Does a relegation battle beckon for Manchester United? - Football Weekly

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Hi everybody, Max here.

I hope you're well.

Happy New Year.

It is 10 to 9 in the evening, Melbourne time.

So just before I head out to a warehouse rave

to sing in the new year with

Don Fisher, Alf Stewart and Ailsa.

Just to say that Wayne Rooney was sacked by Plymouth just after we finished recording the podcast, so there is no mention of it.

But there is a small mention of Man United's form and Ipswich's Wynne and Segera Southgate.

Well here it is.

Have a lovely new year.

Bye.

Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Ruben Amarim says being Manchester United manager is a bit embarrassing and relegation is a possibility.

Happy New Year!

An opening half hour where Manchester United players found it virtually impossible to kick the ball, certainly not in the right direction.

Newcastle hammered them at the start of this game.

Who could have predicted Tenali Gimmeresh and Joel Inton would be too much for Christian Erickson and Casemiro?

A huge win for Ipswich Town against Chelsea, their first home win of the season and richly deserved.

They were brilliant all over the pitch, but Liam DeLatt was something else.

Let's not get carried away.

But how will he celebrate when he leads the line for Thomas Tuchel's World Cup winning England side in 2026?

Brighton get a late and probably deserved equaliser at Villa and a lovely one too.

And then Arise Sir Gareth will discuss his knighthood, answer your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glendenning, welcome.

Hello.

Noradine Chowdhury.

Happy New Year.

Hello and Happy New Year.

And Happy New Year to you too, John Bruin.

Happy New Year to you, Max Rushton.

Thanks so much.

Happy New Year, Barry, by the way.

I didn't.

Sorry.

Yo, thank you.

I was about to...

Are you not hoping I'll have a happy new year I know you'll have a happy new year I hope you've had anis horribilis

Neil says could be an all-timer for a man United heavy panel going by the first 10 minutes of this game

G.R.

Smith as a United fan should we just disband admit it's been a mostly decent hundred years and pack up

And I probably would have led with Ipswich had Ruben Amerin not come out afterwards and said, our club needs a shock and we have to understand that.

It's why I speak of relegation.

That is really clear, the possibility, and we have to fight.

It's a really difficult moment, one of the more difficult moments in the history of Manchester United.

And we have to address it with honesty and be clear that we have to fight in the next game against Liverpool.

It's worth pointing out.

Nas, you can start.

I mean, they're interesting.

He doesn't really think they're in a relegation scrap.

Does he?

Do you?

I mean, he should.

Because why not?

Like,

that, that, uh,

that, that, um, well-used term, too good to go down.

United aren't too good to go down, are they?

And, like, in by any metric, they're not, they're not too good to go down.

Like, the if you if you go through the team, there's there's nothing in there that you can kind of think, oh, they'll be safe because they've got that goal scorer, or or they create a lot of chances, or or they, or they, or they, they're quite sort of um secure at the back.

There's nothing about the team where you kind of think, okay, well, that's that'll get them, get them out of trouble.

And, um,

we'll obviously go on to Ipswich

shortly.

But that's a team that looks like a team.

They've got a plan and they know what they're good at and what they're not good at with United.

There's nothing to hang on to at the moment.

It's a weak team.

And also, it's weak mentally.

And if there's one thing that's going to get you relegated, it's having a weak mentality.

One win in six in the league, which is the Magister Derby, where they were, I mean, losing until very later on, third straight home defeat in all competitions, which I think is the first time that's happened since 1963, which is weird because it feels like it happens all the time now.

John, opening thoughts?

Manchester United are shy, don't they?

This doesn't feel unfamiliar, shall we say?

This feels like Man United go through

myriad crises over the last 10 years.

But is this one the deepest?

I was listening to Amarim.

I was at the Ipswich press room, listening to that and thinking, oh no, like, you can't really say say those type of things and I was reminded of another previous Manchester United manager talking about relegation and being hammered for it but that was David Moyes when he was at Sunderland remember that when he started the season and said oh yeah we're in a relegation battle after the first game you can't really say those things

especially when you're manager of Manchester United.

Now, maybe Ruben Amarin will break the mole.

Chatting to a colleague and friend last night, we were talking about the

psyche of the modern Manchester United fan.

Now, Nazis is a bit more switched on to this.

You still actually attend that goddamn place.

I,

for various reasons, do not.

I'd be interested to go back there if I had a spare 66 quid to just see the mentality of fans because I get the impression there's a few fans that are, hey, we've seen there, we did it, we had the greatest time ever.

I'd be one of those.

And then there are those that are now just, I just go to the game for a drink and a laugh and a beer.

And then there are those that are like, I hate these people.

And I hate what this club has become.

And I could be sort of all of those things.

Because Manchester United is so many things.

They're a glorious club.

But now they're absolute rubbish.

And they're also embarrassing to be...

associated with.

Now,

Noz again will know a bit more about this.

Manchester United used to be a pretty...

you're the two main laugh at this.

They used to have a bit of cool about them, a bit of sort of, you know, swagger, a bit of we're Man United, you know, we're the most famous going in football, George Best, Eric Cantonart, all these things.

What have you got now?

What have you got now?

There's very little.

I mean, it's a good point, like growing up, because there's an argument to be made that

Busby's era and Fergus era are actually anomalies.

