The last corner flag, acres of experience & Christianity's classy touches

No one should have to choose between their own safety and their pets, but nearly half of domestic abuse survivors delay leaving because they can't bring their pets with them.

Purina is helping to create more pet-friendly domestic violence shelters through the Purple Leash project, so survivors and their pets can escape and heal together.

Visit purina.com/slash purple to learn more.

This episode is brought to you by Nature's Bounty.

Nature's Bounty believes your body is brilliant, naturally designed to thrive inside and out.

For those always looking for new ways to support your health from head to heels, Nature's Bounty has a range of over 400 vitamins and supplements born from 50 years of trust and care.

Nature's Bounty, it's in your nature.

Visit naturesbounty.com to learn more.

Walmart Business is in the business of saving you time, money, and hassle.

Whether your business started in a garage or is a garage, Walmart Business has the tools to help you get where you're going.

Tools like free shipping, multi-user accounts, and just about any item your company needs.

Even a double filtration cyclone dust collector.

Yep, even that.

Sweet.

Walmart Business.

It's the Walmart you love.

Now for your business.

Learn more at business.walmart.com.

Terms apply.

I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like.

Is Gas going to have a crack?

He is, you know.

Oh, he failed.

Brilliant.

But jeez!

He's round the goalkeeper.

He's done it!

Absolutely incredible!

He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was

without a shadow of a doubt giving him lip.

Oh, I say,

it's amazing.

He does it tame and tame and tame again.

Break up the music.

Charge a glass.

This nation is going to dance all night.

Fletch holds his hands up about Brazilian beaches.

Graham Potter spares Nuno a stilted appearance on Monday night football.

The last sacked Premier League manager to get a corner flag in the club statement.

The official new unit of measurement for experience.

Mick McCarthy breaks America.

Classy touches from rival Christian denominations.

Football speak in A-level history coursework.

Antiques Roadshow loses its football credibility.

And Andy Gray versus Football Metrics.

Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts.

This is Football Clichés.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Football Clichés.

I'm Adam Hurry.

This is the adjudication panel.

Joining me first of all is Charlie Eccleshare.

How are you doing?

Very well, thank you.

Great news for you.

News reaches me that the match of the day 2 Saturday wrap-up was all from the main camera by the time the goal goes in, I'm told.

So that's good news for you.

Your feedback has been heard at the highest echelons of the BBC.

Yeah, I watched it, enjoyed it.

I mean, yeah, it's still, as you say, camera one by the time the goal goes in.

So they're still a bit of, you know, jazzy camera angles before.

But yeah, I feel a bit like a pundit or a manager when a decision that's wrong gets corrected by VAR.

You know, I'm happy that we've got there, but it shouldn't need a niche football podcast to call it out for this sort of thing.

Like, just get it right in the first place.

You know, it's just, this is where we are now.

If you can't decide within two production meetings, just don't change it.

Don't change it.

That's it.

I guess we've just got to be relieved we got there in the end.

We reached the right decision.

Alongside you on the adjudication panel, he too is finally back home from Newcastle.

What a quiz that was, by the way, David Walker.

Yes, great night up in Newcastle.

A very enjoyable quiz.

A great crowd, great drinks after the show.

It all went very well.

Apart from some very, very slight, mild controversy over who came second, which may well have been our fault.

But the winner, the winning team won at such a distance.

And also, they themselves came in for some criticism from the crowd.

But I have faith that they won that quiz honourably.

Yeah, I shouldn't be reading a Twitter thread at 2 a.m.

about potential googling by opposition teams and then them firing back with, it's really dark in there.

You would have seen if we had our phones out.

Just incredible.

Arguing still going on in in the wee hours after the quiz.

But other than that, a superb quiz.

Really enjoyed it.

Plenty of prizes given out, including the Nord VPN trophy and a few copies of Extra Time Beckons Penalties Loom.

Speaking of which, I got an email this weekend from what looked like an expert book marketer, Charlie,

claiming to help me get the book out there.

And it was an email from an individual allegedly called David Peter.

And the headline was, Amplifying Your Book's Reach with Expert Marketing.

And it took me about three seconds of reading this email to realize it was AI slop.

Here it goes.

Dear Adam, your upcoming book, Extra Time Beckon's Penalties Loom, is already shaping up to be a standout contribution to football literature.

Okay.

By focusing on the crucible of extra time and penalties, the most unforgiving stage in football, you captured a theme that resonates with every fan who has lived through those nail-biting moments.

Whether it's the heartbreak of Miss Penalties or the exhilaration of sudden death glory, your book speaks directly to the drama, psychology, and storytelling power that makes football more than just a game.

What if I had written a book about just that?

That's brilliant.

Your your um look at the beautiful game is really a is really a real AI buster because they would have that that is a you know that that would kind of make sense uh if you saw that.

So yeah, good on you.

Keeping us in jobs.

