England are European champions, again: Football Weekly

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a proper football journalist mate exactly too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out.

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

England are European champions again defeating Spain on penalties.

Hannah Hampton saves Chloe Kelly smashing at home.

What a moment.

England only led for four minutes in the knockouts or something like that, but it doesn't matter.

They found a way.

They started well before Spain took over.

Mariona Caldente's excellent header.

It looked like England were running out of ideas, but Chloe Kelly again setting up Alessio Russo for even better header.

So many stories.

Lucy Bronze's fractured tibia, Michelle Ajimang from ballgirl to European champion, Jess Carter's brilliant performance after what she's been through, and Serena Wiegman, five major tournament finals in a row, three European championships in a row.

It's frankly ridiculous.

It's come home again.

This is the Guardian Football Weekly

On the panel today.

He was in the gantry.

Seb Hutchison, welcome.

Oh, hello, Max.

He was in the stands.

He was in the press box.

Nick Ames, hello.

Hello, Max.

And she was on her sofa with her four-year-old.

Is he four now?

Not quite.

Almost.

Okay, nearly four-year-old.

Holy fake or others, welcome.

Welcome.

Nice to see you.

Yeah, host of the excellent Guardian Women's Football Weekly, of course.

So there we go.

England win 3-1 on penalties, back-to-back European championships for them.

The first time in England side, men's or women's have won on foreign soil.

We should start with the shootout.

I guess we go to you, Seb, because you had to talk about it.

I see Robin Cowan couldn't be bothered to show up.

You know, there's the loyalty, but outrageous.

What a moment, eh?

And she absolutely smashed how I like a penalty.

It's how to win a shootout, isn't it?

People asked me before the game, are you going to write down what you're going to say if they win?

Are you going to try and script script the moment?

But football just rarely plays out that way.

And you find yourself chasing your tail if you do that a lot of the time.

So

it felt like the moment the shootout started,

I did feel pretty confident about England.

I just felt these were the moments that they'd built up to in this tournament.

If it was going to be tight in the game, they would be the team to get over the line.

And I think the shootout played out again how we thought it might there were going to be penalty saves there were going to be misses but it felt special that hannah hampton was able to make a couple of saves

that big players were going to miss from both sides and that chloe kelly would be there on the decisive moment and it's it's amazing for somebody who's not started a game it was just

Throughout the tournament, she was always there in the big moments.

And we always, obviously, it's a team game, but we like the individual stories, don't we?

And there were so many in that game.

Yeah.

And Faye, I mean, I, of modern football parlance or sporting parlance, I find it hard to use the word clutch because I just think about a Renault Espouse.

But Chloe Kelly had such a clutch tournament, didn't she?

Yeah, she was incredible.

It's really hard when you're the player chosen to make the impact.

There's A, the pressure of the impact, and B, that kind of, but why aren't I starting?

And you saw that with Alessi Russo and Ella Toom back in 2022 and Chloe Kelly was the star of 2022 and yet has still had to effectively and I don't think you can actually say this anymore in in modern football if you like but she's had to be the um the spare part rather than the starter you know we we're so used to saying that the starters are the most important we put so much emphasis don't we on the radio what's the starting 11 etc and it's not it's all about the finishers and uh chloe kelly has this uh she's a big game player is how we always describe her because she just knows exactly what to do in those moments comes on and she had you know more time coming on at halftime obviously because uh lauren james had been injured but i mean what what an incredible story from her for what she um has achieved in her career and she she just is so brave and so fearless and to go and step up and take that penalty knowing that she'd missed one before uh it obviously she did score the rebound but you know incredible

and that's interesting nick isn't it the way she plays the game it's very different to lauren james but obviously lauren james didn't look fully fit and and kelly made a difference as soon as she came on but they both play like they don't really care in very different ways i think

Yeah,

there's a wonderful freedom to both of them.

James, as you say,

was struggling throughout the whole tournament.

I think I don't, I mean, she scored that wonderful goal against Holland, but I don't think you can judge her really on her output over the last three weeks.

That wouldn't be fair.

She was laboring due to fitness, but yeah,

when Chloe Kelly gets on that ball, gets him a pitch, you just feel that stuff is going to happen, really.

I mean, it did within about two minutes of her coming on.

I remember her skipping down the left and putting a crossing.

I think it just got cleared away from it in front of goal.

But you just feel that magic is possible, you know.

And

when she stepped up to take that penalty with with that bizarre skipping run-up yeah

slightly dressed never seen before but i think it you know it must kind of occupy the goalkeeper that a bit um you know i i didn't have any doubt that she was gonna thunder it in but no there's um there's a real genuine joy i think to the way she plays um I think it was very, very fitting that she showed up and scored that winning penalty.

It was just an absolutely magical moment.

