A famous Fulham win as FA Cup draw opens up - Football Weekly

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly penalty shootouts.

Plymouth Scaring Man City, City Reds, Soft Reds, one very hard red card, the longest VAR check of all time and another bad day for Manchester United.

All in all, a pretty entertaining FA Cup fifth round.

Fulham win on Pens at Old Trafford.

The competition's opening up for these pat on the head, so-called smaller clubs.

Bernt Leno, their hero, in the shootout.

A great win for Brighton at St.

James's Park, the eternal Danny Welbeck winning it in extra time.

Everyone looked exhausted.

A terrible day for Eddie Howe as Isaac, who was brilliant, went off injured, and Anthony Gordon slapped his way out of the Carabao Cup final.

More red missed at the Vitality.

Matthias Kunha losing the plot shortly after scoring a belter.

Bournemouth win the shootout and will sit in silence for eight minutes to commemorate the latest VAR milestone.

They needed VAR at Selhouse Park to judge whether Liam Roberts made contact with Jean-Philippe Netetta.

One of those you can watch it a thousand times and still not be completely sure.

Marco Ascencio is good at football and Preston North End do something no team has done in 57 years, score against Burnley.

There's some EFL, a great goal from Hibbs, Jan Bednarek's dog, your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Week.

On the panel today, Barry Glenn Denning.

Hello.

Hello, I really want to skip straight to Jan Bednarek's dog.

It's one of those where I've oversold it by even mentioning it.

Okay.

You know, yeah, you know, like, like, I wouldn't skip through the rest of this,

dear listener, because there's not a lot to say.

But anyway, we'll get to it.

Sanny Roger Rajana, hello.

Good morning.

Hello.

And hello, John Bruin.

Higher.

Can we do Yannick Vestergaard's dog?

Well, I mean, yes, that is.

I mean, you've spoiled the whole thing now, but that's totally right.

Let's start at Old Trafford.

Do we have to?

Look, Sanny and John, you were both there.

Fulham going through on penalties.

Sanny, do you think Fulham deserved to win that game?

For a big chunk of it, yes.

For

a lot of normal time where there was a point where they were getting really comfortable in possession, just knocking it round.

Casimiro came on in the second half, and although at some point he realised that if he just gets the ball out of his feet and plays a ball early, that would work quite well.

Otherwise, he was kind of just in between the lines, not really doing anything.

But then United did come back to it.

You know, it took a very long time for the United fans to get going.

I guess they've not had too much to sing about.

Cheetah Obi coming on kind of made a a big difference and in an extra time I think it swung the other way.

But for the longest time, yeah, I did think Fulham were the better sider.

What did you make of it, John?

United are not very good.

And Fulham

have a

well, okay.

Fulham have a plan.

Yeah, Fulham stuck to the plan.

Manchester United have a plan.

It's the same plan that they try every week.

It doesn't work.

But he still tries it every week.

And he moves players in and out.

And you mentioned Casimiro,

who

possibly did improve in his play.

He throws in Obi, and,

you know, Obi missed hurried a couple of chances that I think a more experienced striker would have gobbled up.

But you can't blame him.

You can't blame him for what had gone before.

You can't blame him for the fact that...

He hasn't mastered the Jedi ways.

Come on, let's get it out of the way.

No, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, he's very 17 years old.

He's 17 years old.

He's from Denmark,

a Nigerian extract.

This guy has just arrived in Manchester, basically.

You know,

arrives as a footballer anyway.

It was my first trip to Australia for a long time.

And it just

things haven't changed too much, but the team is worse.

That's the thing I would say.

And just things like delict, can this guy stay on his feet?

You know, every time you see him, this guy is falling over or throwing himself, and everyone is sort of off balance in the Manchester United team.

That's what it feels like.

It's just everyone is sort of leaning the wrong way when they should be, and no one's got any comfort on it.

And Bruno scored a very good goal, you know, belying the Roy King criticism.

Fulham had it a lot of it their own way.

I mean, we've got to see a lot of Adama Traore doing his special step-over move, and that's a big step-over because this guy, wow, he gets bigger every time I see him.

United struggled with him, United struggled with Fulham's command of midfield.

You'd probably say if Fulham had had a better attack, they'd have won the game quite easily.

Manchester United are not very good,

and

I'm sure we'll discuss what the meaning of all this is, but the meaning of all this is that they have the Rail Saucyadad game to save them, and otherwise it's a total blank of a season, and the misery continues.

We'll get to the misery, but it is worth saying, Baz, with the Man City caveat, and we might say it a few times in this pod, it's such an opportunity for teams like Fulham to win a trophy.

This would be Fulham's first major trophy, right?

And they are, what, you know, they've got Palace, Palace will be feeling the same, right, in the next round, and then a semi, and then you never know.

Yeah, well, uh, you've eight teams now, um, well, nine, uh, Forrest or Ipswich, who don't get to Wembley very often now just one game away from wembley preston getting to this quarterfinal you know preston never really they're just there aren't they they they don't tend to get promoted they don't tend to get relegated you know they just don't really do much of interest so they'll be very happy with a home draw against villa they'll fancy their chances and

i think

there's no reason why bournemouth shouldn't beat city at home i think bournemouth are

they have already beaten city this season and they're a really really, really good side.

So I'd give them every chance of beating City.

I actually thought this was one of Man United's better performances.

You know, it's a low bar.

That is really science.

Admittedly.

This game was fairly low on quality.

Andrea Nana, who's been getting a lot of stick recently,

much of it deserved, made some pretty decent saves, but he never really looked like saving anything in the shootout.

And I think Fulham are probably worthy winners overall.

They didn't have to be at their best to win this game either or to prevail in the tie.

I mentioned for Calvin Bassey.

I love seeing, I know we mentioned it recently when he scored the other day, someone who is so happy when they score a goal.

It's meant to generate happiness.

And there is a guy that when he scores and it doesn't happen often, he's totally delighted.

Rhys says, does being the only competent employee in a useless workforce make Bruno Fernandez the Premier League's most relatable player?

I mean, it is true, John, isn't it?

Without here, and you wonder what he is thinking.

Like, because he is, like, he never says.