There are more literally Daves out there, Dave, just taking my book title too literally and then try to help me market it in a completely incorrect way.

And but yet another reason for me to be worried about AI.

Yeah, it's gonna get us all in the end.

Yeah, speaking of cliché's clichés, live events, it is, well, less than a week now until clichés live kicks off in earnest, in anger, at Comedia in Brighton on Monday the 6th of October.

There may be a slightly irregular clichés pod schedule as October unravels, I think it's fair to say, Dave, but we will deliver, won't we?

Big time.

Go to tickets.football clichés.com and join us on tour.

Right, adjudication panel time, only one place to start.

Brentford vs.

Manchester United on TNT Sports.

And Darren Fletcher uses an overhit Brian and Burmo cross as an opportunity to reflect on something from last week.

Just going back to that Cunha

Robona, there was a Brazilian Twair that did something when I was commentating the other night and I made the statement he probably learned that on the Copacabana and then somebody pointed out that he was born, the player that I was talking about, was born a few hours away from the Copacabana by plane.

So certainly didn't learn it on the Copacabana.

Hence why I didn't mention that because I'm not quite sure which part of Brazil Lattez Cunha is from.

So if you were the person that pointed that out, he's definitely in my head today.

Cheers for that.

Yeah.

Ah, the tentacles of this podcast, Charlie, grow even longer.

Listener, Dave Cotton from last week, what have you done?

Yeah, I mean, he takes it.

He takes it well, to be fair, in the right spirit.

But it is funny that he can't, he's not been put off enough to point out that he would, he wishes he could have used it.

Like he still, that was still the instinct.

You know, see a Brazilian player do something a little flashy, your mind does, or his mind does, just go to the Copacabana.

It's the only spirit to take it in, Dave, isn't it?

This is what we want to encourage.

A friendly back and forth between us and the mouthpieces of football.

Yeah, I mean, what was interesting as well with Fletch there, whilst, yeah, he did take it a bit better, as you say, Charlie, than I thought he might do when I first heard about it.

Why wasn't he sort of mentioning specifically who he'd mentioned?

It was weird though.

Yeah.

Look who was doing much more.

He could say the feedback.

Or he didn't have the rights to it.

He didn't even mention the Champions League, which is unlikely.

It really sounded like it was for another channel or something.

And then I would have understood it.

In that way, there's this old murder where you can't talk about football on another broadcaster.

But yeah,

that was really strange.

I don't have the rights to mention Rafinha on a Premier League game.

He's worried someone's going to go and watch it back on catch-up to see it

in real time.

But no, it's okay.

Incidentally, Mattheas Cunha was born in João Pessoa, a port city in northeastern Brazil.

Right.

So that's a good old trek as well, isn't it?

Yeah, I think so.

I mean, the roller coaster of this story, because someone got in touch to say that there is a Copacabana beach where Rafinha was born.

I looked it up, it's now permanently closed.

It was a little sort of urban, sort of artificial beach resort, but it doesn't exist.

So there's no avenues left for Fletch on that one.

Right, the big Premier League news of the weekend day was Graham Potter sacked by West Ham within 24 hours of facing those inevitable ludicrous questions about face swapping.

Can we just revisit that moment?

Again, took it in better humour than I expected.

Yeah, well, it made my 15-year-old son laugh a lot.

So

as I said, you have to accept what comes with it, which is part of criticism.

It's at times ridicule.

But

that's just the environment we're in, and it is what it is.

I'm so glad this got the it is what it is treatment, Dave.

I mean, it's very much an is what it is candidate, isn't it?

Yeah, although does that reaction somehow sort of hint at one of the issues with Graham Potter?

Is that a better manager would give that short shrift.

Why are you being nice here?

It's good that you're nice, but also just Christ.

Like, I think the people think they can get away with this stuff with you.

Give them an inch, they'll take a mile, John.

I mean, I mean, probably being quite sort of, you know, respectful to the to the journalist who felt compelled to ask the question, presumably from directives from higher-ups.

But the overall vibe I got from this line of questioning, especially in the context of him being sacked within 24 hours of it happening, there's just nothing unspoken in football anymore.

Does this need to be asked?

Does it really feed into his narrative arc in any way?

I think it probably does.

I mean, it was a talking point.

People probably do want to hear, like, what else, especially for a manager who famously, his press conferences are really boring, especially the pre-match ones.

I'm sure if you were covering West Ham, you would be like, oh my God, finally something I can actually ask him about that he has, because he has to engage.

Either way, you get a, you know, Graham Potter responds angrily to questions about face swap, or he does engage and it's like, oh, well, that's quite nice.

And like, it just was a talking point.

So I think it's fair to ask him.

Okay, I accept that.

Potter out, Nuno Espirito Santo in, Dave.

Fair play to West Ham here because this must have been an irresistible option because it's about as good a template for this situation as possible for them.