Yeah, I mean, I hope that inspires, you know, league two cloggers who smash penalties to do that little hop julian dix does that hop before welling one in you mentioned hannah handsome as well seb and there are there are so many players to pick out but you know first major tournament and you know obviously what happened with mary oats being picked ahead of mary oats chosen for her distribution but she is she was so good she sort of seems in those penalty shootouts you know you just sometimes think like donor rumma i guess like keepers that are just going to make saves and she has that vibe about her She, I mean, she's had an incredible football journey.

And of course, all the stories are coming out now about her eye condition, about the idea that she was trouble at previous clubs, the idea that she's a player with a big mind, a big ego, all these sort of things that feed stories to help people create a picture of somebody negatively and positively.

But for somebody who essentially is in her, you know, 25th year,

she is the maturity

was was off the scale she did two interviews with ITV recently one before the tournament and one during the tournament and before the tournament she did speak about the effect of the whole Mary Earp situation and feeling that supporters weren't behind her or felt that she shouldn't be in the team and that had got to her she's a very honest person

and then During the tournament, she did another one where you could just see in her that she felt more settled once the tournament had got underway.

And she got it's, I think, for a goalkeepers, it's getting your hands on the ball, feeling busy, and knowing that you're the last line really before that ball goes into the net, and there's a lot of things might have gone wrong before it reaches you.

So, I think that gives goalkeepers some comfort, even though it flags up.

And

I saw that, you know, Bon Matte got player of the tournament, which I always think is a slight reputational thing as well.

I seriously think Hampton was in the running.

When you look back at the competition, the saves she made at certain certain times, her distribution that created goals for England.

Moes even gave way she was down injured.

She had to stick something up her nose and battle on.

And the pictures and the images from this tournament, there'll be so many of them.

I feel like for England, this tournament condensed.

what you would see in many, many tournaments across the years, that you know, that Terry Butcher look, the players strapping themselves up, the roars on penalties, players going off injured staying on the pitch great goals coming from the depths comebacks teenagers teenagers taking their moment when you hadn't really seen them before we've seen it before in major tournaments but it was all condensed in one incredible situation and and to to to wrap it back up on hannah i think uh

it also shows that

that somebody can be in a position where Mary Ups was in and considered, you know, a huge player for England.

But that's what makes sport so great.

In one or two moments, you can just take that spotlight yourself.

Yeah, totally.

I mean, it's a good moment interview after the game where they were, you know, she was talking about the Pennsylvania shootout.

She just lost count.

And she had to ask the fans, if Chloe Kelly scores this, do we win?

Like that, you've had done all this homework.

You've got all this stuff written on your arm.

You're like, what's the score again?

Johnny Lou wrote a piece for you saying this is, you know, perhaps England's greatest sporting heist in the sense that it's sort of ridiculous that England have won this tournament,

given the performance after the France game, where I thought they were appalling, and then given the comeback, and then given the Sweden game, the Italy game, you know, just so many moments you're like, you can't keep doing this.

I think it's the mark of the champion, to be honest.

I think, you know, it's really easy

as we sit on our sofas or up in our press gantry or wherever we're watching these games to think that on the pitch, you know, they're not doing their job properly or wow, they're amazing.

And there's so much more context to it than that.

And and this side have been through so much leading into the tournament all the noise around them and Lucy Bronze talked a lot about the about the noise the negative noise around them we we kind of particularly in this country we want to bash people down when they've won a lot of the time so we were almost waiting for them to to trip up um having had such a brilliant tournament in 2022, having got to the final of the World Cup in 2023.

And that opening France game, they were awful.

They were so sloppy.

They weren't up to speed.

And it was a really difficult watch.

And so, of course, that feeds straight into that narrative straight away.

But what we've seen in this tournament is the team, the resilient teams are the ones that have gone the furthest.

I actually thought it might end up being a Germany-England final because they just had that, you know, no matter what, let's get ourselves over the line.

And I think it, you know,

they won it so differently

to 2022, I felt that they had to, they had to win it ugly in a way.

They had to win it going through three games in 120 minutes and two penalty shootouts.

That's insane.

And I think once you've kind of done that, you feel a little bit invincible.

And, you know, they know that they don't have to go into a tournament in the best fitness, in the best, as long as they're a collective and they push through and they don't stop and they never give up, then it's possible that they could win it, which is exactly what they've gone on and done.

And actually, if you're going to beat Spain, Nick, you need all of those qualities and you have to defend brilliantly, right?

They did in this game.

I thought they defended absolutely brilliantly, but almost all of it.

They reclosed the spaces.

They got into them.

They were aggressive.

They were positioning very astute.

And I want to say a word for Jess Carter.

Carter, actually.

We spoke a lot earlier in the week, a very important discussion about

the awful situation she'd experienced earlier in the tournament.

And I think think a lot of people, including some people quite close to the camp who I spoke to, were quite surprised that she was brought back in yesterday.

Not because of what had happened earlier in the week, but just because

there wasn't an obvious necessity that she came back in.

But she was fantastic.

I thought she blocked, she headed, she harried.

