Eastenders' Euro 2025 joy, #AccidentalCantona & "the most 2011 transfer of all time”

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I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like.

Is Gascoigne going to have a crack?

He is, you know.

Oh, I think.

Brilliant.

He's round the goalkeeper.

He's done it.

Absolutely incredible.

He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was eye without a shadow of a doubt getting him lip.

Oh, I say,

it's amazing!

He does it tame and tame and tame again.

Break up the music!

Charge your glass!

This nation is going to dance all night!

Wrestling commentary does it again.

Freak footballer injuries in real life.

A cultural review of UK soap operas referencing England's Euro 2025 glory, one more rung up the ladder to peak Arteta, the glorious vanquished names of the FA Cup extra-preliminary round, the most 2011 transfer of all time, yet more terrible AI incursions into the beautiful game, the gelling window, the 90s footballer anecdote cadence, and Keesy's big week out in the wild.

Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts.

This is Football Clichés.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Football Clichés.

I'm Adam Hurry.

This is the adjudication panel.

Joining me first of all is David Walker.

How are you doing?

I'm very good.

How are you?

I'm really good.

Got some news for you.

Excalibur's done it again.

Here is all elite wrestling dynamite the other night.

You know, he is out of action, at least temporarily.

The injury, of course, your betrayal on him, your betrayal on Kenny Omega as well.

Wouldn't be surprised if you had a hand in

what happened to the Ribblesdale Rovers earlier this season.

Wow, the who the fiddle was, man.

Absolutely ludicrous.

When we, um, the last clip that we played before that of Excalibur dropping in cliches, we challenged him to keep dropping in hints.

This wasn't quite as subtle as we perhaps thought

he might have been, but fair play.

I didn't see him going down that avenue.

When you first sent this to me, and it like the night after it was televised, and obviously loads of, or some clichés fans sent it to us, I was a bit hungover that morning.

Woke up a bit late and sort of looked at my phone with loads of messages about this thing, sort of blearily eyed, not quite sure what was going on for a few minutes.

But there you go.

The rovers have gone global.

Yeah, it's both a deep cut and a bit too root one.

I can't decide.

I mean, I just, you do wonder, like, this show goes out to certainly hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people watching it on television.

And a very, very small percentage of those are going to have any idea.

We should actually look at the Google searches for Ribblesdale Rovers on that day and see if there was a spike.

Yeah, definitely.

Raise awareness of their plight.

Anyway, speaking of big burly men joining you on the ED Chasing panel is Nick Miller.

How are you doing?

Where were you this weekend?

I was in Belgium this weekend.

It was very nice.

Where specifically?

Antwerp.

Antwerp.

Do you know what I think of when I think of Antwerp?

A slew of Manchester United players going on alone there in the mid-90s?

Pretty much, actually.

I think of Ronnie Woolwork being banned for life for pushing a referee or something like that.

Yeah, overturned.

For legal reasons, we have to say, overturned.

Yeah, absolutely crucial.

I have returned from a week in a yurt where halfway through the experience I suffered the most freak Premier League footballers injury that has never befallen a Premier League footballer.

I got stung on the tongue by a wasp.

Wow.

For God's sake.

Would that keep a Premier League player out?

You're classic dropping a bottle of mayonnaise or whatever on the foot.

That's going to cause some problems, but I don't know.

It's more of a nightmare injury for a commentator, isn't it?

The big day before a final.

Motti couldn't do the 1982 World Cup final because he got stung by a European hornet in Seville.

Hurt less than I expected.

No ill effects.

I carried on drinking my can of Angelo Paretti from Tesco.

The mechanics of this, did it

go into your mouth or was your tongue protruding at the time?

The wasp was in the can.

Walking around with your tongue hanging out.

Yeah, that'll teach you.

Yeah.

Lesson learned.

Wasp was in the can.

I took a swig.

I instantly felt some foreign matter and quickly, my brain quickly realised it was a wasp.

And before I could do anything about it, it wriggled around, stung me.

It was obviously sort of half done in by the the beer itself.

So perhaps that quelled the threat somewhat.

But all-round horrifying experience of about three seconds.

And then I milked it for all it was worth because it felt fine after that.

You're a lucky boy, really.

It was in your mouth.

It could have gone a lot worse.

It could have gone worse.

Professional podcaster.

Get out.

Get out.

Get out.

More fun while I was away.

We broadcast the Football Cliches Quiz 20 against View from the Lane.

What an encounter it was.

I'm looking forward to doing more Pod V Club episodes in the future.

Anyway, we asked the listeners halfway through between 2010 and 2014 who finished second, fourth, third, sixth, and then 17th in the Ballon d'Or voting.

Nick, do you know who that might have been?

I made a mental note.

When I was listening to the quiz, I made a mental note to think about later on and then didn't.

So

not the most exciting question, actually, really, but the answer, as about 17 of you emailed me and DM'd me, was Andres Iniesta.

Yeah, I'll put more.

I might make the next question a little bit more playful.

Elsewhere, two months to go till football clichés live in 2025.

Go to tickets.football clichés.com if you want to join us in Brighton, Cardiff, Hackney Empire in London, Birmingham, Dublin, Manchester, or indeed at the Sold Out Gigs in Leeds and Glasgow.

Nothing you can do about that now.

So, yeah, you can hang around outside if you like.

Join us in the pub after.

Either's fine.

