The "Club X til I die" loophole & torn hamstrings at the Battle of Hastings: The listeners' loves & hates

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Speaker 7 Sport Social Podcast Network, the biggest voices in sport. Let's take a look at some of the lineup.

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Speaker 9 Sure, whether stress fractures were a thing in in the mid-70s in the same way that nobody ate avocados until 2005.

Speaker 3 Let's be having you.

Speaker 10 I love the fact that he's chosen that moment to go.

Speaker 7 Do you know what?

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Speaker 3 All on Europe's biggest sport podcast network. Find your next favorite sport podcast.

Speaker 7 Search Sport Social Podcast Network and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 11 Sports Social Podcast Network.

Speaker 7 Verified comparison at content.sport dash social.co.uk forward slash comparison.

Speaker 6 I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like.

Speaker 2 Is Gascoigne gonna have a crack? He is, you know. Oh, I see!

Speaker 2 Brilliant!

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Speaker 2 He's round the goal, Keybane! Done it!

Speaker 2 Absolutely incredible! He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was eye without a shadow of a doubt getting him lip. Oh, I say,

Speaker 2 It's amazing! He does it tame and tame and tame again. Break up the music! Charge a glass!

Speaker 2 This nation is going to dance all night!

Speaker 2 The big question about Scotland's trio of World Cup securing wonder goals, more tales of Dua Leaper adjacent football hipsterdom, Mike Dean multiplying his referees on the overlap, the small print of pledging your lifelong allegiance to your club, hamstrings at the Battle of Hastings, goalkeeper throwing styles, away fans fans colour cohesion, and a football podcasting mini-phenomenon that must now be known as the Horncastle Watt.

Speaker 2 Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts. This is Football Clichés and your Mezza Harlan Dicks.

Speaker 2 Hello, everyone, and welcome to Football Cliches. I'm Adam Hurry, and this is the listener's Mezza Harlan Dicks for November.

Speaker 2 Joining me to go through your footballing fascinations and irritations is Charlie Eccleshare. How you doing? Very well, thank you.
And alongside you, David Walker, how are things? Things are good.

Speaker 2 Things are very good. Reminder that Cricket Clichés is coming this week.
You'll find each episode right here on the football clichés feed over the next six weeks of the ashes or so.

Speaker 2 Go to cricket.footballcliches.com for all your submissions to the podcast. You can even attach the media to that submission as well.
We have gone high-tech.

Speaker 2 Been a lovely response to cricket clichés so far, Dave. Hundreds of people seem to be very excited about this.

Speaker 2 And then also some people just saying Jesus Christ don't do this, which I also found quite funny because he can't stop us. I think that was just one person, wasn't it? Yeah, I think.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, it wasn't a huge refrain from several people.

Speaker 2 Well, look, let's hope we live up to the expectations of the many people who are excited about it. I'm excited about it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Me here writes in, Charlie, and says, is this the football cliché's equivalent of multi-club ownership?

Speaker 2 If so, and you're both nominated for a sports podcast award, is the pod that finished higher in their respective sports categories the only one that can be nominated? That's true.

Speaker 2 Is this going to open up a whole can of worms with other podcasts complaining to Cass or whatever about us both being in the same category?

Speaker 2 Yeah, we'll have to get Nick Miller back to the Football Clichés podcast on a fair value sort of market rate situation. Make sure we're not doing anybody over.
But yeah,

Speaker 2 if you like your cricket, give that a go because we're really excited about it. But before we get stuck onto the main event today, let's do a little adjudication panel.

Speaker 2 Whatever Ireland could do, Scotland can do better. Quite literally, in fact, because they have actually qualified for the World World Cup.

Speaker 2 A sensational night at Hamden Park, consumed by many via various forms of media. It is incumbent on us to get stuck into the commentary of this.

Speaker 2 Here is Scotland's fourth goal by Kenny McLean, as seen on the BBC.

Speaker 2 Obviously, sensational from start to finish, Charlie, but this further demonstration of the bell curve of partisan co-commentary, you know, it becomes you either want them to be completely impartial, then it gets a bit annoying, and then if it goes completely the other way, then it becomes acceptable again.

Speaker 2 Just, yeah, just embrace it. I mean, who's going to begrudge it at this point?

Speaker 2 We're all Scotland fans there by then.

Speaker 2 You know, it's a very sweet spot of a shooting opportunity, Dave, when the co-commentators are urging the player to have a go.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, it was completely met the bar for being able to completely let yourself go. You know, it's an exceptional circumstance.

Speaker 2 I mean, even generally, as we've spoken about before, national commentary on your national broadcaster, I think it's fine anyway. Oh, of course.

Speaker 2 And there are people that will differ with that view. But in that moment, in that game, you want them to be going mad like that.
And the cries of shoot, shoot, and then he does it. It was perfect.

Speaker 2 My research for this moment, Charlie, took me to Kenny McLean's FB ref page. So I wanted to just

Speaker 2 clarify for myself, obviously, what foot he's strongest with. Because when I was watching that replay of that goal from behind,

Speaker 2 it looked like

Speaker 2 every brain cell was committed to his weaker foot, sort of lobbying Caspar Schmeichel from halfway. But he is left-footed, I'm told.

Speaker 2 But there's something really impressive about that technique, like doing it on the run in the grand scheme of halfway line goals. I feel like that was, that's right up there, sort of technique-wise.

Speaker 2 I think it should be appreciated more for the technique as well as the spectacle. It is, yeah.
The other thing that struck me, why is Kaspaschmichel where he is?

Speaker 2 Because he's not so far out that he's helping in any way. Does he just get, like, why is he there?

Speaker 2 Either be on sort of the halfway line as an extra player or in the box. Don't just sort of...

Speaker 2 Did he just absentmindedly walk 15 yards forward? Like, that's not doing anything. I think it's in the jeans, isn't it? Just to be a little bit too far out.
Yeah, but that's what.

Speaker 2 But either do it or don't, yeah.

Speaker 2 They do love getting lobbed. Kaspaschmichael is an elite level, desperate backpeddler.
I know this from the last few years.

Speaker 2 And I I think he was just sort of on hand to sweep up so that they could get the attacks going again. So he was the pumper of the ball into the box.
But Demark haplessly losing possession.

Speaker 2 Imagine if he had gone with his weaker foot, though. What an audacious move in that moment.
It's like Ronnie O'Sullivan potting with his left

Speaker 2 in the final or something. Didn't Jabil, I'm pretty sure Jabilonzo's one at Luton is with his weaker foot.
Is it? I'm pretty sure. I think it was his, I'm sure it was with his.

Speaker 2 Does he have a weaker foot, of course? I'm pretty sure it's with his left. No, he's that good.

Speaker 2 Either way, I'm going to be satisfied here. You're either right or you're wrong.

Speaker 2 He, yeah, because he scored, obviously, the one against Newcastle from even further out or around the same range as his right. I think.
Yeah, I think this one's with his leg.

Speaker 2 The one where Gerard's sort of screaming at him. Peter Brackley on comms in the video.

Speaker 2 How can we doubt you now? This is... Yeah, here we go.
Yeah, it's on his left foot. Wow.