I was going to say, he makes it quite clear what he thinks quite a lot of the time.

Yes, good point.

Yeah, he's angry about everything.

But even.

He doesn't have a great poker face, does he?

I would like to play cards with Rudolph Hernandez.

Ah, this heap of shit again.

Damn, cards on the table.

So here we go again, pulling you out of the mayor.

I suppose the question is not that then, what is he thinking?

It is, could you envisage him saying, I can't be bothered?

Well, he'd be entitled to, wouldn't he?

To just say,

okay, well, not entitled, entitled to say, right, I want out of this club.

I want to go somewhere where I could win trophies.

It's interesting, isn't it?

You know, you are the idol of a falling star, a collapsing empire, etc., etc.

The thing is, so

fractious as the support become online, not necessarily in the stadium.

I think in the stadium, fans still get behind the team.

I was quite impressed by that, considering how things are on and off the field.

You know,

the support continues to impress me that goes to the matches.

But

he's playing for this team, and you just think,

yeah, you must look around and think, why is no one else doing this?

And I think the Roy Keene criticism was way off beam, actually.

Remind, sorry, remind listeners.

Yeah,

well, Roy Keene on

the overlap

towards the end of the show, which had all been very good-humoured, suddenly on the subject of Bruno.

I don't think he called him directly an imposter, but there was this idea that, you know,

no fight,

which I think is way off-beam when it comes to Bruno, because there is fight in this guy.

He shows it almost every week in pulling Man United out of the Maya, however briefly that may be for.

Keene's thing is about one of the things that he doesn't close them down.

He's closing them down.

he's being a bluffer you know like he is like so his his attitude to pressing may not be what everyone else is but if you're Bruno Fernandez

maybe you don't have to do all the pressing maybe there's other players in the team that's supposed to that if you're the luxury star player that's not how it used to be and keen often sees things through his own prism doesn't he what was Roy Keene good at

closing down players?

Yeah?

Showing a lot of fights.

Bruno has gifts that Roy Keene did not have as a player.

Now, there is a

revisionist thing of Manchester United fans that say, oh, Roy Keene was a brilliant, brilliant passer and all that type of thing.

And then he was a good passer of the ball.

But I remember what Roy Keene, I used to go and watch Manchester United every week.

And a lot of the time...

Teams would play against Roy Keene and would let him have the ball all the time because he wasn't as good a passer as the other players on the team.

As everyone else.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And listen, I'm not doing down Roy Keene.

He was a fantastic player before you all-star.

He was a brilliant player.

Drive him, Roy, was the guy in front of me at United used to say, drive him, Roy, drive him, because that was his job.

Now, Bruno isn't that type of player, and that's why the criticism comes in.

But I don't think you can criticise Bruno Fernandez for his output for Manchester United.

Not at all.

I mean, I wonder, Sanny, you look at that.

The midfielder is so interesting, isn't it?

It seems like whoever they play, the other team have a better midfield.

And I did think that, you know, that was the same again.

You know, Sanderberger, Lukic, pereira as well just sort of just had control of that area spot on yeah especially sanderberger just yeah physically great and great game didn't they ogata got got hooked quite quite early in the second half that just yeah yeah the bruno thing's is weird um but everyone around bruno yeah isn't good at all um the goal again was yet another uh set piece like neither yoro or mazrai deciding to pick up Calvin Bassey at all who's by the way he's got a great um chant from the Fulham fans to the tune of Lady Gaga's Paparazzi, Calvin Bassey, which is great.

Oh, yes,

that could work.

Oh, and what was the other one?

Lukic in the middle of our pitch for Sasa Lukic.

I like that one too.

Very clever.

Very good.

And again, he had a good game as well.

Yeah, I mean,

it's very weird what's happening at United with those players.

But then, look in front.

So, early on, quite often, through balls were going to Joshua Wazerxi.

Like, he could have tried to go for them, but it's not his game, and he just lets them run.

And you're like, how is he getting this long into his time at United where people are still trying to play a channel Bolton when he's not that guy?

He's a hold-up flick-on man.

And Rasmus Hoyland got subbed again early on and doesn't offer anything at all.

So criticism of the midfield, yeah, but in front of them, he's almost non-existent.

I mean, the fact, yeah, a 17-year-old kid, six foot two kid, so to add, in Cheetah Obi can come on.

Yeah, very big.

Can come on and offer more than Rasmus Hoyland's done, who himself is only 22, kind of really puts an emphasis on where they are at.

They're completely impotent going forward, incompetent at the back, and missing in the midfield.

There you go.

It's a mess.

Xerxe, I thought, was when his shifted position actually looked quite good.

I think, I mean,

this is terrible to say, but if Xerxe played in the championship, he'd get about 40 goals a season, though, wouldn't they?

He'd be like, he'd be such a luxury player.

I mean, like, he is...

He's actually a really, really, I mean, it's actually a really, really skilled player.

He's a slow-motion Adelterapt, perhaps, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a decent touch for a big man.

It's all there, but it's, yeah.

But not at Manchester United, maybe.

Well, it's possible he could

go to another club and flourish.

It has happened before.

It's been known.

It's been known.

It's been known.

It's been known.

And well done to Burt Lenno, you know, for saving those penalties.

You know, the narrative would be different if the shootout had been different.

Let's go to St.

James's Park.

Newcastle won Brighton too.

And we could have led with this, Barrett, because this is a very entertaining game.

Batch says, is Danny Welbeck the greatest man to have ever lived?

It's a brilliant win for Brighton.

A terrible day for Newcastle, but another brilliant goal for Danny Welbeck.

Yeah, I think I would have broken my spine if I attempted to do what he did when he

adjusted position to put that ball over

Dubravka.

He's 34.

He's having...

Well, I can't remember far long enough back to know how this rates among his other best seasons, but he's been brilliant for Brighton.

There's talk of an England call-up.

I don't know if he'll get one or not.

He's 34.

He might have a better chance of getting one from Thomas Tuchel than some young up-and-comers because Tuchel's only there for the short term, one suspects, as England manager.

Yeah, he's been absolutely brilliant for Brighton this season.

I remember when we were all talking about Evan Ferguson as a potential star for the future.

