Newcastle edge near first silverware in decades: Football Weekly Extra

This is The Guardian.

Hi Pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the Remarkable Paper Pro.

We already know that Remarkable is the leader in the paper tablet category: digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology.

But there's something new and exciting: the remarkable paper pro move remarkable a brand name and an adjective man yeah it's their most portable paper tablet yet it holds all your notes to-dos and documents but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office like maybe a football journalist barry although not like you

a proper football journalist mate exactly too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out.

This paper tablet doesn't.

It'll never beat or buzz to try and grab your attention, so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you.

It has a display that looks, feels, and even sounds like paper.

Think and work like a writer, not a texter.

And the battery performance is amazing.

No worries about running out of power before the end of extra time.

The Remarkable Paper Pro Move can keep going for up to two weeks.

And if you do need to recharge, you can go from naught to 90% in less than 45 minutes, Barry.

Fantastic.

Why not give it a go for nothing?

You can try Remarkable Paper Pro Move for a hundred days for free.

If it's not what you're looking for, get your money back.

Visit remarkable.com to learn more and get your paper tablet today.

Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Newcastle booked their place at Wembley with a dogged, determined and clinical display at St.

James's Park and that was just the banners before kickoff.

A more than deserved victory for Eddie Howe's side who get another crack at healing 70 years of hurt.

Arsenal missed their chances when it mattered and then go missing in defence.

Altogether now, do they need a number nine?

Or will warm weather training in Dubai and another cholesterol spiking visit to Salt Bay's restaurant revive their season?

To tonight's other semi, just how dangerous is Totten's 1-0 lead against Liverpool?

Will the new signings make the difference at Anfield?

The literal fun police emerge to crack down on the scourge of, checks notes, goals celebrations.

We'll round up the main headlines from Transfer Deadline Day.

Get the latest news from Syria.

Take your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glendedding.

Good morning.

Hi, Robin.

Good morning, Nikki Bandini.

Morning.

And Sam Dalling, wonderful to have you on.

Good morning, Robin.

Newcastle 2, Arsenal 0.

Newcastle win 4-0 on aggregates.

And let's start from the beginning, shall we?

It looked like an incredible occasion.

I'm usually a bit cynical about these things, but Sam Fender's saxophonist playing local hero before kickoff.

Um, yeah, siddling fan Barry is grimacing.

Let's just park that for a second.

Um, the atmosphere did look amazing.

It looked like, you know, if as a player, if you're going out into that, you know, you're going to be pumped up.

A huge result, Sam.

Were you expecting this to be as comfortable in the end as it was?

No, in a word.

I think that was the surprise.

The first leg was actually very tense away from home.

And because

a lot of people have said, had the second leg been a week later, Newcastle fans would have been very confident going into it.

But actually, with that month break and with Newcastle managing to lose a couple of home Premier League games pretty tamely as well, including only four or five days ago, and with Arsenal beating Manchester City and all those celebrations that came around that and all the stay humble stuff.

And we'll talk about celebrations later.

But

they didn't lay a glove on Newcastle.

But going into it, people were thinking, Oh, well, if Arsenal gets the first goal, this is going to be a really rough night at St.

James's Park.

And people seem to forget the fact that, well, if Newcastle get the first goal on the night, the tie is almost over.

But that's football fans' mentality, isn't it?

And it was there was all these rallying calls for the fans to make

cliches like Bear Pet Pitts and things.

And there's a group called War Flags who actually do a wonderful job with these kind of TIFO displays up at St.

James's Park.

And everyone was very up for it.

And I was just a bit surprised.

Arsenal looked too for us.

I saw them down at Wolves a couple of weeks ago and they did win that game ultimately but they didn't have a lot up front and they I can bet I know Odegaard hit the post early on and that could have been a game changing moment or a tie-changing moment but other than that De Bravka barely had to work for it and I mean we'll come on to it but Eddie Howe I think deserves a lot of credit for that for the way he's setting your castle up but it just one of those wonderful nights in football those occasions where you're desperate for those nights and then when they come the whole day and the days before, you're really scared of them and terrified.

But actually, it was much more relaxing than I think anyone anticipated.

In Nikki, this was the interesting thing, wasn't it?

Because we thought Arsenal are going to bounce into this after what happened at the weekend.

But because of the way the game was and they needed to come out, it kind of suited Newcastle really well, didn't it?

Yeah,

I'm reluctant with the we there, Robin, because I think I even after the first, like, was the one person in the pod studio saying, no, I don't think Arsenal are going to come back from this, actually i think this feels very much like the dynamic of eddie howe's newcastle against um mikel arteta's arsenal it does it feels like eddie how's got arteta's number and i didn't see where this uh confidence was that arsenal would would have a different answer to what they've delivered so far in fact that i think the most dispiriting part of the whole night coming at this from the arsenal perspective was was hearing arteta afterwards saying oh it's just came down to taking chances and scoring goals because if eaudegarde had scored, it would have all been different.

Sure, if Eaudegarde scores, it's 2-1 in the tie and the mood will change a little bit.

But beyond that one chance, exactly as Sam's just said, it wasn't a close game.

This wasn't a game where you think Arsenal, oh, they got unlucky.

It was a very emphatic result and an emphatic result across two legs.

And what's almost most,

I think.

What almost compounds it most is that Arsenal even got the free warning shot in this game because there was that goal this allowed at the beginning.

There was that Isaac goal this allowed and you thought, okay, you got away with one there because it was a very narrow offside.

Felt much more a result of luck than judgment that that goal is offside.

And

even with that, there wasn't some resounding response from Arsenal in the tie, I didn't think.

And Newcastle absolutely thoroughly deserved it, looked more up for it and played better football across both legs.

And Barry, I think another alarming thing was a lot has been mentioned about Gabrielle and particularly William Saliba, just looked so,

I don't know, almost frightened.

Like Isaac really put the frighteners on them.

They didn't look sure-footed at all, which is really unusual to see.

Yeah, they're normally fairly unflappable.

