Manchester United upset the odds at Anfield – Football Weekly

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

What a game at Anfield and what a performance from Manchester United.

They occasionally turn up when you least expect it.

Harry Maguire, get over it.

But well done to Ruben Amarim.

A great point.

Maybe they'll stay up after all.

And then on to the balanced and even Ange Postacoglu, a man who famously will never criticise the officials.

As a handball hater, I've done the hypocritical mental gymnastics to somehow think that Joel Inton should be penalised.

Five wins in a row now for Eddie Howe and that brilliant midfield.

While we're on decisions, can you foul someone with your head?

Yes, did William Saliba foul Jal Pedro with his head?

Feels a little unlucky, but more drop points for Arsenal.

Same goes for Chelsea, who have really wobbled as soon as people started asking if we should start taking them seriously in a title race.

Man City ride their luck early, but then realized it was West Ham.

They were playing.

Lots of fun and loads of penalties between Fulham and Ipkwitch at Craven Cottage.

Can you get away with it while losing 5-0?

Southampton, give that a try.

And there are wonderful goals from David Brooks and Ross Barkley as Bournemouth and Villa both win.

There's more Football Weekly, Chinese diplomatic relations, plus your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glendenning.

Good morning.

Hello, Max.

Welcome, Jacob Steinberg.

Hello.

And hello, Paul McInnes.

Hi, Max.

Happy New Year.

And to you, let's start at Anfield.

Then Liverpool 2, Manchester United 2.

Brilliant second half.

Manchester United much better than anyone predicted.

It was a brilliant game, I thought, Barry.

Just sort of well done to everyone.

I'd like to congratulate them all for putting on some entertainment.

Yeah, I really enjoyed this.

It was as a neutral.

I'm going to say as a neutral, who was kind of hoping Manchester United would get thumped.

But

fair play to them.

I did mention on Thursday they have it in their locker to turn up for a game like this, as they showed last season on two occasions and in the cup final against Man City.

So while I was surprised they were as good as they were, it wasn't a massive surprise to see them raise their game to the level they did because

Let's not forget they may be a bit of a shambles as a team, but these are all very good footballers, most of them anyway.

I think they they probably should have won it in the end.

Old Harry ballooning that ball over the bar.

I'm going to be charitable and say it took a bobble, and maybe he should have left it for Garnacho, who was in acres of space behind him, and you'd be more confident he'd put it away.

But anyway,

he didn't score, and the draw is probably the fair result.

But a thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyable game.

Trent Alexander Arnold seems to be being scapegoated

for Liverpool's various shortcomings, which is fair and unfair insofar as he did not have a good game by

any standards, let alone his own fairly lofty standards.

But I do think he was left horribly exposed, didn't get any help when it was clear he was being targeted by Inanna,

by Fernandez and and Diogo Dalot.

Inanna?

Was Inanna sort of like pacing out going, I could get past Trent?

No, I mean I think he was pushing the ball along down that side more often than he would usually do.

It would take great presence of mind, Jacob, for Harry Maguire at that moment to dummy it, to say, actually, I'm not as good as the guy who's behind me.

But I've seen some people giving Xerxe a bit of stick for sort of bobbling that pass or not shooting himself.

It feels really harsh, doesn't it?

If he'd shot and missed it, then he'd probably be getting stick as well.

And he gave the guy an open goal and he put it over the bar.

I suppose the one saving grace was was it slightly offside?

Was Berserks the offside, which might have made it all moot anyway?

So maybe Harry Maguire gets let off for that.

I think United played far better than anybody expected.

I think it's been really interesting over the last few weeks that there's been a sort of I think a real rush to take down Amarim.

You know all the criticism over his sticking to the 3-4-3 and people wondering

why he's doing that.

Do they have the squad for it?

And obviously, probably yesterday was probably the first time that it really looked like it, and probably the first time that anybody ever saw

Diego Dallo going past somebody while playing at left wing back.

But I've just found it a bit weird when we know that United have been a real state before he came in.

Everybody knows that the club needs major surgery in so many different places.

And straight away, there's been this, I feel just a rush to

say, you know, is this guy all we thought him

cracked up to be and everything?

And

just a few weeks before, I know that City weren't playing that well, but a few weeks before

his sporting Lisbon side had smashed Manchester City 4-4-1.

And, you know, he's won titles in Portugal

in a difficult league with a team that hadn't won the title for such a long time.

So I was sort of glad for him that they were able to put together a performance after such a horrible run of form.

And he was able to show actually maybe he does know what he's doing when it comes to

the tactical side of things because I think that they probably did a bit of a number on Liverpool yesterday.

They seem to surprise them in so many different parts of the pitch.

Yeah, I suppose it feels like a rite of passage for any foreign manager, doesn't it?

You know, bald, fraud, pep, etc.

You know, just you come here with your three centre-backs and see what happens.

I mean, did you, obviously, Paul, Ogate and Fernandez being back helps, right?

You heard afterwards Lessandre Martinez saying, look, this is, you know, a lot of it is just sort of mentally.

You know, the fact that United have managed to be up for this game and the city game and then be sort of pretty useless in the other ones.

I always find it strange that elite footballers aren't just up for every game, given it's what they should be doing, right?

Yeah, I agree.

I agree.

It does seem strange.

I think one of the things we probably

don't take into account often enough when we talk about these things is the attitude of the opposition and the effect the opposition can have on a team.

So I think one of the reasons that United were able to dominate the second half is because they grew into the game and they caught, you know, they started at a level which was better than you'd would have expected, but wasn't excellent.

But they were able to keep themselves tight.

They weren't overexposed in the first half and that obviously gave them confidence.

So and I think you know, Liverpool went that might suggest that Liverpool went into that game thinking, oh, maybe we can knock these guys over.

Obviously, all the talk before the game had been that.

So, you know, these things are a dynamic that are fluid inside and out of the games.

But I think Jacob's entirely right about what's been said about Amarim.

He's barely in the door.

He's taken, as far as I can see, a lot of pains to play down himself as

any kind of messiah or indeed even the most important man in the Manchester United machine.

You know, he seems to be sending messages that are quite balanced, I think, and quite carefully chosen.

