you do

Speaker 10 this is this might sound like a lot of left field convers uh question but what is your take on

Speaker 10 on policy fees and and and here's just a little bit of context we have had an internal discussion as a way to pre-qualify people leads so we have a we basically go subscriber lead suspect prospect client that's that's our process subscriber is someone who we're aware of but has not shown interest lead shows interest suspect qualified market, prospect wants, you know, is going through the quoting process and client, client.

Speaker 10 Okay. So

Speaker 10 we've actually discussed internally, this is not something that we have in place today, but we've discussed

Speaker 10 throwing a small policy fee on every policy

Speaker 10 above 5,000 in premium.

Speaker 10 for the sole purpose of weeding out people who don't appreciate or aren't interested in the advisor characteristics of what from lead to suspect.

Speaker 10 5,000 might be too low. This is 100% just a mental exercise.
It is not something that's even on the roadmap, but it is something that we've had a couple of conversations with as we've talked about

Speaker 10 how do you get the customers that you want from lead to suspect. And

Speaker 10 they're just interested in your take on that.

Speaker 5 I think that

Speaker 5 I don't know. I don't, so there's two things here.
I think education. I mean, create your marketing funnel with education.

Speaker 5 I think that's the best way to attract people and move them through the pipeline. Just provide value and provide help, and they're going to seek you out and find you.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 I know that we do a lot of, you know, there's a lot of gimmity marketing tricks and we're going to pound you with emails.

Speaker 5 I'm going to give you the best piece of advice I've heard in the last three months. It was from a tech founder.
And he, we were talking about spam emails. And he says, here's what I do.

Speaker 5 I create a rule where if I receive an email with the word unsubscribe in it, it automatically gets deleted. No more spam emails.

Speaker 5 And I mean, if you look at your junk email, like there's everyone trying to move them from suspect to lead and just by hammering on them and getting them to buy. And hey,

Speaker 5 most of the people don't want that. They're not seeing it.
I just had a demo with somebody today, said, I'm not going to call and harass you. Whenever you're ready, call me back.

Speaker 5 It doesn't sound like you're ready today. And that's perfectly okay.

Speaker 5 Figure out what your process is. Figure out the target markets you want to go after.

Speaker 5 When you want the resource to help advise those people we'll be here but outside of that i'm not going to harass you and that's just that's not a sales model that i've ever really bought into yeah hammer until you buy yeah what was the other part of the question no no the policy fee part that was oh let's talk about policy fees i totally think our system is broken nationwide and agents should be able to charge a fee for whatever they want yeah

Speaker 10 That so here was my thought.

Speaker 10 Here was our internal conversation because I'm not sold on policy fees and they're not, they're not legal in in every state, but our two biggest states, which are California and New York right now,

Speaker 10 you can charge a policy fee. So

Speaker 10 the internal discussion went something like,

Speaker 10 so we're getting 300 plus inbound leads a month.

Speaker 10 That's more than our team can handle. And one of our biggest pain points is the lead to suspect jump, right?

Speaker 10 people that we're treating like suspects who shouldn't be and we're trying to get better at filtering that and we're developing some processes around that internally.

Speaker 10 And, and someone mentioned, what if we charged a policy fee, which was like a minimum of $100

Speaker 10 or 1% of the premium, you know, just something, you know, just don't hold me to what the numbers are. But that was kind of the concept.

Speaker 10 With the simple point of not that we care about the, the policy fee is not meant, although it would be a revenue channel, was not meant to be a driver of revenue growth.

Speaker 10 It's meant to be a, if you're willing to pay a $100 policy fee, then you're mentally bought into our process and

Speaker 10 are committing to us. It's essentially like signing a letter of engagement to a certain extent.
And

Speaker 10 what did we, you know, where did we fall on that? And again, we did not come up with a, I don't want everyone's gonna be like, ah, I'm gonna get a whole bunch of messages from this.

