Kane marks his 100th cap in style and Bellamy’s Wales impress: Football Weekly

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Speaker 4 Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Speaker 4 Harry Kane gets two on his 100th cap as England win one of those games against a deep-lying defense that can only generate the deepest footballing apathy possible.

Speaker 4 But nevertheless, in his golden boots, Kane reaches a a landmark that very few men's footballers have, and he looks so much sharper in those moments than in the summer.

Speaker 4 Angel Gomez had a whole game to nip around in midfield. Trent was good again, and Noni Medweke looked so happy to make his debut and make a contribution.

Speaker 4 So Lee Carsley's understated, unassuming England looked quite good in another game we can't read too much into.

Speaker 4 And then to a soaking wet Ellis James voice note, we've had to put him in a big bag of rice to dry out after an incredibly rainy trip to Montenegro.

Speaker 4 Paul Watson's here to talk us through that win for San Marino and plenty more football you don't have time to watch. And we'll take a trip to Barry's Billabong to find out about the Soccaroos.

Speaker 4 Very average start to qualification for World Cup 2026. All that, plus your questions.
And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

Speaker 4 On the panel today, Barry Glendenning, welcome. Hello.

Speaker 1 Have I like completely disappeared off the radar? We're not even bothering with them. Is that correct?

Speaker 4 With who? Ireland. Ireland.
Oh, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 4 We are. They just didn't make the intro, Barry.

Speaker 1 But, you know,

Speaker 1 how the mighty have fallen.

Speaker 4 I can put them in the intro if you want.

Speaker 1 No, that's fine.

Speaker 1 I'm quite happy not to

Speaker 1 skip them. It's okay.

Speaker 4 Well, the Greece goals are quite good. We'll get to it.

Speaker 4 Dan Bardell, hello.

Speaker 5 Hello, good morning.

Speaker 4 From the excellent The Sweeper Pod. Paul Watson.
Hello, Paul. Hi, Max.
Dave says, did Paul watch the England game or did the nicheness of Belize versus Zanguila steal his attention?

Speaker 4 You know, I don't know what the answer is, Paul.

Speaker 6 I had both on. I'll be totally honest with you.
I saw that tweet and had a little sneer and said, oh, people think I'm some kind of niche football, you know, obsessed person.

Speaker 6 And I thought, oh, Anguilla is on though. So I had it on because they're all on YouTube that Conquer CAF Games.
So yeah, I did have it on. Right.
1-0 Belize.

Speaker 4 Okay. And

Speaker 4 which screen did you get drawn to? Which was the better game, do you think?

Speaker 6 I actually thought the England game wasn't bad, to be honest. You know, the bar was quite low with my expectations, but I found myself watching more of England than Belize.
So there you go.

Speaker 6 That's something for Carsley to take home. He can put that on his wall for his job application for the permanent role.

Speaker 4 Yeah. I mean, Dan, it's not a game we will ever remember, really.
But for Harry Kane to score those two goals.

Speaker 4 In his 100th game, and like we are guilty of cynicism on occasion, and there are caveats with his, you know, England career, but it's still an incredible achievement for any footballer.

Speaker 5 Yeah, he had to do something. If you're wearing gold

Speaker 5 you need to do something when you've got gold sketches on your feet. And it was probably, I would say, a game that kind of summed up Harry Kane's England career, just excellently efficient.

Speaker 5 His first goal was so well taken in off the crossbar and then gets his second as well before he was taken off to a standing ovation from the Wembley Crowd. But

Speaker 5 I think Harry Kane gets a little bit of disrespect. I'm not saying he was brilliant in the Euros because obviously he wasn't.

Speaker 5 It was clear he was carrying some kind of back injury through that tournament. But I just think Harry Kane is a brilliant, brilliant centre-forward.
And when he's gone,

Speaker 5 where will the goals come from? Where will the next centre-forward be in three, four years' time when he's not there?

Speaker 1 Yes, these are the games where you want Harry Kane to show up. You can have your Carabao Cup finals.
You can have your Champions League finals, your Euro finals.

Speaker 4 It is a friendly, well, not a friendly, a nations league match against Finland at wembley in september when you really want hurry kane to shine and he did like his boots yeah do you not think barry that you know he deserves you know there aren't many footballers right you know billy wright in 59 bobby charlton in 70 bobby moore 73 then shilton and then you have beckham gerard cole lampard and rooney like it's not many players that reach this level and yes he has not turned up in the biggest moments for england but not many englishmen have let's be real No, it is.

Speaker 1 He deserves congratulations for reaching 100 caps, and it clearly meant a lot to him.

Speaker 1 And he scored two good goals.

Speaker 1 But,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 what do you want me to say?

Speaker 1 I think he would rather have scored two goals in any of the finals he's played in.

Speaker 4 I think you're probably right. I suppose it depends how you judge it, Paul.
I mean, but given how many, you know, if we talk about the men's game having a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 Sorry, am I one of these cynics Dan is referring to

Speaker 1 here?

Speaker 1 Because I don't think scoring two goals against Finland at Wembley is a brilliant achievement. You know, it's an achievement, and as I say, he deserves congratulations for reaching 100 caps.

Speaker 1 It's a select club. The sheen is only slightly taken off

Speaker 1 by the membership which Peter Shilton has of that particular club.

Speaker 1 But no, well done, Harry.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I suppose the point I'm thinking, Dan, is if you're you're thinking about the men's game, there are just a lot of young boys want to play a hundred times for England.

Speaker 4 So like it depends how you judge it. So to be one of the few that have managed it deserves, you know, it deserves to be on a pedestal of some height.

Speaker 5 Do you think it's one of those things that as time goes on, it will become like a normal thing for people to hit 100 caps?

Speaker 5 Because I imagine there's a few players in that England, well, who've been in the England squad over the last year now that will hit 100 caps relatively fast.

Speaker 5 You're thinking like Declan Rice, Jude Bellingham, people that have played from a really young age.

Speaker 4 I don't know if they will. I don't know if they will because you have to stay fit for so long.
You have to be the best.

Speaker 4 You know, we're not talking about, you know, there's a conversation about all Harry Kane in two years or four years.