Right, it's time for the adjudication panel.

I want to take us all the way back to the end of July, please, and the triumph of the lionesses.

Now, Dave Walker, I put it to you that no England major tournament success is complete without soap operas getting in on the act after the event.

Let's kick things off with these tenders, please.

Eve, have you seen Oscars duck in a shift?

Never mind that.

Did you see our lionesses last night?

Yeah, I did that in my heart.

I couldn't take it.

Once they made Beth Mead retake that penalty, I just thought, oh, here we go again, you know.

Back to back.

Euro champs, Bealy boy.

The first on foreign soil.

We didn't even need Wembley for the win.

Chloe Kelly.

I mean, talk about a player stepping up, you know?

Russo, Azuman.

Arjun.

Bronze, man, what a warrior.

Hey?

And Hannah bleeding Hampton.

Well, Leah Williamson.

Never mind the OVA.

She wants nighting, don't she?

She does.

She does.

They all do.

Tomorrow I should change the menu, right?

Hampton's ham rolls.

Toon's toasties.

Bronze's bacon packs.

Put me down for a standway steak bait with you.

That's good.

That's good.

Yeah.

Fobal's not coming home, he's staying home.

Now, Dave.

Oh, Christ.

I like it.

I like it.

But as is always the case when they film these, especially after the event and squeeze it into the episode, they fall into a classic trap of mentioning every possible aspect of things that happened in the game.

You've got too far.

Nine players were mentioned there.

I was going to say, nearly got the whole 11.

Should have delved into the second and third choice goalkeepers.

Chiara Keating air in there.

Nick, when the script simply gets to just saying a player's name and someone just going, oh, that's it.

That's too far.

Come on.

Be classier.

Be subtler.

Yeah, I mean, it's just first page of the notes from like conversation about England.

Livid if you're one of the players that wasn't mentioned.

Didn't hear Alex Greenwood mentioned in there?

Yeah, gutted.

Did they mention Russo?

Scored in the final and didn't get a mention in there?

I don't think so.

Dave, what would you say was the most natural part of that?

I I mean, again, it fell into the classic situation of one of them having to go, oh, that moment, X.

And I went, oh, why?

But as you say, too much detail.

Like, you start off by going, did you see the Lionesses last night?

Fine.

That's a standard gambit that could very feasibly and will have happened up and down the night.

Do you even need to ask, do people even ask that question anymore?

Did you see the big match last night?

No one does that, do they?

I think you would do.

For this, I think, because I think the Lionesses, there is still enough plausible doubt that you might not have seen it.

it.

Okay.

You know, even though lots of people did.

Delving into too much detail immediately, and oh, when they made Beth Mead retake that penalty, it just, even that, you would probably just say Mead, wouldn't you?

You probably wouldn't give it the full name treatment.

It's just too, they're doing too many things.

And

a bit that weirdly annoyed me as well, when he said Agumang,

the male character here, he sort of did a fake header.

Agumang didn't score a header.

Oh, right.

And wasn't particularly a factor in the final either.

Yeah, I don't know.

Maybe that's midpicking.

Did you make a few defensive clearances?

Maybe that's what he was alluding to.

That would have been good.

Yeah, what about Agimang and those good work running off the ball and some defensive clearances?

Amazing.

Ian Beale's son knows ball.

Nick, to pick up on Dave's point that too many players were getting full names there, I mean, I put it to you that the Lionesses are one of the most full-named teams I've seen for a while.

I wonder if it's just because the coverage of women's football and specifically the lionesses has got to the that kind of sweet spot where everyone's watching it or you know a critical mass of people are watching it but there's still that kind of novelty of the people covering it to kind of say all their names if you see what I mean like I just feel like all the all of them are getting full named at all times it's extraordinary but maybe they're just all at that stage of their fame arc perhaps where full naming is mandatory yeah there are a couple that yeah as your mind doesn't really get the full name who else does stanway get full name yeah probably yeah so there is a as you say there's a kind of familiarity like everyone's that they feel the need to kind of remind people what what these what these players names are it's a good point because when when talking about this team on the on the England pod over the last month I found myself naturally slipping into football speak and just surnaming them at times but whenever I've on the occasions that I've done that it has felt I felt a bit as though I was doing it wrong because you're sort of so used to hearing them double named yeah when I was just saying like Carter Bronze Williamson it sort of doesn't.

There's a bit of me going, oh, no, you should, we should full name them because that's when we only ever hear them full named.

Well, it's good that you've got that doubt because it feels like that to me.

You're just over the crest of the wave then.

At some point in the next two to four years, you will start surnaming them as they deserve to be because they're footballers.

And maybe that's where we need to get to.

Down the soap opera pecking order we go now to Emmerdale.

Hello, anyone around?

I'm on the scrounge for some eggs.

Oh, oh, oh, oh.

How can you be so full of the joys after sinking all that gin last night?

Oh, the hangover's worth it.

Seeing those brilliant girls bring it back home again.

Spoken like a true footy fanatic.

I'm so proud of them.

Carrying on fighting despite having

lost the World Cup.

But look at them now, eh?

Indeed.

Defending the title.

The whole country rooting for them.

Yeah, and they're gonna keep on doing it over and over again.

