The Agyemang Cacophony, the storm-weathering threshold & how clubs “get their man”

Popsicles, sprinklers, a cool breeze.

Talk about refreshing.

You know what else is refreshing this summer?

A brand new phone with Verizon.

Yep, get a new phone on any plan with Select Phone Trade In MyPlan.

And lock down a low price for three years on any plan with MyPlan.

This is a deal for everyone, whether you're a new or existing customer.

Swing by Verizon today for our best phone deals.

Three-year price guarantee applies to then-current base monthly rate only.

Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers.

Chronic migraine is 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more.

Botox, onobotulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they start.

It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month.

It prevents on average eight to nine headache days a month versus six to seven for placebo.

Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor.

Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms.

Alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition.

Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk.

Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck, and injection, sight pain, fatigue, and headache.

Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness.

Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection.

Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis, or Lambert Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects.

Why wait?

Ask your doctor, visit BotoxchronicMigraine.com, or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more.

At blinds.com, it's not just about window treatments.

It's about you, your style, your space, your way.

Whether you DIY or want the pros to handle it all, you'll have the confidence of knowing it's done right.

From free expert design help to our 100% satisfaction guarantee, everything we do is made to fit your life and your windows.

Because at blinds.com, the only thing we treat better than windows is you.

Visit blinds.com now for up to 50% off with minimum purchase plus a professional measure at no cost.

Rules and restrictions apply.

I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like.

Is Gascoigne going to have a crack?

He is, you know.

Oh, I think

brilliant.

But jeez!

He's round the goal, Keeper.

He done it!

Absolutely incredible!

He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was eyewit without a shadow of a doubt getting

Semi-understandable cross-sporting venue confusion.

Alan Brazil getting his head round a player being from a very specific mini-era of the Premier League.

England's Euro 2025 lifeline commentated on by six people at the same time.

Just how stormy should an early storm storm be to be weathered?

Clubs who finally get their man.

Football articles we never want to read again.

Troy Deani just getting what it means to be an elite level footballer.

And Lockdown Keys in Grey showing no disrespect to egg.

Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts.

This is Football Clichés.

Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés.

I'm Adam Hurry.

This is the Midweek Adjudication Panel.

Joining me is Charlie Echoshare.

How you doing?

Very well, thank you.

Alongside you is david walker how are things things are good excellent i've just been looking at the seating plan for the hackney empire live show in october on the lower level where the real hardcore are going to sit um there's there's four seats left and they're all individual seats so come on singletons people with no mates one of them is on the on the right hand side of the stage there's there's two there's a seat behind each other yeah sometimes like at the football you can still sort of get away with that and it's sort of fine but you don't i don't want people talking too much in the show though you can't really lean forward and comment on the show in the same way you might do at the football.

Maybe you can, I don't know.

Someone's tapping their mate on the shoulder going, This bit this bit is good.

I've no idea they're in the D, this is gonna be good.

Yeah, come on, complete the set.

That's what I'm talking about.

Um, if you do want to buy a ticket for that show or any of the others, Brighton, Cardiff, Birmingham, Dublin, or Manchester, go to tickets.football clichés.com.

Right, so much to get into in this adjudication panel.

I want to start with this.

I want to get it done.

I want to move on really quickly.

It's from BBC Radio 5 Live on Tuesday, and just, oh no.

Well, and that's what's interesting as well, actually, is so many people around the world would have visited Old Trafford for footballing reasons.

How do they turn it around to become, well, to stage such a cricket match like tomorrow's against India?

I mean, honestly.

See what's happened there.

Yeah.

Dave, this week

I booked a trip to Centre Parks for September.

Got in just before the end of the school holidays.

Good deal.

And it reminded me of the fact that throughout my entire childhood, I thought that Centre Parks was under one massive dome.

Like all of it.

The horse riding, everything was all over one, you know, unprecedentedly huge dome, like the Eden project, yeah, yeah, exactly, like a massive Eden project, but somehow an ecosystem just managing to survive underneath it all.

So, um, yeah, you know, we've all been there in some form.

I do remember as a kid finding out about Old Trafford, the cricket ground, and I'm sure I did think, like, oh, that's that's like fair play, Old Trafford, multi-purpose venue.

Should have different names, they should have different names.

I mean, it's pretty unprecedented to have two such big venues with the same name.

It's unhelpful.

Next, this came from Anthony Withington.

Here is Alan Brazil introducing Kevin Nolan as his co-host for Talk Sport Breakfast on Wednesday morning.

This is Talk Sport Breakfast.

Me, Alan Brazil, and absolute Bartley's man, Kevin Nolan.

What's this absolute Bartley's man?

Absolute what?

Bartley's man?

What's that about?

I'll find out.

Some of the headlines you're waking up to this morning.

Who's writing his scripts, Dave?

Who's handing him who's giving him this hospital pass?

Most of the producers on that show, I think, are probably in their 20s,

maybe a few in their early 30s.

So, yeah,

they know what they're doing there, for sure.

I would have bet good money, Charlie, on Alan Brazil pronouncing it Barclays Man.

Yes, very much so.

Yeah.

How long do you think it would take to explain to Alan Brazil, Dave, what a Barclaysman is?

Yeah, I'm not sure he'd be on board with the concept.

I think he'd get bored, actually, halfway through you explaining it to him.

I'm sort of surprised that Kevin Nolan's not familiar with it, though,

given his standing in the Barclays era.

Surely it must have come up before at some point.

Yeah, it must be in players' WhatsApp groups now, Charlie.

Yeah, I wonder that.

