Mike Birbiglia

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you are on the go and um

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And a little bit of ice.

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And a little almond milk.

And almond milk.

And it's great.

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Yeah.

Yeah.

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Great dude today, Dana.

Mike Berbigley.

I'd like to buy a bowl here.

Burbigley, yes.

Berbigs, known as.

Burbigs.

If you don't have time, you say Berbigley

and you lose the A.

Save time.

Yeah.

Mikey B, by the end of the podcast, we were very good friends.

Mikey B

has a new special on Netflix, The Good Life.

He's one of the great storytellers we have out there.

And he'll deep dive into his methodology about having a theme where he can go kind of serious and funny.

It's very interesting.

Yeah, explains a one-man show.

What's the difference between a stand-up set?

Went to Georgetown, did a comedy contest early on.

I did at ASU also.

So we had that.

Oh, we talked about that.

We kicked and scratched about that.

He's a sleepwalker.

We make fun of him for that.

He does sleepwalk, and there's some danger involved, and it's a long story.

And

it's something that's been a big part of his zeitgeist.

material.

And if you don't know him, he's well-respected comic out there in the New York Circuit.

Give it a listen, and you'll know him more.

We like to get people on here that you may not be a household name yet, but very close.

And sure, he will be.

He writes, he directs movies.

He did a sleepwalker movie and he's working on a new one.

So he breaks down

his methods for us.

And we have a bunch of laughs.

So stay tuned.

Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, wow.

As I live and breathe.

Yeah.

As I live and breathe.

Has anyone ever told you

that you kind of, when you smile, there is like your long-lost cousin, Bob Odekirk, just in this movie?

Oh, yeah.

I just told him.

I do get Odin Kirk sometimes.

We shot a pilot once for CBS like 15 years ago where he played my brother.

Oh, okay.

So,

so I was going to say that.

Is that the one that didn't go?

That's the one that didn't go.

Yeah.

We heard that saved your career getting away from Bob.

Yeah, whatever, whatever happened to him.

And Nick Kroll.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

I like the executive that passed on it.

I mean, if it's something like that, you just say yes.

Even if the show sucks, you go, yes, let's get all these guys under a deal.

And then you start changing it or whatever you want to do.

That's right.

Sometimes I think that I go, why are you passing on this package?

It's too good.

Did you think it was bad?

Because, you know, I know Bob Odekirk fairly well.

And he would be

very comedy, it is really really important to Bob, to say the least.

Thank you.

No, no, it's great.

Oh, you guys are so funny.

He's awesome.

He said the single, we're non-secret with her, but since you're smiling and you know him, the single maybe funniest thing that's ever been said on the podcast.

Because we knew Bob when he was like an underling.

He was like an SNL and stuff.

But I always loved him.

He's a writer, but he's kind of struggling.

It's in his book.

He comes on our Zoom and

Better Call Saul was kind of like, you know, he knew comedians have like, what, what the fuck, Bob Hooker.

Now he's like winning Emmies as an actor.

And then when he did nobody or the fighting one, what was that called?

Yeah, nobody.

Yeah.

And he said to himself, if this thing works, man, you guys are going to be going, what the fuck?

Yeah.

And everyone did.

Star now.

It's just like, because we know Bob from before.

So it's funny.

And there's a sequel, Dan.

We're going to let you talk in a sec, but I just want to say.

No, no, no.

We don't need to do that.

No, I mean, Odin Kirk.

Yeah.

He came to the filming of the Good Life because he's in town doing Glen Gary Glenn Ross.

And he's just like a deeply supportive person of, I think, comedians.

He's just really good to comedians, fellow comedians.

Yes.

Good dude overall.

If I'm not mistaken, he rode living in a van down by the river.

You are not mistaken.

Yeah.

You are not mistaken.

One of the biggest gifts to SNL.

By the way, do you remember when we met?

This will be a really quick story.

You may not.

I opened for you in Rhode Island at a college.

Is that what that's it?

But

I was on some kind of doing a little mini tour.

So I had a friend of mine, Mark Pitt, it was my opener, and no one told me that they booked an opener.

So when we showed up, they go, this guy, Mike, wants to go up.

And, you know,

and you don't come off like a cocky guy.

You're kind of on a zoom.

I go, oh, no, no, what's this fucking guy going to do?

What's he going to do?

I didn't know.

I didn't know you.

Do we really need him?

Oh, yeah.

So, you know, I'm thinking, oh, yeah.

This is going to be a cluster fuck.

This guy, I'm not getting good vibes.

So then I'm watching you.

Not good vibes.

What the fuck?

Well, because

Mike is unassuming and quiet.

And then I'm watching the show.

I'm like, he's building and building.

And I went, holy shit.

This guy is great.

Yeah.

Oh, that's so nice.

I thought it at the time.

And I do not think I followed you correctly.

I think you left a wake because it was clever and stuff.

I made some faces, did some funny sounds, and after

10 minutes, it was like, they were done.

It was, it was like, you know, you absolutely crushed.

It was, I, I don't think I'd never seen you live, but you know, I grew up on both of you guys on SNL.

So I would do

in seventh grade, I remember I was doing at school Church Lady, Hans and Franz, George Bush Sr.

Sorry.

And by the way, killing.

Killing.

Literally doing your characters.

No one really knew what they were from SNL.

So I was just getting, I was like the seventh grade hack.

So they didn't know you were from SNL.

So you're doing your new character in junior high called the church lady like that.

Yeah.

Exactly.

And killing with it.

I was killing.

Do you want to do it?

I'd be funny.

I would never.

I would never.

It would be the most embarrassing thing thing about it.

That's an easy one to do.

Well, everybody, I mean, that's one of the things about your impressions is that your impressions are so good.

Thank you.

I mean, your Biden is so crazy good that essentially it's that thing in culture where everyone retrofits their Biden.

Yeah.

They all, everyone goes, now wait a minute.

It's like walking.

Everyone turns into a walk-in at a certain point.

You go, oh, now I can do it.

It's like a home kit.

And guess what?