Speaker 2 You're sure you're not watching one of those mirrored YouTube channel things to try to get around the copyright. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 All of it's his left. He sort of controls.

Speaker 2 It's like he is a left-footed player.

Speaker 2 He takes the touch. No, he takes it with his right, but he's sort of angling his body as if he is left-footed and then takes it with his left foot.
Demonstrates the class of the man. Fair play.

Speaker 2 Let's also enjoy the radio commentary on BBC Radio Scotland for this superb moment.

Speaker 12 Scotland just needs to hold out for a few more seconds.

Speaker 12 My voice just needs to hold out for a few more seconds.

Speaker 12 As Guillermo has it, he's surrounded. He pokes the ball back.

Speaker 12 Surely now Scotland will hold on to possession. It's McLean.
He's looking to go for goal. From the halfway lane, it's Jim Schmidt.

Speaker 12 Glorious.

Speaker 12 Glorious.

Speaker 12 Kenny McLean from the halfway lane. Scotland for Denmark.

Speaker 12 We are returning to the World Cup. What a night.

Speaker 2 Dave, in the middle there. Sounds like someone's auto-tuned Gary Neville.
It's amazing.

Speaker 2 Yeah. That is a good Gary Neville Gorgasm.
But

Speaker 2 I do really like the commentator laughing there, which sort of just spontaneously breaking out into delirious laughter.

Speaker 2 Especially, because the thing is, as well, I mean, it's an amazing moment in and of itself, but following on from the overhead kick in the fourth minute, the goal from Tierney, the whole drama of the night, I mean, you can see why his voice is clinging on for dear life.

Speaker 2 But I think we've all had those moments where you're so just, you know, elated for whatever reason that laughter is the thing that comes out yeah charlie it could only have been laughter for this goal i mean imagine you can't imagine them laughing at kieran tierney's third that actually secured the qualification that would have been completely inappropriate but for this goal it's exactly the right reaction well it you are yeah you're into that kind of don't use the word dreamland but you are into that state of just like i cannot believe this this is just like this is be this is kind of beyond our wildest dreams like what is happening kind of thing i mean it is just on dreamland i mean our last episode that went out this weekend was on the international break and it's kind of played out like all the different elements that we talked about the kind of the fact that you can get these incredible highs and you know that's where you know it's international but it's very best.

Speaker 2 But at the same time we've also had the kind of club meltdown because of an injury and a friendly like it's really sort of it's it's been a really sort of perfect international break to illustrate a lot of the themes we were talking about.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we did really need that Brazil game at the Emirates, did we really? I suppose

Speaker 2 you've got to play your quota of fixtures, I guess. All the time you were worrying about Angola and Argentina, Charlie, when when it was right on your doorstep.
Exactly. Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 I was thinking that there'd be a lot of that sort of like, why are we playing these friendlies in far-flung places?

Speaker 2 Elliot Newstead writes in, David says, I put it to you that there will never have been a game before containing goals from a bicycle kick, 23-yard strike from a left back, and a lot from the halfway line.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 there's no way of checking this, but I'm sure it's true. Yeah, I was going to say, good luck, Elliot, if you want to try and find out.

Speaker 2 But an amazing, yeah, an amazing collection of three of the three very different goals, but all amazing in their own right. On this, Charlie, a question has come in from Cam Tastrophe.

Speaker 13 Has there ever been another game where the goal of the game is in the goal you show on all the highlights wheels as a kind of quick shorthand for the game is kind of more up in the air than the Scotland qualifying one?

Speaker 13 Because the best goal of the game from their most famous player is the first goal, but then the goal that actually wins it for them is also a very good goal from outside the box.

Speaker 13 But then, obviously, the one that will probably be shown is the fourth one that kind of seals it.

Speaker 13 But I think three of the four goals could all be used as sort of shorthand for Scotland winning this game, which I don't think happens that often.

Speaker 2 Absolutely spot on, Charlie. I mean, again, I could have done my research here and found out which goal they used on the news at the start to present the situation.

Speaker 2 I mean, if he had to pick one, which one would it have been? I would go Tierney because that is the goal. That's the goal that sends them to the World Cup.

Speaker 2 Like, the McTominay one is the best goal, I think. But

Speaker 2 too much happens between the end of the end. It's slightly irrelevant, really, isn't it? It's quite annoying.
And if not irrelevant,

Speaker 2 but certainly, like, yeah, so much happens. And then the last one, I didn't like, it's a bit too kind of mad novelty.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 If you're capturing the moment of like, if the story is Scotland are going to the World Cup, I think it's Tierney's.

Speaker 2 If it's Scotland have won the maddest game ever, then I think you go with the last one.

Speaker 2 I think that's interesting you say that because so far I've seen more just on social media and people talking about it in WhatsApp groups and stuff.

Speaker 2 I've seen more sharing of the overhead kick and Kenny McLean's goal of the first and the last. I haven't.
So the TD one's got sort of lost a little bit, I think.

Speaker 2 It has been, I think, rightly or wrongly,

Speaker 2 overshadowed. And obviously, when Tieni scored, that was an amazing moment.
We didn't know what was going to happen after.

Speaker 2 But is it not one of those goals that it looks a little bit worse on the replay? There's a deflection. There's a small deflection, isn't there? There's a nick.
It's a nice deflection, though.

Speaker 2 It kind of accentuates the goal. The trajectory.
I wouldn't say accentuates the goal, but it certainly kind of helps it on its way where it was kind of going anyway.

Speaker 2 So it's one of the sort of deflections I kind of don't mind. I mean, pull one out for Lawrence Shanklin's 0.98 XG.
I mean, that's not getting any time, is it? That's not going on the news.

Speaker 2 Imagine if they use that.

Speaker 2 He could be the quiz question, though, in 20 years' time. Who scored the other goal in that famous game?

Speaker 2 The Martin Peters of his day. Dave Earl Gray, No Sugar, writes in and says, Scott McTominay with the first bicycle kick scored by a number four.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's perfectly, I can't think of a single other one. Again, I mean, maybe there is one somewhere out there in the annals of the the game.

Speaker 2 In theory, Charlie, number four's not historically that unglamorous a number. So, you know, some not even outliers could be thrown up here.

Speaker 2 Like, you could get a, you know, a pretty sexy number four plucking a bicycle kick out of nowhere. Yeah, and also my mind went to Kanu or number four for Nigeria.

Speaker 2 And he feels quite sort of overhead kicky. I can kind of imagine him having done that for them.
So that, so, I mean, you know, you have to go through.

Speaker 2 He's a bit like Crouch, isn't he? He's got lots of legs. He's got a leggy.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Too tall to do a bicycle kick. Off the top of my head, I thought of Philippe Mexes for Milan versus Andalects.
I looked it up on YouTube.

Speaker 2 Tantalizing wait for him to get up off his back to show me his number, and he was a number five. Oh, devastating.
And then. Jorkaf was a six, wasn't he? That sort of scissor kick goal he scored.

Speaker 2 So I resorted, Dave, in the three minutes before we start recording to just look up the best bicycle kick goals. And I found a YouTube video with 20 of them.
Chronological.