A manager who briefly but notably overperformed at a similarly sized club was perceived to have been treated a bit shabbily, left for ostensibly non-footballing reasons and is now available immediately to pick up where he left off.

West Ham have basically been handed this on a plate.

Like all the consensus is a great appointment, but it's like it's the only appointment.

Yeah, I'm quite annoyed by it actually.

They've been able to appoint Nuno here.

through no real

foresight or skill.

Yeah, exactly.

Whereas there were some reports that they had spoken to slavin billich yeah which i really wanted that to happen yeah that would have been amazing i mean it does show as well and this is getting a bit actual football analysis but like when new was appointed forest manager everyone forest fans were largely up in arms because his previous he'd been bad in his previous role he was defensive boring you have one good stint and then you're you're so what are you so for potter you've just got if you're him you've just got hope you know i'm just one good period away and then i'm in the new no role of being the like the savior of basically any I mean any bottom half club and maybe even a bit higher Nuno would have been the first guy they'd have wanted really for the reasons you've just said and especially the fact that he it was perfect because he he got sacked in a really harsh way yes you know so it's not like his stock had fallen it was just he was a victim of politics yeah the trajectory of their respective stocks Dave is quite interesting to me because Potter did the Monday night football appearance

was a little bit reticent but came across as someone quite clearly in demand and he he you you know he had some options open to him and he was quite coy about where he was going to go next so and he was quite enjoying that side of things Nuno hasn't even had to do the Monday Night Football thing which I imagine it's a massive relief to him because I don't think he'd be a massive talker on my MNF no I don't think he I don't think he would the Potter thing is interesting because you know I I sort of feel like there was there was a feeling that even though West Ham generally chaotic sort of backdrop was there you thought Potter would do better at West Ham I think people thought that this would be the club where he puts the Chelsea debacle behind him.

And he just didn't.

Emphatically didn't.

Now you're thinking,

where does he pop up next?

Can you do a second Monday night football thing?

Unprecedented.

I need to go straight back again.

On this Monday, it was pointed out to me, Gary O'Neill was apparently on Saturday night football.

I mean, that's where, I mean, that's not...

That's a step back, isn't it?

That's a commitment to being a pundit.

Yeah.

Exactly.

That's not a special guest, is it?

Yeah.

That felt quite significant.

Andy Reid's here as well, Gary.

Is that okay?

What, you're going to ask him about what his next job is?

No.

I thought it was just going to be me, because I went to...

More importantly, Elliot Stockdale asks Dave after West Ham released their statement about Graham Potter, is the corner flag trope just finished now?

I can't remember the last time a club used it.

Maybe one to discuss on the pod.

Well, I've done my research here, Dave.

I didn't actually have to go that far, surprisingly.

I can confirm we're currently on a run of seven Premier League managerial departures.

That's sackings, mutual consent, resignations, and this also includes relegated clubs as well, since a corner flag was used to announce a manager's departure.

That was Sean Deish at Everton in January 2025, which I think is quite fitting.

You can imagine Deish insisting on getting the corner flag.

I don't want the facade of the stadium.

I don't want a picture of my face.

I want corner flag.

I think you're going to have to listen to his new podcast to try and hone that impression of it, aren't you?

Have I gone to East Midlands?

Yeah, a little bit.

Yeah, it was quite, yeah.

Yeah, I was having a look at Watford's

relatively recent sacking, seeing whether we went for a corner flag.

Because when we were losing at half-time on Saturday, I noticed a few people saying it's time for the corner flag, guys.

But we haven't gone for a corner flag for a little while now.

So maybe it has been phased out.

Maybe it became too much of

a meme.

That's very possibly the case, Charlie.

It must be a case that comms teams, when they're putting this stuff together, just think, should we just go for the front of the stadium now now or a view wide angle view of the pitch because the corner flags it's a bit loaded now like it is a bit knowing like it might seem like they're taking the piss out of themselves yeah i think it's it's definitely possible should combat that by like using the corner flags for like more mundane things so an update about the community program or you know something

with the corner flag

some fans hearts must skip a beat when they see a corner flag even still and speaking of the nuances of uh football communication during the astonville fulham game Matty Cash was deeped not to have handled a goal-bound shot because his arm was sort of dangled behind him, so he could possibly have known it was there.

The Premier League match centre Charlie tweeted out their official adjudication on this.

The referee's call of no penalty was checked and confirmed by VAR, with the action from Cash deemed not to be a handball offence, with the arm in a justifiable position.

Is this a new word in handball?

Yeah, that does sound like a new thing.

I feel like it works better than unnatural position, because

justifiable opens up a a whole new can of words.

Yeah, I mean, it does a bit.

It does.

Like, can you justify?

I'm not sure you can justify it.

I think you can justify that.

It was just, I mean, it feels quite subjective.

Yeah.

Getting the plausible deniability to handball situations, it doesn't feel like that's the way to go, does it, really?

Well, unnatural didn't really do the job that people thought it did, Dave, because, I mean, it's a very big picture thing to apply to that sort of situation.

