5.88 EFL seconds, Andy Townsend in song intros & the "sick of the sight of him" threshold

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Match of the the day goal vocalizations, an unexpected host of 6.06 on Saturday evening, Arna Slot learns a very mundane English sporting word, fishing with Enzo Mareska's dad, Spurs Yankuba Minter and the sick of the sight of him threshold, Charlie Austin's Skysports News residency, when did modern football aesthetically begin, Rafinha's 20-hour drive to the beach, how does a team become all-conquering, and Andy Gray in the Be in Bomb Squad.

Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts.

This is Football Clichés.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Football Cliches.

I'm Adam Hurry.

This is the adjudication panel.

Joining me, Charlie Eccleshare.

How are you doing?

Very well, thank you.

Alongside you, David Walker.

How are things?

Things are good.

Excellent.

Charlie, you mentioned the other day how on the Sunday edition of Match of the Day, they race through Saturday's goals from funny camera angles.

Well, you found an ally.

Here's Chappers on Match of the Day on Sunday night.

The day's highlights out of the way, and here he is queuing up the rest of the formalities.

Now, from really odd camera angles that make it quite difficult for an old duffer like me to see what's happened, here are yesterday's games.

Yeah, I'm absolutely delighted with this.

Like, it feels like vindication.

It's coming right from the very top.

Someone shares my view on this.

And I don't think it's about being an old duffer.

I think it's just about wanting to actually understand what these goals are, have some, you know, to actually see how they were scored rather than these like, yeah, these zany angles that do nothing.

Dave, this is now a weekly event.

It's like we've got a direct line to the head honchos and mads of the day.

Everything we say.

I know, rent-free.

But that is, I mean, I can very much imagine Chappers would have seen that last week and gone, hmm, he had a little word, I think, with one of the producers and go, do you think we could just, should we just make it a bit more normal next week?

Trying to mix things up.

Here's a little story for you came from listener Joseph.

He says, I'm a young cliches enjoyer, 15.

And last week I won a book voucher for character at school somehow.

Anyway, I went to Waterstones and spent the voucher on Extra Time Beckons Penalties Loom.

Unbeknownst to me, it turns out we don't keep these books and instead we are presented them by the Mayor of Bexley.

So now, somehow, the Mayor of Bexley is going to present me with Extra Time Beckons Penalties Loom in front of hundreds of people.

Wow.

Paperback or hardback?

Dunno.

Hoping hardback.

For the occasion.

Wow, listen, fair play.

Do we know much about the Mayor of Bexley?

I mean, is he a possible fan of yours, Adam?

Don't know.

Might he have read the book?

Wouldn't put it past him.

It's a very knowledgeable mayor.

But yeah, couldn't have asked for greater exposure.

Well, I mean, you say he, it's actually a she.

Oh, sorry.

Shouldn't have assumed.

I thought they were called mayoresses.

Christine Caterall.

Oh, right.

Christine, if you're listening.

Hope you enjoy the book or at least presenting it to a 15-year-old.

Speaking of doing things in front of hundreds of people, Cliches Live in 2025 is in just under two weeks to go until the tour kicks off in earnest down on the south coast at Comedia in Brighton.

Still a few tickets left for that one.

I'm interested, Dave, to see which of the eight tour destinations produces the highest happy hunting ground score in the pub afterwards.

Who are you backing historically?

Yeah, good question.

We do not, there's usually one sort of level eight every time, isn't there?

Manchester's ranked highly in the past.

Leeds quite good as well.

There was a Dublin one.

There was a big Dublin moment.

Yeah.

That seems like a lot of people.

They love their prem.

Can I tell you, by the way, on in earnest, I used in earnest, I mean, because I would use it advisedly, but it felt actually really right.

Because in tennis, at the moment, the Asia swing, there have been some tournaments that kind of started last week, but a bit of a soft launch.

But then this week is when the kind of biggest tournaments start and the kind of all the big names arrive.

So I kind of described it as starting in earnest this week.

So I think it felt like a non-just, you know, just chucking out kind of way.

Prefer in earnest to in anger, I have to say.

In earnest, in earnest, from you, it's good, yeah, very much so.

Anyway, earnest, angry, or otherwise, go to tickets.football clichés.com and join us for what is our best show ever, and that is a promise.

Right, adjudication panel time.

Uh, let's kick off with this.

It was pointed out by listener Gary, some great goal vocalizations on Match of the Day this weekend.

Tom Gale at Molyneux and Mark Scott at the Emirates, the standouts.

It is Anton Stack.

Ah!

Martinelli!

Both nice in very different ways, Charlie.

The first one,

the only thing I could equate it to is like being punched by your brother at the dinner table when

the first one's less familiar to me as a football commentator noise.

The second one feels very recognizable.

That's kind of exactly what I was like when you the nature of that goal as well.

It's got just just the right level of kind of build-up.

That Martinelli goal, Dave, the Mark Scott commentary basically reflects the trajectory of the ball, which I think is really classy.

It's perfect because that goal, when watching it live,

from the TV angle at least, you weren't quite sure it was going to go in till it went in.

Yeah.

So, and that you can hear that in his voice as well.

It's Martinelli.

I know it's just lovely delivery, but yeah, the first one is absolutely mad, but I really enjoyed it.

I like it when a commentator has the ability to have either like a rasp or a net, it was almost like a gargle, sort of, you know, just a bit of a noise in your throat when in a big moment is a good thing to have in your arsenal as a commentator.

It's visceral, isn't it?

I really want to do a whole Dreamland episode on how goals are commentated on.

I think we could do a really good job with this, so that's a long-term project for me.

Speaking of matches of the day, Nick Gilbert writes in China and says, As a Manchester United fan, I haven't had cause to watch MOTD lately.