Speaker 2 And it got to September 2020. A Marcos Senesi Senesi for Fire Nord versus Den Haag, number four.

Speaker 2 There we go.

Speaker 2 The only issue is it is bicycly, but it's a little bit horizontal. I'd say it's like 10 o'clock.
Okay. So, are we allowing it?

Speaker 2 It's nothing, so it's not as like properly vertical as Mutomedes last night. His leg is at 10 o'clock when he connects with the ball, but it ultimately does go back over his head and into the goal.

Speaker 2 Okay. And it's a bicycly movement, so I would allow it.
So that's we've got for now. Yeah,

Speaker 2 time is of the essence.

Speaker 2 Next up, Freddie Shires writes in, Charlie, it says, My wife, who only ever watches football through me, has just referred to Kelly McClain's goal as a halfy. She claims this is a thing.

Speaker 2 Has this ever been a thing? It sounds like she's been watching football on the sly, away from him with Ben Foster or something. I was going to say, I can sort of imagine on the FOSCAS that coming out.

Speaker 2 You're done by a halfy. Is there anything worse? But no, I've not heard that.

Speaker 2 It could be a thing in, like... plausibly be a thing in football, couldn't it, Dave? A halfy.
Yeah, I don't mind it. He's scored a halfy.
He's done it again. I can't believe it.

Speaker 2 Could that also be a term for half-folly? Oh, that works better. That's cleverer.
Yeah. I do like that.

Speaker 2 Finally, Christopher Peacock was watching the BBC's coverage, and amidst all the joy and just the little wry asides about Scotland's qualification, Charlie, Kelly Gates said, How's your American accent, Neil McCann?

Speaker 2 He says, I mean, I get the sentiment, Kelly, but I'm not sure that's how it works.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 is that a sort of nod to the fact that Scottish accents can be quite thick and hard for Americans to understand? So you're going to have to, so it is almost like going and having to talk the language.

Speaker 2 You're going to have to adapt. And

Speaker 2 that's a good situation. If you want to be understood.
Yeah,

Speaker 2 I think it's part of Trump's new border controls, isn't it? You've got to do an American accent at customs.

Speaker 2 They won't let you through, otherwise. Oh, dear, queuing up for that test would be quite funny.
Right, let's move on.

Speaker 2 We were talking the other day about Jua Lipa's football hipster credentials because she attended the Super Classico between Boca and River.

Speaker 2 and it emerged that she'd worn the shirts of both clubs at some point so uh a traitorous football hipster at the very most but tom walker writes in dave walker and he says this past summer myself and a friend were walking back along regent's canal from our monday evening five aside game while i was wearing last season's napali away shirt yes i am myself a self-confessed football hipster it was around 9pm the light was fading and the canal was pretty empty halfway back to king's cross i noticed a couple walking towards us.

Speaker 2 As they drew closer, to my surprise, I realised it was Dua Lipa and her fiancé Callum Turner.

Speaker 2 Not wanting to make them feel spotted, I tried to steal a couple of subtle glances as they approached, hoping they'd walk past without feeling bothered, but still giving myself a decent sight of the famous couple in the wild.

Speaker 2 Just as they walked by us, Callum Turner suddenly turned around and shouted Forza Napoli at me.

Speaker 2 I was completely taken by surprise, could only muster a pathetic fortza back with a secret sheepish smile.

Speaker 2 I'm interested to know your thoughts on whether this public acknowledgement of my shirt with the slightly in the no phrase makes Callum Turner the football hipster all along and by osmosis, Dua Lipa.

Speaker 2 Lipa wow I bet those um those subtle glances probably weren't that subtle to be honest were they inevitably this is the thing that speaks to me the most in this story actually Charlie is the seeing a celebrity and not wanting to remotely impose upon them that you know who they are.

Speaker 2 I would feel that anxiety massively actually. But also what not being able to stop yourself

Speaker 2 from looking in a slightly fascinating way. Exactly.
On the tube, like stealing a glance, but then not wanting to remotely let them think that they're being watched.

Speaker 2 Jua Lipa, funny enough, went to the same primary school as me, and she didn't get in the school choir. Would you believe it? Whereas I, very much in the choir, solos and the rest.

Speaker 2 So, could have been me. My fair lady, 98.
Rejected by her first club for being too small. This is great.
Yeah, exactly. It's that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 So, if you were walking along Regent's Canal, Charlie, and you bumped into Jewel, would you be able to go, oh, I think

Speaker 2 it's been a while?

Speaker 2 Yeah, Dua, a fellow famous FitzJohn's primary alumni. Wow, that's incredible.
It's a man of so many layers, you are. Right, next up, the latest guest on the overlap was Mike Dean.

Speaker 2 They were grilling him about all things refereeing, but most crucially, Mike Dean absolutely delivered for our purposes. Here's Mike Dean being introduced.

Speaker 2 This week, our special guest is Mike Dean, ex-Premier League referee, and more importantly, Tramier Robo supporter. Yes.

Speaker 14 Trammy Sims, yeah.

Speaker 2 It's been a while. I put it to you, Charlie, that there was no more cast iron guarantee of a Four My Sins when you put together Mike Dean and Tramir Robers on the overlap.
Great club for it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Absolute slam dunk for it. Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely perfect.

Speaker 2 Perfect. And I could also see Mike Dean doing like celebrity pointless or something.
Yeah. And giving that in his little intro bit as well.
Yeah, he's got quite a four my sinsy demeanor about him.

Speaker 2 Yeah, this is definitely.

Speaker 2 And then he was talking about refereeing past and present and came up with some of the

Speaker 14 Although the spotlight's on you as a referee, it was a lot more laid back a little bit.

Speaker 14 You can enjoy yourself, there's bigger personalities in the refereeing game than when I got on,'cause I was I got on and we had the Graham Poles, Graham Barbers, Durkins, Duns, all them kind of people involved.

Speaker 14 I don't think the list is as

Speaker 14 as deep as what it what it should be. I think there's there's too many of the bigger referees,

Speaker 14 your Taylors, your your Cavanas, your John Brooks to an extent. They they get they get big games all the time.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you're John Brooks to an

Speaker 2 I don't think, Dave, John Brooks has got himself to the plural level yet. No, and he's also, it's not a very suitable name to be pluralised where the S is already there.
It doesn't really work.

Speaker 2 Charlie, do you know who John Brooks is? Do you know what his face looks like? Yeah, I went to the same primary school as he was.

Speaker 2 He didn't get into the opposite, was he?

Speaker 2 John Brooks.

Speaker 2 I'm not sure I would. I'm not.
I mean, if I saw him, I could probably... No, I've just good.
That's not what I'm envisioning for John Brooks. Wow.

Speaker 2 One thing I've got up on you is knowing referees' faces from their name. But that's a sign.

Speaker 2 I mean, it does kind of prove Mike Dean's point because all of those other ones, you know, back in the day, he'd absolutely pick them out. But that's why he's only to an extent.

Speaker 2 During that first burst of pluralization, Dave, the camera panned out to the fan that sat behind Mike Dean, and sat directly behind him was Arsenal fan Laura Kirk Francis, who immediately upon hearing the pluralization just launched into a big smirk.