What is a natural position?

But a justifiable position for a hand that I think covers a few bases that were left unchecked before.

So in this situation, Matty Cash was attempting to block a shot side on and one of his arms extended backwards in the motion of doing it.

So then you could argue that previously that was unnatural because it was away from his body, which was a ludicrous definition.

And now it becomes justifiable.

So justifiable is basically natural plus could happen.

It's perfectly plausible that it could happen.

And those two things come together.

I think we might see an improvement in things.

I guess so, maybe, Yeah, I don't think the natural and unnatural thing really worked either.

Um, endlessly picked apart, which is the that's the problem.

I think Jonathan Wilson wrote a piece about this today.

It's just the endless scrutiny that the law just cannot bear.

Yeah, and yeah, that's it.

Yeah, yeah, that's what I've said before.

Like, hand balls basically functioned for like 100 years.

On you kind of know one when you see one.

Like, it was always this really hard thing to define, and we just about got by with it.

Like, it just, there's there are so many grey areas and inconsistencies.

Because, like, 99.9% of handballs, Charlie, are undeliberate anyway.

Like, that's the only thing that's not.

That's the thing.

Exactly.

Yeah, that's it, which is always such a fallacy as well.

Yeah, about like the intent and stuff.

Oh, well, good to get stuck into the laws of the game.

Yeah.

Next up, this came from Jack Copper of listenfairplay.com.

Fame.

Here's John Champion leaving a very entry-level gag by Graham Lasseau hanging in the St.

James's Park Air on Sunday.

If you Newcastle supporters, if you get to get their tongues fully around his surname, they keep calling him Baldemore's.

So far, he's more of a hero than a villain.

Dave, it felt like a lifetime.

John Champion's really good at this now.

I think he's the number one of the art form.

I'm just going to let you think about what you've done here, Graham.

There's a rare twist on this one, Charlie.

Normally, the commentator completely ignores it and then goes for the silence.

This one, this one got a sound that I can

vaguely remember from the office.

And when I think it's it's Gareth makes a joke too far and Brent goes, oh

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's that, yeah.

I need to know what scene that's from.

I consulted the office expert Darren Richmond.

He couldn't find the correct scene.

So it's up to someone out there to find the sound I'm thinking of.

But it was kind of like, oh, so no, I can't do that.

Is that not in the get out?

I mean it get out.

Yes.

Yes.

Oh, maybe.

But no, because he doesn't send Gareth out.

But I think it is that I think it might be that scene because they're all making sort of bawdy jokes and it's like I'd like to escape up her tunnel.

Get out.

I mean it get out.

And I think earlier.

I think earlier Gareth has made one and there's all right.

God.

Anyway,

great analysis there.

Right, this next one comes from Murray Burts.

He says, I was catching up on BBC Norfolk's The Scrimmage, which is Norwich City's dedicated fanzine radio show.

And part of the preview ahead of the Stoke game involved a Stoke City fan joining the show to provide some insight into the opposition.

In my personal opinion, the last few years the main problem for Stoke has been the defensive side of things and this season there isn't that.

You look at our back line, you've got Aaron Cresswell, acres of Premier League experience.

You've got Ashley Phillips, Boeson Law, Ben Wilmot.

Dave, I love acres of experience.

It's weirdly brilliant.

I think it should be now the official unit of measurement for experience.

Acres of experience, like because it implies that it implies that the experience is kind of sprawling out, spreading itself out to be admired, basking in the sunlight you've worked your whole career you've got a massive property with loads of land it does work nicely what is the incumbent unit of measurement for experience charlie is it bags bags of experience bags of experience yeah i think so that doesn't feel grandiose enough doesn't feel like it has enough gravitas to it no bags bags of experience because yeah acres of experience charlie implies a legacy doesn't it like as dave says kind of here is what i have built you yeah you might go more route one if it was a manager and you're talking, you just go with a unit of time and be like, he's got decades' worth of experience at the top level or something like that, or even years' worth.

Acres of experience.

Incredible use of acres there.

Next up, a footballer's name's in things.

It comes from a content aardvark on Reddit.

This is Craig Charles with Karis Matthews.

Craig Charles, this is brilliant.

Thanks for bringing it in.

Yeah, thank you.

It's June, isn't it?

It's absolutely fantastic.

Next week, though, it also looks brilliant.

You've got Richard Hawley coming in on Tuesday.

No, we haven't.

Haven't you?

Tuesday the first.

Tuesday, we've got Brad Friedel and John Hegley.

What's Brad Friedel doing on six music?

What are you in here to talk about, Brad?

I can't imagine Brad Friedel being a sort of like lapsed DJ or something, you know, one of those like veteran DJs who sort of in in his younger years was was quite big in Ibiza.

Or maybe someone that's like turned to DJing, like like um like Steven Davis has.

Yeah, Jamie Lescott as well.