However, following a rare victory, I watched this weekend and was shocked that the United highlights ended without showing the final whistle while the camera was on Ruben Amarim.

Surely extended highlights must include the final whistle.

I don't agree with this, Charlie.

This hasn't been a thing on Match of the Day for a long time.

It ends on a replay of a late chance basically

of a ball kind of dribbling harmlessly wide.

It's sort of my ideal sort of, you know, just...

Just a gentle outro for the highlights, isn't it?

Yeah, exactly.

Just a kind of calming end.

But they do sometimes do it.

Really?

I think so.

And maybe it's more of a Match of the Day Sunday kind of thing, which is a bit more kind of journalistic and storytelling and approach.

If it's a big, big game and you want to see the sort of players sort of interacting afterwards, especially if there's been beef as well.

Yeah.

But I wouldn't expect it as a matter of course.

But yeah, Dave, if you took a typical match of the day game, neither top of the table or relegation battle or anything like that, then from an editor's perspective, it's just a bit of faff, isn't it?

That's going to take up a precious few seconds, isn't it?

Yeah, you'd have to have a reason to do it.

I think potentially, you know with amarim's situation i mean maybe if he'd lost it would have been you show him in the range certainly yeah i think so just looking into the middle distance but also old trafford it does lend itself very nicely to those shots the walk down the touchline into the tunnel is often quite good if you need a few seconds of manager looking happy you know rude van nisseroy when he was acknowledging all the fans or someone sort of walking down with their hands in their pockets and their head down it does work nicely i think this editorial decision charlie probably affects people more who are watching the highlights without knowing the score.

So, like, if they're watching their own team in the highlights, you know, chasing an equaliser or something, and then, like, oh, is that gonna be the final chance?

They're gonna cut out from here, are they?

Oh, no, the ball's dribbling over the line.

Oh, no, that's gonna be it.

Yeah, and which is why, as well, when if I'm thinking back to when I did occasionally watch Match Day without knowing, why there was something really reassuring about that kind of last dribble wide, and then a score comes up, and you're just like, Yeah, see, it sort of parachutes you into despair.

Next one comes from Neil Turner.

Injury time at Old Trafford on Saturday evening.

Conor McNamara on five live offering up a tantalizing prospect.

Right, we are midway through the seven minutes now of stoppages.

Three and a half to go.

Yeah, Chelsea will just want one more chance.

Man United, they're just naturally they're falling further and further back.

Many times at Old Trafford we've seen him fishing in the last few minutes.

Well, looks like the other way around this time.

Now Ross Kempford and Chris Sutton will be ready to take your calls.

08085-909-693.

Ross Kempf on doing 606.

That would be tremendous.

I really want it to happen.

Can they do it for like children in need or something?

Yeah, what a double act with Chris Sutton as well.

They'd really get into it, wouldn't they?

So I could see Chris Sutton as an EastEnders baddie.

He'd be the one that he'd be like the 78th person to take over the

nightclub.

Yeah.

Sort of sneering enough, isn't he?

He'd look down on them and it would really grind their gears.

Yeah, like overtly flashy man.

Like he's got a lantern, a nice jacket, and that means he owns the leather jacket.

Could see him being a sort of long-lost son or cousin or someone who just appears.

He's been living out in East Anglia.

Yeah, yeah.

It's with Jackson.

Hard to explain.

Gets the train from Norwich into Stratford or whatever.

Yep.

Ross Kemp, brilliant.

Writes, a favourite subject of ours.

Premier League managers, Charlie, being confronted with English colloquialisms and then looking a little bit baffled.

This was a real borderline case.

Could have gone either way on a slot at a Liverpool's pre-match press conference.

Oh nice.

Is that a Scottish bird or English?

English okay.

He's back in the freight.

In the squat I would say.

Charlie in the fray could have easily gone under the radar here.

He could have shrugged that one off.

He sought to challenge it and that's fine.

I really like it.

I think it's done in just like it seems to me to come from a genuine genuine linguistic curiosity.

Like his English is obviously amazing and fluent, but it is an idiom he's not heard before.

And I think he is,

and I hope it's properly explained to him because it sounds a little bit like he's he's like, oh, I'd say the squad.

I hope he knows that fray doesn't mean it's not like a, you know, fray is obviously a vaguer kind of, you know, like it's in the mix or something.

Yeah, it's not, it's not a technical term.

Exactly.

I mean, I mean, to

lend Arnis lots of support here, Dave, being in the fray has got nothing to do with being in the squad, right?

that's being that's actually entering the field of play to me the fray is the action itself right i yeah absolutely so curtis yeah with a player like curtis jones as well he's someone who is a good performer when he plays but isn't a guaranteed starter because of just how many good players liverpool have so that i'm sure i'm sure they're asking there is he is he in the fray to like actually start this game not just in the squad i'm not having fray in this context at all um it's it's been all one big mix-up no one's coming out with this any credit um a year ago um we enjoyed this new twist on a managerial press conference classic.

Charlie, I've got a question for you.

In a press conference, when a football manager is presented with the idea that they might be under pressure, what do they normally sort of reply with?

Something along the lines of that's part of the job or...

Well, you may enjoy this from Damien Duff.

And he said, in response to a question about being under pressure as a manager, Duff said, pressure?

You think this is pressure?

I'll tell you about pressure.

My little girl is going to her first teenage disco tonight.

That's pressure.

That's good.

What a brilliant new addition to the that's pressure genre that is.

Who normally gets the that's pressure?

Paramedics.

Yeah, normally that's kind of laborers and people who do who are doing kind of tough jobs, you know, real proper jobs, not like this.

Yeah, that's a real divergence from that discourse.

Yeah, I think

nurses, frontline staff, key workers.