And

Alexander Isaac and

Anthony Gordon had them in a state of almost constant panic last night.

William Saliba, I can't remember him having a worse game in an Arsenal shirt.

I don't think they were helped by the fact that Declan Rice went AWOL in another big game.

I was lavishing my praise of him on Monday, but he did nothing last night.

It reminded me of his performance over both legs of Arsenal's Champions League exit at the hands of Bayern Munich last night in a couple of big England games where Bruno Jimara's and Fabian Scharr just had his number really and and

I don't he wasn't

i don't know nasty enough to to be able to deal with him he was he was almost bullied it hurts to say but as a sunderla fan it was an annoyingly good newcastle performance

eddie how

lined up with three central defenders uh who one of whom shar had a license to get forward and that's where their second goal came from

uh he put in kieran trippier uh right wing back instead of tino liveramento That helped.

Very street-wise player who's very good at needling opposition players.

And then Odegaards miss and Newcastle scoring their opener from the subsequent kick out.

That was probably the turning point in the game.

But I don't think Arsenal were ever in this at all.

It was a pretty disappointing performance.

A lot of their fans will say, ah, it's just the Carabao Cup.

We've bigger fish to fry.

But the worry for them is they've lost three times against Newcastle now this season, and they still have to play them again in the league.

So, and

I haven't seen any evidence to suggest they'll win that one.

What I enjoyed quite a lot about this game is Gary Neville on Co-Comms and Sky just going through his full repertoire of orgasmic groans, yowls, and

yelps.

It was, yeah, something else.

He really went through them a lot.

But nah, it was a great performance from Newcastle, and they absolutely did a number on Arsenal in in this game.

Thoroughly deserving winners.

Maybe there'll be like a

release an album of Gary Neville's.

Oh, God.

Oh, God.

Well, just like a soundboard, maybe.

A concept album.

Or like a kid's toy where you press the.

This is where you're nearly giving away a good chance.

This is a bad tackle.

Yeah, no, he went through the whole repertoire.

I've got to say, shout out to our colleague Seb Hutchinson.

I've been there as a commentator when the game is dead and you've got basically half an hour to just have a little chat and because there's nothing going on at all.

But that's credit to Newcastle, Sam.

How did Eddie Howell set the team up?

Because it did just work to perfection, it seemed.

Yeah, and there's been one of the criticisms leveled at him is he's very much a plan A manager and that he there's no other way he hasn't got a different way of playing and Newcastle saw that against Fulham in that defeat at the weekend

and in games where Newcastle expected to be on the front foot and have possession, that might be true because he doesn't yet quite have the players to really dominate games in the way that, say, a Man City or an Arsenal have done previously.

But in this one, the rumours started a few hours before kickoff that he was going to go to five at the back.

And immediately, everyone went, oh, is you know, minds went back to the last 20 minutes at Emirates where Newcastle played 5-5-0 and properly did no strikers, no forward players.

Just sat back on me.

After all he said, because he was asked in the build-up,

oh, 2-0 is a dangerous scoreline.

And he went, well, it is a dangerous scoreline, but only if you don't play well, which I quite liked actually as a line from him.

But he set up five at the back.

And actually,

that is where Eddie Howe is very good, particularly against Michel Arteta.

He seems to have his number.

So have these three centre-backs, the height to combat

Arsenal set piece fret.

I thought bringing Trippier back actually, he's barely played in the last year, really.

Live Ramento has very much overtaken him as first choice right back.

And Trippier's, if there was any doubt that he's still very much a leader in that group, I think that was extinguished last night.

And then he had his centre-backs.

Basically, he had people man-marking people.

So Cher would follow Declan Rice wherever he was going.

We saw it in the first leg as well.

You'd have Dan Burners then, bottom one, up in the opposition half following Kai Havertz.

Prudo Kimara said afterwards his job was basically to follow party around.

And we saw it work.

Like, I don't know, for that second goal, I have no idea what David Ray is doing because I've watched it back a few times.

It wasn't on, was it?

Wasn't on.

He can clearly see.

It's not like Shares just come into his eyeline too late after he's hit the ball.

He's played it to Rice in real trouble.

And maybe he thought he was some sort of mirage.

Like, what is the Newcastle centre half really doing now?

He can't actually be up there.

But he was, and it just worked.

Everything, how set up.

And Giba Ray said it in his post-match interview.

He said, actually, the game was one pre-match because Eddie gave us this game plan.

We followed it to the letter.

I think he said they had three sessions after the weekend.

They were in on the Wednesday morning because you always wonder what footballers do on big nights like that.

It's a long time to wait until eight o'clock, but they were in walking through the plans in the morning.

So credit to Eddie Howe for that.

That definitely was a plan B and it definitely worked.

That's one of the mysteries of football calendars, isn't it?

Somehow, the 15-minute difference between 7.45 and 8 o'clock feels massive.

It feels like it's a huge amount later whenever you go to game 8 o'clock at 7.45 for some reason.

No, it really does, doesn't it?

I don't know why.

Yeah, no, it's weird.

It's weird that I guess it were for us as well.

It's just that.

that little bit later getting home, isn't it?

More bad news, Nikki.

Again, Martinelli coming off.

I mean, now they're really light in that position, aren't they?

Yeah, it's a shame there wasn't a month-long period in the season when you could try to sign some extra forwards.

I don't know

if football would consider that in future seasons.

No, it is strange.

It's strange that Arsenal have taken this position of not reinforcing up front.

Obviously,

you can make a pretty logical case for not overspending in January.

It's very easy to overspend in January.

And I certainly think with how much it costs to buy a really top forward,

you don't want to make a big investment in January and get it wrong just because you're rushing,

because you have this idea that you need to compete for the league title right now, when in reality you're already six points behind the leaders and that might not do it anyway, right?

You don't want to make a bad investment because you're chasing something that you might not be able to fix.

At the same time, it is...

It is a real injury crisis up there already with Saka and Jesus.