She stepped out quite bravely a few times to win stuff and closed those half spaces in front of the defence that Spain's thriving.

And I thought she was really, really key to what happened there.

Lucy Bruns, I mean, we talk about her a lot, but you know, I was sat there after we came watching her limping heavily around,

and we now know that she's gone through the tournament with, I think it was a fractured tibia.

Um, I think I'm ridiculous, that's basically a broken leg, right?

That is playing a whole tournament with a broken leg, it's just ludicrous.

It's it's crazy, and I mean, we all know that her middle name is tough.

I think we can probably think of a few stronger epithets than that because, I mean, amazing.

But it was just such a disciplined mirror effort.

And I think, you know, people will say

the way Spain play, they were dominant for a lot of the game.

Maybe they should have put it to bed.

They had a lot of little half chances rather than clear chances, I would say.

But when a team that you're up against is like good.

a lot of the joy and the skill of it is in adapting and playing in a way that maybe you might not want to play ideally and making it work that way.

And England did it and Vegman did it.

And tactically, I think they were spot on.

And they exploited Spain with the equalizer as well at a time when

Spain had been in total control, I think, for half an hour after they scored.

It was pass, pass, pass.

But maybe they weren't turning the screw.

And maybe it was getting...

I hesitate to say too easy.

That's a bit of a get out, but it was looking like they were in very comfortable control.

and then they switched off that a little bit letting them play through the fairs I think it was a move from a back that Hamilton started again actually two or three passes and and just for the clinical ball from Kelly lovely arcing header by Russo like the neck muscle was on that yeah and just the way they took their chance when it came um having dug in and held the line so resolutely it was fantastic going back to just carter nick what i found really a i was quite surprised to see her start but if you listen to all the pundits, obviously, who are coaches themselves or players, they all said she was exactly the right person for this game.

And I thought there was not one moment where she lapsed in concentration.

And the biggest problem that England had had, once Serena Wiegman had switched Alex Greenwood to left back and Jess to left centre half, the gap between them was always massive.

And that was where teams were exploiting them.

But Georgia Stanway played a much more defensive defensive game against Spain.

She wasn't doing her usual drive, you know, try and shoot from distance as much as possible.

She was slotting in

that space between the two.

And it made a massive difference because Spain just couldn't then get through it.

Look, England have won the Euros, and we'll talk about it a bit more in part two.

Hi, Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the Remarkable Paper pro.

We already know that remarkable is the leader in the paper tablet category.

Digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper but with the power of modern technology.

But there's something new and exciting.

The remarkable paper pro move.

Remarkable, a brand name and an adjective, man.

Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet.

It holds all your notes, to-dos and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket.

Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out out of the office.

Like maybe a football journalist, Barry.

Although not like you.

A proper football journalist, man.

Exactly.

Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out.

This paper tablet doesn't.

It'll never beat or buzz to try and grab your attention, so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you.

It has a display that looks, feels, and even sounds like paper.

Think and work like a writer, not a texter.

And the battery performance is amazing.

No worries about running out of power before the end of extra time.

The remarkable Paper Pro move can keep going for up to two weeks.

And if you do need to recharge, you can go from naught to 90% in less than 45 minutes, Barry.

Fantastic.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

We're doing a live show on the 11th of September at the Troxy in London.

Barry and I were looking at the tickets, you know, look, we went onto the Troxy website, and either it's selling very well or it's not selling at all because we couldn't work out if grey meant sold or not.

But we think it's selling well.

So get your tickets before you'll be disappointed.

Theguardian.com/slash football weekly live.

We've already had one ideas meeting, which, given it's over a month away, is more advanced than we normally are.

And we would love to see you.

So, yeah, theguardian.com/slash football weekly live.

Seb, I mean, there are so many people we need to talk about.

Do you know, we're talking about the goal there, and it was one of the only times where Kira Walsh got space because she was so much, and I still think she might be England's best player, even though she hasn't been mentioned sort of at all all tournament.

She's so comfortable on the ball, her decision-making is so good, and it must be so frustrating when you're that player that Spain recognized you're the one to stop, and other teams have done it that you so rarely get the opportunity to have a ball with like

a second of space and time.

It's a situation she's been in for years for England from the moment people realise that she was the player that starts England's attacks from the midfield.

And she's actually had a lot of criticism in this competition for her

perceived ability, difficulty getting around the pitch, the physicality, people suggesting that the game's moved on a little bit for her.

She's at a difficult time really, leaving Barcelona, going to Chelsea.

People are questioning the moves, knowing that Spain players know her inside out, have trained with her, played with her, and putting her under pressure.

And, you know, Faye mentioned Georgia Stanway doing more defensive role.

That's a big part of it because England's midfield has had massive spaces in it for a lot of the tournament.