There's no stopping them now.

because you know what a lot of lesses do

rubbish nick this could have been recorded back in april there's no specifics in here at all i've gone the other way

that sounded that i was really reminded of the dad of a friend who is a is a lovely man but deeply deeply on cool apparently he when they were students he would sometimes try and join in and then in the banter and there were some people watching a game in the living room and he he stuck his head around the living room door and said, go on, kick it in the goal.

Oh, no.

In a kind of adorable but awful attempt to get involved.

And that's what that sounded like to me.

It does sound like they've also recorded a version where they've crashed out or they've lost in the final there.

There's a crack in that way.

They're like cutting room floor.

Oh, no, just couldn't quite get it over the line, could they?

The lionesses.

But they'll be back, won't they?

Because what do lionesses do?

Nothing from the Coronation Street Writers, it seems.

Maybe I watched the wrong episode, but what, you know, the thing is about ITVX, you can only put yourself through one set of adverts to draw through an episode.

I'm not doing it twice.

So if they didn't go out on Monday with anything, then I assume they haven't addressed it at all, which is poor from them, I would say.

A lot of Northwest players in the squad.

It seems mad to me that they would miss that trick, so maybe I've missed it.

Who knows?

Let's stick with the lionesses now.

Leo Williamson, talking to the BBC after the game, said, we have ridden our luck, but I don't think we were lucky.

Laurie Phillips writes in, Dave, and says, Any idea what the distinction might be?

I suppose riding your luck means is it an element of risk-taking rather than something happening to you?

Like you're actually forcing the issue a bit, you're pushing the boundaries.

I don't think there's much of a distinction between the two, is there, really?

If you're riding your luck, surely by definition you are being lucky.

I don't know.

To me, riding your luck is like if the opposition has a lot of chances, and either through brilliant defending or they just don't take them, they don't score.

But being lucky is like colossal deflection, a cross going in, or something like that.

I mean, riding your luck is essentially like pushing your luck.

Getting away with it.

Yeah, you're kind of in charge of how much luck you're giving up, maybe.

But more specifically, Dave, what footballing scenarios are the quintessential elements of riding your luck?

Is it a defensive thing?

You can't ride your luck in attack, can you?

So it's more of a sort of leaving yourselves open and exposed at the back.

Something that happens to you, but not through your own actions, you get away with it.

So like the Sweden game where they could have been two or three, well, it could have been three or four nil down at half-time.

Other teams should have punished you, but you've gotten away with it.

I think is more riding your luck.

The penalty shootouts, like they had, they yeah, they should have gone out in the penalty shootouts, but the other team missed the penalties.

So, that's lucky.

I mean, you can't ride your luck in a penalty shootout, can you, Nick?

I don't think so.

But also, Dave's example there is right, but also,

it was 2-0 to Sweden at half-time in that game, was it?

Yeah, can you still have ridden your luck if you are losing 2-0 at half-time?

It's a good point.

I mean, yeah, I suppose if you manage to avoid going, letting the team out of sight, I suppose.

Yeah, I suppose.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

Okay, fair enough.

But right, let's look elsewhere.

James McNicholas on The Athletic wrote a piece on Arsenal's pre-season, The Inside Story of.

One of the details within Nick was that Mikel Arteta doesn't like the semantics of the word friendly.

Internally, he refers to these games as tests.

There is a creeping suspicion that Mike Arl Arteta is losing his mind.

Either that or becoming one of the most LinkedIn managers of all time.

Which is it?

I think it's the latter.

And when I read that piece,

my first instinct was to laugh out loud at that.

But my second instinct was to think,

why did no one think of this before?

Why didn't I see this coming?

Surely this is one of the more inevitable developments in a kind of manager's curve, I think.

Mikel Arteta going full rugby and cricket.

I don't like it, Dave.

I don't know how officially he goes with the word tests here, but I don't like it at all.

I mean, friendly itself is a bit weird, sort of corrupting an adjective to turn it into a noun.

But tests, it's not for me either.

No, and to compare it to the rugby and cricket example, the tests in those sports are, well, they matter.

You know, they're not friendlies.

They're, you know, test cricket.

What a wonderful format that is, by the way.

Nothing like it.

But

yeah, it's...

So it doesn't really work in this case.

But I guess we are in an era now where maybe friendly doesn't quite do the job.

We've got these matches that are, particularly the preseason ones, like the summer series and all that stuff.

They're not, I suppose, they're not pure friendlies, are they?

They feel like they're a little bit in a sort of in-between.

Well, the marketing men certainly wouldn't want them to be called friendlies either, so maybe they do need a new name.

I mean, there's

we tend to sort of skirt around it now.

We don't call them friendlies, at least, you know, the people who are in charge of organising don't call them friendlies, Nick.

So we need a word for it, clearly.

Yeah, and another thing is that apparently Forrest have been using very deliberately like staggered their friendliness tests, whatever you call them, to replicate the Europa League Conference League schedule.

So it's like even to the point where they're kind of travelling home late after a game to just to sort of replicate that idea of getting home really late and then having to get up again for the

games on channel five.

Yeah, exactly.

Don't put yourself through it yet.

You don't need to.

We've got that to come.

Don't put yourself through the hardship of the Thursday, Sunday grind in pre-season.

but but in a way like if you think about it what he means is test i suppose what he means is test in in sort of it's a way to test ourselves and to test things or whatever but i suppose in a way they're more like lessons aren't they they're like driving lessons the test you're building up to you're building up to the main thing aren't you oh no practice practice matches too informal sort of two that's too behind closed doors training ground isn't it yeah yeah i agree it reminded me that in spanish they call them uh they call a friendly match amistoso which is just spanish for friendly so it it has travelled the word.