But yeah, he's going to get it.

He's going to get it, whatever.

You know, I suppose that on any given week, he's not Ange Poster Coglu.

That might be the one consolation you can take.

We'll get to Ange, of course we will.

I think the most impressive thing for me, Barry, was, you know, I loved Martinez's goal.

And then Liverpool get back into it.

And then they get that penalty.

Did like Delicht saying, no, my hand was by my side.

You know, straight afterwards, he was like, no, no, no, it was down here, Your Honor.

But for United to get back, I just was, I was certain at 2-1, that was it.

However well United had played and, you know, Anana had a good game as well.

And Alison made some good saves, and it was sort of pretty even.

I just didn't think Manchester United would get back into it, and to have that resolve to get back into it, it felt to me the most impressive thing.

Yeah, they've shown resilience, and it's something that's been conspicuous by their apps by its absence from most of their performance this season.

The worry now is, is it just they got up for this game because it was Liverpool?

Alan Shearer said on Match of the Day, you know, this has to be the base point now, that this is is the minimum requirement.

And I don't think it's a coincidence that this good performance came at the end of the first full week Amarim had to work with the players without

having to prepare for a game in midweek.

He has another week now before they go to Arsenal and the Cup next week.

No doubt they'll try to rouse themselves to that one.

Southampton at home the week after.

That'll be a bit of an acid test, although Southampton are so bad.

It's difficult to imagine them posing any sort of threat.

Then they've Brighton at home, Rangers, and Fulham.

So, you know, we'll get a better idea of where they are after those games, I guess.

But, yeah, a good goal by Diallo, who I'm a huge fan of since his time at Sunderland when he was just sensational

when he was there on loan.

And again, Lissandro Martinez afterwards, you know, pointed to his head, said it was all in the mind.

And I wonder if maybe the reason Joshua Xerxe didn't try his shot when that chance fell to him is maybe because

the fact he got cheered off at Old Trafford in his previous game, having been hooked in the first half, maybe that was on his mind and he didn't want to risk incurring the wrath of Manchester United fans.

So maybe that abuse they meted out to them.

him has come back to bite them a little bit.

I could well be reading far too much into it, but it did cross mind at the time.

One thing I wanted to note was the significant section of the away fans cheering Xerxe onto the pitch this time and chanting his name, which I think

may not have got through to the player.

And I think Barry's point is astute, but I think it's also reflective on something I'm always noticing around football grounds, you know, the different dynamic between home fans and away fans, and particularly United fans, their away corps is so supportive.

So I think that was a good thing to hear and the right thing to do.

This may be a little bit silly, but I just wondered, you know, given they're top of the league and scoring tons and tons of goals, but I just wondered from this match, you know, whether Liverpool's front three combination, whether they've still

trying to work that out a little bit.

I mean, obviously, sell our player of the season by a long way, but it's sort of pulling them along.

Gakpo becoming ever more reliable, but who fits in that?

central position.

I think you've got three players

constantly auditioning for it without anybody really sealing the place.

And I I think that maybe

let Liverpool down a little bit in a game where it's high stakes and highly competitive standards yesterday.

Yeah, actually, Jotter had that chance, which quite often scores just after Lenny Yorrod and that brilliant, amazingly time tackle.

Brilliant tackle.

Really, really late on.

Just from a Liverpool point of view, Jacob,

I guess if you're doing so well and your six-point was clear with the game in hand, you can be quite honest after a game when you've played badly.

But it was quite refreshing just to hear lots of players saying, yeah, we weren't that good.

And slot to say, look, Trent Alexander Arnold didn't have his greatest game, but it's not the end of the world.

It's rare to see a team come out and all go, ah, it wasn't great, but it's okay.

Yeah, I mean, the whole thing around them this season has been that they've been probably the most controlled, calmest side club in the Premier League.

But

at the same time,

as good as they've been, and they have been the best team

in the league this season,

I mean, I don't think that at the moment, as well as Slot has done, and he's done brilliantly, probably way better than anybody thought he would do.

and

people

some people I've guessed probably even thought what will they get in the top four at the start of the season unsure about whether a guy from Holland was going to do this well the 10 hard comparisons and everything I'm not sure that they're

at the same time I'm saying this while they're top of the Champions League league

that they're quite as good or

reliable as the very best Klopp sides a few years ago.

I don't think they're quite as solid.

I think they've started conceding a few more goals than they were probably at the start of the season.

And there have been these moments throughout the season where they've gone through these rough patches in games and fallen behind at certain points.

And they've come back, you know, Brighton at home, Fulham at home, they were behind in that.

Leicester at home, go behind in this one as well.

I mean, even

the West Ham game, which

went very badly for West Ham.

West Ham could have gone 1-0 up.

They had a chance just before it goes 2-0

for its 1-0 to hit the post.

And there are these little moments.

And yesterday,

whether Arsenal might take a bit of encouragement from seeing a team so clearly target Trent, whether the whole thing with Real Madrid making the bid in the week before such a big game, all the growing talk

around his contract and what's going to come over the next few months just really played into his

played into his mindset going into this because he was not only was he terrible defensively he was weirdly bad on the ball as well.

Which sometimes he's terrible defensively, but you get all the other parts of his game which make him such a unique and brilliant player.

Yesterday, there was none of that.

I was quite surprised that he wasn't taken off well before he did come off for Conor Bradley, who actually, I think, when he came on, improved them and was got to grips a bit more with the situation.

Then you've got on the other side of it as well.

I do think that Andy Robertson is starting to look a little bit weary.

He's had some bad moments in recent weeks.

He was just that little bit off Diallo

on the equaliser as well.

He started to have some really weird moments in stoppage time as well, where I can't remember who he was holding on to, but held onto the guy for about half a minute before giving away the free kick in very weird defending.

And

there seemed to be a lot to do yesterday for the two centre-backs.

Van Dijk seemed to be having to do a lot more than he usually would.

So, you know, there are, I suppose, little bits where you wonder: is this as done as as maybe people thought it was after Arsenal drew on Saturday evening?

You know, Liverpool have the game in hand.

The game in hand is Everton away.