Because Serena Wiegman, after the France game, she felt that there weren't enough runs from midfield, and

she addressed it in the Netherlands game, and it worked so well.

you know ella toon was able to make runs in behind that couldn't be tracked but england did become a side who were slightly bypassing the midfield in many ways getting the ball forward quickly and the midfielders as far as the tournament was concerned was looking out of the picture for the praise but i thought as the game went on she she got stronger and this is the mentality of these england players it's it's almost as if they

They have switched something on and they decide, they know, we've been here before.

We've won this competition.

we are winners and we're going to take this deep and we're going to make this difficult for you and i one telling moment i think was what i say moments during extra time patri guiharo's one of the best players in the world and and really should be in the running for the ballon d'aw but she was getting very irritated i was watching her she was going into a bit of a mood really during the game angry scowled looks and i think england would have noticed that and and there's mentalities in the english side that if they see an opposition player getting rattled, they're like, right, we're on this.

We've got them.

We've got them.

And there was a lot of that going on.

And

that's the moment I thought, oh, hold on, England have turned this a bit.

But, you know, Spain made subs of their own, which worked and didn't work for them ultimately.

But yeah,

to bring around now to Kira, she is a unique player in English football.

And that's part of it is that people look at her.

She's in the spotlight.

She was a player of the final in 2022.

And she is somebody that when she's gone, England will think, you know, we miss a player like that.

When Russo equalized Faye, I was slightly disappointed because I thought, oh, we're not going to get any Ajamang.

You know, this is like, we need to be 1-0 down.

At 1-0 down, I was like, okay, this is all set up perfectly for another last 10 minutes.

She did come on.

I thought she played okay.

She didn't have like the massive impact that she had in previous games, but it's an amazing story.

Like, you could see when she was, you know, dancing forward to pick up young player of the tournament like how happy she was.

Of course he's happy, but but what an impact for her in this tournament?

Oh, I mean a star is born except she was born 19 years ago and lots of people have known her talent for quite a long time.

She was the wild card pick essentially for Serena Viegman.

People weren't expecting her to have this rise this quickly.

And we've known about her talent for

a while now, but she hasn't shone on a stage like this.

And I think most of us didn't really expect her to get any minutes coming into the game which again just shows what we know doesn't it because Serena Wiegman knows when a player can come in and make the kind of impact that Michelle Adjumang was was able to make what I loved about it as well is what a popular player she is within the group and that the group she's clearly quite a humble character quite quiet, plays piano in her room,

had her piano shipped over for the tournament

and you know likes likes her own space but the players all wanted her to take the accolades after that Italy game she was pushed forward by Alex Greenwood and I'm trying to think who else Beth Mead I think it was pushing her towards the crowd to say no no no take these plaudits this is for you this is amazing and you could tell that actually she started to embrace it when we got into the final and yeah she had an okay game but she was there to cause a little bit of chaos which which she did I mean it would have been a remarkable story if she'd have then gone on and perhaps scored the winner as you know because we've seen what she's done in the tournament so far up till the final you know three goals in in four england caps i think uh you know she scored a goal every 33 minutes of the time she's been on the pitch that's a phenomenal kind of form but just almost watching her grow in the tournament like that that's something that an old person perhaps would say yeah that you know you see someone come of age don't you in a tournament like that and i feel like she has yeah i mean it does take some real confidence though to say is there anything you want to bring actually

you couldn't just bring up bring my piano is that all right like like if every player says can i bring a piano aren't we totally fucked um anyway nick um i just wanted to um to add very quickly on adjain that i was i was um i was sat after the game in in the front row of the the test box and as as you guys will know you're often right behind a lot of the players friends and family who were all waiting behind for a good hour hour and a half celebrating a lot of the players coming in into the stands to see their family.

I've handed Lorin Hemp's dad a bottle of water, so we all know who won the Euros, really.

But the Adjamang family

were just

down to my left of me.

And there was a lovely moment.

It was way after the end when she came in with her trophy and celebrated with them.

And I don't know who each individual was, whether it's brothers, cousins, it was obviously parents, everything, but the sheer joy and delight and just drinking it all in as she came in and showed it to them was just absolutely it was an absolute picture anyway it was just every everything that winning a tournament especially at the age and with a context that Faye has just just talked about it's everything that it should encapsulate and and this you have to remember is is a player who and and this is probably a separate discussion or a later on discussion about making sure that

the next generation get enough opportunities at big clubs and and in the WSO she's not played much football.

She didn't even start many games at all for Brighton on loan last season.

But she's come in, had this incredible impact, probably played a bit longer last night than would have been ideal for her.

And I think she got a bit of a rough deal from the referee, from the referee Fleppard as well,

who seemed to sort of thought, oh, this fairly tall girl is coming on.

We're going to pull her up for everything.

But she handled it superbly.

And just, yeah, the sheer joy and celebration with the family at the end, like, how could she have expected to be in that position a year ago three months ago like three weeks ago just incredible she does a very good big number nine that can't be a bowel ref face as well you know sort of laughing astonishment but i thought i thought she did get some i thought stephanie frappau was a little bit sort of bought into the without going all cliche the spanish just hurling themselves all over the place come the end of the game sev is there anyone we've I'm trying to think of players that we haven't really talked about, Lauren Hempelot or Leah Williamson or Alex Greenwood.

