Mike Birbiglia

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Speaker 1 Great dude today, Dana. Mike Berbiglia.

Speaker 2 I'd like to buy a bowl here. Berbiglea, yes.

Speaker 1 Burbigs, known as.

Speaker 2 Burbigs.

Speaker 1 If you don't have time, you say Berbigley and you lose the A. Save time.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Mikey B, by the end of the podcast, we were very good friends.
Mikey B

Speaker 2 has a new special on Netflix, The Good Life.

Speaker 2 He's one of the great storytellers we have out there.

Speaker 2 And he'll deep dive into his methodology about having a theme where he can go kind of serious and funny. It's very interesting.

Speaker 1 Yeah, explains a one-man show. What's the difference between a stand-up set?

Speaker 1 Went to Georgetown, did a comedy contest early on. I did at ASU also.

Speaker 1 So we had that. Oh, we talked about that.
We kicked and scratched about that.

Speaker 1 He's a sleepwalker. We make fun of him for that.

Speaker 2 He does sleepwalk, and there's some danger involved. And it's a long story.
And

Speaker 2 it's something that's been a big part of his zeitgeist material.

Speaker 1 And if you don't know him, he's well-respected comic out there in the New York Circuit.

Speaker 1 Give it a listen and you'll know him more. We like to get people on here that you may not be a household name yet, but very close.
And I'm sure he will be.

Speaker 2 He writes, he directs movies. He did a sleepwalker movie and he's working on a new one.
So he breaks down

Speaker 2 his methods for us.

Speaker 2 And we have a bunch of laughs so stay tuned

Speaker 2 oh whoa whoa whoa wow as i live and breathe yeah

Speaker 2 as i live has anyone ever told you um

Speaker 3 that you kind of when you smile there is like your your long-lost cousin bob odinkirk just in this oh yeah i just oh i get i get it i do get i do get oden kirk sometimes he in a we shot a pilot once for cbs like 15 years ago where he played my brother.

Speaker 2 Oh, okay. So I buy it.
So

Speaker 2 is that the one that didn't go?

Speaker 3 That's the one that didn't go. Yeah.

Speaker 2 We heard that saved your career getting away from Bob.

Speaker 3 Yeah, whatever, whatever happened to him.

Speaker 2 And Nick Kroll.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 1 I like the executive that passed on it. I mean, if it's something like that, you just say yes.

Speaker 1 Even if the show sucks, you go, Yes, let's get all these guys under a deal. And then you start changing it or whatever you want to do.
That's right.

Speaker 2 Sometimes I think that I go, go why are you passing on this package it's too good did you think it was bad because you know i know bob odekirk fairly well and he would be

Speaker 2 he's very comedy is really really important to bob to say the least thank you no no it's great

Speaker 2 oh you guys are so funny

Speaker 2 he's awesome he said the single i we're non-sec with her but since you're smiling and you know him the single maybe funniest thing that's ever been said on the podcast because we knew bob when he was like an underling.

Speaker 2 He was like on SNL and stuff. But I always loved him.
He's a writer, but he's kind of struggling. It's in his book.
He comes on our Zoom and

Speaker 2 Better Call Saul was kind of like, you know, he knew comedians have like, what, what the fuck, Bob Odeker? Now he's like winning enemies as an actor.

Speaker 2 And then when he did nobody or the fighting one, what was that called?

Speaker 1 Yeah, nobody. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And he said to himself, if this thing works, man, you guys are going to be going, what the fuck?

Speaker 2 And everyone did

Speaker 2 star now.

Speaker 2 It's just like, because we know Bob from before, so it's funny. And there's a sequel, Dan.
We're going to let you talk in a sec, but I just want to,

Speaker 1 we don't need to do that.

Speaker 3 No, I, I mean, Odin Kirk, yeah, he came to the filming of the good life

Speaker 3 because he's in town doing Glenn Gary Glenn Ross. And he, he's just like a deeply supportive person of, yeah, I think comedians.
He's just really good to comedian, fellow comedians.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 Good dude overall.

Speaker 3 If I'm not mistaken, he rode living in a van down by the river.

Speaker 1 You are not mistaken. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You are not mistaken.

Speaker 1 Gave one of the biggest gifts to SNL.

Speaker 2 By the way, do you remember when we met? This will be a really quick story. You may not.

Speaker 3 I opened for you in Rhode Island at a college.

Speaker 2 Is that what? That's it. But

Speaker 2 I was on some kind of doing a little mini tour zone. I had a friend of mine, Mark Pitt, it was my opener.
And no one told me that they booked an opener.

Speaker 2 So when we showed up, they go, this guy, Mike, wants to go up. And, you know,

Speaker 2 and you don't come off like a cocky guy. You're kind of unassuming.
I go, oh, no, no, no, what's this fucking guy going to put up? What's he going to do? Do we really need him? I didn't know.

Speaker 2 I didn't know you. Do we really need him? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 So, you know, I'm thinking, oh, yeah, this is going to be a cluster fuck. This guy, I'm not getting good vibes.
So then I'm watching you. Not good vibes.
What the fuck? Well, because

Speaker 2 Mike is unassuming and quiet. And then I'm watching the show.
I'm like, he's building and building. And I went, holy shit, this guy is great.
Yeah. Oh, that's so nice.
I thought it at the time.

Speaker 2 And I do not think I followed you correctly. I think you left a wake because it was clever and stuff.
I made some faces, did some funny sounds. And after

Speaker 2 10 minutes,

Speaker 2 they were done. It was.

Speaker 3 It was like, you know, you absolutely crushed. It was, I don't think, I'd never seen you live, but, you know, I grew up on both of you guys on SNL.

Speaker 3 So I would do in seventh grade, I remember I was doing at school Church Lady, Hans and Franz, George Bush Sr.

Speaker 2 Sorry.

Speaker 3 And by the way, killing.

Speaker 2 Killing.

Speaker 3 Literally doing your characters. No one really knew

Speaker 3 what they were from SNL. So I was just getting, I was like the seventh grade hack.

Speaker 2 So they didn't know it was from SNL. So you're doing your new character in junior high called the church lady like that? Yeah, exactly.
And killing with it? I was killing it. Do you want to do it?

Speaker 2 I'd be fine. I would never.

Speaker 2 I would never.

Speaker 3 It would be the most embarrassing thing.

Speaker 2 That's an easy one to do.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 3 everybody, I mean, that's one of the things about your impressions is that your impressions are so good. Thank you.
I mean, your Biden is so crazy good that essentially

Speaker 3 it's that thing in culture where everyone retrofits their Biden. Yeah.
They all, Everyone goes, now wait a minute.

Speaker 2 It's like walking.

Speaker 1 Everyone turns into a walk-in at a certain point. You go, oh, now I can do it.
It's like a home kit.