Speaker 4 I mean, you just don't know what 17-year-old centre forward might be brilliant in two years. So

Speaker 4 I don't know. And obviously, more football is being played now than the Billy Wright era, but

Speaker 4 I think it'll still stay relatively elite.

Speaker 5 Look, I'm not going to congratulate him overly for scoring two goals against Finland, as Barry says, of course.

Speaker 5 But I think overall, if you look at longevity, he'd done it in about 2015, he made his England debut. So he's done it in around nine years.

Speaker 5 And I think the impressive thing with Harry Kane is, you know, he wasn't when he was coming through the Spurs Academy and he was going off on all these loans.

Speaker 5 He wasn't someone who everyone was saying, oh, this is the next England centre-forward. He's worked hard to get to where he's got.

Speaker 5 If you think of some of the other players in more recent history that we've just mentioned, Lampard, Gerard, Rooney, probably more Gerrard and Rooney, you know, they were expected to go to the top.

Speaker 5 People would have called that they'd be big players for their club and country.

Speaker 4 I think for Harry kane to go on and be england captain get 100 caps and score all the goals he has it's come from sheer hard work and determination because he wasn't fancied a lot in his youth yeah elsewhere uh paul angel gomez will be great to see him tested against a big opponent i don't mean physically a big opponent i mean like a big country but he does look like he's a midfielder that does a job He does that job for other teams that aren't England, that kind of midfielder.

Speaker 6 Yeah, and he looked very un-English in the way he played, which is a compliment. He's a kind of like,

Speaker 6 I don't like the term conductor. It strikes me as that kind of slightly Ponce way of referring to it, but that is sort of what he is.

Speaker 6 He's got that look about him of a player that can orchestrate and can kind of be a bit of a kind of brain behind what's going on. And I really enjoyed watching him play.

Speaker 6 As you say, you know, can you do it against bigger teams? We don't know.

Speaker 6 But I really

Speaker 6 enjoyed his performance. I thought, you know, know, it's nice to see us with a player like that because it didn't look like a player I've seen a lot of before for England.

Speaker 4 Yeah, and I guess that's like he was actually fancied when he was young, but like his journey is interesting. And the fact that, you know, he didn't like burst onto the scene and make it.

Speaker 4 And some people, brackets me, had to Google him a week ago, you know, does suggest like that is a great sign that Lee Carsey has shown some faith in him.

Speaker 4 Did you were you impressed with anyone else, Barry, in an England shirt, Rico Lewis, Mad Wake, anyone else?

Speaker 1 I thought Trent Alexander Alexander Arnold was outstanding played some wonderful passes uh that you know were cut out by assorted finished defenders uh his weighted pass for noni madowake in the build-up to harry kane second was brilliant i thought rico lewis played very well madowake

Speaker 1 he contributed he came on he contributed and fair play to him he looked very pleased with that uh

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I think Toppy Keskinen deserves

Speaker 1 a mention, the Finnish youngster, 21-year-old winger from Aberdeen, who has a tattoo on his arm of Wayne Rooney sitting by a lake fishing in Full England kit.

Speaker 1 So Toppy obviously had two excellent chances. to set up

Speaker 1 Timu Puki to score in the first half while while it was still in ill-il

Speaker 1 and uh clearly decided no I want to score at Wembley and

Speaker 1 completely messed up two brilliant chances for Finland to take the lead so um tip of the hat to Toppy who I would say was my standout player of the game Dan what's your what's your feeling on Lee Carsley I mean he's

Speaker 4 He's certainly here until November, I think it is. England's World Cup qualification might not start until next September.
So the FA have got loads of time.

Speaker 4 I have been incredibly impressed, given, as we've already stated, these are games you can't read too much into unless he didn't win them.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I think it was quite timely as well. Would you class him as a hashtag Barclays man? Would you say

Speaker 1 Lee Cars is a Barclays man, isn't he?

Speaker 5 So it's the right time for him to be walking the touchline for England or crouching down on the touchline. And every time the camera

Speaker 5 pan to that area of the pitch, it seemed like he was on his knees on the floor watching the game.

Speaker 5 I've been really really impressed with him i think they're the kind of games that we've had in the past and under other managers and england have probably won more than 2-0 but people have kind of been a bit unhappy and a little bit miserable after after them because of the style of football i think england won both those games 2-0 but there was elements of really really nice football and nice patterns of play in there so it i don't know whether that's if that would change if he became the permanent manager but at the moment i think people are quite impressed with with what they've seen i like what he's done with with the team getting trent in at right back for those kind of games feels like something that could have happened a lot, lot earlier in Trent's England career.

Speaker 5 I thought he was brilliant, as Barry said. But I think as auditions go for getting the job full-time, I don't think he could have done much more.

Speaker 4 I suppose the converse argument, Paul, is

Speaker 4 I have seen games like that. Where Southgate was manager, you know, 0-0 at halftime against a bad team struggling to break down a low block.

Speaker 4 Like, it wasn't, it's not sort of, he hasn't changed football. Like, I like it and I feel infused, but it's not a totally different sport I felt I've watched in the last couple of games.

Speaker 6 No, but that is a lot to ask of him, I think, is fair set for it.

Speaker 6 I agree. I mean, this, this is the thing.
England didn't have this problem with Southgate. You know, we did win these games with Southgate.

Speaker 6 That's almost what distinguished Southgate's career from so many other England bosses is we used to draw these games. We used to scrounge 1-0 wins.

Speaker 6 We didn't really under Southgate. It was only when we ran into really serious opposition that Southgate perhaps was left lacking.
So it's really hard to judge this against Southgate.

Speaker 6 I will say this Finland team, you know, it's a team in transition. It's quite a young side.

Speaker 6 They're still finding their feet, with the exception of, you know, the fact they've got Timu Puki at 34 playing, you know, in America now as their main sort of upfront goal threat.

Speaker 6 This was not a team that was likely to pose a huge amount of problems to England. They'd just been bashed by Greece.
So, you know, it's really hard to say, isn't it?

Speaker 6 There's so many things on each hand. But I think it's fair to say, yeah, Carsley couldn't really have done any better with what he's had to play against.