Speaker 10 And I would love everyone's feedback. Just understand that when sometimes when you refer to me, what I hear in my brain is, that's what I hear when I see some of your responses.

Speaker 10 But, but I don't, I still appreciate them.

Speaker 10 But like, you know, so we're not doing this, but it was just, it was like, how do you get them to commit to you? Because

Speaker 10 every other, especially for digital brokers, every other digital broker can't break 40% retention. Just, you can't, you just look at, look across the board, right?

Speaker 10 Like Goldman Sachs just put 200 million into Newfront. Newfront's retention is like 40 something.

Speaker 10 So, you know, it's great. They're amazing at new business acquisition, but they can't keep that business, or at least that's the word on the street.

Speaker 10 I want to have local independent agency retention and be a digital agency. So we'll say 80s.
If I can crack the 80s in retention as a digital broker, we will do very, very well.

Speaker 10 To do that, we have to be better at the business that we bring in.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 that's where some of these ideas have started to percolate. And I've thought, okay, what are the tools? Like a mod advisor, that's why I had Scott reach out to you.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 10 Are there tools that we should have that can help us be better advisors? Are there systems that we can put in place for qualifying leads?

Speaker 10 Like I put all these things in the same larger bucket, different segments of that bucket, as we start to think, how do we, when someone goes from a lead to a suspect, how do we,

Speaker 10 how do we do that better? Because that's the jump where you make the mistake. Suspect to prospect to client is easy.
Lead to suspect is where a lot of people make mistakes and they don't even realize.

Speaker 5 Yeah,

Speaker 5 that's a that's

Speaker 5 I don't know that I have any advice for you on that.

Speaker 10 Fuck, Todd.

Speaker 5 I thought you were going to solve this freaking problem for me, my man.

Speaker 5 No, I thought you were talking about policy fees.

Speaker 5 I think there's so many agencies, I just want to charge a fee sometimes because the account's so small that the level of service that we need to provide, like I understand that you might want our service,

Speaker 5 but on an $800 policy, the whole thing maybe

Speaker 5 we end up putting more money into that thing than the commission check that the insurance company writes. You do.
And so it's negative for us.

Speaker 5 In the state of Iowa, where we're at, you can't charge a fee if you're also giving commission. And I think at the end of the day, we end up doing a disservice to our clients and our policyholders.
And

Speaker 5 there's not enough conversation around charging fees the right way.

Speaker 5 And if the customer is willing to pay it because they want the level of service, then I don't know why we need the state to regulate and say you can't do that.

Speaker 10 Yeah. Well, Democrats are the reason.
But, you know, I think that

Speaker 10 the,

Speaker 10 you know, the

Speaker 10 for some reason, when you become a Democrat, you forget math. Like math, you just don't understand math.
It doesn't, it doesn't work anymore.

Speaker 10 Anything that involves numbers, you become your IQ drops to about 20. But

Speaker 10 I'm completely with you because what ends up, even though

Speaker 10 I get the bleeding heart mentality is, oh, they're already paying a commission. Why should they also pay you this? And you're like, well, here's why.
We don't make any money.

Speaker 10 So they get shit service and they get put to the bottom of the barrel.

Speaker 10 And we don't reshop them and we don't take their calls and we don't answer their emails and we don't do anything because we're losing money every time we work with them.

Speaker 5 Right.

Speaker 10 And I think that there are some ways through automation and outsourcing and self-service to

Speaker 10 get some of that margin back, but it is razor thin, razor thin.

Speaker 10 That's a big part of why Rogue has a dual strategy of select, which is 25,000 premium under and premiere, which is larger commercial and middle market.

Speaker 5 Wouldn't it be great if everything was just net net neutral, no commission, then you just override it on the top? Yeah. And then you have to justify what it is that you're doing.

Speaker 5 And for example, you come in and say, hey, here's a digital experience that you're going to have. Here's all the tools and resources that's going to make your life easier.