Speaker 2 And guess what? And by the way,

Speaker 2 it was the non-sequitur. Guess what?

Speaker 3 And by the way,

Speaker 2 the fact of the matter is, I'm not getting around here. I'm being serious.
I'll knock you out, Jack.

Speaker 2 Get your facts,

Speaker 2 Jack. I'll beat the hell out of you.
Take my wife.

Speaker 3 How would I have known about the cancer? They couldn't have known. They don't do checks for that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 There you go.

Speaker 1 What if they knew about the cancer for four years? It's like another thing. They're like, what is another thing we got to space out?

Speaker 3 No, but okay, so I used to do SNL impressions in seventh grade. And then I remember

Speaker 3 here's the mistake I made. I did John Lovitz's Annoying Man.

Speaker 2 If people don't know the character, he just shows up.

Speaker 3 Yeah, Dennis shows up to Dennis Miller's update, and he just goes, annoying man. He puts his fingers around his eyes and shit.
I did it to this guy in class named Kenny, who was tough.

Speaker 3 And I go, Kenny, annoying man.

Speaker 3 Fucking, I don't know if I can say curse. You can't.
Socked me in the face.

Speaker 2 Shocked me in the face.

Speaker 3 Bleeding in science class, seventh grade. And I never did annoying men again.

Speaker 2 That's a love it spit.

Speaker 2 The name of the character is who the character is. I just love that.

Speaker 1 We did too much of that back then. I think Santa was crazy spoon man.

Speaker 2 And he had a crazy spoon.

Speaker 1 Opera man. We had a lot of man's

Speaker 2 head productions, man.

Speaker 1 I don't think they do it as much anymore like that. You know, just straight up, here's what it is.
What do you think, Mike?

Speaker 3 Just building it out from who the people are.

Speaker 2 Comedy is started because we would have little jingles like, he's massive, massive head wound, hairy, or Lyle, the effeminate, heterosexual.

Speaker 2 And when I was out there, I asked them and they said, oh, we don't do that anymore. Well, I guess it's out of fashion, but to me, it's so funny to lay it all out like that, present it.

Speaker 3 I think my favorite analysis of SNL through the years, because I've watched it since I was a kid, I still watch it, is when Seth Meyers said,

Speaker 3 every single episode since the beginning of time, some of it is great, some of it's terrible, some of it's okay.

Speaker 3 And it's never changed.

Speaker 2 Very true. No, it's never changed.

Speaker 2 That's why we don't have a plethora of other live sketch shows in America, except now they're going to do one in Great Britain, I guess, Saturday Night Live and Jolly Out London.

Speaker 2 So, but yeah, it's not easy, and you're humiliated half the time. You know, you kind of just, it didn't really happen.
You know, it didn't happen. The audience knows it didn't happen.

Speaker 2 Lauren Michaels knows it didn't happen. And you kind of just

Speaker 3 blew it.

Speaker 3 I made a movie. I don't know if you guys know this.

Speaker 3 I made a movie called Don't Think Twice years ago about Keegan, Michael Key and Gillian Jacobs are part of like an improv group where everyone's best friends.

Speaker 3 And then one of them gets cast on like a Saturday Night Live type of show called Weekend Live and then everyone else doesn't.

Speaker 3 And it's about what happens in friendships when people realize they're not going to get the same thing. Do you, did you guys have that when you guys got it?

Speaker 1 Yes, sure.

Speaker 1 That's the whole, that's going back to the improv and seeing people you saw and now you got a little heat on you.

Speaker 1 But I watch people do it before me and after, so it's always just an odd thing. And then you get on SNL, and it's the same thing.

Speaker 1 People get in sketches, and all their stuff gets on that week, and yours does. You go, Hey, good job, go get them.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it is a funny thing, so hard to cover.

Speaker 2 You're like, because you're coming from your stand-up scene and your friends, you know, and then suddenly you're on television and they're not, and it's just kind of awkward.

Speaker 2 You know, Bobby Slayton was like, I can't believe, I can't believe this is on Saturday night life. I can't believe it.

Speaker 2 I can't believe this is on the Saturday night. You, of all people, you

Speaker 2 know, and Seinfeld was always because Jerry had, you know, this spectacular confidence even way before he made it. You know, you just see, I met him in like 1980.

Speaker 2 He was in his suit and he had it all together.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I've always heard that.

Speaker 2 And then when I got on SNL and went to some award show for comedians or something, he goes, he just walked up and goes, congratulations, you made it. And just walked away.
It wasn't no envy, nothing.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 I, yeah, showbiz is like, have you had that experience?

Speaker 2 Because what I was going to ask you is this, and it goes to an overarching theme of how you do your performance when you were coming up through in the clubs.

Speaker 2 Did because a lot of times the blender's going, you got to follow a dick joke guy,

Speaker 2 you know. And so, how did you survive those days before you became

Speaker 3 well? It was funny.

Speaker 3 It's like I remember because I was a writer, you know, when I was in high school, I saw Stephen Wright live at the Kick cape cop melody 10 and i was just like this is the greatest thing i've ever seen in my life you know before that i'd watched snl i'd watched early letterman but then when i saw a comedian live i was like this is crazy and he was an a different comedian like just a perfect linesmith yeah it's like yeah perfect perfect comedian yeah and i was just like i want to you know i want to do this and then i just started writing jokes And I had, you know, notebooks of jokes.

Speaker 3 And then by the time I, when I was in college, I was working the door at the Washington, DC improv.

Speaker 2 And great. And

Speaker 3 yeah, great club.

Speaker 3 When you were a door, they needed to be like Mitch Hedberg, David Tell,

Speaker 3 you know, and Margaret Cho and all these people who are great, you know, Dave, Dave Chappelle and Reg, Brian Regan. And it was great.

Speaker 3 And then when I would work the road after, when I, after I was 22, after college, I was working like hard gigs.

Speaker 3 And I remember like, I would open for these guys and they would, I remember one guy, he just said to me, he goes, you're gonna make it like i would do like not great

Speaker 3 and he goes like you're gonna make it and i was like i literally go why

Speaker 2 why do you think

Speaker 3 it's a great question and and he goes instead of thanks right he goes you're right you write your jokes I was like, what the fuck are you talking about?

Speaker 2 What we all know. That wasn't an information.

Speaker 2 No, there's a lot of, there was a lot of Rode Warriors that did a lot of dick jokes. One guy, I can't remember, but he got, this guy was so hungry, they call him the human tripod, you know,

Speaker 2 you know, in loud bars. And so to survive in that environment, you start to get louder and faster and bluer.
But yeah, you actually craft.

Speaker 1 Maybe he's saying, yeah, you're a crafty writer. You're writing good material.
It will surface because you're, you're, you know, if you get a crowd that listens, I think that's what you need.