So yeah, Damian Duff took it off in a strange direction, but here is Enzo Mareskiga bringing it back to its natural habitat, talking about the indignity of being a member of Chelsea's bomb squad.

But it's not about Chelsea, it's about any club in the world.

I know, but it's about the human at the centre of this, isn't it?

Like their health, their mental health.

You know, I'm not sure if you can.

My father is 75 years old, and for 50 years, he has been a fisherman, working from two o'clock in the morning until 10 o'clock in the morning.

This is art in life.

Not a player the way they work.

Classic.

A good profession to evoke.

You can help him out, can't you, Enzo?

Chuck him a few quid, buy him a nice house.

Christ.

If I was really digging deep into this, Charlie, so Maresko's dad got into fishing at 25, a late bloomer in the fishing industry, the Ian Wright of fishing.

I had exactly the same thought.

I even was going to put when you put it on our WhatsApp group, I was going to say, like, oh, quite late to the fishing game.

He's probably born and bred, is he?

Did he try something else, that estate agent?

I was saying, ah, fuck it.

I'm going to take on something much more stressful.

It is the sort of thing you could just pick up, though, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah, I suppose so.

Oh, God.

Anyways, speaking of Chelsea, their chaotic 2-1 defeat at Manchester United on Saturday evening, LT34 writes in, David says, Rob Hawthorne on Sky has just described Lenny Yorrow and Mason Mount as being thrown on by Ruben Amarim.

But surely you can only throw on subs when you're losing.

Spot on, really, isn't it?

I mean, throwing on has an act of desperation about it, almost literally.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I mean, if you're desperately defending a leader at the last minute, or I think

generally, yes, it is the when you're losing.

That's obviously like the main example, but I can sort of imagine a Fletch or someone being like, and in the madness, he's just thrown on an extra couple of defenders because you're conveying the fact that it's all happening.

And it's suddenly, from them being comfortable, they've just, I don't know, had a man sent off, they've just conceded.

And actually, we're in a game all of a sudden.

And the manager's slightly frazzled and been like, fuck, I need a, I'm going to put a defender on and a defensive midfielder.

What about yesterday?

The Arsenal City game, Arteta threw on Mosquera for one minute, didn't he, at the end?

Literally just for that free kick at the end.

He got him on quick just to have another tall player in the box.

Speaking of substitutions during that game, Charlie, do you think that the 18-year-old 10-stone Brazilian winger Esteval is the most taken off when you're goal positive in central player of all time?

He must have been away from home in the rain.

Yeah, it's probably going to be me, isn't it?

As soon as that red card out, he must have started trudging immediately.

It's like, oh, even I know this.

I'm only 18.

I get it.

Yeah,

absolutely perfect.

I mean, wasn't it in the 2006 Chemistry final?

Was it Reyes who got hooked when Lehman got sent off?

And again, I think it was, I mean, that was the end of his Arsenal career.

But I think, again, it was just like, sorry, mate, you are absolutely perfect for this role.

I mean, some teams might have two wafy wingers, Dave.

It's possible these days, certainly.

But I put it to you that every time a goalkeeper's been sent off early, there's always been an absolute standout candidate.

It's never been even remotely open to debate who's coming off.

Yeah, because, and

they're just the most they're just the most disposable players aren't true industry players aren't they you know and then the next would be probably fullbacks but but but you need you still want you don't you don't want to disrupt your back four your back five your defensive unit you don't want to take off them anyone from the middle of the pitch not going to take off the striker centre back what's going on

up

there's rubbish on the ball so it just has to be someone up there who you could just sort of do without if you have to close like that.

Actually, I was thinking, actually, it wasn't, it was uh Pires who got sent off in that game.

Though that thing they had Kleb, so they did have a few candidates.

I guess that was like the fully yes.

Kleb's a very kind of like you know, flighty winger.

I suppose in the 4-4-2 days, you could take off the second striker and just go 4-4-1.

Yeah, interesting to see how that's evolved.

Over to the Amex now for Brighton versus Spurs.

Ewan Brady alerts us to this from the BBC live blog, Dave.

Brighton won Tottenham-you and Kuba Minte has now scored two goals in three appearances in the Premier League against Tottenham.

They'll be sick of the sight of him.

You and says two and three, surely far too soon to be saying they're sick of the sight of him.

I agree.

I don't think this meets the threshold.

What's the sick of the sight of him threshold?

Who's the team that Harry Kane has a really good record against, Charlie Lester?

Leicester.

Yeah, they are definitely sick of the sight of him.

Yeah, I love this because it's like just being

just being too eager to get that out.

And also, I just, I don't know, I don't think he's re, you you know, he's like, because exactly as Dave says, there are players who every fan base is like, oh, terrified of.

He always scores against us.

I just don't think Minter is like that far embedded in the Spurs.

Were they even decisive goals?

Those two goals as well.

So, I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, this one wouldn't

reasonably.

Oh, God, this was included in the total.

Yeah, this is absolute nonsense, isn't it?

You're looking at a minimum of three games that they've scored in against that opponent, Charlie.

Is that fair?

In quick succession?

Yeah, I think they need if it's a few, if it's not many games, then it needs to be, um, yeah, then I think it needs to be they need to have scored in all of them.

And then, obviously, if it's like seven and eight or something, fine.

It's not sort of definite.

I think it needs to be over a number of, yeah, like three seasons.

You know, just it needs the repetitive element of it really does need to be emphasised.

Watford have got a bit of a thing with Josh Sargent of Norwich, who seems to keep scoring against him.

And there are particular players like that, the sort of forwards that wind you up.

I don't have him into that as being one of these guys for some reason.

Well, as well, so he scored, he did he scored last season, but it was in a 3-2 where Spurs were tuning up, then he got the 2-1 Brightner back in it.