Yeah, you know, just the sort of cute, oh, he actually likes DJing sort of thing.

Loves his DJing?

Proper like house DJ.

Got into it when he was at Galatassarai and it just picked it back up again.

But I think I can see what's happened here, Dave, because it's presumably to promote the Terminator Live, a screening of the 1984 sci-fi classic with a live orchestra playing the soundtrack as composed by Brad Fiedel.

Oh.

Yeah, he did the soundtrack to both Terminator, the first two Terminator films.

It's spelt almost exactly the same.

But yeah,

there's Steve Sidwell as well.

He's a sort of TV film music composer out there, Charlie.

We could make a whole Barclay Zero team out of this lot.

Clearly a lot of overlap, yeah.

Yeah.

Brad Friedel.

Yeah, Craig Giles is a Liverpool fan.

So you can see how doubly how that may have happened.

So but you never know.

Maybe it is Brad Friedel with his weird little accent coming on BBC Radio 6 music.

Next up, this came from Steve Bryant.

Here is Kevin Clark on the Mina Kimes Show, an NFL podcast.

Have you seen the It Can't Get Worse in This TikTok meme from soccer?

Okay, I need to explain this.

This is one of the funniest things in my life.

And it's huge in Europe, and it bleeds over to American TikTok, sports TikTok.

There's this manager named Mick McCarthy, and he's been around the block, and he's like a John Fox type.

He's like kind of a classic retread.

Okay.

And there's a question in a press conference where this guy goes, Mick, three points in 15 games.

It can't go on like this.

And Mick McCarthy just goes, it can.

It can.

It can.

And like, I think it is so deeply embedded in my cranium now.

Whenever I think things can't get worse or things can't go on like this, it can.

Charlie, I think there are now too many things out in popular culture for Mick McCarthy to be presented with and have to sigh about it.

because we listen to Saipan.

He's got a lot on his plate.

Yeah, he's just the go-to guy.

The world we live in, isn't it?

Drinko Starr again.

Why?

The world we live in.

Maybe that's what we sound like when we're sort of trying to explain things about other sports other than football that we don't know.

We always really quite understand.

Yeah, I mean, we get the gist, but we're not quite bang on.

I mean, when we mentioned bunting in baseball the other day, I expected the flood of emails I would get.

It's like, well, you didn't get it quite right.

It's like, okay, I'm not going to get into any more detail than that.

But I get the sense that this is exactly what the Chinese invented TikTok for, to make Nick McCarthy become a global reference point, whether he likes it or not.

Indeed, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Quite democratic, the meme process, isn't it?

Anyway, this episode is brought to you in association with NordVPN.

For those who don't know, VPN stands for virtual private network.

It secures your connection, protecting your personal information and online activity, especially on public Wi-Fi.

A VPN can also make your phone or laptop appear as if it's in another country, which is great for accessing content while travelling.

Indeed, over to the southern hemisphere we go next.

This is from Alby McIntosh.

He said, he thought you'd enjoy this clip from a New Zealand provincial rugby game between Bay of Plenty and Waikato.

Some great singing commentary

as this winger scores a try.

Oh my goodness, what a finish.

Incredible flourish at the end.

The melody sets it up, Charlie, and then the lovely flourish at the end.

But God knows what tune it matches.

Yeah, there was a bit earlier on, and I thought that was it.

Which made more sense in a way as you're kind of getting more excited, as you realise.

And then, but then he's, yeah, he's obviously, I'm just going to fully commit to it now.

That's rugby, of course, Dave.

But can you imagine, oh my goodness, what a finish ever happening in football.

What kind of goal could that possibly be?

Maybe Martinelli's against Manchester City.

The lob might work.

Oh my goodness.

I mean,

when you said there was going to be some singing commentary, I didn't quite expect that, to be honest.

I think that is the most ridiculous example we've had yet.

The bit at the end there, it's like it's almost, it's like someone saying, one minute, PVD in a minute.

That is the intonation, is that I'll be with you in a minute.

Anyway, if you want to try NordVPN for yourself, go to NordVPN.com slash cliches, and our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan.

It's the best discount available.

There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee, and the link is also in our podcast description if you need it.

We'll be back very shortly.

The family that vacations together stays together.

At least, that was the plan.

Except now, the dastardly desk clerk is saying he can't confirm confirm your connecting rooms.

Wait, what?

That's right, ma'am.

You have rooms 201 and 709.

No, we cannot be five floors away from our kids.

Eh, the doors have double locks, they'll be fine.

When you want connecting rooms confirmed before you arrive, it matters where you stay.

Welcome to Hilton.

I see your connecting rooms are already confirmed.

Hilton, for this day.

Finished training for the day?

Time to fight post-workout fatigue with Core Power Protein Shakes.

They're back with 26 grams of high quality protein to build muscle and electrolytes to help hydrate.

The nutrition you need to help your body replenish, rebuild, and repair post-workout so you can power on to the next one.