Speaker 1 And some people can do it with this sound off.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 the way you write, it's sort of like Nate does right now. He gets a quiet crowd that listens and waits for him.

Speaker 1 And so I think you over time, like I've never heard one negative thing about your actor or anything. And, you know, usually,

Speaker 1 usually it's me kind of starting the

Speaker 2 fan out over you. I was watching.
Saying they're bad.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Just to get the thing rolling. Just like, hey, you know, it's kind of shitty, but I like some of it, but it's just, you know, so I do that.

Speaker 1 But I think you've got a good rep out there. And I think that just grinds through and keeps your career going and and keep getting better and better and better.

Speaker 1 That's a good thing to have because it's hard to stick around in the biz as we all know.

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Speaker 4 Hey, everybody, it's me, Bill Maher.

Speaker 4 If you're not watching or at least listening to Club Random, you're really missing something good and something unique because I don't think we look or sound like any other podcast.

Speaker 4 And that's by design. My life's quest has been to do some kind of show that captured the level of intimacy and the lack of artifice you would see if you saw me off camera talking to a friend.

Speaker 4 No one else in the room, plenty of pot and booze, and nothing planned. This is a show where I get high talking to someone I'm interested in to get to know and to laugh with.

Speaker 4 It's not an interview, it's wild. And I'm having a ball, and the guests are having a ball, and you will too.

Speaker 4 So please follow Club Random with Bill Maher and see new episodes every Monday on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 I'd like to make observation about that in a minute, but first I just want to know about your first set because that everyone remembers their first set.

Speaker 3 So,

Speaker 3 oh, you know, it's funny. I just realized this.
First set was. Funniest person on campus contest at Georgetown University.

Speaker 2 I love it.

Speaker 3 Nick Kroll was in the contest with me. Great comic.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 the host was Victoria Jackson.

Speaker 2 Really? That's a better story than I thought. Love it.
Love it. You're so funny, Maria.
You're cute. You're cute and funny out there.

Speaker 2 That's who she is. I mean, she's.

Speaker 3 I swear to God, I came off stage. We love her.
I came off stage and I, you know, it was like me doing a big character. There was a musical number.
It was

Speaker 2 bananas. Oh, you know the whole big giant thing back then.
Yeah, good job.

Speaker 3 And I walked off stage and Victoria Jackson, who, you know, I idolized watching SNL. Yes.
And she goes, you're going to be a comedian.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 3 she was literally the first person in my life to tell me I'm going to be a comedian. I was like, I can't believe it.

Speaker 1 But coming from someone famous, that means a lot.

Speaker 3 It was a crazy experience because she, on SNL, she would obliterate.

Speaker 3 Like, she would kill in Sketch.

Speaker 2 She was so hard.

Speaker 2 Super cute.

Speaker 2 So unique. I've said this before, but when I was in the 17th floor, and I think I just gotten the show, and Victoria was there, and Lauren Michaels came up to me because he just had talked to her.

Speaker 2 And he said, Dana,

Speaker 2 will you talk to Victoria and try to figure out what that's all about?

Speaker 2 Because you're watching. What does that mean? There's something funny.
She's playing a character, you know, but she wasn't. You know, and that purity bounced off the screen in SNL.

Speaker 2 This innocence, this true innocence about her. But

Speaker 2 so, what I was going to observe about,

Speaker 2 because I like we have stand-ups on this show, and as a stand-up, I'm pretty much good with a great stand-up for about 15 minutes, you know,

Speaker 2 as Spade said at the fifth day. I get the general gist, you know, we know how the,

Speaker 2 but with you, and there's others, but you're

Speaker 2 it's personal. And so, there's a through line and a story.

Speaker 2 I know, and I want to ask you about stand-up versus one-man show and the, you know, the blurring of that, but I found myself really compelled of this idea when you tell maybe a story to your daughter, you make up a story, then she pauses and says, and then what happens?

Speaker 2 And so you, you subtly ride this narrative. And so, and then you go for this moment

Speaker 2 where you just land a somber moment about your dad. You just say he felt sad and it just sits there.
And I'm like,

Speaker 2 so that you, and you're also balls out funny all the time so it's very interesting i found myself like i'm literally going to finish it i only got halfway through oh wow today because thanks man i want to know what happens so it's uh anyway that's all i had to observe i'll let you guys talk now well that that's that that's definitely the the goal like what happened was is i when i was in school i was studying film and and plays, like how to write screenwriting and playwriting.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I thought for sure when I got out of school, like being a delusional 20-year-old, I was like, I'm going to be a screenwriter. Of course, everyone wants me to write films.

Speaker 2 Hall of Halloween.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. They're all waiting.

Speaker 3 Everyone's just looking for scripts.

Speaker 2 Hurry, get out of school. Yeah.
And so I.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 3 then the closer I got to graduation, the more I would talk to people in the business or adjacent to the business.

Speaker 3 And they're like, yeah, no one wants movie scripts at all, especially not from you who has no credits or credibility.

Speaker 3 And someone said to me, and I, I, I, and I thought it was good advice, they were like, you should just keep doing stand-up because, you know, you're working the door and you're, you're, you're pretty good at it.

Speaker 3 And then eventually you'll be able to make movies. And so along the way,

Speaker 3 I started kind of merging playwriting and stand-up into a thing. And so when I think of the shows, I think of them kind of like what you're describing, like movies.

Speaker 3 Like in a movie, you have to have the the scene lead to the next scene, so then the next scene, so then the next scene. And if it doesn't have that propulsion, you just shut it off.

Speaker 2 Like

Speaker 2 people fade out. You're surviving laugh to laugh then, the ultimate opposite of this.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. But then I go, you know, like, I think where I met Spade was over at the comedy seller one night.

Speaker 3 like maybe a year or two ago. And that's where I work out the joke part of it.
Cause like the joke, because that's important too.

Speaker 3 Like you have to have the jokes work in isolation with audience members that aren't there to see you.

Speaker 3 That's the goal.

Speaker 2 That's true.

Speaker 1 And then because it's different than stand-up, because stand-up is literally like you're, if you go 30 seconds without some sort of laugh, you're like, what's going on?

Speaker 1 But if you have a one-man show and you're doing it like a story, you can have ups and downs and parts that are sort of dramatic. Is that what you're saying? Kind of,

Speaker 3 yeah.

Speaker 3 And like, you know, I was lucky about, I don't know, 15 years ago oh 17 years ago i met up with ira glass who's the host of this american life on public radio and and he kind of sort of he kind of taught me how to shape individual like eight to 10 minute stories and i was doing this moth storytelling series in new york and so over the years i just got i got kind of hooked on this idea of like oh if you can have the jokes work and the story work and then and the larger show work then like it's kind of a magical thing who else is doing what you're doing of your generation i mean i know you you knew john mulaney or you know john mulaney and nick roll and stuff yeah is anyone else because it seems like you kind of stick out in this way um right now well if you consider yourself as a stand-up but but you're also a one-man show guy so well i produced uh alex edelman's show which is called just for us um

Speaker 3 And it's kind of, it's definitely kind of in that vein. I mean, like,

Speaker 3 Jaclyn Novak, I produced Jaclyn Novak's show, Get On Your Knees, which is a little bit in that vein. Yeah, it was at Largo a lot, like in the last few years, and really funny.