Speaker 2 Laura Smirk Francis, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You can definitely see that. Stifling the laughter.

Speaker 2 I have confirmed that that was on her mind instantly. Oh, really? It definitely looks.
Yeah, yeah. It's good to know that there are people out there

Speaker 2 doing our work for us. Right,

Speaker 2 let's wrap up this section with a lovely footballers' names in things. This is from the Today programme on Radio 4.

Speaker 15 You will never find consensus, I'm afraid, in this country over anything to do with Donald Trump.

Speaker 15 But yeah, there is considerable disquiet about the way he's been lashing out at journalists, female journalists, asking him these questions.

Speaker 15 And I suspect that that is one of the reasons why he has decided to do a vault fast on this issue.

Speaker 2 What do you reckon in football doing a Vault Fast would actually be?

Speaker 2 Like just not holding your line and then keeping someone on side. Wasn't there a game? Do you score two own goals or something? Yeah, you did actually.
That's doing a Vault Fast, isn't it?

Speaker 2 Oh, I love it. I love it.
I love it because Vault Fast Charlie has a name that could probably be pronounced in about four different ways. So it's so versatile for our purposes.

Speaker 2 I do remember, though, this being someone doing a Volt Fast Valkyrie sort of pun when

Speaker 2 he was knocking around in the Premier League.

Speaker 2 I love those ones. It's been a good footballers names in things week for this podcast.
Anyway, this episode of this podcast is brought to you in association with NordVPN.

Speaker 2 For those who don't know, VPN stands for virtual private network. It secures your connection, protecting your personal information and online activity, especially on public Wi-Fi.

Speaker 2 A VPN can also make your phone or laptop appear as if it's in another country, which is great for accessing content while traveling.

Speaker 2 Indeed, let's go over to Matt in Madrid, who was watching the Spanish Dezone commentary for West Ham 3 Burnley 2.

Speaker 2 And it features the traditional Hispanophone goal commentary, but also a truly mad way of expressing the name of each goal scorer.

Speaker 2 Goal,

Speaker 2 Florida! Goals.

Speaker 2 Go,

Speaker 2 Wilson. Go.

Speaker 2 Go.

Speaker 2 Sote. Go.

Speaker 2 Go.

Speaker 2 Walker Peters, but I'll have you right there. Do you know what? I was really enjoying that, Dave.
I'm so annoyed he didn't give Walker Peters the same treatment. That would have been so good.

Speaker 2 Walker Peters.

Speaker 2 That's so weird. The Suchek one in particular was so good.
Such is great, yeah.

Speaker 2 It's like he's been told, like, you can do the goal thing, but you do have to make clear who scored. You know, in case people aren't aware, so don't mind how you do it, just do get that in somewhere.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's like Premier League broadcasting rules if you don't say the goal score is named in the first two seconds.

Speaker 2 Almost sounds like they've pre-recorded it, they've just piped in the name computer game style. Yeah, exactly right.
very strange, but really enjoyable.

Speaker 2 And if you want to try NordVPN for yourself, go to nordvpn.com/slash cliches, and our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan. It's the best discount available.

Speaker 2 There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee, and the link is also in the podcast description if you need it. We'll be back very shortly with the listeners, Mezza Harlan Dix.

Speaker 7 Find the biggest voices in sports on the Sports Social Podcast Network.

Speaker 9 This winter's Ashes series is lining up to be one of the most exciting in a generation.

Speaker 9 Get all the latest reaction immediately after all five of the test matches on the Wisdom Cricket Weekly podcast with myself, Gaz Rana, and former England cricketer Mark Butcher.

Speaker 9 Search Wisdom Cricket Weekly podcast and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 4 Like Big Kick Energy with me, Maisie Adams, and me, Susie Ruffel. Each week, we bring you the latest from the world of women's football.

Speaker 4 Whether you're a lifelong fan like me or a newer fan like me and have recently got swept up in the lioness excitement, we've got everything you need to know about the women's game.

Speaker 4 Search Big Kick Energy and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 7 Find the biggest voices in sports on the Sports Social Podcast Network.

Speaker 9 Like me, Adam Collins from the award-winning Final Word Cricket podcast, covering the ashes in depth.

Speaker 9 Described by Wisdom, the game's Bible, as the gold standard of cricket podcasts, we'll have reviews of each day's play from the ground covering every hit, miss, and players inexplicably wandering out of their crease.

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Speaker 11 Oh, look at that!

Speaker 11 That is wonderful!

Speaker 2 Welcome back to Football Clichés. We're recording episode 12 of Dreamland soon.

Speaker 2 You can sign up for all the fun at dreamland.football clichés.com for $5.99 a month. You'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes, two episodes a month of Dreamland, and other things as well.

Speaker 2 And if you want to get in touch with the podcast, just email me at football cliches at gmail.com or DM me on all the various social media platforms as well.

Speaker 2 Right, listeners, Meza Harlan Dick's bumper crop we got this month, by the way. I really waded through it this morning and I picked out the six best.
Let's kick off the fascinations with Tom Adams.

Speaker 16 My footballing fascination is with the phrase insert team name till I die, i.e. Sunderland till I die.
I've always thought it should be Sunderland forever or Sunderland until the end of time.

Speaker 16 As it gets me thinking on those rare occasions where people have been diagnosed as medically dead, but then revived.

Speaker 16 That's kind of a loophole where maybe they could support Sunderland till they die, but then when they revived, they could support anyone else they wanted to, really.

Speaker 16 So if anything, the loyalty is not actually as strong by being until you die. Rather, it should be forever, you know, even into the afterlife, if that's something that you believe in.

Speaker 16 But yeah, anyway, something for you guys to discuss, maybe.

Speaker 2 Charlie, what's your favourite bit of that?

Speaker 2 Is it where he describes it in a loophole, which is the most sensational use of language I've ever heard, or him wondering whether we believe in the afterlife or not?

Speaker 2 If you believe in it, I love the idea, yeah, of if you do, if your heart stops beating or whatever, and then you sort of come back to life, you're like, yes, I can support someone else.

Speaker 2 Like, and no one can question me.

Speaker 2 I've done it. Or yeah, when you get to heaven or ever and you're at the pearly gates, you're like, oh, if you believe in it.
And yeah, you'd be like, oh, I can support Man City. Fuck it.

Speaker 2 And it's now forever. This is going to be amazing.
Well, I mean, Dave, as we all know, there's a, you know, there's a widely held stigma about changing the team you support. So imagine that backstory.

Speaker 2 But also, what made you change? Like, why did you change? You can't change your team. I died, actually.
I was clinically dead. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, fair enough, really. I think you would re-evaluate your life in many ways if you did medically die.
What have I been doing all this time?

Speaker 2 They make it so after themselves, don't they?

Speaker 2 I mean, he does raise a good point that the till I die thing is a slightly pointless thing of saying, given that that is absolutely assumed, because as you say, Adam, like, like, it's far more remarkable to change your team.

Speaker 2 Like, not changing your team is 100% expected.

Speaker 2 And anything else, you are like scum in the eyes of football fans. So to say till you die is like, well, yeah, obviously.
What else are you going to do?

Speaker 2 Dave, if you were bound by the terms of this agreement and you found yourself with a second chance at things, would you change?

