A night to forget for England as Greece make history: Football Weekly Extra

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Speaker 13 Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly, the hand-brakeless England lose at home to Greece. Vangelis Pavlidis, the hero, the winner in injury time, completely deserved.

Speaker 13 It looked like Dude Bellingham had rescued England after a pretty average performance and it doesn't fit a stretch to say this might cost Lee Carsley the job.

Speaker 13 Starting with no recognised striker, finishing with two of them, Greece caused them a lot of problems.

Speaker 13 The game, of course, completely overshadowed by the tragic death of George Fallock, just 31 years old. Meanwhile, the Republic of Ireland win in Finland, Heimer Halgrimson's first points.

Speaker 13 Also today, Manchester City claimed victory over the Premier League in the not the 115 Chargers case, while the Premier League claimed victory over Manchester City in the Not the 115 Chargers case.

Speaker 13 Jogen Klopp takes the fizzy drinks money. We'll look back on Andrea Iniesta's career after he announced his retirement and will pay tribute to Johan Niskins, who's passed away at the age of 73.

Speaker 13 Axel Tuingzabe has injured himself doing the washing up, and I have a deep-fried food clarification for two listeners. All that plus your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

Speaker 13 On the panel today, Barry Glendenning, welcome.

Speaker 1 Hey, Max.

Speaker 13 John Bruin, hello.

Speaker 14 Hello.

Speaker 13 And a debut for Peene Muhlenstein. Hello, Peene.
Thanks for coming on.

Speaker 12 Hello, thank you for having me.

Speaker 13 Charlie says, is it the current Mrs. Rushton and baby Ian's turn to sit in the loo this time?

Speaker 13 Just for clarification, after two podcasts sitting on side saddle on a toilet in the Byron Bay setup, I am in the living room and the family are out.

Speaker 13 We are recording after full-time in the England game. And thank you to John, who is also on holiday in Byron Bay, who offered me a bedroom to record this.

Speaker 1 But I am okay.

Speaker 13 Let's start then at Wembley. England won Greece two.
Dave says, How far up or down is the handbreak? Was there even a handbrake?

Speaker 13 England, Barry, were bad, and Greece were really good in this.

Speaker 1 Yeah, England were bad. And it's a weird sort of game to pick the bones out of.
Let's face it, the Nations League is a tournament. Many people still don't really know what it's all about.

Speaker 1 It's supposed to pit, you know, eliminate friendlies in which elite European teams beat mountaintops or archipelagos 15-0

Speaker 1 in

Speaker 1 games no one is particularly interested in. And it was widely perceived that England were

Speaker 1 vastly superior to the three opponents in this particular four-team group in Nations League Group B2.

Speaker 1 The other two being Finland and Ireland. They're beating Finland, they're beating Ireland pretty handily.
And I think everyone expected them to beat Greece tonight.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 yeah, they were very much second best. But ultimately, it's a defeat that doesn't, it's a big win for Greece because, you know, Greece, the former European champions.

Speaker 1 And it's not particularly a big defeat for England, the two-time European final losers.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 it's a big defeat I think for Lee Carsley who kind of threw a dice tonight that I don't think he really needed to lining up with no striker Harry Kane wasn't fit enough to to start or even I think be named among the substitutes so instead of throwing Ollie Watkins in his place

Speaker 1 looks like Lee might have tried to be a bit too clever and it backfired on him whether or not that's entirely his fault uh there's only so much the manager is responsible for there was some shock in defending by England in this game, but they've lost, and he has now given the FA a reason not to give him the job on a full-time basis when I think it wasn't really necessary to take a gamble like he did.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 13 I suppose the advantage peen of recording at this time is we're not listening to the phonings or looking at the internet of people, just England fans, losing their minds.

Speaker 13 But I think Barry has a point that this could cost Carsley his job. Whether that's fair or not,

Speaker 13 he doesn't have many games to prove himself, and he has not proved himself this evening.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I think I totally agree. It was a huge risk, and especially when you're in as an interim basis and you make such sort of a big call.

Speaker 12 I think straight away when people saw the starting lineup, you look at the names on that list, you look at the players.

Speaker 12 You know, each player in their own right is exciting and has, you know, brilliant qualities that they bring to a squad, but it's whether they work together well.

Speaker 12 And there were times in this game where players were just getting in the way of each other. You looked at them defensively, you know, with some of the goals that they had conceded.

Speaker 12 I mean, what Greece had the ball in the back of the net four times.

Speaker 13 It felt like about a hundred times.

Speaker 1 Like, you know, just having to say even told you, I think only two of them counted.

Speaker 12 Five times in the back of the net.

Speaker 12 And yeah, defensively, it wasn't good, but also at the same time, Foden, Palmer, Bellingham together in a starting lineup, you think, you know, on paper, that sounds brilliant. It just didn't work.

Speaker 12 It seemed confusing. And then, you know, these things of playing a false nine and not having an out and out striker.
And then in the end, they ended up with two strikers on the pitch.

Speaker 12 So it was a confusing decision, I suppose. But I guess, you know, there was pressure already on him to make a different call, to try and switch things up.
He did it. It didn't work.

Speaker 12 So it'd be interesting to see what he says afterwards and what his sort of thought process was.

Speaker 12 You know, I think is it the first time that they've ever lined up like that, Palmer, Foden and Bellingham together in an England team?

Speaker 13 So I think they were trying to work out on the radio if England had ever played without a real nine ever before, but

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 13 I mean, it's funny, isn't it?

Speaker 13 With all the sort of talk of, you know, as producer Joel says it, it felt like the sort of lineup that England fans are crying out for about three minutes into the first group game of any major tournament, doesn't it?

Speaker 13 And

Speaker 13 I just feel like sort of regardless of the people on the pitch and where they were, I've just seen this England performance before. It felt quite nostalgic.

Speaker 14 It took me back to the tactical agonies that we went through during the Euros. It was released the handbrake, Gareth, actually put the handbrake back on, Gareth.

Speaker 14 Connor Gallagher is the answer to everything, Gareth. Oh, no, he isn't.
And so what Lee Carsey did essentially is pick the team.

Speaker 14 that the fans wanted. Now, the fans didn't know this, but the fans didn't.

Speaker 14 There's been the Harry Kane debate hasn't there. Well what would England be like without Harry Kane? You know it's time we got rid of Harry Kane.