Speaker 2 And title, title's a bit, you know,

Speaker 2 leading.

Speaker 2 Billy Crystal had a, I think it was called A Thousand Sundays.

Speaker 2 That's right. That's right.
Billy Crystal does it really well. He's had a narrative.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. He's fantastic.
John Leguizamo does it, who's really good.

Speaker 3 He's another one. But like the

Speaker 3 format is

Speaker 3 actually really big in England. Like, like Edinburgh, like, I went to Edinburgh Fringe Festival a few years ago for the first time.
I had never gone, and I was like, oh, like

Speaker 3 a hundred people are doing shows like this simultaneously. But it's just never really caught on here.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because with stand-up specials, I don't know now, but a few years back, it'd be like you'd have your, maybe a current event chunk, or you'd have relationship chunk, and then you might have driving in cars.

Speaker 2 And now dogs are different from cats. And it would be

Speaker 2 sort of an archetypal kind of, and then when it's one through narrative with all its different tributaries i don't know exactly it sounds fun if i wasn't lazy and and went to uh uh college of san mateo yeah i would do what you do dummy dummy alert you should though i mean you and you but you have a really you have a lot of great raw materials for it because you had that whole health

Speaker 2 yeah scare in the you know a few years ago like the things that you could talk about are endless that's that's true all right thank you that is true i've distilled it now to just kind of going back to sounds and trying to get people involved with abstraction so it's a wholly different course but i want them like in junior college with my friends who were stone i would do a star trek bid and it would go on for 10 minutes and stuff like that you know i've just gone i've gone full circle

Speaker 1 you can do your thing about the hospital and play all your organs

Speaker 2 just give them all like a little personality hey man it was a bot bypass Two words that don't belong together. But he got one out of the two arteries, right? So he's 50-50.
You can't judge it. Listen.

Speaker 1 That'll keep you in the NBA.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 3 in a way, Shandling did it to a degree, right? Like he was very personal.

Speaker 3 It didn't have an arc necessarily, but like it was just very personal.

Speaker 2 That's it.

Speaker 2 When it's personal, that's also another thing that attaches. If it's just abstract jokes, but when it's personal,

Speaker 2 you know, I don't know who do you like out there right now. And I was going to ask you about this phenomenon of people

Speaker 2 in the last six, eight years playing stadiums or arenas. Like it was not so common 20 years ago.
So what is that about? And would you like to play Madison Square Garden?

Speaker 3 I feel like,

Speaker 3 like, you know, there's a handful, like,

Speaker 3 I'm trying to think, like, Otsuko Akatsuka, who has an HBO special, special, I think is really, really funny.

Speaker 3 I think this, there's this guy, Chris Fleming, out in LA, who's from Massachusetts, really, really funny. I mean, I think, like, you know, I love Tignitaro.
Maybe she's in my sort of class.

Speaker 3 Uh, we sort of personal,

Speaker 2 yeah, very personal.

Speaker 3 But, um, yeah, it's weird. The stadium thing

Speaker 3 feels like it's got to end, right?

Speaker 1 I feel bad when I go, I'm going to 10p next month. And I have people like, oh, Sun Devil Stadium.
I go,

Speaker 2 I'm playing a theater. They're like, oh,

Speaker 2 I guess a lot of people are playing Sun Devil Stadium.

Speaker 1 Like, a lot of people are one.

Speaker 2 One guy is playing, I won't say who is, he's playing Nebraska. They're setting up

Speaker 2 the north border of Nebraska. They have.
They have speakers all throughout the state. So he's booked Nebraska.
That's a pretty big state. I hope he's wow.

Speaker 1 I would play the four corners.

Speaker 3 I saw, I think, one or two shows at Madison Square Garden of Comedy, and I was just kind of like, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 It doesn't allure me, but

Speaker 3 I filmed my special

Speaker 3 at the Beacon Theater. To me, that's like the perfect big venue.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's 2,700.

Speaker 1 Would your acts work in a big

Speaker 1 10,000-seater? Is it the same thing or is it too small to listen to?

Speaker 2 I think with screens, I mean, because

Speaker 2 Nate is similar in some ways, but I think the screens must do it, I suppose. Otherwise,

Speaker 2 yeah, because

Speaker 3 I opened for Jon Stewart years ago at Meriwether Post Pavilion. That was like 9,000 people.
And it was good. It's just like you're playing for television.
Yeah. Right.
It's like the screens.

Speaker 3 It's like you're just projecting yourself.

Speaker 3 a 40-foot screen.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I think

Speaker 2 it's great for your pocketbook, but it's not, I mean, if money wasn't

Speaker 2 any concern or anything, what is your favorite size room just for you having fun?

Speaker 3 I mean, what's funny is in LA, I don't know if you guys go over there much, but like

Speaker 2 I think Largo is the best comedy room. 300.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Unbelievable. And then in New York, the comedy seller is unbelievable.
It's 140 seats in a basement.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I really think that, sorry, just the compression of the energy and it feeds around. And so for me, especially, because I'll just get into some rhythm.

Speaker 2 And if I'm getting that energy, I'm just going to keep riding it, you know, with some character. And so I do like 100-seater, 80-seater, low-ceilings, you know, for fun.

Speaker 3 Yeah, like, like my favorite, probably my favorite thing I've ever done in comedy is like being at the cellar and Chris Rock pops in.

Speaker 3 and you're seeing him in front of 140 people like work out new ideas. You're just like, this is the craziest thing.
It's like a fantasy sequence as a comedy fan.

Speaker 1 And that's the fun of the cellar. I think it's wide.
It's about three feet deep. And like if you go to the restroom in there, I think Colin was on last time I was there.
And I had to go pee.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, no, because he'll see me for sure. It's just distracting.
Like you have to walk right in front of him and everyone. And it's so small that it's too obvious.

Speaker 1 I have a question about that table that comics sit at. That's always curious to me.
Who's allowed at that table?

Speaker 3 That's a good, that's a really good idea.

Speaker 3 I think even barely the comics.

Speaker 2 Oh, barely.

Speaker 3 I was at some of the comics are allowed at the comics table. No, I mean, I love that.

Speaker 3 It's,

Speaker 3 yeah, here's what I'll say: it's one table.

Speaker 2 Here's what I'll say.

Speaker 3 There's an auxiliary table.