Speaker 2 Do you think are there any teams that you quite fancy having to go out instead for the

Speaker 2 remaining 30, 40 years of your life? Yes, good point. I could refer to Black Ben, but hasn't.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I don't know. I guess you'd have to.
It could go one of two ways, really. Like, it obviously depends who you support initially.
Are you seeking glamour if you haven't had any before?

Speaker 2 Are you sort of fatigued by the glamour and you want to really go and be like a proper non-league man? Well, that's more likely the scenario, isn't it?

Speaker 2 Just go a little bit more earthy and see if you can, you know, develop a more kind of humble existence for yourself in football supporting things.

Speaker 2 Well, it might, but then you, you know, in a kind of midlife crisis crisis way of like buying yourself a flash car, it might be more to be like, hey, you know what? I'm going to support City.

Speaker 2 I'm going to support Chelsea. You're going to be a Real Madrid fan from now on.

Speaker 2 I can afford it now. I've earned a bit more money.

Speaker 2 This is a very good point.

Speaker 2 I think it's, I mean, it's basically like choosing a team and football manager, isn't it? Really? You're sort of going through all those same sorts of questions.

Speaker 2 Do I want to, yeah, do I want someone with a big transfer budget? Do I want to take some Norwegian minnows from the bottom all the way to the top?

Speaker 2 What will people say if I tell them I support them in the office? Will they go, oh, not talking to you again?

Speaker 2 I mean, the thing is, it doesn't really exist, but

Speaker 2 wouldn't the optimum of that be like, pick a team that wins their league every like four or five years? Yeah. That would be amazing.

Speaker 2 I don't think you'd want to, you wouldn't be like, oh, I'll pick City or something. That's too boring.
So I guess now like Liverpool would be the kind of... Liverpool or maybe Chelsea.

Speaker 2 Yeah, or Chelsea.

Speaker 2 But then I guess there are sort of, then there's all the baggage that comes with supporting a team that successful. But that feels like sort of the sweet spot.

Speaker 2 I want to dig into this prospect a little bit further, Charlie. If you were, under these circumstances or any other, to switch your allegiance, like, where would you start with your new team?

Speaker 2 Like, you've picked the team arbitrarily or otherwise. How do you start your fandom? Are you going back to watch season review DVDs from the last five years to get up to speed?

Speaker 2 Like, there's surely quite kind of clinical element to getting into that fandom. I mean, I do know people who have done this and have kind of picked a team who've died.
couple of times.

Speaker 2 Who have died and then sort of come back to life with this new lease of life and thought, yeah, I'll do this. No, people who didn't get to the afterlife, people are just in their first life.

Speaker 2 And yeah, so I know some of the processes for how you pick, but then, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I guess, yeah, I think you would go back.
I mean, I used to have this actually with Spurs.

Speaker 2 People would get in touch and be like, oh, you know, I'm an American and I only got into soccer.

Speaker 2 five or so years ago and I picked Spurs and I've you know I've been going back and I've just you know read about this or that so I think there is an element to which you do

Speaker 2 start with with a band, isn't it? Yeah, remember the first one. It's not really that representative of the letter out.
Yeah, exactly. Go to 94.95.

Speaker 2 That's the most recent, really fun one. Start with that.
See if you like it.

Speaker 3 Do them in order from there, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Actually, I was having a look earlier with the Jewel Leaper stuff.
Well, no, sorry, I was looking at who Callum Turner. I googled like, who does Callum Turner support?

Speaker 2 Because I was trying to work that out. But what it gave me was a Daily Mail article about Julie Leaper.

Speaker 2 And there was, you know, classic, like, they just got a few tweets and made an article out of it.

Speaker 2 But it was fans after she was pictured wearing an Arsenal shirt or being at the Arsenal Real Madrid game last season, it was fans going, hold on a minute, I thought she was a Liverpool fan because previously she'd had Liverpool shirts and she'd been I think Carragher gave her a shirt or something once, but maybe now that's the explanation.

Speaker 2 We know what's happened.

Speaker 2 She's kept it under the radar, but she's clinically died at some point and come back and thought, no, I'm going to go and be an Arsenal fan instead.

Speaker 2 You're only allowed to do it once, though, Shawly. Has anybody ever died twice? Never hear about these people.
Surely it's possible. Surely somebody has died twice.
Yeah, I'm sure. Must have done.

Speaker 2 Lucky them. Yeah.
All those clubs they get to support. Someone will do it for a YouTube video.
Just come back, actually. I think I'll go back to the original one, if that's okay.

Speaker 2 Could you just have a defibrillator ready? I really need to change the team. Right, right, getting a bit weird now.
Let's move on. Our second fascination this month comes from Josh Morris.

Speaker 18 A fascination of nine is when a referee has to enjoy the awkwardness of lingering around an injured player who they want to give a yellow or a red card to.

Speaker 18 Now, often this is when a physio comes on, very occasionally, even a stretcher may be required.

Speaker 18 And you just see the referee holding said card and having absolutely no idea what to do with himself between the time where they decided they want to give it and then are able to give it.

Speaker 18 And it's just fantastic to watch the range of emotions where they clearly are trying to get to that point, but obviously it can be delayed for up to several minutes.

Speaker 2 Dave, this is pure Mezet Harlan Dix. This is such a good MHD choice.

Speaker 2 I wonder if there is kind of established protocol for referees in this situation because whenever I see it happen, they do get their little notepad out and they have got the card relatively primed.

Speaker 2 But obviously, there's the stigma. You're absolutely not allowed to book a player while they're on the floor injured or even pretending to be injured.

Speaker 2 So, I wonder if it's kind of a smoothing of the process. They don't want to get it out of nowhere, but they don't want to show it early.

Speaker 2 So, there's that kind of halfway house of just walking around with the notepad in their hand looking like it's definitely going to happen.

Speaker 2 And you literally don't want to add insult to injury, you don't want to kind of let them get all the way off the pitch, have the applause from the fans, give them the thumbs up, and then you give them the red card at the end.

Speaker 2 It's the referee's worst nightmare, Charlie, when the injury turns out to be quite serious and then they're stretched off and then you basically have to book them and it's really sad.

Speaker 2 That is quite a tragic way of doing it. Yeah, I'm trying to think what it's the equivalent of in real life, but it's very distinctive what they do.

Speaker 2 They're sort of body like, you know, they sort of raise their nose. They're just sort of like keeping, keeping warm.
They're sort of just killing time. They do a little lap of the player, I think.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. They're like, sort of just look into the middle distance.
Because

Speaker 2 they can't do anything. You're sort of in limbo a little bit.
You can't do anything else. That is still your priority.
But there's nothing you can actually do.

Speaker 2 You just need to stay vaguely close to the player. Do a little doodle in the notebook or something.

Speaker 2 Now I think about it, Dave, I'm surprised that there isn't a kind of moral resistance to this in the same way that there is a moral resistance to players getting booked for taking their shirts off after kind of climactic goals.

Speaker 2 It was just like, oh, you don't have to do it, referee. I do.