And by the way,

it was the non-sequitur.

Guess what?

And by the way, guess what?

The fact of the matter is, I'm not getting around here.

I'm being serious.

I'll knock you out, Jack.

Get your facts straight, Jack.

I'll beat the hell out of you.

Take them out of watching.

How would I have known about the cancer?

They couldn't have known.

They don't do checks for that kind of thing.

There you go.

What if they knew about the cancer for four years?

It's like another thing.

They're like, wait, there's another thing we kind of space spaced out.

Okay, so I used to do SNL impressions in seventh grade.

And then I remember

here's the mistake I made.

I did John Lovitz's Annoying Man.

If people don't know the character, he just shows up.

Yeah, Dennis shows up to Dennis Miller's update, and he just goes, annoying man.

He puts his fingers around his eyes and shit.

I did it to this guy in class named Kenny, who was tough.

And I go, Kenny, annoying man.

Fucking, I don't know if I can say, curse.

You can't say it.

Socked me in the face.

So shocked me in the face.

Bleeding in science class, seventh grade.

And I never did annoying men again.

The name of the character is who the character is.

I just love that.

We did too much of that back then.

I think Santa was crazy, spoon man.

Yeah, and he had a crazy spoon.

Opera man.

We had a lot of man.

Shell on the head productions, man.

I don't think they do do it as much anymore like that.

You know, just straight up.

Here's what it is.

What do you think, Mike?

Just building it out from who the people are.

Comedy is sorry because we would have little jingles like, he's massive, massive head wound, hairy, or Lyle, be effeminate, heterosexual.

And when I was out there, I asked them and they said, oh, we don't, we don't do that anymore.

Well, I guess it's out of fashion.

But to me, it's so funny to lay it all out like that, present it.

I think my favorite analysis of SNL through the years, because I've watched it since I was a kid, I still watch it, is when Seth Meyers said,

every single episode since the beginning of time, some of it is great, some of it's terrible, some of it's okay.

And it's never changed.

Very true.

No, it's never changed.

That's why we don't have a plethora of other live sketch shows in America, except now they're going to do one in Great Britain, I guess, Saturday night and Jolly Out London.

So, but yeah, it's not easy and you're humiliated half the time.

You know, you kind of just, it didn't really happen.

You know, it didn't happen.

The audience knows it didn't happen.

Lauren Michaels knows it didn't happen.

And you kind of just

blew it.

I made, I made a movie.

I don't know if you guys know this.

I made a movie called Don't Think Twice years ago.

about Keegan, Michael Key and Gillian Jacobs are part of like an improv group where everyone's best friends.

And then one of them gets cast on like a Saturday Night Live type of show called Weekend Live and then everyone else doesn't and it's about what happens in friendships when when people realize they're not going to get the same thing.

Do you, did you guys have that when you guys got it?

Yes, sure.

That's the whole, that's going back to the improv and seeing people you saw and now you got a little heat on you.

And but I watched people do it before me and after.

So it's always just an odd.

And then you get on SNL and it's the same thing.

People get in sketches and all their stuff gets on that week and yours does.

And you go, hey, good job.

Go get them.

Yeah.

It is a funny thing.

It's so hard to cover.

You're like, because you're coming from your stand-up scene and your friends, you know, and then suddenly you're on television and they're not.

And it's just kind of awkward.

You know, Bobby Slayton was like, I can't believe, I can't believe this saw a Saturday night live.

I can't believe it.

I can't believe this saw a Saturday night.

You, of all people, you.

Of all people, you know, yeah.

And Seinfeld was always because Jerry had, you know, this spectacular confidence even way before he made it.

You know, you just see i met him in like 1980 he was in his suit and he had it all together yeah i've always heard that and then when i got on snl and went to some award show for comedians or something he goes he just walked up and goes congratulations you made it and just walked away it wasn't no envy nothing but um I yeah, showbiz is like, have you had that experience?

Because what I was going to ask you is this, and it goes to an overarching theme of how you do your performance.

When you were coming up through in in the clubs, did, because a lot of times the blender's going, you got to follow a dick joke guy.

And so how did you survive those days before you became?

Well, it was funny.

It's like, I remember because I was a writer.

You know, when I was in high school, I saw Steven Wright live at the Kick Cut Melody 10.

And I was just like.

This is the greatest thing I've ever seen in my life.

You know, before that, I'd watched SNL, I'd watched Early Letterman, but then when I saw a comedian live, I was like, this is crazy.

He was a different comedian.

He's like

a perfect linesmith.

Yeah.

It's like perfect, perfect comedian.

And I was just like, I want to, you know, I want to do this.

And then I just started writing jokes.

And I had, you know, notebooks of jokes.

And then by the time I, when I was in college, I was working the door at the Washington, D.C.

improv.

And great.

And

yeah, great club.

That's just one.

When you were in Dorothy, maybe it would be like Mitch Hedberg, Dave Mattell,

you know, and Margaret Cho and all these people who are great, you know, Dave, Dave Chappelle and Brian Regan.

And it was great.

And then when I would work the road after, when I, after I was 22, after college, I was working like hard gigs.

And I remember like, I would open for these guys and they would, I remember one guy, he just said to me, he goes, you're going to make it.

Like, I would do like not great.

And he goes, like, you're going to make it.

And I was like, I literally go, why?

Why do you?

It's a great question.

And And he goes, instead of thanks.

He goes,

you write your jokes.

I was like, what the fuck are you talking about?

What don't we all know?

That wasn't enough information.

No, there's a lot of, there was a lot of Rode Warriors that did a lot of dick jokes.

One guy, I can't remember, but this guy was so hungry they call him the human tripod, you know,

in loud bars.

And so to survive in that environment, you start to get louder and faster and bluer.

But yeah, you actually craft maybe saying yeah you're a crafty writer you're writing good material it will surface because you're you're you know if you get a crowd that listens i think that's what you need and some people can do it with this sound off

so

the way you write it's sort of like nate does right now he gets a quiet crowd that listens and waits for him and so yeah i think you over time like i've never heard one negative thing about your actor or anything and you know usually that's nice usually it's me kind of starting like i don't want to fan out over you.

