”The most involved-goals man", Swiss Army knives & watching the Roy Keane film trailer

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I'm sorry, sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like.

Is Gas going to have a crack? He is, you know. Oh, I say

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He launched himself six feet into the crowd and kung fu kicked a supporter who was

without a shadow of a doubt giving him lip. Oh, I say!

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This nation is going to dance all night!

Has the Club World Cup met the burst into life threshold? Is Angheldi Maria the most plausible member of any of the 32 squads? Ref Cam's inevitable move to the Premier League?

What hybrid word links Barry Davis, Robin Cowan and Will Smith? Slightly desperate football references in Channel 4 TV listings.

What would it take for a player outside of Europe to win the ballon d'Or? Swiss Army knives, passing ranges, and the first glimpse of Steve Coogan's big screen Mick McCarthy.

Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts. This is Football Clichés.

Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés. I'm Adam Hurry.
Alongside me for this one, Charlie Eccleshe, how you doing? Very well, thank you. And David Walker, how are you? I'm good.

Coping with the heat, Charlie? I'm roasting in this little room, I have to say. Yeah, I am.
I had a real,

I felt like a sort of a goalkeeper or a manager the other day. I was leaving the house and on the first floor, it was so hot, and the house gets so hot.

On the first floor, looking out onto the road, there were windows. And I was like, do I close them? I was like, I'm just going to leave them open.

And then if we get burgled, you've just got to put your hands up and say, too good. I mean, if they're, do you know what I mean? If they're scaling the walls in plain sight, then fair play to them.

Like,

there's not a lot more we could have done, really i'll raise you on that one it was it was the 1950s around my area recently we went to went to see my mum and dad and uh came back and realized i'd left the front door wide open so it turns out you can do it yeah fantastic i felt right maverick right by now subscribers to dreamland will have discovered that episode two of dreamland is out now how football ranked itself blind our voyage day into the inane and mundane football content machine we had an amazing amount of fun with this one, and it turned out to be a little bit narrower than we expected.

You can't really cover the whole football content landscape in one go, can you? You certainly can't. No, we might have to do a follow-up episode at some point in the future.

But we delved into the world of blind rankings, of winner's days on, head-to-head little videos,

combined 11s, all-time 11s.

I have to give Dave the big shout out. He unearthed some unbelievable stuff for this.
So, yeah, some great blind-ranking montage type material. Contains an old-timer of a montage.

So, if you're interested in that, go to dreamland.football clichés.com to get involved for just $5.99 a month.

You get ad-free listening to all of our episodes, two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive new show. Pre-sale access to Football Clichés live tickets, free entry to cliches quiz live events.

We got some in the pipeline for the southwest and the northeast. So, stay tuned for details on that.

And also, you get exclusive discounts on merchandise, which we will get around to sorting soon as well.

Meanwhile, clichés live in twenty twenty five. I can tell you that Leeds is sold out.
Good old Leeds. Leeds and it Leeds has gone from our lowest point to never letting us down.
Dave, love Leeds.

They're the happiest of hunting grounds for us these days.

And closely followed by Glasgow, which is which is hot on hot on its tail in terms of the ticket sales. Yeah, get them while you can in all the other places.

I I do like your the the sort of cryptic vagueness you have around quiz events in the pipeline for the south west and the north east. I mean it's Bristol and Newcastle, we can say that.

It's not going to be like Darlington and, you know, somewhere in Gloucester.

Oh, dear. Tintagil, we're going to.

Right.

Yeah.

Hopefully, details will emerge of that. Charlie Sinex will say that those two venues are nearly sold out because they're the smallest venues of the tour.
But no, no.

Most intense venues of the tour, if anything. Yeah, far from it.
No, that's great.

I mean, Leeds, I feel humbled that even after that first show, they're, you know, I guess we made up for it last time, didn't we? Yeah, tickets selling really well elsewhere.

Right, adjudication panel time. This first one comes from Robert McMenzie.

He was watching co-commentator Glenn Murray describe Denmark's opening goal against France in the under-21 Euros quarterfinal.

Once this ball arrives at Bishop's feet, he has no hesitation, laces through it, pure power, leaves the goalkeeper rest with absolutely no chances to wonderful finish. Top corner, eat your heart out.

No one knows what eat your heart out means anymore, Charlie. What's going on? We had Pedro Porro eating his own heart out in preseason last season.

And now the top corner is being instructed to eat his heart out, I assume. I don't know what's going on.
Do you think it's a menabia going to pick that one out? Yes.

Take your hat off.

Yeah.

Been mangled. Yeah, I do like that.
Oh, dear. No, I don't think we've got any idea of what really was going on there.
But the real main event, of course, this summer is the Club World Cup.

Now, Charlie,

your cynicism at that, the Club World Cup, is well documented, as is my allegedly corrosion enthusiasm for it. But yes, I'm telling you, it's burst into life.

Boca 2, Benfica 2, Man Each sent off for those. Realm Madrid being held by Al Hillal into Miami 2, Porto 1.
PSG losing to Botofogo. 10-man Chelsea collapsing against Flamengo.
Barusio Dortmund 4.

Mamalodi Sundowns 3. And chief football correspondents whinging about Uber prices and partisan foreign journalists in the press box.
What more could you want? It's burst into life.

Was this the moment that it came alive? You watched any of it? Bits and pieces. I actually started watching a bit.
I watched a bit of that Real Madrid Al-Halal match.

I didn't watch all of it. No, I have watched some.
And, you know, I never said it wouldn't be, you know, kind of reasonably entertaining. And

yeah, so it's probably met that bar. I actually thought I would get into it more than I have done.
You know, I was kind of more

aligned with you, Adam, before the tournament about being open-minded about it and seeing potential for some interesting stuff. But

I have really struggled to be interested in it. I've watched a few bits here and there.
I don't know.

As we spoke about before, the aesthetic of it is troubling me. I just can't quite take it seriously.

It just looks pre-season-y, and it just something in me just can't quite, there's no gravitas to what I'm seeing. It doesn't help that the time difference means that that's all you're seeing.

Like, you're not seeing live, you're not seeing evening games live, which does kind of skew it a a bit. Yeah, it's not under the light.
You're only seeing the kind of daytime slow stuff.