Okay.

But Welbeck, it was Welbeck who scored the winner, Rutta who got the equaliser.

So those, I think, like that Welbeck goal is remembered, you know, because it's quite crap-defending and it's the winner, and it's a big turnaround.

But that's the goal that would stay in most fans' mind, I think, from that game, rather than Minter's making it 2-1.

Yeah, he can just hit the threshold.

It really suits sort of nippy, annoying forwards who are, and also they're not necessarily prolific.

They just seem to have a thing.

With Harry Kane,

there's going to be some club which he scores slightly more goals than all the others, but he generally scores against everyone.

But somebody like Sergeant, I think Shane Long did it.

Shane Long again.

Shane Long is just going to say it.

Why does he always score against us?

Because Sick of the Side of Him works perfectly then because they're annoying as well.

They are like, just fucking stop running, stop charging down our...

defenders like they're just a bit of an irritant and they seem to disproportionately score against your team for a bit of extra context here Charlie, you know, you know how currencies are pegged to the dollar.

Could we peg to Sick of the Sight of him the concept of he just loves playing against Team X?

I mean, they are equivalent concepts, they have the same criteria, right?

Very much so, because that implies as well that they relish it, which you get the sense that those players do, that they sense, like, you know, I know I've sort of

irritate this team and I relish that.

And if a commentary said that about minting on Saturday, I know what he said, he just loves it.

That's two and three now

he's literally done it again

i think as well that this this the reason this has come about it's um uh what i will call the tmsification of football live blogging right when you're doing a live blog obviously you're just gonna have you need stuff to say every minute or so so you're just looking through oh that is that a stat oh yeah gone that chucked that one out there whereas if someone like in cricket on tms you get it all the time they have like Andy Zaltzmann on TMS who, because of the nature of the game, there's always some sort of weird stat that you can find about anything that's happened and it sort of fits into the general tapestry of it more.

Whereas this is just, there's a desperation about it.

Do you know what it is as well?

And we're obviously going like ridiculously.

Keep going.

I like it.

Last season, Brighton scored seven goals against Spurs with six different scorers.

So they were so spread out.

It's at New York Spurs now as well.

It's a completely different administration.

They won't visit.

They're completely indifferent to Yangooba Minter.

Kind of.

There are so many other scorers.

Since Minter scored, in between Minter scoring his first and his second against Spurs in those three appearances, five different Brighton players scored against Spurs.

So I think that just adds to the sense that he's not like the guy that, you know, who's always there haunting them.

He's not a drog butter Arsenal kind of character.

Oh, dear.

Yeah, I think that's quite enough from us on that one.

Right.

A question I've been meaning to ask for a few weeks now.

Why is Charlie Austin always on Sky Sports News?

And here he is in, I think, hitting his pomp now.

Good morning, Charlie Austin.

Right, okay.

Finisher rather than substitute.

I'm not having it.

What do you make of that?

I'm not having it.

It's just another change of terminology that we keep going on about, really.

A new word in football, finisher coming on.

Ultimately, the sub.

Every sub wants to be a starter.

I'm not really buying into that.

I understand he's trying to keep all the players happy and that, but

yeah, but the term, a substitute suggests

in football, players know

if you're on the bench, you're on the bench, whether they say, oh, you're coming on to change the game 20 minutes ago.

I'm just.

Is super sub not a positive term?

It's always been super sub, but now all of a sudden we're changing it and adding the finishers into football because we think we can glam it up a little bit.

I'm not buying into it.

Great work for the presenter there, not letting him just go fool Dean Saunders unofficially.

He's swallowed a laptop, hadn't he?

Chucking in Super Sub was really clever there, actually, Charlie.

I like that.

Yeah, yeah, that was good.

I mean, he went in a few times.

Charlie Ostend,

if he's getting paid by the hour, Dave, on Sky Sports News, he's doing very well.

He's always on it.

He does seem to, yeah, must be a joke.

They need help.

Nice little regular gig.

But Finnisher is

a rugby thing that's crept in, as I understand.

Yeah, Eddie Jones coined it when he was England manager.

I mean, obviously, and it's just made made for this sort of discourse, isn't it?

I mean, like,

you know, I love the idea, though, of it, but you know, being put to Mikel Arteta, like, I know you use it and it's important to culture, but Charlie Austin said he's not having it.

Just wanted to get your thoughts on that, Mikel.

Look, he's welcome to his opinion.

Yeah,

scored a lot of goals on the lower legs.

That's the end of part one.

We'll be back very shortly.

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Oh, look at that!

Welcome back to Football Clichés.

We're recording episode 8 of Dreamland this week.

Thoroughly looking forward to it.

If you want to get involved for $5.99,

if you want to get involved for $5.99 a month, you get ad-free listening, two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive new show, and other bits as well.

Just go to dreamland.football clichés.com.

Also, by the way,

also by the way thursday's episode this week is going to be the listeners mezet harlan dicks so please get in touch via dm on twitter email me at football cliches at gmail.com with your niche obscure footballing fascinations and irritations they can be absolutely anything and we'll pick the best six for thursday's episode time for footballers names in things

a lovely trio for you increasing in quality as we go this first one comes from cam footballers names in credit risk specialists My name is Patrick Bamford, head of Quoris in the UK.

We focus on mortgage indenting insurance, building societies, ensuring a high-lean-to-value mortgages.

Good to know

he's got straight back into the swing of things, found himself some work straight away.

He's good.

Very nice.

Patrick Bamford.

Next up, this came from Tim Hills, footballers' names in World Championship Race Walking.

It's going to be silver for China as Wang crosses the line ahead of a very, very tired Paul McGrath of Spain.

The Spain is a great reveal as well.