So maybe, maybe it's got wider reach than I expected.

Let's speak of some competitive action though, Dave.

The FA Cup is underway already.

The extra preliminary round took place at the weekend.

Goodbye to the following clubs.

Penniston Church, Litherland REMYCA, Rugby Town and Rugby Borough.

Good.

Romulus, Droitwich Spa, Hereford Pegasus, Sporting Club Inkborough, Buckbrook St.

Michael's, Leicester Nirvana, Kimberley Miners Welfare, Fathersham Strike Force, whose badge, by the way, is terrible.

What is going on there?

Look it up.

British Airways, Crawley Down Gatwick, bad news for the Air Force.

Metropolitan Police, Eversley in California, and Bournemouth FC.

Wow.

Yeah.

It's a Bournemouth football club.

You've got a bit of everything there, haven't we?

Something for everyone.

Romulus.

There's a tinkle Romulus in there.

That's class.

Begs the question.

I did think about Bournemouth FC, Nick.

I'm trying to think of examples where the AFC AFC version of a team is much higher in the pyramid than

the standard FC.

I can't think of any other examples right now.

What are your AFCs in English?

There are not that many AFCs, I guess.

Well,

there's no Wimbledon FC, is there?

So AFC Wimbledon don't count in this one.

To me, that stinks of the being a Bournemouth FC and then

whoever creating AFC Bournemouth and doing the AFC so they're higher up in the alphabet and just kind of the old the old trick of plumbers and stuff calling themselves like a plumbers to get higher up in the yellow pages or something yeah um yeah just for the record bournemouth fc were founded in 1875 24 years before afc bournemouth so uh there we are yeah so rightful owners of the name it isn't some sort of smug kind of attempt to claim primacy in the bournemouth area um anyway yeah sad to see those teams go right next up the news that fc porto nick have unveiled luke de jong as their new striker uval writes in and says is this the most 2011 transfer of all all time?

The thing about this was,

I think I was reading this this morning, it was like a kind of a surprise announcement, like it hadn't been the

obviously very unusual.

But the thought in my head was, was it a surprise announcement because no one really gave a fuck beforehand and they just hadn't bothered to kind of to investigate this?

And you know, if it was, you know, a perhaps a bigger name, Luke DeYong, fine career, sure is an excellent player.

But it did seem quite a sort of low wattage signing to be be that kind of thing.

It's not Kevin Keegan appearing out of nowhere of Southampton, is it?

No, you'd like to know what the build-up was for it.

Was there smoke and big fanfare and a countdown, and then out trots Luke de Jong, or did he just sort of appear out of nowhere?

People nodding each other in the stands going, who's that?

That is 34-year-old Luke De Jong.

He's only 34 still.

I thought he was ancient ancient.

That makes it possible as a porto signing.

I'm now struggling to place the Portuguese Primera Liga

in the European Pyramid.

What's their game?

Why are you signing Luke de Jong at the age of 34?

It's mad.

Absolute mad.

Where should he be?

Should be playing for Al Itterhad or something.

Well, probably just back in Holland, right?

Just back in the Netherlands.

But the fact that the president of Porto is AVB is nice as well.

The whole thing's just stuck in the early 2010s.

Yeah, very much so.

Maybe that's where he got the inspiration.

Elsewhere, 38-year-old David Luis Nick has signed for Paphos in Cyprus.

Wow.

Yeah.

that's alarming.

To me, he's the most kind of nailed on five Brazilian clubs in five seasons towards the tail end of his career play you can imagine.

Yeah, he was at Flamengo for most of 2024, signed for Fortaleza, I think, played a few games and then booked off to Cyprus at the age of 38.

Had a really half-hearted airport welcome, I can confirm,

where

at my rough count, there were more bodyguards than there were fans acclaiming his arrival.

Got to work on that, Cyprus, if you really want to get into the airport welcoming game.

You're seeing this a little bit now.

Like, the traditional retirement homes for footballers may be starting to slightly diversify a little bit.

Like, didn't Aaron Ramsey has signed for

Publishing?

Yeah, in Mexico.

And, I mean, I've not looked into this deal, but sometimes I think you see, you know,

is there sort of any sort of other investment stake in the club or have they got some sort of eye on a role afterwards?

Maybe, but, you know, it's the well-worn journey, isn't it?

You know, caretaker manager in the championship off to play in mexico for assistance

a pound for every time that's happened um madness uh love to see the transfer silly season hotting up though we've got more to come i imagine right that's it for part one we'll be back very shortly

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Welcome back to Football Cliches.

This is the adjudication panel.

A reminder that for just $5.99 a month, you can sign up for Dreamland.

For that, you get your ad-free listening, two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive new show, and lots of other things as well.

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Footballers, names, and things, a great pair for you now.

First one came from Wild Jabir, who was watching an episode of Mastermind.

And our next contender, please.

Your name?

Graham Donaldson.

Your occupation?

Company secretary.

And your specialist subject.

Star Trek Deep Space Nine.

The 1990s Star Trek series in which the Federation officer Benjamin Sisko commands a space station near the planet Bajor.

Wow.

Benjamin Sesko.

How has this one never come up before?

Is he a bit of a Deep Space Nine, Sesco?

Oh, hello.