Speaker 2 It's in the rules. I've got an assessor up in the stand.
You don't have to but there doesn't seem to be that's that kind of resistance to it I don't think

Speaker 2 no I mean it doesn't happen that often I guess but it's it's probably for a bad tackle as well let's face it like exactly I mean there will be a reason ultimately I mean you can't just sort of go oh it's fine he got injured that's the punishment

Speaker 2 we can't have double jeopardy

Speaker 2 Charlie there's a 90% chance this has been addressed in a kind of after-dinner Q ⁇ A at some point but shouldn't gazer have been booked for that second tackle in the 1991 FA Cup final? For the one?

Speaker 2 I can't remember. I don't know which way around.
Did he not get booked for the first one and then was booked for the second one?

Speaker 2 Or was he booked for the first one and then really should have got a second yellow but was carried off anyway? I mean, they're both clearly bookable offences. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, I thought because that's the one I have in mind is that kind of that famous Gazza one. Let's find out.
Yeah, it is the one that comes to mind. I think that scenario is a bit more understandable.

Speaker 2 Like if it's a second yellow or if it's a red card, oh wait, it doesn't negate the original offence. Like if they've if a player's done something, they should a team should still go down to 10.

Speaker 2 But it seems worse, doesn't it? If you're sending a player off that is obviously unable to continue playing. I'm reading an interview on the athletic with the referee Roger Milford from that day.

Speaker 2 It doesn't look like he was booked. Oh, yeah.
So yeah, when he planted his studs into Gary Parker's chest for the first one, he wasn't booked.

Speaker 2 And Milford is often asked, do you think Gazza would have calmed down if you had booked him early doors and he wouldn't have got to the second challenge?

Speaker 2 So if anything, Milford has just ruined English football. But also means that he didn't have that.
Well, I mean, you should have booked him. You should have booked him is the summary of that.

Speaker 2 But imagine that probably would have started the moral resistance of the whole thing. If you booked Gazza in that situation, Roger Milford would never have lived it down.

Speaker 2 But yeah, just a very welcome observation on the refereeing body language there from Josh Morris. Thank you.
Third and final fascination of football for November comes from Dom Eddy.

Speaker 19 Hi guys, my football fascination is football injuries in historical battles.

Speaker 19 So I recently ruptured my ACL for my sins and it got me thinking about how hundreds of years ago I would have been absolutely screwed.

Speaker 19 But also there are some injuries that we strongly associate with sport and football that must have been so common throughout all of human history. Take the pulled hamstring for example.

Speaker 19 We all recognise that movement.

Speaker 19 You know, someone is running, they pull up, they put the hand on the back of the hamstring, the leg straightens and they do that kind of hop until they can't walk anymore and ask to be subbed off.

Speaker 19 You know, I've got images of the Battle of Hastings and King Harold looking at his men and them running towards the enemy and seeing one of them put their hand on the back of their hamstring.

Speaker 19 Maybe the odd broken metatarsal. I've never heard of that injury outside of football, but you know, there must have been a few of those knocking about.

Speaker 2 Where do we start with this one, Dave? I love the idea of the hamstring at the Battle of Hastings. Yes,

Speaker 2 if that's impact, he might be able to carry on. But if that's more skiller, he's off.
There's no chance he can carry on.

Speaker 3 We know that.

Speaker 2 Surely, there must have been some hammies done at those sort of battles. Absolutely.
They didn't have modern-day physiotherapy practices. They weren't doing stretching.

Speaker 2 They weren't doing prehab, were they? Pre-activation.

Speaker 2 Don't start the battle yet. We've got to run around some ponies first.

Speaker 2 I mean, isn't it the thing that... I'm sure there are, but they're obviously overshadowed.

Speaker 2 When you think of historical battles, you know, you think of like the malnutrition that they would have had, or you think in the First World War of things like shell shock, or you think of things like gout, which obviously are still a thing, but you think of them as very much...

Speaker 2 Gout fas. You have gout fas.

Speaker 2 So those are what we tend to think about rather than necessarily the kind of the little niggles that they would have had.

Speaker 2 Because I guess they kind of pale into insignificance, especially in some of those kind of really horrendous battles.

Speaker 2 You know, human beings are getting more sedentary, Dave. So, you know, hamstring injuries are probably more common now than they would have been, you know, per capita back then.

Speaker 2 They would have been on their feet all the time, they would have been a bit more live, maybe. You know, less meat on the bones as well, so less pressure on the muscles.

Speaker 2 But yeah, there must be an account somewhere. There's somewhere must be documented the minor injuries of battle throughout the eras-like really minor, completely like innocuous stuff.

Speaker 2 I want to hear about those

Speaker 2 strains.

Speaker 2 Come on, Ben Dinnery. Go back through the record books.

Speaker 2 Number of days lost.

Speaker 2 It'll be Arsenal still.

Speaker 2 Oh, dear. But

Speaker 2 this question that Domedi poses right at the very start, Charlie, is a lot more common than you might expect. This is from some random podcast that came up in my Google search results.

Speaker 3 What do you think a caveman did when it tore his HCL? Sat on his ass for six months? No.

Speaker 20 I think they died, dude.

Speaker 3 I think they just died. They died with an ACL injury.
You know, I can't help the pack.

Speaker 20 Dude, I think when you tore your ACL, like, even through the medieval era, I think they just left you behind and you died.

Speaker 3 Well, they left you behind. No, you got one of those canes, like, that

Speaker 3 wildly useless

Speaker 3 village or forged. Did you say forged or foraged? Forage.
Just kind of cool. Okay, I didn't know if you became a blacksmith.
Well, that's later on. Okay.

Speaker 20 Well, just making sure. Clearly in the Bronze Age.

Speaker 2 It was clichés level granularity. I really enjoyed that.
Good, lads. But even like the tearing of the ACL, even like that feels like a really modern injury somehow.

Speaker 2 Or like, you know, going back to, I don't know, the 90s.

Speaker 2 Were they common in the 60s with players tearing their ACLs?

Speaker 2 Have ACL ruptures increased? I feel like they might have done, but maybe, maybe that's, I'm imagining that. I think we've always had ACLs, haven't we? I guess.
Just weren't

Speaker 2 such. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I think it's like

Speaker 2 you can still sometimes walk for a bit, can't you?

Speaker 2 Even though when you do your ACL, it's not an immediately. No, so some players play on with them, yeah.
So I think you could possibly have hobbled around as it could.

Speaker 2 You probably would be undiagnosed. Lots of undiagnosed ACL ruptures

Speaker 2 in the ancient times, I think. Well, there was actually an extreme case of this.
I remember reading about this years and years ago.

Speaker 2 Lee Wilkie, Scottish defender, played for Dundee and Dundee United, ended up with no ACL in either knee and attempted to just carry on playing, like by strengthening the muscles around his leg.

Speaker 2 And he just tried to carry on. He ended up having a dead person's tendon sort of stitched into it, which didn't work either.

Speaker 2 But yeah, one of the solutions he tried was just play without them, which is absolutely messy.

Speaker 2 Can't rupture them if you don't have them. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 Charlie, I love the idea that sort of ACLs just came into fashion, like cuts of meat that were disregarded like years ago as not being worthwhile are suddenly like, you know, they're all about the slow cooking now, and they're suddenly

Speaker 2 so. Well, like metatarsals, they hadn't existed till about 2005 and then they're everywhere.
Exactly. We just used to call it a broken foot, didn't we? Exactly.
There you go.