He couldn't have moved to Spain.

He's got his citizenship.

That can't be good for his knees, can it?

Yeah, Paul McGrath, born and raised in Barcelona, has a Spanish mother, a Scottish father, and Irish grandparents.

His father's from Glasgow, keen football fan, and he's a Celtic season ticket.

Eligible.

Paul McGrath.

There we go.

Brilliant.

Paul McGrath Benito, to give him his full name.

Nice.

Why is it funny?

Don't know.

Right.

Finally, this came from Rich James.

I got this within about four minutes.

It's some co-commentary in song intros.

Here is South African psych pop ace Joshua Morris with Something on My Mind.

Why not sample Andy Townsend at the start of your song, Charlie?

Why not do that?

Yeah, and what was the game?

It was the 56th minute of Croatia versus Japan in the last 16 at the 2022 World Cup.

That's Wataro Endo having a shot tipped over the bar by Dominic Milanovic.

They found that off the World Feed.

Yeah.

Why?

Fair play.

Why?

What is it doing?

Was he could have been on ITV?

Was he on ITV, Townsend, in the World Cup?

I don't know.

He was.

Was he?

Maybe.

I think he's a World Feedman for the

TV these days.

Yeah.

Interesting.

I mean, this isn't the first time we've heard commentary samples at the start of a song.

We had Bill Leslie and Don Goodman, didn't we?

One of them last year.

What's the thinking there, Joshua Morris?

Yeah.

Is World Feed...

Is there a rights?

Is it easiest to get the rights for World Feed?

If anything, FIFA owned the rights of that, so they're going to come down very hard.

Maybe they will now.

Yeah.

Sorry, mate.

Yeah, sorry.

Had to do it.

Speaking of Andy Tanzan, I got a DM this weekend from Guion Sampson with a very curious tale.

He says, a random story that I need to share with you.

I work in TV and I was trying to book Welsh comedian Mike Bubbins as a guest of one of our shows.

So I contacted his agency.

I got a reply from a guy called Andy Townsend and thought, listen, good footballers names in things there, fair play.

It's only when I googled this guy in the agency I realized it's actually Andy Townsend.

He's genuinely Mike Bubbins' agent.

A lovely surprise and can confirm he has a nice email demeanor.

So I sent this to Dave and went, this can't be right, can it?

And Dave was like, no, it's not, because Dave googled him immediately and found this completely random bloke called Andy Townsend who looks nothing like him whatsoever.

And so I went straight back to this chap and went, come on, mate.

You've got to do more research than this.

You can't just assume.

It literally took me 30 seconds from you sending it to me to go, that can't be right.

And then, no, of course it isn't right.

Imagine Andy Townsend just being a comedy agent on the side.

Representing the foo filers.

Ridiculous lack of due diligence from Guion here.

I let him know the truth about this, and he went, oh, well, I'm going to have to go and apologize to the 71 people I've already told.

Oh, dear.

Yeah, he's ripe for an online scam, Guion Sampson.

But thanks for sending it in.

Finally, for part one, we go yet again.

This came from Mabroski and Liam.

Here is bemasked wrestling commentator Excalibur.

Well, great integrity shown by Brian Danielson, but I have to ask.

What did you tell Darby?

That's not, I'm not going to say.

You know, that's between me and Darby.

So, listen, fair play.

Wow.

Wow.

It was abundantly obvious, Dave, that as soon as he uttered that phrase, Americans don't use that phrase.

I think that's the best one by far.

That's really good.

It actually works in the context of what he's talking about, sort of.

It's not completely shoehorned in.

Great.

It's great stuff.

It's good delivery.

Yeah.

Love it.

Dave, is that Daniel Bryan who he was talking to?

Yeah, exactly.

He's quite a big, big wrestling name.

Wow.

But Charlie, we're at a tipping point with this now.

I think at this point, it's either stop it, Excalibur, or he has to start taking direct requests from us.

And I think this is the only way we can sustain this if we actually just make him say certain phrases.

So, Excalibur, if you're listening, and we know you are, I want you to shoehorn into the next available broadcast.

Is Wrestler X going to have a crack?

He is, you know.

Oh, I say.

It's perfect.

A bit of Barry Davis on AEW would be fantastic.

I'd love an exclamation to get sick of the sight of them as well.

He must be sick of the sight of him getting pinned by this wrestler.

Yeah, okay, lovely pins in three bouts.

Yeah, the gauntlet has been laid down.

Right, Middlesbrough versus West Brom on Friday night, pure Friday night EFL fair.

This in the 90th minute, commentators Daniel Mann and Don Goodman caught unawares.

Southampton stoker fly and portsmouth away

And the ball has flown into the net.

Well, while we're discussing what was coming up, Middlesbrough

have been pegged back a bit.

Hegebert at last getting his first league goal for West Bromwich Albion.

I don't want to go all Roy keen about this, Charlie, but it's kind of your job.

to know that the ball's gone in the net.

5.88 seconds it took them to realise.

It's like sometimes you do just feel like when things have got so comfortable and competitors are talking, it's like, oh, they're just sort of an unwritten rule.

Like, a goal won't be scored here.

It's fine.

It's too, the conversation's too meandering and relaxed.

And they, yeah, they're just like, oh, shit, a goal actually has been scored

while we're in this mode.

I think the game

was in real petering out.

Petering out.

And they were obviously, so Middlesbrough were winning 2-0, top of the league.

They're looking at the next six fixtures.