There you go.

Lovely.

Yeah, I mean, very much in demand, Cesco, at the moment, Nick, or at least for clubs who can't get the actual striker they want from elsewhere.

But the United Federation of Planets,

they're not going to let him go cheap, are they?

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Got to figure out the structure of the deal, then the additional payments.

As an aside, it is the mastermind format of introducing the subject and then a brief description of the subject is very second-mentions.

It's really good.

Of course, the 29 year old Wales midfielder,

it's good for people who just don't know what

mad speciality the contestant has gone for.

Secondly, this came from DLQNC on Reddit.

This is Footballers Names in American High School TikTok Drama.

My name is Melina McGrunge.

My name is Savannah Jacobs.

We are here to speak about the truth of our first-hand experience with a creator.

And we were silenced and isolated for a long time and we couldn't speak about it because we were genuinely scared of what this creator would do.

I'm not allowed to say names for legal reasons, but we are here to talk about

I can, Ashley Barnes.

But this is great because Ashley Barnes is a great name to pop up in this segment day, but it's also a perfectly feasible name for an American high school TikTok bully.

Yeah.

Ashley Barnes, prom queen.

You can see it, Nick, quite easily.

100%.

Yeah.

In a sort of minor character in 10 Things I Hate About You or something like that.

Yeah, love it.

Love it.

Right, finally for part one.

This came from Ben Brindle.

He says, I watched Bend It Like Beckham with my girlfriend.

I was engrossed until Kira Knightley started playing a DVD of WUSA soccer, and I heard the unmistakable sound of Portsmouth vs.

Carlisle, 1985.

You gotta see this, it's wicked.

WUSA soccer!

Wow, yeah, W USA.

We don't have anything like that over here.

Watching your freedom on the attack, the cross coming!

Go!

We have one footballer of the year!

Milbrett makes overtime.

She's got overback to beat.

She's huge.

Goal.

Tiffany Milbrey scores again for the New York Power.

Now, where were they getting it from?

Where were the producers of this film getting it?

Did they go over to the BBC Sound Effects database as well?

Or what's happening?

Why use this sound effect?

Why do I have to keep asking this question, Dave?

They were real goals.

So they're watching actual goals from American women's football in the

late 90s, I guess.

But they must have just thought, well, you know, we just need to give it something extra where the sound effect's not quite good enough.

Let's just give it, just get that sound.

You know the sound.

You know the one I mean, don't you?

Twice.

It was used twice in that as well, correct?

I mean, just a huge commitment to the cause.

Someone else was watching the best goals of Mexico 86, and randomly out of nowhere, Bulgaria is scoring against South Korea.

They put the sound effect in there as well.

Madness.

What's happening?

That's just a year after Paulus versus Carlisle, so hot off the press.

Maybe the first ever usage of it.

Who knows?

My phone, you know, it gives you photo apps, give you like the on this day stuff now and the other day I was looking through it and it gave me an on this day

took me back to 2021 I think it was when I was at the British podcast awards and I met Ellis James at the after party and there's a video of me and him doing the Ellis James crowd noise together and sending it to you let's have that clip please

now Nick I don't think you need any persuading about this.

AI is the pits, clearly, and I've got two very footballing pieces of evidence evidence to back that up.

Number one, this came from podcast Secrets of the Pharaohs.

It's a TikTok of AI-generated scenes of football fans chanting, and they just haven't got it right.

They haven't got it right.

We lose every week.

We lose every week.

You're nothing special.

We lose every week.

His teeth are offside.

His teeth are offside.

Louis Suarez.

His teeth are offside.

Oh, God.

Visually, a fascinating scene, Nick.

A big bald bloke with a soiled football shirt holding a can of what seems to be fosters.

That's never going to happen.

That's never going to be allowed for a start.

But yeah, just like, not only is the tune obviously completely incorrect and the rhythm barely hanging on either.

The whole thing is just, as usual with AI, really unnerving as a result.

Yeah, it's, I mean, the first one was sort of bad, but was a sort of vague corruption of, you know, you tweak a few things and you get get that all just about right.

The second one was just a, oh my god.

It's an absolute mess.

Yeah, just just no semblance of anything close to real.

The only thing it's got right is the big bald fat bloke at the front does look quite realistic, but like you say, the shirt in the second of those chants, he's wearing an England shirt and it's like covered in mud.

It looks like he's been on the pitch, you know, on a really muddy pitch.

Yeah, and just the whole thing is crap, isn't it?

Example number two, this came from Craig.

He says, I stumbled across a frankly surreal account last night that seems to take genuine sports reports and repost them with a load of attempted and usually botched synonyms.

This is dot news TV on Blue Sky.

And they've taken a story about Manchester United's new stadium plans hitting the buffers.

And the intro reads, Manchester United plans to construct a 100,000-seat stadium subsequent to previous Trafford.

They're dealing with delays resulting from a standoff over the value of land wanted to start work.

Previous Trafford.

Previous Trafford.

Ah, lovely.

You can see what's happened there, but there are more subtle situations.

How do they turn previous Trafford around for football from cricket so quickly?

It gets more subtle though.

Here is Russell Martin slamming his Rangers players after their opening day draw with Motherwell.

Russell Martin accused his gamers of getting the flawed mentality after watching his Rangers aspects being held to a draw when Emmanuel Longelo drove Residence an 87th minute equalizer for Motherwell.