Speaker 14 Well England without Harry Kane didn't look very good did they? Jude Bellingham was a false nine. Listen some of us are old school here.
Jude Bellingham is not the type of player that likes a

Speaker 14 centre half snapping at his heels. He showed that from quite early on.
Dude Bellingham played well, actually, when he dropped deeper in midfield.

Speaker 14 There was that interesting shot at half-time, just after half-time.

Speaker 14 They came in to the pits together, and it was Palmer, it was Bellingham, it was Foden in conference about what they were going to do together.

Speaker 14 And it appears that they don't have much to say to each other or operate

Speaker 14 with each other. The thing is, football, modern football, you probably only need one or two of those players, possibly only one, and then the rest of the team have to work hard.

Speaker 14 And what the Greece coach, Ivan Jovanovich,

Speaker 14 Andy Warhol lookalike

Speaker 14 realized was that

Speaker 14 England were going to play that formation and pick them off. Poor old Deccan Rice, much criticised player but Deccan Rice was left to do an enormous amount of work.

Speaker 14 As soon as England presses forwards, the ball goes over, Greece attack at speed and you're almost looking, I was going to say this, you're almost looking like a Manchester United on a weekend scenario, aren't you?

Speaker 14 Where the team are just peeling through the midfield and creating chances and, you know, as it turns out, getting the ball in the net four or five times. Greece are excellent.

Speaker 14 Let's not dismiss that.

Speaker 14 Greek football is doing well. Remember, Olympiarcos won the Conference League.
It's on the up.

Speaker 14 Are we suggesting that Lee Karsley, in his moment of truth, took them a little bit too lightly? That's going to be an accusation, I think.

Speaker 13 Yeah, I mean, John's right there, isn't he? Pavlidis took both goals really well.

Speaker 13 And they picked England off on the break a lot and and just totally does they did totally deserve this obviously it was a very emotional day for them they they dedicated that goal to george baldock miguel delaney writing greek players look to be in tears as they celebrate for balldock so actually if you think about like psychologically for the greek players as well to have to play this game that they didn't necessarily want to play and then to turn up and put in a performance like that is a great credit to them That's an immense credit to them.

Speaker 1 I believe they asked for the game to be postponed. UEFA's fixture calendar said no,

Speaker 1 and so it was played. I think it probably should have been postponed, if I'm honest, because George Baldock obviously he had Panathenaikos teammates in that team.

Speaker 1 I think there was two or three Panathenaikos players in the Greek squad. He's obviously a member of that team.
He's also

Speaker 1 played with or against

Speaker 1 quite a few of the players in the English team who will have been similarly distraught at his passing,

Speaker 1 which shocked everyone, obviously.

Speaker 1 He seems to have been a lovely fellow who

Speaker 1 nobody has a bad word to say about, and obviously, our thoughts go out to his wife and his child and his friends and family. Yeah, I was wondering how this game would go.

Speaker 1 I thought it might just end up being a massive non-event because the players would their hearts wouldn't be in it, their heads would be all over the place. But fair play to them.

Speaker 1 They

Speaker 1 put on a bit of a show, didn't they?

Speaker 1 It was nice that Pavlidas dedicated both his goals to George Baldock.

Speaker 1 Well-taken goals. I mean, Peene's already said Greece had the ball in the net five times.
They nearly had it in the net six times, but that

Speaker 1 incredible hook off the line by Levi Colman.

Speaker 1 I mean, that was something a bit special. They definitely deserve to win this game, and it is an absolute credit to them that they were able to put in a performance like this.

Speaker 1 I mean, it would be tried to say they did it for George, but maybe they did do it for George. And if they did, then they did George proud.

Speaker 13 Pean, Jordan Pickford spent a lot of the night with his hands, both hands raised, sort of going, yeah, that was me.

Speaker 13 And he has never let England down. And I suppose this game doesn't really matter, but he did not have a great evening.

Speaker 12 No, not at all. I think,

Speaker 12 I mean,

Speaker 12 again, it goes back to to sort of those defensive issues that they had in the game, and it just looked like they were a little bit all over the place.

Speaker 12 And as you mentioned, there, that the Levi Cole will save off the line, you know, those kind of things should not be happening as much as Levi will want to keep that onto his CV as a defensive block that he will want to keep there forever.

Speaker 12 But at the same time, it's like those are the situations that shouldn't be happening. And there felt like a level of uncertainty.
I don't know. It just didn't feel solid today at the back.

Speaker 12 And obviously, Jordan Pickford is one of those goalkeepers who

Speaker 12 has been so trusted for England for so long, and rightly so. You know, he puts in performances that make people trust him.
And I think it was today, it just seemed

Speaker 12 a little bit all over the place. They just didn't click, they didn't gel the way that we were expecting them to.

Speaker 12 As we said at the start, when people were getting excited, they kind of had put the pressure on Lee Carlsley to put this team out.

Speaker 12 And then all of a sudden, it was, you know, the way that Greece had played, they had some brilliant chances, some good shots as well. And yeah, it just looked nervous and not cohesive at all.

Speaker 13 Could England have had a penalty in injury time when Madweckie was taken down, John? I wondered. Referee Colombo said, no, just one more thing.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 13 I really just wanted to say that because I found out the referee was called Colombo in the last minute. But I think it could have been.
It could have been. Not that they necessarily deserved it.

Speaker 14 Well, yeah, I mean...

Speaker 14 If we're going to say this game doesn't really matter, which I think it actually does in a sense of England should be in the Nations League top group, shouldn't they? Really?

Speaker 14 I mean, let's face it, they are an elite team. They reach Euros finals, lose them, as Barry will remind us, and to lose at home to Greece is a bad result.

Speaker 13 And I suppose, John, it does matter in the sense of this could dictate if Lee Carson gets the job. So, in terms of the direction of English football, the England football team, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 14 Absolutely.

Speaker 14 It's actually a very, very important.

Speaker 14 Yeah, I mean, if you, if you're, okay, wherever Graham Potter is, if Graham Potter sat in his Sussex mansion tonight, he's thinking he's going to get a call.

Speaker 14 Eddie Howe in his Northumberland mansion is thinking

Speaker 14 this call could be coming soon because Lee Carsley, it was in his possession, wasn't it?

Speaker 14 England was reasonably impressive in those previous two Nations League games. This was not impressive.
And Lee Carsley is not an experienced manager. And that's one of the things.

Speaker 14 That looked the selection of

Speaker 14 a rather idealistic manager, you might say, or inexperienced.