That's probably as kind of awkward as yesterday was.

They've got some difficult, you know, the next three away games, I think, Brentford, Forest, Bournemouth.

I think there are moments where this could potentially turn and it's not quite as done as people think.

We'll get to Arsenal's game in a minute.

Before that, we'll go to the early kickoff on Saturday.

Spurs won Newcastle 2.

Nigel says, is Ange that likable, funny, easy-going Aussie you meet on the first day of your holiday that turns into a moaning dickhead by the end of it?

I did read that to a room of Australians this morning who all found it funny before our Australian audience yell at us.

After the game, he used a version of the phrase, if all things were equal, nine times in an interview with the BBC.

All I'll say that on any other day, on a fair and even playing ground, we would have won that game, simple as that.

And don't keep asking me about the decision.

If you guys have no opinion about it, that's fine.

I know what my opinion is.

And as I said, if it was a different day and if it was an even and fair playing ground, we would have won that game.

What I'm saying is on any given day with a fair and even playing field and logical thought processes, we would have won that game.

That's it.

You can make what you want of it.

I don't know what else to say.

Meanwhile, Barry, on in November 2023, Ange said, decisions are decisions.

You either accept it or you don't.

If we're going to go out and complain about bad decisions every week, What will happen is what happened today, a forensic study of every decision.

That's the way the game is going.

In my 26 years as manager,

I was always ready to accept the referee's decision, good, bad, or otherwise.

I've had some shockers in my career, let me tell you.

And I've had some go my way as well.

Premier League managers should just manage their football clubs.

I've never and I never will talk to referees about the rules of the game.

I was taught that you grow up and respect the officials.

Your thoughts?

Well, as he won't elaborate on what he was talking about in the repeated post-match interviews in which he spoke about level playing fields and all things being equal and balanced i can only guess that he was upset with uh

newcastle's opening goal being allowed despite uh lucas bergville pass upfield hitting the hand of joe linton and uh

allowing newcastle to break forward and score

now whether you like it or not uh according to the letter of the law that is a handball or that is not a handball, because Joel Linton didn't score the goal.

So

that's, you know, whatever your thoughts on the handball law, and we all seem to think, be fairly unanimous in thinking they're ridiculous, that was the correct decision.

There is an argument that Dan Burns should have been sent off for two yellows.

His second was a quite blatant handball.

So, yeah, that's probably fair enough.

And what was the third?

Oh, a Joel Linton sort of forearm smash, I I think, on Bergval as well,

which possibly was an orangey-red card.

So, I guess they're the decisions he's unhappy with.

One of them was correct, two of them were sort of 50-50.

So, I don't have much sympathy for him there.

And

while Spurs played quite well, I think Newcastle were worthy winners of this game.

Spurs got loads and loads of crosses into the Newcastle box.

Porrow, Kulusewski, Madison, Brennan Johnson, Reggie On were all

sending in crosses, but they weren't able to convert any of them.

So that's a problem for Spurs.

And we have to add the caveat that due to illness and injury, it was a very make-do in men Spurs lineup, particularly their defence with Brandon Austin in goal making his debut for the club after, I've heard, 17, seven, nine years at the club.

I don't know how many years he's been at the club, but this was his first actual senior game of football in four years.

Yeah.

And he did quite well.

Just on that, yeah, he's had 14 games on loan at Vyborg in 2019-20.

Five games on loan at Orlando City in 2021.

It's now 2025, Paul.

What an odd life.

Yeah.

I think just an odd existence.

Yeah, and probably as a goalkeeper, because of the three, the third goalkeeper, Scott Carson Memorial kind of position, then you might have a different mentality than an outfield player when you're a keeper as to what sort of minutes you should expect or whether you need to be playing because there's an important goalkeeping role that is always the one that's sat on the bench.

But yeah, I think you're not really going to develop, you know, playing under the sort of pressure that you're playing under in that game, which I agree with Barry, I thought he stood up to reasonably well.

You know, that is not something you can practice in training.

That's only something you get from a match experience.

And yeah, you would have thought.

But again, there are some people who just forge a career as the second goalkeeper, and maybe that's what he's going to be.

He's had 78

appearances on the bench without getting on the pitch under seven different Tottenham managers.

The stories he could tell.

Yeah, it's a strange way.

I mean, just amazingly sort of, he'll be amazingly well remunerated for doing sort of nothing, but at the same time, having to keep himself in incredible shape for no reason.

It's just strange.

On that handball, Jacob, and maybe humour me, because I hate all handball penalties.

I just think there are too many.

I just think that punishment is too big for the crime.

So it seems hypocritical to me to say, I don't think Newcastle should benefit that much from that ball hitting Joel Linton's hand.

So I agree with Barry.

The decision is correct under the laws of the game.

But just as a football fan, and I'm not objective in this, it feels wrong that

Newcastle should go and score from that moment.

where if it doesn't hit his hand, Spurs probably beat the press.

And also, if Joe Linton just takes a touch and puts it in the top corner, then it is a handball.

So I just hate the fact that sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.

But you're by all means telling me I'm a myopic hypocrite.

Yeah, I kind of thought it was handball when I saw it.

I guess the bigger thing for Tottenham is that they did, although I thought it was handball, at the same time, they kind of have played themselves into trouble as well.

You know, the guy is a Bergvale, it's Bergvale, wasn't it?

Who's stretching?

He's sort of been played a slightly heavy pass just outside the area and he's having to stretch and play a sort of risky ball past the Newcastle

midfielder.

And if it goes slightly to right or left, whatever it is, then it hits him on the thigh and there's no debate at all.

And we're just talking about the fact that Spurs have played themselves into trouble a minute after taking the lead.

I think in a game in which people actually went into it thinking they're going to get stuffed here because of the injuries and the form and the way that Newcastle been playing just beaten United away.

Instead, they go 1-0 up and straight away they're getting themselves into a bit of bother.

Ange is, you know, all the stuff that you talked about before, you know, in November 23, he was this new, interesting guy who said fun things in press conferences and played football that was a breath of fresh air, especially after Conte and Mourinho.

Now he's a manager who's losing every week and he's talking in a different way.