Speaker 2 There's an auxiliary table. There's a spillover table.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's a spillover.

Speaker 3 I think that, well, when I was in my 20s and I was playing there, I would get,

Speaker 3 you know, it's the early 2000s. I would get murdered by, you know, Patrice O'Neal and Bill Burr and all those Colin Quinn.
Like, it was all the tough crowd guys, Greg Geraldo. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And they would just rip me to shreds. I mean, it was just, it was a different thing.

Speaker 1 You mean if you sat there or they would just give you shit? That's who was sort of.

Speaker 3 Yeah, if I, if I sat there,

Speaker 2 I love it.

Speaker 3 Or even like Jimmy Norton was like that. He was in that group.
And, and I love these guys, but like back then, like, because I was like this wide-eyed kid, it's funny.

Speaker 3 I remember one time Todd Glass, who I know, yeah, you guys know Todd, he's a brilliant comic.

Speaker 3 Funny, he came, he was visiting me in town, and he came and he saw those guys just rip me apart at the table. Like, and he couldn't believe it.
Like, I don't think he'd ever seen anything like it.

Speaker 2 And he was like, Why do they talk to you like that?

Speaker 3 And I go, I don't, I don't know, man. This is, I'm, I'm new, I'm young, whatever.
And then he brought up you, Spade.

Speaker 3 He goes, he goes, the only other person I saw this happen to was David Spade, because when he came to LA, he was immediately really good and young, and he got a lot of stuff fast.

Speaker 3 And so people like came at him really fast. Is that true?

Speaker 2 I've never seen it.

Speaker 1 That's the way of the world. But yeah, that was at the improv.
And the worst part was I was like, They're like, you're doing a movie already? I go, I guess. Aren't you supposed to?

Speaker 2 Is that,

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 1 I've done five sets. I've I've paid my dues.

Speaker 1 But the improv is a place where, like, it goes back to you saying you want to write movies, but to do stand-up was good advice because you have to somehow be in front of people doing something

Speaker 1 because people won't see you when they go, people in my acting class are like, oh, I don't do commercials. I don't do soap operas.
I don't do this or TV shows. You go.

Speaker 1 If you're good, they will find you, but you have to be in front of somebody. You could find someone good even in a commercial.
You go, or they just catch your eye. You have to be out there.

Speaker 1 And to stand up, you get to be at the improv if you get on or the store now.

Speaker 1 And the seller obviously is very famous, but there's always someone, even if it's other comedians, like they might be writing something.

Speaker 1 You know who'd be good, this guy, because you're in front of them. And so I got stuff because casting people just drift into the improv and go, oh, I wasn't even here to see this guy.

Speaker 1 But they'll just grab somebody and go, oh, they'd fit. You know, we should, and that really helped me.

Speaker 2 You did not look look like a regular stand-up david you know you had the long surfer blonde hair you looked maybe 16 when you were 22.

Speaker 3 i watched spade when i was in college i watched your half hour and oh i love it thank you it was like a perfect half hour you were like yeah probably young with that

Speaker 1 was so great because i didn't realize that was one of the reasons i got spots at the improv because The chalkboard lineup, they wrote on the chalkboard in the old days, and it was Kevin Nealon and Leno and Seinfeld and Richard Belzer and just guys that did not look like me and I was just from Arizona I was 20 and I had long blonde hair so I think Bud Friedman was like oh we need one of you just you just look different just get up there and mumble around I don't know sure

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Speaker 2 I do think there's no greater calling card than stand-up. If they know you wrote it,

Speaker 2 they can see you can land a joke. And in your case, they could see you're an actor.
You could definitely, you know, and you've done movies and stuff. Sleepwalk with me.

Speaker 1 Do you bring that corkboard into your meetings to show how hard you work?

Speaker 2 Is that full of Cinder Night Live sketches?

Speaker 1 The yellow ones are the funniest. This is all jokes.
And the pink ones are under construction.

Speaker 2 Literally, just, yeah.

Speaker 2 Are those your ideas, random ideas?

Speaker 3 Yeah, that goes back to when I was 18 years old and I started writing jokes and just putting them on note cards on my wall. I still do it.

Speaker 2 Well, they want me to have a background here, so I'm going to do it. I think it looks very

Speaker 2 short.

Speaker 1 It looks like very professional.

Speaker 2 Like, I'm so fucking busy.

Speaker 2 If you could take a picture of that, send it to me, I'll blow it up.

Speaker 1 You know what's funny about that is that it

Speaker 1 shows people that it's hard enough to do your act when you see it polished. This is the shit that you're doing all day to get something that works for 30 seconds.

Speaker 1 Like to get anything that works is so hard.

Speaker 3 No, it's, I always say that to people who are starting out in comedy.

Speaker 2 It's like, I write four hours of comedy to do an hour of comedy.

Speaker 2 And even now,

Speaker 1 have a good feel for it. And before you'd write something, it'd be like a random thing would work.
But now you go, I think in my head, this will work. I did that last week.

Speaker 1 So I have to work on new stuff. And I'm like, these three will work.
And two didn't.

Speaker 2 And I'm like,

Speaker 1 why at this point do I still not know for sure what will work? It's so confounding sometimes.

Speaker 2 Mike, have you ever written a bit or a piece of your special or whatever where you kind of thought, well, I don't know if I'm ever going to write something that lands this beautifully, like full circle, you know?

Speaker 3 I think like, yeah, my sleepwalking story is like that to an extent, which is like,

Speaker 3 you know, basically 20 years ago, I sleepwalked through a second story window at a La Quinta Inn.

Speaker 2 Did you fall?

Speaker 2 I've seen it. Did you fall?

Speaker 3 Yeah, no, I jumped through the glass.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 And because I had a dream, there was a guided missile headed towards my room. And they told me the missile coordinates were set on me.

Speaker 3 And so in my dream, and as it turns out, my life, because I was diagnosed with this thing called RBD, REM behavior disorder, I jumped through the window and I landed on the front lawn of the motel.

Speaker 3 I took a fall. I kept running and I'm running.
I'm slowly realizing I'm on the front lawn of La Quinta Inn in Walla Walla, Washington in my underwear bleeding. And

Speaker 3 the strangest thing is in that moment, I was relieved that I hadn't been hit by the missile.

Speaker 3 I was like, so I could see that would have been a disaster.

Speaker 2 That story I could see where it's like, it's so, nobody else goes, I've heard that from a lot of people. I've got one like everybody jumps through a window at a hate, especially La Quinta.

Speaker 2 But no, I could see where you're kind of like, that's why, you know, you did a movie as well, right? And you did,

Speaker 1 and you put mittens on after that? Is that the rumor?

Speaker 3 For a period of time, I wore a sleeping bag. A doctor told me to do this, wear a sleeping bag up to my neck and wear mittens so I can't open the sleeping bag.