I was watching

they're bad.

You know what I mean?

Just to get the thing rolling.

Just like, hey, you know, it's kind of shitty, but I like some of it, but it's just, you know, so I do that.

But I think you've got a good rep out there.

And I think that just grinds through and keeps your career going.

and keep getting better and better and better.

That's a good thing to have because it's hard to stick around in the biz, as we all know.

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Hello, it's Lena Dunham.

I host a podcast called The Sea Word with my dearest friend and historian of bad behavior, Alyssa Bennett.

What is up?

It's a chat show about women whose society is called crazy.

We're going to be rediscovering the stories of women society dismissed by calling them mad, sad, or just plain bad.

Listen to and follow the C word with Lena Dunham and Alyssa Bennett.

Available now, wherever you get your podcasts.

I'd like to make an observation about that in a minute, but first I just want to know about your first set because that everyone remembers their first set.

So

oh, you know, it's funny.

I just realized this.

First set was funniest person on campus contest at Georgetown University.

I love it.

Nick Kroll was in the contest with me.

Great comic.

And

the host was Victoria Jackson.

Oh, really?

Really?

That's a better story than I thought.

Love it.

Love it.

You're so funny, man.

You're cute.

You're cute and funny out there.

That's who she is.

I mean, she's a girl.

I swear to God, I came off stage.

We love her.

I came off stage.

And I, you know, it was like me doing a big character.

There was a musical number.

It was

bananas.

Oh, you knew the whole big giant thing back then.

Yeah, good job.

And I walked off stage and Victoria Jackson, who, you know, I idolized watching SNL.

Yes.

And she goes, you're going to be a comedian.

Oh, I love it.

I was literally the first person in my life to tell me I'm going to be a comedian.

I was like, I can't believe it.

What's coming from someone famous, that means a lot.

It was crazy.

It was a crazy experience because she on SNL,

she would obliterate.

Like, oh, like she would kill in Sketch

so hard, and super cute, so so unique.

I've said this before, but when I was in the 17th floor, and I think I just gotten the show, and Victoria was there, and Lauren Michaels came up to me because he just had talked to her.

He said, Dana,

will you talk to Victoria and try to figure out what that's all about?

Because you're wondering, what does that mean?

There's something funny.

She's playing a character, you know, but she wasn't, you know, and that purity bounced off the screen and an SNL.

This innocence, this true innocence about her.

But

so what I was going to observe about, because I like, we have stand-ups on this show.

And as a stand-up, I'm pretty much good with a great stand-up for about 15 minutes, you know.

As Spade said at the fifth day, I get the general gist.

You know, we know how the,

but with you and there's others, but you're, it's personal.

And so, there's a through line and a story.

I know, and I want to ask you about stand-up versus one-man show and the, you know, the blurring of that, but I found myself really compelled of this idea when you tell maybe a story to your daughter, you make up a story, then she pauses and says, and then what happens?

And so, you subtly ride this narrative.

And so, and then you go for this moment

where you just land a somber moment about your dad, you just say he felt sad, and it just sits there.

And I'm like, Yeah, so that you, and you're also balls out funny all the time.

So, it's very interesting.

I found myself like, I'm literally going to finish it.

I only got halfway through

today because

I want to know what happens.

So, it's uh, anyway, that's all I had to observe.

I'll let you guys talk now.

Well, that's that, that's definitely the goal.

Like, what happened was, is I, when I was in school, I was studying film and plays, like, how to write screenwriting and playwriting.

And

I thought for sure when I got out of school, like being a delusional 20-year-old, I was like, I'm going to be a screenwriter.

Of course, everyone wants me to write films.

Hall of Halloween.

Yeah, yeah.

They're all waiting.

Everyone's looking for screenwriting.

Hurry, get out of school.

Yeah.

And so I.

And so, and so then the closer I I got to graduation, the more I would talk to people in the business or adjacent to the business.

And they're like, yeah, no one wants movie scripts at all, especially not from you who has no credits or credibility.

And someone said to me, and I, I, I, and I thought it was good advice, they were like, you should just keep doing stand-up because, you know, you're working the door and you're, you're, you're pretty good at it.

And then eventually you'll be able to make movies.

And so along the way,

I started kind of merging playwriting and stand-up into a thing.

And so, when I think of the shows, I think of them kind of like what you're describing, like movies.

Like in a movie, you have to have the scene lead to the next scene, so then the next scene, so then the next scene.

And if it doesn't have that propulsion, you just shut it off.

Like,

people fade out.

You're surviving laugh to laugh, then, the ultimate opposite of this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But then I go, you know, like I think where I met Spade was over at the comedy seller one night, um, like maybe a year or two ago.

And that's where I work out the joke part of it.

Cause like the joke, because that's important too.

Like you have to have the jokes work in isolation with audience members that aren't there to see you.

That, that's the goal.

That's true.

And then because it's different than stand-up, because stand-up is literally like.

If you go 30 seconds without some sort of laugh, you're like, what's going on?

But if you have a one-man show and you're doing it like a story, you can have ups and downs and parts that are sort of dramatic.

Is that what you're saying?

Kind of.

Yeah.

And like, you know, I was lucky about, I don't know, 15 years ago,

17 years ago, I met up with Ira Glass, who's the host of This American Life on public radio.

And he kind of sort of, he kind of taught me.

how to shape individual like eight to 10 minute stories.

And I was doing this moth storytelling series in New York.

And so over the years, I just got, I got kind of hooked on this idea of like, oh, if you can have the jokes work and the story work and then and the larger show work, then like it's kind of a magical thing.

Who else is doing what you're doing of your generation?

I mean, I know you, you knew John Mulaney or you know John Mulaney and Nick Roll and stuff.

Yeah.

Is anyone else, because it seems like you kind of stick out in this way

right now?

Well, if you consider yourself as a stand-up, but you're also a one-man show guy.

So.