Drove Residence.

That's class.

Aspects.

What was that?

Sides, I think.

Sides, yeah.

Wow.

See?

There you go.

Drove residence.

Next up, here is a quote from Russell Martin about his players.

And it says, Rangers didn't run sufficient, didn't battle sufficient, weren't courageous sufficient.

And Craig says this sounds like Trevor Brooking on Match of the Day, November 1993.

Weren't courageous sufficient.

We weren't courageous sufficient.

An AI version of Three Lions would definitely have this.

Wow.

What would Hansen say?

What's the synonym for game?

Bad news for the English puzzle.

Oh, dear.

AI.

Work to do, I would say.

Now, my attention was drawn last week to a news story on The Guardian, Nick, a headline, How a High-Speed Ocean Chase Led to an £18 million cocaine seizure in Cornwall.

And a very dramatic story.

Halfway down, this quote from Barry Vinyl.

of the National Crime Agency.

It's not a real person, but Barry.

He says, These ships come through and dump a load, and then multiple organized crime groups come out, a bit like the seagulls following the fishing trawlers, to collect the drugs.

So now this is the final nail in the coffin, Nick, for people who think that Eric Cantonal's seagulls following the trawlers is some sort of mythical, unfathomable, cryptic message.

It's actually quite straightforward.

And it's now entered the sort of lexicon so much that people think this is actual, this is a thing that just happens all the time, wasn't it?

Yeah.

Wow.

So, yeah, the logic was there the whole time, Dave, right in front of our eyes.

Just like when the drug dealers come out.

Brilliant.

Right, here's a question for you.

Came from Alex Everson.

Dave, he says, how long is the time to gel period at the start of the season for new squads after they're put together?

I'd argue it's five to six games, but does it start at the start of the season or the end of the window?

It feels like an end of the window situation, but why can't squads gel after the January window if transfers happen then?

So how long does gelling take, really?

Yeah, it's a good question.

Longer than six games.

Six games for a player to settle into a new league?

Maybe.

But even then, that's pushing it.

But gelling?

That's a month situation, surely.

I think if it's longer than six games, it's you being used in a sort of excuse context where it's like, well, no,

results have been bad, but

they made six, seven signings in the summer.

You've got to give them time to gel.

They are yet to gel.

Yet to gel.

This kind of six-game period is often thrown about, Dave, as a kind of sort of useful benchmark for all sorts of things.

But I don't think it's long enough for a team to gel.

But you'd be well on your way to gelling after six games if results back you up.

Particularly if it was followed by an international break which might give you a bit of time to gel when the players are back with some training whatever but I think

it's a bit it can sort of be used to say whatever you want it to say in a way can't it?

Yeah I was gonna say the same Nick because claiming that a team are yet to gel just feels such a flimsy observation.

It's a bit like saying that they look a bit leggy out there when there's no basis for the observation.

It's just something you want to be true.

When could you possibly detect that a team have gelled?

I'm sure a bit of interplay will help.

Like a clean sheet maybe.

Does that mean the defence has gelled?

None of this is backupable, is it really?

It's very it's very kind of talk sport presenter who hasn't really been paying attention to Bournemouth, you know, six, seven games into the season.

He's kind of vaguely aware of who the manager is and they've, yeah, they have lost a couple of players, so they are going to need time to gel, aren't they?

Which Premier League club, Dave, are in most danger of not gelling quickly enough?

I mean, New Look Brentford, potentially, I mean, they've lost players.

That doesn't that can't help the gelling process if you've lost things that need to gel.

I think it it's all about new players coming in, isn't it?

And a new manager, presumably.

Yeah.

Just new gel.

Yeah.

I mean, I think Man United, maybe, yeah.

Yes.

They've signed a few new players and it's and they're all sort of designed to fit Amarim's system.

And I was watching a bit of the summer series last night and they were playing Everton and there was sort of a lot of anytime any player did a one-two or they counter-attacked, there was sort of this sort of excited kind of, oh, look, they're gelling.

They're gelling before our very eyes.

Oh, they're jelling.

Starting to gell.

Speaking of this game, Nick, when Everton equalised through Iliman Njai, Sky Sports Premier League tweeted, Iliman Njai is on the end of Adrisha Garner Gays Cross, and the scores are level once more in Atlanta.

You can't say level once more at 1-1, can you?

That's a 2-2 situation, at the very least.

So, sorry, the exact words, well, he's leveled once more, or it's level.

And the scores are level once more.

Well, I mean, that's technically true.

Not denying that.

Not denying that, but I mean, you never use the word level for nil-nil.

You wouldn't say it's still level here.

Level is, level is for goals have to have been scored for level to be a valid term.

Nil-nil is, everybody knows that's level.

That almost goes without saying.

You just don't say it.

So I don't want level once more at 1-1.

Do we start the game here?

The score's level.

Yeah.

Can't do that.

Good computer game commentary, that would be big.

Dave, if I said to you, if I randomly gave you an update from the game and said,

and the scores are level once more here in Atlanta, you're going to imagine it's 2-2, right?

You're not thinking 1-1.

Definitely.

And that's all that matters.

That's instinct, footballing instinct there, solving the problem.

Right, we'll take a break.

We'll be back in a moment.

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Next up, here's a mini phenomenon I've been meaning to discuss for a little while.

Here is Emil Heske telling Adebeo Akinfenwa on his podcast about England brawling in the tunnel in Turkey in 2003.