Speaker 14 And

Speaker 14 one of the issues, of course, and we don't know this. I mean, as we speak, these press conferences going on, a lot of it is media management as well.
We learned that under Gareth Southgate.

Speaker 14 How does Lee Carsley talk around what's been actually a fairly disastrous performance

Speaker 14 and convince

Speaker 14 the men of the press, it should they matter, that this is the man? And we know that the FA respond to the the media um so

Speaker 13 yeah it it is a it is a it suddenly puts huge pressure on the next game uh when this was supposed to be oh yeah it's a boring international break it doesn't mean anything well actually it does now doesn't it yeah peene just on bellingham and and i was thinking this when he equalized and you thought okay he's rescued england and i felt this during the euros and you know especially when i said they've got to sub him off it's ridiculous and then he scored that overhead kick and uh you know i was ridiculed but i i get this sense that you do with beckham that he's trying he's always trying to do everything and he doesn't need to do everything and so he ends up being the savior or not quite when actually

Speaker 13 it sort of defeat basically defeats my argument when i i watch him and i think stop trying to do everything other players are good like let other players do some stuff but then because he's doing everything he does the thing that means does that make any sense that that he's just just relax a bit

Speaker 12 i know but this is the thing You say that to someone that is Jude Bellingham, who is a world-class football player, and of course he wants to do everything because he has that trust in himself to be able to do it and to be able to deliver the goods.

Speaker 12 And the thing is, even when you watch this game with England, and Greece played so well, and you know, it was a testament to the fact that they got this victory, and it was a huge victory for them, and what a night for them.

Speaker 12 But at the same time, you're still watching this game thinking, surely Jude Bellingham's going to do something. Surely Jude Bellingham will save the day for England.

Speaker 12 And, you know, he thought he did at the end. You know, he thought he got that equaliser and that was going to be that.
They would settle for the draw.

Speaker 12 Obviously, it wasn't to be for England and it worked out well for Greece. But I see what you're saying in the sense that he's become this, you know, super shining star for England, rightly so,

Speaker 12 because of the player that he is. And I suppose he does probably carry that pressure of thinking, okay, we're not playing very well.
We need to get ourselves out of this sticky situation.

Speaker 12 Am I going to be the person to try and take this on? Obviously, he was playing in a slightly different position today.

Speaker 12 Obviously, with Real Madrid playing a slightly deeper role, and then he did move back.

Speaker 12 I always find it interesting as well when you look at national teams comparing them to the club football that they play. Is what's their favourite position?

Speaker 12 And when they have to kind of come out of that and then suddenly do really great things again, it's like, how do they switch that so quickly and to be able to gel so cohesively?

Speaker 12 Obviously, with Lee Carsey as well, doesn't get that much time with the players, you know.

Speaker 12 And it's interesting when you do make different calls about formations and trying things out, and players in different positions and whatnot.

Speaker 12 To not have that much time to be able to gel with the players makes it even more difficult, and then to have to do it at Wembley with thousands of fans around you. Um,

Speaker 12 yeah, it's a tricky one, I suppose.

Speaker 14 I felt a bit sorry for Rico Lewis, he's clearly not a left-footed player playing left-back, he's a very good player, there's no doubt about that.

Speaker 14 Um, he's probably more a midfielder than a defender, you'd say, by breeding. We've got a bit of the trent about him.

Speaker 14 We could talk about Trent's defending. I think we know where we stand on that, although there's some beautiful passing from him.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 14 I was saying before,

Speaker 14 you know, England without a left side again. I mean, Anthony Gordon

Speaker 14 didn't really take his chance as an England. You know, I mean, he's sort of had a pretty ropey week, hasn't he? He missed that penalty.
And I mean, I really like Anthony Gordon as a player.

Speaker 14 It just didn't happen for him. And the other thing is that, as I said, Declan Rice has got to be an even bigger peg he's got a sort of

Speaker 1 he's got a bigger hole to fill that's the thing he's got to sort of enlarge himself as a peg what is it it's a sort of tree trunk yeah yeah

Speaker 14 it's a sort of tree trunk that he has to plug into the front it's it's yeah it it

Speaker 14 it didn't work i don't think we'll be doing that again uh it may be another 150 years until england play without a striker uh after that one because um it really didn't work. And do you know what?

Speaker 14 Ollie Watkins comes on and within

Speaker 14 two touches could have scored, should have scored. Yeah, I think he should have scored.
And the Ollie Watkins that you see in the Premier League would have scored that. It's, you know,

Speaker 14 England needs a centre-forward. All teams need a centre-forward, unless you're Spain in 2008 or whatever, or 2012, when they were just

Speaker 14 taking a piss out of everyone, really, weren't they, by not having a striker.

Speaker 1 I did notice during this game that I don't know if it'll make a difference when it comes down to the FA making their decision, but

Speaker 1 John mentioned Eddie Howe and Graham Potter, who could often be seen, say, on match of the day or during games,

Speaker 1 writing in notebooks with Byros making, you know,

Speaker 1 crib notes for their halftime split.

Speaker 1 Tonight, Lee Carsley was writing on a tablet with, I think, what you call a stylus or what looked like a a knitting needle i was quite surprised by that i i don't think it affected england's performance in any way but i do think dinosaurs in the fa a pen back of a fag packet man right um was it was it like an etcher sketch or something or a the dinosaurs in the fa will be against that yeah a pen like this yeah yeah that's exactly what it's like going see peen is a different generation all right people

Speaker 1 are right we're all there with our

Speaker 14 very modern manager Lee Carsley.

Speaker 1 Whereas I'm ink and quill. That's the only way I will write.

Speaker 1 Max has his vellum or a wax tablet.

Speaker 13 You've already mentioned it, Barry, and the game was obviously totally overshadowed by

Speaker 13 the tragic death of George Baldock. And it's just worth, before we break, just reading a few of the tributes

Speaker 13 from people who grew up around him.

Speaker 13 Ben Chilwell grew up mates with him and wrote on Instagram from hitting the bars together when we were younger in Milton Keynes to playing each other in the Premier League. I'm heartbroken.

Speaker 13 Rest in peace. Samuel Carruthers, who played with him at Sheffield United, obviously had his greatest part of his career at Sheffield United in the under Chris Wyler.

Speaker 13 He just said, brother, I don't know what to say. I love you, man.
I miss you. You were my bestmate for years and years.
And I was so lucky to live my football career with you and live with you.

Speaker 13 The world has lost an amazing human, but I know you're in heaven, my friend. I will cherish every memory I made with you.
You'll always be in my heart.