So I think, you know, know, they've all won this thing, Grace Clinton, Neve Charles.

They all deserve at least a mention, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Should I go through them quickly then?

Really, really quickly.

Once you haven't mentioned, Leah Williamson, I go back to one of the big blocks she made in the Sweden game.

Her long passing was excellent.

I think she was up there in the tournament, maybe the leader by some margin for accurate long passes, which when you look at the tactical framework, was so key.

She had an injury issue, but came back desperate to start in the final after her injury pass.

I think Alex Greenwood having to change positions, a player who won her 100th cap during the competition as well.

A player who's been part of all of these squads of England on this amazing run over every major tournament after 2013 of reaching the semi-final at least, which is extraordinary consistency, her and Lucy Bronze.

Georgia Stanway, along with Hemp, along with Greenwood and James, missing large parts of last season with injury.

Obviously, hearing that Lucy Bronze had an injury in the tournament, you think there's a walking wounded England team.

Aggie Beaver-Jones, and other young players impressed in recent months hat-trick at Wembley before the tournament scored in this competition but also we go we we've said this about squads as well when you have people who are know they're not going to be involved really but are great to have in the camp and I think you know Vibemoy and the Tissier

they were delighted delighted to pick up medals i mean i saw um the bomoy before the tournament um and i i thought she wasn't going to make it just based off her

expression.

But obviously what happened with Millie Bright pulling out gave her the chance to be in the squad ultimately.

And because it's a team game, everybody has to play their part, has to be in the picture.

You know, Ella Toon coming in in the second game as well.

Esme Morgan.

Don't forget about Esme Morgan.

Esme Morgan, exactly.

Coming in in the semifinal, starting a semifinal and not looking out of place whatsoever, having not really expected to be in the mix.

Now, I'm missing somebody.

Grace Clinton, still a young midfielder, who probably didn't get as many minutes as she would have liked, likewise with Jess Park as well, but they're all part of this lioness's picture.

Who am I missing?

Come on.

Beth Mead.

Did you give Mead a shout there?

I mentioned that she pushed Michelle Adaman forward, but she was, she's been brilliant, Beth Mead, because she's also had to, having started,

you know, she's also had to effectively be a bit part player.

But as again, I go back to my point earlier.

I don't think you can be a bit part player in football nowadays.

It is the collective, isn't it?

I mean, you haven't seen me from Hellburn Old Boy, so I guarantee you

absolutely can.

Niamh Charles, yeah, Neve Charles.

Okay, well, she's her header away at the back post.

Gotta say, it was a great, almost perfect answer that says,

Nick, was Spain the best team in this tournament?

I mean, they weren't the team that won, so we'd have to say no.

But

I mean, look, they score play and are capable of a level of football that no one else,

not England, not Germany, not any of the other leading rights, are capable of.

I think they will look back and they were clearly looking back at full time.

They were stood there motionless with hands on hips and arms folded.

They were looking back and think they should have won that game and put it to bed.

yesterday.

I mean, a lot of the England players, I mean, going back quickly to England's heroism, like in the last 15 minutes, half that team could barely run and they still held out.

It was that gutsy.

Yeah, Spain are capable of

a level that nobody else can match.

And I think

it's more that other teams now have to adapt the way they play, as I was saying before, in order to combat them.

I don't think it's end of the nearest for Spain.

I don't think anyone can come close to them in terms of the fluidity and the patterns and the moves that they make and the sheer technical quality and depth they can call upon.

What other countries have that maybe they

don't have and I think what England has is maybe the level of drive and commitment to the sport and the passion and the infrastructure and the whole network surrounding the team that maybe can give it those extra intangibles and five and ten percent, which I know sounds quite abstract, but I think is there.

And I think England has that now.

Also,

I mean, we can come to her, but I think one person we haven't really mentioned yet that Spain don't have is Serena Viegman.

Yes.

You spoil the top of part three, Nick, but carry on.

Apologies.

In that case, I'm going to mention the Spain manager at Monster Tommy, who, to be fair, I'm not digging out at all because her team is fantastic.

But I was watching her

congratulate Riegman at the end and thinking, maybe just at this point, they don't have a Serena Viegman in charge.

charge, and maybe that was what made the difference.

And is that a good enough segue for you?

Not bad at all.

Seb, you wanted to come in before we end part two.

I think Spain are

the greatest boxer with one hand tied behind their back.

And I heard some people praising the Spanish system and the Spanish setup and success, but no,

this is against it completely.

They have had to, what they've had to do to get to this point, it's almost the individual players' love of

the sport itself that keeps them going in the backdrop.

The FA have not supported them in the way that they should.

The Spanish football culture hasn't supported them in the way it should.