Well, I produced alex edelman's show which is called just for us um

and uh it's kind of it's definitely kind of in that vein i mean like uh

jacqueline novak i produced jaclyn novak's show get on your knees which is a little bit in that vein yeah it was at largo a lot like in the last few years and really funny and title titles a bit you know

leading billy billy crystal had i think it was called a thousand sundays that's right that's right

a narrative yeah yeah he's fantastic john Leguizamo does it, who's really good.

He's another one.

But like the

format is

actually really big in England.

Like Edinburgh, like I went to Edinburgh Fringe Festival a few years ago for the first time.

I had never gone.

And I was like, oh, like.

like a hundred people are doing shows like this simultaneously.

But it's just never really caught on here.

Yeah.

Yeah, because with stand-up specials, I don't know now, but a few years back, it'd be like you'd have your, maybe a current event chunk or you'd have relationship chunk, and then you might have driving in cars.

And now dogs are different from cats, and it would be

sort of an archetypal kind of.

And then when it's one through narrative with all its different tributaries, I don't know, except

fun.

If I wasn't lazy and went to

College of San Mateo,

I would do what you do.

Dummy, dummy alert.

You should, though.

I mean, you, but you have a really, you have a lot of great raw materials for it because you had that whole health

yeah scare in the you know a few years ago like the things that you could talk about are endless that's that's true all right thank you that is true i've distilled it now to just kind of going back to sounds and trying to get people involved with abstraction.

So it's a wholly different course, but I want them like in junior college with my friends who were stone, I would do a Star Trek bid and it would go on for 10 minutes and stuff like that.

You know, I've just got

full circle.

You can do your thing about the hospital and play all your organs.

Just give them all like a little personality.

Hey, man, it was a box bypass.

Two words that don't belong together.

But he got one out of the two arteries, right?

So he's 50-50.

You can't judge it.

Listen.

So, you know,

that'll keep you in the NBA.

I mean,

in a way, Shandling did it to a degree, right?

Like, he was very personal.

It didn't have an arc necessarily, but like, it was just very personal.

That's a, that, that's it.

It's some when it's personal, that's also another thing that attaches.

If it's just abstract jokes, but when it's personal, um,

you know, I don't know who do you like out there right now?

And I was going to ask you about this phenomenon of people

in the last six, eight years

playing stadiums or arenas.

Like it was not so common 20 years ago.

So what is that about?

And would you like to play Madison Square Garden?

I feel like,

like, you know, there's a handful, like,

I'm trying to think, like, Otsuko Okatsuka, who has an HBO special, I think is really, really funny.

I think there's this guy, Chris Fleming, out in L.A., who's from Massachusetts, really, really funny.

I mean, I think like, you know, I love Tignitaro.

Maybe she's in my sort of class.

We sort of

been doing shows.

Yeah, very personal.

But yeah, it's weird.

The stadium thing

feels like it's got to end, right?

I feel bad when I go, I'm going to 10p next month.

And I people are like, oh, Sun Devil Stadium.

I go, no.

I'm playing a theater.

They're like, oh,

I guess a lot of people are playing Sun Devil Stadium.

Like, a lot of people are one.

One guy is playing, I won't say who is, he's playing Nebraska.

They're setting up

the north border of Nebraska.

They have speakers all throughout the state

book, Nebraska.

That's a pretty big state.

I hope wow.

I would play the four corners.

I saw, I think, one or two shows at Madison Square Garden of Comedy, and I was just kind of like, yeah, I don't know.

It doesn't allure me, but I like, like, I filmed my special.

at the beacon at the beacon theater to me that's like the perfect big thing

2700

Would your acts work in a big

10,000-seater?

Is it the same thing or is it too small to listen to?

I have

screens.

I mean, because Nate, Nate is similar in some ways, but I think the screens must do it, I suppose.

Otherwise,

yeah, because

I opened for Jon Stewart years ago at Meriwether Post Pavilion.

That was like 9,000 people.

And it was good.

It's just like you're playing for television.

Right.

It's like the screens.

It's like you're just projecting

a 40-foot screen.

Yeah.

I think it's, it's, it's great for your pocketbook, but it's not, I mean, if money wasn't

any concern or anything, what is your favorite size room just for you having fun?

I mean, what's funny is in LA, I don't know if you guys go over there much, but like,

I think Argo is the best comedy room.

300.

Yeah.

Unbelievable.

And then in New York, the comedy seller is unbelievable.

It's 140 seats in a basement.

Yeah.

I really think that, sorry, just the compression of the energy and it feeds around.

And so for me, especially, because I'll just get into some rhythm.

And if I'm getting that energy, I'm just going to keep riding it, you know, with some character.

And so I do like 100-seater, 80-seater, low-ceilings, you know, for fun.

Yeah, like, like my favorite, probably my favorite thing I've ever done in comedy is like being at the cellar and Chris Rock pops in and you're seeing him in front of 140 people, like work out new ideas.

You're just like, this is the craziest thing.

It's like a fantasy sequence as a comedy fan.

And that's the fun of the cellar.

I think it's wide.

It's about three feet deep.

And like if you go to the restroom in there, I think Colin was on last time I was there.

And I had to go pee.

And I'm like, no, because he'll see me for sure.

It's just distracting.

Like you have to walk right in front of him and everyone.

And it's so small that it's too obvious.

I have a question about that table that comics sit at.

That's always curious to me.

Who's allowed at that table?

That's a good, that's a really good thing.

I think even barely the comics.

Oh, barely.

I was it.

Some of the comics are allowed at the comics table.

No, I mean, I love that.

One table.

It's

yeah, here's what I'll say.

It's one table.

Here's what I'll say.

There's an auxiliary table.

There's an auxiliary table.

There's a spillover table.

Yeah, there's a spillover.

I think that, well, when I was in my 20s and I was playing there, I would get,

you know, it's the early 2000s.

I would get murdered by, you know, Patrice O'Neal and Bill Burr and all those Colin Quinn.

Like, it was all the tough crowd guys, Greg Geraldo.

Yeah.

And they would just...

Rip me to shreds.