I mean, like, they, I don't imagine a lot of those players are particularly on social media, and it's quite a social media thing.

So, there probably are quite a few who just, yeah, it sort of goes over their head.

Right, over to Euro 2025 now, Tuesday night.

Evidence, if it were needed, Dave, that penalty rebounds really should not be scrapped.

At least if you're in English persuasive.

Italians might have something to say about it, but but yeah,

I mean a tremendous evening in football, no question.

Well, another mad, mad game saved right at the death.

Yeah, it was perfect.

I was actually

like, it all came flashing back to me when Chloe Kelly had the penalty saved.

I was sort of like, oh, God, oh, it's happening.

Oh, rebounds.

Oh, IFAB.

Yeah, come on.

It was perfect timing.

It was incredible timing, yeah.

Can I just say on the

celebration of the goal?

i don't know like i know it's a huge moment and i'm not saying you shouldn't go mad after scoring the goal but the nature of the celebration to me felt a little bit incongruous like you've just missed a penalty and then the celebration was the kind of calm don't worry i got this sort of cristiana ronaldo silencing the new camp in 2012 and i'm not sure you can do that when you've just missed a penalty do you know what i mean like you've sort of not just been really calm and like don't worry i got this like you sort of didn't have it you just you just missed a a penalty we were just i was talking about that this morning recording the england pod with robin cowan and we were talking about the same thing i to give chloe kelly some benefit of the doubt i think maybe there's a slight acknowledgement she sort of she had the corner flag in one hand i i think she sort of knows i think she was i think it was like a bit of i don't think she was like being completely oblivious to it.

I think there was maybe a hint of irony in it.

My observation on it is that it's a non-canon kind kind of football celebration, especially for that situation.

But I think it's emerged, especially since they won the Euros, that the Lionesses have a real kind of healthy arrogance running through them.

Yeah.

Really, really un-English in many respects.

Like, we're not used to winners.

We're not used to players with that level of self-confidence.

And it's dotted around the squad, and Chloe Kelly has that.

So I think in that kind of idiosyncratic kind of way, I think it's acceptable.

Like, it works as a celebration in that sense.

Yeah, and clearly that's a lot of her vibe as well.

I get that you know it is um yeah i don't know like i just feel if cristiana ronaldo had done that we would be a little oh no question

you have missed the penalty mate

i don't know it's like that there's like a certain level of sheepishness i feel like one should maybe have after you've missed the penalty and scored the rebound it's like an unwritten rule dilute the relief a bit more maybe exactly a little bit i don't like your brow really performatively

like it's a massive moment like i don't know it's like is there a like some of pippo and zaggi's goals i remember he'd score and it would be a kind of like scuffed rebound from a yard and he'd go absolutely mad and it would kind of be like I mean fair enough a goal is a goal but it just looked a little bit incongruous.

She celebrated like she just scored a penalty.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Dave on the England pod, how many times so far during this tournament have you talked about England making it difficult for themselves slash not making it easy for themselves?

Are they firmly in this territory now?

Or is that just tournament football?

Yeah, we have yeah, there's been a lot of discussion about that.

Why can't we seemingly start games well?

Why does it take us so long to wake up and all that?

But yeah, it's this, I mean, the parallels between this tournament and the men last summer, there's a lot of similarities, just scraping through and it will get to the final and probably lose to Spain.

There felt, you know, again, I'm calling upon the grand tapestry of English struggles at major tournaments.

It did feel like a fruitful knocking at the Italian door when England were searching for an English.

There are a few lofted balls into the box, which makes you go, Don't do that, don't try that, it's not gonna work.

Other than that, there was you know, the passing just felt crisp enough for the door to be opened.

And it all climaxed at the moment of Michelle Adjumang's equalizer.

And 22 Jensen 09 has gone to the trouble of overlaying the commentary.

I've never seen anyone do this before from BBC, Radio 5 Live, and ITV for that moment.

She's rescuing the field.

Danny Bang.

Twelve minutes from this touchdown coming

up.

He gets sky speed.

They see what once again.

Levels

How deep do you need to dig?

It shouldn't work.

It should be a complete mess, Dave.

But I love the fact that they all have their own pace at the start.

They all have their different ways of going into it.

Then it all just comes together.

Tremendous.

It's that's superb.

So that's Seb Hutchinson, Jonathan Pierce, and Vicky Sparks all overlaid.

That's brilliant.

And I think there's,

you know,

I was watching the game in the pub last night, so I couldn't really hear commentary that well.

But then I was listening to the clips on the way home, and Seb Hutchinson gave it full throttle for Ajumang's game.

It's astonishing extra syllables in there from the house.

Yeah, but Robin Cowan did the similar for the Sweden game as well.

And I think Azure Mang's name just perfectly suits just a real Adjaman!

It's a great name to see.

You can just really elongate that last vowel, can't you?

Yeah, absolutely right.

It's so perfectly proportioned.

Adjamang!

Speaking of Azure Mang, Charlie, Jack Watkins says, what's the clamour rating now?

I'm going DEF CON 4.

The thing is,

I mean, the clamour might well be at its peak, but it's so badly timed before a final.

You can't.

Where in history has the clamour been so overwhelming that the team has been changed for a final?

I can't think of any examples.

Jeff Hurst in 66 came in in the quarters when Greaves got injured and then kept his place in the final when Greaves was allegedly fit again.

So that's miles miles away from being the same scenario.

So I can't think of anyone who's got into the team for the final.

I'm trying in the 2002 World Cup, Brazil brought in Cleberson

very late.