And really, what Manchester United are, a car a city.

Yeah, basically.

And

it's kind of like it's that, and again, like that thing about being cool, it feels like an anathema to United because they feel like this big behemoth,

this big clunking financial machine.

But it was this thing about a glamour about playing where, like,

exciting.

It used to mean like two or three cups a decade, but it was exciting, beat anyone.

You always had characters, you always had McGrath, you always had Remy Moses, Brian Robson, that kind of player.

But I completely agree with what John's saying.

Like, what is there now?

I mean, but you have this idea.

I mean, I live in London, lived in London a long time.

And there's a, I mean, a lot of, I live in the east end of London, I meet a lot of Cockney Reds, right?

And the Cockney Reds got into the team in the 70s because, and we can't ignore this, because of the Cockney Red army, because of like hooliganism, because also Man United played a style of football which was exciting when they got relegated in 1973 four matt busby turned to toby docherty and said let's just play the right way when we go down let's not play sean dice football as it was still known back then i'm glad he called it that yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah let's not play sean dice football in 1974 let's play the right way let's go down the right way man united came back up the right way and you know you had gordon hill you had steve coppel you had these exciting players

And, you know, you'd cock your head and say, oh, yeah, I fell in love with that.

I loved that team.

And, you know, the 80s was essentially a retread of that.

What is the fan in 2025?

It is.

They're not getting anything like that.

They're just getting

this clunking financial

defaulting

machine.

and a shit football team.

Yeah, they certainly didn't get much in the first half hour here, Barry.

And we will get on to how good Newcastle were, but it was astonishing, wasn't it?

Like, they couldn't.

There was a moment where Casemiro sort of took a shot and it went over the stand.

Like, it was just sort of extraordinary.

It felt like England-Iceland.

Look, Newcastle went into this game on a good run of form, four wins out of four.

I think this was Manchester United's fifth defeat this month in the league, I think.

But Newcastle must have looked at the United team sheet and they see Casemiro and Christian Erickson in midfield and just being licking their lips and rubbing their hands together.

They went down with the team in 74 actually.

Because neither of those, they're both well past their best and neither of them can run.

So to put them up against Jimarez, Joel Linton and Sandra Tanale on current form is almost an act of cruelty.

And you wonder, what was Ruben Amaram thinking?

What has he seen on the training ground that made him think this is a good idea?

Now, to be fair, some of this is on Bruno Fernandez for getting a stupid suspension

for getting sent off in their last game.

United were duly overrun for the first half hour, and Newcastle scored two, should have scored more, and might have been a little concerned when Amarim made the change, took off the totally ineffective Xerxes and brought on Cobby Menu instead.

And United improved after that, but were still thoroughly thoroughly deserved winners but if you look around old Trafford right you've got up in the stand these all the executives sitting in a road what

Dion Fanning the Irish journalist famously has now famously described as the Politburo of bullshit they're looking down looking glum and the worst things get you think they're all going to be watching their own backs and you know one worrying about their own positions rather than the good of the club you've got disaffected players on the bench.

You've got someone who's clearly not good enough being swubbed off after half an hour and being, you know, jeered off by his own fans.

This is a club who spent 500 million quid in the last three years.

What have they got for it?

And I think it's far too early to have a go at Amarim and say, oh, he's the bad choice.

But I think...

he has to take a lot of the blame for what happened last night because that team selection was bizarre extraordinary.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, it's the it's the first game where Amarin was the person to blame because the funny thing is that once that change was made and uh and uh Maynu came on, it improved a lot.

And again, it's it's from a very low bar, but it improved a lot.

United was still second best, but you could see the change in the team.

And like Barry says, it made no sense to have those two players in there together.

That was on Amarin.

And also the two defensive fullbacks, again, that was on Amarin.

But I really, really like Amarim.

I think the biggest weakness he's shown or the lack of judgment is actually joining United because it's where reputations die.

That's the biggest concern in terms of his judgment.

But I do think he's an excellent coach.

And I do think he's got...

the charisma and

personality to be Manchester United manager.

And also even the fact when he said

United aren't discounted from the relegation sort of battle,

he is very, very honest.

And I think

that's a credit to him.

Usually, what would happen with a team like United is they just throw money at Liam Delap

or another player, and they can't do that now because of PSR.

So,

there's no obvious solution to this.

All he can do is try and improve the players he's got, and also try and get rid of a few players just to sort of for PSR and also to sort of release funds to sign players.

So, it's not a good situation.

And at the moment,

you kind of wonder how United Gale because as much as you kind of think, oh, United have got bigger, more resources and

have more of a pulling power than, say, Sporting.

Sporting, you can change the team quite quickly.

You can get rid of players, you can get other players in and get a team that you want.

With United, it's such a clunking machine that it's so hard to get rid of players.

It's so hard.

Like, Rashford wants to go.

United would be

happy for him to go.

He's not going to go because where did he go?

Who can afford him?

Who wants him for that money?

It is kind of sad that Eric Ten Hag wasn't there to say, actually, that first half hour was quite good.

Don't believe what you saw.

But there is a question, John, about Amarim, a sort of Ange-type question about, you know, being an ideal log.

And I think the comparisons probably aren't fair on Amarim.

And just been there a year and a half.