You know, pretty much like any other manager who loses.

every week.

They start making weird references to things that are out to get them and

sort of take a bit of, you know, they can take a bit of encouragement from the way that they played in the second half at, you know, at 2-1.

They came, you know, they had the chances to come back and equalise.

And I think when you went into that second half with what a back four of Region, Spence, Gray and Porrow against Isaac and Gordon, probably people were thinking this is going to be four or five-1.

And instead,

they could have got something out of it.

But ultimately, it's a defeat which you kind of take some positives, but it's still just another defeat for Tottenham and the record since november twenty-three is pretty terrible.

It's getting harder and harder and they've got this game on

on Wednesday, the the semi-final.

So much hinges on that it feels like now for And because all I'm seeing really is Tottenham fans tearing into him now.

A lot of them seem very fed up.

I suppose the interesting thing will always be that when this happens, how long before they really really start turning on on Daniel Levy because that always feels like the moment at which it starts to become really problematic for the manager.

And while I don't think that Andrew at the moment is doing a fantastic job, I do think he's been slightly hamstrung by the choices that Tottenham have made in the

transfer market in the last couple of years.

They don't have much depth.

For the way that they play, the high-octane stuff, all the injuries that they're getting,

there's not the people really to come in and keep the level at

the same pitch for them.

When they're at their best, when they've got the full team out, they do look like a team that can compete for the top six they don't really have the depth to compete with um on on that on that level and that that ultimately probably comes back to what the fans are saying around the board yeah um it worth pointing out that probably the most egregious decision was kulasevsky shoulder ring anthony gordon in the face which almost certainly should have been a penalty for newcastle which probably didn't come into you know andre's considered even and balanced chat after the game.

Look, five wins in a row for Newcastle, Paul.

I think it's really interesting that

I don't know if they are the fifth best team in the Premier League.

They're on great form.

I think, like a lot of players' teams, if they lose Isaac to injury, not necessarily selling him or that midfield that they found a real balance of, then they may not stay there.

But I just think there are lots of teams that could end up going on a run and finishing fifth or even fourth, actually.

And that race for the Champions League is really exciting.

Yeah, it is really exciting.

And the depth of the Premier League continues to get stronger.

You know, I've argued this for a long time.

I think the Premier League has consistently been improving.

And I think you can visibly see that now.

I just think for Newcastle,

I mean, Isaac is such a difference maker, but I agree with you about that midfield.

And I just think the contrast between those three players who

have a mixture of abilities, each of them, and some of them are,

Guimaraes is

perhaps the best passer, and Tenali is perhaps the most dynamic.

And

Joe Linton is obviously somebody who is a a great physical presence but they've all got a bit of it all got a bit of each and they combine so well and I just think when you put that kind of commanding unit up against that piecemeal midfield which is you know at best at any given game for Spurs it's always going to be a mixture that's sort of you know picked in order to try and facilitate as many attacking players as you can in front of or include you know it it this is a unit that worked out of its own that's been built to do what it does and it's clearly effective in Premier League football in a way that's necessary and i think when you look at spurs and you see that is what you are missing you do not have enough physical capability to kind of dominate a game against a strong opponent and newcastle showed that on saturday and and that's why i think if you're a newcastle fan you know as well as good as well as you know a reliable defense and as well as gordon and he's at you've got that fulcrum now to build a team around and i think that's as good as anybody's midfield outside of the top you know you could even compare it to arsenal's midfield really i think yeah yeah i agree and actually when you've got gordon and Hall down the left and Jacob Murphy playing like he is, you know, if they keep all those players fit, depth, I think, is an issue for them too.

But, you know, they could do really well.

All right, that'll do for part one.

Part two, we'll begin with Brighton's draw with Arsenal.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Back to some more decisions.

Michael says, will they be handing out tinfoil hats at the next Arsenal home game?

Duffney says, I don't want to be an Arsenal whiny prick that I know you guys probably can't stand, but I am one.

Have you ever seen a clash of heads called for a penalty in your lives?

Have you ever seen two yellows in one phase?

That was against Wolves, what, two years ago, was it?

Will we ever see kicking the ball away given a yellow, etc., etc.?

It's an odd one, that penalty.

I think, Barry, you and I agree.

My immediate reaction was penalty, because you can fail some with your head.

But Salibi gets a bit of the ball.

So, I sort of think Arsenal are a bit unlucky there.

I initially thought it was a penalty because I hadn't realized that Saliba

touched the ball with his head, so that kind of renders it moot.

But if it had if the ball hadn't touched his head, then definitely, yeah, it's a penalty because you know it was an accidental head butt, but a headbutt nonetheless, so it's a foul.

But because the ball touched his head, then

it shouldn't have been a penalty.

And I get the impression, admittedly, from listening to Moni Arsenal fans, that

Varr made the decision so quickly they might not have realised the ball touched his head.

So that could be an error on their part.

That aside,

I thought the draw was probably a fair result.

Brighton were much better in the second half.

The first half was very boring.

Really tedious watch.

Lots of slow, ponderous build-up from both teams, no cutting edge, and then Ethan Laneri

scored the goal, running onto that Merino ball over Purvis Estepinan.

Cutting inside in a sacker-like fashion and scoring through Bart Verbruggin, who should definitely have done better than that.

But

I think the key thing in this game was that Fabian Herzler made changes at halftime,

realised that Brighton didn't need to be as cautious as they had been and when Arteta made changes his weren't as effective as Herzler's.

So I would say draw entirely for a result and Brighton were probably the better team overall.

And Jacob actually in the same way that you know Spurs should look at playing out in that moment that leads to that handball or not.

Is there a bigger issue for an Arsenal?

It's not the penalty, it's the fact they're in a position where they're only 1-0 up.

