Arsenal ease past PSG and Brest rise to second best – Football Weekly Extra podcast

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Arsenal eased past PSG at the Emirates.

Just felt so comfortable for most of the time.

No frantic last-minute escapades, just two early goals and then some kicking it about.

How many brave headers does Kai Hervertz need to score before people start suggesting he does do centre-forward things?

And another wonderful performance from Bakaio Saka.

Elsewhere last night, it was pretty much a case of good, rich teams beating not as good poorer teams.

Feeling like the nostalgic Champions League group stages of 2023-24.

Dortmund, Hammer, Hapless, Celtic, Man City, Canterpass, Slovan Bratislava, and there are simple wins for Barcelona Inter.

Hammering of the Night belongs to Brest, who are up to second in the AFL.

Sunderland go top of the championship while in League One.

Rotherham went away for the first time in almost two years.

You can guess where they were playing.

We'll talk the court case that might blow transfers apart, answer your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glen Denning.

Hello.

Hi, Max.

Welcome, Jonathan Faduba.

Good morning, Max.

And bonjour sava, Philippe Auclaire.

Savatio, Max.

Bonjour.

Bonjour.

Tom says over 50% of the games in the Champions League tonight have been won by four or more goals.

Seems healthy.

Well, we'll get to those games.

Let's start at the Emirates.

Arsenal 2, PSG-0.

Arsenal now, 14 games undefeated.

Arteta's best runners manager.

Opta Joe, saying they've kept 17 clean sheets in 32 games in all competitions in 2024, the most of any Premier League side across Europe's big five leagues, only Real Madrid have kept more.

This, Philippe.

It just seemed so straightforward.

Yes, it's a very odd one because i'm vaguely trying to remember a moment where i felt a little bit uncomfortable as somebody who has got some emotional i mean link with one of the teams in in presence and that certainly is not psg if you're a fan as well

anything that goes slightly wrong is multiplied by 10 or 100 right it becomes something big oh my god oh my god and in this particular case apart from a vague wobble which was nothing more than a wobble around the hour i felt yeah that's it okay game is sewn up nothing's gonna happen they're going to huff and puff and huff some more and puff some more they're not going to score if anything they might they might actually take a goal on a counterattack arsenal will win that very easily and this is bizarre because you're not expecting it you're not expecting it from that team from that club or you were not it's maybe something new that we have got to get used to that arsenal is capable of these kind of performances and it's also something that you would not necessarily expect from PSG, who played the final of the Champions League not that long ago, who are again dominating Ligue

very easily,

whatever Monaco might think.

And it shouldn't be like this.

But to be honest, that's the theme of the night, isn't it?

Is that everything was even that victory feels a bit flat to me.

Do you think part of that is because we don't really know what it means?

Because we just don't know how this league system works.

So like any result, we're all a bit sort of guessing.

It might be it might be entertaining, but we're just not sure yet.

This was probably one of the most boring Champions League nights.

And despite Brest, and I hope we will have time to talk about Brest, what happened in Salzburg, that was hilarious.

There's absolutely no way you can get invested in those games.

If you cannot get invested in Arsenal playing f with PhD at home, after

our first performance at Champions League, which was not brilliant, and it you'd feel indifferent, There's a big problem.

It might be that as the games go by,

it will be one of two things.

Either we'll switch off completely, or some kind of vague interest

will start,

I don't know,

will wake, maybe,

because there might be jeopardy for a couple of big teams.

But other than that, you know, you're looking at what to say about the game.

Well, Arsenal started well, they were pressurizing PSG very well PSG lacked bite they lacked

it's it's funny actually they lacked rhythm they lacked everything in fact

Arsenal scored that was a very nice goal

Havertz is a decent number nine

and then they're going to do through every you're going to go through every game like this just be quite nice we can all sit back and I think we should I mean maybe we should because except breast of course and and and and Celtic was also quite quite interesting but what what was interesting also is the reaction of ruisa enrique after the game i don't know if you had a chance to look at those and and because

he said basically arsenal deserved a victory uh we were not as good as we wanted to be and then the journalist said well could you please explain to us what exactly your your tactics were for that game because we couldn't quite understand and he said

I don't talk tactics to people like you because you wouldn't understand what I'm talking about.

That was nice.

That came down well.

But apart from that,

our PSU will probably qualify for whatever it is, the playoffs, the round of 32, the round of 16, when the competition actually starts in February.

Some vintage Barney Roné Baz on Kai Havertz.

Havertz may gamble around the pitch like a medical student on a fun run.

He may have the one good looks of the kind of minor Jane Austen character who rides off on a horse after an unsuccessful marriage proposal, but he's also very good in the air.

I mean, he does, he is scoring number nine like goals isn't it so brave this is another brave header from him

yeah it was a very brave header he could have got clattered and um

hurt

but i i don't know has his bravery ever been called into question despite his resemblance to a wan in my mind yeah if you are that kind of sort of fleety flaky type you know, languid mover.

I don't, you know, it's not Steve Bull.

That's, you know, that's sort of, and I and I think that's sort of the accusation is he's not a, he's not a inverted commas, proper number nine, and yet that is a proper number nine, that is a Steve Bull goal.

Yeah, I mean, the way he pulled away from Paco, I think it was, the centre half, you know, they were tied together, and then in a split second, Havertz had two or three yards of space, and the keeper came at Donnaroma came out, he leapt.

As I say, he could have got clattered, didn't.

But yeah, it was a good goal.

I mean, you say about this game, we're not sure what to make of it because we don't know what the new format of the competition is going to throw.

But I think the problem is we do know, and PSG knows, and everyone knows.

Nine points will almost certainly be enough to see you through to the knockout stages.

And PSG,

they already have three in the bank.

This defeat probably won't matter.

I found it odd, you know.

We talk about Havertz playing like a number nine.

PSG played without a striker, basically.