And now you add another player onto it and you think, well, couldn't we have done something?

Couldn't we have done, it doesn't have to have been the first choice, doesn't have to have been the the best uh option available for long term but couldn't there have been a loan deal couldn't there have been some option that that could have been found just to have another body in there because it does it does feel very thin with martinelli going out as well and it sounds like hamstring injury could it could be at least a few weeks on that

um i did want to mention Barry that we did get to hear what Simon Hooper sounds like, which I wasn't expecting.

Producer Joel saying that

he sounded like a child readying to deliver his one-line as an an activity because he's so nervous.

I wonder if referees actually want to do this, do they?

Probably not.

I mean,

when you're only sort of

performance or your delivery of one line, and that line is chalking off a goal for the home side in this feverile bear pit, you can understand his

nerves.

But he didn't sound like I thought he'd sound.

I thought he'd sound more northern.

But I just expect all referees to sound northern.

I don't even know where Simon Hooper is from, but

because this is something that they have in the NFL, like you have this concept in American football, it's normal for the referees to speak.

So I think I understand where they're coming from as someone who's watched a lot of that.

And I think in the NFL, certainly it works.

It's a very different sport with a very different flow to it.

But

I think I'm in favour of the concept of it, but it definitely felt so

uncomfortable to him in that second.

And I was saying, I just couldn't get over how much he was pointing at Isaac.

Like, he didn't want anyone looking at him.

He's like, it was that guy.

Don't blame me for this.

He was offside.

He should feel bad about what he's done because he's caused you to stop having fun, not me.

Yeah, I don't know.

In the NFL, they have these yellow flags they throw on the pitch to sort of indicate a penalty.

And I almost feel like he needed something else to look at.

So he wasn't just jabbing his finger at Isaac.

Oh, I'm sure that's to come.

Yeah, and we'll all get very angry about that as well.

Jack says, was it the ball?

Squeaky says, is it fair that the Carabao Cup second leg was played with the same type of ball used in the first leg?

That's in reference to Mikel Arteta mentioning the ball after the first leg.

He was actually asked about it in his defence.

Newcastle fans were chanting, is it the ball, Mikel?

And then after the game, Newcastle posted on Twitter a picture of the ball with the caption, the culprit.

I'm sure Tony Scholz will punish them for that, I'm sure.

More on that later, listener.

Barry,

just to sort of wrap things up, I mean, this is

everyone's saying, oh, they're going to go to Dubai, Arsenal, and it's going to be exactly like last season because after they went to Dubai, they were really good and they barely lost a game.

I mean, we can't really assume that's going to happen again, are we?

And even if they didn't,

they still might not win anything this season.

Yeah, that's very possible.

It's probably likely, to be fair,

I've never been to Dubai.

I can't speak for its restorative qualities.

It's a place I have no interest whatsoever in ever visiting.

Yeah, it's good for them to get whatever it is 10 days off and go and get a bit of sun and some nice food and a bit of R.

I'd say they'll be, you know, if they played really well and still not got through, you'd go fair enough.

But it's like

when Newcastle lost that Carabao Cup final against who was at Manchester United two years ago.

They just didn't turn up, didn't lay a glove on them.

Arsenal were like this last night.

It was just a very poor performance, a bit after the Lord Mayor's show, and they've left themselves open to accusations that they maybe over-celebrated or rate, you know, emphatic win over a really fallible Manchester City side.

Maybe they got

notions above their station.

I don't know.

But it was poor from Arsenal and a very, as I said, annoyingly good performance from Newcastle.

I quite enjoyed Anthony Gordon getting the line, we've got to stay humble, into his post-match interview as well.

Maybe they just were the words that came to his head in the moment, who knows, but it was very good.

I'm enjoying this callback, but is it now getting a bit

tired?

I think, no, no.

Let's keep absolutely flogging it like a Stuart Lee stand-up routine.

I think that'll do.

Sam, last word for you on this.

I mean, we'll get to the second leg of the second tie for tonight but do you do you feel like Newcastle will have learned lessons from

last time?

Obviously you want to enjoy this moment don't you getting to a final but they want to go one step you know they want to go the whole way this time won't they?

It's been so long since a trophy for Newcastle.

Oh it's been a long time.

I hope so and it's felt throughout the run.

particularly the quarterfinal.

The first time around and we're talking about two years ago, there was a sense of occasion with everything and everything was celebrated and there was such joy and rightly as it should be for the fans but i think how has intimated in some of the stuff he said that

maybe the

the that build-up to the final the players and the staff inadvertently got so caught up in the occasion because they became heroes just by getting to a final it was such a a big deal And as Barry said, they completely didn't turn up on the day.

And I go back to the semi-final first leg two years ago, beat Southampton Southampton one-away.

And it was a wonderful night.

And I took my partner, then wife, with me.

And I don't drink that often, but I had a few drinks that night.

And at the end of a 1-0 win against Southampton,

we were all ready to leave.

We clapped the players off and she went to the loo and said, oh, I'll meet you here.

And I said, okay, I'll just do a bit more celebrating.

And the subs, unused subs came out to warm down.

And I, for about 10, 15 minutes, were just stuck down, not stuck, voluntarily down there singing the Matt Ritchie song at Matt Ritchie with a couple of hundred other people and i wandered out eventually to meet her at the waiting place and she was fuming we had to walk back along this river in southampton and the whole time she was about 10 paces ahead of me she was driving us home uh i was just following in her wake and and the line celebrate when you've won something has become famous in our household and amongst our family it gets used all the time and so that is a man time stuck with by the way i should say i then realized that in her she's a watford fan and in her bedroom there is a whole photo frame.

Her and her dad, uh, this Watford scoffing, it was a blooming semi-final win against Wolves.

So, this whole celebrate when you won something, I was like, Come on, you can't do that.

But that the point I'm trying to make is celebrate when you've won something.

And I think the players and the staff, and hopefully, the fans this time will hold on to that mantra because it's been a tough run, but there is still a final, it would be lovely to win it.