We have that conversation every week, so we don't have it now.

Amarim hasn't been there long, but still, this idea of we are going to play this system, despite it being glaringly obvious that these players can't do it right now.

Like, they might learn, or once you get through the players, as Nos has already said, it's very hard to change them.

So, at what point does he go, actually, I might have a back four just for a few weeks because I don't want to get relegated.

There is an argument that in English football in particular, systems

don't tend to last that long.

They'll work for a while.

And then the nature of English football, its

physical nature, the pace that it's played up top level, I should say.

Although, having said that, I was at Macclesfield Town against Leak on

Boxing Day,

Leak One.

Well done, Leak Town.

And there was a chap next to me talking about the systems playing at

Macclesfield v.

Leak.

And I'm thinking,

we've taken a wrong turn here.

I don't think, I mean, Robbie Savage would be the guy putting the system down.

Wow,

I can can beat you there, John.

A captain I had back in the UK sent me and two other forward players

how Chelsea press.

Come on, I've got one knee.

Lisa was offside and Igor's coming off a 10-hour shift as a carpet fitter.

I don't think we're going to have

press like that.

But anyway, anyway, carry on.

The successful managers in English football have all had something of a philosophy, but been massive pragmatists.

And that includes Jürgen Klopp, who had this idea of how to play, Gagan pressing or whatever.

But eventually, he shifted it

to a system that fitted English football.

Pep Guardiola has shifted the team around loads and loads and loads.

The problem is that he's forgotten how to do that at the moment, but he did do it for a very long time, very successfully.

Jose Mourinho, too.

And

you've got these people.

This season has been quite because because you've had Russell Martin, bless him.

You've had Ange, you know, who has to say the same thing every week.

And yeah, I do fear that Room and Amarum will have to say the same thing every week about 3-4-3.

The fact is, if you play 3-4-3, as we saw with Newcastle, if the opposing team has got speedy wingers and fullbacks, you're exposed.

You really are.

Lewis Hall, Anthony Gordon.

That left side.

Hall and Gordon is so good, isn't it?

Yeah, they're so good.

If you're against someone like that, you're in trouble.

You've got to find a way of,

you know, it's pragmatism.

Will there come a day when 343 becomes a sort of 3421 and then suddenly he's got to do it on the quiet now because he's set out his stall?

These are top footballers, supposedly.

Why can't the buggers adapt to what he's saying?

You know, I mean,

how hard is it for some of these people?

You know, to say, right,

you just do what you're going to do.

Because

we all remember the days of utility players where it's like, can you just go out?

Can Alan Harper and Phil Neville or you name these people.

No, I take your point, but I guess isn't the point is you're coming up against teams that

are well coached and

have all these moves and

they're so trained that if you just sort of say, here's what you're doing, lads, actually is much harder to adapt because of how,

you know, there's an opposition there.

Yeah, I suppose you've got to coach in an adaptability or the sort of automaton thing that City appears to have had for many years that has now failed them.

They've lost that on the training ground.

And it appears that, say, City

now

hits Pep's answer to the problem is to train them more.

And

they lose it more.

I don't know.

Maybe Amarim's just got to be a bit more chilled out about it.

I don't know.

But it's not working.

That's the truth of it.

Just on the formation,

I think that's a bit of a red herring in terms of playing five of the back.

I don't think that's so much the issue.

Because Amarim made the very good point after the game in the presser afterwards where multiple reports were saying, basically suggesting he's being stubborn and why didn't you just go back to 4-4-2?

And Amarim made the good point that

we were shit.

United was shit when they were playing 4-4-2 before I came.

So that's not going to be the solution.

I think the biggest problem that Amarim's got or that he needs to sort of sort out is the rotation.

This rotation of players that he's doing at the moment, United's score aren't good enough for that.

So

he's got to pick the best players for this formation and go with that as much as possible because that's the only way you can do it.

So

Ahmed starts, like, stays

as an attacking wing back.

You don't play that midfield.

You play Menu and Ugate as much as you can, but it's that thing.

I think it's less the system, it's more the players.

Like, he needs to play his best players for this formation and kind of cut out the rotation as much as possible because

this squad can't rotate in this formation at the moment.

That's the pragmatic part.

Pick your best team, right?

You're my best team.

Here's my European League team.

Let's just get through the season.

Then we go back to it and hopefully stay up.

It's a quick one on Zerxy, Nod, because that is...

It's sad for any player to get hooked that early, but like the joy

in the stadium when he was hooked.

God, you felt sorry for that guy.

It was so cruel.

I generally, like, as John said, like, like, like, I do go to games.

So, like, generally, the idea is that the match going fans are more pragmatic and more reasonable than some of the online sort of supporters.

But that was so cruel.

I felt so sorry for him.