Yeah, it's not under the lights.

And, you know, all the talk about the temperatures and the conditions in which they're playing actually, they elevate my feeling of, oh my God, that looks knackering, which is never good for a football and spectacle.

So I think that adds to the pre-seasonness as well.

But, Dave, I think we can all agree that RefCam, this sort of broadcasting innovation that's really been unleashed on the Club World Cup, is here to stay and is brilliant.

Like, it's clearly destined for the Premier League. Like, I mean, we're already sort of close to the the bottom of the current barrel for broadcasting innovations.

So they're going to be snapping this right up, I think.

They should do as well, because it really does help the referee's case in terms of how difficult it is to see stuff in real time and from their vantage point.

And it's good as well, because it drops you right into the match, but

it's better than when they did the player cam on, was it? in the Aston Villa game? Yeah, it was Tieleman's. That's right, yeah.
And

all you could see then, or you could focus on with that were the weird arms. Yeah, pumping arms.
It's really not.

So it's better to have it from the ref's point of view because you're just that little bit removed and you can sort of see everything. Yeah, I do think it's good.
The PGMOL should be all over it.

Well, you're right, exactly. I mean, this would be a far more compelling case than getting Howard Webb and Michael Owen to pour over some clips.
Just show them this. Be like, no, it's fucking quick.

You try it. And even for the lads in Stockley Park.
Yeah, sort of reminiscent of the kind of Met Police putting out some body cam footage, though, isn't it, after the event?

Look, there's been some unexpected. Do you want to do it?

Yeah, there's been some unexpected discoveries from this. The referee during Realm Ridge Pachuca, getting his red card out, held the red card from the top left corner, Charlie, to it to brandish it.

Like he was holding up a Polaroid for someone to check. Right.
It's really weird. Just shaking it around.
It was very jarring. And on ref cam, it just looked even worse.

But yeah, yeah, I think we're definitely going to see that in the Premier League within the next year or two.

This is great from De Puisla. Dave, he says, I just heard that Angel Di Maria is playing in the Benfiga versus Boca Jr.'s game and I wasn't sure which side he was playing for.

Is he the player who could feasibly play for the most club World Cup sides? And if not, who is? I mean, this could be spot on.

I mean, it has to be a South American player because South American players lend themselves to pretty much all the confederations, I would say, most. Yeah, I think he probably is.

There are a few other candidates because there are, if you look through the lineups, and I think they have to kind of be to meet this threshold, I think they need to be in that sort of mid to late 30s bracket as well, in that they could, maybe that rules them out playing for the top clubs.

But Di Naria, you, you know, could feasibly still kind of be a squad player at one of the elite clubs, just sort of not like in the way that Modric was still at Real Madrid, you know, at that age, you know, you could still be hanging around at PSG, perhaps.

So I think he kind of does tick all the boxes, but there are, there are a few others.

Looking through the squads, actually, I was surprised at some of the names that I saw, which kind of, again, gives it a little bit of that sort of World Cup feel where you go, oh, he's still playing.

Oh, that guy's still playing.

Sergio Ramos is playing for Monterrey,

which I had no idea that he was, that's where he was playing.

Salamon Rondon at Pacheco. Yeah, Rondon's there.
But even sort of lesser Brazilians like Alex Telles and Felipe Anderson. I think they

could be in MLS.

They could be in South America like they are. They could be knocking about one of the sort of second-tier European clubs at Porto or something.
So yeah, there are a couple of candidates.

One of the players I thought actually isn't, I don't think he's actually playing at the Club World Cup, but I was thinking of Jamez Rodriguez.

He for me, like, because he, he sort of done the Porto thing. He was there, wasn't he? And then he's, you know, obviously he's done for, he's played for Real Madrid.

But I could sort of, I could definitely see him in MLS or I could see him in Saudi. I could see him back in South America.

It also wouldn't amaze me if it was like, no, he's actually, you know, in the kind of Mikatarian style. No, he's actually, you know, still quite good, actually.

And he's playing for juventus as a squad player kind of you know that sort of level i mean mikatarian if he wasn't playing for inter you'd be like he's still playing for an elite club he could just as easily be playing in qatar like a third wind yeah charlie you're on the money here because jamez rodriguez currently plays for club leon in mexico

the team that got booted out just before uh the tournament started because of dual ownership god he should be there they should they should be able to loan him out somewhere for the tournament he's also so fifa he's just like you know, he's such like a kind of World Cup man.

Great to see Charlie's logic being dragged back just to the last there. That's tremendous.
Solomon Rondon was probably a good shout as well. I think Auckland City kind of ruined this.

None of these players could be feasibly playing for Auckland City unless they had a stake in the club or something like that. But a bit far-fetched.
But yeah, Di Maria, good shout.

Next up, this came from Housemaster. A moment of healthy uncertainty for Dezone commentator Rich Wolfenden during Real Madrid versus Al Hillal.

Here's Kulavali.

Al-Hillal looking looking to build on that disallowed goal.

He can do such a thing.

I think of it savage. Charlie, can you build on a disallowed goal? It's a very relatable doubt that he has there.

I mean, often it's sort of the other way. It works the other way around, that the other team gets a bit of a lift from the like, that's a warning, boys, you know.

Yeah, we've got away with one slightly there. But, Dave, marginal loss sides aside, or, you know, minor infractions aside, it's proved that you can break the other team's back line.

You should be buoyed by a disallowed goal, shouldn't you?

I think it does depend on what kind of disallowed goal it is, because there are some which are obviously would never have like the play has kind of stopped and the other defenders have stopped because they know that it's obviously obviously offside or whatever.

The ref hasn't blown yet. But there are some, increasingly, obviously, in the VAR age, where the play is full pace all the way through, and then you get a late flag or whatever.

So, I think you can build on that. It can, yeah, it can give you some momentum, I suppose.
Yeah, I feel like you try to, don't you? But in your head, you're a bit like, oh, that's really annoying.

We've got this out. It doesn't change any boys.
Like, you know, we've shown we can get through them, but you're also like, oh, is that our one chance to scoring? It's coming, boys.

It's already come in a way.

