Stopping Celeste's flame, pre-season lingo & Jhon Duran's reverse-gear career

At blinds.com, it's not just about window treatments, it's about you, your style, your space, your way.

Whether you DIY or want the pros to handle it all, you'll have the confidence of knowing it's done right.

From free expert design help to our 100% satisfaction guarantee, everything we do is made to fit your life and your windows.

Because at blinds.com, the only thing we treat better than windows is you.

Visit blinds.com now for up to 50% off with minimum purchase plus a professional measure at no cost.

Rules and restrictions apply.

You're juggling a lot.

Full-time job, side hustle, maybe a family.

And now you're thinking about grad school?

That's not crazy.

That's ambitious.

At American Public University, we respect the hustle and we're built for it.

Our flexible online master's programs are made for real life because big dreams deserve a real path.

Learn more about APU's 40-plus career-relevant master's degrees and certificates at apu.apus.edu.

APU, built for the hustle.

I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like.

Is Gascoyne gonna have a crack?

He is, you know.

Oh, I think

brilliant.

But jeez!

He's round the goalkeeper.

He done it!

Absolutely incredible!

He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was eye without a shadow of a doubt getting him lip.

Oh, save!

It's amazing!

He does it tame and tame and tame again.

Break up the music!

Charge a glass!

This nation is going to dance all night!

Someone's finally stopped Celeste's flame.

The club we really should have predicted would sign a nine-goal striker called Vivaldo.

The mouth-watering prospect of substituted players being interviewed during live games next season.

John Duran and Tammy Abraham enter the Turkish Super League vortex.

Conor McNamara on free kick wall building, dangerous transfer market precedents being set by club fan accounts, schools banning catch-up like their Premier League clubs, and slightly underwhelming Euro Under-21's heroes.

Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts, this is Football Clichés.

Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés.

I'm Adam Hurry, this is the adjudication panel.

Joining me first of all, all the way from Wimbledon is Charlie Ekleshare.

How are you doing and how was your weekend?

I'm good And my weekend featured a rare highlight, an FMS in the wild.

I was at one of my kids' friends' birthday parties, chatting to one of the other dads and sort of talking about what we did.

I asked him.

Good setting like this.

Yeah, yeah, it was perfect.

And he said, I'm an academic for my sins, which was

kind of the perfect profession, I thought.

I mean, we've discussed it at length before, but I think, yeah, he's also a physics professor.

I was going to say, because

you might have to specify the field as as well, but no, just the entire sort of

academia itself.

Exactly.

But yeah, I think physics even more so.

That works, I think, because it's a sacrifice in many ways.

You give a lot of yourself to it.

So, much like this podcast, I think.

But yeah, okay, yeah.

Yeah, but the setup for that was perfect.

That's exactly where For My Sins is born.

Classic Small Talk.

Alongside you for this one is David Walker.

How are you doing?

I'm good, yeah.

Had a good weekend watching Glastonbury.

And, you know, there's a few other bits that we'll talk about, cliches-related stuff for Glastonbury.

But I was having the very typical predictable conversation with somebody on Friday talking about the headliners and, like, you know, who we would book if we were in charge of booking the headliners.

And we were trying to come up, we were trying to sort of think, like, who are like the big kind of heritage acts that are still out there who could still do it on the pyramid stage.

And we were debating whether Bob Dylan could be one that you would go for in future years.

And there was some debate as to whether, you know, is he still vital enough and got enough of a show to do the pyramid stage, but he's definitely too big for the Sunday headliners slot.

So we reached a conclusion that he is essentially, at the moment, the musical equivalent of being too good for the championship, not good enough for the Premier League.

And then I was thinking, oh, but Bob Dylan, that doesn't really, hasn't really worked for a footballer's name, does it?

But Robert Zimmerman, however...

His real name, it's perfect.

He could be the brother of the former Norwich Centre half, who was indeed too good for the championship, not good enough for the Premier League.

Yeah, it could be a sit-back Dave.

Yeah, yeah, I agree that yeah, even Bobby Dylan doesn't work.

No, not even in England under 21, Bobby Dylan.

Um, no, he's definitely lost a yard of pace.

Um, wouldn't have it as a headliner.

On the Glasto line-up, though, on Sunday, at a very appropriate time of mid-afternoon, Dave, was Celeste.

And um, a lot of people turned up, presumably hoping for one specific song.

And she wearily acknowledged this as well.

Okay,

you've got one more, you've got one more little crazy one, or two more little crazy ones.

But I mean,

I know what you're game for, so don't worry, you're gonna get it.

They didn't get it, she didn't play it.

How can you not play Stop This Flame?

I had more than one person who was there messaging me in real time saying, Oh, I'm not sure we're gonna get it, I'm not sure we're gonna get it, this set's gonna be finished soon, she's not playing it.

And there were I was sent photos as well of multiple lads in football shirts who had turned up.

This was half twelve on Sunday, so probably still still, probably quite hungover and kind of really getting, you know, nice one to ease yourself into the day.

But she, yeah, she didn't, despite that little tease there, she didn't play Stop This Flame.

Just waiting for those opening piano bars, Charlie.