Um, that

a

midfielder playing up front in Lee.

Usman Dembele was left at home because him and uh Luis Enrique had some sort of row at the weekend, and he was apparently not being a team player, so he was left at home for disciplinary reasons.

But yeah, it was a fairly routine win for Arsenal, as Philippe said.

And apart from that wobble they often tend to have in games where it's like their minds wander or something,

it was very straightforward, wasn't it?

I just wondered, Jonathan, if

I think we all agree it wasn't a fascinating game, but if you're an Arsenal fan, I guess it might be nice to have that kind of performance against a side who are meant to be, you know, top tier.

that actually you walk away going, oh, well, that's fine.

These are things quite straightforward.

Yeah, I think it was an encouraging win for for arsenal and um nicola teta came afterwards and praised their maturity and the fact that they can play against the top team in europe i think that's a mental hurdle that they're looking to get over and they kind of showed that i did worry it made me question psg a little bit and um obviously in the context of the french league you know i'm a big lover of the french league um i've worked in the league in the past and so i've got a soft spot for french football but

I did watch that game and think to myself, where is French football at this moment in time in terms of league are?

Obviously the TV rights deal, the big reduction in in broadcast revenue that that sort of changed the face of the league a bit obviously we might come on to breast later so that's that's like a positive story um but this this didn't feel like a vintage psg that i thought you know is going to go deep in the competition and really challenge um when you're sort of missing them bele as like your key man that that is a bit of a question mark in terms of who else have you got on your on your roster uh i really like desiree due He thought he had some sort of bright moments.

Hakimi had a moment where he got in behind and sort of

should have put a cross-in probably and took a shot I think on the other near post but Raya had it covered and Nuna Mendes at the post of course in the early first half another player that I quite like but I didn't really get the sense that it was a PSG that it's really going to go anywhere and that was another part of it that made me that made the game maybe have that feel to it but I think it's a testament to Arsenal to be honest that the fact that they can make that kind of

win look routine like you said and kind of a functional win.

You know, one goal was a set piece as they've been knocking in set pieces for fun at the moment.

And Donner Rummer, I thought, was for the first goal was pretty questionable there as well.

And there's a brilliant ball from Trossard as well, who I asked my friend who's an Arsenal fan afterwards, like, does Trossard get enough credit?

And he was like, he gets an appropriate amount of credit.

So

I guess that says enough.

But I think Trossard, Trossard to me, seems to always deliver.

Whenever I watch him, he seems to sort of like, and there's a brilliant cross-I thought as well, the ball in.

And it sort of tantalised Donner Rummer, but without him being able to commit.

So no, I think to answer your question, I think Arsenal, I think it's an encouraging win.

It's the sort of win they need.

And Saka afterwards also mentioned that kind of that those are the games that they need to start winning and proving to everyone, you know, that they can

sort of just win those routine games against bigger, bigger sides, and that's a sign of a top team really for me.

So I think Arsenal are a serious team, and it was another sort of

string to their bow, Philip.

Yeah, I have to comment on Barn.

I'm sorry, this is late after the event, but I have to comment on Barney's remark on Kai Havertz, because he doesn't look like a minor character from a Jane Austen novel or something like that.

Who he really likes, it looks like is Franz Kafka.

And once I've put this notion in your mind and you look at pictures of the two, you won't be able to ever forget he looks like Franz Kafka.

PSG, to go back on what Jonathan was saying, I mean, the two things.

First of all, the fact that Lee was playing,

he was playing as a false nine because that's what he had been playing in the last few games with PSG, and he worked all right, didn't work.

So he changed that and brought in Column Wanin, that worked it a bit better, whatever.

But I mean,

it was not crazy from

Lucien Rickey, but perhaps not the right core.

And also the other thing, when Dembele is your main man, I think you've got a problem.

I really think you've got a problem.

He's the most frustrating player I've ever seen in a PSG shirt, I think.

He can be on his night absolutely electric, and he can also be the player who's going to miss.

five chances on the trot, easy ones.

I think they don't know where they are at the moment,

is the thing.

They have no repaire, as we say in French, no way to, they don't have a compass.

They have a map and they don't have a compass.

So Ruis Henrique is in charge.

He's going to have to be like Gollum,

a leading Frodo to Mount Doom, you know, one of those things.

And what's he going to find on the way there?

I don't know.

He who seeks does not find, but he who does not seek will be found is obviously a Kafka quote.

Is that how Havertz kind of glides around not wanting to be found and yet to be found?

It sort of helps his helps this movement.

Anyway, Barry, from

GCSE philosophy to you.

Just looking at

PSG's remaining fixtures,

it's tricky enough.

It doesn't look like there's too many gimmies there.

PSV at home next.

If they're to lose that or fail to win it, Atletico, Bayern Munich,

Orby, Salzburg, Man City, Stuttgart.

So

that looks quite tricky compared to some other

lists of fixtures other teams have.

So maybe they could be a big name to,

you know,

we might get one or two big names going out at the first hurdle, and that would be interesting.

And they could be one of them.

But, you know, this is a PSG team that doesn't really have superstars anymore.

Like, going back to the final they were in, Mbappe and Neymar playing in that Angel de Maria, Thiago Silva, Verati, wasn't he was there as well?

So it's quite an ordinary PSG team by comparison, but at least it's a team.

True.

Daniel says another one for Lucy Ward's conspiracy folder.

Julian Timber comes off injured at half-time after saying yesterday that the fixture schedule is dangerous.

They work fast.

Yeah, on the risks that any player saying there's too much football instantly gets crocked by the man.

To Dortmund then, John Bruin tweeting Celtic's top 24 hopes in serious jeopardy.

Rob Smythe on the NBM going, the good news for Brendan Rogers is that Celtic's heaviest defeat is 7-0.

The bad news is he was manager then as well.

And Bartha Jim saying to win your first game 5-1 and then have a minus 3 goal difference after the second game is impressive, isn't it?