And

when he sort of looked like he stormed off to the changing room,

not one person watching on TV or sort of the pundits whoever was sort of saying, oh this is petulance everyone felt so sorry for him he did look as if he was going to cry and and and and also this idea of like um after the match uh amrim was asked about um do you think that this was the right sort of team that he picked and then he he straight away said oh i know i know what you're talking about you're talking about um joshua that wasn't the issue the issue was the midfield and and i felt hooking uh xerxe wasn't because he was really really bad because they were all really really bad it was because that midfield needed menu so that so he had to take somebody up and and and xerxy was that player but um i i think what xerxy shows is for anyone manchester united is a is a big draw because of the wages because of the fame because of like your um social media um following will quadruple but for any young player i think xerxe is a bit of a morality tale of like do you need this half in your life if you're an exciting young player and you see Xerxe come to United and within months, months, it's been, and it wasn't even Boozer Boozer when he when he came off there was cheers because people were cheering that that he was being substituted and you kind of look at that and think why would I want to subject myself to that there's a myriad of other clubs where I can enjoy myself enjoy my football and be more successful than United at the moment and and yeah that that that was one moment that I just thought like I think the fans really let themselves down and and he's not the first right there is a list of young prospects who go to Manchester United in recent years and it doesn't work out um but it is worth pointing out especially in that half hour and even given how bad Manchester United were Newcastle United just had everything that they didn't they had a balance they had you know just

both down the right especially the left they were so strong yeah Lewis Hall's a great young player and hugely impressive having a great season that Manchester United midfield was incredibly easy to play through but they did it so well and so just popping passes around I think it was the second goal just completely bypassed the the United midfield with with three passes then there was the one where they almost walked the ball into the net Sandro Tanali ended up hitting the post when I'm not sure how he missed but that again just brilliant ping ping ping you can only beat what's in front of you they made the pitch really big you know massive kept hogging the touchlines and

ran rings around them absolutely ran rings around them and it's not Newcastle have had a quite weird season I think they started they were getting points, but they weren't playing well.

And then they were playing well, but they weren't getting the points their performances deserve.

But they've really hit their stride now.

And I presume they will hope for a top four finish.

And it certainly doesn't seem beyond them.

Yeah, I suppose, look, I suppose if there's a positive, perhaps not for Man United, because it doesn't look like they'll string a load of results together.

Five wins in a row from Newcastle, which is not easy in the Premier League, but that has put them into fifth place.

And there are lots of sides, probably down to Man United in 14th, who could go on a good run and put themselves in a position like that.

Anyway, yeah, great win for them.

They were very good.

Well, I think United, there's a very good chance they will string a run of results together.

There just won't be good results.

I mean, Liverpool away in X then Arsenal in the FA Cup.

Oof.

Oh, killer.

Well, anyway, that'll do for part one.

Part two.

We'll talk about Ipswich's first home win in the Premier League.

HiPod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So Ipswich 2, Chelsea 0.

John, you were there.

I saw Simon Johnson Athletic right this morning.

Ipswich fans provided the best atmosphere I've heard anywhere in quite a while during the win against Chelsea.

If they make that kind of noise in every game, the team will surely have a chance of staying up.

Um, is that your feeling?

Was it rocking at Portman Road?

Well, I was actually sat next to Simon, so uh, right, I share his

view on it.

It was one that we agreed on, but actually, I would say that every time I've been to Whipswife this season, I think that might be the sixth this season, the atmosphere is always good, even games when they've lost.

They should be cutting to you as much as they cut to Ed Sheeran if you've been that many times.

And who should I pass in the corridor last night?

Oh, yeah, Ed Sheeran, yes, indeed, with security goon.

Yeah, there you go.

Uh, I'm taller than him by quite a long way.

There you go.

I've got that over him, and uh, he's got a few more records to sales.

There you go, anyway.

On with on with Ipswich Town, uh, fantastic.

Um,

there are times when uh, the job is a privilege, and that was one of them.

Loved being there, it was brilliant.

It was a great night.

Um,

Chelsea played the part by being rubbish.

Axel Dizazzi, he's just so close, isn't he, to being the headline writers' team.

Yes, he is.

I mean, it's just.

Oh, come on, man.

Just

give us an extra consonant and we could be there.

But

he was.

But Liam DeLap, let's go straight to Liam DeLap.

What a player.

He's not only like he is a battering ram, right?

He is.

Like, his thighs are enormous, but he's so skillful as well.

I'm trying to think who he reminds me of.

It's again, we're going back to your sort of 70s, 80s style sort of forward gripper, Mark Hughes-ish almost, like a young Mark Hughes, a bit more pace than Hughesy.

Yeah, you see,

I'd never see Mark Hughes, and forgive me if this isn't like

getting it and just driving at a defense.

Well, you, yeah, well, you didn't, you know, that's the memory of Mark Hughes is if the ball goes to Mark Hughes, and wherever it goes, he holds it up.

Yeah.

And he's got about five defenders kicking his arse, and he's still got the ball, and then delivers a pass to, you know, a speeding Ryan Giggs or whatever.

Oh, God, Man United.

What happens there?

Anyway, and then you've got, you've got

the thing is, it was a one-man attack quite a lot of the time, but then you saw the intelligence of the pass that he played to Hutchinson.

Because you could see the Chelsea players caught up with him and they're thinking, what are his intentions?

What's he going to do here?

What's he going to do here?

And he completely fooled them.

Hutchinson had, you know, goal open, brilliant finish, great celebration against a club that let him go.

And the other thing is, I mean, Kieran McKenna talks about this, you know, there's six players there that played in League One, including the goalie, Christian Walton.

The talk we had of the game was that Sanches had last been dropped by Chelsea.

In fact, Murich, who is Ipshi's normal goalkeeper, has had a few wobbles recently.