This is like Ronaldo not being on the team sheet for the 1998 World Cup final.

I've been handed the set list here.

I mean, how long did she play for?

Because it's quite a long time.

About an hour.

Right, okay, yeah, it's quite a long time to sit just waiting for that.

So, and so do we think she just

was teasing, or she just thought she was referring to another song.

I mean, what's going on there?

She's referring to another song.

You couldn't say that and not deliver.

So, I'm really concerned.

Um, maybe she's moved on.

Maybe we've moved on.

Maybe she's got a little conception of just how big it is.

I was thinking on that song, right?

Do you think when the time comes, if that song is moved on, that it will

die?

It will take on a greater significance in the it's been about five, six years that it's been around this year, yeah.

Yeah, and what other thing do we have to sort of label this recent period in premier league history because there's no sponsor so you can't have like the barclaysman sort of thing could you could the celeste years be a thing the stop this flame era does it have anything about it this

is the premier league charlie to actually warrant being sort of ring-fenced as a mini era i don't know what would you characterize you know apart from celeste stop this flame what characterizes this mini era of the premier league that's a big question so what are we going from like 2019 are we saying what arbitrarily 2019?

Yeah, this is the Liverpool City sort of 95-point era.

I don't know.

Yeah, I mean, is it the kind of PSR?

Yeah.

The PSR era.

Is it the kind of playing out from the back?

Like, you know, that became the thing or the kind of...

Because a lot of people bemoan this era, don't they?

They say it's too

coached and

sort of identicated.

That might be it, to be fair.

So when it all sort of reached a saturation point of tactical precision, perhaps.

But then I think, but the nature of doing it in advance means nostalgia kicks in.

And I think all those gripes, like in the same way, it's not like during the Barclays era, we're all constantly sort of talking about these guys as like cult heroes.

I think that comes over time.

Yeah.

So there'd be some like fondness of this era.

I don't think sort of what that would be.

Stockley Park era.

Yeah.

Yeah, VAR.

Yeah.

Of course.

Let's rewind a few episodes, though, to this.

This is Dan Walker's football-coded slip on Classic FM.

This is Classic FM from Global.

It's Wednesday morning.

This is Dan Walker with Classic FM Breakfast.

I have so much brilliant music for you today.

Schubert and Vivaldo.

Vivaldi volo Tchaikovsky.

We briefly pondered, Charlie, who Vivaldo might play for, this mythical Brazilian figure.

And lo and behold, in the Watford Observer last week, Watford set to sign striker Vivaldo Somedo from Udenesi.

How did we not see this coming?

It's got it written all over it.

Yeah, a great moment.

I hope Dan Walker knows.

One of the other headlines for this transfer rumor, Dave, and I'm not saying he's not going to be a hit at Vicarage Road, was Watford linked to nine goal striker Vivaldo.

You can't have nine goals.

No, I mean, hey, by our recent standards, we'll take him.

But if our social media team have got anything about them, they'll be on the phone to Dan Walker.

ASAP.

Charlie, what is the threshold for being ex-goal striker in a headline?

Is it, I mean, even 15 feels a bit stupid.

It's got to be 90 or more, right?

Nine goals.

I guess could slightly depend on the position.

It might be lower for a midfielder, but two assists as well, I understand.

So 11 goal involvement.

11 goal involvement, man.

But yeah, many players in demand this summer.

And hopefully for Ribblesdale Rovers, that will be the case all the way down in the Southern Sunday League.

Dave, you put out a come and get me plea on the Reddit.

Had any bites yet?

Well, it's more of a come and get you plea, I suppose, isn't it?

For me me putting it out there yes I did post on the Reddit over the weekend it is that time of year.

We are as always every summer always looking for new recruits to boost the ranks.

So if you do fancy playing a bit of Sunday league on Clapham Common on Sunday mornings get in touch send me a DM and we'll get you involved.

Over the last sort of couple of years a lot of recruits that we've had to the team have come via the pod.

So you'll be in good company if you do decide to join up.

Can I just use this opportunity to ask to raise something that's

we've I don't think we've gone into on the pod before, maybe we have, but the increased almost ubiquity of no dickheads policy.

Do you hear you hear this so much?

I just think, like, I mean, presumably, Dave, you've got a no-dickheads policy.

Like, in a way, doesn't, I mean, I know not everyone does, but it feels like that's become such a thing to talk about a manager or a club or an ethos.

And

it's implicit, I would say, with us.

Yeah.

Yeah, I would say.

Like, haven't we?

Aren't there too many?

Like, where are all the dickheads going?

I feel like they're a wow.

Um, did it come from the All Blacks?

Did they invent the news?

Yeah, that's where that's where it was first talked about, yeah.

Yeah, of course it did, of course, it came from rugby.

Um, speaking of pleas, here's a come and see us plea clichés going live in 2025.

In this October, we're going to be in Brighton, Cardiff, Hackney Empire in London, Birmingham, Dublin, Manchester, Leeds, which is, I think, is sold out, or maybe a few more tickets left.

So get in there if you can.

And Glasgow, the eighth date Football Cliches Live tour in October 2025.

Also, you can become a Dreamland member for just $5.99 a month.