Speaker 2 I think the metatarsals would have been fine in the Battle of Hastings, by the way, because have you ever seen a coat of armour? Right. I mean, did they have coat of armours in the Battle of Hastings?

Speaker 2 I don't know. But they've always got a thing over the foot, haven't they? Yeah, yeah.
Crucial. Because you want to get dumb.
They're stuck in the foot.

Speaker 2 Because that would have been a good way to get someone stabbing them in the foot with a sword. Then they can't move and they're fucked.
You plant them to the ground. Then you'd lose your sword.

Speaker 2 So, anyway, yes, thank you, Dom Eddie. It's a pleasure to have that one.
That's your fascinations taken care of for November. We'll be back very shortly with your irritations.

Speaker 2 Welcome back to football clichés. We've heard the listeners' fascinations for November.
It's time for your top irritations. Number one comes from science teacher Mr.
Foley.

Speaker 2 He says, I'm basking in the glory of Scotland's win over Denmark. And there was a moment from Craig Gordon I just can't get out of my head.

Speaker 2 Great to know that this is preoccupying him in the afterglow of Scotland's win, Charlie. But I hard disagree from me.
I think it serves a very important function for quick restarts. Why so?

Speaker 2 What do you like about it? So the exact scenario that a goalkeeper does this is when they're sort of launching a quick counter-attack, but they don't need to throw the ball far.

Speaker 2 It's literally throwing it over an opponent's head straight into the path of someone, like a left back who's straight in front of them for them to carry the ball forward.

Speaker 2 And it's a bit like a rugby line out. You're going to guarantee accuracy with it because it's a symmetrical technique.

Speaker 2 You know you're going to get a straight line throw with with your quick throw it and it's a really quick with um with the classic goalkeeper throwout you've got to wind it up haven't you yeah especially you could push it all over your shoulder one hand i guess that would look mad but what about a little quick little roll would that not serve a similar purpose or interceptible dangerous yeah exactly on the ground you could it's and there might be bodies around you as well who might try and block it so i think you're getting as um as mr foley says there you um you're kind of getting it over the heads of the opposition players but it's crucially dave it's an expedient way of getting the ball out on the counter-attack.

Speaker 2 So when you're watching your team and you're in this scenario where a goalkeeper has plucked a corner out of the air and you know a counter-attack is on because your wing is already primed to go, you're basically willing the goalkeeper to release it in the quickest way.

Speaker 2 And I'm sure in my head I've gone, do the little, do the throw-in, throw, do it quicker, do it quicker, because every second counts on a counter-attack. Yeah, and it is annoying when

Speaker 2 you see them thinking about doing it and then they just think better of it. It's it actually, yeah.
This is another offshoot of this, Charlie.

Speaker 2 It's which is the goalkeeper surveying the scene for a potential counter-attack is basically happens at every corner now because we are such a counter-attacking era.

Speaker 2 The moment where they decide not to do it is so crushing. He's thinking, how have you not managed to assemble yourself in a counter-attacking situation from here? Surely it's on.

Speaker 2 But there's also the fake as well where they're kind of pretending that they're surveying and it's like, you're not really, you were never going to do it.

Speaker 2 We all know you're not going to do it, but you sort of got to look as though you want to do it.

Speaker 2 The moment a goalkeeper runs through the crowd, Dave, of a crowd scene at a corner with the ball in their hand, right to the edge of the area, threatening to do the countertack.

Speaker 2 It's very bloke clutching a Molotov cocktail at a riot.

Speaker 2 I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. It emerges from the crowd.

Speaker 2 It's amazing.

Speaker 2 The overall headline here is: I can't believe Mr. Foley was caring about this after the Scotland game,

Speaker 2 which is great for the news for this podcast that we're higher in his priorities to me. And he's got school the next day as well.

Speaker 2 But if you thought this was an incredible level of rattled for a Scottish football fan to be in the hours after that that game.

Speaker 2 Here's Scotsman Martin Dee in a voice note sent at 2.04am after the win over Denmark.

Speaker 22 One thing I hate when you watch triple on TV and the away end are just wearing like black dark colours and not their team's shirt.

Speaker 22 So if a blue team is playing a red team the away end should be a sea of red. You see that colour clash like when you see the Netherlands at a World Cup.

Speaker 22 If it's obviously like complicated if it's Liverpool versus Man United and they both play home and their home kits are red.

Speaker 22 Then it should be the away end should be in the designated away colours for that day, even if it's white, just wear a white t-shirt or a white jumper or some other form of white clobber.

Speaker 22 We need a definite kit clash when we're watching on TV. Bye.

Speaker 2 Right, where do I start with this?

Speaker 2 I do share the kind of irritation for this at its core, Charlie, which is when I'm watching a game as a neutral, you know, be it on highlights or whatever.

Speaker 2 if the crowd behind the goal, before a goal goes in, if I don't know whether they're the home or away team, I want I basically have to wait for their reaction to the goal to know whether that was the away fans or not, I guess that can be quite irritating.

Speaker 2 I mean, but yeah, should there be a kind of cohesive dress code for away fans? Feels like quite a lot to sort of coordinate.

Speaker 2 Like, yes, in an ideal world, you would have that contrast.

Speaker 2 And I guess that is why Holland is so great, because no one else, unless they're, yeah, no one else really, I mean, do the Ivory Coast, they wear orange as their home kit?

Speaker 2 Or that their way if they wear green as their home? Unless it's a Poland situation, I can't work out what their actual home, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I think, I think they're green now, yeah, I think it's green home. Maybe orange is their way, but like, yeah, so Holland kind of have that to themselves.
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 I just think that's quite a tricky thing. Who caught, like, who caught the sort of supporters club are saying, boys, uh, we're in our third kit actually tomorrow.
So

Speaker 2 yellow, please, if you can. Yeah, I mean, how formalised could this be, Dave? Like, I mean, you know, kits that sort of the official agreement of what kits are going to be be worn in a game

Speaker 2 is published before kickoff. So should away fan bases coordinate?

Speaker 2 I mean, obviously there are issues with the affordability of football kits, but I'm sure that there is a relative kind of impetus to wear the away kits when you know the team is going to wear the away kit.

Speaker 2 Like you do, you do see more of them, I'm sure. Because there must be some people who are making the choice.
Yeah, there definitely will be people that do that for that reason, no doubt.

Speaker 2 But if it was something that had to be rolled out en masse, you could have, you know, some assistant assistant referees at the turnstiles just

Speaker 2 checking the kits. Like studs.
Sorry. Checking studs.
We can't have any clashes. It's a tricky one for the mostly inclement weather of English football in autumn, winter.

Speaker 2 You're going to have a lot of grey and black and blue coats. And

Speaker 2 that does kind of affect the kind of background of things. It does ruin it a bit.
Goalkeeper kits as well, the thorny issue.

Speaker 2 Not that thorny, is it? Let's face it. Can you have a proportion, one in 11 sort of knocking around? It's for psychos and kids, isn't it?