Speaker 13 Ollie McBurney wrote, I genuinely can't believe you've gone, brother. I feel sick.
One of the best people I've ever met.

Speaker 13 You were loved by everyone you came across my heart is broken for your beautiful little family sleep well gp i love you mates uh yeah as we've already mentioned incredibly sad and our thoughts were with this family and friends and we'll be back in a second

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Speaker 3 Paige de Sorbo, they are Tommy John.

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Speaker 13 Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So, Finland won the Republic of Ireland two.

Speaker 13 John, you had an eye on this before we go to the joyous Barry, who

Speaker 13 was giving a stick in the WhatsApp group as Ireland won and England lost. But did Ireland deserve this? What do you think?

Speaker 14 Let's say yes, yes.

Speaker 14 Two

Speaker 14 great goals

Speaker 14 after a goal that was absolutely farcical, a mistake by Nathan Collins that I really cannot believe.

Speaker 14 He just sort of left the ball and then

Speaker 14 the finished striker just galloped through, scored, turned and thought, did that really just happen?

Speaker 14 Liam Scales,

Speaker 14 yes,

Speaker 14 this is what me and you annoyed Barry with, isn't it? By saying this was a classic Irish goal in the sense that it was a crashing header in the style of

Speaker 14 what we recall of the

Speaker 14 Irish team over the years.

Speaker 13 The glorious. I'm surprised.
I'm surprised, Barry, you were upset at this, you know, yeah, this love of the Irish DNA.

Speaker 1 What you're surprised I was upset because you were sending me condescending, what's that messages about the quality of the goal Ireland had scored. Ireland had scored a goal.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 And you're belittling it.

Speaker 14 Well, in no sense, was I.

Speaker 1 I found your description of the goal belittling and condescending. And the fact that you were sending me these messages while England were being given the run around by Greece,

Speaker 1 I found slightly distasteful. But, you know, we move on.

Speaker 14 Well, let's move on to the second goal, which was even better and was a great goal. But it was scored by someone who I noticed was playing for Ireland the other week, Robbie Brady.

Speaker 14 Now, I'm going to confess this. I did think Robbie Brady retired some years ago, but he's actually only 32.
And we all remember him for when he scored the goal against Italy back in Euro 2016.

Speaker 14 It was a great

Speaker 1 moon. Yes, exactly.
I'm over the moon. A broad Dublin accent.
Yes, yes.

Speaker 14 And he deserves to be over the moon after this goal. though I should say that the contribution by Festi

Speaker 14 Ebasele of Watford for this goal was absolutely wonderful. A brilliant run, great cross, great finish.
That was a great goal by Ireland.

Speaker 14 Ireland scored an even better goal than the classic Irish goal that I said before.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Great night for Ireland.

Speaker 13 Sorry, Peene, you have to be part of this domestic

Speaker 1 that's just broken out.

Speaker 13 No, my love for the header was it was a good, you know, of all the people who would be up for a get-it-launched goal,

Speaker 13 meant genuinely Barry, it would be me and John. But yeah, well done to Haimer Halgrimson.

Speaker 14 I think I was hearing that he didn't call it, he decided to, he described it as a downward spiral rather than a losing run. That's what he just said.

Speaker 1 I can't.

Speaker 1 I would say more of a tailspin.

Speaker 1 Whatever.

Speaker 14 But well done, Ireland. Well done.

Speaker 13 Well done, Ireland. They played Greece on Sunday.
We'll cover that on Monday's pod, of course. Erling Haaland surpassed Norway's all-time goal scoring record.

Speaker 13 He scored his 33rd and 34th international goals in their game against Slovenia. To take him ahead of Jorgen Juver, who played in the 1920s and Thursdays.

Speaker 13 Thursdays? Who played in the 1920s and 30s?

Speaker 13 Sort of.

Speaker 13 You can keep that in.

Speaker 13 I've got a troublesome mouth ulcer.

Speaker 13 That's my excuse.

Speaker 13 I feel we, I mean, unless any of you know about Jorgen Juver, perhaps it's one for Wilson or Lars. Wales away, Iceland tonight, Scotland and Croatia tomorrow.

Speaker 13 We'll talk about those games and the Finland and England game on Monday.

Speaker 13 Now, I suppose we're obliged to talk about Manchester City against the Premier League.

Speaker 13 I'm just trying to see. Yes, no happy faces on the Zoom call.

Speaker 13 They have claimed success in their fight against the Premier League and its

Speaker 13 rules over associated party transactions. The Premier League have claimed success in their fight against Manchester City and

Speaker 13 its rules over associated party transactions.

Speaker 13 Okay, so the verdict laid down by a panel of judges at an arbitration tribunal appeared to confirm the necessity of APT rules and the Premier League's right to enforce them.

Speaker 13 Barry, you've spent the last few days trying to understand it?

Speaker 1 I'd spent time trying to understand it.

Speaker 1 And look, I'm not a solicitor, I'm not an accountant, I'm not a lawyer, barrister.

Speaker 1 I wish we didn't have to discuss this sort of thing.

Speaker 1 Both sides claim victory. Barney Ronne wrote an article in which he likened it to the ref raising both boxers' arms at the end of a bruising fight, and I suppose that's kind of it.

Speaker 1 There's a 175-page document there for anyone to read if they're of a mind. I'll be honest, I'm in the middle of

Speaker 1 Richard Osme's latest novel, and my the latest rebus arrived in the post today, so I don't have time to read a 175-page

Speaker 1 document on on

Speaker 1 associated partery transactions and but it does seem like Manchester City who I'll be honest I'm I'm one of those people who hopes they lose everything and as Pep says get wiped off the face of the earth it would amuse me greatly but they do seem to have

Speaker 1 had

Speaker 1 a victory of sorts insofar as this is what I've taken from this and I'm not going to lie as soon as I saw that Kieran Maguire, friend of the show, and Kevin Day, friend of our Sunday radio show, had covered it on their Price of Football podcast, I went and I said, well, they'll have done a version for dummies like me.

Speaker 1 And they had, and I listened to their

Speaker 1 Man City versus the Premier League for dummies, and I'm still not massively clued in as to what happened. But what Manchester City have done is gone, right?

Speaker 1 So we all know about these inflated market value sponsorship deals they're accused of having.

Speaker 13 We're all aware of those.

Speaker 1 But what they've done is raise the issue that loads of owners,

Speaker 1 for example, or Mashiri at Everton, Tony Bloom at Brighton,

Speaker 1 Stan Cronky at Arsenal, they loan the club's money at very tiny

Speaker 1 rates of interest or no interest rates at all. And Manchester City have raised the issue.