I remember in the press before the final, a journalist asked,

How can you sell this final to the Spanish public?

It's like, what do you need to sell it for?

They're the world champions.

They're a standout side.

They've scored loads of goals.

They've got the best players in the world.

And yet they have to fight against that.

And I think Barcelona

have been the key to it, really.

I mean,

they make up the vast majority of the squad, and that cohesion and everything is built into that.

And they've been the trigger, which is ironic, of course, because so many in that part of the world don't consider themselves Spanish.

So it's quite

there are players, there is a tinge of sadness to it.

You know, if you're a neutral watching as well, you would have wanted Spain to win.

A lot of people would have done because of players in that squad who weren't part of the last World Cup, not because of injury.

Yeah.

You know, frozen out effectively.

And that's why, you know, in Monte Tomé as well, there are many who don't really warm to her in the squad either because they see her as part of that previous regime.

And that's the thing about it.

If Spain were to properly back their women's team, I mean, they could go on an unprecedented domination of the sport because technical and almost brought up raised football culture point of view, I think they're almost unmatched in the world.

Well, while we're still in Spain, Freddy, the cruelest part of the night I felt was at the end when they've set up a podium and the England players are sort of in a kind of a guard of honor, kind of still not really holding in their celebrations.

I don't blame them.

And then Bon Matie is named player of the tournament and

she has to walk

to walk through the England players who are being very sporting and applauding her, but are still inwardly and slightly outwardly whooping.

And

it must have felt for Bon Matie after putting in the levels that she has put in in the last few weeks with all the context of having meningitis before the tournament.

I was watching her thinking, that walk has got to feel a million miles long.

And then she had to pose for the obligatory photos with and with a trophy and she could not crack a smile.

It was absolute grim.

And I must admit, well, obviously, we're all delighted with the outcome.

On yesterday, my heart went out to her there because I thought nobody really could have put more in to the last three weeks than Aitana Bonmatti.

And that walk must have just been the bleakest 30 seconds of her career.

But she'll be back.

Like,

she's an absolute winner and an absolute superstar.

You're listening to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Back in a second.

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Max here.

Barry's here, too.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Slightly surprised that none of you have brought up Serena Viegman yet

in the first half hour.

I mean, look, three Euros on the bounce for her.

I mean, five major tournament finals in a row.

It is, Faye, frankly, ridiculous.

It is, but she's ridiculous.

She just...

What I found really interesting this tournament is again, you know, I go back to the point of we love to tear people down.

People have been trying to find holes in Serena Viegman, you know, criticising her for timings of substitutions.

How can you do that when the substitutions then come on and make the impact she's brought them on to do?

And then they go ahead and they go and win against the odds.

The Euro 2025 second European championship in a row.

I mean, you know, she has a winning mentality, but she also knows how to create a team.

And she's very honest.

And lots of people don't like that honesty.

But if they don't like that honesty, then they step away, as we've seen before.

You know, it happened to Steph Horton ahead of Euro 2022, devastated for her, but, you know, the choice was made and then she articulated it to the player.

You know, we all work in the media.

The last thing on earth that you ever want is for somebody just not to tell you and then it just happens.

You know, she's very, very honest with her players.

We saw it when she was at the Netherlands and it works.

It might sting at the time, but it actually does work.

Same coming in when we saw the big names deciding to step away leading into this tournament.

It's going to be really interesting to see what changes going forward because her number two I am viewing she credits with so much of the way the Lionesses play and has been with her for ages.

He's now going on to manage the Netherlands himself.

So that change in backroom staff is going to be a really interesting shift.

But, you know, she has this contract till 2027.

She wants the World Cup.

That's the one trophy that she does not have.

She's a serial Euros winner, but she wants the World Cup.

And she's been to the final twice now and not won it.

So 2027 is her goal.

And I'll tell you what, I wouldn't put it past her to

go and win that if everything goes according to plan, because she is that special ingredient that England have.

And you have to credit the FA for going and finding her and bringing her here.

You know, again, under criticism, because, you know,

in an an ideal world, I think as England fans, you would prefer the England national team to be managed by an English coach.

But at the same time, if you know that we don't quite have those coaches ready to take that

mantle on, then finding one of the best out there, which she absolutely is, is the next thing that you go and do.

And they did.

Is she as good as Phil Neville, though?

Like, managerly.

You couldn't finish that sentence.

Yeah, what impresses you the most, Seb, about her?

She's the perfect manager.

When you think of any what makes managers great, and you give different reasons: motivation, tactics,

personal

interaction with players, the interaction with the media, and the interaction with the FA, they're all different skills needed.

And she nails all of them.

I remember after the World Cup final in 2019,

FIFA did a video with the two coaches,

Jill Elisand and Serena Viedman for the final and I remember watching that and thinking

the way she was analyzing the game talking about I was learning from her analysis of the game and her real frank analysis she's able to say she knew she looks at the limitations as well she knows where her the problems are in her side and she tries to counter them in a way rather than sugarcoat it or not give these things away she's open with her analysis and she's always ahead of the game.