Speaker 5 So you don't have to spend 45 minutes on the phone with the insurance company. What's that 45 minutes of time worth with you? Yeah.
I don't know.

Speaker 10 Well, what you just described is called capitalism. And again, Democrats don't believe in capitalism.

Speaker 10 Let's just give everyone their insurance for free. College, insurance.
We'll make airplane rides, Teslas. We'll just make it all free.
He doesn't pay tax.

Speaker 10 We should just think everyone should get a Tesla. You get a Tesla and you get a Tesla.
You get a Tesla.

Speaker 5 I went political.

Speaker 10 I'm sorry, everybody. I'm sorry.
Democrats are people too. We just should send them all to Australia.

Speaker 5 It's funny. There's a, there's a, there's a young man in my office named Cole that or in Tam's agency that

Speaker 5 runs our office. And every year he, on his birthday, he emails Elon Musk, says, this year I get a free Tesla.

Speaker 5 Elon has yet to respond, but maybe like five years in a row, every day I'll just say, you know, that's sends that tweet out.

Speaker 10 It is,

Speaker 10 yeah, I just,

Speaker 10 you know,

Speaker 10 i think that i think your idea of a of a of a net policy that then you get to dictate now i'm all for the transparency stuff i think you absolutely should have to be we should why not have a standardized form for what you get paid right like i'm going to charge a seven percent fee or a flat thousand whatever you standardize that right and and and you make it so everyone has to sign it every policy every time whatever you know you can like a standardized form no problem.

Speaker 10 Make it transparent, but it should be net, no commission, charge feed on top. And then, and then the market has to dictate it.

Speaker 10 Because if we're in the same market and you're charging 7%, and I'm just making these numbers up, you're charging seven, I'm charging nine. I have to justify my nine to your seven, right?

Speaker 10 And people are going to talk. You think people don't talk? People are going to go, hey.
Tam's agency is just as good as Hanley's agency, and they're only charging 7% and not 9%.

Speaker 5 And you might go, well, hey, we're going to go to eight.

Speaker 10 And then I come down to eight and now we're competing head to head or whatever i mean that's how the system should work it also allows us to say okay you know i get that you're you're a 500 consulting bop you're actually going to give us i can charge less for that because you're never going to call me once you're never going to need anything you're going to auto renew every year with hartford or traveler or chubb wherever you're with that's easy but you're a 500

Speaker 10 bakery or something like that you're a pain in the ass and i'm going to have to send out different certs and you're going to call me and someone's going to slip, and you're going to light something on fire.

Speaker 10 And that $500 bop should have a $500 policy fee on it because you're going to talk, and there's no way to dictate. There's no way to handle that.

Speaker 10 And like you said, it just, it's such a, you end up just kind of shuffling those people back.

Speaker 5 Yep, I don't disagree. Yeah.

Speaker 10 So, um,

Speaker 10 as much as you are willing, taking it back to mod advisor, um, as much as you are willing, what is the, what is, what's coming down the pipe?

Speaker 10 If you can tease anything, what are some of the features that are coming or, you know, cool schmoogies that we're going to get here? We're going to see like what should people be jacked up about?

Speaker 10 Why should they get on the newsletter dying? Although you just told them all to

Speaker 10 send your newsletter or whatever you send out to spam,

Speaker 10 which I don't necessarily think that that's a good idea, but

Speaker 10 what should they be waiting for? What should they be waking up every morning breathless, waiting for you to announce? Like, Like, what is that? What does that look like?

Speaker 5 Well, so right now we're

Speaker 5 finalizing the four remaining states.

Speaker 5 Obviously, New York has a big

Speaker 5 change coming through with their workers' compensation, the way they calculate the mod September of this year. That'll be next in our build out.
So we'll be

Speaker 5 in the next five months, we'll be entirely nationwide.

Speaker 5 I am committed.