Sam, I don't want to intrude or pry into the nitty-gritty of your uh private life, but you refer to her as your partner, then-wife, and have subsequently referred to her bedroom.

So, I don't know, if things aren't going well in the Dalling household,

I will correct that.

We don't have to edit it, but yes,

current wife.

Oh, no,

that's

worse, that's even worse.

Just my wife,

my wife, and her childhood bedroom at her

house.

Got it.

That story suddenly feels like a really bad idea, baby.

Let's keep all of that in, I think, now, for the context.

Yes, I think we'll leave that there for part one.

Thank you to everyone for the lovely comments on Blue Sky about having my baby here.

But I understand there's probably a double that to people who are quite annoyed.

But just to let you know, I do have my baby Sully here in case you can hear any sort of

sounds that you might not want to.

Is he named after Solly March?

Yeah, that's his middle name, Solly March Cowan.

No,

It's a family name, but yeah, happily, it's lovely to see Solly March back return to full fitness.

But that's another story.

Anyway, that'll do for part one.

In part two, we'll preview tonight's League Cup second leg between Liverpool and Spurs.

Hi, Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here, too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the Remarkable Paper Pro.

We already know that Remarkable is the leader in the paper tablet category digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper but with the power of modern technology but there's something new and exciting the remarkable paper pro move

remarkable a brand name and an adjective man yeah it's their most portable paper tablet yet it holds all your notes to-dos and documents but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office like maybe a football journalist barry Although, not like you.

A proper football journalist, mate.

Exactly.

Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out.

This paper tablet doesn't.

It'll never beat or buzz to try and grab your attention, so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you.

It has a display that looks, feels, and even sounds like paper.

Think and work like a writer, not a texter.

And the battery performance is amazing.

No worries about running out of power before the end of extra time.

The remarkable Paper Pro move can keep going for up to two weeks.

And if you do need to recharge, you can go from naught to 90% in less than 45 minutes, Barry.

Fantastic.

Why not give it a go for nothing?

You can try Remarkable Paper Pro Move for 100 days for free.

If it's not what you're looking for, get your money back.

Visit remarkable.com to learn more and get your paper tablet today.

Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So, Liverpool against Spurs tonight at Anfield.

Spurs lead 1-0 on aggregate.

Barry, I'm not sure if a second leg is going to suit Spurs at this stage.

They lead, but I'm not sure.

I haven't looked at the sort of betting markets or anything.

I'm assuming they're not going to be favourites to progress, are they?

I don't know, is the answer to that question.

Look, I don't know how this game is going to go.

You would think Liverpool will probably have enough about them to turn the tie around.

I think I would prefer Liverpool to get to the final because I'd be more confident in them beating Newcastle than Spurs.

But I think a Tottenham-Newcastle final would be really interesting because you've these two perennial losers going toe to toe in a final.

That's how Sky gonna build it, isn't it?

Well,

I mean, I'm sorry, but it's true.

It is true.

And they'd both be so scared of losing that game.

so bad but good wouldn't it yeah it could be an awful awful final for everyone involved just the terror and the apprehension but great for us uh i'm not going to say i'm a neutral because you know i i don't want newcastle to win a trophy to end their trophy drought i think i would like spurs to get through and i think a newcastle spurs final would be really

interesting and fun albeit not for the fans of either team involved until the final whistle blown is blown and at we or the penalty shootout ends, at which point one of them will be beside themselves with delight and the others will be just absolutely devastated.

But

and

you know, he's he has got this second season winner trophy thing about him, and he's reminded journalists of it earlier this season.

And, you know, who's to say Tottenham can't get the rack together tonight and finish this off?

It looks like it's going to be another slightly makeshift defence.

Dragasheen ruled out

probably to the end of the season and maybe beyond with an ACL injury.

Romero is out.

Not much information on Van der Wen, but it sounds like he's not going to be able to be involved.

They're also missing Solanke, Madison, Werner, Johnson, Udogi, and Vicario.

Yeah, okay.

I'm now revising my opinion.

Liverpool will win about 5-0.

But Ange wins a trophy in his second season, Barry.

That's what we have to cling on to.

But Nikki, it sounds like Kevin Danso

might start.

He's signed on loan from Lance.

Yeah, I mean, as we mentioned, they've got a huge injury list.

Do they do Ange ball or

do they try and hang on to this gold lead?

This is the question.

Mate, we only play one way, don't we, mate?

That's got to be the answer.

I'm curious to see how bold he is with the new signings.

Because, of course, Matisse Tello as well coming in on loan.

Interesting player, young player, certainly fascinated to see.

There is this

journalist in me, hungry for the narrative that wants to see these people just thrown into the match and see what happens.

Because, yeah,

on paper, it's very hard to make a case for expecting anything other than Liverpool being a better team than Tottenham at home, where they haven't lost to Tottenham in...

what about

more than half a decade?

Probably much more than that.

I'm not even certain when it is that Tottenham last won at Anfield.

It's a long time.

And so you expect the expectable result.

But

there is definitely something.

And I think certainly you could say that Newcastle's energy was different in the cup game last night to what it had been in the league games immediately preceding it.

There is something to the fact that

this is Tottenham's entire season right here at this point, whereas it's realistically the last on Liverpool's list of priorities.

But it's a semi-final and it's an Anfield, and I don't think they're going to not show up.

I fully expect Liverpool to play very well tonight, but I'm just, if you want a case for why it could be different, that's the best I've got.

Sam, Liverpool do look sort of machine-like this season, don't they?

I think it would be a huge surprise, even though they go into this 1-0 down.

Yes, I was just having a quick Google and the Opta supercomputer for what it's worth has run all its simulations and it's pretty much guaranteeing a Liverpool victory.

They are,

I can't look at this as a neutral.

My head, I'm trying to step back at it and be journalistic, but all my head is saying, who would you rather play in the final?

Who'd you rather play in the final?

And I think the answer is definitely Tottenham Hotspur.

And that's not saying Newcastle would definitely beat them, who knows?