Yeah, Dortmund 7.

Celtic 1.

Celtic become the first British team to concede five goals in the first half of a game in a major European competition since Cumbren Town versus Progressal Bucharest in the 97-98 Cup Winners' Cup.

And actually, Barry, we've been saying they had a reasonably friendly set of fixtures.

I know this isn't one of the games they're expected to win, but it is definitely coming down to earth with a bump.

Yeah,

Celtic have never won a match, a competitive match in Germany.

I think they've lost now 12 out of 15.

I suppose what makes this worse is that Brendan Rogers was quite bullish ahead of this game and, you know, was talking of a newfound

mindset and sense of belief and experience.

And I think we've also added some players that give us something in key areas of the pitch that you need.

And then they went out and, what, there were five, one down at halftime,

finished up 7-1.

And it was a battering.

And I think the problem with for Celtic here, well, it's the

overall problem is they're a massive fish in a small pond in the Scottish Premiership and then they go to Europe and they're a little minnow in a lake with loads of barracudas and pike in it they set up for this game the same way as they might set up for a game at home against St Johnson or Falkirk you know and

Bursa Dortmund just played through their sort of five man press

with at their absolute leisure.

Callum McGregor was left hopelessly exposed as a deep-line midfielder.

And

the only thing you could possibly argue in Celtic's favor is that almost their every mistake was punished with a gull.

And sometimes that won't happen.

What was it, Ewan Murray said in his match report?

It was like a grandmaster playing an orangutan in a game of chess.

I think he's doing our simian friend a grave misjustice because orangutans are quite intelligent creatures and you could probably teach an orangutan to play chess to a higher level of proficiency than celtic showed playing football last night um they they were battered it's a fabulous comparison because orangutan is also the name of a chess opening is that right yeah so congratulations that that was a that was a good one uh jonathan from a dormer point of view you know they changed their manager they're top of the league it's a big league to be top of i mean this was very easy, wasn't it?

But, you know, they scored some nice goals.

Adieemi was great.

I liked, is it Garassi's finish for the sixth?

And any team scoring seven, it's a nice evening for them, isn't it?

Yeah, the highlight, really, I thought, was Adiyami.

I thought it was fantastic.

Struggled, didn't he, a bit in the sort of Champions League final latter stages as well.

And there were times where he maybe showed a bit of, you know, he's a young player, and that inconsistency is going to happen, but he really was unbelievable

last night.

So that's a good sign that they've got players who are sort of stepping up.

Jamie Bino Gittens as well is a sort of maybe the...

He's lost the Bino Jonathan.

He's just Jamie Binnett.

He's lost it now for his brand.

Right, okay, just Gittens then.

Yeah, he looked good.

And Grassy, I've always quite liked Grassy.

He was at Wren, wasn't he?

I think Philippe at one point, and he's been a good player.

So, yeah, they just battered them.

The Bundles League is fairly interesting this season with obviously if it's a company at Bayern.

They drew with Leverkusen at the weekend, and that was a one-on-one offsiolonzo there.

You know, the unbeaten champions.

So there's a few sort of storylines in Germany that could be exciting this year.

But from a Celtic point of view, it was desperate.

They're going to have to sort of dust themselves down and get ready for the big one in Scottish football, which is, of course, Aberdeen.

And they'll probably do okay.

I mean, that is, as Barry said, it's really difficult, right?

There's just the two...

things you're doing are just so different at week in week out to playing this um unless you've got any strong thoughts on dortman celtic philippe i was going to move on to Slovan Bratislav and Man City.

Yes, just a remark which is at a Yemi who was yet again phenomenal last night.

I was checking him out and I realized that he used to be a Bayern Munich player.

And I'd completely missed that out.

He was actually, when he was a child, because he was born in Munich, he was a Bayern Munich player.

So I was wondering if he's going to be another one.

You know, it's a bit like the Chelsea players who go back to Chelsea and things like that.

It's going to be another one that Bayern Munich is is going to spend an awful lot of money on at some point when he was actually on their books at the age of nine or ten.

So which is about all I had to say about that game, which was hilarious

because it was technically innovative by Brendan Rogers.

He decides to play without a midfield.

And that's how it works out.

So about Brad's Lover Nil, Man City 4.

I mean, what are we meant to say about this one, Barry?

The only interesting question I have, and you can tell me if you think it's interesting or not, is Phil Foden.

This was his, he played well, it was only his second start of the season.

And I think there's an interesting Phil Foden-Cole Palmer chat and their respective trajectories, whether they're competing for the same England place, why Foden has only started twice this season, illness kept him out of a few games, so I guess that answers that question.

And obviously, he was brilliant last year, Foden, so you can't read too much into it.

But that is the most interesting comparison I could think of or question I could think of arising from this game.

You haven't actually actually asked a question.

I'm not sure what it is.

Who do you prefer, Foden or Palmer?

Is a sort of basic question on that?

You know, can I like both of them?

Can I think we're both really good?

I suppose, right, Foden was laid low with this illness for a while.

And then you have this thing where Pep

will suddenly stop picking someone for a while, and we don't know why.

And, you know, they may have displeased him in some way, either with something they did on the pitch or off the pitch uh it happens lots of players it's happened jon stones it's happened kyle walker and maybe it's happening phil foden now i don't know i i think both he and uh cole palmer are terrific cole palmer is obviously

his his trajectory cole palmer wasn't getting game time at city so he left and he was sold.

Phil Foden wasn't getting game time at City and everyone was saying, oh, well, he should go and loan to Preston or somewhere else.

And he didn't.

He stayed there.

And that's worked out very well for him.

You know, if he'd gone and loan to Preston, that might have worked out well for him, too.

We'll never know.

But Sloven Bratislava got battered by Celtic in their first game.

They lost heavily here, as I suppose we all expected them to.