Speaker 5 I'm telling you, I'm 100% committed to making this software so easy for insurance agents and value with resources that we will that will be the number one advisor platform when it comes to workers' compensation.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 the priorities and the commitments that we have right now and what we're pushing through is all with that single intent.

Speaker 5 And I hear there's a lot of frustration around duplicate data entry.

Speaker 5 And I think we intend to solve that problem and make it super easy for brokerages across the country to get lost information, payroll information and everything in our system and do that quick and fast yeah i mean this shouldn't be a manual time consuming thing you shouldn't have three people running mod analysis for you on the back room uh you know doing all the calculations for your clients and so i can tell you everything that we're going to do in the next 12 to 24 months is going to simplify that entire process and make it super slick i love it it just it shouldn't be this hard it shouldn't be this hard well most of the stuff that we do in our industry shouldn't be this hard i'm glad that there are people people like yourself who have the balls to create these kind of things because, and, you know, male or female, the proverbial balls, not actual, you don't actually have to have them, but just, you know, that, that term, because it does, you're putting yourself out there, right?

Speaker 10 I mean, you could create this and it could blow up in your face. And now all of a sudden you've taken yourself away from your agency and shifted your focus and spent brain cycles.

Speaker 10 That's a big risk. And I think it's amazing.
And I give you so much credit.

Speaker 10 And it's why, you know, I just love having you on on the show and just enjoy our relationship in general is it takes a lot of guts to do that.

Speaker 10 And I just couldn't be happier that, you know, you're seeing that success and you're getting some of the early payoffs in terms of like broker tech ventures and all the all the publicity.

Speaker 10 I think it's, I think it's absolutely tremendous. And you got a sweet pair of kicks out of it, too, which is great.

Speaker 5 I got a sweet pair of kicks. I've got, I've got a really nice mod advisor cup here.
Nice.

Speaker 5 Makes it all work.

Speaker 5 If your users are listening, I mean, we throw around the term for agents, by agents, but I don't think there's any better of a group of people in this country that are doing things to improve the independent agent channel.

Speaker 5 And I know we talk about some of the large companies out there and, you know,

Speaker 5 how they do things to get a return on VC money. And sometimes that's not always helpful to how we operate our insurance agencies or how other people operate their insurance agencies.

Speaker 5 And everything that I do with Mod Advisor is 100%. committed to the independent agent channel.

Speaker 5 If you go on Mod Advisor right now and you you go under learn, you can request a resource. I just showed a guy, he goes, Well, I want to go after trucking, and here's the problems.

Speaker 5 Tell me what problem you have, we'll build out resources to help you win that business.

Speaker 5 I mean, I don't know anywhere else you can go, it's that they will custom design you the content you need to help close accounts and actually help your clients reduce their total cost of risk. Yeah,

Speaker 5 it's tremendous. Give people what they want, it's not a hard concept.

Speaker 10 It isn't, it's it is, and it and it seems to be at the same time.

Speaker 10 Well, it's greed.

Speaker 10 I've had this conversation with with ragoff from tarmica because he's always busting my chops because you know his and i and and he's created and i'm obviously an enormous fan of tarmica

Speaker 10 i mean this only

Speaker 10 and and just he's an interesting cat and gives me a hard time but like i he busts my chops because i tend to

Speaker 10 i tend to skew towards my vision and mission for what I want to build versus straight revenue. Not that I don't like creating revenue, not that I don't think revenue is important.

Speaker 10 I'm I'm not a socialist. I'm the whole thing.
I get it. But like, and he's like, no, you are in business to make money.
That's your goal.

Speaker 10 He goes, yes, you have to deliver value to make money or people won't buy your shit. But like, you know, and obviously he's delivered a tremendous amount of value.

Speaker 10 But my point in saying that is I think far too often companies hit a certain size.

Speaker 10 you you get someone into a leadership position or a board position who is wholly removed from the client set that you're trying to serve and then all of a sudden decisions start getting made that are not in the best interest of customers.