He may well be a star for the future, but Welbeck is firmly ahead of him in the pecking order at Brighton.

And as you say, a really bad day for Newcastle, who have this

habit now, and it is a habit of conceding goals in the last 25, 30 minutes of games and not being able to respond.

I think they look tired.

And of course, now

Anthony Gordon got himself sent off stupidly.

There is talk that Newcastle may appeal that decision.

I don't know if it's even worth bothering with

because I can't see it being overturned.

And he's now ruled himself out of the Carabao Cup final so unnecessarily and so stupidly.

And that, you know, Newcastle are already outsiders to win that.

And they're going to be even more outsiders now that he won't be playing.

Yeah, just to confirm, because I did check just then, Evan Ferguson's on loan at West Ham, isn't he?

I was wondering how far down the pecking order at Brighton do you have to be if you're playing for West Ham.

Quite far down,

it turns out.

Yeah, I mean, that moment for Newcastle fans, for Anthony Gordon, to basically lose, sort of knock yourself out of two cup competitions,

just so putting the whistle's gone.

I mean, there's no,

you know, I'm trying to think when a straight red is kind of fair enough.

There probably isn't one, but like that is just so silly.

I watched it in the press room at Old Trafford, and we were talking about how Jimmy Greaves used to have a column in a newspaper newspaper called Wally of the Week.

Now,

there's no doubt that that's where Anthony Gordon would be headed, where Greaves is still around.

A complete head loss.

A complete...

You could see in Eddie Howe's face that just everything's just dropping away.

Oh, God.

Do you remember when you have this thing called the frivolous appeal?

Where if you challenged a ban.

And you just done it, you did it to

just for the sake of it, you would get an extra game.

Does that not happen anymore?

It doesn't happen anymore.

No, maybe Newcastle.

If Newcastle challenged that, maybe, maybe,

I mean, you know,

they probably deserve it.

I mean, if because

it was a stupid thing to do, you can't do that.

I think it's a terrible shame for Anthony Gordon, who I think has shown in moving to Newcastle what a good player he is.

has worked really,

really hard.

He did a very good interview, I think,

with Jamie Carragher, in in which he talked about how hard he'd worked on his game and

shown that he isn't just, you know, a another footballer.

There's something a bit different about him and about the way he approaches the game.

But unfortunately, he behaved like a another footballer in doing that.

It was a stupid thing to do.

Newcastle, you know, look forward to these cup finals.

They all peel down to

Newcastle.

I mean, they're already, there was this big story the other week that this time they won't be able to go into Trafalgar Square because something's on that day.

Whereas normally, yeah, yeah, yeah, because

normally they just fill Trafalgar Square.

There are other places to go in London other than Trafalgar Square, lads, but you know, but it's, and they get so excited about cup finals, you know, because they don't go to many, and there's that footage, isn't there, of 1970,

I think it's 1976 when they lose to Manchester City in the League Cup final, they come back to an open top bus parade

because, you know, thank well done, lads, to get into the final.

Yeah, that spirit still is there within Newcastle.

I'm not patronising Newcastle, I think that's, you know, that's what the cup is for, is for teams to want to win in either cup.

And Anthony Gordon has probably made sure that that might not happen.

It would be one hell of a shock if they won the Carabelle Cup without Anthony Gordon.

Yeah, silly boy.

Yeah, and like Sanny, also, like Isak came off.

I don't know if it's precaution or injury.

Obviously, Barry last pod was saying he he might be ruled out of the final before he started and played brilliantly in this game

so as Mel says I don't know how reliable Barry's source is but if I mean if he is missing as well for that Caribou Cup final that's it's such a shame for that game isn't it because you you want it to be competitive you never know they could do something I thought and Isaac was so unlucky in this game

yeah he could have scored a one very early on as well couldn't he uh and yeah without him I don't think he got a chance really you know he's what 19 goals 24 in the Premier League this season.

Like, everything's coming through him.

Just the way he's able to not only bring other players in, but also as well, like, his finishing confidence the first time, just doing it quickly, has really punished teams this season.

So, yeah, without him, I don't think Newcastle will have a chance at all.

So, they've got to somehow protect him.

And I hope the league form doesn't suffer if they have to wrap him up in cotton wool.

If any of Barry's sources say he might be have another injury upcoming, who knows?

Are you clairvoyant with them?

Eddie Howe didn't seem particularly perturbed after the game, and I think took him off as a precautionary.

Looks like Lewis Hall may well miss

the care about cup final.

He's really good.

Botman is touching goals, so yeah, that's not great news.

There was a point in the

second half when I just looked at Newcastle, they look absolutely knackered.

And I did wonder, I mean, obviously, they've been in a lot of cup competitions, but that's not a good sign at this this point in the season.

That there was just the game is there to be won, and there was no one there to chase.

And I thought,

you know, there are questions, aren't there, over how Eddie prepares the team, you know, how he, you know, the red zones and all that type of thing that various managers have talked about,

how aware of those he is.

Slightly concerning for Newcastle because they've got a top five place they could play for.

You know, if he comes back in, it's doable.

It's there to be taken.

They've got a really, a really thin squad, haven't they?

A really thin squad.

And as soon as you take any of those up, I mean, like Will Asula was on the bench, and he was pretty anonymous for Sheffield United last season, let alone for Newcastle.

Right, right.

Very quickly, you lose equality.

Yeah, Fabian Scher, I mean, that also changes, doesn't it?

He was so just a tiny bit offside, a bit of semi-automated offside for us in injury time.

I felt for Anthony Taylor.

Yeah, producer Joel saying this, you know, on his mic, because it sort of sounded like he was going out in and and out of signal on a tunnel.

He's on a train.

Or as my new colleague, David O'Doherty would say, you just sit on a train staring at your phone, going 5G, 4G, 3G, E, emergency calls only,

3G, 4G, 5G, up and down again.

You just couldn't hear everything he was saying.

Barry, what do we think about Minti refusing to celebrate against his former club?

I honestly presumed he'd been there since the age of seven.

Such was the level of his apology.

No appearances.

His entire season at Newcastle was out on loan at Fire Nord.

I think.

I don't really care whether he celebrates or not.

It does seem odd.

It was a good goal.