You get ad-free listening, two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive new show, pre-sale access to football clichés live tickets, and free entry to clichés quiz live events.

We're going to be announcing some more quizzes very soon, I believe.

Right, time for the adjudication panel proper.

Charlie, the big news for the 2025-26 Premier League season in terms of big broadcasting innovations, it will be that touchline interviews with substituted players will appear for the first time.

What a development that will be.

I can't wait.

I can't wait for the first one.

What are they going to say?

I've heard this being sort of pushed for in other sports as well.

And

I know it comes from other sports.

Yeah, I mean, I'd sort of be amazed if there was much.

I mean, mate, is the idea that they'll be so kind of emotional and still hot that maybe they, you know, will just come out and say stuff, you know, without having the normal normal cooling off periods.

Oh, well, crucially, Dave, they will be given a chance to cool off before they are interviewed, which kind of ruins it.

Yeah, yeah.

I'd quite like it if they were sort of doorstepped, like they were some sort of politician involved in some sort of scandal.

So literally, the second they come off the pitch and they're kicking the water bottle, you've got a microphone in your face.

Gary Cotterill's there going, Mr.

Rashford, Mr.

Rashford, chasing him down the tunnel.

Why were you substituted, Mr.

Rashford?

Will you appear for Manchester United's first team again, Mr.

Rashford?

I mean, obviously, Charlie, sort of angrily substituted players

aren't going to be up for this.

So there's going to be some seriously middle-of-the-road interviews going on here, but it will be sort of, yeah, no,

I did my best.

And

hopefully,

Steve-O.

Steve-O?

That one's called that.

What era and what level of football is this?

I don't know.

Again, it was very all blacks.

Yeah, you know,

I've put in an hour and hopefully helped the team.

But how will it work?

Because presumably you don't want to preempt it.

If you're a manager or the press guy going up to Blaney and be like, there's a decent chance you're going to be coming off after an hour.

You're happy to do an interview if so.

When are they going to broach this?

There's a chance as well, depending on how they time it.

I think we're going to have...

Broadcasters are going to have to be sort of mindful of the flow of the game because you could have

a Steve McLaren on Sky Sports News moment where they're being talked to and and then there's a goal goes in like while they're being talked to against their team or something yeah I don't think you can schedule it that well so that it there's a real danger that could happen but I mean Dave this is broadly made for players who have scored twice and maybe set up another one and come off to a standing ovation in the 83rd minute.

Oh but then you've not got the 83rd minute, you know, you haven't got a long time to play with.

You've got to really get in there.

This is surely this you know the 60th minute substitute where you've got half an hour to schedule it in is more convenient.

I guess this is this is going to pad out the petering out period for a lot of viewers, Charlie.

You know, when the game gets really boring.

Yeah, but maybe this is what it's for, just a bit of extra content while the game peters out.

I mean,

yeah, it's kind of mad in a way because if it is basically like if you can't wait, you know, 20 minutes to hear platitudes from player X,

you can get it now.

Like, when you just, you cannot wait.

And look, maybe there will be some times where, you know, there is a really heartwarming story and you do want to hear it.

Are you going to sit next to them in the comfy seats on the bench?

How's it going to work?

Are they going to summon them out back into the tunnel?

The practicalities are endless, potentially.

I dare a broadcaster to do a blind ranking with a player on the touchline of the players in the match.

Elsewhere, Pablo gets in touch, Dave, and says, Carlisle United have clearly given up hope for the season already.

They tweeted some lovely pictures from their preseason training with the caption, going through the motions.

Oh, no.

Yeah, I see what you're trying.

I see what you're going for there, but you have made quite a specific mistake.

Literally, Dave, there, not even appreciating a picture of two players running and an emoji of a man running and then going through the motions.

It doesn't fill your fans' hearts with a great deal of enthusiasm, I imagine.

That's so good.

So, what this just

putting through their paces

just, yeah, got the throw-in, but everything.

We can't use putting through their paces.

We used that last season.

Can you think a different one?

No, no, nothing, nothing.

Elsewhere, the transfers are coming thick and fast now as we enter July.

Fabrizio Romano has been busy.

He says it's all over between John Duran and Al Nasser.

Who saw this coming?

And he is, of course, Charlie, off to Fenabace.

This is class.

Absolutely class.

Yeah, this is a weird sort of...

Yeah, just sort of working his way back.

And he's played in MLS as well, hasn't he, Duran?

So, yeah, this is a...

He's getting it all out of the way early.

Extraordinary.

Dan Wiseman writes in, David says, I would like to point out for the next pod that this means by the tender age of 21, John Duran will have boxed off Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and MLS.

If his career is indeed playing out in reverse, what does that mean is next?

A middling Serie A club, West Ham, a European giant.

I just can't read it.

He'd nearly joined West Ham, of course.

They bid for him when he was at Villa.

Yeah, I guess he.

Turkey feels weird because his stock was still surely high enough for him to come back to the Premier League.

But it feels you don't, you don't tend to go to Turkey and then come back to the Premier League, do you?

Could you do like an Os if it's like a reverse Os because Ossime did

and then went to Turkey.

Could Napoli be his next move?

And then from there, who knows?