Champion your recovery with Core Power.

Visit corepower.com to learn more.

This episode is brought to you by Indeed.

When your computer breaks, you don't wait for it to magically start working again.

You fix the problem.

So why wait to hire the people your company desperately needs?

Use Indeed's sponsored jobs to hire top talent fast.

And even better, you only pay for results.

There's no need to wait.

Speed up your hiring with a $75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com/slash podcast.

Terms and conditions apply.

Welcome back to Football Clichés.

Dreamland episode 8 is out this week and we are going deep, Charlie, on the Champions League.

So many avenues into this for us.

We're not going to have trouble filling an hour, I suspect.

No, a sequel to the Champions League 11 that we did, what, 2021 or something like that, quite a while ago, yeah.

And that was that was great.

So, yes, we will go deep.

Yeah, looking at the Champions League, not just from a football league perspective, but a cultural one as well.

And it's a cultural behemoth the Champions League yes go to dreamland.football clichés.com and for $5.99 a month you'll get ad-free listing of all of our episodes plus two episodes a month of Dreamland our exclusive news show and other things as well right first item for the second half.

The news broke this week that Russell M.

Nelson, the oldest serving president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, aka the Mormons, died at the weekend at the age of 101.

Now on their Reddit page Charlie, Latter-day Saints posted a message saying President Nelson just passed away.

One of the comments underneath, coming on here as a Lutheran, I offer my sincere condolences.

He was truly a great man of God who elevated and inspired worldwide.

I mean, this just device.

Yeah.

Lutheran fan here, but.

Not a so-and-so, but this is

scarce.

Yeah.

I mean, I guess there is quite an option.

You do see this when, you know, there's someone who like, he brought people, they brought people together.

And even though I didn't always agree with their beliefs necessarily, and it is quite comparable to you know this opposition manager or whatever.

I, you know, there were times I despise them, but you couldn't disagree with their kind of principles or whatever.

Yeah, never, never nice to see the head of another church lose his life, but you know, this is very much, this is more of a slight variation on the theme, though, isn't it?

This is a Lutheran fan here coming in peace.

Anyway, next, a teacher writes in, Charlie, they said, marking a piece of A-level history work this week, I found this gem about Queen Elizabeth I.

For context, the question was about the extent to which her gender limited her ability to rule effectively.

And the answer, part of the answer goes, it negatively impacted her ability to rule as she had to silence the doubters in her first few years.

Very much so.

Yeah.

The boo-boo.

I mean, that would have been, you could have done a good, like, her intray would have, you know, would have had a lot of similarities to managers, you know, bringing a divided country together and

a lot of uniting that needed to happen.

Put the smiles back on their faces.

Wheeling away from that.

Bloody Mary's reign.

Hushed mouths

gesture.

But yeah, the teacher asks, Dave, should today's junior historians be taking this kind of cue from football coverage?

Don't mind it.

I think silencing the doubters isn't too flippant a phrase to use here.

Yeah, I think it works perfectly.

I suppose the only other question, Charlie, is: would Queen Elizabeth I have been a bringing back catch-up monarch or a banning catch-up monarch?

That's a good question.

I think, well, I mean, because Mary I was defined by how sort of violent and brutal she was in going after non-believers.

Absolutely.

So I think it would have been a

bringing back catch-up.

So Elizabeth I was more of an arm around the shoulder ruler.

Compared to Mary, yeah.

How have we not saved this for the live show?

This could be a whole Charlie Equichaire segment.

Bringing the rest is history for a bit of a collab.

Right, this was sent to me by Cliché's royalty, Doc Brown.

Here's Connor Cody on Five Live, ideally placed to comment on the latest spin of the managerial merry-go-round.

Obviously, Connor, with you having played under Nuno, straight away coming to you for a take on that appointment.

Brilliant appointment.

Really, really good.

I think I actually said it to me, Mrs.

a few weeks ago on the couch, if I'm being honest, that when he left Forest, I just thought it was an absolute tap-in, really, for West Ham with where West Ham were obviously struggling.

We know what football is.

Charlie, it's great that Connor Cody's sort of earnest, punditry thoughts are just being uttered at home while they're relaxing around the house.

I believe it.

I totally believe it.

That he would have raised that.

Weird thing to specify to me.

I don't know why.

Yeah, it's a bit odd.

But yeah, don't take your work home with you, Connor Cody.

You're still playing, son.

Don't worry about it.

Right, next question comes from Hen Cowan.

Gary Doherty was widely acknowledged to be a centre-forward and a centre-half.

Dion Dublin, too.

Mark Hughes and Dwight York both centre forwards who became holding midfielders.

Dan Byrne would be listed as a centre half and a left back.

How many games does someone have to play for their second position to become officially one they can play?

Harry Maguire has has come on a fair bit up top, but it feels too emergency option for it to be said that Harry Maguire can also play up top.