This was their, between qualifiers and group games, this was their 10th Champions League match this season.

It was their 20th match of the season.

So they're just knackered.

A season that started in mid-July, I think.

So, yeah,

some of Man City's players are complaining about being overworked.

Spirit taught for poor old Football Weekly listener Guram Kashaya, aged 37.

who at one point in this game, when things were already going badly for his team, found himself in a foot race with Erling Harland.

I was like, oh man.

You have our sympathies.

Hashtag pray for Gurham.

Anyway, there was only going to be one winner of that race.

But I mean, Jeremy Doku ran amok in this game.

You know, we spoke of,

I didn't see Kevin Wimmer in the last game, and you didn't see much of him here either, because

the poor fella, he was trying to mark Doku.

He was also seemed to be toing and froing between Doku and Phil Foden and getting caught betwixt in between and ended up marking neither.

But Jeremy Doku cost more than twice as much as the entire Sloven Bratislava squad.

You know,

this is where we are.

So it's no surprise that that city won easily.

I could have scored quite a few more, but I don't think Sloven Bratislava disgraced themselves either, you know.

It was a crazy mismatch, and it could have, perhaps, should have been double figures because Dominik Dekach, I mean, we should say, had a great game for Fostova and go for Bratislava.

But also the perverse effect of this complete mismatch is that, you know, well done to them for qualifying, because it's crazy what they had to do to be there.

But the amount of money they're going to make from that, which is going to be colossal by their standards, is going to create in their own league the same disparity.

as the one that we that has led that is leading to Manchester City winning 4-0 and perhaps

should be winning 8-0.

So it's not only the perversity of the system, it's not just that you have mismatches, but then it engenders mismatches in the domestic leagues for the weaker clubs as well.

So it's fantastic.

Yeah, it's Celtic as well, or you know, a case in point, too.

So,

yeah, Jonathan.

I thought the biggest talking point from the game was, but maybe it's like contradictory in terms of how good city are, is the fact that they only had four or less players on their bench.

And I don't know if that was a tactical decision by Pep.

But I do see sort of creaking signs in the squad.

And I do think that that's maybe a storyline that's going to pop up.

I mean, I don't know if Haaland does get an injury, or is he expected to play 75 games this season in a row?

Because if he does, anything happen to him, who replaces him?

I don't really see a striker on that bench.

And James McAtee obviously came on for him and scored a goal.

And Pep praised him after the match.

But McAtee's sort of history is loans at Sheffield United.

And he did get a few goals there.

And he is an exciting, you you know, young talent, 21 years old.

But I'm just looking at it and thinking who comes in for Haaland if there does something happen to him.

Two of the people on City's bench were goalkeepers as well.

So there was only, I think, six outfield players.

Is there someone older than Scott Carson who was there as well?

They have John Burridge.

Scott Carson and John Burridge, I hope so.

And I guess with Haaland, right, he's just got to be very careful not to say that the schedule is too packed because then City are in trouble.

And on that point, by the way,

Alexis McAllister did say that in the the press conference uh pretty much press conference that there's too many games so if he if he gets a knock tonight then we're seriously on to something joachim says this and i've it's a great question he says ever look at pep's assistant thinking why is kevin keegan there and i always look at pep's assistant and think why is kevin keegan that literally every time it just half a second of what's kevin gets a brilliant question why i've never brought it up before but yeah if you haven't noticed that now it's all you'll think when pep is sort of you know yelling at the person next to him and it is kevin keegan anyway that'll do for part one part two we'll go through the rest of the Champions League games

hi pod fans of America Max here Barry's here too hello football weekly is supported by the remarkable paper pro now if you're a regular listener to this show you'll have heard us talk before about the remarkable paper pro we already know that remarkable is the leader in the paper tablet category digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper but with the power of modern technology but there's something new and exciting the remarkable paper pro move remarkable a brand name and an adjective man yeah it's their most portable paper tablet yet it holds all your notes to-dos and documents but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office like maybe a football journalist Barry although not like you

a proper football journalist mate exactly too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out this paper tablet doesn't it'll never beat or buzz to try and grab your attention, so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you.

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Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game, Day Scratchers from the California Lottery.

Play is everything.

Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

Hey, a little play makes your day, and today it made the game.

That's all for now.

Coach, one more question.

Play the new Los Angeles Chargers, San Francisco 49ers, and Los Angeles Rams scratchers from the California Lottery.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So Barca beat Youngboys 5-0.

Their first win in the Champions League this season after losing to Monaco.

And over 50 goals now for Lewandovsky after turning 30.

So only the second player in Champions League history to do that after Cristiano Ronaldo.

Interbeat Red Star Belgrade 4-0, seven changes from the weekend.

Does anyone have any strong thoughts on either of these?

Well, I suppose the inter-Red Star game, Cal Noglu scored a wonderful free kick.

I thought it was a wonderful free kick, and then I thought, oh, did that get a deflection off the head of someone in the wall?

And then I watched several replays, and I remain undecided as to whether it got a deflection off the head of someone at the end of the wall or not.

Either way, whether it did or it didn't, a marvelous free kick.

Mark Arnautovich scored his first goal for inter.

Yeah, Latoro Martinez took advantage of a defensive blunder.

But yeah, another mismatch.

Can't be his first goal for interview.

Oh, must be sorry, first goal of the season for

inter.

Images of him scoring.

I don't know how long it's been there, but it's possible with Arnold Vitch, but I've definitely, in my mind, seen him score goals for them.

Philippe.

Should we have a snicker meter for football?

You know, like in cricket.

For the war.

Yeah, for the war.

Well, just to know if it's a perfect free kick or not, just Mariah Erasmus going, just rock and roll it, please.

I now have a decision.

No, well, I did rock and roll it at great length, and I couldn't decide.

Barry being in every stadium, being the third umpire on decisions, and just taking ages over it.