She speaks, she's always talking about her relationship with the FA.

She speaks about the, you know, I mentioned it on the previous pod about

the youth system, the link up St.

George's Park.

She's confident in that.

She's with the media, she answers questions.

There's actually quite a funny, a few funny moments.

When she's in the press conferences, I think she's made the concerted effort to smile during the press conferences when people are asking questions because I think maybe, again, she's aware of these things, the emotional intelligence thing I don't want to have that resting face where people accuse me of not listening the Danny Murphy the Danny Murphy resting resting go away face but there was there was a German reporter asked a question and the switch up on her face was so Dutch it told you a lot about Dutch-German relations in football because she had this German reporter ask her a question and she went from this huge smile to the straightest face almost like what do you want what are you doing here i think and i think she buys into that humor she she almost during press conferences she'll say you know i want um if, if it's not in the question's not in English, she'll sort of rebuff it a bit because she feels that, you know, that's how English people also behave.

It's like everything should be in English type thing.

She's more into me.

She even, you know, to be a bit self-indulgent, but there was a nice moment where it was passed on to me that she saw me in the gantry and she was like, oh, is that the guy who

does the commentaries?

Or I've been listening in on the commentary and thinking, how's that possible?

When you're managing the team every time you're doing it.

And

she's just somebody who those little things make all the difference because then when you're when i'm commentating on a game i'm thinking you know serena cares about this stuff and so i have to be nice

one bit of flattery

she's bought you pretty easily

just absolutely succumbed to the press

that's all it takes we're all susceptible not even flattery just just just acknowledgement of existence not even flattery yeah it's a slight fear because she's she's got a hard edge as well she She clamps down on leaks of team news.

She's on this stuff.

And she's been so good with so many of the players.

And she just instilled that group mentality.

And there's always going to be, you know, not, you can't be liked by everybody, but if you're liked by most, that's, or the majority, I think you've done pretty well.

Okay, then 2027, Nick.

Unless the men win in...

the USA, Canada, and Mexico, then England would be...

So let's presume they don't.

You know, just history history suggesting.

Then, you know, this could be the first team to not only win a major tournament on foreign soil, but in another continent as well.

And it is more difficult for reasons that I suppose home advantage clearly helps, doesn't it?

But do you think when you look at that squad, there aren't how many won't be there in 2027?

What's the future looking like?

How hopeful can we be, do you think?

I think we can be hopeful for 27.

I think they can have

a real crack at it.

I think most of these players will still be around.

I think, obviously, a lot of the younger players we've talked about, less experienced players who have stepped up and become new heroes this summer, such as such as Hamilton and Andrew Meng, just to name two, will be that bit more experienced, have that bit more presence about them.

Lots of good fringe players around the squad.

I think they can really push on and have another big go at it.

I'd be more concerned maybe about the four or five years after that when I think we've got to look at what I alluded to earlier, the pathways of players coming through and how much experience at the top level players who are currently 16, 17, 18, 19 are getting.

And I wonder whether England may have a slightly fallow period or readjustment period in the later half of this decade and early part of next.

But I think for 27, this might be a perfect time where a lot of these players are coming right into their peak.

And the young players who have supplemented this journey this summer are just that bit older and better and can play an even bigger role.

So

I'm all in for 27.

I think they've got a really good chance.

I think down the line, we've got a question about the five years after that, but let's not be a spoil sport.

No, Ellen White Faye said, Oh, look, my two-year-old is watching all of this and has been inspired.

I was like, come on.

I mean, I know two-year-olds.

I'm not sure what they're inspired maybe by a yellow digger, but you know, but maybe Ellen White's two-year-old is

smarter than mine.

But that question about legacy and inspiration, that's also quite a tedious question.

and i just wonder you know how closer to how close are we at the end of a tournament to not having to ask and what does this mean for the women's game are we are we we're now at a stage where we can ask the question in a kind of meta way like that but when will i not go and what does this mean for you know english football or women's football etc when society changes so it could be a while um and and by the way my three-year-old not particularly inspired actually on the guardian women's football weekly chose poor patrol over the football also got incredibly confused because the Lions, in terms of rugby union, play in red and we've obviously been supporting the Lions.

So when he comes to sit in front of England versus Spain, he says go on the Reds.

No, no, no, not today.

Not today.

Beth, your son is more basic than Ellen White, is what we're basically saying.

Perhaps, although he did watch those,

did watch the penalties behind us, but he did get the context of, you know, being English and watching penalties.

Amazing.

It was half eight.

This was an early kickoff.

This is what we needed because we knew that

is true but to answer your to answer your question i think because there is still so much growth within the women's game that actually it's still a relevant question in many ways although it might feel frustrating it's still important because we're still catching up um and the growth has been exponential but there's still so much more to go so building on the legacy of 2022

again is going to send it up to to another level yet again.