He struggled with kicking the ball out.

Bring in Walton.

He had a great game.

And at the end of it,

this is the thing that I noticed.

They've won the first game, they've got to the end of 2024 and won the first Premier League game to complete a brilliant year.

Everyone's celebrating.

There's almost a lap of honour, but it isn't quite a lap of honour because you can see Kieran McKenna going, if we go a bit too wild after one win,

that looks a bit, you know, village or whatever.

So you can see him trying to dampen it down, but there was a sort of Jürgen Klopp, you know,

with a crowd.

And they loved it.

And then, oh, yeah, I mean, just when teams pull off that type of thing it was just great fun and it's you know it it's what it's about and Ipswich have been a credit to the Premier Leagues that have come up a lot of the and a lot of the factor is apart from Liam DeLap apart from Kieran McKenna apart from

Leif Davis a player that I've absolutely fallen in love with it's the atmosphere at Portman Road you feel like you're being transported back to a stadium where football actually matters where it isn't all about pound shilling and pence and the funny thing is actually you know underneath it all they are owned by an american finance fund but hey that's modern football isn't it john i think um this is something you touched on in your report do you do you think maresco underestimated them with his his team selection would suggest maybe that was the case i think so i mean i suppose one thing you could say is that Chelsea haven't been playing that well, so he shuffles the pack.

And what you've got, I suppose, at Chelsea is that you've got the Conference League team that are destroying everyone in in front of them because they're playing

not particularly strong competition.

And then you've got the Premier League where they've been doing quite well.

I think the one player to mention here, Joe Felix, what is this guy doing at Chelsea?

Falling over a lot.

He cannot stand up straight when the ball is played to him.

And it's clear that he is aware that the fans haven't taken to him.

So he scored a goal, did a whole elaborate, yeah, yeah, yeah, haters celebration.

but because he's not very good he was half a yard offside and had to sort of withdraw the celebration and as soon as the second goal went in Maresca hooked him he's like right I've had enough of that and Maresko you see has to do this thing doesn't he with

the political situation at Chelsea with the two owners with the which is one of those two owners brought in

Jel Felix and he's got to please that owner so he's oh I've given him game time you've seen that he did this a bit with Budrick before.

Sounds like the sort of court of Henry VIII, doesn't it?

Bring on this.

I know this guy can't juggle, but we have to bring him on for a couple of minutes because otherwise I'll have my head chopped off by someone in the Privy Council.

Yeah, we're back to Wolf Hall again, aren't we?

You know, it's, it's, uh, it's, and I think that's what you have to do.

That's how you have to manage stuff.

That will go on not clubs, not just Chelsea, maybe a bit more on the continent.

So you bring on Joe Felix, you go, oh, you see, you see there, he wasn't quite working out, and then you don't have to play Joe Felix again.

And that's, that's a good point unfortunately nico jackson comes on and misses a howler because that's what he might do just to go back to liam de lapp uh nod and i alluded to it in the in the in the intro but

from an england perspective

and i this may be recency bias i.e the game i literally just saw but he does excite me a bit more than solanke or ollie watkins in that what do we do when everybody realizes you know when harry kane clearly gets another injury at the world cup so he's carrying a bus on his back.

He's such a complete striker, a proper centre-bow.

And again, like you talked about Mark Hughes, the player he reminds me of is

probably a young Norman Whiteside, just in terms of having that mass physicality, but then also being incredibly skillful and really fast as well.

One of the greatest things about him, and you talk about it in the England context,

he's such a pain in the arse to play against.

Defenders hate him because he's pushing everyone, he's pulling everyone.

He's occupying about three players at once.

Um, he, and also, there's, there's a kind of there's a hint of like, um, I know it's a different position, but like almost a Stephen Gerrard of like, he's got so much confidence and

that driving uh part of his game.

There's no sense, like like you compare him to someone like um Xerxe, who I think is a good footballer, but at the wrong club

at the wrong time, like Xerxes really affected by his confidence at the moment.

You can really tell that, but you can imagine DeLap going to any club and not feeling inferior at all and just owning it.

And yeah, he's massively exciting.

And

it'll be so interesting in terms of where he might go next.

And that feels disrespectful to Izwich, but he's so good.

He should be playing in the Champions League.

What was City doing?

Getting rid of him.

I mean,

yeah, there were two players there.

I mean, funny enough, Cole Palmer in the first half, there was a point where he suddenly took control of the game.

You just think, all right, here we go.

Because

he has that poise.

He's such a good player.

And credit actually to Kirin McKenna for stuffing him out in the second half.

But look at him, that swagger that he has.

Like, there was one bit where he missed a chance.

And you can just see, like, it's alright, I'll be one of her long in a bit.

You know, just that sort of the way he's...

But Delap

is a more whole-hearted player, isn't he?

And he's got that sort of, you know, the Gazza

sort of, it's the elbow.

You won't like to play against him because you might get something in the face when you yeah it's it's such a great watch it really is i don't know if there's a question on this barry but it did strike me when i mean i know kieran mckenna said it but my mate rob uh is an ipswich fan you know in our whatsapp group was like look six of these guys of the starting of them were in league one with ipswich two seasons ago And I suppose there are comparisons.

Lots of people made this about Luton last year.