Klamerson.

Klamerson.

But I'm trying to remember, though, if that was because of an injury or something.

But he came in for

Klamatha Cleberson.

Did you really need a seven out of 10 midfielder in this team?

So

he came in for the quarters and then kept his place.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, I mean,

it is one of those things.

It's the most settled team you'll ever really see, kind of injuries, suspension.

And also, it's tricky when you're such an effective super sub.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That leads us on to the next question from CJ, Dave.

They ask, what's the perfect level of performance as a substitute that would get you a starting spot in the next game?

Azure Mang and Kelly are so good off the bench for England, but almost too good, so they are now the super subs/slash finishers, as they are now technically sort of described As it feels like more of a subtle impact might get them the start.

I kind of see the logic here.

If you're so overtly good off the bench, it might happen.

This happened to me, this happened to me at under-16 level.

I was top scorer for my team, I was out injured for a bit, I came back as a substitute, scored, and they pigeonholed me as a super sub.

I had a massive tantrum on the sidelines, the David Fairclough.

The under 16.

It's a rubbish roll.

I don't want that.

I think it's a good point, actually, because if you look at the previous game, the defender, centre-back, Esme Morgan, came on and like was solid fine and then ends up starting the next game whereas Kelly and Ajamang were the game changers but they're still on the bench and they still get brought off the bench and they still have the impact if Ajamang had scored that goal that hit the bar the shot that hit the bar and in extra time she's got two and she's won the game all on herself that really would have ramped up the clamour but I think she's just so perfectly suited to being brought on late and us just chucking the ball into the box and just trying to make things happen.

I think if we did start her, you're going long straight away, and it just could all unravel, couldn't it?

Oh, I mean, there's a style of play aspect to this as well.

Yeah, maybe the logic is clearer than we think, Charlie.

If Azimang had scored that beautiful lob and scored two goals in that game, it would have been, it would seemingly be irresistible not to pick up in the team.

In any other scenario of a club season or a country's qualification campaign or something like that, if you scored twice in that way, you're getting in the team.

Well, although, like, Lucas Mora is kind of the ultimate example, he scored a hat-trick to get Spurs into the Champions League final, a hat-trick in the semifinal, a second-half hat-trick, like the most incredible thing that kind of ever happened, didn't get him a start.

Right.

Uh, you know, but again, it's like because you're not even a half-fit Harry Kane was still getting the nod ahead of him.

And then, I guess, you're saying, like, well, you know, keep Mora for like sort of mad moments maybe towards the end.

I guess it doesn't work if it's not consecutive games, if there's stuff that happens in between,

I know, but it sort of should, shouldn't it?

I mean, like, that should get you in theory.

Different rules.

Can't raise your hand.

Like, what can I do to get a start?

Sorry, we've got to score four against IX.

Well, this is a really niche example.

But in 2003, when Watford got to the FA Cup semi-final against Southampton, Tommy Smith had scored the winning goal in the quarterfinal to get us into the semi-final.

But in between those between the quarter and the semi, we brought in Michael Chopra on loan from Newcastle.

He scored four against Burnley in a league game, which meant he started the semi-final

and didn't do anything.

And Smith left.

Smith, like, was let his contract was up, and he's like, ah, I've sold this, I'm off.

You didn't even need the hint of apology about bringing this anecdote in.

It's absolutely bang off.

Thank you for this.

Could have Watford coming in handy.

Next up, Ed Willis was listening to this game on 5 Live.

Here are the opening exchanges.

Serena Viegman watches on from inside her technical area.

Italy with the free kick, which way inside their own half.

They have weathered this early England storm.

No real saves for their number one Laura Giuliani to make, but England's still enjoying the bulk of possession.

Ed Willis asks, Charlie, this got me wondering what's the threshold for an early storm?

And can a team really be described as having weathered one if they haven't yet conceded a shot?

So England mustered their first shot of the game mere seconds after Vicky Sparks' commentary there, Lauren James shooting straight at the Italian keeper.

So, I mean, this could be more nuanced than we think.

Do you have to have had a shot to inflict a storm upon a team who need to weather it?

Probably not, because you can have, you can get close to goal without having a shot.

You know, you can have lots of fizzed crosses along the box where, you know, defenders are shucking themselves at it and it's...

panic stations, but you haven't actually technically had a shot.

It's similar to an onslaught, isn't it, Dave?

I think we've talked about this before.

An onslaught doesn't necessarily need to have a shot.

I mean, some long-range shots might help, but it's more about just pouring forward and piling the box and bombarding the box, but not actually shooting.

Yeah, it's territory.

It's

creating situations.

Maybe defenders are, you know, last ditch efforts to clear crosses or to keepers coming out and punching it or whatever.

But it's it's pressure.

There might be shots involved, but but it because they it's not dependent on there being loads of shots.

Yeah, I mean yeah, it's it seems like a natural byproduct of an onslaught to have shots, but yeah, especially in the opening exchanges, Charlie, if it was later in the game, I think I would lower the bar.

But in the opening exchanges, shots feel like less of a priority.

Like you're just trying to impose yourself on the game, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, you've got plenty of time for that.

That'll all come.

At that stage,

you're just getting a crowd up and it takes a lot less.

You know, yeah, a cross or...

Forcing a defender into a kind of hurried clearance is a good, like, yeah, we've got these early on.

Yeah, spot on.

Over on RTE Sport, who are covering this game in Ireland, on their Twitter account, they said that England's Alessia Russo was afforded a free header on goal but her attempt is appalling.