I mean, it was just, it was a different thing.

You mean if you sat there or they would just give you shit, that's who was sort of.

yeah if I if I sat there

I love it or even like Jimmy Norton was like that he was in that group and and I love these guys but like back then like because I was like this wide-eyed kid it's funny I remember one time Todd Glass who I know yeah you guys know Todd

brilliant comic funny he came he was visiting me in town and he came and he saw Those guys just rip me apart at the table.

And he couldn't believe it.

Like, I don't think he'd ever seen anything like it and he was like why do they talk to you like that and i go i don't i don't know man this is i'm i'm new i'm young whatever and then he brought up you spade he goes he goes the only other person i saw this happen to was david spade because when he came to la he was immediately really good and young and he got a lot of stuff fast.

And so people like came at him really fast.

Is that true?

I've never seen

the way of the world.

But yeah, that was at the improv.

And the worst part was I was like, they're like, you're doing a movie already?

I go, I guess.

Aren't you supposed to?

Is that,

I mean, I've, I've done five sets.

I've paid my dues.

But the improv was a place where, like, it goes back to you saying you want to write movies, but to do stand-up was good advice because you have to somehow be in front of people doing something because people won't see you when they go, people in my acting class are like, oh, I don't do commercials.

I don't do soap operas i don't do this or tv shows you go if you're good they will find you but you have to be in front of somebody you could find someone good even in a commercial you go or they just catch your eye you have to be out there and to stand up you get to be at the improv if you get on or the store now and the seller obviously is very famous but there's there's always someone even if it's other comedians like they might be writing something you know who'd be good this guy because you're in front of them and so i got stuff because casting people would just drift into the improv and go, oh, I wasn't even here to see this guy.

But they'll just grab somebody and go, oh, they'd fit.

You know, we should.

And that really helped me.

You did not look like a regular stand-up, David.

You know, you had the long surfer blonde hair.

You looked maybe 16 when you were 22.

I watched spade.

When I was in college, I watched your half hour.

Oh, I love it.

Thank you.

It was like a perfect half hour.

You were like, you're probably young with that half hour.

And that was so great because I didn't realize that was one of the reasons I got spots at the improv because

the chalkboard lineup they wrote on the chalkboard in the old days, and it was Kevin Nealon, and Leno, and Seinfeld, and uh, Richard Belzer, and just guys that did not look like me.

And I was just from Arizona, I was 20, and I had long blonde hair.

So, I think Bud Friedman was like, Oh, we need one of you, just you just look different, just get up there and mumble around.

I don't know.

Oh, sure,

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Listen, you know, you're always talking about Quincy, the old show you you watch, but there's also Quince.

I love the reference.

And you're always talking about

the

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Well, you always, when you hear it, you always think it's Quint and you think of the guy in John Jaws.

John Jaws, that's right.

Yeah.

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I do think there's no greater calling card than stand-up.

If they know you wrote it,

they can see you can land a joke.

And in your case, they could see you're an actor.

You could definitely, you know, and you've done movies and stuff.

Sleepwalk with me.

Do you bring that corkboard into your meetings to show how hard you work?

Is that full of Supernight live sketches.

The yellow ones are the funniest.

This is all jokes.

And the pink ones are under construction.

Literally, just, yeah.

Are those your ideas, random ideas?

Yeah, that goes back to when I was 18 years old and I started writing jokes and just putting them on note cards on my wall.

I still do it.

Well, they want me to have a background here, so I'm going to just, I think it looks really good.

Just so you should go back.

It looks like very professional.

Like, I'm so fucking busy.

If you could take a picture of that, send it to me, I'll blow it up.

You know what I mean?

What's funny about that is that it

shows people that it's hard enough to do your act when you see it polished.

This is the shit that you're doing all day to get something that works for 30 seconds.

Like to get anything that works is so hard.

I always say that to people who are starting out in comedy.

It's like, I write four hours of comedy to do an hour of comedy.

And even now,

have a good fear for it.

And before you'd write something, it'd be like a random thing would work.

But now you go, I think in my head, this will work.

I did that last week.

So I have to work on new stuff.

And I'm like, these three will work.

And two didn't.

And I'm like,

why at this point do I still not know for sure what will work?

It's so confounding sometimes.

Mike, have you ever written a bit or a piece of your special or whatever where you kind of thought, well, I don't know if I'm ever going to write something that lands this beautifully, like full circle?

You know, know i think i think like yeah my sleepwalking story is like that and to an extent which is like you know basically 20 years ago i sleepwalked through a second story window at a la quinta in did you fall

i've seen did you fall yeah i no i jumped through the glass okay

And because I had a dream, there was a guided missile headed towards my room, and they told me the missile coordinates were set on me.

And so in my dream, and as it turns out, my life, because I was diagnosed with this thing called RBD, REM behavior disorder, I jumped through the window and I landed on the front lawn of the motel.

I took a fall.

I kept running and I'm running.

I'm slowly realizing I'm on the front lawn of La Quinta Inn in Walla Walla, Washington in my underwear bleeding.

And the true, and the strangest thing is in that moment, I was relieved that I hadn't been hit by the missile.

I was like,

that would have been a disaster.

That story i could see where it's like it's so nobody else goes i've heard that from a lot of i've got one like everybody jumps through a window

especially lakinta but no i could see where you're kind of like that's why you know you did a movie as well right and you did yeah and you put mittens on after that is that the rumor for a period for a period of time i wore a sleeping bag a doctor told me to do this wear a sleeping bag up to my neck and wear mittens so i can't open the sleeping bag so awesome so i did that for years for years i did that did he say

stay away from missiles

he said staying bag as well and maybe think about the holiday inn next time

maybe the first floor i don't trust la quinta so one thing i'm kind of curious about you because i don't know in specific like you in your career like like

When was the first time you knew, okay, I'm going to make enough money.

This is now my job.

After you graduate college, okay, I'm good.

This is what I'm going to do with my life.

I remember I had like

one of those calendars from Staples, and I would, I would go through and I would, in highlighter, if I had a club week booked, you know, it'd be like San Jose Improv and it would be like, and you'd write in parentheses, like, $300.