Well, Bournemouth did it as well, remember, a few years ago.

But I can't work out if it's at a quirk, like a sign of insane recruitment two years ago.

I watch a lot of League One, right?

And at no point do I think, I reckon

six of these guys in a bit of help will beat Chelsea in two years.

Like, there's no part of me thinking that.

Or is it a sign that actually I don't know, just in terms of ability of footballers in those leagues, that it isn't such a good, I mean, I don't know.

Like, it seems, if you say Bournemouth did it, Luton have managed it, Ipswich have managed it.

Well, I watch Donald Hamlet.

I wouldn't say regularly, but you know, I probably go to seven or eight games a season.

They're very good players in non-league.

You know,

they're seventh here, and they're all pretty good players.

Some of them are a bit out of shape.

And I think the main difference is they can't do things as quickly as

players, league players or top-fly players, and they can't do things well as consistently as top-fly players.

But I suppose if you have a good coach, and Eddie Howe is a good coach, he did it with Bournemouth.

Who was the other?

Brentford.

I guess they've had quite a few came up.

What with Dean Smith was their manager, was he?

Probably then.

Yeah.

My old pal Ethan Pinnock, he's a Dolich Hamlet old boy.

And

so it can be done.

You need a really good coach.

You need players to work hard for each other.

You need them to be ego-free.

There's so many variables.

but if they're all pulling together the same way, Ipswich are, and you bring in a bit of quality, like there was no non-celebration celebration from Amari Hutchinson last night, was there?

No, not at all.

The penalty a bit soft, John.

What do we do?

I mean, I think it oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I think it's a referee's call, isn't it?

Yeah, referees giving it.

I mean,

the charge from Jorgensen's charge was silly.

You were inviting the contact, and Liam DeLap made sure that it was contact wagon.

So, the weirdest thing was that that decision took not very long for them to give the penalty.

Then,

Felix is offside, which was

well offside.

It's like, what?

How have you arrived?

Let's uncover a beer.

No, no, no, no, you're right.

I do like this question.

Yeah, I do like this question from Auckland Gunner.

He makes a good point referring to what we said yesterday about Arsenal.

He says, if Arsenal beating Ipswich without Saka meant their title challenge is over, what does Chelsea losing to Ipswich mean?

It's a very, very good point.

And actually, Nas,

results like this just make it

feel even more inevitable that this title is Liverpool's because none of the challenges, and maybe Arsenal are the only ones, I think, now, who could put a run together, will get near them.

To me, it feels like a foregone conclusion.

It's going to be Liverpool.

But again, like we're talking about Ipswich and the fact that they've come up with these players.

In a funny way, that's reflected in Liverpool because it feels as if this season, more than any other,

just being effective and being efficient is rewarding.

Because this Liverpool team or this Liverpool squad, they've got some,

obviously, they've got world-class players, and they've got Salah and Alexander Arnold, but

their biggest strength is essentially not having a weakness.

They're just a really well-organised team with players knowing exactly what they're meant to do, and there's no obvious weakness in that team.

And

that's similar to a lot of these teams that are doing well this season, whether it's mid-table or even sort of teams like Ipswich, where it's just players who know what they're doing, know what they're meant to do, and

essentially that is your superstar.

The team is...

But it seems mad that there aren't that all the teams don't have.

Look at how much money that's all they're doing.

It's mad that so few teams at the top level have that.

But again, like but the funny thing with Chelsea is is Chelsea for a while looks as if they were going to challenge Liverpool, but

it would have just been a chaotic sort of...

It's the infinite monkey theory, isn't it?

Like you just throw a lot of players together, bring a manager in, and eventually if you keep on doing that, one sort of combination of that sort of mess might actually do well.

But yeah, it looks as if if Chelsea falling away and

again, it's that thing of like, if

Chelsea falls away a little bit more, you can see the manager's job being in trouble, you can see them doing something daft, like selling a load of players, bringing a load of others in, and then you've got you've changed the whole alchemy of the team.

Whereas Liverpool look as if they're even even if Alexander Arnold goes to Real Madrid,

you can see that they're sustainable and you can say that you can see that they've got something something to build on.

But yeah,

I think that's the theme of this season.

It's just like there's so many chaotic teams out there that if you are just efficient and smart,

you're going to thrive.

My only other note is, I mean, Kukarella is such a shit, isn't it?

Like, he's a good player.

He is the pantomime villain of this season, isn't he?

Like, he just went down, not touched at all.

And I think, like, it was, I think it was Hutchison or someone came in, he cleared the ball and he went down like he'd been killed.

And I think the ref did say, look, we checked.

And, like, nobody touched you, mate.

So

what are you doing?

They got a bit heated and they lost it, Chelsea.

Yeah, they did get a bit bit crossed, didn't they?

A lot of them got cross.

They weren't ready to lose that game, and it was.

I was talking about

the evasion.

It was delayed by Chelsea sort of throwing its drop and Ipswich having a calm down.

So he's alright, calm down.

We're going to go over there.

Did anyone steal a security man's glasses?

Well, I don't think so.

All spectacles

were accounted for.

Ed Sheeran, probably.

That'll do for part two.

We'll do Villa Brighton and any other business in part three.

HiPod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So Villa Brighton was very much the third game on yesterday.