Speaker 6 I just don't think it's a very easy sort of sample to then say, can he go on and deliver victories against the likes of, you know, France and Italy?

Speaker 1 It is quite interesting, actually, because...

Speaker 1 A lot of people who were critical of Southgate for being too defensive, I was one of them. You can already hear the the knives being sharpened.

Speaker 1 And I think Gary Lineker, who was very critical of him during the Euros, has already sort of gone, ha, see, I was right.

Speaker 1 And it's far too early to say that because the quality of opposition England under Carsley have faced is vastly, vastly inferior to the quality of opposition. they faced at the Euros.

Speaker 1 It will be interesting to see. It pains me to say this.
I actually hope Carsley's England go out and thrash some good teams. And

Speaker 1 then,

Speaker 1 then those of us who were sneered at, scoffed at by the likes of Rone and Liu and Rushton will be vindicated for our view that Gareth Southgate was not a good manager.

Speaker 4 Can I just check, Barry?

Speaker 4 Would you prefer vindication? I mean, how far down beating great opposition? If it was England win the World Cup in 2026, beating Brazil 4-0, would you go, well, it is vindication for me?

Speaker 1 So England finally win a trophy under an Irish international.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, that'd be great.

Speaker 1 It's tantamount to Ireland winning the World Cup.

Speaker 4 I presume I'll be sitting near you if and when it happens. I'd like to see if that is your reaction, you know,

Speaker 4 in two years' time. I suppose the interesting thing, isn't it, it's about the ridiculousness of international football, Dan, is that

Speaker 4 if he wins these games, it doesn't mean he'll beat big teams in big tournaments.

Speaker 4 And actually, if we were in Division I of the Nations League and he'd beat France or the Netherlands, it doesn't mean he'll beat big teams in the quarterfinal or the semi-final or the final of a major tournament.

Speaker 4 In fact, it's very hard to analyse whether Lee Carsley will be the right man until he's playing in the semi-final of a World Cup against a big team.

Speaker 4 And by then, it's too late to find out if he's the wrong guy because he's there. And then you're screwed either way.
So basically, international football is a bit silly.

Speaker 5 Yeah, Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 5 I don't think I can answer it any better than the way you've kind of just explained.

Speaker 5 I guess

Speaker 5 whether he gets the job will depend on other people.

Speaker 5 Now, if England can obviously go and get Pep in a year's time, I'm sure they will do that regardless of what Lee Carsley does in these next few games.

Speaker 5 But if they can't, I think Lee Carsley is the logical next step.

Speaker 5 as manager because it's almost a tried and tested formula to an extent with the FA in Garrisargate in that he was the most successful manager for a long, long, long time.

Speaker 5 So they probably think that they're better served going that route than taking a risk on someone. But yeah, I think you summed it up quite nicely in the question.

Speaker 5 To use a computer game analogy, you know, all these different games, they're almost different game modes.

Speaker 5 The Nations League is very different

Speaker 5 to a friendly. The friendly is very different to a World Cup qualifier or actually being in the World Cup.
We just don't know. I just know that he, you know, clean sheet, two wins, nice football.

Speaker 5 He couldn't have done much more.

Speaker 4 You're one in the eye for Carsley when Pep's the Inger manager and he belts out the national anthem.

Speaker 4 That'll make him look silly. Anyway, unless anyone has any further thoughts on England, I'm happy to move on.
You may speak now or forever hold your peace.

Speaker 4 And you have said nothing. So I will move on.
That'll do for part one. Part two, we'll begin with an Ellis James voice note from Montenegro.

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Speaker 4 Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. As so, Wales followed up that goalless draw with Turkey with a 2-1 win in Montenegro, scoring two goals in the first three minutes.

Speaker 4 Here is a wonderful voice note from Ellis James, both on the game and the incredibly wet weather.

Speaker 7 Hello, Max. Ellis here just got back from Montenegro.
Montenegro won Wales two. Bizarrely, bewilderingly, we were 2-0 up after,

Speaker 7 by my reckoning, I think it was 147 seconds. Kiefer Moore scored after 37 seconds.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 Harry Wilson scored an absolute

Speaker 7 screamer after about two and a half minutes, just before two and a half minutes.

Speaker 7 And what was funny was against Turkey, we played so well, I thought, especially in the first half, a lot of attacking variety. we

Speaker 7 put turkey under pressure high up the pitch

Speaker 7 it was it was it was it was really different from what we saw under Rob Page in Craig Bellamy's first game in charge the only thing it was missing was a goal and I saw my friend Haley just before kickoff and we were both saying this we were like you know the one thing he was missing on Friday night against Turkey and Cardiff was a goal and then suddenly two minutes gone and we were 2-0 up.

Speaker 7 I mean, the other thing, if anyone watched it on the telly, you'll know this.

Speaker 7 The conditions were unreal.

Speaker 7 Like, I grew up in West Wales, I have never seen rain like that. It was at points extraordinary.
I was actually, I was actually surprised the game went ahead because it was biblical.

Speaker 7 And yes, I have absolutely destroyed a pair of trainers. There's no coming back for them.
The Welsh supports Craig Bellamy's name

Speaker 1 throughout.

Speaker 7 They seem to have completely bought into him as a manager. He is, I must admit, if you watch the stuff the FAW put on the social media, or if you watch him on

Speaker 7 the interviews he does for S4C and BBC, he is tremendously persuasive. Obviously, it wasn't perfect.
I mean, there were lots of defensive lapses. Montenegro put us under a lot of pressure.

Speaker 7 We certainly didn't control the game for large parts of it. And ultimately, you know,

Speaker 7 I don't really know if you can take much from the defensive lapses because the conditions were so absurd at times.

Speaker 7 I don't know how reflective it was of some of the stuff he's been trying to put into practice. Interestingly, a lot of the players

Speaker 7 they've been interviewed, they've all talked about how much information they've had to take on poll, they've all talked about how many meetings there are, and they've all talked about intensity as the one word.

Speaker 7 Intensity and information are the two words that the Welsh players are using, and they all seem to be enjoying it. So, I don't know.
We're four points from his first two games.