You know what I mean?

Like $300.

For nine shows, yeah, or whatever.

It'd be like Cincinnati Go bananas, $325.

This is going up.

Yeah, yeah, it's such a small amount of money.

And you would just, and every month I would go, if I can just make $1,325,

I can pay my rent.

And it was probably like, I would say like a year into moving New York, to New York, where I was like, okay.

I think I can do this.

And then.

But were you going in and out of town?

Yeah, I was driving my mom's station wagon that had like 130,000 miles on it.

Two gigs.

A lot of them on the East Coast, thank God, right?

So when you were traveling like that, were you the MC or the opener or co-header?

I was the MC or the feature.

I was the MC or the feature.

And I mean, I've just opened for, I mean, I opened for Hedberg a bunch of times.

I remember I opened for Jake Johansson, who was a brilliant comedy.

Well, from San Francisco.

Oh, my God.

It's like comedy school.

Like Hedberg, you go, fuck, I get to sit in the side and watch this.

It's crazy.

And that was my favorite part of it.

And then I got, and then I got Letterman from doing Montreal Comedy Festival.

I did Montreal Comedy Festival New Faces when I was 23.

And then

Eddie Brill saw me and was like, I think we could work on a set for Letterman.

And I was like, that's crazy.

Like, this is literally between SNL and Letterman.

That's like all I grew up on.

So I was like, this is crazy.

And then it was like a year later.

So 24, you're doing a set on Letterman.

Yeah, it was beneath the crowd at home.

It takes a year to buff out a set,

right?

It does, it takes a long time.

Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.

You have to keep seeing you and go, change that word.

I'd put that sentence at the end, I'd open for the, and you're like, ah, it'll do good.

The fear factor going on of Letterman.

I know.

What was your headspace

behind the curtain?

And you heard, hear Letterman announce you?

How were you?

You were.

I remember that.

That's nerve-wracking.

I remember they came up and they go, go

do you want cue cards with your jokes of your jokes and I go no I think I know the jokes and then my brother Joe was there with me and Joe goes yeah he wants the cue cards like he likes time to and then I swear to God I said my first joke my brain you know you're standing on like this like circle in the middle of the Ed Sullivan theater on the stage

the moment I said one joke I forgot everything in my act.

And I was like, I am so fucked right now.

I am completely and totally fucked.

And I look up at the cue card.

I'm like, there's the other jokes.

What does it mean by says McDonald's?

And you go, oh,

I know what that means.

Folks, I went to McDonald's last night.

We're good.

And was it a travel?

He didn't invite people to the couch, but how good was that set?

Was it good enough or very good?

I think it was good enough.

I think it was like, you know, my agent who was a new agent at the time, like, he hadn't, he was kind of the, he and I were the same age, which is always good.

It's so funny when people, people always ask you, like, how do you get an agent?

It's like, well, try to find someone who has like no career, no clients.

You know what I mean?

No clients.

And now he's like the biggest agent there is.

Like he, you know, Mulaney and Kevin Hart and all these huge

at the time.

He, no, it was Mike Berkwood.

Mike Birkwood.

Okay.

Oh, big.

And, and, but at the time, he had nobody.

And it was me.

He actually, he had me and Greg Greg Geraldo.

That's who we are.

Okay.

No, Greg.

And who was a brilliant comic?

Great comic.

And, and, uh, and he was like, well, I could market you as like the youngest comic to ever do Letterman, which was a lie.

He was like fully a lie.

I can think of lies.

It sounds good.

Yeah, yeah.

So I would go to like Joker's Comedy Club in Dayton, which is like attached to like a strip club and like

sells like dildos and you know dildo straws in the lobby and they

and they would and they would and they would have it well it's like for bachelorette parties and all that kind of thing and then they would uh and then they they would it would be marketed as like the youngest guy to be on letter it was like literally a lie it was just not even funny yeah yeah not funny not even but young but young but young and then uh and then i figured out how to do an hour but it's like it's funny because when you're starting out and i did like god i must have done like a hundred 175 colleges like the one that you and i did in rhode island but like, I,

I mean, you, I feel like you figure out how to do an hour of comedy when they tell you you have to do an hour of comedy.

It's fucking hard.

It's, it's so sure you guys dealt with that.

I had the exact same thing because I was there just for a second when the clubs were just being built, basically.

So I think it was Laps Unlimited in Sacramento, and not everyone had, I didn't have the time to go, well, we'll headline you, but you need to do an hour.

So that's why I got the guitar and did a few things and I had props.

I mean, I did anything to grab time.

You know, so go ahead.

But were you headlining on SNL?

Because I got SNL as a middle.

So when I got enough fame to go, it was gradual, but when I got the headline, I'm like, I don't think I got fucking a headline.

I barely have, I did, my longest middle set was like 35.

And then you got to go to an hour.

And I'm like, an hour or 40, 45 is good.

And they go, yeah, maybe an hour.

We'll put the checks out.

What about when they put the checks out and it stops your acting?

It's tracked.

And you go, wow.

everyone just I remember I did, I had done this joke called Premium Blend on Comedy Science,

and someone saw me on it and booked me at a long-defunct club called the Comedy Spot in Schaumburg, Illinois.

And they just fully just emailed me from my website, hey, can you come headline our club?

I was, you know, you're delusional when you're a kid.

You're just like, oh, absolutely.

Just say yes.

I'll be right.

I'll be there next week.

I show up.

First of all, no one shows up.

No one's heard of me.

This is like no, like completely empty.

It's like a new club.

And I have 25 minutes of material.

I mean, they're literally like, so you do an hour, the opener does 10.

And I was like, okay, sounds good.

I go out.

I'm fully through my act at a half hour.

And that's how, what's weird is that's how you learn how to do crowd work.

You have to.

I was going to say, you got to go to the crowd.

Yeah.

Where you been?

Where are you from?

Yeah.