Two teams that are doing okay, but just not quite at it, Barry, I would say.

And it was quite a fun game.

It was, it was a good game.

It's what?

Ninth against tenth.

And you'd imagine both sets of fans would have hoped their respective teams would be higher up the table, especially when they look up and see the likes of Fulham, Bournemouth, Forest, and I suppose to a lesser extent Newcastle above them.

Both going into the game on thoroughly unremarkable runs of form.

Villa had won three and drawn two with their last 11 in the league, and Brighton had five draws and two defeats in their last seven.

But they put on a good show.

I think both managers were complaining afterwards about refereeing decisions.

Both managers would probably think they should have won.

And my main take from this was

the Ollie Watkins conundrum.

So obviously, he started because John Duran was suspended.

He scored a goal.

He provided an assist, a good assist.

But I still think he could have done so much more.

He missed a couple of good chances.

He picked the wrong pass a few times.

And I'm a big Ollie Watkins fan.

I think he's a terrific player.

But,

yeah, it was a,

you know, it seems harsh to criticise him when he had a hand in, scored one and had a hand in the other, but I do think he could have done more.

And Villa, I'd be interested to hear what Dan has to say.

Like they make mistakes at the back and they waste chances up front and that's what's costing them I think because they are an undeniably good side.

And I think Uni Emery could have made some changes a lot earlier in this game.

I don't think he brought anyone on till around the

75th minute or something.

Whereas Herstler

made three or four, three changes on the hour mark.

He brought on Reuter, Matoma, and Minta, and they made a difference.

Some of the Villa players look very tired, I think.

And

Leon Bailey has he's just not playing well at the moment.

He's can't do right for doing wrong.

The equalizer was beautiful.

Lampty to Pedro to Matoma, to Pedro to Lampty.

That was just a lovely, and the little flick from Pedro to Lampty was great and a great finish.

Brent from Blay Arsenal tomorrow.

We'll cover that on Thursday's pod if we remember, of course.

Arise, Sir Gareth Southgate.

I mean, we don't have to get into a deep discussion about whether we think the honours system is a good idea or

silly.

But do we think now that it it does exist, Knolls, that Gareth deserves the knighthood?

A knighthood for what?

Not taking the handbrake off, et cetera, et cetera.

I think in a lot of ways, just as much as

it's obviously good news for him, it's a vindication for you.

I think you've been a committed

Southgate Ophile, yeah, for many.

So like I hope you were punching the air.

Do you know what?

I did listen to, I'm about halfway through his Desert Island Discs.

And what strikes me is, though, you're shaking your head actually, so I'll be able to see what you think.

He comes across as such a good guy, right?

And I think he did so much good off the pitch for England as well as on the pitch.

And, you know, he never got us over the line, but in many ways, that's the ultimate thing for an England men's football manager, isn't it?

That's the epitome of what they should be doing.

And

not that I care whether he has a knighthood or not, but I think he's a good person.

And I think he was a good person to have in that role and um yeah just quite like the guy you know i i think though now he's a knight of the realm he'll he'll put on like four extra coats of chain mail under his armor and then an extra extra heavy armor and he'll get legged up on his horse and the horse will just collapse on the ground

under the weight of all this protection he'll look good in the suit won't he when he goes for the he he he's the type of guy that, you know.

Has he been angling for this?

No, I don't think so.

Has he always been...

I think he's a pretty humble guy.

I mean,

I'm looking at his music collection.

Horns be in the range the way it is.

Now that.

He did say...

Do you know why he picked that?

He picked that.

He picked that because it was the background music for the results on Grand State.

And I was like, yes, it was.

And that's why I love that song as well.

The Hole of the Moon, Water Boys.

You can't knock that.

That's a great thing.

No, of course not.

No.

Everyone runs

decent.

Ed Sheeran, I won't say anything.

With this one, is when a footballer chooses his favourite piece of classical music.

Yeah, I mean, come on.

Like, it's like, oh, yeah, I always, you know, I always reach for the Vivaldi when I'm

practicing me keepy-ups in the garden.

Sound like you're a snob, John.

I mean, I know you're a music snob there, but everyone's allowed to like classical music.

Of course they are, but i rather doubt that football that footballers listen to classical music well i i was i was i turned on the radio the other day and it happened to be on radio four

and they were just playing choral music from notre dame cathedral and it was it was like that scene in um the show shank redemption where uh andy dufrane breaks into the guard tower and puts on the opera and all the lads are just enchanted by it.

I was like that, and I'm going to make it my business to

seek out more choral music.

Do you reckon it's like that round at Wilson's?

With, you know, like just choral music pumping in all day?

Possibly.

I'll find out one day.

Wilson doesn't like music.

No music, yeah.

He's an iconoclast.

There's no art or music or culture anywhere near him.

Was that marriage?

Is that Mozart's marriage of Figaro?

I think.

i think in short sing i'm interested to know you you because i kind of interrupted but as soon as you mentioned southgates desert island is nas started shaking his head yeah yeah yeah i want to know why yeah yeah no no it was i mean

the biggest crime was uh talking about how much he loved you too.