I liked the way he opened his body and then pulled the ball inside the near post.

I think he got lucky.

I think he got a lot of luck.

It does take a little deflection off Trippia, that's correct.

But

yeah, look, I don't know what his relationship is with various people behind the scenes at Newcastle or whatever, but the whole, you know,

I'd be going full Calvin Bassey, if I'm honest.

But

he just bloody loves that, he bloody loves their lone supervisor at Econso.

Yeah, so the guy that used to call him once a week and say, how's things going?

Like, they really got on very well.

So, no need to disrespect him.

Ryan says this, John.

Should red cards carry over to other competitions?

It's not an illegitimate point.

That says if you get sent off in a losing game in the fifth round of the FA Cup, if you're then out for the next

season's season's third, fourth, fifth round, that seems a long way away.

Yeah, but by the same token, does see, I don't know how I feel about, you know, you get sent off here and you can't play in that competition.

Yeah, but I mean, we're going to talk about an incident at Millwall, and it would look very weird if he got sent to that goalkeeper, got sent off.

Yeah, and then was able to play next week for Millwall.

I mean, yeah, and actually, I suppose Millwall, Millwall might lose the next FA Cup third round, and then he's suspended for another two games in like 2020.

Yeah.

That did used to be the case, I think, but they rationalised it and made it more sensible.

But yeah, it's true, isn't it?

You get to this point in the season when cup finals and

vital league matches start appearing, and then

suspensions, and that's when

the disciplinary tightrope, I believe it's called in cliche football cliché's language.

Well, well, more of that, because I mean, every game had a red card as far as I can tell.

But we'll start part two at the vitality.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So, Bournemouth are through.

They beat Wolves 5-4 on penalties.

Evan Nielsen scoring on his comeback for Bournemouth.

Cunha scoring an absolute unbelievable goal and then getting sent off.

And remember where we were, Barry?

A whole eight minutes of a VAR check.

Both sets of fans chanting words to the effect of this isn't football.

And

that's a long time to wait.

They couldn't use semi-automated off-side because of congestion in the penalty area, by all accounts.

Yeah,

it was ridiculous, particularly in a weekend where it was flagged up that semi-automated offside would be employed to make sure these decisions are made quickly.

But then it turned out semi-automated off-site

doesn't function so well in a congested penalty area.

And seven minutes is just, it's too long.

It's

the fans, both sets of fans were angry.

You could

see the ref was cringing and felt compelled to go over to explain to both sets of both benches what was going on.

And

it's not good enough, really.

The goal was eventually ruled out.

After the game, Andy Irreola said that only one team tried to win the game, and I think he's probably right.

Bournemouth were vastly superior.

They had

two goals ruled out, had the lion's share of the chances.

Sam Johnson had to make a lot of saves for Wolves.

And

I think Bournemouth deserved to go through ultimately.

And Matthias Kuna.

Another clown show.

Yeah.

I mean, it wasn't the red mist.

It was like a sort of, it was like a thick curtain of red fog, wasn't it?

Socrates says, if Michael Douglas' character from the movie Falling Down was a footballer, would it be Matthias Kunha?

After spectacles and mullets, what's next?

Did he pull the hair of the mu?

What did he do?

I thought it was just a sort of few punches there, Sunny.

I'm not sure.

Yeah, fair play to whoever.

I can't remember who was getting head-butted at that point, but but they didn't go down or anything, they just pointed to the head like they'd been ref, did you see that?

Which is quite kind of schoolboy stuff.

Coonha, I mean, look, the easy one is to say it's part of his game, isn't it?

But it's not part of his game.

It really isn't part of his game.

Unless the part of the game is like that Wayne Rooney volley against Newcastle where he was angry at the ref and a minute later, well, a second later, he smashes it in.

But he's not playing angry, is he?

He's a genius, and then you just give him a little tap or a push or a shove and he goes absolutely mad.

I mean, again, that one ended with him in a melee off the pitch, refusing to go down the tunnel.

Like we've been here before.

And it puts Wolves in a real difficult situation now because he's going to be gone for, I don't know how long now.

It's one of those, if he was like a Sunday League player, he'd have a letter from the County FA, would he?

With a really long ban.

But I don't know whether the.

But it's a minimum of four games and

possibly more.

And he, yeah, it's a great result for Ipswich, however, they're going to on tonight against Nottingham Forest.

I think Four Games takes it to Ipswich in terms of his suspension.

Yeah.

Wolves are famously welcoming of disciplinary decisions, aren't they?

After,

you know, if you ever attend Mullenew

in fact the the week before I went to funny enough Bournemouth Wolves and when a Bournemouth player, Zaboni, was being sent off,

the Wolves fans were still singing Fuck VAR, despite the fact that VAR had weighed in their favour.

So, yeah, it's not going to go down well, but really, they have only one person to blame.

Yeah, and their goal is his goal is one of those goals which is look around and think, none of you lot are going to do anything, so I'll just score.

He could be their leticier, couldn't he?

He is, you know, if you if you're talking teams towards the bottom having one genius that is going to haul his team out, he's the letitier of this season's

relegation battle, such as it is.

He's so far ahead of the other players that those other teams have got, except he can't play because he's a Wally.

I suppose there is a question about his future, and if you are one of the top clubs, because he could play for any of the teams, I think.

But would you take a second and go,

that is a, you know, you just...

Maybe it's different if you're playing for a bigger club, not because of conspiracies, because

you're just less often in, you're more, you're winning more often.

You're sort of less, it's less likely to be like angry about the world.

I don't know.

You're taking a Howard Wilkinson Cantona style gamble, aren't you?

Where it's like you've watched this guy get sent off in France and think, all right, I'll take him and see how we go.

And then, you know, well, if that happens, then

no one in the Premier League doubts his class.

I mean, as I said, the week before, Bournemouth couldn't take the ball off him.

He was like a defensive shield because he was so good.

And that's Bournemouth, who, while the Masters are taking the ball off, is a brilliant player.

That goal was absolutely amazing.

And he does it all the time.

And then he does that.

Yeah, I mean, the thing is, Sannya, and Baz alluded to it.

We're all looking as neutrals for just someone else to win the FA Cup.