Speaker 7 I must admit, it's very, very early days, but

Speaker 7 I'm quite impressed and

Speaker 7 excited now to see how we do against Turkey and Iceland. But I really, really

Speaker 7 cannot express just how wet it was. I mean, these trainers are absolutely ruined.
Before I got the flight, I went to a beauty spot in my bare feet, Max. I mean,

Speaker 7 I look like I'd had a nervous breakdown.

Speaker 7 Yeah, that's it, really. Montenegro 1, Wales 2.

Speaker 4 Thank you, Ellis. As always, Craig Bellamy with much smarter footwear choice than Ellis.
He said the conditions weren't going to allow a football match. I couldn't even wear trainers here.

Speaker 4 He said, My summer bomber jacket is gone. These are the toughest conditions I've been in.
Nothing about coming here has been easy. You could have had a lot of excuses about this trip.

Speaker 4 The change of venue, the travel here, a bus driver who took his time, the conditions, but sometimes you learn from it.

Speaker 1 I mean, i i guess it's probably a good time it's probably a good thing for the bus driver to take time in that weather but barry it was so wet i mean it was hilariously wet that comment by bellamy about that was a standout clip a bus driver who took his time i'm presuming it was a local bus driver and i'm presuming he got a rocket from Bellamy.

Speaker 1 Don't managers normally sit right up at the front so they're nearest to the driver.

Speaker 1 And I'd imagine that bus driver felt the lash of the Bellamy tongue. But anyway,

Speaker 1 yeah, it was ludicrously wet, almost impossible to read anything into this game.

Speaker 1 And I suppose the worry for Wales fans, traveling, the ones that travel especially, is they're 2-0 up after, you know, inside two minutes.

Speaker 1 And you're thinking, oh, God, this game's going to be abandoned. And those goals won't count.
And we're not going to win. And that must have been the overriding fear.
It was a brilliant win.

Speaker 1 I don't think you can read anything into it beyond the fact that the Wales players showed excellent character and determination and great.

Speaker 1 It's a game that could have gone either way.

Speaker 1 They were 2-0 up.

Speaker 1 Jovitich

Speaker 1 almost pulled one back with a spectacular effort from inside his own half that bounced off the crossbar with Carl Darlow, who made his debut for Wales. I think absolutely stranded in no man's land.

Speaker 1 That would have been an absolute world-class goal.

Speaker 1 Kiefer Mura then somehow managed to put the ball over the bar from two yards out as he slid in or aquaplaned in to get on the end of a square ball. Jovatic had a header that hit Ben Davis's arm.

Speaker 1 I reckon that probably could have been a penalty for Montenegro. Davies was forced into a goal-line clearance

Speaker 1 from

Speaker 1 of the Montenegrins after Carl Darlow double save and Jovovich hit the post for Montenegro. So, no, this was a real white-knuckle ride.
It could have gone either way.

Speaker 1 It went Wales's way, and I'm sure they're absolutely delighted, and so is Bellamy. And what a great start for him.

Speaker 1 But yeah, it was fun watching. I only saw highlights of this, and it was fun watching the highlights of this.

Speaker 4 Are you saying Kiefer Moore should have driven into the skid when when he was sliding in?

Speaker 4 Isn't that what you're meant to do when you're aqua playing? It's counterintuitive. He went the wrong way.

Speaker 1 Well, there was one that I think was, yeah, it was the Montenegro goal, which I forgot to mention. Kamai, he basically had a tap in from about 12 yards out.

Speaker 1 One of the whales full backs, I can't remember who it was, was sliding in to try and stop him. And he basically slid 15 yards along the ground on his arms.

Speaker 1 And then just the only thing that stopped him sliding completely out across the running track and out of the stadium, which didn't have a stand at that end, was the goal net.

Speaker 1 He just ended up tangled in the goal net like a fish,

Speaker 4 Dan?

Speaker 5 That has to be Carl Dahlo making his international debut. He's 33.

Speaker 5 That has to be one of the oldest debuts that there's ever been in international football.

Speaker 6 Surely. Oh, there's much older.
Oh, yeah, much older. Roberto de Mayo.
Here we go, Paul. So Roberto de Mayo of San Marino made his international debut at 40.

Speaker 6 And he had been, he's an Italian and naturalized and made his debut at 40. So, yeah.
And Anguilla had a debutant who I think was 36. So no, in Europe, probably, yeah.

Speaker 6 But like, when you come to the minnows, you can start pretty late.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I couldn't have been expected to know those two things.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 4 It was the wrong panel for you to, it was the wrong panel to bring it up on, if we're honest, Dan, isn't it?

Speaker 1 you'd probably got away with it any other day exactly even even wilson would have struggled oh well there you are yeah no look bellamy's had a great start sorry just just before we move on for wales um

Speaker 1 did you see who the montenegro manager was max oh i didn't is this a the great robert prozinecki oh really

Speaker 1 absolute legend yeah red star legend didn't quite work out from real madrid or barcelona and he eventually

Speaker 1 i'm guessing Harry Redknapp was involved found his way to Portsmouth where he became an absolute frat and heartlege was it the Milan Manderich years Greg could have had something to do with it I'm not sure but I'm not going to bother checking I'm just going to say yes any Pompey fans are welcome to to correct me probably football's biggest smoker isn't he he's known to be like an absolutely prolific smoker throughout his career Pozneski they never stopped smoking I wonder if he has now he's a coach he's just quit quit to be a coach good question not during games probably half-time right yeah i think so well it would have been hard to light a fag during that game

Speaker 4 just matches matches going out all the time like loading it out come on someone like with the lighter the hands over the lighter to just try and make it he he was wearing a very fetching red and yellow baseball hat so um yeah it was good to see him anyway i hadn't given robert prozanecki a second hole for a very long time and so then he rocks up for that game on smoking obviously don't smoke kids, but Emmanuel Petit told me, I've probably told this before, that after they won the World Cup in 98, him, Petit and Bartez, everyone's celebrating, and they just, in what is the most wonderfully French way to celebrate, they just went into a quiet room, the two of them, and just sat on the floor and just lit up a cigarette each and just sat there with their World Cup winners' medals to go.

Speaker 4 And I played a charity game once, and at half-time, I walked in and

Speaker 4 it was in Wales, I think.