And loads of people got in touch, Arsenal fans and non-Arsenal fans, about the fact that they're they're sort of already time wasting you know after like 20 minutes they had you know they've had nine they picked up their ninth booking for time wasting this season at Brighton the next closest team have three so so like this idea that they are you know they go one nil up and they try and shut up shop and short Arsenal have done that successfully many many years ago but the fact that they left themselves in a position to be for Brighton to equalize is it should be the bigger issue is what they should be focusing on yeah I mean I kind of feel like with arsenal that their absolute top level makes them the best team in the league when everything is going for them i feel like they're they're better than than they're than liverpool and they've shown that in very isolated moments this season and they probably should have had a league title to show for it in the last couple of years but i think that liverpool ultimately have more ways of winning a game more ways of killing a game the more they're more explosive um in attack and i think that most of you probably take most of liverpool's even probably some of their reserves and and you'd say they'd probably get into Arsenal's front three.

Obviously, Saka plays in Salah's position, so a bit of a toss up there.

But it seems like they've gone so far away from what made them great to watch in

that first season that they challenged for the title, so far towards this kind of more grinding physical team that's very focused on how good that defence is.

But it's put a lot of pressure on the defence to be perfect all the time and that nothing can ever go wrong.

These little moments that just keep happening throughout the season, the rice red card and

this odd penalty, whether or not you think it was or wasn't, then ultimately against the team they should be beating.

It happens.

And it's sort of, you take it and you go, well, actually, a draw at Brighton are a good team on its own, it's probably not that bad a result when you add it into all these other little moments.

We go, okay, well, Fulham, again, it's not that bad a result, but it's just

seems to keep accumulating.

Every time they have a few little, very good

results, you know, they smash Nottingham Forest,

win at Brentford, one of the few teams that have won at Brentford this season.

It just keeps being followed up by not even a defeat, it's just always a frustrating draw.

And I think it just comes back to just it seems they've lost a little bit of that attacking spark

over

the last year.

Again,

obviously, just some of the signings that they've made,

they've not improved their attack.

There's been a huge focus on bringing in a lot of defensive players.

The Mourinho signing now is causing a bit of a debate, I see, amongst Arsenal fans whether he was the player that they needed, whether he's doing enough.

And ultimately, they're very reliant on, seeing that they're very reliant on Saka and Odegaard, which is fair enough.

They're both brilliant, but the other players, you just feel they're not quite doing enough, Jesus, Havertz, Trossard, to keep them at the pace that Liverpool are going at.

Man City for West Ham won Paul a Man City back?

No I imagine not but it's a help it's a step in the right direction and you could certainly sort of you know they they they benefited from uh a deflection to get to get on the way I think you know Kufal and Savinho that was a sort of the key jewel of the game and it and it it went it swung in city's favour after that first goal which was an OG

but after that

you know the deliveries coming from that left-hand side were the sort of things that

Erling Haaland feasts on and feasts on them.

He did.

That header back across goal was just enormous.

And you could see them sort of slightly getting back into

the groove of finding their grooves again.

I think still so much depends on city

and how they knit the play with their forwards and what sort of positions they find their forwards in.

And

that has got to mean that Kevin De Bruyne, you know, plays and starts as many matches as possible and is on form when he did.

And so it was good to see him sort of winning that game.

Everybody's always anticipated that City would come back and that at the very least they'll finish in the top four.

But at the same time, as Jacob is in a far better position to attest, I think they probably would have

thought, despite

a recent improvement, upwards tick in form from West Ham, that they're exactly the sort of opponents they would want to face when they wanted to get that back-to-back win.

So, yeah, I mean, I guess we see where they go from here.

Yeah, I mean, Savini Avisoufoud feels very much like you've turned up on Sunday League and your oldest player is playing right-back and their best player is playing left-wing.

And you're like, oh, we're screwed here because

it's just not fair.

From a West Ham point of view, I guess, Jacob, like first 10, 15 minutes, you actually had...

Like, you got through, Neil.

Kudos got hit the side netting.

Such had that chance.

Somerville was like harshly judged to have fouled someone when he got through.

I think it was 1-0 at the time.

So, you showed some sparks and then you didn't.

Yeah, I mean, I didn't, I only saw the highlights.

Um,

I was at a game, but um, someone was saying to me that they thought that it was actually the best that they've played under Lopoteggi, but ultimately, uh, they keep getting smashed this season and

they created chances, but they created chances against a Manchester City team that,

well, it just can't really defend at the moment.

and

they did that but still look very very vulnerable defensively despite over the last two summers spending millions on centre-backs and Aaron Wan-Bissaka as well coming in.

It's all very confused.

The fans are fed up and

I think that they missed an opportunity to just make the change a month ago after they lost to Leicester and basically they've botched the season.

I don't think they'll go down although without Bowen, who really actually probably has kept Lopotegi in a job with the crucial goals that he's just come up with and assists he's come up with in a few of those must-win games at certain points.

Now he's out for a couple of months.

It's going to be interesting to see whether actually they're able to

get those results that just seem to keep them ticking over and keep them just away from that relegation picture.

Yeah, it felt like Lopoteggi, you know, we've got past his eight minutes to save his job and now it's kind of safe with anything really dramatically changing yeah but they've got um obviously the villa and villa are away in the cup on friday night nobody's expecting much and then and and then they've got the this next week they've got fulham at home and palace at home uh

two games that they'll sort of go into thinking well fans will go into it thinking and the board will be thinking what minimum four points they've got to win those games and i can see it if if they if those games go wrong and they actually don't have a very good record against either team,

even though they're deemed to be sort of smaller fry than West Ham in the London pecking order.

I can see it turning, again, very nasty.

David Moyes was an interested observer at this game.

Are you reading anything into that, Jacob?

So is Steve Cooper.

Dream team.

Maybe the two at the same time.

Like Evans and Juliet.

Charlie says, do we finally have enough evidence to decide whether Ralph Hassenhutl was any good at Southampton?

Barry.

God, that could be the biggest hospital pass you've ever thrown me, Max.

They are an absolute mess.

I mean, at least under Russell Martin, you could see what they were trying to do.

It just wasn't working.

Watching this game,

they were all over the place.

It was like kids watching small children run around chasing the ball.

Everyone out of position, no shape.

Brentford won 5-0

I think that score really flatters Southampton we're all waiting for the day Southampton can cede 10 and I think Brentford passed up an opportunity to go into double figures in this game you cannot see them mounting any sort of escape

after that.

They're just an absolute shambles.