Speaker 1 Well, oh, hold on, you're accusing us of this, getting an unfair advantage through these inflated market value sponsorships. I've got bored even just saying inflated market value sponsorship.

Speaker 1 Yes, me too. But

Speaker 1 what about these owners who are loaning their clubs, you know, hundreds of millions of pounds and not charging any interest? They're also getting an unfair advantage.

Speaker 1 And you have to say they have a point there. So that's something the Premier League have to go and think about and have a meeting about.

Speaker 1 What we're Manchester City trying to achieve by bringing this case against the Premier League. I'm not sure.
We will find out in due course, I suppose.

Speaker 13 Does anyone else have anything? I'm Pean, you're in Manchester and you have an iPad and a stylus.

Speaker 14 So, you know, is it the talk of the town?

Speaker 12 No.

Speaker 12 Not in my town. Anyway,

Speaker 12 I think most people are just kind of like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're in court for this and this and this. And oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 12 It's just one of those things where, I mean, I've been trying to read in not the big long pages, but like, you know, things that have been online just to try and get my head around it.

Speaker 12 And I just can't. And I've given up now.
It's kind of a win-win for both, but it's also a lose-lose for both. So

Speaker 12 at the end of the day, it's like nobody really has won and it's just confusing.

Speaker 12 So in those kind of situations, I take a step back and go, well, I just care about what's happening on the pitch and I don't need to know about what's happening around it because I am none the wiser and I don't know and I'm not clued up about it.

Speaker 12 So there's no point trying to worry about it now.

Speaker 14 My view is this: that, okay, Manchester City

Speaker 14 at the moment seem to be taking on the world, don't they, or taking on the rest of the Premier League. This case,

Speaker 14 whatever it was, appears to be an action taken

Speaker 14 almost in case of what happens with their

Speaker 14 115 charges to sort of get

Speaker 14 a leverage in early

Speaker 14 as I understand it and so that when that and

Speaker 14 point out that the Premier League's rules are not as tight as they might be legally, and so that should they be in a court case against the Premier League, should that arise,

Speaker 14 then that they can pick apart the Premier League, maybe drive a bus through any legal case that the Premier League might have against them, for example.

Speaker 14 And

Speaker 14 it appears that they think that they've done that. The Premier League argue that they haven't.

Speaker 14 But it's being pointed out, this has got nothing to do with football.

Speaker 14 I think that there's a lot of psychic energy wasted on X, there's a lot of psychic energy wasted on X, and have lots of things, but wasted on this nonsense that has nothing to do with football.

Speaker 14 And you've got Manchester City fans

Speaker 14 claiming that their owners are freedom fighters, fighting for the sanctity of football, so that football clubs can be what they want to be, because there's this red faction that's taking down the rest of football and stopping everybody and it's absolute nonsense.

Speaker 14 I actually saw a tweet from an Aston Villa fan saying I've got such respect for Manchester City fans because they want the same for us as them which is that we can enjoy success like them because they're like that Manchester City fans because we know that all manchester all football fans really want everyone else to be successful, don't they?

Speaker 13 It sounds like a sounds like a Manchester United fan speaking to me, John. That's all I can hear.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, I see.

Speaker 14 There we go. There we go.
The red cartel bias, you know, and there we go. We've run away with myself.
I've run away with myself. I've let the bias roll over me.

Speaker 14 But I'll tell you what, it's got nothing to do with football. The deeper in these legal treacle that football gets dragged into.

Speaker 14 One of the funny things is that Keldo Almer Barrack, who is the Manchester City CEO,

Speaker 14 he said he owns a club, runs a club. He has said, you know, what about respecting the league?

Speaker 14 Well, yeah, what about respecting the league?

Speaker 14 What we find in the Manchester City case and the fact that Newcastle and a couple of other clubs have joined in them is that the Premier League clubs consider themselves rivals, and I don't think that's particularly healthy for the English game or the English Premier League.

Speaker 14 It might be time for everybody to get the big boy pants on, stop paying legal fees, and maybe work it all out.

Speaker 14 because you know you may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one that thinks they can sort this out because it is nonsense, it's got nothing to do with football. That's the end of it.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 I think the one thing that has come out of this is what Everton

Speaker 1 and subsequently Leicester and now Man City have shown is that the Premier League are kind of winging it and

Speaker 1 they're how

Speaker 1 we really do need a regulatory.

Speaker 14 Yes, yes, and the Premier League are doing an incredibly bad job. Let's say that,

Speaker 14 if you're of a mind to support Majesty, are doing a really bad job of protecting their reputation because it does seem quite easy to drive a bus through some of the stuff that they've put out there.

Speaker 14 So there you go.

Speaker 13 This isn't the big verdict, of course. Well, the one which pertains to the 115 financial charges were due in January.
Hopefully there isn't a new rebus out just around then.

Speaker 13 I don't know how much notice we should take of legal expert Noel Gallagher. According to the Mail, he's added

Speaker 13 his name to the list of city supporters who've signed a change.org petition calling for Richard Masters to step down.

Speaker 13 Yes. On change.org, it said, it's become clear that Masters is merely a mouthpiece for the red cartel.

Speaker 13 He's targeted and continues to target those that will shape the future of English football on behalf of those that are trapped in the past. Signed, Noel Gallagher made a veil.

Speaker 13 The mail say they believe that is Noel Gallagher, of course. It may not be Noel Gallagher.
It might just be someone who wrote, my name's Noel Gallagher in the change.org petition.

Speaker 13 Let's talk about some actual football. And Johan Nieskens, what a player he was.
Sadly died at the age of 73.

Speaker 13 Part of the generation credited with introducing total football, part of the team that reached two consecutive World Cup finals in the 70s, won three European Cups before he was 21 with Ajax.

Speaker 13 Peena is the most Dutch person on this panel. Like, he was such an influential part of that, obviously before any of our time playing.

Speaker 13 But I think the interesting thing about Niskins is he's actually until he died, I hadn't really watched any of him.

Speaker 13 Like, it's only in this, like, compared to some other Dutch greats or some other world greats of football, someone I, perhaps to my shame, didn't know as much about.

Speaker 12 Yeah, no, I agree with that, and I think really for me, it's the same.

Speaker 12 I get stories, and you obviously can watch things online nowadays, but I have stories from my dad telling me about him, and that's kind of how I sort of learnt about this player.