And actually,

Bournemouth away is the hardest possible draw.

Perhaps Villa.

But Bournemouth have something over City.

City will probably still be favourites.

They'll probably still win.

But in terms of trying to get them knocked out, this is a really good draw for all the teams left in yeah it is uh bournemouth or or

something else i mean 31 efforts they had on goal against wolves i mean it was just all them wasn't it um and yeah i think anyone

facing him's going to have real issues i mean that's that's the short version isn't it i mean what was it was it barney said the best team in the world is bournemouth yeah i mean it's a good thought experiment how far they would go in the Champions League.

I guess they've got the opportunity to see what they can do in the FA Cup to prove him right, actually.

What prescient comment that would be.

And by the way, before we finish on this, just a quick shout out to the erstwhile presenter of Guardian Football Weekly, Robin Cowan, who in the match of the day commentary on the VAR said, we've all got homes to go to, which I thought was a good line on that delay.

And I know as well, she put on her Instagram that she was looked after very well with her new baby whilst commentating.

Not with baby alongside, but looks after there.

So she's doing well, and I hope she did get home okay.

So she only presents football weekly with baby on her knee.

He wasn't in the commentary box with her.

He was

down there, he was there.

So, you know, that is a good, that is a very positive thing, actually, you know, isn't it?

That,

you know, football clubs, you couldn't think, I don't know, five years ago, ten years ago, however many years ago, the thought of a female commentator, anyone working at clubs, saying, Can I bring my baby?

And will that be okay?

And people in the game would have said, Yeah, would have laughed at you.

So, like, that is progress, everybody.

Was he was he in that little glass box, all the injured Bournemouth players

a few weeks ago.

It

doubles up as a crash.

Yeah, the Bournemouth players had to look after him.

Let's go to Southhurst Park.

They're Palace 3, Millwall 1.

Chris says, was Michael Oliver waiting on intervention of VAR or the CPS?

Yeah, Millwall keeper Liam Roberts sent him after eight minutes for a totally reckless foul on Jean-Philippe Matetta.

His foot is

so high.

I mean, it could have been incredibly serious.

Matetta was treated on the pitch, given oxygen.

He had 25 stitches behind his ear.

He said on social media,

I'm doing well.

I hope to be back very soon and stronger than ever.

Well done, guys, for a great job today.

Set to have an operation on that.

And I suppose,

John,

this is a great example that intent doesn't matter.

I don't think anyone thinks Liam Roberts meant to do it.

I think it's not Schumacher

on Batistan, but it is a terrible, terrible challenge.

There's no doubt about that.

The only thing I would say about the intent is

it's Crystal Palace Millwall.

Everyone's fired up.

I'm not saying that you set out to do him, but there's an extra bit of needle there, isn't there?

You know, the atmosphere.

Maybe he got carried away.

Maybe he got carried away.

We've seen this before, where goalkeepers

get the chance, you know, you just come out and overdo it.

And often, actually, do get away with it.

Like, if he just plays a ball there and doesn't really get Mateta, it's probably not a foul, even though his foot is that high.

It was not the best thing to do in that movie.

Oh, definitely.

Like, it's not,

yeah, he wouldn't be coached to do that, would he?

It completely overshadowed the game.

I mean, you know, you had this half-time interview with Steve Parrish, Kelly Summers did on the BBC.

But Steve Parrish, you know, poor Kelly Summers is trying to say, well, what about the future of Palace?

You know, things are going well.

what about that challenge?

And it was like this sort of monologue about the challenge, and I've never seen anything worse than that, and all that.

And it just, and you thought, well, yeah, because all anyone, you know,

it'll be in 10 years' time, it was like, you know, memory lane.

Here's the foul done by the Millwall Government, because it is, it is,

it will live in football lore like the Tony Schumacher one.

I can't.

The game itself didn't really matter once that incident had happened because we're all worried about what happened to Matessa.

Thankfully, he's going to be okay.

We think, and then we think about what's going to happen to the goalkeeper.

You've got Alex Neil somehow having to,

you know, put some element of a positive light on it.

I'm not sure he was particularly successful in that.

Oh dear.

And, you know, you've got Millwall and this club with this reputation

that a reputation that they revel in, and then that happens, and you think, oh dear.

Jimbo says, why have I seen more condemnation of Michael Oliver's failure to immediately send off

Roberts than of Roberts himself who committed the foul?

I get that Oliver should have seen it, but it seems people hold rest to higher standards than players who commit fouls.

Why is this?

What do you think, Barry?

It's an interesting question.

I don't think Liam Roberts meant to hurt Matetta.

I think he ran out of his box and he panicked and he went for the the ball.

He shouldn't have.

It was an undeniable act of violence, very reckless, very stupid.

I would like to think Leem Roberts was very concerned about Matetta's welfare once he sort of retired to the dressing room and inquired after it.

Yeah, it was bad.

He could have done him serious, serious harm.

And I think he has been criticised and he deserves criticism.

Michael Oliver has also been criticised and he deserves criticism, I suppose, because

I'm not a fan.

Some people think refs should have to come out and explain contentious decisions after games, and I think that would be a terrible idea.

But I'm genuinely curious to know why Michael Oliver didn't immediately produce the red card and had to go to the monitor to to decide to send off Roberts.

Because he had a very good view of it.

Is it a case that he was just, you know, I'm going to send him off, but I'll just check just in case, you know, to make sure what I think I saw happened, happened.

Part of me thinks Michael Oliver, he's not been great recently, and I think maybe he's just at a stage where he's second-guessing every single big decision he has to make.

Well, Barry, I know you're not a big fan of Alex Neal, but what I did think at post-match, he didn't show any humanity at all when he was asked about the challenge.

He was so bullish and defending Roberts, it really came across the exact opposite way.

Like, you know,

there's a player so hurt he's had to go to hospital, you know, someone who's lit up the Premier League, and he's like, oh, it's not the worst challenge ever.

Like, you know,

you can defend your goalie without diminishing how bad something is and how poorly someone's been hurt.

And I think Alex Neal really didn't do himself any favours then.

Well, Alex Neal is a weird one insofar as he's not a particularly good or sought-after manager.

he's at Millwall.