Apparently it wasn't even Alesia Russo so they got the name wrong Dave but Lengthenus Decent says I've never seen an attempt described as appalling in an official tweet before it seems extremely harsh.

It does seem extremely harsh.

Is this a rivalry thing?

Is this an Irish-English thing?

I think so.

Are they just doing this across the board?

Yeah, this is...

No personality intended.

I think it was just a mad choice of word.

Yeah, okay.

That's so, so unnecessarily harsh.

But her attempts are disgrace.

Just before we move on from

this game, there was a moment last night in the pub.

So I was about halfway through the second half.

It was...

Not packed, but there was a decent amount of people watching the game.

And then halfway through the second half,

the group of four people came and sat basically on the only table that was kind of left near the big screen right next to me.

They were like almost touching me, they were that close.

And they were four young, I think they were American, possibly students, or maybe on holiday, but they weren't really interested in football.

And you could tell they were really young.

Gen Z, like young Gen Z at that.

And

as the game got more and more tense, they sort of started paying attention to it a little bit, sort of watching it out of curiosity.

And I'm really getting into it at this stage.

I'm in like full England tournament going through the ringer mode.

And there was a moment.

Facebook group, Dave.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2008 era.

Yeah, yeah.

There was a moment in the second in the extra time when Italy had broken on us, and Alex Greenwood was absolutely knackered, looked like she was sort of, she was tracking back, but looked like she was so knackered she was just going to dive in and just possibly, you know, give away a penalty or something.

And I was just going, stand up, stand up, stand up.

And they all sort of heard me and they all sort of started laughing.

And then they were going, stand up.

What does that even mean?

And there was a moment where I thought to myself, I could explain it to them, but no, I don't want to do that.

I knocked them out instead.

What a conversation that would have been.

Have you ever heard of the Football Clichés podcast by this afternoon?

Boy, do I have 444 episodes for you.

Right, moving on.

We were talking about potential candidates for players going back to clubs and being their overage player in the reserves the other day, Charlie.

Leeds United are finalising the return of Johnny Housen to the club.

The 37-year-old is set to come back and be a player coach for the club's under 21s.

It's just perfect.

Absolutely perfect.

Loyal servant, 37, could still just about do it.

Great role model.

Love it.

Yeah, yeah, that's spot on.

And it enables me while we're on the earlier old Trafford mix-up, you know, I can share a last season.

First time I ever saw Dean Housen play for Bournemouth early in the season, knew nothing about him, and just kept hearing the name of Dean Hausen winning another header.

I was like, oh, fair play.

Like, you know, he seems like a kind of all-action British centre-back.

I was imagining a kind of cousin of Johnny or something.

Maybe a son.

Dean Hausen.

Son, if he had him really early, I'd be a proper defender.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, I think a lot of people made that mistake.

You're not alone.

Now,

I love this.

I love this in its own tiny little way.

It came from McCargister, and he says, Here's an audience member at a Mark Simmons stand-up show deploying a completely inappropriate bit of both and sounding suspiciously like tactical mastermind Michael Cox.

I'll turkey, but nice beach holiday.

Yeah, a bit of both.

Bit of both.

Pretty sure I only gave you one option.

What a double helping of Cliche's material that is.

That was incredible.

Wow.

Yes.

Not just the voice, but the energy as well.

Yeah, bit of both.

It's right up there with David Walkers.

No pressure.

I love that.

That's a bit keesy.

Yeah.

Not far away, are you?

Let's face it.

This came from listener listener Fred next.

We were talking on a recent Dreamland episode.

In fact, we based a whole entire Dreamland episode about the absurd modern phenomenon of blind ranking and various people in football being forced to blind rank things.

This is Florian...

No, let me rephrase it.

He sent me a video of Florian Wurtz blind ranking potatoes.

whilst on Germany duty.

This is about a year ago.

And

so, I mean,

he he was trying to employ the usual strategy of blind ranking which is not to over commit too early on I think the first the first option he got was chips so he went well I quite like chips put them at number two

then

the second option he got normal potatoes and he put them at number one

normal potatoes at number one and that's where they stayed obviously man

as in as in baked just literally

just on their own normal potatoes presumably boiled at best or just just on their own just raw potatoes there he put them at number one he's mad raw cartoffle he's an he is an absolute loose cannon what's he gonna no one knows what he's gonna do next charlie not even yeah that

that's incredible yeah i mean of all the of all the you know thousands millions of words that have been written about him since joining liverpool that That feels like the most revealing.

Yeah, it should go in the long reach, shouldn't it?

I'm sorry.

Sweet potato Gretan.

I'm sorry we haven't got any room for you.

Oh no, sweet potato.

I don't know why I'm doing this, but I'm going to run you through his entire order.

Normal potatoes at number one, chips at number two, sweet potatoes at number three.

Number four was gratin.

Number five was potato smileys.

Number six was kind of sort of fried potatoes.

Number seven was a different type of gratane.

Number eight, mash.

Number nine, another gratan.

And number ten, knocky.

Three gratans.

Yeah, I don't know what's going on.

I'm doing this.

Come on.

Yeah, absolute madness.

Yeah, it's fine.

But yeah, Florian Vertz Wurtz likes his potatoes straight down the line.

Speaking of Liverpool's transfer activity, Charlie, Michael Hamilton writes in and says, numerous articles this week are stating that Liverpool had got their man when a fee was agreed for Hugo Ekatike, which raised a few queries.

Number one, surely Alexander Isak is their man and not the late interest in Ekotike.

This doesn't feel right to describe a second choice target as your man.