But then, and the goal itself, it was like a long-range kind of pot shot that just ended up going in wasn't it i was thinking someone nodded it in that's a header flailing goalkeeper yeah header um it quickly taken set piece as well um but yeah you switch off at this level dave you're gonna get punished but yeah daniel man don good man right next up this came from pauly29 on reddit uh a reddit post entitled the aesthetics of modern football dave when you watch football from the decades of the 20th century there is a clear difference in the aesthetics of each decade probably due to kits quality of picture hairstyles etc it's got me wondering as the presentation of football has become more homogenized over the recent decades, what is the oldest match footage you could feasibly show someone and convince them it's the modern day?

I guess presuming they know nothing about football, so wouldn't recognize the players.

So, on that basis, like how far back could you claim that it's modern football?

Like, televisually, I'm guessing, is the criteria here, really?

Well, you definitely need to be in the HD era, so you can't have anything pre-HD.

How back

when was HD HD early mid-noughties wasn't it?

Yeah, well actually I mean the 2002 World Cup this is amazing like um there are full-length games from the 2002 World Cup hidden away on YouTube somewhere and it's in the most HD I've ever seen like it's the raw remastered like I don't think it is I think they just used incredibly good cameras back then I've never seen the footage like it especially from that era so you could go back as far as 2002 Space Age World Cup of Japan and South Korea well I was gonna say I mean like the 2006 World Cup I do remember even at the time, and if you look at it back, it does have that sort of like quite FIFA, corporate, sheeny vibe to it.

Like,

it just looks quite proper and modern day.

I don't think you could, some of them, I don't think you could tell, it doesn't feel massively long ago at all.

That's a good shout.

I think broadcasting technology aside, Dave, 2006 is the...

is the kickoff point for all World Cups basically looking exactly the same.

Yeah, I remember you did a great piece on this, didn't you?

A few years ago.

I did a great piece on it, yeah.

Yeah.

And I think tournaments are better for this question because basically

the sponsors for the tournaments are just always the big brands that kind of span the eras.

Whereas a club match, if you saw a club match from 2006, I think there would be some random sponsors.

Are we going for this as the cut-off point then?

So, Charlie,

you're going back 19 years, and to show someone who doesn't know anything about football and you could claim that it's a recent game, I think, just about get away with it.

I think this is a good shout.

Yeah, I think so.

I'm just looking now at the 2002 World Cup and seeing how different it looks.

But instinctively, like, yeah, if I think back to, you know, like Senna Ghoul tearing up that World Cup, that in my mind anyway feels.

It's not a million miles away from modern football, though.

So, I mean, the kits, the kits, we sort of cycle back to slightly baggier kits now.

But yeah, I mean, that's the thing.

Are we including those sort of aesthetics?

Because that was sort of a slight hangover from the 90s where we had the baggy kits and stuff.

We need some low socks, don't we, in our 2006 game to make it properly convincing?

But having said that, I think there's a clip that often does the rounds, Charlie, of I think it's Arsenal Chelsea in the Champions League 2004.

And

it's designed to say, like, football was rubbish back then.

It's basically for younger viewers saying football was rubbish back in the early 2000s.

And it is a you know a scrappy passage of play.

And you do watch some Premier League games from the early 2000s, and it is really scrappy.

And it scrappy, not in the not in the sort of changing of possession sense, but the way that football has moved back then, like it's moved on so much in twenty years absolutely they are so much leaner and quicker and more flexible, everything.

I'm obsessed with this.

I think I've mentioned it a few times on the on the pod over the years.

Just the technical and the the physical and the technical ability of players now is just on a different level.

And I don't you know, I don't we don't need to get into like who's better and all that shit, but just on a pure aesthetic level.

Watch a game.

Any of the top teams from mid-naughties to now, it looks just looks so different.

The rhythm of it looks different like you say the body shapes just it's just it's just really different it makes me worry though charlie in a bigger picture sense it makes me worry how close are we collectively to perfecting football like we talk about that difference in the last 20 years do you think it's going to be any much that much better in the next next 20 years like how we we cannot assume that footballers are going to become more physical specimens in the next 20 years like how much can we squeeze out of a human being now in the next 20 years how much can we squeeze out of a human being now?

Well, I guess it's interesting to think what the difference is because that's from about 20 years ago.

That I know the footage you mean.

I think it's from a league game because I think it's when Rominio's taken over.

Yeah.

And yeah, I think it's a night, I think it's a Super Sunday.

But yeah, it's nighttime because it's a December one.

But there, yeah, there's a passage where they're just like headering it and then headering it back.

I mean, it looks like head tennis.

Yeah, it looks like Sunday league kind of stuff.

But if you compare that with 20 years previous, there's probably, I don't know, there's probably been a similar level of improvement from, I don't know, so what would that be?

84 to 04, 04 to 2024.

What's it going to be like in 2050?

Linesman on hoverboards.

Has to be hoverboards, isn't it?

The hoverboard dream is never going to go away, is it?

Robot players.

He can't keep up with Blake.

Give him a hoverboard.

Maybe help.

It's a joke.

All right.

Oh, brilliant.

Enjoyed that.

Right.

Back to the bread and butter.

Charlie MIW writes in and says, on TNT, the commentary referred to Atletico Madrid in the Champions League as the Spaniards against Liverpool.

Is nationalising allowed in club football?

Most of the team aren't even Spanish.

Is there a less Spanish team than Simeones Atleti?

You wouldn't catch them playing tiki-taker.

Which clubs most suit their national associations?

I have kind of picked up on this before.

Yeah.

You know, the Italians, the Germans.

How do you feel about that being used for

a club from that league?

It is a bit odd.

Yeah, I mean, sometimes it can feel appropriate if they have a kind of core, if sort of the core of the team is Italian or German or something like that.

But I would be wary of using it.

Yeah, definitely.

Meanwhile, Dave, at St.

James's Park, Barcelona impressing against Newcastle, Rafinha in particular.

Come down there with a nice clip, and that's a brilliant first touch by Rafinha.