Yeah, Saria

does feel about right.

I mean, the only explanation, and this is semi-serious here, Dave, is that Turkey is like a parachute wage-wise.

Like, he's clearly on silly money at Al-Nasa.

No one's going to pay him that.

So you've got to go to Turkey to get halfway and then suddenly take another drop and then come to a team who are actually serious about playing football.

Yeah, I mean, you'd get paid more in a Premier League, though, wouldn't you?

In Turkey.

I'm not sure.

I don't know.

Like, I feel...

Because to be like breaking your wage structure.

It's a wage structure thing rather than usually how much you can afford.

But it is a curiously sort of backwards career.

MLS should never come first.

What's going on?

Let's stick with Turkish football.

Here is us back in May talking about Tammy Abraham's career prospects.

Which of the Turkish big three is he, though?

I think he's...

Fenobace?

I don't know.

I mean, Galatasarai is what came into my head, but there's no real reason for that.

I don't think he's for Siktas.

I I just don't think he is.

But I think because Galatasarai are the most sort of, they'll play an English team in the Champions League and upset them, and he might pop up with a goal or a moment to kind of haunt them.

Could he be Istanbul Basikshahir?

Oh, an outside shout.

White light.

Yes, absolutely could be.

How much more wrong could we have been here?

Because Tammy Abraham is on the brink of signing for Basiktas, Dave.

There you go.

You just couldn't picture it.

But it has happened for some reason.

He does look strange in the Photoshop kit, Charlie.

So, you know, I'm still not massively convinced it feels right.

Basiktas just doesn't have the same

recent heft.

Like, Galatasaray,

there are just so many players who've made that move.

Basiktas feels more of a throwback.

I think of players going there sort of back in the day rather than now.

Their kit is quite Fulham-y, actually.

Basiktas.

So I like that aspect of it.

The next move could be Fulham after this.

Speaking of players going from Turkey to the Premier League, I wouldn't rule out a return for him still at some point.

Can't believe I was so sure about it.

but this just goes to show we need to stay in our lane.

We are not transfer gurus.

We don't know the market.

We don't know what's going on behind the scenes.

Shouldn't speculate.

Well maybe we should.

The Club World Cup now.

Jürgen Klopp has branded the Club World Cup the worst idea ever implemented in football.

Who's shot back at Jürgen Klopp?

Only Cavi Solikol on Skysports News.

Not everybody agrees with Jürgen Klopp.

And also, the other thing I would say to Jürgen Klopp is, if you don't like the Club World Cup, don't watch it.

everybody can do what they want you can play paddle you can go for a swim uh you can watch something else on TV maybe watch Netflix go for a walk go for a nice meal if you don't want to watch Chelsea versus Ben Fica don't watch it it's a free world

weirdly impassioned speech there Charlie why was this why was this ever broadcast it was tweeted out deleted and then tweeted out again is that right yeah weird yeah I mean I have some issues with the argument being made here think you do.

But

it's frustrating because it's the sort of thing that a lot of people will think is like really smart.

And he obviously thinks he's making a kind of, you know, just the common sense argument, which I don't really think is the case.

I don't, Dave, I don't think going out for a nice meal is a substitute for watching the entirety of the Club World Cup.

You're going to have to find some other stuff to do.

That's a couple of hours, Mac.

Sure, but it's not an either-or thing as well.

I don't think Jürgen Klopp was saying, I can't stop myself from watching it.

I hate it, but I feel compelled to watch.

I think it's, you know, he's kind of missing the point slightly here, isn't he?

Propping up his phone against the glass while he has his dinner.

How did he look into Dazone?

Don't know.

While playing Paddle.

Yeah, this row did rumble on, Dave, because when I was sort of researching the background to this little furore, I found another story, and it began with, Ben Foster has waded into the debate on the Club World Cup that was sparked by Jurgen Klopp.

I don't need Ben Foster to wade into this.

I'm all right.

What was his take?

He was on Klopp's Klopp's side, I think.

Yeah, he defended Klopp.

He said, isn't Cave Solicol supposed to be an SSN reporter?

Somebody who reports news impartially, not somebody who gives their personal opinions on said news?

I'd say Jogen Klopp probably has a bit of credit in the bank when it comes to having an opinion on anything football related.

On all things football.

All things football.

But yeah, I'm glad Ben Foster has wrapped up this sarga for us Dave because there's nowhere else for it to go now.

He's had his say.

He's broken his silence.

Yeah, the man that we all wanted to hear from on this topic.

Absolutely.

Let's stick with the Club World Cup.

This came from Mark, and here is some slightly too specific product placement from the US Dezone coverage of Inter Milan versus River Plate.

We're skipping all the way through.

Oh, and there is Bastani.

He can get you so many ways.

And that left foot should have a Lloyds of London insurance policy.

It's that good.

Do you need to specify the financial institution, Charlie?

I would say no.

Wow, yeah, I don't think I've heard that before.

No?

This guy, yeah, he's across the insurance world.

Yeah, fair play.

Maybe it sort of lands a bit more softly in the US, Dave.

Yeah.

I wonder whether this US commentator is a wrestlingman.

That is...

I've heard that Lloyds of London thing is like a thing.