How do you feel about this?

Yeah, I would agree with that.

I think it's another example talking about it on Tuesday's pod where these things just become, people think they can just be used interchangeably, but they're not.

There's a specific reason.

Got their man cannot just be used about any transfer.

The status can't shift to the next man.

It's sacred.

You think it's pretty sacred?

I think a little bit.

It's like, you know,

they've got a man.

I'm not disputing.

They've got a man.

The sort of paradigm of this is transfer saga have been dragging out for months and months and the Sky Sports News reporters outside the ground and go, and after weeks, months of negotiations, Manchester United have got their man.

And ideally, it's a position they've been looking for for ages as well.

It's kind of final piece in the jigsaw type stuff.

Like, Ek and TK, they've already signed Verts.

Like, they've got Salah.

I don't, he's not, he's not their man.

Okay, interesting.

Dave, I agree with Charlie.

There's an overwhelming implication of time having been drawn out over this situation.

Question number two from Michael Hamilton is, on the above, then, how long does a pursuit have to go on in order to constitute being your man?

If either Frankie de Jong or Wesley Snyder now move to Manchester United, do they still count as their men given the long-standing interest, or is it restricted to a single season slash transfer window?

I think it has to be a live issue, doesn't it?

Right.

Maybe I mean, Giokarez has spanned a few uh well at least two transfer windows now.

There was some talk about it sort of.

So Gyokarez is Arsenal summer January.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's the man, no question.

But

yeah, the statute of limitations does not go far enough back to include Wesley Schneider.

If I was more desperate for out of retirement to join Manchester United.

No, absolutely.

If I was more desperate for content today, Charlie, I would have done all 20 Premier League Clubs as men for the year.

From just this window.

Yes, you're absolutely right.

Oh, yeah.

Well, on that point, then, Charlie, if you had interest in a player across a window, but then your interest cooled, or you could get the deal done, and then another window came and you got the deal done again,

do you have to reapply for the status of your your man?

No, I think he's that that player is even kind of more entrenched if it's dragged on that long.

I think it helps if it's like in Arsenal's case.

They haven't signed another striker since they were first linked with Giokarez.

He's still filling that role, that need.

If they'd signed someone else and then they went back for Jokarez, I think it would be slightly different, but

there's still the vacancy.

And you might hear about an instance like that, and Mikel Arteta has got his man because it's a kind of like we know the manager's been really pushing for this player or this position.

I think you hear it more about sporting directors now.

Andrea Berta has got his man.

It's got his man.

It's not your man, it's my man, but fine.

Speaking of Arsenal, Sack of the Man writes in, surprise or quickly enough.

And Charlie says in their write-up on Academy players going on tour with the first team, Arsenal have described youngster Tommy Sepford as an attack-minded goalkeeper.

For my part, you can have attack-minded fullbacks and possibly an attack-minded midfielder, but applying that qualifier to goalkeepers is a step step too far even as someone broadly receptive to the new era of tactical language thoughts yeah i've never heard an attack-minded goalkeeper i mean

you could yeah you could do like you know uh

playing yeah i mean because what what's even that is that trying to say that he's one of those keepers who as soon as he gets he's like launching on

who's going up the corners is he yeah

i mean plays kind of i mean i guess like edison you would describe as an attack-minded goalkeeper in the sense that he gets assists disproportionately to most keepers, and you know, he will get it and kind of launch it to an attacker.

So, I guess if the fact they exist means it's kind of fair enough to describe one like that, assuming Tommy Setford is, and I've got no reason to doubt it.

I don't like it, Dave.

I don't care if it's quick distribution, I don't care if it's kind of progressive distribution.

I just don't want my goalkeepers to be labeled attack-minded.

I think it feels entirely unnecessary.

Yeah, it's a step too far.

Attack-minded.

Keesy would hate this.

Yeah, absolutely hate it.

Have a field day with it.

Yeah.

More on him later on.

This episode is brought to you in association with NordVPN.

For those who don't know, VPN stands for Virtual Private Network.

It secures your connection, protecting your personal information and online activity, especially on public Wi-Fi.

A VPN can also make your phone or laptop appear as if it's in another country, which is great for accessing content while traveling.

Very much like MV Sizz here, Charlie, who caught this NBC promo for the US coverage of the new Premier League season.

Fairly standard, appetite-wetting fare throughout, until this line at the end.

The Premier League is back, and we're going straight from beach mode to Beast Mode.

The stars are ready, the clubs are hungry, and the fans look at the scenes!

Completely

It seems both slightly, slightly wrong, Charlie, and also not a very American thing to say.

It's like he was briefly possessed or something.

They are completely mental.

Mental.

There was a bit of that which sounded like Charlie doing an American accent and doing an approximation

of a promo.

Yeah, he really did.

He's got a very promo voice.

You should get into the game, I think.

If you want to try NordVPN for yourself, go to nordvpn.com/slash cliches, and our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan.

It's the best discount available.

There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee, and the link is also in the podcast description if you need it.

We'll be back very shortly.

That's the sound of the fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron and the quiet confidence of ultra-smooth handling.

The elevated interior reminds you this is more than an EV.

This is electric performance redefined.

It's time to head back to school and forward to your future with Carrington College.

For over 55 years, we've helped train the next generation of healthcare professionals.

Apply now to get hands-on training from teachers with real-world experience.

And as few as nine months, you could start making a difference in healthcare.

Classes start soon in Pleasant Hill, San Leandro, and San Jose.

Visit Carrington.edu to see what's next for you.