But yeah, I mean, it was,

in a lot of ways,

it was sort of like a callback to like the classic match and shoot sort of Q and A's where it's like Phil colin's simply red to like yeah he feels a bit too young for that type of thing right now like i said those songs are because garrison's like born like 71 72 so yeah i think so yeah that's a bit it's a bit maybe it's just like his older brother's music collection or something i hate it but that that's perfectly timed birth to be into you two and know all their canon or discography early you two is that okay or is it all i i'm not a fan to be honest i i just can't take bono seriously i think they've written some hits like there are some songs i'm not turning off if they come on but you know i represent i represent the middle ground i know that i know where i step i know where i sit in this in this oeuvre on this zoom call i i will follow on in the car the other day and thought that's all right but that's that's very early isn't it so Bonno is a Wally, that's the point.

Do you know what his choices reminded me of?

Have you ever seen that video from, I think it was like early 90s, where the where the Biller squad are talking about their favourite drinks.

Yeah,

Gowasou gives us water.

Just like perfect.

But yeah, like

you've got Ed, you've got Ed Sherman, you've got Adele, you've got Mary J.

Blair and U2 with one,

you've got Tears for Fairs, Carpenters.

So yeah, it's exactly what

you'd expect.

But going back to what you were saying, Max, he like, joking aside, he comes across as such a lovely guy.

And his greatest sort of facet of his management of England was that bringing the nation together.

And also, like, he's just a statesman in a lot of ways, isn't he?

He was far more statesmanlike in his role as England manager than any prime minister that was sort of like during that tenure.

So

I think he deserves it on that alone.

But, like, as we've kind of alluded to, I think we might be different levels of wary about how much weight we should give to the honour system.

Wasn't it Villa or maybe West Brom?

I'm sure the fans won't mind if I mix them up.

They were during the eighties, I think it was Villa, they were the first team to go on a tour to China.

And one of their players was famously asked

West Brom, it was.

Was it West Brom?

Sorry.

Apologies

to everyone.

And one of their players, they visited the Great Wall.

And one of their players was asked, you know, what did you make of the Great Wall at China?

And his reply was, it's just a wall, innit?

The same one, you've seen them all.

His name was John Truick,

played for Oxford United later, I think, with Trevor Hebbard.

And he, I think the quote is: when you've seen one wall, you've seen them all.

And like that.

Now, the problem for John Truick is that all anyone knows about him is that he said that.

And he's trying to deny that he wasn't a joke.

He's trying to say it's a joke.

I was going to say about Gareth Southgate, considering the times that Gareth Southgate was manager through outside of football, you know, you consider

the rather,

you know, 2017 through to 2024, you know, your Brexits, your COVIDs, and he was sort of the right manager to have around him.

Your knees, your rainbow.

He was the right manager to have around in that era of,

you know, war on woke and all that stuff.

He always guided the path through that.

And I think that was

as

great as the football achievements were, and they were great great in a sense compared to what came before.

Sometimes the football wasn't so great.

That was his main facet.

That he was so laser-guided on that stuff.

And credit has to go for him.

I would argue not towards the end.

Well, on the Jordan Henderson Saudi thing, that was the thing.

But, yeah, I.

And the Harry Kane armband.

But anyway, yes.

Alan Hanson, MBE.

I think, you know,

yeah, great, yeah.

Great player, great broadcaster Dawn Astel as well for services to footballers with dementia as well as Penelope Watson who I wasn't aware of but she is the wife of David Watson

former Man City amongst other players played 65 times for England I was going to say Max one of the England games recently they had a

five minute Gabriel Clark made feature about Dave Watson's

I think he's got CTE and one of his problems with that and her guiding him through it and they took him to an England game game.

And clearly, he was a great player in the 70s, a Wilson Sunderland player.

And it was an incredibly moving thing to watch.

You moved me to tears, actually.

Such a terrible thing.

And

it's one of those things, isn't it, that football is having to face, and hopefully they're going to face full in the face rather than a lot of the time.

Because Dawn Astle, who you mentioned there, has had such a fight over

the brain injuries that her father received.

And she's been a true heroine actually yeah i think she's been on the part i've interviewed her a number of times she's been absolutely incredible in her fight and she actually said being recognized with this award um from the king is an incredible honor i'm filled with a profound sense of gratitude humility and pride but i also reflect on the fact that this recognition comes after the tragic loss of my lovely dad i'm deeply thankful for the support of my amazing family all of those who've shown us incredible support throughout the years west brom and of course the amazing west brom fans my football family this moment marks the culmination of a journey defined by persistence, courage, and an unwavering desire to make a difference to others.

It acknowledges past achievements and serves as a foundation for future ones.

When facing life's challenges, dare to dream big and have the courage to pursue those dreams, even when they seem impossible at first.

Yeah, it's been-I don't know, Barry, it's been a, we did a special on this.

I, I, with

John Stiles, John Stiles was on it, yeah, and it's it's probably something we should revisit, isn't it?

But, um, uh, yeah, uh, full credit to Dawn and to Penelope.

And yeah, Chris Sutton was on that as well, wasn't he?

He lost his dad.

Yes.

Yeah, he was incredibly good on that part.

Anyway, that'll do for today.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you, Barry.

Thanks.

And Happy New Year.

Thank you, Nuz.

Thank you.

Thank you, John.

Happy New Year, everybody.

Vival Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

Thanks for listening to us in 2024.

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This is The Guardian.