And it's a good example of what I want to call the under-the-kosh cadence of a 90s/slash 2000s footballer telling a story.

story that all right so give me a moment where you was like rah so i'll give you one everyone talks about it now is when we played uh greece not grease turkey yeah we played turkey and uh qualifying beck missed the penalty away yeah

you had a fight in the tunnel at half-time oh totally so what what it was beck's officer missed the penalty we're walking through the tunnel uh i i'll pay i'll pay yeah so he's coming through and he's obviously loud and i'm just doing me i'm just walking through i'm quiet i'm doing the thing and you know when when you walk through a tunnel, you have the old pull-out ones.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So you're walking through that.

And then when you get to the end, it's like a breakout.

Yeah.

It's a big, open thingy.

So I've walked today.

I've come towards that breakout.

And then Ash, Ashley Cole and

Hassan Sas.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

I don't think nothing of it.

I'm just walking.

He goes

in his face.

Oh, oh, yeah.

So I slapped him.

Sorry.

And then everyone just jumped in out of the security guard and we're just literally fighting.

And this is half-time.

And then what we were hearing after is Rooney's having a fight with Alpie and has just hit him and dropped him in the tunnel.

It's a very specific rhythm to a footballer telling a story from 20 years ago, Dave.

One of the really sort of subtle bits of it that crops up every time is that sort of mid-story clarification of something that used to be the case but isn't now.

Do you remember you used to have those tunnels that pull out?

Remember those tunnels?

Another key element is either not quite remembering or pretending not to quite remember the name of someone involved in it.

Alpie?

Was it Alpie?

Alpai.

Was it which one was it?

Yeah, there was it.

I can understand the Greece and Turkey thing getting mixed up.

That seemed legitimate to me, but yeah, but it's that kind of ebb and flow of the rhythm, Dave.

I mean, there's that little aside where he says, oh,

I was just doing my thing.

I was just, I was just doing the thing I was doing back then.

And then this happened.

It's like, wow.

It's a classic sort of thing.

I mean, it's been quite well documented by former clichés, MHD man, Josh Pugh.

He does it very well on on his videos, but like that rhythm, that talking about something that you were privy to, but I mean sometimes it happens, they tell stories about themselves, but it's often the thing that they witnessed that they just happened to be in the room for, which gives you that level of distance, which is good sometimes.

But yeah, you're right, Nick.

Like just dropping in a player who isn't a household name.

It's funny.

I always find that interesting to see the level of players that footballers remember.

Because we know all the players.

We can remember everyone.

It's just a job to them.

Yeah.

It's like remembering who your manager was at your old job in 2003.

Exactly.

But then the sort of proper household names, the famous players, they always get referred to by their nicknames.

One element that really needed to be included there, Nick, was a little stop and sort of sort of Wikipedia citation note style aside of if he'd mentioned Alpie, he would both had to stop saying, you know, big guy, big tough defender, no nonsense, yeah, you know, all that sort of thing.

So I love that those little sort of summaries of the player.

He was a big lad.

He was a big guy, a big guy.

He took no nonsense.

Yeah, but yeah, just there's something about it.

But under the cosh is basically corn at this industry, and this isn't the undercost of the podcast, but everybody, there is this kind of perceived hunger for these stories, and they're going to run out one day.

The after dinner circuit has been taken over by podcasts.

We're not going to have any stories from the 90s that weren't televised soon.

A couple of weeks ago, I found myself at a birthday party.

I was found yourself there at the back post.

I was stood there.

Or rather,

I was at a party, and at said party, I found myself talking to Perry Groves,

who was there.

And I used to work with him a bit at Talk Sports.

We knew each other.

So we had a chat.

I hadn't seen each other for years.

So I was having a chat with him.

And we kind of got onto a bit of Arsenal chat, a bit of football chat, and he was telling me some Arsenal stuff.

And kind of, I found myself slipping into the under the kosh kind of, I was like the third guy on the under the kosh, just kind of chipping in and going, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He must have been quite a character, wasn't he?

So tell me about him.

Is he really like everyone says he is?

he he asked me a question i can't remember how we got onto this oh we were talking about arsenal right we're talking about some of the players that arsenal had signed and and and he was saying look them they're all big they're all over six foot you know they're going to be good at set pieces again and then he went in do you remember the invincibles they're all big it's only one of those only one of those players that was under six foot and he was going do you remember who it is and i'm sort of going

and i found myself normally i would have said freddie jungberg that would have been my guess maybe first if i'm going to go to third but i said freddie i was freddie ashley i was almost like i was on first name terms with him because I was pretending to be an ex-footballer with him.

It just happened naturally.

Oh, my God.

That's lovely.

You absorbed yourself into the world.

Yeah.

The world of the story.

Nice.

Sort of vending machine raconteur mode that these ex-pros must become as such.

Jesus.

As it's what they expect of me.

They just want stories.

They've got stories.

Anyway, speaking of people who've probably got some colourful tales from the 90s and 2000s, it's time for Keys and Grey Corner.

It has been an elite week or two for Richard Keys on Twitter.

Let me take you through it chronologically, Nick.

First of all, claiming that the Alexander Isaac to Liverpool story was already reported by B in Sports last March.

Done, we said.

It looks like it's getting done.

He is desperate for this one to this saga to finish.

And it is a saga, let's face it.