But as a fan, I would prefer the frailties of Tottenham and Angeball, which could end up winning 5-0 and could end up

in a Newcastle victory.

So I think what I'm trying to say is, yes, Liverpool are too efficient.

They are too clinical in what they do.

There's less uncertainty.

And I think when you are, as Barry phrases it, a perennial loser, when you're not quite at a level where you know you can function at your very best week in, week out, what you need in a game is uncertainty.

And

Liverpool don't really have that.

Albeit Newcastle went head to head with them and drew free all earlier in the season.

But at home, they got in the FA Cup, Plymouth as well.

I know they're going away.

There's a Merseyside Derby, but when you're winning and when you're on a roll,

I'd love to say hopefully Ange can go there.

And he's got to play Angeball, by the way.

He can't suddenly go 5-5-0.

But I just think Liverpool have too much.

It's one of those ties that makes you a bit sad for no away goals rule again, doesn't it?

Because if it's 1-0 and a goal for Tottenham effectively means that Liverpool have to score three, then it's a really fascinating setup.

But I sort of,

I think

there was a lot of talk

before last night's game about the first goal.

Oh, if Arsenal scored the first goal, it's going to change the dynamic.

I'm not even that sure that if Tottenham scored the first goal, if it's going to change the dynamic that much, because it's still Liverpool at home and I still expect them to score at least two.

So I

maybe I'm wrong on that and maybe there will be a first goal that changes the shape of it.

But

I do think that it is one of those where if away goals was in place, it would feel very different to how it feels without away goals.

There's just no world in which the last thing Ange says before those top 1 players is, lads, keep it tight for the first 20 minutes and the quiet and the crowd.

Park that bus, mate.

Yeah, I can't see it.

Can't see it.

Nikki, you mentioned Matthias Tell.

Good piece in The Guardian from Andy Brassel because obviously I didn't know anything about him.

And actually, subsequently, so he's joined on loan, but Ange, he actually used the word mate.

We're not taking the piss here.

He said, we're going to sign him.

So that's quite a big statement from him, isn't it?

But yeah, it sounds like he could be extremely exciting.

Yeah, he's he's again because he's 19 years old, we haven't seen a lot of him at the senior level yet and

there is a lot of very positive buzz around him and it's s somewhat surprising that

Bayern have allowed him out of their grasp.

But I'm fascinated.

I'm fascinated to see what sort of player he's going to become because the buzz around him, as I say, is very positive.

I haven't had a chance to read Andy's article yet, so I can't comment on what Andy's written, unfortunately.

But yeah,

I know a lot of people think very highly of Tell.

And also, Barry, they've signed Mason Mellier for what St.

Patrick's Athletic have announced as a record transfer fee for a League of Ireland player.

You've been following this County Wicklow lad closely, I'm sure.

I've never heard of him before, I'm afraid.

I don't.

I used to follow League of Ireland football.

I used to go to Shamrock Rovers a lot because I lived near the ground.

They were sort of

renting or playing in ground sharing in when they were homeless many years ago.

But I don't keep an eye on League of Ireland proceedings really anymore.

Although Damian Duff is the manager of Shelburne, he's always good value for a controversial quote.

He insists that the League of Ireland is the best league in the world.

I wouldn't necessarily agree, but what was the fee out of interest?

Do you know?

£1.5 million,

possibly rising to £3.5 with a 20% sell-on.

So clearly, highly rated.

But I mean, for a League of Ireland side, that is like winning the lottery.

Yeah, it's just massive.

Let's touch on the Premier League game from Monday.

That was a long time ago.

Chelsea 2, West Ham United 1.

Can anyone remember what happened in this game?

Did anyone watch it closely?

Anyone want to comment on it?

I was more focused on Middlesbrough-Sunderland, but it wasn't a great game.

Chelsea probably just about deserved to win it with two very scrappy goals.

Jared Bone was back for West Ham.

He scored a lovely finish to put them ahead, but they ultimately lost.

I suppose the main talking points are that Nicholas Jackson has now gone eight games without scoring.

Chelsea finally dropped Robert Sanchez.

Philip Jorgensen was in goal for them in this game.

And West Ham had a lot of injuries and Evan Ferguson was looking on from the stands because he'd only signed for them that day.

It was the close of play on deadline day.

So

yeah, it wasn't very good from what I saw.

Yeah, important three points for Chelsea.

It moves them back into the top four.

Seems to be a lot of movement in terms of the top four in the Premier League.

Speaking of deadline day, Barry, you're winners and losers.

I know we like to say who's won the transfer window.

I wonder if it...

It might be Aston Villa just because they've signed people that we all know and we all assume they're going to to be brilliant.

Yeah, I mean, if you look at winners and losers, you kind of have Aston Villa and Man City,

I would say, have a foot in each camp.

City spent an awful lot of money, young players who are largely unproven and probably won't hit their stride until next season, I reckon.

Omar Marmouche, obviously, he seems to have hit the ground running and he's a class act.

Villa obviously brought in 77 million euros, so I said about 68 million quid, selling John Duran, got rid of Jaden Philogene, Diego Carlos, loaned out Emi Buendia,

Costin Edelchkovich

and Samuel Ling Jr.

and brought in Rashford Malin, Andreas Garcia and Axel Dizazis in on loans from Chelsea.

They need I think they needed another defender, which they didn't get.

Tottenham's

wage to revenue

ratio is famously low.

It's like under 50%.

Villa's is almost 100% now, if not over 100%.

So that's a worry for them because if they don't qualify for the Champions League they're going to be in big trouble financially I think which could lead to more ticket price rises

and

a lot of their fans were upset this season when the the owners said they they had to jack up Champions League ticket prices for the PSR thing.

I think maybe the winners of the transfer window were probably bourne with Brentford and Forrest because they managed to hold on to all these players they have who lots of other clubs wanted.

So that's a win for them.

We've spoken about Spurs.

Kinske came in, Danso, Matthias Tell, so that's good because they clearly need more bodies in.