All the wrestlers used to get policies out with Lloyds of London.

So if they got injured, they would never, you know, they get taken care of.

They could only get it from that one specific place.

I could be reading too much into it, but I think that could be the case.

Well, good to know know that the City of London has worldwide respect when it comes to this sort of thing.

I didn't know Alessandro Bastoni's left foot was worthy of this sort of thing actually to be honest.

Strange all round.

But next up, this is some footballers' names in things.

It came from No Peach on Reddit.

Here is John C.

Riley talking about the making of Walk Hard, the Dewey Cox story.

I think we wrote 35 original songs in six months, like before we started shooting.

I mean, a lot of people don't write 35 songs in their whole career.

We had this amazing stable of songwriters and musicians around the movie.

You know, Mike Andrews and Mike Viola and Dan Byrne.

What a month he's having.

The film was bent in 2007.

What 18 years Dan Byrne has had.

What a life.

Yeah, didn't know he had that hinterland.

Dan Byrne.

Now, this came from Nifty Palms.

It's from Robson Green's Weekend Escapes.

Of course it is.

Here he is grilling elite chef Kenny Atkinson on how to run a kitchen.

And, oh, Robson Green, no, no, no.

You mentioned the word team there.

Is it team game?

It's almost like football, you know.

Well, great, go on, which analogy, Newcastle?

So let's let's say Newcastle.

Obviously, that's my home team.

So it's like how he's a manager, he's the guy who he has the vision.

But my guys who work in the kitchens are like the footballers, they're the superstars, day in, day out, putting all the hardcraft in.

They're a huge heart of hours success as their team.

Because without them,

I'm just one person.

To be honest, have you ever handed out a yellow card or or a red card to your team?

Come on.

Let me early dish.

Robson Green has watched one football game in his life, Dave.

Which I'm quite surprised about, actually.

I thought he'd have a bit more about him on that front.

I mean, I got slightly sidelined, Charlie, during the research for this to bulk out whether he was indeed a football man by googling whether he's ever played Lee Harvey Oswald, because he really looks like him.

But other than that,

I haven't ascertained his football allegiance.

But I mean, he could be a convincing football guy until he sort of suggested the idea of a manager giving a player a red card.

Yeah, yeah, that sort of came out of nowhere.

I'd have had him down as like, you know, whatever, if there was a sort of soccer aid equivalent during the 90s or noughties when he was sort of in his pomp, I bet he was in the mix for some charity football tournaments.

Yeah, he looks like it.

He looks like Easy Beer.

It just looks like he could have played for West Brom or something like that.

Finally, for part one, here is Conor McNamara, who's having a stunning Club World Cup, I should say.

Here he is for Rhys James's free kick, a crafty little free kick for Chelsea against Ben Fica.

Rhys James tries to catch him out and he does!

Troopine erected the wall,

but he didn't get the right planning permission.

What is there to say about that?

Sorry, lads, you're going to have to take the wall down.

Yeah.

And I wonder what sanctions are going to come for that wall.

Oh, dear.

I very much detect, Dave, that Conor McNamara has let his hair down for the World Feed audience in the Club World Cup.

He's so departed from his sort of five-life persona, I think.

Yeah, I I mean, I think he probably feels a sense of freedom.

He's always had that in him, hasn't he?

I think, yeah.

But now he's really, yeah, spreading his wings, unshackled from the BBC.

Yes, I like that.

We've talked about it before in relation to Jonathan Pierce, haven't we?

Like, it's uh, yeah, it's quite nice to see that they have these different sort of different gears.

Um, right, that's it for part one.

We're gonna be spreading our wings for part two very shortly.

Trip planner by Expedia.

You were made to outdo your holiday,

your hammocking,

and your pooling.

We were made to help organize the competition.

Expedia, made to travel.

This is Bethany Frankl from Just Be with Bethany Frankl.

Here's my summer tip.

Don't overthink your dog's meals.

My pups love just fresh from just food for dogs, complete, balanced, fresh, shelf-stable meals that go everywhere from New York City to weekends in the Hamptons.

I mean, you can have real food ready to go for your pup anywhere.

No cooler, no hassle, just grab and go.

I've seen the difference.

Healthier coats, more energy, tails wagging at mealtime.

Biggie and smalls love it, and I'm all about stuff that just makes sense when life is busy.

Go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50% off your first order right now.

No code needed.

Oh, look at that!

That is wonderful.

Welcome back to Football Clichés.

Part two begins with this from Grant Sutherland, Charlie.

He says, I'm on holiday in San Sebastian at the moment.

A couple was speaking about how hot it's going to be this weekend.

The wife asked, would it be cooler here, being the rooftop pool, or the beach?

The husband responded, a bit of both.

I burst out laughing as surely this makes absolutely no sense.

I mean, what's happened here, Charlie, apart from an abysmal deployment of a bit of both, is a husband simply not listening to what his wife has said.

That's what's happened here.

Any either-or question?

I'll just go with a bit of both.

He's vaguely heard two options here, Dave, and he's gone, ah, whatever, a bit of both.

Yeah, come on, mate.

Come on.

Pull the effort in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Downhill slope from there if you don't put the effort in.