Visit carrington.edu slash SCI for information on program outcomes.

Welcome back to Football Clichés.

This is the Midweek Adjudication Panel.

Very much the Reddit thread of the week in my eyes, Dave.

Football articles that we categorically do not need to read ever again from Jackson Keir.

Here's some examples that he gave.

Rory DeLap's long throw-ins.

Wasn't Andrea Pilo Cool.

How La Masia Works.

The 2-4-3s between Liverpool and Newcastle in the mid-90s.

The time David James went up front.

Yes, as much as I love it.

And they love Chris Waddell in Marseille.

I don't know if I've read enough about that, actually, to be honest.

This is a great thread.

I mean, I was having this thought actually the other day because i was thinking like next year will be 30 years since you're in 96 and i was thinking like i do just think there's not really anything left to say about it like it is it is it was great we've talked about it endlessly since but there will surely be an impulse from lots of places to do it to feel like well it's 30 years we've we've got to do something and you'll get the kind of the same voices telling the same stories and and it does tie into something wider which i've thought for a while is that the the problem that there is in kind of football media is that you have people who either talk way too much or way too little.

And there's very little in between.

So the same people you hear from disproportionately often.

And if you could get to these people who you never really hear from, great.

But 90% of the time, you're hearing people because they're available, they'll talk.

And so you're just hearing kind of the same stories.

And just so you can claim the same quotes as your own, as your own, basically.

Teddy Sherringham will say exactly the same thing again if you pay him his fee and he'll do it happily, probably at a golf course.

The thing is, with anniversaries, that's such a that's such just an endless treadmill of stuff because there was 20 years, the 20-year anniversary of Euro 96, there was, I think, there was a documentary and there was plenty of articles and pieces around that.

There was a load of stuff from the 25th anniversary.

I remember doing a 25th anniversary podcast with Alan Shearer at the Athletic, where he spoke to all of his old teammates and largely told the same stories that we've already heard about, you know, how Terry was great with, you know, galvanizing the squad and making a siege mentality against the media after the trip to Hong Kong and, you know, how

the streets were lined with fans on the coach, on the way into Wembley, at all the games, and how Three Lions.

Three Lions.

We've heard Skinner and Bedil talk about the moment they heard Three Lions sung in the stands for the first time so many times.

They don't want to talk about it anymore.

Like, you know, they've reached the saturation point.

I mean, even in the 2020 COVID lockdown, I remember there was quite a lot of Euro 96 stuff.

Right.

Do you remember like the BBC showed it?

There were various articles and things because it was kind of like, well, there's anything that's going on.

The big 24th anniversary of Euro 96.

Anniversary journalism, Charlie, is a bit like having a bag of sweets, basically.

Like, it must be tempting to use them up quickly.

But you think, no, no, no, save it.

But when you get to the 20-year mark, you think, we could do a 20th.

No, don't do it.

Keep the powder dry.

Do it on the 25th.

Don't do it.

You'll regret it.

There is something about it, though.

Like, I think, I don't know what study it would have been, but I think 20 is quite a potential.

It's good for me, I think.

More so than the 25th.

Big on the nostalgia acts for the 20-year anniversaries.

Yeah, for sure.

But then, yeah, you get waves, you just get waves and waves and waves of it.

But I think there's a good point made on the Reddit by Last Saint.

He says, the thing is, as with many of these suggestions, there are stories from Euro 96 that would be worth reading.

You know, a long read about the Czechs making the final, the nature of the Dutch capitulation.

I mean, even, you know, in a more sort of serious sense, like everyone forgets that

the bombing in Manchester, the day of the England-Scotland game, like an incredible story, piece of history.

And yet we will just get another documentary about Gazza.

and Shearer and Sheringham and all that.

Elsewhere, Callum JP, Charlie, says, football adjacent, but I've heard more than enough versions of Duncan Ferguson putting two burglars in hospital.

Ali G L C F C says the tale of the infamous slice of pizza that was thrown at Sir Alex Ferguson.

Tam Syndrome replies with, it was a whole pizza, wasn't it?

And then someone says, well, we need an article to clarify this.

It was just a slice, wasn't it?

I don't know.

I think it was more than just a slice.

There was also a great comment in there about like, I swear Cess Fabregas has been revealed as the man behind it about 15 times, which I did really enjoy.

Boxing Day 1963, says Zach Infenmer, the one with all the goals.

Yeah, maybe we should have, you know, sort of a moratorium on some of these pieces.

Next up, I swear this is now the most auctioned-off game in football history.

Peter Shilton is auctioning his shirt from the 1986 World Cup game against Argentina, the quarterfinal, the infamous game, Hand of God, and all that.

It's an and all that game, right?

Yeah, I think so.

And a 40-year anniversary next year, so more of that to come.

But the thing is, unless you're Argentinian, is that a great shirt to have?

Peter Shilton's shirt in his lowest moment.

What I would say is, I mean, prestige or not, and it's got an estimated estimated sale price of up to £300,000, Dave.

It is a banging goalkeeper shirt.

I've always thought it looked incredible.

The shoulder pads, the sort of silvery sheen to it, the shorts are incredible.

I presume they're not included.

But

it's an underrated goalkeeper shirt, and it's overshadowed by the events of that day, in my eyes.

It is.

A few more Dreamland subscribers, hey, you can get yourself in there with the bidding.

I've booked Centre Parks now.

I can't afford anything.

But yeah, good luck to Schiltz.

Hope Hope he gets what he deserves.

Right, Alec Thompson writes in next.

Quite simple one for you, Charlie.