Speaker 12 And obviously, you know, unfortunately, because of the passing, he, you know, becomes more sort of into the news, and people start, you know, bringing up old footage of him and what he was like as a player.

Speaker 12 And I have to say, like, I didn't know, you know, as much about him as some of the other Dutch greats.

Speaker 12 But, you know, again, when you have these players that have really sort of guided the way that we look at football in the modern day and some of the things that they did when they were playing, as you mentioned, to be so young and to have those accolades already is so impressive.

Speaker 12 And, you know, obviously, the fact that he's Dutch also is a proud thing for us

Speaker 12 as someone that's from Holland. And, you know, we've got quite a lot of legendary football players in our past and in our present as well.
So, you know,

Speaker 12 terribly sad to lose someone like him. But yeah, it's credit to the Dutch teams as well that we had a player like him.

Speaker 12 And like I said, it was all stories stories that I'd got from my dad, who was very much sort of looking up to players like that when he was younger.

Speaker 12 And yeah, so it was nice that he was able to pass that down to us as well.

Speaker 14 I was going to say that that 1974 Dutch team and the IX team that came before it just has that cachet, doesn't it? Of like,

Speaker 14 well, they look like the 1970s, don't they? I mean, they have that sort of flowing hair.

Speaker 13 Yeah, the sideburns, Niskin's sideburns are amazing.

Speaker 14 That very liberal, laconic style of football. And Niskins was essentially the lungs of that team.

Speaker 14 He was the.

Speaker 14 It was described to me a few years after that that he was a

Speaker 14 Brian Robson of that team. Obviously, Brian Robson is a player from 30 years ago now, but you know, that's in Barcelona, he's a hero as well, because he went after Cruyff.

Speaker 14 And I saw some footage the other day, I think long after Cruyff had gone to America and gone back to Holland himself

Speaker 14 of Naskins. I think they won the Cup Winners' Cup or the UEFA Cup and him in the middle of Barcelona just being hailed as an absolute legend there.
And one of those figures that

Speaker 14 you'd occasionally see him as assistant coach to a few people and just think, oh, that's absolute, that's Johan Naskins, absolute 70s legend.

Speaker 14 But yeah, as I say, I mean, there's that book, isn't there? Brilliant Orange by David Winnie, which is absolutely excellent, which really captures that team.

Speaker 14 And

Speaker 14 he Naskins just comes across as

Speaker 14 a player that would have been brilliant in any era, like a very modern player of his time and would be fantastic now.

Speaker 13 Yeah,

Speaker 13 nicknamed the Dutch lung, Johan II, Anna Barcelona El Toro,

Speaker 13 Guardian writing that he could claim to be the godfather of modern pressing. And

Speaker 13 it's worth having a look at Ajax tweeted out like a little three-minute package of some of his goals and him chatting away.

Speaker 13 Just one thing in the 70s, when they scored a goal, the celebration was generally just stay where you were and just jump up and down like a computer game with your hands in the air.

Speaker 13 It was just such a great image of 70s footballers.

Speaker 14 They were all tired, though, because they're on those heavy pitches. You sort of jump up and just

Speaker 14 okay. Let's jog back.

Speaker 13 Let's talk about any ester retired at the age of 40. Please allow me to be a little emotional today.

Speaker 13 He said, I never thought this day would come. I never imagined it.

Speaker 13 Yeah, all these tears we've shed these days are tears of emotion of pride. They're not tears of sadness.
They're tears of that boy from a small town like Fuenta Bahia.

Speaker 13 Hopefully, I pronounced that correctly, who had the dream of being a footballer, and we achieved it after a lot of hard work, sacrifice, of never giving up essential values in my life.

Speaker 13 I feel very proud of this path. With all the people who have accompanied me, his honours list, Barry, is ridiculous.
I mean, nine Na Liga titles.

Speaker 13 It helps if you played for Barcelona in that time, obviously.

Speaker 13 Nine Na Liga titles, four Champions Leagues.

Speaker 13 Euro 2008, the winning goal in the 2010 World Cup.

Speaker 13 Player of the tournament when Spain won 2012.

Speaker 13 And, you know, just him and Javi and Busquets. It's just a, you know, it's a perfect triangle, isn't it?

Speaker 1 They were amazing. And reading the tributes to him, his

Speaker 1 entire, very long career,

Speaker 1 I won't lie, I thought he's retired about two years ago, but there you go. Finger on the pulse, mate.
But

Speaker 1 due to, you know, word counts or whatever, his entire career seems to have been boiled down to the, quote, unforgettable goals he scored against Chelsea in the Champions League and the Netherlands, sorry, Peene,

Speaker 1 in the World Cup final in 2010. Goals that were so unforgettable, I couldn't remember either of them.
I had to go and look them up.

Speaker 1 And yeah, the Chelsea goal, Chelsea, they've put out Juventus, they put out Liverpool, they're one out up against Barris in the semi at home after drawing 0-0 in the first leg.

Speaker 1 Barrison down to 10 men after Abidal's been sent off in the 66th minute.

Speaker 1 Michael Essian had put Chelsea up after nine minutes. They're on course to go through to the final.
Then a cross comes in for the right. John Terry heads it clear out towards the touchline.

Speaker 1 Michael Essian

Speaker 1 makes a pig's ear of a clearance allowing Messi to square the ball across the face of the penalty area for

Speaker 1 Iniesta and he fires into the top corner boom chelsea are out and then the the world cup final 116th minute uh against the dutch arian robbins missed two one-on-ones with the the dutch goalkeeper uh stecklenberg one of which he was fouled actually by carlos poyle

Speaker 1 and and i can't remember should it have been a free kick or a penalty it should have been something yeah iniesta scores the winner in that game too Sort of the ball stands up nicely for him.

Speaker 1 He follies it across the face of goal into the bottom corner. But

Speaker 1 as I say, two unforgettable goals that I was unable to remember, but I have a head like a sieve.

Speaker 1 But what a career he had. And like you say, it's very easy to win all those.

Speaker 1 trophies when you're playing for Barcelona, but to get into that Barcelona team and basically be the heartbeat of it is quite something.

Speaker 13 And actually, Prince, you mentioned it, it's interesting when you think about him and you mentioned ronaldinho as well you think about these footballers who are kind of standalone players like ronaldinho but when i think of iniesta i can't think of him as an individual right i just think of him as in that like basically him and javi i feel like they should just be they should set up a business together now i don't know doing whatever just going around removals but they have to turn up together

Speaker 1 lofts clearances and as baz says yeah yeah why not just but they're just like that 2011 is it the when did they take Man United apart?