Speaker 4 And I walked in and Diddy Hermann had had just having a heat map of just staying in one place for the whole thing as we walked in the shower he was just stood naked in the shower with a cigarette i was like that's a way to that's a way to do half-time isn't it anyway barry to the republic of ireland uh beaten by greece not not an ideal start for hymner halgrimson all i have to say is the greece goals were quite good but if you have any strong thoughts please tell us no i don't ireland are pretty rubbish it's the fourth home game in a row they've lost uh

Speaker 1 Ogbene scored an absolute worldie in the first half that was disallowed

Speaker 1 because he was offside in the build-up and he chested down a through ball from Jason Mulumby, I think. And that was the only thing

Speaker 1 for

Speaker 1 a half-full Lansdowne Road to cheer about.

Speaker 1 Pretty workman-like win from Greece. One of their goals comes from another ball in behind down the middle.

Speaker 4 And hymer halgrimsson has a lot of work to do to whip the boys agreed into shape all right let's go to sanmarino paul this is what the people wanted i think we had more questions about this for monday's pod than england um talk to us their first win in over 20 years their first competitive win in 34 years which was the longest streak without a win in international football history you were there when they beat lichtenstein 1-0 I was.

Speaker 6 And so, yeah, I make no secret of my love for the underdog. I think it's something I talk about a fair bit.

Speaker 6 In fact, I have a whole podcast called The Sweeper, which we go on and on about these kind of nations. And as part of that, we sort of adopted San Marino as our team.

Speaker 6 And so me and Lee, my co-host, were almost in this competition to see who could watch San Marino break this curse, this like 20-year winless curse.

Speaker 6 And what it starts to do to you is it's almost like if you buy the lottery ticket and you have the same numbers each week that you get really scared that the day you don't go and watch San Marino they're going to win and make history however unlikely it seems so this was my third visit to Sarah Valla and it was basically that Lee said yeah I'm definitely going to go watch and play Lichtenstein I think they can win it I was thinking no I don't think they will but I could not take the chance of not going to this one because if I miss it that's it you know that that's 20 years I have to start on the next run right so um so yeah I went to this game thinking there wasn't a huge amount of chance they would win it but if they were going to be anyone it would probably be Liechtenstein, who were on their own winless run of, I think, 38 games at the time.

Speaker 6 It's gone up now, no, 39, so now it's gone up to 41. Yeah, it was everything we wanted it to be.
It was uh, it was a historic evening.

Speaker 6 It's actually been torrential rain throughout the day, so I was, I was worried Samarino wouldn't be able to play their football, to be honest.

Speaker 6 I was, I was worried it would be, it could be enough, uh, but yeah, it was it was like really, really wet. Um, it was very, very sort of scrappy.

Speaker 6 Liechtenstein actually scored a goal that was disallowed with VAR. And that, for a San Marino game, that is basically like, you know, you're in your coffin and you're allowed out.

Speaker 6 Because when San Marino go a goal down, that's basically the end of it. For them to score two goals is unthinkable.
So

Speaker 6 when that was disallowed, you know, it was a fairly even game.

Speaker 6 But it all turned on this moment where Nico Sensoli

Speaker 6 took advantage of sort of defensive laps from Liechtenstein, ahead of back to the keeper, which was underdone. The keeper didn't quite come and get it.

Speaker 6 Nicked in, prodded it home and became a sort of San Marino hero in seconds, this guy, Nico Sensoli, who wasn't actually born when they last won a game. He's 19 years old.
They last won 20 years ago.

Speaker 6 And obviously there's this huge pile on. Everyone goes mental like they've won the World Cup.

Speaker 6 But then you have 30 minutes for this team that have proved definitively over the years they cannot hold onto a lead. They cannot hold onto anything.

Speaker 6 They have 30 minutes to just be on the edge of your seat watching as Sam Marino desperately fend off a team like you know what I was thinking we are the only people ever to be terrified of Liechtenstein attacks you know Liechtenstein are not a very scary team I think they scored one goal through European qualification it was such an absolute belter but they they are not a team full of goals but we were sat there watching them as if they were like Brazil in their peak because every time the ball went to Liechtenstein we were just thinking oh no oh no but they weathered it and um how many minutes went up on the board like what you know seven do you remember seven minutes seven seven minutes and then and that was the what was the noise like when that went up

Speaker 6 it was a huge growing and what's amazing with sanbarino i've mentioned this before they they have a little ultras group but they are all foreigners who come from all different parts of the world mostly italy but this time there were some people in from argentina holland like all over who'd come in and this group the brigata maiuna joya so the the never any joy brigade have like prided themselves on the fact they've never seen sanbarino win so there's this huge like existential moment playing out where they're watching about to see this victory and everyone in that stadium when the seven minute cut has come up just absolute groan and and you know i i could see it happening i could see that goal going in they licked under free kick in the last of those seven minutes and you just saw everyone around there thinking if this goes in there's never it's never going to happen there'll be no goal but um but amazingly yeah they held on and um the perhaps the funniest part of the whole evening was that the announcer who before the game the the pa announcer did this sort of little speech of you know here are your two teams let's let's hope this game is played with the respect that they deserve.

Speaker 6 You know, let's, let's, uh, all the values of UEFA will be reflected. He gave a very long and slightly over-the-top speech about fair play.

Speaker 6 At the final whistle, the announcer just bellowed repeatedly, San Marino Juan, Liechtenstein, Nil, like he was having some sort of seizure. And he did it five or six times.

Speaker 6 And you could hear his voice sort of cracking. And so it was like, yeah, you could see all around us people just sort of slightly losing their minds.

Speaker 6 But it was an amazing moment.

Speaker 6 Like, really, for me, more than anything else, just relief that I don't have to explain to my wife why I desperately have to get to San Marino sort of four or five times a year.

Speaker 4 Yeah. And now, does it feel like, because obviously it's such an amazing high, like what was that evening like?

Speaker 6 Cerevala is not a place you can have a great late night sort of drinking. All the bars closed around us as we sort of went out to try and get some drinks.
There was almost nowhere open.

Speaker 6 You couldn't tell there'd been a game on at all.