Speaker 2 So awesome. So I did that for years.

Speaker 3 For years I did that.

Speaker 2 Did he say

Speaker 1 stay away from missiles?

Speaker 3 He said stay away from the mission.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's from the sleeping bag as well.

Speaker 2 And maybe think about the holiday in next time.

Speaker 2 Maybe the first floor. I don't trust La Quinta.
So one thing I'm kind of curious about you, because I don't know in specific, like you in your career, like, like,

Speaker 2 when was the first time you knew, okay, I'm going to make enough money. This is now my job.
After you graduate college, okay, I'm good. This is what I'm going to do with my life.

Speaker 3 I remember I had like

Speaker 3 one of those calendars from Staples, and I would, I would go through and I would in highlighter.

Speaker 3 If I had a club week booked, you know, it'd be like San Jose Improv and it would be like, and you'd write in parentheses, like $300.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? Like $300

Speaker 2 for nine shows, yeah, or whatever.

Speaker 3 It'd be like Cincinnati Go Bananas, $325.

Speaker 1 Like this is going up.

Speaker 3 such, yeah, yeah, it's such a small amount of money.

Speaker 3 And you would just, and every month I would go, if I can just make thirteen hundred and twenty five dollars i can pay my rent and and it was probably like i would say like a year into moving new york to new york where i was like okay i can i think i can do this and then uh but were you going in and out of town yeah i was driving my mom's station wagon that had like 130 000 miles on it to gigs a lot of them on the east coast thank god right

Speaker 2 so when you were traveling like that were you the MC or the opener or co-header?

Speaker 3 I was the MC or the feature. I was the MC or the feature.
And I mean, I've just opened for, I mean, I opened for Hedberg a bunch of times.

Speaker 3 I remember I opened for Jake Johansson, who was a brilliant comedy.

Speaker 2 Well, from San Francisco. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 It's like comedy school like Hedberg. You go, fuck,

Speaker 1 I get to sit in the side and watch this.

Speaker 3 It's crazy.

Speaker 3 And that was my favorite part of it. And then I got, and then I got Letterman from doing Montreal Comedy Festival.
I did Montreal Comedy Festival in on New Faces when I was 23.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 3 Eddie Brill saw me and was like, I think we could work on a set for Letterman. And I was like, that's crazy.
Like, this is literally between SNL and Letterman, that's like all I grew up on.

Speaker 3 So I was like, this is crazy. And then it was like a year later.

Speaker 2 So 24, you're doing a set on Letterman.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it was banana.

Speaker 1 And for the crowd at home, it takes a year to buff out a set.

Speaker 1 Right? It does.

Speaker 2 It takes a long time. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 For sure. They have to keep seeing you and go, change that word.
I'd put that sentence at the end. I'd open for the, and you're like,

Speaker 2 it'll do good.

Speaker 1 And then the fear factor going on of Letterman.

Speaker 2 I know. What was your headspace

Speaker 2 behind the curtain and you hear Letterman announce you? How were you? You were.

Speaker 3 I remember that. That's nerve-wracking.

Speaker 3 I remember they came up and they go,

Speaker 3 do you want cue cards with your jokes? Of your jokes?

Speaker 3 And I go, no, I think I know the jokes. And then my brother Joe was there with me.
And Joe goes, Yeah, he wants the cue cards. Like he likes time to, and then I swear to God, I said my first joke.

Speaker 3 My brain, you know, you're standing on like this like circle in the middle of the Ed Sullivan theater on the stage.

Speaker 3 The moment I said one joke, I forgot everything in my act. And I was like, I am so fucked right now.
I am completely and totally fucked. And I look up at the cue card.

Speaker 3 I'm like, there's the other jokes.

Speaker 1 What does it mean by says McDonald's?

Speaker 2 And you go, oh

Speaker 3 i know what that means folks i went to mcdonald's last night we're good and was it a travel you didn't invite people to the couch but how good was that set was it good enough or very good i think it was good enough i think it was like you know my agent who was a new agent at the time like he hadn't he was kind of this he and i were the same age which is always good it's so funny when people People always ask you, like, how do you get an agent?

Speaker 3 It's like, well, try to find someone who has like no career. No clients, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 No clients.

Speaker 3 And now he's like the biggest agent there is. Like, he, you know, Mulaney and Kevin Hart and all these huge

Speaker 2 at the time. He, no, it was Mike Berkworth.
Mike Berkworth. Okay.

Speaker 1 Oh, big.

Speaker 3 And, but at the time, he had nobody. And it was me.
He actually had me and Greg Geraldo. That's who we are.
Okay. No, Greg.
And who was a brilliant comic? Great comic.

Speaker 3 And, and, uh, and he was like, well, I could market you as like the youngest comic to ever do Letterman, letterman which was a lie she's like fully a lie

Speaker 3 i can think of lies so it sounds good and you yeah yeah so i would go to like joker's comedy club in dayton which is like attached to like a strip club and like he sells like dildos and you know dildo straws in the lobby and they

Speaker 3 and they would and they would and they would have it was like for bachelorette parties and those kind of things and then they would uh and then they they would it would be marketed as like the youngest guy to be on letterman it was was like literally a lie.

Speaker 3 It was just like

Speaker 2 young.

Speaker 3 But young, but young. And then

Speaker 3 I figured out how to do an hour, but it's like, it's funny because when you're starting out, and I did like, God, I must have done like 175 colleges like the one that you and I did in Rhode Island.

Speaker 3 But like, I,

Speaker 3 I mean, you, I feel like you figure out how to do an hour. of comedy when they tell you you have to do an hour of comedy.

Speaker 2 It's like hard.

Speaker 3 It's so you guys dealt with it.

Speaker 2 I had the exact same thing because I was there just for a second when the clubs were just being built, basically.

Speaker 2 So I think it was Laps Unlimited Sacramento and not everyone had, I didn't have the time to go, well, we'll headline you, but you need to do an hour.

Speaker 2 So that's why I got the guitar and did a few things and I had props. I mean, I did anything to grab time, you know, so go ahead.

Speaker 1 But were you headlining on SNL? Because I got SNL as a middle. So when I got enough fame to go, it was gradual, but when I got to headline, I'm like, I don't think I got fucking headline.

Speaker 1 I barely have, I did. My longest middle set was like 35.

Speaker 1 And then you got to go to an hour. And I'm like, an hour or 40, 45 is good.
And they go, yeah, maybe an hour. We'll put the checks out.

Speaker 1 What about when they put the checks out and it stops your acting? It's tracked.

Speaker 2 And you go, wow.

Speaker 1 Everyone just.

Speaker 3 I remember I did, I had done this joke called Premium Blend on Comedy Science.

Speaker 3 And someone saw me on it and booked me at a long-defunct club called the Comedy Spot in Schomburg, Illinois. And they just fully just emailed me from my website, hey, can you come headline our club?