So, I do,

I don't think you should be so hard on yourself for asking the question in the first place, is what I'm saying.

I think, you know, the legacy, what I loved about it, I go back to the answer I gave about the resilience piece.

I love the fact that it wasn't just about skill and

being the best team.

It was about mentality.

It was about

grit.

It was about getting through it.

And I think that is also different because that feeds a different narrative.

And you've still got these, you know, my niece was sitting there.

She's 18 years old.

She's like, Michelle Adjuman's the same age as me.

I'm like, yeah, pretty much.

And so that to her was like.

You've got no chance.

You're not going to make it.

I think she's realized she's not going to make it.

But she's not even into football, my niece.

And yet she thoroughly, you know, enjoyed the drama of last night.

So it's not even just people who are football fans already.

It's different

levels of fandom, I think, and different that you mentioned it right at the top, Max, in your introduction, the stories that this tournament has brought and the stories that this team have and the stories that this

Euros have, that is what, you know, continues the legacy.

We're giving a platform.

It's amazing.

So, you know, we're still at sky is the limit.

Joe says, not a question, but I'm watching the Euros final and Seb just exclaimed, peanut, in a way that made him sound like a cockney shouting peanuts, which made me laugh.

How much of a come-down, Seb, will be a 3pm Burnley Nottingham Forest game in a couple of months?

Well, I've got Birmingham Sheffield United in the first round of the Carabao Cup.

That's my comeback game for the new season.

And nothing against those two sides.

But I think St Andrews on a Tuesday or Wednesday night or whatever is, it will feel different.

But

I think that's the buzz.

It's just the buzz of football.

What I've loved about this tournament, and it has been my favorite from a commentary point of view, but mainly because England won.

But they took you from moments where you just thought, well, this is coming to nothing to

moments that will go down in history as far as England teams in tournaments.

And that joy and knowing

it's actually

rare, really, knowing that the majority of the audience, the vast majority of the audience, wants one of the teams to win, as in England, and you are on that train.

Because a lot of the time,

you have to be, you know, neutral, really, even though people might be accusing you of supporting one team over the other.

You're neutral, you're down the line, it's your professional angle.

And covering England gives you that rare chance to show a little bit of the football fan in you.

And some people disagree.

They think you should still remain neutral covering England.

I mean, I completely disagree.

I completely disagree.

Because I don't think from international football, that's what makes it so pure in a way, is that you just by just by your cultural upbringing,

you are you're just connected by default or you reject it by default.

So

I just don't think it's something that you could, I just don't, I can't really picture somebody watching the game thinking, oh, you know, don't really have an opinion on this

if they're from the UK, I mean.

I can't imagine the people in Wales and Scotland going, oh, you know, come on, England, you know.

friend of the pod, Barcel Jim, you know, who obviously has totally against the England men's team, this was the game that turned him to be totally against the England women's team as well, which I think is the greatest sign of progress.

Yes, exactly.

Matt said, This is any sport more resistant to having the best team always win than football?

And is this what makes football so great?

And I think, Nick, that is it, isn't it?

That you don't have that is why, and obviously, it's not an objective panel for people on a football podcast saying football's the best sport, but it is, and it is because you don't have to be the best to win.

And

that takes it to a level that's different to pretty much any sport.

Completely.

And I think that maybe is partly why, you know, why the way England won it has probably been quite good for the hype back home and everything.

Because if you're cruising through a tournament winning 3-0

every time, if you're winning the semi-final against Italy 4-0, that

quite a few people were predicting, it's very, very nice, but what are you talking about at work the next day?

Like where are the crowds of people in the pub watching extra time at 10.30, losing

everything

when the winning penalty goes in?

It creates those moments and that glorious uncertainty and

spontaneity is something that

you don't get in.

I think any other sport and we all agree on that.

So it's, yeah, without doubt.

But I think the way that England England did it, even if we can nitpick at most of the performances in some way, was just absolutely perfect for maintaining the momentum and hype and good feeling around the game and around the sport that we've just been talking about.

We can talk about how to play in a different way another day, but I think in terms of bringing the country together around a team and making people love them,

the agony and ecstasy, ecstasy, it's what English teams have always done.

And it was, you know, in an imperfect way, a perfect way to do it.

Faye, final word, because Seb has to catch a flight in five minutes ago.

Carry on, Faye.

We can't.

In that context, we can't then strop around saying, but we were the better team.

We can't do it.

No, we can't.

And we won't, but we still won.

So it doesn't matter.

Thanks, everybody.

Enjoyed that.

Thank you, Nick.

Thank you, Max.

Thank you, Seb.

Thank you.

Cheers, Faye.

Thanks, Max.

We're back tomorrow with a mailbag.

Barry, John Bruin, Mark Langdon.

If you have any questions, we'll go back to, you know, the transfer window and all that.

Malarkey, Football Weekly at theguardian.com.

You can send them over on Instagram or Blue Sky Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

This is The Guardian.