Speaker 6 It's a very sleepy quiet tranquil little place um the only people i spoke i spoke to a couple of people who uh were samarinese but didn't know there'd been a game on you know it really isn't that kind of feel yeah i think it meant a lot more to the us nutters from around the world we were the ones who who seemed to but that said actually there are a lot of kids at the game from soccer school who get brought along to every game and it's it's almost started to feel like a punishment for these these kids probably that they go to every samarino game and it was really sweet because as it got to last minutes they were all sort of down by the there's a a big perspex glass that divides the pitch from the, so you can't get down onto it, but they're all against the glass, like banging on the, on the glass, going kind of Sam Marina.

Speaker 6 So they seem much more enthused than usual.

Speaker 6 And there were a couple of mums carrying like six-month-old babies, maybe.

Speaker 6 So I was thinking, you know, these, for these kids, they are, they're going to think Sam Marino wins just come every day, you know, 100% winning record.

Speaker 4 And so what, so who do you follow now?

Speaker 6 Do you follow Lichtenstein or is there another team around the world that, I mean, would it take more explanation to your wife to go, I've got to go to the Seychelles again because they've not won in 50 like what's the next who are the next big underdog yeah the problem is it is Liechtenstein now that with this 41 game record now that they haven't won um so I guess we pile on to Liechtenstein it's just not comparable you know 20 years and this this this kind of lure this lore around uh sanmarino it was all this kind of um it was quite a unique thing really because there are teams with bad records there are teams that often don't win for years, but it's quite a lot of the time because they haven't played many games.

Speaker 6 So, um,

Speaker 6 I feel like San Marino is quite unique. And we're going to have to, me and Lee are going to take a little step back and say, Look, you know, do we want to sign up with Liechtenstein?

Speaker 6 And can we, could we go watch them play San Marino in good conscience and support Liechtenstein? We'll be getting pigs' heads thrown at us, I imagine.

Speaker 5 Is there an element of the San Marino hardcore that because you weren't there throughout the whole 20 years, they almost look at you as a glory hunter, that you were there for that?

Speaker 1 Where were you when we were shit?

Speaker 6 when we when we were more

Speaker 6 no they were really sweet actually the fan club guys i've seen them i was at the seychelles and st kits and nevis games because i thought those were winnable games and each time you come they give you this big beaming sort of smile tap like grab you and i think even the fact the press office thanked us for coming you know i think there's a real sense that people don't quite understand why you're so into this but they they do like that you're there um so no i don't think we were viewed as as total kind of Johnny Cumb lately's, but it's quite a sweet thing, these people from all around the world uniting on this underdog team.

Speaker 6 And yeah,

Speaker 6 I think from now on, the one thing I found really interesting, you know, the Samarino Fanacan guy who is on Twitter, just basically having sort of episodes every time they play.

Speaker 6 You kind of wonder how much of this stuff can be sustained now they have won. You know,

Speaker 6 we're saying, you know, it's a weird thing for an FA because you can't make your thing as an FA your marketing tag that we always lose. But

Speaker 6 it does lose some of its appeal now that they've won.

Speaker 4 On a grander scale, I've had that existential crisis both times England's men have reached a final. Like, I really have gone, obviously, I want us to win, but at the same time,

Speaker 4 I'm not, like there is a little part of me going, well, then what happens? What happens when you win?

Speaker 4 Then you don't, you know, you're not, it's not all these, we're in the years of hurt, and I know the years of hurt, and I quite like this story. What do you do?

Speaker 4 I mean, obviously, it's not something I perhaps will ever have to worry about, but we'll find out. Anyway, it's a lovely story, Paul.
Congratulations to Sam Marino.

Speaker 4 And we'll be back in a second to do a bit more international stuff and any other business.

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Speaker 4 Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Other Nations League stuff.

Speaker 4 Jellybelly says how many more pointless Nation League games would need to be played before Arsenal had no players left. An injury to Odegaard.
Califory also looks to be out.

Speaker 4 The PGMOL giving Spurs an Australian ref for the North London Derby do. Could this week get any worse for Arsenal? It's good to have some conspiracy theories four games into the season.

Speaker 1 I really hope it does get worse for Arsenal and they get thumped on Jesus Arsenal fans on social media yesterday. Unbearable.

Speaker 1 Unbearable.

Speaker 1 Their club was founded 12 years after the first international was played, and yet they see international football as this inconvenient irrelevance that shouldn't be played because Martin Odegaard twisted his ankle in a game.

Speaker 1 Ooh, boo-hoo, the fixture list is too difficult. Martin Odegaard has played five games in three weeks after a six-week summer holiday.
He's hardly overworked.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Max, I am 100% behind you in my support for Spurs in the North London Derby this weekend.

Speaker 4 I would say Arsenal still probably win, and you know, social media. There are some fans who don't, who aren't like fans on social media, but yes, Odegaard did.
And I hope Martin Odegaard's all right.

Speaker 4 He ended himself in Norway's 2-1 win over Austria. Haaland got the winner.
So, yes, he is out. California's out.
Deccan Rice is suspended, of course.

Speaker 4 More on that in the Premier League preview tomorrow.

Speaker 1 Well, is Odegaard definitely out? There is a suggestion he might not be. If it's just a sprained ankle, he could recover.
But,

Speaker 1 yeah, some of the more

Speaker 1 measured, let's say, Arsenal fans were saying, oh, he shouldn't have played for Norway because he took quite a heavy blow to the ankle in Arsenal's last game against Brighton in the Premier League.

Speaker 1 But since that game, he played 90 minutes against Kazakhstan.

Speaker 1 You know, sometimes footballers just sprain their ankles. It's an occupational hazard.

Speaker 1 And calling for a total blanket ban on international football because it might make the difference between you coming second in the league behind Man City or third in the league behind Man City in Liverpool is a bit hysterical, I would argue.

Speaker 5 His international manager seems to find it quite funny as well. Solbachen.
Did you see Solbachen afterwards?

Speaker 5 He seemed to find it quite amusing that he was injured and Arteta would be annoyed and Arsenal would be annoyed in his post-match.

Speaker 4 I didn't see that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he seemed to be quite jovial about the whole thing. Well, sure, he doesn't care.

Speaker 1 And why should he?