We said at the start of the season that they didn't have good enough players, and

now we know we were right.

They're a mess.

And it was a brilliant performance by Brentford.

And I think Thomas Franks seemed genuinely blown away afterwards by how good his side had been.

That's the first away win in the league this season.

I think they had one against Colchester in the Carabao Cup, but I would imagine Colchester probably better than Southampton.

It was a tougher game, wasn't it, at the Western Holmes Community Stadium, if that's where Colchester still play.

Yeah, I mean, actually, the greatest bit of this game, and there will be Rentford fans who are furious that we haven't talked.

Look, Mbomo and Whistle were great.

They scored some lovely goals in this.

Damn's God had a great game.

But after the game, and it's done the rounds on social media, everyone's seen it.

This guy who I think used to work for both these clubs, Jacob, brought his mum, who doesn't know anything about football to the game.

And she predicted a 5-0 defeat to Southampton, but was in hospitality at St.

Mary's.

And then they wheeled out Adam Armstrong to give her either, was it his shirt from the game or just a signed shirt?

But it's an amazing, it's an amazing moment to go, just, just don't, you don't need a player there, just for this game, surely.

Yeah, yeah.

And he played in the game as well.

So, um, you know, unbelievable.

Uh, I was talking to a Southampton fan about it, and yeah, he just said it's summed them up, shambles of the club at the moment.

So it was, it was so good, funny, and she sort of danced up, and her son was like booing her, and people actually there found it quite funny.

Obviously, then social media, there were some Southampton fans saying she was responsible for the 5-0 defeat.

You're like,

this is a step too far.

She wasn't playing centre-back.

And actually, you know, they probably couldn't have done any worse.

Anyway, yeah, well done to Brentford on that.

Fulham to Ipswich 2.

I thought, in as much as Fulham-Ipswich can be thrilling, Paul, that this was thrilling, this game.

Yeah, no, it was.

It was a good game.

I mean, you know, Ipswich really, really put Fulham under pressure.

And Fulham were perhaps one of the form teams, one of the form teams of the division going into this game.

And,

you know,

it shows where

Ipswich are in this cycle right now that they're starting to believe that they can do it.

I mean, maybe I'm sure they've always believed in themselves, but in this moment, they're believing they can do it.

And, yeah, I mean, I thought Smodich, Delap again, Leif Davidson going forward were, you know, we're dangerous players.

And, but, you know,

the thing about

silver teams is that they're resolute and they will keep going.

And uh, you know, I think in the end, the draw was a fair result.

Yeah, probably.

I mean, that was an important caveat of going forward when you mentioned Leif Davis there, who's sort of very much the Trent Alexander Arnold of Ipswich Town left backs.

But um, I felt for him a bit, Barry, because he'd done that run to overlap to give Jack Clark the chance to take a shot, which hits the post, and then he's got to get all the way back.

And it's such a tired leg that fouls Ral Jimenez.

Yes, it's what Gary Neville calls a lazy leg and

he knew you know

it was these things happen.

I mean there's a question over whether he should have still been on the field or not because

Marco Silva was furious when he wasn't sent off in the first half.

What did you think of that?

What did you think?

I think he probably did deny a goal scoring opportunity, but other opinions are available, I'm sure.

Darrow Shea,

I don't think he was close enough.

And Fulham have had a similar incident at Anfield this season where

Andy Robertson did get sent off for a more or less identical offence.

So, you know, all we want is consistency, Clive.

Yeah, it was unfortunate.

It's a problem for Ipswich.

They keep conceding late, late goals, and it keeps costing them points.

I believe they have gone ahead in, I think it's nine or ten games this season so far, and only won three of them.

So I think they should have more points than they do,

but they're doing okay and I think they'll probably stay up because they are improving with each performance.

Yeah, I mean that Harry Wilson moment, it calls for the Paul Doyle law regards to our former colleague, you know, just give a penalty for that.

No red card, no debate, but like just give a penalty.

Because this game needed more penalties, of course.

yes um i uh jacob i love liam de la so much you know like even just the way he hit that penalty there's just something about him that makes me think he will be you know he is the next 100 goal england striker yeah he looks he looks really good i mean i'm surprised i'm glad he's at hip switch because i'd i i'd like them to stay up and he's probably their best hope of doing that but i'm surprised that when he was available that there wasn't uh any other premier league club looking looking to to bring him in i mean i'm I'm looking at my own team with Fulcrug up front and thinking that this young English striker might have been a better bet.

And

it's all that interesting thing of

all those Manchester City players who have gone as well.

But it's going to be, obviously, this was the first weekend where Thomas Tuchel was at games.

I think he went to three games

across the weekend.

Wouldn't have been at this one because he was at Liverpool yesterday, but you would imagine that Liam DeLap for that first March squad is going to have a really good chance of getting into the squad, whether or not that's with Solanke and Watkins as well.

We'll see.

But

he's just very.

He reminds me a bit of the, without the sort of playmaking ability, but of the young Harry Kane and just the kind of, I don't know how quick he is, but when he gets going, he's really powerful, really hard to stop, and he's strong.

And that's a bit what Kane was like

in his early 20s before, I guess,

all those ankle injuries took him apart.

And

the way he hit that penalty yesterday was incredible.

It was very satisfying to watch the way he took it.

Yeah, I did wonder if Tuchel, how Tuchel got from Tottenham to Brighton.

Do you think he walked to Seven Sisters and then got down to

King's Cross and then just got the

Thames link down to Brighton?

Or do you think he was in a little helicopter?

Then he'd have to go to Farmer, wouldn't he?

And stand in the queue.

Do you think he stood in the queue of Brighton station with all the Arsenal fans waiting for the 10-minute train to Farmer?

Probably.

I mean, I'm not sure he even wanted to be at that game.

I think it was just for optics because there was only two English players on the pitch when the game started, as far as I know.

Noanieri and

Lewis Dunk.

Was Lewis Dunk playing?

Declan Rice?

No, Lewis Dunk didn't play.

Oh, Declan Rice, yeah.

Declan Rice.

Yeah.

How you forget Declan Rice as an Englishman there, Barry.