And in terms of losers, I'd say

well Arsenal didn't sign anyone Newcastle didn't sign anyone

they sold or they loaned Lloyd Kelly to Juventus having only brought him in in the summer and he's probably not going to come back to Newcastle Miggy Almeron's gone to back to Atlanta the MLS Atlanta as opposed to Syria at Atlanta Leicester done nothing really they bought badly in the summer and have done nothing to improve the situation And,

yeah, Manchester United, they didn't have a good window either.

They brought in this Patrick Dorgu guy from Lecha,

bought some youngster from Arsenal, Aiden, Heaven,

and

sold Rashford, didn't replace him,

which is sort of concerning seeing as they have two strikers there who Ruben Albaram doesn't seem to have any faith in.

And they were trying to get rid of

Garnacho and couldn't.

So,

yeah, I'd say they had a bad window.

And then Chelsea, I just don't know anymore.

They seem to have

shipped out quite a lot of the players we were all scratching our heads at them buying during the summer.

So, yeah, maybe it was good, maybe it wasn't.

And then, yeah, brought back Chaliba, who was then benched for the West Ham games.

It's still very, very confusing at Stamford Bridge.

Sam, I think we didn't expect Newcastle to sign anyone.

Eddie Howe seemed to expect that too, but I mean, it must be frustrating, especially lost, as Barry said, Almaron and Lloyd Kelly.

Well, we hoped.

We didn't necessarily expect.

But yeah, the line is, well, that's three transfer windows in a row now.

And Howe hasn't been able to strengthen the first team, the actual starting 11.

And

there is that worry.

It's a bit of a gamble, basically.

They're gambling on getting in to the Champions League, finishing in what looks like it's going to be the top five, which is very possible.

They're still, it's the same owners, but the people who front the club, Stavely, Amanda Staveley in particular, I think they were more gamblers and they had to come in and they said, yes, yes, yes.

They wanted to feed the manager.

They wanted this momentum and the crowd to get behind them.

So like buying Anthony Gordon in a January window a couple of years ago.

And I think they were stung badly last June when they were scrambling around, initially thinking, oh, we're going to have to sell one of the crown jewels.

In the end, they sold Minter and they sold Anderson effectively for 15 million quid, right?

Elliot Anderson's gone to a team who are third in the Premier League, playing midfield.

He's a young lad, come for the academy, and they've got 15 million quid for him.

And they are very,

they don't want that to happen again, basically.

And Paul Mitchell's come in, and for the first time, it's not purely down to how, and there's someone trying to look at it long term.

So we have to, in inverted commas, trust the process because what it sounds like they want to do is actually come the last couple of weeks of June this year is be in a position to take advantage of teams who are going, Oh, we need to sell somebody to make up the PSR numbers and swoop in.

But I think that's that is risky because if you don't get in the Champions League, there's no way Isak and people like Guimarez and Tenali, well, are they going to hang around?

And maybe they do have to sell Isaac.

Maybe at some point, that is just going to be the reality for the money they can get to him.

But it is disappointing because for two or three years, we've been saying, Oh, need a new right-winger, need a new right centre-back, but it's going to be slow.

Um, I think the Villa one, I think that's that's a real risk for them as well.

They've gambled because it bringing players, it's an old-school January transfer window, that right bringing players in on a loan who a couple of them probably have no intention of being there come June.

So, you've got this, you're paying all their wages, and then come the summer, you're just in the same position again, needing those players.

So, I think they're going gambling on Champions League finish, and maybe they'll get there.

I think Wolves actually had a decent window as well because they didn't lose Cunha.

They brought in a couple of defenders.

I saw Agbadou play against Arsenal.

I thought he was very good.

I think their transfer window has given them a chance of staying up.

It looks like it's free from force.

I think Wolves had a good window.

Could I also add for the benefit of Max Rushdon, who's probably busy at the minute and not staying across all the comings and goings, that just for Max's benefit, Jay Rodriguez has gone to Wrexham.

Max always struggles to know where Jay Rodriguez is at any given time.

Yeah, he always likes to know

his movements, doesn't he?

Jay Rodriguez.

He's got him tracked.

The next section we're calling Tony Scholes Fun Police.

The Premier League may consider punishments for individual players if they feel celebrations are damaging the reputation of the game or could inflame opposition fans or players.

So the Premier League's chief football officer Tony Scholes has said there's a balance.

I think we all like to see celebrations.

Some of the celebrations have been very funny, entertaining, but there's a line.

Once it crosses over into mockery or criticism, then we would need to deal with it.

As I said in the group, we're one step away from seeing a sign coming up saying no ball games, aren't we?

Come on, this is ridiculous.

And also, yeah, as producer Joel's pointed out,

who's going to be judging what's inflammatory and what's not?

Is it going to be VAR?

Was that enough like a seagull?

I mean, this is ludicrous to me.

Yeah, it does seem weird.

Look, I don't know the context in which Tony Scholl said this.

Did he just, you know, stand on a box in Hyde Park and announce it, or was he asked?

He didn't name any players specifically, but I note from social media that quite a lot of Arsenal fans

seem to have decided it's a dig at Miles Lewis Skelly.

It probably is.

And Illiman Injai, who got famously got booked for impersonating a seagull.

Again, all we want is consistency.

You know, Jamie Vardy is a total wind-up merchant.

I always find his celebrations amusing.

He didn't get booked for impersonating an eagle when he scored against Crystal Palace.

But Eliminjai, you know, are you allowed

mock eagles, which I would say are far more majestic birds than seagulls.

But, you know, the line is drawn somewhere between an eagle and a seagull, clearly.

But

I'm all for it.

I think it's all good fun.

And

it's the same in comedy, you know, stand-up comedy.

Oh, there's a line.

You can't.

I think you can joke about anything as long as you do it properly and tactfully and cleverly.

So it's up to the players to

put thought and nuance into their celebrations.

As a Brighton resident who has not once but twice had food thieved from me by a seagull, I think they deserve all the mockery they get.