Rich Wolfenden, you have been vindicated. Elsewhere, Leonel Messi scoring that free kick for Into Miami against Porto, Dave.
Does that now put him firmly into his still got it?

phase of his career, which I'm quite sad about.

I'm sad to see Leon Almessi get to such an age.

I want him to stick around for as long as possible, but are we now in a kind of retrospective part of consuming Leonardo Messi? I'm not sure.

The whole MLS sort of spell,

it's a bit strange, and there is the obvious contrast with Ronaldo in Saudi, and you're constantly still sort of weighing them up.

And it's kind of how much of a retirement kind of PR sort of exercise is this, or how much is Messi actually going out there every week and putting in 100% and scoring scoring goals?

And his goals record is good for into Miami, and they've, you know, they've had some success. And yeah, I mean, I mean, perhaps this is a marker for it.

I saw someone, I can't remember who it was, but somebody on Talksport over the weekend was suggesting that Messi should sign for Arsenal and

win them the Premier League. We need to know who this was.
It doesn't sound like O'Hara. It doesn't sound like Cundy.
Okay.

But I think, Adam, that's an authentic one in the eye for those who are saying you're kind of on the FIFA payroll, because I think the FIFA masters would be trying to claim that Messi's in the showing no signs of slowing down phase.

I'm glad you mentioned showing no signs of slowing down. He is quite literally showing signs of slowing down.

I mean, that's widely established that he is, you know, he is strolling around even more than ever. And his little legs look a little harder work for him in his late thirties.
So I don't know.

But I think that would be the mess. You know, that would be the message that the Club World Cup and MLS are trying to put out.
That, look, Messi's, he's just as good as he ever was.

Yeah, you know, he's still scoring free kicks and you know, big moments. I just don't want to see the phrase still got it attached to him just

yet.

I mean, we've already had rolling back the years as well, Dave, which I think is a softer way of saying a player is past their prime. I think it's okay to say that.

But should still got it be reserved for when you

retired, you know,

yeah, because that's quite a manager doing it on the sidelines, isn't it? Or a testimonial thing.

You know, Stephen Gerrard will go and score an amazing goal in whatever legends match is happening and field, and it'll be a still got it.

Also, you know, if we were being really pinnickety about it, Messi's going to be bending free kicks into the opposite side of the net to where the goal is standing until he's about 60.

I'd back him to do it.

I really, it's more dribbling that really, if he stops doing that, then I guess it really is all over. Next up, this came from HelpfulSox6199 on Reddit.

Here's Dusan Vlavic entering the fray for Juventus against Moroccan outfit Weedad.

Harvard chooses substitute as well against

Alin

most

involved goals man of 24-25

20 of them 15 goals five assists

Charlie I've got a lot of sympathy with commentator Mike Minay here goal involvement is already established as pretty clunky even before you try and turn it into an adjective so most involved goals, man.

What a brilliant way of putting it. I like that he quickly moves to clarify what the hell he's talking about with the 20, the 15 plus 5.
It does sound most involved goals, man.

It does sound like something we'd come up with when coming up with a hypothetical descriptor for this. Most involved goals, man.
Yeah. Could we tweak this into something a little bit more sensible?

I mean, most goal-involved man. Most goal-involved man, yeah.
Most goal-involved man. Most goal involved man.

That says, I don't know. There's no, there's no, I mean, it's like Martin Tyler, isn't it? There was a sort of coal man, goal man thing he did a few years ago.
It sounds a bit like that.

I mean, it's not that you talk about the most goal man or the biggest goal man for the guy who scored the most goals. Would you be happy with a goal involvement machine, Dave?

Yes. Yes.

That's surely coming.

Goal involvement machine. Oh, but it looks could work.
Everything he touches turns to goal involvement.

Right.

This came from Matthew Robinson over on the US coverage. Here is Alex Scott pulling Paul Robinson up on his thoughts on Ruben Nevers' penalty for Al-Hillel against Real Madrid.

Wait, Paul, I just need to bring this back because you said that penalty never in doubt. I swear when we were all sitting in the green room, he was like, I don't fancy Nevis.

I don't know what he never doubts. But the way he took it, it was never in doubt.
Okay, okay. When we're back there and I'll watch it and I'm thinking, hmm, don't fancy him.

He took it with a lot of composure. Okay.

I might believe him, but I don't know. It might exhibit in the studio.
Dave, what a case study this is to separate never in doubt and never fancied him for it. I mean,

so Robinson's suggestion here is that he did fancy him, but then once he'd taken the penalty, it was never in doubt.

He can't do that. For that split second when he made contact with the ball before it went in, it was never in doubt.

You can't post-rationalize it like that. You can't commit to it.
Unless you're suggesting it was never in doubt for the way the player hit it made it look as if it was ever in doubt for them.

Yes, I'm being a bit sneaky here. What Paul Rummers is actually saying, Charlie, is that it was never in doubt the way that Neves sort of stepped up to the penalty.
He didn't fancy him before it.

He didn't fancy the concept of Ruben Nevs taking a penalty. And why wouldn't you fancy him? He's just scored, he's got the winning penalty in the Nations League final, didn't he, for a start?

So why wouldn't you fancy him for this? And then, and then at what point can the cut-off begin between that and never in doubt? I mean, it does tap in something because I don't know about you guys.

When I watch a penalty shootout, I can't help but fight the urge and guess either out loud or in my head where they're going to put it, whether it's going to be saved, how you know,

how convincing they are. And I'm just trying to think if I, if I ever do change my mind.

I think maybe you do. You're like, do you know what? I actually think he's going to score.
Like, having thought in theory that this is someone who should be,

you're like, it's a supercomputer with every step. Oh, 69%.
Yeah, yeah. 74%.

Constantly calibrating. I think this is a thing, right?

We've spoken about the sort of evolution of penalty suits before.

In general,

whether this is borne out statistically or not, it definitely feels like the average standard of penalties is much higher these days than it was, right?

And I think that that sometimes means that

there is still

the impulse for us to look at someone and go, ooh.

don't fancy him looks a bit nervous but then they don't follow through with that as much they do look nervous sometimes but then they still just go and smash it top corner so we're a bit confused as to what we should feel yeah and i think it's complicated charlie but i think there's a greater range of penalties these days so a player who might look ungainly or not able to take the sort of penalty that will be good in our eyes will take another form of penalty is actually really effortless and then it has to make that forces you to recalibrate what never in doubt actually means yeah yeah take for example dean houseon if he was stepping up for a penalty he's big he's tall his socks are rolled down, he's a centre-back.