And you'd be very surprised to see him start there.

So maybe it's about starting games.

But then Mikel Marino, would it be said he's a centre mid who can also play up top?

Would he be listed on Wikipedia as a centre midfielder and centre forward?

If not, when does one progress to being accepted as someone who can play in two positions?

Charlie.

Starting a game, does that feel like a good criterion?

Yeah, I do think that is a difference.

I mean, there's a big difference between to actually start a game is you've kind of got to know what you're doing a little bit or at least try and work out what you need to do in that position.

If you're just getting chucked, if you're just going up there, you know, late doors to try and salvage a goal.

I mean, I guess this does raise the thing that football doesn't have a kind of definitive lister of positions.

I mean, people use different sources for this, don't they?

There's not, it's not like, you know, you earn a qualification to become, yeah, he's got his doctorate in centre-forward play.

He can play there now.

You know, some people might go on Wikipedia.

Some might go on

map.

It has that.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I mean, Mikel Marino

is an interesting example, I suppose, because he was fully an emergency centre-forward, but things were so stretched.

He actually had to play there.

I think he still kind of is in that bracket.

I don't think many people would be thinking of him as like a viable option to be starting games there.

How many games has he started up front?

Must be close to double figures because there was a really long period where he was basically the only option

last season.

But someone like Dirk Cowd, you remember, he came as a striker and then was a winger, you know, was a right-winger, basically.

That was all he did.

So I don't know at what point that would have officially changed.

The sort of right-winger that just does not exist anymore in football.

Functional, hard-working,

sort of wide man.

I'd say someone like Jacob Murphy is in that kind of category.

Like he, he plays as much for his sort of scrapping and helping out defensively, like incredible attitude and engine.

He's not someone you're playing necessarily.

I know he does get and has improved his output, but I think he's primarily just like an incredibly good, reliable pro in the way that Dirk Kout was.

So to have your emergency second position welcomed into your official CV, Dave, we're looking at at least half a dozen starts in that position and not during a sort of makeshifty kind of injury crisis either.

When it comes to the point where you're trusted in that role.

So obviously Harry McGuire will never be starting up front for Manchester United, no matter how many times he excels there in extremists.

It's not like he's being brought on with half an hour left either to play up front.

It's like he literally gets put up front for the last five minutes or moved up the pitch for the last five minutes to try and help.

A deluxe example of somebody like this would be like David Aliba, who if hard pressed, I'm not sure I'd necessarily know exactly what his best position is.

But he's a shitless man basically now.

I mean Philip Lahm became a midfielder didn't he and like a legit one even though it was then moving him back that sort of won Germany the World Cup.

But isn't this as well and I'm far from an expert on it but isn't FPL partly about getting those players who are kind of on the borderline and are graded as a midfielder even though they you know they're sort of on that borderline.

There is a bit of discussion sometimes.

Like for example Jared Bowen is a striker in FPL this season.

Right.

Right.

Whereas Salah is a midfielder.

That is mad.

They're essentially the same player.

That's that's strange.

Wow.

Yeah.

Okay.

Interesting question from Hen Cowan there.

Writes.

Finally, this came from Tapiocahead.

They say, I don't think I can trust anything anyone on Antiques Roadshow says anymore.

As someone brings in a painting that depicts a historic moment for English football.

Must be 1966, the World Cup final.

Here we can see Jeff Hearst about to score the winner.

I'll stop you you there, son.

Supposed to be an expert on this stuff.

That's Jeff Hurst ramming home the four.

The game's settler.

What perturbs you more, Dave?

The fact that he might think it's the winning goal, or he thinks that the fourth goal in a 4-2 is the winner.

The latter, I think.

Right.

Yeah.

Either way, don't take that valuation.

Get a second opinion is what I'm saying.

Because it's going to be deeply inaccurate.

Anyway, as Dan Weaver says on Reddit, speaking of antiques spreading misinformation, it's time for Keys and Grey Corner.

Great to outsource this for once.

Right, first item is Richard Keys, great on Twitter.

This weekend, by the way, here he is talking about the West Ham situation.

Karen Brady should follow Potter out of the door.

Remember, we've appointed the right man to continue our success.

Everything is in place.

Clearly not.

What a shambles.

See you at 2pm, Mecca.

Oh, I love a Mecca.

I love it when he tucks in a mecca.

Absolutely class.

Right, let's get into the real stuff.

Here is Keesy on Graham Potter.

Basically, just what a seal of approval this is from the big man.

I agree with you.

I think the big unrest with West Ham fans is the stadium.

He's a myth.

I'm afraid he gained a reputation for playing

nice football in a number when football was played the right way and he's delivered nothing.

And he's a nice guy and I wish him well and he'll get a championship job I suppose.

He's a myth.

He is a myth.

Wow.

Doesn't exist, Andy.

Nope.

And for some reason, Charlie, being called a myth seemed more harmless than saying he'll get a championship job, maybe.