Let's go to the route of the night then, Philippe.

Salzburg-0 breast four.

The second in the league.

Biggest away win ever for a Champions League debutant and a 4-0 win at Salzburg.

Enjoy it, fans of Stad Brestois, who were there in force, by the way.

Well done to them, because it's never going to happen again.

Because if you want to know that a 4-0 is not a 4-0, it's not a 4-0, you just compare what happened in Bratislava and what happened in Salzburg.

Because they were battered for for a while.

And actually, they were battered for a little bit longer than that.

And it was every goal was scored against the run-off play.

It was magnificent.

I absolutely loved it because

it just didn't make sense.

But on the other hand, it showed one of the great qualities of this Stad-Brestois team that honestly nobody had seen coming last season.

Absolutely nobody.

It's the fact that

They wear everything very lightly and easily.

They have no complex.

They don't have any baggage.

They carry on.

They've got some very decent players.

I mean, Abdel Asima had a knight to remember who's from Brighton, by the way.

He's on London from Brighton.

And they just believe in themselves, scored a few good goals, but my goodness, it was not domination away from home.

It's like when the goals were scored, it's like, did this really happen?

And did this really happen?

And in the end, yes, Zalzberg were, you know, thinking this is absolutely awful.

What's going on?

What have we done?

That must be karma for something else.

But well done to them.

They have got now two wins.

I was looking at their program for the rest of the Champions League.

I'm not absolutely sure they're going to add one to that, but enjoy it while it lasts, guys.

It was really great fun.

Labour Kusen beat Milan 1-0.

You mentioned that the Bundesliga looking interesting.

How are Labour Kusen shaping up, Jonathan?

Yeah, it looked okay.

Obviously, they've lost the game, so that's something different and new for their fans in recent years.

But it was an exciting game, and for Vince and Company, it was a good tactical test out that match.

I quite enjoyed the game.

He sort of tweaked the side a little bit, but Kane's still scoring goals, and it looked okay.

In terms of Levikusen, you know, Victor Boniface is sort of flying at the moment.

He scored again, scored the winner.

And, of course, the team generally is sort of performing as...

as expected, really.

I don't think they're going to have an amazing, you know, well, they can't because they've lost the game already, but they're not going to have such an amazing run as last season.

season but i think they can still potentially compete for the title with alonzo there i admire the barcelona game and i i have to say that lemin yamal just continues to astound me really uh this kid i can't believe some of the stuff he does

it felt like watching that game like the whole pitch was sort of tilting to the right hand side it was just like a sort of like a like underhill you know barnett the old barnett stadium it was like the pitch was tilted and the ball was just naturally gravitating towards him um yamal and rafinha obviously was maybe the style of of the show

in terms of goals.

But I just find Yamar he's one of the few players that I'd say, you know, when you've got these mountains of games

every night, pretty much, it seems like at the moment in football, he's one of the few players that

you go out of your way and say, I want to sit down and watch Yamar play, which is for someone who's 16, 17, it really defies logic to me, really, at the moment, what he's doing.

So, yeah, that was, I was impressed by him.

You make the pitch sound like a pub pool table where you have to put a stack of beer mats under one foot because

all the balls keep rolling down into that corner.

It was amazing.

It was like everyone's instinct was just get the ball to like it was

almost gravitational the way the instincts have passed to him.

He's on player.

Just to clarify, I reckon some listeners will be like, oh, did Bayern Munich beat Leberkusen?

They didn't, they drew, didn't they?

But Leberkusen have lost to Leipzig already this season.

So they have, that's the defeat that they had.

PSV1, sporting one, lovely finish from Jerdy Schouten for PSV, a banger from 25 yards.

Stuttgart drew with Sparta Prague, one apiece as well.

Tonight, obviously, Villa played Bayer, Liverpool played Bologna.

Before we end, part two,

if you didn't know already, of course, we've spent a whole podcast talking about it.

The UEFA Champions League is back, and Football Weekly is supported by TNT Sports.

As football fans, we're obviously hoping this is Champions League.

We'll throw up some vintage moments because then we'll have something interesting to talk about, but also because despite how it might occasionally sound, we all love football and the emotions that it unlocks that we simply don't experience in everyday life.

You don't watch sport, you feel it.

Only sport can do this.

And TNT have let us be totally self-indulgent for this bit.

It's our podcast.

We choose what we want to talk about.

And we've done like favourite Champions League moments before.

So really, beyond that, and I'll start with you, Philippe.

Oh, dear.

I just want a moment when sport has, and you can be you playing, watching, it can be anything.

It's what

but do you know what I think there's something interesting about this is that I think when you work in it you can occasionally just get ground down by the system and forget that you love it and I think that can occasionally create a disconnect with the people that listen to you because they do love it right because we do love it but like there's so much of it that occasionally we're like oh for god's sake yeah hull versus burning the championship i can't do it but you know there's a reason why we fell in love with this so you can pick anything from any sport any moment that you still sort of feels like it was yesterday or it moved you.

Moved me, there being too many to mention.

So I could mention, for example, cycling, the Olympics, the road race, this.

Because I was very emotional.

I was close to tears, if you can believe that, watching men and women racing through Paris.

And the reason why it felt so emotional, it was not just the fact that the racing was absolutely fantastic and it looked beautiful.

It was because these were the streets in which I

grew up as a young man.

And I could recognize the butcher where I used to get my sausages or whatever, the grocer where I would get my fruit, the place where I would go and see my girlfriend.

And suddenly there were all these fabulous cyclists on the paving stones riding breakneck speed when I sometimes struggled to go uphill, you know, to go to Montmartre.

And not only that, but there were people 10 deep on the on the side, cheering, waving all sorts of flags.

I actually feel quite emotional talking about it.

It was an incredible moment where of communion between the athletes and the crowd and the people who were a long, long way away looking at that on their screens.