Adam Wright gets in touch next, Dave, on the chat we had the other day from the listeners, Mezzo Harland Dix, about five-aside group chats with injury photos.

He says, I was just listening to this pod.

On injury photos in group chats, one of our players sent a pic pic following his vasectomy, and it was as bad as you think.

Stitches and black bollocks.

Awful.

Don't put that.

What?

Don't do that.

That's not a football injury.

I don't want to see that.

Of course.

Yeah, I mean,

I mean, just don't do it.

Even if it was, even if you did, maybe if you slid into the posts like Phil Babb, you know, still don't send it.

We don't want to see that.

And that's, that's probably going to get a similar reaction though, Charlie.

It's going to get a

take it easy, mate.

See you in a couple of weeks.

It's really, yeah, I mean, this is a wider thing.

You get this on like, I don't know if you guys are part of like Facebook groups for like neighbor, you know, for like sell and swap or recommend so that sort of thing.

And sometimes people just share stuff and you're like, this is really over-sharing.

Like, I don't think this is the forum to do it.

Like, you know, like asking for recommendations for some quite personal things.

You're like, there are like thousands of people on this group.

At least switch it to anonymous when you post it.

Here's a picture of their bollocks in the neighborhood WhatsApp group.

Sorry, guys.

I'm not going to be able to answer the door today.

So if you could pick up any parcels for me,

take it easy, mate.

Right.

Charlie, next up, this is one for you.

I know you feel very strongly about this.

AFC stuff, an Arsenal aggregation content outlet, wished happy birthday to reported Arsenal transfer target in Valencia defender Christian Muscara, who turned 21.

Jack Dullich writes in and says, Aggregator accounts wishing a happy birthday to players your clubs are getting linked with now.

This transfer window continues to hit new lows.

I mean, this must be a nadir for your particular

yeah, but this more, this is more just a fascination.

Like, I'm just fascinated by, and I'd love for us somehow to do this at some point.

Like, what is the lowest level for your club that they will wish a happy birthday to?

I find it so interesting because you see some and you're like, does he qualify?

He played like 20.

Like, what is the limit?

And, like, do clubs issue, I mean, they must.

They just must have a list.

Which is a database.

Yeah, there's a way to do it.

Is it done by a pitch?

Is it just like a cutoff for appearances?

Is there some sort of formula?

Same rule for everybody, I reckon.

I'd love to know.

But yeah, I've not seen a potential target.

And also pertains to something we were talking about on the Dreamland episode.

They've got an eyes emoji.

As if this is somehow what this is sort of

like, oh, has he like planned his

coincidence?

He has a birthday just as he's linked with Arsenal.

Okay.

He's so undeserving of the eyes emoji.

I can't believe it.

But, Dave, we're into troubling territory now here because, you know, one, AFC stuff will probably sort of claim credit for sealing the deal because they wished him a happy birthday.

And then, two, there'll be sort of speculation that players didn't move because aggregator accounts didn't wish them a happy birthday on the eve of the transfer.

Yeah, yeah, Torre situation all over again.

I think, yeah, there is a sort of slight air of desperation to this.

They're sort of trying to manifest it.

Oh, look, if we're just nice to him, just come on, maybe it will happen.

I haven't gone far enough here, Charlie.

They should have photoshopped him with a sort of

a birthday cake in front of the Everetts.

Yeah.

Picture of Gunnasaurus with him.

Oh, yeah.

Right.

This came from Jamie and Max.

I think this might be one of the most mangled clichés from a sportsman of all time.

Here is darts ace Rob Cross discussing his issues away from the hockey and how they affected his game.

This isn't like new news for me.

That's right.

I think two years ago I was probably suffering more with it.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, at certain times,

trying to sort of get everything sorted, getting your eggs into one line so you know where you're going with it.

Where has getting your eggs into one line come from?

Is it ducks in a row?

Is that what's happened here?

How has that happened?

Getting all your duck eggs into one line.

Getting all your eggs into one line.

Am I missing something here, Charlie?

Is there a cliche related to eggs?

It's all eggs in one basket.

Maybe it is.

Maybe some eggs in basket met ducks in a row.

But you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket.

That's a bad thing.

Yeah.

Yeah, those are

lined into like an aggregator and then just mangled.

Get all your eggs in.

Like a mongrel.

Astonishing.

Next up, Cal writes in, Dave, and says, I just felt I need to share that the primary school I work in have recently changed catering company midway through the school year.

I found out yesterday that the new caterers have ordered the kitchen to remove ketchup as an option on Fishfinger Friday in an attempt to calm the kids.

I literally can't think of another scenario where ketchup may get banned.

This is it, schools.

It's a whole new regime.

This is it.

Who's come in?

Well, don't worry.

In six months' time, a new lot will come in and it'll be back on the menu.

It's okay.

The reason given, Charlie, was making them hyper, apparently.

You can't blame that on ketchup alone, can you?

I wonder if, like, big corporates do this, or like tech company, you know, where it's a sort of like,

if it were a tech company, they'd probably bring it back in a way of like, we want our staff to be authentic, and if that means to me,

then that's great.