Did you, did you, when you went on Letterman, did you have special clothes or did you just, did you buy a jacket for the show or did you just wear your old cool clothes

no that was the whole thing is they they they always said you have to wear a suit because dave likes he's like oh he likes the signal look right dave likes when you wear a suit and so i i bought my you know my first suit that's kind of cool though but it's sometimes it's bad because you know i don't think me you or dana would be fully relaxed in a suit when you're always wearing something else on sale.

I go, what is the closest to what I always wear to make everything the same as a club?

Because when i did my first tv spot i walked out and i did like you with the cue cards i was staring at the shiny floor and the crowd and the cameras going i couldn't think of my act i was like holy shit this is what it looks like out here i'm always looking this way

and i'm like deer and headlights and they're like go ahead and go and i'm like oh okay um what else yeah i had a related thing with with you spade because i remember hearing you talk about when you would do Hollywood Minute on SNL and the people

were mad.

Like, because you're making fun of real people.

Yeah, they weren't really.

He started an industry, kind of, you know.

Yeah, like, I remember doing a show on one of those VH1 Talking Heads shows.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And they were like, what do you think of Huey Lewis in the news?

And I'm like, ah, blah, blah, blah.

He sucks.

Whatever the joke was.

And I got an email from like a whole bunch of Huey Lewis heads who were just like, you fucking suck.

Who the fuck are you?

We love Huey Lewis.

What of you?

Who are you?

I got a lot of that because I was new.

It was actually funnier that I was new and making fun of people because it was so out of the blue.

But it was, I always say it was the era of People Magazine where celebrities were so adored and you forget that they're all trash now.

But when

back then to say,

you see this movie?

Yeah, didn't they kind of suck in that?

And everyone's like, yeah.

Wait, what?

Why you just said they were bad in something?

And you're like, yeah, my friends went to that.

It fucking sucks.

Boy.

And you're like, this is how real people talk.

But they went, you know who helped me with hollywood minute bob odenkirk oh oh did he oh it's hilarious that's well that's that's sort of the secret of bob is he's like a silent killer yeah right and he's he's like super nice midwestern and then behind the scenes he's like actually and he's smart and he said maybe frame it like there you know we were trying different things I think it was like, guess what?

You're an idiot.

Like we were doing stuff about celebrities.

And I think it was Michael Bolton.

We know you got long hair in the back, but guess what?

We all know what's happening on top because it was like really thin up here.

Bob, Bob Odenkirk, and I think it was Smeigel and myself, but they had, and I think it was primarily Bob, the grumpy old man that I did on SNL, was the reverse of what you would expect.

Because the guy's like, we didn't have flame-retardant sleepwear.

If you went to bed smoking, you woke up engulfed in flames.

Look at me, what did I do?

I'm a flaming corpse, and I like it.

I love it.

And that was all.

Bob It was such a weird twist on the classic world guy.

All right, Dana, you know, I'm always dragging around.

And

I always got a five-hour energy on me.

I know that it goes.

Yeah, they're either in my sock, in the car, they're somewhere.

You keep them everywhere.

I give them a little slurp.

I don't really shoot the whole thing like some people do on an empty stomach.

I think I eat a little bit.

A couple sips, just like coffee.

Just keep, just keep something going there.

Chug it.

I don't.

I'm actually, yeah,

I don't want that much energy at once.

It's five hours, so I kind of, you know, that's what most people do.

But I sip it overall.

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My wife's in-laws came to visit, and they're they're in their 80s and they're Irish.

And they didn't, they wanted to put them up somewhere.

And so we got an Airbnb

and we went to it.

It was right in the little town and it was spectacular.

It was just amazing.

And they loved it.

And so they had privacy in their time.

They could walk around the little town and we didn't have to put them up here and have someone say, Do you know, could I, where would I get a towel if I needed a towel?

You know, that kind of thing.

Where do you keep your shale?

Could I get a washcloth, please?

But anyway, where do you keep your potato?

They were really

this goes to Ireland, you know.

No, but they're incredibly sweet and they had a great time.

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I just wanted to insert for a second because it's in my head that wearing suits on talk shows.

So, initially, I'd wear kind of a loose shirt, sometimes a t-shirt, a leather jacket, because the host was always older than me.

It was either Leno or Carson or a Lenderman.

And then, when the host became older than me, like Jimmy Fallon in a suit, I can't wear a t-shirt.

I'm older than him.

I'm older than him.

So, then I switched to the suit.

I just wanted to tell you that.

I remember I was so starstruck.

I was opening

for Pablo Pablo Francisco,

Caroline.

Killer.

Unbelievable

comic.

Killer.

And Jimmy Fallon came because they had been in an acting class together.

And that was another one where Jimmy Fallon was there and he came up to me.

And I'm friends with Jimmy, you know, still today.

But like, he came up to me afterwards and he was like, he was like, I, he was like, you're going to do this.

You're going to do this.

Like, you're going to make it.

And I feel like sometimes that kind of thing, like the Victoria Jackson thing and the Fallon thing, like it does kind of get you through the hard it resonates.

Someone real in show business said I was good.

That's right.

Yeah, it's very true.

Yeah.

This is a week.

Jimmy is a week.

I just told me about that.

Yeah.

Jimmy told me about beating you and he thought you were going to make it.

And I said, You really think he's going to make it?

Tell him to make it, man.

Is it crazy?

I just do it.

I do it as a sound.

But

yeah, I was going to ask you just this sort of overarching joke.

Like, where are you now?

Right now, now you're going on tour?

And when does this special come out on Netflix?

Is this the Good Life?

The Good Life is out, I think by the time this comes out, August,

May 26th.

Okay.

Okay.

So

it's May 26th, The Good Life Netflix.

On Netflix.

And then I'm writing my next movie.

My first movie was Sleepwalk with me.

My second movie is called Don't Think Twice.

And I'm writing a third movie, which is like an ensemble comedy that takes place at a wedding about a bunch of old friends.

And I'm just psyched about it.

Like I'm taking some time off from stand-up.

I'm doing a few shows with Mulaney this summer.