Well said.

I mean, I think Jemmy Varney's going to hand in his resignation with immediate effect, isn't it?

This is

his shtick.

I don't want to keep bringing this to the NFL, but the NFL had this a few years ago.

I think it was the late 2000s.

There was rules introduced about celebrating because,

well,

fans were branding it the No Fun League for a while because they decided people were taking it too far and they said you weren't allowed to do celebrations that involved more than one of your teammates and you weren't allowed to use props, and you weren't allowed to.

I think it was rules about like how long you're allowed to leave your feet and everything.

It was really precise, and I think after a few years, they did eventually wind a lot of that back because they realised it was a bit of a nonsense, and

that it was indeed just making something that should be fun, no fun for no reason.

And with Baz,

it's about how you do it, and of course, the line isn't always totally clear to everyone.

But

are we really thinking that just because someone else did a celebration first, if you do the same celebration, that's crossed some absolute line of moral code?

It's not like Harlan's celebration is honouring some

loved relative or a part of his culture.

It's just a little celebration.

Yeah, let's just hope that this is a a non-story that doesn't because there's literally like no fun, we don't like fun, this is not entertainment anymore at all.

That'll do for part two.

I mean, yeah, that was me talking about the story, not this podcast, by the way, hopefully, for some people.

That'll do for part two.

In part three, we'll talk to Nikki about Syria.

Hi, Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the Remarkable Paper Pro.

We already know that Remarkable is the leader in the paper tablet category, digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology.

But there's something new and exciting.

The remarkable Paper Pro move.

remarkable a brand name and an adjective man yeah it's their most portable paper tablet yet it holds all your notes to-dos and documents but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office like maybe a football journalist Barry although not like you

a proper football journalist mate.

Exactly.

Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out.

This paper tablet doesn't.

It'll never beat or buzz to try and grab your attention, so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you.

It has a display that looks, feels, and even sounds like paper.

Think and work like a writer, not a texter.

And the battery performance is amazing.

No worries about running out of power before the end of extra time.

The Remarkable Paper Pro Move can keep going for up to two weeks.

And if you do need to recharge, you can go from naught to 90% in less than 45 minutes, Barry.

Fantastic.

Why not give it a go for nothing?

You can try Remarkable Paper Pro Move for 100 days for free.

If it's not what you're you're looking for, get your money back.

Visit remarkable.com to learn more and get your paper tablet today.

Welcome back to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

A quick whip around Italy, Nikki, and your piece from the weekend was talking about the Milan Derby and Kyle Walker's bow.

Yeah, Kyle Walker made his debut at the weekend.

Pretty solid debut in the Milan Derby and a good draw for Milan.

They very nearly won that game.

Well, they had won the two previous derbies, but before that they had been on a really rough run against Inter.

I think it was six losses in a row.

a nice start for him in a slightly odd derby because there's a current investigation going on to the

organised supporters groups on both sides of the Milan derby and ties to criminal groups.

And so there was no choreographia and none of the usual what has become called the TIFO in English, which always annoys the Italians a little bit because TIFO is a bit of a,

yeah, it was a strange atmosphere going into that game, but it ended up being a very entertaining derby and Walker made a solid start in it.

Oddly,

with this last night, you had Arsenal playing in the Arsenal playing in the Carabao Cup while Milan were playing in in the Coppa Italia quarterfinal.

And I think Milan had more English players on the pitch than Arsenal did because they had not just Kyle Walker but also Tamori, who, of course, nearly joined Tottenham in the Transo window, and also

Tammy Abraham up front, who scored twice.

So a very English contingent at Milan at the moment and all playing pretty well.

Walker played again last night and positive reviews.

Tamori had another good game and Abraham, as I say, with a couple of goals.

So an English moment happening at at Milan, perhaps.

And Scott, how's our Scots getting on as well at Napoli?

Scott McTominay seems to have really become a cult hero very quickly.

McTominay's been great.

And Napoli are top of the league.

That was the thing with that draw for Milan against Inter.

It was

two points dropped for Inter.

Now, later in the evening, Napoli had a chance to build their lead at the top and wound up themselves very nearly winning, but conceding an injury time goal in much the same way as Milan had.

They conceded an injury time goal against Roma.

So it's very, very tight.

And Inta have a chance to pull level with them if they win their game in hand.

But McTominay's been an absolute hit.

He's just, I feel like I say this every time I come on, but he's just absolutely become one of those Antonio Conte players.

I think every team that Conte goes to, he has his pets.

He has his guys who are just the ones who you know are all in on his project.

They're the ones that Conte looks to and trusts they're going to do the work and so they become undroppable.

And I think that McTominay has become one of those for Conte at Napoli and

he's doing what I think even Manchester United fans who certainly had not been universal in appreciating him while he was there.

But I think

even amongst Manchester United fans, there was appreciation for the fact that he was a midfielder who could break the lines and score goals.

And I think his ability to do that has been really valuable for a Napoli team that did need to reinvent its attack this season because Ossiman went in the summer and then Kvarat Skelli has gone now in the January transfer window.

But they've become a different team with a different way of attacking, and having that line-breaking ability, that midfield scorer, a goal scorer behind Lukaku up front, has been really, really valuable.

We mentioned Napoli, so they're top into second, Atalanta Lazio Juve below them.

Who else should be looking out for?

I always enjoy checking in on Uncle Claudio.

He's doing not too badly at Roma.

He took a point of Napoli, as you mentioned.

Yeah, he certainly calmed the waters a bit at Roma, who had this extremely, I don't know what the right word is for it.

They had a very chaotic start this season with Danielle de Rossi, who of course got a contract extension at the end of last season, then getting fired almost immediately.

which is not just a decision you can make about whether or not he's doing well as a manager in Rome.

He's one of the city's great sons and one of the ones who the fans adore and who, of course, was the

deputy to Francesco Totti for all those years and eventually the captain himself.

And so to treat someone like that, giving them the contract extension and then tossing them out after whatever it was, four or five games at the start of the season,

went down very badly.