Speaker 4 Belgium lost 2-0 to France. Kevin De Bruyne was not happy about it.

Speaker 4 Apparently, he got into his teammates at half-time. When asked about it after the game, he said to the Belgian broadcaster VTM, I cannot repeat that in the media, but it has to be better in every way.

Speaker 4 If the standard we want to reach is the best, but we're no longer good enough to get to that level, then you have to give everything. If you don't even do that, it's over.

Speaker 4 If you stay with six at the back, there's no connection. It's not about transition, but about people who do not perform their tasks.

Speaker 4 I haven't seen this, but I presume he was very, even redder-faced, Kevin De Bruyne, than

Speaker 6 normal uh when he he said all this jim says is it conceivable that brazil might not qualify for the world cup following another defeat they lost to paraguay last night fifth in the qualifying table after eight games top six qualifies seventh into a playoff um uh paul they'll qualify won't they yeah i think i think they will it's a it's a crazy qualification system isn't it they only have to finish in the top six as you say they play 18 matches um i think you know they've only played what something like eight so far so no, it's such a long, drawn-out affair South American qualification.

Speaker 6 I think they'll be fine.

Speaker 5 I would say it's a problem if Sam Moreno have won a game more recently than you do.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that is true.

Speaker 1 That's a problem.

Speaker 1 No, I'm just saying, it does, it's a conversation we often seem to have that, you know, ooh, Brazil might not qualify. They always do.

Speaker 4 Always. There were some other games that may have passed people by, Paul: North Korea, Qatar, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan

Speaker 4 in the AFC World Cup qualifiers.

Speaker 4 Did you get streams of both those ones? What have we missed? I did.

Speaker 6 I mean, if we talk about bad pitches, that North Korea-Qatar match was incredible. What a pitch that was.

Speaker 6 It's played, I think it's played in Lao because North Korea can't play home games at the moment. And the pitch was, yeah, just dreadful.

Speaker 6 And what was funniest about this is that both teams at different points of the game, depending on how well they were getting on, started to sort of indicate they thought the pitch was unplayable.

Speaker 6 So it depended exactly on the balance of the game. Like North Korea went ahead and Qatar were clearly saying, like, this is, this is ridiculous.
Then North Korea player sent off.

Speaker 6 Qatar levelled and suddenly the North Korean players were definitely sort of going in and saying, look, this pitch is dreadful, is dreadful. But yeah, that pitch was appalling.

Speaker 6 The only worst pitch I think I saw in all the games I've watched, which is many over these last few few days, was the St.

Speaker 6 Lucia versus Granada pitch, which was not only just as flooded, but had the bonus that there were some dogs running laps around the pitch.

Speaker 6 So every time the ball flew down the sideline, a dog would go running alongside it, which was a great watch.

Speaker 6 I think the biggest shout I think for this international run, actually, is American Samoa deserve a little shout.

Speaker 6 They were playing in the OFC World Cup qualifiers, which are brutal. You play one match at this level.
So the lowest team played one match. If you lose it, you're gone.

Speaker 6 And American Samoa were playing Samoa in the Big Derby. And Thomas Rongan returned to the American Samoa bench.
He's famous for next goal wins.

Speaker 6 He was the guy that inspired them to that win against Tonga, their sort of first win. And their goalkeeper, their legendary goalkeeper, 43-year-old Nikki Salapu, was in goal against Samoa.

Speaker 6 He's the guy, again, famous perhaps for shipping 31 goals to Australia at that time, Nikki Salapu. I think it genuinely traumatized him.

Speaker 6 Bear in mind, American Samoa had lost 10-mil to Samoa in the Pacific Games only a year ago. They absolutely held them at bay.
Incredible saves going on from Salapu, who got kicked in the face.

Speaker 6 He was bleeding. He was just keeping him out.
They did lose in the end. They lost 2-0

Speaker 6 to Samoa. But Samoa, a really strong team, actually coached by a Brit, Jess Ibrom, who's a fantastic sort of...
pioneering like young coach.

Speaker 6 But then they played a friendly against the Cook Islands and beat them because the Cook Islands were also there playing against Tonga and beat them, which was their first win for American Samoa in nine years.

Speaker 6 So kind of really nice little story. I thought they were going to get thrashed.
The only other story I wanted to flag out was Tonga were playing at this tournament too.

Speaker 6 So in the other qualifier, it's Tonga who beat the Cook Islands and then lost to Samoa very narrowly. Tonga had a player called Mikeli Lomu, who's an American of Tongan descent.

Speaker 6 And he was just going about his normal life in the US. high school football, I think, and then collegiate footballer, but not professional by any means.

Speaker 6 Knew he had Tongan heritage and saw a post on Facebook saying, we want to find great players for Tonga's World Cup squad put his name forward gave up everything sold his pottery studio moved with his wife and kids to Tonga to play in these World Cup qualifiers luckily got into the squad and was there they beat the Cook Islands 2-1 in their first game they then very narrowly an extra time lost to Samoa but amazing story for this guy to have sort of given it all up to go over there and yeah a lot of respect to him for that and you think you had difficulty selling a trip to Samaria's.

Speaker 4 Yeah. You did also make it sound like everybody has a pottery studio, which I also...
Of course you do. Of course you do.

Speaker 6 Pottery Studio.

Speaker 6 So it's cards, pottery studio. So the works, Max.

Speaker 4 That works. We're going to have to sell the wheel.
You know, I'm off to Tonga.

Speaker 4 To Barry's Billabong.

Speaker 4 Terrible start, Barry, for the Socceroos. I know Paul's across this as well, but

Speaker 1 they have no wins from two in games they really should have would have expected to win yeah they lost to bahrain on the gold coast five days ago and then uh in the most recent game uh was a nil-nil draw with indonesia uh who are ranked 133 in the world uh that was played in jakarta in front of about 70 000 people i think uh the aussies had 19 shots 15 corners i'm not sure how they didn't score uh probably their best chance was a shot from distance that hit the foot of the post, then hit the goalkeeper's back.

Speaker 1 He was on the floor and then didn't go in. You know,

Speaker 1 99 times out of 100, that would creep over the line.

Speaker 1 Mitch Duke, who's

Speaker 1 a very Australian name. Yes.