Me and Fred Armiston and Nick Croll and Mulaney are doing a bunch of blasts.

Outdoor shows this summer in Canada and Maine.

That's fun.

But yeah, it's just, I feel like you never get to do shows when you headline as a comedian.

You never get to hang with your friends doing shows.

So I love that we're just doing a bunch of shows.

And you're just in the mix there.

You don't necessarily close or open.

You're just going to be.

I'm not closing.

No, I, John, I don't want to close.

It's still stressful for John.

Even though it's fun, he's got to go out there and mop.

John knows what he's doing up there, John's the killer.

Yeah, he's the killer.

So, you're, um, I just want to ask for a second: like, when you write a movie,

do you have like three bulletin boards, first act, second act, third act?

And you start putting up ideas, or you write it, you're writing it like a story computer.

I do, I do two bulletin boards.

I go, I go the story cards, the scene cards, and then the other one is the characters.

I listen to this great, if you're any aspiring screenwriters, I listen to this podcast for years that John August and Craig Mason do called Script Notes.

And it's like 600 episodes about screenwriting.

Craig Mason did The Last of Us.

He wrote The Last of Us and directed it.

John August did Big Fish.

Like, they're just like great writers.

And, you know, I just think like, you know, I try to just think about everything.

The reason I do the character bulletin board is like, I always try to think of everything being in relation to like

what would the character do as opposed to like what would happen to the character.

And would you direct this?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that would be the ultimate creative playboxes or toy box that I can see is to write and direct a movie, get all the toys out there, all the actors, all the stuff.

and then try to visualize your your dream basically totally i mean that's I mean, like when I think about my favorite stuff, it's like, you know, like James L.

Brooks movies, like broadcast news and terms of endearment.

Yeah.

That's good as it kids.

What was that?

Yeah.

I just, you know, Mike Nichols's career, I love, like, I love the idea of just directing a bunch of movies.

And I, yeah, I hope that.

Yeah.

And Kramer versus Kramer or

the graduate or

just dynastic and the sensibility that you're going for, you know.

Great.

Yeah, I would say close to the, yeah, I would say close to the graduate.

Like, I just love movies, and I feel this way about my specials, too.

I love things that have jokes and jokes and jokes, and then they kind of get you when you don't expect it emotionally.

Tootsie.

Tootsie was great.

Big

comedy, but you know, has all when the dad has to sit dust and hopping down at the end and talk to him.

You know what's another one, by the way?

Trains, planes, and automobiles, I feel like is like that.

obviously tommy boy is is that tommy boy is a little well that is true we talked about tommy boy uh recently with the director and uh chris at the end in the sailboat talking to his dad and stuff i mean yeah it had that that was like a late addition like how to wrap him up and how to make it all make sense and it was so important

the lore of tommy boy because that's such an iconic movie for me it's like the lore of you guys talking about how you were just doing it like

on like weekdays, you fly to Canada during SNL and then you'd fly back.

Like, what the hell?

Like, it doesn't make any sense.

That's why we're all crazy.

Sometimes in comedy, I don't know in your particular style, but sometimes money can get in the way, and 30 days to shoot can get in the way.

Some the first point

was such a low budget, 25 or 30 days.

We just didn't, we just kept going, going, going, going.

But But in your case, how, how many pages will your script be?

Yeah.

When you're ready to shoot yourself, it'll be, it'll be a hundred.

It'll be probably a hundred pages and we'll probably shoot it.

Look, they're going to, they'll probably say it'll be 25 days and I'll, I'll just fight and fight to try to get 28, 29 days.

I mean, that's the thing that's so hard to explain about making movies.

It's like, you're just begging for time.

You're just like, please, because you're just bleeding money.

You're going to miss something.

You don't want to miss anything.

You're like, I need one more take on this.

I need one more location Just it would just make everything better.

If we could just,

we need this.

We need it.

Yeah.

Would you have somebody

like do a rough edit after every day, like a really quick digital edit so you can kind of see what you got?

Our editor was this guy named Jeffrey Richmond, who, who actually edits Severance, which is a brilliant show.

And

he would do.

He would do assemblies, but a lot of it would be,

he'd be like, hey, if you can go back back into the kitchen and shoot a thing where she says, like, I don't have the hammer, that would really help us have this whole fucking thing make sense.

That's better than reshoots.

I mean, then you put it.

I think the kitchen set is still around.

You know, you can spread it.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So, so basically, just to sum up on this, it's like, you're busy.

Life is good.

Yeah.

Good life, Netflix.

Right now, for you, creatively, it seems like you're very engaged and excited about this movie and everything you're doing.

Yeah, plenty of work.

I'm excited about the special.

I'm excited about the special.

I'm excited to make my next movie.

And

yeah, I'm lucky.

You know, I live in Brooklyn with my wife and daughter.

She just turned 10.

We had like

a birthday sleepover this weekend.

The girls watched Clueless.

It was crazy.

Oh, is that 90s Clueless?

Yeah.

And St.

Debs, John Hughes, all those movies you can show

as your daughter and the girl, as they hopefully they like them.

Pretty in Pink, all those movies are well she yeah and she's got and she just started watching snl and so like it's it's really fun to watch her like get why it's fun like get why the live aspect of snl is kind of the best part of it that it's just messy and everyone's in a costume or wearing a big nose or whatever and it's just yeah it's it's it's silly and ridiculous it's a lot of pressure but yeah there's not much more fun you're gonna have if you're in a good sketch on snl and it's it's really doing well it's it's pretty buzzy because it's you know it's going out live to a lot of people well thanks Mike it's great to see you again and um thanks for coming on with us

we we enjoyed chatting with you and say hello to john mulaney and nick roll or whoever else you're out there with all right thanks a lot you guys just love love the podcast and uh i i am honored to come on

now i'm gonna go watch the rest of your special amazing amazing thank you all right be well all right i'll see you guys soon take care this has been a presentation of Odyssey.

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Fly in the Wall is executive and produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Jenna Weiss-Berman of Odyssey, and Heather Santoro.

The show's lead producer is Greg Holtzman.