But, like, I, I, you know, anything where it's sort of

important, the kind of state of mind that people are in.

Usually, it's just a box of free fruit on a Friday or a Monday or something like that.

But, yeah, good to see schools following the football template.

Haven't had an absurd combined year stat for a while, Dave.

Here is Servo 100 on Reddit.

They say my girlfriend is a biology master's student in tropical medicine for her sins and has just read me the intro for her final research project on snake bite anti-venoms.

It says the World Health Organization states that snake bite kills 62,000 people per year, leading to a combined 2.9 million years of life lost annually.

Why are we having this?

You can't do this.

You can't speculate how long they would go on to live if they hadn't been bitten by a snake.

This is a disgrace.

2.9 million years as well.

Yeah.

It seems a lot.

Let's do the maths on it.

How long are they suggesting they're going to live?

So that's 2.9 million divided by 62,000 gives you an average age of 46.

But is that 46 years from where they are?

Yeah, so we have stats on the average age of

when they were bitten.

So I guess we're saying around 30 or something.

Yeah, fair enough.

So average age.

There's no babies out there getting bitten by snakes.

You rule them out.

And the elderly wouldn't be exposing themselves to snakes, of course.

So yeah, it's got to be.

Too savvy.

They're too savvy.

Backpackers.

Use all their experience.

But people who are a bit older than backpackers, actually, can afford to go to the slightly more tropical locations.

Or Brits who have decided to pack it in and go to Australia.

Yeah, that's true.

So

they've got a bit upwards.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, this is just in a really, really unhelpful and over-dramatic way for the World Health Organization to rail against snake bites 2.5 and they're also not losing them all in that one year I mean it's like you know that's happening they're not gonna have all their years in you've got to advertise it

PSR this

oh god really irresponsible I'm really annoyed about this oh dear right um I'm gonna end with a couple of genuinely semi-serious football conundrums from our listeners.

Jay Gold writes in first and says, I was listening to the Totally Football show, and one of the presenters was talking about the Germany vs.

France under 21s game, saying that France overall played better but that Germany picked them off on the break.

This got me thinking about the intricacies of the phrase picked off on the break.

I've always intuitively understood it, but I've never really thought about its application before.

Are there nuances to its use?

For me, it conjures up images of a disorganised military unit whose members can be easily picked off.

That implies to me there has to be an element of defensive disarray for the term picked off to be applied.

As a quick anti-example, I can think of PSG mounting a quick break back to front, despite the other team being well organised.

They're just quick enough to play through the lines and score.

In this instance, I don't think picked off would apply.

Maybe it can be used for any type of quick break leading to a goal, but for me, the element of disorganisation is key.

Thoughts.

So, Dave, how important is defensive disorganisation to be picked off on a counter-attack?

But is it more about the attacking team and what they're doing than defensive disorganisation?

The scenario that

Jay Gold has has conjured up there, I think, is a good one.

But it's a military unit being easily picked off, like being picked off by a sniper, right?

They're just really accurate and they're just picking you off.

But I suppose they would have to be exposed to be able to be picked off.

I think this is it.

To be picked off, Charlie, you've got to be kind of isolated.

You haven't got that kind of low block.

You're outnumbered.

And each individual player can be picked off, essentially.

Or is it a collective thing?

I don't know.

No, I think it's about if you're picked off, it makes me think of like late-era Venga Arsenal, where it's just irresponsible.

You know, they've left the back door open, like it's that sort of thing.

So you're doing the attacking, but you don't really have that screening midfielder or whatever.

And so you're vulnerable to the counter.

And, you know, and Mourinho's Chelsea just picked them off, you know, picked them off a couple of times, and that's all it took.

The disorganization is from, it's like the sort of counter-presser.

You know, it's that sort of, it's like not being a good off-the-ball team, you know, that you can attack really well, but then as soon as you lose it, the other team are kind of at your defense.

And there is a kind of surgical precision to a good counter-attack, especially if you've drawn the other team in, Dave.

So that's where picked off can come in.

But otherwise, I don't think the phrase really works very well for a counter-attack.

You're picking off, in a military sense, you're picking off individual soldiers.

You're picking off individual kills.

You're not doing that on a counter-attack.

You're basically swarming another team who are outnumbered.

I don't like picked off.

Yeah, I don't think it quite works either, to be honest.

There you go.

Jay Gold, we're no closer to a solution there.

Right, finally, this question comes from Equal Departure on Reddit about the most anticlimactic extra-time victory method, presumably inspired by England's extra-time win over Germany in the under-21 Euros final.

They say, is there a more disappointing outcome as a neutral than a quick extra-time goal followed by 28 minutes of nothingness?

If I'm staying up past my bedtime, I want the whole hog, penalties and all, or at least heartbreak for someone.

I mean, an early goal of Charlie in extra time is the most unsatisfying way for it to be settled, right?

You tried telling Dave Walker that.

No,

I do agree with the prep.

Yeah, I mean, it is a bit.

I mean, generally, I think I agree.

Like, if you are a neutral, not getting penalties at the best of times is quite annoying.

At least with this, you're sort of prepared.

But yeah, it is a bit of like a meh way for a game to finish.

Early bedtime for this guy.