He's not the first Millwall manager, and he won't be the last to refuse to comment on the bad behaviour of the more knuckle-headed elements of Millwall support.

And

yeah, so

I wouldn't expect much better from him, to be honest.

The let him die chance from the Millwall fans when Matsetta is clearly stricken, does Millwall no favours.

The good thing about the Michael Oliver thing is Barney, in our

points from the weekend thing that we run on a Monday in The Guardian, suggests that Michael Oliver deliberately leaned on VAR, knowing that it would make the decision for him and chooses.

I think it's fairly on his side, saying that Oliver will have been aware what it was, and you know, you may as well use the tech to show what had happened.

That's one way of looking at it, and I wouldn't disagree.

Barney was there

and would have been aware of

the way things went

as it happened, I suppose.

The thing is, Michael Oliver, though,

I saw Barry involved in a discussion of Michael Oliver on social media last night.

I know you get drawn into that, but the thing is, the minute Michael Oliver makes a decision, everyone brings it back to the decision Michael Oliver made against their team, and it all kicks off into this refereeing conspiracy that we have now that is

well, it's too much, really.

Let's go to Villa Park.

Cast my mind back to Friday night, Villa 2, Cardiff-Nil.

Who knew, Sanny, that elite footballer and three-times Champions League winner would make such an impact at Villa?

I mean, there was

one moment where Asensio dragged the ball out of the sky.

I think it was in the first half.

You know, it wasn't his goals.

We were just like, ah,

this is why I love this game.

It is brilliant.

And I know you've reflected before with Dan Bardell.

Who'd have thought we'd see him and Marcus Rashford there at the start of the season?

He's just so good.

What has been great is how quickly he's hit the ground running.

And also, I don't know whether it's coincidence that him and Rashford in particular seem to be linking up so well.

But given all the noise we've had around Marcus Rashford II, he's also going to the four.

But yeah, Asencio, just so good.

I know

there were a couple.

I got a little bit of stick online for a very hot take column where I basically slagged off the FA Cup and said every team's going to play reserve sides.

And Villa fans got back to me, well, not quite a reserve team.

And yeah, Asencio, who's not been starting, certainly isn't one of the reserved players.

And Cardiff had a couple of kids.

I think they were a 19-year-old on, 20-year-old as well.

But both played strong-ish teams.

And yeah, Asencio just kind of lit it up.

It was great.

He's absolutely quality.

And I guess in the same way that leaving Man United, you can go and have a great career.

Leaving PSG doesn't mean you're done either.

And he's done that very well.

So fantastic.

And

just a joy to watch.

Looking forward to more of him.

It's worth pointing out in this game, Ethan Horvat was in goal for Cardiff and was sensationally good.

He came in for Jack Ornick.

I don't know if it was rotation or Ornick was injured, but what a performance.

It was incredible.

Let's go to the Edsy Hads, Man City 3 Plymouth 1.

And look, Plymouth had their moment, didn't they?

Look, they've already beaten Brentford and Liverpool.

They've had a great run.

They went 1-0 up in this round.

And actually, John, you know, the goal scorer, Maxin Talovierov, it would have been, I mean, such a moment for him anyway.

He's born in Ukraine.

His parents still live in Kyiv, especially given what has happened in, you know, the big boy world of politics,

you know, on Friday, the implications of what that might have on his homeland.

There weren't too many big boys in the White House on Friday.

No, it's a very good point.

But even still, like, that moment for him is something.

I'd like to see him put on in a 50-50 challenge with JD Vance.

Do you think he'd go for the ball?

I mean, you know, but

anyway,

okay, if Plymouth weren't going to win this

match, which it was, you know, beyond the realms of possibility, they do have that moment.

Now, it actually led to quite an interesting discussion I saw at the weekend, which was a Plymouth fan saying, if you follow a top six club, you will never have a moment like that.

Now, I thought that was an interesting point because I followed a former top six club, now

the worst football team in the world.

But I had a lot of moments like that.

It's not.

Yeah, Aguero is still that moment, right?

Aguero is moment.

Oligon Asolcio and the Newcamp is still that moment.

Now,

I have seen Macclesfield Town score at Chelsea.

They think they lost 8-1 in the end, but they equalised.

And it was that was a moment.

You know, that moment is a special moment.

It's just a different moment.

That's all.

But it's still special, and it's still something that the FA Cup gives.

And it was wonderful to see.

And you begin to think, oh, it's the Manchester City wobble going to extend this far.

It didn't.

Pep is attempting to rebuild that team so quickly, isn't he?

If he manages to pull this off, well, he is the greatest manager of all time, which he probably is anyway.

Well done, Plymouth.

They have been a credit to the FA Cup.

And that man, Kasich,

is going to be on all the

montages and all that,

those celebrations of the defensive

tackles and stuff.

He's been brilliant to watch.

They've been excellent.

They've been excellent.

To Deep Dale, Preston 3, Burnley-Nil.

Look, it's great news for Preston.

As you alluded to this, Barry, at the start of this pod, and you did on the radio yesterday about Preston North End.

Actually, Hamid got in touch at Preston Forever.

He says, Barry's experience of Preston in his 40 years of watching football is perfectly summed up on your radio programme.

We've spent the last 10 years in the championship, never finished higher than 7th or lower than 14th.

A quarterfinal home draw against Villa is something to get excited about.

And it is for them to, you know, like Villa.

The chance of them winning the FA Cup is slim, but like these are, as John was saying, this is their moment.

This is great for them.

Yeah, Robbie Brady, who I I think I knew he was a Preston, but I've forgotten.

But he certainly provided a reminder with one of the goals of the round, a wonderful free kick.

And that opened the scoring against a Burnley side who don't let in goals so

you know what that's that's how to be get one past the Burnley keeper Preston Burnley I know John wrote an article about this last week their their history they met at the very first day of the first ever football league yeah they've played 143 times in the league but this was the first time remarkably they'd ever met in the cup which seems astonishing preston would fancy their chances against Villa.

Villa are not particularly good away from home.

I'll be honest, I never watched Preston,

so I don't.

They just seem a bang average championship side, but they'll fancy their chances.