Traditionally, you wouldn't back him, but obviously he is going to strike that ball home.

Yeah, or you'd think previously there's only one option for that big centre-back, and that's they're just going to smash it. Yeah.
But you're right now.

They're so multifaceted. But I need an answer on this, Charlie.
Like, what is the cut-off point for you to be able to confidently say never in doubt? How retrospectively can you go?

I mean, you'd never say both. You can't say both, obviously, because you look silly.
But at what point can Never in Doubt actually kick in?

Yeah, I was going to say, I think they need to be doing the run-up. Like, I don't think...
How much can you glean from that, really?

But to actually, as they're about to strike the ball, like, what's changed? Unless you're such a technical expert that, like, oh, yeah, I thought he was going to bottle it.

But actually, seeing the way he pulled his leg back at that moment, I just knew that it meant.

Yeah, I think realistically for the lay person,

you've got to be making your call by the time they're running up because

that's when you sort of have your sense of like, do they look confident? Do they look like they want to be there? Are they shitting themselves?

Well, I mean, this conversation alone, Dave, I think justifies Alex Scott's intervention there because, one, it was an overall quite a light-hearted exchange, but you sensed a little bit in Paul Ram saying, oh, don't pick me up on that.

What are you saying? It was just something you say.

Tough, mate. Yeah.
Right, that's it for part one. We'll be back very shortly.

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Oh, look at that!

That is wonderful!

Welcome back to Football Clichés. This is the Adjudication Panel.

By the the way, Thursday's episode this week will be this month's Listeners Mezza Harland Dicks, where we're going to feature your niche footballing fascinations and obscure irrational footballing irritations.

To get involved, send me a 30-second voice note, either as a Twitter DM or an Insta DM or to football cliches at gmail.com. We'll select the best half dozen to pick apart on Thursday's pod.

As always, Dave, we want them to be original, but not too weird. Not ridiculously weird.
It's a bit of a high-wire act. It is.
I mean, every now and again, we'll let the odd, really weird one through.

So don't let that put you off. No, okay, yes.
Yeah, you know, just keep it

from the heart, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, Charlie, I was trying to think of some that I was going to ask for a sort of moratorium on and say, please don't send this one in again, but it feels mean, so I'm not going to do that anymore.

No, just send them in, and we'll see what happens. It's a numbers game.
There will be six. There'll definitely be six.
So

don't be perturbed. Don't be dissuaded.
Send in your 30-second voice note with your football football fetish.

Either good or bad. Right, next up, this came from Kunal Shah.

He says, after hearing you guys laugh at the rendition of There's Only One Jeff Erst in the last episode, I then listened to BBC Radio 4's documentary, Here We Go, The Art of the Football Chant, in which sociology professor Les Back does a deep dive into football chanting and supporter culture.

It's a decent listen until it falls apart when Les tries to recreate the chant for ex-Millwall defender Tony Witter. And you had your own song.

I think it was just at Christmas period, it actually started. That's right.
And then they carried it on. And I was playing well, and the team wasn't playing too badly.

And they latched onto it and they took it as their little welcome to Millwall and Tony Witter. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it was to the tune of Bing Crosby's Winter Wonderland.

There's only one Tony Witter. There's only one Tony Witter.
Walking along, singing a song, walking in a Witter Wonderland. Les, this is basics.

Come on, mate.

I don't trust the BBC on anything anymore.

I can't believe it. I can't believe this has happened.
What's he thinking there?

You've got your only ones mixed up. Yeah, that's weird because that is, that's a pretty.
That's one of the

first football chants I can remember being aware of.

There you are.

But yeah, I'm still listening to it. It is good.
I promise. So, how does it go? So, the first bit of that is

there's only one

Tony Witter.

There's only one Tony Wits up walking

singing a song. So, you can see why he's got confused, but yeah.
Come on, mate. This is BBC Radio 4.
We're talking about here. No, show producers for this sort of thing.

Next up, via Sanny Rudevagilai, who has noticed what has become known via this podcast as the Ellis James crowd noise, appears in the title sequence of the BBC's Today at the Test.

Listen very carefully at the start here.

Dave, they are addicted to this sound. Like, there are so many other celebration sounds in the BBC database, even from the same game or from other generic football games.

But why has Portsmouth versus Carlisle on the 6th of May 1985 become so widely used for cricket as well?

But the saving grace for that is it does sound a little bit like someone appealing for a wicket and then the crowd sort of celebrating at the same time.

yeah yeah it kind of works nicely and you're right it's like why has this become so well used it because it works but that if you go through the bbc's archive that's publicly available like the sound archive there are loads of different gold sounds you could use it's not it's not a precise thing is it it's not it's not you know outlandishly perfect for for this is there some sort of in-house directive that this is the one to use or do like the people that put this sort of stuff together probably quite nerdy sort of people that listen to this sort of podcast Go and get the Portsmouth versus Carlisle.

They all know it, so they all just, it's just the go-to. Is it a superstition?

If it ain't broke, well, Charlie, we shouldn't rule out that this could well be like a running joke in the industry, right? They might say, Go on, where can we sneak this sound effect in?

I mean, they're not paying it, they're not paying for it, so there's it could be quite a frivolous thing that they're not, there's no, there's no victim here.

That's what I'm saying, or is it just there? You know how sometimes if something's just in your default as your settings, you just don't really, you just get used to it, you're like,

sort of works.

It could be a a bit of that. I want to, yeah, we should, we should keep our ears out for it now.
Like, is it going to, does it actually pop up anywhere else?

Is it sneakily in the titles of Strictly or

something like that? Sports personality of the year, just a coverall. I don't know.
Interested to see where else it pops up. Glastogue, it could be.
Potentially.

Someone taking the stage.

Right, some listeners may remember this from January 2024.

This was matched to the days Robin Cowan as Dominic Solanke single-handedly took care of Nottingham Forest before Christmas, evoking some classic Barry Davies. That's a brutiful header!