Learned that one on the Copacabana.

Dave Cotton writes in, Dave, says, in the second half of the Newcastle-Barcelona game the other night, the ball went down the right wing and Rafinha pulled off a tidy bit of skill.

Fett said something like, he learnt it on the copper cabana.

I put this to my friends and didn't like the generalisation because of him being Brazilian.

My friend even raised the question of whether he's even from Rio.

It turns out he's from Porto Alegre.

My other friend decided to find out how far that is from Rio.

It's a 20-hour drive.

This is roughly the same driving distance as our local pub to Wrocław in Poland.

You've got to do your research on the birthplaces of Brazilian footfoot footballers before you start chucking copper cabbana around, haven't you?

This is great.

I really like this.

But then then do you?

I mean, like for people like us, you do, but there'll probably be a lot of people who'd listen to that and would be like, yeah, like, good one.

Like, that would sort of go down quite well with, you know, a lot of the football watching audience.

Like, it's so throwaway.

It's just sort of accepted as being like

copper cabana.

I mean, I guess we can't know for sure, Dave, that Rafinha's never been there.

So, I mean, well, he picked up his first touch there.

To hone his skills as a youngster.

I was reading this on the Reddit last week, and there was a guy who posted something saying, Well, actually, there is a cop of Capana Beach in Porto Alegre.

So maybe the lecture was referring to that, but I'd just gone back on to check who sent it and they've deleted it.

So maybe they were talking shit.

Oh, dear.

On a co-book of that.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree.

I can, I sympathize with that getting chucked out.

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David Morgan writes in Next Channel and he says, I've been thinking about what constitutes an all-conquering team and who the all in that phrase refers to.

To be an all-conquering team, can you you just win the league?

Do you need to win a treble, a league title and European trophy for the competition you're in?

Or does it need to be the Champions League?

And can you get to all-conquering status in a single season?

When Manchester City won the treble, they lost to Nathan Jones's Southampton in the League Cup.

So being a literally Dave myself, I'm questioning if we can call them all-conquering.

I need your help.

What's the bar for all-conquering, Charlie?

Cities certainly were.

You don't have to win a treble to be all-conquering.

But I don't think so.

No, I mean, I was thinking as a way of clarifying this in my mind, like, next week, how strange would it seem if on match the day it was and Crystal Palace?

Well, come on, a slot's all-conquering Liverpool team to Selhurst Park.

Would that be mad?

No, you can't have that.

That's too far, right?

So, you need to have done more than just win a league.

Five games.

But, I mean, obviously, it's based on the fact they won the league last season.

They're the champions.

They're on a roll.

They've won all their games this season.

So, somewhere between that and a treble.

Yeah, there needs to be some distance to it, I think.

I think, because I think you often hear this said in a sort sort of slightly historical context, when you go, you think back to the, you know, the all-conquering Liverpool side of the 70s.

And that suggests multiple seasons of conquering.

So

that's a good sort of benchmark to include here as well.

But Charlotte, I think you're stumbling across the right answer here.

You can't be all-conquering if you've just won the league.

It can't be a domestic-only sense.

You have to have done something in Europe.

I think you have to have won the Champions League and your title across a couple of seasons at least and probably retained one of those things to be all-conquering.

I don't know if you have to have done it for that long a period.

I think if you've won,

if you're early on in the season off the back of winning the league and the Champions League the previous season, I think

it's a little more conquering.

Yeah, I think a single season is fine, but it does lend itself to era-defining teams, right?

Definitely.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, there you go.

So, yeah, the bar remains relatively high for all conquering.

Right,

you'll remember, you'll remember, I can't believe we're going even deeper into this.

You'll remember the correspondence we had about the guy who mapped Premier League players' initials and shirt numbers to UK postcodes and came up with a definitive list.

Someone's gone even further than that and created a map of UK postcodes to footballers' initials and shirt numbers so you can find your nearest footballer in terms of postcodes and shirt numbers.

But then I got this email.

It's from Matt Berger.

Sorry to be that guy, but I'm not sure that Keper is the player whose shirt name and number postcode is furthest from the actual postcode.

By my calculations, KA13, the center of, to N77AJ, is 339 miles as the crow flies.

From KA20 to TWAORU, the G-Tech, it's one mile longer for Christopher Ayer.

But if that's too tight, ML5 to SE256PU is 348 miles for Maxine Lacroix.

While the longest of all, and maybe he hadn't been signed when your last contributor calculated this, brilliant, is Pierre Hincapier with PH5 to N77AJ clocking in at 362 miles.

I'm sure someone else might find one further.

Nope.

No one else could be asked.

Matt Verger.

So that's it.

Pierre Hincapier, Charlie, is the Premier League record holder for his postcode as constructed by his initials and shirt number from the actual postcode of the Emirate Stadium.

How does that sound?

Imagine how does that sound in that to Pierre Hinca.

Evolved to get hold of this.

Fair next stats back.

Just last one from me.

It's a shame Arnie Slot doesn't have a squad number.

You can't do it with him.

Oh, dear.

Yeah, I don't want any more correspondence about postcodes no more right finally from aunt neil question for this week's podcast who is most comparable to jimmy floyd hasselbank in today's game my wife asked me during strictly and i've asked friends and we can't really think of anyone so who is the equivalent of jimmy floyd hasselbank in 2025 charlie it's a really good question because even at the time he slightly stood apart i feel like there weren't many guys who you know his whole thing like having such a hard shot and uh shifting it and shooting yeah just sort of shifting and banging i mean i guess like I was thinking in that aspect, Victor Yokarez has a bit of the can just absolutely leather a ball.

He hit the bar against Forrest last week.

That has to be

a channels runner, was he?

So yeah, yeah, I suppose not.