Yeah, yeah, the implication would be that he'd be lucky to get that.

he'll be going abroad.

Good luck to Potter.

And the thing that you wish you can't see if you're listening there is when Keese's talking about playing football the right way, he's doing the little thing with he's like doing that.

How do you describe it?

He's like, as if he's like holding a pen and just sort of flicking his hand.

I was thinking it's like sowing seeds.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Distributing the ball.

I'm so glad that he decides that is the universal gesture for playing the right way, which, by the way, they think is on the way out, Charlie, playing football the right way.

Yeah.

that's been a that's been a big discourse this season, indeed.

Speaking of going back to old school basics here, this is great from Andy Gray on Ruben Amarin.

I know what Jason's saying about metrics, stats, I know what they'll do, I know he he will have it out there.

There's the stats, there's the metrics.

Simple fact of the matter is, you don't win a football match on metrics and stats.

You win a football match in creating chances and scoring goals.

If you don't do that, you can take all the metrics that you have, you can say, We've had 900 passes, you've only had two, we've upped our percentage of accurate passes, we've upped our XG

all over the pitch.

But sorry, there's one XG that you haven't quite got the better of, and that's, see that little thing with the three posts at one end of the pitch?

Well, there's two of them.

One you try and put the ball into, and the other you try and keep it out of.

They're not very good at either at the moment, I don't think.

I mean, what is the best bit from that, Charlie?

For me, it's the hypothetical scenario of a team having 900 passes and the other team having two.

The great things are that, like, XG is about about creating chances.

And that is where they're doing quite well.

Yeah, I mean, it's just all great, isn't it?

And the

sort of, again, you can't see it, but the pride in Keesy's face through a lot of this, and he's laughing.

I think when he does the XG, I can't remember now.

Were there inverted commas?

There may have been.

The most aggressive inverted commas I've ever seen.

So, you know, that's another myth.

And the pride Keesy, as he's doing it, is like, you, well done, well done, lad.

He signs off there, Dave, with one of those classic hyper-simplifications of football that is usually attributed to a great manager from back the day.

He used to say, keep the ball out there, that goal at the other end and score him in that one.

And there's a certain demographic of football people who love to just relay those stories because it's a simple game, football.

It's a simple one.

He did say, see that thing at the end with three posts.

Which is an incredible way of phrasing it.

How can I make this really, really simple?

If anything, he's gone too complicated on the oversimplification.

He's got himself in knots.

Absolute knots.

Right, finally, between 1.07pm on Saturday and 6.23pm on Sunday, there were just the 13 tweets from Keesy about Premier League officiating in some form.

He really got on it this weekend, Charlie, but this little trio in the space of about 57 minutes on Saturday were great.

Referees have got to stop players travelling so far down touchlines.

They're all at it.

It's wrong.

Ref cam, stop it.

What a waste of time.

How is that not a red card?

Because it starts off with...

It's a great trio, Charlie, because it starts off with a new bugbear, a new campaign from Keesey.

Second thing, like a completely innocuous thing to get stuck into.

And then finally, just a sort of splurged-out thought from nowhere.

What's his point?

What is the thing he's talking about in the first one?

The referees have got to stop players travelling

on throw-ins, right?

Yeah, it must be creeping yards.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, he's tweeted about that quite a lot lately.

It's definitely his new thing.

He's moved on from Arteta and managers going out of the technical area to

players are just constantly stealing yards.

It feels like this season, more than any other, Charlie, he's turned into the real nemesis of PGM Orwell.

He's really got stuck into the more.

But we've had the ongoing vendettas, but now it feels like a real-time kind of checking procedure.

I feel like he has become the new Premier League match centre.

He's like the.

There's Dale Johnson on one side and then Keesey on the other.

One's.

Dale Johnson's got precedent and logic.

Yeah.

There's one to sort of explain them and the other is just to completely bash sort of everything they do.

Just get those two together.

That'd be a good ref watch, wouldn't it?

It could be a good podcast.

Call it the Football Authorities or something about that.

Right.

Brilliant stuff today.

Thanks to you, Charlie Equisher.

Thank you.

Thanks to you, Dave Walker.

Thank you.

Thanks to everyone for listening.

We'll be back on Thursday.

See you then.

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.

This episode is brought to you by LifeLock.

It's Cybersecurity Awareness Month, and LifeLock has tips to protect your identity.

Use strong passwords, set up multi-factor authentication, report phishing, and update the software on your devices.

And for comprehensive identity protection, let LifeLock alert you to suspicious uses of your personal information.

LifeLock also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back.

Stay smart, safe, and protected with a 30-day free trial at lifelock.com/slash podcast.

Terms apply.

The questions start early: How do I know when he's full?

Do babies hold grudges?

That's why we make one formula that feels right right away, backed by Breast Milk Science and built for babies' brains, bellies, and beyond.

Learn more at buyheart.com.