I mean, the big story, which is sort of not the magic of their VECOM in this game, is the goal's second goal scorer for Preston, Militin Osmajech.

You may remember getting an eight-game ban last year for biting, I think, a Blackburn player.

He was accused of racially abusing the Burnley midfielder Hannibal Medbury when the teams met here a fortnight ago.

The Burnley players refused to shake his hand.

When he scored, he

cupped his ears to the away fans.

Scott Parker didn't pick Hannibal for this game.

He was fit to play, could have been selected.

He wasn't picked.

And Scott Parker said, I kept asking myself whether it was the right thing to do, but the decision was fundamentally about protecting a young boy.

I mean, there were charts from the home crowd asking whether Hannibal was watching some good old football tribalism for you.

obviously like it is incredibly complicated this Sami in terms of you know any case where it's one person's word against another that investigation is still going on but but something doesn't feel right that Hannibal is the guy that doesn't get to play this football match no and that's a reflection of where we are

well as a society but certainly in football terms isn't it that the

victim for want of a better term is the one who misses out on this opportunity albeit given Scott Parker made nine changes, he may not have featured anyway.

So it was something, something convenient there.

You can't not pick Osmaic, right?

He's innocent.

Yeah, exactly.

It feels, it's complicated, I guess.

Yeah, exactly that.

I mean,

looking back at the video, like, you know, as a lot of us done, an infinite number of times, you know,

it's hard to tell.

An element of his game is this kind of anger that boils up in him, yeah, with the biting of a Blackburn Rovers player, clearly.

And the cupping of of both ears

subsequent to the refused to be shook hands with start

just this extra element is very much kind of in the same wheelhouse as the john terry wayne bridge sort of

you know that something completely outside of the game has taken over and dominated the game and it's actually still ongoing and we'll never get the full extent of it all and it it wrecks everything else because you know we're not going to mention uh Stefan Tordarson of Preston who had a brilliant game in the middle of the park and set up the the DIAG for for the third goal because we're busy talking about this, aren't we?

And I guess with all these things, we need resolution.

We need resolution quickly.

I don't know why that hasn't been done.

I know this event was very recent, but why can't you expedite this so this situation doesn't necessarily have to arise because it's dealt with.

Now it's rolling on.

Now we have more fuel added to the fire.

So, yeah.

Can we get ourselves sorted on that front, please?

Well said.

That'll do for part two.

Part three, we'll do some EFL and any other business.

HiPod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Solid in the Championship.

Huge win battles for your boys on Friday night.

Sunderlands and Frank Lampard's Coventry, as we're duty-bound to call them, continue their amazing form, Sanny.

3-2 win over Oxford United up to fifth now.

Yeah, they've won,

I think it was seven of the last eight in the league.

They were great because I last saw them lose the one game in this run against Leeds at home, where they were completely overwhelmed and completely outplayed.

And you thought, well, you know, they're doing okay, but the gulf is huge.

But then, equally, the gulf between Leeds and Sheffield United and the rest is pretty big anyway.

But yeah, I mean, we've talked before about like the players they've got and they had still had players to come back and

Ellis Sims, who was doing okay and then hadn't scored for a while, and Haji Wright had a good run, and then he was injured.

And some of these players are coming back.

But just overall, they seem to be doing really well.

Sakamoto got the winner in this one, and he's been great so far.

Just they all seem to have up the game, and

every, it seems like every game, there's a different player who seems to play like a 10 out of 10.

And I guess this comes down to Frank Lampard.

Can we give him some credit?

Because it's a hell of a turnaround, isn't it?

Really hell of a turnaround from Wednesday with with Mark Robbins.

Is it like, does he give everyone, remember that he always said that there was that chat in the shower that he got from Jose Mourinho that made him the better player, where Jose said you can be in the top three players in the world.

And that made him into Frank Lampard, the Frank Lampard we knew as a footballer.

I was chatting to some colleagues about this.

When you've been a...

a top-top player, as we must refer to Frank Lampard, as his uncle did, Harry, when you become a manager,

your obvious ambition is to be a top-top manager, but being a top-top manager isn't quite the same because there are fewer managers around.

So, if you are Frank Lampard was quite a decent manager of Derby County when they were in the championship, he's obviously doing a decent job at Coventry.

Maybe this is his level, and he might actually be a decent manager at that level.

So, he could become like a Neil Warnock or

yeah, so that and that actually is a really high standard of being a manager.

Because if you are like a, you know, a promotion specialist,

that's a good living.

That's not too bad.

But because he's been Frank Lampard,

you know, you know, it's going to be, oh, well, Chelsea looking for a new manager, which I would, which I would be very amused to see, by the way.

But, you know, he might actually be of a standard.

Yeah, and actually, it'll be weird.

I suppose it depends how he feels about that, given what he achieved.

Yeah, that's it.

It's whether he can accept that.

Because I suppose there are, you know, when I was growing up, there were managers who were this good at managing.

You know, I don't know.

Let's say Steve Coppel, great manager.

Was never a top, top manager.

It was a great player, right?

It was a brilliant

footballer.

Yeah.

Brilliant footballer.

But obviously, I never saw that because he wasn't that.

So to me, Steve Coppel was basically the Crystal Palace manager.

But if you're 10 now, you're just getting into football, what's Frank Lampard?

He's...

He's your good championship manager.

That's what he is.

And yeah, you'd have someone like Colin Todd, who's the best defender.

Yeah, yeah, Roy McFarland.

Like Joe Royal was a fantastic player for Everton.

But you're just thinking, like, oh, Joe Royal got big Joe Royal.

But that's, it's a slightly different thing, and they become, you know, so maybe Frank's reinventing that

manager's thing.

Yeah, interesting.

You're shooting for the playoffs now, Baz, aren't you?

65 points.

That is 13 points ahead of Blackburn in seventh.

You'd think so, yeah.

And automatic promotion looks a bit beyond them, so re-sign Mickey Gray.

That's the key.

Part of me, part of me wants them to get promoted, part of me thinks it could be a terrible idea, but I suppose you have to be in it to win it, as someone said to me a couple of weeks ago.

Yeah, true.

I mean, I suppose for the pod, uh, you know, Sunderland went on a sort of was sort of like Southampton.