And I think everybody who's been to Paris and has, and loves Paris, and I felt that very rarely, this kind of union between the place,

the spectators and the actors.

And of course, it was all free.

There were no barriers.

It was just pure joy.

And it was also a huge part of my life, which I could see there, which could remember there.

So I felt very, very emotional.

And I genuinely think that only sport can give you this kind of the moments where your heart stops, basically.

Maybe they should start some sort of annual by grace in France that could conclude in Paris.

Just

the fact it would never happen again makes it even more special, I think.

Do you know what, Barry?

My feeling is we should have ended with Philippe, because that has now put all of us behind the eight ball.

Jonathan, do you want to go to Shulpi Pool Table?

Yeah, do you want to go next or

do you want to go before Barry, Jonathan?

I can go now, yeah.

I mean, Philippe just mentioned

the feeling like your heart was going to stop.

And I think for me, that was Moscow.

Champions League final.

Man United in Russia against Chelsea.

John Terry slipping over in the rain.

Certainly a moment that I genuinely felt like the cartoon, you know, they see the cartoon characters when their heart, you know, when they see...

It comes out of the body.

Yeah, the chest beating, the heart beating out of the chest sort of thing.

That was basically me when John Terry walked towards that penalty spot.

And you kind of know to yourself, this is either going to be one of the greatest nights of your life from a sporting perspective, or it's going to be the worst night.

And you're going to be stuck in Russia thousands, you know, miles away from home.

So yeah, that's the power of sport.

I mean, I can still sort of, it feels like yesterday thinking about it now and it's a bit like Philip says it brings up kind of those emotional feelings hugging random Russian people in the street and things like that so yeah I think that that's the beauty of sport that's why I love it and it's like you said that sometimes there's so much sport that you

it's hard to contextualize moments because there's so many of them to digest but when sport does that to you you you you definitely don't forget it Barry well I mean the sporting highlight of my life and I don't think it'll ever be chopped is is it your header no it's better than my header just standing on hill 16 in Croke Park.

It was over 30 years ago now.

I can't believe that in 1994.

And

watching my hurling team, Offley,

get battered by Limerick in the All-Ireland hurling final, packed Croke Park.

And this game has gone into sort of folklore as the five-minute final when Offley, who were just...

playing really badly somebody flicked a switch everything started to go right and they they scored, I think it was two goals and six points in the final four and a half minutes of that game, just to leave Limerick absolutely shell-shocked, leave their own fans absolutely shell-shocked, and win this final.

And

it was just a magical time.

And the fact that it occurred in the mid-90s during my

I'm going to say my drinking pomp made it all the better.

It was one of the best summers of my life, and it finished brilliantly.

I do know what you're talking about that.

I remember

Beckham v.

Greece, right?

I was playing, right?

And I love playing.

I prefer playing to watching.

And I was going to pick a playing one.

But you were playing against Greece with Beckham.

Yeah.

I was there with Beckham.

Do you remember?

And they brought me sharing him on to change the game.

But I was playing in a University Old Boys game and we just left.

So it was one of those games where you actually knew everyone on the pitch.

And it was great to go back and see everybody.

And we're playing the game.

And then one guy did his ankle really badly.

And we're so on the pitch.

We're waiting for an ambulance.

And we're just all standing around the radio, right?

And, you know, I love radio and I love the power of radio.

And we're just sitting there going, oh, fuck, we haven't qualified for the World Cup.

This is shit.

And then we're, and like, instead of, and we're just all in the center circle around this guy who's in absolute agony.

And I think it's Alan Green.

It might be Mike Ingamba.

In my mind, it's Alan Green, who was a brilliant commentator.

And that just up over the wall moment when we're just all there, just crowd around, getting a bit cold.

We're a bit bored of our mate who's injured, but obviously we have to pretend to care about him.

And then Beckham scores this goal, but we can't see it, but it doesn't matter because we can just totally feel it was a brilliant, brilliant moment.

What about your friend laying in the middle of the circle?

What was his reaction?

He's still there.

I don't know.

No, he was fine.

He hadn't broken anything.

And, you know, and the ambulance took ages and it meant the game didn't end.

But we did go to the Royal Loke afterwards so that was a total delight anyway the ue for champions league is here you can experience all the highs and lows live on tnt sports with over 185 exclusive games stream tnt sports on discovery plus or watch tnt sports channels on ee sky and virgin media subscription required age 18 plus teeth and c's apply we'll be back in a second

Hi pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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Coach, the energy out there felt different.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

In that Carabao Cup game that couldn't be played at Wimbledon because of their pitch and was at St.

James's Park, Newcastle won 1-0.

Fabian Scher scored the penalty.

I don't know if anyone saw the penalty incident.

It was quite funny because a corner came in.

It was one of those sort of Anderton to Sheringham ones, you know, where Fabian Schaer had peeled off and it was rolled to him and he took a touch and Joe Pickett had a swipe and share went down.

And the ref wasn't quite sure to give a penalty and the ball sort of span away and another Newcastle player flicked it past Joe Piggott, who just swiped him down as well.

He was just like, I'm desperate to give away a penalty at this moment.

The ref didn't give it straight away but eventually did.

But it means Newcastle go and host Chelsea in the fourth round.

In the championship, Sunderland beat Derby 2-0.

Joe Bellingham's goal was quite dudy, if that makes any sense.

It was a wonderful strike.

It was reminiscent.

I'm sure Joe Blake's been compared to to his brother a lot of um

but anyway it was a brilliant goal and you're top of the championship barry how long can this last i don't know um i'm not sure i even want him to get promoted because

you know you know what's coming but um

yeah it was a wonderful strike from joe bellingham he really looks like jude as well sorry job if you're listening um

but uh yeah brilliant strike i think it was his first of the season and probably the player of the game was uh romaine mundel who is this 21 year old left winger he's Londoner

was at standard liage last season and he was brought in to replace Jack Clark and people thought Jack Clark would be irreplaceable this kid is doing a more than adequate job for now anyway let's hope it lasts and Wilson Isidore

scored Sunderland second so it wasn't entirely one-sided Nathan Patterson in the Sunderland goal had to make a few saves but Sunderland now a point clear of Burnley with West Brom, another point back.

I don't know, in other championship news, Cardiff got their first win of the season after second air manager was over

your friend

Neil Harris's Milball.

Neil Harris's win milbler.

Make it ball tomorrow.

Yeah, Luton down in 18th place.

They've only have eight points from eight games.

So, I mean, it's very early days, and we know that teams can rocket up the championship in a couple of months, but

they don't seem to be having a great time of it.

The big question is, can teams rocket up League One?

I bloody hope so.

So, Cambridge United won point all season, hosted Rotherham.

No away wins for 693 days.

It was one of the bleakest football matches I've ever seen.

And obviously, I had eyes on the Champions League.

And then, in the 92nd minute, Rotherham just sort of lumped a ball into the box.

Their centre forward fell over, it hit his back and rolled at about one mile an hour underneath our goalkeeper.

It wasn't necessarily the keeper's fault, but it just rolled so slowly in the goal that no one really noticed they'd scored.

Anyway, that means

that Rotherham now have no days since their last away win, and we still have one point, Gary Monks and Barami.

In part of me, Barry does think, you know, the only point we have this season was at home to Blackpool, where we were 4-1 down and and somehow drew 4-4 and there is a little part of me now that's a bit sad that we don't have nought points but

Jesus I mean it's so bleak the whole thing is bleak you know anyway how how far from safety are you already

are you adrift

uh I don't know if we're quite it depends how you define adrift are you on a lilo

200 meters from the shore and the tide is against you we're seven points from safety with a game in hand over late and orient although they do have a best slightly better goal difference than us but yes our form guide d l l l l

is not promising uh so i mean

i don't know like you sort of feel like gary mark i think signed a three-year deal and we probably can't afford to sack a manager who's got a three-year deal but

It's not looking great.

Rob says, there are good days, there are bad days, and there are days when you're winning at halftime and concede five in the second half.

You special, special bastards, Walsall.

This is why we love you.

Yeah, they could have gone top, Walsall.

They were 2-1-up at home to Fleetwood and lost 6-2,

which is great.

Nick Saxon says, why does a red card that's already checked by a VAR get overturned on appeal?

What happens differently in the appeals process?

Surely it's more undermining to the refs to have the decision overturned after the game since two refs have already looked at it.

Yeah, so this is Manchester United have won their appeal on Bruno Fernandes' red card against Spurs.

He will be available for the next three fixtures.

I think we all thought he was harsh, Jonathan.

With your United head on it, it may not have changed the result, but

good to have him back, I suppose.

I mean, it was a ridiculous red card in my eyes, but I don't think it would have affected the game.

Spurs would have won that with 11.

You know, if United had had 11 men, probably 3-0 as well.

So it didn't really have a material impact in the end.

But yeah, it'd be nice to see Bruno Fernandes for the final few games of 10 hugs reign in charge.

How many games do you give him?

Porto and Villa.

Philippe, let's talk about Lassana Diara, former Arsenal player's legal action against FIFA's, quote, draconian rules, could lead to the age of Bosman 2.0.

So tell us the story.

Well, the story starts in 2014 in Russia when Lessana Diara, who has gone already through Chelsea, Arsenal, Real Madrid, then went to NG Makashkala.

is transferred to Locomotive Moscow for quite a lot of money at the time.

I mean, you're talking about 20 million euros, which is, you know, considerable, you know, considerable sum.

And he starts the season well there and then falls out with the coach at the time.

And a kind of tug of war develops between the club, the coach and the player.

And Lesana Djara

basically refuses to train because they basically asked him to lower, they told him, we're going to lower your salary.

And Jara is not too happy about it.

He says, no way, we've got a contract.

And then he starts training.

The club says, saying that he's been injured.

The club says, no, you're not injured.

And you should have gone to our medical staff.

You didn't.

And so on.

So there's a really bad thing happening between the player and the covative Moscow, who finally terminate his contract, but don't just terminate his contract.

They actually sue him.

They ask for him to be banned.

And they sue him because basically the player they bought for 20 million is worth absolutely nothing to them.

So they say.

And FIFA sides with the club.

And Lessen Adiara is suspended and is ordered to pay the 20 million that Lokomotiv Moscow, which is basically the transfer fee from NG.

This goes to CAS, obviously, as it would.

And CAS finds in favor of FIFA.

The only thing they do is that they halve the fine that Lessenadiara has received in compensation to 10.5 million Euros plus interest.

And you think, okay, that's the end of it.

It sounds a bit strange, to be honest, as a decision,

but no, because Diara Feis decides to fight his case this time

at the Court of Justice of the European Union.

And he is represented by Jean-Buy Dupont, who was part of the team of Bossman, you will remember,

20 years before that.

The verdict is going to be given on the 4th of October, so in two days' time.

And the Advocate General of the Court of Justice of the European Union published an opinion back in June in which he really sided with the player.

And we're talking about the advocate general here, saying, yes, that basically the way that the transfer system was working was totally geared towards negating the player's agency, that it was unfair, that it was contrary to the rules of fair competition within the European Union, and so on and so forth.

And the language he used was actually really almost unlegal, if you see, from what I mean.

But it's not unandustered the court doesn't necessarily have to go with the advice or the opinion of its advocate general it can decide well you know what FIFA have shown us that it's true that the system maybe is in breach of certain regulation of the European Union but it's because sport is specific you need to have something specific for sport you know that goes with it but should they find in favor of La Sa Najara and FIF pro the players union which is also a plaintiff it will be hell, Max.

I mean, what are the implications?

Now, the practical implications, the immediate practical implications, to be honest, I've put the question to many learned friends who've all told me we cannot guess.

But what we can tell you is that it's the whole principle of the transfer system

which would have to be rethought.

So that

we would have to move from a system in which FIFA is the clearinghouse for international transfers and basically they do what the heck they want

to a system of collective bargaining which exists in other sports particularly in american sports so fifa would lose basically authority over the transfer system and and fifa is not the only party which uh jarra and fifpro are suing in this they're also suing

because i should have added that very important detail it's not a detail while he was banned

One club came to him and said, we would like to have you on our books.

It was spotting Charlotte Wine, Belgium.

But they said, if we are are held responsible for this compensation that you're supposed to pay for locomotive, uh-uh, uh-uh, we're not interested.

And so the transfer was not done,

which means that Diara spent a whole year not playing football at the peak of his career.

And we're talking about a French international here.

Yeah, he was a good player.

And a very good player.

And so Charlotte Wai is also being sued and the Belgian Federation because Diara is saying it's just not unfair competition.

It's like, basically, you prevented me from doing my job under false pretenses so because of that you know it's the thread that you start pulling and you realize oh my goodness does that mean that the whole transfer system is based on a false false premises so the idea that basically you know it would become like any other job where you just resign and you have to serve your notice or whatever or they could put you on gardening leave right which

they

contracts would be weird right the contracts would have the the player could go to the club and say well you know what i want to keep my quit my employment.

There's a

I've got to let you know like six months in advance or whatever it is.

But that's that.

I'm leaving.

And the club would think, really?

You're doing that?

You can't.

You want a contract and say, well, no, I'm walking away.

That's my job, isn't it?

I mean, anybody can do it.

You can do it.

I can do it.

Well, I can't because I'm not salaried by anybody.

But if I were salaried from anybody, except from a football club, I could do it.

Managers do it.

Members of the executive team at the football club can do it.

The guy, the sports director of Newcastle, could go to his club and say, you know what, I'm off.

Okay, it's going to be six-month gardening leave, whatever, but I'm off.

Why couldn't a player be able to do the same thing?

Well, there are many reasons to say, to explain why players shouldn't be doing the same thing, but it is in breach of European regulations.

And in fact, most labor regulations hit most countries.

So you can imagine the kind of mess and chaos this would

lead to if Lessenadiera was the victor in that case and that's in two days time Jonathan I don't think people

like you've just mentioned there I don't I think it's underestimated how big this ruling is going to be if this does pass in two days time there is the potential that as Philippe said it's going to completely change the face of football forever and in the same way that Bosman the Bosman ruling did 30 years ago um now I've just obviously completed my MBA so I'm pretty I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna name drop that and here we are

I did a sports little module and I had to write about all this and I think there's a four-step protocol isn't there Philippe about is the rule, can it be justified?

Is it legitimate?

Is the rule necessary?

And is it proportionate?

And I think under EU law, basically, they have to sort of pass that.

And so the international transfer certificate is about, can they, is there, is there like a sporting just cause to be able to unilaterally terminate a contract?

I think that's part of what it's about.

If it was to pass, you will essentially have a system where people can just terminate their contract and say, right, like Philippe just mentioned there, I'm off.

And that would have massive implications for pretty much every other league in the world, except the Premier League, probably, because how would you then make revenue aside from broadcasting match day and commercial income?

Surely you would just put in a contract.

You know, we are signing you, Dominic Solanke,

and under the terms of your contract, you have to do three years guarding leave if you want to leave or something that is just says.

And if you want to leave, we will, we will, and we have a minimum, like a release clause.

Surely those things, would it become illegal to have a release clause?

Is that what you're saying?

But that would not be a legal

thing I think it comes down to it Philly you'll obviously you know you're the expert so you'll you'll you'll be able to answer this but from what I understand it comes down to the fact of is the

terminating your contract without just cause it's such a it's such a draconian thing at the moment that no no player wants to do that because if they do as lasigna the arrow found out the consequences sure you know from his point of view they're excessive you know and in his case it seems like they were because he was denied from part of his career for something that was unfair but the point of it is to make it so terrible for you to sort of terminate your contract without without just cause that you can't play and those are the sort of sanctions so if you can terminate your contract without just caught without just cause clubs will just say well you know we'll we'll pick you up and that's fine we'll give you a bit more extra money so it will i think philippe i don't know if you would agree it would be a massive thing for the players it would maybe enrich the players even further but for clubs in terms of the transfer system it could completely throw the whole thing out the window from that point of view and i it would raise the the question in the future of football of how do smaller clubs sustain themselves.

I think that's one step further towards a franchise system, I would imagine, because collective bargaining is what is happening in America.

So you would have a sports model which would be very much linked to that, I think.

And it wouldn't be retroactive, by the way, because otherwise I think it would be quite fun what's going on.

if it could be going on at Chelsea, for example, with all these players they've got on eight-year contracts and who would just turn like Cole Palmer could actually turn to his employers at Chelsea and say, you know what?

I think he's still got seven years to run on this contract or something like that.

Say, no, I'm off, I'm off next season because somebody's offering, Real Madrid is offering four times the amount of money you're going to pay me, or Al Etihad is offering me ten times the money you're paying me.

And he could do it.

Absolutely amazing.

But exactly Cole, because it's not going to be retroactive, but it's you can imagine the whole system going absolutely amok.

Yeah.

What's your release clause, Barry?

I have no idea.

I'm currently sitting here making a hat from yogurt pot.

And that's why you are loved around the world, Barry.

Anyway, look, that'll do for today, everybody.

Thanks so much.

Thank you, Barry.

Thanks.

Thanks, Jonathan.

Thank you, Max.

Cheers, Philippe.

Thank you.

Football Weekly is produced by Silas Gray and Ian Chambers.

Our executive producer is Christian Bennett.

Back tomorrow.

This is the Guardian.