Speaker 13 Was that 2011?

Speaker 14 2011, yeah.

Speaker 1 You just, that,

Speaker 13 you know, it doesn't mean he's not a great individual footballer, Peene, but I just mean, like, I just think of him in that, just in that midfield being so effortlessly brilliant.

Speaker 12 Yeah, and I think what made him so good is he was able to pick that impossible pass, wasn't he?

Speaker 12 Which obviously you need to work as a team to be able to let that put, you know, work out the way it has.

Speaker 12 And I think it was his brain, his footballing brain was just so smart, you know, he was always thinking, you know, multiple steps ahead, which,

Speaker 12 you know, ultimately football is a team sport. And he was the ultimate team player in the sense that he fit in so well into that, especially into that Barcelona side that you mentioned.

Speaker 12 And I think that's what made him so, so clever.

Speaker 12 He was just able to read the game so well. He was an absolute pro.
And, you know, you go back to that goal that he scored against the Netherlands. I was 13 at the time, but I remember watching it.

Speaker 12 We were in a group of us, well, my family, all wearing orange in an English pub,

Speaker 12 trying to be the loudest ones in there.

Speaker 12 This is bought the Netherlands, but still, you're in awe of him and what he did for that, you know, that Spain team and when they won the World Cup and the things that he won with Barcelona as well.

Speaker 12 You know, he's one of those players that you just look at and you think that is just brilliant, brilliant football. And it was interesting, actually.

Speaker 12 I was reading, since he announced his retirement, I was reading some of the articles about him.

Speaker 12 And there was a couple of articles that were written a couple of years ago and just about his upbringing and in life before he went to um to football before he started in the youth teams at barcelona and just the enjoyment that he had of just playing football you know on the streets where he could play it and and and that was what he said was his sort of really good grounding was playing together uh sort of just out on the streets wherever he could find time and space to play he he has that sort of era of just pure brilliance around him and um and yeah i think there's a lot of footballers that that can learn a lot and have learnt a lot from a player like him.

Speaker 14 Well, I was lucky enough to be at that World Cup final, which he scored the goal. You know, you never forget that, do you? It was just

Speaker 14 the release of emotion from the Spanish team when that goal went in because it was an incredibly tense game, very dirty game, as we all recall.

Speaker 14 And the other thing is, I was also at the 2011 Champions League final when him, Messi, and Javi just destroyed Manchester United. Just that rhythm that they they got into of passing.

Speaker 13 It's ridiculous, that game, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. That game is just ridiculous.

Speaker 14 But the 2009 one, I wasn't at Stanford Bridge for that game, but I was in London that evening and I did happen to catch that goal. I was in a pub.

Speaker 14 And he hits it like a sort of golf shot, doesn't he? Into the top corner. It's almost like a swing.
And it goes in.

Speaker 14 That night, as I was walking back to catch the train home, there was a load of Barcelona fans who'd just come from Stanford Bridge, all jumping in the fountain at Trafalgar Square to celebrate that.

Speaker 14 So, yeah,

Speaker 14 a genius player.

Speaker 14 My favourite player

Speaker 14 of all time is. I've always said Zindian Zidane.
Iniesta's level of skill was only just a little bit below that, I would say. Just when you watch him in the flesh, it was just.

Speaker 14 And the other thing is, like Zidane, he didn't look like a footballer. He just had his own unique style.

Speaker 13 Enjoy your retirement.

Speaker 1 My favourite player of all time now wears a tinfoil hat and sells CBD oil online.

Speaker 1 So, you know, there you go.

Speaker 13 Before we end part two, I'd like to draw your attention to a really powerful piece in The Guardian by Eve Dehan. It's on the website.
We'll link it in the show notes as well.

Speaker 13 Spurs fan, she was sexually assaulted on a train after their game against Brentford a couple of weeks ago by a male football fan. It is a really difficult.
uh but grim

Speaker 13 but important read and a reminder that uh so much more needs to be done. As Eve says in the piece, I want to go see the club I love, support and pay to watch.

Speaker 13 My whole body fills with dread when I now think of the journey there and back for the next game. This is a public call for clubs, British Transport Police, TfL to please do better.

Speaker 13 At the very least, invest in campaigns that address this behaviour, explore policies that make these spaces safe for women.

Speaker 13 We did a special on misogyny and football probably a couple of years ago now. It was really interesting to hear listeners' stories.

Speaker 13 We'll link to that episode as well in the show notes too, but definitely worth reading. and we'll be back in a second.

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Speaker 13 Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Let's talk about Jürgen Klopp briefly.
A few months ago, I said I don't see myself on the sidelines anymore, and that's still the case.

Speaker 13 He said on Instagram, he's been appointed global head of soccer at Red Bull. I still love football, I still love working.
Red Bull gives me the perfect platform for that.

Speaker 13 Uh, Red Bull says Klopp will not be involved in day-to-day operations, will advise on playing philosophy, transfer strategy, and coaching development.

Speaker 13 Did we hope, John, that Klopp went and worked for someone nice, like Forrest Green Rovers or Lewis, or Dulich Hamlet?

Speaker 13 He had this image, right, of being he's one of the good guys, and now he's joined the evil energy drinks empire.

Speaker 18 Yeah, um, well, this is one of these things, isn't it, in football where

Speaker 18 it's this idea of false idols and the fact that

Speaker 18 people don't always do what you want them to do in football. And in Germany, in particular, Red Bull are considered to be this evil force because they don't follow the 50 plus one

Speaker 18 fan arrangement because they essentially did an MK Dons on a club in Leipzig.

Speaker 18 But you go to Germany, you will see Jürgen Klopp just about everywhere because he's in an advert, he's on hoardings. This is a guy that likes his money.

Speaker 18 In Liverpool, I think there's a certain amount of disappointment too.

Speaker 18 But at no point has he himself criticised Red Bull. I did the story for The Guardian yesterday.

Speaker 18 The only thing we could find was that he'd actually said that he really likes the organisation.

Speaker 18 One of his close friends was Ralph Ranyick, of course, who's really associated with that movement, with the Red Bull organisation.

Speaker 18 My disappointment, actually, is maybe we'll see him as a Germany manager, but I would have liked to see him manage another club. But as he said, he spent 25 years in the dugout.
It's a long time.