Brutiful!

As a result of that now, Charlie, brutiful should now be a fully-fledged football word. But what would brutiful mean? Brutiful.
I mean, it's brilliant and beautiful, isn't it, combined?

That's sort of the genesis of it. So, yeah, a slip of the tongue, maybe, an intergenerational slip of the tongue.

But here is Will Smith being asked on Radio One Extra about his infamous Oscars moment. What does making a mistake in front of the world? How do you handle that? It's brutal.
It's brutal.

It's brutal, but beautiful. Barry Davis, Robbie Cowan, Will Smith.

Together again. Well, Barry Davies, where was Barry Davis for the Oscars moment? Who cares? Frankly, who cares? Just look at his face.
If ever we needed it, that was the moment.

That's nice from Will Smith. Yeah, that word, it's taking off.
It's definitely a thing, Charlie. We can start using it.
Brutiful. Brutiful.
Will Smith's appearing in all sorts of places these days.

He's doing this weird tour. He's playing a show in Scarborough.
What? Which suggests to me that he, you know, he's very much in the mood to publicise his wares as much as he can. So.

Get him as a support actor, the old rep in Birmingham, maybe.

Well, could we get him on MHD, but who knows? Ah, dread to think. He'd be like Tom Cruise on Beckham and Friends all over again, wouldn't it? Wow.
Yep.

Right, Transfer Silly Season continues in the most mundane way, Dave.

Wickham Wanderers tweeted, We're delighted to announce the capture of Northern Irish midfielder Keelan Boyd Muntz following his exit from St. Mirren in the Scottish Premiership.
Philip McPeak says,

Official club tweet announcing the capture of a player. Are we having this? Not sure I am.
How do you feel about this sort of transfer speak creeping in? Is it a completely unnecessary word to use?

Yeah, it's strange. I mean, it almost sounds like

you could imagine a US president announcing the capture. Yeah, I was going to say they have actually captured this guy.

High-profile terrorist or something, which, yeah, it's a bit weird. I mean, it is, it's a very subtle form of transfer speech, Charlie.
I mean,

it doesn't really sex up the transfer in any particular way, does it? Unless he was moved against his will.

Which is the last thing you want to be suggesting about a new signing. I think people often, they just,

especially if you're talking a lot about transfers or whatever, you're just like, you want to spice it up and vary it and use different words, and you don't really think about the different meanings and connotations.

Pen to paper and a new contract? I'm all right with it. I'm all right with pen to paper.
If it absolutely has to exist, I can live with it. But I don't think capture's needed here.
So I worry.

I worry about what's going to happen for the next couple of months, Dave. Has there been a particularly sort of protracted, high-profile pursuit of this player?

Have there been a number of teams on his trail? I don't know. Well, I was trying to think that.
Like, when would capture...

Presumably, like Forrest signing to be a capture, presumably...

Well, yeah, I guess it is. Is it against his will or is it against the club that are sort of keeping him? Maybe it's was the result of a hijack.
They hijacked him, then captured him.

Yeah, there needs to be an element of resistance in there, doesn't it? For it to be

for capture to really work. Yeah, I've never said, I'd have to say, I don't think I've ever seen it before in an official club tweet, so concerns.
I saw one the other day on a similar sort of note.

I think it was Nottingham Forest when Nuno signed his new contract. Their official tweet was, Evangelos Maranakis has handed Nuno Nuno a three and a half year contract extension or whatever, which is.

Well, I mean, again, that's definitely newspaper speak creeping in, but also Maranack is putting himself front and centre, I think, at Club Communications.

Right, next up, this came from Leighton Pierce and also Matthew Hall, who wrote in, Hi, Adam, as someone who knows a thing or two about TV listings and EPGs, are you able to adjudicate on Channel 4's usage of the format on the 12th of June?

It's innovative and fresh, or is it too knowingly egregious? Maybe it's a bit of both. So what happened, Dave, was

on that day's schedules of things like Frasier, Place in the Sun, Ramsey's 24 Hours to Helenbach, they inserted references to England's opening Euro under 21 game that evening on Channel 4.

Let me give you an example. Frazier.
Frazier and Martin discover they were both cheated on by their wives.

Presumably, Ref Elchin Matiev will keep a close eye on any cheating in England's opening game at the Under 21 Euro tonight. This is nonsense.
This wouldn't have happened in my day.

I was going to say, would you have done this back in your EPG era? Never worked on Channel 4. That was one of the sort of blue-ribboned sort of jobs and contracts we had.

I was more of a sports guy, but turns out worlds can collide here. But yeah, Charlie, this is ham-fisted.
It's funny that they've done it for this. I mean, that it's because it's not like a huge...

If it was like the start of the World Cup or something. Yeah.
Yeah, that might be... They don't get many rights, Channel 4.
I suppose you've got to try and enjoy it while you keep it. Yeah, true.

I mean, I don't mind it. And

they really did commit to this. I mean, the literal, the whole output across the day, there was something in every single programme.
So, a place in the sun.

Sharon and brendan from east sussex want a home near lake garder another east sussex resident brighton star jack hinchelwood is also hoping for success in europe at the euro under 21 euro tonight they've had to do some research at least a little bit clunky but forget about forget about the the the the actual deployment and the and the and the copy which maybe could be a bit tighter but i i sort of admire the the overall effort because it's it's subtle like no not many people are going to read this stuff not many people are going to see this in in full so i like the fact that it's just hidden away there for just the people that stumble across it.

Well, as the day unfolded, Charlie, these got less subtle. Here's countdown.
Here's a nine-letter word you shouldn't forget. Cresswell.

The Toulouse defenders already won the under 21 Euros with England. Can he help the young lions to another when they kick off tonight? Just getting straight to it.
He scored in the game. So hard.

And then dedicated the goal to

these listings.

Glimey. But yeah, I suppose you've got to promote your stuff however you can.
And all eyeballs are going to be on those, I guess.

Next up, Brad Jones, who yes, does share his name with former Middlesbrough goalkeeper Brad Jones. You don't have to write in about that ever again.

He just keeps sending these in, these excellent contributions. And how about this for a question?

Charlie says, I'm just watching the Club World Cup out of intrigue for the golfing quality more than anything.