Speaker 1 He sounds a bit like a cricket ball or something.

Speaker 5 Sounds like it should be on Ramsey Street, I suppose.

Speaker 1 And after the game, Grain Arnold, who's the Aussie coach, he more or less threw his players under the Ute. We had chances.
We missed chances again. Look, I can only do so much.

Speaker 1 I can't play the game for them. The thing is,

Speaker 1 the way Asian qualification works,

Speaker 1 it would take some doing for them.

Speaker 1 Even if they mess up this phase of qualification and they have eight games left, they're only three points off atomatic qualification after two games,

Speaker 6 they get another chance and if they mess up that chance they get another chance after that so it's too a bit too early for them to panic i think unless paul uh knows better yeah no i'd agree it's a very forgiving qualification process but i think what's interesting is graham arnold uh the fact he's it's a repeat of the last qualification campaign and i think he had this incredible situation where the qualification was dreadful so many people calling for his head and then the world cup obviously was this amazing success and so it's sort of like, it feels like a bit of deja vu to go back now to another dreadful qualification campaign, I think.

Speaker 6 And I don't know how he's surviving this pressure.

Speaker 6 Maybe Max with his Aussie insight will tell us how he's kept his job this long, but maybe it's just living off that World Cup run, which was pretty sensational, to be fair.

Speaker 4 He sounds like what you really shouldn't be as an international manager, which is someone that just hates international football until the tournament.

Speaker 4 Like most listeners to this pod, you know, it's like, oh, God, an international break.

Speaker 4 That is all right if you're a football fan, but if you're the manager, you should probably focus on them as well as the tournaments.

Speaker 4 Dan, can we ask you quickly about Aston Villa and the Champions League prices? We talked about it last week,

Speaker 4 and

Speaker 4 I don't know what your feelings are

Speaker 4 on what Villa have done with these prices.

Speaker 5 I mean, I will need my payment for this podcast urgently to be able to go

Speaker 5 to the next round of games.

Speaker 5 I think Villa over the last 18 months, obviously

Speaker 5 the progress on the pitch has been astounding. Emory picking them up in 17th, 18 months later, they're about to embark on a Champions League campaign.

Speaker 5 I think off the pitch, they've struggled to keep up with what Emory's doing and they're trying and they're almost trying to behave like a big club off the pitch before they're ready to get there.

Speaker 5 And I think they've hid behind Unai Emery a little bit in the last 18 months with some of the decisions that they've made around ticket pricing, crests, and things like that off the pitch that I won't bore people with.

Speaker 5 But they now seem to be hiding a little bit behind PSR because the difference between charging Villa fans £15, £20

Speaker 5 less isn't going to kill them in PSR terms, but it makes a hell of a lot of a difference to the fans.

Speaker 5 And the families of three, four that go to games, you've already raised the season ticket prices and the general matchdown prices. quite considerably.

Speaker 5 So I would say Villa fans have already done their bit. They had a chance with the Champions League prices to just be a little bit fairer, but it feels like they've just took full advantage.

Speaker 5 And when you look at Liverpool's prices, you look at Newcastle's prices 12 months ago, a club that's in a similar situation as Villa in terms of what they want to be moving forward.

Speaker 5 Villa tickets are almost double what Newcastle's were. And I just think the Villa fans are being fleeced at the moment for every penny that they've got.
And

Speaker 5 I'm not buying the PSR excuse.

Speaker 5 If your Villa's club president, Chris Heck, who has, you know, he's the commercial guy and is the face of this, I have to talk about him because he's the face of the operation.

Speaker 5 If you're so good at your job, come up with a different way to navigate PSR. Don't go in and hit the fans hard again because they've been hit hard enough in the last two to three years.

Speaker 5 I can go in and be club president and raise the ticket prices. There's no skill in that.

Speaker 5 If you're a really slick operator in what you do, I just think there must be other ways that they can exploit because they've been really good at exploiting the kind of loopholes in the on-the-pitch stuff with PSR psr and beating the dune the 30th deadline and being creative in that way i would i would have just asked them to be a little bit more creative with this because a lot of fans aren't going to be able to go to champions league games now a lot of kids aren't going to be able to go to champions league games now especially not all four at those prices can you envisage any sort of protest you know it's so hard isn't it you've not been in the european cup for what since 82 like like like how can you expect fans to go actually i'm not going to watch you play by in munich like it it seems really harsh but but but that's the only way that you can you know stick two fingers up to your club right of course and i'm you know i i've said i am part of the problem because i have paid that money and i'm going to go to the game so i'm speaking to someone who's part of the problem but i'm trying to use my voice to amplify you know the people that don't have social media reach and and stuff like that villa fans that genuinely will not be able to go because of these these prices and there's talks of of protests and holding up red cards before before the games and stuff but genuinely it does feel like there's a little bit of a split on on social media it does seem 50-50 there's a lot of people that will just go with the the psr line that the club's peddling and and just agree with it and like i say i think the club's hiding hiding behind that but there's also a lot of people that are genuinely upset and fillers ticket operations behind the scenes the website and stuff it's not very good i think it must be more difficult to get villa tickets through that website than than oasis tickets in all honesty because the way it works is not very good at all so there's loads and loads of problems with regards to ticketing and infrastructure at Villa at the moment.

Speaker 5 I know you did a pod on people walking through we on the way out of games and stuff like that. Just a lot of problems off the pitch at the moment, which is a shame.

Speaker 4 I should say we didn't do a whole

Speaker 1 lot of the rivers and things.

Speaker 1 I mean

Speaker 5 I had a WhatsApp from Barry inquiring about the conditions in that game. So I knew it had come up.
I knew it had come up.

Speaker 1 But yeah, a whole pod would have been a bit much.

Speaker 4 I mean, actually, probably quite a popular one when you think about it, if we decided to do that as a special one Tuesday, anyway, thank you for that, Dan. Appreciate it.
And that'll do for today.

Speaker 4 Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Barry.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Cheers, Paul.

Speaker 4 Thank you. Thank you, Dan.
Thank you, Max. And Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.
Our executive producer is Phil Maynard. We'll be back tomorrow.

Speaker 1 This is The Guardian.