We know.

We know the agenda.

It is real, isn't it?

Also, like Calvin Bassey's really Sunday league clearance there

that went straight to Sammy's Moddix there.

He tried to kick that so hard, got so little purchase on it.

Right, that'll do for part two.

Part three, we'll begin at Selhurst Park.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Palace 1, Chelsea 1.

Jacob, you were there.

Did you have a nice time?

Yep, I did have a nice time.

It was a good game.

Chelsea should have won, but they're very frustrating at the moment.

They were excellent for about half an hour,

dominated most of the first half.

Nicholas Jackson is going through a bit of a rut at the moment.

I really like Jackson.

I know he gets a bit of stick at times but he's such a handful and his goal record is pretty good this season and actually his goal involvement record is pretty good this season.

So

when people say that Chelsea they're a top striker away from challenging for the title I think that actually he's

he may get there.

His return is pretty good for what it is, but he's going through a bit of a bad spell at the moment.

One goal in six, and he missed three or four chances that would have just killed the game off on Saturday.

And then some of the others that the wingers,

Sancho had a very good game both with and without the ball, worked hard,

which is something that was probably held against him at Manchester United.

He helped Coca-Cola a lot because Munoz is a really dangerous player for Palace on the right.

But

the support players I guess just aren't quite doing enough alongside Cole Palmer so there's still that big reliance on on him to to come up with everything obviously scored again it was a great assist from Sancho but then they just I don't know that is it mentality fitness maybe

he doesn't but they they it's the another game I think Everton, Fulham and now this, where they've been outplayed in the second half and they've not really been able to react to it.

I guess partly that's a little bit down to some of the players that they're missing.

I do think they're missing Lavia who's been really, really good for them this season and Fafana being out is a blow because the centre-backs who are coming in for him aren't really quite as good.

But there's an interesting dynamic at the moment with Maresca in that he's not really making any substitutions.

And

we've got a small squad, Jacob, haven't they?

They just don't have enough.

He says they've got a small squad, yeah.

But I mean, look, the size of their squad is...

Does he actually...

No, No, he says they've got a normally sized squad,

which I think is fair enough.

You know, he, look, there are players who just aren't involved.

But I think it's more that I don't think he trusts some of the players to...

I think that the first 11, maybe the first 13, 14 players,

are very, very good.

And then once it goes beyond it, I'm not sure he thinks that the level will stay the same.

So he's really hanging on in games before he makes a change.

On Saturday, it was the 81st minute before he just made a like for like of took Jackson off for Mark Guyu, Guiu another striker

kept Nkunku and Jiao Felix on the bench

didn't maybe try to bolster the midfield with Vega he got a bit he got a bit bolshi afterwards when he was asked about it he said I don't like to make changes for changes sake and and you know who would you have brought on you know what would you have done he started asking the journalist well what would you have done and uh

yeah it's it's just it's just interesting do you know what i really wish i really wish journalists rather than just going people don't care about my opinion just if when next time a manager says what would you have done they just say well here you go and have just gone like going to real deep do like 25 minutes and go look you asked the question and just absolutely give it to them and just say this is what I would have done can I use your whiteboard there's there's that whole element with them so there's a few there's a few little things that are that are going on it's been likened a little bit to the way that Leicester tailed off under him at the after a really strong start to last season then there's just been this whole thing of no we're not in the title race no we're not in the title race we're not good enough and I don't know are we just sort of seeing things

because they've had the little dip now do we just assume that actually the players have maybe just bought into that a little bit or or was he actually right that they're not they're not quite there I don't know when when they when they beat Brentford last month I really thought that there was something going on there and that they were going to challenge they were going to be at least capable of challenging Liverpool

so it's just a little bit disappointing they've now seemed to drop into this top four battle instead yeah we're not title challengers now go out and show it two points from everton fuller ipswich and palace he's done exactly what they wanted to do uh bournemouth won everton nil um as producer joel writes it must be so exhausting being jordan pickford did make me laugh um uh that goal paul from david brooks i mean i just thought it was it was like my favorite kick of the weekend yeah i was thinking of you actually when it when it went in because i know you've got this whole lexicon around finishes but yeah i i just i just just I think he's always struck me as just a really sweet lad as well, David Brooks.

And obviously he's been through a lot.

So I think when he scores a first time folly at the far post back across goal top corner to decide,

I really enjoyed the game.

There wasn't much in the way of, well, there were a fair few chances, but it was really

keenly contested game.

I really enjoyed it.

And to decide it in that fashion

was really nice.

I mean, I thought Bournemouth deserved to win.

I thought that

they were the better team.

And

it's so interesting to watch a team like that and a team like Fulham as well, where they've got multiple forward options that sort of seem to perm over the course of games and weeks.

And none of them are any players you would sort of say, oh, I'd lay my hat on them to be the decisive figure in a match.

But

as a unit or as a as

a squad, as a team, they do deliver.

And I think it sometimes reflects quite interestingly on the bigger clubs, like Chelsea were talking about, who sometimes seem to be able to throw on another £70 million player, 50 million pound player, and it doesn't make any difference to see a team which is kind of,

I think, understood by the coach and understands what each individual can bring and tries to create a setup where they can do that.

So, Cliver was back after suspension.

He started straight back in the team.

He knits these things together.

But Django Orataro, who has not been a regular starter, but has come into form, started the game, was probably the most,

you know,

incisive attacking player on the field.

It was really good to watch.

I came away thinking about Everton though more,

because you didn't really have to kind of snoop over people's conversations, although I did, to hear that, you know, people, Everton fans, have gone beyond the point of sort of feeling like Dyke is not the man, to sort of kind of

cackling inconsolably about the kind of the way in which this is all so bad and fates have conspired to leave them in this position.

It's sort of a res a fatalistic resignation and and i kind of saw a team that i felt like it was only a kind of couple of moments away from batty being quite good um and that's obviously clearly sean dykes and he's he he was like

he gave a whole he went off on one to one of the local journalists you know basically saying every week every week i'm asked about why we're not doing better and every week i've told you it's a hard thing to do and that it's going to take time and that we have to that you know you can see the improvement in the defensive.