And it got me thinking, what would it take for a player from another continent to be considered in the best player in the world conversation?

Surely even 50 goals and all comps, Coppe Libertadores, every domestic trophy wouldn't be enough.

Would they have to win the Club World Cup and play a big part in their country's World Cup win as well?

Well, I don't think the Club World Cup would do it because I think there'd still be question marks about this event.

But yeah, I think they would have to do it in their, I think they'd have to do it at a kind of, yeah, a major tournament like the World Cup. I mean, which is bad.

I mean, I guess it shows how Eurocentric we are or that. the golf that exists, but I just can't, yeah, I can't imagine.

It would just be all the talk about this player would just be, but they've got to go and move to Europe. Like, we don't know how good they are yet.

The closest we've come in in sort of modern times, I mean, you can obviously go back to Pele or whatever, but like the closest we've come recently is Neymar.

In 11, 12, and 13, in the Ballon d'Or rankings, he was in the top 10 or thereabouts whilst playing for Santos still. And there was a bit, you know, people knew about him.

The move to Europe was always being talked about, but he was kind of, he was heralded as already being of a certain level. I think

maybe he didn't get anywhere in the Ballon d'Or, but Carlos Teves a little bit as well when he was in Argentina and Brazil before he moved to Europe.

I seem to remember people talking about him in similar sort of tones.

But still, so wild class, yeah, that's let's break this down though. I mean, first of all, Charlie, um, obviously, Charlie, we're talking about a player playing in South America here.

No other confederation is gonna scratch the surface here.

But as Brad suggests, you could do pretty much everything you could in South America, scoring more than a goal a game, winning the Copa Liberta Dorres, and it probably still wouldn't put you in the conversation.

So let's set that aside.

Your concerns over the Club World Cup, yes, you're right, it's not an important enough competition in its own right yet, but it but it provides the camera opportunity a little bit a little bit like Messi winning the World Cup with Argentina.

It still provides that kind of moment which might sway things, but it would have to be, I think it would have to be a veteran player rather than an up-and-coming player, a player like Messi going back to South America and crowning his career.

Then you've got that extra native.

If he'd gone back to like Newell's Old Boys or something like that and done all of those things as Messi at the age of 35, 36, and then would he still have had to win the World Cup with Argentina as well?

But that poses an interesting question anyway, of like, is Messi world class now? Or like at what point does he stop being world class? You know, he's still

got it famously, but you know, is... Do you lose the world classness as soon as you leave the top European league? Like, or are you always world class?

Was Rooney always a world-class player, even when he was in MLS but Messi wasn't the best player in the world when he won the Ballon d'Or after Argentina won the World Cup was he so a bit of narrative can propel you to that day yeah you'd need a lot of narrative here and it just it it seems too big a gap to bridge I would say yeah I think it is and if the club world cup goes as well as FIFA hope it could possibly go and that in 10

15 years time it's it's elevated to a status where people genuinely care about it and some of the South American and the clubs from all over the world are sort of their level somehow goes up and it becomes more of a thing maybe like you say maybe there would be slightly more reason for a top player to stay or to stay at a South American club or to go there a bit earlier than they would otherwise have done but it's yeah don't rule it out it's still still unlikely but I think then I think it would then reach the threshold of it would be a big talking point and a big debate that you'd have someone saying like well how can he not be world club he's just gone and done it against the best teams in Europe but then the counter being like yeah but he's got to do it consistently in europe

we've not seen that from him so i don't think it would be definitive it would at least create a discussion and messy aside you know whilst he was a standout case in in so many ways the ballon d'or does feel still like a pretty accurate reflection of who the best players in the world are if you took that top 10 you're very unlikely to quibble with the people in there maybe the order but you it's still a fair reflection of who the best players in the world are so for now we can rely on it as a good judge.

But yeah, give it 10, 15 years of solid club world cupping. You never know.
An interesting one for Brad Jones. Come back when it does happen and you'll be vindicated.

Easy one for us perhaps next, Dave. Joe Brooke says, How many positions does a player need to play in in order to be a Swiss army knife of a player? Now, I really like this phrase.

I really like it being deployed. I don't necessarily think it has to be an overtly versatile player, like a Luis Enrique Championship Manager, DMA, RLC.

I think it's more about roles and abilities rather than positions specifically. I mean that's where football's going these days.
It's not about positions, it's about roles.

Yeah, it's sort of, it's not just somebody that can just play like centre-back and right back or fill in one or the other.

It's like being able to do two different things that are two or three different things that are really different in the manner of a Swiss army knife.

You've got the corkscrew, you've got the little nail clipper,

you've got a knife.

They are one of the coolest things ever invented. But Charlie, let's take, I don't know, Philip Lahm, for example,

who wasn't incredibly versatile, but did a couple of roles very well. I wouldn't call him a Swiss Army knife by any stretch.
No, that's too,

yeah, he's got too, too few specialisms, I guess. Like you say, he's got a couple really nailed down.
So who's Swiss Army knife these days? Who's fitting this?

I'm trying to think, because you do, and I agree, I really like it as an expression. You hear it, you hear it quite a lot.
You hear it about,

and this might sound like an odd example in a way someone like ben white as a right back is someone who can play as a kind of up and down overlappy right back or he can play as a kind of tucked in right back or he can play as just a i'm going to sit and basically be a centre back here so it's kind of or some there's even enough for me

yeah but there's even the something like he's such a good ball play could he play as a midfielder type thing that used to get about like a david louise or someone but maybe that's maybe that's within one role too much i would say so i mean dave how about dude bellingham for example who doesn't

play lots of different positions, but he does seem to have this kind of slightly nebulous footballing ability that you can't really classify.

Like, what's he overtly good at in comparison to all the other things that he's good at? So, I would call him slightly Swiss Army knifey.

Like, I would back him to sit in front of a defense if he absolutely had to, but then he does all these other things as well. It's got to the point, man.
I'm absolutely baffled by what he does do.

Is he actually any good? That's where I've got to with him. He's really good, but

he scored a goal for Real Madrid in their most recent game, which was like a real proper strikers sort of take and finish.

And he had that season two years ago where he kind of played up front for Real Madrid.

Yeah, I think you're onto something with that.