Speaker 3 I was, you know, you're delusional when you're a kid. You're just like, oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2 Just say yes. I'll be right.

Speaker 3 I'll be there next week.

Speaker 3 I show up. First of all, no one shows up.
No one's heard of me. This is like, no, like completely empty.
It's like a new club. And I have 25 minutes of material.

Speaker 3 I mean, they're literally like, so you do an hour, the opener does 10. And I was like, okay, sounds good.
I go out. I'm fully through my act at a half hour.

Speaker 3 And that's how, what's weird is that's how you learn how to do crowd work.

Speaker 1 You have to. I was going to say, you got to go to the crowd.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Where you been? Where are you from? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Did you, when you went on Letterman, did you have special clothes or did you just, did you buy a jacket for the show or did you just wear your cool coat?

Speaker 3 No, that was the whole thing is they, they, they always said you have to wear a suit because Dave likes, he's like old.

Speaker 2 He likes the silent look, right?

Speaker 3 Dave likes when you wear a suit. And so I bought my, you know, my first suit.

Speaker 1 That's kind of cool, though. But sometimes it's bad because,

Speaker 1 you know, I don't think me or Dana would be fully relaxed in a suit when you're always wearing something else.

Speaker 1 I go, what is the closest to what I always wear to make everything the same as a club? Because when I did my first TV spot, I walked out and I did like you with the cue cards.

Speaker 1 I was staring at the shiny floor and the crowd and the cameras going, I couldn't even think of my act. I was like, holy shit, this is what it looks like out here? I'm always looking this way.

Speaker 1 And then I'm like, dear and headlights. And they're like, go ahead and go.
And I'm like, oh, okay.

Speaker 1 What else? Yeah.

Speaker 3 I had a related thing with USB because I remember hearing you talk about when you would do Hollywood Minute on SNL and the people

Speaker 3 were mad. Like, because you're making fun of real people.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they really got it for me. He started an industry, kind of, you know.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Like, I remember doing a show on one of those VH1 Talking Heads shows. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And they were like, what do you think of Huey Lewis in the news? And I'm like, ah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3 He sucks, whatever the joke was. And I got an email from like a whole bunch of Huey Lewis heads who were just like, you fucking suck.

Speaker 3 Who the fuck are you?

Speaker 3 We loved Huey Lewis. What of you? Who are you?

Speaker 1 I got a lot of that because I was new. It was actually funnier that I was new.
and make fun of people because it was so out of the blue.

Speaker 1 But it was, I always say it was the era of People magazine where celebrities were so adored and you forget that they're all trash now. But when back then to say,

Speaker 1 you see this movie,

Speaker 1 didn't they kind of suck in that?

Speaker 2 And everyone's like, wait, what?

Speaker 1 Why would you just said they were bad in something? And you're like, yeah, my friends went to that. It fucking sucks.
Boy. And you're like, this is how real people talk.

Speaker 1 But they went, Ian, you know who helped me with Hollywood Minute? Bob Odenkirk.

Speaker 2 Oh, did he? Oh, it's hilarious.

Speaker 3 Well, that's sort of the secret of Bob is he's like a silent killer. Yeah.
And he's, he's like super nice Midwestern. And then behind the scenes, he's like, actually.

Speaker 1 And he's smart. And he said, maybe frame it like, you know, we were trying different things.
I think it was like, guess what? You're an idiot. Like we were doing stuff about celebrities.

Speaker 1 And I think it was Michael Bolton. We, you know, we know you got long hair in the back, but guess what? We all know what's happening on top.
Because it was like really thin up here.

Speaker 2 Bob, Bob Odenkirk, and I think it was Smigel and myself, but they had, and I think it was primarily Bob, the grumpy old man that I did on SNL.

Speaker 2 Yeah, was the reverse of what you would expect because the guy's like, We didn't have flame-retardant sleepwear. If you went to bed smoking, you woke up engulfed in flames.
Look at me, whoop-de-doo.

Speaker 2 I'm a flaming corpse, and I can, I love it. And that was all Bob was such a weird twist on the classic old guy.

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Speaker 2 I just wanted to insert for a second because it's in my head that wearing suits on talk shows.

Speaker 2 So initially I'd wear kind of a loose shirt, sometimes a t-shirt, leather jacket, because the host was always older than me. It was either Leno or Carson or Letterman.

Speaker 2 And then when the host became older than me, like Jimmy Fallon in a suit, I can't wear a t-shirt. I'm older than him.

Speaker 2 So then I switched to the suit. I just want to tell you that.

Speaker 3 I remember I was so starstruck. I was opening

Speaker 3 for Pablo Francisco.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's Caroline. That was a killer.

Speaker 3 Unbelievable. Murder

Speaker 3 killer. And Jimmy Fallon came because they had been in an acting class together.

Speaker 3 And it, and that was another one where, like, Jimmy Fallon was there and he came up to me.

Speaker 3 And I'm friends with Jimmy, you know, still today, but like, he came up to me afterwards and he was like, he was like, I, he was like, you're going to do this. You're going to do this.

Speaker 3 Like, you're going to make it. You know, and I feel like sometimes that kind of thing, like the Victoria Jackson thing and the Fallon thing, like it does kind of get you through the hard.

Speaker 1 It resonates. Someone real in show business said I was good.

Speaker 2 That's right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's it's very true.

Speaker 2 Yeah. This is a week ago.
Jimmy was a week ago about that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Jimmy told me about beating you and thought you were going to make it. And I said, you really think he's going to make it?

Speaker 2 Tell me, make it, man. It's a crazy.

Speaker 2 I just do it. I do it as a sound.

Speaker 2 It's a crazy race.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 yeah, I was going to ask you just this sort of overarching joke. Like, where are you now? Right now? And now you're going on tour? And when does this special come out on Netflix?

Speaker 3 Is this the good life?

Speaker 3 The good life is out,

Speaker 3 I think by the time this comes out, August,

Speaker 3 May 26th. Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 it's May 26th, The Good Life Netflix.

Speaker 3 On Netflix. And

Speaker 3 then I'm writing my next movie. My first movie was Sleepwalk with me.
My second movie is called Don't Think Twice.

Speaker 3 And I'm writing a third movie, which is like an ensemble comedy that takes place at a wedding about a bunch of old friends. And I'm just psyched about it.
Like, I'm taking some time off from stand-up.

Speaker 3 I'm doing a few shows with Mulaney this summer. Me and Fred Armiston and Nick Kroll and Mulaney are doing a bunch of

Speaker 3 outdoor shows this summer in Canada and Maine.

Speaker 1 It's fun.

Speaker 3 But yeah, it's just, I feel like you never get to do shows when you headline as a comedian. You never get to hang with your friends doing shows.