Ivan Jurich came in, didn't fix the situation.

Seranieri comes in and he's a true Roman who can calm the fans down a bit and has.

But they are still ninth in the table.

Results have improved but it's it's still a long way off where the club's meant to be which in the champions league places and i think this conversation about whether or not it's going to be four or five spots is going to be a really important one in italy this season because you've currently got

inter andapoli absolutely having a title race as you said atalanta looking pretty solid for third place even though they've lost a bit of momentum recently but then after that you've got lazio who looking like the best of this group of players of group of teams through the season and then you've got Juventus, Milan and Roma who are all clubs who absolutely aspire to and believe they should be in the Champions League who are chasing running to keep up so the top four might not include any of those teams even the top five is not a guarantee that those teams are going to get into but they're all doing what they can to get there in this second half of the season.

And Milan had a very aggressive transfer window.

They obviously brought in João Felix from Chelsea.

They also signed Santiago Jimenez.

Those two players combined for a goal in the Cop by Talia last night.

They've done plenty more business, even than that, this January.

And you can see there's a bit of desperation actually amongst clubs like Roma and Milan to be in there and get that Champions League money.

And I think it's going to shape up for a very interesting race amongst those clubs in the second half of the season on top of the title race.

There's been a little bit of EFL action this week.

Oxford United's unbeaten run under Gary Rowatt is over.

They were beaten 1-0 at Burnley.

We gave Burnley numerous chances to score before doing it ourselves.

An own goal from Michael Hellek.

Another clean sheet for Burnley.

Nine goals conceded in 31 games so far this season.

It's absolutely absurd.

Coventry 0 leads two last night.

Leeds beat the inform Coventry.

They stay top of the championship.

And Barry, you're mac and minute for Billy Balance because there was too much Newcastle for your liking today.

Yeah, far too much Newcastle.

So we topped the show with that so we need to tail it with some sunderland love i thoroughly enjoyed their win over middlesbrough on monday night it was a really really good game um sunderland 1-3-2

the winner came pretty late i think with about three minutes to go uh a ryan giles comedy own goal the ball clanking in off his shins from about eight yards out but um

that the takeout from this game has to be enzo lefey who i'd never heard of a fortnight ago.

He's come in on loan to Sunderland from Roma, and he was

just by a mile the best player on the pitch.

You sometimes see a game where one player is just so much better than everyone else, and he was that guy.

I think if Sunderland get promoted, they're obliged to buy him.

And obviously, now that I've seen him once and he was outstanding, I will expect that level of performance every single game.

Yeah,

because my mind is bleak.

But he was just different gravy to everyone else on the pitch.

He sent in the cross that clanked in off Giles' shins.

He set up Sunderland second with a lovely through ball for Wilson Isidore, who's also been a revelation this season.

And I guess

Reggie LeBrie must know Le Fay from his time at Lorien because that's where he was before he went to Roma.

But

what a player he was in that game anyway.

Long may it continue.

He's a bit of an odd case, Lefe, because he was very much someone who there was a buzz around the signing for Roma in the summer.

But Roma, as just alluded to, had this very chaotic last few months.

And Ghisolfi, the sporting director, who's French sporting director, who's brought in in May, very much his guy, Le Fay, and very much signed in conversation with Daniele De Rossi, who had ideas for how he was going to use him.

De Rossi gets fired, and suddenly there's Yurich there, who doesn't know what to do with him.

So there was a lot of very positive noise about him as a player, and then we barely saw him for the months after De Rossi went.

So fascinating to see him show up in Sunderland and then, as you say, make a really bright start.

Finally, on to any other business, Alex has written in, Dear Pod, on Monday I flew to Denmark solo with my one-year-old daughter and her accompanying kit.

Oh, well done.

Well done to you, Alex.

Five minutes into the flight, the man in front of me spilt his coffee all over the middle seat slash table and i was able to help him by passing him nappy wipes to clear up the mess i later noticed he had chosen to spend the flight doing a detailed analysis of the full match replay of brentford against tottenham which seemed an odd way to spend a flight i assumed he was either a scout or an odd football obsessive until he went to the loo and i realized it was in fact actual brentford manager thomas frank

so yeah i guess sort of a combination of scout and football obsessive in in a way um he asked has anyone on the panel ever managed to assist a Premier League manager in a similar way?

He says, I didn't get an autograph, partly as it seemed rude to bother him, and partly as the only thing I had to hand was a picture book about a mouse and mole flying a kite.

And that actually reminded me, I had to text Max about this because his dad famously got his copy of Plato's Republic signed by Trevor Brooking at a Cambridge match, didn't he?

I'd love to have a collection of

strange autographs

on weird things.

Anyone got anything to add on

helped a Premier League manager out?

I once held a door open for Maurizio Pocciino at Tottenham's training ground and he refused to walk through it until I went before him and

we basically had a door standoff.

How long were you there?

And I often think if I hadn't capitulated, he might still be the Spurs manager.

He's not quite a Premier League manager, but I did a really good, well, I say really good, I had a really fun day doing a behind-the-scenes piece with Robbie Savage at Macclesfield earlier in the season for The Guardian.

And oh, yeah, we built up a really nice rapport.

And my wife and I, one of the things we love doing is going to watch local non-league football.

So we're big on the Northern Premier League West division.

I saw a player play for Natwich Town.

I thought, oh, maybe Robbie Savage might like to have a look at him for Macclesfield.

So I texted him my recommendation and never heard anything back.

So, you know, I tried to help a manager and was completely blanked.

No wonder your wife has her own bedroom if that's what you're doing in your legend.

She's a lucky, lucky lady.

I think we can all agree on that.

Um, that'll do for today.

Um, my pay thanks to Barry, thank you, thank you, Nikki, thanks, and thank you, Sam.

You can pop your Tottenham scarf on now.

Uh, you're welcome.

Thank you, all.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Phil Maynard.

We'll be back tomorrow.

This is The Guardian.