He does embody those sorts of qualities. I'm just really annoyed that David Aliver isn't Swiss.

You've just Googled that, haven't you? I just have to look at, oh no, he's Austrian.

Close enough.

But I feel like Bellingham's a bit too elite for that. Like, maybe that's something.
Maybe I

just more functional. Do you think it needs to be a more functional thing? A little bit and I yeah, I kind of associate it more with a sort of a filling in.

You can do lots of different things, defensive, midfield.

Bellingham's a bit too kind of a premium product, I think, to be a Swiss army knife. This is a kind of like second, you know, because it's not like your main weapon or your main accessory.

It's just like a does lots of different things to a reasonable standard.

I think he's a bit too good for that.

You're not cutting up any vegetables with your Swiss Army knife, I imagine.

I mean, we're kind of drawn towards fullbacks in this day and age because they are so, you know, sort of forcibly moved into other situations, Dave.

Like someone like Mark Kucarella, who is clearly a fullback by trade, but then gets pushed into midfield and he ends up sort of playing as number 10 almost in Chelsea's very strange system.

But he needs to physically be able to do something other than looking like fullbacky things.

If he's leaping high and winning headers in a sort of Thomas Suchek kind of way, then that would make him a Swiss Army knife. I'd need him to to be taller, basically.

If Mark Cogrella was 5'11, I think he'd have a good shout at this. You do need to be a bit taller, I think.
For some reason,

I'm not having any short Swiss army knives. Could young Archie Gray at Spurs? I mean, he's played in like every position.

And he seems to be just, he seems to be a bit like one of those kids who's just amazed who's like amazing at every sport.

And you can kind of just transpose them and they'll like, yeah, he's also a really good 800-metre runner. And yeah, he's a good cricketer, actually, Archie Gray, as well.
Not sure

that helps, not sure, so he can play, so he can play anywhere. They're something of a Swiss Army family, aren't they? The Greys, yeah, there's so many of them, yeah, got everything there.

Set of Swiss Army knives, you've got this whole, you've got the whole site, yeah, they're all the same, but yeah, no, I like this.

I mean, obviously, he was kind of forced into playing various positions last year, but that clearly he's going to be asked to do that again in the next few years.

Yeah, they see him as a midfielder, I mean, yeah, where you're like to a point, like you don't even know what his best position is, yeah. Okay, well, that's the best shout so far.
I like this a lot.

Right, that's it for part two. We'll be back in a moment.

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That is wonderful!

Welcome back to Football Clichés. This is the adjudication panel.
Now, here's this week's cast everything into doubt that you may ever have thought about this subject or not.

It comes from Druner on Reddit. And it's a question about passing range, Dave.

When people reference a player's passing range, are they talking about the variety of passes in their locker, booming crossfield, through ball, short and precise, etc., or simply the distance that they can accurately pass the ball?

I always thought it was the former to highlight someone's repertoire, but then all players described as having a brilliant passing range are more known for their long-distance passes.

Skulls of Manchester, Pierlo, Beckham. You'd highlight Xavi Alonso's passing range, but never Xavi's or Iani Estas, even though you'd categorise all as amazing pastors.
Alonso can just ping it.

I've never really doubted my initial understanding, and now it's taking over my morning. I don't want to stay out of this.
I don't want to make a fool of myself.

I don't know which one I would instinctively think. I think I've been under the impression that it's the latter, that it is literally about...

your ability to go long or put the ball at whatever distance you want it to be. You can do it all.
There's no pass that you haven't got.

But actually, the way it's described there, I suppose it is a bit of both. It's not just about pure distance.
It is about technique and

your variety. But that does make sense.
But Charlie, let's think about is common usage.

If you think about a pundit commonly deploying it in their analysis, are they talking about long-range passes or are they talking about a variety of passes?

Or third option, is it just that long passes grab the attention more and

do add that texture to a passing range? I think it should be about what I've always thought it to mean and what I've always thought people mean is it's the range of their passing.

Yes, it's the variety, it's the fact that you know he can go five yards, ten yards, twenty, thirty, he can ping it, he can play it short. That's what passing range should be.

And I would actually question that.

I would say Jabbi Alonso, what I always loved about him, he could play short passes, but even short passes, he's playing in a kind of amazing Xiabi Alonso-type way where he'd sort of be fading it and like doing all this nice stuff.

I think part of it comes from as well, an assumption that if you can ping a pass 40, 50 yards, you can probably play a short pass as well and you kind of make that assumption even though like paul scoles of manchester i kind of i'm sure people can't remember it but they just think i'm sure he can play a short pass why couldn't he he could do everything else really well yeah i think scoles and alonzo are great examples of this of of players who you who you primarily think of as quite expansive in in in terms of their passing.

They loved a cross-field ping, but both good touch players as well. So

I'm really baffled by what I don't know. I don't know what I think about this.
I'm really troubled.

But a good example of someone who doesn't have what I think of as a good passing range necessarily is Stephen Gerrard, who obviously was synonymous with Hollywood passes. Right.

And I think the accusation at him was that he doesn't have a great passing range because he can't do the short simple stuff as well.

But yeah, but could you chuck that in about Gerrard and nobody would sort of bat an eyelid?

He's got running power, he's got passing range, and people would just think, yeah, he hits crossfield passes. No, but like you say, Charlie, surely he means he can't pass short, surely.

He can, can't he? He did, didn't he? Did he not? Well, you're not talking about five yards. You're talking about sort of you know, threaded between the lines.

Yeah, a little bit, but even just the ability to do the metronomic Jabbi Alonso stuff of I'm going to play at five here, I'm going to get it back, I'm going to give you the ball, and then I'm going to get, you know, I don't think of Gerrard, I feel he was too impatient.

He'd just get it and be like, nah, well, I can see someone over there, I'm going to ping it. Yeah, yeah.
The golden generation effect is like,

we have to get rid of this ball upfield as soon as possible. Exactly, whereas there is a skill for playing short passes and a lot of them.

And actually, if you think about it, the slip moment is because he's cocked his leg back to try and do one of those Stephen Gerard style passes rather than just kind of that's his default position.

Is you think of Gerrard getting the ball, taking that little touch out of his feet and looking up and he's ready to ping one, whether that be 60 yards or 30 yards or whatever, but he's doing it in a certain way that eventually led to that moment.