They've stopped.

They're not so they're playing well defensively, I'd say.

But it was just those kind of couple of the decisions, the positions that I think

could have swung it forever.

And you can see why, just keep on working that you might get there.

And then you look at where they are, and you look at the fixture to come, and you think, oh, my God, you've got to, you know, you don't have the time to do that.

Yeah,

a few questions on Everton, Barry.

Oliver says, Sean Deish, eight games without a goal in the last 10.

Craig Dawson owned goal, being the club's top scorer in this run.

Three wins in 19, seven goals from open play.

In 2024, he got seven wins, lowest XG in the league.

The most depressing, negative, and predictable style of football relegation beckons.

And Matt says, other than he's Sean Deish, based on the available stats and metrics, give me one good reason why Dice shouldn't be punted to the moon by Everton.

Yeah, I mean, their lack of.

It's not that they're not scoring goals.

Like, they didn't ever look like getting close to scoring a goal in this game, as I recall.

And

I guess Daish

always keeps them up, so the presumption is he'll do it again this season, and he may well do.

But I think they're in serious trouble because

Ipswich are a better team than them.

Ipswich are scoring more goals than them.

So they're definitely circling the drain again.

And

whatever happens this season I imagine Dice will leave at the end of it

and the new owners will bring in someone else.

Just looking at Bournemouth they have Chelsea and Newcastle away up next then Forest and Liverpool at home before a restorative bathe in the healing waters of Southampton so

they could do a lot of damage to those teams in that run of four games before Southampton.

or they could lose all four.

We don't know, but uh, it'd be interesting, an interesting test for them.

Yeah, uh, finally, Villa two, Leicester one.

Jolson, did you spot that Ross Barkley scored with an actual proper half-volley?

Jacob, what a I mean, my second favorite goal after David Brooks, but he hit that so beautifully, didn't he?

Yeah, it's always nice to see Ross Barkley do something good because

when he when he came, he was so exciting when he came through, and then he had the

probably ill-advised move to Chelsea that ultimately didn't really work out.

A couple of loans that didn't really do anything for him, struggled, seemed to be

just struggling off the pitch with

at times with some

questionable choices while he was at Chelsea.

And then last season, yeah, just

found rhythm,

a home at Luton and

got to

that point where people say maybe he should

play for England again.

Maybe not quite at that level, but it's just nice to be reminded at times that he is a very, very talented player.

Yeah.

So look, good win for Villa.

They're not as good as they were.

Leicester City, no bounce, really, with Rude Van Nistelroy.

Wolves play Forest tonight.

We'll talk about that on Wednesday's pod.

Paul, a minute on Norwich City.

Losing to Frank Lampard's Coventry in injury time, but winning.

What a moment at Carrow Road.

Yeah,

it was good.

It took us back about five years to the good old Farka days where we, on the first championship title, where we kept on getting these last-minute wins, not even Forest, coming back from two goals to get three or two goals down to get three or draw in added time.

And we used to do it quite a lot, and we haven't done it for a while.

And we did it, and we did two goals in added time from a guy who we signed from Red Bull Saltzburg, Amanqua Forson, who we signed from Red Bull Salzburg in the summer.

came in, had his debut, everybody raved about him, and then sort of dropped out.

They'd never been able to recreate that form and has dropped out of the team.

And everyone's like, oh, we don't have much money to spend we spent four million on this guy what's that all about and uh you know the the first goal he scores was an absolute absolute banger from the edge of the edge of the box and the second one not about finish you know scottla in the in the four patch two so you know i i don't know what what it i think for norwich what it means is that we've got spirit and we can play football the right way our squad's quite thin i don't know that it'll be enough for us to get to the playoffs but we're giving it a go um but i just think for

as a football moment it's just a reminder of why you love the game, not just the outcome, but the person who delivered it.

Fraser says, what are your thoughts on John Coleman's appointment at Gillingham?

Are you as surprised as I am?

I wasn't that surprised.

I was surprised that Mark Bonner had been sacked.

Coleman appointed 45 minutes later.

It does mean that Cambridge's last two managers are available.

And I woke up at 1.15 a.m.

on Saturday night for my first wee of the night, Barry.

So I thought, oh, I'll watch the last 15 minutes of Cambridge v.

Bristol Rovers.

God, it was bleak.

Absolutely bleak.

The two most out-of-form teams in League One being out of form.

Your man Scott Sinclair was running around a bit, I think.

But yeah, we are finished.

Anyway, we'll finish with another email from China.

Rob says, Dear Max Barry and the team, I was interested to hear of the difficulties a recent visitor to my current home of Chengdu experienced in listening to The Guardian Football Weekly.

I first started listening to the pod while living in Thailand, which does not restrict the Guardian, and pay for an annual subscription to The Guardian in equal parts due to the excellent journalism and because of whatever it is that you do.

Since moving to China, I've had to go through technically illegal VPNs to download it three times a week for the last two and a half years, deserving, I think, some recognition for my dedication.

Before you get too excited about your own importance, I can assure you that the Great Firewall is more interested in activities at Guardian Towers censoring the reporting of the big paper, more than Mark Langdon's three meats, your anti-insert club name agenda, and the hot takes of Jordan Jarrett Bryan.

Nevertheless, if you can get a China tour on the go to improve Sino Football Weekly relations, then I'd be happy to push tickets for a Chengdu venue and drag my long-suffering partner along as well.

She has no interest in football, but has absorbed hours of the pod through Osmosis.

And subsequently, Barry is her favourite.

Keep up the great work, particularly the irreverent bits.

They keep me listening all the way to the end.

Happy New Year and all the best for 2025.

Thank you, Rob.

I won't read out your surname because we don't want anyone to catch you on the VPN.

So, you know, you can keep listening.

Yes, Barry, all I can do is echo the sentiments of Father Ted and say that the Chinese are famously a great bunch of lads.

Anyway, that'll do for today.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you, Jacob.

Thank you.

Thanks, Paul.

Thank you very much.

Cheers, Baz.

Thanks, Max.

For week clears, produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

Carabao Cup semi-final.

So we'll be back on Wednesday.

this is the Guardian.