Speaker 2 Especially if you've got the banded arms.

Speaker 2 The solution that Martin comes up with, Dave, that you know, in the event that some people might not own the kit, if your team's playing away in white, you might just want to wear a white t-shirt or a white jumper.

Speaker 2 I mean, should found basically be going to that stretch to make them look visually coherent?

Speaker 2 I mean, I still think there will be people out there that will think along those lines, particularly if you are, well, I mean, actually, most colours, really, but like, yeah, just wearing something red if you're Liverpool Arsenal, Man United, or whatever.

Speaker 2 It just sort of

Speaker 2 gets you a little bit closer, perhaps, to where you think you should be if you don't want to wear the shirt or a scarf.

Speaker 2 Martin D, Charlie, sort of talks about the sea of red that you want to see in that situation. So this is more incumbent on sort of FA Cup finals, isn't it?

Speaker 2 Which I guess the weather will probably be better. So there's more of a responsibility for the half of a stadium to be wearing as much of that colour as possible.

Speaker 2 I think that does happen in FA Cup finals. Like, a club will say, like, we're going to be in white or whatever, so, you know, do we urge you to try and wear it?

Speaker 2 Because they are trying to create that, because I think they don't want that sort of, you know, sort of speckled effect where it's not really clear, or whether, you know, where there's too much, you're just wearing, you know, say the red of what your opponents are wearing.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I think a cup final, you would, you would coordinate that.
It's one of the things I like about supporting a team that plays in yellow is that there aren't that many of them.

Speaker 2 So it's when we have been in big finals at Wembley or whatever, having that block, it looks distinctive. And because yellow.
No, it softens the blow of losing six nils to City.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, we are all in the right case. We waved our flags, mate.
Don't worry about that. And yellow is the number one sea of in football, isn't it, Dave? Yellow's absolutely the sea of.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like piss, isn't it? Sea of piss. I think that you could have the sea of orange.

Speaker 2 Yeah. A bit more dehydrated.
Yeah, the really dehydrated Dutch fans. I think you would.
It's a sea of orange here in Sapporo or whatever.

Speaker 2 Not a big fan of sea of orange.

Speaker 2 They weren't out in 2002 world. Yeah, come on, yeah.

Speaker 2 That's brilliant. That's brilliant.
Don't take it out. Leave it in because he's admitted to it.
That's the main thing. Sea of red, I don't like.
It's too primary, Charlie. You can't have Sea of Red.

Speaker 2 Sea of Blue, if anything, doesn't work either. Sea of Yellow, Sea of Green, Sea of Orange, for sure.
Sea of Green. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't think you want one of those kind of main colours. Red's more suited to

Speaker 2 your red wall. I mean, obviously, you have got the yellow wall as well.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But yeah, once again, just great that we're the top priority for Scotsman Martin D there. Right, final irritation from our listeners for November comes from Colin McCracken and he has gone niche.

Speaker 5 Hi cliches, my footballing irritation is what I'm calling the podcasters what or if I'm being cruel, the Horncastle Watt.

Speaker 5 This is where a pundit appearing on a football podcast will, just before they quote a number or a statistic, will ask themselves the micro question, what? This is a team that's won what?

Speaker 5 Six of the last ten, Scudero? This is the side that spent what? 70 million in the transfer window. This is a player that scored, what, eight in his last ten appearances.

Speaker 5 I noticed it once months ago, and now I can't stop noticing it, and I find it very irritating.

Speaker 2 This may well be the most niche one we've ever done, Dave, but um, are you familiar with this concept? Does this thing happen? Yeah, very identifiable, completely. Well, I can, I'm sure I've done it.

Speaker 2 I can picture myself having, having done it. When you're just talking, again, it's one of those things where you know, pretty much know you're right, but you're just not entirely sure.

Speaker 2 You just have to give yourself a bit of leeway. This is crucial, Charlie.

Speaker 2 When I was trying to sort of picture the exact scenario where this might be rolled out, is it a case of it's a number so specifically uncertain that you want to kind of just cushion your uncertainty with a what?

Speaker 2 Or, as Dave suggests, is it a number that you definitely know but don't want to show that you know it too obviously and clearly? I think it's a bit of both, or it can be either.

Speaker 2 I should say in Horncastle's defense, he would say Scudetti. I'm sure lots of other people listening are thinking that

Speaker 2 in that instance.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 I think both. And I'm sure that's what I'm saying.
The fog's really lifted from you this week, hasn't it, Charlie?

Speaker 2 People really praising you being back on form this week, and rightly so. You've come back with some serious gusto.
You've got your mojo back, Charlie. Yeah, the fog has lifted.

Speaker 2 Honestly, you know that thing when like a cold goes, you're like, oh my god, I feel incredible. Yeah.
It's an amazing feeling. Yeah, I'm sure, I mean, we do, everyone does this.

Speaker 2 And I bet, you know, this would be even for our listeners, I think this would be a job beyond them. But on listen, fair play, if it picks up what I'm sure you can see

Speaker 2 in many, many instances when we've done this, even on this podcast, which is less about you know, sort of talking in that way. But yeah, I mean, we must do that, what, two, three times an episode?

Speaker 2 I mean, it is a strange construction, isn't it, Dave? The insertion of what here. I mean, it's it does seem to be quite sort of instinctive for people.

Speaker 2 I don't think it has a kind of established grammatical reasoning. It doesn't really fit grammatically, does it? No, it doesn't, but it does make sense and it feels quite a natural device to use.

Speaker 2 I think it's

Speaker 2 a bit better than the the 789. Yeah, exactly.
Then that.

Speaker 2 It probably comes together sometimes, really, though, doesn't it?

Speaker 2 He's 6'2 ⁇ , 6'3, is he?

Speaker 2 I think it's actually, the more I think about it, Charlie, it's quite an elegant thing to just stitch in mid-sentence.

Speaker 2 It doesn't break the rhythm of what you're saying, and it has the desired effects either way, you know, whatever scenario you're using it in, for whatever motivation. I quite like it.

Speaker 2 It does soften things a little bit. But I have to admit, I can totally vividly imagine Horncart doing it.
So now Colin McCracken is kind of justified in various ways.

Speaker 2 But yeah, the Scudetti, that's unforgivable. But it is, yeah, it is.
It does make what you're saying just that little bit more casual and conversational.

Speaker 2 I do think it's more actually, of those two options, I do think it's more that than when you know it, but you don't want to show you know it.

Speaker 2 I think it's more that you're pretty sure, but it does just, it's just like a level of insurance you're giving yourself.

Speaker 2 Dave, surely this paves the way for us to be able to do a Dreamland on football podcast now. That's it.
We can go as meta as we like.

Speaker 2 Well, we need people to keep an eye out now for these watts in the wild. I want a montage of what's by the end of the end of this month, if possible.

Speaker 2 Anyway, yeah, fascinating selection from our listeners. Very troubled souls they are out there.
Death, the afterlife.

Speaker 2 Away fans kits. It's been superb.
Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshare. Thank you.
Thanks to you, Dave Walker. Thank you.
Thanks to everyone for getting in touch. We'll be back on Tuesday.
See you then.

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