Speaker 10 And that is where we've seen problem after problem after problem after problem, you know, all the, all, you know, you could line up the dozens of stories that we have of companies who started as, you know, you know, whatever.

Speaker 10 And then

Speaker 10 it just,

Speaker 10 I'm glad that you're sticking to it. I'm excited for it.
I think it's great.

Speaker 10 And we've, you know, and the best part is, you know, if you do stick to this model of four agents buyers, which I believe that you will, I, you know, I just, it is proven that if you can kind of last through some of the early days, man, there is a huge, huge windfall in the back end and a lot of value to be provided.

Speaker 10 So I'm just, I'm happy for you, man.

Speaker 5 Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Speaker 10 Yeah. Dude, I want to be respectful of your time.
I appreciate you so much.

Speaker 10 Thank you for this. Great conversations as always.

Speaker 10 If someone's interested in Mod Advisor, where do they go? And if they want to just connect with you and be part of your ecosystem, where do they go for that?

Speaker 5 Modadvisor.com has a direct link to book my schedule. Certainly you can find me on LinkedIn, not as much on Twitter.

Speaker 5 I need to get on that platform a little more, especially now that Elon Musk is super interested in it. Yeah, because I just saw

Speaker 5 a headline today. I think he's got the money to buy it.

Speaker 5 I'm also on Facebook. You'll see a lot of cooking videos on there if you follow me on Facebook.

Speaker 10 Yeah, if you have a hard time with me, then. you know, like my problem is that I don't have the grill skills.

Speaker 10 So I look at the shit you make and then I look at the stuff I make and I feel like less of a man is the problem.

Speaker 5 It's, It's, it's super interesting. My, uh, the, the senior developer on my development team, he's vegetarian.

Speaker 5 Him and his wife are vegetarian. And I'm posting these, you know, big pictures of pork and meat and bacon.
And,

Speaker 5 you know, we had this conversation. He's like, we don't eat meat, but we love what you're doing.

Speaker 5 And so he sends me pictures of,

Speaker 5 I just, I tell you, in India, they make some pretty cool food. Yeah.
And a lot of it is just, you know, how they prepare it and how it looks is absolutely amazing.

Speaker 5 And one of these days, we're going to head over there and meet him. And I can't wait to eat all of his vegetarian food and then come back and have a big old steak.

Speaker 5 That's awesome. All right, brother.

Speaker 10 Well, hey, I appreciate you so much. Thank you again.
We're out of here. Peace.

Speaker 5 Awesome. Take care, Annely.
Thanks again.

Speaker 9 Close twice as many deals by this time next week. Sound impossible?

Speaker 3 It's not.

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Speaker 9 If you're ready to stop losing opportunities and start winning, visit mastertheclose.com. That's masterofftheclothes.com.
Do it today.

Speaker 8 For the next 20 seconds, picture yourself in a small town. Historic buildings, hip galleries, and a chairlift right on Main Street, smack in the middle of town.
Now picture yourself on that chairlift.

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Hey, is that a moose down there?

Speaker 8 If you can't wait to find out, you're the mountain kind. And you need to visit Park City, Utah.

Speaker 12 At Capella University, learning the right skills could make a difference. That's why our business programs teach you relevant skills you can take from the course room to the workplace.

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Speaker 7 Learn more at capella.edu.

Speaker 11 Did you know 39% of teen drivers admit to texting while driving? Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights.

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Speaker 6 Hey everybody, it's Babs. You know, one thing that makes the holiday season so magical is the traditions we share year after year.
And that's why I'm so excited to tell you about Birch Lane.

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Speaker 7 This is the story of the one. As a custodial supervisor at a high school, he knows that during cold and flu season, germs spread fast.

Speaker 7 It's why he partners with Granger to stay fully stocked on the products and supplies he needs, from tissues to disinfectants to floor scrubbers.

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Granger for the ones who get it done.