Speaker 18 And we saw that it took a lot out of him towards the end of his time at Liverpool.

Speaker 18 And he said, I mean, Jonathan Lou wrote about it, and I think it was a very good point, that

Speaker 18 he pretty much said, you know, like, I can't walk on water as a manager. And everyone sort of expected,

Speaker 18 okay, in football, in politics, and music, and all this everything,

Speaker 18 people want this person to reflect all of what they are, of what they want from people, to be this and to work for the right people and do the right things.

Speaker 18 Working for Red Bull, I'm not sure, is the worst thing in the world. It's a fizzy drinks manufacturer.
There are far worse things. He is working for another company.
He's got a new job.

Speaker 18 I would suggest it is possibly a holding job until he becomes Germany manager.

Speaker 18 And he's done with being a manager for now but it might only be for now.

Speaker 1 I mean look football is a bit of a cesspit and if you dig deep enough into what anyone does that you'll find hypocrisy myself included but I clop always portrayed himself as someone who genuinely got

Speaker 1 fan culture and what it's all about and Red Bull is the very antithesis of that so I can see why people are disappointed and it's easy to call him a bit of a shill and some people have been saying well working for fenway sports group was no different i disagree because

Speaker 1 you know fenway sports group didn't take a team that was in the premier league nor northern uh best division national league yeah yeah yeah national league northern and

Speaker 1 you know, rebrand them, cover them in Red Bull logos,

Speaker 1 spend a load of money on them and get them promoted.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, I'd be slightly disappointed. I think I wrote an article about it the other day.
It was only, you know, for Football Daily, which is

Speaker 1 satire in adverted commas. So I did go in two-footed, but I

Speaker 1 wouldn't stand wholly over what I wrote. But yeah, I find it slightly disappointing, I have to say.

Speaker 13 Garrett Southgate in other manager news says he won't be returning to a coaching role for at least a year.

Speaker 13 Presumably, as Joel writes, he'll be on the board at whoever makes dandelion and burdock until then.

Speaker 13 I was thinking about the Southgate look-alike the other day. Just think he actually had quite a good run, didn't he? I think because they cut to someone in the crowd who looked a bit like him tonight.

Speaker 13 Joe says, How about a sidebar on Axel Twinzabe cutting himself doing the dishes? And how nice it is to hear about a footballer who does his own dishes.

Speaker 13 He needed to have surgery. He nearly lost a thumb in a freak accident while washing up.
I mean, that can be of a sharp knife in the suds.

Speaker 1 Can be an issue, can't it? I cut the kind of

Speaker 1 area between thumb and forefinger, which I'm going to guess is the same place Axel, while vigorously washing a glass the other night. So I feel his pain.
Are you okay?

Speaker 13 I'm fine.

Speaker 1 I did nearly lose my thumb, but

Speaker 1 I don't like who.

Speaker 1 I know footballers earn a lot of money, but you're not going to employ someone specifically to do your washing up, are you?

Speaker 13 Maybe you would i think you might i don't that's a very good question yeah

Speaker 1 or do you just have a housekeeper like you know

Speaker 13 who's originally hired as a physiotherapist but ended up being a generous skivvy which i always had a problem with that show because of that it's a good it's a good point um i don't know we'll have maybe we'll ask some footballers if they uh you know if they employ someone specifically for that you can't just if it's just one if it's just a plate for some toast you'd think you could do that how sharp a knife is he to eat toast with i mean well it was a glass it was a glass that smashed and

Speaker 13 cut in his hand he actually holds the world record for the fastest time to finish a game of hungry hippos in 17.36 seconds

Speaker 18 so you know this those days are gone

Speaker 13 exactly um obviously all mentions of uh darren bent injuring himself at charlton making a sandwich and uh dave besant injuring himself dropping a bottle of salad cream on his toe we'll finish with this from uh harry Harry more Byron Bay News.

Speaker 13 He says, dear Max, hope you don't mind me getting in touch. I need you to help me settle a debate with my mate, Alex.

Speaker 13 I'm adamant that it was you who very kindly gave us a plate of spring rolls at the railway pub in Byron. Being a football fan, I thought I recognised you and subsequently mentioned it to Alex.

Speaker 13 He told me it wasn't and that he was an avid listener of the Guardian Football Weekly podcast. If indeed it was you, thank you so much for the spring rolls.
They were delicious.

Speaker 13 And I would love it if it's not too much to ask if you could tell Alex on the next Football Weekly podcast that it was you who gave us the spring rolls. And he is very welcome.

Speaker 13 Of course, there is a chance I'm wrong and it wasn't you, in which case, ignore me. Thanks so much.
Keep up the great work, Harry. It was just to point out, this is not like a humble brag.

Speaker 13 I'd ordered the fettuccine with mushrooms and the chef accidentally made me spring rolls. So we got them for nothing.
And we didn't really want them. So I just passed them to the people on the table.

Speaker 13 I could have let them go to waste, but I thought I'd pass them on. So you are indeed right.

Speaker 13 And Alex, who is a huge fan of mine, but can't recognize me, when I'm literally handing him a plate of spring rolls

Speaker 13 right there in his face.

Speaker 13 But thanks for listening anyway.

Speaker 13 And that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody.
Thank you, John.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 13 Thank you, Peene. Please come again.

Speaker 12 Thank you for having me on.

Speaker 13 Cheers, Baz.

Speaker 1 Fettuccine and mushrooms.

Speaker 13 Well, it was a kind of...

Speaker 13 What's wrong with that?

Speaker 1 I'd rather spring rolls, if I'm honest.

Speaker 13 Well, that's okay. People are different.
I mean, that's what makes the world a beautiful place.

Speaker 1 The highlight of my evening tonight was crab linguine at half-time in the England.

Speaker 18 Sounds nice. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, well done. Crabs, you don't ask me how much it cost.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 13 How much was the crab meat?

Speaker 1 Nah.

Speaker 1 Oh, come on.

Speaker 1 I saw weeks ago on Celebrity Master Chef, I saw Roshenda, who played a baddie on Line of Duty.

Speaker 1 She made a crab linguine in the semifinal. I couldn't stop thinking about it.
It looked so nice. So I decided I was going to make.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 so I went to the only shop in sort of the Clapham-Brixton area that sells crab meat.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it was embarrassing. I feel ashamed how much I spent for a very small amount of crab.
But I got two dinners out of it, and they were both very nice. Well done, Barry.

Speaker 13 Thank you. That's okay.
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Speaker 1 This is The Guardian.