Is Chief Secretary to the Treasury Darren Jones the most linesman-sounding politician?

I haven't had the time to consult a list of MPs yet, but it could well be.

I'm going to say yes.

Yeah.

That's a great shout.

I think we can safely say yes.

How about this from Anon Ben, Dave?

Why doesn't the goalkeeper get mentioned by name when they spill the ball?

The Italian goalkeeper just spilled a shot with the commentator not mentioning her name, instead opting for the goalkeeper spills it or something similar.

If a striker misses a sitter, a midfielder misplaces a pass or a defender fouls someone, they always get mentioned by their name.

But when a keeper spills a shot, they are referenced by their position.

When are other players referenced by their positions?

This is absolutely spot on.

It's so weird.

We had a clip the other day where a commentator referred to is it a Birmingham player?

The gentleman fires it in or whatever.

So if it ever happens to

another position, yeah, oh, and the striker follows up, you'd think that it was some sort of error and they couldn't identify the goal scorer.

Generic video game commentary or something.

Yeah, the goalkeeper is just kind of gets away with it and it's fine.

But yeah, you do see this quite a lot, Charlie, where a specific goalkeeper is just referred to as the keeper in passing.

I think you would hear that quite a lot.

But I suppose you might hear the defender gets across.

Maybe

if they're not referring to the player specifically, they're referring to what they're they're doing to the player they're actually talking about.

The defender gets crossed just in time.

Or you might say, and he leaves the defender for dead.

And you wouldn't think that they're talking, they don't know who the defender is.

It's just a kind of...

Because they're not the sort of centerpiece of the action protagonist of it, are they?

Yeah.

They're slightly on the periphery of it.

Right, next up, this might be the exception that proves the rule for why we don't really have footballers on Mezz at Harland Dicks on this podcast, because they very rarely have anything interesting to say.

But maybe Troy Deany does.

This is the thing that I learned

in the prem.

So you do like passive drills, and you'd go like one touch bag, one touch bag.

You wanted to hear, do,

do, do.

That's what you wanted to.

You wanted to hear touch on that for out quick.

Dub doob, doop.

And I remember we had Marco Silver, and he did this passive drill, and it must have went, doob, do, do.

He went, whoa, whoa, whoa.

You weren't even watching.

So what the fk was that?

That is sick, you know.

Sorry, I just want to.

Because I don't think I've heard it explained as in music.

Yeah.

This is an incredibly perceptive story, Dave, and the sort of thing I would never have thought about.

And it gets to the crux of what I want to know from footballers.

What are the minor sensations that only you know about that we would never be able to fathom?

And this is basically one of them.

Yeah, so this is, I think Georgini was talking to Bayoak and Femwa there on the Beast Mode podcast.

And it's mad to think that, you know, a manager like Marco Silva could tell just from the sound of the rhythm of the passing that the training wasn't quite up to.

That's a great part of the story.

The idea he just sort of turned around, went, what?

No.

Fuck, what's the fuck's that?

That's like standards.

That's what, like, inherently DNA level standards in the prem is great.

And it should be so ingrained in his mind that it would instantly jump out at him.

And it is that little thing of like, I've sort of seen the longer clip as well, and they're talking about, as professionals, as two players who have spent a lot of time playing in the EFL.

Deani obviously got hit decent heights in the Premier League, but players that have played at a lower level as well, and when they got to that top level, and Bayo's played against teams in the FA Cup and stuff, it's like even for them, they're impressed by the speed and the fizz.

of the passing from just from like the centre back who's just in easy possession just fires it into the midfield you always hear people talk about that as well it's like those little things the levels that even we've watched thousands of football matches between us we still can't really comprehend those little details unless you've actually played that's the real stuff it's like you never played the game.

You don't know.

I mean, again, this is a sentiment you hear a lot, Charlie.

You've never played the game and it gets fired at referees.

It probably gets fired at, I don't know, radio phone-in callers or whatever.

It has logic to it, but it gets dismissed a lot as kind of elitism when it comes to kind of football knowledge.

But it's these sorts of stories that...

that should be more proliferated when it explains to us why we don't get what it's like to be a professional footballer because we don't get it obviously we have absurd opinions about footballers but and and they should come back with more stuff like this.

It's gold.

It's really good.

I know.

If you could draw out, what I think is hard is that they wouldn't necessarily know what's really interesting.

And you need a kind of intermediary to

let these two have a long conversation and be like, okay, that, that's fascinating to me as someone who's never played elite football.

Like, you remember little detail, like

very small details.

And like, I remember so vividly.

Player, and this is even more basic, but just I remember years ago, Chelsea, as they often do in the third round of the FA Cup, played a far lower league team.

And one of the players asked, what's the biggest difference about playing a Premier League team?

And he said, Ashley Cole's fitness and energy, the way he got up and down was just like unlike anything I'd ever seen before.

It was like mind-blowing.

And that's not something I'm sure everyone in the game would know that.

They'd say, oh, Ash, yeah, he was unbelievable.

But like, we'd never pick up, like...

We'd never see that.

You'd just see, you just think like, oh, yeah, he was.

More visceral stuff that you didn't see in the flesh and be in close quarters with.

I don't know.

It makes me think of of all the sort of stuff that we're not privy to, that professional footballers who play four or five hundred games, Dave, might just have ingrained in their brain as irritations.

I don't know, something like this.

I don't know.

Whenever you got flagged offside, out on the wing, but the linesman was behind you, and all you could hear was the ruffle of the flag.

Something like that.

That's the sort of shit I want on MHD.