I think it was

early 10 o'clock on Saturday night.

The extra time started.

There are thereabouts.

So,

fair play.

I actually missed that goal because it was so quick at the start of extra time.

I'd nipped to the loo in that in that little break between full-time and the start of extra time.

And I came back and saw Jonathan Rowe wheeling away in celebration.

That does feel like a safe time to go to the toilet as well.

Like, you know, while the game's going on, I would choose that moment.

It's not going to happen now.

No, that reminds me of at uni once, one of my housemates, we were watching a game.

It went to extra time, and he was like, I don't want to go to the, I don't want to miss the start of extra time.

And he waited and waited and waited and then had had to go at the start of penalties it was absolutely insane it was like there are there have been so many windows like end of the game you that's the time like there's so much faffing between from there to the shootout so I think Dave you made the right call you you got unlucky speaking of this triumph Dave someone asked me whether we can justifiably use the phrase England under 21s retained the trophy when it's you know it's a completely different squad bar a couple of players and the manager are you all right with retained when it comes to

under 21s definitely yeah I mean you would say the same in the seniors.

And if the Lionesses win the Euros, they're retaining it, even though there's been personnel changes between the two.

It's not about the players.

It's about the...

If Liverpool were to change their entire squad and they win the Premier League next season, they'd still be retaining the Premier League, wouldn't they?

I can't argue with any of that.

But the point is they wouldn't.

I do see the question, because by definition, you know, players are basically...

ineligible.

Yeah, so pretty much all of them will be ineligible from where they are.

So it's more official that they can't play, but it doesn't...

But I suppose, that you know sort of the young England under 21 sort of slowly shed their skin and the new one comes through, they sort of helped each other through, so I suppose it's you know it is a kind of cycle that has taken part.

So, yeah, okay, no, I'm yeah,

I didn't say they couldn't retain it, so I'm all right with it.

Um, but yeah, fair play to the unders 21s.

Dave, are you now desensitised to England youth teams winning tournaments?

I feel like I am.

I mean, that just happens all the time now.

We have, yeah, we have got quite a good record.

An offshoot of this, though, it's it's kind of like a similar thing to when you see the England lineup for the 2034 World Cup or whatever posted, and there's all these random players in.

And you actually look at the under-21s, they've won the Euros for the second time in a row, and you look through it, you go,

loads of you are never going to play for England.

Yes, seniors.

Yeah, I definitely do think that.

But there's...

Is Jonathan Rowe ever going to get a call up to the seniors?

I hope so, but I'm not sure.

Jay Stansfield, I don't think so.

I know.

Some of the players involved, I'm really surprised, are in the frame.

But, Charlie, another thing about this sort of particular tournament, I see that Charlie Cresswell, who's the kind of shouty linchpin of the England under-21 defence, has been linked with a £80 million move to Sunderland from Toulouse.

Now, an Englishman playing abroad, Charlie, already means that he must be linked with a move back to England immediately after he's sort of, you know, oh,

come back.

You know, this is the place to be.

But secondly, isn't Under 21 Euros the most player linked with a move after his displays at a tournament tournament

possible.

Like, it doesn't get more.

It is essentially one big shop window, the under 21.

His impressive displays.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I think so.

Yeah, like, it's not, sometimes you look at the names and they're all kind of these like really exciting.

And the youngsters, this, I mean, obviously, Dave,

you'll actually know about this, but like, it feels from the outside like a sort of a more kind of functional team, which is just, which is a bit unusual at that, because you think, like, at that age, you're going to think everyone's young and exciting and going to go on and be amazing.

Well, I mean, a good example of this, Dave, would be Harvey Elliott, who won player of the tournament,

made a really decisive contribution to the tail end of this tournament, and yet feels ancient as an under-21 player, not just in terms of his eligibility age.

He's right at the limit as well.

But also, you know, we're very familiar with Harvey Elliott.

This isn't a kind of, you know, a star in the making, the world at his feet situation.

We've known about him for absolutely ages.

So it takes the shine off it for me a little bit.

I know what you mean.

It's a strange feature of that age group because you either can kind of get stuck in the under-21s zone for ages or you can completely skip it.

Like Jude Bellingham, like Lewis Skelly.

Jude Bellingham technically is ill eligible to play for the under-21s in this tournament, which seems mental.

Imagine if they'd selected him.

Just a little bit of experience.

I think he's still got a point to prove at this level, to be honest.

I'm finished.

He's never done it.

On that note, great effort from you two in this heat.

Thanks to you, Charlie Ekasha.

Enjoy, Wimbledon.

Thank you.

Thanks to you, Dave Walker.

Thank you.

Thanks to everyone for listening.

We'll be back on Thursday.

See you then.

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.

Popsicles, sprinklers, a cool breeze.

Talk about refreshing.

You know what else is refreshing this summer?

A brand new phone with Verizon.

Yep, get a new phone on any plan with Select Phone Trade In and MyPlan.

And lock down a low price for three years on any plan with MyPlan.

This is a deal for everyone, whether you're a new or existing customer.

Swing by Verizon today for our best phone deals.

Three-year price guarantee applies to then-current base monthly rate only.

Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers.