A dream start for Celtic but drama in short supply at the Etihad – Football Weekly Extra podcast

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Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Celtic are second in the biggest, literally, league in the world.

They were meant to beat Sloven Bratislava, but when you've never won an opening game of a Champions League group stage and you score five, then why not be happy about it?

It wasn't a classic night across the board into were impressive at the Etihad in the big game of the night brave on the ball while City didn't quite get going but perhaps a goalless draw with one eye on the weekend for both sides is kind of okay for everyone except those who had to watch it Jamie no longer bino gets gets two for Dortmund and poor Paolo Gazzaniga gifts a win to PSG and then to the Carabao Spurs just a couple of minutes away from wrestling the crisis claxon from Everton but a win to win there's a Premier League preview as Man City play Arsenal who have a Champions League game on a Thursday night that doesn't fit with our schedule at all.

Will, of course, pay tribute to Toto Scalacci, the hero of Italian 90.

You furnished us with some baseball facts and some wedding requests and your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glendenning, welcome.

Hiya.

You rolled your eyes at the wedding requests.

Are you bored of them?

I want to cut them.

It's like I'm some sort of performing bear.

Well, I mean, come on.

We all know that's true.

I'm going to have to start charging for them.

Then we'll see.

Yeah.

It'll dry up to a very slow trickle.

Hello, Archibin Tut.

Barry the Performing Bear is a children's cartoon that sounds like a rival to Bluey, and I would watch it.

I would watch it.

Yeah.

David Squires could animate a little cartoon Baz.

I have featured in a children's book

as an evil balloon seller.

Wow.

Okay.

And what happens?

I mean, how evil are you?

Quite evil.

I'll be honest.

I haven't read the book.

Well, I just know I'm in it as an evil balloon seller.

Like the child catcher from Chitty Chitty Bangbang.

Anyway, Lars Sivadson, hello.

Hello, Max.

I've never been an evil balloon in a child's time.

Anyway, Ryan begins with lesser question, but about 70 minutes in, Bayern had scored more goals in their one game yesterday than all six teams combined today in the later kickoffs.

Celtic turned it around, though.

They beat Slovak and Bratislava 5-1.

Barsa Jim says, I'm in a state of shock.

Jeff says, morning, Max, putting aside your anti-Scottish brackets and anti-Arsenal bias.

Just a two-minute moment on the Football Weekly pod for Celtic.

And the land of opportunity in the new format, the magic of the cup.

The first time Celtic have scored five in a Champions League game.

The last time they scored four was in a 4-3 win over Juve in 2001.

First time, Barry, that they've won their opening game of a group stage.

They've got a kind of favourable-ish fixture list.

And before we get to Man City 0, Internil, this is a sign that this isn't very good.

This was a great moment for Celtic.

Yeah,

particularly because it's the kind of game they should be winning, but could very easily have lost because they have a lot of form

in the Champions League, whether it's in group games or qualifiers.

They've in the past lost to

Shaktar karagandhi from kazakhstan lincoln red imps uh sior kluj have have done for them as well karagandhi were the ones who slaughtered a sheep before the game right i

don't remember that

well could could be sorry

hope he's okay well

i doubt he is if he's slaughtered that's

that's my alan brazil moment isn't it

let's not forget back in 2005 i think it was gordon Gordon Strachan's very first match in charge of Celtic.

They also faced a team from Bratislava, Art Media Bratislava, and lost 5-0.

So

this was,

I would say, a game no Celtic fan was confident of winning.

So they must have been very pleased with this performance.

against a Sloven Bratislava team, which with apologies to our listener and their centre-back, Gurun Kashaya, weren't really up to very much.

But it was a really really good performance from Celtic.

They've got three points on the board already.

They're second in the table and

you know I'd say

11-12 points it almost certainly guaranteed them a spot in the middle tier of this table and they have

games against Bruges at home.

Dynamo Zagreb who got walloped on Tuesday, young boys who aren't very good coming up

as well as more difficult assignments against Dortmund, Atalanta, Leipzig, and Villa.

Celtic being Celtic, they could very well mess it up, but they've got off to a terrific start.

And I suppose that's the interesting thing about this phase, Lars, when we're all sort of learning

about it and about what this could mean or not for Celtic.

Well, I mean, you said you have like

a light-ish or an easy-ish fixture list.

I do feel like the ish is doing some heavy lifting here because like the Dortmund away and Atalanta away and then Leipzig at home is not that's not easy.

But if you look at the sort of clutch of teams they've been drawn with in this new slightly sort of crazy making system, obviously, beating slow on Bratislava at home is an absolute must, but it's important, I think, for them to get that first, get that first win, get a positive experience.

You know,

it is a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason.

There is like an incredible noise and atmosphere and the whole thing behind them at these home games in Europe.

And you could just kind of see that when, I mean, when they come out into the pitch, and you know, it's an incredible thing.

And I think it's important that that then isn't completely punctured by a bad result to Slovan Bratislava.

Like that, that would not have been good.

So actually going out and getting it done is

super positive.

And it's a out of the games they have, it's the one they should definitely win.

But they did so in style.

So well done to them.

I think because I'm always caught up in that particular narrative about Celtic Park, about how it has this amazing atmosphere, I didn't realize how bad their Champions League League group stage results had been when I look back in detail that

before last night, they'd won two of their last 26 group stage games, and one of those was the final one of last season against Fire Nord, which was a dead rubber.

And that's somehow not the vision that I have of Celtic in the Champions League.

I have

maybe, maybe because I'm wrapped up by that whole narrative.

So I was a bit surprised by that.

Just to credit Ana Engels.

Yeah, I wanted to ask about him.

Who put in that fantastic corner for Liam Scales and scored a penalty as well?

So he came from Augsburg this summer and has become Celtics record signing and is enjoying a status that he would never have had at Augsburg even,

where he would have been, I'd say, condemned to mid-table mediocrity if he's and that's if he's shining as well.

So it's a really smart move for him.

I'm sure he's thinking, hang on, I've stepped into one of the best atmospheres in world football, and I'm a leader in this team where he wasn't for Augsburg, where he was coming off the bench mostly last season and playing in a variety of roles as well.

So it's he's got tremendous shooting technique, still a very young player who can be refined.

And yeah,

It's exciting to see someone like that being able to, I think,

step into a role that he might not have reckoned with a year ago.

And I think he's an interesting sort of case in point for

what a lot of observers would agree that

Celtics should be doing in the sense of like how for them to progress.

If you can pick up younger, promising players and

mold them for a year or two or maybe a little bit longer and then possibly sell them on at a big profit.

I mean, that's what most of the sort of successful teams teams from the quote-unquote smaller clubs around Europe do.

And it's a strong pitch they have to younger players around the world who are like, Well, you can be a bit part player on the bench for a mid-table team in Germany or something, but you can also come to Celtic where you're probably going to win stuff.

You're going to play in front of a huge audience.

There's a lot of like media attention, and there is a lot of pressure actually in its own way up there.

So it's a really good like finishing school for players who want to move on to a higher level.

And yeah,

that seems to be a good example of them getting that right.

Goal of the night, Barry, was Kevin Wimmer, wasn't it?

It was an absolutely sensational strike for Bratislava.

Was it?

I just have Kevin Wimmer scores their first ever goal.

No comment on

it.

I don't remember it.

I've gone full cammy.

You were facing the wrong way.

That was the problem.

I know the feeling, Baz.

I know the feeling.

Goal of the night, Archie.

Archie, Kevin Vimmer, who I don't remember doing this for Spurs, but absolutely wonderful.

That's an elite level outside of the left foot curling finish.

Or Stoke, for that matter.

True.

And the thing about it is as well is that it's there's there's that really kind of clean moment that you see on the replay of the balls curvature towards the goal but but also what what struck me is because he scored it at 3-0 he's not sure sure about how he can celebrate.

And there's this kind of smile that he's trying to give to his teammates being like, can you believe that I just did that?

That he's giving off, whilst also being like, oh, but no, I need to kind of show this serious, no, but we're going to get back into the game from here.

So yeah,

I think there's a certain glory,

a hidden glory to scoring beautiful consolation goals.

I think if you were to make like, if you sit down ahead of every like Champions League week and make a bingo card of of like the most absurd things that could happen this week i do think kevin vimmer outside the the boot top corner no backlift goal would it's a pretty strong candidate to be on the bingo card so i am surprised that barry hasn't they took more note of that that was quite the moment i i think my brain has some problem with kevin vimmer because i've no recollection of this goal

I've no recollection of him being at Spurs and I have no recollection of him being at Stoke.

I think if Kevin Wimmer were to walk into this room now, I wouldn't know who he was, even if he was dressed in full Sloven Bratislava kit.

The Kevin Wimmer void.

You know, you just don't see him.

It's like a really bad version of the sixth sense, isn't it?

Where you just don't see Kevin Wimmer.

That is a good one.

Because we all have players that we just sort of, they just kind of can't attach themselves to our brain properly.

They don't seem important enough.

The Kevin Wimmer Void.

I hadn't thought of him until yesterday, until that moment.

And then I was thinking of him because I was looking at him, basically, which is always a good way to remember someone, isn't it?

Let's go to the Etihad.

Man City 0 into 0.

What did you make of this, Barry?

I am one of the people who thought this was quite boring.

And there seems to be a huge post-match debate over whether or not it was boring.

I think the atmosphere was quite flat.

There were obviously no goals.

Let's face it, these are two teams who are going to qualify for the knockout stages.

So there wasn't a huge amount in the way of Jeopardy.

But I suppose it was a bit of a revenge mission for Inter because City beat them in the final a couple of years ago.

I thought it was quite interesting insofar as Inter

defended brilliantly and really kept Erling Haaland on a very tight rein.

More grist for the mill of those of us who,

you know, sort of cheekily, tongue-in-cheek, suggest that he's a big game bottler.

This wasn't a particularly big game, but it was quite exalted.

Opposition for City.

I thought City probably should have won.

Ilke Gondigan had those two brilliant chances at the end, headed, you know, which you'd expect him to score at least one of them.

They were the best chances of the game.

Inter had a few chances.

Marcus Turam,

I don't see a huge amount of him, but anytime time I do see him, I find him, I'm very underwhelmed by him.

He didn't have a great Euros either, as I recall.

Henrik Miketarian, a man I completely forgotten about.

He popped up at one stage with a shot he should have probably done better with.

There's no doubt in my mind both these teams will be in the knockout stages.

This might have been more interesting in a couple of weeks.

But yeah, I am one of the people who found the game quite dull.

Other people

are going down the...

Ooh, it was like a chess match.

It was a very fascinating route.

Not for me, Clive.

The really good thing about the number of players who you're completely forgotten about means that you can keep doing this until you're 90 and it'll decline, won't it?

There'll just be an increasing number of people that you've completely forgotten about.

Does anybody want to lay a counterclaim?

I suppose City not winning is always kind of interesting, but yes, it didn't, it didn't.

It didn't move me, Lars, this football match.

No, I mean, I think it'd be wrong-headed not to give Inter credit for the very excellent way they dealt with City.

Although City had some chances towards the end, maybe Inter tired a little bit.

But they dealt with City in a way that very few teams are able to.

And they deserve credit for that.

But Barry's, I don't disagree with Barry in that the outcome as a spectacle was quite boring.

And it's even, I find slightly boring to talk about.

I was like, oh, yeah,

their deep block was so well organized.

I was like, that's not great.

It's not great content on the way home from the office, is it?

But it's just,

it was an impressive sort of sporting achievement for them, I guess, to go to the Etihad and to make it that difficult for Manchester City.

The list of teams in the world who managed to do that is very short.

The fact that they also dealt with them so well in the Champions League finals suggests that there's nothing fluky about them.

They're just a really well-organized team who and Inzaghi kind of knows how to make it difficult for City.

But the end result was, yeah, I didn't think it was very interesting to watch.

And, yeah, it's and it's a bit of a shame when this is kind of like the marquee game of the clutch of games that we had yesterday.

And it turns out to be

a tactical battle, a chess match, all of these things that is actually not that fun to watch.

I suppose the sample size, Archie, is small of pot A teams playing each other.

Right.

I think it's what, AC, Milan, Liverpool, and this one, unless I'm mistaken.

And neither have been like classics.

And it is obviously, like I say, it's dangerous to read too much into this new format by going, they say all the big teams will play each other.

So then you want there to be fireworks in these games, but obviously it's the first game of eight.

They'll probably get through.

It's not going to be the same than in Mad City play into in the semi-final.

Expectations are higher because of this.

The big teams are going to play each other early as well.

And I think greater expectations often leads to worse football matches.

So there's that.

I think there's...

There's also just the way that Guardiola wants to play football.

I would say in elite football right now, there are probably two main schools of playing in terms of at the very top of it.

You've got Guardiola's I would like control all of the time, and you've got Real Madrid and Carlo Anchilotti being like, you can have the ball and you'll do some things which will be nice, but in the end, you'll run into Thibaut Courtois.

But hey, we'll have a bit more fun.

And I prefer the Anchilotti fun because the other team gets to play a bit and gets to feel at least like they might win and still not win.

But you at least kind of come away thinking, oh, well, that's been a good game to watch at least.

Whereas with Guardiola and City,

it's either they completely destroy you

or it just turns out being attack against defense for the most part.

I think there are

more entertaining games involving Real Madrid than there are with Man City.

And I think that is to do with this ultimate control that Pep always wants.

Do you think, Lars, that there are fewer.

Because if you think about Pep's reign, and I obviously will forget loads of games, but I feel like

more recently, and maybe it's just because he's been there for so long, or City had been more dominant.

But I think about those games against Liverpool when it was Pep and Klopp that were really exciting.

And I think about, I don't know, City Spurs in the Champions League that were just like totally gripping football matches.

And maybe there aren't just quite as many gripping city games now, or if that's just like a complete sort of selective memory, I don't know.

Yeah, so I also have a very sort of subjective experience of this, which is that I quite, I enjoyed,

I quite enjoyed watching City the season before last, and to an extent last season as well.

And that's obviously because I was watching them more than usual because I was working on the book, but it's also because I think adding Alan Holland to that team has made them a little bit less like that.

Like there is, if Alan Holland wasn't there, he'd be playing some kind of False Nine, like some sort of Hispanic player with a low sensor of gravity and perfect technique, you know, because this is what Guardiola mostly likes, and they would be controlling the ball even more.

And they don't, I mean, I do agree with Archie, and it is

what they go for is what Brendan Rodgers famously once described as death by football.

You know, if you have the ball all the time, the other team can't.

It's like a boa constrictor just kind of strangling the game.

But actually,

I find they do that a little bit less the last two seasons.

And in this game, I mean, they actually they have, I think, just 59% possession or something, which is, you know, not super high for City.

And obviously, Archie was on watching duty at another game, so it's not for you to know.

But actually, there were periods of this game where Inter were able to move the ball around a little bit, which is another thing they did impressively compared to a lot of other teams that come up against City.

I do think there's a certain sterility.

to the sort of ideal Guardiola performance, but I just think because of some of the compromises he's had to make, partially because of Erling Holon being there, you see a little bit less of that with City Now than you did a couple of years ago, would be my humble opinion.

I think I'm impressed Archie has invented a new metric, expected expectations, X expectations,

which I really think has legs.

What's the X expectation going into this game?

Oh, Arsenal Man City on Sunday.

Big X expectation there.

I was thinking yesterday of my new metric, which is expected Archie, which is sort of because I'm aware that you gave the new Go show a bit of a short shrift on the pod yesterday, whereas I just thought yesterday was much better because the expect the XA, the expected Archie, was way up.

It went from very low expected Archie to very high expected Archie.

Are you referring to my clothing?

One of the things, which they did constantly in the studio.

That was so funny.

Like, every time they went to you, there would be some sort of reference

to your clothing.

It's like they couldn't cope with it.

I like it.

I'll take that.

If that's your definition of it,

I'm approved.

Give footballers the opportunity for clobber banter and you'll be there forever.

Yeah.

Where did you get that jacket from?

Stupid jacket land.

Yes, thanks.

That'd be a great name for a jacket.

Amazing name for a jacket shop, by the way.

If I ever go into like fashion retail, I will start

a shop that's just called Stupid Jacket Shop.

Fortunately, given that chat, we don't have time to talk about Man City's kit and more Oasis conversations.

So everyone, you know, you can rest easy.

It was really ugly.

I do usually care about football kits.

I almost never have an opinion on it.

But good lord, that was not pleasant on the eye.

But there you are.

There's the view of everyone at Football Weekly.

We'll be back in a second.

Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Let's start this bit in Bruges.

Lovely place for a mini break.

Archie was there to see Jamie Gittens score a brace.

He's lost the bino.

Do we know why, Archie?

It's to do with the brand, Jamie Gittens.

Both names belong to his dad, and

they've talked it over, and they've gone for Jamie Gittens so far this season.

And it's working as well, because

for the second time this season, Dortmund looked to be caught in a bit of an attacking rut.

And as on the opening day of the season, Jamie Gittens came off the bench and scored twice and

rescued them.

I would say he didn't play that big a role in Dortmund reaching the Champions League final last season.

In fact, I think it was under 45 minutes across the knockout stages.

So he's got a tough role to try and break into that attacking lineup of Donnielle Marlon, Julian Brandt, Julian

Duanville, as well as,

as you would expect, a teenage talent that Dortmund are fostering.

Has Adi Amy gone?

Should I know this?

Where's Adi Amy?

No, he's still there.

Addie Amy's there as well.

He's just.

Okay.

Yeah, he's just one that I should have mentioned.

He's your Kevin Wimmer.

He's in the Kevin Wimner Wimer sphere.

Well,

he could fit in the Kevin Wimmer void twice, couldn't he, to be fair?

He's diamond.

But I think you've accidentally made a really good point because the fact that you're not even aware that he's there kind of tells you something about

how Adeyemi's kind of trajectory has gone the last couple of years because he hasn't kicked on.

No, no, exactly that.

Exactly that.

This is, and this is the thing, is the big challenge for Nuri Shaheen, the new coach since

the start of this season, is can he get more consistency out of your Brandts, your Adeyemis, Marlins, Gittens?

The fact that they have Seyrugi Rasi, who signed from Stuttgart in the summer, 28 goals in 28 games in the Bundesliga last season.

Part of the reason that you got to see Stuttgart away at Real Madrid on Tuesday and performing so well.

They definitely look a much better team when they have a natural number nine.

And Serugi Rasi has been described by one local Dortmund journalist as the most complete striker they've had since Robert Lewandowski.

I think it puts him on a little bit too high a plane, but he is

really good.

Just to come back to Gittens, Gittens, he needs to prove himself as a starter.

He got that chance away at Werde Bremen after that performance away at Holmes-Eintracht Frankfurt.

He didn't make the most of it, and Nouri Shaheen has shown that he will get those chances.

It's just he needs to now make the most of them.

On what I saw of this game, I would suggest that the scoreline sort of flattered Dortmund because Club Bruges or Brugger, I'm still not sure how you're supposed to pronounce it.

They had some very good chances.

There was a sort of slightly more aesthetically pleasing goal mouth scramble than the QPR one at the weekend.

Oh, that was good.

They had two shots blocked, one saved, and then Hugo Wettelson smashed the ball off the underside of the bar and it didn't go in.

Andreas Skovolsson tried to beat Koble at his near post when he had three teammates queuing up for a square ball across the face of goal.

So they, you know, they missed some good chances.

Skov Olsen also had a decent shot well saved

by Koble.

So the Dortmund keeper was very busy throughout this game, and I don't think they deserve to lose 3-0.

The three goals were quite late, weren't they?

They all came in the final 20 minutes.

And you're right.

I acted as if this was a comfortable 3-0 win for Dortmund, and it really wasn't.

They are a lower key version of Real Madrid in the way that they are able to give up a lot of opportunities to opponents and somehow still have seemed to get through in the Champions League, at least since the start of last season.

Just another word on Brugger.

The last time they were in the Champions League, 18 months ago, Scott Parker was their coach.

Oh, yes.

The end of an ill-fated 67 days in charge.

I was speaking to some local journalists there about him.

His reputation is not good.

But the guy in charge right now, I found out in my research for the game, two years ago was leading Haverford West to Welsh Premier League survival.

Wow, a service station.

Nikki Hyen.

Already this season, he was, so they won the Belgian Dupola Pro League through the playoff round last year, having had a really bad season.

So he kept the job.

And yet this season, after three games, he was nearly sacked.

Even though they are the Belgian champions

and the richest club in the country, there is a lot of pressure that comes with that job.

It's interesting to see, I think, from the outside, you look and you think, oh, well,

this guy would be safe in his job.

And yet, it's the same in terms of inbuilt Munich, in that, you know, it's different expectations that you're working to.

The fact that Club Rugga have

won the title in seven of the last 10 seasons tells you that.

I was really impressed with 19-year-old right-back Joachim Seis, who actually, when when he went off, and this is his first full season

in the first team, they got problems down that side.

Jamie Gitton scored both his goals from that side.

A performance worth looking out for.

And no doubt he will be shipped on to somewhere within the next two years if he continues performing.

We learned from that that the XX at Bruges is higher than

expected it to be.

Let's go to PSG Girona.

I mean, I feel so terrible for Paolo Gazzaniga, Barry.

I mean,

like, Girona have held on, and then it was just, there are ways to flap as a keeper.

There are ways to make mistakes, but the way the ball just rolled in so slowly and the way that every single one of his teammates put their head in their hands and had to turn away, they couldn't even face him.

Oh, poor guy.

Yeah, it was.

I mean, Nuno Mendez.

It was a sort of speculative cross-come shot to the near post.

Gazzaniga, it should be meat and drink.

He can't not save it and it goes through his hands and then through the big gap in his legs that his hands are covering and uh crawls over the line and it oh gutting for the the former gillingham southampton and spurs and fulham keeper and i as i recall he he tended to have a rick in him when he was southampton

and Spurs keeper.

I don't really remember him at Fulham and I don't see a lot of Gillingham, funnily enough.

But yeah, it was horrible for Girona.

Their first game in Champions League, possibly in Europe.

And they've done so well.

I mean, PSG deserved to win, that's for sure.

But

yeah, and it was really late.

Poor guy.

He must be devastated.

You know those players where...

Whenever you're paying attention to them, they're bad.

And then when you're not paying attention to them, they seem to be really good.

Like last season,

Paolo Gazzaniga was,

to all intents and purposes, really good for Girona.

And I saw he was starting again tonight last night.

I was like, okay, wow.

I wonder what kind of impact he'll have.

And then he goes and pulls out what I would probably say is Massimo Taibbi for the TikTok generation.

That's a bit harsh.

It's not like, like, it's, yeah, but the Taibbi, come on.

It's like, Taibbi's is a different order of, it's a different magnitude like he's about a 2.1 on the taibi

pole or whatever you want to call it but there's something extra humiliating i think about that about the ball just going all the way through you like you're making some sort of tunnel for the ball you're birthing it you're birthing it's

it's so oh i yeah it kind of gives you that having very much had a part-time role for my team in goal, that kind of thing gives me the shivers.

um lars to to prague sparta who've not been in the competition for what since 05 06

um and this is a great win 3-0 over arby salzberg for them yeah impressive abie salzberg uh with their sort of uh glistening array of exciting young talents came came unstuck in prague i mean it's a it's not really the first time an enthusiastic young group of young men have gone to prague and and things have kind of gone gone wrong for them i mean i'm sure this is something that has happened many times.

We've all been there.

It didn't happen in the way I expected here.

And

I don't have like,

I was primarily watching Bologna Shakhtar from the early games, so I don't have a ton of hot takes on this game, just to say that Prague, it's not the first time they've gotten a good result at home.

It seems to be a difficult place to go.

My tough time in Prague was at a there's a nightclub by the Charles Bridge, which proudly states itself as the largest nightclub in middle europe and

such a bold claim

i mean it is but it's pretty big i grant you you know i don't suspect there's a bigger one anywhere else in middle europe but the long island ice t's were strong and i was young is that the sixth floor one

i mean i couldn't tell you i mean it was big there were definitely stairs you know there were you know i was looking for the you know i was looking for the top loader you know i was looking for the top loader room i couldn't find it you know where's the yeah where's the shed seven room?

I'll be fine.

Anyway, well, you mentioned Bologna, then you watched that too, Lars.

So, you know, give us a minute on that.

Yeah, I've kind of set myself up here because I don't have a ton of interesting things.

Maybe I'm just not a very interesting person today.

It just was a nil-nil game between a Bologna team that is heavily reduced from the team that did so well last season, having lost Alexey, having lost California, etc., and having lost their coach, of course, Motto going to Juventus.

And they had more chances than Shakhtar.

They had many more shots.

But it was, again, when you're sort of, when you're watching the early games, you know, sometimes like your body and spirit isn't quite ready for Champions League action yet.

And you do need the game to be quite decent for you to get like really into it for the early games, I find.

And this game really didn't oblige in that sense.

But I think it's the mandatory mention of Shaktar, the fact that they're doing as well as they're doing when the horrible circumstances their country are going through.

It's, I mean, it gets mentioned every time we talk about them playing, but I think it's still true and still worth bringing up.

They've gone to Bologna and put up a really solid fight here.

They didn't create a lot of chances, but they defended well and made it difficult for Bologna.

So, you know, all credit to them getting a point in the Champions League.

Tonight, there are three potentially quite interesting-looking games, Atalanta, Arsenal, Atleti, Arby, Leipzig, Monaco, Barcelona.

They don't fit well with the pod schedule, but we will try and reflect.

We'll try and reflect those games on Monday, along with with a Premier League weekend red star play Benfica final and Leverkusen and breast vs.

Sturm Graatz as well tributes have been paid all over the world actually to Toto Scalacci the former Italy forwards died at the age of just 59 he had colon cancer obviously just incredibly well known from Italian 90 came out of absolutely nowhere there is a brilliant article in the Guardian about his life by Richard Hall which is worth reading because it just talks about his you know his his rise in Italian 90 and what italia 90 was about.

And I think, Barry, you obviously remember Italian 90 and him knocking Ireland out, but the fact that none of us knew who he was.

I mean, we were young, but like you just had no idea who this player was, and then he just absolutely dominated that World Cup.

It's one of those tournaments where

you've seen all these exotic South American and continental players that you wouldn't otherwise be familiar with because their

games from those leagues aren't on television and there's no coverage of them.

Toro Scalacci, I mean, he

only got in the Italian squad on the strength of one good season for Juventus.

I think before that, he'd been playing for Messina in Serie B.

And then

he got on the pitch.

I think he wasn't even expecting to be in the team, or he certainly wasn't expecting to be in the team.

He wasn't even expecting to be in the match day squad, but he got on the pitch and then he scored six goals against six different teams.

I would say there were quite a few glasses raised in Toto's honor in various pubs in Ireland last night because

I reckon 90% of the Irish population aged 40 or over know who Toto Scalacci is because he knocked us, his goal knocked us out of the quarter-final of Italia 90 in a game

I think Ireland should have won.

So everyone in Ireland knows who Toto Scalacci is of a certain age.

And he, after that World Cup, he was actually in a Smithix ad.

Smithix is an Irish

ale.

Oh, really?

And Toto rocked up in a Smithix ad.

It was doing the rounds yesterday.

So, yeah, rest in peace, Toto.

Yeah, Juve said, We immediately fell in love with Toto, with his desire, his story, his passion.

Juve were lucky enough to get excited about him before in that incredible summer of 1990 when the whole of Italy did.

Yeah, our thoughts, of course, with his family and friends.

Toto Scalaccius died at the age of 59.

We'll be back in a sec.

Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Pete says, will you be leading with the big upset in the Carabao Cup as Tottenham managed to actually win a game?

Eshart says Football Weekly started its strongest side midweek.

Why can't Ange?

I go to you, Lars.

I don't know which screen you had this on, if you did, but Spurs were two minutes away from a disaster really at Coventry, who were brilliant.

Rescued with two very late goals from Jed Spence Spence and Brennan Johnson.

They were forced to bring on Madison's son, Kulazewski, who did make a big difference.

I suppose we've spoken about games that Spurs have lost or drawn that they deserve to win.

Here, they won a game they deserve to lose, I thought.

Yeah, I brought up the last 20 minutes of this on a screen, in addition to having the goal show on one and having YCITI enter on a second screen.

So I struggle with three screens, I have to tell you, two I'm very comfortable with.

That's very fair.

When you add a third to the mix, it becomes hard.

But no, I was paying attention to this just because I just felt myself thinking, I absolutely cannot deal with another couple of news cycles of like Constant Tottenham trophy chat.

It's like this is, this will be very...

I don't think the Carabao Cup is an important competition for anyone, really.

Unless you get to the final, in which case it's a fully legitimate tournament that really matters.

But if you go out early, just, yeah, it's a fewer games to use your backup players.

But the more I thought about it,

as much as I don't believe the cups are necessarily a measure of where you're going as a football club and they don't give the club a lot of money that they can reinvest in players and they don't like progress anything.

I do wonder if for Spurs specifically, the Cups are actually quite important now.

Because I I think if if Spurs had won a tournament like five years ago, this wouldn't matter at all.

But because it's been so long and because it's inevitably a talking point, it's there is a risk of this becoming like a hoodoo for the club that they never win anything.

I mean, there's a risk it's probably already happened to me.

That's hypocrisy.

I think at that,

yeah, and I think at that point,

even though, like, from the point of view of someone trying to run the club, clearly getting back into the Champions League is a lot more important than maybe fluking the League Cup.

But I just think for the club's stature and

for everyone's sort of feeling, and probably for the players, this must,

you guys talked on Monday about stuff that must filter into the dressing room.

I'm sure this does.

I think it does actually matter.

So I think that

there's a case to be made that they should take the Carabao Cup very seriously this season and the Europa League, by the way.

Having reached the semifinals, I mean, not personally, having seen Fulham reach the semifinals last season and Fulham having never won a major trophy apart from the Intertoto Cup in 2002,

it is important,

from my perspective, to bring it to Spurs.

The fact that Brendan Johnson looks so shaken after scoring the winning goal and you think what what a joyous moment and yet because he's deleted his Insta account

because of the abuse he's been getting I that that that for me was a bit of a sad moment to see Hung Min Son having to push him towards the away fans but also I think seeing just what a bubble that these players are in that they think that do you think the whole away end has been has been has been messaging him it could feel like that it would feel like that though do you know

And that's the problem.

And that's the problem, in a way, is that there needs to be a greater understanding brought to him in some way

that that's not the case.

And yet,

I think it's partly a reflection of the age we're in, in that,

yeah, that you would think that, but also just how isolated these players are from what I think is the reality of the situation, that you're just caught up in

what's coming onto your phone.

As for Spurs, as well, just generally, I saw that clip of Ange Posta Coglu

getting prickly about

somebody asking him about a quote he said of, I've always won a trophy in my second season.

I just thought it was really weird.

Why,

if you're going to say that and then say, Well, I'm not boasting, like, it's

then what are you saying?

In some sense, I just didn't quite understand it.

And

there's, yeah,

I think he's backed himself into a corner now.

And also, I think like many managers

in English football, once you've drank from the fountain of everybody likes me,

it's a difficult place to be in when the inevitable tables turn.

And

that's not the case.

And I think that it's been a bumpy journey for him.

Yeah, I certainly haven't lived in that fountain.

I don't think.

I would suggest Brandon Johnson just needs to reactivate his Insta account and put a picture of him kicking a rubber ball for a cocker spaniel puppy to chase and bring back to him.

And all will be well.

He'll get nothing but nice responses.

Just on the subject of Brendan Johnson, I was a bit surprised to hear that.

Was he conspicuously bad against Arsenal?

I don't recall him being bad.

I think there is a feeling about his end product.

Okay, right.

And against Arsenal, it's ridiculous, as we said yesterday, because that's a really good back four you're playing.

I mean, it is worth saying, you know, if we look at the Premier League games, you know, do the Premier League preview, we don't need to go back to Spurs.

They play Brentford, and actually, Brentford are set up, Barry, to be a real foe for Tottenham.

The way they played at City, they can soak up pressure.

They can attack on the break.

It's kind of who Tottenham don't want to play right now.

They'll have all the ball.

Yeah, and very, very good at set pieces.

Oh, my God.

Spurs are not good at defending.

It has been mentioned in recent years.

Yeah.

I mean, some interesting fixtures this weekend.

A couple of early season six-pointers.

And then, you know, that Spurs-Brentford one was interesting.

And obviously, Man City Arsenal, the big one on Sunday.

The XX is huge there.

Yeah.

Let's just, before we get to that, just mention Brighton beating Wolves 3-2.

Brilliant.

opening goal by Carlos Paleba, first goal for the club, a 20-year-old Cameroonian, who I said they found another one, but he played 27 times last season.

I don't seem to have noticed so it's more a case of you finding another one

yeah you're right

Brighton play Forest Wolves go to Villa two form sides in Brighton Forest and Wolves go to Villa still without a win in all competitions this season Wolves let's let's do a bit on Man City Arsenal then

it's interesting Lars isn't it since you've got an extra day to prepare for this which feels quite significant I think and no travel in the city we're at home last night Arsenal had to go to bergamote our teta got a lot of criticism for not going for it last season but given their injuries and where the season is at I think it might be quite sensible to not really go for it on Sunday and get away with the point if you can no City Away is not a place to go for it I think this should be this should be obvious now no no but like you know what happened last season was like that is seen as like a moment where city were gettable for whatever reason and Arsenal didn't I I would argue Brentford went for it last weekend and almost got away with it they they were unlucky to lose and they could have been 3-0 up in the first half.

What have you got to say, Lars?

What I have to say is that Arsenal are.

I'm still sort of, I have a bit of residual annoyance from that whole narrative last season because I just thought not losing that game was very important and smart.

And I think going out there to attack City would have kind of played into City's hands.

Yeah, Brentford did very well.

No doubt about it.

But the City still won and

were kind of comfortable.

They created a lot of chances.

Like, I think what Arsenal.

I thought, I hate to say this.

I thought the Angry Arsenal fans had a point about you guys not really giving them enough credit on Monday.

Because I think.

No, no, that's okay.

I think the fact that Arsenal have this in them, that they could go away to Spurs.

They know they're missing Declan Rice.

They know they're missing Martin Odigo.

So they're going to have to field a slightly immobile midfield of Thomas Party and Jorginho.

So they decide, oh, we're just going to sit back because we have a pretty good midfield, but we have a midfield that's not very good at running.

So we're just going to try not to have too much big open spaces in this game.

We're going to compress the space and we're going to trust the fact that we're really well organized and can defend without the ball.

As much as like

Arteta is pegged as this sort of Guardiola disciple because he worked under him, he also is a footballer who spent his prime years playing under David Moyes.

And he clearly, and he's Basque and he's played at Glasgow Rangers.

Like he's experienced some pretty robust footballing cultures.

And it's clear that one of the things that Arteta has taken away from that is that there's some real value to

being able to be solid off the ball and to be able to to not necessarily strangle the opponent and do death by football.

But also, sometimes you have to sit back and have an organized team who can fight and win 50-50s and stay in the right shape.

It's something Arsenal do extraordinary well.

They had the best defensive record in the league last season.

I think that's a strength of theirs.

And I think, again, it can work.

Going to the Attihad and trying to attack can work.

You can also lose 5-0 doing that because you give Alan Holland a lot of space to hit you on the break with.

I think City would much rather that you go there and attack and open open up.

I think that makes it a lot easier for them.

Whereas, you know, from Guardiola, when teams sit back and compress the space and don't make it easy for them to play, he gets really narcissy about it in the post-match press comments and stuff like this.

And I think they'd be much smarter if they go out and try to make it hard for City.

Paz, you mentioned a couple of other six-pointers.

Lester Everton, I feel, is one of those, isn't it?

Lester Everton says Hampton Ips, which both those games could go either way.

I haven't a clue.

I have no idea.

I think it would be quite funny just if Everton keep losing.

Just at what point will Sean Dice start to look or sound as stressed as I imagine he probably is?

You know, when you're down the bottom, when you're in a position like Everton's, every game is difficult.

And even if they go ahead, you know, if they go ahead, if they go 2-0 up, they're still going to be like...

having palpitations.

What lead in what minute the Everton fans go, okay.

That's right.

We're 4-0 up in the 91st minute at Leicester.

This is okay.

So, you know, it's an interesting game.

And

Everton fans travelling to will, you know, they're going to be traumatised

even if Everton go 2-0 up.

Dominic Calvert-Loon with the first half brace.

It's almost worse than it only being 0-0.

So,

yeah, interesting game.

I can't call it.

I don't know.

West Hand Chelsea, Liverpool, Bournemouth is interesting given how well Forrest played.

And, you know, it would be an

for Arnold Slot if they didn't win that game.

Manchester United go to Palace.

And Archie, you're Fulham home to Newcastle.

Would you like a Fulham minute?

Yes, please.

Firstly, Barry,

I want in on your Adama Triore stock.

I've seen a couple of games now of him starting.

I'm in.

Where are the biscuits?

Where are the drinks?

Secondly, that penalty.

It's the final product with Adama Triore.

It's a great game show, isn't it?

Imagine that game show, the final product.

It's funny.

Like, there's the pre-Adamatro phase where I was like, he's quick.

Wow, he can do everything.

And then, and then there's that point where it's like, hang on, hang on.

He's a battle.

He has got a couple of goals.

Yeah, I think he's done more for you than.

I think he's like,

I feel I've said he's finally got a final product.

Yeah.

So

there's that.

There's the fact that

I checked how much a ticket to the game would cost.

It would cost £71.

That's a lot of money.

There is also the

penalty shootout we had this week, which I switched over from for the final 10 minutes of the Champions League.

And I was sitting there half an hour later being like,

oh, you know what?

I do want to win, but I also really want to go to bed.

And actually, a friend of mine, a Preston fan, was at the game and I was expecting, oh, he's going to give me pelters.

And he texted me after and was just like, I just wanted it to end in the

game as well.

So, yeah.

In short, it looks like lower mid-table for us again this season.

A little bit anxious about the runner games.

Newcastle, we don't tend to beat Forest away.

Forest, after they've beaten Liverpool, I'm now like, oh, I fear them.

And then City away, Villa at home.

But then Everton away.

So that's in late October.

Let's see.

We had lots of messages about.

Reading and the takeover from Rob Cooig falling through.

We have got an EFL pod on Tuesday, so we're going to talk talk about that in detail.

A bit of AOB, Max said, mispronouncing Pulisich and mocking baseball.

This anti-American bias is starting to look a bit more sinister, if you ask me.

Yeah, we were talking about the baseball strikes.

Sam said baseball went on strike in 94 during the season because of a salary cap proposed by the owners.

I was 10 or 11, so I can't quite remember all the specifics, but as Mark Langman said, that's one league.

Getting 25 or so to strike together seems incredibly tough.

Simon Jordan on Talksport yesterday was talking about players going strike.

I don't agree with everything Simon Jordan says, not by a long way, but I thought he did make an interesting point, which I hadn't really considered.

He did say only a very small handful of players play, you know, more than 50 games a season.

Most players, like if you're in a Premier League side, you know, say you're a Wolves player.

You play your 38 league games, probably three or four cup games max, and that's kind of it.

So

he suggested players should have it written into their contracts that they only, you know, if you sign for a club that's going to be playing in the Champions League and going to be challenging for cups and titles, you are going to play a lot of games.

So you know what you're signing up for.

So if you've got a problem with that, have it written into your contract that I only play 30 league games a season or I don't play in the FA Cup.

I don't play in the Carabao Cup brackets unless we get to the final.

And that would be a better way of sorting it out.

I've suggested that on the pod before, and I think I was ridiculed by Wilson.

I don't remember.

Well, it was definitely sort of poo-pooed by people who are smarter than that.

Well, I'm ridiculed by Wilson on such a regular basis that I can't possibly remember every individual occasion.

We've all been ridiculed by Wilson at some point.

But I definitely do like this idea.

Well, I think it should be brought up when the players are talking about how there's so many games, and it's almost as if FIFA and the other people only care about money, which is like, huh, that's that's an interesting thing to bring to the table next time their contracts are up for a negotiation.

Because I find that the players are quite keen on money as well, typically.

I like this message from Ben, who either hasn't listened to yesterday's pod or has very little faith in Barry, who asks, Does Barry know where Andy Carroll is?

I mean, I do

the fact that 24 hours ago we were having this exact conversation.

I didn't even, I don't even need to ask if I like the idea that he was just checking in

old bad.

It got announced last night.

It got announced.

It did.

Yeah.

Biavenue,

Monsieur Carroll.

Tom says, Hi, Max Barry, the rest of the Football Weekly squad.

Was hoping we'd be able to get one of Barry's wedding well wishes on the pod.

For my friends, Harry and Kaylin, who are getting married this weekend.

Harry and me are big fans of the pod.

Have been to live shows in Leeds and Manchester, along with a couple of other guests at the wedding.

While Kaylin isn't really that into football, she's very familiar with the sound of the pod from Harry listening to it around the house and often asks, How's Barry doing?

That's nice if Barry is able to wish them both best of luck for the wedding and beyond and also answer how about how is Barry doing I'd really appreciate it cheers tom so that is Harry and Kaylin uh doctor wish Harry and Kaylin all the very best uh for their forthcoming nuptials and a long happy and healthy life afterwards and uh to answer the question barry is

reasonably content with life at the moment.

Great.

Got a couple of days off coming up.

Gonna

have a few pints, a few nice dinners.

and yeah, all is well in Barry World.

So thank you for asking, Caitlin.

Although, if you have any nice friends that you'd like to introduce me to, you know, I am available for selection.

Fred says, I'm Max Barry and Co.

I'm Best Man on Saturday for my dear friend Matt, a long-suffering Spurs fan who's marrying the love of his life, Claire, in Sussex.

Both Matt and I are avid listeners to the pod, sparking the habit of listening together on a three-week camping trip to North Wales over COVID, when Barry's dulcet tones and Nikki's wholesome laugh helped soothe us to sleep as the rain beat down on the tent outside.

In the years since then, we've been living on different continents, but the pod has remained a cornerstone of our friendship.

Matt was also best man at my wedding in June during the Euros, the night before we both shared a bed.

I was listening to the pod as Matt brushed his teeth and he re-entered our hotel room just as Barry was reading out a wedding message for a different couple, cheerily warning them that most unions end in divorce.

While I was full of eager anticipation, expecting to hear one from me and my wife to be next, Matt broke out into a panic, pacing around the room, shouting, Oh god, oh god, I'm a terrible best man.

I can't believe I forgot to email Max.

On Friday night, we'll be sharing a bed again before his wedding.

So, could I please request that Barry wishes Matt and Claire many congratulations and a long and happy union while reminding him of his past mistake?

That is all the best, Fred.

So it was Matt who didn't get in touch,

and now I'll feel even worse because Fred has managed to do so.

Yeah, but Fred is clearly a much better friend than Matt.

I've only been a best man once.

I didn't share a bed with the groom the night before the nuptials, but I'm now wondering, is that a thing that I wasn't aware of?

That you have to have sex with the groom to be a best man for the night before his wedding?

Yes.

No, I don't believe that's a I don't think that's an English tradition.

I shared the bed with my wife.

Well, before I mean she was my wife before we got married, but you get my point.

Yes.

So anyway, yeah, good luck, Matt and Claire.

And, you know, Matt,

keep your powder dry for Claire.

Don't don't,

you know, ravish Fred the night before the wedding and then be too tired the next night when it's up to you to perform.

Oh, well, that's so beautiful.

Thank you for

bringing up that.

From this point on, I will be charging 50 quid a pot for wedding greetings because it's getting out of hand.

No, you're right.

Do you know what I did try?

I think I've said this before, but you know, Cameo, where you can earn like 30 quid quid for saying happy birthday.

Well, my idea was to join Cameo, but set my price at something so ridiculous, like £80,000,

in the hope that like rich billionaires get together for dinner parties.

Some oligarchs.

Yeah, some oligarchs go for dinner.

I wonder who's the most expensive.

Let's get him to do, I said I'd do the whole of Greece for £80,000.

But then, you know, but unfortunately,

the highest you can set your price is $1,000.

And that just wasn't enough for the gag.

That could look like you genuinely would pricing yourself at a thousand dollars so i deleted the app and didn't join but it was a good idea the guy who played jay in the in-betweeners makes an awful lot of money doing cameos i think john robbins the comedian he he is a good sideline that but he he puts a lot of work into it both of them you know they they really do tailor the message oh really it's it's not just a uh you know reading it off a card they they put their heart and soul into it don't max is already starting with new ventures and and you can see there's a fire lighting in his eyes as you're telling him that, Barry.

Anyway, that'll do for today.

Yes, Lars.

No, that will do.

It better be good.

This better be good.

No, no, okay.

I'm not.

I'm backing up then.

Great.

It's probably not good.

Thanks for your time, Lars.

Anytime, Max.

Thanks, Archie.

Thanks, Max.

Thank you, Barry.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Phil Maynard.

This is The Guardian.