Imagine if someone piped up with that.

We got some Barclaysmen on.

That'd be brilliant.

I would be beside myself.

That would be the episode title.

It would be brilliant.

Charlie's mate, Peepo Inzagi, on for for that one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right, next up, a story from a policeman, no less, that justifies the last year or two of my life, at least.

He says, I'm a detective for a police force on the south coast and found myself having to watch two hours of CC TV from a local kebab house.

About five minutes into the footage, a member of staff came out from behind the counter and turned the telly onto a football match.

Obviously, I immediately stopped concentrating on what I was supposed to be watching and started trying to work out what the game was.

It was fairly easy to work out the two teams, Nigeria and Argentina.

I was also absolutely convinced it was an American stadium.

I settled on the group stage game at USA 94, but then I saw Kanu.

I was stumped.

Of course, I'd forgotten about the Atlanta Olympics.

Queue a 96 Olympics rabbit hole whilst watching the full game and completely ignoring the potential interaction between my two suspects.

I had a really hard time not talking about the football in the interview when the suspects were later arrested.

Ah!

What?

This is incredible.

Fair play.

I would count.

I know what I'm watching if if I'm studying that CCTV footage, so I don't blame him at all.

That's amazing, yeah.

The Atlanta Olympics.

They won it as well, didn't they?

Nigeria, I think.

Yeah.

I mean, in a way, Charlie, it's dereliction of his duty as a detective for this police force on the south coast.

He's fronting up here, fair play.

Yeah.

But at the same time, eventually it

proves his credentials as a hotshot detective.

That's eye for detail.

That might come in useful.

Yeah, good process.

Just wasn't directly what he should.

I mean, yeah, that was an amazing interpretation.

That was my first time I ever saw Ronaldo, yes,

who I think was called Ronaldinho at that time.

It was on the back of his shirt, Ronaldinho, and on the graphics on the TV, yeah, class.

Yeah, I'm, yeah, which is, I, and I remember, and then being confused, I was then saw him a year later or something, he's Ronaldo.

Is that that guy from the Olympics?

Yeah, it should be Ronaldow now, shouldn't he?

Really?

You were there in the kebab house, weren't you?

You were watching Nigeria beat Argentina from the Olympics, weren't you?

Who are Argentina's over-age players in the United States Olympics, mate?

I don't think so.

Right, finally, Joe Wood writes in, Dave, and says, My daughter finished year five last week and claims she is now a year six.

Are we having that?

When does this season become last season?

Daring Milk replied with, for me, it's August bank holiday, a weekend when attention turns to next term.

What if they announce the curriculum on?

The pre-season.

Yeah.

That's a great question.

My own child asked me the same thing.

She's finished year one.

She says, I'm now year two.

And I said, you're not.

You're not year two yet.

It doesn't start until the first day of the term.

You're nothing, you're in limbo.

Don't wish your days away.

Yeah,

it's a short career.

Oh, yeah, standing by it.

Um, anyway, speaking of rolling back the years, it's time for a little Keys and Grey Corner.

Couldn't resist this, could have saved it for next week, but I'm not going to.

It's some retro keys in grey all the way back to mid-lockdown 2020.

And this is the top item on episode 42 of the Keys in Grey Show.

And you wouldn't believe what we've just been talking about.

Well, perhaps we should let you into the inner sanctum.

We're about to, with our guest today at Manchester United.

So, eggs, three and a half minutes.

Yes.

Yes.

Because, you see, I find, though, Richard, three and a half asked you what your perfect egg is, boiled eggs.

Three and a half minutes.

That would have been my normal.

But what I found, you see, if it's the large eggs, yes.

Right?

If it's the large eggs.

Large free range.

Oh, obviously.

Yes.

Yeah.

Organic, if I can.

Yes.

So if it's a large egg, three and a half minutes is perfect.

But if it's a small egg, I think three and a half minutes, my yolk's a bit too firm.

From boiling.

Yes, from boiling.

Which is important.

That's important.

And yes, the other question you you asked me.

Big potatoes.

You can use the smaller potatoes.

I tend to slice the top through them so they've got room to expand.

Just a little cross.

Yeah, just a couple of lines.

And you can use the smaller ones.

I always give them 10 minutes in the microwave, but I always add

an extra minute or two in the oven to crisp the shell.

Oh, I don't do the oven better at the end.

It's very good.

And beans and cheese?

Oh, to die for.

Me too.

We can't dwell too much on this,

having used the time that we've got for the cookery class, but I'll just run you through a few of these because they're fascinating.

It's like Troy Dini talking about the rhythm of footballs all again.

This is the sort of granular detail we want on this podcast.

Get them on, Dave.

Get them on.

So many tiny appeals for clarification during that.

Just a little cut.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

To die for.

Because, you know, Charlie, being insiders have told me that this is the sort of granular chat that Keys and Gray have all the time about football or not.

So

they're filled with the golf clubs.

Yeah, exactly.

They're advanced football brains.

And, you know, it does make me wonder.

I think they'd do a great joint MHD, you know.

Yeah, they really would.

So, sorry, this was in during lockdown

2020.

They were just sort of filling time.

It's very

2020, isn't it?

Yeah.

Other than that, it was just endless sort of headlines about clubs wanting to start the season again, all that sort of stuff.

So they had to fill the time somehow.

We were all scraping the barrel up then.

Anyway, thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshaire.

Thank you.

Thanks to you, Dave Walker.

Thank you.

Thanks to everyone for listening.

The Cliche's Pod will be back on Tuesday.

See you then.

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.