Speaker 3 So we're, I love that we're just doing a bunch of shows.

Speaker 2 And you're just in the mix there. You don't necessarily close or open.
You're just going to be.

Speaker 3 I'm not closing. No, John, I don't want to close.

Speaker 2 It's still stressful for John.

Speaker 1 Even if it's fun, he's got to go out there and mop.

Speaker 2 John knows what he's doing up there. John's a killer.
Yeah, he's a killer.

Speaker 2 So you're, I just want to ask for a second, like, when you write a movie, do you have like three bulletin boards, first act, second act, third act?

Speaker 2 You start putting up ideas, or you write it, you're writing it like a story period.

Speaker 3 I do, I do two bulletin boards. I go, I go the story cards, the scene cards, and then the other one is the characters.
Right.

Speaker 3 I listen to this great, especially aspiring screenwriters i listen to this uh podcast for years that john august and craig mason do called script notes and it's like 600 episodes about screenwriting craig mason did the last of us he wrote the last of us directed it um amazing you know john john john august did big fish like they're just like great writers and you know i i just think like you know i try to just think about everything the reason i do the character bulletin board is like i always try to think of everything being in relation to like what would the character do as opposed to like what would happen to the character.

Speaker 2 And would you direct this? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So that would be the ultimate creative play boxes or toy box that I can see is to write and direct a movie, get all the toys out there, all the actors, all the stuff, and then try to visualize your

Speaker 2 dream, basically.

Speaker 3 Totally. I mean, that's, I mean, like when I think about my favorite stuff, it's like, you know, like James L.
Brooks movies, like broadcast news and terms of endearment.

Speaker 2 Yeah. That's good to say, you know.
What was that?

Speaker 3 Yeah. I just, you know, Mike Nichols' career, I love, like, I love the idea of just directing a bunch of movies.
And I, yeah, I hope that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And you, Kramer versus Kramer, or

Speaker 2 the graduate, or oh, yeah. I'm just kind of thinking the sensibility that you're going for, you know.

Speaker 3 Great. Yeah, I would say close to the, yeah, I would say close to the graduate.
Like,

Speaker 3 I just love movies, and I feel this way about my specials too. I love things that have jokes and jokes and jokes, and then they kind of get you when you don't expect it emotionally.

Speaker 1 Tootsie, Tootsie was great, they love comedy, but you know, has all when the dad has to sit dust and hopping down at the end and talk to him.

Speaker 2 But yeah, you know what? You know what's another one, by the way?

Speaker 3 Trains, trains, planes, and automobiles, I feel like is like that.

Speaker 3 Obviously, Tommy Boy is that.

Speaker 1 Tommy Boy is a little bit more.

Speaker 2 Well, that is true. We talked about Tommy Boy recently with the director and Chris at the end in the sailboat talking to his dad.
I mean, yeah, it had that.

Speaker 1 That was like a late addition, like how to wrap him up and how to make it all make sense. And it was so important.

Speaker 3 The lore of Tommy Boy, because that's such an iconic movie for me. It's like the lore of you guys talking about how you were just doing it like

Speaker 3 on like weekdays. You fly to Canada during SNL and then you'd fly back.

Speaker 2 Like, what the hell?

Speaker 3 Like, it doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 That's why we're all crazy.

Speaker 2 Sometimes in comedy, I don't know your particular style, but sometimes money can get in the way, and 30 days to shoot can get in the way. Some, the first point

Speaker 2 was such a low budget, 25 or 30 days. We just didn't, we just kept going, going, going, going.

Speaker 2 But in your case,

Speaker 2 how many pages will your script be? Yeah. When you're ready to shoot, it'll be, it'll be a hundred.

Speaker 3 It'll be probably a hundred pages and we'll probably shoot it look they're gonna they'll probably say it'll be 25 days and I'll I'll just fight and fight to try to get 28 29 days I mean that's the thing that's so hard to explain about making movies it's like you're just begging for time you're just like please because you're just bleeding money gonna miss something you don't want to miss anything you're like i need one more take on this i need one more location just to just make everything better if we could just

Speaker 1 we need this we need it yeah

Speaker 2 would you have somebody

Speaker 2 like do a rough edit after every day, like a really quick digital edit so you can kind of see what you got?

Speaker 3 Our editor was this guy named Jeffrey Richmond, who, who actually edits Severance, which is a brilliant show. And

Speaker 3 he would do,

Speaker 3 he would do assemblies, but a lot of it would be,

Speaker 3 he'd be like, hey, if you can go back into the kitchen and shoot a thing where she says, like, I don't have the hammer, that would really help us have this whole fucking thing

Speaker 2 that's better than reshoots i mean then you

Speaker 2 think the kitchen set is still around you know exactly yeah yeah yeah so so basically just to sum up on this internet it's like you're busy life is life is good yeah good life

Speaker 2 right now for you creatively you're it seems like you're very engaged and excited about this movie and everything you're doing you know and you have plenty of work excited about the special i'm excited about the special i'm excited to make my next movie and uh yeah i'm I'm lucky.

Speaker 3 You know, I live in Brooklyn with my wife and daughter. She just turned 10.
We had like a

Speaker 3 birthday sleepover this weekend. The girls watched Clueless.

Speaker 2 It was great.

Speaker 2 Oh, is that 90s? Clueless. Yeah.
And see, John Hughes, all those movies you can show as your daughter and the girl, as they hopefully they like them.

Speaker 2 Pretty in Pink, all those movies are.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and she's got, and she's just started watching SNL. And so, like, it's, it's really fun to watch her

Speaker 3 get why it's fun. Like, get why the live aspect of SNL is kind of the best part of it, that it's just messy.

Speaker 2 And everyone's in a costume or wearing a big nose or whatever. And it's just, yeah, it's, it's, it's silly and ridiculous.
It's a lot of pressure.

Speaker 2 But yeah, there's not much more fun you can have if you're in a good sketch on SNL and it's, it's really doing well.

Speaker 2 It's, it's pretty buzzy because it's, you know, it's going out live to a lot of people.

Speaker 1 Well, thanks, Mike. It's great to see you again.
And thanks for coming on with us.

Speaker 2 We enjoyed chatting with you and say hello to John Mulaney and Nick Roll or whoever else you're out there with.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 3 Thanks a lot, you guys. Just love, love the podcast.
And I am honored to come on.

Speaker 2 Now I'm going to go watch the rest of your special. Amazing.
Amazing. Thank you.
Be well.

Speaker 3 All right. I'll see you guys soon.
Take care.

Speaker 1 This has been a presentation of Odyssey. Please follow, subscribe, leave a like, a review, all the stuff.
Smash that button, whatever it is, wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 Fly on the Wall is executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Jenna Weiss-Berman of Odyssey, and Heather Santoro. The show's lead producer is Greg Holtzman.