But if he doesn't go to Liverpool, egg on Keesy's face.

And the B in Sports Network as a whole.

A dig at PGMOL, Dave.

Standard.

Watching the Euros final down at the famous Three Kings in West Kensington.

Clark.

Yeah, wow.

I mean, just imagine you turn up to the pub and you see Keesy just sitting there at the bar.

I don't know what I'd do.

I don't know what I'd do.

I mean,

we've pondered this scenario before.

I still don't know what I would do.

I'd definitely say hello because I feel like I know him now.

The danger of it surely would be that you would sort of slip in something that you've used on the podcast and sort of you know forgetting that you take the best out of it routinely for years.

Hi, Richard.

You were born on St.

George's Day, weren't you?

And Andrew's famous.

He was born on St Andrew's Day.

Yes.

He was down at the Lionesses Victory Parade on the Mall, Dave.

That's class as well.

Good to see him supporting the Lionesses.

Into some real keysy mode now, Nick.

He was congratulating Pedro Poro for pushing Mikel Arteta back into his technical area during the Spurs Arsenal preseason friendly the other day.

Stay in your box, man.

Still, still thumping that drum.

I've been talking about this for years.

Complete with trademark screen grab from the Daily Mail website on his tablet.

Has to be from the tablet.

A dig at Sir Dave Brailsford.

And then finally, rather unexpectedly, on his way to Wembley to see Oasis.

So before the gig, he tweeted, this had better be good.

Like City, I've spent a fortune, but legitimately.

Thumbs up.

Jesus.

This had better be good.

It's needlessly threatening, isn't it?

Yeah, this 2 plus 2 banter continued afterwards when he says, in case you're interested, the guys, Noel Gallagher, Liam Gallagher, were sensational.

No charges to follow, guys.

Thumbs up, emoji.

Laughing emoji.

Stop saying guys, Keezy.

Guys.

It's very good that he felt when he said that the guys, he felt the need to clarify which members of Oasis he was talking about.

Bonehead was terrific.

The overall vibe I've seen from people I know who've gone to the Oasis gigs, Dave, has just been just wall-to-wall bliss.

Everyone just having the best time of their lives.

Sheer happiness all around.

Not just nostalgic happiness, but just a release for some people to finally see this happen.

Imagine being in that state of euphoria, any level of it, turning around and seeing Richard Keys.

Your mind would explode.

Especially if he was wearing a bucket hat.

What a sight.

But imagine how much it will be enhanced if you if you know Don't Look in Angus starts and you you throw your arm around Keysy's shoulder and you're belting out the chorus together.

Chuck, incredible.

Oh my god.

She knows it's too late, Andy.

Told him.

Told him already.

We knew it months ago.

Anyway, too much, Keesy.

Let's focus on the other side of things.

This came from preeminent Keys and Gray archivist Noza.

Here is Andy Gray talking directly to players and refs during commentary.

I mean, just David, you've been brilliant, but don't even dive, mate.

Just turn around and pick out the net, because that's as close as you're going to get to it.

Oh, keep your eye on that ball, Pavel.

Come on, that's the worst one you control, mate.

It's a brilliant finish, Joe.

But at the moment, you just got to keep going, Robbie.

That's all I would suggest, because when they start,

they'll be like buses, mate.

Nice touch, David.

Suddenly, he's wondering where has he gone?

And it's too late, Javier.

The ball's in the back of your net.

John, I'm afraid when you're that much of a threat, they do pay you particular attention.

I'm sorry, Howard.

I don't get that one.

I really don't get that one.

Well, if you're not sure, Lad, the only ones I can offer that, just smash it.

Show on the dice.

He smashed it all right.

It works for British and Irish players.

It even works for referee Howard Webb, but I didn't like it, but Javier Maturano for some reason.

Javier.

An underappreciated,

and not as oft-remembered aspect of Andy's commentary, yeah.

But such an effective way of co-commentating, Nick.

Only the co-commentator could do that, obviously.

And he's been a player, and it's only a been a player kind of thing that you can do.

And it's taking you into that world.

So, in that sense, whether it's deliberate or not, it's brilliant co-commentary, like in a way.

Like, it's not that indulgent, I don't think.

And it's kind of loosely plausible that he could know these people, like he could actually know these people in real life.

True.

So, the first name thing isn't just a sort of over-familiar aspect of it.

It is a bit over-familiar, isn't it?

I mean, he probably does know them.

He's definitely met most of them, but does he know them?

I don't know, maybe.

He probably doesn't know Javier Mashurano.

No, that's true.

Reassuring Liverpool's Robbie Keene that as soon as he scores, the goals will start flowing.

I thought was class, because that's arms round the shoulder stuff.

So maybe not his remit as a co-commentator.

Stay partial, perhaps, but good to know he felt his pain as a fellow striker.

Brilliant stuff today.

Thank you to Nick Miller.

Thank you.

Thanks to you, Dave Walker.

Thank you.

Thanks to everyone for listening.

We'll be back on Thursday.

See you then.

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.

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Mike and Alyssa are always trying to outdo each other.

When Alyssa got a small water bottle, Mike showed up with a four-liter jug.

When Mike started gardening, Alyssa started beekeeping.

Oh, come on.

They called it truce for their holiday and used Expedia Trip Planner to collaborate on all the details of their trip.

Once there, Mike still did more laps around the pool.

Whatever.

You were made to outdo your holidays.

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