But in that aspect, otherwise...

I don't know.

I can't think of any.

John Duran.

Maybe.

John Duran, that's an interesting one.

I'm just thinking of someone who's whacked one in.

Yeah, because he's not foxing the box, is he, Duran?

And he's not really a runner with the ball.

I think that's a good shout.

Yeah, that is a good shout, because his best aspect, his best skill is his shooting, which sounds kind of obvious, but yeah, often strikers, their best asset is their movement or their pace or something like that.

If you were being really uncharitable and unappreciative of his wider repertoire, you could say there's hints of Harry Kane.

Or there's hints of Hasselbank in Harry Kane in the sense that he wants to get the ball out of his feet and hit it as hard and as technically

as possible.

The older Harry Kane, I mean, sorry, the younger Harry Kane, Harry Kane back in the day before he'd evolved into this kind of now like all-round player.

To go back to the Duran comparison, Hasselbank leaving Leeds and going to Atletico,

if Hasselbank was around today, I could see him maybe like getting a bit annoyed that Leeds didn't pay him what he wanted to be paid and he'd go to Saudi for a year.

Yeah, very possibly.

Yeah.

Yeah, but y you're right, Charlie.

He was unique at the time, so it makes it even harder to find the equation now.

But yeah, yeah, not many players who just smash it these days.

Really.

Speaking of which,

it's time for Keys and Grey Corner.

What a return to form.

And that wasn't planned.

Right.

First one comes from Yamiello, who said, I heard from someone the other day that Richard Keyes was once on the books at Coventry as a goalkeeper.

Is anyone able to confirm?

I've heard occasional whispers, Charlie, that Keysy was a kind of youth product of his beloved Coventry, but certainly not as a keeper.

He is the least goalkeepery human there is, right?

Yeah, I mean, we've seen him play as an outfielder in that charity game.

I mean, I guess it's possible he was a kind of lapsed keeper, but

he looked like he knew what he was doing.

He's 5'9, max.

I actually, do you know what, Dave?

I've got no comprehension of how tall Richard Keyes is.

I couldn't even.

I don't know.

He's not a tall man, is he?

He's not tall.

He's not someone that you look at and think, oh, wow, you're taller than I think.

He's just, he is as tall as you think he should be.

That is average height.

Yeah.

But it does turn out there was a Richard Key who was born almost exactly one year before Richard Keyes.

And he started out at Coventry as a goalkeeper in the 70s, as a youth killer.

His younger brother, Lance, was at Sheffield Wednesday.

People might be slightly more familiar with him.

Lance Key.

Lance Key.

Richard Key's Wikipedia page.

Under personal life, very perfunctory.

Keys, Key, lives in Freshwater, Isle of Wight.

So next up on the holiday there, I'll go and tap him up.

Beautiful little island.

Right, over to the Be in studios.

Here's Richard Keyes and Jason McAteer discussing Florian Vietz's emission from Liverpool's line-up for the Merseyside Derby.

Charlie, quick quiz for you.

Which double-barreled term did Keese use to describe the physicality of the Premier League?

Hurley Burley.

Does that mean he doesn't have the tools that are required to play in the Hurley Burley of the Premier League?

Yeah.

If you had to pick one person in the world to be the last person to use the phrase Hurley Burley, I think Keese's right up there.

Hurley Burley is.

I love how Hurley Belly is rolled out for the Premier League, Charlie.

Hurley Burley.

Can he handle that?

Yeah, in the English language has a similar place to like hanky panky.

It's just like a sort of who is still using that in 2023.

Probably Keesey.

Yeah, Richard Keys, yeah.

Bit of rumpy-pumpy, was it, Andy?

God's sake.

Next up, here is Keesy

setting the scene for soccer Sunday.

For later at City and Arsenal, unusually, strangely, they met at the Etihad exactly a year ago this weekend, and it all got a little bit feisty, if you remember.

We enjoyed that.

Is it right to hope that it happens again today?

Yeah, it is.

Dave Jones could never, he's just not allowed to do this stuff.

Absolutely right.

It wouldn't happen.

Brilliant delivery from Kesey.

Great stuff.

Right, finally, here is Kese, Andy Gray, and Jason McAteer on how Chelsea should deal with Raheem Sterling's contract.

Genuinely, no one I'd rather hear on this topic.

Or, well, they're standing by it.

Pay him up.

They're standing by it.

Well, there's a manner in which you're.

Technically, they are.

There's a manner in which you stand up.

You know they're playing.

You know they're not.

I'm plain devil's advocate.

I get right.

You know they're not.

Well, technically, they are.

It's like just somebody saying to you, tell you what, Andy, you've been great for the time you've been with us, but we're not really fancy you might come to work at midnight.

Not a problem with me.

I'd be here.

That does happen.

No worries.

I'd be here.

That does happen.

Yeah.

No, you know what I'm saying.

If you've got a deal.

I love the idea of Andy Gray being in the B in Sports bomb squads, Dave.

Being forced to come in and do do his punditry prep at midnight so he's away from everybody else.

You're

covering the Qatari League.

I honestly think he's so checked out that if he was told to come at midnight, he wouldn't really think that much of it.

He'd just sort of come in and still do a pretty good job kind of talking to no one.

Yep.

That's tapes.

Get his tapes.

Yep.

Not bad.

Not bad.

Like wouldn't noticing that it's not being filmed or anything.

Yeah.

Key.

Jamie, we want you to come in at midnight next week, if that's okay.

Why?

Why?

Right, that's brilliant.

Thanks to you, Charlie Equisher.

Thank you.

Thanks to you, Dave Walker.

Thank you.

Thanks to everyone for listening.

We'll be back on Thursday for the listeners, Meset Harland, Dicks.

See you then.

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.

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