Yeah, if he had that passing range, that would never have happened.

Could have just gone back to the keeper. You need that in your locker as well.
I'm really, really glad they raised this. However, you say their name on Reddit.

Finally, it's arrived. The trailer for Saipan, the film about Roy Keene, Mick McCarthy, and Ireland's 2002 World Cup training camp has dropped.
Here it is.

Please do stay tuned. We'll get the latest news of this coming as soon as we get to Maryland.

There could be some sort of split in the campaign.

And here's Roy Keene! Roy Keene!

What makes him a great player on the pitch makes him a pain in the ass off it? Roy Keen is not going on.

People are one side or another. Roy Kane's done nothing wrong.
I feel he's back to his country.

You're unmanageable. No, it's you that can't manage.
That's the problem.

I thought it was right. What a bad joke.
He's the best player we have. You fucked up.

Earthquake shook the nation. I don't think we're done.
You never tell me when we're done. I'm just getting stabbed here.

I mean, first of all, Dave, just to say a broad observation about film trailers now, that film could be about anything. It could be like the next Godzilla film.

The fact that it starts with some coordinates of where Saipan is, it's just like,

yeah, and the shot of the, like, of the bay or the sea, the seafront. Yeah, you're right.
Yeah, it could be.

Kicks in. Feel a bit Godzilla.
Yeah.

It looks good, though. Yeah, there's plenty of promise there, but there are also, for me, a few little alarm bells as well.

I think, first of all, I mean, Steve Coogan, as you'd expect, his Mick McCarthy accent sounds like it's going to be pretty spot on.

I think I always, I do struggle a little bit with this, with anything that Coogan's in, just to not see Alan Partridge just visually, because that's just one of those things.

But I'm sure he'll be really good. If you haven't seen this, check it out.

Aina Hardwick, who plays Roy Keen. We'll see what his performance is like in the whole film,

in the full context. But

he just looks a bit too tall and rangy. Like, he looks like a sort of modern centre-back.
He doesn't look like Roy Keen enough to me.

He looks, Charlie. He looks like a fairly plausible footballer, Aina Hardwick, in this film, but he looks like a Republic of Ireland international who also plays in the championship currently.

Yeah, yeah, to the extent that when I, it took me a second after seeing it or the following scene to to be like, oh, that was Roy Keane. Right.

Whereas obviously, yeah, because my football brain went to, yeah, that does look like a kind of slightly hard man centre-back. And obviously, you know Mick McCarthy so well.

I am excited. Like, I agree with you, Dave, with Steve Coogan, but at the same time, Steve Coogan, it feels like quite a gift to have this incredibly talented person putting his talents towards.

like a football, a funny football moment from 2002. It's like, great.
Yeah, please keep doing this. Do some like keys and greys stuff for our amusement.

I'm excited to see where the humour does spill out in this film because it does have a humorous element, I'm led to believe. Steve Coogan's Mick McCarthy, then, Dave, the voice,

only a little glimpse of it in the trailer. The voice is a solid 8 out of 10 at least.
Looks-wise, they haven't really gone to town on it, which is probably good. There's no prosthetic nose.

They've given him grey hair. It's slicked back a bit.
That's as much McCarthy as they've needed to do to him. Yeah, that's fine.

I think we'll probably be able to suspend our disbelief. I think if his accent and mannerisms are as good as we expect them to be, I'll probably be fine.

There was a tantalising little glimpse in the trailer of a shot of, it's only there for like half a second.

It's McCarthy, his two coaches, and most of the squad sort of sitting around the dinner table.

And I was going through it trying to kind of pick out who I thought which player was, but they all look quite similar, so I'm not quite sure. One slightly Gary Breeny looking guy.

The rest of them, I wouldn't be able to pick. And no Lee Carsley, very annoying.
I've been cut out. That's annoying.

But

it looks slick, Charlie.

I would definitely go and watch this at the cinema, I think. Oh, yeah, definitely.
We should be at the premiere. Yeah, we should be.

Looking forward to the sequel about Gary Breen's aborted move to inter. Saipan 2.

The return of Gary Breen.

Gary Breen's revenge. I've actually been watching, re-watching The Trip recently.

New series out. Coogan.
Right, Rest is Entertainment.

They start talking about football at one point, and he says he doesn't like football.

So maybe that rules him out for an MHD. And I hope that doesn't bleed into his, you know, let his performance down in any way.

That'll be the thing that rules him out of it. Yeah, you need to be able to get a lot of people.
There's got to be somebody to play football or something.

There's got to be somebody from this film that we can get on as an MHD. It has to be.
Hardwick. Maybe Hardwick's a big football fan, hopefully.
His delivery of Keene's lines is quite good.

That sort of... That sort of sneer that he's got.
Yeah, the accent was quite good. Yeah.
Well, you'd hope so, wouldn't you? So, yeah, looking forward to this.

The information just leaks out about this gradually. It's fantastic.

Thanks to you, David Walker. Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshare.
Thank you. Thanks to everyone for listening.
Get your voice notes in for the listeners' mezza Harland Dicks this week.

And we'll see you then. Bye-bye.

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This is Bethany Frankl from Just Be with Bethany Frankl. Let me tell you something.
Most dog food, scam. Kibble, trash, garbage, and there are so many bad ingredients.

I prefer to not put ultra-processed junk in my body. So why would I want to give that to my furry babies, Biggie and Smalls? Fun, beautiful fact.
My former dog lived to 18.

So my dogs love just fresh from just food for dogs. It is real food.
It is made with human-grade ingredients, balanced, healthy, and here is the kicker. It's shelf-stable.

You can throw a pouch in the purse in the car in a weekender bag and your furry friends eat fresh wherever you are. You will notice the difference.

Biggie and smalls have shinier coats, more energy, and at mealtime, forget it. Tails wagging like lunatics.
And I don't have to stress about preservatives or fillers.

It's the only fresh dog food food that actually fits into my life. No cooler, no fridge, no gross messiness, no problem.
Just fresh, try it, and you tell me I'm wrong.

Go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50% off your first order. No code needed.
Just do it now. JustfoodfordDogs.com.