I think that might be quite good for us for next season.

You know, just sort of you and you in crisis

every week.

What Sunderland going up would be is is

a different one to all the ones we've seen.

We've got the ones who spent a load of money, we've got the ones who've spent no money

with Luton's expendables.

But what about a bunch of kids?

What happens if you actually throw in players?

Some of them are still children.

How will they do in the Premier League?

Absolutely destroyed.

Birmingham beat Wickham first, beating second in League One.

So now 12 points between them and Birmingham played a game mess as well.

So they're pretty much shoe-ins to go up.

Charlton, having not scored a corner in what feels like nine years, says producer Joel, Charlton fan, scored two in injury time to beat Phalo playoff contenders late in Oring.

And the Neil Harris bounce continues.

A 2-0 win away at Crawley.

Two clean cheats in a row.

I was just listening to the Under the Abbey Stand pod, the Cambridge United pod.

Neil Harris is responsible for 28% of our wins this season, having managed two games.

It doesn't say a whole lot about Gary Monk's achievements.

Yes, John.

Have you been under the Abbey stand?

Have I been under it?

I have, yeah.

On one of my two trips there,

we went into a small gym that they doubled as a press room.

And I remember, you know, there was just sort of wall bars, and it was like being at Seattle.

Yeah, you know, it's not like it's

obviously the greatest football stadium ever built, John.

I do like it, actually, I should say.

No, I've enjoyed it on both my visits, I will say that.

But yeah, it's you know, it's small corridors and you know, you know, the function room is nice.

I like it.

Yeah, yeah.

It's you know, the changing rooms.

I think when we got that, when we drew with Man United and got the replay, they think they put more than they added an extra urinal for the players.

There wasn't just one

for each team.

Walsall might throw it away in league two.

They'll lead at the top.

Just four points now, Sam.

Yeah, I think they will throw away league two, actually.

Jameel Matt is the main striker now, who I know, actually.

Fair playtime, they're just lumped.

Massive name drop that huge name drop.

Fair playtime, they just lump the ball up to him.

I had the high stakes, by the way, going back, I was thinking about this when you mentioned Frank Lampard.

And to give you a comparison, I'll get back to Warsaw.

This relates, but I was wondering in my jobbing world as a reporter, do I prefer the lower stakes element than the higher one?

So I was doing Warsaw Gillingham updates the other day into

Man City, Real Madrid, and I was very aware that I could ruin, I could absolutely ruin the entire evening if I were to go too long with an update.

And as it happened, one John Murray flew to us and I had about five seconds left before Real Madrid scored.

But I was thinking, you know, is it easier doing the lower league stuff where there's less scrutiny?

Do I enjoy that more?

I don't think it's, I don't think it is easier.

I think it's interesting that, you know, a lot of people, you know, starting their way in League Two and League One because you just...

You just don't know the players.

You just don't know that everyone, you know the shapes of the game.

You know, it's easier to do a Champions league game right than it is to do a league two game because they also there's much more randomness in league two you know the same goes for match reporting as well yeah

yeah it's it's if you're given a

a 10th v 11th it's it's a even in the premier league it's it's harder to find the theme than it would be from city v united or whatever you know it's a uh not that that is a battle between top teams these days there you go well there you go i'm going i'm going about things the right way then well um yes you are in that game, yeah, poor Jamil Matt on a pitch that's basically mud, just getting the ball lumped up to him constantly.

They've lost the man who was pushing 20 goals and he's trying to get him across.

Whereas Bradford City are on a roll, they've only lost one at home all season.

They're doing really well.

And I was at

on the weekend on Saturday, Doncaster Rovers, who absolutely tore apart Newport County.

They were excellent.

Luke Molyneux, superb.

And Rob Street, you've got on loan from Lincoln, who's an absolute tower, doing brilliant stuff.

So the teams below Walsall actually have loads of momentum.

So it's one to wait and see there.

Mark says a wee Edinburgh Derby fit bar corner.

Hibbs bottom just before Christmas.

15 unbeaten.

Winning goal, a great hit from a centre half.

Sunshine on Leith.

What more can you want?

I still love sunshine on Leith.

You know, when it's banged out, when the Hibbs fans are all doing it, it's something else, isn't it?

The winner is an absolute beauty by Jack Iredale, an Australian who did play centre-back and left-back for Cambridge in our promotion year of whenever COVID was.

Actually, on the subject of whenever COVID was, I said that Liverpool won the league during, we were trying to work out the last time a team had run away with the league and it was liverpool in what i called it the covid season it was the season where they were already top by a long way when covid hit and a few liverpool fans got really annoyed with me for what i thought was just stating a fact that had actually been told to me by a liverpool fan and i was like is this a why is this a problem because apparently a lot of other fans sort of uh look down on Liverpool's achievement of winning the league when there weren't fans in the stadium for the last couple of months for some reason.

No and voice.

There we go.

Yeah, yeah, no and voice.

That was it.

No and voice.

So, anyway, I walked into that and upset some people going, please write the record.

There were fans in the stadium for most of this.

Fine.

Winning the league is a great achievement.

I am pleased for everybody.

Killigram says,

but anyway, well done, Jack Ardell.

It's a lovely goal.

Go and check it out.

With the news that Yannick Vestegaard has been bringing his dog to training, does anyone know if Jan Bednarek has any pets?

Here is Yannick Vestigaard with his love.

Well, I think it's one of, I mean, I think it's

Vestigaard.

It might be Jan Vednarek.

No, which one is that one?

That's Jan Vednarek.

I'm staring at a photo.

I'll put it in the WhatsApp group.

He's got a lovely dog called Candy.

So has Yannick Vestegard?

So Yannick Vestegaard has also been bringing his dog to training.

I didn't know this.

But there you go.

Like, it's easy to.

Well, I'll tell you what.

I saw

Yannick Vestegaard play for Leicester at West Ham on Thursday.

and he may as well have played his dog instead.

That is brutal.

All right, well, that'll do for today.

Thanks, everybody.

Thanks, Saddie.

Pleasure.

Cheers, John.

Thank you.

Thanks, Barry.

Thank you.

October Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

We'll be back on Wednesday.

This is The Guardian.